March 23, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode of The Tech Trajectory Podcast, host Chris Davies sits down with Alex Young to explore the transformative role of mentorship in leadership and career development. As a mentor, industry fellow, and innovation leader, Alex shares insights on fostering meaningful mentor-mentee relationships, the importance of self-awareness, and how mentoring can shape not only individual careers but also entire organisations.
1. The power of mentorship in leadership
[02:06] The best mentoring advice Alex ever received and why indirect guidance is often the most impactful.
[03:16] Mentorship isn’t always formal—sometimes, the most valuable lessons come from small, casual conversations.
[05:28] Why Alex dedicates time to mentoring and how it has shaped his perspective as a leader.
2. Lessons from being both a mentor and a mentee
[08:20] How Alex’s first mentor influenced his approach to leadership and ethical decision-making.
[10:50] Why mentorship matters most at the start of a career—helping people who "don’t know what they don’t know."
[14:43] The importance of vulnerability in leadership and how sharing failures fosters a culture of learning.
3. The difference between mentorship and coaching
[19:56] Coaching vs. mentoring: What’s the difference? Coaching is goal-driven, while mentoring is an open-ended journey.
[23:08] What separates a great mentor from a good one—why real mentors care beyond structured sessions.
[27:16] The best mentees are open-minded, proactive, and committed to applying what they learn.
4. Future-proofing leadership in the age of AI
[33:36] How AI is shifting the value of technical skills, and why leadership is about human connection, creativity, and vision.
[36:33] Remote mentorship—how digital transformation has changed how we connect and learn.
[37:49] Where to start if you want to become a mentor, from university programs to startup accelerators.
5. The one piece of advice Alex would give his younger self
[30:11] Say “yes” more often—how taking chances can shape your career in unexpected ways.
[41:17] If mentorship could be summed up in one word, it would be "enriching"—for both mentor and mentee.
Where to find Alex Young
- LinkedIn: Alex Young
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Davies (00:00):
Hi everyone, and welcome to the tech trajectory
(00:02):
podcast, where we explore thehuman side of technology,
leadership and innovation. I'mChris Davies, and today we're
talking about something everygreat leader needs to think
about, mentoring the nextgeneration. My guest today is
Alex Young, who has a passionfor enhancing the lives of those
around him, in addition to hisroles at oculo Medibank and most
(00:23):
recently, Australian Red Crosslifeblood, which sees him
introduce and implementimpactful innovation, Alex is
also an industry fellow forrmits future skills and
workforce transformation, asleep guru and influencer as
part of the snooze strategists,and last but not least, a mentor
for emerging leaders. Alex,welcome to the podcast.
Alex Young (00:43):
Thanks a lot. Chris.
Chris Davies (00:44):
So yeah, lots we want to get through today.
You know, talking about yourbackground as a mentor and a
leader, but we wanted to injecta little bit fun in the podcast
as well, hence why we have theboard game operation.
So how's your hand eyecoordination?
Alex Young (01:03):
It's pretty good.
I've never played it. I know thegame, but this will be a first.
Chris Davies (01:07):
Same here. I mean, I have admit, a little bit of
sneaky practice beforehand insetting it up. Didn't go too
well. So, yeah, we'll see how wego today, but I think it could
be a bit of a hidden metaphor inthere, for some of the themes
that we talk about today. Sothings are like patience and
sometimes knowing when to stepin or even step back. So would
(01:30):
you like to kick off with thefirst move of operation? I think
if you take a card, you'll betold what, what you have to
remove from our patient
Alex Young (01:39):
Broken heart. Tell Sam there are plenty of fish in
the sea. Fix that broken heartand earn some good money. $700.
Chris Davies (01:47):
Well, that's that's not too bad. Hey, so as
you're doing that, I will askyou the first question, and
yeah, try not to set off thebuzzer.
What would you say is the bestpiece of advice a mentor has
ever given you?
Alex Young (02:06):
Okay, I buzzed the nose twice, but I got the heart.
Chris Davies (02:09):
I'll let you get away with that one.
Alex Young (02:12):
So the best advice mentor has given me, and this
interesting question, because mythe best advice I got from
mentors were indirect, and itwas really about observations
they shared with me, and one inparticular, I remember very
young. I was probably 24 duringmy first startup, and it was
really about not judging thosearound you, and as a young
(02:38):
founder of a digital startup,not that I recognized that I was
judging others around me, butyou know, you're starting to mix
with new people differentpersonalities, and as part of
that, you have your own set viewof how people should work or
operate. And it was kind of likemy mentor at the time is great
(03:01):
at giving little nudges. So itwasn't a direct Hey, by the way,
because just a little note hereand there that was enough for me
to pick up on. Okay, maybe Ineed to rethink how I consider
others around me and how I treatthem as well.
Chris Davies (03:16):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And yeah, there's
lots of things that I'm reallyinterested to explore today on
the subject of mentorship. I'venever been mentored and I've
never mentored anyone myself,but, yeah, I think just
interesting how that dynamicworks sometimes, of because it
sometimes feels like it could bequite formal, whereas if you
(03:39):
were saying it was those kindof, you know, little remarks
here and there that actuallykind of resonate the most. Yes,
is that sometimes the case whereyou know, you don't want it to
fulfill too forced. You want itto be like a natural thing.
Alex Young (03:53):
Well, I was reflecting on this, that in the
probably 15 years that I've beendoing actual mentoring versus
five years. On top of that,being mentored, sometimes it is
quite formal, and I don't mindthat. I quite like that in terms
of, let's agree. You know, I'venever met you before. You've
never met me before. Let's agreeon how we're going to connect
(04:15):
and communicate and for howlong. But there's other times
that you don't think of it asmentoring, but there are those
individuals around you or in theworkplace that care, and if you
ask them a question, they'll,from the heart, give you a
response. And there's a wholeframing that I think we should
have around, how do we be selfaware, and how do we askfor help
(04:41):
when we need it, and then takethat on board. So so big
learning when I was younger,which was 1000 people tell you
things, but how do you how doyou recognize which advice to
take on board and open yourselfup to that? Because when you're
young, full of energy and feellike you can take on the world
quite often you don't take onthe best advice that you should.
Chris Davies (05:03):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, fascinating.
So obviously, mentioned a bit ofbackground. Mentored yourself,
then became a mentor, and Ibelieve you've mentored, yeah, a
lot of different people, a lotof different industries. What is
it that that really draws you toit, and why have you kind of
given up your time to focus onthis?
Alex Young (05:28):
For me, it's been, I think that the starting point of
the motivation initially was,and I remember that the exact
moment when I applied, and I'vebeen part of a number of
different programs. The firstone was young entrepreneurs in
the northrun by two square pegs.
I've been part of rmits, careercounseling, sorry, career
(05:49):
counseling, career mentoring andventure mentoring services. VMs,
I've been part of stone andchalks. I've done a little bit
with startup boot camp as well.
So a wide variety. You can seethere's a flavor of younger
audience, younger emergingleaders, many startup founders,
(06:10):
but at the same time, whatattracted me was really about,
how can I share what I know, butalso what can I learn as part of
that process? And I think it'snot so much the spread of
industries that was alsointeresting, but the spread of
ethnicities. So I've thatwithout intending to to target
(06:34):
anyone in particular, I've had amix of guys girls. Last two were
one migrant from Somalia,another migrant from Vietnam,
worked with individuals in, yes,the social impact space, as well
as startups, as well as studentsthat were just trying to find
(06:54):
their way out of university andinto working life.
Chris Davies (06:58):
Yeah, incredible.
And I think obviously a reallybroad spectrum of people, or
with the unique challenges.
How do you think mentorship canhelp them navigate those, those
kind of challenges that theycome up against?
Alex Young (07:15):
I think it's often when you're at that stage of
life, you don't know what youdon't know. And you're entering
every stage of life, exactly,entering workforce, navigating
new relationships, trying tounderstand what are my options
and how best to go about them.
Similar to me, you may haveconcepts in your mind, big
(07:37):
ideas, but you don't know how toshape them and form them. So
quite often, I'll reflect andplay back to them, and they'll
go, yeah, that's what I meant.
So I think for these individualsthat there's and I appreciate
that they've got the selfawareness to seek assistance,
(07:57):
because not everyone does, but Ithink there's a real interplay
of a relationship there betweenthe individuals, yeah, yeah,
right.
Chris Davies (08:05):
And is that something you did when, when you
were younger? Did you seek outthat that mentorship, and was
there anything that you know oneof your mentors? Did they have a
big impact on your career? Whatdid they do that really kind of
opened your eyes to somethingnew or different?
Alex Young (08:20):
My first and only kind of formal one that I had
very early when I was doing myfirst startup. We're still
friends now. He very much, it'sstrange to say, a little bit
like a father figure, in termsof when he was only like 10
years older than me, but just interms of his life experience was
(08:42):
enough to give me some guidance.
