Episode 33 - Pete Maina talks early season musky

Welcome to an intriguing episode of the Team Rhino Outdoors Muskie Fishing Podcast! Dive into the enthralling musky fishing world as we switch up our usual Muskie Gear Monday topics to talk about the eagerly awaited Northern Wisconsin season, musky conservation, and exciting new gear from Livingston Lures. We also tackle the timeless debate of old versus new baits and nets.

Learn from shared experiences about how to adjust to fluctuating temperate fishing conditions. Explore the importance of flexibility and planning for exploiting time-limited fishing opportunities. Gain insights into a rich discussion about musky fishing spots and the impact of rock size, vegetation types, and water depth.

Join us for an hour-long insightful conversation with Pete Mena, a legendary figure in musky fishing, with a wealth of knowledge and experiences to share. We cover topics including the looming season, spring spot variations, unpredictable weather's effect on fishing patterns, and the thrill of musky fishing.

In our discussion about lure selection, understand the role of bait size during different seasons. Discover why prioritising smaller baits, adapting to steady weather, adjusting bait based on temperature and utilizing old lures in innovative ways can enhance your fishing experience. Excitingly, we unveil the newest bait from Livingston Lures, the Big Makk, adding to the anticipation of its launch.

In this special episode, we also delve deep into the debate around high-quality fishing gear versus lure variety. For beginners, investing in high-quality, fish-friendly gear is emphasized before splurging on fancy lures. The need for sustainable fishing habits, protecting fish species without discrimination, and maintaining the fishing environment for the future are stressed.

End on a high note as we explore how the latest technology is offering game-changing tools in fishing for novice and experienced anglers alike. This podcast provides an insightful look into the rapidly evolving world of musky fishing, making it a must-listen for all fishing enthusiasts.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Music.

(00:06):
Welcome to another Muskie Gear Monday on Team Rhino Outdoors Muskie Fishing Podcast.
This weekend, we're going to talk to muskie fishing legend, Pete Mena.
And I would say, you know, this isn't going to be necessarily Muskie Gear Monday.
We talk a lot about the upcoming northern Wisconsin season. We talk a little
bit about conservation.

(00:28):
We talk about some new gear from Livingston Lures. We talk about just,
you know, some baits in general, how old is new and nets. That's just like a
whole jumbled conversation about musky fishing.
Longer conversation than what I've typically had on this podcast.
Usually we're trying to, you know, we're in that half hour range,
but this one's definitely going to be around that hour, maybe slightly over with this intro.

(00:50):
And so that's kind of what we have going on this week. You know,
getting back to that, that Livingston lure that we were talking about.
We, you know, Pete and I will kind of talk about it a little bit and we've talked about it with Herbie.
The new big mac from livingston comes out in probably two weeks ish maybe three
weeks possibly go check that out at team rhino outdoors.com you can sign up
using the out of stock notification.

(01:12):
Just go to click on big mac
and then where it says you know it would usually say like add to cart just
click on you know email me when available click that
link it'll take you to a different page you enter your email address
and you can sign up for one or as many colors as you're
looking for and that way once we drop the product
onto the website it automatically starts kicking out emails so that's the best

(01:35):
way for you to be in the first batch of Livingston Big Macs and from what I'm
told we will be the first retailer to have them so find them at teamrhinooutdoors.com first.
The other new product we want to talk about quickly if you listen to our Backlash
podcast podcast, you already know about it.
So this is going to be old news, but we have collaborated with Muskie Innovations

(01:58):
to come up with a new size bulldog.
This isn't like the, I mean, we didn't change the course of muskie fishing history with this one.
We just offer up a different size that kind of fits a niche, right?
So we're literally right between a reg dog and a mag dog for a.
You know bulldog enthusiasts you realize that there's a substantial
difference between you know them whether it's

(02:21):
weight size pull all that to do with you
know between the two sizes so we're literally this new bait
is mid midway like mathematically it's
definitely middle but it's weighted slightly heavier
than what middle would be so we're a tad
heavier might get a little bit deeper but
it's got a little bit more hop and if you pop it on a

(02:42):
slack line you can actually get it almost to you know pop
side to side a little bit like a like a not a really
you know wide swing gliding bait but you can get
it to pop a little bit side to side and not just you know
straightforward pull you know you're you know
it'll take a little bit of playing around with it you got to pop it on a slack line you
can't do that pull pause to get it to do that but if.
You pop it you can definitely get it to do that and so that's the

(03:04):
pit bull it'll be exclusively available at musky innovations
and at team rhino outdoors by the
time you hear this podcast i hope they have the product built and much
like i just told you about the big mac you can go on to the product you
can do the email me when available and as soon as
we get stock that we're going to sell of the new
pitbull it will kick you out in email and

(03:25):
you can go and purchase it at that time that one
is going to be a tad farther out we're looking at probably the
end of june possibly the beginning of july so
we're literally as i'm recording this right
now we're literally going to be pulling the first ones off the
mold so we'll have actual production baits here in
the next day or so likely by the time you hear this podcast and

(03:47):
we want to get them out to you know we'll
call loosely called pro staff or you know.
Select guides that we have them out to we want
them to fish them make sure that they are doing everything that we
thought they would do with the prototypes and that
way we can get them out to you and get get
you fishing but we want to make sure that it's right before

(04:07):
we we put it out not that it was wrong the prototype worked beautifully
and that's that's where we're at with that
it's a it's got the pro harness on there many many
anglers like the pro harness it's definitely the preferred choice and
we also have a shallow version of it with a pro harness and
if you in my opinion this is my opinion
it's the best shallow bulldog model that there

(04:29):
is out there i don't know if it's the pro harness it kind of gets
that head to bend down so you can hit it a little bit harder you can
get you can work it a little quicker and it gets a
just a a tad deeper than your typical shallow but i think also that's what helps
keep it in you know in the water a little bit more like a shallow dog you got
to do a pretty slow pull pause in my opinion in order to keep it you know in

(04:50):
the water because it does ride so high since it doesn't have any weight in it
this one's a little bit different and in my opinion like i said it's just my opinion,
It's the best shallow bulldog model out there.
So keep an eye out for the pit bull from a collaboration between Muskie Innovations
and Team Rhino Outdoors.
Available exclusively at those only two places. Those are the only places you're

(05:10):
going to find that bulldog.
And I don't have anything else. Like if you're looking for gear for your next
muskie fishing adventure, as I say on every podcast that I do,
make sure you check out TeamRhinoOutdoors.com.
That's your source for everything. Anything we talk about here in this podcast,
you can definitely find it there.
And with that being said i'm just going to dial up the conversation i had with
pete mayna he's uh everybody knows him he's a legendary musk and he's got lots

(05:32):
of insight to many different things and it's always a great time to talk to
pete so here's that conversation.
All right my guest this week is none other than pete mayna pete thank you very
much for coming on the podcast i very much appreciate it i know just you as
an outdoorsman how busy this time of

(05:53):
year is you know you're out there doing it all right walleyes chasing
turkeys down so you're constantly on
the run and so i appreciate you coming out and uh talking about we're kind of
giving a a preview of what's to come this seat you know what to expect for opening
weekend but also we're going to talk about some bait options for you know for
this summer in this time frame right now so thanks again pete appreciate it

(06:16):
oh you bet always good to be on and yeah i'm running I'm running a little tired.
I'm drinking some coffee right now. This whole turkey deal is kind of hard on
me because I'm up early every day.
And even if I don't have a tag to try and fill, I'm usually out scouting.
So, yeah, but you got to do both. You absolutely got to do both this time of year.

