October 7, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode of the Teaching Tax Flow Podcast, hosts Chris Picciurro, CPA, and John Tripolsky welcome Marit Burmood, CPA & EA, to discuss actionable strategies for business owners as the year winds down. From vehicle deductions to timing income and expenses, this episode cuts through online tax myths to deliver real-world guidance on maximizing deductions before year-end.
Marit shares practical insight from years of hands-on experience helping business owners implement proactive tax plans—emphasizing organization, accurate bookkeeping, and collaboration with your tax professional. Together, the trio highlight how cash-basis timing, depreciation, reimbursable plans, and entity structure play critical roles in shaping your 4th-quarter tax outcomes.
Key Takeaways
• Get your books in order — profit & loss, balance sheet, payroll, and distributions must be accurate before planning.
• Understand that a deduction ≠ a tax-free purchase. A $100K vehicle deduction doesn’t eliminate $100K in taxes.
• Avoid depreciation traps — bonus depreciation and vehicle write-offs can cause painful recapture if sold too soon.
• Use the cash-basis “twelve-month rule” to prepay eligible expenses or defer income strategically.
• Set up an accountable plan for home-office, mileage, and reimbursements before year-end.
• Track all subcontractor payments and W-9s now—don’t scramble during 1099 season.
• Above all: buy only what you need—don’t let the tax tail wag the dog.
Notable Quotes
• “Buying a vehicle might be good, but it’s not a tax plan.” – Chris Picciurro
• “A $100K deduction doesn’t mean you’re saving $100K in taxes.” – Marit Burmood
• “Cash flow and tax flow are different.” – Chris Picciurro
• “Don’t buy it if you don’t need it—be logical, not emotional.” – Marit Burmood
Resources
• Teaching Tax Flow Website
• Defeating Taxes Community
Episode Sponsor:
Legacy Lock
Book a 30-minute complimentary discovery session at teachingtaxflow.com/legacy
(Mention Teaching Tax Flow for special pricing)
- (03:09) - Entrepreneurial Tax Strategies for Business Owners in October
- (08:56) - Understanding Tax Misconceptions and Effective Business Financial Planning
- (16:50) - Understanding Depreciation Recapture and Tax Implications for Businesses
- (21:19) - Tax Strategies for Small Businesses and Real Estate Investments
- (26:50) - Tax Strategies for S Corp and Small Business Owners
- (35:45) - Effective Tax Planning Through Communication and Organization
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Tripolsky (00:02):
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the Teaching
Tax Flow podcast episode 156today. We are gonna look at
those fourth quarter taxplanning strategies and tips and
some do nots for businessowners. But before we do that
and you get to meet ourfantastic guests, first time on
this show, by the way, let'stake a brief moment and thank
our episode sponsor.
Ad Read (00:26):
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John Tripolsky (00:49):
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the teaching tax
Flow podcast. So as we alwaystry to bring you some very
interesting topics, but what'smore important than that here is
now you get to hear a greattopic from somebody else besides
Chris or myself. We're gonna putthis topic really into, we'll
say, real life because you getto hear from somebody else who's
working with clients on this allthe time. As you can see in the
(01:12):
title, the show notes,everywhere you've probably been
directed to this episode from,we're gonna talk about the
fourth quarter tax planning forsmall businesses.
And I have to I have to make ajoke here, Chris, because we're
talking about fourth quarter.And, you know, if it was up to
me being a hockey guy, can wejust, like, readdress this and
maybe call, like, the thirdperiod of the year and, like,
(01:33):
totally blow everything up that,you know, everybody abides by in
a in a calendar year with youguys? Or
Chris Picciurro, CPA (01:38):
We could, but then we would have to put
this out the September anddivide the year into thirds
instead of quarters like mostnormal people do.
John Tripolsky (01:47):
Yeah. Let's not do that. That would a lot good.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (01:49):
We love hockey people anyway, even if
they're those screw loose hereand there. That's alright.
That's alright.
John Tripolsky (01:56):
I'll take it. But let's bring it all together.
Let's talk about this. Right?Because we always talk about tax
planning.
Right? And I feel like we kindahit this from two different
angles, maybe three. Sometimes Ifeel like we just dive right
into it, and we start kind ofgetting into the weeds,
depending on the topic thatwe're getting into specifically.
But then other times, I feellike we're kind of peppering
this in because people have noidea what it is. Right?
(02:18):
We always talk about, you know,oh, you do, as the taxpayer,
have the ability to, quote,unquote, own your relationship
with the IRS, own the tax billyou get. It's not a one way
street here. It's to call taxtax planning. But we usually
it's just me and you banteringback and forth. So I look
forward
Chris Picciurro, CPA (02:34):
to this. Yeah. I'm always excited when I
get to get to have a guest onthat I've met through our
private CPA practice, and weknow one of the three laws of
tax planning is that your taxreturn is a verb and not a noun.
That means it's not somethingyou do. It shouldn't be
something you do or get at theend of the year.
It's something that should behappening throughout the year.
Well, this last summer, throughworking with, the National
(02:59):
Association of TaxProfessionals, I had the honor
of meeting Marit Burmoud, andshe is an amazing speaker. She
did a great job at Taxposium, bythe way. She has her own tax
practice. She's not only a CPA,but an enrolled agent, and she
really focuses on tax planningand strategy.
And and like like you mentioned,we want to bring more voices in
(03:21):
a tax teaching tax flow. And aswe enter this fourth quarter, we
thought we I would love to haveher on as a guest to talk about
what business owners should bethinking about once that once
that calendar hits October. So,Marit, welcome to the Teaching
Tax Flow podcast, and how areyou doing today?
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (03:42):
I'm so glad to be here in the ninth
inning. I actually am not abaseball fan, but you know, that
was my that was my ninth inning.Yeah. I'm really excited to be
here. I do love tax planning.
You've got me. For quite a fewyears, I only did compliance
based tax and I was literallygonna quit because it was so
(04:05):
unfulfilling and so frustratingto get piles of documents in
January through April and notbeing able to assist my clients
because the year was closed andI can't turn back time and
change things. So once I foundtax planning and was able to
implement that into my practice,not only is it more fulfilling
(04:27):
for me as a professional to beable to act as a partner and
collaborate with the clients,but also in general, like you
said, we're not now just beingreactive, we're being proactive.
So excited to be here. Happy toshare some tips and yeah.
Thanks for having me.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (04:43):
Well, can you give us a little bit of
history how you got into thisbusiness? A little bit of maybe
about your practice and whereyou reside?
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (04:52):
Sure. I don't wanna spend too long on it
because we got a lot of thingsthat we need to help the
listeners with. We gotta getthem all those good tax planning
tips. But I, reside in Utah. Ilike you said, I'm a CPA.
I'm an enrolled agent. So I'vehad my tax and accounting
practice for I don't wanna datemyself, but over ten years. I
started when I was 12. Justkidding. So, yeah, I have my tax
(05:17):
practice.
I specialize in tax planning. Alot of my clients are high net
worth, but I do also havebusiness owners in all niches
making all different types ofmoney. And really a lot of the
strategies are the same, justkind of on a smaller number
scale. So
Chris Picciurro, CPA (05:35):
Right. Yeah. And, actually, for those
more moderate income taxpayers,a $5,000 savings could be a
significant amount of theirdisposable net income and
especially at the at the end ofthe year. So that could be more
impactful. But, no, don't worry.
I've I've a couple weeks agonow, I had the pleasure going
out to Minnesota in for anevent, and I said said, you know
(05:58):
what's cool? I've been doingthis for twenty two years, a
firm owner, but I'm a DoogieHowser. You might be thinking to
yourself, gosh. She's look looksyoung. I'm a Doogie Howser of
tax.
So I started when I was 10, thenI thought, but if you know who
Doogie Howser is, then youreally know how old I am. So I I
kinda got in trouble my there.Shoot.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (06:16):
You almost had it.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (06:17):
You almost know. Had But well It happens.
Yeah. So so thinking about as asyou said, you have a lot of
experience working with businessowners. You're what I like that
about what by you and some ofthe things you do with your
practices, many taxprofessionals are tax
preparation people that kindagrew into a tax practice, which
(06:40):
is great.
But then I meet some taxprofessionals that I feel have
more of an entrepreneurialmindset, and that that's how I
feel about you, and it's a bigcompliment. And I actually feel
that that skill or that mindsetreally helps tax professionals
relate to business owners andgive them practical advice. So
what what are some of the thingsyou're talking to your clients
(07:02):
about? And I know you speak toother tax professionals as we
enter, you know, October. We'renot right at the deadline.
Right? We're not it's notDecember, but also we need to
there are also lead time when itcomes to implementing
strategies.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (07:16):
Yeah. To you know, you're totally right.
I was talking about this withsomeone the other day, and not
all tax professionals are goodbusiness owners for themselves.
We can advise other people butthere are a certain type of tax
professional that's also anentrepreneur and that's
definitely me. I've had theentrepreneurial spirit since I
(07:39):
was like 14 and my dad told me,hey, my stepdad said, I'll give
you $20 to mow an edge.
