Embark with us on a tech adventure that's anything but ordinary as Sandy Carter, COO of Unstoppable Domains and former VP of Amazon Web Services joins me to unravel the complex skein of Web3 and blockchain technology. Together, we peel back the layers of decentralization, discussing its power to shift control back into the hands of the digital citizenry. Sandy's riveting transition from cloud computing to the vanguard of the Web3 revolution is a story of tech evolution, as we examine the potential of blockchain to solve real-world puzzles like the labyrinth of international medical record access—a testament to the transformative nature of this emerging digital landscape.
As we navigate the crossroads of innovation, Sandy and I wander into the burgeoning territory of spatial computing and the Metaverse, where our interactions and personal brands are being reimagined. The conversation turns visionary with the prospect of Apple Vision glasses and other technologies that promise to weave a 3D internet into the fabric of our everyday lives, all while keeping a keen eye on ensuring no one is left behind in this digital metamorphosis. Diving further into the synergy of blockchain and AI, we uncover the untapped potential for heightened trust and efficiency across sectors, and Sandy provides a keen perspective on the pivotal role of ethical AI. This is a rendezvous with the future of technology where we're not just spectators – we're participants shaping the narrative.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Tech Travels hosted by the seasoned
tech enthusiast and industryexpert, steve Woodard.
With over 25 years ofexperience and a track record of
collaborating with thebrightest minds in technology,
steve is your seasoned guidethrough the ever-evolving world
of innovation.
Join us as we embark on aninsightful journey, exploring
(00:27):
the past, present and future oftech under Steve's expert
guidance.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back, fellow travelers, to another exciting
episode of Tech Travels.
Today we have a trulyexceptional guest joining us,
sandy Carter.
Sandy is the Chief OperatingOfficer for unstoppable domains.
She's a former executive atAmazon Web Services and she has
played a pivotal role in drivingbusiness innovation and
transformation.
As a thought leader, she's alsorecognized in the industry and
(00:56):
the emerging technologies, witha special focus on AI, cloud and
Web3.
Beyond her corporateachievements, she's also a
best-selling author.
She bring her insights on booksthat help navigate complex
intersections of technology andbusiness.
Sandy, thank you so much forcoming on the show, happy for
you to be here and lookingforward to our discussion today.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Absolutely so, before we jump into Web3 and the
metaverse, can you tell us alittle bit about your background
and catch us up on where youare now in this incredible
journey?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, so I actually started out.
Steve wanting to be a doctorhad this great professor advisor
who did technology as well asmedicine, and so he was advising
me, and it turns out that Ipass out if I smell certain
chemicals in a doctor's office.
So that is not a great thingfor a doctor, and so he
(01:49):
convinced me that I could usecomputers for good.
So I did my senior thesis ondoing drug testing on a computer
versus on animals, which I'mstill today very passionate
about, and that kind of led meinto tech.
So I've really been in tech forever since I graduated.
I love technology.
(02:10):
My last big company tech rolewas with Amazon Web Services, a
company that I really loved andlearned so much from, and, as
always, there, I helped createthe first enterprise workload
division and work on ourregulated industry products and
portfolio and started goingdoing a deep dive on blockchain
(02:31):
at a request of some of ourcustomers at Amazon, really fell
in love with the technologyitself and then did a deep dive
into the metaverse and itstechnology and, long story short
, that led me to wanting to dosomething in the Web3 and
blockchain space.
Now I had been doing AI since2013, so I didn't want to leave
that behind either, but when Iheard about what Unstoppable was
(02:56):
doing with that digitalidentity platform, I took the
big leap leaving a company thatI really did love.
I really and truly loved Amazonto go into something new and
exciting and to kind of reallystart a new revolution in the
tech space.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
You know, it is truly remarkable to hear about your
journey, sandy, and the way thatyou've transitioned from a
major role at Amazon WebServices into the frontier of
blockchain and metaverse isreally a testament to your
passion and innovation.
It's often said that blockchainreally acts as an entry point
or a gateway for many pioneersin the Web3 space, and I find
(03:31):
that it's the foundationaltechnology where many really do
begin their journey and kind ofdraw into its promise of the
immutable and revolutionaryledger system.
But can really, consideringthat Web3 is really celebrated
as the next leap of the Internetand you've aptly really
described your current stages askind of the dial-up era of
connectivity and I'm eager tohear your insights how do you
(03:53):
perceive Web3 as an evolution,starting kind of starting it to
reform the framework ofdecentralized networks and
blockchain integration?
Most importantly, I would loveto hear your unique perspective,
which would be invaluable inunderstanding how these
advancements could potentiallyrevolutionize the tech landscape
as we know it.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yeah, you know, if you think about the whole
internet today, it's very muchcentralized.
That's not where we startedwith the internet, but that's
where we are today.
So, for example, if you loginto, let's say, google, you log
in with your password and yourID.
That is not actually yourpassword and ID, because at any
time someone could remove thatfrom you and all the data that
(04:36):
they're collecting about you istheir data.
We know this because we knowMetta and Google just declare
that they had $100 billion ofrevenue from selling our data to
other people.
So fast forward to Web 3.
And what Web 3 does is itreally decentralizes that
because of the blockchain, itenables really the entity of
(04:58):
blocks to have all thatinformation versus one
centralized entity, company orcountry that owns that.
So, for example, we saw thisreally clearly when Twitter
rebranded to X.
Someone had been using X astheir digital identity.
It was immediately takenbecause the Twitter team wanted
it, and so they lost all thathistory, everything that they
(05:20):
had.
They lost.
They were given a new digitalidentity, but it was not the
same one, not the one that theythought that they owned.
So in Web 3, that digitalidentity is yours.
It lives on chain or on theblockchain, and so the data
that's collected about you, aswell as your identity, is yours,
and we believe this is soimportant.
It's like another human rightis that data about you belongs
(05:44):
to you, not to another party?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, it's incredible because it's like it's in a
sense, it's like a philosophicalshift, returning the rights
since sovereignty back to theindividual and giving them the
ability to make a choice as towhere they want to be able to
move their data.
