August 24, 2025 • 33 mins
Principal Mo takes us behind the curtain of educational leadership to reveal the moment everything fell apart—and how it transformed her approach to leading a school. "This job can ruin you mentally, emotionally, physically," she confesses, sharing the raw truth about her 2022 breaking point when overwork led to depression, anxiety, and professional failure.
The conversation dives deep into what authentic leadership really means in education today. Principal Mo reveals how removing her work email from her phone, refusing to send messages after 5 PM, and being vulnerable with her staff about her struggles completely revolutionized her effectiveness as a leader. "When I say vulnerability is a strength," she explains, "that's when I realized I should have been vulnerable and honest all along." Her staff rallied around her once they understood what was happening, offering solutions she hadn't considered.
We explore the critical importance of building a complementary leadership team rather than surrounding yourself with people who think and act like you do. As Principal Mo puts it, "Don't surround yourself with people who are the same as you." Her insights on identifying teachers who lead from their seats and developing their capacity offer practical guidance for any educational leader looking to build a stronger organization.
This episode delivers honest, actionable wisdom about sustainable leadership practices that protect both your effectiveness and your wellbeing. Whether you're a veteran administrator or a teacher considering moving into leadership, Principal Mo's journey from burnout to balance provides a roadmap for leading with authenticity, vulnerability, and strength.
Subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with an educator who needs to hear this message of hope and transformation. The work we do matters too much to let burnout win.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I say the first leadership lesson, that the
biggest one, the one where Ifell flat on my face, is that
don't overwork yourself.
You know, this job can ruin youin a lot of different ways
mentally, emotionally,physically.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
If you're an educator that's passionate, but you're
tired and you're burnt out andyou're wondering what to do next
, this is the show for you.
We're going to learn together,we're going to recharge together
and we're going to growtogether so you can be the best
you and serve your students andyour community to the best of
your ability.
Welcome back to the Teacher'sEd Podcast, the place where the
(00:39):
best and brightest in educationcome to be inspired, to connect,
to learn and to grow.
I'm your host, Edward DeShazer,and on today's episode well,
actually, before that, make sureyou subscribe on Apple Podcasts
or Spotify.
Make sure you hit that littlethumbs up.
If you're on YouTube, give it acomment, subscribe to the
channel All those importantthings that I have to make sure
(01:02):
I do.
Now let's get started.
But today's guest is someonethat I'm excited to bring on,
someone I've got the opportunityto do some work alongside this
summer, doing workshops.
It is your.
What is it?
Your neighborhood friendly,your friendly neighborhood
principal.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Neighborhood friendly principal.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Your neighborhood friendly principal Principal, mo
Ashley Moore, is with us today.
So at I can't even call youashley, don't even feel right,
principal mo, it feels good tohave you on.
Uh, when I found out your nameI was like who's ashley?
I looked around like where's?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
there's not ash, that's mo that's that's normal
at this point.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So I appreciate you, uh, for jumping on.
So just to start, uh, just tell, tell the people that are
tuning in and listening a littlebit about yourself, what you do
, where you're at, just so theyknow who you are and the work
that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
K-A-M-O-G-B-T and I am a principal of a pre-K
through eight school.
I have been at the school forthe last eight years, going into
the ninth year of myprincipalship.
Prior to that, I was anassistant principal for four
years and then, prior to that, Itaught special and general
education through 12th grade,and I hail from the great state
of Maryland.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
All right.
So one of the things that I'velearned spending time around
principal Mo is she is a dynamicleader.
Uh, so I want to just kind ofjump right in and talk
leadership with you, Cause we'llhave principals listing, we'll
have superintendents, we haveteachers.
We're kind of all over theboard with the audience.
Um, but been doing this longenough to know that you know the
(02:48):
titles that we get in theschools really don't matter.
It's about how you serve andhow you connect with the people
that you work with.
So what is you know when youand I've heard you speak, but
what are some of the leadershiplessons that you would share
with someone that has helpedchange the way you lead?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Well, thank you for that compliment.
I appreciate it.
I say the first leadershiplesson that the biggest one, the
one where I fell flat on myface is that don't overwork
yourself.
The one where I fell flat on myface is that don't overwork
yourself.
You know, this job can ruin youin a lot of different ways
mentally, emotionally,physically, like you know, if
(03:34):
you take on too much.
And so when people say delegateand sharing the work, you
should absolutely do that.
So that will be my firstleadership lesson is to not let
the role consume you to thepoint where you have nothing
left, because then at that pointyou're not good for anybody.
You're not good for yourself,your school, your family, your
(03:55):
friends at all.
So that would be my firstlesson.
My second lesson is to surroundyourself with the people that
compliment you most.
Don't surround yourself withpeople who are the same as you.
The reason being is that youneed people to challenge you and
(04:17):
always be willing to challengethe status quo and not just be
yes, people, and also some ofthe greatest leaders, they admit
that they don't know it all andthey admit that they can't do
it all, and how they get thingsdone is they surround themselves
with experts in differentfields and um industries and
areas in order to move the workof a organization or a school.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Um, I was gonna say that's two, yeah, no stop there
for one second Cause I want Iwant people to hear that.
That last one, because it'simportant.
Um, you know, just as we'veworked and worked with
principals and school and justeducational leaders, it's so
often people are worried aboutbringing people in who are
(05:02):
eventually going to take theirjob or people in and you're look
, you feel like you're lookingover the shoulder, where, from
my experience, and if you bringin smart people as a leader, you
become better you.
you look like you're doing yourjob better because you have
really smart, dynamic peoplearound you.
So I would love for you just tokind of you know, I know you
(05:22):
have a leadership team thatyou've built when you were
building your team.
How does someone go about, like?
I guess first like, how doessomeone know what they struggle
with as a leader?
You know, and then how do theygo about finding people to fill
those voids?
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Well, first, I don't know whose quote this is, and
the first quote I think of in mymind is that you're not a
leader until you can teachsomebody else to be a leader,
and then they can leadthemselves.
So the idea that you knowsomebody's going to come and try
to take your job and you'regoing to, like you know, build
their capacity to the pointwhere you're replaceable, that's
(05:59):
the point.
You can't do this forever.
That's number one.
And so it's your job as aleader to build the capacity of
others around you.
Point blank, period.
But building a team is reallyimportant, so much so because,
you know, part of my journey isunique.
I said I was a principal foreight years.
Now, two of those years onlytwo years I had an assistant
(06:20):
principal, so a majority of myprincipalship I've been a solo
admin.
So identifying teachers who wereleading from their seats,
meaning that they were taking onnot just additional tasks but
just like really living andbreathing and walking that
mission in that vision of theschool, and that's what I looked
(06:42):
for in building a leadershipteam.
And so I identified thoseindividuals.
Some I had to hire, but onceagain, it was more so about
focusing on those soft skillsand what their personal mission
was and their alignment withthat, because, at the end of the
day, it's my job to buildcapacity capacity.
(07:04):
So if there's some hard skillsthat they don't have, that's
okay, because there's training,there's coaching, there's
opportunities for people to gainand acquire those skills along
the way.
Another thing that I look forwas just like talent opposite of
mine.
