December 14, 2022 • 63 mins
The Raphael Warnock - Herschel Walker circus, the startling 50 million dollars raised for Warnock in 4 weeks, and why Stacy Abrams lost her second gubernatorial bid, we discuss it all! Former Mississippi House Representative Erik Flemings breaks down the blood sport of politics.
Robert Fleming is an American politician who was a member of the Mississippi House of Representatives and represented the 72nd District for nearly a decade. Erik Fleming is also the former Director of Policy with the American Civil Liberties Union of Mississippi. He became Deputy Sheriff with the Fulton County Sheriff's Office in Georgia. Although he no longer serves in office, Erik Fleming continues in politics and is an advocate for the causes of African Americans through his politically charged podcast, "A Moment with Erik Fleming."
Robert Fleming is an American politician who was a member of the Mississippi House of Representatives and represented the 72nd District for nearly a decade. Erik Fleming is also the former Director of Policy with the American Civil Liberties Union of Mississippi. He became Deputy Sheriff with the Fulton County Sheriff's Office in Georgia. Although he no longer serves in office, Erik Fleming continues in politics and is an advocate for the causes of African Americans through his politically charged podcast, "A Moment with Erik Fleming."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:29):
Welcome to Team Leadership Radio. That's t E E M. Train, Equipped,
empower and Mobilized Leadership. I'm your host, doctor Cecilia Martin,
and I have joined me tonight. Eric Robert Fleming. Eric
Fleming is an American politician who was a member of
(00:51):
the Mississippi House of Representatives and represented the seventy second
district for nearly a decade. Eric is also the former
director of Policy with the American Civil Liberties Union of
Mississippi and then later went on to become a Deputy
sheriff with the Fulton County Sheriff's Office in Georgia. Although
(01:12):
he no longer serves an office, Eric Fleming continues in
politics and is an advocate for the causes of African
Americans through his politically charged podcast entitled A Moment with
Eric Fleming. And I'm excited to have a few moments
with him here tonight. Welcome Eric, Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Hey dog, how you doing.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I'm doing lovely. You know it's a holiday season, are
you ready?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Oh yeah, yeah, buying gifts and just you know, just
got the whole whole holiday vibe going on right now.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, oh yeah. It's a one full time year, I
tell you that much. So is it cold in Chicago
right now? You actually you grew up in Chicago, but
you're now in Georgia, right.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yes, and the answer is cold in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, it's a wicked cold in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, that's that's a given. It's cold in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yes. Tell me what was it like growing up there
and what did your parents do for a living.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So my dad did a lot of things, but he
was primarily a bus driver, UH for the Chicago Transit
Authority up there. And my mom, well, he was also
a police officer too, but most of his career has
been either you know, driving buses, either with the CTA
(02:49):
or with private companies. Right. And then my mom, she
was an educator. She was you remember the movie Cooley High. Yeah, yeah,
she actually taught at the real she was. She was
the cheerlead eight years and then she left, uh to
(03:13):
work for the Board of Health health educator for the
City of Chicago. So she did that for thirty some
years and then she retired and she passed away in
twenty thirteen.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Okay, okay, my goodness, Coolie High. Yeah, oh man, that's
a classic. So when you grew up in Chicago. Did
you like the cold? I mean for me when I
you know, I consulted there for a year, and yeah,
I went every month and at some point, you know,
(03:52):
when your eyelids start to freeze, You're like, God, why
are you mad at these people? It's a it's an
ungollly cold in Chicago. Go and I know people live
there and they raise they get raised there, But I
don't know how you grow up loving that type of weather.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, you don't love it, but you get used to
it because it's like, I mean, you know, people, that's
why house music is like popular in Chicago. It's got
because you had to dance. You had to dance that
we wait, I had to dance to get to the store.
I mean, it's cold. And fortunately, you know, growing up
(04:29):
on the south side of Chicago, you you didn't get
the full lake effect. Right the further east you went
toward them, the worst it got because that's where that
that Lake Michigan wind effect kicks in. And you know,
(04:50):
downtown you've got all the buildings, so you know that
when that you hit the right alley or right street,
that wind's gonna's gonna hit.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
You really really are so yeah, oh, it's gonna it's
gonna get you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, but that's the joke where we didn't have you know,
you never saw black people sitting in Soldier Field because
it is right on the lake, and it's like, no
way we sitting out there watching the bear and the
bears weren't really that good back then, so uh, it
wasn't good now, So we weren't going to be sitting
out there in that free you know, in the in
(05:26):
the cold to watch it blake. But it was a
was a great you know, aside from the winner, Chicago
was a great place. I say those twenty years, well
eighteen years that I lived there from sixty five to
eighty three, we're probably the best years to be a
(05:48):
black person in Chicago. You saw businesses, you know, you
had you had businesses throughout the history, but it was
like those eighteen years led to the first black mayor
we ever had that it was Haroah Washington, and you
could see that political power developed during that time. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I read Michelle Obama's book and of course saw her documentary,
and she talks about life growing up on the South
Shot or in the South side of Chicago, and she
had the same sentiment. She loved it. There was community
and a sense of pride there and you know, just
(06:33):
hearing that your mom worked at Coolie High. I mean,
you see these things on TV and you're like, okay,
that was real. And your dad was a bus driver.
So how did you go from Chicago to Mississippi of
all places?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Well, Jackson State said, I didn't have to pay for
anything to go to college. That was the appeal. But
fortunately my dad is from Mississippi. Originally he was born
there and so he left, I guess when he was two,
and he grew up in the southern part of Illinois,
(07:13):
and but you know, still had relatives and stuff down there.
So you know, once I got used to the culture
shock of being uh a city boy, now I'm down
here in in in Mississippi, right, you know. And and
(07:36):
but Mississippi is really not as bad as it was portrayed.
And of course it was a different time then when
my dad was you know, born there. Uh, but it
it is not as bad as far as interacting with
people about stuff to do and all that. It's just
(07:58):
missisispp Ain't got no money. That's the biggest issue. Yeah,
I mean not you know, money not like Georgia or
not like Chicago. You know what I'm saying. It's like this,
you know, a lot of wealth there and and so people,
(08:18):
but people you know make it and you know, and
they do what they do. And uh, you know Jackson State,
you know, biased or unbiased however you want to look
at it. How I say it is one of the
best colleges in the nation, let alone at historically black college.
(08:41):
And it's right there in the heart of the heart
of the states. So you know, Mississippi is a good place.
It's you know, you just gotta you know, get used
to it and and you know, and then you know,
there's a history between Chicago and Mississippi. But a lot
(09:03):
of the people, the black people who live in Chicago
have roots in Mississippi as well as other parts of the South,
but primarily Mississippi. So yeah, so it's like, yeah, you know,
and that's that's when I when I used to give
speeches down there, I used to tell folks I was
from a little small town up north in Mississippi called Chicago,
(09:25):
and they.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, okay, so you honestly adjusted well because you ended
up getting in politics, held your office for nearly a decade,
I think nine years and some months. How did you
get into politics? Is it something that you aspired to do?
I mean, how did you make the transition from Jackson
(09:49):
from Chicago to Jackson State and now you're in politics.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Well, if you grow up in Chicago, politics is something
that you know, right. So my great aunt was my
main influence. Lady named Margie Spencer, and she never ran
for publical office. All she did was vote, but she
paid attention. So whenever she babysat mean, which is basically
(10:16):
every day while I was in school, it was like,
you know, I would sit down and watch the TV
with her and watching the news and all that, and
she would tell me who these particular people were. And
then it got the point where I started telling her
who these people were, right, and that My parents claimed
(10:38):
that I could read like when I was two, So
they bought me a set of in some medias and
my favorite section was the President of the United States.
And you know, looking back, I was drawn to the
pages because you had all these little headshots. You know,
(11:00):
I remember, You're fascinated with that, right, and You're like,
so I just got fascinated with the presidency, and you know,
I was learning all this stuff like who was the fattest,
you know, who served the longest, who or does I had?
You know, I was like a trivia buffer all that stuff.
That's what really kind of got me interested. I mean,
(11:23):
I was still young, so I liked baseball and meteorology.
I was I thought I would be a weather man
at one time. I mean just all, you know, just
being a kid, just enjoying stuff. But politics was always there.
And despite all the stuff I wanted to do, right,
(11:43):
play baseball, be a fireman, be a meteorologist, whatever, eventually
I wanted to be president. Okay, so that was kind
of my goal. And so my first political victory was
is my junior year, well really my sophomore year, but
(12:03):
it was we were running for junior class president, and
I was kind of considered more of a class clown
more than anything serious. But I gave this great speech
and they voted me in as president. So that was
my first political campaign.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Do you still remember the speech?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
No, I don't remember the speech word for word, but
I do remember the thing, okay, and real quick, what
happened was the class. You know, our sophomore class had
this stupid idea and I say that now, and I'm
really being nice to sell bumper stickers and windows decals
(12:52):
for cars, and it's like, we don't drive, you know
what I'm saying. It was like we take all of
us take public transportation. It was cool. It's like very
few of us drove, and especially with the gang situation around,
we definitely work on drive because be the one that's
bringing into our cars. You know, we really didn't have
a place to park either, but none of you know,
(13:14):
that's what they did. So we ended up losing money
out that deal. And so my campaign was, you know,
basically like we've got to be the only high school
class in America that's broke, you know what I'm saying.
And you know, I was just going in and I said,
we're not gonna you know, we're not gonna do crazy
stuff like that. We're gonna do stuff that makes that
(13:36):
we can make money off of. And our class shirts
are gonna be fly because you know, that was that
was the duty of the junior class to pick the
class shirt design for our senior year. So that was
I said, we're going to have the best class shirts
and all that. So, yeah, like I said, I didn't
remember I didn't, and I wasn't the only one that
(14:00):
ran on the theme about being broken.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
About being broke. Okay, okay, that's a good segue, because
inquiring minds want to know. This is a question I
really really wanted to ask you because many of us
are so curious and we don't understand, the general public
does not understand. Tell us how the money works in politics?
