June 28, 2024 • 17 mins
What happens when the very agency responsible for safeguarding government personnel data becomes the target of an unprecedented cyber attack? Join us on this riveting episode of Technology Tap as we unravel the intricacies of the infamous Office of Personnel Management (OPM) breach. I'm Professor JRod, guiding you through a special summer series episode where we dissect the 2013 cyber intrusion that compromised sensitive federal employee information. With former Navy personnel Michelle, Wesley, and Oksana shedding light on the timeline and implications, this episode offers a rare, personal glimpse into the far-reaching impact of such a breach.
Listen to Michelle recount her firsthand experience as a victim of the OPM breach and learn how hackers infiltrated the OPM's networks, remaining undetected for months. Discover the alarming vulnerabilities in governmental cybersecurity practices that led to the eventual resignation of OPM Director Katherine Archuleta. Through engaging conversations and detailed analysis, this episode emphasizes the critical need for proactive threat detection and robust data protection measures, making it an essential listen for anyone concerned with the security of personal information in our digital age.
If you want to help me with my research please e-mail me.
Professorjrod@gmail.com
If you want to join my question/answer zoom class e-mail me at
Professorjrod@gmail.com
Art By Sarah/Desmond
Music by Joakim Karud
Little chacha Productions
Juan Rodriguez can be reached at
TikTok @ProfessorJrod
ProfessorJRod@gmail.com
@Prof_JRod
Instagram ProfessorJRod
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Thank you and welcome to technology tap.
I'm professor j rod in thisepisode, our second episode of
our summer series.
Let's get into it.
All right, welcome back toTechnology Tap.
(01:00):
I'm Professor J-Rod.
For those of you who don't knowme'm, my name is professor j
rod and I am professor of cybersecurity, and I've been doing
this podcast I don't know almostgoing on four years and for
this summer.
Usually I don't really do a lotduring the summer as far as
podcasting, but I did a.
Uh.
Something interesting happenedwhen I was working on my
(01:24):
dissertation.
I met someone who agreed tohelp me with the survey.
He participated in the surveywhen I was doing my research and
one of the things that he toldme is that he has his students,
instead of doing a presentation,he does it.
He has them do a podcast ofwhatever research he asked them
(01:45):
to do.
So I thought this was a greatidea and I gave my students the
option of making theirPowerPoint presentation into a
podcast.
So this series is based on that,and so in this episode we are
going to listen to Michelleelle,wesley and oscana and they're
(02:09):
going to talk about the hack ofthe office of personal
management breach, whichpersonally affected michelle.
Michelle is a former navypersonnel and we thank you for
your service.
So she was actually affected bythat.
So it's an interesting topicbecause it personally affects
(02:30):
her.
So you know, let me know,listen to it, let me know what
you guys think about you know,the summer series.
Hopefully you like it.
Hopefully you're listening toit.
All right, let's take it awayseries.
Hopefully you like it,hopefully you're listening to it
.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
All right, let's take it away.
Welcome listeners, to Unveilingthe OPM Breach.
A Timeline of Intrusion In late2013, the Office of Personnel
Management, also known as OPM,experienced a significant
cybersecurity breach thatreverberated through government
and contracted networks.
(03:06):
What was the breach?
Hackers gained unauthorizedaccess to OPM's networks,
acquiring valuable IT systemmanuals in late 2013.
These manuals provided insightsinto OPM's network architecture
, potentially facilitatingfuture cyber attacks.
The OPM cyber incidenthighlighted vulnerabilities in
(03:29):
government cybersecuritypractices and the need for
enhanced data protectionmeasures.
It underscored the importanceof proactive threat detection
and response strategies tomitigate the risk of future
breaches.
Joining me are Oksana and Wes.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Thank you, Michelle.
The breaches expose sensitiveinformation about federal
employees and security clearancedata.
This compromised data led to apublic announcement of the
breaches in June 2015, raisingconcerns about the security of
government personal information.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Wow.
