E11: Scream (1996)

Finally we have enough of the classic films under our belt to turn in a solid review of SCREAM! How does a 2020s teen feel about the 1990s high schoolers from Woodsboro? Find out this and more including:

• Why we loved Matthew Lillard’s performance!
• Dewey Dewey Dewey!
• The secret origin of the Teen Horror Podcast!

We also get serious with a discussion of how we feel about horror movies after some real life horror experiences (a school shooting). We provide skip ahead time codes if you’d rather skip this section.

Episode Transcript

Ethan (00:00):
Alright, like this, and I'm gonna scream Okay, hold on

(00:05):
go ahead and go out and screamOkay, that was making you feel
better now. That was it. Thatwas that was a review of screen
give it us three stars thatscream

Sage (00:34):
Hello, and welcome to episode 11 of the teen horror
podcast where we watch anddiscuss horror movies from a
teens perspective. I'm your hostsage and I'm joined by my co
host and unpaid intern my Dad

Ethan (00:46):
Yeah, we need to talk about that unpaid business. We
need some revenue.

Sage (00:52):
This week we watched West Craven's 1996 meta-horror movie
"SCREAM."

Ethan (00:57):
As usual, we're covering horror films that involve death
and mayhem. So if you aren'tcomfortable with discussions of
fictional murder, best to duckout now.

Sage (01:06):
Additionally, this week, we're going to talk about a real
world event, which occurred aswe were preparing to record this
episode. Specifically, it was aschool shooting in my school.
And we wanted to talk about thefeelings we have about the
relationship between real worldhorror and fictional horror. If
that sounds too intense, myintern will pop in here to tell

(01:26):
you where to jump ahead to skipthat and just listen to the film

Ethan (01:29):
All right, let's go on to our section that we're calling
discussion.
backstory.

Sage (01:35):
Yeah, so I think we called it character development
previously. Yep. We switched itto backstory. Well, this is

because (01:41):
this is our podcast, and we can do what we want,

Ethan (01:43):
Right? We're the writers and we can rewrite it. Yeah,
this is this is the revision,we're gonna punch up the, as I
say, punch up the script. Yeah.
What is the backstory section bythe way, we should clarify that.

Sage (01:53):
So we're just kind of filling you guys in on what
we've been doing since the lastepisode like movies we've
watched and recommend or don'trecommend, you know, things
you've been doing.

Ethan (02:05):
So what kind of media have you been consuming?

Sage (02:07):
Yes. So since our last episode, I have watched
Guillermo del Toro's series, notthe whole thing, but five of
them. Five of the episodes.
Cabinet of curiosities is whatit's called. Yeah, I love
Guillermo del Toro. And myfavorite one that I've seen is
probably the very first one inthe series, which I think it's
my favorite because it wasdirected by him. It's really

(02:28):
good. Yeah, they're just kind oflike little bite size. horror
movies.

Ethan (02:32):
Yeah what a great director and yeah, like you did
Pan's Labyrinth... a report onthat for school. I did. years
ago, actually. Yeah, a whileago. And yeah, let's see what
else?

Sage (02:45):
Um, for all you Knives Out fans, I watched the sequel Glass
Linnaean, which is awesome. Ithink I love Ron Johnson. I
think the glass on Yun wasamazing. It was very riveting.
And the twists and turns wereperfect. And there were just so
fun. Yeah, it doesn't the filmthat makes you feel smart when
you figure something out. Butnot stupid when you don't.

Ethan (03:09):
Totally. I'm on board.
Yeah.

Sage (03:11):
Yeah. Characters are just so fun too.

Ethan (03:13):
So we saw that in theater. It was great. It was
only a theater for like a weekor something. It was such a
shame. But I'm really glad thatwe got to see it. You know, it
was such a great experience togo. We have not been to the
theater a ton. I mean, we werent a lot of videos from
scarecrow video, shout out toSeattle Scarecrow Video. Yeah,
we just haven't gotten to theactual physical theater as much

(03:34):
as I like. And it was really funto be there. We went to sort of
Seattle's quote unquote, premiershopping centers, which was kind
of like a ghost town inside onthe busy shopping day of the
year, the day afterThanksgiving. But the theater
was packed. Yeah, it was. Peoplewere like having a good time.
And they were like laughing andclapping. And it was just great.

(03:57):
Yeah, it was a perfect theaterexperience.

Sage (03:59):
And I noticed something in the credits

Ethan (04:03):
All right, yeah. What did you notice?
Oh yes, this is awesome.

Sage (04:08):
If you've seen Glass Onion or like if you haven't this is
not a spoiler. Yeah, no, it'snot. But there's this thing that
happens in the movie likethey're on this little island,
this fancy rich person Islandand there's this thing that
happens every hour. It's calledlike the "hourly bong" or
something where like, there'sthis bell at the top of the
island or something. It waseverywhere.

Ethan (04:27):
It's like it's piped into speakers or something. But and
he claims at one point he'slike, Oh, I had like Philip
Glass record that. Yes.

Sage (04:37):
That's so funny. Yeah, it's like it's just like a bell
but in the credits, it sayshourly. Bong is credited to
Joseph Gordon. Levitt. Yeah. Andso he must have like, he just
says "bong" and I kind offreaked out. I was in the
theater. We were leaving. And Ilike, I let it a little scream
because I was like, I loveJoseph Gordon Levitt, his

Ethan (04:59):
name. I think this scream was "JOSEPH GORDON LEVITT"...
just like that.

Sage (05:03):
So he's a very close, personal friend of mine.

Ethan (05:06):
In your head, that's true. You have a rich dialogue
with him on a regular basis.
Yeah.

Sage (05:11):
No, I love him. He's just a great funny guy. I love him. I
think like as a real person, hejust seems very genuine.

Ethan (05:17):
Yeah. You said like you have a good... You're a true
fan.

Sage (05:21):
Well, he's my friend. He's

Ethan (05:27):
this is not an unhealthy parasocial relationship at all.
It's good to know.

Sage (05:31):
We also watched Wednesday, the new Netflix series, which I
thought was really good. It waslike a fun little series. I love
the character Wednesday. Ireally like her outfits. I did a
little bit of research on heroutfits after watching it
because I just thought they werethe greatest. Apparently those

(05:51):
big chunky shoes she wears arePrada. And they're like $1,000
or something. So it'll be alittle bit out of my price
range.

