September 7, 2023 • 38 mins
Can you imagine building a thriving career in tech, overcoming societal stigmas, and then going ahead to establish a non-profit to help others do the same? That's exactly what our guest today, Rick Wolter, has done, and he joins us to share his inspiring journey.
Rick shares how he went from being basically tech illiterate to landing a job in tech and helping others with similar backgrounds of being formerly incarcerated to do the same.
Underdog Devs, is a non-profit dedicated to helping individuals from disadvantaged backgrounds, especially those with a history of incarceration, kickstart their careers in software development.
Interested in giving back? Visit https://www.underdogdevs.org/ to make a charitable donation or contact Rick if you have equipment you'd like to donate or have time to be a mentee.
https://twitter.com/RwoltX
https://twitter.com/UnderdogDevs
Register for the End Of Year Tax Strategies workshops here
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I had never used a smartphone.
At that time when I got out Ihad got a little little taste of
programming, but it was in avery stale.
You know, it wasn't like I hadnever used a smartphone, I was
like technologically illiterate.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is Techie Personal Finance Bootcamp, where
I help tech professionals intheir 20s and 30s balance a
great life today withoutsacrificing their future
possibilities.
I'm your host.
Lucas Casaris, certifiedFinancial Planner and Founder of
Level Up Financial Planning,where I help educate, coach and
build strategies with my clientsto help them take their
financial competence to the nextlevel.
Orlando Gomez and you can catchhim in Season 3, episode 4 on
(00:51):
how he Broke and Attack byBridgina Jingle.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Hello, before I start this episode off.
I just have a quickannouncement.
I haven't done this in a fewyears and I'm actually launching
a registration for an end ofyour tax planning workshop
series to help you control andreduce your taxes prior to the
end of the year.
This will be three workshopsstarting in November, and we'll
be tackling understanding yourtaxes, learn about retirement
(01:14):
accounts and the secret backdoorROS that a lot of my tech
clients are able to use.
Sometimes they can do megabackdoor ROS inside your 401k.
Also, if you had beenpluristocked, we'll cover tech
strategies on how to sell andwhat the impacts of receiving
those are, especially if you'renot familiar with them.
These will be super helpful asyou navigate your career.
(01:35):
And finally, we will betackling charitable contribution
strategies, which is superrelevant.
I'm going to have a handful ofnonprofit guests on from the
Collab Lab, underdog Devs, techby Choice and the Kapoor Center.
So I'm excited for all of thoseinterviews and kind of all the
insights you'll see behind thescenes as far as what it takes
(01:57):
to be a part of an nonprofit,how you can help out and
contribute, and you'll besurprised.
It's not all just about money.
You can give back in other waysand so I hope you enjoy these
next few episodes and, if you'reinterested in signing up,
definitely register beforeprices go up.
Right now it's $30 for allthree workshops and all the
proceeds go to nonprofits, sonot trying to make money on this
(02:20):
, but it's a cool opportunityfor me to educate folks and make
sure that you're more informedas far as how taxes work,
because I know that sometimesit's like a mystery as far as
how taxes come out when you fileyour taxes, and so I'll
actually walk you through allthat.
The link will be in the shownotes.
You can find out moreinformation and reserve your
spot before prices increase onOctober 6.
Hope you can join us.
(02:41):
Hello, thank you for joining meand techie personal finance
bootcamp.
I'm excited.
I have a good friend of theshow on today.
His name is Rick Walter.
Rick is a software developerwho specializes in mobile
application development forApple platforms.
He's formerly incarcerated andpassionate about helping those
from disadvantaged backgrounds,particularly the formerly
(03:02):
incarcerated, become softwaredevelopers.
He also is part of underdogdevs, a nonprofit dedicated to
helping those from disadvantagedbackgrounds get hired as
developers.
Hello, thank you for joiningtechie personal finance bootcamp
.
I'm super excited to have myfriend, rick, on today.
Rick is a software developerwho specializes in mobile
(03:24):
application development forApple platforms.
He's formerly incarcerated andhe's passionate about helping
those from disadvantagedbackgrounds.
Particularly the formerlyincarcerated becomes software
developers.
He also is part of underdogdevs, a nonprofit dedicated to
helping those from disadvantagedbackgrounds get hired as
developers.
Hey, rick, thanks for coming onthe show today.
(03:46):
Hey, thanks for having me.
So I kind of gave you a littleintro.
We know a little bit about you.
Right now.
I want you to go back kind of10 years from now, so 10 years
into the past.
What was kind of your situation?
What was going on?
What were you thinking at thattime?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Let's see 10 years 2013, I was incarcerated, I was
getting out, and the end of 2016, I was preparing.
That was kind of a short timefor me, 13 to 16.
Consider, and I you know I hada 21 year sentence where I only
did 18 years of the 21.
So that really wasn't that longright?
(04:26):
Like I felt like I was.
You call it a short timer,right I'm like.
I got no time left, to only havethree years left.
Yeah, so I was preparing to getout, thinking about what I'm
going to do when I get out, howI'm going to make a living, and
I was doing that with my wife atthe time, amanda, and we were
basically.
That was I was excited,thinking about getting a life
(04:47):
when I get out and starting.
I've been locked up since I was18.
So it was yeah, it was.
You know, it was going to be aculture shock and I was excited
about things that I had missedand getting to do all the things
that you had dreamed.
You know, when you're in there,you like, as you can imagine,
like you're just you can't waitfor those days, right, like
(05:09):
you're like make sure all thethings you're going to do, and
and so, like it was coming to.
At that point in time, I feltlike I was damn near free, like
I felt like I was like about tostep out at that mark so this is
like a three year mark.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Holy smokes.
And so what is like softwareengineering and tech, kind of
even on the radar, where you'realready kind of doing that, some
of that career explorationthree years from from being
removed there?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
That was about the time actually probably was right
around that time I was justreading articles, I don't
remember, which is probably inthe economist or in, like let me
think what else I read.
Wall Street Journal is probablysomething I read, but I
remember reading about thedemand for software engineering
and the salaries and somewherethat it seemed to be a skill
that wasn't all.
(05:56):
A degree wasn't always required.
Yeah, and so it.
Yeah, I piqued my interest andI had Amanda sent me more and
more information on it and I'dhave her look stuff up online.
Like I'd get on the phone andjust be like, okay, go to this
website because I'd be readingfrom other things, and then we
go to that website.
Yeah, print it, send it, andthen I'd look down everything.
And then the next time I callI'd same thing.
(06:18):
I'm like, hey, go to thiswebsite, this other thing.
So eventually we got to thepoint where I was like, okay, I
like this thing, you know.
And she sent a couple books andI'm like I think I could do
this limit and I didn't have askill that you know, that came
in when I was a kid, so I wanted, I was like, I'll do this, I'll
throw myself into this and thenwe, we, I had a thumb drive
stuck in through a guy.
(06:39):
There's a guy that he's passedaway now, kyle McQuillan.
Never forget him.
Awesome man, and Kyle was justlike he knows.
If you're doing, you're tryingto like better yourself.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
If you're about that.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
He was about supporting you, like he didn't
give a damn, he didn't careabout rules as long as it was,
and so my wife got it to him andhe helped me get it in.
We put it on some old, we gotPython, python interpreter stuck
in and some YouTube videos andthere was already some other
videos on there.
I think we already had KhanAcademy in there Like a non.
(07:15):
It wasn't attached to theinternet, it was like standalone
type version, just some videos.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, because resources are extremely limited,
right?
So anyone don't have thatbackground, my brother.
This is how I started to kindof accustom to Walt, like some
stuff.
There's more stuff that maybepeople realize that you guys
have access to, but stilllimited in a lot of ways, and so
that's crazy getting that snuckin.
And yeah, what would havehappened if they were to cut,
(07:43):
like would it be major?
They just would have juststarted it, it would have been
the end of it basically.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
I mean, if he got caught he could have got a
felony.
He probably would have got acharge.
Yeah, he was like taking a bigrisk.
Yeah, yeah, he was taking a bigrisk.
It was looking back.
I'm like I'm surprised.
I was like it's kind of selfishto even ask someone to do that.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
But like.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I don't know.
I was in the moment and I waslike hey, this is going to be
awesome and you don't get caught.
Often you don't plan to getcaught, so I just you know this
was a foolproof plan.
I did this all thumb driveright and he brings in lots of
stuff that he's allowed to bringin.
Yeah because he was over someprograms.
So we brought that in.
Then I put it on the computers.
They were in the stroketreatment center.
They had old computers thatweren't really used for much, so
(08:25):
we put it on the computers andI started learning to program,
to code and so you don't have.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
You didn't have like the Google right.
So when you ran into stuff likehow, how did you kind of get
past some of those walls thattraditional people had run into?
And then they'd go and Google,they'd ask someone, they'd
YouTube it.
You don't.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I'm going to be honest with you, like you just
don't have any significant.
