E10: The Grudge (2004)

Teen Horror Cast, where we watch and discuss horror movies from a teen’s perspective. This week we watched The Grudge, a classic of the J-Horror sub genre. 2004’s The Grudge is a remake of a Japanese film from 2002. Both films were directed by Takashi Shimizu. If you listened to our episode number 3 on another J-Horror film, The Ring, we will be handling this situation of an American remake of a Japanese original in a similar manner. We’ll be focusing the summary on the American film so that we can use English language audio but we will have some discussion about both versions later on in the episode.

Content warning: this film is pretty gruesome and touches on subjects such as domestic abuse.

Episode Transcript

Ethan (00:00):
Cute Intro Music Okay

Sage (00:22):
Hello and welcome to episode 10 of the teen horror
podcast where we watch anddiscuss horror movies from a
teens perspective. I'm your hostsage and I'm joined by my co
host and unpaid intern at mydad.

Ethan (00:36):
Hello everybody, Ethan here.

Sage (00:38):
This week, we watched the grudge a classic of the J horse
sub genre. But first, we wantedto kick things off with a new
segment a new segment.

Ethan (00:46):
What? What? That's right.
And we're calling this newsegment. Character development.
Welcome to characterdevelopment, everybody. We
wanted to call it this becauseit's sort of us filling in our
characters. Our backstory.

Sage (01:00):
Yeah, our personal lives.
Yeah. Do you want to start?

Ethan (01:04):
Sure. I don't know. This cup. Well, I don't know. I guess
that's it. I don't have anythingprepared.

Sage (01:11):
What's been going on?

Ethan (01:12):
Who wrote this script?
Yeah, well, it's fall inSeattle. And really, I guess
what that means now is thatwe're in the new California,
it's not raining at all. It's anintensely sunny and actually,
the air is full of smoke. Soyeah, I mean, but I feel like it
gives our voices an extraspecial growl. Yeah,

Sage (01:32):
that's, that's what it's all for. Yeah.

Ethan (01:35):
We really suffer for.

Sage (01:38):
So I have been pretty busy with school, as my fellow teen
listeners will know, hopefully.
And I you know, I'm on the swimteam. I am trying to get a club
started on my school, which iskind of harder than I thought it
would be. But a lot of movingpieces there. Yeah. But, so I've

(02:00):
been pretty busy lately, butit's been a good kind of physio
thing, because school reallyhelps me get into a routine,
which I need in order to doanything. Yeah, the summer is
fun, but I sleep 12 hours a day,I wake up at noon,

Ethan (02:19):
then I go to sleep, but like pretty early, or your
parents are slackers. You knowwho even are they? Yeah.
Luckily, they're big believersin letting teens get good sleep.
But yeah, that's cool. And it'sit's October now. So there's a
lot of cool horror movies on TV.
Yeah, watch, actually, you wantto see movie recently,

Sage (02:41):
I did. So I went with my friend to the theater the other
day to see the woman King, whichis very good movie. It's pretty
long, though. It was reallygood. And afterwards, I was
staying outside the theater withmy friend and their parents and
a few other parents of someother kids that had come. And
they were talking about themovie trailers for these movies
that had come before the actualmovie started. And a lot of them

(03:03):
were horror movies. And it wasfunny, because I could hear
these two dads talking to eachother being like, that trailer
was so scary. I don't know whythey even make those movies. Who
likes them? And I didn't sayanything. I didn't say anything.
Because

Ethan (03:19):
what kind of deviant would watch.

Sage (03:22):
They're like, yeah, they're like, That is
terrifying. But I guess theremust be some kind of market for
it, because they keep makingthem. And I'm standing here
like, I didn't say anything,because I didn't want to be that
person. That was like, by theway, actually, I have a podcast
about it. But you know,

Ethan (03:38):
yes, I think but it's fine. To say like, actually, I
love her. Yeah, no, I love beingscared. Yeah,

Sage (03:44):
I mean, that's obviously I'm not saying anything bad
about them. You know, peoplehave their preferences. It was
just funny because I guess theywere so different than you you
know cuz he's you are you lovemore

Ethan (03:57):
in the sense that they should concern over what types
of content their children wereconsuming.

Sage (04:01):
Yeah. Um,

Ethan (04:04):
for the record, I am hyper aware of we're gonna
content you can see him but Iguess my philosophy This is
actually kind of irrelevant,right? Like, we I don't know, do
we? We've talked about thisearly episodes, but you watch
horror films, and there'sthere's some stuff where I'm
like, This is not appropriate.
Yeah. Right. And for sure, likeyour brother was done it the

(04:25):
other night, and we were gonnawatch a different movie. And I
was like, No, this is probablytoo much for you. Yeah. And
actually kind of involve youguys in that discussion. It's
not like, like, you know, if I'mon the fence about it,
especially I'd be like, when doyou think you can handle this
particular content?

Sage (04:42):
Yeah, I think a really valuable opportunity is that you
let us decide, like, my brother,my younger brother, he was he
tried to watch the grudge withus twice, and both times he had
to bail pretty early on in thefilm just because he He knew
that it was getting too much forhim. And that's a really

(05:03):
valuable thing to know that, andthat's a skill that you wouldn't
be able to, to develop if yourparents were always sheltering
you. Yeah. And also, I don'twant to like, comment on
anybody's parenting because I amnot a parent, and you know, no
judgment. I'm not gonna judge.
Yeah, but I just think that itis a very valuable opportunity
to be able to regulate yourself.

Ethan (05:28):
It's a little bit like the idea of, I guess this
sometimes called Free Range kidsor whatever, where you let your
kids go farther afield. But, Imean, we don't really give it a
name. But we used to do stufflike that with you guys all the
time, where it'd be like, justhead out. It's fine. Yeah, I'm
like your brother goes out allover the place in the city.
Yeah. on public transport.

Sage (05:48):
Me, I do that too.

Ethan (05:49):
And I do too. I mean, you do as well, for sure. Maybe even
farther than he goes. So butyeah, I mean, and but it's sort
of the same thing with media,isn't it? Like, we're, we're
letting you kind of like travelaround the media environment.
And I mean, let's be realistic,like, you're gonna encounter
stuff online that is eitherappropriate or inappropriate,

(06:11):
and you have to be able tohandle that. And make good
decisions yourself. When we'renot there to do it for you. It
like, we can't filter everythingfor you all the time.