You know, I'm a strong relatorand that could go very well for
most things, but it can also bea huge blind spot.
Go very well for most things,but it can also be a huge blind
(07:28):
spot.
But people who are just betterwith, like you know, systems and
operations and then I wasactually able to learn from them
and then make better systemsand operations for a school.
Also, somebody who could justlook at things more objectively.
It could kind of like take andlook that, do that bird's eye
view, because I'm such avisionary sometimes that I
forget about the little, smalldetails along the way.
(07:49):
That part, and so you got tokeep people that just keep you
on the ground, and so that'swhat my leadership team does,
because I'll be like I had thisidea and they'll be like, oh,
but they keep me grounded andthey're just like okay, that's
great, but what about this, this, this, this and this?
So they help keep me in line,because sometimes being a
visionary is great, but if youcan't execute the vision, then
(08:11):
you know, you're just a dreamer.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, I would say a room full of dreamers ain't
gonna do nothing but dream like.
You need people that can go outand do and and push the, push
the dream and bring the dream tolife.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
You know you said you were looking for teachers that
lead from their seat, a teacherthat's listening.
What are some of the things?
And I know some people are likejust volunteering and like what
are some of the things as youwere finding and empowering
teachers in your school, ifthere's a teacher that's
listening like.
What are some of the things thatstood out to you as like that
person's ready to take on more.
(08:43):
For those teachers that arelooking to you know, get into
administration, get into youknow a district position or get
into leadership in a school,what are some of the
characteristics for you thatstood out?
I know I know you talked aboutsome of the soft skills, but do
you have any specific examplesthat you could give to a teacher
that's listening, that wants toget into leadership?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yes.
So I'll give you an examplethat just happened today and
this is what helped me up fromgetting to this podcast today.
So I had two teachers.
They actually came to me andthey said we reflected on last
year, we saw what happened, wewant to improve in these areas.
They had a plan created already, solutions to bring to the
(09:32):
table.
They identified the issues andthen they had key questions for
me.
And then, you know, they hadkey questions for me and then
how to move forward with thework.
And so then we were able tohave, you know, some impromptu
but very productive conversationabout not just wallowing in the
past of what happened or justharping on what didn't happen.
(09:58):
What did happen.
They were solutions oriented.
They developed a plan toaddress those issues.
So they were able to diagnosethe problem, prescribe the
solutions to the problem andthen be willing to come to the
table, be brave enough, numberone, to come to their leader and
say these are some of theproblems and issues that we
identified and this is how weplan to solve them.
(10:18):
And then, you know, ask forpermission to move forward.
So just taking that initiativeis one big thing, and not just
taking on tasks, but taking oninitiatives where you are
helping bring that mission andthat vision to life of school.
(10:46):
Like you know, um, because it'sreally easy to fall into the
teacher's lounge crowd whereit's, just like you know, people
that complain, but then thepeople who are actually
solutions oriented and that canlive above the phrase, so to
speak, those that's that'sreally truly leading from the
seat, um, it's not falling intothat gossip, gossip and the
rigmarole of, just like you know, not being satisfied.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, I always say I hate complaints.
I love concerns becausecomplaints are just like I just
need to dump this somewhere.
Where concerns are like I needto get this out, but then let's
figure out how to solve it.
So you know, I love hearingthat because I feel the same way
it's like, and from theirperspective, if you can not only
(11:29):
bring the concern but then alsohow it can best be suited, it
makes my job easier.
Because if you bring it to meand I don't know, I'm going to
solve it the way I think itshould be solved, which may not
be the best for a principal orfor a teacher or someone else in
the building, but I'm going todo what I think is best.
Or someone else in the building, but I'm going to do what I
think is best.
(11:49):
And then they come back andlike, well, that actually wasn't
the best.
Well then it's like, well, ifyou knew it was the best, bring
it to the table from the jumpand we can work together and do
that.
So I'm the same way.
It's like I'm looking for peoplethat are problem solvers.
You know, bring, bring me thesolution after you've identified
the problem and let's worktogether to make sure it's the
best solution for everyone,versus here's the problem and I
(12:14):
just want to give you theproblem, then you just leave,
and then you, you know the same.
Those would be the same peoplein teachers honors complaining
when nothing happens.
Well, it's like you can be apart of the solution.
If you have all these concernslike what, what do you think is
a solution?
Let's bring something to thetable.
So now, as a staff, we can, oras a leadership, we can discuss,
we can share, we can.
We have multiple perspectives,which is, you know, always
(12:36):
valuable in schools becausepeople, there's so many
different perspectives from aclassroom, from an office.
You know leadership, there'sdifferent ways you can look at
it and you know, if it's justcoming out of your office, you
may miss a lot of other people'spoint of views, which is
important.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Right, yeah, absolutely Right.
And then if you're the onethat's solving all the problems,
most likely the problems aregetting solved.
That's something I've learnedalong the way.
You can't be the sole problemsolver, because then you become
the parent of the building.
You can't be the sole problemsolver, because then you become
the parent of the building, youbecome the mom, the dad.
You know, as opposed to youknow, somebody that provides
(13:15):
like leadership and guidance.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And what is an emergency for someone is not an
emergency for you.
Right, you know so it's, youknow they.
To them it's like this needs tobe solved now, but to you, you
could be dealing with a parent,you could be dealing with
something else that's morepressing and like that's going
to come before whatever is goingon in your classroom.
So then that's a, you know, achallenge and a struggle for
(13:40):
some people, because everyonethinks their problems are the
most important problems.
But as a school leader, youhave to see things from that.
You know 20,000 foot level andyou can see all the problems and
you have to identify which oneyou can address first.
But if people are bringingthose solutions, it makes it a
lot easier for their problems toget addressed.
(14:02):
And you had said this at in yourworkshop.
You know some of the staff justjust need you to give them a yes
, you know some of the staffjust just need you to give them
a yes, you know.
So, coming up with, you knowwhat type of programming, what
type of clubs, what type ofwhatever it is that you know a
teacher or one of your staffmembers wants to do, put
(14:22):
together the blueprint, puttogether the game plan and bring
it to your principal and say,hey, I have a great idea, this
is how we're going to implementit, this is what it's going to
take, and then, a lot of times,as a school leader, I love stuff
like that because I can just belike run with it and let them
go and take it, and now they'regrowing.
But it's also benefiting theschool as well, and I think that
gets missed a lot when it comesto schools, because, I mean,
(14:46):
people are busy, you know,worrying about what they have to
worry about that at times.
You know they have ideas and atsome schools those ideas just
get shut down pretty quickbecause of how, you know how the
structure of the leadership istoo so for sure what is so going
into me, see where we're at,make sure we're time, we're so
(15:09):
good.
So what when you?
One of the things that when Iheard you speak that I really
appreciated is you were justvery, you know, very real and
authentic.
And I think in educating isprobably true in most industries
, but in education that, I think, is missing for a lot of people
.
But I love that you, you know,really pride yourself on that.
(15:31):
Where did that leadership stylecome from for you, versus doing
what you know?
I don't know about the leaderin front of you or the leader in
front of them, but where didthat leadership style come for
you as a school leader?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
So I, like, I keep saying, I always refer to like
the year 2022.
