August 22, 2024 • 33 mins
In the final episode of Season 2, co-hosts Ted Stank and Tom Goldsby speak with Elijah Ray, chief customer officer of Sunland Logistics Solutions about the evolution of third-party logistics, the importance of company culture, employee retention, and creating trust with clients.
With nearly four decades of experience in logistics and supply chain management, Ray has contributed to a culture of continuous improvement and big-name brand engagement at Sunland. He is a member-at-large and former president of the Council of Supply Chain Management Professionals.
Don’t miss this exciting discussion on great workplace environments, thriving business partnerships, creating value for both parties, leading with care, and more.
The interview with Elijah Ray starts at 5:40.
The episode was recorded on August 15, 2024, during the GSCI Advisory Board meeting at the Haslam College of Business.
Related links:
- US unemployment claims fall in sign of resiliency in job market
- Inflation dipped in July, Fed expected to cut interest rates
- Canada rail strike, lockouts slated to start this week
- Register for the Fall 2024 Supply Chain Forum, Nov. 12–14 in Knoxville
- Become a Supply Chain Forum member
- Download our latest white papers for free
- Subscribe to GSCI’s monthly newsletter
- Read the latest news and insights from GSCI
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Introduction (00:00):
Welcome to the Tennessee on Supply Chain
Management podcast.
Listen in as co-hosts Ted Stankand Tom Goldsby set sail into
the world of end-to-end supplychain management, diving deep
into today's most relevantbusiness topics.
They'll share insights inpressing industry issues and
tackle the challenges keepingsupply chain professionals up at
night.
If you're enjoying the ride,download and subscribe to
(00:22):
Tennessee on Supply ChainManagement on your favorite
podcast platform now.
Ted Stank (00:28):
Hello everybody and welcome to Tennessee on Supply
Chain Management podcast.
We were just informed by ourproducer, brian Kniever, that
this is season two, episode 12,the last episode of season two.
Tom, have you heard anythingabout whether we're going to get
produced again for next year?
Tom Goldsby (00:43):
I think we might get picked up, but a lot rests
on today's show, so it hadbetter be good.
Ted Stank (00:50):
No pressure, huh.
Well, my name's Ted Stank, oneof your co-hosts, and that was
Tom Goldsby, our other co-host.
Hey, Tom, how are you doing?
Tom Goldsby (00:57):
Doing great Ted.
Ted Stank (01:05):
We actually happen to be recording for you during a
session of our Global SupplyChain Institute Executive
Advisory Board meeting, and soour guest today, elijah Ray, who
we'll introduce in a littlewhile, is joining us from that
ad board meeting.
We just had a wonderful meal.
Was that chicken or pork?
It was chicken.
Tom Goldsby (01:15):
There was chicken and beef.
Ted Stank (01:17):
Chicken and beef.
Like always, we're going tostart off with some news from
the broader economic andgeopolitical world and then talk
about some things that aregoing on in supply chain, and
then we're going to bring Elijahon to talk about what's
happening in his world ofthird-party logistics and some
of the stressors challenges thathe sees coming up.
Tom, what do you got to lead usoff?
Tom Goldsby (01:37):
Well, I think we've got to lead with the
presidential election right herein the United States of America
.
Big, big overtures, big changessince our last podcast and you
know we usually don't delve intothe political, but we did a
little bit in that last podcast.
But there's just no way toavoid this news.
It's so substantial, with JoeBiden stepping out and handing
(02:01):
over the reins of the Democraticnomination to Kamala Harris and
, of course, former PresidentTrump taking a shot.
Ted Stank (02:10):
Man, those two weekends in July were just
unbelievable, incredible.
Tom Goldsby (02:13):
Well, they say sometimes what a decade happens
in a month, and other times amonth happens in a decade.
Ted Stank (02:20):
Yeah so and all the momentum was to former President
Trump for a week and then allof a sudden the news about Biden
backing out and just completelychanged the dynamics of the
race and obviously for those ofus in supply chain management
there's a lot hanging on.
Who wins that election?
You know, if the Trumpadministration comes in promises
of 100 percent, potentially 200percent tariffs on product
(02:43):
coming from China or fromChinese companies located in
Mexico, you know a lot of bigsupply chain issues going on,
that what happens withgeopolitical relationships and
where suppliers are located andglobal network designs, lots of
different things thateverybody's kind of just sitting
around waiting on to see whathappens.
Tom Goldsby (03:01):
Well, we heard a presentation just this morning
from one of our own forummembers talking about how the EV
market could dramaticallychange overnight, depending upon
which way that election goesright, and so entire businesses
are kind of on hold.
Supply chains may be on hold.
Ted Stank (03:18):
Yeah, so we're going to be coming to you with
podcasts over the next threemonths as we head into November.
It's going to be interestingtimes, right?
Elijah, an old friend of ours,tom Mentzer, rest in peace.
One of his favorite sayings wasmay you live in interesting
times.
Wow, and it was a curse, not ablessing.
Tom Goldsby (03:37):
There we are.
There we are Interesting times,no doubt.
Speaking of interesting times,you know talk about the
presidential election.
I'm sure we will in more depthin future podcasts.
But the stock market has beentaking such a wild ride as well,
which is just kind of anexposition of the uncertainty,
different levels of chaos.
It seems like the big hit tomarket about two weeks now has
(04:00):
kind of leveled out.
But we're now getting theearnings reports too, which is
pretty interesting, A real mixedbag of earnings reports, a
mixed bag of earnings reports.
Ted Stank (04:07):
So can I be controversial?
Tom Goldsby (04:10):
You've let me do this before.
Ted Stank (04:11):
Yeah, let's do it.
You know our friends in financeand I'm not talking about
corporate financial people, I'mtalking about Wall Street
investment financial people.
I've been sitting hereentertained over the last
several months as Wall Streethad this euphoria about.
We're going to invest in techcompanies because of the AI boom
and it's just going to keepgoing like this forever and it's
(04:34):
going to bring the stock marketto unrealized levels.
And then one report that comesin from like an NVIDIA that is
not up to what theirexpectations were.
The world is failing.
Ai is not going to be what itwas supposed to be.
We got to back out of this.
It's like come on, guys, youknow.
It's like anybody who knowsbusiness could sit back and say
(04:56):
we know all this is going on,it's all fake.
What are you doing?
You know?
And yet here we are.
And I just I mean, if so muchmoney wasn't at play, it would
be really humorous.
Tom Goldsby (05:07):
But you're right, You're right and just failed.
Swoops swinging and swaying inall directions as if they've
always got it figured out andreally, really they don't.
You know, you and I Elijah, I'mgoing to bring you into this
too I mean, we're prettyfundamental when it comes to
business.
Right, you make something, yousell something, you know all
this hocus, pocus stuff.
Ted Stank (05:28):
Sure, Just don't get too excited, so we're Warren
Buffett's when it comes tofinance.
Tom Goldsby (05:32):
That's right, I got to understand the business
model.
Introduction (05:35):
That's a model I can buy into, you know what we
keep talking about Elijah Tom.
Ted Stank (05:37):
You want to introduce Elijah.
He's sitting here with us.
Yeah, no, we really should.
Tom Goldsby (05:40):
Why don't you bring him in?
So a very good friend to Tedand me also to our program here
at the University of Tennessee,mr Elijah Ray, chief Customer
Officer at Sunland LogisticsSolutions, based in Greenville,
south Carolina, he's a member ofour advisory board, also past
board chair of CSCMP, anotherorganization that means a great
deal to us and primarily throughCSCMP, ted and I have known you
(06:03):
for decades.