Sage (06:20):
It's like you, you have to know when you're on the
internet, that it is impossibleto avoid things that you don't
want to see, you can minimizethem. But you will always see
something that freaks you out orgrosses you out or whatever. And
if you've never had a experiencelike that before, because you

(06:42):
haven't had the chance to thenyou won't know what to do, and
it'll be this big thing. Andit'll really freak you out. You
know, and I mean, I've hadexperiences like that too. But
because I have a good sense of,I guess, Internet safety because
of you. It is something that I'mable to handle better. And I
like the other day, I had toexplain to my friend that those

(07:08):
like messages from unknownnumbers that are being like, Hi,
is this Sherry are bots andthey're not real,

Ethan (07:16):
or they're real? No, they're real people. Yeah, but
they're

Sage (07:19):
not. They're not looking for Sherry, you know, they're
looking for an old guy who islike, oh, my gosh, is this a
young woman I'm speaking toYeah, because the everything I
get those messages to and everysingle one is like, Hi, I'm 25 I
live in New York, but I'm fromVietnam or whatever. They're
hoping that you're like a weak

Ethan (07:37):
target. Anybody? They'll they'll target. No, I was
reading, you know, the, in thepaper, there was a woman that
was targeted. And really scammedout of tons of money. And yeah,
no, it's their equalopportunity. Scammers. Yeah,
terrible.

Sage (07:51):
So PSA, if a number you don't know, messages use
something like is this? Sherryfrom the PTA meeting or
whatever? Don't answer. Yeah,just block them. Because when
you answer, your number thengets put on more spam list
because they know you're anactive number. I like you're an

(08:12):
actual person.

Ethan (08:13):
Yeah, they I'm sure they keep track. So usually, yeah.
Well, they, they, once they haveyou on the hook, it depends how
long of a con they're running.
You're basically I mean, theseoperations run like businesses.
So yeah. The horrors of theinternet. Right? Is anything
else going on? You want to talkabout for character development?
It's brand new segment. So alittle rambley. We'll tighten it

(08:34):
up, folks. Okay, give us time.

Sage (08:37):
I watched fight club last night for the first time long
overdue. But also, I'm kind ofglad I waited until I was old
enough to appreciate the themeof it more, I think, yeah,
because of movies like that. Thefirst viewing is very important,
you know? And if you're viewingit before, you can entirely
understand it, which I mean, I'msure even now, like at my age,

(09:00):
there are things in the moviethat I missed.

Ethan (09:02):
Yeah. And also, I also want to say like not every 15
year old can handle that film.
And I think you can I'm gonna behonest, I think you can but you
know why? Like it's not and I'mnot talking about like the sex
stuff in it. I'm really talkingmore about the violence than it
which is really quite Yeah.
Graphic and, and kind ofhorrific, actually.

Sage (09:21):
Yeah, it's a really hardcore movie. Like I knew next
to nothing about fight club.
Besides the iconic The firstrule is you don't talk about
fight club. That's all I'd see.
No

Ethan (09:33):
spoilers here. Yeah, we can't spoil. Three two movies.

Sage (09:38):
Well, the grudge we just finished playing this video game
you and me. Yeah, brother. Yes.
Called the quarry. So I lovedit. Oh my god. It was amazing.

Ethan (09:48):
Well, I would call it cinematic horror video game.
Yeah. Basically recreates theexperience of a slasher movie
set in a summer camp.

Sage (09:57):
So we finished playing it And the thing I like the most
about it is that although thereare a lot of kind of long
stretches where you as theplayer, have no choice and
you're just watching thingshappen and play out, it never
feels like a cutscene you alwaysfeel involved in it because your
choices do have such a hugeimpact on the entire story. Like

(10:22):
a choice you can make at thevery beginning of the story can
affect you all the way up to theend. And you You never see it
coming. You know, it feels so,so real because every death and
every injury feels so likerealistic because you know,

(10:42):
somebody games, you go aroundkilling people people die, your
own character dies, and it's notthat big of a deal. But in the
quarter and

Ethan (10:49):
the quarter, you really feel every character. Yeah,
demise. Yeah, cuz I actuallyfeel like I was more invested in
those characters than I was inany of the characters than most
slasher films.

Sage (11:00):
Yeah, because you are them. You are the characters,

Ethan (11:04):
and you're making choices, and you really feel bad
because you're like, I havetaken this guy down the garden
path. Yeah, he's in such troublenow.

Sage (11:12):
Yeah, like I remember. I probably about half of our time
spent playing it was just on thepause screen debating about
which choice to make. Yeah.

Ethan (11:22):
Yeah, we had some great discussions. Like we had, like,
you know, what's the bestoutcome to kind of discussions
we had, like, moral and ethicaldiscussions like what should we
what's the right,

Sage (11:30):
yeah, we've had a lot of discussions about morality. And
yeah, just what would cause theleast harm? Because it's like
choosing the lesser of twoevils. Yeah. In certain points.
Yeah. No, there's no

Ethan (11:43):
choice. Yeah, here are the five terrible things you
have to choose from. Yeah, it'sa smorgasbord of bad choices.

Sage (11:49):
But it was really amazing.
And there must be like, endlessgameplay because our trajectory
of it was only one of Oh, yeah.
I'm sure many iterations. I

Ethan (12:00):
was talking to my friend Brendan, and he had just
finished playing it a coupledays ago. Yeah. And he was
playing online with some otherfriends. And he was telling me
he was he was like, oh, and Idid this thing. And I was like,
that we didn't have that happenat all. We weren't in that
place. We didn't have that scenehappen. And he's like, Oh, well,
what about like, no, no. And,and then, you know, I was like,

(12:23):
I told him, you know, this mightbe a spoiler, but I can tell you
what happened to us. At the end.
He's like, wow, I wish he wasnever in that place. Never had
that thing happen. So it's justlike, we had completely
different experiences. Yeah. Ijust think it's a really
fascinating, like new it.
Obviously, you know, I'm a bigvideo gamer. I believe video
games are completely valid andengaging medium. And I also

(12:49):
mean, a lot of ways. We're stillat the very early stages, I
think of a lot of the kind ofcinematic experience of video
games. But this was outstanding.
Do we totally recommend it lookforward to doing play more games
in that serious?

Sage (13:00):
Yeah. And it teaches you to think to stop and think about
what you should be doing? Yeah,you know, yeah, there's a lot of
video games, you don't have timeto think about everything, you
just have to act, but with thisone, their life is in your
hands. And you feel that a lotmore because there's such fully

(13:22):
fleshed out characters. And theyeach have their own lives and
relationships with each otherand stuff like that. And when
when one of them dies, or losesan arm or whatever, you feel it
because it's like, that was you.

Ethan (13:37):
So maybe we'll do an episode just on the court. I
think it'd be a fun thing. Yeah,yeah. Let let us

Sage (13:42):
know if that sounds interesting. Yeah, I'll probably
do it anyways, if you say no.

Ethan (13:48):
Okay, what else? What's up? Should we jump into our
summary? Yes, let's get right onto the summary.
Before we get into our summary,a quick content warning, as is

(14:08):
traditional, this movie doesfeature content involving
domestic abuse. And we alsowanted to warn you it has some
pretty gruesome visuals and somegore. Just if if you haven't
seen the movie, and you'rethinking about it, just be
forewarned. And as always, wewill be spoiling absolutely
everything in sight. So pleasego watch the movie if you are so
inclined. And come back whenyou're ready. We will be

(14:30):
waiting. We'll be waiting. Andnow on to the summary.