It's the year that I wanted toquit, it's the year that I fell
flat on my face.
It was like one of the biggestfailures of, like, my career,
and so I think that's where itreally started is that I had to
(16:05):
look at what I was doing and itwasn't working.
What I was doing and it wasn't,it wasn't working.
Um, but then I also realized Iwasn't happy because I was
trying to be and do what peoplewanted me to do, or what I
thought was what people wantedme to do, or how you wanted me
to look or how you wanted me topresent myself, so, um.
(16:26):
So from there, it was just,like you know, I I decided to
show more of myself and more ofmy authenticity in my leadership
, and the shift that it made wasincredible, like from just just
from wearing sneakers alone.
Like you know, not only was Iconnecting with the kids,
(16:47):
because you know you want toconnect with the kids, you know
I was connecting with some staffmembers about different topics,
and even parents, like parents,will you know, it kind of
leveled the playing field alittle bit and you would think,
like sneakers that were really,yes, like it leveled the playing
field and I look like less of apretentious person to approach,
especially when you talk aboutparents that have had negative
(17:09):
experiences with school andschool leaders, like you know,
whether as a student or, youknow, as a parent or whatever
the case may be it made me thatmuch more approachable and I was
able to build even strongerrelationships with some of my
families, and so and I thinkthat's something that my parents
appreciate is that you know I'mvery honest, like I've always
(17:31):
been an honest person, but likebeing like just more authentic
and just being extremely honestis something my parents do
appreciate.
There's actually like feedbackthat I've gotten.
They're like you know, good,better and different.
She's always going to tell usthe truth, and so then that
established that establishes atrusting relationship with my
families.
They like they look at me as aco-parent now.
(17:52):
They're like I'm allowing mychild to go to your school.
This is a co-parentingrelationship, so when they're
with you, your mom or whoever,you're the guardian and I trust
you to be that, and that'ssomething that I don't take
lightly.
But I think that's where itreally changed for me was at
that turning point with just notbeing happy with who I was and
(18:15):
and really making that shift forme to be what I wanted to be
and be happy.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Can you I'm trying to get on your business or have
all these folks in your businessCan you talk a little about
what 20?
What was going on in 2022?
I know you know, hearing yourworkshop, those some challenges
you had with staffing and I'msure there was some personal
things.
You don't have to go into thepersonal personal part.
Um, just can you go a littlemore into what were some of
(18:46):
those challenges?
because I know someone'slistening and they're probably
having similar challenges.
People just need to know thatthere is a light at the end of
the tunnel.
So I just want to.
I don't want someone to missthat opportunity to hear some of
the stuff you were goingthrough.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Right.
So I mean during that time,during the 21-22 school year, I
don't know what when most peoplereturned.
So that was a year that wereturned fully back in person
from, you know, the COVID era.
So we were, you know, out ofschool from 2020 to 2021, 22
school year.
So we did one entire schoolyear completely virtual.
(19:22):
During that time, we hadexpanded the enrollment of the
school and expanded the staffingof the school virtually.
And then, when we returned backinto the building, I didn't, and
I was still a solo admin Ididn't realize how much more
work was involved, with just theincrease of enrollment but then
also kids returning back tobuildings after being away for
(19:45):
so long, and so, and, and thenit turned into me working
nonstopstop.
I mean, when I say non-stop,I'm not, I'm not like joking, I
was, you know, I was staying atwork till like seven, eight,
nine o'clock at night, and thenI would come home and I would
(20:05):
still be on email.
I wasn't present for my family.
I wasn't present for my husband, I was not, and present for my
husband, I was not.
And then, as a result, I wasjust running myself ragged the
entire year.
I wasn't making the bestdecisions, I wasn't utilizing,
like the appropriate people inmy building to move the work.
It was all you know, I hadtaken on all this unnecessary
(20:25):
responsibility in work and then,as a result, things began to
spiral.
You know I was approaching,like you know, having serious
depression, had developed inanxiety.
I started having panic attacksout of nowhere and if you've you
know, if you've gotten to knowme, like you know, I'm pretty
even keel.
(20:46):
Like you know, I'm not likehigh or low.
You know what I'm saying.
So for me to have like theseextreme emotions and feelings
and things going on from thelevel of stress that I was
experiencing, it was just likeit's the.
The source of stress is thisjob and the at the.
At that time, the best solutionwas to quit and so, but as a
result, like all of my schooldata decreased, which has never
(21:08):
happened under my leadership.
That's why I said it was likethe worst year of my school.
Data decreased, which has neverhappened under my leadership.
That's why I said it was likethe worst year of my entire
career.
And you know I could say thatlike it was because of COVID and
things like that, and that'spartially true, and then you
know, hindsight is always 20-20.
But there were things that Icould have done, could have done
um differently, um, in myleadership, and there were some
(21:33):
decisions that I could have, youknow, better made Um, but I
didn't.
And so that that's what happenedas a result, like I was just
losing sight and touch ofeverything.
Like you know, the one thingthat I was putting the most time
in which was school.
That was sucking, and then athome I wasn't present, so it was
just like, well, what am Idoing?
(21:54):
So?
Um, so what I did to dig myselfout of that is that, you know,
I I'm a big advocate for mentalhealth and, you know, for
therapy, and, like you know, Italked to all of my staff
members and anybody I could talkto about therapy, and so I had
stopped going to therapy, so Ihad restarted going to therapy
(22:16):
again, and then from there, wedeveloped like a plan to put in
place where I was taking bettercare of myself.
And then the other thing that Ihad to do which I think was also
another true turning point forme is that I had to admit which
I think was also another trueturning point for me is that I
had to admit all of this infront of my staff.
They had to understand what wasgoing on, where I was coming
(22:37):
from, um, and you know, not notto get any sympathy from them,
but for them to reallyunderstand.
Like you know, this is whereall this is happening.
And so, when I sayvulnerability is a strength, and
that is the at that point,that's when I realized that I
should have been vulnerable andhonest all along.
(22:59):
And then, because at that point, my staff members who were
there, they rallied around me,you know, they made sure that,
like no, I was good, and theywere like, well, I can do this
to help, I could do this to help, I could do these things, we
just figured you got it and youwere okay, we didn't realize it
was getting this bad and um, andI, like I, I think I just
(23:23):
underestimated them in a lot ofways, which wasn't fair to them,
um, so, yeah, I mean that'sthat's what happened, it was, it
was probably the best.
Now, like you know, lookingback on that, I mean you have to
fail to fly, and so that wasthat point of failure that I
experienced, that I never wantto experience again, but I
(23:45):
learned so much from it that ithas completely changed.
Like you know how I lead, youknow how I look at my staff, you
using vulnerability, like youknow, because you know, before
leaders, it's like you know youcouldn't show emotion, you
couldn't, you know, admit thatyou were wrong or that you were
in a bad place.
Like you know, that was justinformation only for you and you
(24:06):
own, because you know it islonely.
So that that's that'sessentially what occurred.
Um, but from there, like youknow, my therapist and I we
developed a plan like to getmyself back on track and to
really evaluate if I needed to,like, if I really needed to not
be in this role anymore.
