Jill Hopkins is the Director of Civic Events and New Media for Metro Chicago and Gman Tavern in Chicago. She's served as the host of several podcasts, including Making Beyonce for WBEZ and The Opus for the Consequence Podcast Network, and was a radio personality for CHIRP and Vocalo Radio for over ten years.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi and welcome back to Tell Me What Happened, the podcast that features folks from
(00:29):
all walks of life telling us one true childhood story and how that event, that experience,
has impacted who they are. I'm your host, Jay Rehack, and like you, I've had my share of childhood
moments, experiences that have impacted who I am today. Some of them were beautiful, some of
(00:51):
them were pleasant, and some of them were quite painful. But I'd like to think that everything
that's ever happened to me has made me a better person. Now I know in my heart that that may not
be true, but that's what I'd like to think. Today I have as my guest Jill Hopkins. Jill is the
(01:11):
director of Civic Events and News Media for Metro Chicago and G-Man Tavern in Chicago. She's served
as the host of several podcasts, including Making Beyoncé for WBEZ and The Opus for the Consequence
Podcast Network and was a radio personality for CHERP and Vocalo Radio for over 10 years. And I'm
(01:32):
going to add to that and tell you that Jill, back in the day, and I don't know how long it's been,
was one of my, one of the magnificent students that I had over at Whitney Young High School. She
helped me get through the day with her insights and smiles. So welcome to the show, Jill Hopkins.
Hey, it was class of 97, by the way. Oh, wow. Okay. All right. Now I know. I really didn't, I couldn't
(01:58):
remember. My wife asked me this morning and I said, I don't know. I know she's been out of school
for a while because I listened to Vocalo for a while and that was back a few years now, I suppose.
And I know you've been doing, you've been hosting like, don't you like host Moth,
Rehours or those types of events? Yeah, I host the Moth Live events. I'm one of a few different hosts
(02:21):
that we have here in Chicago. I host the Moth. I occasionally host a Right Club, which is a great
kind of storytelling debate club kind of thing that's right up your alley, actually. I think your
daughter's actually been on a couple of those. So you've got to come out and hang out. But no,
yeah, just if there's a live event, I'll host it. I've got like a fundraise in Gala this week. So
(02:45):
I think the superpower that I've developed in my adult life is just lack of fear of public speaking.
It doesn't exist. That's a fabulous skill, Jill. And you had it back in the day. I wouldn't have
thought it was 97, but I know you've been doing it for a long time. And I do know that my daughters
(03:06):
have been a part of some of those programs. And I don't know if I've got anything worthy to say,
but I'd love to get involved one of these days. But thank you very much. That's very kind. Well,
Jill, I am looking forward to hearing your story. Are you ready to tell it? I am ready to tell it.
Fantastic. Well, listen, before I mute myself, and I will meet myself in a minute, I just want to
(03:32):
mention to you that I'm going to listen without interrupting you. And then at the end, I'm going
to be asking you absolutely one question. And that one question is, how do you think that the
story that you're telling us has impacted who you are today? So take it away. One of my favorite
students, Jill Hopkins, think about the cruelest thing that anyone has ever said to you. Like,
(03:58):
don't think about the thing itself. I don't want to bring your day down, but think about who said
it and how mean it was, how deeply it cut to the bone. It was a child, wasn't it? It was a mean
child. I have heard stories about cruel children. Since I was a child, they make movies about the
ones who are possessed by demons or haunted by ghosts or have red hair, which seems really cruel
(04:24):
in and of itself. There's nothing wrong with being a redhead shout out to the incorrectly
maligned redhead community. You didn't deserve this. Now, I don't have children myself for a
variety of reasons, but not the least of which is that I've heard about how children are little
self-esteem killers. And I'm too fragile to be told about myself in blunt detail every day. When
(04:46):
I was in high school, for some reason, they sent a bunch of us drama club kids to grade schools to
talk to younger kids about pursuing the arts as they went on in their education. And one kid told
me a 16-year-old person at the time that I looked haggard. I thought at the time, I am still
(05:08):
technically a child too. I will beat you up by the flagpole, right? But I know now that it's a
never-ending flood of unexplained hormonal changes and the ebb and flow of social experiences and
expectations that makes the youth this way. I just don't want any part of it as an adult if I can
(05:29):
help it. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the kids, but it is not my ministry. The band ministry is
closer to my ministry than this. And it would feel weird to combine the two. For instance,
let me tell you about two young girls being the absolute worst to each other. I'm using my Sophia
from Golden Girls Voice here when I say picture it. The South Side of Chicago, 1988. Two middle
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school girls having a confrontation in the girls bathroom in a nearly 100-year-old Catholic school
building. And yeah, let's picture that. The girls are wearing like those little pinafore plaid
uniforms and the shirts underneath are pink. The boys at the time had to wear like these brown
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trousers, like poop-colored brown trousers and yellow shirts. It was just an awful sartorial
decision being made for children back then. And not only were the shirts the girls were wearing
were pink. So was the bathroom. Pepto-bismal pink. Every wall, every door. But the arguments that
were had in there were red hot. Here are some things you want to know about this battle royale
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happening between two roughly 10-year-old girls. Both girls are ethnic and this matters
because of hand movements and intensity. And if you know, you know, one girl is black, the other is
half Mexican, half Puerto Rican, and that matters because I feel like you know, have to know which
hand movements and how much intensity. It was about a 12 on a 1 to 10 scale. This argument may not
(07:04):
have started about new kids on the block, but it quickly became about new kids on the block.