Elijah Ray (06:04):
Yeah, absolutely Look.
First of all, let me just thankyou all for having us.
It's great to be here with you.
You guys are good friends frommany, many years ago, so we're
very grateful to share thisplatform with you.
Tom Goldsby (06:17):
Well, we appreciate it.
Elijah Ray (06:18):
It's great to have you with us.
Tom Goldsby (06:18):
We figured that while you were on campus today,
we'd pull you into the podcast.
Introduction (06:22):
Really appreciate that you did.
Tom Goldsby (06:29):
Maybe to provide a little more perspective for
folks who may not be familiarwith Sunland.
Elijah Ray (06:31):
Can you tell us a little bit about Sunland?
So Sunland Logistics is a SouthCarolina-based organization,
greenville, south Carolina.
The company has been around forabout 40 years with an emphasis
primarily in contract logisticsor warehousing and value-added
services.
I mentioned that we've beenaround for 40 years, but over
the last 10 years we'veexperienced just significant
(06:53):
growth and we are a growthorganization.
We serve five verticals acrossthe country, primarily in the
eastern part of the country, butwe're growing US wide.
We have a global leadershipteam.
If you look at our leadershipteam, we have senior leaders
from throughout the 3PL spectrumand so we're excited about
(07:15):
where we are as a 3PL and as agrowing 3PL in the country.
Ted Stank (07:21):
Elijah, great to have you with us again, really
looking forward to getting yourperspectives on what are some of
the bright spots, some of thechallenges, both for Sunland and
for the industry in general, aswe move forward.
Elijah Ray (07:32):
I am responsible for elite growth and customer
relationships with Sunland, andso one of the things that we're
seeing is we've seen a softnessin the marketplace over the last
several months, and so there'ssoftness in our business and the
number of opportunities that weget, and then there's some
softness in the business of ourcustomers as well, and you know
(07:54):
what that means.
We're already under a costmicroscope, if you will.
It's with greater intensity intimes like these, so one of the
things that we're seeing withour customers is the microscope
on cost and cost management, aswe typically see in times like
these.
Ted Stank (08:12):
So that really plays into some of the things that Tom
and I are tracking in thebroader economy right, the Fed
is talking about less focus oninflation.
Inflation numbers seem to bekind of coming back to pre-COVID
levels that the Fed wants tosee.
The July CPI came in belowthree, which you know.
That's kind of the good news.
(08:32):
The bad news is unemploymentinching up Some of the earnings,
even from we were making frontof Wall Street, but even from
some of the main streetbusinesses like Home Depot, some
softness in the earnings report.
So you're certainly seeing that,exactly, exactly, yeah, I guess
.
Unemployment up to 4.3% Right,not huge from historical
standards, but the direction hasbeen up the last couple of
(08:55):
months.
Tom Goldsby (08:55):
Right.
Ted Stank (08:55):
I think the other thing you know that economists
track is credit card debtAmericans' credit card debt's
way up and more people missingcredit card payments every month
.
So again, this affects us atMain Street.
Elijah Ray (09:07):
right, it does Exactly.
Tom Goldsby (09:09):
Exactly Now, elijah , something I'd just like to ask
you.
As you were just describing,the logistics service industry
is a derived industry.
Right, you have clients andyou're going to ride the waves
with the highs and the lows withthem Exactly.
And you use the term softening.
Can I use just anotherexpression of just kind of
catching?
Introduction (09:27):
your breath.
Do you think?
Tom Goldsby (09:27):
maybe there's an opportunity to kind of catch
your breath here a little bit,because we talk about labor
issues.
That's been such a struggle forservice providers.
Is there some sense that maybethings are starting to stabilize
and that could be a positive.
Elijah Ray (09:40):
Yeah, look, I think that to some extent it does help
.
We see the labor situationeasing a little bit, but you
know, we started talking aboutthis labor thing 10, 15 years
ago and I think it's just thereality of the market, the 3PL
market, and not just thegrassroots labor or the labor in
the warehousing floor, but eventhe talent base in general,
(10:02):
even the professional talentbase.
But at the grassroots level Ithink it's getting a little bit
better, but there's still achallenge getting great people,
and so that's something I thinkwe'll have to deal with on an
ongoing basis in our profession.
We don't have the sexiest jobs,if you will, with forklift
(10:22):
operators, you know, in awarehousing-based organization.
That's the challenge for uswhen it comes to, you know,
hiring great people and qualitypeople to accomplish what our
customers want us to accomplish.
Tom Goldsby (10:34):
Well, it's something I go back to and Dave
Clark in our last episode kindof challenged the US labor
numbers that we were using.
But I think we can observe thatthe number of warehouse workers
presently employed in AmericanWarehouse more than double where
it was, like a decade ago,right.
And it's just incredible tothink about how we've been
trying to soak up that talent.
(10:55):
As you point out, warehousingis not usually the first stop
for folks if they're thinkingabout where they want to employ
themselves, put their time right.
So that just kind of providessome context to the challenge
you all have had.
Like you said, it's not just inthe last few years, it's going
back 10, 15 years.
Elijah Ray (11:08):
Yeah, it really is.
And I think what we have to dowhen we're talking to people who
we want to hire in warehousing,that it's not necessarily the
end of the road.
If you have aspirations, youcan go further than just a
forklift operator and you canbecome a lead person or you can
become a supervisor, you canbecome a manager, because there
are growth opportunities and asour profession becomes more
(11:30):
prominent and we know there'smore recognition on our
profession and on our discipline, especially since COVID we
thought even before COVID westarted to see the evolution and
the elevation of our profession.
Tom Goldsby (11:41):
Well, we've always thought it was cool.
We always thought it was cool,we've always thought it was
really cool.
Elijah Ray (11:46):
Yes, exactly, you know, when you wake up one
morning and you see Tom Goldsbyon TV talking about logistics
and supply chain, you know andyou can see that our industry
has evolved and obviously, aswe've looked at what has
happened with COVID and theprominence of our profession, it
continues to gain traction atthe CEO level.
(12:07):
So, look, probably don't needto say that, but the reality is
that is what drives us now isthat we're going to see more and
more prominence to ourprofession, which not
necessarily makes it easier, butI think it makes it easier to
sell, if you will.
Ted Stank (12:20):
Let's pivot to some other things that are happening
out there, Elijah, and get yourtake on how it will influence
your part of the supply chain,Kind of related to labor, right.
There are some major laborissues going on with some of our
big transportation arms in thesupply chain.
Canadian railroads very likelyto go on strike this week.
They've actually stopped takingshipments of hazardous
(12:44):
materials because they can'tleave those unattended on the
tracks if the workforce walksout.
So that started on Monday ofthis week, Today's Thursday, so
that is an imminent labor issueabout to happen.
Obviously we get a lot ofproduct from those Canadian
railroads.
And then the other one is theimpending labor negotiations for
Gulf and East Coast ports.
(13:05):
Things are not looking as rosythere as they had been in the
not too distant past in terms ofhow those negotiations were
going.
The union's asking for up to an80% increase in wages and the
port operator's making an offerthat they thought was fair and
the union's saying no, it's noteven close.
So your take on how that mightimpact us in the near future
(13:26):
from a supply chain disruptionstandpoint and maybe longer term
, from a labor and labornegotiation standpoint.
