November 15, 2022 • 60 mins
High-pressure work environments can be a great proving ground for building character, growing leadership, and innovation. Dr. Lois started in the lab with Johns Hopkins Medicine and now serves on a prestigious board of directors. It all began with a courageous conversation and the choice to stick with one organization for 20 years. Her choices turned into a flourishing mentorship and maxed-out levels of promotions! Dr. Anderson admonishes us to balance this new culture of the need to be liked with the demand to be effective, especially now that employers are expected to provide "a work experience," not just a job.
Dr. Lois Anderson, DSL, MA, CM, is a seasoned leader, consultant, facilitator, and coach. As an Organization Development Consultant with the University of Maryland Medical Systems, she provides training and consulting services in leadership development, team alignment, and strategic objectives- including change management. As an independent contractor, she has been privileged to offer workshops, coaching, and consulting services to individuals and organizations of different sizes and scopes, including private, non-profit, faith-based, and government organizations. With over 20 years of experience as a leader with Johns Hopkins Medicine, Lois gained extensive expertise in multi-stakeholder processes and collaborative systems change.
As the founder and CEO of Polished Arrow Inc., she serves as a "leader to leaders," providing development, connection, and accountability to leaders. She has a Doctorate in Strategic Leadership and a Master's Degree in Organizational Leadership. She is regarded for her ability to connect with leaders at every level of the organization.
Dr. Lois Anderson, DSL, MA, CM, is a seasoned leader, consultant, facilitator, and coach. As an Organization Development Consultant with the University of Maryland Medical Systems, she provides training and consulting services in leadership development, team alignment, and strategic objectives- including change management. As an independent contractor, she has been privileged to offer workshops, coaching, and consulting services to individuals and organizations of different sizes and scopes, including private, non-profit, faith-based, and government organizations. With over 20 years of experience as a leader with Johns Hopkins Medicine, Lois gained extensive expertise in multi-stakeholder processes and collaborative systems change.
As the founder and CEO of Polished Arrow Inc., she serves as a "leader to leaders," providing development, connection, and accountability to leaders. She has a Doctorate in Strategic Leadership and a Master's Degree in Organizational Leadership. She is regarded for her ability to connect with leaders at every level of the organization.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:29):
Good evening. Welcome to Team Leadership Radio. That's t E
e M. Train, equip, empower and Mobilize leadership. I'm your
host's doctor, Cecilia Martin, and we're moving into the holiday season, y'all,
and it sure feels like it. I hope you're keeping
(00:51):
warm wherever you are. Thank you for tuning in on
this cold, cold evening I have with me to doctor
Lois Anderson. She is a season leader, consultant, facilitator and coach,
and as an organization development consultant with the University of
(01:12):
Maryland Medical Systems, she provides training and consulting services in
leadership development, team alignment, and strategic objectives including change management.
As an independent contractor, she has been privileged to offer workshops, coaching,
and consulting services to individuals and organizations of different sizes
(01:35):
and scopes. With over twenty years of experience as a
leader with Johns Hopkins Medical on Johns Hopkins Medicine, I
should say doctor Anderson gained extensive expertise in multi stakeholder processes.
She is a founder and CEO of Polished Arrow Incorporated,
(01:56):
and as a Doctorate in Strategic Leadership and Masters in
Organizational leadership. Welcome to the show, Doctor Anderson.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
My good evening, Doctor Martin. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Oh I'm so excited to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
It's good to be here. Good to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I mean, you a VIP. I tell you.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
To somebody, I'm a very important person.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I hope you a VIP, so a whole lot of persons.
I know that for sure. Oh my gosh, how you
dealing with this cold weather? I can't take it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, this is not my favorite time of year. Yeah,
my least favorite season. And so I'm adjusting. We had
a twenty degree drop in the night, yeah, in like
twenty four hours. So yeah, it's it's chili.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, it's a bit much for me. And you know,
I was born and raised in Texas, so I'm good
with going to the beach, you know, at Christmas and
Thanksgiving and stuff like that. But shorts on and flip flops.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
But you spent a lot of time in some other
areas I did. I did.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I see what a little bit better you would think, like,
after like what seventeen years on the East Coast, you
think I'll be used to it, But I never got
used to it. I hated to get gas. I hated
to go to the grocery store. I didn't want to
leave my house to the car, or from the work
building to the car. It was too much, that cold.
(03:36):
I never ever got used to it.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, it's pretty serious. It definitely shuts down all extra activity.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, it's nothing an extra needs to be going on.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
That's the extra, right, only the necessities.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Oh my gosh, oh my goodness. So let's jump in.
So you have spent twenty years with Johns Hopkins Medicine. Yeah,
that's a long time and you're still young.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I mean, my goodness, it feels like it was a lifetime.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah. Well you went from tell me about your journey
from working in the lab to becoming senior quality and
Innovation project administrator.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the leap.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You're absolutely right. I started at Johns Hoppiens as an
electron microscopy technician.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Wait, electron micoscropy, mycroscopy? Mycroscopy? Is that right?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Okay, good, all right.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
See I started as an electron microscopy technician working in
pathology and had experienced doing that before I came to Hopkins,
and so that was the door that really opened up
to me and presented the opportunity to me to become
part of the Hopkins family. And so I took that
(05:08):
position at Hopkins and stayed in that position for about
eighteen months before being promoted to the laboratory manager at
that time, and it was an interesting transition. I think
within three months of me being there, my supervisor was
no longer with the organization and I had not because
(05:32):
I was so new, I had not met the administrative
leaders for the department. And I remember sitting down one
day and just saying, I need to send an email
introduce myself and let them know that I'm at risk
of leaving this organization a good leadership, just like that,
just like that, And that is exactly what happened. That's
(05:55):
how I introduced myself, and that sort of opened the
door to dialogue about the absence of leadership in the
department at the time and a skill set that I
was not hired for but possessed when I came to Hopkins.
Come from an organization where I had had a leadership role,
(06:17):
and you know, could point back to different things that
had happened in my life, even in growing up in
the church, where I always sort of had leadership experience
and brought that with me to Hopkins. I had come
from an organization that had a state of the art
(06:38):
sort of program around the work that we were doing,
which at that time was strictly renal pathology, and so
I just had this skill set that was something that
the organization very much needed and it opened the door
to me being able to move into a leadership role
relatively quickly. They were also in the middle of trans
(07:00):
positioning a huge move of the lab to a brand
new building and again lost leadership in the middle of that.
So that meant me picking that project up in the middle,
carrying it forward, all of which I did before being
promoted into the manager's role.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Okay, so that explains your expertise and multi stakeholder processes
and what is it change management?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yes, I did it. I experienced it as a grassroots
participant very early in my career, and so that sort
of opened that door to leadership and then from there
I just continue to have more and more leadership responsibility
over the years that I was with Hopkins. I had
(07:50):
at the time that I transitioned to the senior Quality
and Innovation Project administrative role, I had been a senior
clinical manager at that point for probably about thirteen years. Really, yeah,
I had been in a senior clinical role for about
thirteen years each, you know, just having progressive responsibility added
(08:11):
to my role. So by that time I was managing
three different labs. I was the administrator for two clinical
departments and had pretty much maxed out my advance meant
opportunities from that role. My administrator at the time is
very candid with me that there really wasn't much more
(08:32):
she could give me to grow unless she retired, and
she wasn't quite ready to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Wow, what a conversation. You're maxed out. I have nowhere
to put you except for in my role, and I
have no intentions of retiring.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
So that was the essence of the conversation. Wow, that
was the essence of the conversation. She had given me
more opportunity than I could have ever asked for within
the organization. And she was that person that I emailed
that day in the lab to say, listen, I'm leaving
(09:07):
this organization due to a lack of effective leadership. And
so she and I built a rapport over the year.
She was a phenomenal mentor to me. She opened the
door to many opportunities that sort of extended beyond the
scope of what my job was. So I got to
travel the country on behind half of Hopkins, I'm doing
(09:28):
training for other laboratory management leaders. It was a wonderful
time and I actually appreciated all of the opportunities for
growth she had given me. But she was maxed out
and so was I in that role.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Right, So what happened next?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Then?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Did she retire or.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
She retired after I transitioned to the senior Quality and
Innovation project administrator role, so that meant me leaving clinical
work and moving more into to a quality and safety
role at the organization. So by then I had done
my master's in organizational leadership and was looking for an
opportunity to move into more administrative role that was sort
(10:13):
of on the track for executive leadership. And this opportunity
to become part of the Armstrong Institute for Patient Safety
and Quality, which was the first of its kind in
the nation at the time and it's still a model
for other patient safety quality institutes in the nation and
has national recognition. A position opened up and it was
(10:38):
perfect timing for me to transition into something that was
focused less on the clinical aspects of the work, but
more or establishing quality and safety standards for patient care
clinical operations within the hospital.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay, so I hear you saying you're talking about so
starting at a place where you were entry level well
pretty much, and then taking having the courage to say
very early on, listen, this isn't working. Most people wouldn't
have even taken the risk in your role to say that,
(11:12):
because you know, they're so concerned about job security, you know,
and all of those things. But I hear you saying
that you had a very what I call courageous conversation
early on which panned out for your good. I hear
you talking about the person that you sent the email
to then becomes your mentor, and you begin to grow
(11:34):
and develop to such an extent that you actually max
out of your role. Not not to mention the promotions
and uh, I'm sure raises and salary along the way.
That's that's just that's just amazing to me, you know,
you know a lot of a lot of I'm glad
to hear you say that too about Johns Hopkins Medicine
(11:56):
because I feel like I had a great experience with
Johns Hopkins University when I worked there, and to some
extent I wish I had stayed longer. But in my
role as a senior facilitator, we traveled. There were only
three of us, maybe two at the time, travel monthly,
you know, if not every two weeks, and you know,
(12:18):
did that for three years straight. And I'm wondering, though,
I do sometimes wonder what would have happened if I
had stayed because it was such it was such a
great proving ground, like you said as well, you know,
and they they really seem to have this culture where
if you can think of it, they'll let you create it.