(06:37):
Turkeys are very addicting. They remind me of muskies. I find the crappies,
walleyes, and bass a little more relaxing.
It's kind of funny. with age, Jeff, I'm getting a little more accepting of the
whole idea of relaxing a little bit more and fishing those species,
but I'm still fired up when the muskie season opens, and I'll be ready to go then.

(07:00):
Unfortunately, the turkey season finally ends before muskie season opens,
so at least I'll be getting a little more sleep.
Right. Yeah, you wouldn't want to have muskie season interfere with turkey season
and on top of the other multi-species stuff.
Right. Well, I think I've seen recently you were on John Gillespie,
I believe, and I think you show up on his show periodically.

(07:22):
But so you obviously are getting out and you've been on the water doing some
multi-species fishing anyway. So that's a plus as well.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, we were out and overall did pretty well.
Been it's been a little bit of a goofy spring with
with weed growth and some of the patterns although
frankly that's what i find the most interesting every year is trying to figure

(07:47):
out what's going on and it's always a lot of people you know are asked questions
and and ask for predictions and that's you know if you're honest that's like
the hardest part of all because every.
Year is just a little bit different what's what
what's one thing that's kind of funny that i've seen
in a lot of places i've been and i haven't been on a ton

(08:09):
of different lakes yet i guess about eight but
i'm i'm seeing some places where like
bay weeds that are normally the first
ones up are kind of behind and i've
seen some mid-lake humps that are
like way ahead head and it's it's
just kind of bizarre but it that's that's

(08:32):
why every year you can't you know if you had
a good spring spot the the spring prior
you can't just assume you know especially if you're
relying on weeds obviously if it's rocks or wood
that's a different ball game that doesn't change but the weeds
the weeds change every year and it's pretty amazing how
much they they can and and how different the

(08:54):
patterns can be in some of the prime spots every year yeah
that is interesting to hear about i would have thought that things
would have you know if if it's a head on one lake you
know it would be a head everywhere on the lake you know and that
and that kind of thing so it's it's interesting to hear that let's talk a little
bit about spawn like i i mean water temperatures wise do you think we're going
to be dealing with fish that are outside the spawn here coming up for this uh

(09:16):
opener oh yeah yeah if you're talking muskies it's which I assume you are, I think, yeah.
Yeah, but they're definitely done.
I've seen some scarred up ones on darker water.
I've had, I actually caught one muskie, hybrid muskie, filming with Gillespie,

(09:37):
and I've had two on on crappie jigs that were definitely males in darker water. And I would...
Possibly on some of the clear, deep lakes, they might not be completely done.
But temperatures are ranging anywhere from 54 degrees on up to 62.

(10:00):
So, you know, they're usually starting in, you know, right around low 50s, mid 50s.
So I'm sure everything will actually be complete here because we've got some
pretty warm days in the forecast coming up here.
So uh yeah we we definitely won't
be fishing for them in the spawn yeah speaking

(10:20):
of that warmer weather by the time people hear this that'll be passed
but we you know like warm weather wise i mean i want to say it looked like you're
talking 80 degrees over this weekend you know so we're it definitely things
are going to change you know quickly up there and in the north woods very but
but that's i guess as long as it doesn't get too warm too fast we've seen a

(10:41):
lot of that too you know, where,
you know, you're not so much this season, cause it feels like,
I don't know if we could use air quotes on normal spring.
It feels more like a normal spring this year where we've kind of had that gradual
warmup for the most part, but it seems like in the previous seasons recently.
We have that, you know, it's like April gets stuck at like 32 degrees every day.
And then, you know, May starts to warm up a little bit, but then at the end

(11:04):
of the month, when the musky season opens, it's like 90 degrees over,
over that weekend, you know?
So it's, it's nice to see that we're
making that normal progression i would say but you
know it we just hope it doesn't get too warm too fast oh that's
absolutely true i mean and it's been it's it's interesting the water temperatures

(11:24):
are normal or possibly even behind in my opinion up here considering how long
the lakes have been open so it's definitely been a gradual thing so far with
a few warm days we did have.
Day or two and and you know something a little warmer but yeah no it doesn't

(11:44):
look too extreme and and frankly is especially once musky season opens there's
there's nothing i hate worse than
a 90 degree day real early in in in season i mean for years and years and years
we talk about cold fronts cold fronts cold fronts cold fronts are tough and
they generally are uh we dealt with you know northeast wind and cold crappie

(12:06):
fishing last couple days and you know they're pretty
grumpy in the morning or whatever, you still catch them.
But there's, to me, there's nothing worse in the spring when the water temp's
still, you know, 60 degrees and all of a sudden you get one of those 85,
90 degree days with absolutely no wind.
And I think it puts them down, makes them tougher than even a cold front.

(12:28):
I'll take a cold front any day over that.
Yeah. It seems like, you know, that unseasonable temperature one way or the
other, you know, everyone talks like my non-fishing friends,
I I would say, you know, like when we get nice days in the fall,
they're like, oh man, it must be really nice to be on the water when it's,
you know, the fishing must be really great.
Like, eh, it's nice to be on the water, you know, in October,

(12:48):
if it's 70 degrees or 65 degrees, you're like, yeah, I'll take it.
It's the, it's comfortable, but it's the, the fishing for me,
isn't really that dynamite.
It seems like unseasonable one way or the other is never a great thing.
Yeah, and whenever it's a cooler water period, yeah, the worse it is.
I mean, you know, in late fall, they're assuming the normal thing,

(13:11):
obviously, is for the temperature to gradually drop.
And I just think it throws them a real curve when all of a sudden it's literally
going up instead of down.
And I did, that was one thing I usually got to be slapped in the face several
times before I learned. But I remember years ago, I was all excited to be out
by myself for a couple of days. And the weather was just beautiful.

(13:32):
And I can remember it dawned on me the second afternoon of running live bait and casting.
And it was just a beautiful day. And I was literally down to a t-shirt.
And I'm like, you know, this is really nice. But I have basically had nothing. I forget exactly.
It was too long ago. But I hadn't caught anything. I know that.

(13:53):
And seen very little. And that's when I, that's when I started putting that, that pattern together.
This might be nice, but it's really not very good for fishing.
Absolutely. Yeah. You get that last, uh, you know, Indian summer type situation.
It's yeah. Like you said, it's
beautiful, but it's, I've never found the fishing to be that fantastic.
Maybe others have done better, but I haven't, like I said, enjoyable,

(14:16):
but in, in, you know, part of it, you know, we all get caught up on the,
you know, the putting fish in the boat thing.
And then that obviously is the goal, but there are days where it is just nice
to just get away, right? Win, lose, or draw.
It's still fun to be on the water, trying to figure it out, enjoying just time
away from all the other, you know, stressors in life, I guess.