I didn't have any significantadvance like in my learning in
there, like it was just anintroduction, it's all it.
It's all it basically did wasgive me an exposure and maybe
like wet my appetite, maybethink that, like I can do this,
I was there, you really.
I mean, I thought I was.
It wasn't until I got out and Irecognized what you're talking
(09:07):
about.
Yeah, you Google constantly,constantly looking civil.
And it wasn't until then that Irealized like, huh, I really
didn't make any advancements inthere like that real
advancements.
You know I wasn't like I wasn'tlike a further along, really it
was just exposure and that wasfine.
And I think that's a big deal,you know, because if I didn't
have that I probably wouldn'thave had the interest when I got
(09:28):
out and the termination to likethrow myself into it.
But I mean I was writing littlemini programs like they were.
Just you know scripts likePython, stuff that you know.
You know the stuff you learnthe everyone learns when they
learn to code.
You know doing loop and do thisand print this and whatever.
So I was doing all that, whichwas cool, and it definitely did
make me want to do it more andgave me the confidence Okay,
(09:51):
this is it.
This isn't some arcane, this isit?
Only for wizards.
This is for like a regularperson that just pays attention.
You just put some time into it,you can learn it too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
And so what was that transition?
Then you had the intro, thesnooking contraband, so you
could start getting someexposure and learning that like
whoa, yeah, like I can do somemagic myself and yeah, you play
pretty strong, until you kind ofcame out the real world Like,
okay, that was like lighting amatch or something.
(10:23):
And there's a lot more that canbe done and a lot more you have
to figure out.
What was that next up?
You, you're out.
You actually got free reign now.
Now you do have access toGoogle, you have access to
YouTube and things like that.
What was that kind of next step?
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, so when I got out, I realized, obviously you
have to work, right Like, notnot shocking, right Like.
I realized, okay, damn, I'mgonna have to work to get by.
I moved in with Amanda, my wife, and she was just graduating
law school and was preparing forthe bar exam.
So full of the money we, yeah.
(10:59):
So we had a lot of stress andnot a lot of money.
We had a lot of money at thattime and so what I did is I
worked part-timeless in friendsdoing like sound set up.
I worked some doing like someseawalls, building prokina
seawalls.
I did that when I was young soI did that a little bit.
But what I did to like setmyself up so that I could spend
time studying was I enrolled inthe local community college and
(11:21):
they have like a associates inscience for programming or
whatever.
Nice and you know it's not goingto impress anyone, but it did
allow me to sign up for, like,the Pell Grant and allow me to
sign up for like a lot ofdifferent financial support, a
lot of loans too, Like I wastaking all the back loans and
but at least and I would take,like lots, you know, the full
loads or you get the most amountof the loans that were
(11:44):
available, and what that did wasjust allow me to study and not
have to work full, you know, 40,50 hours to get by.
It allowed us to like we stillweren't doing it.
You know we still were going indebt.
Obviously I was taking loans,but but it did allow me to focus
and so I was doing that inclass, learning programming
there, and then in my spare timeI was doing it all the time,
(12:04):
but I would.
I would read stuff to three inthe morning, like staring at the
screen, falling asleep.
Yeah, it was like I was excitedbecause I always said had all
this, this access to information, that I never had access to Up
until, you know, when I was ateenager?
When I was a teenager, I waswasn't on that right, like I was
on something different.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Even like what was the internet back then?
Like trying to remember like alot of the stuff is like
probably just already rollingout like around them where it
was like really robust, likelike it is today.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, it was nothing.
It was nothing.
Yeah, like nobody was, like itwasn't a big deal.
And so for me, when I got outand get which a year was in it,
it was empowering.
I was like, damn, this is, thisis really cool, this is fun,
and like the access to anyinformation I want was
empowering, yeah it was awesome.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
And so Community College you went to a bootcamp,
right?
Yes, Ultimately.
So what was it?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I was doing that at the same time, actually, because
the bootcamp was free.
Yeah, you kept your brutalthough.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
So yeah, you were.
You're sticking coursework liketraditional coursework at
Community College full schedulethere and then a bootcamp on top
of it.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, I mean, the Community College stuff wasn't
very rigorous, like it wasn'tthat hard.
I did transfer, after I got myAS, into a computer science
program, a state universitycomputer science program, and
which actually had some rigorouscoursework.
That got hard.
And that's when, like In fact,I was one of my teachers who
also was my friend of mine fromOrlando, one of the first people
(13:35):
I met, ben Golke.
You might know him from Twitter.
Ben was like you got to dropsomething.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
This is crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
You're like trying to work a little bit and you're
also doing a CS program andyou're doing like a full-time
boot camp.
So I stopped the CS, continuedwith the boot camp, started
working for the boot camp aslike a team, tl, whatever.
It's basically where you lead asmall group, you teach the
material, you don't teach it.
They have instructors,full-time instructors but then
(14:06):
they hire students that were alittle more advanced further in
the program to guide the rest ofthem and be there for them to
help and that kind of thing.
So I got started getting paidfor that.
Once I did that it was smoothsailing, because now you're
getting paid to learn.
So that was the goal.
So once I did that, we weregood.
(14:27):
I didn't go back to finish theCS program.
I almost completed it.
I still think about finishingat some point.
But, I finished it and I justskipped on with the boot camp.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah, at this point, right, how many years of
experience do you have now as asoftware developer, being paid,
If I?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
count that, like in my resume.
I count that which probablyshouldn't, because I wasn't like
building software for a company.
I was just teaching, I do havemy resume.
Anything that I was paid for Iput on my resume.
I even put like I was aprogramming tutor at the college
and it was unpaid.
But I even put that on early onbecause I had nothing else to
put on there.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, I'm not a career coach or anything like
that, but early on, if there'snothing else, and even now, if
there's enough room on it, surethrow it at the last thing.
just a show like you have withineven just what you have,
because you have to showsomething right.
You can't submit a blank like,oh I haven't done nothing,
applied nothing, give me a jobfor software engineering and
(15:28):
paid me a lot of money for it.
So I definitely think super,super normal to put those things
, because it's more than whatother people are doing too, that
are at that same stage more orless.
You definitely want to getcredit for that.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
But to answer your question, yeah that was about
four and a half years if I countthat.
Otherwise it was in 2020,january of 2020, basically like
right around the time I startedworking as a software engineer.
I was hired, so now we're goingon 2023 or whatever, but that
was actually being paid as asoftware engineer, whereas
before that was the tutor roleat the boot camp.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I was like nice one, yeah, even just kind of.
I'm sure it's going to hauntyou probably no matter what we
say or talk about, but at thispoint you've shown you can do
the job.
You have the nails and tools,the degree like really that's a
certification behind me.
I don't even know where mydegree is.
(16:22):
It's in one of these thingsbehind me but like I've never
looked at it, no one's everasked me for it, Like ever said,
yeah, once you show and youhave the actual work experience
of those, things matter way less.
What was it like navigating sofinish the boot camp, getting
paid to kind of finish that too,that is super sweet.
But what was it like finding ajob after that with having a
(16:47):
background?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
It didn't come up as much as I thought, mainly
because, I mean, it did come upwhen people knew me, but it
didn't come up as much as Ithought because it happened so
long ago that it doesn't comeback in my background checks.
So like you could look me up onFlorida Department of
Corrections.
Yeah, I've looked my name up,but you can look up any in
Florida and so you can seereleased inmates.
(17:09):
Look me up, see my charges andyou can see whatever.
But it wasn't the same kind ofproblem Now.
When I the first time I did getI, it was a discussion.
They even discussed it with therest of the people that worked
there.
Yeah, because it was on sitecompany.
They basically asked everyonelike, hey, are you okay with him
(17:30):
being here?
Everybody was fine.
Yeah, they're like, yeah, I waslucky, I was very lucky, though
it wasn't like anything I did.
It was my friend.
One of my friend I grew up with, his wife worked there, and so
she basically vouched for me.
Let's get him an interview.
You know, and like my husbanddoing growing up, he has a set
of circumstances that, whenexplained, will make you kind of
(17:51):
be a little more, a little lessjudgmental of like the charge.
I mean it still was bad, right,like I still make some terrible
choices, but it's it's.
It's different when you hear itin context.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I guess most things are right, but especially with
my situation, there's, there'sblack and white, but nothing
really ever is truly black andred, some version of gray hairs.
I didn't get into that muchtrouble, but there's still even
things like well, yeah, thingscould have went the wrong way
with me just being not doingsmart stuff and and that could
put me in a situation that'sactually happened to my brother
(18:25):
where, yep, not the smartest wayof doing stuff If they would
have avoided that, even with allthe other stupid stuff that has
been done, like a lot of us area small, small step away from
accidentally doing something ordoing something that we wish to
take back.
And, yeah, there's there'srules and laws and once you
cross those things and thatbecomes a situation.