If you can think of it, they'll let you work
(12:40):
it out. And so but in today's culture, many people
don't stand on the job very long. And I get why.
There's so many motivating factors that keep people where they are,
or you know, things that prompt them to leave. I
think it's more of the culture of the younger generation.
But what are some factors that kept you at Johns
(13:02):
Hopkins Medicine for twenty years?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I think I think you stated it well. Johns Hopkins
was an incredibly innovative environment right it was cutting. It
was on the cutting edge of medicine. Lots of intrical
procedures were developed there. I can recall times when we
were doing something and it was the first time it
(13:27):
was being done in the country. Like I remember working
the day that the first multi transplant renal transplant happened
and there were five people in the r at one time,
literally getting getting transplants all at one time. But it
was that it was an excellent place for that kind
of innovation and cutting edge opportunities, and for me it
(13:51):
was a dream job. I moved to Maryland. I'm originally
from New Jersey and I moved to it.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
You can hear the accent, girl.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But it was it was my dream job. I moved
to Maryland for the opportunity to work at Johns Hopkins,
which at that time was number one in the country,
and it was just the environment was very nurturing and welcoming.
I think when you talk about people not wanting to
stay in environment in companies very long these days, I
(14:29):
think it has a lot to do with the culture
of the organization. Right There is something about the culture
of this generation which we could talk about, but I
think a lot of it also has to do with
the culture of the organization itself, and when you're in
an environment that does not provide you with opportunities for growth,
(14:50):
or if you're looking for opportunities for growth and can't
get those opportunities where you are, and people are much
more inclined now to move on. And for me, Hopkins
was a place where I was being consistently presented with
opportunities to grow and to develop.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Oh, for sure, I think gone are the days of
the status quo. I think, you know, there are some
bureaucracies in place that are necessary and have to stay
in place. You know, when you think about, you know,
as a doctor in organizational leadership, there are certain types
of organizations and a bureaucracy is here to stay for
several reasons. I mean, the Army is a bureaucracy and
(15:28):
to be in place. But I will tell you when
I was at Hopkins University, it was one of the
best proving grounds I've ever had. It was one of
the best culturally stimulating, you know, intellectually stimulating environments that
I've ever been in. I felt like it gave me
(15:50):
a great cornerstone and a springboard for the rest of
my career, if not life. In so many respects, and
again though the travel was too much if you have
a family, you know, I went to Hawaii for a week.
That was wonderful. When I came back, my six month
old baby was looking at me like I was crazy.
(16:11):
She was like, Eve, I don't really know who you
are right now. But so but I wonder, though, are
there any regrets for staying at one agency for so long?
Are there any cons to that? Career wise?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I think that there are some potential cons to stay
in an organization for so long. You know, you talked
about Hopkins being the environment that sort of became the
cornerstone or laid a lot of the foundation for your
development there after where you went in your career, and
I will definitely say that was the case for me
at Hopkins. I think back to my development as a
(16:52):
leader at Hopkins. I mean, I recognized the need for
effective leadership early, but I didn't necessarily have the skills
at that time to know exactly what effective leadership looked like.
I just knew I would be getting it, and so
Hopkins became a great environment for me to learn what
effective leadership looked like. Even when I think about people
(17:15):
that I'm mentoring now I will tell them the days
I experienced at Hopkins were character building days for me
as a leader, and I got that foundation through those
experience in those high pressure, high pressure environment you know,
where there is a demand to function at a certain level,
(17:36):
and when you have a responsibility for others that are
likewise expected to function at that level, it builds something
in you if you allow it to. And so I
just wanted to underscore that about Hopkins as an environment
for me, I don't regret it. I think there are
some cons to it. Again, depending upon the culture of
the organization. I will say that for me, which was
(17:58):
what ultimately led to my transition out of Hopkins, is
that sometimes when you have been immersed in a culture
and in an organization for so long, you develop blind
spots to opportunities and developments that may be happening outside
of the context that you're experiencing.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
That's the truth. That's the truth. People get what do
you call it? It's almost like they begin to live
in like a career bubble, you know, where they don't
really know how to function in a different environment.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
If that's fair to say it is it is, Yeah,
you develop blind spots. You lose your ability to, like
you said, thrive and function in different environments. And so
that is definitely one of the downsides to spending so
much time in a particular organization, especially if you are
(18:59):
not in an organization where you're growing and developing. So
I transitioned through a number of different roles over the
years that I was there. I don't know if I
had not had that opportunity, if I would have been
able to stay that long.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, And it makes a difference because I remember leaving
Hoppkins and going to other places, and you know, I'm
looking at them like, y'all haven't upgraded on this yet,
And I mean, can't we just create this? I mean
because they always found a way to say yes, no
matter how our land is, your ideas seemed or complex.
You know, we have a think tank and make it happen.
(19:36):
You know, they never they always found a way to
say yes. So it does almost it makes it hard
when you go someplace else and you're like, well, y'all
still using this outdated process.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
And you do not have the same experience. It is
very challenging.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yes, now you are an organization development consultant. Now break
down what that means and the work that you do,
because I imagine you bring some of that into your
personal consulting work.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I do. So I'm an organizational development consultant in healthcare.
So I did stay in healthcare. I still work in
Maryland with another large health system that's in Maryland now,
University of Maryland Medical System, and I'm an internal consultant
to the organization, well actually to the system, which is
made up of a number of different hospitals. So what
(20:28):
basically we do is that we provide internal consulting around
leading change within the organization, developing leaders and power and teams,
aligning those leaders and teams with the strategic plans within
the organization, and just sort of being a support and
(20:49):
a resource to the executives in the organization that need
to make sure that their messages are being sort of
cascaded down throughout the organization in an effectual way.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Okay, So yes, really big job.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
You know, it's a job that covers a broad scope. Yeah,
because there's a lot sort of encompassed in that, and
when you think about consulting, that's really what it is.
I call a consultant is because there's something I'm trying
to accomplish and most oftentimes I'm not even sure what
that is. And it's the job of a consultant to
sort of help me figure out what is it that
(21:28):
I need and then to provide that for me. So
that's a large part of the work that I do
for university and mantling.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Now, yeah, I love the way you broke that down,
because I don't think people realize that the role of
a consultant really you come in like you're diagnosing first, right,
and then you know, that's why I tell people to
work with team is so customized, like there's no really
one size fits all, because you really have to diagnose
(21:57):
the problem and to do that. The healthcare system seems
so massive to me, especially with all the moving parts
and the different types of medical systems that you touch.
So my hat's off to you with that that that
sounds pretty massive.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It can be a little overwhelming at times because in
healthcare it's highly regulated, so you're dealing with lots of
factors that influence the culture and the operations within the organization.
To your point about consulting, most people that contact the
consultant already have an idea in their mind of what
(22:37):
the problem is, and they typically already have an idea
what the solution is. Right. But as a consultant, you're
absolutely right. Your first job is to diagnose, not what
you think the problem is, right, actually do the assessment
and the research to figure out what really is going on.
Things are not always as they.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Appear exactly, it's all. It's hilarious to me because people
like you say they come with their self prescribed issue,
and when you do a little digging, it's usually something else,
maybe something closely related, but it can be definitely something
that they haven't really touched on or avoided addressing for
(23:20):
so long. So yeah, now talk to me. I've heard
you talk a little bit about boundaries in leadership. Clearly
the game has changed over time, you know, in terms
of boundaries, I believe some of the lines are blurred.
Where are leaders getting it wrong when it comes to boundaries?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It's a great question, I do I would agree with
you that the game has changed for leadership. I don't know. Yeah,
the game has definitely changed, but I think the game
has changed in general right, like that there are not
(24:02):
nearly as many hard and fast rules, if you will,
around how things are done now compared to not that
long ago, right, just years ago. You know, there was
some clearly prescribed behaviors that were identified as great leadership behaviors, right,
(24:25):
and there all of these traits that leaders were expected
to have and demonstrate if they were going to be effective.
And I just don't think that that model applies anymore.
But not just to leadership. I think the boundaries are
blurred because boundaries in general have been blurred right now.
You this age of social media and what we're calling
(24:49):
authenticity in the when it's yeah, just this this age
of just everything is relative, because this is the lines
to be blurred, and I think leadership has just been
swallowed up in the blurring of lines generally right now.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, I hear you talking about this authenticity, Yeah, what
we're calling authenticity. And I think there's a lot happening
and being said in the workplace that is all in
the name of, like you said, being transparent when it's
not appropriate or you know, it's a case of TMI.
(25:30):
You know, there's a lot I think leaders are struggling with,
like you said, in general, because there were some clear
and distinct traits of what a good leader looks like,
what a transformational leader looks like what an authentic leader
looks like. And now today I think that there are
(25:52):
so many challenges to the leader themselves that they are
actually afraid to some extent their wings or to be
the strong leader that they should be expected to display
in the workplace. It's almost like, you know, the leader
now has to acquiesce to some extent or blur in
(26:16):
with the team. I mean, what do you think about that.
I think that leaders should have some hard and fast boundaries.