(14:23):
There are millions spent on candidates. Where does the money go?
Where we have an idea where it's coming from now,
because it's it's pretty much not a public knowledge to
some extent in some cases, but millions, I mean record
breaking millions. Where does the money go? And how do
(14:43):
you get it?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So, just to highlight your point, we just had a
major runoff election here in Georgia for State Senate Raphael Warnock,
who won. Just for the four weeks between November eighth
and December to six, these fifty million.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Dollars, My goodness.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
That's over ten million dollars a week. When you break
it down, it's incredible. And they spend it. So what
you spend that on? Uh? The reason why, especially these
high profile profile races, they spend it on TV and
(15:33):
newspaper and radio advertising. Okay, television advertising is the most
expensive expenditure for a campaign. You just.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Come on, you think you spent fifty million dollars in
four weeks?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, shourplus or excess leftover for something.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
No, because it's like, you know, they may have some
cash at hand, but it's not that much because the
television advertising is so high.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And it used to be a time because it was
the public airwaves, you didn't have to pay for campaign advertising.
But as TV needed advertising dollars to keep it free,
especially compete with cable, just start charging. And so when
(16:35):
you have a media market like Atlanta, it's going to
cost a lot of money. Fifty million dollars in Mississippi?
Would you would? You would blow the opposition away if
you have fifty million dollars in Mississippi, but in Atlanta
and the Georgia market, because you now only have Atlanta,
but you have Savannah, you have Columbus and they have
(16:58):
their own media thing. I think Augusta is considered a
media market too. You know, it's like you've got to
spend that money, and you got to spend money radio advertising.
It's cheap, but you know you have to you have
to buy a whole lot of ads. So the more
(17:19):
advertising that you buy, the more name reckon, Yeah, the more.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
You saturate the public with your thing, with your face, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And then all those beautiful yard signs that you see
on the on the road and then people's yards. That's
campaign expenditure. People have gotten away from the bumper stickers now,
but you know a few campaigns still do that. You know,
just everything that you see, the T shirts, yeah, you know,
(17:51):
and then the people, the people out there saying, hey,
vote for so and so, vote for Eric. You know,
they gotta be paid. The word volunteer.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Is you know, it's not Yeah, I know it doesn't
exist anymore much. However, I volunteer for two campaigns, and
I know how grueling they can be, especially if you're
in the neighborhood and you're going door to door. One
was for a city council person, and the other was
(18:25):
the Obama campaign. The first I was a volunteer, the
first his first term.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And when I think about the money, okay, I'm thinking
in context of I've reviewed budgets for school districts that
maybe sixty six million dollars for the year. So I'm
thinking about a campaign using fifty million dollars in four weeks?
(18:54):
Are it does it? In any way? I have no
judgment about the matter. It's just I would love to
actually look at a campaign budget, a four week budget,
and just see the itemization of the fifty million dollars
for four weeks. But I guess it leaves a question
for the general public too, because we're sitting back on
(19:15):
the outside looking. Is that a misplacement of values of assets,
of time, of money or because you're you've been in
it so or is it always money well spent?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well? I don't know about money well spent. Is money
that has to be spent, right because if you want
to have the best presence, and even when you were
knocking on doors, see all that stuff that you were
handing out to those folks, that's that's paid out of
(19:51):
campaign funds. So you know, people, what about when they lose?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Eric, is it still money well spent even when they lose?
Because I guess you need the money to fight a
good fight. Huh.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I mean yeah, I mean it's a fifty to fifty
proposition when you jump in there anyway, sure, true, And
so you have to go in with the reality that
you may not be the choice, but you've you've got
to put the best strategy together. And you don't necessarily
have to have all the money in the world to
run an effective campaign, but you know what money you
(20:28):
do have, you have to strategize the best way to
utilize it. And one of the things that we try
to teach people running for office is that you budget
backwards instead of forward. Right. You make sure you have
enough money on election day to make your last push.
(20:48):
You make sure that you've got your precincts covered with workers,
that you've got you know, signage, that you've got shirts
and all that stuff. And once you've got election day
set up, then you work your way back. Okay, so
you know, a month worths of advertising leading to election,
it's going to cost how much How you know how
(21:09):
many TV ads you want to buy? I mean, I
want to buy how many newspaper ads You've got to buy?
All that kind of stuff. But I mean, you know,
you got a trend. If you're running state wide, you
gotta pay for gas to get you around, if you
if you do like some of these campaigns and get
like buses and.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
All this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, we had a situation where it's like I had,
you know, a candidate that had to go from one
under the state to the other, you know, doing campaign stops,
and we had to figure out how much it's going
to cost the charter a plane to get him to
(21:54):
where he's got to be or a helicopter.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
See, yeah, all.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
That all that stuff, you know, whereas like in Mississippi,
for example, you've got eighty two counties. In Georgia, you
got one hundred and fifty nine, and so you know
a lot of stuff. You know, it's centered around Atlanta,
but Atlanta's kind of north, right, there's a whole lot
of state south, and you've got two majors, Columbus and
(22:20):
Savannah South. So you've got to get making. You got
to get to all those spots. You know. Georgia's if
you if you just wanted to do college tours, it's
like twenty colleges in the state of Georgia alone. So
you know, it costs. It costs money to run an
(22:40):
effective campaign because and then you gotta pay staff, you
gotta pay a campaign manager. You know, a fundraiser basically
raises their own money, you know, but you know, but
all that stuff has to be paid. You know, you
got to pay people, You got to pay for polls
and all this other stuff. So there's if you're a vendor,
(23:05):
you know, political political vendor, it's like, you know, when
you have these congressional and presidential elections, you can make
it make a killing.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Oh gosh, yes, we're all in the wrong business. Yeah,
and you know, I want to stay there for a
second with Georgia because once again Georgia was in the
national spotlight. Okay, let's go back before we talk about
Warnock and Walker. Let's go back with all the progress
(23:39):
that Georgia has made overall, with Stacy Abrams at the
helm of that, you know, rocking the vote. Why don't
you think she won even at two tries.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
So we only got a few minutes to talk. So,
but bottom line is this is that, you know, the
first time was really close, and she got she you know,
it's like usually the first time you're running against somebody
and it's an open seat. Uh, you know, it's gonna
(24:17):
be close, especially in a state like Georgia, and it's
gonna be real competitive, and you don't really know what
the other side is going to do until they do
it and you just have to counter and all that
kind of stuff. So now a rematch four years later, Well, one,
the person she's running against now is the governor and
(24:42):
he kind of knows her playbook right, and so you know,
and to be honest, the legislature kind of helped, you know,
and trying to make it tougher for people to be
able to vote, especially people that more than life would
vote for her. Sure it didn't stop people from coming,
(25:04):
but there were a lot of dynamics at play, you
know when you strictly look at her versus him.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
But let me jump in, Let me jump in, because
we're gonna double dutch this because I know we don't
have much time. Yeah, So I mean, you and I
we already know we talk offline for hours, so we're
gonna we're gonna try to stay in this zone for
another thirty minutes and keep this an hour. But is
(25:37):
it true? So you live in Georgia now, and so
you know you're sort of you're still advocating in politics
and all of that good stuff. I it was my
understanding that some people felt that she was more of
a national figure, or maybe that she was somehow self
(26:00):
in her efforts in the second run. Is that what
you guys really perceived her to be uh in Georgia
or was that just some of the negative ads and
rhetoric that they were thrown around regarding her because she seemed,
I mean, she can't help that. She's a national figure
at this point. But I'm gonna hear I want to
(26:21):
hear you as a resident, not as the booth the
political eric. But what's the general perception of her in Georgia,
because I mean, she's admired far and why. But and
it baffles us. It seems bizarre that she wouldn't win
that second time around, especially because she got so close
the first time.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well as as if you if you look at her
from a residence viewpoint, there was there was some resentment
about about that, and and to Kemp's credit, he actually
ran an ad called Celebrity Stacy. And so you know,
so if she was white, that wouldn't have mattered as much.
(27:07):
But because she is black and you are in the South,
there is an element of people that you know, don't
cater to that. There's an element of people that don't
cater to a woman being thatcher and so she has
(27:28):
she has to navigate those two things. Being in the
South first of all, So as far as black people
were concerned, they were they were rumbling about she wasn't
connecting with black men. But on election day and through
the early voting process, black men showed up in high numbers,
(27:53):
and so, you know, as far as the black community
was concerned, there wasn't as much. Even though there were
some high profile black people that did not endorse her,
there was and you know, there's some backstory behind that,
but the reality was, as a whole, the black community
(28:15):
rallied around her. The issue was there were a lot
of people that felt that Kemp was more in tune
with what the people of Georgia wanted, especially during the pandemic.
You know, he fought to keep businesses open despite the
(28:39):
health warnings, and you know, I mean it's like a
lot of people died in Georgia because of that, but
a lot of businesses survived the pandemic because of that.
So wow, Yeah, So it was it was you know,
from a residence, it all depends on where you live.
If you want a president's perspective. From the black community,
(29:01):
she was fine. Uh, And they're the ones who kind
of put her on that pedestal, so they understood. But
you know, in the white community, there was some backlash.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
What do you think she's going next? What are you predicting?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I don't know what she's gonna do. If I was
advising her, I tell her that she needs to get
that lawyer lawyer briefcase dusted off and go help Mark
Elias file these lawsuits.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
So she's she's a JD.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
She has a yeah, yeah, she's an attorney and she's
an accomplished author. She writes romance novels, novels under another pseudonym,
but yeah, yeah, true. But she's an attorney, and so
(29:53):
you know, hopefully she can get a judicial appointment or
ag appointment with a Democratic president down the line. But
the main thing that she's going to do is continue
to push the fight voter suppression laws and continue to
(30:20):
get people readish to vote. That organization that she set
up now is perpetual and they're going to be around
for a long time. So you know, I see her
still being involved in that fight. But you know, if
I was her, I'd be in a courtroom every time
they changed the voting law in the state. I'd be
(30:41):
flying out there trying to help that council, you know,
like being crumped everywhere, help people that are victims of
police brutality. She needs to be that same kind of
attorney going all over the country making sure that voting
voting rights are protected.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, and I'm surprised I'm missed that about her because
I was following her work for a little bit and
she did, of course, an amazing tech ted talk. But yeah,
that sounds like a job that she could handle.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Oh yeah, And you know, I'm gonna be looking up
her romance novels. I'm gonna try to figure out what
her pen name is.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Uses. But if you google it, they'll they'll tell you
what name she uses.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Okay, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
He's written several books.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Oh, that's a fun fact to know under a pen name. Okay,
I think a lot of folks gonna be looking that up. Now,
let's fast forward a little bit because this recent campaign
between war Noto and Walker. Okay, first, it was a
tight race, and that's shocking, right, considering the two candidates.