And so I contracted out the boyacross the street for 10 to mow
an edge. And then he was like,well, I I don't wanna give you
the money because you didn't doit, but also it got done. So,
you know, so I've been havingcontract labor and all of that
(08:01):
for since I can remember havingthose little side side
businesses.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (08:05):
I love it. So I hopefully, you wish to give
it $10.90. And maybe it wasunder the threshold at $10 a
week,
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (08:10):
fifty weeks. Was thinking about that.
Yeah.
John Tripolsky (08:12):
And then you get into child labor laws, which is
a whole another thing.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (08:15):
What's the statute of limitations? Or you
gotta unfile ten ninety nine n ec. Actually, that didn't exist
then.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (08:21):
This you're going down the wrong
rabbit hole. K? This is we gottasave this for the tax pro, the
tax pro podcast.
John Tripolsky (08:28):
So yes.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (08:29):
So we I was gonna say, so you asked me,
what do I kinda talk to myclients about? And leading into
that whole thing of being anentrepreneur myself, I know that
as I'm leading my clients, Ialso need to be watching out for
my own income, my own taxplanning and I need to do what I
(08:50):
tell every client to do. Andit's kind of what I wanna start
out with today, which is getyour books in order. You need to
have your profit and loss ready.You need to have your balance
sheet updated.
You need to know how manydistributions you've taken,
especially if you're filing asan s corp. You need to be
looking at the payroll reportspulling those and seeing how
(09:12):
much have I already paid intaxes through payroll. And this
is something that when I had aclient come to me the other day,
I saw him out and about and hesaid, do I need to buy a new
trailer for my business? Youknow, Should I do that? And I
was like, I have no idea becausehe's not an advisory client.
I don't have access to his booksyear round. And so first and
(09:33):
foremost, everybody, if youdon't have it, you need to
gather your information, whichis a lot of the time I think
what stops people from evenbeginning to tax plan because
there's work on you as thebusiness owner upfront to get
everything that you needgathered so then you can move
forward to estimate how much youowe and and start making plans.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (09:55):
Right. You you nailed it. The first step of
tax a personalized tax plan,even before you start doing the
plan, is having a taxprojection. That doesn't mean it
has to be We have to figure outwhat your marginal tax rate is
and where you stand. And I I gethow I kinda shook my head for
those who watched on YouTubewhen you said the vehicle.
Like, I don't know how manytimes I wanna stress that buying
(10:18):
a vehicle might be a good thing,but it's not a tax plan. Like,
it's just a car now or a truckthat depreciated once you rolled
it off the lot. There might be atax deduction for it
immediately, but there are otherimplications. And, you know,
it's kind of a a lazy tax planto just go buy a bunch of
trucks. You know?
But that's that but you nailedit. So you talked and said, hey.
(10:39):
You we gotta figure out whereyou're at. And
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (10:42):
Gotta figure out where you're at. And
there's things that I think thatclients don't really think as
they're gathering information.Did you have a large capital
gain? Were you trading stocks aswell? You kinda need to look at
all aspects of your life.
Obviously, we're talking tobusiness owners here, but they
are human beings also and theymight be trading all night long
(11:03):
and they've got capital gains ormaybe they have rental
properties, maybe they haveother things. So it's really,
and you're gonna have to do itanyway in April. And if you
start now and you startgathering everything and trying
to figure out where you're at,it's gonna make it less painful
in April anyway, and it's gonnagive your tax pro a head start
in terms of getting your taxesdone efficiently.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (11:27):
I guess. What what are what are some of
the misconceptions commonmisconceptions you see that
business owners or myths,business owners have when it
comes to taxes.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (11:41):
So you know what was one that popped in
my head when you were talkingabout the vehicle is they think
if they spend a $100,000 on avehicle and they can bonus
depreciate it, they're gonna geta $100,000 off their taxes. So a
tax deduction is not always ait's not a dollar for dollar
reduction in the taxes that theyowe. And I think that's for sure
(12:05):
a big misconception andsomething that is a painful,
it's a pain point when you'retalking to clients and you're
trying to explain to them,you're not getting a $100,000
off. It's based on your taxrate. This is a reduction in
your income that is thenmultiplied and I'll do
calculations with theireffective tax rate to kind of
give them an idea.
(12:25):
But I think that's somethingthat we could I always wanna
spread the word to regularbusiness owners because it will
go drop a lot of money like a$100,000 on a depreciating
vehicle, and then they're veryunpleasantly surprised when they
find out it only saved them,like, $30,000.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (12:41):
Right. It's it is so, yeah, the tax tax
deduction and tax credit arecompletely different things, and
tax credits could be refundableor nonrefundable. I found a lot
of what we one of our otherroles of tax planning is tax
flow and cash flow aredifferent. What that means is
that if you were to buy a$100,000 vehicle and you put
down 20,000 or you paid cash,the deduction is the same. Do
(13:05):
you ever run into something likethat misconception?
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (13:09):
Yeah. Of course. People it's the same if
they wanna finance it versuspaying cash. And so they just
they're confused on on whetherif they finance it, can they
take the full deduction? Do Ineed to pay cash?
And you are right when we'retalking about cash flow,
depending on the business needs,it can be advantageous for them
(13:30):
to finance the vehicle or thepiece of equipment so that they
have that cash flow inside ofthe business that they can
continue to move and recirculatein order to continue expanding
and scaling. And then yes, theycan take the full deduction, but
you move on to the nextmisconception or the next caveat
that they're not thinking aboutthat now they have a liability
(13:53):
on the books and a loan thatthey're gonna have to pay for
say five years and that's gonnacontinue to take cash out. So
they kinda it's a lot of there'sa lot of things on the internet
from the big tax influencersthat talk a lot about, get the
Eurus. Do you know what a Eurusis, John? You're a you're a man.
You probably car guy. Yeah. Buythe Eurus, and and you'll save
(14:14):
$300,000, and then now they'vegot a $300,000 liability on the
books. It's pretty painful.
John Tripolsky (14:20):
An Or you $8,000 break job that you that that's a
whole
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (14:23):
new thing. Yeah. That's true. The
maintenance on those things.
John Tripolsky (14:26):
What you guys are talking about here too, it's
it's almost and it drives menuts now and has for a very,
very long time when you hearsomebody that maybe, you know,
they're gonna take the plunge.They're like, hey. I'm I'm gonna
go. I'm gonna start thisbusiness on my own. You know,
whatever's causing it.
And they're so excited about it.And they're they're so excited
because, a, they think they'regonna have all this freedom,
which, you know, here, I hate tobe the boohoo negative Nancy.
(14:48):
Usually, when you start abusiness, you don't any more
freedom for a long time. It'susually a lot harder. Different
topic.
But then they're like, it'sgreat because I get to write off
so much stuff, and it so it'sfree. It's like, absolutely not.
Who whoever told you that, a awrite off or expensing something
does not mean that it is free.If anything, it is discounted
(15:10):
depending on, you know, whatyour marginal tax rate is. Like,
it's not it's it's a movingtarget, if you will, but I feel
like more people need to knowthat.
Right? So how many people do youhave probably come to you and
they're like, oh, yeah. Tookcare of it. The business got it.
It's all good.
It's like Yeah.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (15:25):
No. And then they say, but I don't have
any money in my business bankaccount. Why do I have to pay
all these taxes? And I say, theIRS doesn't care what you have
in your bank account, they carewhat's on your profit and loss
and you're showing a profit. SoI'm sorry that you spent it all
but now it's time to pay thepiper.
So that's true cash flow. I likethat you guys teach cash flow
(15:47):
versus tax flow because they'retwo very different things, and
they are so important tounderstand how they differ and
how they work together and howyou can work them together.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (15:57):
And that's where you you know, it's hard to
you nailed it. It's hard forbusiness owners to understand,
especially, I feel like soleproprietors because they don't
really look at their balancesheet like maybe a corp or an s
corp as much to understand, youknow, servicing debt is not a
deduction. Doesn't mean youshouldn't service a debt or you
don't have to. But we've runinto situations we have where we
(16:18):
work with people that buy booksof business profession like
insurance agencies, and you runinto the opposite problem. Hey.
We're gonna we're gonna pay thismake this payment over 5 years,
but they don't realize they thevast majority of what they're
buying is a fifteen year asset.It's goodwill. It's it's it's
something that so now it's theopposite problem. More cash is
(16:39):
going out than you get deductionfor. And like you mentioned, you
might get that big deductionyear one, but you're two to
five.
You're paying on that vehiclewith no deduction, and here's
what could happen. What happensI've had this one, and and I'm
well, I bought a vehicle for a$100. I took the $100,000
(17:01):
deduction. I owe 60 on it. Mywife hates it.
It doesn't fit my garage. So I'mgonna trade it in. Don't worry.
They gave me the $60 I owed onit so I don't have to pay tax on
anything. And that's a bigmisconception also.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (17:16):
Yeah. Definitely. Especially because
now they've kind of over theyears, they've gone back and
forth in terms of trade ins forbusiness vehicles. But
currently, they are looking attrade ins as an actual sale. And
I knew what you were getting at.