Ethan (05:59):
Chunky black. Almost.

Sage (06:02):
Yeah, so I do I recommend that it's a very fun bingeable
series.

Ethan (06:08):
Yeah. What else we watched recently, actually, this
week, we watched your dark.
Yeah. And a 1987 vampire movie,which was your first vampire
movie, which I'm so happy about?
Because it's the best. Yeah.
vampire movie is directed byKathryn Bigelow. And then last
night, we watched another nifty87 vampire movie. Last boy. The
Lost Boys. Yeah. Just great. Ilove that pairing.

Sage (06:35):
They very much remind me of each other. Yeah. Which I
think is funny. Yeah,

Ethan (06:40):
there's a lot of common kind of different tone though.

Sage (06:43):
Yeah, Lost Boys kind of reminds me more of the Goonies
because

Ethan (06:47):
Oh 100% their kids, right? It's

Sage (06:49):
like these. It's the independent of their parents.
Yeah, so yeah,

Ethan (06:55):
it's the Goonies with vampires. And then like slightly
older, sexier kids that you kindof wanted to be when you're my
age are like, oh, yeah,

Sage (07:02):
you pointed something out.
That was like, little kids canwatch it and be like, oh, I want
to be like those. Like littlegays characters. They're nice
kids. And then older kids canwatch it and be like, oh, I want
to be like those vampires. Yeah.
Yeah. So yeah, yeah. And also,Halloween did occur. Correct.

(07:24):
Not the movie but not the dog. Iwent as Carrie
i i think it might have been mybest costume was course of my
amazing. I applied my the bloodto my face, like at school and

(07:51):
the school bathroom. Yeah, alittle bit of struggle, but it
was worth it. Because I gotta Igotta love staring looks. But
like a lot of adults recognizeme because I think that's kind
of the key is to dress up as anolder movie character because
adults will know you.

Ethan (08:08):
You will get more candy from the adults rolling out the
candy. So yep.

Sage (08:14):
Yeah, that was fun.

Ethan (08:15):
Yeah, that was that was a great outfit you were wearing
like it was like the prom. Okay,yeah, so tiara, actually,

Sage (08:20):
um, the dress I did deface a dress, with acrylic paint and
fake blood and like whateverelse. And that that was the same
dress that I wore to homecoming,the homecoming dance a week
earlier. So that was

Ethan (08:35):
the great thing about that outfit. That costume was
it's it was simple, but it'slike when you see a Picasso
painting of like a bowl, andyou're like, that's three lines,
but it's the best bull I've everseen. You know, it's like, there
was like three elements to yourcostume. It was like fake blood.
Cheap prom dress. And, and thatwas all you need. And it's 100

(08:55):
No question. When you see it.
You're like, Oh, that's great.
Yeah.

Sage (08:58):
Someone asked me like an adult. This old guy. He was
like, Have you been? Do you knowwho Kerry is? I was like, Yeah,
I've read the book. So you're aposer a fake man. I'm very lucky
me. Curious actually the firstStephen King book I've ever
read. So that's right.

Ethan (09:15):
Yeah. Yeah, cuz I actually wait. I think it was
right after I ordered you abunch of good cover. Stephen
King books.

Sage (09:25):
Yeah, good covers. Yeah.

Ethan (09:37):
The next few minutes are a discussion of our feelings on
what it means to talk abouthorror movies after experiencing
some real life horrific events.
If you'd rather skip this jumpahead to the movie summary
starting at the 21 minute mark.
So let's go on we're gonna talka little bit about a serious
topic. We pause the recording ofthis episode, actually, when we
were going to do it earlier inNovember, after some pretty

(09:59):
serious stuff happened. Andthere was, we just want to be
really frank about all this,there was a shooting at sages
High School, which is actuallythe same place that my wife
works. So it was close veryclose to our family. This
happened, you know, in themiddle of the school day, we
didn't feel like jumping backinto a review of a movie that
involved teens and death in highschool right away, for obvious
reasons. But we wanted to talkabout this because it was it had

(10:23):
a big impact on us. And wewanted to talk about our
relationship with horror. Andwhat happens, you know, when you
experience a real life horror,so, sage, let's talk a little
bit about that. We're going totry to keep this section
compartmentalized, so we're notgoing to talk about it in the
rest of the review anddiscussion of the movie. But

(10:45):
this is sort of our place tojust kind of air that.

Sage (10:47):
Yeah. So I don't, I'm not going to talk about the details
at all. I don't want that to bewhat this section is about. So
it just it happened in earlyNovember, as you said, middle,
the school day, there was alockdown. Everyone was in their
classrooms for a few hours. Andthat was truly terrifying. Yeah,

(11:09):
for me, and I'm sure you know,everyone else who is
experiencing it, the thoughtsthat were going through my head
was like, I guess I knew thatthis could have happened. But
until that moment, it kind ofseemed

Ethan (11:23):
removed. Sure. It always feels like it happened somewhere
else, because it was

Sage (11:27):
and, you know, no one should have to go into school
and worry that someone has agun. Yeah. That's like, there
has been so many failings, onlike, a governmental level all
the way down to like this level.
Yeah. To lead to this point.
Where, like, children are payingfor the reluctance to put

(11:54):
restrictions on like gun safety,like, children are paying with
their lives. Yep.

Ethan (12:00):
Yeah, it is terrible.
And, you know, you texted me,the moment I think that you guys
were just going into lockdown,and there was even some
uncertainty, like as it waschaos, obviously, a little bit
and what was going on. And, Imean, I don't remember anything
until the, you know, a fewminutes later, I like tore into
the school. Like the area aroundthe school, I just drove my

(12:25):
truck right over there and waslike, you know, waiting. And I
was easily one of the firstcouple dozen parents on the
scene. And, you know, by the endof the school day, by the time
that they we got everybody outof the building, it was hundreds
of people just you know, aroundthe building. Yeah. All worried
for you guys not getting anyinformation. So it was it was

(12:45):
horrible. We didn't. I mean, itobviously, you know, school was,
was canceled for days. And wehad to kind of come back
together and figure out, youknow what to do and start to
process what it just happened. Ishould say, you know, it was not

(13:05):
a mass shooting, it was atargeted shooting, which hardly
seems a point worth making. Andyet it does seem like a point
worth talking about. Like, youknow, it was the impact on the
school, though, was huge,regardless, right. I mean,
somebody was murdered at thebuilding.