And the black girl, that's me, she loved Jordan Knight the most and the Latina was a Joey Mac
entire girl. This is important when you're 10 years old. There's a hierarchy in your boyband
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fandoms. Friendships are created and broken because of them. I have a photo album in my house right
now that has a list of all of my girlfriends written in eyeliner pencil on the back. And each
one has been scratched out and rewritten and scratched out and rewritten over and over again.
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Now these two warriors in this pep-toe pink bath room had matching best friend forever necklaces,
the kind with two halves of a heart, one that said be fry and the other one that said
end. You know the ones you can get them all over the city. And as you know, this is the highest
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level of friendship one can ever hope to achieve. So as this argument goes on, there's a certain
level of niceness still involved because we are small Catholic school children. There were never
any swears. There was never any like insulting of family members, mothers off limits. These were
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wonderful women who welcomed us into their homes. But any sort of G rated insult was fair game to
how you did your makeup that you were not supposed to be wearing by the way. How you dressed on the
weekends because since we all had to wear the same thing every day, how you dressed on the weekends
was pretty much like a social marker. The other famous boys you might have a crush on, you could
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insult them all day long. Now as this escalated and escalated and escalated, I unfortunately have
to say that I had to deliver the death knell to this argument. Pitcher, there's a bathroom stall
and I'm standing half in and half out of this bathroom stall and I say to the girl,
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as I'm ripping the best friend necklace from my neck, the clasp and all, this is what you're doing
to my heart. I said this to her. I let the necklace go into the toilet and reached up with my little
foot in a burgundy penny loafer and flushed the toilet behind me as the best friend necklace swirls
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down into the Southside tour. Now there was immediate regret. I loved my friend. I thought
she was great. She was like one of the newer kids in our class, no pun intended, but she was like
really nice. She had good taste in music. Her mom always let us hang out at her house and listen to
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freestyle music, but also I came to the realization that her mom was the one that had bought new kids
on the block tickets for us to see them the next month at the Rosemont horizon. And this one incident
started a domino effect where for the rest of the school year, we girls were so awful to each other
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that for the entire summer between fifth and sixth grade, every week, we had to report to the school
library for group therapy so we could understand how to be respectful young Catholic women.
And you know, it worked. We had to still go to school with each other for the next three years.
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And we all decided about halfway through that summer that instead of turning on each other,
what if we just hated the boys instead? And I like to think that that was the best possible
resolution to that sort of thing. And I did finally get to see the new kids on the block
about six years ago. I rented a limo, bought three cases of Zima and piled about 12 of my best
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girlfriends, all of us in our 30s, late 30s, late 30s. And we went out to Rosemont, put jolly ranchers
in those Zimas and had one hell of a time. And I still talked to that girl I fought with in that
porta potty or that pep-toe pink bathroom or friends on Instagram. Her children are grown for the
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most part. And I think there's a non-zero chance that she, I and our husbands might go on a
Puerto Rican vacation together. So happy endings all around. And I'm still a Jordan girl for the
Jordan girl for the record. Mean girls. I mean, you know, the, the, the fifth, sixth grade or just
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that time period, sometimes I have two, two beautiful daughters and one of them's in her,
well, they're both in the 30s. And they tell me horror stories afterwards. I missed it. I didn't
see it at the time because I was the dad, but I didn't see it. But I, I, you know, to this day,
those, you know, painful transition period times, I'm so glad to hear that your friends, you know,
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that you weren't, you know, permanently damaged. I suppose you did miss the new kids on the block
first concert as a consequence, as payment or punishment for, for, for, you know,
thrashing it down the toilet. Yeah, certainly did not get to go on like cool family adventure trips
for the next few months. And those therapy sessions were crazy. Like you, now you got to show up to
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school every week all summer. Eventually we talked the lady into like taking us to the mall or whatever.
That's good. I'm glad they did that because you know, you do need that. So,
so Jill, how do you think that event that flushing down the best friend necklace, you know, sort of,
that's, that's, that's really quite a dramatic, dramatic, you know, finale or whatever, you know,
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or seeming finale to the relationship, like you're dead to me or whatever. I know how I mean,
I mean, right with you, you know, I mean, it's, it's hilarious in retrospect, but I guess at the
time I'm sure very painful. Oh yeah, you know, just big fat, real tears or like, you know, it's,
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you don't have boyfriends, I guess. Well, I didn't, we didn't. This is as close as you get to like a
breakup. Friendship breakups are really hard. And you have them as you get older. Somebody once said
to me that friendships are for a reason, a season or a lifetime. And you don't always know that as
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you're growing up. You kind of, it kind of becomes obvious as you get older, as people come and go
throughout your life. But when you're in fifth grade or something, everything seems so permanent.