So yeah, june 2015,.
Listeners keep that date inmind.
So hackers first breached theOPM and two contractors, usis
and Keypoint GovernmentSolutions, in late 2013 and
early 2014.
The breaches remainedundetected for months, allowing
(04:33):
intruders to access sensitiveinformation.
The breaches escalated overtime, culminating in the public
announcement as Oksana hadmentioned in a public
announcement of the breaches thedata breaches in June of 2015.
So imagine you're talking aboutthe public announcement being
nearly a year, year and a halflater.
(04:56):
Further investigations in Mayand June of 2015 revealed the
extent of the breach, affectingmillions of federal employees
and exposing security clearancedata.
The breaches highlightedvulnerabilities in government
cybersecurity practices andemphasized the need for enhanced
data protection measures.
(05:16):
All of this led to the OPMdirector, katarine Archuleta, to
resign in the wake of the databreaches to resign in the wake
of the data breaches.
She was under fire essentiallysince the revelations that
millions of people's personneldata was compromised by hackers,
(05:38):
and she actually submitted herresignation on a Friday morning
and the president accepted ityeah, so just keep in mind that
timeline right?
So the whole thing happened,you know, began in November of
2013.
And here it is July of 2015.
(05:59):
The director is essentiallyforced to resign because that's
how government works, right?
You resign because they giveyou a deal.
It's like they make you anoffer.
You can't refuse.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
You can't refuse.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
So it's either you resign and we'll part ways
amicably or you're getting firedand then you're never going to
work again in any sort ofindustry.
So that's essentially whathappened, and the reason that
she was essentially let go slashresigned is because she halted
(06:35):
a lot of the investigations intothis and delayed a lot of
information from going out tothe public.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So the breaches expose sensitive information
about federal employees andsecurity clearance data.
This compromised the data ledto an announcement of the
breaches in June of 2015.
Again, we have to reiteratethis all started in November of
2013.
And we started seeing movementa year to two years later,
(07:07):
raising concerns about thesecurity of government personnel
information.
One year after the OPM databreach, what has the government
learned?
So a reporter by the name ofBrian Naylor reported during the
week that marked a year sincethe government first revealed
(07:28):
that Hackett has stolen personalfiles of some 4 million current
and former federal employees.
About one month later, thatnumber grew to more than 20
million people, includingcontractors, family members and
others who had undergonebackground checks for federal
(07:50):
Hold on.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
So you mean to tell me it went from $4 million and a
month later another $16 plusmillion.
I think that number, yeah, thatsounds fishy to me right?
What do you guys think?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Have you been compromised?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Thank you, oksana.
Actually, I was compromised.
I found out that my informationwas part of the leak from OPM
and to this day, I'm stillreceiving alerts that either my
email, my phone number, mysocial security it's out there.
The numbers have grownimmensely throughout the years.
(08:36):
Back in 2018, I received threenotifications.
In 2019, I received eightnotifications notifications 2027
, 2021, 8, 2022, which is justtwo years ago.
I received 10 notifications.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Last year I received 14.
And we're now in May and I'vealready received four
notifications.
You told me you've got fournotifications.
I've been your outreach.
It's an 11-year-old breach.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, and what's funny is they've all.
In the beginning they onlydiscussed two subcontractors
that were breached, but withinthe years, I guess all of my
information has leaked intoother you know other places like
staffing agencies.
(09:28):
I've I've applied for a lot ofuh companies and um my later has
my data has been leaked, likein things, like in uh USA
staffing, um wherever I got myfingerprints done Also my data
was leaked, and it's not onlymine but it's also my family
(09:50):
members.
So I have two children and myhusband and all of our data has
been leaked.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Well, that kind of makes sense to 20 million plus
people, right.
But the fact that in a month'stime it went from 4 million, to
over 20.
And 11 years later.
Those are old numbers.