(31:55):
Do you think the residence of Georgia was so drawn
to Walker?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Well, if you understand Herschel Walker's history, Herkschel Walker is
a legend in the state of Georgia prior to them
winning the national championship last year. He was on the
last team to win one. He was probably one of
the greatest college football players play. He's from Wrightsville, Georgia's
(32:22):
a little small town. And you know, so.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I get the sentiment, Eric, but come on, and once,
once he made himself public and kept continue to talk.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Well, it just came down to black and white, right.
It just came down to the fact that white folks
vote Republicans for the most part. Here. I mean, you know,
you you've got hockets, of course in Atlanta and in
the metro area of white support for Democrats. But throughout
(33:00):
is is that you got a lot of white folks
that vote Republicans. And you know, the Republicans thought, well,
you know, he's a football hero, maybe the black folks
will cross over over him. And it's like, but you're
running against the man who is the pastor of Martin
Luther King's church. You're not gonna beat that guy, you know.
(33:23):
And so it was like the preacher versus the football player,
and and you know, and and and black folks wanted
the preacher because you know, not only he has he
done a good job while the one two years that
he's been up there, but I mean standing, you know,
and listening to him talk and then listening to Herschel
(33:43):
talking about werewolves and vampires and all that, as like, no, man,
we gotta go to Warnock. So black folks, black folks
in Georgia upset, they're mad. And then they're mad because
you threw Hershel walk out there thinking that he was
going to attract us to vote for him. And then
the second thing is it was too close run off.
(34:08):
We had to go back and vote again, and then
and then it was and then it was nigga. I
mean Walker at one point on on December sixth was
ahead in the votes, and so so black folks in
Georgia are hot.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Wait a minute, not black folks in Georgia, black folks
all over America. Because at some point it was turning
into a circus like it was the greatest show on Earth.
It was like, are y'all seriously thinking that the intelligent
black people, beautiful black people of Georgia are going to
vote for him? And you know, I have no shade
(34:46):
to throw at the brother in the sense that Lord
knows he was trying like the little train that could. Okay,
but it's it's just it was. It's just remarkable how
at the cost of of anything. You know, It's like,
as long as he's a Republican and with a pulse,
and it's offensive. It should be offensive to Republicans too,
(35:10):
black or white, because he was clearly not the best fit,
in the best candidate, even he did not align with
their values. He was not prepared for this type of role,
but yet they were pushing him so strong, and like
you said, the fact that it got into a runoff
(35:31):
was startling to Americans all over the United States.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah, you had some libertarian candidate that was able to
get two percent of the vote and it's like, oh, oh,
you know so now. And Warnock's polling knew it because
he was running commercials, you know, knocking on people's doors,
bringing Thanksgiving dinner, talking about it. If you don't want
me to come to your Thanksgiving dinner, you don't need
to runoff, you know what I'm saying. But you know,
(35:58):
it happened. And like I said, black folks are hot here.
They may be hotwhere, but they're really hot here because
they're looking at they're looking at their white neighbors like, okay, all.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Right, yeah it was it was just such yeah it was.
It was hard to watch afar. So I can imagine how,
like you said, you guys feel living there. And I'm
so disappointed because I have no shame in telling folks
(36:31):
I've floated. I voted both blue or red at different
points in my life, and most of the time it
felt like, oh not most of the time, I shouldn't
say that, but sometimes once you narrowed it down, it
found it felt like the lesser of two evils, like
you know, which one am I gonna go with? Okay,
(36:52):
but this seemed to be a clear cutcase of what
would who was the most qualified, the most prepared, the
most knowledgeable, the better representation of any party at this point.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
You know, but it's but it's but it's deeper than that.
It shows the real divide in America we are, and
and the fact that you know, in the in the
Democrat Party, we used to have a saying that you know,
we'll vote for a yellow dog if it's a Democrat,
and so we actually used to have a yellow Dog
Democrats club, right, So I mean, you know, the partisan
(37:33):
thing is nothing new. But it's like it really took
a turn. And then see Donald Trump really was had
his hands on Herschel Walker and they've had a history, uh,
you know, because Herschel was like the first player he
drafted when he owned the New Jersey Generals, so they've
had for a long time, and he really was the catalyst.
(37:57):
So the Republicans hands were kind of tied now. They
were that there was at least one qualified black candidate
that ran in the Republican primary, but because he didn't have
Donald Trump's blessing, he wasn't even in the conversation. So
it was Herschel against everybody else who was trying to
show how Trump and they were. But that was the
(38:18):
guy that Donald Trump wanted, So the Republicans went with that.
And you know, in the South and well, I guess
you can say in Arizona, in some places out west,
Trump is like still revered and despite everything that we
see on the news, he's still a revered figure. And
(38:41):
so when he put his anointing on Herschel, that pretty
much was all he needed to get the domination and
then you know carry over into the general election.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
But yeah, to him often as the kingmaker Woo Trump.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah, well, you know the attempt at Kingmaker. Now, he
pulled it off in Ohio with JD. Vance, but he
publicly humiliated Vance and Vans had to eat that crow
to get that endorsement. But you know, it didn't work
with doctor Oz, it didn't work with Blake Masters in Arizona.
(39:21):
You know, it didn't work. It didn't work with a
lot of other places. As a matter of fact, a
lot of those places flipped. And so what Donald Trump
has done is that, you know, to the you know,
to the chagrin or discomfort of the Republicans, is that
(39:42):
he's put him in a box and and and he's
made states that have been traditionally Republican more competitive. Georgia
is now competitive, Arizona is now competitive competitive, Pennsylvania is
now competitive, you know. So it's like in Ohio, I
mean Vance, but he didn't went a bout that much.
So it's like those states now have become battle of
(40:05):
the ground states even more so. And the shock was Florida,
how lopsided it was there. But you know, I mean
it is what it is. I think that until we
get a lot of that element out of the Republican conversation,
(40:26):
we'll start getting more qualified candidates on both sides. The
Democrats did a real good job running qualified candidates all
the way down the ticket. It's just that, you know,
in certain parts of the country it doesn't matter, and
and and so you know, when you've got that.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Mind is even you know, we were kind of shocked about,
you know, how bad Beto laws.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah, it was that was his third attempt.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Well, I mean that was his Yeah, I think it
was second attempt for governor. Maybe I don't know, but
I mean Beto hopefully, Yeah, he may end up getting
because he ran for the Senate and he ran for president. Yep.
But you know, it was like, you know, Beato is
(41:25):
a good guy, but you know, he obviously is not
the guy that can get that crossover vote right in Texas.
He gets the Democratic base with no problem. But you know,
winning a state like winning it over you know, it
just you know, it just has to be the right candidate.
(41:46):
A lot of times, the right timing. Uh. You know,
Arizona was primed for a change. Uh, Georgia was primed
for a change. Pennsylvania definitely was primed for a change.
So I mean, you know, Michigan you know, this is
the first real strong victory Michigan has had since the
(42:07):
unions have been weakened. It was like when the unions
were strong, Democrats could win all the time in Michigan.
But you know they because of all the stuff that
Republicans did government wise to weaken unions, places like Michigan
became competitive again. But now you know, you've got some
(42:28):
strong candidates running. Wisconsin was kind of a disappointment. We
got the governor reelected, but we didn't get Man de
la Barnes elected. So you know, it's just I mean,
and there's still tinges of I say tingins, but there's
still racism out there, and there's still discomfort with seeing
(42:50):
people of color being in these prominent positions. And until
we passed that, it's it's always going to be uphill battle.
I mean, I've I've I've like it's you know, I've
done it twice statewide in Mississippi. Uh, you know, we
had a guy who was an astrophysicist and a preacher
in Arkansas get beat by Sarah Huckabee Sanders. You know
(43:13):
what I'm saying. It was obviously clear who was the
most qualified and most intelligent candidate in that race, but
you know they went with Sarah and So because her
daddy was a government So, I mean, you know, it's
it's still it's still a mountain to climb for black
folks to get there, but we make progress. I mean,
(43:33):
four of the largest cities in America are now run
by black people, So you know, it's it's We've we've
got a black woman as a vice president, We've had
a black president, We've got black people in the Senate. Now,
even though you know some candidates should have won this time,
we still have at least three. Right, we've got Booker Warnock,
(43:59):
Tim Scott who's the Republican in the in the Senate.
So you know we're making progress.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Well, I think, you know, you talk about progress and
and and as African African American community certainly, but when
I think about politics in general, it's so disheartening at
this point. Many people are right for the picking for
(44:26):
a strong liberal because the right is too far right
and the left is too far left. I mean, there's
no reasoning anymore, and and everything seems to be such
a battle just to get basic service because they forget
they work for the people. So you know what advice
would you give to someone looking to run for office
(44:49):
in today's climate, there's a lot of mud slinging, an
eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. It's
just ugly, you know, And I know that people are
I heard you mentioned before that politics is pretty much
a blood bath at times, and we're watching right as
you know. I think about the Roman Stadium and we're
(45:09):
watching the gladiators go at it. But it doesn't make
us feel any more secure. So what advice would you
give to someone going into politics? Now? How do you
handle the mudslinging? What's the best approach to take? And
even if that approach causes you to lose.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Well, the best approach to take is to really be
you know, really have the pulse of the people that
you're trying to get to support you. I think if
you stay focused on issues that the average citizen gravitates
to and deliver a strong message, be credible, be be
(45:55):
sure of your convictions right, because the bottom line is
a vote is an act of trust. I trust you
with this vote to serve the best interest of the
community that you want to represent. And whether it's a state,
whether it's a district, or you know, have whatever boundary
(46:16):
or geographic or president even you, we're trusting that person
that we vote for to be the person that does
no harm and thinks about the next generation instead of
the next election. And so your message has to be
that way. And you know, don't get hung up on money,
(46:41):
don't get hung up on what the other side is doing.