Sage (13:24):
Yeah. Yeah. It feels horrible that it's, like, a good
thing to say that it was just atargeted just, yeah. Like,
there's

Ethan (13:36):
all the issues of like somebody bringing a gun to
school, and Oh, yeah.

Sage (13:40):
And, you know, since then, I think that like, there's, I
think heightened security oncampus, like maybe one or two
security guards. But that's allI've seen no, like clear bags or
bag checks or anything likethat. It is really terrifying to
come to school and know thatthat's a possibility every

(14:03):
single day. And I guess we alsowanted to talk about how
fictional horror kind of relatesto real life horrors and the
relationship between them

Ethan (14:16):
right so like, well, let me ask you this. So first of
all, why is it we feltuncomfortable at all? Not doing
the podcast right away. Likewhat? What is it that made you
feel uncomfortable?

Sage (14:26):
Um, it seems insensitive.
Yeah. If I'm being honest totalk about this piece of fiction
involving kids and death, whensomething like that has just
happened in the real world.
Because I think as much asfiction, like fictional movies

(14:49):
and books and things that can bereally fun, it is so important
to know that those are separatefrom the real world. Right. And
that you Not everything, likethings that happen in fiction.
Those things can be fun. Butthen when brought into real
life, they're not the same.
Right? Yeah. And it's, it wasreally important to just kind of

(15:12):
Yeah, at that, you know? Yeah,no,

Ethan (15:16):
that's a great point, sage. I mean, we watch, like, we
watch these horror movies, andthey're horrible things that
happen in these horror movies.
But they can be like, in a crazyway. And like in this movie that
we'll talk about today. They canbe fun and funny. And you know,
shivery? Yeah. But it's becausewe know that it's fiction. And

(15:36):
it's a safe way to experiencethose feelings. And I feel like
what happened is that the safetyof experiencing those feelings
in a fictional setting was takenaway for a couple of weeks
there.

Sage (15:49):
Exactly. Yeah. Another thing I wanted to talk about is
kind of the point that somepeople bring up sometimes that,
you know, horror movies areinsensitive, or something like
that. And I'm personally, myview on that is that horror

(16:09):
movies themselves aren'tinsensitive, but the way some
people can interpret and processthose can be insensitive.
There's another thing that thisis this kind of relates to like
fictional horror, but truecrime, it kind of branches off
from that. And I think that likethe true crime bubble, is a

(16:31):
place where a lot of like,insensitivity happens, sure.
Because it's true crime, like,and a lot of people watch these
videos, or listen to thesepodcasts about real things that
have happened as a form ofentertainment for themselves,

(16:52):
whilst forgetting that theevents of the quote unquote,
story have affected so manypeople's lives, in the worst
ways. Yeah. And that's kind ofwhat I was talking about, about
being able to separate fictionfrom reality. True Crime kind of
blends those together. And Ithink that's a really dangerous

(17:12):
thing that can be so harmful ifyou're not, like hyper aware of
how you're listening to truecrime. And like being mindful of
how it's affected people in reallife. If you lose that, at any
point, while you're listening totrue crime, it can be really
harmful. Because, you know, alot of people might like, make

(17:37):
jokes about things that havehappened to true crime, or that
this thing that I think has beena phenomenon for a while, but
kind of romanticizing serialkillers Is so insensitive, and
is not something that anybodyshould be doing like, this
Halloween, this past Halloween.
A lot of people even on myschool, were dressing up as

(17:58):
Jeffrey Dahmer. Like, I don'teven know how that could how
someone could think that's okay.
To dress up as someone who haskilled people, like in their
families, like emotionally like,Yeah, you. That's just not okay.

Ethan (18:19):
Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. Such. I really appreciate
your insight there. I haven'theard you say that out loud,
like that before. And it really,I think you nailed it. I think
that, you know, I've heard thatI've seen true crime,
documentaries and podcasts thatI thought were mostly trying to

(18:40):
deal with things in a sensitiveway. But it's such a, it's such
an industry now. You know, and Ijust feel like people are
creating this churning out this.
It's like the reality TV, right?
It's like this stuff is, it'spre written in a way

Sage (18:57):
it's kind of catered to an audience that wants to be kind
of, like, thrilled orentertained, or, you know, like,
it's not true crime, I thinkbecomes dangerous when it's with
the intent of entertainmentrather than information. Because
that's when it starts to feellike fiction. When it's not at

(19:20):
all.

Ethan (19:22):
Yeah, I think that you can see how it can when it's
just titillating what is justsort of, like, you know,
creating this experience, whichis designed to be primarily
entertainment. I mean, I supposeall content in a way is quote
unquote, entertainment. But whenit's done just to entice and

(19:43):
entertain and there's noreflection, there's no it's not
treated with any sort of gravityor, or respect, I guess, but
when you start to lose that it'sthat's not good. That's
unhealthy. So So that yeah,that's the big difference, I
think, between us consuminghorror content, just as people

(20:07):
just as people who like horrorfilms, you know, and versus
consuming something like, truecrime, you know, and just doing
it gleefully, just consuminggleefully. You know, I feel like
when we're watching horror filmshas always been, again, like a
safe way to experience thosescary feelings. I think we can
still keep doing that. Having anexperience something kind of

(20:27):
scary. I don't know. How do youfeel about that?

Sage (20:30):
Yeah, I think that it can be a way to experience it
safely. But they're like, thereason that we backed off from
recording this for a while isbecause, you know, after that
happened in real life, that kindof safety was kind of pulled out
from under us. And it doesn'tfeel so much like fiction
anymore.

Ethan (20:52):
All right. Anything else you want to talk about there?
Should we? I think that's allright. Then we're going to jump
in to the actual scary moviethat we're going to talk about
today. Do you?
And before we jump into the restof the podcast, I just want to

(21:15):
mention that we will bespoiling, spoiling, spoiling
everything in this movie,starting with the movie summary
that we do every episode. So ifyou've already seen scrim and
you kind of just want arefresher, you're gonna get that
in a moment. If you have notseen scrim and you'd like to see
it. We recommend just, you know,come back to the podcast after
you've watched it. What a greatfilm. Super fun, you'll love it.