You've only been alive for like 10 years. I agree. And you know, I, the author, Victor Hugo said,
God save me from my friends. I know who my enemies are. And I live by that where the most painful
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exchanges I've ever had in my life were exchanges with my friends who said some really deep cutting
things against me. And I still remember, I'm, I'm, I'm 67. So I'm a little, I'm over it and to the
extent, but when I, I see some old friends, we actually apologize for the stuff we said,
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you know, 50 years ago, and they're like, man, don't, and I just say, don't worry about it.
But it's true that I haven't forgotten it. And, and these guys have not forgotten the
stupid things I said too. So how do you think that fight? I know you've already told us that
you're still friends with these, with these, this young woman, but how do you think that experience,
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that singular experience of, you know, the breakup, the fifth grade breakup with, with your friend,
how do you think that's impacted who you are today as a person?
I mean, I've, I think once you get into high school, once you're out of like middle school and
junior high and your brain has a little more time to cook in that easy bake oven up there,
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and you, you realize how much of an impact your words can have on somebody else,
even if you don't think that highly of yourself, it doesn't mean that others don't hold your words
in high regard. So I've, I've tried to be, I haven't always succeeded, but I've definitely
been very thoughtful about the words that come out of my mouth, especially as I'm,
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as a, as a communicator by trade, but also just as somebody who, who values the people that I've
met, I've, I've like curated a really important group of people to me. And I would really
really like to maintain this streak. So when I'm speaking to my friends, especially, I, I try to
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make sure that the experiences I have with them in the past and the things I know about them
make me deal with everyone with a bit of grace and sensitivity and to lead with kindness, I suppose.
I, I, and I'm trying to think like even in like romantic relationship breakups, there's probably
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two men in this world who disagree with what I'm about to say right now, but I don't think I've been
needlessly cruel in breaking up with anybody because, you know, unless I've also never been like
been treated poorly enough in relationships that like it would make me want to be needlessly cruel
to somebody. So I guess I'm very lucky in that, but like yours, you can have arguments with people
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and not be a terrible person within that time. Your feelings don't have to cause you to be cruel.
And I think we should remember that, especially online when we're dealing with strangers who are,
maybe they're idiots or whatever, but like, we don't have to be a day-ruiner for somebody else
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because I think you're just turning into a day-ruiner for yourself. And the, the new kids on the block
tickets, those go away. Oh God, well, that's so, that's so wise. I can't tell you because,
and I wish that I were better at it myself. I remember listening to the musical group
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traffic and they said, open your mouth, shoot someone dead at a line. And I always thought,
yeah, I do have to watch out because unfortunately for me, when I was young, that my mouth was my
weapon. I, you know, I would say really mean things. And I would always say it was my justifiable
rage in the sense that somebody said something to me. So then I was like, oh, you want to play that?
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I'll, I'll one up you in meanness, I guess, in verbal meanness. And then I would ask, were you a scrapper back in the day?
I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was really, I have my own Catholic school experiences,
but back in the day, I just, I was, I was just, I don't know, I tried to be a nice guy, but I don't
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know, people would aggravate me and then we'd get into situations and then I'd have go, all right,
and I always used to say to people, I was a jerk, but I, people want to fight me or something. I'd
say, I know I might get hurt, but I wouldn't want to be the other guy. That was my line to everybody,
you know, and I'd go, and then, or I would also say, I would rub my head and I'd say, please,
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please, I'm begging you, don't make me hurt you. I'm begging you as a courtesy to me, please,
don't make me hurt you. And you know, he's like, this guy is vigilante, man. Anyway, I grew out of it.
I'm still, I'm, I'm still working on it, you know, through the various therapies and everything else,
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but I'm trying to be a better man all the time. I mean, I'm trying, you know, I'm not, I'm not
saying I'm there, but I'm trying. And I realized as you've articulated and you got, I probably got
the message before I did it, words, words count, be careful what you say. And I mean, in your business,
it's just us to end it, but in your business, you know, you listen to stories, you host programs.
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If you're not a gracious host, you could really hurt somebody's, you know, self-esteem. Jill says,
I'm no good or whatever, the host of the thing says, you know, it wasn't very good and like,
devastating, you know, you could, you could turn an audience on somebody if you wanted to, you know,
just by making a, an offhanded joke that you don't, you know, you're not trying to be hurtful, but it
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may come across as dismissive to the person. I tried to be a better man, a better, a good teacher
in that regard too, try not to say something to somebody that they said, mystery accent,
I'm not a good writer. I never said that. I never told anybody that. I can't even picture that coming
out of your mouth, honestly. That's good. I mean, I enjoyed your class very much. One of the only
ones that I went to on a regular basis. I appreciate it very much. You've been a superstar,
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a subsequent, you were kind enough to interview me on vocal a many years ago, which I really
appreciated and I have heard you and you're, you're gracious and I'm kind of glad that they,
they had that therapy session for you back in sixth grade. I don't know, you know, I'm glad the
teachers were aware of that it's important because, because a lot of kids miss that and then they
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wind up being mean to each other throughout their pubescence or even beyond. I'll tell you what,
so like the summer, that same summer, they, we got a new order of nuns in. So I always say we went
from uniform to plain clothes and they were all radically younger. They were all kind of radicals
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in and of themselves, very, very feminist. They all played guitar, you know. Yeah, I know the guy.