I think you did a previousinterview before and I think you
had mentioned something aboutyou had to have an operation in
Brazil and it took a couple daysfor them to get your medical
(06:09):
record.
Can you kind of expand on thatexperience and what that might
mean for our listeners?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yeah, it was really crazy.
So I I actually had an accidentin Brazil and I broke
everything on my left side.
It took me four hours to get tothe hospital, but when I was
there, I wanted to have surgeryright away so I could end the
pain.
Well, they told me they had toget records from two or three
different hospitals and doctorsthat I had, and it took
(06:37):
overnight.
So I actually had my surgerydelayed by almost a full day
because they didn't have accessto the records.
Now imagine another world wherethat digital identity is mine.
I could pull it up.
It would be protected still onchain only my private data but I
could have just given it tothem.
In terms of my medical care, itcould have been instantaneous,
(07:00):
which I think is what we allwant, but it goes beyond, just
like healthcare.
You know.
Also, if you think about youknow things like your diploma.
I was reading an article fromFacebook where they said 36% of
people who list things on theirprofile like their education is
actually not accurate.
And so who do you trust and howdo you trust them?
(07:21):
How do you verify it?
Blockchain is great for that.
It has that trustedverification so that you can
validate.
You know what's reallyimportant to you.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
That is a harrowing experience.
I think it really highlightsthe critical issue that really
many people feel today.
I think the ability to haveinstant, secure access to the
personal data, especially duringemergencies, is really a game
changer.
Now I think the potential forreally for blockchain to really
say is to safeguard our digitalidentities and I also think to
(07:52):
streamline that verificationprocess is the revolutionary
part about health not justhealthcare but also across
various sectors.
But when it comes to Web 3 andthe Metaverse, I'm really
fascinated by the implicationsspecifically around user
identity in virtual spaces, sothat, given the Metaverse really
is kind of an essentialcollective virtual shared space,
(08:12):
we think about the way that weestablish and maintain that
digital identity takes on newdimensions, new dimensions for
complexity and importance andI'm wondering if you could delve
deeper into how the digitalidentity is really managed
within the Metaverse.
I mean, do you envisionblockchain ensuring that our
digital or virtual avatars andassets are secure in truly ours?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Well, I love it, you know, because originally the
trend was, as you entereddifferent Metaverse's, your
avatar would change.
It would look completelydifferent, as we've really
matured in the Metaverse.
Now we see people want to keeptheir brand from Metaverse to
Metaverse, so that you couldrecognize me, whether I was in
an AXI Infinity game or aSandbox game or an Atlantis game
(08:56):
, that you knew who I was.
Just like we know if we go to aconference, right, we change
clothes, but we look the same,and so, with a digital identity,
it attaches to an avatar.
So as you log into a Metaverse,your avatar just comes with you
, which I really love.
It can also identify you like,imagine, above your head it
would say you know sandyx, andthat would be my identity too,
(09:20):
which is really powerful in alot of blockchain games where
you know on the leaderboard, youdon't want your crypto address,
you want your name on theleaderboard if you make the
leaderboard.
So I think that this is just aphenomenal.
You know space to be in and Ialso think, steve, you know
there's a lot of questions wherepeople say you know the
Metaverse is dead.
Long live the Metaverse.
(09:40):
You know, spatial computing isthe Metaverse like.
We're talking about spatialcomputing now like it's
something brand new, but it'sjust the Metaverse.
It's just another word for theMetaverse.
So the, the new glasses, theApple Vision glasses all of that
is the Metaverse.
And I was just at NFT Paris.
I got to experience a digitalfashion show and then the in
(10:02):
real life fashion show.
I do believe there's legs here.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
It may not be right away, but I do believe there are
legs around this whole conceptyeah, it's incredible, your
insights, I mean really justkind of evolving, you know, in
in the nature of identity in theMetaverse.
I think it's really eye-opening.
The idea of really carrying aconsistent avatar and digital
identity across those platformsis really powerful and it adds a
layer of really kind of thatpersonal branding and
(10:27):
recognition that really echoesthat physical world interactions
, kind of like being across youknow kind of you know across
different conferences, as youmentioned.
But the concept of spatialcomputing, I think, adds another
layer of a layer to theconversation.
When we talk about spatialcomputing I think it's often
wrapped up in a lot of technicaljargon.
So could you kind of unpack theterm for us?
(10:49):
How does spatial computingenhance those interactions in
the Metaverse?
And what about technologieslike Apple Vision's Vision Pro,
like where do you see themcoming into play?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
so spatial computing to me is, you know, making sure
that you're looking at theinternet, and maybe a 3d version
.
Typically, it doesn't alwayshave to be, though, that you
would use some sort of glassesor something to facilitate your
entry into that space.
I had the opportunity to try it, and it's just an incredible
(11:21):
experience.
Like it gets you closer thananything.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I haven't had it yet, but I definitely tell my on my
little wishlist for Christmas toreally feeling that 3d like
you're there.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
You're actually physically there.
It's not like you're kind of alittle avatar in the space.
You're actually in the space.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
So I think it really makes a difference using some of
these spatial technologies tohelp drive the Metaverse forward
how do we see and I'm alwayscurious to hear this is from
from entrepreneurs is how do westart to see the, the change and
kind of the social interactionsstarting to shift into more of
kind of a metaverse with Oculusor a Vision Pro?
Is how do we start to envisiona future where we start to shift
(11:58):
a business model towards thingslike mobile tablets?
Maybe not everybody canexperience the metaverse through
these type of simple glasses.
What is an optional way thatthey can experience it through
mobile?
Or is there a shift starting tohappen in this venue?
We just need to see it a littlebit clearly.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
There's a lot of options where you don't have to
have the glasses.
You can actually experience themetaverse without glasses.
I actually just taught a class.
It was quite funny.
I just taught a class in themetaverse and nobody was
required any extra glasses oranything because they wanted the
class to be accessible for all.
That, to me, was really cool,because that means just having
(12:39):
internet.
You're lucky if you haveinternet access, because not
everybody in the world has that.
Those glasses from Apple,they're like $3,600.
That's not going to be foreverybody.
I love these metaverses thatalso make it very accessible but
yet still very real to peopleentering in the metaverse.