Focus in on what you want to do and how
you want to get that message out. And I think
that if you if you stay with that basic foundation,
everything will follow in the place.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
It sounds like a clean approach. We just never see
that anymore. And it's really sad.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Well, records are fair game. If you've run against an
incumbent and they push the policy or whatever that you
think it's harmful, that's fair game to go after. When
you start talking about, you know, their kids and what
they did with their wives, you know that they cheat
(47:28):
on a test in college. When it gets to that point,
that's just pettitiness. But as long as it's about issues,
it's about voting records and all that stuff, that's fair game.
And that's that's really what the American people want to
see is a contrast so they can make an intelligent decision.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Sure sure, So let me ask you this, Will you
ever go back into politics? You know you're not too
old to run for president? Look at Papa jail in
forty five.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Well, you know, you never say never. I always look
at my life because I was able to be elected
at a young age, you know, I and I did.
I felt I did good work when I was there.
You know, people still let me come back to Mississippi
and say hi to me and feed me and all that.
(48:24):
You know, But it's the reality is is that, you know.
It's just it's just like when you say it's like
a sport. You know, athletes have their moment and then
they have to retire. So I don't know if I'm
past my moment. I don't know if I can make
a comeback per se. But you know, the podcast is
(48:48):
good therapy for me, and I'm able to still address
issues and I can address issues on my own own
terms that way, you know, But you never say never.
You never know, you know, with the knoledge, I have
the experience I have. If something avails itself that I'm
(49:09):
interested in, I might jump back out there.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Oh yeah, why not? You know, And you know, for
the record too, I want to let my listeners know
that I'm a veteran and no matter what happens, I
usually try to be to maintain a high level of
respect for whoever is in office, and so we affectionately
(49:35):
call President Biden Papa Joe in my house because he's
so old or he's I shouldn't say old, what he's
a mature president.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, I mean he'll say he's old, old.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Potus forty five. It's definitely old. I don't even know
why he announced the run again, because it's just it's
not listen, you already age and dog years when you're
in office. Yeah, I'm telling you it's I don't that
makes me nervous when people pass a certain age or
trying to do this. I think that should be a cutoff.
And I'm not trying to be funny. I just think
(50:17):
it's it's such a tremendous task.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Like I mean, well, the dynamics played out, you know,
the best person to counter Donald Trump and the chaos
he created was to have somebody that was like a
forty year veteran of politics. Somebody had been been the
vice president, somebody had been in the Senate for a
long time, that you know, could bring us back to
(50:44):
some sense of normalcy, right, yeah. True. You know it's like,
you know, the early prononctications, even people that are in
my pocket was like, yeah, he's probably too old to
be doing this, but you know what I'm saying, it
was the best option.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
He was a sobering option.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah, And so you know it's like in that case,
you know, age had his benefit in that that way.
But you know, it's very rare you're going to see
a John Kennedy or a Barack Obama. Right, It's very
rare that you have that lightning in a bottle in
a younger person to get at that national stage and
(51:25):
and and command the attention and get the support needed
to win that office. So you know, a lot of
times you're going to have older people that have been
engaged in the political process for a long time, even
if it was just at a local level, be in
(51:46):
a position where they can run. I mean, Pete Boodage
is you know, he's now the Transportation secretary, but he
ran for president. He was a mayor of a town.
You know. So it's like you know, when you get
you know, people respond to people who actually have had
the experience Donald Trump was a real anomalye and people
(52:09):
were like, well, we really want to send a message
about the system. We just gonna let somebody never ran
for anything else before. But you see what happens when
you do that, right. It's like, the law says that
you don't have to be a lawyer to be on
the Supreme Court. But can you imagine just average ordinary
people who've never picked up a law book being appointed
(52:30):
to make decisions about the Constitution of the United States.
I mean, you know, it's there's the romantic thing about
You can make a movie about some guy getting appointed
to be a Supreme Court justice, but in real life,
you want somebody to understand what law is that could actually.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Spell law right right exactly.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
So I mean, you know that's right.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Well, but here's an I'm sorry to interrupt you, but
I have to ask this question while we're in this vein. Well,
what are your thoughts about this? Do you ever think
we'll see a LATINX or an Asian president or African ever?
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
I mean, Kamla Harris is a heartbeat away literally from
being a president now and a lot or thinking if
Biden decides you know what, I'm not gonna do this again.
She's probably gonna be the front runner, you know. I
mean when you saw the Democratic primary when Biden was running,
(53:40):
it was the most diverse primary anybody ever seen in
America as far as people running for president. And it's
not necessarily all gonna be from the Democratic side. I mean,
you have people of Asian descent that like Nikki Haley,
you know, as a Republican.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
That's true. Yeah, and she because there was a rumor
that she might run, but I think she said she
wouldn't if forty five announced his candidacy. So I don't
know if she still stands by that, given that his
popularity has fallen dramatically. But that you're right about Haley, Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
So, I mean there are viable people now of all
ethnic backgrounds that are in the spotlight nationally. I mean
Omar Oman, the representative from Minnesota. I mean, she's a
Somali refugee, you know what I'm saying. Now, she's a
(54:44):
member of Congress. You got people from a Tria who
are serving in Congress in the United States. You know,
if Puerto Rico becomes a state, which may happen in
our lifetime then have an influx of Latino politicians that
(55:05):
you know have experienced uh that that are going to
get there. Plus you've got where you in Texas and
and uh Florida. So I mean the opportunity is there
now for people of all races uh to be in
a position. I mean we just talked about Buddhagets. I
(55:26):
mean he is a member of the LGBTQ community, right,
so we may see somebody from that community ascend to
the presidency in our lifetime. So you know that it's
it's why as long as we maintain the democracy, anything
is possible. If we go to what Trump and then
(55:47):
want and authoritarianism, it's a rap, you know.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Believe he said we should get rid of the Constitution.
I mean, that's just that should be treason.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
It should be It's like he has been allowed to
just you know, be the bull in the china shop
when it comes to the democratic process in the United States,
And it looks like the only way you're going to
stop him is if the judicial process kicks in and
(56:22):
he gets indicted and goes to jail. I think that's
the only way you can really stop him. But then
the movement that he's created. You know, you've got all
these wanna bees to say, well I can I can
assume to throwing boss if you're not available, you know.
And and so you know, the Santas and Florida is
(56:43):
the main one buying to be the new son King
as we call it. So you know, we'll see, we'll
see how I go. But to answer your question directly, yeah,
I can see somebody from the Latino community, somebody from
the aai Aapi community. I can't see somebody that's a
(57:06):
Native an indigenous being in We've got a cabinet member now,
we do congress woman out of Alaska. So yeah, you
know it can happen.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
It would be amazing to see, I mean, to see
things really heightened to that level of diversity. It just
would be amazing because that's what we are, right, We're
a great, big, old, beautiful toss salad. And so you know,
there are so many different opportunities there. But it does
(57:44):
matter who's in charge, and I think the diversity needs
to be seen at the highest level. And so we
shall see what happens.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (57:55):
I remember my grandfather when Obama came into office and
he cried. He said, I never thought I'd see this
in my lifetime, right, So I'm glad he was able
to experience that before he passed away. But yeah, it's
just kind of one of those things you think about
and after Obama then you think, oh, yeah, okay, we
(58:17):
may have a female president and but you know, it's
hard to get past that. Sometimes when people say Latino Asian,
you know, it's like really, yeah, you know, so it's
just would be interesting to see the next few years
how things pan out.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
Yeah, but I remember you were talking about the older generations.
Just remember now there are children who saw Barack Obama
be president. There are children that see Kamala Harris as
vice president, are seeing people that they can recognize and
(58:56):
identify being leaders in the United States Congress. So you know,
it's it's gonna happen. I mean, we've got a twenty
five year old and then Congress going in in January.
I mean, so yeah, people, young people are seeing that
(59:17):
they are opportunities. So as they become of age and
become voters, that's the impression they have and that's and
that's and that's what America is going to have to
deal with, is that those people are now saying it's
our turn and and they're going to be the best
options for people to vote.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
Yeah, oh yeah. It's definitely never going to be a
dull moment in politics. And you know that too, because
you have your podcast A Moment with Eric Fleming tell
the listeners how they can tune in and what it's
about and how they can connect.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
So it's a political podcast. There's a couple of things
that I stress. One, we're going to talk about it
from an African American perspective as opposed to a corporate
media perspective, right, and we're gonna have a conversation. We're
not going to have a confrontation. I'm a Democrat and
(01:00:17):
there's no going back for me on that. But if
you if you're a Republican or libertarian or Green Party
or whatever, and you want to come on the show,
we can have conversations about you know, about your viewpoints,
and really I try to convince those folks, convince my
(01:00:37):
people that are listening to support your positions, right right,
you know, So that's basically the gist of the show
is just to keep everybody informed. I try to get
people on because everything is political, right, and so it
doesn't matter what you talk abouts has it's it's a
(01:01:05):
footprint or a handprint on whatever you're trying to do.
And so if you're a nonprofit, you know you're talking
about your nonprofit. Well, you know, the government gives out
grants to folks. The biggest foundation in America is the
United States government. So you know, it's like everything that
we do in our life is based on politics. And
(01:01:30):
I always remind people, if you don't believe me, take
away those stop signs on the intersections and see what happens.
So it's just it's it's you know, So politics is
really the fiber outside of money. Politics is really the fiber.
And if you really look at it, politics controls dictates
(01:01:52):
about the money too.
Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Yes, I've met David Petraeus once and he told me,
if you ever want to know what's happening, just follow
the money, all the money, all the money. Well, Eric,
it's been such a pleasure as usual talking to you,
and we'll have to have you back for a part two,
(01:02:16):
part three, especially when it comes to hot politics. I
want to thank you so much for joining me tonight.
Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Well, it's an honor, Doctor to be on your show.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Yeah, I appreciate it too. What fun, what fun?
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
What fun?
Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Well, folks, that's a wrap for tonight. I want to
thank you for tuning in and as always, thank you
for being a team player. H
Welcome to Team Leadership Radio. That's t E E M. Train, Equipped,
empower and Mobilized Leadership. I'm your host, doctor Cecilia Martin,
and I have joined me tonight. Eric Robert Fleming. Eric
Fleming is an American politician who was a member of
(00:51):
the Mississippi House of Representatives and represented the seventy second
district for nearly a decade. Eric is also the former
director of Policy with the American Civil Liberties Union of
Mississippi and then later went on to become a Deputy
sheriff with the Fulton County Sheriff's Office in Georgia. Although
(01:12):
he no longer serves an office, Eric Fleming continues in
politics and is an advocate for the causes of African
Americans through his politically charged podcast entitled A Moment with
Eric Fleming. And I'm excited to have a few moments
with him here tonight. Welcome Eric, Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Hey dog, how you doing.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I'm doing lovely. You know it's a holiday season, are
you ready?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Oh yeah, yeah, buying gifts and just you know, just
got the whole whole holiday vibe going on right now.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yeah, oh yeah. It's a one full time year, I
tell you that much. So is it cold in Chicago
right now? You actually you grew up in Chicago, but
you're now in Georgia, right.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yes, and the answer is cold in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, it's a wicked cold in Chicago.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, that's that's a given. It's cold in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yes. Tell me what was it like growing up there
and what did your parents do for a living.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
So my dad did a lot of things, but he
was primarily a bus driver, UH for the Chicago Transit
Authority up there. And my mom, well, he was also
a police officer too, but most of his career has
been either you know, driving buses, either with the CTA
(02:49):
or with private companies. Right. And then my mom, she
was an educator. She was you remember the movie Cooley High. Yeah, yeah,
she actually taught at the real she was. She was
the cheerlead eight years and then she left, uh to
(03:13):
work for the Board of Health health educator for the
City of Chicago. So she did that for thirty some
years and then she retired and she passed away in
twenty thirteen.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Okay, okay, my goodness, Coolie High. Yeah, oh man, that's
a classic. So when you grew up in Chicago. Did
you like the cold? I mean for me when I
you know, I consulted there for a year, and yeah,
I went every month and at some point, you know,
(03:52):
when your eyelids start to freeze, You're like, God, why
are you mad at these people? It's a it's an
ungollly cold in Chicago. Go and I know people live
there and they raise they get raised there, But I
don't know how you grow up loving that type of weather.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Well, you don't love it, but you get used to
it because it's like, I mean, you know, people, that's
why house music is like popular in Chicago. It's got
because you had to dance. You had to dance that
we wait, I had to dance to get to the store.
I mean, it's cold. And fortunately, you know, growing up
(04:29):
on the south side of Chicago, you you didn't get
the full lake effect. Right the further east you went
toward them, the worst it got because that's where that
that Lake Michigan wind effect kicks in. And you know,
(04:50):
downtown you've got all the buildings, so you know that
when that you hit the right alley or right street,
that wind's gonna's gonna hit.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
You really really are so yeah, oh, it's gonna it's
gonna get you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, but that's the joke where we didn't have you know,
you never saw black people sitting in Soldier Field because
it is right on the lake, and it's like, no
way we sitting out there watching the bear and the
bears weren't really that good back then, so uh, it
wasn't good now, So we weren't going to be sitting
out there in that free you know, in the in
(05:26):
the cold to watch it blake. But it was a
was a great you know, aside from the winner, Chicago
was a great place. I say those twenty years, well
eighteen years that I lived there from sixty five to
eighty three, we're probably the best years to be a
(05:48):
black person in Chicago. You saw businesses, you know, you
had you had businesses throughout the history, but it was
like those eighteen years led to the first black mayor
we ever had that it was Haroah Washington, and you
could see that political power developed during that time. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
I read Michelle Obama's book and of course saw her documentary,
and she talks about life growing up on the South
Shot or in the South side of Chicago, and she
had the same sentiment. She loved it. There was community
and a sense of pride there and you know, just
(06:33):
hearing that your mom worked at Coolie High. I mean,
you see these things on TV and you're like, okay,
that was real. And your dad was a bus driver.
So how did you go from Chicago to Mississippi of
all places?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Well, Jackson State said, I didn't have to pay for
anything to go to college. That was the appeal. But
fortunately my dad is from Mississippi. Originally he was born
there and so he left, I guess when he was two,
and he grew up in the southern part of Illinois,
(07:13):
and but you know, still had relatives and stuff down there.
So you know, once I got used to the culture
shock of being uh a city boy, now I'm down
here in in in Mississippi, right, you know. And and
(07:36):
but Mississippi is really not as bad as it was portrayed.
And of course it was a different time then when
my dad was you know, born there. Uh, but it
it is not as bad as far as interacting with
people about stuff to do and all that. It's just
(07:58):
missisispp Ain't got no money. That's the biggest issue. Yeah,
I mean not you know, money not like Georgia or
not like Chicago. You know what I'm saying. It's like this,
you know, a lot of wealth there and and so people,
(08:18):
but people you know make it and you know, and
they do what they do. And uh, you know Jackson State,
you know, biased or unbiased however you want to look
at it. How I say it is one of the
best colleges in the nation, let alone at historically black college.
(08:41):
And it's right there in the heart of the heart
of the states. So you know, Mississippi is a good place.
It's you know, you just gotta you know, get used
to it and and you know, and then you know,
there's a history between Chicago and Mississippi. But a lot
(09:03):
of the people, the black people who live in Chicago
have roots in Mississippi as well as other parts of the South,
but primarily Mississippi. So yeah, so it's like, yeah, you know,
and that's that's when I when I used to give
speeches down there, I used to tell folks I was
from a little small town up north in Mississippi called Chicago,
(09:25):
and they.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, okay, so you honestly adjusted well because you ended
up getting in politics, held your office for nearly a decade,
I think nine years and some months. How did you
get into politics? Is it something that you aspired to do?
I mean, how did you make the transition from Jackson
(09:49):
from Chicago to Jackson State and now you're in politics.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Well, if you grow up in Chicago, politics is something
that you know, right. So my great aunt was my
main influence. Lady named Margie Spencer, and she never ran
for publical office. All she did was vote, but she
paid attention. So whenever she babysat mean, which is basically
(10:16):
every day while I was in school, it was like,
you know, I would sit down and watch the TV
with her and watching the news and all that, and
she would tell me who these particular people were. And
then it got the point where I started telling her
who these people were, right, and that My parents claimed
(10:38):
that I could read like when I was two, So
they bought me a set of in some medias and
my favorite section was the President of the United States.
And you know, looking back, I was drawn to the
pages because you had all these little headshots. You know,
(11:00):
I remember, You're fascinated with that, right, and You're like,
so I just got fascinated with the presidency, and you know,
I was learning all this stuff like who was the fattest,
you know, who served the longest, who or does I had?
You know, I was like a trivia buffer all that stuff.
That's what really kind of got me interested. I mean,
(11:23):
I was still young, so I liked baseball and meteorology.
I was I thought I would be a weather man
at one time. I mean just all, you know, just
being a kid, just enjoying stuff. But politics was always there.
And despite all the stuff I wanted to do, right,
(11:43):
play baseball, be a fireman, be a meteorologist, whatever, eventually
I wanted to be president. Okay, so that was kind
of my goal. And so my first political victory was
is my junior year, well really my sophomore year, but
(12:03):
it was we were running for junior class president, and
I was kind of considered more of a class clown
more than anything serious. But I gave this great speech
and they voted me in as president. So that was
my first political campaign.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Do you still remember the speech?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
No, I don't remember the speech word for word, but
I do remember the thing, okay, and real quick, what
happened was the class. You know, our sophomore class had
this stupid idea and I say that now, and I'm
really being nice to sell bumper stickers and windows decals
(12:52):
for cars, and it's like, we don't drive, you know
what I'm saying. It was like we take all of
us take public transportation. It was cool. It's like very
few of us drove, and especially with the gang situation around,
we definitely work on drive because be the one that's
bringing into our cars. You know, we really didn't have
a place to park either, but none of you know,
(13:14):
that's what they did. So we ended up losing money
out that deal. And so my campaign was, you know,
basically like we've got to be the only high school
class in America that's broke, you know what I'm saying.
And you know, I was just going in and I said,
we're not gonna you know, we're not gonna do crazy
stuff like that. We're gonna do stuff that makes that
(13:36):
we can make money off of. And our class shirts
are gonna be fly because you know, that was that
was the duty of the junior class to pick the
class shirt design for our senior year. So that was
I said, we're going to have the best class shirts
and all that. So, yeah, like I said, I didn't
remember I didn't, and I wasn't the only one that
(14:00):
ran on the theme about being broken.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
About being broke. Okay, okay, that's a good segue, because
inquiring minds want to know. This is a question I
really really wanted to ask you because many of us
are so curious and we don't understand, the general public
does not understand. Tell us how the money works in politics?
(14:23):
There are millions spent on candidates. Where does the money go?
Where we have an idea where it's coming from now,
because it's it's pretty much not a public knowledge to
some extent in some cases, but millions, I mean record
breaking millions. Where does the money go? And how do
(14:43):
you get it?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
So, just to highlight your point, we just had a
major runoff election here in Georgia for State Senate Raphael Warnock,
who won. Just for the four weeks between November eighth
and December to six, these fifty million.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Dollars, My goodness.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
That's over ten million dollars a week. When you break
it down, it's incredible. And they spend it. So what
you spend that on? Uh? The reason why, especially these
high profile profile races, they spend it on TV and
(15:33):
newspaper and radio advertising. Okay, television advertising is the most
expensive expenditure for a campaign. You just.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Come on, you think you spent fifty million dollars in
four weeks?
