April 22, 2024 • 26 mins
In this captivating episode of Musky Talk Monday, join us as we reveal ins and outs of musky fishing. Introducing our special guest, Jeff Hanson, a seasoned fishing master from Madison Musky Guide Service, the episode kicks off with his valuable insights into the Southern Wisconsin opener, various influences on fishing conditions such as water temperatures, weather patterns and gear varieties.
We dive headfirst into the topic of wood versus plastic baits, evaluating the advantages of each under the discerning eye of our esteemed guest. Covering a wide array of baits from crankbaits to jerkbaits, this episode illuminates both encouraging and cautionary tales, challenging common misconceptions and broadening your understanding of the material’s impact on your fishing journey.
Furthermore, we feature specific product recommendations and introduce you to upcoming fishing arsenal available for purchase on teamrhinooutdoors.com. Aimed at both avid fishing aficionados and beginners, this episode promises to equip you with indispensable knowledge for your future fishing adventures.
Deepening into the wood versus plastic lure debate, Jeff Hanson provides his experienced viewpoint. Starting with a detailed analysis on why lure material matters, he points out aspects like the added manoeuvrability of wooden lures, his thoughts on bait rattles and explores bait tuning – offering vital tips on maximising bait performance.
Discussions further extend into the shifts in topwater bait trends and the potential allure of wood's adjustability, giving you comprehensive insights into making the best bait choice for muskie fishing. Dive in to this riveting episode for for a meaningful exploration of the world of muskie fishing!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Music.
(00:06):
Welcome to another episode of Muskie Talk Monday on the Team Rhino Outdoors
Muskie Fishing Podcast.
This week I'm going to talk to Jeff Hansen, Madison Muskie Guide Service,
and we're going to give a little bit of update on what to expect for Southern Wisconsin opener.
We're just two weeks away, I believe, by the time you hear this podcast,
from when that's going to be rolling in Southern Wisconsin.
(00:28):
So we'll go over a little update on that, kind of water temperature thing,
and maybe what to expect on that.
That and then we're going to talk wood versus plastic whether it
be crankbaits jerkbaits or top water baits kind
of the you know the differences between both when
you use one versus the other what some have to
offer versus what others don't have to offer so we kind of
go down that road a little bit too just to we're just talking gear
(00:50):
and so that's part of the gear nothing you know super groundbreaking
we're not talking about the newest and latest baits but
definitely you know stuff to help you potentially put
another fish in the net this year and if you're you
know speaking of the latest and greatest in gear if you're looking
for gear for your next musky fishing adventures make sure you check out
team rhino outdoors.com this week we've seen
(01:10):
livingston krakens custom quad dogs h2o
tackle those are things just to name
a few the the krakens have been selling well
and from what i understand if you don't get one sooner than
later you probably have to wait till july to get
them custom quad dogs i believe we had 10 new
colors show up pretty good numbers of all of them so by
(01:32):
the time you hear this podcast there should be some but if you're looking to the
to get the quad dog from musky innovations definitely check that out
and like i said roger from h2o tackle good.
Friend of me we've been knowing each
other for well before the team rhino outdoors even existed
and so he's got me reloaded on shallow baits
perfect i mean his stuff is shallow cranky nitros if you're looking for shallow
(01:53):
water application stuff i mean it's not going to go much more than a foot down
two feet down at the very very most you know perfect for early season especially
if you get the cranky nitro half tail shallow you know it's a bigger profile
but it if you're looking to stay shallow the perfect.
Opportunity for perfect bait for that opportunity so go
check those out on our website team rhino outdoors.com in
(02:17):
the coming weeks we're going to talk a little bit about a new bait
that we have coming out it'll be exclusive to us and the
manufacturer so stay tuned that's coming
soon and there might be a few listeners if you're
in the muskie academy that's a online
group with with jeff van remortal from
wd or wdh guide service
(02:39):
yeah he's up there in northern wisconsin he's
got his muskie academy group he's kind of spread the word a little
bit in that group but outside of that it's still a.
Little bit hush hush we're still working out a few things on it
but coming very soon or at least the
details are coming soon and hopefully about the
time that everybody's looking for this type of bait they should have
it in their head be able to get it here at teamrideoutdoors.com but
(03:03):
i rambled for three minutes time to go dial up my conversation i
have with jeff hansen my guest
this week on the podcast is going to be jeff hansen and
we're going to talk a little bit about kind of what we'd expect for
spring opener in the southern
wisconsin zone but we want to talk wood versus
(03:25):
plastic particularly when it comes to crankbaits and
jerk baits jeff how are things going today thank you
for your time oh good good just uh float
a little windy today but uh yeah nice nice day
today absolutely and so let's talk
about this season a little bit you're gonna be running around in a
new boat huh you're gonna have new recon is that right yeah yeah i got around
(03:48):
2085 a 20 foot six tiller that's 97 inches wide it's a hell of a tiller in my
opinion about the best musky tiller that's out right now for sure We're pretty
excited to get that, supposed to get that on Monday.
Can't wait to put some up. Yeah, fingers crossed that that works out.
I mean, I know with all the craziness since, you know, COVID started,
(04:10):
it seems like nobody's delivering boats on time these days.
But I hope that everything works out for you. But, you know,
I'm also hoping that I get a chance to come down. And I know that my buddy Steve
Jensen, he's up there fishing at Recon.
And I mean, they're great boats from everything I can tell.
They're, you know, they're made here in Wisconsin and they're pretty sweet rides.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very super nice people.
(04:32):
And been great to work with are you actually going to
put locators on this boat because it seems like you're one of those guys that's still
you're not worried about the latest and greatest forward-facing sonar
type stuff you're pretty much just maybe halfway using side imaging but for
the most part you just do it by feel it seems like yeah i got one helix 12 in
the back of the boat and that's all i need i don't have any of the side scan
(04:56):
or any of that stuff for me i got Yeah, I got side imaging,
but the only time I really use it is if I'm open water trolling or casting,
because otherwise there's so many weeds here in Madison, that's all you can see.
So there's not much use for me using it casting, except for if I'm fishing way open water.
So you mean to tell me you can catch muskies without $40,000 in electronics in your boat?