Those are old numbers, so whoknows how many by now?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And that's the thing A lot of people don't know that
they've been hacked.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yes, so what about you Wes?
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Well, you know, I have to say like I don't
remember exactly if I've appliedfor jobs through OPM or USA
jobs, but sounds like you know Idon't get any notifications.
So I'm either very, very luckyor I'm not being told that my
information is out there.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
You know so how, how, actually, michelle, let's get
into that.
How do you?
Actually get notified so I wasfirst notified that, while I was
serving our country, the datahad leaked.
Wait a minute.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Because you're a veteran, you've got information
that.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I didn't know Really.
I'm going to tell you facts ofhow I found out.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Once.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
OPM verified and found the leaks.
They actually set up a lifetimemonitoring, and so the company
that usually gives me my alertit's called opmmyidcarecom, and
(11:32):
if you go to that website,actually you could input some of
your information and it willthen tell you whether or not
you've been jeopardized.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Now I'm curious Is that specific to people that
have applied to jobs through OPM?
I?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
would I mean I'm going to look into it because I
don't think I'm that lucky.
So I don't know if it's exactlyonly OPM related, but even my
email in the past.
I mean, everyone has a Yahoocomaccount or has had one at some
(12:13):
point, and one of my breacheswere through Yahoocom.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
So but when I say that it's just that I use that
account with within my searchingfor employment, we're going to
give you that information onthat website again later on,
just before we close, so that itstays fresh in your mind.
But how about you, oksana?
(12:41):
Have you had any breaches?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I don't think so.
I haven't.
I applied to jobs.
She's the lucky one.
She's the lucky one.
I haven't applied to.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
She's the lucky one she hasn't applied.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
But Ukrainians can install app on their phones and
in that app they have access toall information, all documents
like for passport, driverlicense, high school diploma and
(13:17):
they don't need to upload itindividually.
They can only scan a chip ontheir ID card and they can have
access to all that.
Wow.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
And it's so.
It's one app yeah, one scan andeverything everything
everything is uploaded at once,so all sorts of personal
sensitive information, youremails, your birthday, your
social security numbers, yourdriver's license.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
She's a high school diploma.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Wow, she said high school diploma.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Because I have only Ukrainian high school diploma,
like people who graduate fromuniversities, like they.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
That too my gosh.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Okay, so to me, right , okay.
So that's you completely.
One scan basically tracks yourlife into this one app.
How vulnerable is that?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
yes, so it's kind of scary yeah, I'm not sure about
security, like it's defense, butit is what it is okay.
Ukraine right, it's a small,small country on the other side
of the world.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
It is what it is.
Okay.
So this is Ukraine, right, it'sa small, small country on the
other side of the world, butthis 11-year-old breach that's
still affecting members today,that could be affecting me and I
don't even know, is it'sAmerican?
We're like a superpower,supposedly, but we can't patch
this breach 11 years later.
So I would say and I don't wantto worry you, oksana, but I
(14:54):
would say that you know that-one happened to you.
I be compromised or easilycompromised.
But yeah, I mean, think aboutit, right, Like that's.
This is the world that we livein now.
Right, it's only going to getmore tech as the years roll by.
We're going to try to wrap thisup in a little bit.
(15:19):
Like I said, we're going tomention to our listeners the
webpage.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Basically, the OPM cybersecurity breach serves as a
reminder of the ongoingchallenges in safeguarding
sensitive government dataagainst evolving cyber threats.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Continued efforts are essential to strengthen
cybersecurity release andprotect critical information
access from unauthorized access.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
So, guys, thank you for joining us.
We appreciate our listeners.
We're going to have to doanother episode in the future on
what you know.
Once we we're going to dissectthis a little bit more and we're
going to dive into what it isor how it is that these things
need to get passed, becausethat's the field that we're in.