(21:38):
With that on to the summary.

Sage (21:43):
screen plays with the classic tropes of the horror
genre, repurposing them asmisdirection, red herrings, and
meta commentary on the genre andthe movie itself.

Ethan (21:52):
The film begins with Casey Becker played by Drew
Barrymore in a classic horrormovie setup home alone at night
when the phone rings.

(22:25):
Chatting with the apparent WrongNumber caller, she is drawn into
a conversation that quicklyturns menacing. Realizing that
the caller is outside herisolated countryside house, she
is taunted into playing horrormovie trivia to save the life of
her boyfriend and herself.

(22:51):
Trivia challenges she fails tomeet, resulting in their deaths
at the hand of a robed ghostmasked knife wielding killer.

Sage (22:58):
Having already confounded our expectations that this
extended first scene waspresenting us with who we had
first believed to be the starand main character. We move on
to the actual protagonist SidneyPrescott, played by Neff
Campbell. She seems to be aclassic horror genre ingenue
sitting alone in her bedroomdoing her schoolwork.

(23:31):
Classic jumpscare later and herboyfriend Billy played by skeet
Ulrich sneaks into her bedroomfor a makeout session during
which we realize that Sydney isthat most classic of horror film
trips, the virgin who turns downher boyfriend's advances. In
this case, part of herreluctance stems from her
mother's murder a year before. Atrauma is still fresh for Sydney

(23:52):
and her father played byLawrence Hecht.

Ethan (23:54):
After Billy leaves her father comes in to tell her that
he's leaving on a trip. We won'tsee much of him for the rest of
the film other than as animplied suspect in the killings
to come.

Sage (24:04):
Cut to the Woodsboro Town High School, Sidney and her gang
of friends arrived to newsreporters swarming the front
lawn to cover the death of KcBecker and her boyfriend and I
before.

(24:24):
Besides Sydney and Billy thecrew of kids that formed the
main High School characters forthe remainder of the film
include Sydney's BFF Tatum,played by Rose McGowan. Randy a
horror film obsessive played byJamie Kennedy and Matthew
Lillard playing the selfcentered class clowns do.

Ethan (24:55):
The next scene echoes the opening. Sydney is alone at home
and the phone rings we know thevoice Have the killer and the
call takes a dark turn quicklyas the killer tonsor about her
mother's death.

(25:29):
Moments later she's being chasedthrough her house by the dark
robed masked murderer till shebarricades herself in her room
and calls for help. Billy crawlsin through the window before the
police arrive and a cell phonedrops from his pocket. An
unusual item for a teenager in1996. She looks at him with
growing suspicion and Billy issoon under arrest at the police
station under suspicion ofmurder.

Sage (26:09):
Leaving the police station after giving a statement Sydney
and her friend Tatum areconfronted by the reporter Gale
weathers played by Courtney Cox.
Sydney punches her after Gailbrings up her mother's murder
and leaves to spend the night atTatum's house

Ethan (26:29):
while they're Sydney receives a call from the killer.
After this call and Billy's callhistory is checked and found to
be clean. Billy himself isreleased. Obviously innocent.

Sage (26:38):
With all the chaos in the town. The kids decide that now
is the perfect time for a houseparty.
Gail weathers and a cameramanstay got the place while the
kids watch Halloween onvideotape inside.

(27:42):
Randy recounts the rules ofhorror films while Sidney
prepares to break the biggesthorror movie rule of all, losing
her virginity to Billy upstairs.

Ethan (27:59):
After a series of killings occurred during the
party from Sydney's best friendTatum to Gale weathers
cameraman, we finally begin tosuspect Billy but he himself
falls at the hands of the maskedkiller. As Sidney watches in
terror. She flees the killer andis chased through the house
until she winds up face to facewith a very much alive Billy
covered in what turns out to befake blood.

Sage (28:40):
We realized that it was Billy working together with Stu
all along. Their maniacalfriendship hinges on murder the
game they took turns playing asthe masked killer with a voice
disguiser as they taught and nowcaptive Sidney they revealed
that her father is also tied upand about to be killed along
with her.

Ethan (28:57):
Gale weathers intervenes long enough to let Sydney get
away. Sydney herself dons thekiller's robes and turns the
table and billions to she Randyand Gail face off against the
two psychopaths and after onefinal jumpscare Bailey is
finally killed. And Sydneyhaving defied the horror film
rules stands victorious. Yay,yay, certainly. Right. On to our

(29:20):
discussions

Sage (29:33):
what an iconic movie.

Ethan (29:35):
Yeah, absolutely. 100% It definitely changed. I mean, it
changed the aura industry forsure. Yeah. So let's talk about
overall impressions. Yeah,

Sage (29:43):
so this movie, really the only thing I knew about it was
ghost face. Because so manypeople talk like he's just an
iconic character like FreddyKrueger, Michael Myles Meyers,
whatever. Yeah, but yeah, sothat was kind of the only thing
I knew about scream and alsothat there were a bunch of like
sequels after it, which WesCraven directed four out of five

(30:04):
of I really liked it. Itreminded me of cabin in the
woods. Because I seen cabin inthe woods before this. I feel
like if I saw a cabin in thewoods now afterwards, it will
remind me of scream and so theother way around, you know,
yeah, because, like ultimatelyCabin in the Woods is the kind
of satirical parody of all theseother movies screen being one of

(30:26):
them. Sure. But yeah, I reallylike that it does a little bit
of kind of fourth wall breakingwhen they talk about the like
rules of horror movies. WhenRandy's talking about that and
explaining it while they'rewatching Halloween. That's
something that everyone is kindof like aware of like
subconsciously like yeah,viewers of the movie, and then
he says it out loud and you'relike, Oh, yeah.

Ethan (30:46):
Does he go over the rules? So okay, so let's Yeah,
let's let's touch on that for asecond. So this movie definitely
plays with First of all, uses alot of the horror film tropes
that we've we've kind ofcodified over decades. You know,
if you're a virgin, you live ifyou have sex in a horror film,
you die, etc, etc. It takes allthose expectations, all those

(31:07):
tropes, and it uses them to kindof manipulate our expectations a
little bit and to mislead us andas red herrings.