I think there are ways to have boundaries in leadership,
but also not without isolating your team, right, I.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Agree with you. I agree with you that I think
leaders still have to maintain some level of professionalism and
boundaries when they're dealing with their employees. But I think
that's gotten blurred in this the idea of becoming more relatable,
that's what it is. Yeah, it's the effort to become
(26:54):
more relatable, and people are looking for leaders that they
can relate to do and I think often that's that's skewed,
and it comes across as me being what we're calling
authentic and it's more open, transparent and sometimes inappropriate with you, yes,
(27:17):
and appropriate, you know, and just not creating boundaries, but
those are again I'm going back to just feeling like
we're in a day in an age where boundaries are
blurred across the board, and as a leader, you have
to take the responsibility for putting appropriate boundaries into place,
especially when you start to talk about We talked about
(27:37):
this a few minutes ago. We were talking about staying
at one job and the fact that this current culture
and the current generation that is entering the workface and
pretty much as they are too when we think about
what Z. They don't have boundaries, They don't have the
restrictions placed on them that we had sort of as
(27:59):
general X transitioning into the workplace, And so I think
the leader has the responsibility for putting appropriate professional boundaries
in place, even with their teams. And this whole idea
of being light versus being effective, I think you can
be light and effective.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
But again, I'm sorry, that mean, Okay, say it again.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
It's this need to be light, you know, and effective
and balancing that right because leaders have to make hard
decisions and be comfortable with communicating those hard decisions.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, I mean this. I don't want to sound callous
or cold, but this bleeding heart approach in the workplace. Now,
I know people who would argue against my point. But
at the same time, like you said, you know, it's
not that you don't want to demonstrate that you care
(28:58):
as a leader. Is just that again, are you effective
one as a leader and then two are you effective
as a worker? At the end of the day, we
can sit here and cry about or you know, discuss
and be gentle about your pet that's sick, or you
know how you're feeling today, you know what I mean. Like,
(29:22):
but at the but at the end of the day,
the work has to get done. And I think that's
the that's the biggest concern with gen Z and gen Alpha,
because the biggest complaint that I hear in the workplace
is that they it's just this issue of relatability and
(29:42):
at the same time they're lacking in soft skills and communication.
So it is it's really a struggle.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, yeah, it's a struggle. And you're hearing that jen
Z and Alpha are lacking in their communications, goes m. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,
but it's because they're not used to communicating. They're not
used to communicating and when you think about what we've
experienced globally as it relates to COVID. There is a
(30:16):
a an awareness of wellness that we haven't had before now,
and so people are struggling and looking for ways to
maintain their overall wellness in environments that historically have been
much more focused on the bottom line and get the
(30:37):
work done with well.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yes, you want to paycheck for what.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
But the great resignation of doctor Martin is showing us
that while that may have been a motivator and a
driving factor primarily at one time, it is not necessarily
the case anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
M M.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Looking for an environment of belonging at work, and previous
generations didn't place that demand on their workplace.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
That's true, and I'm glad you. I'm glad you postured
it that way because you know, as an entrepreneur, I
can say what I want because you know, hey, it's
my you know, if it's my company, I can run
it harver I want to, you know. But but you're
you're absolutely correct in that regard that, and they are
correct and wanting a sense of belonging in the workplace.
(31:33):
How that is accomplished in what that looks like, I
think that's where the lines are a little glory, But
it is a valid and realistic request, right, because while
I am in leadership development, you're in leadership development. Your
focus in your in your lifetime will always be somewhere
(31:55):
within the health system, and my focus will be, you know,
maybe in youth developed men or education or you know,
general leadership. And as long as I'm playing in that
little narrow field, I'm good. But there are a lot
of gen Z and Alpha and some of the millennials
that still aren't. They still don't feel connected, They don't
(32:16):
they don't feel cared for per se, They don't in
that you know, the companies are quick to fire and
all of that. And like you said, after COVID, they said,
huh bet, you're loving me now. It reminds me of
Jerey McGuire showed me the buddy that I had some worth.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I have much more worth and more volun to you
now because you don't have the same options that you
had before. Even as an organization, you just don't have
those options. And so to your point about where the
minds are, I think that we are doing ourselves a
disservice to some extent by allowing certain behaviors in the
(33:03):
workplace that are inappropriate and ineffective in light of not
having a lot of choice.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Right right, right, that's true, That's very true. And so
I think there, you know, there'll be many more consultants
out there hopefully listening who needs to help bring that balance. Now,
it really is a matter of balancing the skills, because
when you're dealing with whether it's a person who's younger
(33:33):
or older who isn't looking to you for their retirement plan,
you want to maximize their skills. Now, there used to
be a model that we talked about way back in
the day that many of the charter schools we felt used,
which was called the burnout model, which was the young
person would come in fresh out of college or out
(33:54):
of teach for America, and they would go into a
charter school with the understanding both the principal and the
teacher that they're gonna work only maybe three three years,
maybe five if you're really lucky, okay, but they were
gonna give you everything that they had within those three
years to keep, you know, to plow ahead. And so
(34:16):
I think that's the sort of approach, the mental approach
that gen Z and gen Alpha have towards the workplace,
because if they don't feel like that there's a place
where they can grow, like you talked about in the beginning,
where they can be cultivated and where they can be innovative.
They're gone, and they're gone at a certain point, and
(34:37):
at the same on that same token, they need to
realize that they need some additional development and be willing
to do that. I think that's the biggest difference. I
think previous generations have had the understanding and been willing
to be developed. I think sometimes they come in like
I know it all, let me do it, get out
(34:57):
of my way.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
It's like, yeah, but that does happen, and it's I
think it's it's incumbent upon the leader to identify ways
to bridge that gap. What you're describing I experienced as
(35:20):
a leader, you know, leading in laboratory management for that
thirteen fourteen years. I by the time I've left, that's
exactly what was happening. I was getting these fresh graduates
who would come in and I knew they had a
three year plan. I knew they were on their way
to med school or they were on their way to
(35:42):
physician assistant school, and so it was my choice to
either maximize them while I had them. You know and
get the best that I could out of them, but
be supportive of the fact that they were moving on.
And they responded well to knowing that as an organization,
I'm invested in your development and not just in what
(36:06):
I can get out of you for the time that
you're here, which is very different than the way previous
generations experienced working in the workplace. It was all about
what I could do for the organization, not what the
organization was doing for me, as other than giving me.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
A paycheck, rightn't giving me a paycheck every tirement? Yeah,
nobody's doing that anymore.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
This generation is looking for what's in it for me?
If I'm going to be here, even if I'm only
going to be here for three or five years, What
is in it for me? What kind of experience to
hear language like, what's the employee experience? You know, I'm like,
I didn't. That wasn't my experience coming into the workforce.
(36:54):
One came what my experience was? What kind of day
am I having? What environment is created for me? It was,
you know, come do the work that you're being paid
to do.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Right. We have celebrations along the way, and like you said,
and go home.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah, nowadays they really are looking for the employee experience,
like what experience are you giving them while they're with
your organization. Yeah, leaders have to balance that and still
figure out how to get the work done at the
end of the day.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Exactly, at the end of the day, get the work
done because because in reality, we're all working for someone else.
We're all working to provide a service in some way
to someone else. It doesn't matter if you're in the
health industry, education, entertainment, it doesn't matter you're you're still
(37:46):
producing to put out to someone who's receiving or consuming
which you're distributing, or service you're providing, or research you're giving.
You know, everything is still you know, cyclical in some
kind of way. So while like you said that, the
leaders are really challenged, the employers have to bring that
type of balance and be able to answer those questions
(38:09):
because more and more of the younger generation are interviewing
the employer as much as the employer is interviewing them.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, yeah, now you have really you know, continued on
your leadership path and I was so excited to hear
that you are part of the board of directors for
Chase Brexton healthcare. I congratulation, Thank you very much. Now
what portion of your that's a that's a huge that's
(38:43):
that's a big deal. Okay, that's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I don't know if it was very exciting.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, that's like you should have had like a little
party with your family.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Or something was going to mean, it was definitely exciting
for me, and it has been an exciting journey.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Oh my gosh, you're at the big girl table. Let
me tell you you are ware the sausage is made right,
that's where it's just it's just so I'm so happy
for you. And to be a young African American woman
at the table of this prestigious medical institution. I mean,
it's just it's amazing. So again, congratulations, congulations. Now what
(39:26):
tell us what portion of your leadership skills did you
attribute to acquiring this position or this role?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So I think it was a combination of my experience
and healthcare, having had experience both from a clinical sort
of lens during my time as managing clinical departments, and
then my experience with quality and safety, which are foundational
to any healthcare organization. Aligning that with my education and
(39:58):
my background is strategic leadership specifically and sort of helping
organizations to plan for their future and establish their goals.
I think it was the combination of all of those
things that made this a good fit for me.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Now, am I allowed to asks if it's termed or
you know how you have to you serve maybe two
or four years and then they vote again or different
boards do it differently, or is this im perpetuity so.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
It's a three year term and then I will have
to ren there?
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Okay, awesome, Well, I have no doubt they'll want you
there for a long time. It's just so exciting. And again,
if you haven't celebrated, you need to pour yourself a
little back champaign or red wine because you know, church
people drink red wine. That's good for the stomach, and
(40:56):
you better say it. It was the first miracle Jesus did,
and he did it was mama istomach and he said,
we're gonna drink wine in heaven too. Yeah, did you
read that scripture?
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I don't know if I read that.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Okay, there is one. I'm not joking, as we will
he will drink wine with us again.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
You're absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Yeah, he would thank you. Okay, Oh my goodness. Okay,
I have to know. I have to know because you're
you're very analytical in your thinking. You do have you know,
I said it jokingly at the beginning, but you do
have a very wide reputation as a woman who's professional,
(41:44):
who's no nonsense, but who's also personable, someone you know.
I've heard people far and wide say that they can
come to you, and you know, know that their confidence
is kept. You know, you'll know where the bear the
bodies are buried, so to speak, and you know all
of these wonderful and just excellent things that pertain to
(42:08):
your leadership, your leadership style, your leadership teaching and facilitation.
You have a very good reputation there too. Tell me,
if you want to be a little bit transparent, what
is your biggest challenge in your own personal leadership development?