I knew you were getting at thedepreciation recapture before
you even before you even yousaid, okay. Here's the other
(17:37):
thing. And I thought, I knowwhat's coming because this is
something that you as a businessowner need to be aware of this
depreciation recapture recapturebecause because probably 75% of
tax professionals, I feel likethey don't warn their clients.
And so they're very happy golucky to look like the good guy
in the year of and say, yeah,we're gonna take this $100,000
(18:00):
deduction and it's gonna begreat. And the client has
absolutely no idea that theyneed to hold onto that vehicle
because they've now acceleratedthe depreciation.
So instead of spreading it outover say a life of five years,
they've taken that full fiveyears upfront and now they need
to hang on to it for that amountof time or they're gonna have to
(18:21):
pay back the deduction that theytook. I just had a client this
year, I got him in the middle ofthe year, but he had his
previous tax preparer had put anAirstream trailer on his books,
which he has a business where Icould see the trailer. Okay, all
right, It's a business Airstreamtrailer, sure. But then he
(18:42):
decided to I think he sold it.He didn't trade it in, but now
he has And it was the very nextyear he sold, he traded No, he
sold that $100,000 trailer,which I wasn't you know, working
with him at the time.
I'm looking backwards now. We'realways talking about proactive.
I now have his documentsproactively looking back, and
(19:03):
now we have a $100,000 additionto his income, an additional
recapture. It is painful, and heno idea. He had no idea when he
committed to taking thatdeduction that he had
obligations on his side or atleast be aware of what would
happen if he decided he wasgonna sell.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (19:23):
Yes. And there there could be phantom.
Now at least we have a 100%bonus depreciation moving
forward because what wouldhappen sometimes, and you've
probably seen this where theytraded the vehicle in. There's
no, like, I can kinda exchangefor vehicles anymore. They
bought another vehicle of aboutmaybe higher value, so they
might be able to save theirthere.
But when bonus depreciation wentto 60% and it was gonna be 40
(19:47):
and you were you had the full ofrecapture I know we're getting
into the weeds a little, but thepoint is when you're making
fixed asset purchases, talk toyour tax professional first.
And, also, it's not always bestto just deduct the entire amount
year one. Some I've seen itwhere this one drives me crazy
where people will deduct theentire amount year one and
(20:09):
actually create, like, an NOL ornet operating loss or or move
people into low marginal taxbracket instead of saving some
of those deductions.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (20:20):
Yeah, for sure. I've seen that too.
And I actually, as a taxprofessional, when I see these
things as I'm working oneverything, I will make the
suggestion that they don'taccelerate sometimes because if
they're not accelerating, ifthey don't need to accelerate
it, then it might be moreadvantageous for them to just,
you know, do a different methodof depreciation so that they can
(20:41):
have an additional deductionnext year. So you're right. It
it can get especially when itcomes to depreciation, it's kind
of a, point of contention for mewhen I see the influencers on
the internet just so so quick totell everybody that a 100 and I
was gonna say it's a valuabletax planning strategy.
(21:04):
I had it on my list to talkabout, but it's something that,
you know, you wanna use alongwith a professional that
actually understandsdepreciation and can help you
because it's one of the mostcomplicated areas, I think.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (21:18):
I agree. I agree. What other what other
things are on your your favoritelist for tax moves on the last
quarter?
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (21:27):
You know what I think? So a lot of these
small businesses are cash based.They're filing on the cash
basis. And so I do like a littlebit of playing around if we can
with say prepaying expenseswithin the twelve month rule. So
if they have expenses they canprepay that give them a benefit
(21:47):
for the next twelve months andthey have the cash flow to go
ahead and do that.
Those are always kind of goodones to just go through. Okay,
what are you What's a newsubscription that you're signing
up for for the next year? Do youhave an insurance policy that's
gonna give you another year ofbenefit? Do you, if you have the
cash flow and you're gonna needit anyway, let's kind of get all
(22:10):
of those expenses into thisyear. And then the same can go
with income if you have abusiness where maybe you don't
need to invoice immediately,you're on the cash basis, so
you're not claiming income asit's earned, you're claiming it
as when the cash is received.
So I think that's a really goodtip that a lot of business
owners, they get blinded bythese really flashy, colorful,
(22:33):
right off a Lamborghini Uruswhen they could probably, you
know, get the same amount ofexpenses if they were to look at
maybe prepaying options or theywere looking at deferring some
of that revenue into the nextcalendar year. So
Chris Picciurro, CPA: Absolutely. Especially if you're (22:47):
undefined
in the trades or let's say youhave that right at the end of
the year, you have theopportunity to, you know, bill
someone, but you could, youknow, you could bill them in the
January, and and it just Yeah.Maybe it's
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (23:02):
Don't just leave the check-in the
mailbox, though because you youguys don't know about
constructive receipt but but alot of tax pros do and
technically if you if you haveaccess to the cash, you have
access to the income you'resupposed to claim it. So I did
have a client who thought he wasvery slick because he'd be like,
well, I'm gonna go out of townwith my family for Christmas and
(23:23):
I'm not gonna check the mail.And I'm like, gosh. You had that
I mean, really just don't billthem. Don't invoice them until
the next year.
Oh, I hear it It's not justpretend the cash doesn't exist.
That's not gonna work.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (23:35):
They love saying, isn't it kinda odd there
aren't any deposits fromDecember 10 to the thirty first?
But January 2, there's a hugelump sum. Oh, that's kinda
crazy. But I love that idea oftiming. You know, we can we can,
within the rules, and ethically,time our deductions, time our
income potentially.
I I mean, that's that's smart.And and you gotta look at where
(23:57):
you're at, like you said, at thevery beginning. Look at where
you're at year to date,determine. Or do you feel like
the next year you know, youmight work with a business owner
that says, wow. Well, next year,know I'm buying x amount of
computers or, actually, we'regonna be buying our own office
building and have a lot ofdeductions there.
So maybe I might wanna notexpense things this year. It
(24:19):
just just depends.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (24:20):
Yeah. And and, you know, you said you
said something that kinda got myhead going to. This is something
the business owners woulddefinitely wanna work with a
very knowledgeable accountant.But let's say you really are
planning on buying an officebuilding in the future, there
might be an option for you toimplement the self rental
strategy where you can groupyour rental with your business
(24:46):
operations. It's a specialgrouping election and then they
could do a cost segregation.
There's a big one there that'skind of for say a higher net
worth business that would belooking to purchase their own
office building. But it's kindof this thing where technically,
suppose you could do it in thefourth quarter because if you
(25:07):
group it in with your businessoperations, you're not so
pressed for materialparticipation. It's already
included in with your businessoperations. So it's something
that definitely won't apply toeverybody. But if you are a
business owner out there andyou're thinking that could be
me, I do want a building and Iand I really need to expand.
I've been wanting to anyway.Maybe talk to your tax
(25:28):
professional about doing theself rental strategy with the
grouping election. It could fitfor you. But, again, there's
other caveats that we couldn'tcover in this podcast that you
would wanna be aware of becausethe way the income is treated
moving forward and losses aredifferent than a regular rental.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (25:45):
So Correct. Correct. And and it
could be prudent justfinancially to own your own
building as well.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (25:51):
Right. Yeah.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (25:53):
What are some of the other things that
you're thinking about that thatthat people need to focus on as
we enter the wow. The preholiday season. I don't know.
It's yours flying by right now.So
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (26:07):
Well, if you are an owner of an s corp
and you have not been doing anaccountable plan like most s
corp owners do not unless theyhave a really good accountant
that gets after them, I wouldsuggest that you get together
those reimbursable expenses thatyou have that contract with the
(26:27):
company that they're going toreimburse you as an employee.
Technically you want thesereimbursements coming through
every month and you want them tobe organized. But let's just say
you haven't jumped on that boatyet but you're going to, you're
gonna get organized moving fromhere on out. Well that, know,
because those S Corp owners willsay, well, I want a home office
deduction and I want this and myaccountant won't let me have it.
(26:50):
You can have it, but you need tosubmit it the right way through
an accountable plan.
If you're a Schedule C owner,you could also do the same
thing. So if you haven't beentracking your mileage, let's get
that mileage log recreated. Iuse MileIQ for my mileage and I
classify all of my drives.There's a lot I think of missing
(27:12):
expenses and deductions that thebusiness owners can find. But,
again, they need to gather it.
They need to gather thatinformation for the home office.
They need to gather thatmileage, and it will, you know,
it will result in a gooddeduction. And it's much better
to get it done now than to tryto be gathering it all at tax
time, and it will help you planand find out what else you need
(27:35):
to do in order to to lower yourincome.
Chris Picciurro, CPA: Absolutely. We we have, I ran (27:38):
undefined
into a new new client in ourprivate practice who is in the
professional service business,has a legit home office in an
affluent area in a major city,and it was deemed that that a
home office somewhere would beabout $800 a month for just like
a WeWork or Regis. So that's a$10,000. He's an s corp. And the
(28:01):
other accountant was for somereason, they said, oh, you don't
you know, there's no they didn'tunderstand the accountable plan.