(05:18):
Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, I've been fishing these lakes since I was a kid.
I mean, if I was going to be fishing new waters, I would maybe think about investing
it. But I mean, I know these lakes like back of my hand, so there's no sense
in me dropping the money and stuff like that for me.
Let's talk a little bit about what we think is going to go on for opener.
(05:38):
Well, since we're talking lakes and fishing, let's talk about that.
Yeah, the season, we had such a warm winter, which I hate.
We had such bad weeds last year and such shallow water.
When we don't have thick ice, especially with thick ice with lots of snow on
it, that totally blocks off any sunlight.
(05:59):
And when we have years with the heavy ice and a lot of snow,
it kills off all the weeds. They don't get any sunlight during the wintertime and they're gone.
We start with a clean bottom at the end of the year, but that didn't happen this year.
There's still weeds from last year and I
talked to a couple guys today that had been out and said
that there's good weeds already which is way too early
for that so there's going to be good weeds for
(06:21):
opener which normally there's not here we've got
way above normal temps so the fish have been a little bit further
along in the spawn than what they did so should be
a lot more post-spawn muskies than there have been the
last couple years the last couple years fish are still spawning here and
opener year and that should not be the case this
year with how warm water's been but we
(06:42):
had a lot of low water too we had a couple inches of rain
the last few days so that should help but the masts and lakes are
still really really low and you know
you said you've been fishing these since you were a kid have you seen
anything like this before and if you if you
have how do you think it's going to play out yeah i've
seen years like this in the past typically it's
(07:05):
there's there's good fishing right off the bat especially the start getting
some bigger females earlier last year they didn't
start going good until like the third fourth week in may
because they hadn't recouped from spawn yet this year they should
so should be getting some bigger fish earlier than in may than what what we
normally do but hopefully we just don't get a lot of weather in may and early
(07:27):
in june because that would suck if we end up with 80 degree water temps and
in june so So hopefully we get some cool weather ahead and they're at least.
Yeah. All right. So kind of gives you a preview. Expect, you know,
lots of weed growth and things to be fairly ahead for the southern opener here in Madison.
But Jeff, the reason we want to talk was, you know, you've wanted to talk about
(07:48):
it for a while is wood, wood baits versus plastic baits.
You know, let's, uh, let's, first off, let's start off with Suex because that's
one we can compare the two baits right there. Wood, wood versus plastic.
What do you, I know you, I know you like it. both I particularly prefer the
weighted wood ones 10 inch in particular you know if you if you could only pick
(08:09):
one which one are you gonna pick and you know let's maybe talk about why,
It depends on the time of year, too. You know, early in the spring,
I really like the weighted sevens. Those put a lot of fish in the boat for me.
Then pretty much after May, I put hang those up in the garage,
and I don't use them the rest of the year.
June, I'm throwing weighted nines, and then a lot of the nine-inch plastic high-impact.
(08:32):
Years ago, when Steve Seward first told me, he's like, yeah,
we're going to start making plastic suics. I'm like, oh, no, why would you do that?
But one thing with the high-impacts is they are consistent.
I mean, you buy one, and then you get another one later on. It's going to work the same way.
Versus wood, you're never going to have that because of the grain in the wood.
(08:52):
The weight of the wood is all different.
There's more inconsistencies with the plastic. So you get baits that do the
same thing when you're buying plastic ones, wood ones. Each one does something different.
All in all, I probably caught more on wood. And some of my biggest fish have
been on wood, particularly 10-inch weighted wood suics. I mean,
I just, that's a standby for me.
(09:15):
I mean, I've caught so many big fish, untenant weighted suex,
wood ones since I was a kid.
But the plastic ones are good too.
And if you, you can actually tune some of the plastic ones to do some more erratic
stuff than you can the wood ones. But I like both.
I'm in a place for both of them. Well, you said, you talked about the inconsistencies of wood.
(09:36):
That can also be, that's a negative and a positive, in my opinion.
And the inconsistency sometimes is like you get that wood bait and this is not
only with, you know, jerk baits, but crank baits as well.
And sometimes that wood bait literally just has like what we'll call it, right?
I mean, it wobbles different, it hangs different, potentially depending upon,
(09:56):
you know, how many, how often you've used it.
Sometimes they suck up some water and, you know, add some extra weight to it.
Like those are all things that can definitely be a positive to wood baits as well.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've got some 10-inch wood Suics that have the magic.
I mean, they're just erratic as hell.
I mean, I like my Suics not only to have a nice hop to them,
(10:17):
but be able to kick out side to side, and those are the ones that seem to get the most hits.
I know you and I have done a couple of Suic videos. You can see how I tune my
Suic and some of those YouTubes and how I bend them.
But if I can get them kicking out side to side, I, they definitely outperform
the ones that are just doing a straight hop.
(10:37):
And some of the wood ones, you can just get a hop on them. They don't want to
kick out to the side. Just depends on the graining of the wood, the weight of the wood.
They're just all, all different. I mean, they're, they're all good,
but some of them, like you said, are, are it. They have the, they have the magic.
Then on the converse side, sometimes with the wood though, you also have the one that is not it.
That is very difficult to tune. Usually I can get, I'm pretty good at suics,
(11:01):
right? I can get them to tune in, but there are sometimes occasionally with
those wood ones where you can't quite get it to do exactly what you want it to do.
That would be the only downside, I would say, to a wood suick.
Yeah, and that's actually, customers always ask me if they could bring baits
for me to tune, both crankbaits and suics, and I probably have more people bring
(11:21):
suics than any other bait combined.
It's because people try and over-tune them.
Some of the bends on some of the tails, some people do it with pliers,
and it's just absolutely crazy. Some of the suics that I've had people bring,
I had a guy last year bring 10 of them for me.
I just laughed when he opened the box at how he had them, had them bent.
People just overthink it and just bend them way too much. You don't need to
(11:43):
do that flight modification with all those suics, get them doing.
Yeah, for me, I, I just make a, a really slight bend down on the back of the tail.
And I, I don't bend like side to side at all on the tail.
You don't do any side to side bending, do you? Like as far as like the little bits on the fins?
Yeah, I mean, I put my thumb in the center of it and cup it around my thumb
(12:04):
and then just a slight bend down and you can see that video that we did.