So at that point in my career, Iwas doing my first startup and
navigating this world of Who doI work with, and understanding
business ethics. So in the headyworld of 2000s dot coms, there
was a lot of money about therewas a lot of people that were
(09:03):
hugely aspirational, and somequestionable practices also were
around. So I was doing a lot ofbusiness throughout Asia
Pacific, and sometimes you don'tknow who to work with and how to
judge someone based on thecharacter. So a lot of what he
helped me with was justnavigating what's what's the
(09:24):
norm, or what's the what's theethical norm when it comes to
doing business, yeah, and thatsort of set me off in the right
direction of, wow, there's youwon't read this from a book, but
you you learn through the doing,and there's a whole emotional
side, particularly as a startupfounder, that you're not
prepared for. Yeah, when theysay, dig deep and it's a roller
(09:46):
coaster, it is a roll emotionalroller coaster. Some days are
great, some days are horrific,up and down, up and down, and
you need to be resilient and beprepared for that. And no one
really. Is until you're in it.
So the support that you get andthe support that I had with my
first startup and my my mentor,really made an impact for me in
(10:11):
terms of of, how can I alsoprovide that guidance to others?
Chris Davies (10:15):
Yeah, wow, awesome. And I think we'll dig
into, yeah, the role that thatcan play an organizational
level, but I think it's my turnto try and, yeah, pull a piece,
and I'll ask you a questionwhile we're doing so. So let me
pull the card and see which I'vegot to pull wishbone. Sam's got
a wish? Can you make it cometrue? I'm not sure about that.
(10:37):
Take it out quick, but don'tbreak it in two. It's quite
nifty. $600. Let me try and dothis while I ask you if you
could mentor anyone in history.
Who would it be, and why?
Alex Young (10:50):
It's a challenging question. I think, rather than
pick an individual, and quiteoften, we think of individuals
as those that have made it, soyour Steve Jobs and all this
sort of thing. But I kind ofthink that with mentoring, you
want to help people that haven'tmade it yet, that are at the
(11:12):
start, at the beginning, andthat's when you can make the
biggest impact. So I think it'sinteresting, like whether it's
the workplace or just in thecommunity, if you find the
youngest people that are willingto listen and be open, then that
that's who, that's who I like tohelp these days, that those
whose lives I can shape in apositive shape or form.
Chris Davies (11:34):
Yeah, understandable. And I don't
think Sam was too happy with me.
Then it definitely, definitelybuzzed. I don't think I'm
deserving of that $600 so, yeah,awesome. So going back to how
mentoring can play a part inorganizations, it doesn't have
to be just obviously one on one.
It's about building a culturethat supports growth as well. So
(11:57):
how can leaders createenvironments where people feel
empowered to learn from others,but also take risks.
Alex Young (12:05):
I think from what I've seen, leaders that have the
self awareness to be openthemselves, is the starting
point I was probably three yearsago now at lifeblood, I set up a
kind of like a showcase forleaders across the business to
(12:28):
share when things didn't goright in their lives or their
projects, and to share what didthey learn. So it was really
about called a learningshowcase, and it's a very polite
way to demonstrate we're notperfect, even our leaders. And
by hearing personal stories, youdevelop some empathy for them,
(12:51):
and they demonstratevulnerability. And that went on
for about a year, and it wasactually very difficult to get
individuals to put their hand upand to share very personal
stories. And the ones that didstep up, which weren't all
technically like directors orthe most senior but they were
clearly very well put togetherindividuals that recognize that
(13:16):
that life has its ups and downs.
So individuals would share somevery personal stories, and that
change your perspective of thatindividual. And yeah, wow, that
they're open to reflecting onlife and and the good and the
bad and rolling with the punchesand doing things differently.
And then that changes yourrelationship with them. And so
(13:37):
that's a real starting pointbeing that first individual to
put your hand up and say, like,I'll share my story and what I
did, right or wrong and what Ilearned, without sharing that
and without saying that, it canbe seen as and I have worked in
corporate, so I know that youyou've got your shields up and
your defenses up, and anyfallibility is a weakness, and
(14:01):
so people keep the cards closeto the chest or they deny so I
think, as a leader in anorganization, take the first
step and be open to even askingothers stories. Make that a
ritual. Build it into how theteam operates. Offer support.
Some organizations offerinternal coaching. That's that's
(14:24):
often a paid for service. Otherones partner with organizations
to get external mentors, evenvolunteer mentors, or they just
internally mentor, which is areally interesting approach as
well, but the first step isalways vulnerability and self
awareness.
Chris Davies (14:43):
Yeah, amazing.
And, yeah, you mentionedcoaching. Keen to dig into that
as well, because I think theterms mentorship and coaching
maybe a little bit of confusion.
So yeah, what's the kind ofdifference, and how can both
mentorship and coaching play arole in someone's career.
Alex Young (15:04):
From my experience, the mentoring is very much about
free form conversation,addressing challenges in the
mind of the individual at thattime. And I know some mentors,
and it's interesting you don'tgo to school or you could do a
course in either, which Ihaven't I've just learned
(15:26):
through doing differentmentoring roles and
understanding differentstructures and different
approaches and what works fordifferent individuals. But the
mentoring is very much being anopen mind, open book, listening,
a lot of listening and givingsome guidance and feedback,
versus the coaching. Is muchmore specific. You've got a very
(15:49):
specific outcome in mind. Sure,help me finish writing this
book. Yeah, okay, help me ensureI hit my targets. What are the
habits that I've got around methat I need to remove in order
to achieve that goal. Socoaching is much more outcome
specific. Mentorship could lastfrom I've had single
(16:11):
conversations to three monthsengagements to first wonderful
individual that I mentored.
We're still friends, and this isthe beauty of the process, which
is, and I should say, all of mywork has been voluntary, so it's
all volunteering in thesementorship roles at some point
in the relationship. It is whyit's wonderful to have the
(16:37):
opportunity to mentor youngerindividuals when they become the
teacher, yeah, student becomesthe teacher, which is amazing to
see that, that you share whatyou can and at some point you
hope to unlock their potential,and you hope that they're better
than you, smarter than you, withgreater possibilities. And I see
that in individuals and and thenit's like reverse mentoring,
(16:59):
then suddenly they're giving meadvice and saying, Alex, why
don't you do this? Have youthought about that and like,
like, wow, I really appreciatethat, because it's not every day
you have someone challenging youand not scared to hurt your
feelings. Yeah, sure. So that'sa really powerful benefit. And
you know, the more people youmentor, the more feedback you
get over time. So it's a two waystreet, yeah, and I really
(17:23):
appreciate that opportunity tosee them grow.
Chris Davies (17:27):
Yeah, yeah, amazing. Oh, that's awesome. So
I think it's your turn to pick acard. We'll see what we get this
time.
Alex Young (17:37):
Water on the knee.
Water on the knee has got Samfeeling down. No, take it out
quick before his legs rounds.
$500.
Chris Davies (17:49):
And while you're doing that, I will ask you your
next question, which, yeah, kindof plays into what we were just
talking about. And maybe, oh,it's very well done. Because
maybe it was from a you know,former mentee of yours. So
what's the most unconventionalpiece of career advice you've
(18:12):
ever received?
Alex Young (18:13):
I don't know. I hadn't answered this at some
point, unconventional careeradvice. It's I don't have an
unconventional career advicemainly because the mentor that
(18:35):
I've had, I've rarely hadmentoring for me personally, to
do with career and more aboutstartup, the startup world,
yeah, sure, which, I guess is acareer, but, but in that line, I
think it was very much aboutknowing when to move forward and
(18:57):
when to step back. So I have, atthe time, I had a team of eight
in my startup, and sometimes youneed to know when to not draw
the pictures for the designer,sure, yeah, write the code for
the coder, and step back and letthem be the experts and let
their it's almost like you'resharing the responsibility or
(19:19):
sharing the vision with others,and that's hard as a founder,
because you're like, Hey, I'vebeen dreaming this every night
for however long. I know exactlywhat it should look like and how
it should work and what thefuture set is. But actually,
it's a blessing to share thatwith others on your team and
allow them to contribute, themthemselves to it, and that's
(19:42):
something that I carry on now inthe work that I do to to I have
to mentally tell myself, like,like, don't step back, you know,
let them run with it, yeah, andit may look different to what
you expected, and that's okay.
Chris Davies (19:56):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Yeah. Even and the
team that we have around us atDiUS, and for example, our
design team are incrediblytalented and good at what they
do. And I've just learned tokind of say, well, yeah, you're,
you're the expert here. Like itmight not be what I had in mind
or slightly different, but hey,I'm going to trust you and what
(20:20):
you what you think, and it makesit a lot easier. And I think
even yeah, as a as a parent ofyoung children, you pick your
battles as well. So moving intothe kind of the dynamic between
the mentor and the mentee, whatpractical insights have you got
(20:42):
from from both perspectives? Sowhat's what makes an effective
mentor? For example, whatseparates a good mentor from a
great one.
