September 16, 2025 • 25 mins
In Episode 153 of the Teaching Tax Flow podcast, hosts Chris Picciurro, CPA, and John Tripolsky welcome Jessica Correnti from Capital Square to unpack the power and potential of Qualified Opportunity Zone (QOZ) Funds.
For entrepreneurs, investors, and tax pros, Opportunity Zone Funds represent one of the most significant planning opportunities available — offering ways to defer capital gains, reduce taxes, and unlock tax-free growth. Jessica shares how these funds work, why they were introduced, and how business owners and investors can leverage them before key deadlines hit in 2026.
From real-world examples to industry insights, this episode highlights how QOZs can support economic development while also delivering powerful tax advantages.
What You’ll Learn:
• How Qualified Opportunity Zone Funds allow investors to defer and reduce capital gains taxes
• Why the program was created and which communities benefit most
• The timeline for Opportunity Zone deferrals (and why 2026 matters)
• Strategies for pairing QOZs with other tax planning tools
• Key industries — like hospitality and real estate — where QOZs have been most impactful
Key Insights:
QOZ Funds are more than just a tax break — they’re a strategic tool for reinvestment and growth. By rolling gains into qualified projects, investors can achieve tax-free appreciation while driving economic development in underserved areas.
Notable Quotes:
• “You are allowed to defer your capital gains into an Opportunity Zone Fund — and if held long enough, the appreciation can be tax-free.” – Jessica Correnti
• “Hospitality has been good because the zones are typically where they’re trying to drive revenue.” – Jessica Correnti
• “Ideas are cheap, but implementation is valuable.” – Chris Picciurro
Resources:
Episode Sponsor:
Strategic Associates, LLC
Roger Roundy
www.linkedin.com/in/roger-roundy-86887b23
- (00:00) - Summary
- (00:03) - Exploring Qualified Opportunity Zone Funds and Tax Benefits
- (04:05) - Exploring Tax Advantages of Opportunity Zone Funds
- (06:25) - Sports Allegiances and Personal Stories From Detroit to Nashville
- (07:29) - Exploring Tax Benefits of Opportunity Zone Funds
- (15:25) - Opportunity Zones 2.0: Permanent Benefits and Economic Impact
- (22:31) - Exploring Opportunity Zones and Resources with Jessica
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Tripolsky (00:03):
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the teaching
tax flow podcast today episode a153. We are gonna dive into
those sometimes misunderstoodqualified opportunity zone
funds. But before you do that,as always, let's take a brief
moment and thank our episodesponsor.
Ad Read (00:24):
This podcast is brought to you by Strategic Associates.
Are you a high income earner,real estate investor, or
successful entrepreneur who isfrustrated by having to pay
$75,000 or more of annual taxliability? If so, Strategic
Associates can help. Your firststep to saving thousands, if not
hundreds of thousands, is tocontact Roger Roundy at
(00:45):
roger@strategicag.net or bycalling (801) 641-2956, and be
sure to tell them TTF sent you.
John Tripolsky (00:56):
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the teaching
tax flow podcast. Today, I'mgonna say it because Chris has
said it usually time and timeagain, I should say. We have a
topic that we've mentioned very,very briefly, multiple times
throughout the 100 and, what,150, 160 some episodes that
we're up to, and we've neveractually defined what this is
nor have we ever gone reallyinto any detail on what it is,
(01:19):
how to take advantage of it, howto not take advantage of it,
specific things, and kind ofdoing a fence around this thing.
So we're gonna talk around thetopic. I'm not gonna tell you
what it is because as I alwayslike to say, you can read it in
the title.
Read it in the show notes. Don'tbe lazy. It's everywhere. You
don't need to hear it again.Chris McCarroll, welcome back to
your own show, man, and you canintroduce our guest as always.
(01:40):
You find these great people tojoin us, and it makes me feel
really dumb because I'm alwaysthe dumbest guy in the room when
we talk about this stuff. Butthen you bring a guest in, and
it really knocks me down a peg,and I'm okay with that.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (01:50):
Should say John, it's great to be back. I'm
very excited about our specialguest this on this week's
episode. I had a phone a friendrefer introduce me to this
guest, so I can't take fullcredit for this. However, John,
you I'm still impressed withyour mentioning of depreciation
recapture a few weeks ago. I'mI'm floored that you even have
(02:14):
that terminology in yourpersonal dictionary, so I'm
pretty proud of you still.
John Tripolsky (02:19):
We know. Sometimes being a marketing guy,
there's not a whole lot of extraspace up here in the dome, but
the little room that there issometimes, you know, I I can
extrapolate something. So and I,you know, I gotta give you
credit for it. I learned it fromyou at some point in the twenty
some odd years.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (02:34):
So Or editing all these podcasts,
maybe.
John Tripolsky (02:37):
Or that. I'm tired of hearing your voice,
man. This is why I love guests.There was I hear less
Chris Picciurro, CPA (02:40):
Oh, we're excited. We're excited about our
guests today. And and one of thethings we have to understand,
and then we're and then we'regonna dive into it, one of the
three laws of teaching tax law,one of our three laws of tax
planning that the tax agenciesare our involuntary business
partner, and tax laws arewritten to encourage and
discourage certain economic,social, whatever behavior. We
(03:06):
also know that tax free incomeand growth is a very powerful
tool. A lot of times when peoplethink about tax planning and
strategy, they're thinkingabout, what could I do to reduce
my tax today?
But there are some strategiesthat not only could potentially
defer your tax from today, reddiagnosis, but give you tax free
income and growth, and that'svery, very powerful. One of
(03:30):
those strategies that is ahybrid strategy, so hits on
multiple different tax benefitsor diagnoses, are qualified
opportunity zone funds. Andwe're gonna talk about that
because one of the things I seein the private CPA practice and
in our teaching tax lawcommunity is that there's a
misconception that if youpurchase a piece of real estate
(03:55):
that happens to be in anopportunity zone, you get some
type of tax benefit, and that'snot necessarily the case. So I'm
excited. We're gonna welcomeJessica Currenti from Capital
Square.
Jessica, welcome to our podcast,and thank you so much for
joining us.