Elijah Ray (13:32):
Yeah, ted, that's an interesting question.
Yeah, ted, that's aninteresting question.
I think that, as we think aboutlabor in general and how these
(14:01):
situations like that will end up, I think we have to think about
how we elevate the roles ofthose positions and be sensitive
to what they do and how theyserve our companies and serve
the supply chain in general.
Of course, it's hard topinpoint exactly what the
outcome will be.
Ted Stank (14:15):
As part of our advanced supply chain
collaborative, we've been doingsome research on what does it
take to retain this youngerworkforce?
What are the things they'relooking for?
And we look predominantly inmanufacturing in the past,
although I think we're going tolook more in the distribution
warehousing element as well inthe future but a lot of it was
not wage related.
It was other things thatthey're looking for in an
(14:36):
employment situation to keepthem on the job.
Elijah Ray (14:39):
Right, yeah, exactly , and look the both of you.
We know a person who's done alot of work in this space.
This guy named RobertMartichenko, and I think to this
issue whatever labor type ofissues we have with large
organizations and unions a lotof it gets back to some of these
basic things like dignity andrespect and trust, and this is
(15:03):
what you know, some of the workthat Robert Martichenko has done
.
And so in our organization wespend a lot of time on this.
Care for the individual Cultureis big for us, really, really
big for us, and so that's partof how we try to win the
recruiting and retention game bymaking the workplace just
(15:24):
really pure and building atrusting environment between our
leadership and the people whowork on the floor, who work with
us.
So creating that environment,that type of environment, is
essential for us and a priorityfor us.
And I say that because and Ibring up Robert's name because
(15:44):
he has recognized that as asignificant issue and especially
, but not just in our disciplinebut disciplines period, but in
in our profession, given thenature of it, whether it's rail,
whether it's warehousing,whether it's port, they're the
same issues of dignity, respect,understanding and empathizing
(16:10):
with individuals and that trust.
Ted Stank (16:12):
I'm not as familiar with the warehouse environment
and the workers' requirements,but I have done some work with
driver retention.
And you hear things like theypull up to a dock at a
manufacturing location andthey're not allowed to come
inside and use the restroom, orthey have to keep their truck
running and using fuel becausethey're sitting out in the
parking lot in 100-degreeweather waiting for a dock door
(16:34):
to open up for hours.
I know how I feel sitting onthe tarmac in an aircraft.
Tom Goldsby (16:46):
So I've attacked Wall Street now.
But, Elijah, you're absolutelyright.
I mean, there's some universalthemes here, regardless of where
we're talking, you know,transportation, warehousing,
logistics or healthcare.
Yeah, that's another big one,and just recognizing again this
notion of meaningful engagement,which is what.
Robert has really helped toshine a light, and that's just a
(17:06):
little teaser for a futurepodcast because we are going to
be featuring Robert and your CEO, Arch Thomason, in a future
podcast.
Ted Stank (17:14):
If we've been picked up for a third season, we can do
a little self-serving, I guess,if we're so fortunate to get
that third season.
Tom Goldsby (17:20):
this is going to be a few episodes in, but we've
got them lined up for the forum.
Ted Stank (17:23):
Are we getting that, Brian?
Are you Two thumbs up, not justone?
Tom Goldsby (17:26):
That's really encouraging.
Hey, you also dropped somereference to trust there and
absolutely that's essentialemployer, employee.
But also I'm thinking about howthat trust transcends to your
client engagements and in thesetumultuous times, how critical
is it that, hey, we've had yourback in good times and bad,
(17:50):
regardless of what the futuremight have in store.
Those clients are looking toyour organization to absorb a
lot of this chaos, right,Absolutely, and it takes immense
amounts of trust.
Can you talk a little bit abouthow that culture that you have
within the organization atSunland kind of transcends and
reaches to your client base?
Elijah Ray (18:09):
Yeah, so great, great point.
So, look, we like to think ofourselves as an extension of our
customers, and how we do thatis through our people, right?
Whether it's the senior level,whether it's the grassroots
level, we inspire the confidenceof our customers and the trust
(18:29):
of our customers through ourpeople, regardless of the level.
And so if we don't have trustat the grassroots level and if
we don't have that collaborationinternal, our customers won't
feel that either.
So that's really a priority ofour business is to bring people
in, have that internalcollaboration and that internal
(18:51):
culture which reaches ourcustomers, and it's not just
something we just talk about.
We have systems in place thathave regular cadences, if you
will, with our customers atvarious levels, so that they
feel that connection with us andthat we are serving them.
You know, in the uncertaintimes as well, that we have
(19:15):
systems in place to communicateand to talk to each other, so
that we might not be alwaysahead of them, but we can
respond and react accordingly tosome of the issues that occur
in the supply chain.
Ted Stank (19:29):
I heard from several shippers if you will right,
manufacturers, retailers duringthe pandemic pandemic that if
they had great relationshipswith their service providers,
they were far better able todeal with the uncertainty that
we were encountering on analmost daily basis during that
time period.
Have you seen that trust levelwith some of your client base
(19:51):
that was established because youbailed them out during the
pandemic?
Have you seen that continue orhave we gone back to business as
usual?
Elijah Ray (19:58):
No, I actually think and look, it really does depend
a lot on the cultures withinthose companies, but for the
most part, whenever you bailsomeone out of a bad situation,
we see that trust accelerate.
We do, and look, we've been insituations where we've been very
new with a customer and we sawthe mutual cultures or the
(20:22):
common cultures in difficultsituations where we got in there
toe to toe, didn't necessarilyagree to everything, as we were
in the battle or in the war, ifyou will, in the battle or in
the war, if you will.
But because we got to adifferent level, we solved
problems together, that trustaccelerated, that the
relationship is now tighter, andso that's the power of these
(20:45):
relationships, that's the powerof culture and looking for the
foundational points for cultureas you enter relationships as
well.
And so we're very intentionalabout that also and about the
systems and building therelationships based on the
things that our customers and wewant to accomplish as an
(21:06):
organization.
Tom Goldsby (21:07):
Yeah, but I suspect that's why you've achieved that
growth.
Again a Greenville, southCarolina-based company.
I look at your footprint veryhigh concentration in the
Southeast.
Elijah Ray (21:16):
Right.
Tom Goldsby (21:16):
And then, lo and behold, you got facilities in
the Midwest and the West rightIs that where those clients are
like hey, we love what you'redoing in this footprint.
Elijah Ray (21:24):
Come with us, you're right on because that's where
the growth has occurred is thatwe take on a piece of business
for a company and they say, well, look, can you go do this
elsewhere?
And that's how we've grown andthat's, I suspect, how we will
continue to grow from time totime, taking new logos and what
have you.
So it's a lot of fun doing thatright, building the trust,
(21:46):
gaining the trust and continuingto grow.
Tom Goldsby (21:48):
I love that trust accelerator.
Yeah, yeah, it is Is today'spodcast, kind of a trust
accelerator, with us here.
I hope so.
Ted Stank (21:58):
I hope so, guys, it's always entertaining to me to
think that we spend so much ofour time educating our
undergraduates and our graduatestudents about all the concepts
and processes involved in supplychain management and we always
give kind of short shrift to ohyeah, you're going to go out and
ultimately it's a people joband you have to manage people
(22:19):
Right, but we're not going totalk about that.
You're going to learn that.
We talk about relationshipsbetween organizations, but we
don't spend a huge amount oftime on it.