(18:47):
But, yeah, a lot, of, a lot ofgreat area and I'm sure a lot of
people listen here like yep,never got in trouble but easily
couldn't for something right Atsome point it would have been
something minimal, but yoursobviously was a bigger deal.
I spent a lot of time, but thatalso means that the fact that
you put it into work to makethis huge, huge leap into our
(19:08):
career shows a lot of growth,and so I'm sure that went into
it too right.
So it's not only thecircumstances of that situation,
but what have you done since?
How have you changed?
And between 18 and and how oldyou are now like, we're so
different.
Yeah, so different, so different.
So yeah, that's crazy, itdidn't come up until then, but
(19:32):
then you had to kind of that inand that helps having a network
right.
Just having having people thatwill vouch for you, whether
whether you have a background ornot like that's what leads the
most people getting jobs thesedays, especially with with the
job market being a lot tighter.
Tell me a little bit about thenonprofit that you're a part of,
and this could be like a littlesales thing.
I actually asked you to recordsomething.
(19:54):
We could do that right now.
So, yeah, give me, give me alittle bit of information about
underdog devs.
Underdog.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Devs is a non-profit that can help them from
incarcerated or from lowersocioeconomic background to
become a software engineer.
We make sure that money goesdirectly to expand access to
people who maybe wouldn't getaccess.
Once you're part of UnderdogDevs, then you have the ability
to sign up for Project Underdog.
That's where you get your billspaid for four months, surround
(20:21):
you with mentors, you get pairprogramming all week and we try
to get you to a point whereyou're not having to work.
You can focus on studying.
If you want to support us, wehave lots of different ways
volunteering through hardware,old computers or financially.
We have a website,underdogdevsorg.
You can reach out through there.
Underdog Devs is a non-profitthat I've been a part of.
I started it and I think rightaround when I got my job in 2020
(20:43):
, maybe before that, maybe theend of 19, I don't remember when
I started it.
When I got hired, I made a postabout it and a lot of people
reached out wanting to know howI got hired, and they've been
felons.
I told them I would help them.
We all got on just basically atext group chat.
I would give advice, we wouldtalk, we would have meetings.
(21:06):
It was just a group of aboutfive people.
One of them actually ended upstill in Underdog Devs actually,
two of them are.
We would hang out the fellowwas.
It was like I didn't think Ihad any secret sauce to get
anyone hired, but I would givethem my opinions and here's what
worked for me, or whatever.
I'm more opinionated now thatI've been around and seen how
(21:28):
people get hired and I'veactually done it.
But at the time I was like,yeah, I can try to help.
What I think will work.
From there I realized the bigdeal is who you know.
Like you mentioned, it's yournetwork, it's directing.
Relationship is hugelyimportant.
Obviously, you have to have theskill.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
If you have no skill.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
there are people going to know, but once you get
to a base level skill, it's whoyou know to get the interview.
People know who they want onteams.
They already have guys in mindor girls in mind and they just
know whatever.
You got to build relationshipsat least.
How do you build relationships?
That's where they came into.
It was basically get aroundpeople, interact with people.
(22:11):
I don't care where thesesoftware engineers are, Get
around them, talk to them, hangout with them, go to meetups, go
to whatever.
What I realized was with mygroup of people that I was
talking to was they didn't havecontacts like that.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Just like I did when I got out.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I didn't know when I first got out.
I eventually found out that myfriend's wife worked at a place
that actually hired softwareengineers, but before that I had
no idea.
I didn't know anybody.
I had literally just had tobuild my network on Twitter,
which is what I did With them.
I was like, well, I alreadyhave a network, why don't we
just use them?
(22:45):
We go out and message peoplejust to see if they would help.
I'm like, hey, I got to go meetpeople, would you like to help?
And so many people were likeyeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'm basically asking all thepeople who know way more than me
, who are way more connectedthan me, basically people that
can help them more than I canhelp.
It blew up.
(23:07):
We had a meeting at Big NerdRanch.
Big Nerd Ranch is a digitalconsultancy.
We built apps and websites forpeople and different contracts
and stuff.
Actually, I ended up workingfor them later.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
But at this time.
That's why it means a bell forme, I think, because I either
saw when you guys were meetingup there at one point way back
when, or, yeah, I just saw thatyou used to work there.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Well, that's when they we had a big meeting and a
ton of them.
I had messaged them and theywere like yeah, we'd love to
help you with start this thing.
And somebody there mentionedthey're like why don't you start
a Slack and start a group outof it so that everyone can
communicate?
So we did that, we started the.
Slack and in the Slack then wewere like, hey, why don't we
come up with a name and actuallyturn it into an organization?
(23:51):
And it kind of sprung from that.
People like Dan Morse, BenGolke, Jessica McKellar, they
kind of turned it into somethingbigger and, yeah, it kind of
just blew up from there.
We did really early, we did aNot a conference, I wouldn't
call it a conference, but it waslots of talks by self-engineers
, particularly in the Applespace, Apple ecosystem, using
(24:13):
the Swift programming language,and we asked people that were
like and some of them are inother spaces, people like
Natterdabbit or even someonelike Chris Latina, for example.
He came and he had a talk.
He literally created Swift.
We had all these awesome people.
I was just randomly messagingand thinking they're not going
(24:35):
to respond to nobody, but theydid, like a lot of them are just
cool people and they just wantto come up.
So it kind of helped us.
It buoyed and got us a littlemore exposure than it would have
.
That and on top of that withJessica Jessica mission of hers
already Jessica McKellar and shetook it on as her baby and she
(24:56):
added some legitimacy to itearly on.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
And so, yeah, I think a lot of the success is due to
that, due to her coming on anddue to people saying yes early
on for those talks, because itwas a whole month of we call it
a spring into Swift.
It was a whole month of likeApril or something, whatever it
was, and so that attracted a lotof people and we got a lot of
exposure.
It kind of blew up from there.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That's awesome ones.
It just speaks exactly to whatwe've been mentioning in the
last few minutes here, likenetwork, community relationship.
Yeah, you said, connect topeople that are going to help
them actually more in your way,Because at that point you're
like months into it, even only acouple of years into it.
But yeah, all these kind of bighitters and the reason why
(25:43):
people are happy to help isbecause you weren't saying help
me like help myself.
You're like I want to helppeople.
I don't know how I'm not goingto be able to help in the same
way, and so it's because youweren't asking for something for
yourself and it made it reallyeasy to be like man.
This guy's sacrificing his timeand energy to help other people
when he's not even like, he'sstill like trying to figure out
(26:06):
his own stuff and getestablished in his career.
So I'm sure that just inspireda lot of people to be like
whether or not it was usedspecifically, but or just kind
of like your story that theyjust like man, let's, let's get
this ball rolling here.
Woods has been the kind ofbiggest benefit that you've seen
.
Being a part of underdog debtis like what.
(26:27):
You didn't start it to helpyourself, but it what's been the
biggest impact to you.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Oh, it's been hugely impactful In a way that never
suspected.
I never in a million yearswould have thought that the
thing was going to help me with,like give me just some amazing
contacts, you know.
Like it's given me some amazing, allowing me to meet people I
wouldn't have met, allowing meto be like obviously everyone
likes helping people, you know,changing people's lives or you
(26:55):
know, if you can be a part ofthat, most people like that, you
know.
So like that, obviously,without you know that's.
I guess what I'm saying is likethat's obvious, that that part
was has been rewarding, but evenmore than that was like
personally it's been superhelpful because there's been a
couple of events where we'rerelied on with the community and
(27:16):
things like getting a job, forexample.
I mean like I've got lots offriends that have like they'll
refer me.
You know, if I ask they'regonna refer me anywhere.
You know, like whether it beFacebook or wherever, I probably
should put in some time to geton lead code so they can get a
job.
I should make the jump at somepoint because I have the ability
to get these referrals, becauseyou know friends I've met there
(27:37):
and so I wouldn't have met allthese people?
Had we not, all you know, cometogether to try to build this
thing?
And then although this isn'tmad and I didn't do it on
purpose when my wife wasdiagnosed with cancer, we were
having to stay in hotelsconstantly.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And it was rough.
It was like financially wasreally rough on us At that point
.
She quit working.
She wasn't able, you know,which was fine.
I didn't want her to have towork.
It was stressful, you know, shewas working for a firm that was
very stressful, so she walkedaway from that.
But I was in, we were infinancial problems and so my
brother ran and go fund me, yeah, and I shared it and like there
(28:13):
was, I want to say, $60,000,raised a lot of money, and like
90% of it were people fromTwitter and underdog devs.
It was wild.
Like 90% they shared it ontheir Facebook, they shared it
with my brother and my wifeshared it and all kinds of other
areas, and it was like nearlyeveryone was people, you know.
(28:35):
You know, like it was just likewow, I didn't realize like what
an awesome.
I mean I knew it was awesomeNetwork and I knew these.