Jessica Correnti (04:14):
Thanks so much for having me. I'm honored for
the opportunity to speak withyou both. I'm really impressed
with the other sessions thatyou've had. I took some time to
listen, so I'm excited to to beon here today. Thank you.
John Tripolsky (04:26):
We're excited that you showed up if you've
listened to the other ones. Sogood congratulations to you.
Jessica Correnti (04:31):
Sure. I I had a window free up today.
John Tripolsky (04:34):
There you go.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (04:34):
We we appreciate it. K. Before we jump
in, can you tell us a little bitabout yourself and how you found
your way into, finances, theCapital Square? We've you know,
we know that, I think you are inthe city of brotherly love right
now. But how did you find yourway there?
Jessica Correnti (04:55):
Sure. The quick version is I started with
a printed out resume that Ihanded to the front desk at
Morgan Stanley office in NewYork and asked for a job.
Fortunately, whatever they reador however I put it was good
enough for them to invite me tocome in and start working at
(05:16):
Morgan Stanley, switched over tothe sponsor side. The private
real estate, private equitypeople always caught my
attention and wanted to be apart of something where I could
grow in my career, and I thoughtthat was a great space to be in.
Fast forward about thirteenyears, I'm head of distribution
national accounts at CapitalSquare, helping all advisers
across the nation understand howpowerful these TATS advantaged
(05:40):
real estate solutions can canreally be, especially
opportunity zones.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (05:45):
Gotcha. So, yeah, there are very talk
about that certain industries dohave tax favoritism, in the tax
code. Real estate's one of them.Opportunity zone funds are part
of that that tax advantage. Sothat's cool.
That is really cool. And, didyou did you grow up in the
Philadelphia area, or did youmigrate there?
Jessica Correnti (06:06):
Grew up in New York, and then I broke the
cardinal rule, broke my parents'hearts, and moved to New Jersey.
So, you know, we're out herenow, Philadelphia Eagles fans.
The Jets are near and dear to myfather's heart, but we'll be
ruining Super Bowls over here.How are you guys doing?
Chris Picciurro, CPA (06:25):
Yes. We're good. No. I understand. I grew
up in Detroit.
I've been in Nashville with myfamily for about a little over
nine years and became lions freemany, many years ago when Barry
Sanders retired. So when wemoved here, our kids were so
young. They're 16, 15, and 12now. We adopted the titans, and
they're just about as bad asthey are at the time of this
(06:45):
recording. So it was pretty,there's a lot of room on that
bandwagon for for anyone thatwanted to be a titan span.
We've ridden a pretty good ride.They had a good run for a while,
but, all my other teams I wentto Michigan State. I'm a big
Detroit tiger fan. Like, thoseteams are are still, still a
part of me. And I know JohnJohn, you know, he's not a he
understands hockey, pretty well,and I know he's a big Red Wing
(07:07):
fan.
John Tripolsky (07:08):
Yeah. You know what? It basically takes a
specific person, as my friendssay, to voluntarily take a puck
to the head being an ice hockeygoalie for sixteen years. So
maybe that's why my personalityis a little off sometimes,
Chris. I don't know.
We'll figure it out.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (07:23):
Well, you know what's not off? The tax
benefits are qualifiedopportunity zone funds. And and
the cool thing with
John Tripolsky (07:29):
That is the best way, though, that you've ever
reeled a topic back on schedule,sir. That was incredible. Well
There you go.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (07:37):
Hey. The that it ties in. So cool with
opportunity zone funds. I knowthey came about during the Tax
Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. Andfor the purposes of this
conversation, and I actually amstealing this from Jessica, I
learned in our when we chattedbefore, we're gonna call that o
z one point o.
And then o b three. Oh, John.I'm so proud of you that you put
(08:01):
those, yeah, those acronymjingle, and, John created a
little sound bite for any timewe use a tax acronym like OB
three, and it create a tax, youknow, or or opportunity zone
fund two point o. And let'skinda talk through from a 30,000
foot view just the tax benefitsof opportunity zone funds, and
(08:25):
then maybe jump in at one pointo versus two point o.
Jessica Correnti (08:28):
Sure. And one note prior, if you have a tax
acronym jingle, you could beable to sell that to any
wholesaler or CPA or adviser outthere. That's that's the
moneymaker opportunity.
John Tripolsky (08:40):
We're gonna Chris being in Nashville, we're
gonna catch him on the streetsone day, and he'll, like, sing a
little jingle for us.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (08:46):
Oh, you don't want that. No.
John Tripolsky (08:48):
I'll get out of ukulele, and Chris will start
singing. It'll it'll be a hitamongst nobody. It'll be
fantastic.
Jessica Correnti (08:56):
But back to opportunity zones and how they
can help an investor. Theinteresting thing about
opportunity zones is any capitalgain can be worked with an
opportunity zone opportunity. Itcould be a capital gain from
stocks and bonds, how you mighttypically think. It can be a
capital gain from the sale ofreal estate, but it'd also be a
(09:18):
capital gain from the sale of abusiness, sale of art, crypto or
Bitcoin, and it can be a shortterm or long term capital gain.
So if you have literally anyscenario where there's any
capital gain, you might have anopportunity to work with your
advisor for an opportunity zoneoffering.
In opportunity zones one pointzero, so speaking of the people
(09:40):
today, because there's no reasonto speak of the past, today you
have the ability to invest thatcapital gain in a qualified fund
and defer your tax due on thatgain until the tax year for
2026, so payable about April2027. In the meantime, your
(10:02):
investment in that qualifiedfund can grow tax free for ten
years at a minimum. So it's avery powerful tool to get tax
free growth and defer taxes fora little while.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (10:16):
And and and, Jessica, you made a great
point. A lot of times people arevery hung up on ten thirty one
exchanges, and we are advocatesof ten thirty one. I've used ten
thirty one in my personal life.However, it's very restrictive.
And the cool thing aboutopportunity zone fund
investments is that you nailedit.
It could just be your capitalgain. It could be a portion of
(10:38):
your capital gain. Right? Itcould be the cap any capital
gain, and you don't have to useintermediary. So a lot of times,
these capital gains are actuallystraddling straddling a year.