(14:37):
Oh, that is absolutely what it's about. And there's nothing wrong with going
and doing it. It's just a.
You know, the probability thing. And then to a certain extent,
you know, if people have very limited time,
it's always good to be able to pay attention to that limited time and a fairly flexible schedule,
because if you see that coming and you're able to, let's say,

(15:00):
you know, take two days out of a week to, to fish, if you, if you see something
like that coming and in late late fall, early spring,
you know, the, the, the extremely hot stuff or, or an extreme cold front,
you know, those, those are the days you do your work and, you know,
and, and, and either, either prior or after that high heat, that's,

(15:23):
that's when you prioritize to go and fish because there's no absolute rules,
but that's usually going to be real tough.
So, you know, the most important thing to you is catching a few fish,
you know, put the odds in your favor.
It's always good to plan that way if you can absolutely so pete i want to talk
about a couple things i want to talk about what you expect you know where where

(15:44):
you would start on this upcoming weekend but first of all let's talk about the
season in general you know you've been down this road i don't know a whole a
bunch of times right i mean how many years have you been musky fishing 30 40.
Ah well you don't really need to talk about that
we're pushing we're actually unfortunately we're
50 all right well i mean

(16:05):
on the plus at the plus side you've been able to enjoy 50 seasons right
and hopefully you got about 30 more left in you so oh
yeah you know but the season wise you've
obviously seen so many different weather patterns play out like with an early
ice out like we had even though you said in some instances we're not necessarily
too far ahead anymore you know do you suspect the way this has played out is

(16:27):
better for muskie fishing or would you much rather see a late spring like we'd seen probably,
I don't know, let's say the past three seasons for sure.
Yeah, you know, to be real honest, at this stage of my life,
I'm going to give a big fat I don't know, but I'm going to find out.
I can tell you, you know, what I would be looking for and this, that, and the other.

(16:51):
And that's just generally, considering what we already talked about,
most likely they're going to be well done spawning.
But there still may be some fish right in spawning bays because,
you know, obviously that also attracts a whole lot of forage and this, that, and the other.
And any shorelines, even if they're somewhat nondescript next to spawning areas,

(17:14):
can always be worth working down in any adjacent structures to that.
And then, of course, the open water right out from areas where the fish spawn
are just going to be high percentage zones.
Owns and you know from there i
you know i'm just literally the the the

(17:34):
thing i want to do the the quickest i
can without hurrying up too much is just trying to trying to pattern where most
of the fish are or sometimes even more importantly but importantly the ones
that'll bite you know the one thing that you can run into too is you can actually
find fish very shallow for instance.

(17:55):
Where you can literally see them visually without electronics or anything,
but you can't get them to bite.
You want to find the ones that are willing to bite. I talk about that quite
a bit and it sounds pretty simplified, but it is important.
I have seen times where with electronics,
eyeballs, everything, where you're literally seeing fish in three different zones,

(18:18):
deep shallow and in between but only only one zone do they seem to be willing
to bite or have any level of activity so those are the things that I'm looking
for and then obviously you.
Besides the depth also the type of
structure and and sometimes one
one thing with weeds is that i i've never

(18:41):
been able to figure that out completely either but certain
weed types will actually be a pattern as well there must be something that's
attracting the start of the food chain the minnows something they like about
it where where green cabbage might be good or Or sometimes this up here,

(19:02):
now we've got a lot of milfoil on some of the lakes.
There'll be a pattern to milfoil edges sometimes or not, but always be thinking about that as well.
The different vegetation types can hold more fish and actually be a key that you can target on.
And then deep side and shallow side.
In some cases, there aren't inside edges on weeds,

(19:27):
but in a lot of cases there are, and it's easy to get caught up in the old,
you know, you fish deep to shallow, and that main break is what everybody concentrates on.
If there's an inside edge or whatever, you want to check all of it.
You know, you kind of touched on a lot of different things there as far as like

(19:47):
structure goes. You know, I, I would say like, you know, rock isn't necessarily
something a lot of musky anglers target.
I think, you know, especially Northern Wisconsin anglers, we're looking for,
you know, weeds in shallow spawning bays at this time of year.
Do you find fish on rocks often here at this time of season? Absolutely.

(20:07):
That's going to be something I check. Chuck. The reason we get off on the weeds
a little bit more, at least in northern Wisconsin here,
is just that in a lot of cases, that's the vast majority of what we have,
and we have a little bit of wood.
We've got quite a few lakes that are literally, mole lakes literally do not

(20:28):
even have much for hard bottom, let alone, you know, bigger rocks that would actually hold fish.
Usually usually sand or gravel can
hold some fish too but it's always better if you got bigger rocks
you know actually provide some cover so
there's a lot of places that literally don't have it and another big factor

(20:48):
is is cribs although they're usually deeper in a lot of cases they may not be
the best thing in spring but you know that's that's something to check too so
just basically a checklist.
In discussing these things, what do you have and what do you prioritize?

(21:09):
So I go to a body of water. If it's a bowl lake, it's simple.
You beat the shoreline, you beat the better weed patches, whatever it might be.
There might be rocks or wood. That could be a pattern too. But then you've got
the open water thing. That's fairly simple.
But if you've got a more complicated lake.
You know, you, you, you, you at least prioritize. So you got an idea of what you're going to try.

(21:34):
So if you do have cribs, if you do have some nice rock spots,
and especially if they're different depth levels, you know, you've got some,
you know, five footers, some 12 foot stuff and even deeper stuff.
Well, you know, just prioritize what you're going to try and,
and, and make sure that you're, you know, you're paying attention as you go
to, to where you're seeing fish.

(21:55):
And especially if the fish are a little more active, I generally will prioritize
weeds over rocks, even where the, you know, there's some pretty good rocks available,
but they can be, they can be deadly.
I'd live, you know, there's, there's been several times I've had patterns where,
where the rocks were better than the weeds in bodies of water with that had

(22:17):
way more weed spots than rock spots.
So yeah, it's, it's definitely not just a fall thing.
It's it's definitely something that you
want to check and sometimes on sunny days
for whatever reason i don't know if that's a warm-up thing or whatever the the
first muskie i caught this year by accident that was that was sitting on a rock
bar and in five six feet of water all right so i mean nothing's off limits for

(22:41):
this coming weekend that's for sure let's let's talk about you know know, lure selection.
That's one thing that, you know, many get hung up on, you know,
if are you a proponent or an advocate of the, you know, early season,
small bait kind of thing, or are you pretty much just like, oh, we're musky fishing.
We're just going to start throwing the stuff that we would normally throw at,

(23:02):
you know, any time of the year.
Well, the odds, the odds on is still smaller stuff.
You know, I don't, I don't know why for sure. We've always theorized most of
the forage is smaller, but in reality, there's plenty of big stuff for fish to grab.
There's adult fish of all species running around, but I would say my starter

(23:25):
baits are going to be smaller jerkbaits, crankbaits, soft plastics overall,
and definitely spinners as well.
Well, there's going to be certain bodies of water, and that's knowledge of past history.
In some cases, you know, that'll change year to year, too.
But some bodies of water just have more of a propensity for favoritism towards

(23:50):
smaller or larger, even right away in the spring.
I can certainly tell people this. I prioritize the smaller baits.
Without a doubt I've caught more over the years on smaller baits without a doubt.
You definitely want to bring your big stuff. And the whole idea that you got

(24:11):
to wait for little baby ducks swimming around to use the top water,
you know, a lot of these things are more probabilities than rules, without a doubt.
And a general rule I always tell people is that if it's steady weather and warming up gradually,

(24:32):
which is what's supposed to happen in spring, we talked about this earlier,
that That fish like normal.
In fall, they like a gradual cool-down. Spring, they want a gradual warm-up. Any extremes are bad.
But if you have that, then there's more of a better odds, we'll say,
that they'll possibly be chasing bigger baits and faster baits,

(24:58):
if you've got what's normal for that time of the year.
And that's a good probability for the top otters and some of the more active type baits as well.
And then if you've got the high heat or the cold front, most likely you're gonna
have to be a little slower, you're gonna have to be a little more in the face.