(24:28):
Um, that took a lot of soulsearching, but, but you know,
and also just talking to, like,my family, like I decided to
stay, and then I talked about,like talk to everybody, about
what that's going to look likefor me going forward, and so
some things were just likeboundaries.
Like you know, I'm not sendingany emails after five o'clock.
I don't expect anybody on mystaff to do so.
(24:50):
I'm only working on Saturdays,I'm only available for
emergencies, but I won't beemailing, I won't be doing
anything on Saturday.
So some of these boundaries arestill boundaries that I stick
to to this day, but that waswhat was missing.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I just didn't have any boundaries and I was just
running myself ragged yep and I,and I think the part that I
want to point out to anyonelistening is you set them, but
then you communicated them withyour staff, and that part is
important because people willset them, but then you don't
communicate them, then peopleare still sending you those
(25:28):
emails, people are still callingyou and texting you at all
times the night, and then if youpeople will continue to do what
of the night?
And then if you people willcontinue to do what you allow
them to do, so if you'reanswering, if they send you an
email at 8 PM and you're likeyou know what, I'm just going to
answer this one quick you arethen telling them that it's okay
to do that and that what Ishared with you about them
(25:48):
doesn't really matter, becauseit's okay for you to still send
it.
Cause'm going to respondanyways, because I don't like to
have that notification on myphone.
One of the things you sharedthat I know I ain't doing, but
I'm not you was that you didn't,you don't, I would I think my
anxiety would be through theroof was the fact that you don't
even have email on your phone.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Nope, I took it off because I was, because I was
that crazy person checking myemail at three in the morning,
then I can't sleep, then I'mtired the next day.
It was a bad, bad cycle.
So it's only been I want to sayit's only been about like eight
or nine months, but I stoppedputting email on my phone in
(26:30):
like October of like Octoberlast year, was able to manage a
building.
I was able to do all the thingsand know who called out and
come up with a coverage.
I was able to do all thosethings without checking my email
on my phone yeah, and I stoppedchecking my email after five so
well, you, yes, lynn, you don'tthink you can do it until you
try it.
So yeah, but I mean it, it's,it's life-changing, it really is
(26:53):
, like you know, and then youjust have to make sure and be
intentional about when you arechecking your email.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But once people know that you're not as accessible in
that way, they don't try tocontact you yeah, and if they do
, they know it's a trueemergency and the thing that
people can do, which I wassharing with someone the other
day and a lot of people don'trealize this is.
You can say there is somethingthat you need your principal to
know or that you need yourteachers to know, type the email
(27:20):
and schedule it to send thenext day.
You don't have to hit sendEmails are so sophisticated now.
You could schedule that email.
It could be 4.30 and you'relike you know what.
I don't want to bother anyoneat the end of the day, let me
schedule this for 8.07.
So when they walk in, they'llget it a few minutes after they
walk in.
Doing little things like that goa long way.
(27:41):
I used to shoot emails asthings got forwarded to me.
I would forward it to thepeople on my team that needed it
.
And then, maybe seven or eightmonths ago, I started to realize
why am I sending this?
Because then they're respondingjust like, hey, I got the email
and I'm like I don't want theresponse.
So what I started doing is Istarted queuing it up for about
10 to 15 minutes after they getto work the next day, so at
(28:03):
least they can get in and getsituated be at their computer.
Then it pops up versus like 6am and it's the first thing they
see when they wake up, whenthey wake up.
So I think that's a littlething for a school leader of how
you can also help your staffset those boundaries of just
scheduling those emails.
So now you know you're nottelling them not to email you,
(28:24):
but you're doing it to them andthey're doing it back and now
there's just a back and forthand everyone's boundaries have
been crossed and stepped over.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Right, and one thing that I think that I didn't
realize, and I don't think mostpeople realize, is that when you
send an email, most likely thatemail comes with something like
some sort of task behind it.
And so what happens is is thatwhen you're emailing a teacher
and you're emailing them fiveand six things, you know, then
that's five or six more thingsthat they had to do than before,
(28:53):
and, and then, most likely, andso that's five or six more
things that they had to do thanbefore, and and then most likely
, and so that's what some of myteachers were doing which is why
I stopped emailing after fiveis that they would see me send
something and they would get onit right away because they
wanted to get it done.
And then I'm perpetuating this,this cycle of, you know, poor
work-life balance, like I'm like, if you choose to work on your
(29:14):
time, that's your choice.
I don't want to be the one thatimposes that on you.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, so yeah, and speaking of getting it done, we
got to wrap up and what I wantto do, um, before we jump off, I
want to do a rapid fire, thisor that.
So nothing, nothing crazy.
I'm gonna take it easy on youthis this time.
Next time you come on, I'mgonna going to make it more
challenging.
First one would you rather havea staff meeting or a student
assembly?
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Student assembly.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Would you rather have a vacation in the city or a
vacation on the beach Beach?
Would you rather have a peprally or would you rather have
peace and quiet?
Pep rally a pep rally, or wouldyou rather have peace and quiet
pep rally?
Would you rather have parentsjust visiting, or parents?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
that are in the classroom, parents in the
classroom temptations or boys tomen boys to men boys to men.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Uh, big year, tupac, big, best era of music all time.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Oh, don't make me choose that.
Oh God, Mo's a.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
DJ too.
For those that don't know, shedidn't tell that, but Mo's a DJ.
That's why I asked the musicquestion, I got two.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
So if I wasn't alive for this time, I'm going to do
one if I were alive, and thenone that I actually experienced
If I wasn't alive.
It that I actually experienced,if I wasn't alive, it was disco
, like the disco era thattransitioned into hip-hop.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I wasn't alive for that, I wasn't around.
The second one, and this issomething that I challenge you
to look up the best music wasreleased between the years of
1996 and 1999.
I'm not debating that becausebest album, best song songs we
still hear play to this day cameout during those years, best
(31:03):
music era, and that and that wasfor pop, hip pop, rock.
It didn't matter what genrecountry shania twain's I Feel
Like a Woman came out duringthat time.
Those are the two best eras tolisten to.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
If you're listening on YouTube, I need you to put a
comment in the chat of the bestsong from 96 to 99.
Your favorite song from 96 to99.
But, Mo, I appreciate you forjoining me.
I appreciate everyone that islistening.
If you have not not hit thelittle thumbs up, subscribe.
If you're on Apple podcasts, ifyou're on Spotify.
(31:39):
Mo, I appreciate you for notquitting in 2022 and still being
here and I appreciate you forthe work that you're doing.
I really really enjoyed being inthe room with you in St Paul
and in Austin just to be able tonot only to learn from you, but
, like I always say, it's justnice being in the room with
people who know the work that wedo matter and understand the
struggles that can be when youend up in these type of
(32:02):
positions.
So I truly, truly thank you foryour work, I thank you for
joining me and I thank everyonefor tuning in to Teacher's Ed
podcast.
Mo, can you do on your way out?
Can you let everyone know wherethey can find you, your
Instagram, youtube, youtube, anyinformation?
And please also make sure youplug all the rules for
engagement so everyone knowswhere they can find you guys all
(32:22):
right.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So I am principal underscore mo on all platforms
and you can also follow therules to engagement on tiktok
and instagram.