I guess that's the best way to explain it if you want to see it.
Yeah, you might have to go back a little ways on, well, I think I have it on
the page on, you know, I think it's, you know, saved onto the SUIC page.
But otherwise, if you go to our YouTube channel, you can find it there.
And the thing about it, though, is it's, you might have to go find it a little
(12:25):
ways because, Jeff, it's been quite a while since we've done any filming together.
Hopefully that changes this year.
Yeah, the Suic one, believe it or not. That was in 2018.
Wow. I can't believe it's been that long. Holy cow.
Well, then, so how long has it been since we had, what was it,
10 fish that we had that day?
Yeah, that was 2018 or 2019. Okay. Man, we're getting old fast.
(12:48):
Yeah. Yeah, you and I never fished last year. I don't think we've ever fished
in the last couple of years.
Yeah, the year before you came down in October, you got four trolling with me that day,
but they're smaller than the fall okay oh yeah
that's right i do remember that yep all right well let's
let's talk a little bit about crankbaits because you know
there's obviously differences there too you know
(13:11):
first off wood crankbaits are getting harder and harder to find you you know
you're talking like loks and musky trains and boss sheds and supernaturals bn
customs i'm sure i'm missing somebody and they're going to yell at me but those
are the ones i can think of you know oh yeah yep Yep. The Leo lures too.
Yep. See, I knew there was going to be somebody that was going to yell at me for leaving them out.
(13:33):
It wasn't by design, but you know, what, what is it that you like about,
you know, wood versus crank or wood versus plastic when it comes to cranks?
The wood, to me, you can tune them easier.
You can get them to do more crazy stuff. A lot of the plastic stuff,
especially if the screw eye is molded into the bait, if you tweak on it too
(13:53):
much, you'll actually crack the plastic.
Like Jake's and Grandma's and some of that, if you really tweak on that screw
eye, you'll crack them, and then they leak and sink.
Versus the wood baits, you can really tweak them and get them to do a lot of
different things. I mean, everybody that knows me know I run a ton of muskie
trains that are made from cedar.
(14:14):
I've got a lot of really big fish on them, and I can get them to do a lot of crazy things too long.
I mean, some of them I'll tweak so that even on turns, sometimes it'll blow out of the water.
If I'm turning, sure, if they get going fast because they're so erratic, but that's what I want.
If they're doing crazy stuff, then the fish are more likely to hit them.
But I can definitely seem to get more big fish, wood crankbaits than I do on plastic for me.
(14:40):
You know, I've trolled depth readers in my life probably more than everything else combined.
I've only ever got 150 on a depth reader in my life. Some people will probably
disagree with that. They've got a lot of 50s on them, but I just haven't.
And I haven't been running musky trains as long as I've been running depth readers,
and I got way, way more 50s on those.
And it's just i don't know
(15:02):
they're more natural to the wood baits
don't really have rattles in them so it might be more natural to
the fish too to me but i've definitely outproduced
plastic crankbaits trolling with wood by far i mean like most of the charter
captains on lake st claire they're all running wood baits you know they're running
ziggies musky trains blokies leos stuff like that but not running a lot of plastic
(15:24):
baits and i've spent a lot of time trolling there but But to me,
the biggest thing is just being able to tune them,
getting them to walk erratically and do what you want.
I guess that's, that's the biggest thing for me. I was going to ask you,
you know, about, about the rattles.
You said they are, you know, that the plastic, obviously many of them are offered
(15:46):
rattles and how wood isn't.
I was going to ask you, you know, if that, if you thought that had,
that had a potential impact on the abilities to catch large fish,
you know, if you're seeing more fish catching, you know, big fish on wood,
if it was the, the rattles that would do it.
Yeah to me stuff with rattles
in it i seem to catch smaller fish on
(16:07):
it than really really big fish and again i've
caught way more fish in the 52 to 54 inch range of wood cranks by far than anything
with with plastic i don't know why i know a lot of guys caught big fish on plastics
too but just not in my experience and rattles seem to be small smaller fish
(16:28):
for me definitely I mean,
the plastics that I troll have, that they have rattles in them,
you know, or depth raiders,
tough shads, we'll have copfish up to 48 on, on tough shads,
but they catch bigger fish on the wood cranks, you know, like diesels and MX-6s, 7s,
9s, particularly in the 9s, got, I mean, 51, 52 inch fish on them.
(16:50):
I don't know, I just, I'm a huge, huge fan of the wood, wood crank bait.
Would you say that to your average angler, they would have to tune a wood bait
more than they would a plastic one?
Do you think one runs more true than the other one or not necessarily?
No, not necessarily. I mean, you run into the plastic crankbaits that need tuning also.
(17:11):
I mean, the last couple depth readers I got for you, I really had to tune those.
Same with the musky train stuff. Some of them run great right out of the package.
Some of them a few of them a
year off of tune but that's that's fine with me i mean
a lot of them i actually like i was saying i like almost knocking
a hair out of tune so they're running good at four
(17:31):
miles an hour and you want to every single bait you stick in the water when
you're trolling you set it next to the boat and make sure it's running true
before you ever stick it out so that way that alone needs line tangles that's
that's a really really important thing every time that i set one out i check
it i mean especially after you've caught a fish on one it They could have got
banged against the side of the boat, but always be checking them.
(17:54):
But I like the wood ones because, like I said, I knock them out of tune a little
bit, and they'll run perfectly straight at four miles an hour.
But once you kick it up to four, two, four, four, or when you're on a turn,
your outside planer board or your outside rods are going to be going a lot faster,
and sometimes they'll even have the crankbaits out of tune, so they're blowing
(18:15):
out of the water. But when you straighten back out, they straighten again.
So there's fish behind them. When they do that crazy stuff, a lot of times they
get smoked. I really found that out on Lake St. Clair.
My buddy that I was working with was like, hey, your baits are blowing out of
the water. I'm like, no, they're fine.
So as you get back again and line again, a fish smokes them.
(18:35):
So I don't mind if some of them are blowing out of the water when they're going faster on turns.
That just means that they're doing more erratic stuff.