Alex Young (20:54):
Few questions there.
I think, I think having greatmentors, really care about the
individuals they're mentoring,and put a little bit of extra
effort into them. And it it'snot necessarily a mechanical you
can only talk to me between thistime and I think the great
(21:17):
mentors are willing to develop arelationship over time and be
accessible and really open up atthe same time. So there's an
element of trust between two,initially strangers, basically
to get to know each other and toshare and at the same time for
(21:38):
the mentee to respectfully takeon board any advice or opinion.
The best mentees I've seen orhave had were very open minded,
and actually sometimes I'll givehomework, and they'll go away,
and they'll do it. They reallythink about it, they really
listen. And you can see thechange in them very quickly,
(22:00):
over weeks, months or years, asthey develop themselves. So I
think that component of mentorsthat actually have a process or
a structure great value. Some ofthem just have a conversation.
We just sit and have a coffeeand we talk. But actually that
could go all sorts ofdirections. Other ones have a
(22:22):
clear sort of process where you,the recipient, feel like you're
on a journey to somewhere, andit's clear what the somewhere
looks like. That's yeah,typically the clarity of process
being open with experience, butalso not being a mentor who is
trying to force too much oftheir own style onto someone
(22:50):
else, something I need to holdback in times and go and let
them once again, let themtranslate it in their own mind
in a manner that makes sense forthem. Yeah, that's like giving
them enough and then let them dothe work, let them experience
it.
Chris Davies (23:08):
Yeah, yeah. So I think something off the back of
what you said is quiteinteresting, how a lot of the
times could be just completestrangers, and this is the first
time you're meeting, and as yousaid before, in some of the
sessions you've had, some peopleare putting their hands up and,
you know, revealing prettypersonal things and their
(23:29):
struggles and things like that.
Yeah, is there some way that youcan kind of break the ice with
someone so you can get that,that flow of conversation going?
Alex Young (23:37):
I don't try. If people like Want to share
something, they'll share it.
Yeah, I try not to. I'm not atherapist. I won't draw it out
of them if, then, if that's notwhat they're comfortable with,
then that's okay. But I thinkthat starting point, when you
(23:57):
first meet is important, and Isay to each of them that, look,
let's get to know each other.
We've got a half an hour an hourtogether. Let's just get to know
each other. If you feel like wefit. And if you feel like I've
got something to offer, let's goahead and move forward and book
something in. If not, I won't beoffended if you say, No, yeah,
(24:19):
that's right. Just tell me,yeah. Don't go to me. Just Just
tell me that, that no, I'm notthe right fit. Because every
mentor you may be looking forsomething in particular, whether
it's life experience, workexperience, it could be
something about you've been ableto overcome something incredible
that I would like to overcome atsome point. So they're looking
(24:40):
for something it's and you'relooking for an individual that
sees that you've got somethingto offer. But as part of that
sort of process and getting toknow each other, it's just about
being open on both sides interms of and that's the hard bit
as well, because. Yeah, it's notalways easy to sit in front of a
(25:02):
stranger and someone the mentormay be someone much older, more
experienced, they may lookdifferent to you, and you're
trying to work out, how do weconnect? Yeah, like, like,
business relationships or anysort of networking. It's very
hard, particularly if you're onthe younger side, to go, oh. And
I've experienced that as wellwhen I was much younger, meeting
(25:24):
directors in telecommunications,when I was in working in Hong
Kong. And I'll go, how do I howdo I connect with this
individual that's 2030, years mysenior, who probably does
golfing on the weekend or has avery different lifestyle? So I
think it's really trying tothat's the skill of the mentor,
(25:46):
to be able to draw out what'syour goals, Chris, what are you
trying to achieve here? Whatwould success look like for you?
What are some of the challengesthat are top of mind? So those
questions, and it comes back toa mentor, will have great
questions I'll make you thinknot a mentor, but someone who
I'd say I would love to have, amentor that I communicated with
(26:08):
quite a bit last year gave methe question that had me
stumped, which was, Am I afraidof being successful?
Chris Davies (26:19):
Right? Okay.
Alex Young (26:23):
I don't think so, but I wrote it down. I've still
got written down in front of mymonitor, just in terms of, wow,
what? What's holding me back?
Because over the course of mycareer, I've had huge highs and
then some lows, and then overtime, you sort of get to this
normal sort of state, yeah, andI know from my level of
(26:44):
aspiration, that's, that's notme, but what's drawing me back
to this, this sort ofnormalization, but like a great
mentor will sort of ask youthose questions that you'll go,
Gee, I don't have the answer. Idon't know. Yeah, I'll think
about, I'll sleep on it. Sothat's great, yeah.
Chris Davies (27:01):
Yeah, amazing. And I think we touched upon it a
little bit there, but youmentioned what makes a great
mentor. What makes it a greatmentee? How can they get the
most out of the relationshipthat they have?
Alex Young (27:16):
Probably three things. One is they're they're
committed to the process.
They'll turn up. Yep, I have hadindividuals that just want one
chat, okay? And that's it, yeah,and they've actually gone off to
do great things, and I'll go,what is that? It? Lots of more,
yeah, so that's interesting.
(27:36):
Some of them just want to aquick, quick chat, yeah. Others
are quite committed. So the onesthat do well are committed.
They'll turn up, they'll do thehomework, they'll be present.
All the ones I've had generallylike that, that have committed
to longer term engagement, butbeing open minded and following
(27:57):
up on work. So from week toweek, or fortnight to Fortnite,
or month to month. Whenever wemeet up, we want, I like to see
continuity of the conversation.
Last time we talked aboutmarketing and your goals and
what you've done to move towardsit, what have you done? So
(28:17):
there's a real commitment fromthe individual to achieve what
they say they want to achieve.
Chris Davies (28:25):
Yeah, cool. It's not just a chat. Yeah, yeah.
Gotcha. Okay, fantastic. SoRight? My turn with the
operation, let's see what weget. Funny Bone, the apt for my
podcasting style do you think?
Sam bumped his elbow, and it'sfeeling funny. Make it stop
laughing to earn big money,$400.
I think I'm gonna know how thisis gonna go. Which one is the
(28:51):
funny bone.
Alex Young (28:52):
I'd say this side.
Yeah. Chris has hit the sidesabout four times there.
Okay, so next going to look atfuture leaders. So, Alex, I've
Chris Davies (29:02):
I'm terrible.
(30:01):
got a quick fire question foryou. If you could go back and
mentor your younger self, what'sthe one piece of advice you'd
give?
Alex Young (30:11):
Great question, I think,quite simply, it would be
to say yes more often, even ifyou're not sure. Okay. So in my
career, I've had manyopportunities think about
thinking about job opportunitiesover time, as you develop your
(30:35):
career, had really interestingjob opportunities, and I've
always been fortunate in havingoptions. And my first major
role, or first full timepermanent role, was with Nokia.
And at that time it was NokiaSydney, I had the option of
that, which was exciting, globaltelecommunications company.
(31:00):
Fantastic salary. And then atthe same time, I had another
option, which was a lesser knowndatabase organization paying six
figures when I was at the age of21 it's like, what do I go for?
Money, big money or passion?
Because the Nokia opportunitywas working in gaming, which was
my real wow, yeah. So I wentwith passion, and I've, I've
(31:24):
learned from that to always gowith, what do you what do you
think you're going to get themost out of emotionally and
learn from the most, rather thanthe money? And that's driven
every single decision I've hadfor every single role, yeah,
which means there's actuallybeen a lot of roles that I've
said no to based on that, butsometimes I wonder what would
(31:46):
have happened, what? How? Howwould life have been different
if I chose the other options?
And there are many along theways like I always, I don't
regret any of the choices, but Ialways think thatsometimes, even
if you're not sure, you shouldsay yes and try it. Yeah, that
would be my advice. But tomyself, I tell my kids that as
(32:08):
well. Just, you know, say sayyes more than no, my eldest has
a habit of saying no by defaultto anything. Just experiences,
you know, try these things.
Little one is definitely the yescolumn, and he'll always say yes
to everything, which is great,because he experiences so much
more in life. You know, thefoods that he eats? Yes, of
course, where I take him on theweekend, that sort of thing. So
(32:32):
my advice to myself when I wasyounger would definitely be,
take more chances say yes moreoften. You don't know where it
can take you.
Chris Davies (32:42):
Yeah, no. 100% agree with that. And yeah, I
think I'd probably say the samething. You know, there's lots of
those sliding doors, moments,those What if moments,
unfortunately, we'll never know.