Sage (31:14):
Another thing I really like about the movies, the
characters, they all seem reallysolid, specifically, Dewey's
character. I love him. He's

Ethan (31:23):
so funny cast in this movie is amazing. Yeah, I

Sage (31:25):
know. The cast is really good. I was watching this kind
of behind the scenes of thecast. And it might have been
West Craven, the directortalking about how it was like he
got all these young actors whoit would get the screenplay for
it and they'd be like, what, whowas in it? I got to be in this
too. You know, like as a kind oflike, just trickled down to
Matthew

Ethan (31:46):
Lillard was cast though, how he was he went to the
wherever they were holding theauditions. He was there with his
then girlfriend for some otherfilm. And he was like, literally
in the hallway. And the castingdirector was like, Hey, you
should read for this. And he gotthe part.

Sage (32:00):
Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah.
No, I think Matthew Lillard isgreat at stew. Oh, totally. So
you brought up that Oh, somebodywill think that his performance
is done. Yeah, I don't think so.
I think it's perfect. I thinkteens are just crazy. Sometimes.
Like they just read just, likedo weird stuff. Like, like, it's

(32:20):
not like have you been? Oh,yeah. Like that. People are just
weird. Like, that's just how itis. And also, he's like, a
little bit of an obsessivepsychopath. Yeah. I don't see
the arguments. And it'soverdone.

Ethan (32:32):
I love him in this film.
I love that performance. He is.
I mean, it's an unforgettableperformance. I don't I'm not
annoyed by it at all. I don'tknow if people are annoyed by
it, or they just feel like it'slike not nuanced or whatever.
But like, seriously, you'reright. Like, have you seen it
realized? Like, they're notnuanced? No, half the time.
They're modular, like,

Sage (32:50):
what are you? Like? I think a lot of people are used
to seeing really complex,nuanced performances. From like,
adults as teenagers, becausewhatever. But yeah, like
whatever. Yeah. But I think Ithink he's really great. And I
also think that his relationshipand that like dynamic with Billy

(33:13):
is so good. Yeah, the way I kindof said it is like, Stu is
obsessed with Billy and Billy isobsessed with killing people.
Yeah. So kind of by proxiesthrough is yeah,

Ethan (33:24):
that definitely feels like the right vibe. I still
definitely seems totally Billyobsessed. He's just

Sage (33:29):
he does whatever Billy wants him to. Yeah. And at the
end of the movie, the I guessthey're trying to make it seem
like they're victims as well. Sothey take turns stabbing each
other Stu and Billy. Alright,and when Billy stopped Yeah,
yeah. When Billy steps do Suewas like, Man, that really hurt
like that actually hurt. You cansee that. He looks afraid.

Ethan (33:47):
Yeah. You know, and hurt.
That's the moment where he'slike this got to read. Yeah,

Sage (33:51):
like he's this whole time.
He's kind of been living in thislittle fantasy because it hasn't
been affecting him.

Ethan (33:56):
Right. It definitely feels like they're playing a
game. Yeah, yeah. No, they

Sage (33:59):
literally said like, let's play a game or whatever. Like,
what's your you know? And littlelike the trivia. It's all fun to
them

Ethan (34:16):
okay, I remember where I was going with that meandering
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, let'sjust jump into that for a second
to set this up. So who wrotethis

Sage (34:23):
Williamson, specifically, Kevin Williams, originally
titled scary movie,

Ethan (34:28):
which is interesting because great later on a parody.
Yeah, so he writes, he writesscream and the whole screenplay
deals with these horror movietropes and it kind of turns them
on their head and uses them tomanipulate the audience like a
you expect the version the kidyou know if you're a virgin you
survive if you have sexy die andwe see this girl have sex during

(34:49):
the movie where like that's itfor her it's curtains for which
she survived. So you know, allthe all this misdirection,
turning these tropes around.
What's interesting about that,of course, is the they actually
list out the rules for films andhow to survive them. And I
remember so yes, there's a sceneduring the house party where
they're watching Halloween andRandy the character Randy is
giving the the list of rules.

(35:12):
You know, like, you can't havesex. You can't drink the course
they're all drinking beers. Andyou can't say I'll be right
back. Yeah, you know, like Stevesays, I'll be right back. And
does but there's a scene earlierthan that. That's what I wanted
to ask about, which was Randyworks in a video store. Yeah, I
feel like at that point, he waslike, you can't do these. He
also kind of touches on movietropes. And I can't remember if

(35:33):
they he goes into the rules thator not,

Sage (35:35):
I feel like he does or something like that. Because I
think Steve was there also likebeing weird, you know, as usual
right. Yeah, so I think it'sreally fitting that he works at

(36:12):
a video store. That's a nicelittle love it. Also, the whole
movie is kind of riddled withreferences to other movies. At
one point, Tatum says this funnything to say she goes, You're
starting to sound like a Westcarpenter.

Ethan (36:28):
Yes. And she she you haven't seen spit in my grave.
But she's like, What is this

Sage (36:35):
spit on my garage?
It's so funny. But yeah, I thinkI think I like how much it
relies on other movies.

Ethan (36:49):
This is a horror movie written by a guy who loves
horror. Yeah.

Sage (36:52):
That's what it feels like.
And it feels real becausethey're referencing horror
movies that we've seen also, youknow, and they keep being like,
this feels just like a movie. Orlike, you can't do these things
in a horror movie. And you'relike, Well, this is you know,
like, these are real kids, youknow? So

Ethan (37:09):
very nice. I'd love that tone. So yeah, good cast. Who
else would we like particularlyin the cast? I thought skied
Alright, she was great.

Sage (37:16):
He was really good. And I think you guys pretty boy, he
and Matthew, I think go reallywell together because they're
kind of they're almost two sidesof the same coin. Like Matthew
was like crazy outgoing all overthe place. One and then Billy is
kind of the cold calculating onethat comes up with the ideas and
executes them. Yeah. And Stewartsays little like puppet

Ethan (37:38):
David Arquette. Oh, you already mentioned this dude.
He's so he's Tatum. The BFFTatum. Yeah, he's her brother.