Where do you see areas of growth and opportunity.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
M m hmm. That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Actually in the rest of the world.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, no, no, I'm really thinking about it because I can.
I can think of tons of challenges I have by
personal development. I'm thinking of those that impact you know,
leadership specifically, and I think what you stated about my
strengths are actually the things that lead to my greatest challenges. Right,
(43:04):
So you reference me being incredibly analytical, and I am
every you know thinking preference behavioral analysis I've ever done
identifies two things. I'm analytical and I'm structural, right, and
then everything else after that. So those are those are
the two lenses through which I approach most things. And
(43:26):
because of that, I sometimes struggle with being inspirational and
intuitive on that other side of leadership.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
So it's hard for me sometimes to do big picture thinking,
and so I tend to try to surround myself with
people who are much more naturally creative than I am,
much more conceptual than I, because I can very much
get lost in the weeds and the details of things.
(44:01):
That's one of my challenges. The other challenges, I think
are again related to the very same things you described
as strength. So yep, I am I'm like a vault right.
My expressiveness if you were thinking about behavioral patterns, my
expressiveness is pretty low. I'm a quiet individual. I process internally,
(44:22):
I am an introvert in the pure sense of the word.
Unless I am delivering training or having conversation with people
that I'm pretty comfortable with. So those things make me
wonderful for keeping the secrets right. You can tell it
to me and no, it's not going anywhere. But they
also become challenges. Sometimes when I should be expressing or
(44:44):
sharing ideas, I have a tendency to question myself whether
or not what I'm about to say is going to
add value, And if I can't readily identify the value
that it's adding, I will oftentimes not say it. And
so I think that sometimes that low expressiveness is a
(45:06):
leadership challenge that I have because I walk away with
ideas and thoughts that may have expanded a conversation where
I chose to keep them.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
To myself because you're analyzing it too, processing it for
and analyzing. Wow. Well, the fact that you can be
that reflective and no, I mean, I haven't heard anyone
really articulate you know as well as you have their
areas of growth, their areas of opportunity. So the fact
(45:37):
that you know what they are and can articulate it
so well is really interesting. I'm sitting here like.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Hmm, you know, I've been with me a long time.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
With you a long time. You know, you'd be surprised,
you know, how people have been with themselves for a
long time and still looking in the mirror saying who am? I?
Who am?
Speaker 2 (46:02):
We're always learning more about ourselves. There's always the opportunity
to know more about ourselves. And then, you know, making
sure that we are going to the designer himself and
getting his insight on who we are also helps to
identify where those opportunities are for development for me.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Mm hmmm, mm hmmm. So it's like, take let's let's
go back to the manufacturer. Right, Yeah, I get it,
I get it. So tell me about your company, Broken
Arrow Incorporated. I'm sorry, Polished.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
So it's my broken arrow. With broken Arrow, it's broken.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Arrow is something else. In fact, I actually think it
has something to do with an anime or something my child.
But Polished Arrow, that's it's something else stuck in my head.
But yes, tell me about Polish Arrow Incorporated.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
So, Polished Arrow is my organization and it is a
leadership development organization. It is really targeted at helping Christian
leaders to refine their skills so that they are making
the best impact possible in the world. Right. I like
(47:27):
to say that Polished Arrow bridges the gap between passion
and skill, because sometimes there's a gap. I can be
very passionate about something. I can be very passionate about
leading people and wanting to be in positions of influence,
and I don't always we don't always have the skills
that align with that passion. I think about that in
(47:48):
a ministry context is where I think I see it
most often, although it happens in healthcare too, and I
would imagine in other industries. Those are the two that
I just happen to be very familiar with having been
in theleadership and ministry for a long time. As well,
is that oftentimes we put people into leadership positions based
upon in ministry a gifting or an aptitude and then
(48:11):
thinking about it, you know, in healthcare, sometimes it's a
technical skill and ability, and we assume that because they
have this aptitude or gifting that they will automatically be
suited to leading people, and they often they're not. It's
a different set of skills that we don't have. And
so Polished Arrow is really focused on bridging that gap
(48:32):
between passion and skill and really just helping Christian leaders
and specifically, but all leaders that we encounter to be
able to develop the skills necessary to have a positive
influence and be an effective leader.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Oh, I totally get it. I totally get what you're saying.
How a lot of people in faith based institutions have
a past. They're excited, you know, maybe they want to
lead children's church or teach the little kids. But in
their maybe in their regular job, they're not a teacher
or an educator, you know, but they have a passion.
(49:13):
But but that skill for teaching, or that skill for
leading an area a department in your ministry, you really
need to develop that skill.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Okay, okay, Now do you work when you work with
these individuals are they are you using a cohort model
or is it one to one you do six weeks courses?
How what does it look like in real time when
you're doing it.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
In real time? It looks like a little bit of
all of that. Because I am a certified coach, so
I do one on one coaching, leadership coaching, and development,
also do personal development coaching and a little bit of
spiritual coaching. And then I also do individualized workshops. We
talked about this earlier. When you're consulting, everything is customized
(50:06):
because I'm addressing the specific needs that have been identified
by this organization or by this leader, and then I
do have you know, a battery of already developed sort
of six week models that I use around different subject matters.
So it really does depend on what the need is
and who I'm marketing with.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
M now, I have been in a position, uh one
time when I was consulting for a large school district
and it was something similar to what you're describing in
the sense of, you know, matching skill with passions. Some
you know, educators were not They were skilled but not passionate,
(50:49):
and some were I felt they were passionate but not effective,
that's for sure, and had to balance, you know, very
gingerly sort of be strategic about helping them transition out
of the field because they had been in for so
long to the detriment of the children's education. Have you
(51:12):
been in a position where you've had to work with
the head leader and help them transition people out of
a role, or work with an individual to transition them
out of a role.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
I have, in fact, a lot long ago, I had
a contract with the government organization and the director was
experiencing some challenges with his team, and I, you know,
came in at the director's requested some professional development with
(51:49):
the team and sort of discovered that there were challenges
with the not just the team, but also perhaps some
challenges with the leaders. Stided and was able to provide
(52:10):
some one on one coaching that uncovered what was already there,
which was that this leader's skills and strengths were aligned
with a different type of work. But it took starting
(52:33):
with an assessment and being able to provide them with
data that they could look at, and then helping them
to process through what the data was saying, and then
aligning that with what they were experiencing and helping guide
them to a conclusion rather than me having to gingerly
(52:54):
say to them, this is not a good fit for you.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Discovery.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Discovery, it's the most impactful kind.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yeah you say, you said it, I didn't, but I
agree with you.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Uncover what's there?
Speaker 1 (53:18):
I like that, I like that? What for so far?
I want to know? How do you relax? What you
you have a lot on your plate? How do you
let your hair down? What are some of your hobbies?
What what makes you tune out the world? Please tell
(53:39):
me you have something, because if not, that's a whole
nother segment.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
That's probably a whole other segment of conversation. Yeah, I
don't really, I don't really have hobbies. I love to
this is the standard was but it's true. I love
to read. I'm always learning. I am ever learning another book,
(54:03):
another seminar, another webinar. So I'm always learning. I love
listening to music, and when I have downtime, those are
the things that I'm doing. I love spending time with
family and friends. But I realized, and you will understand this,
that as a high capacity individual, that I frequently keep
(54:28):
a lot of things on my plate that I am
juggling at one time, which doesn't present a lot of
opportunity for downtime and then finishing my program, which you
will also be able to relate to, I lost total
sight of anything that I like to do.
Speaker 3 (54:45):
Oh in that season life and so it's only been
has it even been two years, It's only been a year,
a year.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
And a half. So really just trying to get back
to what was it I used to like today?
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. When I was in
my doctor program, I don't know what happened like those years,
it's a blur. I don't know what happened in the world.
I don't know who shah John, like, I have no idea.
And then afterwards they the counselors or the uh they
(55:25):
call them counselors. What were they called our mentors in
the program, they told us that once we exited that
you may go through what you are experiencing now and
what I also experienced, which was the sense of now
what who? What are they like? Even the idea of
(55:46):
free time was startling. Absolutely many of people who graduate
their doctoral program and you know, they feel a sense
to of depression because it's like, okay, you you you're
so used to having something there, feeling your everything consuming your.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Life, and then all of a sudden, you have time.
You got time and space, and you honestly don't know
what to do with it. It's interesting. My chair was
the same way. She was like, lo, let's give yourself
six months to just get back to living. And it
was really it's been really challenging because I'm used to
having something that required my constant attention. There was always
(56:32):
something to do. I don't care what time of day
it was, what day and week it was, where it was,
there was always something looming over my head that I
should have been reading or working on or writing. And
when that's gone. There is this sense of loss and
a new we identify with who you are. And so
I'm still being quite candid. I am stilling.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Okay, Well, I didn't know. I didn't know it was
that fresh. So I get it. This is a fresh
thing right here. So I get it, doctor Anderson. And
then you do feel such a sense of accomplishment, because
I mean, it's hard work. I told people, I put
it right up there with having kids and going through
boot camp. I mean, I'm a veteran and that's that's
(57:17):
writing right in mind there. It's like, you know, you
want to go into airport and hear them say paging, paging,
doctor Martin Paiging, and I want to run through and say,
that's me.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
It is an incredibly rewarding yeah experience, and I am.
I am so grateful.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah you should be. You've accomplished so much your like
I say, your reputation precedes itself, whether it's in the workplace,
whether it's as a consultant, a facilitator, a leader, a coach,
a minister, elder. I think I'm getting the titles right.
(58:08):
You know, your reputation really does precede you, and you
you should be proud, and so I've just privileged that
you talked. You took time to talk to me to like,
as you said, I like the way you put it. Wait,
high frequency people versus type a personality?
Speaker 2 (58:26):
Yeah, high capacity?