But yeah, hey, we can, we canlive in the theoretical for a
little bit. Yeah, so gonna lookat what makes a good leader for
what the future has in store. Soobviously, you know, there's a
(33:05):
lot going on at the moment interms of AI and how it can, you
know, augment roles. Lots oftalk of whether it will replace
roles and things like that. Butwhat skills do you think would
be important for leaders in thetech space trying to, you know,
navigate the really fast moving,you know, trends that keep
(33:27):
coming up. How do you thinkthey'll kind of navigate this,
this world moving forward?
Alex Young (33:36):
I think there's almost a a shift happening when
it comes to technicalleadership, and you know, AI is
playing a big role in that, interms of the loss of value of
some skills as technology cancan do it faster or cheaper or
better than you. And I thinkit's the as a leader in this
(33:59):
space you need to be aware ofwhat's changing and moving
around you. One thing that willnever be replaced. They should
bank on is your humanity, youryour creativity, your connection
to people, to relationships,stakeholders, and vision. These
are things that that youprobably see less of coming out
(34:20):
of AI, but more around you as ahuman, and how you connect and
empathize with those around you,that's not going to change, and
that needs to be something wehold on to, how we treat each
other as we've shifted to thisremote working world as well
here in Melbourne, someorganizations going back, but
(34:41):
I'm fortunate to be able to workremotely as much as I like. But
as part of that, I think it'sreally important for leaders to
really double down on that selfawareness and to really focus on
what do they know. So in your inyour career, you tend. Into the
(35:01):
first half of your career,you're trying to learn
everything, and then at somepoint you wake up, and I did
early 40s to think aboutactually, I do know a bit. I
know a lot, and that's the onethe beauty of mentoring, that
you start realizing thesethings. You go actually, I know
so much. You baseline yourselfagainst your peers and your
(35:23):
peers in industry, but actually,there's so much you've got to
offer others. So I think forleaders, it's about recognizing
what do you know and how is itvaluable, and passing that on
and in doing so, it's no longerabout making yourself the rock
star, but you can be a rock starby enabling and teaching and
(35:44):
enriching those around you, andyou don't have to try hard to do
that. You know that's very muchabout just sharing what you know
and being generous withknowledge and experiences. I
think they're the kind of peopleand leaders that people get
attracted to, those that aregenerous with knowledge and not
gatekeeping, yeah, yeah.
Chris Davies (36:05):
Yeah. 100% agree.
And I think, yeah, interesting.
Some of the things you mentionedthere around connection and
empathy, is that something, andalso mentioned the world of
remote work, is that somethingthat's can be a bit challenging
with, with mentorship? So, youknow, increasingly digital
world. How does that kind ofwork from a mentorship
(36:26):
perspective, are you one thatlikes to get in person, or does
it still work virtually?
Alex Young (36:33):
It's interesting.
I've never thought about thatbefore, but it totally changed
after COVID. Yes, it used to becoffee catch UPS all the time
and and that was great. And Ialways prefer face to face over
virtual, but now it's 90%virtual. I like to meet someone
face to face at least once, havea coffee and get to know each
(36:55):
other in person. But generally,we're busy people these days,
whether students or officeworkers, we're pretty busy so
and quite often these are afterhours. Yeah, sure be mine. So
the mentoring sessions areusually not during work hours,
where we do it evening orweekends. So virtual seems to be
(37:17):
the standard now, yeah, okay,and it's not a bad thing. It
works out still, it does.
Chris Davies (37:25):
You can still have those conversations and it's
still, yeah, okay, that's good,great.
Now we're approaching the end ofour chat today. One thing I did
want to ask is, if anyone'slistening today who says to
themselves, I'd love to be amentor and provide that advice
to someone, but don't know whereto start. What would you say to
(37:48):
them?
Alex Young (37:49):
I think a good starting point is the
universities. Universities oftenhave mentoring programs. So
sorry, it's specificallymentors, not mentees, right?
Yeah, correct. That feels likehave something to give or wants
to kind of impart wisdom. Bethat open and transparent
person. I've got a fewexperiences here that I think
(38:11):
someone could benefit from.
Where do I start? Where do Ibegin? All universities have
mentoring programs. I'm mostfamiliar with rmits only because
I'm an alumni, and I've beenhelping them out quite a bit. So
University hits have programsthat you can go to, the website,
submit your name, attend aninformation session, and they
typically do a great job ofarranging, connecting days. So
(38:35):
information sessions. They alsohave platforms, so they've got
matchmaking kind of platforms,and they run programs. They'll
brief and prime the studentsbeforehand, that kind of thing.
That's great. So that's it's ifyou're starting off that it's
great to start with unistudents, if you've got a
(38:56):
special skill set technologystartups, design that kind of
thing. You may want toparticipate in accelerator
programs. So any accelerator orincubator programs, they often
have mentorship opportunities aswell.
Chris Davies (39:14):
Yeah, awesome. And then on the other side of that,
mentees worth it. Should they belooking? Do you recommend
looking within their ownnetworks, or is it good to kind
of have someone more outside?
Alex Young (39:28):
Think it depends on what you're looking for. Is it
career advice? Is it startup,you're doing a startup and we
need some help and advice, or isit you're doing a social venture
or doing some community project.
So depending on what you'retrying to achieve, I'd say it
depends. A bit of googlingdoesn't hurt in this space, the
(39:51):
very first opportunity I found,oddly enough, was sometimes
they're on seek. Sometimes thereare volunteering websites or
even community notice boards.
They're around. You wouldn'thave seen them unless you're
actually looking there. Yeah.
Sure, opportunities are allaround us for this.
Chris Davies (40:14):
Yeah. Okay, great.
Now, as I said, approaching theend. So maybe one more move for
you, Alex, on the old operation.
And one question I will ask youwhile you do that, you want to
reach your card.
Alex Young (40:26):
Right wrenched ankle. Sam fell down on the
basketball court. Now his ankleis all out of sorts, $200.
Chris Davies (40:35):
I did wonder why that was the piece that was
chosen, but it's because he'swrenched. I'm glad it's not too
much of a buzz. Oh no.
Alex Young (40:56):
It's harder than I thought. Yes.
Chris Davies (41:00):
Are we blaming the equipment or or what?
Alex Young (41:04):
I'm gonna blame it on the angle. I mean, a funny
angle.
Chris Davies (41:06):
That's a yes. So the question I was going to ask
is, if you could sum up theimpact of mentoring and just one
word, what would it be?
Alex Young (41:17):
I'd say the experience of or the impact of
mentoring is enriching for bothparties. In terms of, I hope,
I've been able to articulatejust how life changing it can be
for both parties. You know,there's friendship, there's
development, there's sharing ofexperiences, there's growth on
(41:40):
both sides. I think beyond this,the business framing of
mentoring, it's very much aboutcommunity and trust and
relationships, and that theseshouldn't be just seen as point
in time, but this is lifelong,so hopefully people get involved
(42:01):
as a mentor, as an or as amentee, and you're never too old
even to be a mentee. These arerelationships that you could
should consider as part of yournetwork and part of your trusted
personal board advisors, type ofsituation. So I think if you
haven't been involved at all getinvolved. To take take the first
(42:24):
step. It doesn't have to be aformal mentorship or even
coaching situation. It could bejust a let's do it. Let's catch
up for a coffee once a month.
Yeah, I've got some questions. Ireally I love what you've
achieved in marketing Chris andI love to learn from you and
work out, how do I apply some ofwhat you what you've done?
Chris Davies (42:42):
Yeah, awesome. No, I really like that approach, and
I think it makes it, yeah,accessible, which is another
thing that we mentioned. It's soimportant making it as easy as
possible. I'm gonna pull onemore card. Writers cramp. Hey,
that's that's pretty apt for myjournalistic and copywriting
background. Sam has a crampright in his wrist from writing
(43:06):
out a very long grocery list$300. As I do this, I'm going to
ask you, Alex, has our game ofOperation drawn parallels with
the world of mentoring?
Alex Young (43:18):
Hmm? It's probably not as I'd say, mentoring is
Chris Davies (43:18):
Yeah, yeah, great.
Well, I think we've given Sameasier than playing the game of
operation. Or it's moreforgiving. Yes, it's more
forgiving. Pulling a bone out ofa very small hole a tweezer is
tricky. But I think, I think,you know, the world of
(43:42):
mentorship, it's, it's, it'sthe time and attention he
deserves. I hope he's gothumans, it's just talking, it's
communicating, it's sharing,it's supporting each other. So
it's a lot more forgiving, yeah?
And I think it's just aboutcommitting some time and being
there for each other.
(44:06):
something out of today. We'vefixed some some broken bones
along the way. But yeah, thanksso much for today's
conversation, Alex,lots ofthings we've discussed, the
power of mentorship, fosteringtalent. Yeah, those those
relationships, what makes a goodmentor, mentee, etc. So yeah,
(44:27):
really appreciate it. If anyonewants to kind of follow your
journey and learn what they'redoing, how do they find that?