A lot of these people areawesome and they help a lot, but
I didn't realize it was likethat cool.
You know, yeah, they raised alot of money and I made a
constantly say that too, shewould look at, she'd read, she'd
go another one of your people,cause she'd know if she didn't
know him.
(28:55):
It had to be one of my peopleyeah.
So I would look, and usually itwas someone I knew from Twitter
or underdog devs.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
That's amazing.
I just got goosebumps from him,from you, saying that it's
super, super easy A reflectionof you and what people think of
you and Amanda.
So, yeah, that's not like likelike people were just doing it
for for no reasons, like they,they know who you are, they know
(29:22):
how important the situation was, everything you guys were going
through, and obviously therewas only so much people could do
to help.
And so if that was one way theycan just try to make it a
little bit more joyful for youguys to be able to never get the
hotel stay and all of that,yeah, definitely, definitely
feel for for you guys andeverything going back 10 years.
(29:46):
So we were talking about goingback 10 years and what you were
thinking.
But if you had to go, like younow, you time travel on, you say
, hey, hey, young Rick, youngerRick, still young, what kind of
things would you kind of imparton a younger version of yourself
?
Speaker 1 (30:05):
As far as like, like what to look forward to, or like
because I'm not really sure off, I'm not sure what I would take
back with me other than youknow.
You know it probably would belike, because what dominates my
mind whenever anyone saysanything like that is like
relational stuff, because youknow my wife passed.
So, like stuff like that, likehey, spend time with her, yeah,
(30:29):
success will come, success isgoing to happen.
But use your time wisely, don'tgrind.
You know, all day, every dayand I did that, you know like
she'd be in the bed sleeping andI'd be in there reading and
studying and coding and liketrying to try to get myself
together because, like I hadnever used a smartphone at that
time, when I got out, I had gota little little taste of
(30:50):
programming, but it was in avery stale.
You know, it wasn't like I hadnever used a smartphone, I was
like technologically illiterate.
So, for me to get to the pointwhere I could build apps and get
paid to build apps.
It took a lot of a lot of grindand tenacity and but I would
probably say something like, hey, ease up a little bit, you know
, because I didn't know I wasgoing to lose her, you know what
(31:11):
I mean.
So it would probably besomething like that.
But as far as like gettingahead, I think I just do the
same thing you know, like dowhat you can to work, work, but
also get to the point whereyou're getting paid to learn.
I would do that same thingagain build relationships.
I like people.
So like that came naturally forme.
I'm better at that than I amprogramming.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Which is a way better talent and skill to have for
sure.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, well, if you like, because I like people, so
you know, going to meetups andstuff was good.
I might focus a little more ona different subject matter now,
but I'm sure everyone says thisright, like when you see
something blow up, you're like Ijust learned that, Like I would
focus a little more on machinelearning, maybe go a little
further in schooling higherorder maths and stuff and try to
like so that I could have,because I just feel like that's
(31:59):
the future.
There's a lot of.
I just think it's going to beinteresting future and I would
probably I'm kind of pigeonholednow into what I do Not a bad
thing, right, like I love, love,how things turned out.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Yeah, what, when you get an edge, it means that
you're at what you do in an LBor you find something for those
roles specifically.
But yeah, it's.
It's hard to say, right,there's so many hot things that
seems like every couple months Iwas like, well, is it really
going to be like the next thing,or is that going to be where
all, like all not all, but allthe crypto space, all all of the
(32:36):
entity stuff, those things haveblown up and so people that
poured everything into thoseprobably not like at the time,
right, they felt like, oh, thisis the next big thing.
They'll probably still be therein the room for someone who's
not probably at the level thatthere were Now.
It's AI Probably makes sensethat this will actually be
around a little bit longer, moresustainable, that people have
(32:59):
been working on AI and trying tofigure that out for so long.
So, yeah, maybe, maybe thatmakes more sense.
But it's hard in those momentsto know what truly is going to
be the next thing and, right,what?
I don't do this too often, but,yeah, what?
What do you kind of envisionfor for your future, like you
see yourself pivoting at somepoint down the road five, 10
(33:21):
years into the future?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I've actually been going through that lately,
wondering, like you know, am Igoing to continue down the
individual contributor as aprogrammer or with back to like
my white pass it's?
It made it kind of hard toconcentrate lately over the last
like four or five months and sofour months, and so it's I've
questioned whether or not, likedo I want to do this Right,
because it takes a lot ofconcentration.
(33:44):
Programming takes a lot of likefocus.
It's not overly complicated butit does take a lot of
concentration.
And so there are times whereI'm like I really would like
some low, like light mental workor easier, shallower stuff
right now would be nice.
And so it's made me considerlike do I want to keep doing
this you know what I mean whenit takes like a mental, like
that much in mental effort, ordo I want to move into something
(34:05):
different?
And one thing that's come upthey also kind of intersects
with other other goals I have asa company like started company,
a company that would benefitunderdog devs and help pay for
whether they rely on donationsfor like project underdog and
for the stipends, rather thanthat that started company like a
B Corp dedicated to a certainpercentage that goes back to
(34:28):
underdog devs.
Yeah, and that way just run thecompany you know like.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Run the company and from there try to fund underdog
devs through that, that'sexciting and so speaking of that
is perfect way to kind of rampup the episode.
How can people support underdogdevs?
So they heard your story, theyheard about underdog devs.
If people are inspired to kindof contribute and give back,
(34:54):
what ways can they do that?
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yeah, so we have a website, underdogdevsorg.
You can reach out through there.
We have PayPal or you can justwire us money.
We have our bank informationthere, so you can do that.
We also not just financially,but if you want to support us
through like hardware orcomputers, you know, reach out
to me.
I'm trying to think of the bestway.
You can go to Twitter at rwlexor you can email rick at
(35:19):
underdogdevsorg.
So we're always looking forhardware and mentors.
Of course, you know, if you'rea software engineer, you want to
help mentor and you want toguide and help somebody, help
change somebody's life, reachout.
And if you some of the neat,obviously they can reach out.
Someone's formerly incarceratedor from lower socioeconomic
background and who wants tobecome a software engineer, yeah
(35:39):
, reach out really anyway, To medirectly on Twitter or to the
website underdogdevsorg.
You can sign up to a mentor ormentee.
So, yeah, lots of differentways volunteering hardware or,
you know, financially you wantto sponsor.
And just to be clear, none ofthe money goes to any of us that
run it.
We don't take salaries.
We don't take a dime.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Yeah, you guys have a price for the mentees, which is
is it?
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah, we make sure the money goes directly to make
to expand access to people whomaybe wouldn't get access and
we're talking not everyone inthere, but the people that once.
Once you're part of underdogdevs, then you have the ability
to sign up for project underdog.
That's where you get your billspaid for four months.
Surround you with mentors, youget pair programming all week
(36:26):
and we try to get you to a pointwhere you're not having to work
.
You can focus on studying.
All right, just like we talkedabout in the beginning get to
the point where you, just whereyou can just study, you know
like you can learn and practice.
So yeah, none of the money goesto any of us.
We don't take salaries, it allgoes to the mentees stipends.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Awesome.
Well, that's amazing.
I'm so thankful that we willfind time to hand you on today.
Anything else before we jumpoff and end today's episode, no,
just want to thank you forbeing so cool and supportive.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
You've, like, you know, I've known you for a while
on social, through Twitter, andfollowed you for a while and
that's super awesome.
Man, like appreciate everythingyou've done.
I'm sure a ton of people don'tknow like you've donated, not
for anyone else's interest, butyou just just for us.
Just, you know, not to not totry to like be known.
You're doing it on the.
You know you did it on theslide.
I don't even know it, you know,and it was kind of cool.
(37:15):
We really appreciate you, man.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah Well, I appreciate everything you're
doing.
I come from a background ofbeing a minority in a space
where there's not manyminorities or people that look
like me, and so I can onlyimagine it has to be pretty
similar, right, having a uniquebackground like yours and and
there's a lot of people thatneed you kind of as that beacon.
And that's really what you werein those early days.
(37:38):
Like you said, you weren'tadding a ton of benefits as far
as like given dropping gems leftand right early on, but it was
like you.
You were a beacon of hope andthat's all people need to kind
of take those first couple ofsteps and moving that motion.
And yeah, you, you've, you'veexperienced, you've lived the
experience of life all duringlife, changing kind of
(37:58):
opportunities, and so super gladthat we were able to meet in
the first place way back when,have a couple of opportunities
that, have conversations in themeantime and then kind of summon
it up today.
This one's going to be the lasttime we talk, but up until this
point it's it's really amazingto you to know you and to kind
of see the impact that you'renot only making for your family
and kind of improving yourself,but the impact you're making on
(38:19):
others.
It's super inspiring.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Thank you, man, I really appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Thank you so much for listening to Techie Personal
Finance Bootcamp.