Speaker 1 (58:28):
Oh god, yes, yes, and I'm gonna do it to
the wheels fall off? Yeah why not? Why not? You
only get one life, might as well do what you
love and do it well.
Speaker 2 (58:41):
Well, it has been my absolute pleasure to have this
conversation with you. You know, leadership is something that I share
your passion for. So this has been good.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
Absolutely, we definitely have to have you back to do
more leadership talk. We want to talk about some leadership
styles and talk about some leadership faux pause and some
you know, some mentoring and leadership, all those good things.
So again, thank you again for joining me. It's been
(59:12):
such a pleasure. I hope you keep warm. Oh, we're
gonna try to fight through this winter.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
I believe it. We're just getting started, so I.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
Know, I know. Yet, Yeah, let's hunker down through it.
Yes we will. Well, thank you folks for tuning in tonight.
As always, stay warm wherever you are, and thank you
so much for listening, And as always, thank you for
(59:41):
being a team player.
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Bots const
Good evening. Welcome to Team Leadership Radio. That's t E
e M. Train, equip, empower and Mobilize leadership. I'm your
host's doctor, Cecilia Martin, and we're moving into the holiday season, y'all,
and it sure feels like it. I hope you're keeping
(00:51):
warm wherever you are. Thank you for tuning in on
this cold, cold evening I have with me to doctor
Lois Anderson. She is a season leader, consultant, facilitator and coach,
and as an organization development consultant with the University of
(01:12):
Maryland Medical Systems, she provides training and consulting services in
leadership development, team alignment, and strategic objectives including change management.
As an independent contractor, she has been privileged to offer workshops, coaching,
and consulting services to individuals and organizations of different sizes
(01:35):
and scopes. With over twenty years of experience as a
leader with Johns Hopkins Medical on Johns Hopkins Medicine, I
should say doctor Anderson gained extensive expertise in multi stakeholder processes.
She is a founder and CEO of Polished Arrow Incorporated,
(01:56):
and as a Doctorate in Strategic Leadership and Masters in
Organizational leadership. Welcome to the show, Doctor Anderson.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
My good evening, Doctor Martin. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Oh I'm so excited to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
It's good to be here. Good to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I mean, you a VIP. I tell you.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
To somebody, I'm a very important person.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I hope you a VIP, so a whole lot of persons.
I know that for sure. Oh my gosh, how you
dealing with this cold weather? I can't take it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Yeah, this is not my favorite time of year. Yeah,
my least favorite season. And so I'm adjusting. We had
a twenty degree drop in the night, yeah, in like
twenty four hours. So yeah, it's it's chili.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, it's a bit much for me. And you know,
I was born and raised in Texas, so I'm good
with going to the beach, you know, at Christmas and
Thanksgiving and stuff like that. But shorts on and flip flops.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
But you spent a lot of time in some other
areas I did. I did.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I see what a little bit better you would think, like,
after like what seventeen years on the East Coast, you
think I'll be used to it, But I never got
used to it. I hated to get gas. I hated
to go to the grocery store. I didn't want to
leave my house to the car, or from the work
building to the car. It was too much, that cold.
(03:36):
I never ever got used to it.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, it's pretty serious. It definitely shuts down all extra activity.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Yeah, it's nothing an extra needs to be going on.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
That's the extra, right, only the necessities.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Oh my gosh, oh my goodness. So let's jump in.
So you have spent twenty years with Johns Hopkins Medicine. Yeah,
that's a long time and you're still young.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I mean, my goodness, it feels like it was a lifetime.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah. Well you went from tell me about your journey
from working in the lab to becoming senior quality and
Innovation project administrator.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the leap.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
You're absolutely right. I started at Johns Hoppiens as an
electron microscopy technician.
Speaker 1 (04:34):
Wait, electron micoscropy, mycroscopy? Mycroscopy? Is that right?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Okay, good, all right.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
See I started as an electron microscopy technician working in
pathology and had experienced doing that before I came to Hopkins,
and so that was the door that really opened up
to me and presented the opportunity to me to become
part of the Hopkins family. And so I took that
(05:08):
position at Hopkins and stayed in that position for about
eighteen months before being promoted to the laboratory manager at
that time, and it was an interesting transition. I think
within three months of me being there, my supervisor was
no longer with the organization and I had not because
(05:32):
I was so new, I had not met the administrative
leaders for the department. And I remember sitting down one
day and just saying, I need to send an email
introduce myself and let them know that I'm at risk
of leaving this organization a good leadership, just like that,
just like that, And that is exactly what happened. That's
(05:55):
how I introduced myself, and that sort of opened the
door to dialogue about the absence of leadership in the
department at the time and a skill set that I
was not hired for but possessed when I came to Hopkins.
Come from an organization where I had had a leadership role,
(06:17):
and you know, could point back to different things that
had happened in my life, even in growing up in
the church, where I always sort of had leadership experience
and brought that with me to Hopkins. I had come
from an organization that had a state of the art
(06:38):
sort of program around the work that we were doing,
which at that time was strictly renal pathology, and so
I just had this skill set that was something that
the organization very much needed and it opened the door
to me being able to move into a leadership role
relatively quickly. They were also in the middle of trans
(07:00):
positioning a huge move of the lab to a brand
new building and again lost leadership in the middle of that.
So that meant me picking that project up in the middle,
carrying it forward, all of which I did before being
promoted into the manager's role.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Okay, so that explains your expertise and multi stakeholder processes
and what is it change management?
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Yes, I did it. I experienced it as a grassroots
participant very early in my career, and so that sort
of opened that door to leadership and then from there
I just continue to have more and more leadership responsibility
over the years that I was with Hopkins. I had
(07:50):
at the time that I transitioned to the senior Quality
and Innovation Project administrative role, I had been a senior
clinical manager at that point for probably about thirteen years. Really, yeah,
I had been in a senior clinical role for about
thirteen years each, you know, just having progressive responsibility added
(08:11):
to my role. So by that time I was managing
three different labs. I was the administrator for two clinical
departments and had pretty much maxed out my advance meant
opportunities from that role. My administrator at the time is
very candid with me that there really wasn't much more
(08:32):
she could give me to grow unless she retired, and
she wasn't quite ready to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Wow, what a conversation. You're maxed out. I have nowhere
to put you except for in my role, and I
have no intentions of retiring.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
So that was the essence of the conversation. Wow, that
was the essence of the conversation. She had given me
more opportunity than I could have ever asked for within
the organization. And she was that person that I emailed
that day in the lab to say, listen, I'm leaving
(09:07):
this organization due to a lack of effective leadership. And
so she and I built a rapport over the year.
She was a phenomenal mentor to me. She opened the
door to many opportunities that sort of extended beyond the
scope of what my job was. So I got to
travel the country on behind half of Hopkins, I'm doing
(09:28):
training for other laboratory management leaders. It was a wonderful
time and I actually appreciated all of the opportunities for
growth she had given me. But she was maxed out
and so was I in that role.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Right, So what happened next?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Then?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Did she retire or.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
She retired after I transitioned to the senior Quality and
Innovation project administrator role, so that meant me leaving clinical
work and moving more into to a quality and safety
role at the organization. So by then I had done
my master's in organizational leadership and was looking for an
opportunity to move into more administrative role that was sort
(10:13):
of on the track for executive leadership. And this opportunity
to become part of the Armstrong Institute for Patient Safety
and Quality, which was the first of its kind in
the nation at the time and it's still a model
for other patient safety quality institutes in the nation and
has national recognition. A position opened up and it was
(10:38):
perfect timing for me to transition into something that was
focused less on the clinical aspects of the work, but
more or establishing quality and safety standards for patient care
clinical operations within the hospital.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay, so I hear you saying you're talking about so
starting at a place where you were entry level well
pretty much, and then taking having the courage to say
very early on, listen, this isn't working. Most people wouldn't
have even taken the risk in your role to say that,
(11:12):
because you know, they're so concerned about job security, you know,
and all of those things. But I hear you saying
that you had a very what I call courageous conversation
early on which panned out for your good. I hear
you talking about the person that you sent the email
to then becomes your mentor, and you begin to grow
(11:34):
and develop to such an extent that you actually max
out of your role. Not not to mention the promotions
and uh, I'm sure raises and salary along the way.
That's that's just that's just amazing to me, you know,
you know a lot of a lot of I'm glad
to hear you say that too about Johns Hopkins Medicine
(11:56):
because I feel like I had a great experience with
Johns Hopkins University when I worked there, and to some
extent I wish I had stayed longer. But in my
role as a senior facilitator, we traveled. There were only
three of us, maybe two at the time, travel monthly,
you know, if not every two weeks, and you know,
(12:18):
did that for three years straight. And I'm wondering, though,
I do sometimes wonder what would have happened if I
had stayed because it was such it was such a
great proving ground, like you said as well, you know,
and they they really seem to have this culture where
if you can think of it, they'll let you create it.
If you can think of it, they'll let you work
(12:40):
it out. And so but in today's culture, many people
don't stand on the job very long. And I get why.
There's so many motivating factors that keep people where they are,
or you know, things that prompt them to leave. I
think it's more of the culture of the younger generation.
But what are some factors that kept you at Johns
(13:02):
Hopkins Medicine for twenty years?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
I think I think you stated it well. Johns Hopkins
was an incredibly innovative environment right it was cutting. It
was on the cutting edge of medicine. Lots of intrical
procedures were developed there. I can recall times when we
were doing something and it was the first time it
(13:27):
was being done in the country. Like I remember working
the day that the first multi transplant renal transplant happened
and there were five people in the r at one time,
literally getting getting transplants all at one time. But it
was that it was an excellent place for that kind
of innovation and cutting edge opportunities, and for me it
(13:51):
was a dream job. I moved to Maryland. I'm originally
from New Jersey and I moved to it.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
You can hear the accent, girl.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
But it was it was my dream job. I moved
to Maryland for the opportunity to work at Johns Hopkins,
which at that time was number one in the country,
and it was just the environment was very nurturing and welcoming.