The rules of engagement is onTikTok and Instagram.
The Rules to Engagement ispowered by knowledge.
It is a educator-led TV talkshow live, so it features myself
, alexia Pendleton, shivvyBrooks and Real Rap Reynolds or
(32:45):
CJ Reynolds, and so we talk todifferent guests.
We talk about current issues ineducation and we are on YouTube
as the rules to engagementAwesome.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Make sure you check those out Again.
Thank you for joining me.
Appreciate you all for tuningin and, until next time, keep
showing up for your staff, keepshowing up for your students.
Most importantly, keep showingup for yourself.
Teachers at Podcast.
See you soon.
I say the first leadership lesson, that the
biggest one, the one where Ifell flat on my face, is that
don't overwork yourself.
You know, this job can ruin youin a lot of different ways
mentally, emotionally,physically.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
If you're an educator that's passionate, but you're
tired and you're burnt out andyou're wondering what to do next
, this is the show for you.
We're going to learn together,we're going to recharge together
and we're going to growtogether so you can be the best
you and serve your students andyour community to the best of
your ability.
Welcome back to the Teacher'sEd Podcast, the place where the
(00:39):
best and brightest in educationcome to be inspired, to connect,
to learn and to grow.
I'm your host, Edward DeShazer,and on today's episode well,
actually, before that, make sureyou subscribe on Apple Podcasts
or Spotify.
Make sure you hit that littlethumbs up.
If you're on YouTube, give it acomment, subscribe to the
channel All those importantthings that I have to make sure
(01:02):
I do.
Now let's get started.
But today's guest is someonethat I'm excited to bring on,
someone I've got the opportunityto do some work alongside this
summer, doing workshops.
It is your.
What is it?
Your neighborhood friendly,your friendly neighborhood
principal.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Neighborhood friendly principal.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Your neighborhood friendly principal Principal, mo
Ashley Moore, is with us today.
So at I can't even call youashley, don't even feel right,
principal mo, it feels good tohave you on.
Uh, when I found out your nameI was like who's ashley?
I looked around like where's?
Speaker 1 (01:34):
there's not ash, that's mo that's that's normal
at this point.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
So I appreciate you, uh, for jumping on.
So just to start, uh, just tell, tell the people that are
tuning in and listening a littlebit about yourself, what you do
, where you're at, just so theyknow who you are and the work
that you're doing.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
K-A-M-O-G-B-T and I am a principal of a pre-K
through eight school.
I have been at the school forthe last eight years, going into
the ninth year of myprincipalship.
Prior to that, I was anassistant principal for four
years and then, prior to that, Itaught special and general
education through 12th grade,and I hail from the great state
of Maryland.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
All right.
So one of the things that I'velearned spending time around
principal Mo is she is a dynamicleader.
Uh, so I want to just kind ofjump right in and talk
leadership with you, Cause we'llhave principals listing, we'll
have superintendents, we haveteachers.
We're kind of all over theboard with the audience.
Um, but been doing this longenough to know that you know the
(02:48):
titles that we get in theschools really don't matter.
It's about how you serve andhow you connect with the people
that you work with.
So what is you know when youand I've heard you speak, but
what are some of the leadershiplessons that you would share
with someone that has helpedchange the way you lead?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Well, thank you for that compliment.
I appreciate it.
I say the first leadershiplesson that the biggest one, the
one where I fell flat on myface is that don't overwork
yourself.
The one where I fell flat on myface is that don't overwork
yourself.
You know, this job can ruin youin a lot of different ways
mentally, emotionally,physically, like you know, if
(03:34):
you take on too much.
And so when people say delegateand sharing the work, you
should absolutely do that.
So that will be my firstleadership lesson is to not let
the role consume you to thepoint where you have nothing
left, because then at that pointyou're not good for anybody.
You're not good for yourself,your school, your family, your
(03:55):
friends at all.
So that would be my firstlesson.
My second lesson is to surroundyourself with the people that
compliment you most.
Don't surround yourself withpeople who are the same as you.
The reason being is that youneed people to challenge you and
(04:17):
always be willing to challengethe status quo and not just be
yes, people, and also some ofthe greatest leaders, they admit
that they don't know it all andthey admit that they can't do
it all, and how they get thingsdone is they surround themselves
with experts in differentfields and um industries and
areas in order to move the workof a organization or a school.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Um, I was gonna say that's two, yeah, no stop there
for one second Cause I want Iwant people to hear that.
That last one, because it'simportant.
Um, you know, just as we'veworked and worked with
principals and school and justeducational leaders, it's so
often people are worried aboutbringing people in who are
(05:02):
eventually going to take theirjob or people in and you're look
, you feel like you're lookingover the shoulder, where, from
my experience, and if you bringin smart people as a leader, you
become better you.
you look like you're doing yourjob better because you have
really smart, dynamic peoplearound you.
So I would love for you just tokind of you know, I know you
(05:22):
have a leadership team thatyou've built when you were
building your team.
How does someone go about, like?
I guess first like, how doessomeone know what they struggle
with as a leader?
You know, and then how do theygo about finding people to fill
those voids?
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Well, first, I don't know whose quote this is, and
the first quote I think of in mymind is that you're not a
leader until you can teachsomebody else to be a leader,
and then they can leadthemselves.
So the idea that you knowsomebody's going to come and try
to take your job and you'regoing to, like you know, build
their capacity to the pointwhere you're replaceable, that's
(05:59):
the point.
You can't do this forever.
That's number one.
And so it's your job as aleader to build the capacity of
others around you.
Point blank, period.
But building a team is reallyimportant, so much so because,
you know, part of my journey isunique.
I said I was a principal foreight years.
Now, two of those years onlytwo years I had an assistant
(06:20):
principal, so a majority of myprincipalship I've been a solo
admin.
So identifying teachers who wereleading from their seats,
meaning that they were taking onnot just additional tasks but
just like really living andbreathing and walking that
mission in that vision of theschool, and that's what I looked
(06:42):
for in building a leadershipteam.
And so I identified thoseindividuals.
Some I had to hire, but onceagain, it was more so about
focusing on those soft skillsand what their personal mission
was and their alignment withthat, because, at the end of the
day, it's my job to buildcapacity capacity.
(07:04):
So if there's some hard skillsthat they don't have, that's
okay, because there's training,there's coaching, there's
opportunities for people to gainand acquire those skills along
the way.
Another thing that I look forwas just like talent opposite of
mine.
You know, I'm a strong relatorand that could go very well for
most things, but it can also bea huge blind spot.
Go very well for most things,but it can also be a huge blind
(07:28):
spot.
But people who are just betterwith, like you know, systems and
operations and then I wasactually able to learn from them
and then make better systemsand operations for a school.
Also, somebody who could justlook at things more objectively.
It could kind of like take andlook that, do that bird's eye
view, because I'm such avisionary sometimes that I
forget about the little, smalldetails along the way.
(07:49):
That part, and so you got tokeep people that just keep you
on the ground, and so that'swhat my leadership team does,
because I'll be like I had thisidea and they'll be like, oh,
but they keep me grounded andthey're just like okay, that's
great, but what about this, this, this, this and this?