I know the people. And like, I think that if we had, had not had that kind of changing of the
guard that we wouldn't have gotten that therapy out of it. I think they wanted to come in and like
with this clean slate, but I can't imagine that those thousand year old Eastern European hard,
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hard, they were hard women. Yes. No, I had to say, it's funny. I mean, I was, I'm significantly
older than you, but we transitioned from old nuns who would literally, literally beat the
children, you know, if they were, you know, to young nuns who we, we still had habits, but we
could see some of their hair and it was like this big breakthrough for us. It was like, old,
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miss, you know, sister so and so has hair. That's incredible. We, you know, as they, because they
were all covered up, but yeah, I mean, and I was grateful for the younger nuns who came in and, and
ran our, you know, six, seven, the eighth grade and were gracious and I, I shout out to them and
shout out to your, your teachers as well. Well, it seems like he came out happy on the other side,
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so I'm happy about that. And I'm glad your friends all right as far as you know.
He's living her life. She's got like, she and her husband are loving up on each other, their
children look happy and well adjusted, which is all you can hope for, I guess. And like,
they all go on like these family vacations and like, well, that you invited her into the limo
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for the, for the new kids. I did. He lives on the far, far, far south side and, you know, just,
it didn't work out just, you know, schedule wise, but it would have been, it would have been a great
little like loop closing there, but we had so much fun. One of the, one of our friends got like
serenaded to like in the front. Nice. Well done. I know I've never been so jealous, but I handled it
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in a much better way than I did. You did not throw away your BF necklace that time.
I was, I never would. This was so cool. Well, thank you, Jill, for coming on the show. I know
you're a busy woman and you got a lot going on and I just feel kind of honored to circle back
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and see you and hear from you. I appreciate your time. We're going to do this in real life again
here soon. You've got to come visit me at G-Man. Are you a baseball guy? You want to go to a game?
No, I, you know what? I don't go to games. I get frustrated by the whole process. I wanted,
I wanted to be third baseman for the white socks when I was growing up and then I had,
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I had to get a job because my folks didn't have any money or whatever. So I always blame them
for me not getting the training to be what I consider would have been a good, I would have
been a good third baseman. But so anyway, baseball games frustrating, but that said, if you, you,
you, you, your story time, you know, when, when do they occur? Right Club is at G-Man Tavern,
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the third Tuesday of every month and the Moth Radio Hour, those live events, they vary because
they're at different locations throughout the city. But if you go to the Moth in Chicago Facebook
page, there's all sorts of information for tickets and locations and it's just a cute time over there.
We have fun. Now I've been to a couple of them. I just haven't been one to one with you hosting. I
(25:17):
don't think. Oh man, well let me host you. You know, that's, oh, I don't know if I'm worthy of you.
In the front row, tall guys just. Right. Blocking everyone else's view of people. Down in the front.
I go, no, I know her. I can, I can stand up. Yes, Chris. No, I love to be on, you know,
(25:38):
I love to hear it. I'm sort of coming out of my COVID experience now in the sense that for a while,
honestly, we didn't, my wife and I, my beautiful wife's been with her for 38 years as of last
Saturday. We are married for 38. We had known each other for 41, but we only are not just starting
to go out literally and have dinner or something. We don't, we, we, for years since the COVID, we
(26:03):
order in, but we don't really live. We don't, you know, go to a communal experience almost,
you know, like a, like a moth or like a G-man thing. So we're going to do that.
This organization called the Clean Air Club that gives or provides those like, I don't know,
this big, those little air purifiers. Yeah. Yeah. Although this big for our
(26:25):
right to the room. So we do as much as we can, you know, we have masks there for people who
maybe left theirs at home. We encourage that sort of thing. We're all just giving it the old college
try. All right. To be continued, I'm in. I definitely want to come in and hear you and I'm
happy to tell the story or whatever, but even just participate anyway, I can. But I really
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appreciate you coming on this show. Thank you. And I'm trying to get my mouth to say J and it
just wants to say mystery. That's all right. I'm thrilled that, like I said, we, we reconnected.
I'd like to thank our listeners for listening in. And so until next time, this is J React asking
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you all to please stay safe out there and try not to hurt anybody.
Tell me what happened to you.