You can find show notes byvisiting and local up financial
planningcom and finding thepodcast page.
You'll also be able to findstrategy guides, videos and
cheat sheets to help you takeyour financial confidence to the
next level.
If you feel this episode hasadded a ton of value for you,
please rate and share this withfriends and colleagues.
I'll catch you next time onTechie Personal Finance Bootcamp
(38:49):
.
I had never used a smartphone.
At that time when I got out Ihad got a little little taste of
programming, but it was in avery stale.
You know, it wasn't like I hadnever used a smartphone, I was
like technologically illiterate.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is Techie Personal Finance Bootcamp, where
I help tech professionals intheir 20s and 30s balance a
great life today withoutsacrificing their future
possibilities.
I'm your host.
Lucas Casaris, certifiedFinancial Planner and Founder of
Level Up Financial Planning,where I help educate, coach and
build strategies with my clientsto help them take their
financial competence to the nextlevel.
Orlando Gomez and you can catchhim in Season 3, episode 4 on
(00:51):
how he Broke and Attack byBridgina Jingle.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Hello, before I start this episode off.
I just have a quickannouncement.
I haven't done this in a fewyears and I'm actually launching
a registration for an end ofyour tax planning workshop
series to help you control andreduce your taxes prior to the
end of the year.
This will be three workshopsstarting in November, and we'll
be tackling understanding yourtaxes, learn about retirement
(01:14):
accounts and the secret backdoorROS that a lot of my tech
clients are able to use.
Sometimes they can do megabackdoor ROS inside your 401k.
Also, if you had beenpluristocked, we'll cover tech
strategies on how to sell andwhat the impacts of receiving
those are, especially if you'renot familiar with them.
These will be super helpful asyou navigate your career.
(01:35):
And finally, we will betackling charitable contribution
strategies, which is superrelevant.
I'm going to have a handful ofnonprofit guests on from the
Collab Lab, underdog Devs, techby Choice and the Kapoor Center.
So I'm excited for all of thoseinterviews and kind of all the
insights you'll see behind thescenes as far as what it takes
(01:57):
to be a part of an nonprofit,how you can help out and
contribute, and you'll besurprised.
It's not all just about money.
You can give back in other waysand so I hope you enjoy these
next few episodes and, if you'reinterested in signing up,
definitely register beforeprices go up.
Right now it's $30 for allthree workshops and all the
proceeds go to nonprofits, sonot trying to make money on this
(02:20):
, but it's a cool opportunityfor me to educate folks and make
sure that you're more informedas far as how taxes work,
because I know that sometimesit's like a mystery as far as
how taxes come out when you fileyour taxes, and so I'll
actually walk you through allthat.
The link will be in the shownotes.
You can find out moreinformation and reserve your
spot before prices increase onOctober 6.
Hope you can join us.
(02:41):
Hello, thank you for joining meand techie personal finance
bootcamp.
I'm excited.
I have a good friend of theshow on today.
His name is Rick Walter.
Rick is a software developerwho specializes in mobile
application development forApple platforms.
He's formerly incarcerated andpassionate about helping those
from disadvantaged backgrounds,particularly the formerly
(03:02):
incarcerated, become softwaredevelopers.
He also is part of underdogdevs, a nonprofit dedicated to
helping those from disadvantagedbackgrounds get hired as
developers.
Hello, thank you for joiningtechie personal finance bootcamp
.
I'm super excited to have myfriend, rick, on today.
Rick is a software developerwho specializes in mobile
(03:24):
application development forApple platforms.
He's formerly incarcerated andhe's passionate about helping
those from disadvantagedbackgrounds.
Particularly the formerlyincarcerated becomes software
developers.
He also is part of underdogdevs, a nonprofit dedicated to
helping those from disadvantagedbackgrounds get hired as
developers.
Hey, rick, thanks for coming onthe show today.
(03:46):
Hey, thanks for having me.
So I kind of gave you a littleintro.
We know a little bit about you.
Right now.
I want you to go back kind of10 years from now, so 10 years
into the past.
What was kind of your situation?
What was going on?
What were you thinking at thattime?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Let's see 10 years 2013, I was incarcerated, I was
getting out, and the end of 2016, I was preparing.
That was kind of a short timefor me, 13 to 16.
Consider, and I you know I hada 21 year sentence where I only
did 18 years of the 21.
So that really wasn't that longright?
(04:26):
Like I felt like I was.
You call it a short timer,right I'm like.
I got no time left, to only havethree years left.
Yeah, so I was preparing to getout, thinking about what I'm
going to do when I get out, howI'm going to make a living, and
I was doing that with my wife atthe time, amanda, and we were
basically.
That was I was excited,thinking about getting a life
(04:47):
when I get out and starting.
I've been locked up since I was18.
So it was yeah, it was.
You know, it was going to be aculture shock and I was excited
about things that I had missedand getting to do all the things
that you had dreamed.
You know, when you're in there,you like, as you can imagine,
like you're just you can't waitfor those days, right, like
(05:09):
you're like make sure all thethings you're going to do, and
and so, like it was coming to.
At that point in time, I feltlike I was damn near free, like
I felt like I was like about tostep out at that mark so this is
like a three year mark.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Holy smokes.
And so what is like softwareengineering and tech, kind of
even on the radar, where you'realready kind of doing that, some
of that career explorationthree years from from being
removed there?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
That was about the time actually probably was right
around that time I was justreading articles, I don't
remember, which is probably inthe economist or in, like let me
think what else I read.
Wall Street Journal is probablysomething I read, but I
remember reading about thedemand for software engineering
and the salaries and somewherethat it seemed to be a skill
that wasn't all.
(05:56):
A degree wasn't always required.
Yeah, and so it.
Yeah, I piqued my interest andI had Amanda sent me more and
more information on it and I'dhave her look stuff up online.
Like I'd get on the phone andjust be like, okay, go to this
website because I'd be readingfrom other things, and then we
go to that website.
Yeah, print it, send it, andthen I'd look down everything.
And then the next time I callI'd same thing.
(06:18):
I'm like, hey, go to thiswebsite, this other thing.
So eventually we got to thepoint where I was like, okay, I
like this thing, you know.
And she sent a couple books andI'm like I think I could do
this limit and I didn't have askill that you know, that came
in when I was a kid, so I wanted, I was like, I'll do this, I'll
throw myself into this and thenwe, we, I had a thumb drive
stuck in through a guy.
(06:39):
There's a guy that he's passedaway now, kyle McQuillan.
Never forget him.
Awesome man, and Kyle was justlike he knows.
If you're doing, you're tryingto like better yourself.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
If you're about that.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
He was about supporting you, like he didn't
give a damn, he didn't careabout rules as long as it was,
and so my wife got it to him andhe helped me get it in.
We put it on some old, we gotPython, python interpreter stuck
in and some YouTube videos andthere was already some other
videos on there.
I think we already had KhanAcademy in there Like a non.
(07:15):
It wasn't attached to theinternet, it was like standalone
type version, just some videos.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, because resources are extremely limited,
right?
So anyone don't have thatbackground, my brother.
This is how I started to kindof accustom to Walt, like some
stuff.
There's more stuff that maybepeople realize that you guys
have access to, but stilllimited in a lot of ways, and so
that's crazy getting that snuckin.
And yeah, what would havehappened if they were to cut,
(07:43):
like would it be major?
They just would have juststarted it, it would have been
the end of it basically.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
I mean, if he got caught he could have got a
felony.
He probably would have got acharge.
Yeah, he was like taking a bigrisk.
Yeah, yeah, he was taking a bigrisk.
It was looking back.
I'm like I'm surprised.
I was like it's kind of selfishto even ask someone to do that.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
But like.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
I don't know.
I was in the moment and I waslike hey, this is going to be
awesome and you don't get caught.
Often you don't plan to getcaught, so I just you know this
was a foolproof plan.
I did this all thumb driveright and he brings in lots of
stuff that he's allowed to bringin.
Yeah because he was over someprograms.
So we brought that in.
Then I put it on the computers.
They were in the stroketreatment center.
They had old computers thatweren't really used for much, so
(08:25):
we put it on the computers andI started learning to program,
to code and so you don't have.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
You didn't have like the Google right.
So when you ran into stuff likehow, how did you kind of get
past some of those walls thattraditional people had run into?
And then they'd go and Google,they'd ask someone, they'd
YouTube it.
You don't.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I'm going to be honest with you, like you just
don't have any significant.
I didn't have any significantadvance like in my learning in
there, like it was just anintroduction, it's all it.
It's all it basically did wasgive me an exposure and maybe
like wet my appetite, maybethink that, like I can do this,
I was there, you really.
I mean, I thought I was.
It wasn't until I got out and Irecognized what you're talking
(09:07):
about.
Yeah, you Google constantly,constantly looking civil.
And it wasn't until then that Irealized like, huh, I really
didn't make any advancements inthere like that real
advancements.