I don't know which way it'sgoing to go yet, steve.
(12:59):
I don't know if the hardwareprices are going to come down so
that you can use it, or if theexperience without glasses is
going to go up, or maybesomewhere in between.
I do see that that will happenover time.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
I want to see if I could askyou a little bit about
unstoppable domains and reallysome of the partnerships that
you have in this environment.
I know that this is definitelyan every evolving field.
It seems like every day there'sa new wow factor with Web 3.
What are you seeing from yourpartnership from a partnership
(13:39):
perspective, and what are youseeing from an adoption
perspective?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Today at Unstoppable, we have four million digital
identities out in the space.
We are the largest digitalidentity platform, but our
mission is to get a digitalidentity into the hands of every
person.
That's seven billion people.
We still have a long way to go.
This is a journey.
It's a marathon.
It's not a sprint.
(14:05):
If you think about thepartnerships that we formed with
Unstoppable, one of our primegoals has been to provide
utility to people.
What that means is to providethem value from owning that
digital identity.
That could be something assimple as doing messaging.
We now have encrypted messaging.
I can message four milliondigital identity holders out
(14:27):
there.
I can message any Coinbasewallet holder.
I can message any Lens protocoluser.
I think that's a reallypowerful use case.
I can send encrypted email,which is really important, with
my domain.
I can do crypto exchanges.
I can use Sandyx to buysomething with crypto.
(14:49):
That was our initial use caseand it's still our number one.
We do 30,000 transactions aweek just taking Sandyx,
transitioning it into my 21digits and numbers and letters
of my crypto address and back.
I think that's prettyimpressive, given where the
market has been lately as well.
(15:10):
I think these partners addamazing value.
Some of it is real, solidutility.
Some of it is emotionalconnection.
We just announced at NFT Paristhat we were going to be doing
an extension for the Pudgypenguins.
If you don't know, the Pudgypenguins are a big blue chip NFT
(15:31):
collection.
But they've really expanded.
They really consider themselvesa brand, a Web3 brand.
They've been doing these littleplushies.
I have one right here.
Let me bring it in.
My daughter brought me thisthis morning.
This is a Pudgyx.
It has a little tag on it.
You can get into their Pudgyworld.
What they're doing is reallythat whole digital experience
(15:54):
providing real life item.
That gets you into a game, aPudgy world game.
Now you have your own identity.
Now I'm Sandypudgy.
That real combination is prettycool.
That is providing utility, butit's also providing that
emotional connection.
Who doesn't want Sandypudgy?
(16:15):
It just stands for something socool.
Both my daughters wanted itimmediately by the way.
Those are the things that we'redoing here at Unstoppable.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
That's interesting.
I love to hear the stories likethat that hit a home you know
close to the heart, especiallywith toys that might have twin
three year old boys and theylove their stuff, they, they,
they love their stuffed animals,they.
One of them has basically whatwe call Sammy the sloth and the
other one is basically monk it's, it's great.
So I totally get the attachment.
I want to transition and talk alittle bit around blockchain
(16:49):
and AI.
I don't think the conversationwould be complete around Web
three unless we talked aboutboth.
So question for you is I knowthat AI is really becoming
increasingly intertwined in allthese emerging technologies,
especially with Web three in themetaverse.
So how do you see AI asenhancing that user experience
that drives innovation withinthese futuristic environments?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Oh, wow.
So I love this topic.
I think that we could talkabout this probably forever.
Blockchain and AI I think areare really meant to be right,
because blockchain enhances AI.
It brings to it data security,that decentralization and trust
that's so important transparency.
(17:33):
So, if you think about it, forme real world use cases will
involve both blockchain andartificial intelligence.
I think there's a convergencethat's going to happen there.
Now, why is this so important?
Well, if you think about it,you know we as humans sometimes
get attracted by the next littleshiny object, which happens to
(17:55):
be AI, but in reality, I thinkit's going to be, you know,
spatial Web three that has adigital identity.
Blockchain and AI that are goingto work together.
So, for example, I met with oneconference.
I met someone in the foodindustry.
Blockchain tracks theirproducts journey from farm to
table.
(18:15):
There are farming, anagriculture solution, farm to
table, but they use AI toanalyze the data so they have a
better supply chain decision.
I think that's a really cooluse of the two technologies
together.
I also attended this the sessionwith 100 healthcare startups in
New York City, and one of themwas using an AI chatbot to
(18:38):
assist with patients, butblockchain was securing that
sensitive medical data.
So together they wereempowering this.
Medical solutions, securingdata sharing with advanced
analytics, and I could go on andon with these type of solutions
.
I'll give you another one thatwe've been thinking a lot about
(18:58):
at unstoppable, which is youknow, 49% of the world's
population will experience anelection this year, and the
number one thing people areworried about is I see my
candidate, but is that really mycandidate Like?
Is that his video?
Is that his picture?
Is that his tweet?
And so now, using blockchain,you can actually provide that
(19:21):
verification.
Consider a green check besidessomething that you see in the
news or a picture on Twitter ora video, you can actually verify
that with blockchain, and forme, that's such a powerful use
case that could really be a gamechanger, especially this year,
when we have so much of theworld's population going through
elections and trust is soimportant right now.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Right, that's exactly true.
It's incredible you mentionedthat, because it almost kind of
took the next topic off my mind,which is, you know, leveraging
AI, because now we're in a worldwhere AI is generating all this
content and we don't know if,in fact, if it's a real person,
or if it's the person whoactually connected with the
content.
How do we have a way tosolidify trust?
(20:02):
That was my big question.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, and I do think that blockchain plays a role in
there.
Like, let's imagine you knowthe Pope's picture I don't know
if you saw it or one of the 4million people who retweeted it
the Pope was in a puffer jacket.
It was a Balmond puffer jacket,so it was like a branded puffer
jacket.
The Pope was in that jacket andpeople were going, oh look, the
Pope's so cool, he's in apuffer.
And then it later came out thatthat actually wasn't a real
(20:27):
picture.
That was an AI-generatedpicture.
So, imagine if the world changedto wear anything that was
verified, not AI-generated, hada green checkmark by it.