Before we go, michelle, pleaseone more time with the uh
(16:14):
website so that our listenerscan go on there and see what you
know if they're beingcompromised absolutely wes, so
that website is opmmy id careyes, so thank you for tuning in
to unveiling the op Bridge atimeline of instruction.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Be sure to subscribe for future episodes and don't
hesitate to reach out with anyfeedback or questions.
Stay safe online and until nexttime.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Alright, that's going to be.
That's's gonna put a bow onthis episode.
I hope you guys like that one.
I really enjoy that one.
Thank you to michelle west andoscana.
You guys did an absolutelybanged up job on this one and we
appreciate it.
Until next time.
This has been a Little Cha-ChaProductions.
(17:38):
Art by Sarah, music by Joe Kim.
If you want to reach me, youcan email me at ProfessorJrod
Jrod.
Thank you and welcome to technology tap.
I'm professor j rod in thisepisode, our second episode of
our summer series.
Let's get into it.
All right, welcome back toTechnology Tap.
(01:00):
I'm Professor J-Rod.
For those of you who don't knowme'm, my name is professor j
rod and I am professor of cybersecurity, and I've been doing
this podcast I don't know almostgoing on four years and for
this summer.
Usually I don't really do a lotduring the summer as far as
podcasting, but I did a.
Uh.
Something interesting happenedwhen I was working on my
(01:24):
dissertation.
I met someone who agreed tohelp me with the survey.
He participated in the surveywhen I was doing my research and
one of the things that he toldme is that he has his students,
instead of doing a presentation,he does it.
He has them do a podcast ofwhatever research he asked them
(01:45):
to do.
So I thought this was a greatidea and I gave my students the
option of making theirPowerPoint presentation into a
podcast.
So this series is based on that,and so in this episode we are
going to listen to Michelleelle,wesley and oscana and they're
(02:09):
going to talk about the hack ofthe office of personal
management breach, whichpersonally affected michelle.
Michelle is a former navypersonnel and we thank you for
your service.
So she was actually affected bythat.
So it's an interesting topicbecause it personally affects
(02:30):
her.
So you know, let me know,listen to it, let me know what
you guys think about you know,the summer series.
Hopefully you like it.
Hopefully you're listening toit.
All right, let's take it awayseries.
Hopefully you like it,hopefully you're listening to it
.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
All right, let's take it away.
Welcome listeners, to Unveilingthe OPM Breach.
A Timeline of Intrusion In late2013, the Office of Personnel
Management, also known as OPM,experienced a significant
cybersecurity breach thatreverberated through government
and contracted networks.
(03:06):
What was the breach?
Hackers gained unauthorizedaccess to OPM's networks,
acquiring valuable IT systemmanuals in late 2013.
These manuals provided insightsinto OPM's network architecture
, potentially facilitatingfuture cyber attacks.
The OPM cyber incidenthighlighted vulnerabilities in
(03:29):
government cybersecuritypractices and the need for
enhanced data protectionmeasures.
It underscored the importanceof proactive threat detection
and response strategies tomitigate the risk of future
breaches.
Joining me are Oksana and Wes.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Thank you, Michelle.
The breaches expose sensitiveinformation about federal
employees and security clearancedata.
This compromised data led to apublic announcement of the
breaches in June 2015, raisingconcerns about the security of
government personal information.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Wow.
So yeah, june 2015,.
Listeners keep that date inmind.
So hackers first breached theOPM and two contractors, usis
and Keypoint GovernmentSolutions, in late 2013 and
early 2014.
The breaches remainedundetected for months, allowing
(04:33):
intruders to access sensitiveinformation.
The breaches escalated overtime, culminating in the public
announcement as Oksana hadmentioned in a public
announcement of the breaches thedata breaches in June of 2015.
So imagine you're talking aboutthe public announcement being
nearly a year, year and a halflater.
(04:56):
Further investigations in Mayand June of 2015 revealed the
extent of the breach, affectingmillions of federal employees
and exposing security clearancedata.
The breaches highlightedvulnerabilities in government
cybersecurity practices andemphasized the need for enhanced
data protection measures.