You know I wasn't like I wasn'tlike a further along, really it
was just exposure and that wasfine.
And I think that's a big deal,you know, because if I didn't
have that I probably wouldn'thave had the interest when I got
(09:28):
out and the termination to likethrow myself into it.
But I mean I was writing littlemini programs like they were.
Just you know scripts likePython, stuff that you know.
You know the stuff you learnthe everyone learns when they
learn to code.
You know doing loop and do thisand print this and whatever.
So I was doing all that, whichwas cool, and it definitely did
make me want to do it more andgave me the confidence Okay,
(09:51):
this is it.
This isn't some arcane, this isit?
Only for wizards.
This is for like a regularperson that just pays attention.
You just put some time into it,you can learn it too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
And so what was that transition?
Then you had the intro, thesnooking contraband, so you
could start getting someexposure and learning that like
whoa, yeah, like I can do somemagic myself and yeah, you play
pretty strong, until you kind ofcame out the real world Like,
okay, that was like lighting amatch or something.
(10:23):
And there's a lot more that canbe done and a lot more you have
to figure out.
What was that next up?
You, you're out.
You actually got free reign now.
Now you do have access toGoogle, you have access to
YouTube and things like that.
What was that kind of next step?
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Yeah, so when I got out, I realized, obviously you
have to work, right Like, notnot shocking, right Like.
I realized, okay, damn, I'mgonna have to work to get by.
I moved in with Amanda, my wife, and she was just graduating
law school and was preparing forthe bar exam.
So full of the money we, yeah.
(10:59):
So we had a lot of stress andnot a lot of money.
We had a lot of money at thattime and so what I did is I
worked part-timeless in friendsdoing like sound set up.
I worked some doing like someseawalls, building prokina
seawalls.
I did that when I was young soI did that a little bit.
But what I did to like setmyself up so that I could spend
time studying was I enrolled inthe local community college and
(11:21):
they have like a associates inscience for programming or
whatever.
Nice and you know it's not goingto impress anyone, but it did
allow me to sign up for, like,the Pell Grant and allow me to
sign up for like a lot ofdifferent financial support, a
lot of loans too, Like I wastaking all the back loans and
but at least and I would take,like lots, you know, the full
loads or you get the most amountof the loans that were
(11:44):
available, and what that did wasjust allow me to study and not
have to work full, you know, 40,50 hours to get by.
It allowed us to like we stillweren't doing it.
You know we still were going indebt.
Obviously I was taking loans,but but it did allow me to focus
and so I was doing that inclass, learning programming
there, and then in my spare timeI was doing it all the time,
(12:04):
but I would.
I would read stuff to three inthe morning, like staring at the
screen, falling asleep.
Yeah, it was like I was excitedbecause I always said had all
this, this access to information, that I never had access to Up
until, you know, when I was ateenager?
When I was a teenager, I waswasn't on that right, like I was
on something different.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Even like what was the internet back then?
Like trying to remember like alot of the stuff is like
probably just already rollingout like around them where it
was like really robust, likelike it is today.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Yeah, it was nothing.
It was nothing.
Yeah, like nobody was, like itwasn't a big deal.
And so for me, when I got outand get which a year was in it,
it was empowering.
I was like, damn, this is, thisis really cool, this is fun,
and like the access to anyinformation I want was
empowering, yeah it was awesome.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
And so Community College you went to a bootcamp,
right?
Yes, Ultimately.
So what was it?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
I was doing that at the same time, actually, because
the bootcamp was free.
Yeah, you kept your brutalthough.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
So yeah, you were.
You're sticking coursework liketraditional coursework at
Community College full schedulethere and then a bootcamp on top
of it.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yeah, I mean, the Community College stuff wasn't
very rigorous, like it wasn'tthat hard.
I did transfer, after I got myAS, into a computer science
program, a state universitycomputer science program, and
which actually had some rigorouscoursework.
That got hard.
And that's when, like In fact,I was one of my teachers who
also was my friend of mine fromOrlando, one of the first people
(13:35):
I met, ben Golke.
You might know him from Twitter.
Ben was like you got to dropsomething.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
This is crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
You're like trying to work a little bit and you're
also doing a CS program andyou're doing like a full-time
boot camp.
So I stopped the CS, continuedwith the boot camp, started
working for the boot camp aslike a team, tl, whatever.
It's basically where you lead asmall group, you teach the
material, you don't teach it.
They have instructors,full-time instructors but then
(14:06):
they hire students that were alittle more advanced further in
the program to guide the rest ofthem and be there for them to
help and that kind of thing.
So I got started getting paidfor that.
Once I did that it was smoothsailing, because now you're
getting paid to learn.
So that was the goal.
So once I did that, we weregood.
(14:27):
I didn't go back to finish theCS program.
I almost completed it.
I still think about finishingat some point.
But, I finished it and I justskipped on with the boot camp.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah, at this point, right, how many years of
experience do you have now as asoftware developer, being paid,
If I?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
count that, like in my resume.
I count that which probablyshouldn't, because I wasn't like
building software for a company.
I was just teaching, I do havemy resume.
Anything that I was paid for Iput on my resume.
I even put like I was aprogramming tutor at the college
and it was unpaid.
But I even put that on early onbecause I had nothing else to
put on there.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Yeah, I'm not a career coach or anything like
that, but early on, if there'snothing else, and even now, if
there's enough room on it, surethrow it at the last thing.
just a show like you have withineven just what you have,
because you have to showsomething right.
You can't submit a blank like,oh I haven't done nothing,
applied nothing, give me a jobfor software engineering and
(15:28):
paid me a lot of money for it.
So I definitely think super,super normal to put those things
, because it's more than whatother people are doing too, that
are at that same stage more orless.
You definitely want to getcredit for that.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
But to answer your question, yeah that was about
four and a half years if I countthat.
Otherwise it was in 2020,january of 2020, basically like
right around the time I startedworking as a software engineer.
I was hired, so now we're goingon 2023 or whatever, but that
was actually being paid as asoftware engineer, whereas
before that was the tutor roleat the boot camp.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
I was like nice one, yeah, even just kind of.
I'm sure it's going to hauntyou probably no matter what we
say or talk about, but at thispoint you've shown you can do
the job.
You have the nails and tools,the degree like really that's a
certification behind me.
I don't even know where mydegree is.
(16:22):
It's in one of these thingsbehind me but like I've never
looked at it, no one's everasked me for it, Like ever said,
yeah, once you show and youhave the actual work experience
of those, things matter way less.
What was it like navigating sofinish the boot camp, getting
paid to kind of finish that too,that is super sweet.
But what was it like finding ajob after that with having a
(16:47):
background?
Speaker 1 (16:49):
It didn't come up as much as I thought, mainly
because, I mean, it did come upwhen people knew me, but it
didn't come up as much as Ithought because it happened so
long ago that it doesn't comeback in my background checks.
So like you could look me up onFlorida Department of
Corrections.
Yeah, I've looked my name up,but you can look up any in
Florida and so you can seereleased inmates.
(17:09):
Look me up, see my charges andyou can see whatever.
But it wasn't the same kind ofproblem Now.
When I the first time I did getI, it was a discussion.
They even discussed it with therest of the people that worked
there.
Yeah, because it was on sitecompany.
They basically asked everyonelike, hey, are you okay with him
(17:30):
being here?
Everybody was fine.
Yeah, they're like, yeah, I waslucky, I was very lucky, though
it wasn't like anything I did.
It was my friend.
One of my friend I grew up with, his wife worked there, and so
she basically vouched for me.
Let's get him an interview.
You know, and like my husbanddoing growing up, he has a set
of circumstances that, whenexplained, will make you kind of
(17:51):
be a little more, a little lessjudgmental of like the charge.
I mean it still was bad, right,like I still make some terrible
choices, but it's it's.
It's different when you hear itin context.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
I guess most things are right, but especially with
my situation, there's, there'sblack and white, but nothing
really ever is truly black andred, some version of gray hairs.
I didn't get into that muchtrouble, but there's still even
things like well, yeah, thingscould have went the wrong way
with me just being not doingsmart stuff and and that could
put me in a situation that'sactually happened to my brother
(18:25):
where, yep, not the smartest wayof doing stuff If they would
have avoided that, even with allthe other stupid stuff that has
been done, like a lot of us area small, small step away from
accidentally doing something ordoing something that we wish to
take back.
And, yeah, there's there'srules and laws and once you
cross those things and thatbecomes a situation.
(18:47):
But, yeah, a lot, of, a lot ofgreat area and I'm sure a lot of
people listen here like yep,never got in trouble but easily
couldn't for something right Atsome point it would have been
something minimal, but yoursobviously was a bigger deal.
I spent a lot of time, but thatalso means that the fact that
you put it into work to makethis huge, huge leap into our
(19:08):
career shows a lot of growth,and so I'm sure that went into
it too right.