Yeah, that's interesting. You know, Jeff, I don't know if you can explain this
over a podcast, but can you kind of talk about how you tune baits?
Because I will say, I think in my lifetime, I had like maybe one bait that I
(18:57):
couldn't get to tune in and maybe, maybe it's a couple more than that,
but I can think of one that I couldn't get to tune and we played with it and played with it.
And even Tony Spicker, I had him in the boat from, used to be the owner of Big
Game Tackle and I had him in the boat and he played with it and we still couldn't
get it dialed in exactly perfectly,
you know, and I think a lot of anglers just, they put their crankbait out there
(19:19):
and they set it and they expect it to run perfectly every time.
Are you able to kind of talk a little bit about tuning a crankbait?
Yeah, the easiest tool to tune with by far is definitely alignment pliers.
You can really get a hold of the screw right in the front or the wire that's coming out.
And just the first thing to do is either if it's going to the right,
(19:39):
bend it to the left. If it's going to the left, bend it to the right.
And sometimes if that doesn't work, you can take the lines of pliers and just
twist it either clockwise or counterclockwise, depending what the bait's doing.
But that's how you get them tuned. If it's going one way, then twist it back the other way.
But I guess yeah kind of hard to explain over
a podcast like when I'm guiding people I'm able to explain to
(20:00):
them visually a lot easier how
to do it but yeah a lengthened flyer is
definitely the easiest way to because it gets a hold of the
whole eye and and really gets it
versus trying to use like a needle nose
or splitting pliers or anything like that you just get a
hold of a lot better with the lengthened pliers and one
(20:20):
thing I'll add to that Jeff is much like you were talking about when you
tune the suic tail there's definitely a little
can go a long ways right so don't you don't
over crank these things yeah just lucia
i guess that's a good point the suic tail same with the
crankbait things people people show
up for trolling guy trips are like i can't get this to
(20:42):
work and they got the screw right completely bent over
that's that's way way too too much just a slight
slight little bend does a lot especially in the crankbait that you're trolling
at four four and a half mile an hour just a little little twist or tweak does
does a lot on it so jeff you talked about having you know people in your boat
(21:02):
if people are looking to get in touch with you this year to get out and fish
with you or is that something that you have availability.
Yeah i got one day left in may two or three left in june a couple in july that fall is pretty wide
open yet i'm usually booked about two months in advance i'm
booked solid so i got some stuff left for
this year yet excellent and what's the
(21:25):
phone number they got a website what how do you want to go about that it is
madison musky guide.com that has my email and my phone number on there and then
it has any question you could possibly ask is is on there and then you can go
in there and see a lot of the big fish that my customers have caught too i got
quite a few fish pictures on
there what i really want to know is do you have availability for next tuesday to panfish,
(21:51):
nope i don't i don't do any of that,
all right jeff so before we get you out of here we kind of talked about you
know crank baits we talked about jerk baits but one thing people
don't always think about would be top water baits
and i'm talking i mean there's a few maybe
tail rotating top waters out there these days but less and less i would say
(22:12):
it's more in that creeper range you know do you find much of a difference between
you know wood versus plastic when it comes to top water baits yeah definitely
one of my favorites from years ago was always the hyphen hog buster and those were always made.
From wood for a lot of years and also hyphen switched them
over to plastic and i i noticed
that they didn't have a similar sound and
(22:35):
the big fish i was catching on them definitely went down and then
since chuck took over or got the
hyphen creepers from hyphen he changed
it back to wood and they are back to
the way they used to be my daughter caught her biggest muskie of her life
this year on one that the dog busters are
on like they used two years ago the sound is just
(22:58):
totally different with them and just seem to get more
hits on same with the like walk the dog.
Style top waters like the one-eyed willy that's
made from maple is a really really good one
like versus like a dock made out of plastic i've
got way way more big fish on one-eyed willies they just
seem to make a different noise in
the water i don't know what's more natural to the fish but definitely
(23:20):
make a lot a lot better noise so if i can get a
wood top water i would prefer it i mean
nowadays pop style ones i don't even really know
of any wood ones of that prop
style that are even made anymore do you not that i
can think of i mean you know the more popular ones are
you know like a lake x fat bastard that's definitely plastic even
(23:41):
like senate tackle pacemakers those are all plastic you can
i think maybe get a couple in wood yet but i'm not positive
so i i don't know many of them and it's
funny you bring up the you know like the walk the dog style because like
back when i first started musky fishing like the
weagle was all the rage and now it's you don't
even hardly hear about walk the dog top water baits anymore i'm assuming you
(24:03):
must do really well with them every year right yeah absolutely the the one-eyed
willie juniors i throw a lot of that's a producer for me but yeah you're right
i mean i very rarely see guys the water using in them anymore,
which I don't understand why, but yeah, same thing with the Weagles.
I mean, that's a good bait too, but I very rarely see guys throwing them.
(24:26):
The big thing nowadays is pop styles and then flattails.
I mean, I see a million guys throwing flattails now, whereas you never used to see that here.
No, definitely. I would say, like you said, the Flaptail has exploded,
I'd say, especially, I mean, it's got a lot of big fish notoriety.
That MK65 and the C4 from Bomb Squad, those are probably two of the most popular
(24:49):
ones out there. So definitely exploding.
But like I said, I mean, I remember like just the, the Weagle hysteria and how
guys were just like, almost like fighting over to try to get a Weagle.
And now you barely even hear about them and it's crazy. And I always think sometimes
it's like what's old is new so i feel like the you know those muskies are still
going to bite that bait and it's just underutilized tool right right yeah i know i talked to.
(25:15):
Jeff that makes the bomb squad stuff he's was going to be making a smaller tomahawk
prop which the the big one that's just i mean i don't use a lot of those giant
giant top waters here i haven't done as well on them and he had told me this
winter that he'd be making a smaller one and And that'll be wood.
So I'm pretty, pretty excited for, for that bait. So hopefully that comes out sometime soon.
(25:38):
Yeah, hopefully. I know he's a busy guy too. He just bought musky bumper.
So he's still working his way through that too. But yeah, I agree.
You know, Jeff, I just want to thank you for taking time out of your schedule.
I, I hope that, you know, people listen and they like the information they got today.