(25:20):
You know, the soft plastics might come in, the rip jigging type stuff may come
in where you're hopefully gonna drop a bait right on top of a fish.
That's, that's going to be my general game plan.
You know, the, usually the erratic stuff with pauses, you know,

(25:41):
as in, in gliders there, it's really tough to beat a good glider jerk bait in, in the spring as well.
If it's a, if it's a tough bite, that's just traditionally always been, been a great bait.
And then these days with all of the fishing pressure, of course,
you're trying to think outside the box as much as possible too,
and have something new slash different,

(26:04):
which can include brand new, and it can include old lures that used to work
really well that people don't use all that much anymore, but, you know.
Always be thinking of those kinds of things as well.
Yeah. What's old is new, right? That's how that goes, especially with it when
it pertains to muskie fishing.
You know, all right, Pete, so we talked about a few,

(26:26):
you talked about a few things you talked about topwater baits and you talked
about new baits so it kind of leads me into
you know talk about the newest from livingston
lures the big mac i know that i had herbie on talking about it but we're inching
closer towards the release of this bait and i think when herbie and i recorded
that podcast it was man i pushed it out because we talked about the kraken as

(26:49):
well and we didn't have the kraken in hand so it but our conversation actually
took place in probably Probably, I don't know,
early part of March, and I hadn't had one in my hand yet. I hadn't played with one yet.
Have you had a chance to play with one? Because I have, and quite honestly,
I was very impressed with the lure.
I hope to get some video up here pretty quick of the noise it makes,

(27:09):
but it's got a lot going on.
I know you have some in your hands, I believe. Have you had a chance to throw it?
Well, yeah, but, you know, not really. I threw it, tested a whole bunch.
You know, this process all started last year.
We, you know, we try and make sure that, you know, it's always hard,

(27:30):
too, because you want to make it right, but you kind of want to get it out and fish with it right away.
But, yeah, I've thrown it quite a bit.
I have not actually thrown it seriously to try and catch fish yet.
My gut feeling is it's going to be tremendous.
I'm actually, I can very honestly say I'm more excited about it than I thought I would be in a weird way.

(27:53):
That sounds kind of silly, but it's a pretty impressive bait.
The sound is good. It's got some unique features.
It does have a ticker that's well positioned on a split ring so that you could
easily remove it completely. You could put on something heavier, something different.

(28:15):
You could add like a plastic stick, thicker wire, thinner wire for different
sounds if you want to have that clicker.
And probably it does rotate the opposite way in most tail baits,
which is kind of interesting.
But frankly, I don't think that's going to make any damn difference at all.

(28:36):
But the sound is very good. but there's
a there's a slot jaw whatever
it might be something that we want
to put in there for a variety of reasons that has
been more impressive to me than i even expected because the one the one issue
with with a fair amount of tail baits over the years is that they'll they'll

(28:59):
tend to roll a little bit and sometimes kind of bad especially at at higher
speeds and And the slot was,
frankly, to some degree, just to look different,
move a little water differently.
You know, all of that is probably creating subtle different sounds,
but also just to hopefully keep the bait level.

(29:20):
And that's the single most impressive thing to me with the bait,
that that has worked tremendously well.
Well, I mean, I can honestly say, at least from everything I've seen so far,
all the samples I've used, and I do have a couple of final production models
right now, and as fast as you can reel.

(29:42):
That basically doesn't even tip at all that you can tell,
which is really a good thing in a lot of cases, because people,
you know, everybody gets excited, but, you know, you have some,
one of the things you do in a lot of cases to trigger fish is,
is, uh, speed up when you see one coming and, you know, if the bait rolls completely,

(30:05):
you know, you might have the hooks out of position or this, that,
and the other. And so it's, uh.
I'm very impressed with it. I have not caught a single muskie on it because
I haven't really muskie fished with it, but I think it's going to be a tremendous bait.
Yeah, I just played around with it a little bit, just throwing it,
like you said, just to test it out because it was new to me and,

(30:25):
you know, I like to play around with new things that we have coming out and,
you know, much like you said,
when you, when you talked about the speed factor, I mean, I literally think
you could probably crank this thing about 10 miles an hour and I don't know
if it's still going to roll. It's, it's impressive that way.
Definitely has a nice plop. lots of lots of noise going on as
i think the other thing you didn't you meant you didn't mention is actually got a
rattle in the tail from what i'm from what i remember when

(30:46):
i was i was playing around with it like i said i want to shoot some video of
it but definitely a cool new option you know top water fishing is probably one
of the most exciting ways to catch a muskie i think i know that you know when
all my kids started out i i put them on top water first of all i didn't have
to worry about them getting hung up in the weeds all the time or rocks or or
wood or whatever so So it's easy that way.
It's hard to, you know, make a mistake as far as how you're reeling it.

(31:10):
You know, you can't mess it up, I guess. As long as the tail is,
you know, rotating on it, you're good to go.
And visually, it's the most exciting way to catch a muskie, in my opinion.
Oh, yeah, you know, I agree with that.
It's somewhat of a toss-up with the boat side stuff because that's always really exciting, too.

(31:31):
But, of course, with topwater, you can get a little bit of both,
especially get them coming in and then get them to hit at the side of the boat.
But, yeah, I think overall it is just the neatest thing.
And, yeah, fun to watch.
At the end of the day, it's that excitement level, you know,
that I think addicts all of us with the muskie thing.

(31:52):
And that, to some degree, is the same thing to my other addiction this time
of the year with trying to fool a turkey, and all of a sudden they come in real fast.
It really, really honestly does remind me of muskie fishing and why I got hooked on that stuff too.
So, yeah, I think it's going to be a real good date.
Folks are excited about it. And fortunately, it sounds like they're going to

(32:14):
be out on time, and you're going to be the first place that has them.
So that's, that's a good deal.
Absolutely. Yeah. We'll be, we'll have them right now. You can actually go check
it out on our website. We have a product built there.
If you want, use the out of stock product, sign up. You just basically click
on the product and then it'll say like, instead of saying like add to cart,
it says, email me when available.