And I've had several situationsin our private CPA practice
where someone may have had acapital gain, a large gain,
let's say, December 20, andwe're looking at potentially
(11:01):
making a tax extension payment.Most of our clients do our tax
extensions in April 15, andwe're saying, okay. You're gonna
owe x amount of dollars. Oh, Iwish I could have done
something. You still can.
What are some of the rules asfar as how long do you have from
that time you have your capitalgain to to deploy that into an
opportunity zone fund?
Jessica Correnti (11:20):
You have a hundred and eighty days to
deploy. And to your point withten thirty ones, there is no
restrictive ID window oranything like that with the
qualified opportunity zone. Ifind often, and maybe this is a
similar example to what you'regiving, people's exchanges will
not work out. And they're at day47. Ugh.
(11:41):
What do we do? We have to paythe tax. No. You don't. Use a
qualified opportunity zone fund.
Right.
Chris Picciurro, CPA: Absolutely. So it's it's a (11:46):
undefined
remedy. And a lot of times, itallows them if they if they
started at a a ten thirty one,they opened it they opened it up
with a QI, they they cancel it.They're surprised to realize,
wait. I might have $500,000 inmy pocket, but my capital gain
was really only 300,000.
I I can keep 200 in my pocketand deploy the 300. So I I to
(12:10):
me, the ultimate flexibilityhere, in in so fact that you
can, you know,
John Tripolsky (12:17):
all are, you know, all are
Chris Picciurro, CPA (12:18):
part of your gain. And then I believe in
a from I I I shouldn't be,trying to remember this on a on
a live, feed or a liverecording, but I'm pretty
certain that it you get thehundred and eighty days from the
time you're aware of the gain.So for instance, let's say I am
a partner in a partnership, andI own a sliver in an apartment
(12:39):
building. That apartmentbuilding might have gotten sold,
and I may not have even knownbecause maybe there's a bunch of
apartment buildings. Chances areI might have an idea.
I actually get the one hundredand eighty days from the time I
get my k one or in some sosometimes it could be beyond a
hundred and eighty days into thetax year is my point.
Jessica Correnti (12:55):
Absolutely. So for the tax due date of April
27, if you're a partnership, youmight have a delay you know, an
extended period of time whereyou'll be paying that tax bill.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (13:04):
Yeah. So that is that so there's a lot of
flexibility on OZ Fund one pointo. And and, again, and then if
you if you keep it for tenyears, then you could get some
tax free or tax, yeah, tax freegrowth.
Jessica Correnti (13:17):
Tax free growth. Yep.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (13:18):
Wow. So anything else on tax pro or tax?
OZ one point o or we can call itOZ OG.
Jessica Correnti (13:27):
OZ OG. OG. I love that.
John Tripolsky (13:29):
Now we need like a rap jingle going on there.
Jessica Correnti (13:32):
It helps with all the numbers and yeah. OG OZ
one point o. So let's the verytop number one tax incentive is
the tax free growth, of course,over a ten year period. I would
argue more than the deferralinto 2027 that the next largest
(13:54):
benefit of the one point oprogram is the potential to
eliminate a portion of whatyou're going to owe in 2027
through the fair market valueprovision in the tax code for
opportunity zones. Simple way toput it, you are allowed to
recognize for your tax purposes,the fair market value of the
(14:17):
investment as of 12/31/2026, orthe amount of your gain less
your basis.
So if you have a fund or you'reinvested in something where they
provide a new value and thevalue is less than your gain,
You're now paying even less inyour taxes come 2027.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (14:40):
That's a great point because and that's a
fear of many people thinkingabout a qualified opportunity
zone fund. Man, I've got a, youknow, $50,000 gain, but I really
only have, for lack of a betterterm, $40,000 of equity or
$40,000 of fair market value. Ipay tax on too much. And,
ultimately, that's I think it'svery fair. No pun intended.
(15:03):
So that's a great benefit. Andthat look that that snapshot's
12/31/2026. Correct? That that'swhen that fair market value
would be assessed.
Jessica Correnti (15:12):
Exactly. So it'll be a a whatever the fair
market value is as of that date.Correct.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (15:17):
Awesome. So if
Jessica Correnti (15:18):
you have a value that's struck in November
2026, as long as it doesn'tchange
John Tripolsky (15:22):
Mhmm.
Jessica Correnti (15:23):
By the end of the year, you're good.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (15:25):
Wow. So I'm gonna move on to to to OZ
two point o. Maybe we'll call itOZ senior, and we got OZ junior,
but I think
John Tripolsky (15:36):
I like the OG one.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (15:37):
Yeah. We're going OG. We're gonna go
OG in two point o. So for twopoint o, doesn't come into play,
you know, until 2027. Gains in01/01/2027 or into the future.
But what are some of the thingsthat, the one big beautiful bill
(15:58):
stated with with withopportunity zone funds because
they were gonna go they're gonnabe gone, basically, if it if
they weren't put into the theact.
Jessica Correnti (16:06):
Yeah. And and frankly, a lot of people I've
been speaking to who are on theadviser side of the business
didn't bother to learn aboutopportunity zones because they
were not permanent. So I'd saythat the the what we should be
celebrating the most with twopoint zero and Obi three is the
fact that opportunity zones arenow permanent, which really
(16:30):
shouldn't be a surprise. It'sbeen the arguably the most
effective piece of taxlegislation in the history of
our nation for both the taxbenefit and the impact in
communities?
Chris Picciurro, CPA (16:44):
I could tell you the impact in
communities are is I mean, youknow, in Nashville, there's an
area called The Gulch that usedto be you know, when we moved
here ten years ago, was, quote,unquote, an up and coming area,
and it's beautiful. There'sareas when we went to Atlanta
for my son's baseballtournament, Buckhead. There are
areas that were opportunities onfunds that look great now. So,
(17:05):
you know, I feel like the it hasit has helped with economic
development of certain areas,job creation, and all that
stuff. So so making it permanentdoes give it a sense of, not
just permanency, legitimacy asfar as this is a strategy that
we can use indefinitely andshould be considered.
(17:27):
Yeah.
Jessica Correnti (17:28):
Just at, Capital Square, we've in the
projects that we've done, wehave seen over a $190,000,000 of
GDP created just from ourprojects in Opportunity Zones.