You can do that today.
We actually have filed for apatent in that space where you
can actually put that trustverification, so you could
(20:48):
actually verify with Sandypudgyor Sandyx.
You could validate that.
Hey, this is really a pictureof me, or this is really my
video, or this is really myquote.
It was funny because theopposite happened to me.
I had been at an event in LAaround blockchain and AI, and it
(21:09):
was a red carpet event, so Ibrought out my nice gown.
It was freezing cold Like Ithought LA was supposed to be
warm, so cold, so I really didput on a puffer jacket.
Somebody really did take apicture of me and posted it, so
once the Pope's picture, though,was viewed as fake.
When I posted my picture,people said oh, your picture is
(21:31):
fake too.
So now you really have amassive trust issue, because
what's true is questioned andwhat's not true is questioned.
So how do you validate it?
I really think that blockchainis the main way that we can
validate all of that content, ifwe could do it in a scalable
fashion.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
And this involves basically kind of having the
content for a person who'sgenerating content or the person
having their way for them todigitally sign with some sort of
cryptographic key, the abilityto verify yes, this person did
sign this, they did post it, wecan validate it using the
blockchain with their public keyand they did sign it, so
(22:15):
something like that.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Right, Absolutely, that's absolutely right.
Yep, you got it.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And, of course, I can't let the question go about
around AI as, in your opinion,really kind of getting into this
.
What role does kind of ethicalAI play in the development of
future blockchain technologiesand how?
Organizations what would beyour message to organizations
ensuring responsible andtransparent use of these
technologies?
What's your message to them?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, I feel really passionate about this In fact,
so passionate, steve.
I did like three or fourspeeches on it and I got named
one of the top 10 responsible AIleaders for 2023.
This is something that's reallyclose to my heart, for sure.
So I think that every companyhas a responsibility to ensure
that the data that they're usingis the right data, that it's
(23:05):
diverse data, that it reallyrepresents what's going on and,
if it doesn't, that they need totell people about it.
That means governance, thatmeans training employees, that
means making sure that you'vegot everything lined up to do
this in the appropriate way.
It was really fascinating to mebecause you know, and well, let
(23:26):
me just take women's health.
There are some great AI healthtools out there.
In fact, one has a 77%likelihood of predicting liver
disease using just a blood test.
That's so cool, right?
What we didn't know is itmissed liver disease and 44% of
the female patients because theydidn't have enough data on
(23:49):
female patients.
They had female patients, whohave different markers than men,
and so missing 44% for women isunacceptable, and so, how you
know, maybe we should havelabeled it.
Hey, this was this.
Ai model was trained with 90%male data, so that you know the
risk of using or leveraging it.
(24:10):
I was just reading a story aboutCOVID and they were using some
AI testers and they found thatoxygen level in people varies by
the color of your skin, so theyweren't detecting certain
trends for African-Americanpatients.
These type of things need to benoted.
You really need to do a goodjob of identifying that data,
(24:33):
and it's not just healthcare,it's all kind of data.
I was working with one groupand they had this data.
They ran it through an AI.
They was like I got to presentthis to the board and I kept
saying where did the data comefrom?
Is the data right?
And that was the first questionthe board asked them.
They couldn't validate it andit really ruined their entire
thesis because the data waswrong.
(24:55):
So I think this is super, superimportant.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
That's incredible and I know you mentioned you're
very passionate about it.
I know you're also verypassionate about this.
Another thing women of Web 3,tell me about it.
How have you been doing with it?
You'd launch this onInternational Women's Day.
Tell me how it's going.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yeah, we launched it.
This will now be our third yearfor International Women's the
group and it's calledUnstoppable Women of Web3.
And we added AI because peoplewere like Web3 or blockchain and
AI is so hot.
This group is really importantto me because it provides
education for women.
In fact, on InternationalWomen's Day, we're gonna be
(25:34):
selling a t-shirt and theproceeds from that t-shirt a
portion of them I think it's $10a shirt will go to additional
training around the metaverseand around Web3.
The second thing I'm verypassionate about is showcasing
women.
I really love the quote.
If you can see it, you can beit.
So we've been highlightingamazing women.
(25:57):
Now We've done it for threedifferent times the most
inspirational women of Web3 andthe most inspirational girls of
Web3.
So you can see all theseamazing leaders.
And then the last thing thatwe've been doing is really
looking at how you get groupstogether so they form support
networks or tribes.
(26:18):
So we've also been focused onthat and we're real excited this
March 8th, internationalWomen's Day, will be able to do
another Twitter space aroundsome cool topics as well, as
we'll be able to hopefully raisesome funds to get some more
education out there as well.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Education and training and upscaling is
essential.
I definitely am plus one on theidea of creating a very unique
space where people can comelearn, collaborate.
I know you mentioned kind ofthis tribal knowledge.
It's exciting to see what's onyour horizon for the next three
years in this space.
It's growing so fast.
I mean, every day there seemsto be a wow factor.
What are you seeing from athree year trajectory, as we
(26:57):
kind of round out our segment?
What's your predictions for thefuture?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Let's see.
So predictions for the future Ithink that we're gonna see more
discussion about thisconvergence.
I was just at a conferencewhere tokenization was so hot
Tokenizing real world assets andthen using those real world
assets with AI.
I think that's gonna be a hotone.
Tokenization, I also thinkfiguring out trust, and trust is
(27:26):
a lot of things.
It's not just what we talkedabout here Regaining trust,
building trust, proving trust inassets.
I think that's gonna become areally important one.
And then I think, like I said,the convergence is gonna be hot.
I think all of thesetechnologies are gonna be
converging.
I wrote a couple articles on it.
I'm starting to see more nowcome out about this convergence,
(27:48):
which I think will beinteresting, and the other one
I'll surprise you with this onespace.
I think we're gonna starthearing more about space
startups and what's going on.
When I was at AWS, I startedthe Space Accelerator.
I thought it was so cool.
At one of the conferences, Iwas in a round table about
tokenizing space debris and eventokenizing satellites so that
(28:12):
smaller countries could getaccess to some of that data.