And yet, when you cut rightdown to it, here we are into
this podcast and most of whatwe've talked about is people and
relationships.
Elijah Ray (22:36):
Yeah, exactly when we open up conversations with
customers, we talk about peopleearly on, and not just, again,
the people at the senior levels,but the grassroots level,
because that's the whole natureof our business.
We have a people business andagain we're a housing base where
people, they operate forkliftsand automation and all these
(23:01):
things and so as our old friendLloyd Reinhart would have said,
the blocking and tackling.
Exactly so.
We have to inspire people toachieve what both companies need
to achieve, so that trust is soessential and that
understanding is so essential.
Ted Stank (23:17):
Great example.
Thomas Deakins, our executivedirector of our forum, was
telling me the other day that hewas flying back with his wife
from DC and the flight wasdelayed.
And so they told him you know,go get food or whatever, and you
know we'll make an announcement.
They weren't expecting it.
He was having lunch at arestaurant in the airport and
(23:39):
gets a phone call.
I'm going to say the name of theairline, because it's a good
thing it's American Airlines.
It was a phone call from thegate agent saying Mr Deakins,
are you going to make thisflight?
And he goes yeah, I didn'tthink it was boarding for a
while.
She goes no, we're boarding,we've boarded and we're waiting
for you.
Can you get here?
And he got on the flight and heand his wife got home and you
know.
But if that gate agent hadn'thad the care to say, hey, I want
(23:59):
to make sure this persondoesn't get left stranded, I'm
going to call them, I meanthat's to me, that's way above
and beyond the call of duty andthat's up to a person.
It's up to a person.
It really is, because that gateagent could have said you know
what?
Not my job.
He's not here.
Elijah Ray (24:14):
Too bad, exactly, exactly yeah.
Tom Goldsby (24:16):
You know I've always said, no matter how
important I feel I am, theairlines don't really care that
plane is going to take off.
But but Tom's Deakins,apparently, is important enough
to hold up.
Now I will point out that thatwas not heading into a hub
airport, that was a directflight back to Knoxville.
But and he did have status, avery high status with the
airline.
(24:36):
That he said has elapsed since,but it just makes it that much
more.
Ted Stank (24:40):
But still, I mean it just to me points out the
importance of your people, right, right.
That's somebody who is verydedicated to her organization,
to her job.
I say her I think Thomas toldit Some people wouldn't have
done it if they didn't have thatcommitment and that culture,
exactly wouldn't have done ifthey didn't have that commitment
and that culture.
Tom Goldsby (24:58):
Exactly so it sounds like.
Again, we invoked Lloyd.
Ted Stank (24:59):
Reinhart, which is fantastic.
For those who don't know, Lloydis a colleague of ours who
retired a few years ago, but hewas a champion of the nitty
gritty of logistics.
Tom Goldsby (25:08):
And it seems like, as we talk about, despite
whiz-bang technologies, it'sstill a people oriented business
in which we find ourselves, youknow.
That said, let's kind of lookout into the future a little bit
.
I mean, how do you think thelogistics service industry will
change?
I mean, I think that thosefundamentals that you've laid
out are going to continue to bejust as relevant into the
(25:28):
indefinite future, but how doyou think our world is going to
change and how are serviceproviders going to have to adapt
?
Elijah Ray (25:35):
world is going to change and how our service
provider is going to have toadapt.
Yeah, look, great question, tom.
I think we'll continue to see agreater need for automation and
people will still be involved.
So it's about coaching andteaching people how to deal with
automation.
That's one of the things thatwe'll deal with.
I think that we'll continue tosee complexities in logistics
(25:58):
and supply chain and, again,thinking back on warehousing and
how warehousing has changed,we'll see, because that's where
you have the greatest amount ofpeople you know in supply chain
and from a logistics perspective.
So I think we'll seecomplexities.
I think that you will continueto see the need for partners to
(26:31):
become closely and tightlyintegrated and for organizations
to creating the dignity and thetrust.
All of those things have to bepresent or we're not going to be
as successful.
So I think I just pointed outautomation, I just pointed out
complexities, I just pointed outthe need to really embrace the
(26:51):
people component, because it'sthe people component that really
is going to make the difference.
You have to have leadership inplace that understands how to
inspire people to accomplish theend game.
So, and I think, obviously,cost will always be at the top
and, from a 3PL perspective.
Again, the lens of a 3PL ourmargins are always very, very
(27:14):
tight.
Taking on relationships wherecustomers respect the margins of
a 3PL and understand that thereis a value equation and there
is a way to get the value, thereverse flow in terms of why you
might want to engage with aprospective client as well.
Tom Goldsby (27:32):
So we want to work with good cultures, we want to
get a reasonable return.
Elijah Ray (27:58):
Plus, we want to work with someone who has a need
that we can serve and they'regoing to value the service we
provide and they're going tovalue us as an organization.
Tom Goldsby (28:09):
I've always said that value is a two-way street.
Elijah Ray (28:11):
Yeah, it is.
Tom Goldsby (28:12):
And certainly customers are demanding, they
expect to be satisfied, theywant good ROI.
But so few companies reallyunderstand If we talk about
financial value, growth value ofwhat a client brings to the
table.
In fact, years ago we did asurvey of companies, found that
only 16% of companies understoodthe financial return that they
(28:33):
generated in working with aclient.
Now, in the logistics servicesector, it was a bit higher.
Introduction (28:39):
Because you all make a bad deal, you feel it,
you feel it You've got to run alife of that agreement, right,
exactly.
Tom Goldsby (28:45):
Oh, that was hot we're not going to do that, I'm
not going to put my hand on thatstove Right and you all learn,
and that's what we found is thatproject-based companies tend to
be pretty good at itManufacturers, wholesalers,
distributors, a lot of them, no,just didn't register, and
that's where, again, do you findthat when you're seeking out
those clients, is it morecomfortable to kind of stick
(29:06):
within a vertical, maybe try togrow your footprint within an
industry, a segment of themarket, or do you find a lot of
growth and opportunity outsidethat segment?
I mean, what's most appealing,and maybe it depends upon the
capital position which you findyourself.
Elijah Ray (29:22):
Yeah, again, great question.
I think the verticals that weserve we try to be focused on
those.
However, when we see cultureand an opportunity to bring
value outside of the verticalsthat we serve and we see that
mutual trust as we are engaging,we like those and we will
(29:43):
pursue.
We're very careful about who weconnect with, who we engage
with.
But where we see similarcultures and if that company and
what they do fall outside ofthe verticals that we are really
good in, we will engage andwe've seen that happen and we
have great success with that.
(30:04):
When it happens, key is culture.
Ted Stank (30:07):
Yeah.
So another way of reallyaccelerating that trust is
finding those culture matches.
Elijah Ray (30:12):
Yeah exactly and really they sound warm and fuzzy
, but the culture piece is real.
It really is.
Ted Stank (30:19):
I had a doctoral student when I first got here to
Tennessee who was really ontothe topic of culture.
He was a pretty senior guy,he'd been in the industry for a
long time.
I come from an operationsbackground and I realize now I
was being naive and notrecognizing it because I think
I'd always understood theculture, part of it and, and you
know, even on an interpersonalbasis.
But I used to poo poo him about.
(30:41):
You know, let's move on tosomething more meaty.
This culture stuff is just, youknow, and the older I get, the
more I.