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, shourplus or excess leftover for something.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
No, because it's like, you know, they may have some
cash at hand, but it's not that much because the
television advertising is so high.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And it used to be a time because it was
the public airwaves, you didn't have to pay for campaign advertising.
But as TV needed advertising dollars to keep it free,
especially compete with cable, just start charging. And so when
(16:35):
you have a media market like Atlanta, it's going to
cost a lot of money. Fifty million dollars in Mississippi?
Would you would? You would blow the opposition away if
you have fifty million dollars in Mississippi, but in Atlanta
and the Georgia market, because you now only have Atlanta,
but you have Savannah, you have Columbus and they have
(16:58):
their own media thing. I think Augusta is considered a
media market too. You know, it's like you've got to
spend that money, and you got to spend money radio advertising.
It's cheap, but you know you have to you have
to buy a whole lot of ads. So the more
(17:19):
advertising that you buy, the more name reckon, Yeah, the more.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
You saturate the public with your thing, with your face, right. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
And then all those beautiful yard signs that you see
on the on the road and then people's yards. That's
campaign expenditure. People have gotten away from the bumper stickers now,
but you know a few campaigns still do that. You know,
just everything that you see, the T shirts, yeah, you know,
(17:51):
and then the people, the people out there saying, hey,
vote for so and so, vote for Eric. You know,
they gotta be paid. The word volunteer.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Is you know, it's not Yeah, I know it doesn't
exist anymore much. However, I volunteer for two campaigns, and
I know how grueling they can be, especially if you're
in the neighborhood and you're going door to door. One
was for a city council person, and the other was
(18:25):
the Obama campaign. The first I was a volunteer, the
first his first term.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And when I think about the money, okay, I'm thinking
in context of I've reviewed budgets for school districts that
maybe sixty six million dollars for the year. So I'm
thinking about a campaign using fifty million dollars in four weeks?
(18:54):
Are it does it? In any way? I have no
judgment about the matter. It's just I would love to
actually look at a campaign budget, a four week budget,
and just see the itemization of the fifty million dollars
for four weeks. But I guess it leaves a question
for the general public too, because we're sitting back on
(19:15):
the outside looking. Is that a misplacement of values of assets,
of time, of money or because you're you've been in
it so or is it always money well spent?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well? I don't know about money well spent. Is money
that has to be spent, right because if you want
to have the best presence, and even when you were
knocking on doors, see all that stuff that you were
handing out to those folks, that's that's paid out of
(19:51):
campaign funds. So you know, people, what about when they lose?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Eric, is it still money well spent even when they lose?
Because I guess you need the money to fight a
good fight. Huh.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
I mean yeah, I mean it's a fifty to fifty
proposition when you jump in there anyway, sure, true, And
so you have to go in with the reality that
you may not be the choice, but you've you've got
to put the best strategy together. And you don't necessarily
have to have all the money in the world to
run an effective campaign, but you know what money you
(20:28):
do have, you have to strategize the best way to
utilize it. And one of the things that we try
to teach people running for office is that you budget
backwards instead of forward. Right. You make sure you have
enough money on election day to make your last push.
(20:48):
You make sure that you've got your precincts covered with workers,
that you've got you know, signage, that you've got shirts
and all that stuff. And once you've got election day
set up, then you work your way back. Okay, so
you know, a month worths of advertising leading to election,
it's going to cost how much How you know how
(21:09):
many TV ads you want to buy? I mean, I
want to buy how many newspaper ads You've got to buy?
All that kind of stuff. But I mean, you know,
you got a trend. If you're running state wide, you
gotta pay for gas to get you around, if you
if you do like some of these campaigns and get
like buses and.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
All this kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, we had a situation where it's like I had,
you know, a candidate that had to go from one
under the state to the other, you know, doing campaign stops,
and we had to figure out how much it's going
to cost the charter a plane to get him to
(21:54):
where he's got to be or a helicopter.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
See, yeah, all.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
That all that stuff, you know, whereas like in Mississippi,
for example, you've got eighty two counties. In Georgia, you
got one hundred and fifty nine, and so you know
a lot of stuff. You know, it's centered around Atlanta,
but Atlanta's kind of north, right, there's a whole lot
of state south, and you've got two majors, Columbus and
(22:20):
Savannah South. So you've got to get making. You got
to get to all those spots. You know. Georgia's if
you if you just wanted to do college tours, it's
like twenty colleges in the state of Georgia alone. So
you know, it costs. It costs money to run an
(22:40):
effective campaign because and then you gotta pay staff, you
gotta pay a campaign manager. You know, a fundraiser basically
raises their own money, you know, but you know, but
all that stuff has to be paid. You know, you
got to pay people, You got to pay for polls
and all this other stuff. So there's if you're a vendor,
(23:05):
you know, political political vendor, it's like, you know, when
you have these congressional and presidential elections, you can make
it make a killing.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Oh gosh, yes, we're all in the wrong business. Yeah,
and you know, I want to stay there for a
second with Georgia because once again Georgia was in the
national spotlight. Okay, let's go back before we talk about
Warnock and Walker. Let's go back with all the progress
(23:39):
that Georgia has made overall, with Stacy Abrams at the
helm of that, you know, rocking the vote. Why don't
you think she won even at two tries.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
So we only got a few minutes to talk. So,
but bottom line is this is that, you know, the
first time was really close, and she got she you know,
it's like usually the first time you're running against somebody
and it's an open seat. Uh, you know, it's gonna
(24:17):
be close, especially in a state like Georgia, and it's
gonna be real competitive, and you don't really know what
the other side is going to do until they do
it and you just have to counter and all that
kind of stuff. So now a rematch four years later, Well, one,
the person she's running against now is the governor and
(24:42):
he kind of knows her playbook right, and so you know,
and to be honest, the legislature kind of helped, you know,
and trying to make it tougher for people to be
able to vote, especially people that more than life would
vote for her. Sure it didn't stop people from coming,
(25:04):
but there were a lot of dynamics at play, you
know when you strictly look at her versus him.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
But let me jump in, Let me jump in, because
we're gonna double dutch this because I know we don't
have much time. Yeah, So I mean, you and I
we already know we talk offline for hours, so we're
gonna we're gonna try to stay in this zone for
another thirty minutes and keep this an hour. But is
(25:37):
it true? So you live in Georgia now, and so
you know you're sort of you're still advocating in politics
and all of that good stuff. I it was my
understanding that some people felt that she was more of
a national figure, or maybe that she was somehow self
(26:00):
in her efforts in the second run. Is that what
you guys really perceived her to be uh in Georgia
or was that just some of the negative ads and
rhetoric that they were thrown around regarding her because she seemed,
I mean, she can't help that. She's a national figure
at this point. But I'm gonna hear I want to
(26:21):
hear you as a resident, not as the booth the
political eric. But what's the general perception of her in Georgia,
because I mean, she's admired far and why. But and
it baffles us. It seems bizarre that she wouldn't win
that second time around, especially because she got so close
the first time.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well as as if you if you look at her
from a residence viewpoint, there was there was some resentment
about about that, and and to Kemp's credit, he actually
ran an ad called Celebrity Stacy. And so you know,
so if she was white, that wouldn't have mattered as much.
(27:07):
But because she is black and you are in the South,
there is an element of people that you know, don't
cater to that. There's an element of people that don't
cater to a woman being thatcher and so she has
(27:28):
she has to navigate those two things. Being in the
South first of all, So as far as black people
were concerned, they were they were rumbling about she wasn't
connecting with black men. But on election day and through
the early voting process, black men showed up in high numbers,
(27:53):
and so, you know, as far as the black community
was concerned, there wasn't as much. Even though there were
some high profile black people that did not endorse her,
there was and you know, there's some backstory behind that,
but the reality was, as a whole, the black community
(28:15):
rallied around her. The issue was there were a lot
of people that felt that Kemp was more in tune
with what the people of Georgia wanted, especially during the pandemic.
You know, he fought to keep businesses open despite the
(28:39):
health warnings, and you know, I mean it's like a
lot of people died in Georgia because of that, but
a lot of businesses survived the pandemic because of that.
So wow, Yeah, So it was it was you know,
from a residence, it all depends on where you live.
If you want a president's perspective. From the black community,
(29:01):
she was fine. Uh, And they're the ones who kind
of put her on that pedestal, so they understood. But
you know, in the white community, there was some backlash.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
What do you think she's going next? What are you predicting?
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I don't know what she's gonna do. If I was
advising her, I tell her that she needs to get
that lawyer lawyer briefcase dusted off and go help Mark
Elias file these lawsuits.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
So she's she's a JD.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
She has a yeah, yeah, she's an attorney and she's
an accomplished author. She writes romance novels, novels under another pseudonym,
but yeah, yeah, true. But she's an attorney, and so
(29:53):
you know, hopefully she can get a judicial appointment or
ag appointment with a Democratic president down the line. But
the main thing that she's going to do is continue
to push the fight voter suppression laws and continue to
(30:20):
get people readish to vote. That organization that she set
up now is perpetual and they're going to be around
for a long time. So you know, I see her
still being involved in that fight. But you know, if
I was her, I'd be in a courtroom every time
they changed the voting law in the state. I'd be
(30:41):
flying out there trying to help that council, you know,
like being crumped everywhere, help people that are victims of
police brutality. She needs to be that same kind of
attorney going all over the country making sure that voting
voting rights are protected.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, and I'm surprised I'm missed that about her because
I was following her work for a little bit and
she did, of course, an amazing tech ted talk. But yeah,
that sounds like a job that she could handle.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Oh yeah, And you know, I'm gonna be looking up
her romance novels. I'm gonna try to figure out what
her pen name is.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Uses. But if you google it, they'll they'll tell you
what name she uses.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Okay, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
He's written several books.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Oh, that's a fun fact to know under a pen name. Okay,
I think a lot of folks gonna be looking that up. Now,
let's fast forward a little bit because this recent campaign
between war Noto and Walker. Okay, first, it was a
tight race, and that's shocking, right, considering the two candidates.