So it's not only thecircumstances of that situation,
but what have you done since?
How have you changed?
And between 18 and and how oldyou are now like, we're so
different.
Yeah, so different, so different.
So yeah, that's crazy, itdidn't come up until then, but
(19:32):
then you had to kind of that inand that helps having a network
right.
Just having having people thatwill vouch for you, whether
whether you have a background ornot like that's what leads the
most people getting jobs thesedays, especially with with the
job market being a lot tighter.
Tell me a little bit about thenonprofit that you're a part of,
and this could be like a littlesales thing.
I actually asked you to recordsomething.
(19:54):
We could do that right now.
So, yeah, give me, give me alittle bit of information about
underdog devs.
Underdog.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
Devs is a non-profit that can help them from
incarcerated or from lowersocioeconomic background to
become a software engineer.
We make sure that money goesdirectly to expand access to
people who maybe wouldn't getaccess.
Once you're part of UnderdogDevs, then you have the ability
to sign up for Project Underdog.
That's where you get your billspaid for four months, surround
(20:21):
you with mentors, you get pairprogramming all week and we try
to get you to a point whereyou're not having to work.
You can focus on studying.
If you want to support us, wehave lots of different ways
volunteering through hardware,old computers or financially.
We have a website,underdogdevsorg.
You can reach out through there.
Underdog Devs is a non-profitthat I've been a part of.
I started it and I think rightaround when I got my job in 2020
(20:43):
, maybe before that, maybe theend of 19, I don't remember when
I started it.
When I got hired, I made a postabout it and a lot of people
reached out wanting to know howI got hired, and they've been
felons.
I told them I would help them.
We all got on just basically atext group chat.
I would give advice, we wouldtalk, we would have meetings.
(21:06):
It was just a group of aboutfive people.
One of them actually ended upstill in Underdog Devs actually,
two of them are.
We would hang out the fellowwas.
It was like I didn't think Ihad any secret sauce to get
anyone hired, but I would givethem my opinions and here's what
worked for me, or whatever.
I'm more opinionated now thatI've been around and seen how
(21:28):
people get hired and I'veactually done it.
But at the time I was like,yeah, I can try to help.
What I think will work.
From there I realized the bigdeal is who you know.
Like you mentioned, it's yournetwork, it's directing.
Relationship is hugelyimportant.
Obviously, you have to have theskill.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
If you have no skill.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
there are people going to know, but once you get
to a base level skill, it's whoyou know to get the interview.
People know who they want onteams.
They already have guys in mindor girls in mind and they just
know whatever.
You got to build relationshipsat least.
How do you build relationships?
That's where they came into.
It was basically get aroundpeople, interact with people.
(22:11):
I don't care where thesesoftware engineers are, Get
around them, talk to them, hangout with them, go to meetups, go
to whatever.
What I realized was with mygroup of people that I was
talking to was they didn't havecontacts like that.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Just like I did when I got out.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I didn't know when I first got out.
I eventually found out that myfriend's wife worked at a place
that actually hired softwareengineers, but before that I had
no idea.
I didn't know anybody.
I had literally just had tobuild my network on Twitter,
which is what I did With them.
I was like, well, I alreadyhave a network, why don't we
just use them?
(22:45):
We go out and message peoplejust to see if they would help.
I'm like, hey, I got to go meetpeople, would you like to help?
And so many people were likeyeah, yeah, yeah.
So I'm basically asking all thepeople who know way more than me
, who are way more connectedthan me, basically people that
can help them more than I canhelp.
It blew up.
(23:07):
We had a meeting at Big NerdRanch.
Big Nerd Ranch is a digitalconsultancy.
We built apps and websites forpeople and different contracts
and stuff.
Actually, I ended up workingfor them later.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
But at this time.
That's why it means a bell forme, I think, because I either
saw when you guys were meetingup there at one point way back
when, or, yeah, I just saw thatyou used to work there.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Well, that's when they we had a big meeting and a
ton of them.
I had messaged them and theywere like yeah, we'd love to
help you with start this thing.
And somebody there mentionedthey're like why don't you start
a Slack and start a group outof it so that everyone can
communicate?
So we did that, we started the.
Slack and in the Slack then wewere like, hey, why don't we
come up with a name and actuallyturn it into an organization?
(23:51):
And it kind of sprung from that.
People like Dan Morse, BenGolke, Jessica McKellar, they
kind of turned it into somethingbigger and, yeah, it kind of
just blew up from there.
We did really early, we did aNot a conference, I wouldn't
call it a conference, but it waslots of talks by self-engineers
, particularly in the Applespace, Apple ecosystem, using
(24:13):
the Swift programming language,and we asked people that were
like and some of them are inother spaces, people like
Natterdabbit or even someonelike Chris Latina, for example.
He came and he had a talk.
He literally created Swift.
We had all these awesome people.
I was just randomly messagingand thinking they're not going
(24:35):
to respond to nobody, but theydid, like a lot of them are just
cool people and they just wantto come up.
So it kind of helped us.
It buoyed and got us a littlemore exposure than it would have
.
That and on top of that withJessica Jessica mission of hers
already Jessica McKellar and shetook it on as her baby and she
(24:56):
added some legitimacy to itearly on.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
And so, yeah, I think a lot of the success is due to
that, due to her coming on anddue to people saying yes early
on for those talks, because itwas a whole month of we call it
a spring into Swift.
It was a whole month of likeApril or something, whatever it
was, and so that attracted a lotof people and we got a lot of
exposure.
It kind of blew up from there.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That's awesome ones.
It just speaks exactly to whatwe've been mentioning in the
last few minutes here, likenetwork, community relationship.
Yeah, you said, connect topeople that are going to help
them actually more in your way,Because at that point you're
like months into it, even only acouple of years into it.
But yeah, all these kind of bighitters and the reason why
(25:43):
people are happy to help isbecause you weren't saying help
me like help myself.
You're like I want to helppeople.
I don't know how I'm not goingto be able to help in the same
way, and so it's because youweren't asking for something for
yourself and it made it reallyeasy to be like man.
This guy's sacrificing his timeand energy to help other people
when he's not even like, he'sstill like trying to figure out
(26:06):
his own stuff and getestablished in his career.
So I'm sure that just inspireda lot of people to be like
whether or not it was usedspecifically, but or just kind
of like your story that theyjust like man, let's, let's get
this ball rolling here.
Woods has been the kind ofbiggest benefit that you've seen
.
Being a part of underdog debtis like what.
(26:27):
You didn't start it to helpyourself, but it what's been the
biggest impact to you.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Oh, it's been hugely impactful In a way that never
suspected.
I never in a million yearswould have thought that the
thing was going to help me with,like give me just some amazing
contacts, you know.
Like it's given me some amazing, allowing me to meet people I
wouldn't have met, allowing meto be like obviously everyone
likes helping people, you know,changing people's lives or you
(26:55):
know, if you can be a part ofthat, most people like that, you
know.
So like that, obviously,without you know that's.
I guess what I'm saying is likethat's obvious, that that part
was has been rewarding, but evenmore than that was like
personally it's been superhelpful because there's been a
couple of events where we'rerelied on with the community and
(27:16):
things like getting a job, forexample.
I mean like I've got lots offriends that have like they'll
refer me.
You know, if I ask they'regonna refer me anywhere.
You know, like whether it beFacebook or wherever, I probably
should put in some time to geton lead code so they can get a
job.
I should make the jump at somepoint because I have the ability
to get these referrals, becauseyou know friends I've met there
(27:37):
and so I wouldn't have met allthese people?
Had we not, all you know, cometogether to try to build this
thing?
And then although this isn'tmad and I didn't do it on
purpose when my wife wasdiagnosed with cancer, we were
having to stay in hotelsconstantly.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
And it was rough.
It was like financially wasreally rough on us At that point
.
She quit working.
She wasn't able, you know,which was fine.
I didn't want her to have towork.
It was stressful, you know, shewas working for a firm that was
very stressful, so she walkedaway from that.
But I was in, we were infinancial problems and so my
brother ran and go fund me, yeah, and I shared it and like there
(28:13):
was, I want to say, $60,000,raised a lot of money, and like
90% of it were people fromTwitter and underdog devs.
It was wild.
Like 90% they shared it ontheir Facebook, they shared it
with my brother and my wifeshared it and all kinds of other
areas, and it was like nearlyeveryone was people, you know.
(28:35):
You know, like it was just likewow, I didn't realize like what
an awesome.
I mean I knew it was awesomeNetwork and I knew these.
A lot of these people areawesome and they help a lot, but
I didn't realize it was likethat cool.
You know, yeah, they raised alot of money and I made a
constantly say that too, shewould look at, she'd read, she'd
go another one of your people,cause she'd know if she didn't
know him.
(28:55):
It had to be one of my peopleyeah.
So I would look, and usually itwas someone I knew from Twitter
or underdog devs.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
That's amazing.