I mean it's the old PeterDrucker saying, right Then,
culture eats strategy.
Um boy, I just have become asuch a bigger believer.
And again, I guess, again wehave a third season that's been
picked up so we can beself-serving again.
(31:01):
But as I look around, like atour executive advisory board
meeting and at the team thatwe've built here at at Tennessee
, we have a very distinctculture and companies that are
attracted to us share thatculture, right.
So, like when you walked inlast night at dinner, I hugged
you and I hugged a lot of peoplecoming in because you guys are
good friends of mine.
You know, and it's not just atransactional thing, that's just
(31:23):
the power of culture, man.
Elijah Ray (31:25):
That's why I'm sitting in this room right now,
that's why I take the time outof my schedule to be come learn,
come contribute, becausethere's a culture here that is
very, very powerful.
Ted Stank (31:41):
I'm always humbled by the fact that really powerful,
busy people like you take thetime to come to Knoxville,
Tennessee, which is not an easyplace to get to.
Elijah Ray (31:44):
And there will be more of us coming later this
year as well, because of theculture that you guys have here
For our forum.
That's right.
Yeah, the forum, that's right.
We're so looking forward tothat.
Tom Goldsby (31:53):
Well, hey, ted, we've covered a lot of ground
with Elijah and we've got to getback.
We've got a whole afternoonsession that we need to run
through with our orbit.
Elijah, thank you so much forparticipating in the podcast,
but also, more importantly, forwatching into our program and
being so receptive andencouraging to what we do.
Ted Stank (32:12):
Thanks for the invitation.
I love our theme.
You know that the theme herehas been it's all about people,
people.
It's all about relationships.
It's all about how you dealwith people in these
relationships.
Tom Goldsby (32:21):
Hey, speaking of people and relationships, are
you ready to receive a new batchof Vol students that are
arriving on campus next week?
Ted Stank (32:27):
Absolutely, thomas and I are getting ready to teach
.
You have a class of 700.
I think I have a class of 700.
A lot of new Vol supply chainfolks.
Tom Goldsby (32:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
The new season is upon us, notjust podcast season number three
, but also a new academic seasonhere, and we're expecting big
things in the classroom as wellas on those sports shows.
Ted Stank (32:48):
A lot of you know this is early in the season.
They always say, like inbaseball, hope springs eternally
.
I think we're ranked, I think,15th in football preseason, but
I think we're going to win itall.
Right now, of course, we haveto.
Tom Goldsby (33:01):
Well, hey again, elijah.
Thank you so much, ted.
Let's bring this one to a close.
Folks know by now.
I hope that they can reach usanytime at gsciutkedu and we
look forward to seeing you inthat third season.
Introduction (33:16):
Thanks for tuning in to Tennessee on Supply Chain
Management.
If you enjoyed the episode,subscribe today on your favorite
listening platform to get allof our episodes as soon as they
drop, and don't forget to take amoment to leave us a rating.
Have any questions, thoughts orfeedback?
We'd love to hear from ourlisteners.
Email us at gsci at utkedu.
Join us next time as wecontinue pulling back the
(33:40):
curtain on the world of supplychain, educating and
entertaining you along the way.
Until then, listeners.
Welcome to the Tennessee on Supply Chain
Management podcast.
Listen in as co-hosts Ted Stankand Tom Goldsby set sail into
the world of end-to-end supplychain management, diving deep
into today's most relevantbusiness topics.
They'll share insights inpressing industry issues and
tackle the challenges keepingsupply chain professionals up at
night.
If you're enjoying the ride,download and subscribe to
(00:22):
Tennessee on Supply ChainManagement on your favorite
podcast platform now.
Ted Stank (00:28):
Hello everybody and welcome to Tennessee on Supply
Chain Management podcast.
We were just informed by ourproducer, brian Kniever, that
this is season two, episode 12,the last episode of season two.
Tom, have you heard anythingabout whether we're going to get
produced again for next year?
Tom Goldsby (00:43):
I think we might get picked up, but a lot rests
on today's show, so it hadbetter be good.
Ted Stank (00:50):
No pressure, huh.
Well, my name's Ted Stank, oneof your co-hosts, and that was
Tom Goldsby, our other co-host.
Hey, Tom, how are you doing?
Tom Goldsby (00:57):
Doing great Ted.
Ted Stank (01:05):
We actually happen to be recording for you during a
session of our Global SupplyChain Institute Executive
Advisory Board meeting, and soour guest today, elijah Ray, who
we'll introduce in a littlewhile, is joining us from that
ad board meeting.
We just had a wonderful meal.
Was that chicken or pork?
It was chicken.
Tom Goldsby (01:15):
There was chicken and beef.
Ted Stank (01:17):
Chicken and beef.
Like always, we're going tostart off with some news from
the broader economic andgeopolitical world and then talk
about some things that aregoing on in supply chain, and
then we're going to bring Elijahon to talk about what's
happening in his world ofthird-party logistics and some
of the stressors challenges thathe sees coming up.
Tom, what do you got to lead usoff?
Tom Goldsby (01:37):
Well, I think we've got to lead with the
presidential election right herein the United States of America
.
Big, big overtures, big changessince our last podcast and you
know we usually don't delve intothe political, but we did a
little bit in that last podcast.
But there's just no way toavoid this news.
It's so substantial, with JoeBiden stepping out and handing
(02:01):
over the reins of the Democraticnomination to Kamala Harris and
, of course, former PresidentTrump taking a shot.
Ted Stank (02:10):
Man, those two weekends in July were just
unbelievable, incredible.
Tom Goldsby (02:13):
Well, they say sometimes what a decade happens
in a month, and other times amonth happens in a decade.
Ted Stank (02:20):
Yeah so and all the momentum was to former President
Trump for a week and then allof a sudden the news about Biden
backing out and just completelychanged the dynamics of the
race and obviously for those ofus in supply chain management
there's a lot hanging on.
Who wins that election?
You know, if the Trumpadministration comes in promises
of 100 percent, potentially 200percent tariffs on product
(02:43):
coming from China or fromChinese companies located in
Mexico, you know a lot of bigsupply chain issues going on,
that what happens withgeopolitical relationships and
where suppliers are located andglobal network designs, lots of
different things thateverybody's kind of just sitting
around waiting on to see whathappens.
Tom Goldsby (03:01):
Well, we heard a presentation just this morning
from one of our own forummembers talking about how the EV
market could dramaticallychange overnight, depending upon
which way that election goesright, and so entire businesses
are kind of on hold.
Supply chains may be on hold.
Ted Stank (03:18):
Yeah, so we're going to be coming to you with
podcasts over the next threemonths as we head into November.
It's going to be interestingtimes, right?
Elijah, an old friend of ours,tom Mentzer, rest in peace.
One of his favorite sayings wasmay you live in interesting
times.
Wow, and it was a curse, not ablessing.
Tom Goldsby (03:37):
There we are.
There we are Interesting times,no doubt.
Speaking of interesting times,you know talk about the
presidential election.
I'm sure we will in more depthin future podcasts.
But the stock market has beentaking such a wild ride as well,
which is just kind of anexposition of the uncertainty,
different levels of chaos.
It seems like the big hit tomarket about two weeks now has
(04:00):
kind of leveled out.
But we're now getting theearnings reports too, which is
pretty interesting, A real mixedbag of earnings reports, a
mixed bag of earnings reports.
Ted Stank (04:07):
So can I be controversial?