I think when you talk about people not wanting to
stay in environment in companies very long these days, I
(14:29):
think it has a lot to do with the culture
of the organization. Right There is something about the culture
of this generation which we could talk about, but I
think a lot of it also has to do with
the culture of the organization itself, and when you're in
an environment that does not provide you with opportunities for growth,
(14:50):
or if you're looking for opportunities for growth and can't
get those opportunities where you are, and people are much
more inclined now to move on. And for me, Hopkins
was a place where I was being consistently presented with
opportunities to grow and to develop.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Oh, for sure, I think gone are the days of
the status quo. I think, you know, there are some
bureaucracies in place that are necessary and have to stay
in place. You know, when you think about, you know,
as a doctor in organizational leadership, there are certain types
of organizations and a bureaucracy is here to stay for
several reasons. I mean, the Army is a bureaucracy and
(15:28):
to be in place. But I will tell you when
I was at Hopkins University, it was one of the
best proving grounds I've ever had. It was one of
the best culturally stimulating, you know, intellectually stimulating environments that
I've ever been in. I felt like it gave me
(15:50):
a great cornerstone and a springboard for the rest of
my career, if not life. In so many respects, and
again though the travel was too much if you have
a family, you know, I went to Hawaii for a week.
That was wonderful. When I came back, my six month
old baby was looking at me like I was crazy.
(16:11):
She was like, Eve, I don't really know who you
are right now. But so but I wonder, though, are
there any regrets for staying at one agency for so long?
Are there any cons to that? Career wise?
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I think that there are some potential cons to stay
in an organization for so long. You know, you talked
about Hopkins being the environment that sort of became the
cornerstone or laid a lot of the foundation for your
development there after where you went in your career, and
I will definitely say that was the case for me
at Hopkins. I think back to my development as a
(16:52):
leader at Hopkins. I mean, I recognized the need for
effective leadership early, but I didn't necessarily have the skills
at that time to know exactly what effective leadership looked like.
I just knew I would be getting it, and so
Hopkins became a great environment for me to learn what
effective leadership looked like. Even when I think about people
(17:15):
that I'm mentoring now I will tell them the days
I experienced at Hopkins were character building days for me
as a leader, and I got that foundation through those
experience in those high pressure, high pressure environment you know,
where there is a demand to function at a certain level,
(17:36):
and when you have a responsibility for others that are
likewise expected to function at that level, it builds something
in you if you allow it to. And so I
just wanted to underscore that about Hopkins as an environment
for me, I don't regret it. I think there are
some cons to it. Again, depending upon the culture of
the organization. I will say that for me, which was
(17:58):
what ultimately led to my transition out of Hopkins, is
that sometimes when you have been immersed in a culture
and in an organization for so long, you develop blind
spots to opportunities and developments that may be happening outside
of the context that you're experiencing.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
That's the truth. That's the truth. People get what do
you call it? It's almost like they begin to live
in like a career bubble, you know, where they don't
really know how to function in a different environment.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
If that's fair to say it is it is, Yeah,
you develop blind spots. You lose your ability to, like
you said, thrive and function in different environments. And so
that is definitely one of the downsides to spending so
much time in a particular organization, especially if you are
(18:59):
not in an organization where you're growing and developing. So
I transitioned through a number of different roles over the
years that I was there. I don't know if I
had not had that opportunity, if I would have been
able to stay that long.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Yeah, And it makes a difference because I remember leaving
Hoppkins and going to other places, and you know, I'm
looking at them like, y'all haven't upgraded on this yet,
And I mean, can't we just create this? I mean
because they always found a way to say yes, no
matter how our land is, your ideas seemed or complex.
You know, we have a think tank and make it happen.
(19:36):
You know, they never they always found a way to
say yes. So it does almost it makes it hard
when you go someplace else and you're like, well, y'all
still using this outdated process.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
And you do not have the same experience. It is
very challenging.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yes, now you are an organization development consultant. Now break
down what that means and the work that you do,
because I imagine you bring some of that into your
personal consulting work.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I do. So I'm an organizational development consultant in healthcare.
So I did stay in healthcare. I still work in
Maryland with another large health system that's in Maryland now,
University of Maryland Medical System, and I'm an internal consultant
to the organization, well actually to the system, which is
made up of a number of different hospitals. So what
(20:28):
basically we do is that we provide internal consulting around
leading change within the organization, developing leaders and power and teams,
aligning those leaders and teams with the strategic plans within
the organization, and just sort of being a support and
(20:49):
a resource to the executives in the organization that need
to make sure that their messages are being sort of
cascaded down throughout the organization in an effectual way.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Okay, So yes, really big job.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
You know, it's a job that covers a broad scope. Yeah,
because there's a lot sort of encompassed in that, and
when you think about consulting, that's really what it is.
I call a consultant is because there's something I'm trying
to accomplish and most oftentimes I'm not even sure what
that is. And it's the job of a consultant to
sort of help me figure out what is it that
(21:28):
I need and then to provide that for me. So
that's a large part of the work that I do
for university and mantling.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Now, yeah, I love the way you broke that down,
because I don't think people realize that the role of
a consultant really you come in like you're diagnosing first, right,
and then you know, that's why I tell people to
work with team is so customized, like there's no really
one size fits all, because you really have to diagnose
(21:57):
the problem and to do that. The healthcare system seems
so massive to me, especially with all the moving parts
and the different types of medical systems that you touch.
So my hat's off to you with that that that
sounds pretty massive.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
It can be a little overwhelming at times because in
healthcare it's highly regulated, so you're dealing with lots of
factors that influence the culture and the operations within the organization.
To your point about consulting, most people that contact the
consultant already have an idea in their mind of what
(22:37):
the problem is, and they typically already have an idea
what the solution is. Right. But as a consultant, you're
absolutely right. Your first job is to diagnose, not what
you think the problem is, right, actually do the assessment
and the research to figure out what really is going on.
Things are not always as they.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Appear exactly, it's all. It's hilarious to me because people
like you say they come with their self prescribed issue,
and when you do a little digging, it's usually something else,
maybe something closely related, but it can be definitely something
that they haven't really touched on or avoided addressing for
(23:20):
so long. So yeah, now talk to me. I've heard
you talk a little bit about boundaries in leadership. Clearly
the game has changed over time, you know, in terms
of boundaries, I believe some of the lines are blurred.
Where are leaders getting it wrong when it comes to boundaries?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
It's a great question, I do I would agree with
you that the game has changed for leadership. I don't know. Yeah,
the game has definitely changed, but I think the game
has changed in general right, like that there are not
(24:02):
nearly as many hard and fast rules, if you will,
around how things are done now compared to not that
long ago, right, just years ago. You know, there was
some clearly prescribed behaviors that were identified as great leadership behaviors, right,
(24:25):
and there all of these traits that leaders were expected
to have and demonstrate if they were going to be effective.
And I just don't think that that model applies anymore.
But not just to leadership. I think the boundaries are
blurred because boundaries in general have been blurred right now.
You this age of social media and what we're calling
(24:49):
authenticity in the when it's yeah, just this this age
of just everything is relative, because this is the lines
to be blurred, and I think leadership has just been
swallowed up in the blurring of lines generally right now.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, I hear you talking about this authenticity, Yeah, what
we're calling authenticity. And I think there's a lot happening
and being said in the workplace that is all in
the name of, like you said, being transparent when it's
not appropriate or you know, it's a case of TMI.
(25:30):
You know, there's a lot I think leaders are struggling with,
like you said, in general, because there were some clear
and distinct traits of what a good leader looks like,
what a transformational leader looks like what an authentic leader
looks like. And now today I think that there are
(25:52):
so many challenges to the leader themselves that they are
actually afraid to some extent their wings or to be
the strong leader that they should be expected to display
in the workplace. It's almost like, you know, the leader
now has to acquiesce to some extent or blur in
(26:16):
with the team. I mean, what do you think about that.
I think that leaders should have some hard and fast boundaries.
I think there are ways to have boundaries in leadership,
but also not without isolating your team, right, I.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Agree with you. I agree with you that I think
leaders still have to maintain some level of professionalism and
boundaries when they're dealing with their employees. But I think
that's gotten blurred in this the idea of becoming more relatable,
that's what it is. Yeah, it's the effort to become
(26:54):
more relatable, and people are looking for leaders that they
can relate to do and I think often that's that's skewed,
and it comes across as me being what we're calling
authentic and it's more open, transparent and sometimes inappropriate with you, yes,
(27:17):
and appropriate, you know, and just not creating boundaries, but
those are again I'm going back to just feeling like
we're in a day in an age where boundaries are
blurred across the board, and as a leader, you have
to take the responsibility for putting appropriate boundaries into place,
especially when you start to talk about We talked about
(27:37):
this a few minutes ago. We were talking about staying
at one job and the fact that this current culture
and the current generation that is entering the workface and
pretty much as they are too when we think about
what Z. They don't have boundaries, They don't have the
restrictions placed on them that we had sort of as
(27:59):
general X transitioning into the workplace, And so I think
the leader has the responsibility for putting appropriate professional boundaries
in place, even with their teams. And this whole idea
of being light versus being effective, I think you can
be light and effective.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
But again, I'm sorry, that mean, Okay, say it again.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
It's this need to be light, you know, and effective
and balancing that right because leaders have to make hard
decisions and be comfortable with communicating those hard decisions.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Yeah, I mean this. I don't want to sound callous
or cold, but this bleeding heart approach in the workplace. Now,
I know people who would argue against my point. But
at the same time, like you said, you know, it's
not that you don't want to demonstrate that you care
(28:58):
as a leader. Is just that again, are you effective
one as a leader and then two are you effective
as a worker? At the end of the day, we
can sit here and cry about or you know, discuss
and be gentle about your pet that's sick, or you
know how you're feeling today, you know what I mean. Like,
(29:22):
but at the but at the end of the day,
the work has to get done. And I think that's
the that's the biggest concern with gen Z and gen Alpha,
because the biggest complaint that I hear in the workplace
is that they it's just this issue of relatability and
(29:42):
at the same time they're lacking in soft skills and communication.