I think we're gonna startseeing some of the fruition of
the output of some of thosespace startups as well.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
That's incredible.
I will look forward to havingyou on.
I would love to hear you talkmore about this tokenization and
space again on our futureprograms.
Sandy, thank you so very muchfor coming on the show today and
sharing your incrediblyinsightful, inspiring
conversation on tech travels.
Your wealth of knowledge andyour experience as truly
enriched our understanding ofWeb3 and the Metaverse.
I wanna thank you so much forthis opportunity.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Thank you, Steve.
I'll talk to you soon.
Lea ك어요ناcionalcom.
Welcome to Tech Travels hosted by the seasoned
tech enthusiast and industryexpert, steve Woodard.
With over 25 years ofexperience and a track record of
collaborating with thebrightest minds in technology,
steve is your seasoned guidethrough the ever-evolving world
of innovation.
Join us as we embark on aninsightful journey, exploring
(00:27):
the past, present and future oftech under Steve's expert
guidance.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Welcome back, fellow travelers, to another exciting
episode of Tech Travels.
Today we have a trulyexceptional guest joining us,
sandy Carter.
Sandy is the Chief OperatingOfficer for unstoppable domains.
She's a former executive atAmazon Web Services and she has
played a pivotal role in drivingbusiness innovation and
transformation.
As a thought leader, she's alsorecognized in the industry and
(00:56):
the emerging technologies, witha special focus on AI, cloud and
Web3.
Beyond her corporateachievements, she's also a
best-selling author.
She bring her insights on booksthat help navigate complex
intersections of technology andbusiness.
Sandy, thank you so much forcoming on the show, happy for
you to be here and lookingforward to our discussion today.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Absolutely so, before we jump into Web3 and the
metaverse, can you tell us alittle bit about your background
and catch us up on where youare now in this incredible
journey?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, so I actually started out.
Steve wanting to be a doctorhad this great professor advisor
who did technology as well asmedicine, and so he was advising
me, and it turns out that Ipass out if I smell certain
chemicals in a doctor's office.
So that is not a great thingfor a doctor, and so he
(01:49):
convinced me that I could usecomputers for good.
So I did my senior thesis ondoing drug testing on a computer
versus on animals, which I'mstill today very passionate
about, and that kind of led meinto tech.
So I've really been in tech forever since I graduated.
I love technology.
(02:10):
My last big company tech rolewas with Amazon Web Services, a
company that I really loved andlearned so much from, and, as
always, there, I helped createthe first enterprise workload
division and work on ourregulated industry products and
portfolio and started goingdoing a deep dive on blockchain
(02:31):
at a request of some of ourcustomers at Amazon, really fell
in love with the technologyitself and then did a deep dive
into the metaverse and itstechnology and, long story short
, that led me to wanting to dosomething in the Web3 and
blockchain space.
Now I had been doing AI since2013, so I didn't want to leave
that behind either, but when Iheard about what Unstoppable was
(02:56):
doing with that digitalidentity platform, I took the
big leap leaving a company thatI really did love.
I really and truly loved Amazonto go into something new and
exciting and to kind of reallystart a new revolution in the
tech space.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
You know, it is truly remarkable to hear about your
journey, sandy, and the way thatyou've transitioned from a
major role at Amazon WebServices into the frontier of
blockchain and metaverse isreally a testament to your
passion and innovation.
It's often said that blockchainreally acts as an entry point
or a gateway for many pioneersin the Web3 space, and I find
(03:31):
that it's the foundationaltechnology where many really do
begin their journey and kind ofdraw into its promise of the
immutable and revolutionaryledger system.
But can really, consideringthat Web3 is really celebrated
as the next leap of the Internetand you've aptly really
described your current stages askind of the dial-up era of
connectivity and I'm eager tohear your insights how do you
(03:53):
perceive Web3 as an evolution,starting kind of starting it to
reform the framework ofdecentralized networks and
blockchain integration?
Most importantly, I would loveto hear your unique perspective,
which would be invaluable inunderstanding how these
advancements could potentiallyrevolutionize the tech landscape
as we know it.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yeah, you know, if you think about the whole
internet today, it's very muchcentralized.
That's not where we startedwith the internet, but that's
where we are today.
So, for example, if you loginto, let's say, google, you log
in with your password and yourID.
That is not actually yourpassword and ID, because at any
time someone could remove thatfrom you and all the data that
(04:36):
they're collecting about you istheir data.
We know this because we knowMetta and Google just declare
that they had $100 billion ofrevenue from selling our data to
other people.
So fast forward to Web 3.
And what Web 3 does is itreally decentralizes that
because of the blockchain, itenables really the entity of
(04:58):
blocks to have all thatinformation versus one
centralized entity, company orcountry that owns that.
So, for example, we saw thisreally clearly when Twitter
rebranded to X.
Someone had been using X astheir digital identity.
It was immediately takenbecause the Twitter team wanted
it, and so they lost all thathistory, everything that they
(05:20):
had.
They lost.
They were given a new digitalidentity, but it was not the
same one, not the one that theythought that they owned.
So in Web 3, that digitalidentity is yours.
It lives on chain or on theblockchain, and so the data
that's collected about you, aswell as your identity, is yours,
and we believe this is soimportant.
It's like another human rightis that data about you belongs
(05:44):
to you, not to another party?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, it's incredible because it's like it's in a
sense, it's like a philosophicalshift, returning the rights
since sovereignty back to theindividual and giving them the
ability to make a choice as towhere they want to be able to
move their data.
I think you did a previousinterview before and I think you
had mentioned something aboutyou had to have an operation in
Brazil and it took a couple daysfor them to get your medical
(06:09):
record.
Can you kind of expand on thatexperience and what that might
mean for our listeners?
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yeah, it was really crazy.
So I I actually had an accidentin Brazil and I broke
everything on my left side.
It took me four hours to get tothe hospital, but when I was
there, I wanted to have surgeryright away so I could end the
pain.
Well, they told me they had toget records from two or three
different hospitals and doctorsthat I had, and it took
(06:37):
overnight.
So I actually had my surgerydelayed by almost a full day
because they didn't have accessto the records.
Now imagine another world wherethat digital identity is mine.