Sage (14:35):
2004 is the grudge is a remake of a Japanese film from
2002. Both films were directedby Takashi Shimizu. If you
listen to our episode numberthree on another Jay horror film
The Ring, we will be handlingthe situation of an American
remake of a Japanese original ina similar manner. We'll be
focusing the summary on theAmerican film so that we can use

(14:56):
English language audio, but wewill have some discussion about
both aerations later on in theepisode,

Ethan (15:01):
we want to also note the grudge plays with our perception
of film time, presentingsequences out of order and
jumping back and forth inchronology. This is
intentionally disoriented.

Sage (15:12):
The film opens with a dazed looking Bill Pullman
playing Professor Peter Kirk.
He stands on the balcony of hisTokyo apartment as his wife
watches from their bed. As theyown a dream he turns away from
her before pitching forward overthe edge. falling to his death.

Ethan (15:38):
The film cuts to Yoko, a young Japanese woman making a
social services house call on anolder American woman Emma, who
appears to be suffering fromdementia.

(16:05):
The house Emma lives in may oncehave been nice, but it is now
filthy inside debris and trashstrewn everywhere. Investigating
sounds from upstairs, Yoko makesher way through a closet ceiling
into the attic only to encountera terrifying pale faced ghost of
a woman.

Sage (16:30):
In the next scene, we meet Karen Davis, an American student
played by Sarah Michelle Gellar,who volunteers at the same care
center as Yoko.

(16:57):
Karen is dispatched by hersupervisor Alex to the same
house Yoko disappeared into.
There she meets Emma morecatatonic than ever and still

(17:18):
alone in the debris and filth.
This time, however, the house isalso inhabited by black cat and
a little boy who gives his nameas Toshio.

(17:47):
After calling into the carecenter for guidance on the
situation, Karen is confrontedby a malevolent and shadowy
apparitions descending from theceiling, apparently to kill the
old woman Emma.

Ethan (18:03):
The film cuts to what we soon realize is the happier
past. A for rent sign hangs onthe same house. The Williams
family consisting of a morealert and ambulatory Emma, the
old woman, her adult son Matt,daughter, Susan and daughter in
law Jennifer are shown the houseby a Tokyo real estate agent.

(18:34):
During the tour, the mother Emmaseems captivated by the house
and stares intently toward theattic. What can be up there to
fix her attention so.

(18:54):
Only days into their stay at thehouse. Matt returns home to find
his wife Jennifer layingcatatonic on a bed menaced over
by a ghostly little boy whoyells like a cat.

(19:29):
This ghostly visit is the lastthing either Matt or his wife
Jennifer ever see.

Sage (19:43):
Jumping forward and time again. We see the American
student Karen's Care Centersupervisor Alex, played by Ted
Raimi has gone to find out whytwo of his volunteers are
missing.

(20:18):
entering the house after nobodyanswers he finds Emma Williams
has died on the bed. While Karensits huddled in a corner,
unresponsive, eyes fixed on theceiling.

Ethan (20:29):
Karen awakes in a hospital where her boyfriend
waits for hera police officer detective
Nakagawa, arrives to questionher about her experience in the
house.

(21:03):
She identifies the boy she sawin an old photo, we find out
that something happened in thathouse three years ago but what

Sage (21:11):
we cut to the other Williams family member Susan in
her empty corporate office.
As she leaves work for thenight, she is scared by strange

(21:32):
noises and dark hallways. Sherushes into the stairwell only
to flee a menacing figurecrawling up the stairs from
below.

(22:08):
fleeing to her home and hidingunder the covers in her
apartment yields only momentarysafety as she is snatched away
into oblivion by ghostly womanthat appears under the blanket.

Ethan (22:20):
The remainder of the film is a series of Clue finding
scenes where Karen piecestogether the actual sordid
history of the house, shediscovers that a horrific murder
suicide occurred there. A wifeKayako obsessed with a
professor, the American wholoved to his death in the first
scene, is accused of cheating byher husband, who subsequently
kills her, their son, the cat,and finally himself.

Sage (22:41):
Things culminate when Karen's boyfriend goes to find
her at the old house, and shemust go rescue him from the
clutches of the ghost Kayako.

(23:02):
She tries to burn down the housebut ultimately fails. Her
boyfriend dies and she is keptin the hospital where she is
haunted by the ghostly soundsand presence of Kayako.

Ethan (23:19):
No, right. Very good. You know, before we jump into
overall impressions and the restof our show, I just wanted to
mention that Ted Raimi, whoplays the plays Alex, the care
center? supervisor is also inthe quarry. Yep. Right. So all
right. Should we just jump inthen? Right.

Sage (23:41):
So I'm sure you have a lot to say about this, too. But I
just wanted to say that thatsummary might have seemed pretty
long and confusing. But themovie is even more long and
confusing. Yeah. And theJapanese version is like,
several that yeah, it's somecrazy, like, distorted. It's

(24:03):
really, I mean, I like it. Butalso, for me, personally,
characters in movies aresomething that I find very hard
to track and names. I don't knowwhy. I'm just not good at that.
And so for both the American andthe Japanese films of the
grudge, I was like, What isgoing on? Yeah,

Ethan (24:23):
so Okay, let's contextualize this for a moment.
First of all, we haven't evenmentioned there's actually a
2020 remake of The Grudge aswell, which I have not seen. And
it did not get great reviews.
That has never stopped me fromwatching. But so I'm probably
gonna watch it at some point.
But this Yeah, so this was aremake, two dozen for remake

(24:45):
with an American cast stillbased in Tokyo, interestingly,
and have the Japanese originalfrom 2002. But the Japanese
original in 2002 was itself aremake more or less of an
earlier and I don't know whenthe earlier film was done if it
was like, late 90s or early2000s. But it was like a made

(25:06):
for TV movie. Yeah, which isalso called Juwan. But it's
called like do on the curse.
Yeah, yeah. So this, like, it'sreally fascinating to me that he
like, this guy is basicallylike, done the same story at
this point in 2004, like threetimes. Yeah, right. And that's
kind of a cool opportunity. It'slike, okay, I'm gonna keep

(25:26):
refining this movie first forTV, and a slightly bigger budget
for you know, Japanese horrorfilm. Domestic Japanese horror
film. Yeah. And then, like,slightly bigger budget for like,
kind of a Hollywood production.
Yeah. Yeah, pretty interesting.
And then there's a bunch ofsequels which I honestly, tell
you, I have not seen all ofthose. So yeah,

Sage (25:47):
so the franchise is pretty confusing. Yeah. As is the movie
itself. Um, so you saidsomething? Well, we were
watching the Japanese versionthat I remembered. And was it
what do you mean insightful? Itwas so witty and insightful. Now
you're talking about how theJapanese version of the film is

(26:08):
more like a bunch of separatepeople's stories that all
connect to the house? And right,like, the cursor inside the
house? Yeah. Why, whereas theAmerican version is more of a
straight story. Because a lot ofthe stuff is removed and kind of
pared away.

Ethan (26:29):
Yeah. Yeah. All right, let's, let's tighten up a little
bit. We're going to just talkabout overall impressions, and
then we'll, we'll get into someof the weeds later on. But what
were your overall impressions ofthe American film?