Sage (37:47):
Yeah, older brother. So originally, apparently, like in
the screenplay. He was supposedto be just this goofy guy like
comic relief. But he turns out,I think this was just because
David Arquette was playing him.
He turns out to be a really likegenuine and nice guy. Very
sweet. Yeah, I love him so much.
He's just this little ray ofsunshine in the movie. And

(38:08):
there's this funny scene wherehe's talking to the police chief
because he's a police officerand the police chief is smoking
a cigarette and do we is eatingan ice cream cone. And every
time that police chief takes adrag Do we like takes little
bite of ice cream? It's funny,because they don't like they
don't address that. It's justlike a little contrast between
the

Ethan (38:27):
beat for beat every time the guy takes a drag live.

Sage (38:31):
I love it. It just that's really much his character.

Ethan (38:33):
Also, I feel like the great chemistry between David
Arquette and Courtney Cox who Ithink yeah, on this film,

Sage (38:39):
really? Yeah, they're both so human, you know? Yeah, it's
not some like crazy.

Ethan (38:45):
Gordon Cox is great in this room.

Sage (38:46):
Yes, she is. I was watching this behind the scenes.
And Courtney Cox said that shehad to kind of fight to get the
role as Gale weathers in thehorror movie because everyone
saw her as who she wasn'tfriends, which I have not seen.
But she was she was great.

Ethan (39:01):
And it is amazing to me.
You haven't seen it was likesuch a cult. I know. I know.
Yeah. One of the three shows. Hewas watching.

Sage (39:09):
But yeah, so she kind of nobody saw her in that role as
someone in a horror movie but Ithink she did a really good job
at it. I've also kind of youknow at times you hate her at
times you love her. She's kindof a complex here, you know,
because she does keep pushingsaid about her mother's murder.
Right and about No, she's great.
Yeah, she's a guy who supposedlymurdered her mother. What's

Ethan (39:31):
his name? Colin.

Sage (39:33):
They just call them cotton. Really? Yeah,

Ethan (39:34):
gosh it's such a funny name too because it just sounds
like the name of a drifter.
Right

Sage (39:42):
yeah. And when when Sid punches so that that part is
great. Yeah. I was like yeah.
You're getting kind of like youfeel what Stan is feeling as
you're getting kind of tickedoff with gale weather that she
keeps pushing about? Yeah, hermother's death. What do you know
it is kind of insensitive No.
100 Sounds like Gail just wantsto get the real story.

Ethan (40:03):
She was. Yeah, she's she's angling for her. So yeah,
for sure.
I want to talk about anotherquick fake out. That is just one
of my favorites. And that's theDrew Barrymore fake out. Yes.

(40:23):
Yeah. And the great thing aboutthis is that the I'm pretty sure
that the posters at the time hadDrew Barrymore's face Ron and
center. Yeah, she's like, thebiggest face. Yeah. So you think
like, the moment you see theposters on the wall of a
theater, you're like, oh, thismovie is going to the stars.
Drew Barrymore.

Sage (40:42):
Yeah. You know, with like, she's screaming on the cover
with like, her hand over hermouth. I mean, porn F Campbell,
who, you know, is not on theposter. But yeah, like she's

Ethan (40:52):
on the poster. I think it is. What is a great pickup.

Sage (40:57):
I know, I really like it.
Because immediately it's thissense of untrustworthiness like
that scene communicates to theviewer that anything could
happen. Like they're not afraidto kill anyone off. Just because
someone is in the movie for along time. Doesn't mean that
they're

Ethan (41:12):
being star and it Yeah, I mean, the moment that you
realize she like the moment thathe stabs her, basically, up
until that moment, you're justlike, how is she gonna get out
of this? Because obviously,she's getting out of it. How is
she getting? How she was?

Sage (41:26):
She's not Yeah, no, it's good. And the fact that her
boyfriend is killed to like,it's just, it's crazy. And I
think you read this in theWikipedia, but they had to cut
out so the

Ethan (41:37):
way video that's what?
YouTube?

Sage (41:45):
No, yeah. So they had to cut out some of the gory or
scenes of like, guts, likerolling down their legs. Yeah.

Ethan (41:53):
He was like, very specific when he was laying
down. Specifically the smallintestine. Yeah, yeah. And I
think they actually filmed it.
They cut it. Yeah. Which is toobad.

Sage (42:02):
I wouldn't complain if it wasn't. We'd like to see a
Director's Cut. Just that. Yeah.

Ethan (42:09):
We didn't look for any deleted scenes. I guess on this
one. There weren't any on theblu ray. We

Sage (42:13):
read. I don't know. I mean, maybe they were just so
like, they just couldn't includethem. Also, there was a scene
that Kevin Williamson, thescreen writer wanted to take
out, but Wes Craven kept it in.
And I think it's a pretty goodscene. I think that it you know,
add something to the movie. It'swhere Sydney's in the bathroom
in one of the stalls and sheoverhears these two girls
talking about her about hermother, which that always seems

(42:35):
to happen in moviesI'm never really have some real

(42:56):
life, but like that, likethey're talking about her and
she's

Ethan (43:01):
in a school of like, several 100 standards. You just
happen to be the bathroom forthe two Exactly. Girls are in
there talking about you. Yeah,but

Sage (43:07):
yeah, so they talking about her mom about like, I
guess her mom had like areputation as like, a sloth or
something.

Ethan (43:17):
Yeah, well, I mean, that would be a harsh way of putting
it. Oh, yes. The moms lookedaround. Right. That's I think
that's the phrase that you Yeah,it's one of those things where,
at first for sure. Neff doesn'tbelieve it? And sorry, enough
Campbell. Actually doesn't leaveit. method actor. Yeah. Yeah. So

(43:40):
So Sydney doesn't believe it.
And then she slowly realizeslike, actually, maybe my mom
wasn't a great person or wascheating on my dad. Or whatever.
Yeah,

Sage (43:50):
that's another thing about the adult situation. Yeah,
that's not addressed that much.
No, but there is kind of a beplot or move and see plot, like
a really underground plot. Hermom's like, post humorous
character arc, I guess. Likethrough the the eyes of Sid
Yeah. Who's realizing that?