And his tax rate hits it's abouta $3,500 tax reduction, so he
can he can pay himself under anaccountable plan, you know, and
and about $10,000 a year in hiscase. So, yeah, if you have same
thing with a c corp, you canhave an accountable plan. So I
(28:22):
think being organized is one ofyour best attributes as a
taxpayer.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (28:27):
Yeah. And also really rolling up your
sleeves and and finding thoseexpenses, keeping things
separate because a lot of peoplemiss expenses because I guess
they're not organized butthey're also co mingling like
crazy. We've got even peoplewith S corps, they're just not,
(28:48):
they don't have a designatedbusiness card. They're not
separating out. I go to Costcoand I literally have a business
order that I pay with mybusiness card and then I have my
family order.
The more that you can do forthat, I think that business
owners have the misconceptionthat it's annoying and my
accountants just, they'regetting after me and they want
(29:09):
the receipts, but really we doit all for you. We don't, I
mean, I certainly don't likebeing the bad guy that's out
there having to drop huge taxbills, feeling like I'm fighting
with my clients. I wanna be yourally, but I'm also not a miracle
worker. I can't go with you toCostco and tell you to split
your purchases. So really beingcognizant of your business
(29:31):
expenses and keeping themseparate, treating your business
as a separate entity fromyourself.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (29:37):
I agree. Yeah. You wanna especially if
you're, you know, an s corp,that's that's huge. Yeah. What
you know?
And then kinda in the same veinas s corp, making sure that you
are taking some type ofreasonable compensation is
important. But that's, like youknow, it's kinda more
compliance. I would look at theyou know, if people are
interested in retirement plancontributions, small business
(29:59):
owners, There's somewhat of amisconception that those have to
be done before the end of theyear. I mean, if they're not all
of them have to be, so that'sanother thing. But, you know,
there are some things that haveto get done in the fourth
quarter.
Like you said, the reimbursableplan, is is very important, you
know, for variety of things forthe because this is what we run
(30:22):
into, especially I mean, thestandard mileage deduction is
pretty favorable right now.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (30:26):
Yes. Especially if
Chris Picciurro, CPA (30:27):
we have, like, a hybrid vehicle or an EV
and goes so so if you're not thebest and or if you and you wanna
avoid that depreciationrecapture or some of those
pitfalls that we talked about,do having a reimbursable plan if
an s corp for your mileageswould be a good idea. What are
(30:47):
any other things that you wannamake sure people are aware of?
And and and should they waittill, like, know, December 31 at
midnight to be contacting theiraccountant about okay.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (30:57):
Yeah. I think don't don't wait that
long. Definitely don't wait thatlong. Another one I kinda wanted
to talk about, I think, issomething, again, is kind of one
of those flashy things, but whendone properly is really if
you're already paying a familymember or a boyfriend or a
(31:18):
girlfriend to help you in yourbusiness, I have a lot of young
clients that are contentcreators, for example, and they
will have a boyfriend or agirlfriend who literally does
everything. He helps me film, heedits all of my videos, he does
all this stuff, but they're nottrying to shift any of that
income over.
(31:38):
There might be people thatyou're already paying to help
you in your business, but you'renot actually giving them a
$10.99. You're not getting a wnine. You're not doing the
things that you need to do towrite it off as an expense.
That's sometimes really bigmissing deductions, especially
with younger clients who are inmore artistic industries. Or I
(31:59):
have another client and shebuilds she builds little crafts,
candles, and things like that.
And she'll have people that comeover and help her build them and
they'll have candle buildingparties. And then she'll pay
them and she'll be like, I gaveso and so $500 and they're
helping me and I gave so and so$700 Well, in order to write
that off and you can write thatoff, we need to get the w nines.
(32:21):
It's very important and get thatinformation. You should be
getting the w nines before youpay the person so that you can
then send them a $10.99. Butincome shifting when it's a
valid income shifting strategy,can also be very helpful.
A lot of people reallyespecially in small businesses.
Right? Like we wanna hook up ourfamily members and our friends,
(32:42):
but you can't just pay them andthen you don't get to take it as
an expense and they don't haveto take it as income. You can if
you want to, but it's certainlynot gonna help you with tax
planning to do it that way. Andso I I sometimes see areas
where, you know, they couldimprove a little bit in that
instead of just giving handoutsto everybody.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (33:01):
Well, you may I mean, you just mentioned
something that's very importantas far as, yes, being organized
and getting deductions and howand if you are paying
subcontractors, this might notseem like tax planning, but,
ultimately, it is. Make sure nowyour best practice is to make
sure you have a w nine. W nineform is a form that someone
independent contractor gives tosomeone paying them to to share
(33:24):
with them how they are taxed andwhat their tax information is if
the ten ninety nine is it shouldbe issued. But having those on
file instead of scramblingaround in January, February
after you've already paidsomebody and that person might
not be willing to give you thatinformation, and now you've got
a now you've kinda have a acompliance issue, is something
(33:45):
that especially for smallerbusiness owners that they're the
they're the, the maintenanceteam. They are the, you know,
the banker.
They are doing so much for theirbusiness, and they don't have
the you know, they just don'thave a team yet to to kinda keep
them in check and and make sureall those checks and balances
(34:05):
are are done. A lot of timesthey're scrambling around to get
a job done and paying peopleoutside their truck and be like,
okay. And, yeah, that could bestressful.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (34:14):
And they might not even be tracking it. I
don't know. I think I gave thisguy $500 to come help me do this
real fast or I mean, you wannatrack that. That can add up to a
lot.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (34:24):
Mhmm. Absolutely. Well, we appreciate
it. This has been great. Do youhave any final, little tidbit
for for for, that that businessowner?
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (34:41):
Sure. I can think of a good one.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (34:43):
Oh, thank you.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (34:44):
Yeah. I gotta I gotta I I have a final
tidbit besides me harping on youto get organized and get going
now because you can listen tothis podcast and then you're
gonna put it off until December31 and don't do that. But also
remember that don't buy it ifyou don't need it. Like, the
(35:05):
whole premise of the theoriesbehind what these guys are
teaching is all about managingyour cash flow with your tax
flow. And let's not get socaught up in creating a
deduction and I need a taxexpense and I'm writing it all
off that you're sinking your ownshit because yes, you wanna make
sure you're always proactivelytax planning, but you don't
(35:26):
wanna go buy a bunch of stuffthat you don't need just to get
a discount on your tax bill.
So that would be my final adviceis be smart about it. Don't let
your emotions make you get crazybecause sometimes people get
real crazy around this time ofyear, and we need to keep our
heads on straight. We need totackle this with a logical
mindset.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (35:45):
That is great advice.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (35:46):
That good? Don't let Yeah. Okay.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (35:47):
Don't let that text tell wag the dog, as
they say.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (35:50):
Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah. Exactly.
John Tripolsky (35:51):
That's awesome. And and and honestly, Berene, I
think one of the coolest thingsabout what you said a little bit
earlier on, right, when we'retalking about all this stuff.
Right? Like, there's so manypeople, and this is not a dig at
TikTok specifically, butsometimes they call, you know,
the TikTok diploma on how you dothings really quick. Right?
Mhmm. It's it's again, peopleare saying these strategies,
(36:12):
these tips, but they're notgiving you the whole story.
Right? So probably the bestadvice is there's so much stuff
out there. Just making sureyou're connecting with somebody.
But then you gave the example.Right? Like, you're renting. You
might wanna buy an office. It itcomes down to communication, the
relationship with your taxprofessional.
They're also not a mind readeror a wizard or a warlock,
whatever it is that makes thingshappen. If you don't tell them
(36:33):
that you're thinking aboutbuying an office, they might not
know that's on the horizon.Right? And you might have to do
things differently today that'llimpact yours down the road. So
it all comes down to that.
Right? Just communication,organization
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (36:45):
Yes.
John Tripolsky (36:46):
And the rest is, you know, whoever you're working
with.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (36:48):
Harmony. Oh, that's a great Harmony.
John Tripolsky (36:51):
End it. End with harmony. We shall sing together
like innocent anyways. We won'tdo that.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (36:56):
We won't
John Tripolsky (36:57):
we don't wanna lose subscribers.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (36:58):
Yeah. At least from
Chris Picciurro, CPA (36:59):
me and
John Tripolsky (36:59):
Chris standpoint.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (37:01):
I I don't have a voice that would
keep subscribers either. So
John Tripolsky (37:04):
We could just go to a black screen and just, you
know, add some, yeah, somegenerative stuff in there.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (37:09):
Perfect.
John Tripolsky (37:09):
But thank you for joining us on this, Chris.
As always, I mean, I I lovekinda being a fly in the wall,
listening to these conversationsa little bit as well. But I know
we have more of the stuff comingup. So I look forward to that as
always. Again, great, greattopic here.
We're gonna put, really, a bunchof contact information at the
bottom of this in the show noteshere depending on where you're
listening to. Reach out toanybody else anybody on our
(37:30):
team. Marin, obviously, always,we appreciate your time. So
please, everybody feel free toconnect with her as well too.