So they help keep me in line,because sometimes being a
visionary is great, but if youcan't execute the vision, then
(08:11):
you know, you're just a dreamer.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Yeah, I would say a room full of dreamers ain't
gonna do nothing but dream like.
You need people that can go outand do and and push the, push
the dream and bring the dream tolife.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
You know you said you were looking for teachers that
lead from their seat, a teacherthat's listening.
What are some of the things?
And I know some people are likejust volunteering and like what
are some of the things as youwere finding and empowering
teachers in your school, ifthere's a teacher that's
listening like.
What are some of the things thatstood out to you as like that
person's ready to take on more.
(08:43):
For those teachers that arelooking to you know, get into
administration, get into youknow a district position or get
into leadership in a school,what are some of the
characteristics for you thatstood out?
I know I know you talked aboutsome of the soft skills, but do
you have any specific examplesthat you could give to a teacher
that's listening, that wants toget into leadership?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yes.
So I'll give you an examplethat just happened today and
this is what helped me up fromgetting to this podcast today.
So I had two teachers.
They actually came to me andthey said we reflected on last
year, we saw what happened, wewant to improve in these areas.
They had a plan created already, solutions to bring to the
(09:32):
table.
They identified the issues andthen they had key questions for
me.
And then, you know, they hadkey questions for me and then
how to move forward with thework.
And so then we were able tohave, you know, some impromptu
but very productive conversationabout not just wallowing in the
past of what happened or justharping on what didn't happen.
(09:58):
What did happen.
They were solutions oriented.
They developed a plan toaddress those issues.
So they were able to diagnosethe problem, prescribe the
solutions to the problem andthen be willing to come to the
table, be brave enough, numberone, to come to their leader and
say these are some of theproblems and issues that we
identified and this is how weplan to solve them.
(10:18):
And then, you know, ask forpermission to move forward.
So just taking that initiativeis one big thing, and not just
taking on tasks, but taking oninitiatives where you are
helping bring that mission andthat vision to life of school.
(10:46):
Like you know, um, because it'sreally easy to fall into the
teacher's lounge crowd whereit's, just like you know, people
that complain, but then thepeople who are actually
solutions oriented and that canlive above the phrase, so to
speak, those that's that'sreally truly leading from the
seat, um, it's not falling intothat gossip, gossip and the
rigmarole of, just like you know, not being satisfied.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, I always say I hate complaints.
I love concerns becausecomplaints are just like I just
need to dump this somewhere.
Where concerns are like I needto get this out, but then let's
figure out how to solve it.
So you know, I love hearingthat because I feel the same way
it's like, and from theirperspective, if you can not only
(11:29):
bring the concern but then alsohow it can best be suited, it
makes my job easier.
Because if you bring it to meand I don't know, I'm going to
solve it the way I think itshould be solved, which may not
be the best for a principal orfor a teacher or someone else in
the building, but I'm going todo what I think is best.
Or someone else in the building, but I'm going to do what I
think is best.
(11:49):
And then they come back andlike, well, that actually wasn't
the best.
Well then it's like, well, ifyou knew it was the best, bring
it to the table from the jumpand we can work together and do
that.
So I'm the same way.
It's like I'm looking for peoplethat are problem solvers.
You know, bring, bring me thesolution after you've identified
the problem and let's worktogether to make sure it's the
best solution for everyone,versus here's the problem and I
(12:14):
just want to give you theproblem, then you just leave,
and then you, you know the same.
Those would be the same peoplein teachers honors complaining
when nothing happens.
Well, it's like you can be apart of the solution.
If you have all these concernslike what, what do you think is
a solution?
Let's bring something to thetable.
So now, as a staff, we can, oras a leadership, we can discuss,
we can share, we can.
We have multiple perspectives,which is, you know, always
(12:36):
valuable in schools becausepeople, there's so many
different perspectives from aclassroom, from an office.
You know leadership, there'sdifferent ways you can look at
it and you know, if it's justcoming out of your office, you
may miss a lot of other people'spoint of views, which is
important.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Right, yeah, absolutely Right.
And then if you're the onethat's solving all the problems,
most likely the problems aregetting solved.
That's something I've learnedalong the way.
You can't be the sole problemsolver, because then you become
the parent of the building.
You can't be the sole problemsolver, because then you become
the parent of the building, youbecome the mom, the dad.
You know, as opposed to youknow, somebody that provides
(13:15):
like leadership and guidance.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And what is an emergency for someone is not an
emergency for you.
Right, you know so it's, youknow they.
To them it's like this needs tobe solved now, but to you, you
could be dealing with a parent,you could be dealing with
something else that's morepressing and like that's going
to come before whatever is goingon in your classroom.
So then that's a, you know, achallenge and a struggle for
(13:40):
some people, because everyonethinks their problems are the
most important problems.
But as a school leader, youhave to see things from that.
You know 20,000 foot level andyou can see all the problems and
you have to identify which oneyou can address first.
But if people are bringingthose solutions, it makes it a
lot easier for their problems toget addressed.
(14:02):
And you had said this at in yourworkshop.
You know some of the staff justjust need you to give them a yes
, you know some of the staffjust just need you to give them
a yes, you know.
So, coming up with, you knowwhat type of programming, what
type of clubs, what type ofwhatever it is that you know a
teacher or one of your staffmembers wants to do, put
(14:22):
together the blueprint, puttogether the game plan and bring
it to your principal and say,hey, I have a great idea, this
is how we're going to implementit, this is what it's going to
take, and then, a lot of times,as a school leader, I love stuff
like that because I can just belike run with it and let them
go and take it, and now they'regrowing.
But it's also benefiting theschool as well, and I think that
gets missed a lot when it comesto schools, because, I mean,
(14:46):
people are busy, you know,worrying about what they have to
worry about that at times.
You know they have ideas and atsome schools those ideas just
get shut down pretty quickbecause of how, you know how the
structure of the leadership istoo so for sure what is so going
into me, see where we're at,make sure we're time, we're so
(15:09):
good.
So what when you?
One of the things that when Iheard you speak that I really
appreciated is you were justvery, you know, very real and
authentic.
And I think in educating isprobably true in most industries
, but in education that, I think, is missing for a lot of people
.
But I love that you, you know,really pride yourself on that.
(15:31):
Where did that leadership stylecome from for you, versus doing
what you know?
I don't know about the leaderin front of you or the leader in
front of them, but where didthat leadership style come for
you as a school leader?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
So I, like, I keep saying, I always refer to like
the year 2022.
It's the year that I wanted toquit, it's the year that I fell
flat on my face.
It was like one of the biggestfailures of, like, my career,
and so I think that's where itreally started is that I had to
(16:05):
look at what I was doing and itwasn't working.
What I was doing and it wasn't,it wasn't working.
Um, but then I also realized Iwasn't happy because I was
trying to be and do what peoplewanted me to do, or what I
thought was what people wantedme to do, or how you wanted me
to look or how you wanted me topresent myself, so, um.
(16:26):
So from there, it was just,like you know, I I decided to
show more of myself and more ofmy authenticity in my leadership
, and the shift that it made wasincredible, like from just just
from wearing sneakers alone.