Tom Goldsby (04:10):
You've let me do this before.
Ted Stank (04:11):
Yeah, let's do it.
You know our friends in financeand I'm not talking about
corporate financial people, I'mtalking about Wall Street
investment financial people.
I've been sitting hereentertained over the last
several months as Wall Streethad this euphoria about.
We're going to invest in techcompanies because of the AI boom
and it's just going to keepgoing like this forever and it's
(04:34):
going to bring the stock marketto unrealized levels.
And then one report that comesin from like an NVIDIA that is
not up to what theirexpectations were.
The world is failing.
Ai is not going to be what itwas supposed to be.
We got to back out of this.
It's like come on, guys, youknow.
It's like anybody who knowsbusiness could sit back and say
(04:56):
we know all this is going on,it's all fake.
What are you doing?
You know?
And yet here we are.
And I just I mean, if so muchmoney wasn't at play, it would
be really humorous.
Tom Goldsby (05:07):
But you're right, You're right and just failed.
Swoops swinging and swaying inall directions as if they've
always got it figured out andreally, really they don't.
You know, you and I Elijah, I'mgoing to bring you into this
too I mean, we're prettyfundamental when it comes to
business.
Right, you make something, yousell something, you know all
this hocus, pocus stuff.
Ted Stank (05:28):
Sure, Just don't get too excited, so we're Warren
Buffett's when it comes tofinance.
Tom Goldsby (05:32):
That's right, I got to understand the business
model.
Introduction (05:35):
That's a model I can buy into, you know what we
keep talking about Elijah Tom.
Ted Stank (05:37):
You want to introduce Elijah.
He's sitting here with us.
Yeah, no, we really should.
Tom Goldsby (05:40):
Why don't you bring him in?
So a very good friend to Tedand me also to our program here
at the University of Tennessee,mr Elijah Ray, chief Customer
Officer at Sunland LogisticsSolutions, based in Greenville,
south Carolina, he's a member ofour advisory board, also past
board chair of CSCMP, anotherorganization that means a great
deal to us and primarily throughCSCMP, ted and I have known you
(06:03):
for decades.
Elijah Ray (06:04):
Yeah, absolutely Look.
First of all, let me just thankyou all for having us.
It's great to be here with you.
You guys are good friends frommany, many years ago, so we're
very grateful to share thisplatform with you.
Tom Goldsby (06:17):
Well, we appreciate it.
Elijah Ray (06:18):
It's great to have you with us.
Tom Goldsby (06:18):
We figured that while you were on campus today,
we'd pull you into the podcast.
Introduction (06:22):
Really appreciate that you did.
Tom Goldsby (06:29):
Maybe to provide a little more perspective for
folks who may not be familiarwith Sunland.
Elijah Ray (06:31):
Can you tell us a little bit about Sunland?
So Sunland Logistics is a SouthCarolina-based organization,
greenville, south Carolina.
The company has been around forabout 40 years with an emphasis
primarily in contract logisticsor warehousing and value-added
services.
I mentioned that we've beenaround for 40 years, but over
the last 10 years we'veexperienced just significant
(06:53):
growth and we are a growthorganization.
We serve five verticals acrossthe country, primarily in the
eastern part of the country, butwe're growing US wide.
We have a global leadershipteam.
If you look at our leadershipteam, we have senior leaders
from throughout the 3PL spectrumand so we're excited about
(07:15):
where we are as a 3PL and as agrowing 3PL in the country.
Ted Stank (07:21):
Elijah, great to have you with us again, really
looking forward to getting yourperspectives on what are some of
the bright spots, some of thechallenges, both for Sunland and
for the industry in general, aswe move forward.
Elijah Ray (07:32):
I am responsible for elite growth and customer
relationships with Sunland, andso one of the things that we're
seeing is we've seen a softnessin the marketplace over the last
several months, and so there'ssoftness in our business and the
number of opportunities that weget, and then there's some
softness in the business of ourcustomers as well, and you know
(07:54):
what that means.
We're already under a costmicroscope, if you will.
It's with greater intensity intimes like these, so one of the
things that we're seeing withour customers is the microscope
on cost and cost management, aswe typically see in times like
these.
Ted Stank (08:12):
So that really plays into some of the things that Tom
and I are tracking in thebroader economy right, the Fed
is talking about less focus oninflation.
Inflation numbers seem to bekind of coming back to pre-COVID
levels that the Fed wants tosee.
The July CPI came in belowthree, which you know.
That's kind of the good news.
(08:32):
The bad news is unemploymentinching up Some of the earnings,
even from we were making frontof Wall Street, but even from
some of the main streetbusinesses like Home Depot, some
softness in the earnings report.
So you're certainly seeing that,exactly, exactly, yeah, I guess
.
Unemployment up to 4.3% Right,not huge from historical
standards, but the direction hasbeen up the last couple of
(08:55):
months.
Tom Goldsby (08:55):
Right.
Ted Stank (08:55):
I think the other thing you know that economists
track is credit card debtAmericans' credit card debt's
way up and more people missingcredit card payments every month
.
So again, this affects us atMain Street.
Elijah Ray (09:07):
right, it does Exactly.
Tom Goldsby (09:09):
Exactly Now, elijah , something I'd just like to ask
you.
As you were just describing,the logistics service industry
is a derived industry.
Right, you have clients andyou're going to ride the waves
with the highs and the lows withthem Exactly.
And you use the term softening.
Can I use just anotherexpression of just kind of
catching?
Introduction (09:27):
your breath.
Do you think?
Tom Goldsby (09:27):
maybe there's an opportunity to kind of catch
your breath here a little bit,because we talk about labor
issues.
That's been such a struggle forservice providers.
Is there some sense that maybethings are starting to stabilize
and that could be a positive.
Elijah Ray (09:40):
Yeah, look, I think that to some extent it does help
.
We see the labor situationeasing a little bit, but you
know, we started talking aboutthis labor thing 10, 15 years
ago and I think it's just thereality of the market, the 3PL
market, and not just thegrassroots labor or the labor in
the warehousing floor, but eventhe talent base in general,
(10:02):
even the professional talentbase.
But at the grassroots level Ithink it's getting a little bit
better, but there's still achallenge getting great people,
and so that's something I thinkwe'll have to deal with on an
ongoing basis in our profession.
We don't have the sexiest jobs,if you will, with forklift
(10:22):
operators, you know, in awarehousing-based organization.
That's the challenge for uswhen it comes to, you know,
hiring great people and qualitypeople to accomplish what our
customers want us to accomplish.
Tom Goldsby (10:34):
Well, it's something I go back to and Dave
Clark in our last episode kindof challenged the US labor
numbers that we were using.
But I think we can observe thatthe number of warehouse workers
presently employed in AmericanWarehouse more than double where
it was, like a decade ago,right.
And it's just incredible tothink about how we've been
trying to soak up that talent.
(10:55):
As you point out, warehousingis not usually the first stop
for folks if they're thinkingabout where they want to employ
themselves, put their time right.
So that just kind of providessome context to the challenge
you all have had.
Like you said, it's not just inthe last few years, it's going
back 10, 15 years.
Elijah Ray (11:08):
Yeah, it really is.
And I think what we have to dowhen we're talking to people who
we want to hire in warehousing,that it's not necessarily the
end of the road.