(32:35):
You just click on that, enter your email address, and then you can get an email
as soon as the shipment comes in.
You know, from the time you hear this, based off what I hear,
we should probably be within weeks. We're not talking like, you know,
a long time out and the end of May to the very beginning part of June is the
timeframe for this bait to come out.
So, you know, we're, we're not talking way down the road, July, August.

(32:59):
I mean, we're literally talking just weeks out now from the release of this bait.
So it should be a fun one to play around with.
They're all, like I said, there's lots of great topwaters on the, on the market.
And this is just another one to add another place in your tackle box.
You can't have too many muskie lures, right? Yeah.
Oh, no, no, that really can't happen. And, yeah, the season is close.

(33:21):
And one thing I should mention with the Livingston stuff, I think in a way you
could argue it matters least with topwater lures that it does have the EBS technology.
But just a reminder on that, you know, the recorded baitfish sounds that the
bait makes intermittently,
it i have had fish hit

(33:42):
the walking bosses and stuff sitting completely still
that's one more little thing that you can
do if you got a real stubborn fish and you've got i don't
recommend it at first you know try direction changes and try speeding up and
whatever but you know if you've got a if you've got a fish that won't hit it
or you're just an inquisitive type and you're willing to take a risk sometimes

(34:06):
you know you can you can give that bait a little rip and just let it sit there and talk.
And I have seen them come up and whack it.
It's pretty amazing to watch that, especially if it happens real slow.
Sometimes they'll just kind of gradually do it.
It is really, really kind of neat stuff to watch. And then just in general,

(34:27):
don't, you know, prime topwater season is, you know, midsummer and into fall
up to turnover, in my opinion.
But definitely do not be afraid to try topwater right away, you know,
pretty early in the season, like we're going to be dealing with here right about
the time the bait comes out.
All right. Well, Pete, we've talked a lot about that or not a lot,

(34:49):
but a little bit about that. You know, let's, we're a week out.
Obviously things can change in the week, but like, let's say you're going fishing Saturday morning.
What's the first bait you're going to likely reach for out of your box?
Well i am going to crankbait
or crankbait or jerkbait with without a doubt me personally some of my favorites

(35:10):
i i actually my personal favorite livingston bait is is the jerkmaster so it
will depend off the you know depths weeds this that the other one of the one
of the baits i love this This time of the year,
a buddy of mine, Daryl Neibauer, makes a glider bait for bitten tackle called a warlock. I love those.

(35:36):
Steady weather, I might, you know, I might try the bucktail.
Just, you know, everything we talked about. I always keep a handful of jigs as well.
And then, of course, soft plastics. God, when you start thinking about it,
of course, Jeff, all the different things.
I really like the idea of having a few jigs, though, whether they're,
you know, hair or soft plastic type baits.

(35:58):
Something that drops really fast because every once in a while,
that's a killer when nothing else is working either.
There so you're just you it's almost basically like
you're aggressively walleye fishing a lot of people who
you know fish weeds for walleyes using jigs it's
it's more or less the same thing for muskies just different different

(36:18):
cadences on your retrieve but you're basically ripping that bait up and and
letting it drop back down and a very very good presentation to get aggressive
in the weeds too to actually purposely try and get right in there and kind of
rip through but i you You know,
I think the reason that works on a real tough day is just every once in a while
you get lucky enough to have that bait dropping right in front of a fish on the bottom.

(36:44):
I really think a lot of those types of strikes are just, well,
this is too easy, so I'm going to open my mouth and suck it in.
But my starter is always going to be the crankbait and jerkbait.
Depending on the weather determining my
retrieve again if it's normal weather i go

(37:05):
quicker in general and if it's
abnormal weather i'm gonna i'm gonna slow down and just uh you know try and
pattern the fish try it try a bunch of different retrieves more pauses less
pauses super erratic you know so go from there sure so pete going off of lures
for a second so on my other podcast that So we have,

(37:26):
we had a conversation about nets and I've determined I've yet to find a net
that I'm like, I think has every single quality that you're looking for.
But I, and I, and I'm, I may be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that you're
running the new clam nets for this season and possibly even last season, right?
Their new Colossus net. Is that right? Yeah.

(37:48):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have been, I was actually involved in mainly the mesh,
but the development of that, yeah, yeah, I've been running those since they came.
Sure, and they, you know, they redesigned them, I believe, late last season,
we have them available, that's one that I play, I play with,
I told you before, Pete, I play with toys, right, like I have a collection of nets from everything,

(38:10):
I have a collection of baits, in fact, I really need to sell some stuff, because,
you know, we come up with new colors and new stuff every year,
and we're, all we you know some of the filming stuff we do we're constantly
changing out colors so i have tons of stuff around you know how it is pete i'm
sure i'm sure you have the same problem.
I think i do but uh that's
yeah that that clam that that's one of them that i want to play with

(38:32):
this year just to see because you know we get you know anglers come
up to me especially at shows and they want to know this and that and
you know what i think of it and i didn't get a chance to but i
do know that after looking at that net over the winter
it definitely seems like it has a lot of qualities that look like
it's going to be a good solid net so i can give
feedback for people later on this season hopefully i put a few

(38:52):
fish in it but you know do you you have some thoughts
on it like what what do you what's the biggest advantage you think of
it over say any of the other nets not that there's issues with other nets but
just you know just offering up your your thoughts on it nets are not a topic
that we talk about real often but it's obviously a very big a big deal especially
the musky anglers well we should talk about it more than we do actually there

(39:14):
is in a away fishing in general,
not just muskies, but there's way too much focus on just catching and exact
sizes and stuff like that.
In my personal opinion, there should be a little more focus on enjoyment and
definitely more focus on preserving the resource because at the end of the day.

(39:35):
That's what we're all looking for, and that's what makes you a good angler.
You're only as good an angler as the health of the fishery you're fishing in, in all reality.
And a net is not necessarily referred to very often as a release tool,
but I could argue it's probably the most important release tool next to hook

(39:55):
cutters, I guess, bolt cutters, to make sure you've got that unless you're fishing barbless.
But the single most important thing to me is the mesh and the design being deep
enough to act as a tremendous cradle in the water after you get the fish in.
I mean, the change in the clam design was, you know, technically a good one,

(40:18):
but it was just the from perfectly round hoop to more of a teardrop style.
Which is, you know, somewhat cosmetic.
Medic but the same importantly the same
bag is there and it's it's a treated bag with
super super tight weave and very good coating
and it also essentially kind of

(40:39):
has a cradle built into the bottom of it
so that even even a really big fish in
a tall boat can can relax in
there once you once you get them in there and then the the
thing about the meshes is you absolutely do not
want mesh that's going to easily tangle you
do not want loose weave and and and

(41:01):
you never want hooks to be able
to penetrate through past the barb i've never
had it happen i've never had anybody report that it happens and i i i would
have to assume jeff that you've experienced it i know i have and and quite a
few people who have who have had different type mats and sometimes Sometimes

(41:23):
it's just a net bag getting old,
but there's not enough focus on it, frankly.
If you've got crappy mesh, it's like night and day, how badly the fish can get tangled up in there.
Actually, they can literally be injured in a lot of cases.
I've seen messes so bad you almost want to take a knife to it to start things

(41:46):
out, especially if you're trying to save the fish.
It's amazing how much less tangling you will get with a really good mesh that's
fairly thick, tightly weaved, and coated well.
And I'm not saying Clam is the only one out there.
I'm just telling you, you know, that was my main focus in designing it.