I also hope they, if they're in a market to come down to the Madison area,
they give you a call because I mean, I can't vote for you enough.
(25:59):
We've had some you know we've had some tough days because it
is muskie fishing but i don't know that we've ever had a day where
we haven't at least had an opportunity to put the fish in the
net but we've also had some opportunities to put many many fish in the net and
i would say more often than not we're putting multiples versus just you know
just having a little bit of action so it's been i can't vouch for you enough
jeff i and i thank for you thank you for your time yeah yeah no problem man
(26:23):
thanks for thanks for having me i want to thank all of our listeners again for
tuning in for another episode and I will have another episode of the Team Rhino
Outdoors Muskie Fishing Podcast out again next week Monday so thanks again.
Music.
Music.
(00:06):
Welcome to another episode of Muskie Talk Monday on the Team Rhino Outdoors
Muskie Fishing Podcast.
This week I'm going to talk to Jeff Hansen, Madison Muskie Guide Service,
and we're going to give a little bit of update on what to expect for Southern Wisconsin opener.
We're just two weeks away, I believe, by the time you hear this podcast,
from when that's going to be rolling in Southern Wisconsin.
(00:28):
So we'll go over a little update on that, kind of water temperature thing,
and maybe what to expect on that.
That and then we're going to talk wood versus plastic whether it
be crankbaits jerkbaits or top water baits kind
of the you know the differences between both when
you use one versus the other what some have to
offer versus what others don't have to offer so we kind of
go down that road a little bit too just to we're just talking gear
(00:50):
and so that's part of the gear nothing you know super groundbreaking
we're not talking about the newest and latest baits but
definitely you know stuff to help you potentially put
another fish in the net this year and if you're you
know speaking of the latest and greatest in gear if you're looking
for gear for your next musky fishing adventures make sure you check out
team rhino outdoors.com this week we've seen
(01:10):
livingston krakens custom quad dogs h2o
tackle those are things just to name
a few the the krakens have been selling well
and from what i understand if you don't get one sooner than
later you probably have to wait till july to get
them custom quad dogs i believe we had 10 new
colors show up pretty good numbers of all of them so by
(01:32):
the time you hear this podcast there should be some but if you're looking to the
to get the quad dog from musky innovations definitely check that out
and like i said roger from h2o tackle good.
Friend of me we've been knowing each
other for well before the team rhino outdoors even existed
and so he's got me reloaded on shallow baits
perfect i mean his stuff is shallow cranky nitros if you're looking for shallow
(01:53):
water application stuff i mean it's not going to go much more than a foot down
two feet down at the very very most you know perfect for early season especially
if you get the cranky nitro half tail shallow you know it's a bigger profile
but it if you're looking to stay shallow the perfect.
Opportunity for perfect bait for that opportunity so go
check those out on our website team rhino outdoors.com in
(02:17):
the coming weeks we're going to talk a little bit about a new bait
that we have coming out it'll be exclusive to us and the
manufacturer so stay tuned that's coming
soon and there might be a few listeners if you're
in the muskie academy that's a online
group with with jeff van remortal from
wd or wdh guide service
(02:39):
yeah he's up there in northern wisconsin he's
got his muskie academy group he's kind of spread the word a little
bit in that group but outside of that it's still a.
Little bit hush hush we're still working out a few things on it
but coming very soon or at least the
details are coming soon and hopefully about the
time that everybody's looking for this type of bait they should have
it in their head be able to get it here at teamrideoutdoors.com but
(03:03):
i rambled for three minutes time to go dial up my conversation i
have with jeff hansen my guest
this week on the podcast is going to be jeff hansen and
we're going to talk a little bit about kind of what we'd expect for
spring opener in the southern
wisconsin zone but we want to talk wood versus
(03:25):
plastic particularly when it comes to crankbaits and
jerk baits jeff how are things going today thank you
for your time oh good good just uh float
a little windy today but uh yeah nice nice day
today absolutely and so let's talk
about this season a little bit you're gonna be running around in a
new boat huh you're gonna have new recon is that right yeah yeah i got around
(03:48):
2085 a 20 foot six tiller that's 97 inches wide it's a hell of a tiller in my
opinion about the best musky tiller that's out right now for sure We're pretty
excited to get that, supposed to get that on Monday.
Can't wait to put some up. Yeah, fingers crossed that that works out.
I mean, I know with all the craziness since, you know, COVID started,
(04:10):
it seems like nobody's delivering boats on time these days.
But I hope that everything works out for you. But, you know,
I'm also hoping that I get a chance to come down. And I know that my buddy Steve
Jensen, he's up there fishing at Recon.
And I mean, they're great boats from everything I can tell.
They're, you know, they're made here in Wisconsin and they're pretty sweet rides.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very super nice people.
(04:32):
And been great to work with are you actually going to
put locators on this boat because it seems like you're one of those guys that's still
you're not worried about the latest and greatest forward-facing sonar
type stuff you're pretty much just maybe halfway using side imaging but for
the most part you just do it by feel it seems like yeah i got one helix 12 in
the back of the boat and that's all i need i don't have any of the side scan
(04:56):
or any of that stuff for me i got Yeah, I got side imaging,
but the only time I really use it is if I'm open water trolling or casting,
because otherwise there's so many weeds here in Madison, that's all you can see.
So there's not much use for me using it casting, except for if I'm fishing way open water.
So you mean to tell me you can catch muskies without $40,000 in electronics in your boat?
(05:18):
Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, I've been fishing these lakes since I was a kid.
I mean, if I was going to be fishing new waters, I would maybe think about investing
it. But I mean, I know these lakes like back of my hand, so there's no sense
in me dropping the money and stuff like that for me.
Let's talk a little bit about what we think is going to go on for opener.
(05:38):
Well, since we're talking lakes and fishing, let's talk about that.
Yeah, the season, we had such a warm winter, which I hate.
We had such bad weeds last year and such shallow water.
When we don't have thick ice, especially with thick ice with lots of snow on
it, that totally blocks off any sunlight.
(05:59):
And when we have years with the heavy ice and a lot of snow,
it kills off all the weeds. They don't get any sunlight during the wintertime and they're gone.