Sage (26:40):
When I first watched it, it reminded me a lot of the
ring, because the structures andthe plot of both movies are very
similar. You know, there's thisweird thing that's happening.
And then there's this lady whodoes all this research about it.
And research montage. Yeah,pretty much, and you're finding
out what's happening along withthe character with the

(27:01):
protagonist. So it's kind oflike a little mystery as well,
where you're trying to connectthe dots of while this stuff is
happening and why to thesespecific people. They both

Ethan (27:11):
involve a specific note will say it's time based curse,
but there's a curse that haskind of an infectious nature to
it, right? Like the ring spreadsthrough videotape the grudge
spreads from just being in thehouse. Yeah.

Sage (27:23):
And both have to do with familial relations, which I
think is also interesting. Andthere's another thing which is
that in the ring, Samira orAsako, for the Japanese one,
she's evil. She's not amisunderstood middle child.
She's just evil. Yeah.

Ethan (27:41):
And that really is about her more on the American
version. Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh,my God, you're not supposed to
let her out.

Sage (27:46):
Yeah. And then in the grudge. Kayako. She does seem
less than nice. You know.

Ethan (27:53):
Yeah, she's well, I mean, there is something intensely
malevolent about her. Yeah,sure.

Sage (27:58):
Like, I don't remember who it is. But in one of the scenes
in the American version, someoneis flipping through all these
photos of Peter Kirk the

Ethan (28:08):
right? Yeah. Oh, yes.
Okay.

Sage (28:11):
She's in them and Kayako is in the background of every
single one. Yeah, looking athim. Yeah. And that is really
creepy. That's the she's astalker. Pretty much. Yeah. And
her husband isn't that greateither because he kills
everyone. So that's kind ofinexcusable. So

Ethan (28:28):
it goes husband, right?
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Two things tosay about that really quick. I
just want to one more parallelthere is the flipping through a
sequence of photos. Yes. Right.
Which okay is also just of theera that you would have a lot of
photos printed out. Oh,

Sage (28:41):
and so anyone who's cursed from being in the house when
their photo is taken their faceis

Ethan (28:49):
actually in the grudge though their eyes just get
weird. Yeah, that's that's likethat's somebody's it's like a
Photoshop brush.

Sage (28:55):
Yeah. Those are some parallels I saw and we were both
wondering about why that is ifthat's just a common thing in J
horror that Yeah,

Ethan (29:06):
I mean, I'm sure we can look at American films or you
know, Western horror, you know,mythic traditions. Yeah. And say
like, oh, well, there's alwaysthe the weird guy, right? The
weird boy, right? Like Fridaythe 13th has a weird boy. He's
an outcast. Something's wrongwith him and goes on to although
I guess you can say like,actually, serial killers are

(29:27):
kind of like, there are thosetropes, right? Yeah, those just
seems so on the nose to me,right. There's so similar those
two movies.

Sage (29:34):
Yeah, it's like it's like gingersnaps and Jennifer's, but

Ethan (29:37):
okay, at the same time, though. Yes. And like those two
films like there if you look atthe beats between those two
movies gingersnaps in Jennifer'sBody or the ring and the grudge
if you if you were to make alist of the beats a lot of them
are like I shouldn't say thebeats but the the basic plot, I
guess they look really similar.
The beats of this story Thoughlike sort of the big scenes,

(30:00):
they seem different to me. Andalso I want to come back to the
thing that you said about Tiagoversus Sadako. Right. So Sonico
definitely malicious and evil.
Yeah, there's the Maraspecifically, I moved into the
game more. Yeah. And theAmerican like, I look at her. I
remember there's a scene in thering, where Samar is like,

(30:21):
looking into a video camera thatshe has been recorded in the
hospital. Yeah, you're doingexperiments with her. And she
just says something mean ormalevolent or scary, right? And
you're like, wow, she but she'slike thinking about it. Right.
She's thinking about doing evil.
Yeah. She's intentional aboutit. Whereas I feel like Kayako
is like, she almost embodiesjust obsession when she's alive.

(30:42):
Yeah. And, and sort of the flipside of obsession, I guess,
which would be like obsessiverevenge. Yeah. When she's dead.
Right. She's still obsessed. Butshe's obsessed with like,
whatever, just taking revenge orshe has the grudge.

Sage (30:58):
Yeah. And I think so.
Throughout the movie, you getmore clips of what happened.
Yeah, to birth, the grudge. Andit kind of it falls into place.
And it's a pretty horrificstory. And you can just tell
that the grip so they say in thebeginning of the movie, there's

(31:19):
text that appears on the screen.
It's like when a person dies inthe midst of a powerful rage. A
grudge is born. Yes.

Ethan (31:29):
And I felt like that was a little bit of like, AF. It's
like when you come up with anacronym. And then you figure out
what the acronym means after thefact. Yeah, like, Okay, what is
the grudge? Where does it comefrom? I can see like, the
director is finished, like,whatever. It's all done movies
done. They're like we need upfront up. Yeah, we need some
text.

Sage (31:49):
So I mean, I think that's a pretty cool idea. Yeah,
totally agree. So they say thatin the very beginning, which
immediately already sets you upfor what you are going to
expect. And it's just such ahorrific story, especially
because of the little boy. He'smaybe five, I'd say, and he's
done nothing. And neither hasthe cat. Yeah. But they both

(32:11):
just die. Yeah. It's pretty sadstory. You know? It is, like
really intense.

Ethan (32:19):
Okay, so I guess we're still in the overall impressions
section for this, what I wouldlike to bring up, which is that
this movie is presented in aseries of a chronological out of
sequence scenes, right? Soyou're kind of always jumping
back and forth. And you don'talways know when you are, yeah,
in the chronology in the filmtime. I went back, actually. And

(32:41):
I read the Roger Ebert review ofthis movie from when it came
out. Yeah. And he was not a fanof that technique. He was like,
it was just annoying. Like, it'snot successful. I actually like
it. Okay, I like I personally,am totally down with it. And I
don't know if it's because thetype of media that we consume

(33:03):
today, or we're used to thingsbeing a little disjointed or
whatever, but I was able to rollwith it. Yeah, bother. Yeah. But
how did you feel watching it forthe first time? Because I mean,
I've probably seen it aboutthree or four times. Yeah,

Sage (33:13):
so watching it for the first time, I wasn't completely
lost. But I was I was just kindof wondering, how do these all
connect. And by the end, it wasclear. So it's kind of like a
little game that you play as yougo along, trying to figure out
why they showed this and thenthis and then what's happening
and how it all falls into place.
In the end, an interesting

Ethan (33:34):
aspect of that is as you go back in time, terrible things
are happening. There's basicallylike three generations of people
that have been in the house orno, not three generations, but
two occupancies. Right. There'sthe original Japanese couple,
the one that they birth thegrudge. Yeah. And then there is
the American family. And thenthere's the period after the

(33:55):
American family dies, where it'sjust Emma, which I guess isn't
that long after the family does.
Okay, so you you slowly sort oftraveled back in time over the
course of the film and you youkind of are trying to figure out
like where what's going on likeis that the American guy there?
Is it that you know, the thecurrent occupants of the house?
Do they cause this problem? Andthen finally, you you're kind of
seeing like, No, you're gettingthese other flashbacks. Where
you know, where did that littleJapanese boy come from? And you

(34:17):
realize there's this otherfamily? Yeah, but in the
American film, you don't put allthose pieces together right
away. Yeah, but in the Japanesefilm right away the very first
scene Do you remember? Yes, sothat's they reveal the whole
thing is a huge

Sage (34:31):
difference. I think he's exactly backwards. Yeah. In the
Japanese film, the one beforethe American one. The they start
out with showing the guy thatgoes husband killing her

Ethan (34:44):
pretty much in a really like Russo's Yeah, it's really

Sage (34:49):
scary and intense, and it's the very first thing so
that sets the tone for theentire movie, and that makes it
less of a mystery and more of ohmy god, he's just killed his
wife and why.