So we love it from both theimpact and from the benefit
side. So I can definitely sharesome of the benefits that OZ two
(17:48):
point o will have. You know,again, this is really looking
and planning for two yearsahead. This is not something you
can act on today.
One point o is where you'reacting today.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (18:00):
Right.
Jessica Correnti (18:01):
For two point o, you're still gonna get that
ten year of tax free growthbenefit if you hold it for those
ten years. What you get in twopoint zero is a five year
deferral on your tax for yourcapital gain. So you're looking
at a 10% increase in basis for atypical OZ project or a 30%
(18:26):
increase if you're at a ruralopportunity zone fund, which a
lot of speculation about whatrural will be defined as. We'll
find out probably towards theend of the year.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (18:38):
Gotcha. Yeah. And and that's something
that was it was myunderstanding, and and correct
me if I'm wrong, but when theyidentified opportunity zones for
the TCJA or OG or one point o, alot of that was put on the
states or the governors, and alot of that, they went back to
the 2010 census and identifiedareas that you wouldn't think
were, quote, unquote, needing aredevelopment. So it'll be
(19:02):
interesting to see the does whatis designated as an opportunity
zone and what is a ruralopportunity zone. You know?
Or it'll just be really fun tosee. As a tax professional, I I
love seeing that kinda that kindof stuff.
Jessica Correnti (19:16):
And I think it will be interesting to see spots
or, like, outside of justCapitol Square come up with
creative ways to put moneyefficiently to work. You know,
you can't put a apartmentbuilding in the middle of a
cornfield. Right? You need tofind something, you know, be a
little bit more diligent aboutwhat you're investing in for a
(19:37):
two point o.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (19:38):
And not not talking about any specific
funds or anything like that, butwhat are some of the what
activities you're seeing inopportunity zone funds?
Obviously, real estate's big.What kind of what type of real
estate or what what what type ofactivities are you seeing that
in your experience?
Jessica Correnti (19:55):
I've seen a lot of development of
multifamily, some hospitality.Hospitality has been good
because the the zones, right,are typically where they're
trying to drive revenue. Soyou'll think of tourism.
Multifamily, of course, ishousing shortage everywhere. Any
person you ask in America willtell you.
(20:15):
We're seeing businesses. You'reable to invest in businesses for
qualified opportunity zones. Soyou see some gold and things
like that. It really runs thegamut. Some storage.
Yeah.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (20:27):
Wow. And the yeah. I mean, the outlook is
really good on this. Right?Because it because it's you
know?
But we're gonna I think we gottafocus now if you're listening to
this and and in one point o. Andthere's that's that's there's
still opportunity, no punintended there, because even in
(20:48):
you know, let's say you were tohave a capital gain in November
2025. To be able to defer yourtax for almost a year and a half
plus the other step up in basisbenefit you you explained gives
you an extra year and a half toplan. You know? So that's that's
another, that's another factoralso.
So
Jessica Correnti (21:08):
Some capital gains you can time, but some you
can't. So what do you do today?Are you gonna pay all your money
to Uncle Sam, or are you gonnafind a solution? And one point o
is still a very viable solution.And
Chris Picciurro, CPA (21:21):
I have one question, you know, kind of a
final question on that 10 rule.With can you explain that clock?
In other words, does the tenyear start on the day of the
capital gain, the day of the dayof the capital gain, a day of
the day of the investment, thefirst tax year of the
investment, what how does howdoes that work?
Jessica Correnti (21:42):
So when you're investing in a qualified
opportunity zone fund, the fundhas to hold the qualified
investments for ten years fromthe last dollar invested.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (21:52):
Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. So so there's
some advantages of kinda beingearly into a fund. There's some
advantages to being kinda at thetail end of it, depending on
where you're at.
Awesome. Anything else that youthink I might have missed on?
I'm I'm looking at my notes, andand and one thing that I you
know, just a thought as far asfrom a bigger picture with OB
(22:15):
three, you know, we we thoughtthere was potential that capital
the capital gains rate might goback up and it's staying lower,
but the fact that you have shortterm capital gains eligible for
o z funds is very attractivebecause a short term gain could
be a pretty high tax.
Jessica Correnti (22:31):
Yes. And if you think about what has
happened in the market over thelast year, especially or even in
just the crypto market in thelast year, maybe you have Nvidia
positions, this might be areally strong opportunity to
derisk yourself a bit anddiversify.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (22:48):
That's a great point.
Ad Read (22:50):
Well, I we appreciate it. If someone has to get
Chris Picciurro, CPA (22:52):
or want someone wants to get ahold of
you, and what's the best way forthem to reach you?
Jessica Correnti (22:59):
Best email for me is sales@capitalsq.com.
Otherwise, I'm on LinkedIn andalways out and about at these
different conferences andevents, so thank you so much.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (23:10):
Well, thank you. We appreciate it.
This has been amazing. I havebeen working in OZ funds for
many years, and I actually Ilearned a few things today, and,
I know our listeners are gonnabe very happy.
Jessica Correnti (23:22):
Great. And, Chris, you get another a fan.
John Tripolsky (23:24):
Chris, you get another point on the board for
another good guest. Okay. Youhaven't failed yet. So, you
know, we're we're doing goodhere. But this is I mean, so I
know we talked about this, and,you know, I'll wrap this up
really quick.
But as far as for this topic,right, I think now after this
conversation, people have apretty good grasp of where they
stand right now, what these are.Is is there anything specific,
(23:46):
Jessica, that you may have ifthey have specific questions on
this stuff? I mean, obviously,they can reach out to you. They
can connect with you. But isthere are there any resources
that you guys have maybe onlineor a newsletter or anything like
that as well that somebody couldget, you know, kind of an
ongoing support updates withthis stuff?
Jessica Correnti (24:04):
Thousand percent. If you went to
capitalsquare.com, you'd be ableto sign up for the newsletters
and our equity updates. You'llbe able to go to our Opportunity
Zone Learning Center whereyou'll find all of this
information I've provided, somewalk through brochures, videos,
and of course, contactinformation with the other sales
team members at Capital Square.
John Tripolsky (24:24):
Awesome. Perfect. Perfect. Well, as Chris
mentioned, thanks, thanks forjoining us. Thanks for sticking
it out with us.