I could pull it up.
It would be protected still onchain only my private data but I
could have just given it tothem.
In terms of my medical care, itcould have been instantaneous,
(07:00):
which I think is what we allwant, but it goes beyond, just
like healthcare.
You know.
Also, if you think about youknow things like your diploma.
I was reading an article fromFacebook where they said 36% of
people who list things on theirprofile like their education is
actually not accurate.
And so who do you trust and howdo you trust them?
(07:21):
How do you verify it?
Blockchain is great for that.
It has that trustedverification so that you can
validate.
You know what's reallyimportant to you.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
That is a harrowing experience.
I think it really highlightsthe critical issue that really
many people feel today.
I think the ability to haveinstant, secure access to the
personal data, especially duringemergencies, is really a game
changer.
Now I think the potential forreally for blockchain to really
say is to safeguard our digitalidentities and I also think to
(07:52):
streamline that verificationprocess is the revolutionary
part about health not justhealthcare but also across
various sectors.
But when it comes to Web 3 andthe Metaverse, I'm really
fascinated by the implicationsspecifically around user
identity in virtual spaces, sothat, given the Metaverse really
is kind of an essentialcollective virtual shared space,
(08:12):
we think about the way that weestablish and maintain that
digital identity takes on newdimensions, new dimensions for
complexity and importance andI'm wondering if you could delve
deeper into how the digitalidentity is really managed
within the Metaverse.
I mean, do you envisionblockchain ensuring that our
digital or virtual avatars andassets are secure in truly ours?
Speaker 3 (08:34):
Well, I love it, you know, because originally the
trend was, as you entereddifferent Metaverse's, your
avatar would change.
It would look completelydifferent, as we've really
matured in the Metaverse.
Now we see people want to keeptheir brand from Metaverse to
Metaverse, so that you couldrecognize me, whether I was in
an AXI Infinity game or aSandbox game or an Atlantis game
(08:56):
, that you knew who I was.
Just like we know if we go to aconference, right, we change
clothes, but we look the same,and so, with a digital identity,
it attaches to an avatar.
So as you log into a Metaverse,your avatar just comes with you
, which I really love.
It can also identify you like,imagine, above your head it
would say you know sandyx, andthat would be my identity too,
(09:20):
which is really powerful in alot of blockchain games where
you know on the leaderboard, youdon't want your crypto address,
you want your name on theleaderboard if you make the
leaderboard.
So I think that this is just aphenomenal.
You know space to be in and Ialso think, steve, you know
there's a lot of questions wherepeople say you know the
Metaverse is dead.
Long live the Metaverse.
(09:40):
You know, spatial computing isthe Metaverse like.
We're talking about spatialcomputing now like it's
something brand new, but it'sjust the Metaverse.
It's just another word for theMetaverse.
So the, the new glasses, theApple Vision glasses all of that
is the Metaverse.
And I was just at NFT Paris.
I got to experience a digitalfashion show and then the in
(10:02):
real life fashion show.
I do believe there's legs here.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
It may not be right away, but I do believe there are
legs around this whole conceptyeah, it's incredible, your
insights, I mean really justkind of evolving, you know, in
in the nature of identity in theMetaverse.
I think it's really eye-opening.
The idea of really carrying aconsistent avatar and digital
identity across those platformsis really powerful and it adds a
layer of really kind of thatpersonal branding and
(10:27):
recognition that really echoesthat physical world interactions
, kind of like being across youknow kind of you know across
different conferences, as youmentioned.
But the concept of spatialcomputing, I think, adds another
layer of a layer to theconversation.
When we talk about spatialcomputing I think it's often
wrapped up in a lot of technicaljargon.
So could you kind of unpack theterm for us?
(10:49):
How does spatial computingenhance those interactions in
the Metaverse?
And what about technologieslike Apple Vision's Vision Pro,
like where do you see themcoming into play?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
so spatial computing to me is, you know, making sure
that you're looking at theinternet, and maybe a 3d version
.
Typically, it doesn't alwayshave to be, though, that you
would use some sort of glassesor something to facilitate your
entry into that space.
I had the opportunity to try it, and it's just an incredible
(11:21):
experience.
Like it gets you closer thananything.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
I haven't had it yet, but I definitely tell my on my
little wishlist for Christmas toreally feeling that 3d like
you're there.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
You're actually physically there.
It's not like you're kind of alittle avatar in the space.
You're actually in the space.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
So I think it really makes a difference using some of
these spatial technologies tohelp drive the Metaverse forward
how do we see and I'm alwayscurious to hear this is from
from entrepreneurs is how do westart to see the, the change and
kind of the social interactionsstarting to shift into more of
kind of a metaverse with Oculusor a Vision Pro?
Is how do we start to envisiona future where we start to shift
(11:58):
a business model towards thingslike mobile tablets?
Maybe not everybody canexperience the metaverse through
these type of simple glasses.
What is an optional way thatthey can experience it through
mobile?
Or is there a shift starting tohappen in this venue?
We just need to see it a littlebit clearly.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
There's a lot of options where you don't have to
have the glasses.
You can actually experience themetaverse without glasses.
I actually just taught a class.
It was quite funny.
I just taught a class in themetaverse and nobody was
required any extra glasses oranything because they wanted the
class to be accessible for all.
That, to me, was really cool,because that means just having
(12:39):
internet.
You're lucky if you haveinternet access, because not
everybody in the world has that.
Those glasses from Apple,they're like $3,600.
That's not going to be foreverybody.
I love these metaverses thatalso make it very accessible but
yet still very real to peopleentering in the metaverse.
I don't know which way it'sgoing to go yet, steve.
(12:59):
I don't know if the hardwareprices are going to come down so
that you can use it, or if theexperience without glasses is
going to go up, or maybesomewhere in between.
I do see that that will happenover time.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
I want to see if I could askyou a little bit about
unstoppable domains and reallysome of the partnerships that
you have in this environment.
I know that this is definitelyan every evolving field.
It seems like every day there'sa new wow factor with Web 3.
What are you seeing from yourpartnership from a partnership
(13:39):
perspective, and what are youseeing from an adoption
perspective?