Hi and welcome back to Tell Me What Happened, the podcast that features folks from
(00:29):
all walks of life telling us one true childhood story and how that event, that experience,
has impacted who they are. I'm your host, Jay Rehack, and like you, I've had my share of childhood
moments, experiences that have impacted who I am today. Some of them were beautiful, some of
(00:51):
them were pleasant, and some of them were quite painful. But I'd like to think that everything
that's ever happened to me has made me a better person. Now I know in my heart that that may not
be true, but that's what I'd like to think. Today I have as my guest Jill Hopkins. Jill is the
(01:11):
director of Civic Events and News Media for Metro Chicago and G-Man Tavern in Chicago. She's served
as the host of several podcasts, including Making Beyoncé for WBEZ and The Opus for the Consequence
Podcast Network and was a radio personality for CHERP and Vocalo Radio for over 10 years. And I'm
(01:32):
going to add to that and tell you that Jill, back in the day, and I don't know how long it's been,
was one of my, one of the magnificent students that I had over at Whitney Young High School. She
helped me get through the day with her insights and smiles. So welcome to the show, Jill Hopkins.
Hey, it was class of 97, by the way. Oh, wow. Okay. All right. Now I know. I really didn't, I couldn't
(01:58):
remember. My wife asked me this morning and I said, I don't know. I know she's been out of school
for a while because I listened to Vocalo for a while and that was back a few years now, I suppose.
And I know you've been doing, you've been hosting like, don't you like host Moth,
Rehours or those types of events? Yeah, I host the Moth Live events. I'm one of a few different hosts
(02:21):
that we have here in Chicago. I host the Moth. I occasionally host a Right Club, which is a great
kind of storytelling debate club kind of thing that's right up your alley, actually. I think your
daughter's actually been on a couple of those. So you've got to come out and hang out. But no,
yeah, just if there's a live event, I'll host it. I've got like a fundraise in Gala this week. So
(02:45):
I think the superpower that I've developed in my adult life is just lack of fear of public speaking.
It doesn't exist. That's a fabulous skill, Jill. And you had it back in the day. I wouldn't have
thought it was 97, but I know you've been doing it for a long time. And I do know that my daughters
(03:06):
have been a part of some of those programs. And I don't know if I've got anything worthy to say,
but I'd love to get involved one of these days. But thank you very much. That's very kind. Well,
Jill, I am looking forward to hearing your story. Are you ready to tell it? I am ready to tell it.
Fantastic. Well, listen, before I mute myself, and I will meet myself in a minute, I just want to
(03:32):
mention to you that I'm going to listen without interrupting you. And then at the end, I'm going
to be asking you absolutely one question. And that one question is, how do you think that the
story that you're telling us has impacted who you are today? So take it away. One of my favorite
students, Jill Hopkins, think about the cruelest thing that anyone has ever said to you. Like,
(03:58):
don't think about the thing itself. I don't want to bring your day down, but think about who said
it and how mean it was, how deeply it cut to the bone. It was a child, wasn't it? It was a mean
child. I have heard stories about cruel children. Since I was a child, they make movies about the
ones who are possessed by demons or haunted by ghosts or have red hair, which seems really cruel
(04:24):
in and of itself. There's nothing wrong with being a redhead shout out to the incorrectly
maligned redhead community. You didn't deserve this. Now, I don't have children myself for a
variety of reasons, but not the least of which is that I've heard about how children are little
self-esteem killers. And I'm too fragile to be told about myself in blunt detail every day. When
(04:46):
I was in high school, for some reason, they sent a bunch of us drama club kids to grade schools to
talk to younger kids about pursuing the arts as they went on in their education. And one kid told
me a 16-year-old person at the time that I looked haggard. I thought at the time, I am still
(05:08):
technically a child too. I will beat you up by the flagpole, right? But I know now that it's a
never-ending flood of unexplained hormonal changes and the ebb and flow of social experiences and
expectations that makes the youth this way. I just don't want any part of it as an adult if I can
(05:29):
help it. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the kids, but it is not my ministry. The band ministry is
closer to my ministry than this. And it would feel weird to combine the two. For instance,
let me tell you about two young girls being the absolute worst to each other. I'm using my Sophia
from Golden Girls Voice here when I say picture it. The South Side of Chicago, 1988. Two middle
(05:53):
school girls having a confrontation in the girls bathroom in a nearly 100-year-old Catholic school
building. And yeah, let's picture that. The girls are wearing like those little pinafore plaid
uniforms and the shirts underneath are pink. The boys at the time had to wear like these brown
(06:15):
trousers, like poop-colored brown trousers and yellow shirts. It was just an awful sartorial
decision being made for children back then. And not only were the shirts the girls were wearing
were pink. So was the bathroom. Pepto-bismal pink. Every wall, every door. But the arguments that
were had in there were red hot. Here are some things you want to know about this battle royale
(06:39):
happening between two roughly 10-year-old girls. Both girls are ethnic and this matters
because of hand movements and intensity. And if you know, you know, one girl is black, the other is
half Mexican, half Puerto Rican, and that matters because I feel like you know, have to know which
hand movements and how much intensity. It was about a 12 on a 1 to 10 scale. This argument may not
(07:04):
have started about new kids on the block, but it quickly became about new kids on the block.