How do they find you?
Alex Young (44:35):
I'm available on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active with
my profile. Feel free to connectwith me. I'm very open to
meeting new people, connectingif you'd like to have a chat,
always open for that. I alsohave a medium page. I'll share a
link. So I do like to write.
Unlike you, I have no trainingin writing, but once again, in a
(44:58):
little bit of my journey istrying to extrapolate from my
head. What do I know? What can Ishare with others? And writing
is a great way to do it. So I dohave a medium page, and when I
share some of my insights.
Chris Davies (45:13):
Yeah, fantastic.
And we can share all those thoselinks with our listeners, but
yeah, thanks so much, Alex. It'sbeen a great conversation. And
yeah. Hope everyone enjoyedtoday's episode. Make sure to
just subscribe to the techtrajectory podcast, and we'll be
back next month with moreinsights from the people shaping
the future of technology. Alex,thank you very much.
Alex Young (45:33):
Thank you. Chris.
Hi everyone, and welcome to the tech trajectory
(00:02):
podcast, where we explore thehuman side of technology,
leadership and innovation. I'mChris Davies, and today we're
talking about something everygreat leader needs to think
about, mentoring the nextgeneration. My guest today is
Alex Young, who has a passionfor enhancing the lives of those
around him, in addition to hisroles at oculo Medibank and most
(00:23):
recently, Australian Red Crosslifeblood, which sees him
introduce and implementimpactful innovation, Alex is
also an industry fellow forrmits future skills and
workforce transformation, asleep guru and influencer as
part of the snooze strategists,and last but not least, a mentor
for emerging leaders. Alex,welcome to the podcast.
Alex Young (00:43):
Thanks a lot. Chris.
Chris Davies (00:44):
So yeah, lots we want to get through today.
You know, talking about yourbackground as a mentor and a
leader, but we wanted to injecta little bit fun in the podcast
as well, hence why we have theboard game operation.
So how's your hand eyecoordination?
Alex Young (01:03):
It's pretty good.
I've never played it. I know thegame, but this will be a first.
Chris Davies (01:07):
Same here. I mean, I have admit, a little bit of
sneaky practice beforehand insetting it up. Didn't go too
well. So, yeah, we'll see how wego today, but I think it could
be a bit of a hidden metaphor inthere, for some of the themes
that we talk about today. Sothings are like patience and
sometimes knowing when to stepin or even step back. So would
(01:30):
you like to kick off with thefirst move of operation? I think
if you take a card, you'll betold what, what you have to
remove from our patient
Alex Young (01:39):
Broken heart. Tell Sam there are plenty of fish in
the sea. Fix that broken heartand earn some good money. $700.
Chris Davies (01:47):
Well, that's that's not too bad. Hey, so as
you're doing that, I will askyou the first question, and
yeah, try not to set off thebuzzer.
What would you say is the bestpiece of advice a mentor has
ever given you?
Alex Young (02:06):
Okay, I buzzed the nose twice, but I got the heart.
Chris Davies (02:09):
I'll let you get away with that one.
Alex Young (02:12):
So the best advice mentor has given me, and this
interesting question, because mythe best advice I got from
mentors were indirect, and itwas really about observations
they shared with me, and one inparticular, I remember very
young. I was probably 24 duringmy first startup, and it was
really about not judging thosearound you, and as a young
(02:38):
founder of a digital startup,not that I recognized that I was
judging others around me, butyou know, you're starting to mix
with new people differentpersonalities, and as part of
that, you have your own set viewof how people should work or
operate. And it was kind of likemy mentor at the time is great
(03:01):
at giving little nudges. So itwasn't a direct Hey, by the way,
because just a little note hereand there that was enough for me
to pick up on. Okay, maybe Ineed to rethink how I consider
others around me and how I treatthem as well.
Chris Davies (03:16):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And yeah, there's
lots of things that I'm reallyinterested to explore today on
the subject of mentorship. I'venever been mentored and I've
never mentored anyone myself,but, yeah, I think just
interesting how that dynamicworks sometimes, of because it
sometimes feels like it could bequite formal, whereas if you
(03:39):
were saying it was those kindof, you know, little remarks
here and there that actuallykind of resonate the most. Yes,
is that sometimes the case whereyou know, you don't want it to
fulfill too forced. You want itto be like a natural thing.
Alex Young (03:53):
Well, I was reflecting on this, that in the
probably 15 years that I've beendoing actual mentoring versus
five years. On top of that,being mentored, sometimes it is
quite formal, and I don't mindthat. I quite like that in terms
of, let's agree. You know, I'venever met you before. You've
never met me before. Let's agreeon how we're going to connect
(04:15):
and communicate and for howlong. But there's other times
that you don't think of it asmentoring, but there are those
individuals around you or in theworkplace that care, and if you
ask them a question, they'll,from the heart, give you a
response. And there's a wholeframing that I think we should
have around, how do we be selfaware, and how do we askfor help
(04:41):
when we need it, and then takethat on board. So so big
learning when I was younger,which was 1000 people tell you
things, but how do you how doyou recognize which advice to
take on board and open yourselfup to that? Because when you're
young, full of energy and feellike you can take on the world
quite often you don't take onthe best advice that you should.
Chris Davies (05:03):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, fascinating.
So obviously, mentioned a bit ofbackground. Mentored yourself,
then became a mentor, and Ibelieve you've mentored, yeah, a
lot of different people, a lotof different industries. What is
it that that really draws you toit, and why have you kind of
given up your time to focus onthis?
Alex Young (05:28):
For me, it's been, I think that the starting point of
the motivation initially was,and I remember that the exact
moment when I applied, and I'vebeen part of a number of
different programs. The firstone was young entrepreneurs in
the northrun by two square pegs.
I've been part of rmits, careercounseling, sorry, career
(05:49):
counseling, career mentoring andventure mentoring services. VMs,
I've been part of stone andchalks. I've done a little bit
with startup boot camp as well.
So a wide variety. You can seethere's a flavor of younger
audience, younger emergingleaders, many startup founders,
(06:10):
but at the same time, whatattracted me was really about,
how can I share what I know, butalso what can I learn as part of
that process? And I think it'snot so much the spread of
industries that was alsointeresting, but the spread of
ethnicities. So I've thatwithout intending to to target
(06:34):
anyone in particular, I've had amix of guys girls. Last two were
one migrant from Somalia,another migrant from Vietnam,
worked with individuals in, yes,the social impact space, as well
as startups, as well as studentsthat were just trying to find
(06:54):
their way out of university andinto working life.
Chris Davies (06:58):
Yeah, incredible.
And I think obviously a reallybroad spectrum of people, or
with the unique challenges.
How do you think mentorship canhelp them navigate those, those
kind of challenges that theycome up against?
Alex Young (07:15):
I think it's often when you're at that stage of
life, you don't know what youdon't know. And you're entering
every stage of life, exactly,entering workforce, navigating
new relationships, trying tounderstand what are my options
and how best to go about them.
Similar to me, you may haveconcepts in your mind, big
(07:37):
ideas, but you don't know how toshape them and form them. So
quite often, I'll reflect andplay back to them, and they'll
go, yeah, that's what I meant.
So I think for these individualsthat there's and I appreciate
that they've got the selfawareness to seek assistance,
(07:57):
because not everyone does, but Ithink there's a real interplay
of a relationship there betweenthe individuals, yeah, yeah,
right.
Chris Davies (08:05):
And is that something you did when, when you
were younger? Did you seek outthat that mentorship, and was
there anything that you know oneof your mentors? Did they have a
big impact on your career? Whatdid they do that really kind of
opened your eyes to somethingnew or different?
Alex Young (08:20):
My first and only kind of formal one that I had
very early when I was doing myfirst startup. We're still
friends now. He very much, it'sstrange to say, a little bit
like a father figure, in termsof when he was only like 10
years older than me, but just interms of his life experience was
(08:42):
enough to give me some guidance.
So at that point in my career, Iwas doing my first startup and
navigating this world of Who doI work with, and understanding
business ethics. So in the headyworld of 2000s dot coms, there
was a lot of money about therewas a lot of people that were
(09:03):
hugely aspirational, and somequestionable practices also were
around. So I was doing a lot ofbusiness throughout Asia
Pacific, and sometimes you don'tknow who to work with and how to
judge someone based on thecharacter. So a lot of what he
helped me with was justnavigating what's what's the
(09:24):
norm, or what's the what's theethical norm when it comes to
doing business, yeah, and thatsort of set me off in the right
direction of, wow, there's youwon't read this from a book, but
you you learn through the doing,and there's a whole emotional
side, particularly as a startupfounder, that you're not
prepared for. Yeah, when theysay, dig deep and it's a roller
(09:46):
coaster, it is a roll emotionalroller coaster. Some days are
great, some days are horrific,up and down, up and down, and
you need to be resilient and beprepared for that. And no one
really. Is until you're in it.
