Telling Jefferson Lies: Debunking the Myth that America was Founded as a Christian Nation
Season Two is here! The first episode was posted on April 14. Telling Jefferson Lies chronicles how history can be hijacked for ideological and political purposes, as well as a much broader story about the surge of Christian nationalism and the misuse of history which often goes along with it. The series begins with an in-depth consideration of the methods of Christian nationalist story teller David Barton. Then I tell the story of how his book on Jefferson was pulled from publication in 2012 and the response of evangelicals to that rare event. From there, I broaden the scope to examine the varieties of Christian nationalism and the negative consequences of this way of thinking about church and state. The last segment examines the reasons why the separation of church and state is good history, good civics, and good religion. For more information, go to http://www.gettingjeffersonright.com.
Episodes
Why are Christian nationalists angry about the New York City Democratic mayoral primary victory of Zohran Mamdani? They surely are. Many are blaming "unchecked" immigration for his win. White Christians nationalist fear they are being replaced by too many non-Christians and too many black and brown people. In light of this event and the overall attacks on immigrants taking place in Trump's America, have...
Be it resolved: America's founders established a secular government with provision for a religious people. When the delegates met in Philadelphia in the summer of 1787, they deliberately prevented the government from favoring any religion. Then when the Bill of Rights were added, freedom of religious expression was guaranteed.
Those who wanted a Christian government at the time were upset at what they called the ...
Recently, David Barton and Matt Krause testified in front of the Texas House of Representatives Public Education committee. Barton and Krause both said some historically questionable things to support the placement of the Ten Commandments in every Texas classroom. A premise of this podcast is that it takes faulty history to pursue Christian nationalist goals, one of which is to erode separation of church and state.
Te...
In this segment, I examine the notion that there was something remarkably Christian about America's founding era. Last week, I fact-checked Charlie Kirk's viral video defense of the belief that America was founded as a Christian nation in the legal sense. Most of what Kirk had to say was irrelevant or incorrect.
Today, I consider an overview of moral and religious failings during the founding era. Along with...
In 2024, Charlie Kirk distributed a five-minute video defense of the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation. It has been played at least 20 million times on various social media platforms and is full of faulty history. This segment serves to correct the false claims and defend the proposition that America's founders set out to found a secular government with provision for religious pluralism. Unfortu...
On January 3, 2025, Louisiana Representative Mike Johnson was re-elected to be Speaker of the House. In his acceptance speech, he quoted a prayer that he said Thomas Jefferson said every day during his presidency and every day of his life thereafter.
There is a problem with this story. The prayer was written 56 years after Jefferson died. Jefferson never said the prayer even one day of his life. Later, Johnson and the...
In 2024, a video featuring Charlie Kirk defending America as a Christian nation was viewed over 10 millions times on social media. Many of the claims were false or misleading. This season of Telling Jefferson Lies will examine this video and other Christian nation claims by Christian nationalists in addition to Kirk.
The first full episode is planned for April.
There are lies, there are Jefferson Lies, and then there ...
Although the dates have not been set, new episodes of Telling Jefferson Lies are coming this Spring. I want to go deeper into the faulty history of Christian nationalism but also examine the psychology behind it as well.
Christian nationalism as an ideology is much more complex than fake quotes and false stories. The way history has been written from the beginning of the arrival of the Europeans must be exam...
On September 3, 2024, author and historian Jemar Tisby's new book The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance officially drops everywhere. Today, I am posting most of the interview I conducted with Jemar for use in my podcast series Telling Jefferson Lies.
In this episode, I recreate my questions because of a recording glitch in the original. The recording on Jemar's end was ...
On July 2, 2024, Caleb Campbell's new book Disarming Leviathan: Loving Your Christian Nationalist Neighbor officially drops everywhere. Today, I am posting most of the interview I conducted with Caleb for use in my podcast series Telling Jefferson Lies.
In this episode, I do say I want to smash Christian nationalists, but I hope it is clear that I am not serious, but instead I agree with Caleb's ap...
Excerpts from my interview with Scott Coley, lecturer in philosophy at Mount St. Mary's University. His new book Ministers of Propaganda: Truth, Power, and the Ideology of the Religious Right is out this week. In this bonus episode of the podcast series Telling Jefferson Lies, Scott discusses Christo-authoritarianism and the role of justice in overcoming self-interest.
Music credits:
Seiche by Dusti...
Often debates focus on Christian nationalism and the problems which come from blurring the line between church and state. In this episode, I end the Telling Jefferson Lies series with some thoughts and testimony from experts about what is good about separation.
Helping me close out the series are:
Randall Balmer, John Phillips Chair in Religion, Dartmouth College
Caleb Campbell, Pastor, Desert S...
In 2005, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor asked an important question for those who would erode separation of church and state: "Why would we trade a system that has served us so well for one that has served others so poorly? "
I spend much of this episode affirming that we should not trade. Much of this series has been raising alarm about Christian nationalism and supporting separation of church an...
In this segment, I argue that Christian nationalism is bad for religion in general and bad for Christianity in the specific case. This segment sets up the finale which argues that separation of church and state is a benefit to the United States and should be strengthened.
If you like experts and multiple voices, this is the segment for you. Here is the lineup:
Randall Balmer, John Phillips Chair in ...
In this short bonus episode, Dartmouth College professor Randall Balmer provides an introduction to reasons why he doesn't see the U.S. as a Christian nation.
Dr. Balmer is the John Phillips Chair in Religion at Dartmouth College. He has spoken at numerous colleges and universities, including where I met him, Grove City College.
Balmer has published more than a dozen books, including Redeemer: The Life ...
In general terms, I believe Christian nationalism is bad history, bad politics, and bad religion. In prior episodes, I have concentrated on the bad history. In this segment and the next, I focus mainly on the bad politics. Around the world, religious nationalism is associated with state sponsored violence against citizens, use of force to take political control, erosion of the separation of church and state, degrading...
As promised, here is the completion of my examination of David Barton's whitewashing of Thomas Jefferson. In our book Getting Jefferson Right: Fact-Checking Claims About Thomas Jefferson, Michael Coulter and I assume the position held by most scholars and the Thomas Jefferson Foundation when it comes to the paternity of Sally Hemings children, i.e., Thomas Jefferson was their father.
In The Jefferson Li...
This supplements episode 10, Still Searching for Christian America, Part Two. You can listen to this first, but I definitely encourage you to go back and catch up if you do.
Everybody in Christian nationalism is talking about the seven mountains message. The message is at the root of much violent rhetoric coming from Christian nationalists but according to one of the key players in the movement, the origin s...
Note: Earlier versions of this segment had a low quality version of a speech by Jerry Falwell. The audio problem has been corrected.
In this episode, I describe the National Prayer Breakfast movement, right-wing Christian nationalists, Reconstructionists, and non-denominational charismatic Christian nationalists.
My guests for this episode are:
Julie Ingersoll, Professor of religion at th...
In 1983, Mark Noll, Nathan Hatch, and George Marsden published a book titled The Search for Christian America. They concluded that there was nothing uniquely Christian in the founding of the United States and there is no Christian America to which to return.
In this episode, both Drs. Noll and Marsden join me to say they believe today they were right in 1983 and the same conclusions are correct today. In bet...
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