And let's just keep this going.
And if anything, if anybodytakes anything from this, let's
just make it more known that taxplanning is a thing. Right? And
and people can do this, andthere's a lot of power to it as
long as you're building up thatteam with some knowledgeable
people knowledgeable around you.So on that note, we'll see
(37:53):
everybody back here again nextweek on the teaching tax flow
podcast. Same day of the week,completely different date, and
somewhat related topic.
So have a great week, everybody.
Disclaimer (38:07):
The content provided is for educational purposes
only. We encourage you to seekpersonalized investment advice
from your financialprofessional. For all tax and
legal advice, please consultyour CPA or attorney. Investment
advisory services are offeredthrough Cabin Advisors, a
registered investment advisor.Securities are offered through
Cabin Securities, a registeredbroker dealer. The content of
this podcast does not constitutean offer of securities.
(38:29):
Offerings can only be madethrough an offering memorandum,
and you should carefully examinethe risk factors and other
information contained in thememorandum.
Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the Teaching
Tax Flow podcast episode 156today. We are gonna look at
those fourth quarter taxplanning strategies and tips and
some do nots for businessowners. But before we do that
and you get to meet ourfantastic guests, first time on
this show, by the way, let'stake a brief moment and thank
our episode sponsor.
Ad Read (00:26):
This podcast is brought to you by Legacy Lock. If you
are new to estate planning orsimply need to review your
current plan, Legacy Lock makesit as easy as pie. Legacy Lock
is a unique platform thatenables you to easily complete
your attorney drafted documentsconveniently from the comfort of
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simply visitingteachingtaxflow.com/legacy.
John Tripolsky (00:49):
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the teaching tax
Flow podcast. So as we alwaystry to bring you some very
interesting topics, but what'smore important than that here is
now you get to hear a greattopic from somebody else besides
Chris or myself. We're gonna putthis topic really into, we'll
say, real life because you getto hear from somebody else who's
working with clients on this allthe time. As you can see in the
(01:12):
title, the show notes,everywhere you've probably been
directed to this episode from,we're gonna talk about the
fourth quarter tax planning forsmall businesses.
And I have to I have to make ajoke here, Chris, because we're
talking about fourth quarter.And, you know, if it was up to
me being a hockey guy, can wejust, like, readdress this and
maybe call, like, the thirdperiod of the year and, like,
(01:33):
totally blow everything up that,you know, everybody abides by in
a in a calendar year with youguys? Or
Chris Picciurro, CPA (01:38):
We could, but then we would have to put
this out the September anddivide the year into thirds
instead of quarters like mostnormal people do.
John Tripolsky (01:47):
Yeah. Let's not do that. That would a lot good.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (01:49):
We love hockey people anyway, even if
they're those screw loose hereand there. That's alright.
That's alright.
John Tripolsky (01:56):
I'll take it. But let's bring it all together.
Let's talk about this. Right?Because we always talk about tax
planning.
Right? And I feel like we kindahit this from two different
angles, maybe three. Sometimes Ifeel like we just dive right
into it, and we start kind ofgetting into the weeds,
depending on the topic thatwe're getting into specifically.
But then other times, I feellike we're kind of peppering
this in because people have noidea what it is. Right?
(02:18):
We always talk about, you know,oh, you do, as the taxpayer,
have the ability to, quote,unquote, own your relationship
with the IRS, own the tax billyou get. It's not a one way
street here. It's to call taxtax planning. But we usually
it's just me and you banteringback and forth. So I look
forward
Chris Picciurro, CPA (02:34):
to this. Yeah. I'm always excited when I
get to get to have a guest onthat I've met through our
private CPA practice, and weknow one of the three laws of
tax planning is that your taxreturn is a verb and not a noun.
That means it's not somethingyou do. It shouldn't be
something you do or get at theend of the year.
It's something that should behappening throughout the year.
Well, this last summer, throughworking with, the National
(02:59):
Association of TaxProfessionals, I had the honor
of meeting Marit Burmoud, andshe is an amazing speaker. She
did a great job at Taxposium, bythe way. She has her own tax
practice. She's not only a CPA,but an enrolled agent, and she
really focuses on tax planningand strategy.
And and like like you mentioned,we want to bring more voices in
(03:21):
a tax teaching tax flow. And aswe enter this fourth quarter, we
thought we I would love to haveher on as a guest to talk about
what business owners should bethinking about once that once
that calendar hits October. So,Marit, welcome to the Teaching
Tax Flow podcast, and how areyou doing today?
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (03:42):
I'm so glad to be here in the ninth
inning. I actually am not abaseball fan, but you know, that
was my that was my ninth inning.Yeah. I'm really excited to be
here. I do love tax planning.
You've got me. For quite a fewyears, I only did compliance
based tax and I was literallygonna quit because it was so
(04:05):
unfulfilling and so frustratingto get piles of documents in
January through April and notbeing able to assist my clients
because the year was closed andI can't turn back time and
change things. So once I foundtax planning and was able to
implement that into my practice,not only is it more fulfilling
(04:27):
for me as a professional to beable to act as a partner and
collaborate with the clients,but also in general, like you
said, we're not now just beingreactive, we're being proactive.
So excited to be here. Happy toshare some tips and yeah.
Thanks for having me.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (04:43):
Well, can you give us a little bit of
history how you got into thisbusiness? A little bit of maybe
about your practice and whereyou reside?
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (04:52):
Sure. I don't wanna spend too long on it
because we got a lot of thingsthat we need to help the
listeners with. We gotta getthem all those good tax planning
tips. But I, reside in Utah. Ilike you said, I'm a CPA.
I'm an enrolled agent. So I'vehad my tax and accounting
practice for I don't wanna datemyself, but over ten years. I
started when I was 12. Justkidding. So, yeah, I have my tax
(05:17):
practice.
I specialize in tax planning. Alot of my clients are high net
worth, but I do also havebusiness owners in all niches
making all different types ofmoney. And really a lot of the
strategies are the same, justkind of on a smaller number
scale. So
Chris Picciurro, CPA (05:35):
Right. Yeah. And, actually, for those
more moderate income taxpayers,a $5,000 savings could be a
significant amount of theirdisposable net income and
especially at the at the end ofthe year. So that could be more
impactful. But, no, don't worry.
I've I've a couple weeks agonow, I had the pleasure going
out to Minnesota in for anevent, and I said said, you know
(05:58):
what's cool? I've been doingthis for twenty two years, a
firm owner, but I'm a DoogieHowser. You might be thinking to
yourself, gosh. She's look looksyoung. I'm a Doogie Howser of
tax.
So I started when I was 10, thenI thought, but if you know who
Doogie Howser is, then youreally know how old I am. So I I
kinda got in trouble my there.Shoot.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (06:16):
You almost had it.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (06:17):
You almost know. Had But well It happens.
Yeah. So so thinking about as asyou said, you have a lot of
experience working with businessowners. You're what I like that
about what by you and some ofthe things you do with your
practices, many taxprofessionals are tax
preparation people that kindagrew into a tax practice, which
(06:40):
is great.
But then I meet some taxprofessionals that I feel have
more of an entrepreneurialmindset, and that that's how I
feel about you, and it's a bigcompliment. And I actually feel
that that skill or that mindsetreally helps tax professionals
relate to business owners andgive them practical advice. So
what what are some of the thingsyou're talking to your clients
(07:02):
about? And I know you speak toother tax professionals as we
enter, you know, October. We'renot right at the deadline.
Right? We're not it's notDecember, but also we need to
there are also lead time when itcomes to implementing
strategies.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (07:16):
Yeah. To you know, you're totally right.
I was talking about this withsomeone the other day, and not
all tax professionals are goodbusiness owners for themselves.
We can advise other people butthere are a certain type of tax
professional that's also anentrepreneur and that's
definitely me. I've had theentrepreneurial spirit since I
(07:39):
was like 14 and my dad told me,hey, my stepdad said, I'll give
you $20 to mow an edge.
And so I contracted out the boyacross the street for 10 to mow
an edge. And then he was like,well, I I don't wanna give you
the money because you didn't doit, but also it got done. So,
you know, so I've been havingcontract labor and all of that
(08:01):
for since I can remember havingthose little side side
businesses.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (08:05):
I love it. So I hopefully, you wish to give
it $10.90. And maybe it wasunder the threshold at $10 a
week,
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (08:10):
fifty weeks. Was thinking about that.
Yeah.
John Tripolsky (08:12):
And then you get into child labor laws, which is
a whole another thing.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (08:15):
What's the statute of limitations? Or you
gotta unfile ten ninety nine n ec. Actually, that didn't exist
then.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (08:21):
This you're going down the wrong
rabbit hole. K? This is we gottasave this for the tax pro, the
tax pro podcast.
John Tripolsky (08:28):
So yes.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (08:29):
So we I was gonna say, so you asked me,
what do I kinda talk to myclients about? And leading into
that whole thing of being anentrepreneur myself, I know that
as I'm leading my clients, Ialso need to be watching out for
my own income, my own taxplanning and I need to do what I
(08:50):
tell every client to do. Andit's kind of what I wanna start
out with today, which is getyour books in order. You need to
have your profit and loss ready.You need to have your balance
sheet updated.