(05:16):
All of this led to the OPMdirector, katarine Archuleta, to
resign in the wake of the databreaches to resign in the wake
of the data breaches.
She was under fire essentiallysince the revelations that
millions of people's personneldata was compromised by hackers,
(05:38):
and she actually submitted herresignation on a Friday morning
and the president accepted ityeah, so just keep in mind that
timeline right?
So the whole thing happened,you know, began in November of
2013.
And here it is July of 2015.
(05:59):
The director is essentiallyforced to resign because that's
how government works, right?
You resign because they giveyou a deal.
It's like they make you anoffer.
You can't refuse.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
You can't refuse.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
So it's either you resign and we'll part ways
amicably or you're getting firedand then you're never going to
work again in any sort ofindustry.
So that's essentially whathappened, and the reason that
she was essentially let go slashresigned is because she halted
(06:35):
a lot of the investigations intothis and delayed a lot of
information from going out tothe public.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
So the breaches expose sensitive information
about federal employees andsecurity clearance data.
This compromised the data ledto an announcement of the
breaches in June of 2015.
Again, we have to reiteratethis all started in November of
2013.
And we started seeing movementa year to two years later,
(07:07):
raising concerns about thesecurity of government personnel
information.
One year after the OPM databreach, what has the government
learned?
So a reporter by the name ofBrian Naylor reported during the
week that marked a year sincethe government first revealed
(07:28):
that Hackett has stolen personalfiles of some 4 million current
and former federal employees.
About one month later, thatnumber grew to more than 20
million people, includingcontractors, family members and
others who had undergonebackground checks for federal
(07:50):
Hold on.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
So you mean to tell me it went from $4 million and a
month later another $16 plusmillion.
I think that number, yeah, thatsounds fishy to me right?
What do you guys think?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
Have you been compromised?
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Thank you, oksana.
Actually, I was compromised.
I found out that my informationwas part of the leak from OPM
and to this day, I'm stillreceiving alerts that either my
email, my phone number, mysocial security it's out there.
The numbers have grownimmensely throughout the years.
(08:36):
Back in 2018, I received threenotifications.
In 2019, I received eightnotifications notifications 2027
, 2021, 8, 2022, which is justtwo years ago.
I received 10 notifications.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Last year I received 14.
And we're now in May and I'vealready received four
notifications.
You told me you've got fournotifications.
I've been your outreach.
It's an 11-year-old breach.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, and what's funny is they've all.
In the beginning they onlydiscussed two subcontractors
that were breached, but withinthe years, I guess all of my
information has leaked intoother you know other places like
staffing agencies.
(09:28):
I've I've applied for a lot ofuh companies and um my later has
my data has been leaked, likein things, like in uh USA
staffing, um wherever I got myfingerprints done Also my data
was leaked, and it's not onlymine but it's also my family
(09:50):
members.
So I have two children and myhusband and all of our data has
been leaked.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Well, that kind of makes sense to 20 million plus
people, right.
But the fact that in a month'stime it went from 4 million, to
over 20.
And 11 years later.
Those are old numbers.
Those are old numbers, so whoknows how many by now?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
And that's the thing A lot of people don't know that
they've been hacked.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Yes, so what about you Wes?
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Well, you know, I have to say like I don't
remember exactly if I've appliedfor jobs through OPM or USA
jobs, but sounds like you know Idon't get any notifications.
So I'm either very, very luckyor I'm not being told that my
information is out there.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
You know so how, how, actually, michelle, let's get
into that.
How do you?
Actually get notified so I wasfirst notified that, while I was
serving our country, the datahad leaked.
Wait a minute.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
Because you're a veteran, you've got information
that.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
I didn't know Really.
I'm going to tell you facts ofhow I found out.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Once.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
OPM verified and found the leaks.