And the black girl, that's me, she loved Jordan Knight the most and the Latina was a Joey Mac
entire girl. This is important when you're 10 years old. There's a hierarchy in your boyband
(07:24):
fandoms. Friendships are created and broken because of them. I have a photo album in my house right
now that has a list of all of my girlfriends written in eyeliner pencil on the back. And each
one has been scratched out and rewritten and scratched out and rewritten over and over again.
(07:45):
Now these two warriors in this pep-toe pink bath room had matching best friend forever necklaces,
the kind with two halves of a heart, one that said be fry and the other one that said
end. You know the ones you can get them all over the city. And as you know, this is the highest
(08:07):
level of friendship one can ever hope to achieve. So as this argument goes on, there's a certain
level of niceness still involved because we are small Catholic school children. There were never
any swears. There was never any like insulting of family members, mothers off limits. These were
(08:30):
wonderful women who welcomed us into their homes. But any sort of G rated insult was fair game to
how you did your makeup that you were not supposed to be wearing by the way. How you dressed on the
weekends because since we all had to wear the same thing every day, how you dressed on the weekends
was pretty much like a social marker. The other famous boys you might have a crush on, you could
(08:58):
insult them all day long. Now as this escalated and escalated and escalated, I unfortunately have
to say that I had to deliver the death knell to this argument. Pitcher, there's a bathroom stall
and I'm standing half in and half out of this bathroom stall and I say to the girl,
(09:23):
as I'm ripping the best friend necklace from my neck, the clasp and all, this is what you're doing
to my heart. I said this to her. I let the necklace go into the toilet and reached up with my little
foot in a burgundy penny loafer and flushed the toilet behind me as the best friend necklace swirls
(09:50):
down into the Southside tour. Now there was immediate regret. I loved my friend. I thought
she was great. She was like one of the newer kids in our class, no pun intended, but she was like
really nice. She had good taste in music. Her mom always let us hang out at her house and listen to
(10:12):
freestyle music, but also I came to the realization that her mom was the one that had bought new kids
on the block tickets for us to see them the next month at the Rosemont horizon. And this one incident
started a domino effect where for the rest of the school year, we girls were so awful to each other
(10:37):
that for the entire summer between fifth and sixth grade, every week, we had to report to the school
library for group therapy so we could understand how to be respectful young Catholic women.
And you know, it worked. We had to still go to school with each other for the next three years.
(11:01):
And we all decided about halfway through that summer that instead of turning on each other,
what if we just hated the boys instead? And I like to think that that was the best possible
resolution to that sort of thing. And I did finally get to see the new kids on the block
about six years ago. I rented a limo, bought three cases of Zima and piled about 12 of my best
(11:30):
girlfriends, all of us in our 30s, late 30s, late 30s. And we went out to Rosemont, put jolly ranchers
in those Zimas and had one hell of a time. And I still talked to that girl I fought with in that
porta potty or that pep-toe pink bathroom or friends on Instagram. Her children are grown for the
(11:53):
most part. And I think there's a non-zero chance that she, I and our husbands might go on a
Puerto Rican vacation together. So happy endings all around. And I'm still a Jordan girl for the
Jordan girl for the record. Mean girls. I mean, you know, the, the, the fifth, sixth grade or just
(12:17):
that time period, sometimes I have two, two beautiful daughters and one of them's in her,
well, they're both in the 30s. And they tell me horror stories afterwards. I missed it. I didn't
see it at the time because I was the dad, but I didn't see it. But I, I, you know, to this day,
those, you know, painful transition period times, I'm so glad to hear that your friends, you know,
(12:43):
that you weren't, you know, permanently damaged. I suppose you did miss the new kids on the block
first concert as a consequence, as payment or punishment for, for, for, you know,
thrashing it down the toilet. Yeah, certainly did not get to go on like cool family adventure trips
for the next few months. And those therapy sessions were crazy. Like you, now you got to show up to
(13:10):
school every week all summer. Eventually we talked the lady into like taking us to the mall or whatever.
That's good. I'm glad they did that because you know, you do need that. So,
so Jill, how do you think that event that flushing down the best friend necklace, you know, sort of,
that's, that's, that's really quite a dramatic, dramatic, you know, finale or whatever, you know,
(13:39):
or seeming finale to the relationship, like you're dead to me or whatever. I know how I mean,
I mean, right with you, you know, I mean, it's, it's hilarious in retrospect, but I guess at the
time I'm sure very painful. Oh yeah, you know, just big fat, real tears or like, you know, it's,
(13:59):
you don't have boyfriends, I guess. Well, I didn't, we didn't. This is as close as you get to like a
breakup. Friendship breakups are really hard. And you have them as you get older. Somebody once said
to me that friendships are for a reason, a season or a lifetime. And you don't always know that as
(14:21):
you're growing up. You kind of, it kind of becomes obvious as you get older, as people come and go
throughout your life. But when you're in fifth grade or something, everything seems so permanent.