Ethan (35:02):
Yeah, and I think that's another way in which the
Japanese version it is you'retotally right. Actually, I
didn't even think about that.
But it's it really is not asmuch of a mystery. It's just
sort of more of consequences.
Yeah, like, Okay, we're gonnaget it out of the way this
happened. Yeah. Now it's evil.
Yeah.

Sage (35:18):
After that, they show the ramifications that had on all
these different people who wereinvolved with the house. Yeah,
at some point. So I think theykind of the two of us have
different approaches. Yeah,that's

Ethan (35:33):
interesting. It's different from the ring in that
regard. But really alsofascinating. Same director,
right. Yeah, he takes it. It'slike he has this like bag of
Lego pieces or something. And hebuilds two totally different
structures from them. Yeah.

Sage (35:52):
So we watched Deleted Scenes from both the Japanese
and the American remake? Yeah,this is deleted scene in both
movies. Where Matthew is kind ofpossessed, I guess.

Ethan (36:06):
Yeah. So just to recap, Matthew is the this is
confusing. people stick with us.
But hopefully you've seen themovie at this point. Maybe
recently, Matthew's the Americanguy moved to Tokyo to work. His
mom AMA, whose cat like kind ofhas dementia or something. And
then his wife Jennifer is livingwith him in the house.

Sage (36:23):
Yes. And so it's kind of implied in this deleted scene
that Matthew has been taken overby the spirit of Kaya goes
husband, right? Because when hepasses a mirror, instead of his
reflection, it's kind of goeshusband's reflection. Oh, that's
right. I forgot about that.
Yeah. And he's dragging hiswife, Jennifer by the hair, I
think or something with thisemotionless face on on the top

(36:46):
floor, and he's dragging herinto another room. And they do
that they did that scene forboth the Japanese and American
movies. And both times they cutit out. I just decided to not
have it in the movie. And I'mwondering, did the director try
it again? And then decide again,that he evidently right,

Ethan (37:06):
or that it didn't work or didn't fit? Or it was too much?
I'm curious why you're right.
Like, why film a scene twicethat ends up on the cutting room
floor both times?

Sage (37:16):
What were your thoughts about that scene? How do you
think it would have made themovie worse? If it was in it?

Ethan (37:22):
I would like it less, I think, well, first of all, I
kind of like that the husband isnot a big player. After the
whole murder. You do have asense maybe sort of possessing
Matthew even without that scene,there's some other kind of
implication. Yeah, you know,Matthews possessed. But the
movie comes off as more of likea gothic horror movie in the
sense that in a like a gothichorror story, there's always

(37:44):
like a malevolent house, youknow? Yeah. dark, creepy house
on the hill, like in psycho.
Right? It feels like that. Itfeels like it's really of this
place. That is scary. And I feellike if it had been the husband
possessing him,

Sage (37:57):
it would, it would have new implications, I think about
how it all worked. And what wasreally going on because of this.
I mean, because if they threwthat in, I would then be
thinking, How come? Some peoplearen't like, what are the rules?
Yeah. And I know, I know thatthere are some cases where it
doesn't make sense to ask aboutthe rules or the logic. But for
this one, I think there are atleast a few sure, even if they

(38:20):
are loosened.

Ethan (38:22):
I mean, I think the best movies. It's not codified. It's
not Yes. Although in the ring,it's very codified, right. It's
like you have

Sage (38:29):
seven days. Yeah. Like a contract.

Ethan (38:32):
Yeah, it's like please rewind. Yeah, otherwise, you'll
be turned 50 cents. And you'lldie.

Sage (38:37):
Yeah, pretty much.
Yeah, and in the Japaneseversion, there's just so much
that I heard.

Ethan (38:52):
Was it? Was it? That creepy noise that you always
hear on the Oh my god. Oh mygod.

Sage (38:59):
Yeah. So there's this sound that occurs in both
movies, the Japanese andAmerican and it's the sound that
GEICO makes, or I guess her goeslike her angry ghostly,

Ethan (39:11):
intense vocal fries.
Yeah.

Sage (39:15):
Yeah, here before

Ethan (39:17):
she gets really slow. And really, it is

Sage (39:21):
amazing. I love it.
Because it's not overdone. Yeah,I agree. It's not like you're
hearing it all the time. Andwhen you do hear it, you know
that suddenly serious is aboutto happen.

Ethan (39:31):
I think it's really effective because it's clearly
coming from the human throat.
Yeah, it sounds like thatperson's messed up. Yeah, it's
just a creepy sound. And at onepoint, actually, in the Japanese
behind the scenes, you see thedirector making that noise.
Yeah, he's like telling me he'sdragging the accuracy like, and
then you're gonna hear the soundand he like, just does it. Yeah.
That's where that came from. Andit's

Sage (39:51):
funny because in the interview with a director, he
said something about how I thinkthe reason that he chose that
sound or the reason that kind ofgo was making that sound is
because of her crushed vocalcords or something or something
that makes sense. Yeah. BecauseI remember him saying that it's
because of something that herhusband did to her. Oh, when he
killed her, like slit her throator crushed your vocal cords or

(40:15):
something like that. Yeah. Andthat is the sound that she made.
Yeah. And you never reallypicked that up during the movie
unless you were to make.

Ethan (40:24):
I feel like there might have been a deleted scene
related to that something. Yeah,yeah, I

Sage (40:27):
think there might have been, and that I think that
would have made a little moreapparent. But without watching
that interview, or any of thedeleted scenes, I would only be
able to guess at why Yeah, shemakes sense. But I think knowing
that knowing that what thedirector had in mind was that it
was because her throat had beencrushed or something just makes
it so much scarier. You feel badfor her a little bit. Yeah, more

(40:48):
than a little bit.

Ethan (40:50):
There's also some other I don't know if these are
differences, maybe they're notdifferences from the ring in the
ring. It doesn't matter whereyou are. You can't get away.
Yeah, I think that's okay.
That's one of the creeping dreadkind of things about the both
movies is you know, you justdoesn't matter where you are.
You cannot escape. Yeah,exactly. Your doom is coming.