I just got goosebumps from him,from you, saying that it's
super, super easy A reflectionof you and what people think of
you and Amanda.
So, yeah, that's not like likelike people were just doing it
for for no reasons, like they,they know who you are, they know
(29:22):
how important the situation was, everything you guys were going
through, and obviously therewas only so much people could do
to help.
And so if that was one way theycan just try to make it a
little bit more joyful for youguys to be able to never get the
hotel stay and all of that,yeah, definitely, definitely
feel for for you guys andeverything going back 10 years.
(29:46):
So we were talking about goingback 10 years and what you were
thinking.
But if you had to go, like younow, you time travel on, you say
, hey, hey, young Rick, youngerRick, still young, what kind of
things would you kind of imparton a younger version of yourself
?
Speaker 1 (30:05):
As far as like, like what to look forward to, or like
because I'm not really sure off, I'm not sure what I would take
back with me other than youknow.
You know it probably would belike, because what dominates my
mind whenever anyone saysanything like that is like
relational stuff, because youknow my wife passed.
So, like stuff like that, likehey, spend time with her, yeah,
(30:29):
success will come, success isgoing to happen.
But use your time wisely, don'tgrind.
You know, all day, every dayand I did that, you know like
she'd be in the bed sleeping andI'd be in there reading and
studying and coding and liketrying to try to get myself
together because, like I hadnever used a smartphone at that
time, when I got out, I had gota little little taste of
(30:50):
programming, but it was in avery stale.
You know, it wasn't like I hadnever used a smartphone, I was
like technologically illiterate.
So, for me to get to the pointwhere I could build apps and get
paid to build apps.
It took a lot of a lot of grindand tenacity and but I would
probably say something like, hey, ease up a little bit, you know
, because I didn't know I wasgoing to lose her, you know what
(31:11):
I mean.
So it would probably besomething like that.
But as far as like gettingahead, I think I just do the
same thing you know, like dowhat you can to work, work, but
also get to the point whereyou're getting paid to learn.
I would do that same thingagain build relationships.
I like people.
So like that came naturally forme.
I'm better at that than I amprogramming.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Which is a way better talent and skill to have for
sure.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Yeah, well, if you like, because I like people, so
you know, going to meetups andstuff was good.
I might focus a little more ona different subject matter now,
but I'm sure everyone says thisright, like when you see
something blow up, you're like Ijust learned that, Like I would
focus a little more on machinelearning, maybe go a little
further in schooling higherorder maths and stuff and try to
like so that I could have,because I just feel like that's
(31:59):
the future.
There's a lot of.
I just think it's going to beinteresting future and I would
probably I'm kind of pigeonholednow into what I do Not a bad
thing, right, like I love, love,how things turned out.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Yeah, what, when you get an edge, it means that
you're at what you do in an LBor you find something for those
roles specifically.
But yeah, it's.
It's hard to say, right,there's so many hot things that
seems like every couple months Iwas like, well, is it really
going to be like the next thing,or is that going to be where
all, like all not all, but allthe crypto space, all all of the
(32:36):
entity stuff, those things haveblown up and so people that
poured everything into thoseprobably not like at the time,
right, they felt like, oh, thisis the next big thing.
They'll probably still be therein the room for someone who's
not probably at the level thatthere were Now.
It's AI Probably makes sensethat this will actually be
around a little bit longer, moresustainable, that people have
(32:59):
been working on AI and trying tofigure that out for so long.
So, yeah, maybe, maybe thatmakes more sense.
But it's hard in those momentsto know what truly is going to
be the next thing and, right,what?
I don't do this too often, but,yeah, what?
What do you kind of envisionfor for your future, like you
see yourself pivoting at somepoint down the road five, 10
(33:21):
years into the future?
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I've actually been going through that lately,
wondering, like you know, am Igoing to continue down the
individual contributor as aprogrammer or with back to like
my white pass it's?
It made it kind of hard toconcentrate lately over the last
like four or five months and sofour months, and so it's I've
questioned whether or not, likedo I want to do this Right,
because it takes a lot ofconcentration.
(33:44):
Programming takes a lot of likefocus.
It's not overly complicated butit does take a lot of
concentration.
And so there are times whereI'm like I really would like
some low, like light mental workor easier, shallower stuff
right now would be nice.
And so it's made me considerlike do I want to keep doing
this you know what I mean whenit takes like a mental, like
that much in mental effort, ordo I want to move into something
(34:05):
different?
And one thing that's come upthey also kind of intersects
with other other goals I have asa company like started company,
a company that would benefitunderdog devs and help pay for
whether they rely on donationsfor like project underdog and
for the stipends, rather thanthat that started company like a
B Corp dedicated to a certainpercentage that goes back to
(34:28):
underdog devs.
Yeah, and that way just run thecompany you know like.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
Run the company and from there try to fund underdog
devs through that, that'sexciting and so speaking of that
is perfect way to kind of rampup the episode.
How can people support underdogdevs?
So they heard your story, theyheard about underdog devs.
If people are inspired to kindof contribute and give back,
(34:54):
what ways can they do that?
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Yeah, so we have a website, underdogdevsorg.
You can reach out through there.
We have PayPal or you can justwire us money.
We have our bank informationthere, so you can do that.
We also not just financially,but if you want to support us
through like hardware orcomputers, you know, reach out
to me.
I'm trying to think of the bestway.
You can go to Twitter at rwlexor you can email rick at
(35:19):
underdogdevsorg.
So we're always looking forhardware and mentors.
Of course, you know, if you'rea software engineer, you want to
help mentor and you want toguide and help somebody, help
change somebody's life, reachout.
And if you some of the neat,obviously they can reach out.
Someone's formerly incarceratedor from lower socioeconomic
background and who wants tobecome a software engineer, yeah
(35:39):
, reach out really anyway, To medirectly on Twitter or to the
website underdogdevsorg.
You can sign up to a mentor ormentee.
So, yeah, lots of differentways volunteering hardware or,
you know, financially you wantto sponsor.
And just to be clear, none ofthe money goes to any of us that
run it.
We don't take salaries.
We don't take a dime.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Yeah, you guys have a price for the mentees, which is
is it?
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah, we make sure the money goes directly to make
to expand access to people whomaybe wouldn't get access and
we're talking not everyone inthere, but the people that once.
Once you're part of underdogdevs, then you have the ability
to sign up for project underdog.
That's where you get your billspaid for four months.
Surround you with mentors, youget pair programming all week
(36:26):
and we try to get you to a pointwhere you're not having to work
.
You can focus on studying.
All right, just like we talkedabout in the beginning get to
the point where you, just whereyou can just study, you know
like you can learn and practice.
So yeah, none of the money goesto any of us.
We don't take salaries, it allgoes to the mentees stipends.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Awesome.
Well, that's amazing.
I'm so thankful that we willfind time to hand you on today.
Anything else before we jumpoff and end today's episode, no,
just want to thank you forbeing so cool and supportive.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
You've, like, you know, I've known you for a while
on social, through Twitter, andfollowed you for a while and
that's super awesome.
Man, like appreciate everythingyou've done.
I'm sure a ton of people don'tknow like you've donated, not
for anyone else's interest, butyou just just for us.
Just, you know, not to not totry to like be known.
You're doing it on the.
You know you did it on theslide.
I don't even know it, you know,and it was kind of cool.
(37:15):
We really appreciate you, man.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah Well, I appreciate everything you're
doing.
I come from a background ofbeing a minority in a space
where there's not manyminorities or people that look
like me, and so I can onlyimagine it has to be pretty
similar, right, having a uniquebackground like yours and and
there's a lot of people thatneed you kind of as that beacon.
And that's really what you werein those early days.
(37:38):
Like you said, you weren'tadding a ton of benefits as far
as like given dropping gems leftand right early on, but it was
like you.
You were a beacon of hope andthat's all people need to kind
of take those first couple ofsteps and moving that motion.
And yeah, you, you've, you'veexperienced, you've lived the
experience of life all duringlife, changing kind of
(37:58):
opportunities, and so super gladthat we were able to meet in
the first place way back when,have a couple of opportunities
that, have conversations in themeantime and then kind of summon
it up today.
This one's going to be the lasttime we talk, but up until this
point it's it's really amazingto you to know you and to kind
of see the impact that you'renot only making for your family
and kind of improving yourself,but the impact you're making on
(38:19):
others.
It's super inspiring.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Thank you, man, I really appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Thank you so much for listening to Techie Personal
Finance Bootcamp.
You can find show notes byvisiting and local up financial
planningcom and finding thepodcast page.
You'll also be able to findstrategy guides, videos and
cheat sheets to help you takeyour financial confidence to the
next level.
If you feel this episode hasadded a ton of value for you,
please rate and share this withfriends and colleagues.
I'll catch you next time onTechie Personal Finance Bootcamp
(38:49):
.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!