(44:11):
Yeah. Oh, my God, maybe cottonis innocent. Like yo weathers
the news reporter keeps sayingunworthy. I don't know where
they come. I don't know. Butyeah, I think that's really
interesting, because it's hard.
I mean, it must have been hardfor her to come to terms with
the fact that Marie Kondo is Ohmy god. So his first name is

(44:33):
cotton.

Ethan (44:35):
His first name was God, who is such a drifter, and I'm
telling you Yeah, Ma'am, can wecome in and sit down for a
spill? And then that's it thenthey have an affair and

Sage (44:48):
yeah, so yeah, that's really interesting to to see her
at first be in really likecomplete denial about it and
then come to accept that

Ethan (44:56):
Yeah. And I think at one point in Tatum or BFF, actually,
as well. Like actually your mom,like, right away?

Sage (45:03):
Yeah. But also I really liked Neff Campbell. In the, in
the movie acid I think, justlike her look, I think it was
Wes Craven who said thisactually. But in the behind the
scenes video that I waswatching. He said like, when he
first saw Neff Campbell, he waslike, Oh, she's gonna have to

(45:25):
toughen up like, she's a little.
She's kind of delicate. Likeyeah, but he said he was
surprised by her that she couldhandle everything that was
happening in the movie becauseyou know, there's a lot of stuff
happens in the movies, a lot ofYeah, like death, a lot of gory
stuff. And he was like, what hesaid was like, I was just gonna
be like boot camp for her. Youknow, she handled and she she
was really good. She can bepretty fierce and tough. Yeah,
for sure. I think she does areally good job of coming off as

(45:47):
a believable high school girl,but then also dealing with what
happens to her and a good kindof,

Ethan (45:54):
yeah, she has a little bit of a Laurie strode, you
know, come to although even shetoughens up way more than Laurie
strode. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Butshe has to really confront her
boyfriend who she just sleptwith and then kill him. Not only
that, she like puts on thecostume and the character. Yeah,
sounds good.

Sage (46:15):
That's kind of a thing that it's great throughout the
whole movie is it's kind of aguessing game like a whodunit.
Yeah. Wes Craven was talkingabout how he was always thinking
about and trying to make itplausible that any any one of
the characters could have beenthe killer. Like he was making
sure that they were all like ata place they needed to be at the
specific time they needed to befor it to be plausible for them

(46:36):
to be the killer. Right? Andyou're kind of like Billy is so
like, kind of suspicious. Yeah.
That you think there's no way itcould be him? Because he's so
obvious, right? But then you'rekind of taught like, it's kind
of like going back and forth.
It's like, he's so suspicious.
There's no way but then it'slike, oh, maybe they really did.
Maybe he does. He doesn't verywell. What he's like, right, he

Ethan (46:55):
presents this whole like sometimes he seems caring not
caring sometimes he seems alittle psycho. Sometimes not.
Yeah, like we're a little likesomehow weirdly disconnected.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Emotionally.
Um, we haven't talked about theprinciple at all. But I just
want to shout out to HenryWinkler who's an amazing actor.
Yeah, I grew up with him onhappy days playing the Fonz. And
he was, you don't know this, butat one point when I was I must

(47:18):
have been five and a half or sixyears old. I dressed up as the
Fonz and put on a littleperformance, like a Fonz seating
from Happy Days for my family.
Worship fun. So Henry Winklerplays the principal, you know
him from having watched the restof the development of course, he

(47:40):
plays a lawyer. And he'd, youknow, he he's great in that
role. And he also like, is alittle sometimes he's
threatening and at one point,you think it could be him
because he's kind of like, youknow, threatening these students
with this knife? Yeah. And butthen soon after that he dies
Yeah,

Sage (47:57):
so the reason they killed off the principal was because
they were like, oh, there's thiswhole like 30 minute chunk of
the movie where no one dies?
That's unacceptable. Yeah, theykilled the principal and then
then also, I don't know if theywere planning this from when
they decided to kill theprincipal, but that serves a
purpose later on in the movie,like at the very end, when you
know, everyone's at the party,and then they get some call

(48:18):
that's like, hey, the principalis dead. He's like on the field,
right, like on the five horse Imean, I don't know. Let's go
Let's go see the body before thetotal grant I know. So that's
when they like leave Randy aloneto be killed

Ethan (48:35):
right? Yeah, it's funny.
So some Yeah, some of thecharacters you definitely they
turn they do like a 180 that'swould be Billy for sure. stew
for sure. We're like actuallyno, Stu is nuts the whole time?
Yeah, no. Yeah, he he slotsright into psycho roll.

Sage (48:52):
Yeah, he's like he's it's kind of like hidden in plain
sight. Like he's just crazy.

Ethan (48:57):
Yeah, he's hidden in plain sight. You're right 100%
Billy is very good. He's achameleon. And Sammy

Sage (49:03):
both work. Yeah. Because you like Sue is so crazy. You're
like, that's just how he is.

Ethan (49:09):
Gail I like she's just tough as nails the whole time
but she does go there's a littlebit of a transformation cuz she
like or maybe not atransformation maybe it's just
more Gale weathers. But shecomes back into the house with a
gun right? So she doesn't reallyneed to do that right. She
doesn't need to come in andconfront the killer.

Sage (49:25):
But she kind of saved them. Yeah,

Ethan (49:28):
of course. Then you see she's going on air like moments
later

Sage (49:31):
with like your hair is

Ethan (49:34):
tougher. Gale weathers Yeah, nobody walks out of that.
Yeah, so that's why I'm likewe're the true there's two hero

Sage (49:40):
Gale weathers. That's what I like about her character arc
is she goes from this kind ofantagonist like just this
annoying lady who's followingsuit to the person who saves
them all.

Ethan (49:50):
Yep. Great scene though is when her cameraman gets
killed. And wait, who is drivingthe van? Is it Gail whether it's
driving the van or is VoIP? Yes.
No yeah so Geller This goes outto the van. Her camera has been
killed. She does not know thisand she starts the van up and
she's like I cannot see out ofthe front windows and she turns
the windshield wiper on and it'scovered in blood you didn't

(50:11):
realize it's a beautifully, it'sperfectly because

Sage (50:15):
it just looks dark. It just looks dark first and then
the windshield wipers Come on,like oh my god.