We start with a clean bottom at the end of the year, but that didn't happen this year.
There's still weeds from last year and I
talked to a couple guys today that had been out and said
that there's good weeds already which is way too early
for that so there's going to be good weeds for
(06:21):
opener which normally there's not here we've got
way above normal temps so the fish have been a little bit further
along in the spawn than what they did so should be
a lot more post-spawn muskies than there have been the
last couple years the last couple years fish are still spawning here and
opener year and that should not be the case this
year with how warm water's been but we
(06:42):
had a lot of low water too we had a couple inches of rain
the last few days so that should help but the masts and lakes are
still really really low and you know
you said you've been fishing these since you were a kid have you seen
anything like this before and if you if you
have how do you think it's going to play out yeah i've
seen years like this in the past typically it's
(07:05):
there's there's good fishing right off the bat especially the start getting
some bigger females earlier last year they didn't
start going good until like the third fourth week in may
because they hadn't recouped from spawn yet this year they should
so should be getting some bigger fish earlier than in may than what what we
normally do but hopefully we just don't get a lot of weather in may and early
(07:27):
in june because that would suck if we end up with 80 degree water temps and
in june so So hopefully we get some cool weather ahead and they're at least.
Yeah. All right. So kind of gives you a preview. Expect, you know,
lots of weed growth and things to be fairly ahead for the southern opener here in Madison.
But Jeff, the reason we want to talk was, you know, you've wanted to talk about
(07:48):
it for a while is wood, wood baits versus plastic baits.
You know, let's, uh, let's, first off, let's start off with Suex because that's
one we can compare the two baits right there. Wood, wood versus plastic.
What do you, I know you, I know you like it. both I particularly prefer the
weighted wood ones 10 inch in particular you know if you if you could only pick
(08:09):
one which one are you gonna pick and you know let's maybe talk about why,
It depends on the time of year, too. You know, early in the spring,
I really like the weighted sevens. Those put a lot of fish in the boat for me.
Then pretty much after May, I put hang those up in the garage,
and I don't use them the rest of the year.
June, I'm throwing weighted nines, and then a lot of the nine-inch plastic high-impact.
(08:32):
Years ago, when Steve Seward first told me, he's like, yeah,
we're going to start making plastic suics. I'm like, oh, no, why would you do that?
But one thing with the high-impacts is they are consistent.
I mean, you buy one, and then you get another one later on. It's going to work the same way.
Versus wood, you're never going to have that because of the grain in the wood.
(08:52):
The weight of the wood is all different.
There's more inconsistencies with the plastic. So you get baits that do the
same thing when you're buying plastic ones, wood ones. Each one does something different.
All in all, I probably caught more on wood. And some of my biggest fish have
been on wood, particularly 10-inch weighted wood suics. I mean,
I just, that's a standby for me.
(09:15):
I mean, I've caught so many big fish, untenant weighted suex,
wood ones since I was a kid.
But the plastic ones are good too.
And if you, you can actually tune some of the plastic ones to do some more erratic
stuff than you can the wood ones. But I like both.
I'm in a place for both of them. Well, you said, you talked about the inconsistencies of wood.
(09:36):
That can also be, that's a negative and a positive, in my opinion.
And the inconsistency sometimes is like you get that wood bait and this is not
only with, you know, jerk baits, but crank baits as well.
And sometimes that wood bait literally just has like what we'll call it, right?
I mean, it wobbles different, it hangs different, potentially depending upon,
(09:56):
you know, how many, how often you've used it.
Sometimes they suck up some water and, you know, add some extra weight to it.
Like those are all things that can definitely be a positive to wood baits as well.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've got some 10-inch wood Suics that have the magic.
I mean, they're just erratic as hell.
I mean, I like my Suics not only to have a nice hop to them,
(10:17):
but be able to kick out side to side, and those are the ones that seem to get the most hits.
I know you and I have done a couple of Suic videos. You can see how I tune my
Suic and some of those YouTubes and how I bend them.
But if I can get them kicking out side to side, I, they definitely outperform
the ones that are just doing a straight hop.
(10:37):
And some of the wood ones, you can just get a hop on them. They don't want to
kick out to the side. Just depends on the graining of the wood, the weight of the wood.
They're just all, all different. I mean, they're, they're all good,
but some of them, like you said, are, are it. They have the, they have the magic.
Then on the converse side, sometimes with the wood though, you also have the one that is not it.
That is very difficult to tune. Usually I can get, I'm pretty good at suics,
(11:01):
right? I can get them to tune in, but there are sometimes occasionally with
those wood ones where you can't quite get it to do exactly what you want it to do.
That would be the only downside, I would say, to a wood suick.
Yeah, and that's actually, customers always ask me if they could bring baits
for me to tune, both crankbaits and suics, and I probably have more people bring
(11:21):
suics than any other bait combined.
It's because people try and over-tune them.
Some of the bends on some of the tails, some people do it with pliers,
and it's just absolutely crazy. Some of the suics that I've had people bring,
I had a guy last year bring 10 of them for me.
I just laughed when he opened the box at how he had them, had them bent.
People just overthink it and just bend them way too much. You don't need to
(11:43):
do that flight modification with all those suics, get them doing.
Yeah, for me, I, I just make a, a really slight bend down on the back of the tail.
And I, I don't bend like side to side at all on the tail.
You don't do any side to side bending, do you? Like as far as like the little bits on the fins?
Yeah, I mean, I put my thumb in the center of it and cup it around my thumb
(12:04):
and then just a slight bend down and you can see that video that we did.
I guess that's the best way to explain it if you want to see it.
Yeah, you might have to go back a little ways on, well, I think I have it on
the page on, you know, I think it's, you know, saved onto the SUIC page.
But otherwise, if you go to our YouTube channel, you can find it there.
And the thing about it, though, is it's, you might have to go find it a little
(12:25):
ways because, Jeff, it's been quite a while since we've done any filming together.
Hopefully that changes this year.
Yeah, the Suic one, believe it or not. That was in 2018.
Wow. I can't believe it's been that long. Holy cow.
Well, then, so how long has it been since we had, what was it,
10 fish that we had that day?
Yeah, that was 2018 or 2019. Okay. Man, we're getting old fast.