You need to know how manydistributions you've taken,
especially if you're filing asan s corp. You need to be
looking at the payroll reportspulling those and seeing how
(09:12):
much have I already paid intaxes through payroll. And this
is something that when I had aclient come to me the other day,
I saw him out and about and hesaid, do I need to buy a new
trailer for my business? Youknow, Should I do that? And I
was like, I have no idea becausehe's not an advisory client.
I don't have access to his booksyear round. And so first and
(09:33):
foremost, everybody, if youdon't have it, you need to
gather your information, whichis a lot of the time I think
what stops people from evenbeginning to tax plan because
there's work on you as thebusiness owner upfront to get
everything that you needgathered so then you can move
forward to estimate how much youowe and and start making plans.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (09:55):
Right. You you nailed it. The first step of
tax a personalized tax plan,even before you start doing the
plan, is having a taxprojection. That doesn't mean it
has to be We have to figure outwhat your marginal tax rate is
and where you stand. And I I gethow I kinda shook my head for
those who watched on YouTubewhen you said the vehicle.
Like, I don't know how manytimes I wanna stress that buying
(10:18):
a vehicle might be a good thing,but it's not a tax plan. Like,
it's just a car now or a truckthat depreciated once you rolled
it off the lot. There might be atax deduction for it
immediately, but there are otherimplications. And, you know,
it's kind of a a lazy tax planto just go buy a bunch of
trucks. You know?
But that's that but you nailedit. So you talked and said, hey.
(10:39):
You we gotta figure out whereyou're at. And
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (10:42):
Gotta figure out where you're at. And
there's things that I think thatclients don't really think as
they're gathering information.Did you have a large capital
gain? Were you trading stocks aswell? You kinda need to look at
all aspects of your life.
Obviously, we're talking tobusiness owners here, but they
are human beings also and theymight be trading all night long
(11:03):
and they've got capital gains ormaybe they have rental
properties, maybe they haveother things. So it's really,
and you're gonna have to do itanyway in April. And if you
start now and you startgathering everything and trying
to figure out where you're at,it's gonna make it less painful
in April anyway, and it's gonnagive your tax pro a head start
in terms of getting your taxesdone efficiently.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (11:27):
I guess. What what are what are some of
the misconceptions commonmisconceptions you see that
business owners or myths,business owners have when it
comes to taxes.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (11:41):
So you know what was one that popped in
my head when you were talkingabout the vehicle is they think
if they spend a $100,000 on avehicle and they can bonus
depreciate it, they're gonna geta $100,000 off their taxes. So a
tax deduction is not always ait's not a dollar for dollar
reduction in the taxes that theyowe. And I think that's for sure
(12:05):
a big misconception andsomething that is a painful,
it's a pain point when you'retalking to clients and you're
trying to explain to them,you're not getting a $100,000
off. It's based on your taxrate. This is a reduction in
your income that is thenmultiplied and I'll do
calculations with theireffective tax rate to kind of
give them an idea.
(12:25):
But I think that's somethingthat we could I always wanna
spread the word to regularbusiness owners because it will
go drop a lot of money like a$100,000 on a depreciating
vehicle, and then they're veryunpleasantly surprised when they
find out it only saved them,like, $30,000.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (12:41):
Right. It's it is so, yeah, the tax tax
deduction and tax credit arecompletely different things, and
tax credits could be refundableor nonrefundable. I found a lot
of what we one of our otherroles of tax planning is tax
flow and cash flow aredifferent. What that means is
that if you were to buy a$100,000 vehicle and you put
down 20,000 or you paid cash,the deduction is the same. Do
(13:05):
you ever run into something likethat misconception?
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (13:09):
Yeah. Of course. People it's the same if
they wanna finance it versuspaying cash. And so they just
they're confused on on whetherif they finance it, can they
take the full deduction? Do Ineed to pay cash?
And you are right when we'retalking about cash flow,
depending on the business needs,it can be advantageous for them
(13:30):
to finance the vehicle or thepiece of equipment so that they
have that cash flow inside ofthe business that they can
continue to move and recirculatein order to continue expanding
and scaling. And then yes, theycan take the full deduction, but
you move on to the nextmisconception or the next caveat
that they're not thinking aboutthat now they have a liability
(13:53):
on the books and a loan thatthey're gonna have to pay for
say five years and that's gonnacontinue to take cash out. So
they kinda it's a lot of there'sa lot of things on the internet
from the big tax influencersthat talk a lot about, get the
Eurus. Do you know what a Eurusis, John? You're a you're a man.
You probably car guy. Yeah. Buythe Eurus, and and you'll save
(14:14):
$300,000, and then now they'vegot a $300,000 liability on the
books. It's pretty painful.
John Tripolsky (14:20):
An Or you $8,000 break job that you that that's a
whole
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (14:23):
new thing. Yeah. That's true. The
maintenance on those things.
John Tripolsky (14:26):
What you guys are talking about here too, it's
it's almost and it drives menuts now and has for a very,
very long time when you hearsomebody that maybe, you know,
they're gonna take the plunge.They're like, hey. I'm I'm gonna
go. I'm gonna start thisbusiness on my own. You know,
whatever's causing it.
And they're so excited about it.And they're they're so excited
because, a, they think they'regonna have all this freedom,
which, you know, here, I hate tobe the boohoo negative Nancy.
(14:48):
Usually, when you start abusiness, you don't any more
freedom for a long time. It'susually a lot harder. Different
topic.
But then they're like, it'sgreat because I get to write off
so much stuff, and it so it'sfree. It's like, absolutely not.
Who whoever told you that, a awrite off or expensing something
does not mean that it is free.If anything, it is discounted
(15:10):
depending on, you know, whatyour marginal tax rate is. Like,
it's not it's it's a movingtarget, if you will, but I feel
like more people need to knowthat.
Right? So how many people do youhave probably come to you and
they're like, oh, yeah. Tookcare of it. The business got it.
It's all good.
It's like Yeah.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (15:25):
No. And then they say, but I don't have
any money in my business bankaccount. Why do I have to pay
all these taxes? And I say, theIRS doesn't care what you have
in your bank account, they carewhat's on your profit and loss
and you're showing a profit. SoI'm sorry that you spent it all
but now it's time to pay thepiper.
So that's true cash flow. I likethat you guys teach cash flow
(15:47):
versus tax flow because they'retwo very different things, and
they are so important tounderstand how they differ and
how they work together and howyou can work them together.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (15:57):
And that's where you you know, it's hard to
you nailed it. It's hard forbusiness owners to understand,
especially, I feel like soleproprietors because they don't
really look at their balancesheet like maybe a corp or an s
corp as much to understand, youknow, servicing debt is not a
deduction. Doesn't mean youshouldn't service a debt or you
don't have to. But we've runinto situations we have where we
(16:18):
work with people that buy booksof business profession like
insurance agencies, and you runinto the opposite problem. Hey.
We're gonna we're gonna pay thismake this payment over 5 years,
but they don't realize they thevast majority of what they're
buying is a fifteen year asset.It's goodwill. It's it's it's
something that so now it's theopposite problem. More cash is
(16:39):
going out than you get deductionfor. And like you mentioned, you
might get that big deductionyear one, but you're two to
five.
You're paying on that vehiclewith no deduction, and here's
what could happen. What happensI've had this one, and and I'm
well, I bought a vehicle for a$100. I took the $100,000
(17:01):
deduction. I owe 60 on it. Mywife hates it.
It doesn't fit my garage. So I'mgonna trade it in. Don't worry.
They gave me the $60 I owed onit so I don't have to pay tax on
anything. And that's a bigmisconception also.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (17:16):
Yeah. Definitely. Especially because
now they've kind of over theyears, they've gone back and
forth in terms of trade ins forbusiness vehicles. But
currently, they are looking attrade ins as an actual sale. And
I knew what you were getting at.
I knew you were getting at thedepreciation recapture before
you even before you even yousaid, okay. Here's the other
(17:37):
thing. And I thought, I knowwhat's coming because this is
something that you as a businessowner need to be aware of this
depreciation recapture recapturebecause because probably 75% of
tax professionals, I feel likethey don't warn their clients.
And so they're very happy golucky to look like the good guy
in the year of and say, yeah,we're gonna take this $100,000
(18:00):
deduction and it's gonna begreat. And the client has
absolutely no idea that theyneed to hold onto that vehicle
because they've now acceleratedthe depreciation.
So instead of spreading it outover say a life of five years,
they've taken that full fiveyears upfront and now they need
to hang on to it for that amountof time or they're gonna have to
(18:21):
pay back the deduction that theytook. I just had a client this
year, I got him in the middle ofthe year, but he had his
previous tax preparer had put anAirstream trailer on his books,
which he has a business where Icould see the trailer. Okay, all
right, It's a business Airstreamtrailer, sure. But then he
(18:42):
decided to I think he sold it.He didn't trade it in, but now
he has And it was the very nextyear he sold, he traded No, he
sold that $100,000 trailer,which I wasn't you know, working
with him at the time.