They actually set up a lifetimemonitoring, and so the company
that usually gives me my alertit's called opmmyidcarecom, and
(11:32):
if you go to that website,actually you could input some of
your information and it willthen tell you whether or not
you've been jeopardized.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Now I'm curious Is that specific to people that
have applied to jobs through OPM?
I?
Speaker 2 (11:52):
would I mean I'm going to look into it because I
don't think I'm that lucky.
So I don't know if it's exactlyonly OPM related, but even my
email in the past.
I mean, everyone has a Yahoocomaccount or has had one at some
(12:13):
point, and one of my breacheswere through Yahoocom.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
So but when I say that it's just that I use that
account with within my searchingfor employment, we're going to
give you that information onthat website again later on,
just before we close, so that itstays fresh in your mind.
But how about you, oksana?
(12:41):
Have you had any breaches?
Speaker 3 (12:46):
I don't think so.
I haven't.
I applied to jobs.
She's the lucky one.
She's the lucky one.
I haven't applied to.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
She's the lucky one she hasn't applied.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
But Ukrainians can install app on their phones and
in that app they have access toall information, all documents
like for passport, driverlicense, high school diploma and
(13:17):
they don't need to upload itindividually.
They can only scan a chip ontheir ID card and they can have
access to all that.
Wow.
Speaker 4 (13:32):
And it's so.
It's one app yeah, one scan andeverything everything
everything is uploaded at once,so all sorts of personal
sensitive information, youremails, your birthday, your
social security numbers, yourdriver's license.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
She's a high school diploma.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Wow, she said high school diploma.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
Because I have only Ukrainian high school diploma,
like people who graduate fromuniversities, like they.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
That too my gosh.
Speaker 4 (14:04):
Okay, so to me, right , okay.
So that's you completely.
One scan basically tracks yourlife into this one app.
How vulnerable is that?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
yes, so it's kind of scary yeah, I'm not sure about
security, like it's defense, butit is what it is okay.
Ukraine right, it's a small,small country on the other side
of the world.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
It is what it is.
Okay.
So this is Ukraine, right, it'sa small, small country on the
other side of the world, butthis 11-year-old breach that's
still affecting members today,that could be affecting me and I
don't even know, is it'sAmerican?
We're like a superpower,supposedly, but we can't patch
this breach 11 years later.
So I would say and I don't wantto worry you, oksana, but I
(14:54):
would say that you know that-one happened to you.
I be compromised or easilycompromised.
But yeah, I mean, think aboutit, right, Like that's.
This is the world that we livein now.
Right, it's only going to getmore tech as the years roll by.
We're going to try to wrap thisup in a little bit.
(15:19):
Like I said, we're going tomention to our listeners the
webpage.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Basically, the OPM cybersecurity breach serves as a
reminder of the ongoingchallenges in safeguarding
sensitive government dataagainst evolving cyber threats.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
Continued efforts are essential to strengthen
cybersecurity release andprotect critical information
access from unauthorized access.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
So, guys, thank you for joining us.
We appreciate our listeners.
We're going to have to doanother episode in the future on
what you know.
Once we we're going to dissectthis a little bit more and we're
going to dive into what it isor how it is that these things
need to get passed, becausethat's the field that we're in.
Before we go, michelle, pleaseone more time with the uh
(16:14):
website so that our listenerscan go on there and see what you
know if they're beingcompromised absolutely wes, so
that website is opmmy id careyes, so thank you for tuning in
to unveiling the op Bridge atimeline of instruction.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Be sure to subscribe for future episodes and don't
hesitate to reach out with anyfeedback or questions.
Stay safe online and until nexttime.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Alright, that's going to be.
That's's gonna put a bow onthis episode.
I hope you guys like that one.
I really enjoy that one.
Thank you to michelle west andoscana.
You guys did an absolutelybanged up job on this one and we
appreciate it.
Until next time.
This has been a Little Cha-ChaProductions.
(17:38):
Art by Sarah, music by Joe Kim.
If you want to reach me, youcan email me at ProfessorJrod
Jrod.
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