So the support that you get andthe support that I had with my
first startup and my my mentor,really made an impact for me in
(10:11):
terms of of, how can I alsoprovide that guidance to others?
Chris Davies (10:15):
Yeah, wow, awesome. And I think we'll dig
into, yeah, the role that thatcan play an organizational
level, but I think it's my turnto try and, yeah, pull a piece,
and I'll ask you a questionwhile we're doing so. So let me
pull the card and see which I'vegot to pull wishbone. Sam's got
a wish? Can you make it cometrue? I'm not sure about that.
(10:37):
Take it out quick, but don'tbreak it in two. It's quite
nifty. $600. Let me try and dothis while I ask you if you
could mentor anyone in history.
Who would it be, and why?
Alex Young (10:50):
It's a challenging question. I think, rather than
pick an individual, and quiteoften, we think of individuals
as those that have made it, soyour Steve Jobs and all this
sort of thing. But I kind ofthink that with mentoring, you
want to help people that haven'tmade it yet, that are at the
(11:12):
start, at the beginning, andthat's when you can make the
biggest impact. So I think it'sinteresting, like whether it's
the workplace or just in thecommunity, if you find the
youngest people that are willingto listen and be open, then that
that's who, that's who I like tohelp these days, that those
whose lives I can shape in apositive shape or form.
Chris Davies (11:34):
Yeah, understandable. And I don't
think Sam was too happy with me.
Then it definitely, definitelybuzzed. I don't think I'm
deserving of that $600 so, yeah,awesome. So going back to how
mentoring can play a part inorganizations, it doesn't have
to be just obviously one on one.
It's about building a culturethat supports growth as well. So
(11:57):
how can leaders createenvironments where people feel
empowered to learn from others,but also take risks.
Alex Young (12:05):
I think from what I've seen, leaders that have the
self awareness to be openthemselves, is the starting
point I was probably three yearsago now at lifeblood, I set up a
kind of like a showcase forleaders across the business to
(12:28):
share when things didn't goright in their lives or their
projects, and to share what didthey learn. So it was really
about called a learningshowcase, and it's a very polite
way to demonstrate we're notperfect, even our leaders. And
by hearing personal stories, youdevelop some empathy for them,
(12:51):
and they demonstratevulnerability. And that went on
for about a year, and it wasactually very difficult to get
individuals to put their hand upand to share very personal
stories. And the ones that didstep up, which weren't all
technically like directors orthe most senior but they were
clearly very well put togetherindividuals that recognize that
(13:16):
that life has its ups and downs.
So individuals would share somevery personal stories, and that
change your perspective of thatindividual. And yeah, wow, that
they're open to reflecting onlife and and the good and the
bad and rolling with the punchesand doing things differently.
And then that changes yourrelationship with them. And so
(13:37):
that's a real starting pointbeing that first individual to
put your hand up and say, like,I'll share my story and what I
did, right or wrong and what Ilearned, without sharing that
and without saying that, it canbe seen as and I have worked in
corporate, so I know that youyou've got your shields up and
your defenses up, and anyfallibility is a weakness, and
(14:01):
so people keep the cards closeto the chest or they deny so I
think, as a leader in anorganization, take the first
step and be open to even askingothers stories. Make that a
ritual. Build it into how theteam operates. Offer support.
Some organizations offerinternal coaching. That's that's
(14:24):
often a paid for service. Otherones partner with organizations
to get external mentors, evenvolunteer mentors, or they just
internally mentor, which is areally interesting approach as
well, but the first step isalways vulnerability and self
awareness.
Chris Davies (14:43):
Yeah, amazing.
And, yeah, you mentionedcoaching. Keen to dig into that
as well, because I think theterms mentorship and coaching
maybe a little bit of confusion.
So yeah, what's the kind ofdifference, and how can both
mentorship and coaching play arole in someone's career.
Alex Young (15:04):
From my experience, the mentoring is very much about
free form conversation,addressing challenges in the
mind of the individual at thattime. And I know some mentors,
and it's interesting you don'tgo to school or you could do a
course in either, which Ihaven't I've just learned
(15:26):
through doing differentmentoring roles and
understanding differentstructures and different
approaches and what works fordifferent individuals. But the
mentoring is very much being anopen mind, open book, listening,
a lot of listening and givingsome guidance and feedback,
versus the coaching. Is muchmore specific. You've got a very
(15:49):
specific outcome in mind. Sure,help me finish writing this
book. Yeah, okay, help me ensureI hit my targets. What are the
habits that I've got around methat I need to remove in order
to achieve that goal. Socoaching is much more outcome
specific. Mentorship could lastfrom I've had single
(16:11):
conversations to three monthsengagements to first wonderful
individual that I mentored.
We're still friends, and this isthe beauty of the process, which
is, and I should say, all of mywork has been voluntary, so it's
all volunteering in thesementorship roles at some point
in the relationship. It is whyit's wonderful to have the
(16:37):
opportunity to mentor youngerindividuals when they become the
teacher, yeah, student becomesthe teacher, which is amazing to
see that, that you share whatyou can and at some point you
hope to unlock their potential,and you hope that they're better
than you, smarter than you, withgreater possibilities. And I see
that in individuals and and thenit's like reverse mentoring,
(16:59):
then suddenly they're giving meadvice and saying, Alex, why
don't you do this? Have youthought about that and like,
like, wow, I really appreciatethat, because it's not every day
you have someone challenging youand not scared to hurt your
feelings. Yeah, sure. So that'sa really powerful benefit. And
you know, the more people youmentor, the more feedback you
get over time. So it's a two waystreet, yeah, and I really
(17:23):
appreciate that opportunity tosee them grow.
Chris Davies (17:27):
Yeah, yeah, amazing. Oh, that's awesome. So
I think it's your turn to pick acard. We'll see what we get this
time.
Alex Young (17:37):
Water on the knee.
Water on the knee has got Samfeeling down. No, take it out
quick before his legs rounds.
$500.
Chris Davies (17:49):
And while you're doing that, I will ask you your
next question, which, yeah, kindof plays into what we were just
talking about. And maybe, oh,it's very well done. Because
maybe it was from a you know,former mentee of yours. So
what's the most unconventionalpiece of career advice you've
(18:12):
ever received?
Alex Young (18:13):
I don't know. I hadn't answered this at some
point, unconventional careeradvice. It's I don't have an
unconventional career advicemainly because the mentor that
(18:35):
I've had, I've rarely hadmentoring for me personally, to
do with career and more aboutstartup, the startup world,
yeah, sure, which, I guess is acareer, but, but in that line, I
think it was very much aboutknowing when to move forward and
(18:57):
when to step back. So I have, atthe time, I had a team of eight
in my startup, and sometimes youneed to know when to not draw
the pictures for the designer,sure, yeah, write the code for
the coder, and step back and letthem be the experts and let
their it's almost like you'resharing the responsibility or
(19:19):
sharing the vision with others,and that's hard as a founder,
because you're like, Hey, I'vebeen dreaming this every night
for however long. I know exactlywhat it should look like and how
it should work and what thefuture set is. But actually,
it's a blessing to share thatwith others on your team and
allow them to contribute, themthemselves to it, and that's
(19:42):
something that I carry on now inthe work that I do to to I have
to mentally tell myself, like,like, don't step back, you know,
let them run with it, yeah, andit may look different to what
you expected, and that's okay.
Chris Davies (19:56):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Yeah. Even and the
team that we have around us atDiUS, and for example, our
design team are incrediblytalented and good at what they
do. And I've just learned tokind of say, well, yeah, you're,
you're the expert here. Like itmight not be what I had in mind
or slightly different, but hey,I'm going to trust you and what
(20:20):
you what you think, and it makesit a lot easier. And I think
even yeah, as a as a parent ofyoung children, you pick your
battles as well. So moving intothe kind of the dynamic between
the mentor and the mentee, whatpractical insights have you got
(20:42):
from from both perspectives? Sowhat's what makes an effective
mentor? For example, whatseparates a good mentor from a
great one.
Alex Young (20:54):
Few questions there.
I think, I think having greatmentors, really care about the
individuals they're mentoring,and put a little bit of extra
effort into them. And it it'snot necessarily a mechanical you
can only talk to me between thistime and I think the great
(21:17):
mentors are willing to develop arelationship over time and be
accessible and really open up atthe same time. So there's an
element of trust between two,initially strangers, basically
to get to know each other and toshare and at the same time for
(21:38):
the mentee to respectfully takeon board any advice or opinion.
The best mentees I've seen orhave had were very open minded,
and actually sometimes I'll givehomework, and they'll go away,
and they'll do it. They reallythink about it, they really
listen. And you can see thechange in them very quickly,
(22:00):
over weeks, months or years, asthey develop themselves. So I
think that component of mentorsthat actually have a process or
a structure great value. Some ofthem just have a conversation.