I'm looking backwards now. We'realways talking about proactive.
I now have his documentsproactively looking back, and
(19:03):
now we have a $100,000 additionto his income, an additional
recapture. It is painful, and heno idea. He had no idea when he
committed to taking thatdeduction that he had
obligations on his side or atleast be aware of what would
happen if he decided he wasgonna sell.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (19:23):
Yes. And there there could be phantom.
Now at least we have a 100%bonus depreciation moving
forward because what wouldhappen sometimes, and you've
probably seen this where theytraded the vehicle in. There's
no, like, I can kinda exchangefor vehicles anymore. They
bought another vehicle of aboutmaybe higher value, so they
might be able to save theirthere.
But when bonus depreciation wentto 60% and it was gonna be 40
(19:47):
and you were you had the full ofrecapture I know we're getting
into the weeds a little, but thepoint is when you're making
fixed asset purchases, talk toyour tax professional first.
And, also, it's not always bestto just deduct the entire amount
year one. Some I've seen itwhere this one drives me crazy
where people will deduct theentire amount year one and
(20:09):
actually create, like, an NOL ornet operating loss or or move
people into low marginal taxbracket instead of saving some
of those deductions.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (20:20):
Yeah, for sure. I've seen that too.
And I actually, as a taxprofessional, when I see these
things as I'm working oneverything, I will make the
suggestion that they don'taccelerate sometimes because if
they're not accelerating, ifthey don't need to accelerate
it, then it might be moreadvantageous for them to just,
you know, do a different methodof depreciation so that they can
(20:41):
have an additional deductionnext year. So you're right. It
it can get especially when itcomes to depreciation, it's kind
of a, point of contention for mewhen I see the influencers on
the internet just so so quick totell everybody that a 100 and I
was gonna say it's a valuabletax planning strategy.
(21:04):
I had it on my list to talkabout, but it's something that,
you know, you wanna use alongwith a professional that
actually understandsdepreciation and can help you
because it's one of the mostcomplicated areas, I think.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (21:18):
I agree. I agree. What other what other
things are on your your favoritelist for tax moves on the last
quarter?
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (21:27):
You know what I think? So a lot of these
small businesses are cash based.They're filing on the cash
basis. And so I do like a littlebit of playing around if we can
with say prepaying expenseswithin the twelve month rule. So
if they have expenses they canprepay that give them a benefit
(21:47):
for the next twelve months andthey have the cash flow to go
ahead and do that.
Those are always kind of goodones to just go through. Okay,
what are you What's a newsubscription that you're signing
up for for the next year? Do youhave an insurance policy that's
gonna give you another year ofbenefit? Do you, if you have the
cash flow and you're gonna needit anyway, let's kind of get all
(22:10):
of those expenses into thisyear. And then the same can go
with income if you have abusiness where maybe you don't
need to invoice immediately,you're on the cash basis, so
you're not claiming income asit's earned, you're claiming it
as when the cash is received.
So I think that's a really goodtip that a lot of business
owners, they get blinded bythese really flashy, colorful,
(22:33):
right off a Lamborghini Uruswhen they could probably, you
know, get the same amount ofexpenses if they were to look at
maybe prepaying options or theywere looking at deferring some
of that revenue into the nextcalendar year. So
Chris Picciurro, CPA: Absolutely. Especially if you're (22:47):
undefined
in the trades or let's say youhave that right at the end of
the year, you have theopportunity to, you know, bill
someone, but you could, youknow, you could bill them in the
January, and and it just Yeah.Maybe it's
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (23:02):
Don't just leave the check-in the
mailbox, though because you youguys don't know about
constructive receipt but but alot of tax pros do and
technically if you if you haveaccess to the cash, you have
access to the income you'resupposed to claim it. So I did
have a client who thought he wasvery slick because he'd be like,
well, I'm gonna go out of townwith my family for Christmas and
(23:23):
I'm not gonna check the mail.And I'm like, gosh. You had that
I mean, really just don't billthem. Don't invoice them until
the next year.
Oh, I hear it It's not justpretend the cash doesn't exist.
That's not gonna work.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (23:35):
They love saying, isn't it kinda odd there
aren't any deposits fromDecember 10 to the thirty first?
But January 2, there's a hugelump sum. Oh, that's kinda
crazy. But I love that idea oftiming. You know, we can we can,
within the rules, and ethically,time our deductions, time our
income potentially.
I I mean, that's that's smart.And and you gotta look at where
(23:57):
you're at, like you said, at thevery beginning. Look at where
you're at year to date,determine. Or do you feel like
the next year you know, youmight work with a business owner
that says, wow. Well, next year,know I'm buying x amount of
computers or, actually, we'regonna be buying our own office
building and have a lot ofdeductions there.
So maybe I might wanna notexpense things this year. It
(24:19):
just just depends.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (24:20):
Yeah. And and, you know, you said you
said something that kinda got myhead going to. This is something
the business owners woulddefinitely wanna work with a
very knowledgeable accountant.But let's say you really are
planning on buying an officebuilding in the future, there
might be an option for you toimplement the self rental
strategy where you can groupyour rental with your business
(24:46):
operations. It's a specialgrouping election and then they
could do a cost segregation.
There's a big one there that'skind of for say a higher net
worth business that would belooking to purchase their own
office building. But it's kindof this thing where technically,
suppose you could do it in thefourth quarter because if you
(25:07):
group it in with your businessoperations, you're not so
pressed for materialparticipation. It's already
included in with your businessoperations. So it's something
that definitely won't apply toeverybody. But if you are a
business owner out there andyou're thinking that could be
me, I do want a building and Iand I really need to expand.
I've been wanting to anyway.Maybe talk to your tax
(25:28):
professional about doing theself rental strategy with the
grouping election. It could fitfor you. But, again, there's
other caveats that we couldn'tcover in this podcast that you
would wanna be aware of becausethe way the income is treated
moving forward and losses aredifferent than a regular rental.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (25:45):
So Correct. Correct. And and it
could be prudent justfinancially to own your own
building as well.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (25:51):
Right. Yeah.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (25:53):
What are some of the other things that
you're thinking about that thatthat people need to focus on as
we enter the wow. The preholiday season. I don't know.
It's yours flying by right now.So
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (26:07):
Well, if you are an owner of an s corp
and you have not been doing anaccountable plan like most s
corp owners do not unless theyhave a really good accountant
that gets after them, I wouldsuggest that you get together
those reimbursable expenses thatyou have that contract with the
(26:27):
company that they're going toreimburse you as an employee.
Technically you want thesereimbursements coming through
every month and you want them tobe organized. But let's just say
you haven't jumped on that boatyet but you're going to, you're
gonna get organized moving fromhere on out. Well that, know,
because those S Corp owners willsay, well, I want a home office
deduction and I want this and myaccountant won't let me have it.
(26:50):
You can have it, but you need tosubmit it the right way through
an accountable plan.
If you're a Schedule C owner,you could also do the same
thing. So if you haven't beentracking your mileage, let's get
that mileage log recreated. Iuse MileIQ for my mileage and I
classify all of my drives.There's a lot I think of missing
(27:12):
expenses and deductions that thebusiness owners can find. But,
again, they need to gather it.
They need to gather thatinformation for the home office.
They need to gather thatmileage, and it will, you know,
it will result in a gooddeduction. And it's much better
to get it done now than to tryto be gathering it all at tax
time, and it will help you planand find out what else you need
(27:35):
to do in order to to lower yourincome.
Chris Picciurro, CPA: Absolutely. We we have, I ran (27:38):
undefined
into a new new client in ourprivate practice who is in the
professional service business,has a legit home office in an
affluent area in a major city,and it was deemed that that a
home office somewhere would beabout $800 a month for just like
a WeWork or Regis. So that's a$10,000. He's an s corp. And the
(28:01):
other accountant was for somereason, they said, oh, you don't
you know, there's no they didn'tunderstand the accountable plan.
And his tax rate hits it's abouta $3,500 tax reduction, so he
can he can pay himself under anaccountable plan, you know, and
and about $10,000 a year in hiscase. So, yeah, if you have same
thing with a c corp, you canhave an accountable plan. So I
(28:22):
think being organized is one ofyour best attributes as a
taxpayer.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (28:27):
Yeah. And also really rolling up your
sleeves and and finding thoseexpenses, keeping things
separate because a lot of peoplemiss expenses because I guess
they're not organized butthey're also co mingling like
crazy. We've got even peoplewith S corps, they're just not,
(28:48):
they don't have a designatedbusiness card. They're not
separating out. I go to Costcoand I literally have a business
order that I pay with mybusiness card and then I have my
family order.