And, obviously, thank you forshowing up because if like I
said earlier, if you've listenedto our stuff, we didn't scare
you away, so you must have ahave a strong personality kinda
like us.
Jessica Correnti (24:38):
I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks so much,
guys.
John Tripolsky (24:41):
Awesome, Jessica. And Chris, I guess I'll
see you again next week. Sametime. We'll do it again. Sounds
good.
Alright, everybody. Well, thankyou for joining us here on the
teaching tax flow podcast. We'llsee you again next week. Same
day of the week, different date,completely different topic. Have
a good week, everybody.
Disclaimer (25:01):
The content provided is for educational purposes
only. We encourage you to seekpersonalized investment advice
from your financialprofessional. For all tax and
legal advice, please consultyour CPA or attorney. Investment
advisory services are offeredthrough Cabin Advisors, a
registered investment advisor.Securities are offered through
Cabin Securities, a registeredbroker dealer.
The content of this podcast doesnot constitute an offer of
(25:22):
securities. Offerings can onlybe made through an offering
memorandum, and you shouldcarefully examine the risk
factors and other informationcontained in the memorandum.
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the teaching
tax flow podcast today episode a153. We are gonna dive into
those sometimes misunderstoodqualified opportunity zone
funds. But before you do that,as always, let's take a brief
moment and thank our episodesponsor.
Ad Read (00:24):
This podcast is brought to you by Strategic Associates.
Are you a high income earner,real estate investor, or
successful entrepreneur who isfrustrated by having to pay
$75,000 or more of annual taxliability? If so, Strategic
Associates can help. Your firststep to saving thousands, if not
hundreds of thousands, is tocontact Roger Roundy at
(00:45):
roger@strategicag.net or bycalling (801) 641-2956, and be
sure to tell them TTF sent you.
John Tripolsky (00:56):
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the teaching
tax flow podcast. Today, I'mgonna say it because Chris has
said it usually time and timeagain, I should say. We have a
topic that we've mentioned very,very briefly, multiple times
throughout the 100 and, what,150, 160 some episodes that
we're up to, and we've neveractually defined what this is
nor have we ever gone reallyinto any detail on what it is,
(01:19):
how to take advantage of it, howto not take advantage of it,
specific things, and kind ofdoing a fence around this thing.
So we're gonna talk around thetopic. I'm not gonna tell you
what it is because as I alwayslike to say, you can read it in
the title.
Read it in the show notes. Don'tbe lazy. It's everywhere. You
don't need to hear it again.Chris McCarroll, welcome back to
your own show, man, and you canintroduce our guest as always.
(01:40):
You find these great people tojoin us, and it makes me feel
really dumb because I'm alwaysthe dumbest guy in the room when
we talk about this stuff. Butthen you bring a guest in, and
it really knocks me down a peg,and I'm okay with that.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (01:50):
Should say John, it's great to be back. I'm
very excited about our specialguest this on this week's
episode. I had a phone a friendrefer introduce me to this
guest, so I can't take fullcredit for this. However, John,
you I'm still impressed withyour mentioning of depreciation
recapture a few weeks ago. I'mI'm floored that you even have
(02:14):
that terminology in yourpersonal dictionary, so I'm
pretty proud of you still.
John Tripolsky (02:19):
We know. Sometimes being a marketing guy,
there's not a whole lot of extraspace up here in the dome, but
the little room that there issometimes, you know, I I can
extrapolate something. So and I,you know, I gotta give you
credit for it. I learned it fromyou at some point in the twenty
some odd years.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (02:34):
So Or editing all these podcasts,
maybe.
John Tripolsky (02:37):
Or that. I'm tired of hearing your voice,
man. This is why I love guests.There was I hear less
Chris Picciurro, CPA (02:40):
Oh, we're excited. We're excited about our
guests today. And and one of thethings we have to understand,
and then we're and then we'regonna dive into it, one of the
three laws of teaching tax law,one of our three laws of tax
planning that the tax agenciesare our involuntary business
partner, and tax laws arewritten to encourage and
discourage certain economic,social, whatever behavior. We
(03:06):
also know that tax free incomeand growth is a very powerful
tool. A lot of times when peoplethink about tax planning and
strategy, they're thinkingabout, what could I do to reduce
my tax today?
But there are some strategiesthat not only could potentially
defer your tax from today, reddiagnosis, but give you tax free
income and growth, and that'svery, very powerful. One of
(03:30):
those strategies that is ahybrid strategy, so hits on
multiple different tax benefitsor diagnoses, are qualified
opportunity zone funds. Andwe're gonna talk about that
because one of the things I seein the private CPA practice and
in our teaching tax lawcommunity is that there's a
misconception that if youpurchase a piece of real estate
(03:55):
that happens to be in anopportunity zone, you get some
type of tax benefit, and that'snot necessarily the case. So I'm
excited. We're gonna welcomeJessica Currenti from Capital
Square.
Jessica, welcome to our podcast,and thank you so much for
joining us.
Jessica Correnti (04:14):
Thanks so much for having me. I'm honored for
the opportunity to speak withyou both. I'm really impressed
with the other sessions thatyou've had. I took some time to
listen, so I'm excited to to beon here today. Thank you.
John Tripolsky (04:26):
We're excited that you showed up if you've
listened to the other ones. Sogood congratulations to you.
Jessica Correnti (04:31):
Sure. I I had a window free up today.
John Tripolsky (04:34):
There you go.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (04:34):
We we appreciate it. K. Before we jump
in, can you tell us a little bitabout yourself and how you found
your way into, finances, theCapital Square? We've you know,
we know that, I think you are inthe city of brotherly love right
now. But how did you find yourway there?
Jessica Correnti (04:55):
Sure. The quick version is I started with
a printed out resume that Ihanded to the front desk at
Morgan Stanley office in NewYork and asked for a job.
Fortunately, whatever they reador however I put it was good
enough for them to invite me tocome in and start working at
(05:16):
Morgan Stanley, switched over tothe sponsor side. The private
real estate, private equitypeople always caught my
attention and wanted to be apart of something where I could
grow in my career, and I thoughtthat was a great space to be in.