(12:48):
Yeah. Yeah, you and I never fished last year. I don't think we've ever fished
in the last couple of years.
Yeah, the year before you came down in October, you got four trolling with me that day,
but they're smaller than the fall okay oh yeah
that's right i do remember that yep all right well let's
let's talk a little bit about crankbaits because you know
there's obviously differences there too you know
(13:11):
first off wood crankbaits are getting harder and harder to find you you know
you're talking like loks and musky trains and boss sheds and supernaturals bn
customs i'm sure i'm missing somebody and they're going to yell at me but those
are the ones i can think of you know oh yeah yep Yep. The Leo lures too.
Yep. See, I knew there was going to be somebody that was going to yell at me for leaving them out.
(13:33):
It wasn't by design, but you know, what, what is it that you like about,
you know, wood versus crank or wood versus plastic when it comes to cranks?
The wood, to me, you can tune them easier.
You can get them to do more crazy stuff. A lot of the plastic stuff,
especially if the screw eye is molded into the bait, if you tweak on it too
(13:53):
much, you'll actually crack the plastic.
Like Jake's and Grandma's and some of that, if you really tweak on that screw
eye, you'll crack them, and then they leak and sink.
Versus the wood baits, you can really tweak them and get them to do a lot of
different things. I mean, everybody that knows me know I run a ton of muskie
trains that are made from cedar.
(14:14):
I've got a lot of really big fish on them, and I can get them to do a lot of crazy things too long.
I mean, some of them I'll tweak so that even on turns, sometimes it'll blow out of the water.
If I'm turning, sure, if they get going fast because they're so erratic, but that's what I want.
If they're doing crazy stuff, then the fish are more likely to hit them.
But I can definitely seem to get more big fish, wood crankbaits than I do on plastic for me.
(14:40):
You know, I've trolled depth readers in my life probably more than everything else combined.
I've only ever got 150 on a depth reader in my life. Some people will probably
disagree with that. They've got a lot of 50s on them, but I just haven't.
And I haven't been running musky trains as long as I've been running depth readers,
and I got way, way more 50s on those.
And it's just i don't know
(15:02):
they're more natural to the wood baits
don't really have rattles in them so it might be more natural to
the fish too to me but i've definitely outproduced
plastic crankbaits trolling with wood by far i mean like most of the charter
captains on lake st claire they're all running wood baits you know they're running
ziggies musky trains blokies leos stuff like that but not running a lot of plastic
(15:24):
baits and i've spent a lot of time trolling there but But to me,
the biggest thing is just being able to tune them,
getting them to walk erratically and do what you want.
I guess that's, that's the biggest thing for me. I was going to ask you,
you know, about, about the rattles.
You said they are, you know, that the plastic, obviously many of them are offered
(15:46):
rattles and how wood isn't.
I was going to ask you, you know, if that, if you thought that had,
that had a potential impact on the abilities to catch large fish,
you know, if you're seeing more fish catching, you know, big fish on wood,
if it was the, the rattles that would do it.
Yeah to me stuff with rattles
in it i seem to catch smaller fish on
(16:07):
it than really really big fish and again i've
caught way more fish in the 52 to 54 inch range of wood cranks by far than anything
with with plastic i don't know why i know a lot of guys caught big fish on plastics
too but just not in my experience and rattles seem to be small smaller fish
(16:28):
for me definitely I mean,
the plastics that I troll have, that they have rattles in them,
you know, or depth raiders,
tough shads, we'll have copfish up to 48 on, on tough shads,
but they catch bigger fish on the wood cranks, you know, like diesels and MX-6s, 7s,
9s, particularly in the 9s, got, I mean, 51, 52 inch fish on them.
(16:50):
I don't know, I just, I'm a huge, huge fan of the wood, wood crank bait.
Would you say that to your average angler, they would have to tune a wood bait
more than they would a plastic one?
Do you think one runs more true than the other one or not necessarily?
No, not necessarily. I mean, you run into the plastic crankbaits that need tuning also.
(17:11):
I mean, the last couple depth readers I got for you, I really had to tune those.
Same with the musky train stuff. Some of them run great right out of the package.
Some of them a few of them a
year off of tune but that's that's fine with me i mean
a lot of them i actually like i was saying i like almost knocking
a hair out of tune so they're running good at four
(17:31):
miles an hour and you want to every single bait you stick in the water when
you're trolling you set it next to the boat and make sure it's running true
before you ever stick it out so that way that alone needs line tangles that's
that's a really really important thing every time that i set one out i check
it i mean especially after you've caught a fish on one it They could have got
banged against the side of the boat, but always be checking them.
(17:54):
But I like the wood ones because, like I said, I knock them out of tune a little
bit, and they'll run perfectly straight at four miles an hour.
But once you kick it up to four, two, four, four, or when you're on a turn,
your outside planer board or your outside rods are going to be going a lot faster,
and sometimes they'll even have the crankbaits out of tune, so they're blowing
(18:15):
out of the water. But when you straighten back out, they straighten again.
So there's fish behind them. When they do that crazy stuff, a lot of times they
get smoked. I really found that out on Lake St. Clair.
My buddy that I was working with was like, hey, your baits are blowing out of
the water. I'm like, no, they're fine.
So as you get back again and line again, a fish smokes them.
(18:35):
So I don't mind if some of them are blowing out of the water when they're going faster on turns.
That just means that they're doing more erratic stuff.
Yeah, that's interesting. You know, Jeff, I don't know if you can explain this
over a podcast, but can you kind of talk about how you tune baits?
Because I will say, I think in my lifetime, I had like maybe one bait that I
(18:57):
couldn't get to tune in and maybe, maybe it's a couple more than that,
but I can think of one that I couldn't get to tune and we played with it and played with it.
And even Tony Spicker, I had him in the boat from, used to be the owner of Big
Game Tackle and I had him in the boat and he played with it and we still couldn't
get it dialed in exactly perfectly,
you know, and I think a lot of anglers just, they put their crankbait out there
(19:19):
and they set it and they expect it to run perfectly every time.
Are you able to kind of talk a little bit about tuning a crankbait?
Yeah, the easiest tool to tune with by far is definitely alignment pliers.