Ethan (50:22):
It's the glorious, nastiest noise. Like it was
squeaky noise and like the bloodbeing flicked all over. The body
of the cameraman slides off. Andhe's hanging over the front.
Like to me that was like almostthe perfect. Yeah, yeah. It's

(50:43):
funny. Crazy. Crazy. It's scary.
Everything's happening all atonce.

Sage (50:48):
Yeah. Oh, no. The thing is Gil, whether it's like goes into
the party, and sets up arecording device to record the
kids. Yeah, no creepy, but um,then she sets up a monitor in
her like news van. And she andthe cameraman are watching them.
But there's a 32nd delay betweenwhat it records and what it
displays on their monitor.

Ethan (51:09):
This is 1986 technology.
So the hidden cameratransmitter, some 630 seconds
for those little radio waves tocrawl their way over to the
truck. And

Sage (51:17):
so what's going on is like Gale weathers his left. Yeah, I
think with Dewey. Yeah, likethey're going on some sort of
like romantic walk or something.
And so the cameraman is alone inthe van and he watches Randy get
murdered on the couch cuz he'salone because all the other kids
went to see the principal'sright. Nobody

Ethan (51:37):
thinks Randy's murdered.
All right. Yeah, he's he's good.

Sage (51:40):
Yeah. And so Randy is actually this is so funny. Randy
is yelling at the movieHalloween. He's having Turn
around, turn around, you know,

Ethan (51:50):
wow. Killer is coming up behind him. And yeah,

Sage (51:52):
so then the cameraman is talking to his mic as I turn
around. Yeah. And then he seesthe killer leave the room and
like go out of the house. Andhe's like, Oh, my God, he's
gonna come for me. But then he'slike, 32nd delay.

Ethan (52:05):
He says that like, just as he leaves the van, or just as
he's opening or something likethat, right? Like, it's like the
realization dawns on him. Andthen he gets

Sage (52:14):
Yeah. Which is so funny.
It is. It's

Ethan (52:16):
great. It's such a beautiful, like, multi layer.
No, yeah. Randy watching thevideo and yelling at the screen
and the cameraman watching thevideo screen and also watching
the movie. Great. Beautifullydone. Great. Congratulations.
Yeah.
Okay, anything you change in thefilm?

Sage (52:38):
Huh? Ah, I feel like the thing about her mom, I would
have liked to see that maybedeveloped a little bit more

Ethan (52:47):
tough to do in a Yeah, yeah,

Sage (52:50):
I hear you're like, sure.
But I feel like what they put inwas enough to have me wanting to
know more about it. So you know,maybe something about like at
the end like she's talking abouther mommy or something like
that. I think that would havebeen good to kind of wrap up
that little,

Ethan (53:04):
especially when it makes me think about the quarry.
Another David. Yeah, property,the video game that we played
recently where he had some, youknow, basically, summer camp
horror films. Yeah. And you havesuch a great opportunity to
really dig into a lot ofbackstory. Yeah, through that
game.

Sage (53:20):
Yeah, like Scream almost feels like this thing. It when
it feels like what I like aboutit is that it feels like a real
rich world. You know, like,there are things happening in
the movie like that would happenin real life. And they give just
enough kind of glimpse intothese other thing about
something in particular, notreally just like, you know, the
fight that Randy works at avideo store. You know, that her

(53:42):
mom, this reporter has beenhounding her. Yeah, it's

Ethan (53:45):
funny. Do you have a sense of the town? I think Yeah.
You got a really good sense ofthe town from this film. Yeah.
All right. I don't know. I feellike we've covered a lot of
bases there. Yeah, we've got Idon't think there's anything I
would change one of these days.
We're going to do the movie thatprompted this question, by the
way, which is the movie thatactually started this podcast,
which we have now reviewed?

Sage (54:04):
We okay, I don't know if we've ever even mentioned this.
I don't think so on the podcast.
So since this has been like youfeel a little like Easter you
can find out. So we watched themovie Oculus actually. Okay, we
used to do this really funthing. It was like maybe a few
summers ago. Or maybe it wasback when we had fun. Yeah, like

(54:25):
during COVID or something. Wheneverything was on lockdown. It
would be like 10 or 11 at night.
Yeah. And sometimes I just gowandering around the house.
Because my mom and my brotherthey both go to sleep super
early. We don't know. They'regoing to sleep early at night. I

(54:46):
hate waking up early. So it'snot like it would be 10 or 11. I
just be wandering the house andevery so often I'd find you down
here playing a video game orwatching a movie or something
and we choose a horror movie andwatch it Yeah, that was so fun
to do it again. But one of themovies we want Just one night
was Oculus not a super wellknown horror movie or not as
well known? Oh, yeah, not asfun. Yeah. But that night, we

(55:10):
talked for a long time justannulled basically doing what we
do on the podcast here. Yeah. Sowe weren't recording. And that
was like, that was years ago.
Yeah, I must have been at thispoint. Because I think at one
point, I was like, Hey, weshould record this. You kind of
had to convince me to do this.
But now we'll say threatened

Ethan (55:27):
but

Sage (55:32):
but yeah, yeah. I'm glad I decided, like, I wasn't sure
about doing this podcast becauseit was like, will it ever even
get off the ground? Sure. How doyou do a podcast? But I am. I'm
so grateful that I did do it.
And I'm so I'm very happy withit. I love doing this podcast.
It's so fun. And I'm so gladthat a lot of people connect

(55:52):
with it and enjoy it. And Iwould like to thank Oculus are
starting at all.

Ethan (55:57):
Yeah, we'll record it.
I'm grateful for this podcast,too. I think it's awesome.

Sage (56:01):
Thank you for joining us on this episode of the teen
horror cast. You can follow uson Twitter and Instagram at teen
horror cast where we'd love tohear from you. Let us know what
films you'd like to hear usreview. See you next episode.

Ethan (56:13):
See you then bye bye Alright,

Sage (56:25):
nothing like the psycho scream.

Ethan (56:27):
Let's go. Oh, yeah, actually are the Wilhelm scream
did nothing Well, I'm screamingOh, I

Sage (56:32):
feel like yeah, no, I

Ethan (56:33):
feel like it's a scream that gets used over and over
again. Yeah, after movie. Yeah.
That's not bad. I think. I'msure you're gonna hear that.
Well, this can be could be likeactually, because it sounds kind
of crazy.