You've only been alive for like 10 years. I agree. And you know, I, the author, Victor Hugo said,
God save me from my friends. I know who my enemies are. And I live by that where the most painful
(14:47):
exchanges I've ever had in my life were exchanges with my friends who said some really deep cutting
things against me. And I still remember, I'm, I'm, I'm 67. So I'm a little, I'm over it and to the
extent, but when I, I see some old friends, we actually apologize for the stuff we said,
(15:09):
you know, 50 years ago, and they're like, man, don't, and I just say, don't worry about it.
But it's true that I haven't forgotten it. And, and these guys have not forgotten the
stupid things I said too. So how do you think that fight? I know you've already told us that
you're still friends with these, with these, this young woman, but how do you think that experience,
(15:32):
that singular experience of, you know, the breakup, the fifth grade breakup with, with your friend,
how do you think that's impacted who you are today as a person?
I mean, I've, I think once you get into high school, once you're out of like middle school and
junior high and your brain has a little more time to cook in that easy bake oven up there,
(15:53):
and you, you realize how much of an impact your words can have on somebody else,
even if you don't think that highly of yourself, it doesn't mean that others don't hold your words
in high regard. So I've, I've tried to be, I haven't always succeeded, but I've definitely
been very thoughtful about the words that come out of my mouth, especially as I'm,
(16:20):
as a, as a communicator by trade, but also just as somebody who, who values the people that I've
met, I've, I've like curated a really important group of people to me. And I would really
really like to maintain this streak. So when I'm speaking to my friends, especially, I, I try to
(16:42):
make sure that the experiences I have with them in the past and the things I know about them
make me deal with everyone with a bit of grace and sensitivity and to lead with kindness, I suppose.
I, I, and I'm trying to think like even in like romantic relationship breakups, there's probably
(17:05):
two men in this world who disagree with what I'm about to say right now, but I don't think I've been
needlessly cruel in breaking up with anybody because, you know, unless I've also never been like
been treated poorly enough in relationships that like it would make me want to be needlessly cruel
to somebody. So I guess I'm very lucky in that, but like yours, you can have arguments with people
(17:30):
and not be a terrible person within that time. Your feelings don't have to cause you to be cruel.
And I think we should remember that, especially online when we're dealing with strangers who are,
maybe they're idiots or whatever, but like, we don't have to be a day-ruiner for somebody else
(17:55):
because I think you're just turning into a day-ruiner for yourself. And the, the new kids on the block
tickets, those go away. Oh God, well, that's so, that's so wise. I can't tell you because,
and I wish that I were better at it myself. I remember listening to the musical group
(18:16):
traffic and they said, open your mouth, shoot someone dead at a line. And I always thought,
yeah, I do have to watch out because unfortunately for me, when I was young, that my mouth was my
weapon. I, you know, I would say really mean things. And I would always say it was my justifiable
rage in the sense that somebody said something to me. So then I was like, oh, you want to play that?
(18:39):
I'll, I'll one up you in meanness, I guess, in verbal meanness. And then I would ask, were you a scrapper back in the day?
I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was, I was really, I have my own Catholic school experiences,
but back in the day, I just, I was, I was just, I don't know, I tried to be a nice guy, but I don't
(19:02):
know, people would aggravate me and then we'd get into situations and then I'd have go, all right,
and I always used to say to people, I was a jerk, but I, people want to fight me or something. I'd
say, I know I might get hurt, but I wouldn't want to be the other guy. That was my line to everybody,
you know, and I'd go, and then, or I would also say, I would rub my head and I'd say, please,
(19:22):
please, I'm begging you, don't make me hurt you. I'm begging you as a courtesy to me, please,
don't make me hurt you. And you know, he's like, this guy is vigilante, man. Anyway, I grew out of it.
I'm still, I'm, I'm still working on it, you know, through the various therapies and everything else,
(19:43):
but I'm trying to be a better man all the time. I mean, I'm trying, you know, I'm not, I'm not
saying I'm there, but I'm trying. And I realized as you've articulated and you got, I probably got
the message before I did it, words, words count, be careful what you say. And I mean, in your business,
it's just us to end it, but in your business, you know, you listen to stories, you host programs.
(20:05):
If you're not a gracious host, you could really hurt somebody's, you know, self-esteem. Jill says,
I'm no good or whatever, the host of the thing says, you know, it wasn't very good and like,
devastating, you know, you could, you could turn an audience on somebody if you wanted to, you know,
just by making a, an offhanded joke that you don't, you know, you're not trying to be hurtful, but it
(20:28):
may come across as dismissive to the person. I tried to be a better man, a better, a good teacher
in that regard too, try not to say something to somebody that they said, mystery accent,
I'm not a good writer. I never said that. I never told anybody that. I can't even picture that coming
out of your mouth, honestly. That's good. I mean, I enjoyed your class very much. One of the only
ones that I went to on a regular basis. I appreciate it very much. You've been a superstar,
(20:55):
a subsequent, you were kind enough to interview me on vocal a many years ago, which I really
appreciated and I have heard you and you're, you're gracious and I'm kind of glad that they,
they had that therapy session for you back in sixth grade. I don't know, you know, I'm glad the
teachers were aware of that it's important because, because a lot of kids miss that and then they
(21:19):
wind up being mean to each other throughout their pubescence or even beyond. I'll tell you what,
so like the summer, that same summer, they, we got a new order of nuns in. So I always say we went
from uniform to plain clothes and they were all radically younger. They were all kind of radicals
(21:42):
in and of themselves, very, very feminist. They all played guitar, you know. Yeah, I know the guy.