Fast forward about thirteenyears, I'm head of distribution
national accounts at CapitalSquare, helping all advisers
across the nation understand howpowerful these TATS advantaged
(05:40):
real estate solutions can canreally be, especially
opportunity zones.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (05:45):
Gotcha. So, yeah, there are very talk
about that certain industries dohave tax favoritism, in the tax
code. Real estate's one of them.Opportunity zone funds are part
of that that tax advantage. Sothat's cool.
That is really cool. And, didyou did you grow up in the
Philadelphia area, or did youmigrate there?
Jessica Correnti (06:06):
Grew up in New York, and then I broke the
cardinal rule, broke my parents'hearts, and moved to New Jersey.
So, you know, we're out herenow, Philadelphia Eagles fans.
The Jets are near and dear to myfather's heart, but we'll be
ruining Super Bowls over here.How are you guys doing?
Chris Picciurro, CPA (06:25):
Yes. We're good. No. I understand. I grew
up in Detroit.
I've been in Nashville with myfamily for about a little over
nine years and became lions freemany, many years ago when Barry
Sanders retired. So when wemoved here, our kids were so
young. They're 16, 15, and 12now. We adopted the titans, and
they're just about as bad asthey are at the time of this
(06:45):
recording. So it was pretty,there's a lot of room on that
bandwagon for for anyone thatwanted to be a titan span.
We've ridden a pretty good ride.They had a good run for a while,
but, all my other teams I wentto Michigan State. I'm a big
Detroit tiger fan. Like, thoseteams are are still, still a
part of me. And I know JohnJohn, you know, he's not a he
understands hockey, pretty well,and I know he's a big Red Wing
(07:07):
fan.
John Tripolsky (07:08):
Yeah. You know what? It basically takes a
specific person, as my friendssay, to voluntarily take a puck
to the head being an ice hockeygoalie for sixteen years. So
maybe that's why my personalityis a little off sometimes,
Chris. I don't know.
We'll figure it out.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (07:23):
Well, you know what's not off? The tax
benefits are qualifiedopportunity zone funds. And and
the cool thing with
John Tripolsky (07:29):
That is the best way, though, that you've ever
reeled a topic back on schedule,sir. That was incredible. Well
There you go.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (07:37):
Hey. The that it ties in. So cool with
opportunity zone funds. I knowthey came about during the Tax
Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. Andfor the purposes of this
conversation, and I actually amstealing this from Jessica, I
learned in our when we chattedbefore, we're gonna call that o
z one point o.
And then o b three. Oh, John.I'm so proud of you that you put
(08:01):
those, yeah, those acronymjingle, and, John created a
little sound bite for any timewe use a tax acronym like OB
three, and it create a tax, youknow, or or opportunity zone
fund two point o. And let'skinda talk through from a 30,000
foot view just the tax benefitsof opportunity zone funds, and
(08:25):
then maybe jump in at one pointo versus two point o.
Jessica Correnti (08:28):
Sure. And one note prior, if you have a tax
acronym jingle, you could beable to sell that to any
wholesaler or CPA or adviser outthere. That's that's the
moneymaker opportunity.
John Tripolsky (08:40):
We're gonna Chris being in Nashville, we're
gonna catch him on the streetsone day, and he'll, like, sing a
little jingle for us.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (08:46):
Oh, you don't want that. No.
John Tripolsky (08:48):
I'll get out of ukulele, and Chris will start
singing. It'll it'll be a hitamongst nobody. It'll be
fantastic.
Jessica Correnti (08:56):
But back to opportunity zones and how they
can help an investor. Theinteresting thing about
opportunity zones is any capitalgain can be worked with an
opportunity zone opportunity. Itcould be a capital gain from
stocks and bonds, how you mighttypically think. It can be a
capital gain from the sale ofreal estate, but it'd also be a
(09:18):
capital gain from the sale of abusiness, sale of art, crypto or
Bitcoin, and it can be a shortterm or long term capital gain.
So if you have literally anyscenario where there's any
capital gain, you might have anopportunity to work with your
advisor for an opportunity zoneoffering.
In opportunity zones one pointzero, so speaking of the people
(09:40):
today, because there's no reasonto speak of the past, today you
have the ability to invest thatcapital gain in a qualified fund
and defer your tax due on thatgain until the tax year for
2026, so payable about April2027. In the meantime, your
(10:02):
investment in that qualifiedfund can grow tax free for ten
years at a minimum. So it's avery powerful tool to get tax
free growth and defer taxes fora little while.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (10:16):
And and and, Jessica, you made a great
point. A lot of times people arevery hung up on ten thirty one
exchanges, and we are advocatesof ten thirty one. I've used ten
thirty one in my personal life.However, it's very restrictive.
And the cool thing aboutopportunity zone fund
investments is that you nailedit.
It could just be your capitalgain. It could be a portion of
(10:38):
your capital gain. Right? Itcould be the cap any capital
gain, and you don't have to useintermediary. So a lot of times,
these capital gains are actuallystraddling straddling a year.
And I've had several situationsin our private CPA practice
where someone may have had acapital gain, a large gain,
let's say, December 20, andwe're looking at potentially
(11:01):
making a tax extension payment.Most of our clients do our tax
extensions in April 15, andwe're saying, okay. You're gonna
owe x amount of dollars. Oh, Iwish I could have done
something. You still can.
What are some of the rules asfar as how long do you have from
that time you have your capitalgain to to deploy that into an
opportunity zone fund?
Jessica Correnti (11:20):
You have a hundred and eighty days to
deploy. And to your point withten thirty ones, there is no
restrictive ID window oranything like that with the
qualified opportunity zone. Ifind often, and maybe this is a
similar example to what you'regiving, people's exchanges will
not work out. And they're at day47. Ugh.
(11:41):
What do we do? We have to paythe tax. No. You don't. Use a
qualified opportunity zone fund.
Right.
Chris Picciurro, CPA: Absolutely. So it's it's a (11:46):
undefined
remedy. And a lot of times, itallows them if they if they
started at a a ten thirty one,they opened it they opened it up
with a QI, they they cancel it.They're surprised to realize,
wait. I might have $500,000 inmy pocket, but my capital gain
was really only 300,000.