Sage (41:06):
Like as soon as you're in the house. Yeah. You you're
cursed you you're I don't know.
Someone. Guy ago was holding agrudge against you. Yeah. And
because he came in he went toher house, I guess. How dare
you. And I would say my favoritescene for both the Japanese and
American movies is when thesister she's getting off from
work. And Kayako is trying toget her or Jeff seen basically.

(41:30):
Yeah, pretty much. So in theJapanese one, this is their
meets Kayako. While she's in thebathroom, I think of her office
building office building. Andshe has this little charm on her
purse that kind of go or theghost of Kayako I guess grabs
and tears off of her purse orgets caught? I don't know
something. Yeah. And so in theJapanese wants you runs home.

(41:50):
She goes through apartment. Shehides under the covers. And
she's shaking. I really rememberhow bad she was shaking because
I remember thinking how hard itmust have been to get herself to
do that. Yeah. It was reallycool. Yeah. I love that actor
actually in the Japanese one.
Yeah. But so she was reallyterrified. And then she lifts up
the covers, and she sees thelittle charm that she had left

(42:13):
in the office building and thenKayako gets her

Ethan (42:16):
Yeah, that's a great reveal.

Sage (42:18):
That's a great word is really good. Because you can see
the moment in her eyes and onher face when she realizes that
something is under

Ethan (42:25):
there. Yeah, because at first there's there's almost
like a double beat there whereshe's relieved to find her toy
or her little charm but alsothen immediately horrified
because it has implications.

Sage (42:35):
So something my brother said that I remember around this
time, so he was watching theAmerican version in which
basically the same thing happensexcept she's in the stairwell
instead of the bathroom. Thatwas I think when my brother had
stuck watching because he saidthat your your bed is supposed
to be the safe place. You know,like when you're in bed at
night. You're all snuggled upunder your covers. That's when

(42:56):
nothing can get you That's itshatter that illusion. Has guy
goes getting her from under thecovers. She's under the covers
with her. You know,

Ethan (43:06):
it's funny, like even as an adult, you carry that with
you. Yeah, carry that sense ofyour bed is a safe place, right?
Yeah, exactly. And if it's notif that's taken away by the
ghost, then yeah,

Sage (43:17):
yeah, it's, it's pretty scary. For the Japanese one, the
special flags definitely weren'tas good. When Kayako descends
from the ceiling, it's more ofjust a black spot. On the
screen. There's

Ethan (43:30):
a lot of like, black Photoshop brushfield about some
of the CG

Sage (43:34):
and the American one. I think the CG is better. But that
doesn't. It doesn't reallydetract from the effect.

Ethan (43:41):
And you know, a lot of the effects are like heavy
makeup on a five year oldJapanese boy. Yeah, pretty good
pancake, white pancake makeup.

Sage (43:48):
Yeah. And it can be scary.
Some of the most tense momentsare when it's really quiet. And
then you hear like the vocal frythat.

Ethan (44:06):
And I think both films have some some of those very
unique necessarily to Japanesecinema. But it's certainly
prevalent in Japanese cinemawhere you will hold on a scene
Yes, even after a characterwalks in or out of that scene.
Yeah. And you'll just hold in avery static scene of the house,
or the hallway or whatever.

Sage (44:26):
I really liked that about Japanese films. I think that
sometimes American films can goreally fast. Something always
needs to be happening. But Ithink it shouldn't be like, I
think that you should be able tohave time to digest what just
happened and appreciate the setand like prepare yourself for
what's coming next. Those littlemoments of

Ethan (44:48):
let's just talk about the stuff for a second. Yeah, it
takes place mostly in a house inTokyo in both the American
version and the Japaneseversion, very similar house on
maybe identical house, I don'tknow and it actually was filmed
on location in a house. Yeah.
And in an attic unbelievably.
Like, there are some reallycramped, pretty cramped. Yes,
there are some pretty nuttybehind the scenes. The actor up

(45:12):
in the attic. Yeah, they do agreat job basically establishing
a good sense of space. Yeah, inthe house. I don't think I could
draw a floor plan of the house,but I never felt lost. Yeah,
other than like, maybe when yousort of feel a little
discomforted by like, where'sthe attic? The attic entrance is
in the closet? And it's allweird. And scary. Yeah, right.

(45:36):
But you're not you don't feellike totally like, is this
really part of the house? Or isthis a set? You don't feel like
you're thrown off?

Sage (45:43):
Yeah, yeah. And the part of the closet is pretty scary
because a lot of people haveaddicts like attic doors and
their closets you know andactually like we do we do ya and
so you'll go W creepy now, nevergone either again. But you'll go
the first like social careworker that goes to check on

(46:04):
Emma. She goes into the closetand kind of up through the
attic. But before that she findsthat the closet is all taped up.

Ethan (46:15):
Yes. Yeah. Tell there's something in right

Sage (46:17):
hiking. And that is so weird. You know, it's just like,
How could that happen? Why wouldsomeone do that? Yeah. And she
opens and she finds the cat andthe little boy, Toshio,

Ethan (46:30):
Toshio, super creepy.
Little kids as ghosts. Supercreepy. Yeah, the way he speaks
very, very recently about sheOh,

Sage (46:40):
yeah. That's like the only thing he ever says,

Ethan (46:43):
than when he's like opening his mouth and a cat
sound comes out, which he does.
does very well. Yeah,

Sage (46:48):
yeah. Yeah, I really like that the way the house is set up
as you come in, in the frontdoor. And then there's the
stairs that lead up to thesecond floor. Pretty close, like
right in front of you when youcome into the house. Instead of
a banister on top of like, rods,I guess it's like a solid wall.
But then there's this whole

Ethan (47:10):
yeah, there's like a little like people. Yeah, right.
And like you can see upstairs.

Sage (47:16):
Yeah. And then the, if someone's upstairs, they can see
down. And it's like that forboth movies. And Toshio is
always like, up there lookingdown at whoever has just come in
the door had a holding the yeah,there's like a jail cell is kind
of like once you realize thathe's actually dead. He's a
ghost. Yeah, it becomes a lotmore scary. And it's just such a

(47:38):
tragedy, you know, because suchsuch a young kid. And actually,
there's this. There's scenes inboth, I think both movies that
kind of insinuate that he wasdrowned by his father and the
brass tacks.

Ethan (47:52):
And I think we see that in the at least in the Japanese
sequence. Yeah. And in bothmovies, there's there's ghost
effects that happen. I don'tremember in the Japanese movie
or not. But in the Americanversion, the director of the
care center, Alex, he goes tocheck on Karen at one point.
He's shocked he finds Emma isdead. You know? Yeah, whoa,

(48:15):
troubles and then he goes backand goes on about his life. But
the ghost of Yoko hunts himdown. That's how the grudge
manifests for him. And yeah,she's sopping wet. Yeah. Is a
bloody No, that is a reallymissing her jaw.