I know the people. And like, I think that if we had, had not had that kind of changing of the
guard that we wouldn't have gotten that therapy out of it. I think they wanted to come in and like
with this clean slate, but I can't imagine that those thousand year old Eastern European hard,
(22:07):
hard, they were hard women. Yes. No, I had to say, it's funny. I mean, I was, I'm significantly
older than you, but we transitioned from old nuns who would literally, literally beat the
children, you know, if they were, you know, to young nuns who we, we still had habits, but we
could see some of their hair and it was like this big breakthrough for us. It was like, old,
(22:31):
miss, you know, sister so and so has hair. That's incredible. We, you know, as they, because they
were all covered up, but yeah, I mean, and I was grateful for the younger nuns who came in and, and
ran our, you know, six, seven, the eighth grade and were gracious and I, I shout out to them and
shout out to your, your teachers as well. Well, it seems like he came out happy on the other side,
(22:55):
so I'm happy about that. And I'm glad your friends all right as far as you know.
He's living her life. She's got like, she and her husband are loving up on each other, their
children look happy and well adjusted, which is all you can hope for, I guess. And like,
they all go on like these family vacations and like, well, that you invited her into the limo
(23:21):
for the, for the new kids. I did. He lives on the far, far, far south side and, you know, just,
it didn't work out just, you know, schedule wise, but it would have been, it would have been a great
little like loop closing there, but we had so much fun. One of the, one of our friends got like
serenaded to like in the front. Nice. Well done. I know I've never been so jealous, but I handled it
(23:48):
in a much better way than I did. You did not throw away your BF necklace that time.
I was, I never would. This was so cool. Well, thank you, Jill, for coming on the show. I know
you're a busy woman and you got a lot going on and I just feel kind of honored to circle back
(24:09):
and see you and hear from you. I appreciate your time. We're going to do this in real life again
here soon. You've got to come visit me at G-Man. Are you a baseball guy? You want to go to a game?
No, I, you know what? I don't go to games. I get frustrated by the whole process. I wanted,
I wanted to be third baseman for the white socks when I was growing up and then I had,
(24:32):
I had to get a job because my folks didn't have any money or whatever. So I always blame them
for me not getting the training to be what I consider would have been a good, I would have
been a good third baseman. But so anyway, baseball games frustrating, but that said, if you, you,
you, you, your story time, you know, when, when do they occur? Right Club is at G-Man Tavern,
(24:53):
the third Tuesday of every month and the Moth Radio Hour, those live events, they vary because
they're at different locations throughout the city. But if you go to the Moth in Chicago Facebook
page, there's all sorts of information for tickets and locations and it's just a cute time over there.
We have fun. Now I've been to a couple of them. I just haven't been one to one with you hosting. I
(25:17):
don't think. Oh man, well let me host you. You know, that's, oh, I don't know if I'm worthy of you.
In the front row, tall guys just. Right. Blocking everyone else's view of people. Down in the front.
I go, no, I know her. I can, I can stand up. Yes, Chris. No, I love to be on, you know,
(25:38):
I love to hear it. I'm sort of coming out of my COVID experience now in the sense that for a while,
honestly, we didn't, my wife and I, my beautiful wife's been with her for 38 years as of last
Saturday. We are married for 38. We had known each other for 41, but we only are not just starting
to go out literally and have dinner or something. We don't, we, we, for years since the COVID, we
(26:03):
order in, but we don't really live. We don't, you know, go to a communal experience almost,
you know, like a, like a moth or like a G-man thing. So we're going to do that.
This organization called the Clean Air Club that gives or provides those like, I don't know,
this big, those little air purifiers. Yeah. Yeah. Although this big for our
(26:25):
right to the room. So we do as much as we can, you know, we have masks there for people who
maybe left theirs at home. We encourage that sort of thing. We're all just giving it the old college
try. All right. To be continued, I'm in. I definitely want to come in and hear you and I'm
happy to tell the story or whatever, but even just participate anyway, I can. But I really
(26:49):
appreciate you coming on this show. Thank you. And I'm trying to get my mouth to say J and it
just wants to say mystery. That's all right. I'm thrilled that, like I said, we, we reconnected.
I'd like to thank our listeners for listening in. And so until next time, this is J React asking
(27:10):
you all to please stay safe out there and try not to hurt anybody.
Tell me what happened to you.
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