(31:55):
Do you think the residence of Georgia was so drawn
to Walker?
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Well, if you understand Herschel Walker's history, Herkschel Walker is
a legend in the state of Georgia prior to them
winning the national championship last year. He was on the
last team to win one. He was probably one of
the greatest college football players play. He's from Wrightsville, Georgia's
(32:22):
a little small town. And you know, so.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I get the sentiment, Eric, but come on, and once,
once he made himself public and kept continue to talk.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Well, it just came down to black and white, right.
It just came down to the fact that white folks
vote Republicans for the most part. Here. I mean, you know,
you you've got hockets, of course in Atlanta and in
the metro area of white support for Democrats. But throughout
(33:00):
is is that you got a lot of white folks
that vote Republicans. And you know, the Republicans thought, well,
you know, he's a football hero, maybe the black folks
will cross over over him. And it's like, but you're
running against the man who is the pastor of Martin
Luther King's church. You're not gonna beat that guy, you know.
(33:23):
And so it was like the preacher versus the football player,
and and you know, and and and black folks wanted
the preacher because you know, not only he has he
done a good job while the one two years that
he's been up there, but I mean standing, you know,
and listening to him talk and then listening to Herschel
(33:43):
talking about werewolves and vampires and all that, as like, no, man,
we gotta go to Warnock. So black folks, black folks
in Georgia upset, they're mad. And then they're mad because
you threw Hershel walk out there thinking that he was
going to attract us to vote for him. And then
the second thing is it was too close run off.
(34:08):
We had to go back and vote again, and then
and then it was and then it was nigga. I
mean Walker at one point on on December sixth was
ahead in the votes, and so so black folks in
Georgia are hot.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Wait a minute, not black folks in Georgia, black folks
all over America. Because at some point it was turning
into a circus like it was the greatest show on Earth.
It was like, are y'all seriously thinking that the intelligent
black people, beautiful black people of Georgia are going to
vote for him? And you know, I have no shade
(34:46):
to throw at the brother in the sense that Lord
knows he was trying like the little train that could. Okay,
but it's it's just it was. It's just remarkable how
at the cost of of anything. You know, It's like,
as long as he's a Republican and with a pulse,
and it's offensive. It should be offensive to Republicans too,
(35:10):
black or white, because he was clearly not the best fit,
in the best candidate, even he did not align with
their values. He was not prepared for this type of role,
but yet they were pushing him so strong, and like
you said, the fact that it got into a runoff
(35:31):
was startling to Americans all over the United States.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah, you had some libertarian candidate that was able to
get two percent of the vote and it's like, oh, oh,
you know so now. And Warnock's polling knew it because
he was running commercials, you know, knocking on people's doors,
bringing Thanksgiving dinner, talking about it. If you don't want
me to come to your Thanksgiving dinner, you don't need
to runoff, you know what I'm saying. But you know,
(35:58):
it happened. And like I said, black folks are hot here.
They may be hotwhere, but they're really hot here because
they're looking at they're looking at their white neighbors like, okay, all.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Right, yeah it was it was just such yeah it was.
It was hard to watch afar. So I can imagine how,
like you said, you guys feel living there. And I'm
so disappointed because I have no shame in telling folks
(36:31):
I've floated. I voted both blue or red at different
points in my life, and most of the time it
felt like, oh not most of the time, I shouldn't
say that, but sometimes once you narrowed it down, it
found it felt like the lesser of two evils, like
you know, which one am I gonna go with? Okay,
(36:52):
but this seemed to be a clear cutcase of what
would who was the most qualified, the most prepared, the
most knowledgeable, the better representation of any party at this point.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
You know, but it's but it's but it's deeper than that.
It shows the real divide in America we are, and
and the fact that you know, in the in the
Democrat Party, we used to have a saying that you know,
we'll vote for a yellow dog if it's a Democrat,
and so we actually used to have a yellow Dog
Democrats club, right, So I mean, you know, the partisan
(37:33):
thing is nothing new. But it's like it really took
a turn. And then see Donald Trump really was had
his hands on Herschel Walker and they've had a history, uh,
you know, because Herschel was like the first player he
drafted when he owned the New Jersey Generals, so they've
had for a long time, and he really was the catalyst.
(37:57):
So the Republicans hands were kind of tied now. They
were that there was at least one qualified black candidate
that ran in the Republican primary, but because he didn't have
Donald Trump's blessing, he wasn't even in the conversation. So
it was Herschel against everybody else who was trying to
show how Trump and they were. But that was the
(38:18):
guy that Donald Trump wanted, So the Republicans went with that.
And you know, in the South and well, I guess
you can say in Arizona, in some places out west,
Trump is like still revered and despite everything that we
see on the news, he's still a revered figure. And
(38:41):
so when he put his anointing on Herschel, that pretty
much was all he needed to get the domination and
then you know carry over into the general election.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
But yeah, to him often as the kingmaker Woo Trump.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah, well, you know the attempt at Kingmaker. Now, he
pulled it off in Ohio with JD. Vance, but he
publicly humiliated Vance and Vans had to eat that crow
to get that endorsement. But you know, it didn't work
with doctor Oz, it didn't work with Blake Masters in Arizona.
(39:21):
You know, it didn't work. It didn't work with a
lot of other places. As a matter of fact, a
lot of those places flipped. And so what Donald Trump
has done is that, you know, to the you know,
to the chagrin or discomfort of the Republicans, is that
(39:42):
he's put him in a box and and and he's
made states that have been traditionally Republican more competitive. Georgia
is now competitive, Arizona is now competitive competitive, Pennsylvania is
now competitive, you know. So it's like in Ohio, I
mean Vance, but he didn't went a bout that much.
So it's like those states now have become battle of
(40:05):
the ground states even more so. And the shock was Florida,
how lopsided it was there. But you know, I mean
it is what it is. I think that until we
get a lot of that element out of the Republican conversation,
(40:26):
we'll start getting more qualified candidates on both sides. The
Democrats did a real good job running qualified candidates all
the way down the ticket. It's just that, you know,
in certain parts of the country it doesn't matter, and
and and so you know, when you've got that.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Mind is even you know, we were kind of shocked about,
you know, how bad Beto laws.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah, it was that was his third attempt.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Well, I mean that was his Yeah, I think it
was second attempt for governor. Maybe I don't know, but
I mean Beto hopefully, Yeah, he may end up getting
because he ran for the Senate and he ran for president. Yep.
But you know, it was like, you know, Beato is
(41:25):
a good guy, but you know, he obviously is not
the guy that can get that crossover vote right in Texas.
He gets the Democratic base with no problem. But you know,
winning a state like winning it over you know, it
just you know, it just has to be the right candidate.
(41:46):
A lot of times, the right timing. Uh. You know,
Arizona was primed for a change. Uh, Georgia was primed
for a change. Pennsylvania definitely was primed for a change.
So I mean, you know, Michigan you know, this is
the first real strong victory Michigan has had since the
(42:07):
unions have been weakened. It was like when the unions
were strong, Democrats could win all the time in Michigan.
But you know they because of all the stuff that
Republicans did government wise to weaken unions, places like Michigan
became competitive again. But now you know, you've got some
(42:28):
strong candidates running. Wisconsin was kind of a disappointment. We
got the governor reelected, but we didn't get Man de
la Barnes elected. So you know, it's just I mean,
and there's still tinges of I say tingins, but there's
still racism out there, and there's still discomfort with seeing
(42:50):
people of color being in these prominent positions. And until
we passed that, it's it's always going to be uphill battle.
I mean, I've I've I've like it's you know, I've
done it twice statewide in Mississippi. Uh, you know, we
had a guy who was an astrophysicist and a preacher
in Arkansas get beat by Sarah Huckabee Sanders. You know
(43:13):
what I'm saying. It was obviously clear who was the
most qualified and most intelligent candidate in that race, but
you know they went with Sarah and So because her
daddy was a government So, I mean, you know, it's
it's still it's still a mountain to climb for black
folks to get there, but we make progress. I mean,
(43:33):
four of the largest cities in America are now run
by black people, So you know, it's it's We've we've
got a black woman as a vice president, We've had
a black president, We've got black people in the Senate. Now,
even though you know some candidates should have won this time,
we still have at least three. Right, we've got Booker Warnock,
(43:59):
Tim Scott who's the Republican in the in the Senate.
So you know we're making progress.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
Well, I think, you know, you talk about progress and
and and as African African American community certainly, but when
I think about politics in general, it's so disheartening at
this point. Many people are right for the picking for
(44:26):
a strong liberal because the right is too far right
and the left is too far left. I mean, there's
no reasoning anymore, and and everything seems to be such
a battle just to get basic service because they forget
they work for the people. So you know what advice
would you give to someone looking to run for office
(44:49):
in today's climate, there's a lot of mud slinging, an
eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. It's
just ugly, you know, And I know that people are
I heard you mentioned before that politics is pretty much
a blood bath at times, and we're watching right as
you know. I think about the Roman Stadium and we're
(45:09):
watching the gladiators go at it. But it doesn't make
us feel any more secure. So what advice would you
give to someone going into politics? Now? How do you
handle the mudslinging? What's the best approach to take? And
even if that approach causes you to lose.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
Well, the best approach to take is to really be
you know, really have the pulse of the people that
you're trying to get to support you. I think if
you stay focused on issues that the average citizen gravitates
to and deliver a strong message, be credible, be be
(45:55):
sure of your convictions right, because the bottom line is
a vote is an act of trust. I trust you
with this vote to serve the best interest of the
community that you want to represent. And whether it's a state,
whether it's a district, or you know, have whatever boundary
(46:16):
or geographic or president even you, we're trusting that person
that we vote for to be the person that does
no harm and thinks about the next generation instead of
the next election. And so your message has to be
that way. And you know, don't get hung up on money,
(46:41):
don't get hung up on what the other side is doing.