Sage (48:33):
Yes, that is the thing. I think that like, they are
actively. I mean, no, I knownothing is objective. But if it
was, I would say that is thescariest effect. Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, so I don't so she'sobviously like, dead. And it's

(48:53):
just her ghost. She's white. Butshe's wandering around the care
center. Yeah, that Alex works.
And it's like, after hours, justsuddenly, he's like, Yo, go,
where are you in London for you.
But he's talking to her to herback because he's facing away
from him. And then she turns andher jaw. So actually, the
detectives I think they find ajob in the attic. Obviously,

(49:14):
right and yeah, and you're like,I wonder who's that? Is it my
son by

Ethan (49:17):
the way? None of this ever does get really explained
about like, why is your jawthere? Was it missing? Was it
just like, does it ghost kind ofrip you apart? Is it like
physically violent? Because halfthe time that goes sort of just
seems to scare people to death?
Yeah, right. Yes. Here's CleaDeVos. character to death. She
scares me to death, basically,or sucks out their soul or
something? I don't know.

Sage (49:38):
Yeah. But then her jaw is missing, which is interesting.
And it's just this horrificthing. Because then, like a long
time later in the film, sheturns around and then her jaw is
just ripped off and her tongueis like hanging. Yeah. It's
yeah, it's really gross. Andit's great. Also great effect,
because she's just shufflingalong and at first you're like,

(49:59):
oh, maybe she's tired or inshock or something? And she
turns around her faces.

Ethan (50:04):
I think that was a practical effect. I'm not sure
it

Sage (50:06):
was. I saw a picture kind of behind the scenes where she's
like posing. That's right. Yeah,I think what Ted Raimi, right,
yeah. And she still has thatstuff on her. So I must be,
like, practical effects. Yeah,it's really well done, though.
real practical effects. Yeah, Ithink in like almost every case,

(50:27):
practical effects just make itfeel more real. And it also
helps the actors to you know, toactually be able to see what
they're supposed to be lookingat.

Ethan (50:41):
Let's move on to our next section. Is a turn the lights on
scary?

Sage (50:45):
For me, I would say yes.
Definitely. Not as much as thering was but then again, I think
I might have been scared of thering just because of my age. I

Ethan (50:53):
don't know. The ring this movie. 100% Turn the lights on
scary for me still to this day.
Really? Oh, if I watched thering down here alone at night?

Sage (51:02):
No, that would be a lot.
Yeah, it

Ethan (51:08):
wasn't, but I would be.
Yeah, you know, sometimes,

Sage (51:11):
there's a little thing that it's supposed to like a
universal a kid experience islike running up the stairs after
you turn the lights off. Sowhatever is chasing you doesn't
get you Yeah, I used to do that.
And then I would force myselflike when I got a little older,
I would force myself to walkslowly and it was on bearable. I
was like, internally screaming,but I was like, I have to go

(51:37):
slow to prove to myself thatnothing is gonna happen. I've
abandoned that I've sinceabandoned because I don't get

Ethan (51:44):
like that's the three phases. You're like, now I'm I'm
mature. Now. I'm gonna walkslowly. Yeah.

Sage (51:53):
Yeah, because I don't get scared enough to do that as
often anymore. Yeah, but when Ido, it's not worth it to. You
know, I'm just like, man, like,if something is out there, then
I'm gonna run.

Ethan (52:05):
Yeah. I feel it. I feel it's it. I also if I ever feel
scared like that, like I willforce myself to

Sage (52:12):
walk slow. Yeah, but I what really gets me is because
we're

Ethan (52:16):
we we have we come from stubborn, stubborn family.

Sage (52:23):
You're selling guests for them?

Ethan (52:24):
No, Ghost. And if there is it's gonna get me. That's
fine. I don't care.

Sage (52:29):
Yeah. You died trying to

Ethan (52:32):
as long as as long as I die trying to prove a point.

Sage (52:35):
Yeah. And I would tell him, I would try to rationalize
it. Like they're just lookingfor a chase. Like talking about
this thing that was even there.
Just try to like, calm myselfdown. You know,

Ethan (52:48):
but what really goes behind it

Sage (52:52):
is not fun. Yeah,

Ethan (52:54):
pulling out all the creepy stops and you're just
walking this guy? No, I don'twant to anymore. I don't want to
get to you anymore.

Sage (53:01):
Yeah. But the one that really gets me is the scene in
the stairwell in the Americanone,

Ethan (53:09):
because we're the crawling up the stairs. So she

Sage (53:13):
looks down through the kind of the thing in the middle
where you can look down and seeall of the stairs because it's
kind of like spiraling around.
Yeah. And, and I think thelights are shutting off floor by
floor, I think from the bot fromthe top. And it's going down,
right? I think so. Yeah. Andthen she sees Kayako coming up
the stairs, a few floors down.

(53:37):
And when it's like, it's likethese two things are descending
and ascending. Like the lights.
The darkness is kind of comingdown closer to her from the top.
And then Kayako is coming up toher from the bottom. And it's I
just feel so like, like acompression. Yes. Oh, that's a
good description. Yep. Likeshe's getting sandwiched. And so

(53:57):
she just runs and it's reallyscary. Stairs are really scary
thing and horror movies for me.
Like imagine yourself at the topof stairs and there's
something's like slowlycreeping.

Unknown (54:10):
I think he talks about this in the behind the scenes in
the Japanese film. Do

Ethan (54:14):
you remember this where he talks about feeling scared
when he went to hisgrandmother's house? Oh, yeah.
Do you remember that?

Sage (54:20):
Yeah. He was talking about something about how like, yeah,
these Japanese houses are theway they're designed is kind of
unsettling and eerie.

Ethan (54:29):
Yeah. And there's like old dark wood and there's all
sorts of stuff that really kindof freaked him out. There was
like, you know, maybe a shrineor something. Yeah, but he, what
I love about that is he's likethis. He's to really scare me.
I'm going to tap into that.
Yeah. And it works. And I Yes,and I think that's actually all
the other beats in this filmthat are scary. Kind of tap into
those. Like it's like other kidfears. You know, something

(54:52):
coming up from underneath youthe in the stairway, the being
in Edie? Yeah, all of that.
Yeah, it's funny if you if, ifyou go back and you look at all
those that it's kind of like,Oh, something being up in the
attic. Yeah, these are all verymuch childhood fears.

Sage (55:11):
And they are scary and like the reason they work for
adults is because it thatchildhood fear never really goes
away. Yeah. Because it's morethan just childhood fear. It's
what we have evolved to know as,like just basic knowledge of how
to survive right now. Like kidstastebuds are more sensitive.