So it is it's really a struggle.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, yeah, it's a struggle. And you're hearing that jen
Z and Alpha are lacking in their communications, goes m. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,
but it's because they're not used to communicating. They're not
used to communicating and when you think about what we've
experienced globally as it relates to COVID. There is a
(30:16):
a an awareness of wellness that we haven't had before now,
and so people are struggling and looking for ways to
maintain their overall wellness in environments that historically have been
much more focused on the bottom line and get the
(30:37):
work done with well.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yes, you want to paycheck for what.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
But the great resignation of doctor Martin is showing us
that while that may have been a motivator and a
driving factor primarily at one time, it is not necessarily
the case anymore.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
M M.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Looking for an environment of belonging at work, and previous
generations didn't place that demand on their workplace.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
That's true, and I'm glad you. I'm glad you postured
it that way because you know, as an entrepreneur, I
can say what I want because you know, hey, it's
my you know, if it's my company, I can run
it harver I want to, you know. But but you're
you're absolutely correct in that regard that, and they are
correct and wanting a sense of belonging in the workplace.
(31:33):
How that is accomplished in what that looks like, I
think that's where the lines are a little glory, But
it is a valid and realistic request, right, because while
I am in leadership development, you're in leadership development. Your
focus in your in your lifetime will always be somewhere
(31:55):
within the health system, and my focus will be, you know,
maybe in youth developed men or education or you know,
general leadership. And as long as I'm playing in that
little narrow field, I'm good. But there are a lot
of gen Z and Alpha and some of the millennials
that still aren't. They still don't feel connected, They don't
(32:16):
they don't feel cared for per se, They don't in
that you know, the companies are quick to fire and
all of that. And like you said, after COVID, they said,
huh bet, you're loving me now. It reminds me of
Jerey McGuire showed me the buddy that I had some worth.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I have much more worth and more volun to you
now because you don't have the same options that you
had before. Even as an organization, you just don't have
those options. And so to your point about where the
minds are, I think that we are doing ourselves a
disservice to some extent by allowing certain behaviors in the
(33:03):
workplace that are inappropriate and ineffective in light of not
having a lot of choice.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Right right, right, that's true, That's very true. And so
I think there, you know, there'll be many more consultants
out there hopefully listening who needs to help bring that balance. Now,
it really is a matter of balancing the skills, because
when you're dealing with whether it's a person who's younger
(33:33):
or older who isn't looking to you for their retirement plan,
you want to maximize their skills. Now, there used to
be a model that we talked about way back in
the day that many of the charter schools we felt used,
which was called the burnout model, which was the young
person would come in fresh out of college or out
(33:54):
of teach for America, and they would go into a
charter school with the understanding both the principal and the
teacher that they're gonna work only maybe three three years,
maybe five if you're really lucky, okay, but they were
gonna give you everything that they had within those three
years to keep, you know, to plow ahead. And so
(34:16):
I think that's the sort of approach, the mental approach
that gen Z and gen Alpha have towards the workplace,
because if they don't feel like that there's a place
where they can grow, like you talked about in the beginning,
where they can be cultivated and where they can be innovative.
They're gone, and they're gone at a certain point, and
(34:37):
at the same on that same token, they need to
realize that they need some additional development and be willing
to do that. I think that's the biggest difference. I
think previous generations have had the understanding and been willing
to be developed. I think sometimes they come in like
I know it all, let me do it, get out
(34:57):
of my way.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
It's like, yeah, but that does happen, and it's I
think it's it's incumbent upon the leader to identify ways
to bridge that gap. What you're describing I experienced as
(35:20):
a leader, you know, leading in laboratory management for that
thirteen fourteen years. I by the time I've left, that's
exactly what was happening. I was getting these fresh graduates
who would come in and I knew they had a
three year plan. I knew they were on their way
to med school or they were on their way to
(35:42):
physician assistant school, and so it was my choice to
either maximize them while I had them. You know and
get the best that I could out of them, but
be supportive of the fact that they were moving on.
And they responded well to knowing that as an organization,
I'm invested in your development and not just in what
(36:06):
I can get out of you for the time that
you're here, which is very different than the way previous
generations experienced working in the workplace. It was all about
what I could do for the organization, not what the
organization was doing for me, as other than giving me.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
A paycheck, rightn't giving me a paycheck every tirement? Yeah,
nobody's doing that anymore.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
This generation is looking for what's in it for me?
If I'm going to be here, even if I'm only
going to be here for three or five years, What
is in it for me? What kind of experience to
hear language like, what's the employee experience? You know, I'm like,
I didn't. That wasn't my experience coming into the workforce.
(36:54):
One came what my experience was? What kind of day
am I having? What environment is created for me? It was,
you know, come do the work that you're being paid
to do.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
Right. We have celebrations along the way, and like you said,
and go home.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah, nowadays they really are looking for the employee experience,
like what experience are you giving them while they're with
your organization. Yeah, leaders have to balance that and still
figure out how to get the work done at the
end of the day.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Exactly, at the end of the day, get the work
done because because in reality, we're all working for someone else.
We're all working to provide a service in some way
to someone else. It doesn't matter if you're in the
health industry, education, entertainment, it doesn't matter you're you're still
(37:46):
producing to put out to someone who's receiving or consuming
which you're distributing, or service you're providing, or research you're giving.
You know, everything is still you know, cyclical in some
kind of way. So while like you said that, the
leaders are really challenged, the employers have to bring that
type of balance and be able to answer those questions
(38:09):
because more and more of the younger generation are interviewing
the employer as much as the employer is interviewing them.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
Yeah, yeah, now you have really you know, continued on
your leadership path and I was so excited to hear
that you are part of the board of directors for
Chase Brexton healthcare. I congratulation, Thank you very much. Now
what portion of your that's a that's a huge that's
(38:43):
that's a big deal. Okay, that's a big deal.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I don't know if it was very exciting.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, that's like you should have had like a little
party with your family.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Or something was going to mean, it was definitely exciting
for me, and it has been an exciting journey.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
Oh my gosh, you're at the big girl table. Let
me tell you you are ware the sausage is made right,
that's where it's just it's just so I'm so happy
for you. And to be a young African American woman
at the table of this prestigious medical institution. I mean,
it's just it's amazing. So again, congratulations, congulations. Now what
(39:26):
tell us what portion of your leadership skills did you
attribute to acquiring this position or this role?
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So I think it was a combination of my experience
and healthcare, having had experience both from a clinical sort
of lens during my time as managing clinical departments, and
then my experience with quality and safety, which are foundational
to any healthcare organization. Aligning that with my education and
(39:58):
my background is strategic leadership specifically and sort of helping
organizations to plan for their future and establish their goals.
I think it was the combination of all of those
things that made this a good fit for me.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
Now, am I allowed to asks if it's termed or
you know how you have to you serve maybe two
or four years and then they vote again or different
boards do it differently, or is this im perpetuity so.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
It's a three year term and then I will have
to ren there?
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Okay, awesome, Well, I have no doubt they'll want you
there for a long time. It's just so exciting. And again,
if you haven't celebrated, you need to pour yourself a
little back champaign or red wine because you know, church
people drink red wine. That's good for the stomach, and
(40:56):
you better say it. It was the first miracle Jesus did,
and he did it was mama istomach and he said,
we're gonna drink wine in heaven too. Yeah, did you
read that scripture?
Speaker 2 (41:08):
I don't know if I read that.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Okay, there is one. I'm not joking, as we will
he will drink wine with us again.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
You're absolutely.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Yeah, he would thank you. Okay, Oh my goodness. Okay,
I have to know. I have to know because you're
you're very analytical in your thinking. You do have you know,
I said it jokingly at the beginning, but you do
have a very wide reputation as a woman who's professional,
(41:44):
who's no nonsense, but who's also personable, someone you know.
I've heard people far and wide say that they can
come to you, and you know, know that their confidence
is kept. You know, you'll know where the bear the
bodies are buried, so to speak, and you know all
of these wonderful and just excellent things that pertain to
(42:08):
your leadership, your leadership style, your leadership teaching and facilitation.
You have a very good reputation there too. Tell me,
if you want to be a little bit transparent, what
is your biggest challenge in your own personal leadership development?
Where do you see areas of growth and opportunity.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
M m hmm. That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Actually in the rest of the world.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Yeah, no, no, I'm really thinking about it because I can.
I can think of tons of challenges I have by
personal development. I'm thinking of those that impact you know,
leadership specifically, and I think what you stated about my
strengths are actually the things that lead to my greatest challenges. Right,
(43:04):
So you reference me being incredibly analytical, and I am
every you know thinking preference behavioral analysis I've ever done
identifies two things. I'm analytical and I'm structural, right, and
then everything else after that. So those are those are
the two lenses through which I approach most things. And
(43:26):
because of that, I sometimes struggle with being inspirational and
intuitive on that other side of leadership.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Right.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
So it's hard for me sometimes to do big picture thinking,
and so I tend to try to surround myself with
people who are much more naturally creative than I am,
much more conceptual than I, because I can very much
get lost in the weeds and the details of things.
(44:01):
That's one of my challenges. The other challenges, I think
are again related to the very same things you described
as strength. So yep, I am I'm like a vault right.
My expressiveness if you were thinking about behavioral patterns, my
expressiveness is pretty low. I'm a quiet individual. I process internally,
(44:22):
I am an introvert in the pure sense of the word.