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Today at Unstoppable, we have four million digital
identities out in the space.
We are the largest digitalidentity platform, but our
mission is to get a digitalidentity into the hands of every
person.
That's seven billion people.
We still have a long way to go.
This is a journey.
It's a marathon.
It's not a sprint.
(14:05):
If you think about thepartnerships that we formed with
Unstoppable, one of our primegoals has been to provide
utility to people.
What that means is to providethem value from owning that
digital identity.
That could be something assimple as doing messaging.
We now have encrypted messaging.
I can message four milliondigital identity holders out
(14:27):
there.
I can message any Coinbasewallet holder.
I can message any Lens protocoluser.
I think that's a reallypowerful use case.
I can send encrypted email,which is really important, with
my domain.
I can do crypto exchanges.
I can use Sandyx to buysomething with crypto.
(14:49):
That was our initial use caseand it's still our number one.
We do 30,000 transactions aweek just taking Sandyx,
transitioning it into my 21digits and numbers and letters
of my crypto address and back.
I think that's prettyimpressive, given where the
market has been lately as well.
(15:10):
I think these partners addamazing value.
Some of it is real, solidutility.
Some of it is emotionalconnection.
We just announced at NFT Paristhat we were going to be doing
an extension for the Pudgypenguins.
If you don't know, the Pudgypenguins are a big blue chip NFT
(15:31):
collection.
But they've really expanded.
They really consider themselvesa brand, a Web3 brand.
They've been doing these littleplushies.
I have one right here.
Let me bring it in.
My daughter brought me thisthis morning.
This is a Pudgyx.
It has a little tag on it.
You can get into their Pudgyworld.
What they're doing is reallythat whole digital experience
(15:54):
providing real life item.
That gets you into a game, aPudgy world game.
Now you have your own identity.
Now I'm Sandypudgy.
That real combination is prettycool.
That is providing utility, butit's also providing that
emotional connection.
Who doesn't want Sandypudgy?
(16:15):
It just stands for something socool.
Both my daughters wanted itimmediately by the way.
Those are the things that we'redoing here at Unstoppable.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
That's interesting.
I love to hear the stories likethat that hit a home you know
close to the heart, especiallywith toys that might have twin
three year old boys and theylove their stuff, they, they,
they love their stuffed animals,they.
One of them has basically whatwe call Sammy the sloth and the
other one is basically monk it's, it's great.
So I totally get the attachment.
I want to transition and talk alittle bit around blockchain
(16:49):
and AI.
I don't think the conversationwould be complete around Web
three unless we talked aboutboth.
So question for you is I knowthat AI is really becoming
increasingly intertwined in allthese emerging technologies,
especially with Web three in themetaverse.
So how do you see AI asenhancing that user experience
that drives innovation withinthese futuristic environments?
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Oh, wow.
So I love this topic.
I think that we could talkabout this probably forever.
Blockchain and AI I think areare really meant to be right,
because blockchain enhances AI.
It brings to it data security,that decentralization and trust
that's so important transparency.
(17:33):
So, if you think about it, forme real world use cases will
involve both blockchain andartificial intelligence.
I think there's a convergencethat's going to happen there.
Now, why is this so important?
Well, if you think about it,you know we as humans sometimes
get attracted by the next littleshiny object, which happens to
(17:55):
be AI, but in reality, I thinkit's going to be, you know,
spatial Web three that has adigital identity.
Blockchain and AI that are goingto work together.
So, for example, I met with oneconference.
I met someone in the foodindustry.
Blockchain tracks theirproducts journey from farm to
table.
(18:15):
There are farming, anagriculture solution, farm to
table, but they use AI toanalyze the data so they have a
better supply chain decision.
I think that's a really cooluse of the two technologies
together.
I also attended this the sessionwith 100 healthcare startups in
New York City, and one of themwas using an AI chatbot to
(18:38):
assist with patients, butblockchain was securing that
sensitive medical data.
So together they wereempowering this.
Medical solutions, securingdata sharing with advanced
analytics, and I could go on andon with these type of solutions
.
I'll give you another one thatwe've been thinking a lot about
(18:58):
at unstoppable, which is youknow, 49% of the world's
population will experience anelection this year, and the
number one thing people areworried about is I see my
candidate, but is that really mycandidate Like?
Is that his video?
Is that his picture?
Is that his tweet?
And so now, using blockchain,you can actually provide that
(19:21):
verification.
Consider a green check besidessomething that you see in the
news or a picture on Twitter ora video, you can actually verify
that with blockchain, and forme, that's such a powerful use
case that could really be a gamechanger, especially this year,
when we have so much of theworld's population going through
elections and trust is soimportant right now.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Right, that's exactly true.
It's incredible you mentionedthat, because it almost kind of
took the next topic off my mind,which is, you know, leveraging
AI, because now we're in a worldwhere AI is generating all this
content and we don't know if,in fact, if it's a real person,
or if it's the person whoactually connected with the
content.
How do we have a way tosolidify trust?
(20:02):
That was my big question.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Yeah, and I do think that blockchain plays a role in
there.
Like, let's imagine you knowthe Pope's picture I don't know
if you saw it or one of the 4million people who retweeted it
the Pope was in a puffer jacket.
It was a Balmond puffer jacket,so it was like a branded puffer
jacket.
The Pope was in that jacket andpeople were going, oh look, the
Pope's so cool, he's in apuffer.
And then it later came out thatthat actually wasn't a real
(20:27):
picture.
That was an AI-generatedpicture.
So, imagine if the world changedto wear anything that was
verified, not AI-generated, hada green checkmark by it.
You can do that today.
We actually have filed for apatent in that space where you
can actually put that trustverification, so you could
(20:48):
actually verify with Sandypudgyor Sandyx.
You could validate that.
Hey, this is really a pictureof me, or this is really my
video, or this is really myquote.
It was funny because theopposite happened to me.
I had been at an event in LAaround blockchain and AI, and it
(21:09):
was a red carpet event, so Ibrought out my nice gown.
It was freezing cold Like Ithought LA was supposed to be
warm, so cold, so I really didput on a puffer jacket.