Like you know, not only was Iconnecting with the kids,
(16:47):
because you know you want toconnect with the kids, you know
I was connecting with some staffmembers about different topics,
and even parents, like parents,will you know, it kind of
leveled the playing field alittle bit and you would think,
like sneakers that were really,yes, like it leveled the playing
field and I look like less of apretentious person to approach,
especially when you talk aboutparents that have had negative
(17:09):
experiences with school andschool leaders, like you know,
whether as a student or, youknow, as a parent or whatever
the case may be it made me thatmuch more approachable and I was
able to build even strongerrelationships with some of my
families, and so and I thinkthat's something that my parents
appreciate is that you know I'mvery honest, like I've always
(17:31):
been an honest person, but likebeing like just more authentic
and just being extremely honestis something my parents do
appreciate.
There's actually like feedbackthat I've gotten.
They're like you know, good,better and different.
She's always going to tell usthe truth, and so then that
established that establishes atrusting relationship with my
families.
They like they look at me as aco-parent now.
(17:52):
They're like I'm allowing mychild to go to your school.
This is a co-parentingrelationship, so when they're
with you, your mom or whoever,you're the guardian and I trust
you to be that, and that'ssomething that I don't take
lightly.
But I think that's where itreally changed for me was at
that turning point with just notbeing happy with who I was and
(18:15):
and really making that shift forme to be what I wanted to be
and be happy.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Can you I'm trying to get on your business or have
all these folks in your businessCan you talk a little about
what 20?
What was going on in 2022?
I know you know, hearing yourworkshop, those some challenges
you had with staffing and I'msure there was some personal
things.
You don't have to go into thepersonal personal part.
Um, just can you go a littlemore into what were some of
(18:46):
those challenges?
because I know someone'slistening and they're probably
having similar challenges.
People just need to know thatthere is a light at the end of
the tunnel.
So I just want to.
I don't want someone to missthat opportunity to hear some of
the stuff you were goingthrough.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Right.
So I mean during that time,during the 21-22 school year, I
don't know what when most peoplereturned.
So that was a year that wereturned fully back in person
from, you know, the COVID era.
So we were, you know, out ofschool from 2020 to 2021, 22
school year.
So we did one entire schoolyear completely virtual.
(19:22):
During that time, we hadexpanded the enrollment of the
school and expanded the staffingof the school virtually.
And then, when we returned backinto the building, I didn't, and
I was still a solo admin Ididn't realize how much more
work was involved, with just theincrease of enrollment but then
also kids returning back tobuildings after being away for
(19:45):
so long, and so, and, and thenit turned into me working
nonstopstop.
I mean, when I say non-stop,I'm not, I'm not like joking, I
was, you know, I was staying atwork till like seven, eight,
nine o'clock at night, and thenI would come home and I would
(20:05):
still be on email.
I wasn't present for my family.
I wasn't present for my husband, I was not, and present for my
husband, I was not.
And then, as a result, I wasjust running myself ragged the
entire year.
I wasn't making the bestdecisions, I wasn't utilizing,
like the appropriate people inmy building to move the work.
It was all you know, I hadtaken on all this unnecessary
(20:25):
responsibility in work and then,as a result, things began to
spiral.
You know I was approaching,like you know, having serious
depression, had developed inanxiety.
I started having panic attacksout of nowhere and if you've you
know, if you've gotten to knowme, like you know, I'm pretty
even keel.
(20:46):
Like you know, I'm not likehigh or low.
You know what I'm saying.
So for me to have like theseextreme emotions and feelings
and things going on from thelevel of stress that I was
experiencing, it was just likeit's the.
The source of stress is thisjob and the at the.
At that time, the best solutionwas to quit and so, but as a
result, like all of my schooldata decreased, which has never
(21:08):
happened under my leadership.
That's why I said it was likethe worst year of my school.
Data decreased, which has neverhappened under my leadership.
That's why I said it was likethe worst year of my entire
career.
And you know I could say thatlike it was because of COVID and
things like that, and that'spartially true, and then you
know, hindsight is always 20-20.
But there were things that Icould have done, could have done
um differently, um, in myleadership, and there were some
(21:33):
decisions that I could have, youknow, better made Um, but I
didn't.
And so that that's what happenedas a result, like I was just
losing sight and touch ofeverything.
Like you know, the one thingthat I was putting the most time
in which was school.
That was sucking, and then athome I wasn't present, so it was
just like, well, what am Idoing?
(21:54):
So?
Um, so what I did to dig myselfout of that is that, you know,
I I'm a big advocate for mentalhealth and, you know, for
therapy, and, like you know, Italked to all of my staff
members and anybody I could talkto about therapy, and so I had
stopped going to therapy, so Ihad restarted going to therapy
(22:16):
again, and then from there, wedeveloped like a plan to put in
place where I was taking bettercare of myself.
And then the other thing that Ihad to do which I think was also
another true turning point forme is that I had to admit which
I think was also another trueturning point for me is that I
had to admit all of this infront of my staff.
They had to understand what wasgoing on, where I was coming
(22:37):
from, um, and you know, not notto get any sympathy from them,
but for them to reallyunderstand.
Like you know, this is whereall this is happening.
And so, when I sayvulnerability is a strength, and
that is the at that point,that's when I realized that I
should have been vulnerable andhonest all along.
(22:59):
And then, because at that point, my staff members who were
there, they rallied around me,you know, they made sure that,
like no, I was good, and theywere like, well, I can do this
to help, I could do this to help, I could do these things, we
just figured you got it and youwere okay, we didn't realize it
was getting this bad and um, andI, like I, I think I just
(23:23):
underestimated them in a lot ofways, which wasn't fair to them,
um, so, yeah, I mean that'sthat's what happened, it was, it
was probably the best.
Now, like you know, lookingback on that, I mean you have to
fail to fly, and so that wasthat point of failure that I
experienced, that I never wantto experience again, but I
(23:45):
learned so much from it that ithas completely changed.
Like you know how I lead, youknow how I look at my staff, you
using vulnerability, like youknow, because you know, before
leaders, it's like you know youcouldn't show emotion, you
couldn't, you know, admit thatyou were wrong or that you were
in a bad place.
Like you know, that was justinformation only for you and you
(24:06):
own, because you know it islonely.
So that that's that'sessentially what occurred.
Um, but from there, like youknow, my therapist and I we
developed a plan like to getmyself back on track and to
really evaluate if I needed to,like, if I really needed to not
be in this role anymore.
(24:28):
Um, that took a lot of soulsearching, but, but you know,
and also just talking to, like,my family, like I decided to
stay, and then I talked about,like talk to everybody, about
what that's going to look likefor me going forward, and so
some things were just likeboundaries.
Like you know, I'm not sendingany emails after five o'clock.
I don't expect anybody on mystaff to do so.
(24:50):
I'm only working on Saturdays,I'm only available for
emergencies, but I won't beemailing, I won't be doing
anything on Saturday.