If you have aspirations, youcan go further than just a
forklift operator and you canbecome a lead person or you can
become a supervisor, you canbecome a manager, because there
are growth opportunities and asour profession becomes more
(11:30):
prominent and we know there'smore recognition on our
profession and on our discipline, especially since COVID we
thought even before COVID westarted to see the evolution and
the elevation of our profession.
Tom Goldsby (11:41):
Well, we've always thought it was cool.
We always thought it was cool,we've always thought it was
really cool.
Elijah Ray (11:46):
Yes, exactly, you know, when you wake up one
morning and you see Tom Goldsbyon TV talking about logistics
and supply chain, you know andyou can see that our industry
has evolved and obviously, aswe've looked at what has
happened with COVID and theprominence of our profession, it
continues to gain traction atthe CEO level.
(12:07):
So, look, probably don't needto say that, but the reality is
that is what drives us now isthat we're going to see more and
more prominence to ourprofession, which not
necessarily makes it easier, butI think it makes it easier to
sell, if you will.
Ted Stank (12:20):
Let's pivot to some other things that are happening
out there, Elijah, and get yourtake on how it will influence
your part of the supply chain,Kind of related to labor, right.
There are some major laborissues going on with some of our
big transportation arms in thesupply chain.
Canadian railroads very likelyto go on strike this week.
They've actually stopped takingshipments of hazardous
(12:44):
materials because they can'tleave those unattended on the
tracks if the workforce walksout.
So that started on Monday ofthis week, Today's Thursday, so
that is an imminent labor issueabout to happen.
Obviously we get a lot ofproduct from those Canadian
railroads.
And then the other one is theimpending labor negotiations for
Gulf and East Coast ports.
(13:05):
Things are not looking as rosythere as they had been in the
not too distant past in terms ofhow those negotiations were
going.
The union's asking for up to an80% increase in wages and the
port operator's making an offerthat they thought was fair and
the union's saying no, it's noteven close.
So your take on how that mightimpact us in the near future
(13:26):
from a supply chain disruptionstandpoint and maybe longer term
, from a labor and labornegotiation standpoint.
Elijah Ray (13:32):
Yeah, ted, that's an interesting question.
Yeah, ted, that's aninteresting question.
I think that, as we think aboutlabor in general and how these
(14:01):
situations like that will end up, I think we have to think about
how we elevate the roles ofthose positions and be sensitive
to what they do and how theyserve our companies and serve
the supply chain in general.
Of course, it's hard topinpoint exactly what the
outcome will be.
Ted Stank (14:15):
As part of our advanced supply chain
collaborative, we've been doingsome research on what does it
take to retain this youngerworkforce?
What are the things they'relooking for?
And we look predominantly inmanufacturing in the past,
although I think we're going tolook more in the distribution
warehousing element as well inthe future but a lot of it was
not wage related.
It was other things thatthey're looking for in an
(14:36):
employment situation to keepthem on the job.
Elijah Ray (14:39):
Right, yeah, exactly , and look the both of you.
We know a person who's done alot of work in this space.
This guy named RobertMartichenko, and I think to this
issue whatever labor type ofissues we have with large
organizations and unions a lotof it gets back to some of these
basic things like dignity andrespect and trust, and this is
(15:03):
what you know, some of the workthat Robert Martichenko has done
.
And so in our organization wespend a lot of time on this.
Care for the individual Cultureis big for us, really, really
big for us, and so that's partof how we try to win the
recruiting and retention game bymaking the workplace just
(15:24):
really pure and building atrusting environment between our
leadership and the people whowork on the floor, who work with
us.
So creating that environment,that type of environment, is
essential for us and a priorityfor us.
And I say that because and Ibring up Robert's name because
(15:44):
he has recognized that as asignificant issue and especially
, but not just in our disciplinebut disciplines period, but in
in our profession, given thenature of it, whether it's rail,
whether it's warehousing,whether it's port, they're the
same issues of dignity, respect,understanding and empathizing
(16:10):
with individuals and that trust.
Ted Stank (16:12):
I'm not as familiar with the warehouse environment
and the workers' requirements,but I have done some work with
driver retention.
And you hear things like theypull up to a dock at a
manufacturing location andthey're not allowed to come
inside and use the restroom, orthey have to keep their truck
running and using fuel becausethey're sitting out in the
parking lot in 100-degreeweather waiting for a dock door
(16:34):
to open up for hours.
I know how I feel sitting onthe tarmac in an aircraft.
Tom Goldsby (16:46):
So I've attacked Wall Street now.
But, Elijah, you're absolutelyright.
I mean, there's some universalthemes here, regardless of where
we're talking, you know,transportation, warehousing,
logistics or healthcare.
Yeah, that's another big one,and just recognizing again this
notion of meaningful engagement,which is what.
Robert has really helped toshine a light, and that's just a
(17:06):
little teaser for a futurepodcast because we are going to
be featuring Robert and your CEO, Arch Thomason, in a future
podcast.
Ted Stank (17:14):
If we've been picked up for a third season, we can do
a little self-serving, I guess,if we're so fortunate to get
that third season.
Tom Goldsby (17:20):
this is going to be a few episodes in, but we've
got them lined up for the forum.
Ted Stank (17:23):
Are we getting that, Brian?
Are you Two thumbs up, not justone?
Tom Goldsby (17:26):
That's really encouraging.
Hey, you also dropped somereference to trust there and
absolutely that's essentialemployer, employee.
But also I'm thinking about howthat trust transcends to your
client engagements and in thesetumultuous times, how critical
is it that, hey, we've had yourback in good times and bad,
(17:50):
regardless of what the futuremight have in store.
Those clients are looking toyour organization to absorb a
lot of this chaos, right,Absolutely, and it takes immense
amounts of trust.
Can you talk a little bit abouthow that culture that you have
within the organization atSunland kind of transcends and
reaches to your client base?
Elijah Ray (18:09):
Yeah, so great, great point.
So, look, we like to think ofourselves as an extension of our
customers, and how we do thatis through our people, right?
Whether it's the senior level,whether it's the grassroots
level, we inspire the confidenceof our customers and the trust
(18:29):
of our customers through ourpeople, regardless of the level.
And so if we don't have trustat the grassroots level and if
we don't have that collaborationinternal, our customers won't
feel that either.
So that's really a priority ofour business is to bring people
in, have that internalcollaboration and that internal
(18:51):
culture which reaches ourcustomers, and it's not just
something we just talk about.
We have systems in place thathave regular cadences, if you
will, with our customers atvarious levels, so that they
feel that connection with us andthat we are serving them.
You know, in the uncertaintimes as well, that we have
(19:15):
systems in place to communicateand to talk to each other, so
that we might not be alwaysahead of them, but we can
respond and react accordingly tosome of the issues that occur
in the supply chain.
Ted Stank (19:29):
I heard from several shippers if you will right,
manufacturers, retailers duringthe pandemic pandemic that if
they had great relationshipswith their service providers,
they were far better able todeal with the uncertainty that
we were encountering on analmost daily basis during that
time period.
Have you seen that trust levelwith some of your client base
(19:51):
that was established because youbailed them out during the
pandemic?
Have you seen that continue orhave we gone back to business as
usual?
Elijah Ray (19:58):
No, I actually think and look, it really does depend
a lot on the cultures withinthose companies, but for the
most part, whenever you bailsomeone out of a bad situation,
we see that trust accelerate.
We do, and look, we've been insituations where we've been very
new with a customer and we sawthe mutual cultures or the
(20:22):
common cultures in difficultsituations where we got in there
toe to toe, didn't necessarilyagree to everything, as we were
in the battle or in the war, ifyou will, in the battle or in
the war, if you will.