We just sit and have a coffeeand we talk. But actually that
could go all sorts ofdirections. Other ones have a
(22:22):
clear sort of process where you,the recipient, feel like you're
on a journey to somewhere, andit's clear what the somewhere
looks like. That's yeah,typically the clarity of process
being open with experience, butalso not being a mentor who is
trying to force too much oftheir own style onto someone
(22:50):
else, something I need to holdback in times and go and let
them once again, let themtranslate it in their own mind
in a manner that makes sense forthem. Yeah, that's like giving
them enough and then let them dothe work, let them experience
it.
Chris Davies (23:08):
Yeah, yeah. So I think something off the back of
what you said is quiteinteresting, how a lot of the
times could be just completestrangers, and this is the first
time you're meeting, and as yousaid before, in some of the
sessions you've had, some peopleare putting their hands up and,
you know, revealing prettypersonal things and their
(23:29):
struggles and things like that.
Yeah, is there some way that youcan kind of break the ice with
someone so you can get that,that flow of conversation going?
Alex Young (23:37):
I don't try. If people like Want to share
something, they'll share it.
Yeah, I try not to. I'm not atherapist. I won't draw it out
of them if, then, if that's notwhat they're comfortable with,
then that's okay. But I thinkthat starting point, when you
(23:57):
first meet is important, and Isay to each of them that, look,
let's get to know each other.
We've got a half an hour an hourtogether. Let's just get to know
each other. If you feel like wefit. And if you feel like I've
got something to offer, let's goahead and move forward and book
something in. If not, I won't beoffended if you say, No, yeah,
(24:19):
that's right. Just tell me,yeah. Don't go to me. Just Just
tell me that, that no, I'm notthe right fit. Because every
mentor you may be looking forsomething in particular, whether
it's life experience, workexperience, it could be
something about you've been ableto overcome something incredible
that I would like to overcome atsome point. So they're looking
(24:40):
for something it's and you'relooking for an individual that
sees that you've got somethingto offer. But as part of that
sort of process and getting toknow each other, it's just about
being open on both sides interms of and that's the hard bit
as well, because. Yeah, it's notalways easy to sit in front of a
(25:02):
stranger and someone the mentormay be someone much older, more
experienced, they may lookdifferent to you, and you're
trying to work out, how do weconnect? Yeah, like, like,
business relationships or anysort of networking. It's very
hard, particularly if you're onthe younger side, to go, oh. And
I've experienced that as wellwhen I was much younger, meeting
(25:24):
directors in telecommunications,when I was in working in Hong
Kong. And I'll go, how do I howdo I connect with this
individual that's 2030, years mysenior, who probably does
golfing on the weekend or has avery different lifestyle? So I
think it's really trying tothat's the skill of the mentor,
(25:46):
to be able to draw out what'syour goals, Chris, what are you
trying to achieve here? Whatwould success look like for you?
What are some of the challengesthat are top of mind? So those
questions, and it comes back toa mentor, will have great
questions I'll make you thinknot a mentor, but someone who
I'd say I would love to have, amentor that I communicated with
(26:08):
quite a bit last year gave methe question that had me
stumped, which was, Am I afraidof being successful?
Chris Davies (26:19):
Right? Okay.
Alex Young (26:23):
I don't think so, but I wrote it down. I've still
got written down in front of mymonitor, just in terms of, wow,
what? What's holding me back?
Because over the course of mycareer, I've had huge highs and
then some lows, and then overtime, you sort of get to this
normal sort of state, yeah, andI know from my level of
(26:44):
aspiration, that's, that's notme, but what's drawing me back
to this, this sort ofnormalization, but like a great
mentor will sort of ask youthose questions that you'll go,
Gee, I don't have the answer. Idon't know. Yeah, I'll think
about, I'll sleep on it. Sothat's great, yeah.
Chris Davies (27:01):
Yeah, amazing. And I think we touched upon it a
little bit there, but youmentioned what makes a great
mentor. What makes it a greatmentee? How can they get the
most out of the relationshipthat they have?
Alex Young (27:16):
Probably three things. One is they're they're
committed to the process.
They'll turn up. Yep, I have hadindividuals that just want one
chat, okay? And that's it, yeah,and they've actually gone off to
do great things, and I'll go,what is that? It? Lots of more,
yeah, so that's interesting.
(27:36):
Some of them just want to aquick, quick chat, yeah. Others
are quite committed. So the onesthat do well are committed.
They'll turn up, they'll do thehomework, they'll be present.
All the ones I've had generallylike that, that have committed
to longer term engagement, butbeing open minded and following
(27:57):
up on work. So from week toweek, or fortnight to Fortnite,
or month to month. Whenever wemeet up, we want, I like to see
continuity of the conversation.
Last time we talked aboutmarketing and your goals and
what you've done to move towardsit, what have you done? So
(28:17):
there's a real commitment fromthe individual to achieve what
they say they want to achieve.
Chris Davies (28:25):
Yeah, cool. It's not just a chat. Yeah, yeah.
Gotcha. Okay, fantastic. SoRight? My turn with the
operation, let's see what weget. Funny Bone, the apt for my
podcasting style do you think?
Sam bumped his elbow, and it'sfeeling funny. Make it stop
laughing to earn big money,$400.
I think I'm gonna know how thisis gonna go. Which one is the
(28:51):
funny bone.
Alex Young (28:52):
I'd say this side.
Yeah. Chris has hit the sidesabout four times there.
Okay, so next going to look atfuture leaders. So, Alex, I've
Chris Davies (29:02):
I'm terrible.
(30:01):
got a quick fire question foryou. If you could go back and
mentor your younger self, what'sthe one piece of advice you'd
give?
Alex Young (30:11):
Great question, I think,quite simply, it would be
to say yes more often, even ifyou're not sure. Okay. So in my
career, I've had manyopportunities think about
thinking about job opportunitiesover time, as you develop your
(30:35):
career, had really interestingjob opportunities, and I've
always been fortunate in havingoptions. And my first major
role, or first full timepermanent role, was with Nokia.
And at that time it was NokiaSydney, I had the option of
that, which was exciting, globaltelecommunications company.
(31:00):
Fantastic salary. And then atthe same time, I had another
option, which was a lesser knowndatabase organization paying six
figures when I was at the age of21 it's like, what do I go for?
Money, big money or passion?
Because the Nokia opportunitywas working in gaming, which was
my real wow, yeah. So I wentwith passion, and I've, I've
(31:24):
learned from that to always gowith, what do you what do you
think you're going to get themost out of emotionally and
learn from the most, rather thanthe money? And that's driven
every single decision I've hadfor every single role, yeah,
which means there's actuallybeen a lot of roles that I've
said no to based on that, butsometimes I wonder what would
(31:46):
have happened, what? How? Howwould life have been different
if I chose the other options?
And there are many along theways like I always, I don't
regret any of the choices, but Ialways think thatsometimes, even
if you're not sure, you shouldsay yes and try it. Yeah, that
would be my advice. But tomyself, I tell my kids that as
(32:08):
well. Just, you know, say sayyes more than no, my eldest has
a habit of saying no by defaultto anything. Just experiences,
you know, try these things.
Little one is definitely the yescolumn, and he'll always say yes
to everything, which is great,because he experiences so much
more in life. You know, thefoods that he eats? Yes, of
course, where I take him on theweekend, that sort of thing. So
(32:32):
my advice to myself when I wasyounger would definitely be,
take more chances say yes moreoften. You don't know where it
can take you.
Chris Davies (32:42):
Yeah, no. 100% agree with that. And yeah, I
think I'd probably say the samething. You know, there's lots of
those sliding doors, moments,those What if moments,
unfortunately, we'll never know.
But yeah, hey, we can, we canlive in the theoretical for a
little bit. Yeah, so gonna lookat what makes a good leader for
what the future has in store. Soobviously, you know, there's a
(33:05):
lot going on at the moment interms of AI and how it can, you
know, augment roles. Lots oftalk of whether it will replace
roles and things like that. Butwhat skills do you think would
be important for leaders in thetech space trying to, you know,
navigate the really fast moving,you know, trends that keep
(33:27):
coming up. How do you thinkthey'll kind of navigate this,
this world moving forward?