I I can keep 200 in my pocketand deploy the 300. So I I to
(12:10):
me, the ultimate flexibilityhere, in in so fact that you
can, you know,
John Tripolsky (12:17):
all are, you know, all are
Chris Picciurro, CPA (12:18):
part of your gain. And then I believe in
a from I I I shouldn't be,trying to remember this on a on
a live, feed or a liverecording, but I'm pretty
certain that it you get thehundred and eighty days from the
time you're aware of the gain.So for instance, let's say I am
a partner in a partnership, andI own a sliver in an apartment
(12:39):
building. That apartmentbuilding might have gotten sold,
and I may not have even knownbecause maybe there's a bunch of
apartment buildings. Chances areI might have an idea.
I actually get the one hundredand eighty days from the time I
get my k one or in some sosometimes it could be beyond a
hundred and eighty days into thetax year is my point.
Jessica Correnti (12:55):
Absolutely. So for the tax due date of April
27, if you're a partnership, youmight have a delay you know, an
extended period of time whereyou'll be paying that tax bill.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (13:04):
Yeah. So that is that so there's a lot of
flexibility on OZ Fund one pointo. And and, again, and then if
you if you keep it for tenyears, then you could get some
tax free or tax, yeah, tax freegrowth.
Jessica Correnti (13:17):
Tax free growth. Yep.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (13:18):
Wow. So anything else on tax pro or tax?
OZ one point o or we can call itOZ OG.
Jessica Correnti (13:27):
OZ OG. OG. I love that.
John Tripolsky (13:29):
Now we need like a rap jingle going on there.
Jessica Correnti (13:32):
It helps with all the numbers and yeah. OG OZ
one point o. So let's the verytop number one tax incentive is
the tax free growth, of course,over a ten year period. I would
argue more than the deferralinto 2027 that the next largest
(13:54):
benefit of the one point oprogram is the potential to
eliminate a portion of whatyou're going to owe in 2027
through the fair market valueprovision in the tax code for
opportunity zones. Simple way toput it, you are allowed to
recognize for your tax purposes,the fair market value of the
(14:17):
investment as of 12/31/2026, orthe amount of your gain less
your basis.
So if you have a fund or you'reinvested in something where they
provide a new value and thevalue is less than your gain,
You're now paying even less inyour taxes come 2027.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (14:40):
That's a great point because and that's a
fear of many people thinkingabout a qualified opportunity
zone fund. Man, I've got a, youknow, $50,000 gain, but I really
only have, for lack of a betterterm, $40,000 of equity or
$40,000 of fair market value. Ipay tax on too much. And,
ultimately, that's I think it'svery fair. No pun intended.
(15:03):
So that's a great benefit. Andthat look that that snapshot's
12/31/2026. Correct? That that'swhen that fair market value
would be assessed.
Jessica Correnti (15:12):
Exactly. So it'll be a a whatever the fair
market value is as of that date.Correct.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (15:17):
Awesome. So if
Jessica Correnti (15:18):
you have a value that's struck in November
2026, as long as it doesn'tchange
John Tripolsky (15:22):
Mhmm.
Jessica Correnti (15:23):
By the end of the year, you're good.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (15:25):
Wow. So I'm gonna move on to to to OZ
two point o. Maybe we'll call itOZ senior, and we got OZ junior,
but I think
John Tripolsky (15:36):
I like the OG one.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (15:37):
Yeah. We're going OG. We're gonna go
OG in two point o. So for twopoint o, doesn't come into play,
you know, until 2027. Gains in01/01/2027 or into the future.
But what are some of the thingsthat, the one big beautiful bill
(15:58):
stated with with withopportunity zone funds because
they were gonna go they're gonnabe gone, basically, if it if
they weren't put into the theact.
Jessica Correnti (16:06):
Yeah. And and frankly, a lot of people I've
been speaking to who are on theadviser side of the business
didn't bother to learn aboutopportunity zones because they
were not permanent. So I'd saythat the the what we should be
celebrating the most with twopoint zero and Obi three is the
fact that opportunity zones arenow permanent, which really
(16:30):
shouldn't be a surprise. It'sbeen the arguably the most
effective piece of taxlegislation in the history of
our nation for both the taxbenefit and the impact in
communities?
Chris Picciurro, CPA (16:44):
I could tell you the impact in
communities are is I mean, youknow, in Nashville, there's an
area called The Gulch that usedto be you know, when we moved
here ten years ago, was, quote,unquote, an up and coming area,
and it's beautiful. There'sareas when we went to Atlanta
for my son's baseballtournament, Buckhead. There are
areas that were opportunities onfunds that look great now. So,
(17:05):
you know, I feel like the it hasit has helped with economic
development of certain areas,job creation, and all that
stuff. So so making it permanentdoes give it a sense of, not
just permanency, legitimacy asfar as this is a strategy that
we can use indefinitely andshould be considered.
(17:27):
Yeah.
Jessica Correnti (17:28):
Just at, Capital Square, we've in the
projects that we've done, wehave seen over a $190,000,000 of
GDP created just from ourprojects in Opportunity Zones.
So we love it from both theimpact and from the benefit
side. So I can definitely sharesome of the benefits that OZ two
(17:48):
point o will have. You know,again, this is really looking
and planning for two yearsahead. This is not something you
can act on today.
One point o is where you'reacting today.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (18:00):
Right.
Jessica Correnti (18:01):
For two point o, you're still gonna get that
ten year of tax free growthbenefit if you hold it for those
ten years. What you get in twopoint zero is a five year
deferral on your tax for yourcapital gain. So you're looking
at a 10% increase in basis for atypical OZ project or a 30%
(18:26):
increase if you're at a ruralopportunity zone fund, which a
lot of speculation about whatrural will be defined as. We'll
find out probably towards theend of the year.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (18:38):
Gotcha. Yeah. And and that's something
that was it was myunderstanding, and and correct
me if I'm wrong, but when theyidentified opportunity zones for
the TCJA or OG or one point o, alot of that was put on the
states or the governors, and alot of that, they went back to
the 2010 census and identifiedareas that you wouldn't think
were, quote, unquote, needing aredevelopment. So it'll be
(19:02):
interesting to see the does whatis designated as an opportunity
zone and what is a ruralopportunity zone. You know?