So some of these boundaries arestill boundaries that I stick
to to this day, but that waswhat was missing.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I just didn't have any boundaries and I was just
running myself ragged yep and I,and I think the part that I
want to point out to anyonelistening is you set them, but
then you communicated them withyour staff, and that part is
important because people willset them, but then you don't
communicate them, then peopleare still sending you those
(25:28):
emails, people are still callingyou and texting you at all
times the night, and then if youpeople will continue to do what
of the night?
And then if you people willcontinue to do what you allow
them to do, so if you'reanswering, if they send you an
email at 8 PM and you're likeyou know what, I'm just going to
answer this one quick you arethen telling them that it's okay
to do that and that what Ishared with you about them
(25:48):
doesn't really matter, becauseit's okay for you to still send
it.
Cause'm going to respondanyways, because I don't like to
have that notification on myphone.
One of the things you sharedthat I know I ain't doing, but
I'm not you was that you didn't,you don't, I would I think my
anxiety would be through theroof was the fact that you don't
even have email on your phone.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Nope, I took it off because I was, because I was
that crazy person checking myemail at three in the morning,
then I can't sleep, then I'mtired the next day.
It was a bad, bad cycle.
So it's only been I want to sayit's only been about like eight
or nine months, but I stoppedputting email on my phone in
(26:30):
like October of like Octoberlast year, was able to manage a
building.
I was able to do all the thingsand know who called out and
come up with a coverage.
I was able to do all thosethings without checking my email
on my phone yeah, and I stoppedchecking my email after five so
well, you, yes, lynn, you don'tthink you can do it until you
try it.
So yeah, but I mean it, it's,it's life-changing, it really is
(26:53):
, like you know, and then youjust have to make sure and be
intentional about when you arechecking your email.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But once people know that you're not as accessible in
that way, they don't try tocontact you yeah, and if they do
, they know it's a trueemergency and the thing that
people can do, which I wassharing with someone the other
day and a lot of people don'trealize this is.
You can say there is somethingthat you need your principal to
know or that you need yourteachers to know, type the email
(27:20):
and schedule it to send thenext day.
You don't have to hit sendEmails are so sophisticated now.
You could schedule that email.
It could be 4.30 and you'relike you know what.
I don't want to bother anyoneat the end of the day, let me
schedule this for 8.07.
So when they walk in, they'llget it a few minutes after they
walk in.
Doing little things like that goa long way.
(27:41):
I used to shoot emails asthings got forwarded to me.
I would forward it to thepeople on my team that needed it
.
And then, maybe seven or eightmonths ago, I started to realize
why am I sending this?
Because then they're respondingjust like, hey, I got the email
and I'm like I don't want theresponse.
So what I started doing is Istarted queuing it up for about
10 to 15 minutes after they getto work the next day, so at
(28:03):
least they can get in and getsituated be at their computer.
Then it pops up versus like 6am and it's the first thing they
see when they wake up, whenthey wake up.
So I think that's a littlething for a school leader of how
you can also help your staffset those boundaries of just
scheduling those emails.
So now you know you're nottelling them not to email you,
(28:24):
but you're doing it to them andthey're doing it back and now
there's just a back and forthand everyone's boundaries have
been crossed and stepped over.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Right, and one thing that I think that I didn't
realize, and I don't think mostpeople realize, is that when you
send an email, most likely thatemail comes with something like
some sort of task behind it.
And so what happens is is thatwhen you're emailing a teacher
and you're emailing them fiveand six things, you know, then
that's five or six more thingsthat they had to do than before,
(28:53):
and, and then, most likely, andso that's five or six more
things that they had to do thanbefore, and and then most likely
, and so that's what some of myteachers were doing which is why
I stopped emailing after fiveis that they would see me send
something and they would get onit right away because they
wanted to get it done.
And then I'm perpetuating this,this cycle of, you know, poor
work-life balance, like I'm like, if you choose to work on your
(29:14):
time, that's your choice.
I don't want to be the one thatimposes that on you.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah, so yeah, and speaking of getting it done, we
got to wrap up and what I wantto do, um, before we jump off, I
want to do a rapid fire, thisor that.
So nothing, nothing crazy.
I'm gonna take it easy on youthis this time.
Next time you come on, I'mgonna going to make it more
challenging.
First one would you rather havea staff meeting or a student
assembly?
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Student assembly.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Would you rather have a vacation in the city or a
vacation on the beach Beach?
Would you rather have a peprally or would you rather have
peace and quiet?
Pep rally a pep rally, or wouldyou rather have peace and quiet
pep rally?
Would you rather have parentsjust visiting, or parents?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
that are in the classroom, parents in the
classroom temptations or boys tomen boys to men boys to men.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Uh, big year, tupac, big, best era of music all time.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Oh, don't make me choose that.
Oh God, Mo's a.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
DJ too.
For those that don't know, shedidn't tell that, but Mo's a DJ.
That's why I asked the musicquestion, I got two.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
So if I wasn't alive for this time, I'm going to do
one if I were alive, and thenone that I actually experienced
If I wasn't alive.
It that I actually experienced,if I wasn't alive, it was disco
, like the disco era thattransitioned into hip-hop.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I wasn't alive for that, I wasn't around.
The second one, and this issomething that I challenge you
to look up the best music wasreleased between the years of
1996 and 1999.
I'm not debating that becausebest album, best song songs we
still hear play to this day cameout during those years, best
(31:03):
music era, and that and that wasfor pop, hip pop, rock.
It didn't matter what genrecountry shania twain's I Feel
Like a Woman came out duringthat time.
Those are the two best eras tolisten to.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
If you're listening on YouTube, I need you to put a
comment in the chat of the bestsong from 96 to 99.
Your favorite song from 96 to99.
But, Mo, I appreciate you forjoining me.
I appreciate everyone that islistening.
If you have not not hit thelittle thumbs up, subscribe.
If you're on Apple podcasts, ifyou're on Spotify.
(31:39):
Mo, I appreciate you for notquitting in 2022 and still being
here and I appreciate you forthe work that you're doing.
I really really enjoyed being inthe room with you in St Paul
and in Austin just to be able tonot only to learn from you, but
, like I always say, it's justnice being in the room with
people who know the work that wedo matter and understand the
struggles that can be when youend up in these type of
(32:02):
positions.
So I truly, truly thank you foryour work, I thank you for
joining me and I thank everyonefor tuning in to Teacher's Ed
podcast.
Mo, can you do on your way out?
Can you let everyone know wherethey can find you, your
Instagram, youtube, youtube, anyinformation?
And please also make sure youplug all the rules for
engagement so everyone knowswhere they can find you guys all
(32:22):
right.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
So I am principal underscore mo on all platforms
and you can also follow therules to engagement on tiktok
and instagram.
The rules of engagement is onTikTok and Instagram.
The Rules to Engagement ispowered by knowledge.
It is a educator-led TV talkshow live, so it features myself
, alexia Pendleton, shivvyBrooks and Real Rap Reynolds or
(32:45):
CJ Reynolds, and so we talk todifferent guests.
We talk about current issues ineducation and we are on YouTube
as the rules to engagementAwesome.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Make sure you check those out Again.
Thank you for joining me.
Appreciate you all for tuningin and, until next time, keep
showing up for your staff, keepshowing up for your students.
Most importantly, keep showingup for yourself.
Teachers at Podcast.
See you soon.
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