Alex Young (33:36):
I think there's almost a a shift happening when
it comes to technicalleadership, and you know, AI is
playing a big role in that, interms of the loss of value of
some skills as technology cancan do it faster or cheaper or
better than you. And I thinkit's the as a leader in this
(33:59):
space you need to be aware ofwhat's changing and moving
around you. One thing that willnever be replaced. They should
bank on is your humanity, youryour creativity, your connection
to people, to relationships,stakeholders, and vision. These
are things that that youprobably see less of coming out
(34:20):
of AI, but more around you as ahuman, and how you connect and
empathize with those around you,that's not going to change, and
that needs to be something wehold on to, how we treat each
other as we've shifted to thisremote working world as well
here in Melbourne, someorganizations going back, but
(34:41):
I'm fortunate to be able to workremotely as much as I like. But
as part of that, I think it'sreally important for leaders to
really double down on that selfawareness and to really focus on
what do they know. So in your inyour career, you tend. Into the
(35:01):
first half of your career,you're trying to learn
everything, and then at somepoint you wake up, and I did
early 40s to think aboutactually, I do know a bit. I
know a lot, and that's the onethe beauty of mentoring, that
you start realizing thesethings. You go actually, I know
so much. You baseline yourselfagainst your peers and your
(35:23):
peers in industry, but actually,there's so much you've got to
offer others. So I think forleaders, it's about recognizing
what do you know and how is itvaluable, and passing that on
and in doing so, it's no longerabout making yourself the rock
star, but you can be a rock starby enabling and teaching and
(35:44):
enriching those around you, andyou don't have to try hard to do
that. You know that's very muchabout just sharing what you know
and being generous withknowledge and experiences. I
think they're the kind of peopleand leaders that people get
attracted to, those that aregenerous with knowledge and not
gatekeeping, yeah, yeah.
Chris Davies (36:05):
Yeah. 100% agree.
And I think, yeah, interesting.
Some of the things you mentionedthere around connection and
empathy, is that something, andalso mentioned the world of
remote work, is that somethingthat's can be a bit challenging
with, with mentorship? So, youknow, increasingly digital
world. How does that kind ofwork from a mentorship
(36:26):
perspective, are you one thatlikes to get in person, or does
it still work virtually?
Alex Young (36:33):
It's interesting.
I've never thought about thatbefore, but it totally changed
after COVID. Yes, it used to becoffee catch UPS all the time
and and that was great. And Ialways prefer face to face over
virtual, but now it's 90%virtual. I like to meet someone
face to face at least once, havea coffee and get to know each
(36:55):
other in person. But generally,we're busy people these days,
whether students or officeworkers, we're pretty busy so
and quite often these are afterhours. Yeah, sure be mine. So
the mentoring sessions areusually not during work hours,
where we do it evening orweekends. So virtual seems to be
(37:17):
the standard now, yeah, okay,and it's not a bad thing. It
works out still, it does.
Chris Davies (37:25):
You can still have those conversations and it's
still, yeah, okay, that's good,great.
Now we're approaching the end ofour chat today. One thing I did
want to ask is, if anyone'slistening today who says to
themselves, I'd love to be amentor and provide that advice
to someone, but don't know whereto start. What would you say to
(37:48):
them?
Alex Young (37:49):
I think a good starting point is the
universities. Universities oftenhave mentoring programs. So
sorry, it's specificallymentors, not mentees, right?
Yeah, correct. That feels likehave something to give or wants
to kind of impart wisdom. Bethat open and transparent
person. I've got a fewexperiences here that I think
(38:11):
someone could benefit from.
Where do I start? Where do Ibegin? All universities have
mentoring programs. I'm mostfamiliar with rmits only because
I'm an alumni, and I've beenhelping them out quite a bit. So
University hits have programsthat you can go to, the website,
submit your name, attend aninformation session, and they
typically do a great job ofarranging, connecting days. So
(38:35):
information sessions. They alsohave platforms, so they've got
matchmaking kind of platforms,and they run programs. They'll
brief and prime the studentsbeforehand, that kind of thing.
That's great. So that's it's ifyou're starting off that it's
great to start with unistudents, if you've got a
(38:56):
special skill set technologystartups, design that kind of
thing. You may want toparticipate in accelerator
programs. So any accelerator orincubator programs, they often
have mentorship opportunities aswell.
Chris Davies (39:14):
Yeah, awesome. And then on the other side of that,
mentees worth it. Should they belooking? Do you recommend
looking within their ownnetworks, or is it good to kind
of have someone more outside?
Alex Young (39:28):
Think it depends on what you're looking for. Is it
career advice? Is it startup,you're doing a startup and we
need some help and advice, or isit you're doing a social venture
or doing some community project.
So depending on what you'retrying to achieve, I'd say it
depends. A bit of googlingdoesn't hurt in this space, the
(39:51):
very first opportunity I found,oddly enough, was sometimes
they're on seek. Sometimes thereare volunteering websites or
even community notice boards.
They're around. You wouldn'thave seen them unless you're
actually looking there. Yeah.
Sure, opportunities are allaround us for this.
Chris Davies (40:14):
Yeah. Okay, great.
Now, as I said, approaching theend. So maybe one more move for
you, Alex, on the old operation.
And one question I will ask youwhile you do that, you want to
reach your card.
Alex Young (40:26):
Right wrenched ankle. Sam fell down on the
basketball court. Now his ankleis all out of sorts, $200.
Chris Davies (40:35):
I did wonder why that was the piece that was
chosen, but it's because he'swrenched. I'm glad it's not too
much of a buzz. Oh no.
Alex Young (40:56):
It's harder than I thought. Yes.
Chris Davies (41:00):
Are we blaming the equipment or or what?
Alex Young (41:04):
I'm gonna blame it on the angle. I mean, a funny
angle.
Chris Davies (41:06):
That's a yes. So the question I was going to ask
is, if you could sum up theimpact of mentoring and just one
word, what would it be?
Alex Young (41:17):
I'd say the experience of or the impact of
mentoring is enriching for bothparties. In terms of, I hope,
I've been able to articulatejust how life changing it can be
for both parties. You know,there's friendship, there's
development, there's sharing ofexperiences, there's growth on
(41:40):
both sides. I think beyond this,the business framing of
mentoring, it's very much aboutcommunity and trust and
relationships, and that theseshouldn't be just seen as point
in time, but this is lifelong,so hopefully people get involved
(42:01):
as a mentor, as an or as amentee, and you're never too old
even to be a mentee. These arerelationships that you could
should consider as part of yournetwork and part of your trusted
personal board advisors, type ofsituation. So I think if you
haven't been involved at all getinvolved. To take take the first
(42:24):
step. It doesn't have to be aformal mentorship or even
coaching situation. It could bejust a let's do it. Let's catch
up for a coffee once a month.
Yeah, I've got some questions. Ireally I love what you've
achieved in marketing Chris andI love to learn from you and
work out, how do I apply some ofwhat you what you've done?
Chris Davies (42:42):
Yeah, awesome. No, I really like that approach, and
I think it makes it, yeah,accessible, which is another
thing that we mentioned. It's soimportant making it as easy as
possible. I'm gonna pull onemore card. Writers cramp. Hey,
that's that's pretty apt for myjournalistic and copywriting
background. Sam has a crampright in his wrist from writing
(43:06):
out a very long grocery list$300. As I do this, I'm going to
ask you, Alex, has our game ofOperation drawn parallels with
the world of mentoring?
Alex Young (43:18):
Hmm? It's probably not as I'd say, mentoring is
Chris Davies (43:18):
Yeah, yeah, great.
Well, I think we've given Sameasier than playing the game of
operation. Or it's moreforgiving. Yes, it's more
forgiving. Pulling a bone out ofa very small hole a tweezer is
tricky. But I think, I think,you know, the world of
(43:42):
mentorship, it's, it's, it'sthe time and attention he
deserves. I hope he's gothumans, it's just talking, it's
communicating, it's sharing,it's supporting each other. So
it's a lot more forgiving, yeah?
And I think it's just aboutcommitting some time and being
there for each other.
(44:06):
something out of today. We'vefixed some some broken bones
along the way. But yeah, thanksso much for today's
conversation, Alex,lots ofthings we've discussed, the
power of mentorship, fosteringtalent. Yeah, those those
relationships, what makes a goodmentor, mentee, etc. So yeah,
(44:27):
really appreciate it. If anyonewants to kind of follow your
journey and learn what they'redoing, how do they find that?
How do they find you?
Alex Young (44:35):
I'm available on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active with
my profile. Feel free to connectwith me. I'm very open to
meeting new people, connectingif you'd like to have a chat,
always open for that. I alsohave a medium page. I'll share a
link. So I do like to write.
Unlike you, I have no trainingin writing, but once again, in a
(44:58):
little bit of my journey istrying to extrapolate from my
head. What do I know? What can Ishare with others? And writing
is a great way to do it. So I dohave a medium page, and when I
share some of my insights.
Chris Davies (45:13):
Yeah, fantastic.
And we can share all those thoselinks with our listeners, but
yeah, thanks so much, Alex. It'sbeen a great conversation. And
yeah. Hope everyone enjoyedtoday's episode. Make sure to
just subscribe to the techtrajectory podcast, and we'll be
back next month with moreinsights from the people shaping
the future of technology. Alex,thank you very much.
Alex Young (45:33):
Thank you. Chris.
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