The more that you can do forthat, I think that business
owners have the misconceptionthat it's annoying and my
accountants just, they'regetting after me and they want
(29:09):
the receipts, but really we doit all for you. We don't, I
mean, I certainly don't likebeing the bad guy that's out
there having to drop huge taxbills, feeling like I'm fighting
with my clients. I wanna be yourally, but I'm also not a miracle
worker. I can't go with you toCostco and tell you to split
your purchases. So really beingcognizant of your business
(29:31):
expenses and keeping themseparate, treating your business
as a separate entity fromyourself.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (29:37):
I agree. Yeah. You wanna especially if
you're, you know, an s corp,that's that's huge. Yeah. What
you know?
And then kinda in the same veinas s corp, making sure that you
are taking some type ofreasonable compensation is
important. But that's, like youknow, it's kinda more
compliance. I would look at theyou know, if people are
interested in retirement plancontributions, small business
(29:59):
owners, There's somewhat of amisconception that those have to
be done before the end of theyear. I mean, if they're not all
of them have to be, so that'sanother thing. But, you know,
there are some things that haveto get done in the fourth
quarter.
Like you said, the reimbursableplan, is is very important, you
know, for variety of things forthe because this is what we run
(30:22):
into, especially I mean, thestandard mileage deduction is
pretty favorable right now.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (30:26):
Yes. Especially if
Chris Picciurro, CPA (30:27):
we have, like, a hybrid vehicle or an EV
and goes so so if you're not thebest and or if you and you wanna
avoid that depreciationrecapture or some of those
pitfalls that we talked about,do having a reimbursable plan if
an s corp for your mileageswould be a good idea. What are
(30:47):
any other things that you wannamake sure people are aware of?
And and and should they waittill, like, know, December 31 at
midnight to be contacting theiraccountant about okay.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (30:57):
Yeah. I think don't don't wait that
long. Definitely don't wait thatlong. Another one I kinda wanted
to talk about, I think, issomething, again, is kind of one
of those flashy things, but whendone properly is really if
you're already paying a familymember or a boyfriend or a
(31:18):
girlfriend to help you in yourbusiness, I have a lot of young
clients that are contentcreators, for example, and they
will have a boyfriend or agirlfriend who literally does
everything. He helps me film, heedits all of my videos, he does
all this stuff, but they're nottrying to shift any of that
income over.
(31:38):
There might be people thatyou're already paying to help
you in your business, but you'renot actually giving them a
$10.99. You're not getting a wnine. You're not doing the
things that you need to do towrite it off as an expense.
That's sometimes really bigmissing deductions, especially
with younger clients who are inmore artistic industries. Or I
(31:59):
have another client and shebuilds she builds little crafts,
candles, and things like that.
And she'll have people that comeover and help her build them and
they'll have candle buildingparties. And then she'll pay
them and she'll be like, I gaveso and so $500 and they're
helping me and I gave so and so$700 Well, in order to write
that off and you can write thatoff, we need to get the w nines.
(32:21):
It's very important and get thatinformation. You should be
getting the w nines before youpay the person so that you can
then send them a $10.99. Butincome shifting when it's a
valid income shifting strategy,can also be very helpful.
A lot of people reallyespecially in small businesses.
Right? Like we wanna hook up ourfamily members and our friends,
(32:42):
but you can't just pay them andthen you don't get to take it as
an expense and they don't haveto take it as income. You can if
you want to, but it's certainlynot gonna help you with tax
planning to do it that way. Andso I I sometimes see areas
where, you know, they couldimprove a little bit in that
instead of just giving handoutsto everybody.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (33:01):
Well, you may I mean, you just mentioned
something that's very importantas far as, yes, being organized
and getting deductions and howand if you are paying
subcontractors, this might notseem like tax planning, but,
ultimately, it is. Make sure nowyour best practice is to make
sure you have a w nine. W nineform is a form that someone
independent contractor gives tosomeone paying them to to share
(33:24):
with them how they are taxed andwhat their tax information is if
the ten ninety nine is it shouldbe issued. But having those on
file instead of scramblingaround in January, February
after you've already paidsomebody and that person might
not be willing to give you thatinformation, and now you've got
a now you've kinda have a acompliance issue, is something
(33:45):
that especially for smallerbusiness owners that they're the
they're the, the maintenanceteam. They are the, you know,
the banker.
They are doing so much for theirbusiness, and they don't have
the you know, they just don'thave a team yet to to kinda keep
them in check and and make sureall those checks and balances
(34:05):
are are done. A lot of timesthey're scrambling around to get
a job done and paying peopleoutside their truck and be like,
okay. And, yeah, that could bestressful.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (34:14):
And they might not even be tracking it. I
don't know. I think I gave thisguy $500 to come help me do this
real fast or I mean, you wannatrack that. That can add up to a
lot.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (34:24):
Mhmm. Absolutely. Well, we appreciate
it. This has been great. Do youhave any final, little tidbit
for for for, that that businessowner?
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (34:41):
Sure. I can think of a good one.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (34:43):
Oh, thank you.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (34:44):
Yeah. I gotta I gotta I I have a final
tidbit besides me harping on youto get organized and get going
now because you can listen tothis podcast and then you're
gonna put it off until December31 and don't do that. But also
remember that don't buy it ifyou don't need it. Like, the
(35:05):
whole premise of the theoriesbehind what these guys are
teaching is all about managingyour cash flow with your tax
flow. And let's not get socaught up in creating a
deduction and I need a taxexpense and I'm writing it all
off that you're sinking your ownshit because yes, you wanna make
sure you're always proactivelytax planning, but you don't
(35:26):
wanna go buy a bunch of stuffthat you don't need just to get
a discount on your tax bill.
So that would be my final adviceis be smart about it. Don't let
your emotions make you get crazybecause sometimes people get
real crazy around this time ofyear, and we need to keep our
heads on straight. We need totackle this with a logical
mindset.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (35:45):
That is great advice.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (35:46):
That good? Don't let Yeah. Okay.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (35:47):
Don't let that text tell wag the dog, as
they say.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (35:50):
Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah. Exactly.
John Tripolsky (35:51):
That's awesome. And and and honestly, Berene, I
think one of the coolest thingsabout what you said a little bit
earlier on, right, when we'retalking about all this stuff.
Right? Like, there's so manypeople, and this is not a dig at
TikTok specifically, butsometimes they call, you know,
the TikTok diploma on how you dothings really quick. Right?
Mhmm. It's it's again, peopleare saying these strategies,
(36:12):
these tips, but they're notgiving you the whole story.
Right? So probably the bestadvice is there's so much stuff
out there. Just making sureyou're connecting with somebody.
But then you gave the example.Right? Like, you're renting. You
might wanna buy an office. It itcomes down to communication, the
relationship with your taxprofessional.
They're also not a mind readeror a wizard or a warlock,
whatever it is that makes thingshappen. If you don't tell them
(36:33):
that you're thinking aboutbuying an office, they might not
know that's on the horizon.Right? And you might have to do
things differently today that'llimpact yours down the road. So
it all comes down to that.
Right? Just communication,organization
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (36:45):
Yes.
John Tripolsky (36:46):
And the rest is, you know, whoever you're working
with.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (36:48):
Harmony. Oh, that's a great Harmony.
John Tripolsky (36:51):
End it. End with harmony. We shall sing together
like innocent anyways. We won'tdo that.
Chris Picciurro, CPA (36:56):
We won't
John Tripolsky (36:57):
we don't wanna lose subscribers.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (36:58):
Yeah. At least from
Chris Picciurro, CPA (36:59):
me and
John Tripolsky (36:59):
Chris standpoint.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (37:01):
I I don't have a voice that would
keep subscribers either. So
John Tripolsky (37:04):
We could just go to a black screen and just, you
know, add some, yeah, somegenerative stuff in there.
Marit Burmood, CPA, EA (37:09):
Perfect.
John Tripolsky (37:09):
But thank you for joining us on this, Chris.
As always, I mean, I I lovekinda being a fly in the wall,
listening to these conversationsa little bit as well. But I know
we have more of the stuff comingup. So I look forward to that as
always. Again, great, greattopic here.
We're gonna put, really, a bunchof contact information at the
bottom of this in the show noteshere depending on where you're
listening to. Reach out toanybody else anybody on our
(37:30):
team. Marin, obviously, always,we appreciate your time. So
please, everybody feel free toconnect with her as well too.
And let's just keep this going.
And if anything, if anybodytakes anything from this, let's
just make it more known that taxplanning is a thing. Right? And
and people can do this, andthere's a lot of power to it as
long as you're building up thatteam with some knowledgeable
people knowledgeable around you.So on that note, we'll see
(37:53):
everybody back here again nextweek on the teaching tax flow
podcast. Same day of the week,completely different date, and
somewhat related topic.
So have a great week, everybody.
Disclaimer (38:07):
The content provided is for educational purposes
only. We encourage you to seekpersonalized investment advice
from your financialprofessional. For all tax and
legal advice, please consultyour CPA or attorney. Investment
advisory services are offeredthrough Cabin Advisors, a
registered investment advisor.Securities are offered through
Cabin Securities, a registeredbroker dealer. The content of
this podcast does not constitutean offer of securities.
(38:29):
Offerings can only be madethrough an offering memorandum,
and you should carefully examinethe risk factors and other
information contained in thememorandum.
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