(42:06):
And I think it's tremendous for that.
And I've heard the same. That's one thing I always like that when,
you know, I have not heard any negativity, I can honestly say,
from people as far as those handling aspects of the net.
And I think the other features are very nice as well. So it's a good tool.

(42:30):
I mean, like I said, I, we got them, I think in January, so I haven't,
I didn't have a chance to, but I pulled it out.
It's got like, it's also got a locking telescopic handle on it.
So I think that's, you know, for, for anglers are looking to get a little extra reach out of it.
I think that's, I think it's going to be a good option.
You know, my buddy, Steve Jensen, you familiar with him? He fishes up there by you.
He's, he's got me sending him one up. I, it was funny.

(42:54):
We were at the Milwaukee show and before we come to, he looked at him in Chicago
and he liked it. And he's like, well, I tell you what, for the Milwaukee show,
you know, just I'll grab one from you at the show.
I was like, all right, that sounds great. So we, you know, Friday before the
show, I'm like, here, here's Steve, go ahead and take this one, put it in your thing.
Well, of course, Friday we sell everything we had from those nets,
except for the one that was in Steve's truck.

(43:15):
So I said, uh, Steve, I think I need you to go get that one out of your truck.
We're going to need that for the show. I got to try to, uh, we're going to try
to sell that this weekend. And of course, yeah, we sold it that weekend.
So I need to ship him one now, but.
Uh, yeah, he's, he's gonna get, I'm sure he'll give me some feedback on it on
top of, you know, like I said, I, I play with a lot of gear,
so it's definitely one I'm going to consider this year and, and, uh, put to use.

(43:37):
Cause I, like I said, I got to know what, what the latest and greatest, uh, gear will do.
And, you know, like you had talked about, it's not something we talk about a
lot, but you know, like everyone wants to talk about stocking and all that stuff.
And those are great conversations to have, but also, you know,
it's good to do everything that we can as anglers to minimize,
you know, risk to these fish.

(43:57):
Obviously you know we we all want to
we love catching them right i mean the best thing for them
would be not to stick sharp hooks in their face ever but that's
kind of i mean that's kind of what we're we're musky anglers
right so we're gonna have to do that but outside of
that we want to do everything we can to try to
you know release these fish and and get them back i

(44:17):
know you know not to you know preach too much but like
me i run gopros in my in my boat a lot and cameras
in my my boat a lot so nowadays i don't even take pictures i literally just
hold them up in front of a camera and i get my camera roll
you know i put get the fish unhooked i get a
camera rolling if i'm there by myself i literally hold it up in front of a camera
for five seconds maybe put it back in the water you know i'm i've done less

(44:42):
measuring these days i know i have a friend of mine he gave me a hard time because
my son catches his first muskie casting last year and he's like like, well, how big was it?
I don't know. 35 inches, 36 inches. I don't know. 37.
He's like, you didn't even measure your kid's first muskie. I'm like, Oh no.
Like I'm hoping he'll do better than that eventually. And maybe we'll,
you know, measure one at some point, but I'm like, if it's 36 or 38,

(45:04):
does it really matter at this point for him?
Like I'll tell him it's 36 and we'll, we'll shoot for better. Right.
You know? So it's like, I don't, I've gotten away from that,
you know, and teach their own, right. I mean, everybody's got their own reasons
why they do it and things like that.
But just be mindful, I guess, of proper handling and proper release.
And that's something that we all need to consider to try to do,
you know, a little bit better every season to try to preserve these fish as

(45:27):
long as we can. Oh yeah. Well, yeah.
Set good examples. That's, uh, that's the thing too, especially for those of
us that, uh, you know, do it for a living.
You know, you, you tend to forget when you've done it, you know,
for a long time that, you know, there's a whole lot of people that are starting out there.
So, you know, the examples that, that, that you set as a guide,

(45:49):
as you know, as, as someone that's, that's filming or whatever,
and what you talk about and, and, and these nets are extremely important.
There's definitely not enough focus on that. I think, I think people should,
you'll, you may hate to hear this, Jeff, but I know you agree.
You should actually, you know, rather than buy, you know, four or five new lures,
if you don't have a good quality net, that's good for the fish yet,

(46:13):
please prioritize that.
Please make sure you've got the right pliers and, and, and definitely have a
good set of hook cutters and then just be mindful.
Yeah. yeah, everybody's different. I, I totally agree with that,
but there, to me, there is too much focus on exact length and whatever.
I, I think there should be way more focus just on the fun and what happens stuff.

(46:36):
That's one, one thing I, I see these days that seems kind of weird because,
you know, it's just, well, it's, it's exactly this long. And I think it's.
Weighs this much and whatever. To me, that's not where the focus should be.
That, you know, that fish your son got, how it happened, that's what you talk about to me.

(46:57):
You know, are you all of a, you know, did a window open up, did weather come
in, all these different things, and how the fish hit and where it hit and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I mean, to me, that's the neat stuff, and a few inches aren't going to make
all that much difference.
That's most important though uh you know
we should mention i know you know that we've talked about it before

(47:17):
but uh you know the warmer the water gets the
more important all of that is that's when you definitely want to minimize
handling the minimize time out of the water when you
start getting in the in the 70s especially you know
it's it it's nice that you talk about you know the experience the whole thing
i've talked about this numerous times with the with that the muskie that my

(47:38):
son got his first one casting was probably one of the most memorable fish that
i've i've been a part of even though it was like i said i don't know 36 to 38
inches something like that and just his pure.
Excitement when he has one hooked was one of the coolest things you know it
kind of you know pete you've caught so many muskies in your days you remember

(47:59):
how it is when you first got your first follow you probably had your heart beating
out of your chest and things like that and you know as as you get more experienced
and you, as you've done it more,
you know, that I would say some of that excitement, I don't know if that's the
right word fades slightly, right?
Like nowadays, when I get a follow, I, I, yeah, I like it. It's awesome.
You're right. That's the idea, you know, but my heart's not beating out of my chest.

(48:21):
Like it used to be like before I used to see one and you were just,
you know, almost spastic and not in control of your emotions a little bit,
but now, you know, now you're a lot more in control, you know,
when you come into the the figure eight on those, like when you were newer angler, you,
you potentially made terrible figure eights and now you can,
you know, mentally you can, you can put it all together to try to,

(48:42):
you know, increase your odds in there.
Whereas, you know, like my son, I mean, he, you know, he's got the jitters,
the shakes, like super excited.
Like that's, and that's the part of, you know, musky angling that sometimes
I think we forget about, you know, the pure joy, the pure excitement,
the time on the water with, you know, family and friends and things like that.

(49:03):
And like you said, just try to put the focus back on the important things.
Oh, absolutely. How did he get it, by the way? Did it hit on or?
Yeah, he's, so he's, this is, so initially I didn't, my son was 12 last year
and I didn't let him muskie.
He had just turned, he had just turned 12 before last season.
And so I didn't let him muskie fish much, partially because I didn't want to burn him out early.