Somebody really did take apicture of me and posted it, so
once the Pope's picture, though,was viewed as fake.
When I posted my picture,people said oh, your picture is
(21:31):
fake too.
So now you really have amassive trust issue, because
what's true is questioned andwhat's not true is questioned.
So how do you validate it?
I really think that blockchainis the main way that we can
validate all of that content, ifwe could do it in a scalable
fashion.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
And this involves basically kind of having the
content for a person who'sgenerating content or the person
having their way for them todigitally sign with some sort of
cryptographic key, the abilityto verify yes, this person did
sign this, they did post it, wecan validate it using the
blockchain with their public keyand they did sign it, so
(22:15):
something like that.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Right, Absolutely, that's absolutely right.
Yep, you got it.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
And, of course, I can't let the question go about
around AI as, in your opinion,really kind of getting into this
.
What role does kind of ethicalAI play in the development of
future blockchain technologiesand how?
Organizations what would beyour message to organizations
ensuring responsible andtransparent use of these
technologies?
What's your message to them?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Yeah, I feel really passionate about this In fact,
so passionate, steve.
I did like three or fourspeeches on it and I got named
one of the top 10 responsible AIleaders for 2023.
This is something that's reallyclose to my heart, for sure.
So I think that every companyhas a responsibility to ensure
that the data that they're usingis the right data, that it's
(23:05):
diverse data, that it reallyrepresents what's going on and,
if it doesn't, that they need totell people about it.
That means governance, thatmeans training employees, that
means making sure that you'vegot everything lined up to do
this in the appropriate way.
It was really fascinating to mebecause you know, and well, let
(23:26):
me just take women's health.
There are some great AI healthtools out there.
In fact, one has a 77%likelihood of predicting liver
disease using just a blood test.
That's so cool, right?
What we didn't know is itmissed liver disease and 44% of
the female patients because theydidn't have enough data on
(23:49):
female patients.
They had female patients, whohave different markers than men,
and so missing 44% for women isunacceptable, and so, how you
know, maybe we should havelabeled it.
Hey, this was this.
Ai model was trained with 90%male data, so that you know the
risk of using or leveraging it.
(24:10):
I was just reading a story aboutCOVID and they were using some
AI testers and they found thatoxygen level in people varies by
the color of your skin, so theyweren't detecting certain
trends for African-Americanpatients.
These type of things need to benoted.
You really need to do a goodjob of identifying that data,
(24:33):
and it's not just healthcare,it's all kind of data.
I was working with one groupand they had this data.
They ran it through an AI.
They was like I got to presentthis to the board and I kept
saying where did the data comefrom?
Is the data right?
And that was the first questionthe board asked them.
They couldn't validate it andit really ruined their entire
thesis because the data waswrong.
(24:55):
So I think this is super, superimportant.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
That's incredible and I know you mentioned you're
very passionate about it.
I know you're also verypassionate about this.
Another thing women of Web 3,tell me about it.
How have you been doing with it?
You'd launch this onInternational Women's Day.
Tell me how it's going.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Yeah, we launched it.
This will now be our third yearfor International Women's the
group and it's calledUnstoppable Women of Web3.
And we added AI because peoplewere like Web3 or blockchain and
AI is so hot.
This group is really importantto me because it provides
education for women.
In fact, on InternationalWomen's Day, we're gonna be
(25:34):
selling a t-shirt and theproceeds from that t-shirt a
portion of them I think it's $10a shirt will go to additional
training around the metaverseand around Web3.
The second thing I'm verypassionate about is showcasing
women.
I really love the quote.
If you can see it, you can beit.
So we've been highlightingamazing women.
(25:57):
Now We've done it for threedifferent times the most
inspirational women of Web3 andthe most inspirational girls of
Web3.
So you can see all theseamazing leaders.
And then the last thing thatwe've been doing is really
looking at how you get groupstogether so they form support
networks or tribes.
(26:18):
So we've also been focused onthat and we're real excited this
March 8th, internationalWomen's Day, will be able to do
another Twitter space aroundsome cool topics as well, as
we'll be able to hopefully raisesome funds to get some more
education out there as well.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Education and training and upscaling is
essential.
I definitely am plus one on theidea of creating a very unique
space where people can comelearn, collaborate.
I know you mentioned kind ofthis tribal knowledge.
It's exciting to see what's onyour horizon for the next three
years in this space.
It's growing so fast.
I mean, every day there seemsto be a wow factor.
What are you seeing from athree year trajectory, as we
(26:57):
kind of round out our segment?
What's your predictions for thefuture?
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Let's see.
So predictions for the future Ithink that we're gonna see more
discussion about thisconvergence.
I was just at a conferencewhere tokenization was so hot
Tokenizing real world assets andthen using those real world
assets with AI.
I think that's gonna be a hotone.
Tokenization, I also thinkfiguring out trust, and trust is
(27:26):
a lot of things.
It's not just what we talkedabout here Regaining trust,
building trust, proving trust inassets.
I think that's gonna become areally important one.
And then I think, like I said,the convergence is gonna be hot.
I think all of thesetechnologies are gonna be
converging.
I wrote a couple articles on it.
I'm starting to see more nowcome out about this convergence,
(27:48):
which I think will beinteresting, and the other one
I'll surprise you with this onespace.
I think we're gonna starthearing more about space
startups and what's going on.
When I was at AWS, I startedthe Space Accelerator.
I thought it was so cool.
At one of the conferences, Iwas in a round table about
tokenizing space debris and eventokenizing satellites so that
(28:12):
smaller countries could getaccess to some of that data.
I think we're gonna startseeing some of the fruition of
the output of some of thosespace startups as well.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
That's incredible.
I will look forward to havingyou on.
I would love to hear you talkmore about this tokenization and
space again on our futureprograms.
Sandy, thank you so very muchfor coming on the show today and
sharing your incrediblyinsightful, inspiring
conversation on tech travels.
Your wealth of knowledge andyour experience as truly
enriched our understanding ofWeb3 and the Metaverse.
I wanna thank you so much forthis opportunity.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Thank you, Steve.
I'll talk to you soon.
Lea ك어요ناcionalcom.
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