Unless I am delivering training or having conversation with people
that I'm pretty comfortable with. So those things make me
wonderful for keeping the secrets right. You can tell it
to me and no, it's not going anywhere. But they
also become challenges. Sometimes when I should be expressing or
(44:44):
sharing ideas, I have a tendency to question myself whether
or not what I'm about to say is going to
add value, And if I can't readily identify the value
that it's adding, I will oftentimes not say it. And
so I think that sometimes that low expressiveness is a
(45:06):
leadership challenge that I have because I walk away with
ideas and thoughts that may have expanded a conversation where
I chose to keep them.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
To myself because you're analyzing it too, processing it for
and analyzing. Wow. Well, the fact that you can be
that reflective and no, I mean, I haven't heard anyone
really articulate you know as well as you have their
areas of growth, their areas of opportunity. So the fact
(45:37):
that you know what they are and can articulate it
so well is really interesting. I'm sitting here like.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Hmm, you know, I've been with me a long time.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
With you a long time. You know, you'd be surprised,
you know, how people have been with themselves for a
long time and still looking in the mirror saying who am? I?
Who am?
Speaker 2 (46:02):
We're always learning more about ourselves. There's always the opportunity
to know more about ourselves. And then, you know, making
sure that we are going to the designer himself and
getting his insight on who we are also helps to
identify where those opportunities are for development for me.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Mm hmmm, mm hmmm. So it's like, take let's let's
go back to the manufacturer. Right, Yeah, I get it,
I get it. So tell me about your company, Broken
Arrow Incorporated. I'm sorry, Polished.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
So it's my broken arrow. With broken Arrow, it's broken.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Arrow is something else. In fact, I actually think it
has something to do with an anime or something my child.
But Polished Arrow, that's it's something else stuck in my head.
But yes, tell me about Polish Arrow Incorporated.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
So, Polished Arrow is my organization and it is a
leadership development organization. It is really targeted at helping Christian
leaders to refine their skills so that they are making
the best impact possible in the world. Right. I like
(47:27):
to say that Polished Arrow bridges the gap between passion
and skill, because sometimes there's a gap. I can be
very passionate about something. I can be very passionate about
leading people and wanting to be in positions of influence,
and I don't always we don't always have the skills
that align with that passion. I think about that in
(47:48):
a ministry context is where I think I see it
most often, although it happens in healthcare too, and I
would imagine in other industries. Those are the two that
I just happen to be very familiar with having been
in theleadership and ministry for a long time. As well,
is that oftentimes we put people into leadership positions based
upon in ministry a gifting or an aptitude and then
(48:11):
thinking about it, you know, in healthcare, sometimes it's a
technical skill and ability, and we assume that because they
have this aptitude or gifting that they will automatically be
suited to leading people, and they often they're not. It's
a different set of skills that we don't have. And
so Polished Arrow is really focused on bridging that gap
(48:32):
between passion and skill and really just helping Christian leaders
and specifically, but all leaders that we encounter to be
able to develop the skills necessary to have a positive
influence and be an effective leader.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Oh, I totally get it. I totally get what you're saying.
How a lot of people in faith based institutions have
a past. They're excited, you know, maybe they want to
lead children's church or teach the little kids. But in
their maybe in their regular job, they're not a teacher
or an educator, you know, but they have a passion.
(49:13):
But but that skill for teaching, or that skill for
leading an area a department in your ministry, you really
need to develop that skill.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
Okay, okay, Now do you work when you work with
these individuals are they are you using a cohort model
or is it one to one you do six weeks courses?
How what does it look like in real time when
you're doing it.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
In real time? It looks like a little bit of
all of that. Because I am a certified coach, so
I do one on one coaching, leadership coaching, and development,
also do personal development coaching and a little bit of
spiritual coaching. And then I also do individualized workshops. We
talked about this earlier. When you're consulting, everything is customized
(50:06):
because I'm addressing the specific needs that have been identified
by this organization or by this leader, and then I
do have you know, a battery of already developed sort
of six week models that I use around different subject matters.
So it really does depend on what the need is
and who I'm marketing with.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
M now, I have been in a position, uh one
time when I was consulting for a large school district
and it was something similar to what you're describing in
the sense of, you know, matching skill with passions. Some
you know, educators were not They were skilled but not passionate,
(50:49):
and some were I felt they were passionate but not effective,
that's for sure, and had to balance, you know, very
gingerly sort of be strategic about helping them transition out
of the field because they had been in for so
long to the detriment of the children's education. Have you
(51:12):
been in a position where you've had to work with
the head leader and help them transition people out of
a role, or work with an individual to transition them
out of a role.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
I have, in fact, a lot long ago, I had
a contract with the government organization and the director was
experiencing some challenges with his team, and I, you know,
came in at the director's requested some professional development with
(51:49):
the team and sort of discovered that there were challenges
with the not just the team, but also perhaps some
challenges with the leaders. Stided and was able to provide
(52:10):
some one on one coaching that uncovered what was already there,
which was that this leader's skills and strengths were aligned
with a different type of work. But it took starting
(52:33):
with an assessment and being able to provide them with
data that they could look at, and then helping them
to process through what the data was saying, and then
aligning that with what they were experiencing and helping guide
them to a conclusion rather than me having to gingerly
(52:54):
say to them, this is not a good fit for you.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Discovery.
Speaker 2 (53:01):
Discovery, it's the most impactful kind.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yeah you say, you said it, I didn't, but I
agree with you.
Speaker 2 (53:14):
Uncover what's there?
Speaker 1 (53:18):
I like that, I like that? What for so far?
I want to know? How do you relax? What you
you have a lot on your plate? How do you
let your hair down? What are some of your hobbies?
What what makes you tune out the world? Please tell
(53:39):
me you have something, because if not, that's a whole
nother segment.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
That's probably a whole other segment of conversation. Yeah, I
don't really, I don't really have hobbies. I love to
this is the standard was but it's true. I love
to read. I'm always learning. I am ever learning another book,
(54:03):
another seminar, another webinar. So I'm always learning. I love
listening to music, and when I have downtime, those are
the things that I'm doing. I love spending time with
family and friends. But I realized, and you will understand this,
that as a high capacity individual, that I frequently keep
(54:28):
a lot of things on my plate that I am
juggling at one time, which doesn't present a lot of
opportunity for downtime and then finishing my program, which you
will also be able to relate to, I lost total
sight of anything that I like to do.
Speaker 3 (54:45):
Oh in that season life and so it's only been
has it even been two years, It's only been a year,
a year.
Speaker 2 (54:55):
And a half. So really just trying to get back
to what was it I used to like today?
Speaker 1 (55:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. When I was in
my doctor program, I don't know what happened like those years,
it's a blur. I don't know what happened in the world.
I don't know who shah John, like, I have no idea.
And then afterwards they the counselors or the uh they
(55:25):
call them counselors. What were they called our mentors in
the program, they told us that once we exited that
you may go through what you are experiencing now and
what I also experienced, which was the sense of now
what who? What are they like? Even the idea of
(55:46):
free time was startling. Absolutely many of people who graduate
their doctoral program and you know, they feel a sense
to of depression because it's like, okay, you you you're
so used to having something there, feeling your everything consuming your.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Life, and then all of a sudden, you have time.
You got time and space, and you honestly don't know
what to do with it. It's interesting. My chair was
the same way. She was like, lo, let's give yourself
six months to just get back to living. And it
was really it's been really challenging because I'm used to
having something that required my constant attention. There was always
(56:32):
something to do. I don't care what time of day
it was, what day and week it was, where it was,
there was always something looming over my head that I
should have been reading or working on or writing. And
when that's gone. There is this sense of loss and
a new we identify with who you are. And so
I'm still being quite candid. I am stilling.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
Okay, Well, I didn't know. I didn't know it was
that fresh. So I get it. This is a fresh
thing right here. So I get it, doctor Anderson. And
then you do feel such a sense of accomplishment, because
I mean, it's hard work. I told people, I put
it right up there with having kids and going through
boot camp. I mean, I'm a veteran and that's that's
(57:17):
writing right in mind there. It's like, you know, you
want to go into airport and hear them say paging, paging,
doctor Martin Paiging, and I want to run through and say,
that's me.
Speaker 2 (57:33):
It is an incredibly rewarding yeah experience, and I am.
I am so grateful.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah you should be. You've accomplished so much your like
I say, your reputation precedes itself, whether it's in the workplace,
whether it's as a consultant, a facilitator, a leader, a coach,
a minister, elder. I think I'm getting the titles right.
(58:08):
You know, your reputation really does precede you, and you
you should be proud, and so I've just privileged that
you talked. You took time to talk to me to like,
as you said, I like the way you put it. Wait,
high frequency people versus type a personality?
Speaker 2 (58:26):
Yeah, high capacity?
Speaker 1 (58:28):
Oh god, yes, yes, and I'm gonna do it to
the wheels fall off? Yeah why not? Why not? You
only get one life, might as well do what you
love and do it well.
Speaker 2 (58:41):
Well, it has been my absolute pleasure to have this
conversation with you. You know, leadership is something that I share
your passion for. So this has been good.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
Absolutely, we definitely have to have you back to do
more leadership talk. We want to talk about some leadership
styles and talk about some leadership faux pause and some
you know, some mentoring and leadership, all those good things.
So again, thank you again for joining me. It's been
(59:12):
such a pleasure. I hope you keep warm. Oh, we're
gonna try to fight through this winter.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
I believe it. We're just getting started, so I.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
Know, I know. Yet, Yeah, let's hunker down through it.
Yes we will. Well, thank you folks for tuning in tonight.
As always, stay warm wherever you are, and thank you
so much for listening, And as always, thank you for
(59:41):
being a team player.
Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Bots const
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