(49:27):
And second of all, I just didn't think that he would be, I thought he'd be one of these kids.
You'd get him in the boat and he'd throw 12 casts and he'd be like, uh, yeah, all right.
I'm ready to go back. Well, once I got him on the water, that was actually quite
the exact opposite, you know, like, I mean, he's ready to go for four or five hours.
I mean, I don't, I, I don't take my kids on, on 10 hour trips real often.

(49:48):
I try to, when we're up North, we can go, like, I have the luxury of being able
to go for four hours, kind of pick a window, you know, I have that, that luxury.
And so I, so we jump on the water for a few hours and, you know,
he's just ripping this bulldog.
And I was surprised that he wanted to rip a bulldog, but man,
he's just ripping this bulldog and, you know, he hits out and he's like,

(50:10):
dad, I got one, you know, and like, yeah, Rod's bent pretty decently.
And, you know, he's just, after he, after he sets the hook the first time,
he's kind of like repeating, setting the hook over and over,
you know, okay, easy, buddy, you got it hooked up.
Let's just get it to the net, you know? So, and you know, he's trying to force
it in kind of quick and, you know, but so you just got to coach him through it.
And we put it in the net and it was you know i mean

(50:31):
the smile on his face is priceless like i
said it's yeah it's fortunately for him he actually ended up getting a smaller
one on the same bulldog just you know like a half hour later so he ends up with
a two fish night his first his first night he catches one casting i've taken
him out trolling and that's kind of why i thought the casting thing wasn't going
to go as well for him because the trolling thing it was like i think at one

(50:52):
point he caught when he was sleeping.
I had to wake him up, you know, I'm like, so, but it's like I said,
getting kids involved in, you know, new anglers into the sport.
It's fun. And like, as you talked about, as we get new anglers into the sport,
we got to be mindful of how we treat these fish. It's not an absolute renewable resource.
And in many cases, as you know, it's not renewable at all.

(51:14):
You know, we've gotten far less natural reproduction than what we ever had thought we would get.
So, I mean, in many cases, these fish are essentially, I hate to use the word
put and take, you know, but that's kind of what they are.
We put them in. And, and if we stop stocking in many cases, muskies cease to
exist in, in a lot of lakes.

(51:35):
So we just need to protect everything we have, especially in,
in light of, uh, you know, budgeting shortfalls to continue to put as many muskies
as what we had seen in, uh, previous seasons.
Yeah. That, that there, there is a pretty dangerous combination these days.
So we really, really do need to focus on that.
And, you know, it's, it's basically more anglers and, and better technology and knowledge through,

(52:02):
through social media and, you know, the electronics companies and the mapping,
all these different things. We've always wanted to grow the sport.
We've always wanted to get young people involved. And, you know,
some, some grumpy old men might argue that, you know, we've succeeded too much,
but we really have done that.
There's quite a few young people involved. There's definitely more women than ever.

(52:26):
And the knowledge and the resources are strong. So there's way more pressure
on the fish because of that.
We'd like to see it continue to go in that direction.
But, you know, just simple logic, you know, if you have less stocking and way
more intelligent fishing pressure with more lure options, a lot more fish are going to get caught.

(52:49):
So this handling thing becomes more and more important than ever at any time
we've ever lived in this sport.
So it really is seriously something that's important.
To, to consider and make sure as much as possible, we have as much survival
as possible when we're releasing them.
That's the word you use was intelligent fishing pressure.

(53:11):
That's the one thing I would say for sure is the anglers on the water these
days are far more equipped to, you know, to catch fish than what they were, you know, previously.
Like just every, every technological thing that we could talk about has increased,
you know, our abilities to catch fish.
I mean, we could, we could talk forward facing sonar, but we can also just talk

(53:32):
straight mapping, you know, the, the map chips in the lake. I mean,
that's, that's a huge thing.
Exactly. I mean, for you to be able to go onto a brand new body of water and
follow contours the way that you did, whereas before it would take you,
you know, lots of time and effort to, to get that all dialed in.
Nowadays, it's, it takes no effort.

(53:53):
You, uh, you show up on the lake. It's got a map, you know, it's got a map chip.
It kind of shows you where you got some humps and what you got going on.
You can do far less homework that way and be successful than what you ever could before.
You know, I don't want to, let's, let's, I don't want to go too far into it
because we're, you know, we're definitely into this podcast,
but let's talk forward facing sonar for just quickly.

(54:14):
You know, in Brad and I have talked about it multiple times and it's just a
comes with great responsibility. ability, you know, what's your thoughts on it?
Cause it's obviously very useful technology and it doesn't have to be absolutely
detrimental to the fisheries.
It's more about the anglers and how they use it.
Yeah. Well, it's a, it's a hot topic and, you know, and.

(54:34):
I'll be perfectly honest with people. I'm a grumpy old man with it.
I don't consider it their chase for me, but I don't get it. It's so cool.
It's so unbelievable in a lot of ways.
Everybody's going to draw the line somewhere with what they like to do.

(54:54):
Frankly, part of it is, Jeff, I just don't like staring at the screen more.
I love looking around and this, that, and the other. And to be really good with
forward-facing sonar, you've got to look at the screen a lot.
I don't get mad at anybody that uses it, well, except the few people that abuse it.
But other than that, it's just a tremendous tool.

(55:16):
And you really, there's too much negative focus, in my opinion,
on forward-facing sonar because what you just talked about.
I mean, you know, I'm a hypocrite in a way.
If I say I don't like forward-facing sonar, but yet I'll use the mapping.
Mapping i was actually grumpy when the mapping came
out because i had a huge advantage over people with all the
time i had in the water before the mapping came out but here

(55:39):
again same old story if you put yourself in other
people's shoes i can't blame anybody for using and
it's tremendous it's a tremendous tool you're able to go out there and find
the you know find the structure so fast but but that's that's all a big part
of it right now is that you know compared to 20 years ago i I used to see the

(55:59):
majority of other muskie anglers on the lake were, were frankly, you know,
way less skilled, talented, whatever it is. You shouldn't even really call it that, but the.
The technology has made a huge difference along with the knowledge.
So at the end of the day, with forward-facing sonar, it's another tool.