Or it'll just be really fun tosee. As a tax professional, I I
love seeing that kinda that kindof stuff.
Jessica Correnti (19:16):
And I think it will be interesting to see spots
or, like, outside of justCapitol Square come up with
creative ways to put moneyefficiently to work. You know,
you can't put a apartmentbuilding in the middle of a
cornfield. Right? You need tofind something, you know, be a
little bit more diligent aboutwhat you're investing in for a
(19:37):
two point o.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (19:38):
And not not talking about any specific
funds or anything like that, butwhat are some of the what
activities you're seeing inopportunity zone funds?
Obviously, real estate's big.What kind of what type of real
estate or what what what type ofactivities are you seeing that
in your experience?
Jessica Correnti (19:55):
I've seen a lot of development of
multifamily, some hospitality.Hospitality has been good
because the the zones, right,are typically where they're
trying to drive revenue. Soyou'll think of tourism.
Multifamily, of course, ishousing shortage everywhere. Any
person you ask in America willtell you.
(20:15):
We're seeing businesses. You'reable to invest in businesses for
qualified opportunity zones. Soyou see some gold and things
like that. It really runs thegamut. Some storage.
Yeah.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (20:27):
Wow. And the yeah. I mean, the outlook is
really good on this. Right?Because it because it's you
know?
But we're gonna I think we gottafocus now if you're listening to
this and and in one point o. Andthere's that's that's there's
still opportunity, no punintended there, because even in
(20:48):
you know, let's say you were tohave a capital gain in November
2025. To be able to defer yourtax for almost a year and a half
plus the other step up in basisbenefit you you explained gives
you an extra year and a half toplan. You know? So that's that's
another, that's another factoralso.
So
Jessica Correnti (21:08):
Some capital gains you can time, but some you
can't. So what do you do today?Are you gonna pay all your money
to Uncle Sam, or are you gonnafind a solution? And one point o
is still a very viable solution.And
Chris Picciurro, CPA (21:21):
I have one question, you know, kind of a
final question on that 10 rule.With can you explain that clock?
In other words, does the tenyear start on the day of the
capital gain, the day of the dayof the capital gain, a day of
the day of the investment, thefirst tax year of the
investment, what how does howdoes that work?
Jessica Correnti (21:42):
So when you're investing in a qualified
opportunity zone fund, the fundhas to hold the qualified
investments for ten years fromthe last dollar invested.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (21:52):
Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. So so there's
some advantages of kinda beingearly into a fund. There's some
advantages to being kinda at thetail end of it, depending on
where you're at.
Awesome. Anything else that youthink I might have missed on?
I'm I'm looking at my notes, andand and one thing that I you
know, just a thought as far asfrom a bigger picture with OB
(22:15):
three, you know, we we thoughtthere was potential that capital
the capital gains rate might goback up and it's staying lower,
but the fact that you have shortterm capital gains eligible for
o z funds is very attractivebecause a short term gain could
be a pretty high tax.
Jessica Correnti (22:31):
Yes. And if you think about what has
happened in the market over thelast year, especially or even in
just the crypto market in thelast year, maybe you have Nvidia
positions, this might be areally strong opportunity to
derisk yourself a bit anddiversify.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (22:48):
That's a great point.
Ad Read (22:50):
Well, I we appreciate it. If someone has to get
Chris Picciurro, CPA (22:52):
or want someone wants to get ahold of
you, and what's the best way forthem to reach you?
Jessica Correnti (22:59):
Best email for me is sales@capitalsq.com.
Otherwise, I'm on LinkedIn andalways out and about at these
different conferences andevents, so thank you so much.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (23:10):
Well, thank you. We appreciate it.
This has been amazing. I havebeen working in OZ funds for
many years, and I actually Ilearned a few things today, and,
I know our listeners are gonnabe very happy.
Jessica Correnti (23:22):
Great. And, Chris, you get another a fan.
John Tripolsky (23:24):
Chris, you get another point on the board for
another good guest. Okay. Youhaven't failed yet. So, you
know, we're we're doing goodhere. But this is I mean, so I
know we talked about this, and,you know, I'll wrap this up
really quick.
But as far as for this topic,right, I think now after this
conversation, people have apretty good grasp of where they
stand right now, what these are.Is is there anything specific,
(23:46):
Jessica, that you may have ifthey have specific questions on
this stuff? I mean, obviously,they can reach out to you. They
can connect with you. But isthere are there any resources
that you guys have maybe onlineor a newsletter or anything like
that as well that somebody couldget, you know, kind of an
ongoing support updates withthis stuff?
Jessica Correnti (24:04):
Thousand percent. If you went to
capitalsquare.com, you'd be ableto sign up for the newsletters
and our equity updates. You'llbe able to go to our Opportunity
Zone Learning Center whereyou'll find all of this
information I've provided, somewalk through brochures, videos,
and of course, contactinformation with the other sales
team members at Capital Square.
John Tripolsky (24:24):
Awesome. Perfect. Perfect. Well, as Chris
mentioned, thanks, thanks forjoining us. Thanks for sticking
it out with us.
And, obviously, thank you forshowing up because if like I
said earlier, if you've listenedto our stuff, we didn't scare
you away, so you must have ahave a strong personality kinda
like us.
Jessica Correnti (24:38):
I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks so much,
guys.
John Tripolsky (24:41):
Awesome, Jessica. And Chris, I guess I'll
see you again next week. Sametime. We'll do it again. Sounds
good.
Alright, everybody. Well, thankyou for joining us here on the
teaching tax flow podcast. We'llsee you again next week. Same
day of the week, different date,completely different topic. Have
a good week, everybody.
Disclaimer (25:01):
The content provided is for educational purposes
only. We encourage you to seekpersonalized investment advice
from your financialprofessional. For all tax and
legal advice, please consultyour CPA or attorney. Investment
advisory services are offeredthrough Cabin Advisors, a
registered investment advisor.Securities are offered through
Cabin Securities, a registeredbroker dealer.
The content of this podcast doesnot constitute an offer of
(25:22):
securities. Offerings can onlybe made through an offering
memorandum, and you shouldcarefully examine the risk
factors and other informationcontained in the memorandum.
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Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.