Focus in on what you want to do and how
you want to get that message out. And I think
that if you if you stay with that basic foundation,
everything will follow in the place.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
It sounds like a clean approach. We just never see
that anymore. And it's really sad.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Well, records are fair game. If you've run against an
incumbent and they push the policy or whatever that you
think it's harmful, that's fair game to go after. When
you start talking about, you know, their kids and what
they did with their wives, you know that they cheat
(47:28):
on a test in college. When it gets to that point,
that's just pettitiness. But as long as it's about issues,
it's about voting records and all that stuff, that's fair game.
And that's that's really what the American people want to
see is a contrast so they can make an intelligent decision.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Sure sure, So let me ask you this, Will you
ever go back into politics? You know you're not too
old to run for president? Look at Papa jail in
forty five.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Well, you know, you never say never. I always look
at my life because I was able to be elected
at a young age, you know, I and I did.
I felt I did good work when I was there.
You know, people still let me come back to Mississippi
and say hi to me and feed me and all that.
(48:24):
You know, But it's the reality is is that, you know.
It's just it's just like when you say it's like
a sport. You know, athletes have their moment and then
they have to retire. So I don't know if I'm
past my moment. I don't know if I can make
a comeback per se. But you know, the podcast is
(48:48):
good therapy for me, and I'm able to still address
issues and I can address issues on my own own
terms that way, you know, But you never say never.
You never know, you know, with the knoledge, I have
the experience I have. If something avails itself that I'm
(49:09):
interested in, I might jump back out there.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Oh yeah, why not? You know, And you know, for
the record too, I want to let my listeners know
that I'm a veteran and no matter what happens, I
usually try to be to maintain a high level of
respect for whoever is in office, and so we affectionately
(49:35):
call President Biden Papa Joe in my house because he's
so old or he's I shouldn't say old, what he's
a mature president.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
Yeah, I mean he'll say he's old, old.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
Potus forty five. It's definitely old. I don't even know
why he announced the run again, because it's just it's
not listen, you already age and dog years when you're
in office. Yeah, I'm telling you it's I don't that
makes me nervous when people pass a certain age or
trying to do this. I think that should be a cutoff.
And I'm not trying to be funny. I just think
(50:17):
it's it's such a tremendous task.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Like I mean, well, the dynamics played out, you know,
the best person to counter Donald Trump and the chaos
he created was to have somebody that was like a
forty year veteran of politics. Somebody had been been the
vice president, somebody had been in the Senate for a
long time, that you know, could bring us back to
(50:44):
some sense of normalcy, right, yeah. True. You know it's like,
you know, the early prononctications, even people that are in
my pocket was like, yeah, he's probably too old to
be doing this, but you know what I'm saying, it
was the best option.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
He was a sobering option.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah, And so you know it's like in that case,
you know, age had his benefit in that that way.
But you know, it's very rare you're going to see
a John Kennedy or a Barack Obama. Right, It's very
rare that you have that lightning in a bottle in
a younger person to get at that national stage and
(51:25):
and and command the attention and get the support needed
to win that office. So you know, a lot of
times you're going to have older people that have been
engaged in the political process for a long time, even
if it was just at a local level, be in
(51:46):
a position where they can run. I mean, Pete Boodage
is you know, he's now the Transportation secretary, but he
ran for president. He was a mayor of a town.
You know. So it's like you know, when you get
you know, people respond to people who actually have had
the experience Donald Trump was a real anomalye and people
(52:09):
were like, well, we really want to send a message
about the system. We just gonna let somebody never ran
for anything else before. But you see what happens when
you do that, right. It's like, the law says that
you don't have to be a lawyer to be on
the Supreme Court. But can you imagine just average ordinary
people who've never picked up a law book being appointed
(52:30):
to make decisions about the Constitution of the United States.
I mean, you know, it's there's the romantic thing about
You can make a movie about some guy getting appointed
to be a Supreme Court justice, but in real life,
you want somebody to understand what law is that could actually.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Spell law right right exactly.
Speaker 2 (52:53):
So I mean, you know that's right.
Speaker 1 (52:56):
Well, but here's an I'm sorry to interrupt you, but
I have to ask this question while we're in this vein. Well,
what are your thoughts about this? Do you ever think
we'll see a LATINX or an Asian president or African ever?
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
I mean, Kamla Harris is a heartbeat away literally from
being a president now and a lot or thinking if
Biden decides you know what, I'm not gonna do this again.
She's probably gonna be the front runner, you know. I
mean when you saw the Democratic primary when Biden was running,
(53:40):
it was the most diverse primary anybody ever seen in
America as far as people running for president. And it's
not necessarily all gonna be from the Democratic side. I mean,
you have people of Asian descent that like Nikki Haley,
you know, as a Republican.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
That's true. Yeah, and she because there was a rumor
that she might run, but I think she said she
wouldn't if forty five announced his candidacy. So I don't
know if she still stands by that, given that his
popularity has fallen dramatically. But that you're right about Haley, Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
So, I mean there are viable people now of all
ethnic backgrounds that are in the spotlight nationally. I mean
Omar Oman, the representative from Minnesota. I mean, she's a
Somali refugee, you know what I'm saying. Now, she's a
(54:44):
member of Congress. You got people from a Tria who
are serving in Congress in the United States. You know,
if Puerto Rico becomes a state, which may happen in
our lifetime then have an influx of Latino politicians that
(55:05):
you know have experienced uh that that are going to
get there. Plus you've got where you in Texas and
and uh Florida. So I mean the opportunity is there
now for people of all races uh to be in
a position. I mean we just talked about Buddhagets. I
(55:26):
mean he is a member of the LGBTQ community, right,
so we may see somebody from that community ascend to
the presidency in our lifetime. So you know that it's
it's why as long as we maintain the democracy, anything
is possible. If we go to what Trump and then
(55:47):
want and authoritarianism, it's a rap, you know.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
Believe he said we should get rid of the Constitution.
I mean, that's just that should be treason.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
It should be It's like he has been allowed to
just you know, be the bull in the china shop
when it comes to the democratic process in the United States,
And it looks like the only way you're going to
stop him is if the judicial process kicks in and
(56:22):
he gets indicted and goes to jail. I think that's
the only way you can really stop him. But then
the movement that he's created. You know, you've got all
these wanna bees to say, well I can I can
assume to throwing boss if you're not available, you know.
And and so you know, the Santas and Florida is
(56:43):
the main one buying to be the new son King
as we call it. So you know, we'll see, we'll
see how I go. But to answer your question directly, yeah,
I can see somebody from the Latino community, somebody from
the aai Aapi community. I can't see somebody that's a
(57:06):
Native an indigenous being in We've got a cabinet member now,
we do congress woman out of Alaska. So yeah, you
know it can happen.
Speaker 1 (57:21):
It would be amazing to see, I mean, to see
things really heightened to that level of diversity. It just
would be amazing because that's what we are, right, We're
a great, big, old, beautiful toss salad. And so you know,
there are so many different opportunities there. But it does
(57:44):
matter who's in charge, and I think the diversity needs
to be seen at the highest level. And so we
shall see what happens.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (57:55):
I remember my grandfather when Obama came into office and
he cried. He said, I never thought I'd see this
in my lifetime, right, So I'm glad he was able
to experience that before he passed away. But yeah, it's
just kind of one of those things you think about
and after Obama then you think, oh, yeah, okay, we
(58:17):
may have a female president and but you know, it's
hard to get past that. Sometimes when people say Latino Asian,
you know, it's like really, yeah, you know, so it's
just would be interesting to see the next few years
how things pan out.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
Yeah, but I remember you were talking about the older generations.
Just remember now there are children who saw Barack Obama
be president. There are children that see Kamala Harris as
vice president, are seeing people that they can recognize and
(58:56):
identify being leaders in the United States Congress. So you know,
it's it's gonna happen. I mean, we've got a twenty
five year old and then Congress going in in January.
I mean, so yeah, people, young people are seeing that
(59:17):
they are opportunities. So as they become of age and
become voters, that's the impression they have and that's and
that's and that's what America is going to have to
deal with, is that those people are now saying it's
our turn and and they're going to be the best
options for people to vote.
Speaker 1 (59:36):
Yeah, oh yeah. It's definitely never going to be a
dull moment in politics. And you know that too, because
you have your podcast A Moment with Eric Fleming tell
the listeners how they can tune in and what it's
about and how they can connect.
Speaker 2 (59:54):
So it's a political podcast. There's a couple of things
that I stress. One, we're going to talk about it
from an African American perspective as opposed to a corporate
media perspective, right, and we're gonna have a conversation. We're
not going to have a confrontation. I'm a Democrat and
(01:00:17):
there's no going back for me on that. But if
you if you're a Republican or libertarian or Green Party
or whatever, and you want to come on the show,
we can have conversations about you know, about your viewpoints,
and really I try to convince those folks, convince my
(01:00:37):
people that are listening to support your positions, right right,
you know, So that's basically the gist of the show
is just to keep everybody informed. I try to get
people on because everything is political, right, and so it
doesn't matter what you talk abouts has it's it's a
(01:01:05):
footprint or a handprint on whatever you're trying to do.
And so if you're a nonprofit, you know you're talking
about your nonprofit. Well, you know, the government gives out
grants to folks. The biggest foundation in America is the
United States government. So you know, it's like everything that
we do in our life is based on politics. And
(01:01:30):
I always remind people, if you don't believe me, take
away those stop signs on the intersections and see what happens.
So it's just it's it's you know, So politics is
really the fiber outside of money. Politics is really the fiber.
And if you really look at it, politics controls dictates
(01:01:52):
about the money too.
Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
Yes, I've met David Petraeus once and he told me,
if you ever want to know what's happening, just follow
the money, all the money, all the money. Well, Eric,
it's been such a pleasure as usual talking to you,
and we'll have to have you back for a part two,
(01:02:16):
part three, especially when it comes to hot politics. I
want to thank you so much for joining me tonight.
Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Well, it's an honor, Doctor to be on your show.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Yeah, I appreciate it too. What fun, what fun?
Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
What fun?
Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
Well, folks, that's a wrap for tonight. I want to
thank you for tuning in and as always, thank you
for being a team player. H
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