(56:19):
The only big negative to it to me is people that are more concerned about getting
the fish pictures than they are the fishery,
and it can be used to target deeper fish during warm water period.
And that is just
something that that shouldn't be done that

(56:42):
you know that's that that's absolutely irresponsible i
have no respect for anyone that would choose to be fishing for
fish that are that are sitting anywhere below 15
feet down in open water during
the warm water period and unfortunately there are
people that are doing that but otherwise uh

(57:02):
you know let's it's just another tool it's
an amazing tool to be able to to find fish in
a lot of cases and i'm i'm kind of weird that way i'll use it for crappier walleye
once in a while but i i have it in my boat and i i basically don't use it for
muskies but uh it's amazing stuff yeah absolutely i i couldn't agree more you

(57:24):
know with this the staring at the screen thing that was the one thing about it with me.
That's why i have it right but i almost never use
it like i lately i have the i've actually
used it when i go trolling because i use it as a second screen i bring
the map up on that one and then i said use my side imaging
my regular sonar on the other locator because i just don't want to play around

(57:45):
with too much like i just don't want to play around with more stuff right i'm
already out there and it feels like you know especially i mean you know just
pete you've been doing some youtube stuff you know you do some filming and so
you're dealing with the setting up cameras and, and all that kind of stuff.
And I just didn't want one more toy to have to play around with.
I like, and it's probably to my detriment, right? I mean, I,

(58:06):
I can use it for a lot of things.
I watched the young guy last year as a friend of mine that, and of course the
younger people are usually really into it.
And, and he looks at that thing all the time, but I, this was really impressive.
And again, I don't get mad at anybody that uses it. I really,
I really honestly don't. And I'll argue this to some degree.

(58:30):
I mean, if you're guiding or whatever, a younger person, you almost got to use
it. It is, it is that effective.
It's just a matter of what you want to do. But if you're in,
you know, competition at all and really want to ultimately catch more fish,
it's a, it's a tool you should be using in certain situations.
But back to this story, it was just impressive. He, he would,

(58:53):
he's looking at that screen all the time, which which I don't really like to
do, but I was still impressed by it.
Seeing fish coming and this, that, and the other, and in some cases actually spotting them.
I watched him do a figure eight, watching the fish on the screen with a bucktail, fast.
It was more warmer water time.

(59:15):
And I was really impressed. He's literally not looking at anything other than that screen.
And somehow he did a tremendous figure eight, watching the screen the whole time.
Eventually, he did blow out of the water. He lost his concentration.
But I was pretty impressed with that whole thing. So I had two thoughts at the

(59:37):
exact same time. I'm like, that is really impressive.
But I also thought there's no way in hell I'm ever doing that.
Oh yeah. It's funny. You called yourself grumpy old man a couple of times in
this podcast. And I, it's funny.
Cause I was talking about that recently with one of my friends.
I'm like, man, I'm starting to feel like an old person now.
I'm like, you know, just the things we talk about, it sounded like my parents,

(59:59):
you know, I just, I don't like it right at 40.
I think I'm 47. seven i i don't like i don't
like the path i'm going down you're you're
young yet don't worry about it you're okay well then
i'm really gonna be grumpy when i get a little bit older right right
well at the end of the day really just just
to cap this off though very very seriously you

(01:00:20):
know we we definitely shouldn't be infighting over
the over the technology or whatever
you know i i think the main focus should be
just you know the health of the fisheries and we should try
and push for more stocking wherever we can get it because frankly
that that is going to be
a common sense necessity in my opinion and

(01:00:41):
and not just muskies crappie walleye whatever
you know if we you know the the mantra of grow
the sport we've been talking about it for years the companies that make things
you obviously have a company that sells things you want the sport to grow you
know In order to be able to do that with the high-tech stuff we have and the

(01:01:02):
educated people that are out there doing it,
we really need to be careful on the handling thing,
selective harvest for the fish that we do eat, crappies, walleyes, bass.
Be smart about what you're keeping, keep the middle size range.
Range always release any healthy robust looking

(01:01:23):
fish even if they happen to be in the
size range you would normally eat if they look
real healthy healthy and robust that they are
they're the most aggressive fish that's the damn fish you want back in the water
because you're going to be able to catch it again and it's going to be spreading
better genetics than the other one so you you release those take care of the

(01:01:44):
muskies as much as possible be especially careful in the the warm water period, and then the.
I think we all should try and, you know, push a little more,
maybe get involved in whatever way to, to, to try and help stock fisheries a little bit as well.
Because I, I do think realistically, you know, we're the, the fisheries overall

(01:02:05):
are going to need some help.
Yeah, I agree a hundred percent. I mean, I, we've talked, I've talked about
it with numerous people.
Cause like I said, I've, I've talked about this on all of our podcasts a few
times is that, you know, like the hot topic was stocking over the winter and
everyone wanted to talk about that. And I kept telling him, I'm like,
the one thing we need to worry about though, is like budgeting,
like everything's more expensive.

(01:02:26):
I mean, you go to the grocery store right now and it doesn't go as far as it did five years ago.
And, you know, it's no different with raising muskies, everything's more expensive.
So, but you haven't seen a license fee increase in, you know,
how long I think that that's one thing that we need to potentially look at for
a way to increase funding to, you know, to potentially have more muskies.

(01:02:48):
So it's just there's a few issues that
need to be addressed and and you hit it on the
head though you know what then when you're talking about selective harvest and all
that kind of stuff when it comes to the multi-species things very important
very very important you can't stress it enough i mean us as anglers we can look
to you know them to legislate legislate things but at some point we need to

(01:03:10):
take the responsibility ourselves and look at ourselves in the mirror and and
you know make those changes as well we can do a lot of good for the fisheries just on our own actions.
Yeah, well, you know, I think people donate to, if they know it's like a separate
fund or whatever that's literally for stocking fish, I think it's actually pretty easy to raise money.

(01:03:32):
But, you know, maybe the, you know, some of the keys are, you know,
where do you raise the fish?
You know, obviously you've got to work with the DNR through some of these projects.
But, you know, it's definitely something to work on towards the future and keep a focus on.
Because, you know, at the end of the day, I just don't realistically believe

(01:03:53):
we can keep the fisheries health up,
increasing pressure and technology all the time. So, you know,
add a few fish in there and let people keep, keep them and eat them.
If they, that's always a good solution in my opinion.
If they got too many walleyes in there, we'll eat them. Nothing wrong with that.

(01:04:16):
Oh yeah. Well, Pete, I want to thank you for, for your time today.
I really do appreciate you coming out and talking musky fishing with, with me.
I very much appreciate that. It's always great to talk to you.
I appreciate your efforts at the Wausau show. It was good to see you on that Saturday.
It's always good to talk to you about fishing.
I hope maybe we can do this again at some point. And I want to just,

(01:04:37):
you know, say to you, I hope you have yourself a great start to the season.
I hope that, you know, you get, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you've,
I'm assuming you're still going to be doing the YouTube thing this year, right?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Dave Brown and I will be doing that.
So, yeah. Yeah. We're definitely going to be on it. And we'll even chase a few

(01:04:58):
walleyes and stuff like that.
It'll be mainly muskies, but we'll have fun. And we've been touching on different topics.
So yeah, yeah, Dave Brown's on. We'll have fun and you'll have fun.
I'm sure you'll be out there chasing them too.
So the best of luck to you. I did enjoy that Saturday at the Wausau show.
That was busy and fun. It's always good to see a bunch of musky guys wandering around.

(01:05:19):
I shouldn't say guys, guys and gals and kids.
And it's always good to see that too. Yeah, there was quite a few young people there as well.
But I have to go right now because I have a very important person waiting on
my deck right now to chat with me, and that's my dad, Tex.
Oh, yes. Dad comes first. Well, I'll let you go, Pete. I really appreciate your

(01:05:41):
time. I want to thank all of our listeners for tuning in. I'll have another episode.
Music.