You can really get a hold of the screw right in the front or the wire that's coming out.
And just the first thing to do is either if it's going to the right,
(19:39):
bend it to the left. If it's going to the left, bend it to the right.
And sometimes if that doesn't work, you can take the lines of pliers and just
twist it either clockwise or counterclockwise, depending what the bait's doing.
But that's how you get them tuned. If it's going one way, then twist it back the other way.
But I guess yeah kind of hard to explain over
a podcast like when I'm guiding people I'm able to explain to
(20:00):
them visually a lot easier how
to do it but yeah a lengthened flyer is
definitely the easiest way to because it gets a hold of the
whole eye and and really gets it
versus trying to use like a needle nose
or splitting pliers or anything like that you just get a
hold of a lot better with the lengthened pliers and one
(20:20):
thing I'll add to that Jeff is much like you were talking about when you
tune the suic tail there's definitely a little
can go a long ways right so don't you don't
over crank these things yeah just lucia
i guess that's a good point the suic tail same with the
crankbait things people people show
up for trolling guy trips are like i can't get this to
(20:42):
work and they got the screw right completely bent over
that's that's way way too too much just a slight
slight little bend does a lot especially in the crankbait that you're trolling
at four four and a half mile an hour just a little little twist or tweak does
does a lot on it so jeff you talked about having you know people in your boat
(21:02):
if people are looking to get in touch with you this year to get out and fish
with you or is that something that you have availability.
Yeah i got one day left in may two or three left in june a couple in july that fall is pretty wide
open yet i'm usually booked about two months in advance i'm
booked solid so i got some stuff left for
this year yet excellent and what's the
(21:25):
phone number they got a website what how do you want to go about that it is
madison musky guide.com that has my email and my phone number on there and then
it has any question you could possibly ask is is on there and then you can go
in there and see a lot of the big fish that my customers have caught too i got
quite a few fish pictures on
there what i really want to know is do you have availability for next tuesday to panfish,
(21:51):
nope i don't i don't do any of that,
all right jeff so before we get you out of here we kind of talked about you
know crank baits we talked about jerk baits but one thing people
don't always think about would be top water baits
and i'm talking i mean there's a few maybe
tail rotating top waters out there these days but less and less i would say
(22:12):
it's more in that creeper range you know do you find much of a difference between
you know wood versus plastic when it comes to top water baits yeah definitely
one of my favorites from years ago was always the hyphen hog buster and those were always made.
From wood for a lot of years and also hyphen switched them
over to plastic and i i noticed
that they didn't have a similar sound and
(22:35):
the big fish i was catching on them definitely went down and then
since chuck took over or got the
hyphen creepers from hyphen he changed
it back to wood and they are back to
the way they used to be my daughter caught her biggest muskie of her life
this year on one that the dog busters are
on like they used two years ago the sound is just
(22:58):
totally different with them and just seem to get more
hits on same with the like walk the dog.
Style top waters like the one-eyed willy that's
made from maple is a really really good one
like versus like a dock made out of plastic i've
got way way more big fish on one-eyed willies they just
seem to make a different noise in
the water i don't know what's more natural to the fish but definitely
(23:20):
make a lot a lot better noise so if i can get a
wood top water i would prefer it i mean
nowadays pop style ones i don't even really know
of any wood ones of that prop
style that are even made anymore do you not that i
can think of i mean you know the more popular ones are
you know like a lake x fat bastard that's definitely plastic even
(23:41):
like senate tackle pacemakers those are all plastic you can
i think maybe get a couple in wood yet but i'm not positive
so i i don't know many of them and it's
funny you bring up the you know like the walk the dog style because like
back when i first started musky fishing like the
weagle was all the rage and now it's you don't
even hardly hear about walk the dog top water baits anymore i'm assuming you
(24:03):
must do really well with them every year right yeah absolutely the the one-eyed
willie juniors i throw a lot of that's a producer for me but yeah you're right
i mean i very rarely see guys the water using in them anymore,
which I don't understand why, but yeah, same thing with the Weagles.
I mean, that's a good bait too, but I very rarely see guys throwing them.
(24:26):
The big thing nowadays is pop styles and then flattails.
I mean, I see a million guys throwing flattails now, whereas you never used to see that here.
No, definitely. I would say, like you said, the Flaptail has exploded,
I'd say, especially, I mean, it's got a lot of big fish notoriety.
That MK65 and the C4 from Bomb Squad, those are probably two of the most popular
(24:49):
ones out there. So definitely exploding.
But like I said, I mean, I remember like just the, the Weagle hysteria and how
guys were just like, almost like fighting over to try to get a Weagle.
And now you barely even hear about them and it's crazy. And I always think sometimes
it's like what's old is new so i feel like the you know those muskies are still
going to bite that bait and it's just underutilized tool right right yeah i know i talked to.
(25:15):
Jeff that makes the bomb squad stuff he's was going to be making a smaller tomahawk
prop which the the big one that's just i mean i don't use a lot of those giant
giant top waters here i haven't done as well on them and he had told me this
winter that he'd be making a smaller one and And that'll be wood.
So I'm pretty, pretty excited for, for that bait. So hopefully that comes out sometime soon.
(25:38):
Yeah, hopefully. I know he's a busy guy too. He just bought musky bumper.
So he's still working his way through that too. But yeah, I agree.
You know, Jeff, I just want to thank you for taking time out of your schedule.
I, I hope that, you know, people listen and they like the information they got today.
I also hope they, if they're in a market to come down to the Madison area,
they give you a call because I mean, I can't vote for you enough.
(25:59):
We've had some you know we've had some tough days because it
is muskie fishing but i don't know that we've ever had a day where
we haven't at least had an opportunity to put the fish in the
net but we've also had some opportunities to put many many fish in the net and
i would say more often than not we're putting multiples versus just you know
just having a little bit of action so it's been i can't vouch for you enough
jeff i and i thank for you thank you for your time yeah yeah no problem man
(26:23):
thanks for thanks for having me i want to thank all of our listeners again for
tuning in for another episode and I will have another episode of the Team Rhino
Outdoors Muskie Fishing Podcast out again next week Monday so thanks again.
Music.
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