(55:35):
Yeah. Because you know, when all

Ethan (55:36):
these things go back to illegitimate Yeah, cuz self
preservation

Sage (55:39):
all the time was like, why are we afraid of the dark is
because there used to be realthings in the dark. That were
scary. And now it's just,

Ethan (55:47):
why do we find these like, weird cramped spaces and
haunted old house scary versuslike, you know, why are there no
modern houses that are haunted?
Right. And there's anotherpodcast, I listened to you kind
of Robin talk about stuff. Yeah.
And they they actually talkedabout this on one of their
episodes. They talked about sortof the architecture space and

(56:08):
why why we find being in theselike small, cramped rooms scary.
And he's like, one of the hostsof that podcast said, basically,
you know, that he was doing someresearch and came across some
theory around this, that wereally need to have something
called Vantage, right, which islike, you know, yeah, viewpoint,
right, being able to see if, youknow, around us, yeah, it's why

(56:28):
we built Hill forts. You know,there's the ability to like, see
what's coming. Yeah. And youcan't do that in a, in a house
with all these like littlehallways, and

Sage (56:37):
exactly, it's, that's why I like, I like that people feel
safe in a corner. Because that'stwo less places that something
can come at you. Right. Yeah.
You know, but then also, you'rebacked into a corner literally.
Yeah. So at least for me,that's, that's my dilemma.
Whenever I'm with the ghost,

Ethan (56:58):
go for the corner, run up the stairs. Just be I think you
have the right strategy, butbeing stubborn. Yeah. I think is
stubborn.

Sage (57:06):
So that's the lesson to anyone in any sort of moral
perils. Stay right where you

Ethan (57:12):
punch the ghost. Yeah, I'm probably I'm pro ghost
punching. Right. Yeah. But notexpecting it. Exactly. Different
powers that you run away. Allright, what let's see. Is it
turn lights on scary? I think wehave a solid consensus. Right?
It is. Okay. All members of thepodcast agree. And have voted.

(57:33):
Motion carried.
Next up would be favoritescenes. I guess we've sort of
talked about that. already. Whatwas your favorite scene? Again?
I forget in the stairwell?

Sage (57:49):
Yes. Well, and then bathroom. Okay.

Ethan (57:53):
For me?

Sage (57:56):
Yeah, what is your favorite scene?

Ethan (58:00):
For me, it's the scene in the Japanese film. You want to
take a guess?

Sage (58:06):
Which one? The one with the girls?

Ethan (58:09):
Yeah, girls, but why? Why what particular? That's the
storyline. It's when there'sactually four girls in the
beginning. Yeah, they're all inthere partying or something or
hanging out drinking. And inthis abandoned house at that
point, yeah.

Sage (58:28):
That is why I was confused about when in time this was very

Ethan (58:31):
confusing. Even if I had a plotted out now. Yeah. And
like make a flowchart.

Sage (58:35):
Yeah. But it's like the school girls. And

Ethan (58:38):
so she leaves though. And she sees something when she
leaves. Yeah. And it turns outshe's seeing and now I forget if
that storyline happens first ornot. But basically, there's a
whole nother storyline in themovie involving this cop that
was investigating the murders inthe house. And at one point,
he's in the house. And he walkshe like, looks down this

(59:01):
hallway. And he sees this girl.
Yeah. And then he realizes it'skind of a sixth sense moment.
It's like, I you know, let's,let's just forward here. I'm
gonna spoil the sixth sense alittle bit. Okay, so if you
haven't seen that movie, stoplistening right now. But he
basically realizes he's a ghost,I guess. Yeah, you know, and
he's seeing his daughter, like10 years in the future. Yeah. It

(59:24):
is a super, like deep, poignant,and like, kind of mind blowing
scene, and it's there and gonein an instant. I feel like you
could make a whole movie justaround that whole dynamic.

Sage (59:38):
Yeah, that isn't weird.
moment like that is kind of anoffshoot of what Kayako has
done. I guess. It's just alittle snippet example of how
she has affected these people'slives. Other than

Ethan (59:50):
that in the American film, I don't know the Bill
Pullman part of the beginning.
Yeah, great start to a movie.
Yeah, it's kind of surreal.
Yeah. You saw him actually inLast highway. Yeah, is that he
plays that kind of character oflike

Sage (01:00:03):
I, I was gonna say it is like the beginning scene it is
kind of quality. Yeah. Becauseit's kind of slow and dream like

Ethan (01:00:16):
something is just a little off and you're not sure
what, rightand on to our next, what's our
next section then? What wouldyou change?

Sage (01:00:33):
I think I would maybe order it a little more
chronologically. Yeah, becausethe ring does jump back in time,
but there's only two times it'sthe now. And then flashbacks of
kind of exposition of whathappened with Samira to get her
in. Yeah, well, I

Ethan (01:00:54):
think maybe limiting it limiting the jumping around a
little bit.

Sage (01:00:57):
Yeah. Or just making it more clear as to what like when
it is. Because that's somethingyou you kind of have to watch
the movie a couple times inorder to figure out when is what
is happening when? Right. So Ithink I think it would change
that. But other than that, Idon't think because like if they

(01:01:18):
had just switched up the order alittle bit. I think it would be
really good. You know? Yeah.

Ethan (01:01:24):
So So we I have we have notes here which is final girl.
Question mark. Oh, this is gonnabe does have a final girl.

Sage (01:01:33):
Is it chi go?

Ethan (01:01:35):
Oh, it's Karen. Karen.
Oh, yeah, she does. Although shedoesn't live. I mean, she's not
unscathed. Right? Yeah. So Soafter the

Sage (01:01:42):
very last scene in the American movie is her in I guess
this coroner's room. Yeah. Andher dead boyfriend is lying on
the steel table in front of hercovered by sheet.

Ethan (01:01:54):
nothing bad ever happens in a scene like this? Yeah, no.

Sage (01:01:57):
And she's looking at him like, oh my god, this all went
so wrong. Yeah. And then you seeKai go behind her going like
Yeah. And she her eyes widenCrash Zoom on Kayak as I Yeah,
your eyes widen. And she doesn'tturn around. But it's because
the movie ends before. She seemslike Mary Sonico

Ethan (01:02:21):
moment though with the hair. Yeah. All right. Well, I
think we have done this movieservice. And yeah, we've done a
good job on this movie.

Sage (01:02:35):
So if anyone still has not seen it, I think it would be
good to see because this one notit's not as important. I think
like there's no super major plottwist that, like you like you
could still gain the same thingfrom watching it now even after
you've watched after you'velistened to this,

Ethan (01:02:56):
ya know you we spoil it.
But you know, it's still fun towatch it. I feel like does
Hollywood

Sage (01:03:02):
do some good? No, that is jumping around at time because
if no one knows you will belooking for you. Thanks for
joining us on this episode ofthe teen horror cast. You can
follow us on Twitter andInstagram at teen horror cast
where we'd love to hear fromyou. Let us know what films
you'd like to hear us review.
See you next episode.

Ethan (01:03:23):
See you everybody. Bye.
Bye Yes, I do.

Sage (01:03:41):
That was our live audience. Okay, it

Ethan (01:03:43):
was like it happened just as I unplugged that thing. So
what did I do?

Sage (01:03:51):
That was our drummer. And

Ethan (01:03:54):
yeah, we have a full band. Oops. Yeah, they're good.
Thank you. Yeah, butunfortunately, our band only can
only play once. They only havetime to learn one song