But because we got to adifferent level, we solved
problems together, that trustaccelerated, that the
relationship is now tighter, andso that's the power of these
(20:45):
relationships, that's the powerof culture and looking for the
foundational points for cultureas you enter relationships as
well.
And so we're very intentionalabout that also and about the
systems and building therelationships based on the
things that our customers and wewant to accomplish as an
(21:06):
organization.
Tom Goldsby (21:07):
Yeah, but I suspect that's why you've achieved that
growth.
Again a Greenville, southCarolina-based company.
I look at your footprint veryhigh concentration in the
Southeast.
Elijah Ray (21:16):
Right.
Tom Goldsby (21:16):
And then, lo and behold, you got facilities in
the Midwest and the West rightIs that where those clients are
like hey, we love what you'redoing in this footprint.
Elijah Ray (21:24):
Come with us, you're right on because that's where
the growth has occurred is thatwe take on a piece of business
for a company and they say, well, look, can you go do this
elsewhere?
And that's how we've grown andthat's, I suspect, how we will
continue to grow from time totime, taking new logos and what
have you.
So it's a lot of fun doing thatright, building the trust,
(21:46):
gaining the trust and continuingto grow.
Tom Goldsby (21:48):
I love that trust accelerator.
Yeah, yeah, it is Is today'spodcast, kind of a trust
accelerator, with us here.
I hope so.
Ted Stank (21:58):
I hope so, guys, it's always entertaining to me to
think that we spend so much ofour time educating our
undergraduates and our graduatestudents about all the concepts
and processes involved in supplychain management and we always
give kind of short shrift to ohyeah, you're going to go out and
ultimately it's a people joband you have to manage people
(22:19):
Right, but we're not going totalk about that.
You're going to learn that.
We talk about relationshipsbetween organizations, but we
don't spend a huge amount oftime on it.
And yet, when you cut rightdown to it, here we are into
this podcast and most of whatwe've talked about is people and
relationships.
Elijah Ray (22:36):
Yeah, exactly when we open up conversations with
customers, we talk about peopleearly on, and not just, again,
the people at the senior levels,but the grassroots level,
because that's the whole natureof our business.
We have a people business andagain we're a housing base where
people, they operate forkliftsand automation and all these
(23:01):
things and so as our old friendLloyd Reinhart would have said,
the blocking and tackling.
Exactly so.
We have to inspire people toachieve what both companies need
to achieve, so that trust is soessential and that
understanding is so essential.
Ted Stank (23:17):
Great example.
Thomas Deakins, our executivedirector of our forum, was
telling me the other day that hewas flying back with his wife
from DC and the flight wasdelayed.
And so they told him you know,go get food or whatever, and you
know we'll make an announcement.
They weren't expecting it.
He was having lunch at arestaurant in the airport and
(23:39):
gets a phone call.
I'm going to say the name of theairline, because it's a good
thing it's American Airlines.
It was a phone call from thegate agent saying Mr Deakins,
are you going to make thisflight?
And he goes yeah, I didn'tthink it was boarding for a
while.
She goes no, we're boarding,we've boarded and we're waiting
for you.
Can you get here?
And he got on the flight and heand his wife got home and you
know.
But if that gate agent hadn'thad the care to say, hey, I want
(23:59):
to make sure this persondoesn't get left stranded, I'm
going to call them, I meanthat's to me, that's way above
and beyond the call of duty andthat's up to a person.
It's up to a person.
It really is, because that gateagent could have said you know
what?
Not my job.
He's not here.
Elijah Ray (24:14):
Too bad, exactly, exactly yeah.
Tom Goldsby (24:16):
You know I've always said, no matter how
important I feel I am, theairlines don't really care that
plane is going to take off.
But but Tom's Deakins,apparently, is important enough
to hold up.
Now I will point out that thatwas not heading into a hub
airport, that was a directflight back to Knoxville.
But and he did have status, avery high status with the
airline.
(24:36):
That he said has elapsed since,but it just makes it that much
more.
Ted Stank (24:40):
But still, I mean it just to me points out the
importance of your people, right, right.
That's somebody who is verydedicated to her organization,
to her job.
I say her I think Thomas toldit Some people wouldn't have
done it if they didn't have thatcommitment and that culture,
exactly wouldn't have done ifthey didn't have that commitment
and that culture.
Tom Goldsby (24:58):
Exactly so it sounds like.
Again, we invoked Lloyd.
Ted Stank (24:59):
Reinhart, which is fantastic.
For those who don't know, Lloydis a colleague of ours who
retired a few years ago, but hewas a champion of the nitty
gritty of logistics.
Tom Goldsby (25:08):
And it seems like, as we talk about, despite
whiz-bang technologies, it'sstill a people oriented business
in which we find ourselves, youknow.
That said, let's kind of lookout into the future a little bit
.
I mean, how do you think thelogistics service industry will
change?
I mean, I think that thosefundamentals that you've laid
out are going to continue to bejust as relevant into the
(25:28):
indefinite future, but how doyou think our world is going to
change and how are serviceproviders going to have to adapt
?
Elijah Ray (25:35):
world is going to change and how our service
provider is going to have toadapt.
Yeah, look, great question, tom.
I think we'll continue to see agreater need for automation and
people will still be involved.
So it's about coaching andteaching people how to deal with
automation.
That's one of the things thatwe'll deal with.
I think that we'll continue tosee complexities in logistics
(25:58):
and supply chain and, again,thinking back on warehousing and
how warehousing has changed,we'll see, because that's where
you have the greatest amount ofpeople you know in supply chain
and from a logistics perspective.
So I think we'll seecomplexities.
I think that you will continueto see the need for partners to
(26:31):
become closely and tightlyintegrated and for organizations
to creating the dignity and thetrust.
All of those things have to bepresent or we're not going to be
as successful.
So I think I just pointed outautomation, I just pointed out
complexities, I just pointed outthe need to really embrace the
(26:51):
people component, because it'sthe people component that really
is going to make the difference.
You have to have leadership inplace that understands how to
inspire people to accomplish theend game.
So, and I think, obviously,cost will always be at the top
and, from a 3PL perspective.
Again, the lens of a 3PL ourmargins are always very, very
(27:14):
tight.
Taking on relationships wherecustomers respect the margins of
a 3PL and understand that thereis a value equation and there
is a way to get the value, thereverse flow in terms of why you
might want to engage with aprospective client as well.
Tom Goldsby (27:32):
So we want to work with good cultures, we want to
get a reasonable return.
Elijah Ray (27:58):
Plus, we want to work with someone who has a need
that we can serve and they'regoing to value the service we
provide and they're going tovalue us as an organization.
Tom Goldsby (28:09):
I've always said that value is a two-way street.
Elijah Ray (28:11):
Yeah, it is.
Tom Goldsby (28:12):
And certainly customers are demanding, they
expect to be satisfied, theywant good ROI.
But so few companies reallyunderstand If we talk about
financial value, growth value ofwhat a client brings to the
table.
In fact, years ago we did asurvey of companies, found that
only 16% of companies understoodthe financial return that they
(28:33):
generated in working with aclient.
Now, in the logistics servicesector, it was a bit higher.
Introduction (28:39):
Because you all make a bad deal, you feel it,
you feel it You've got to run alife of that agreement, right,
exactly.
Tom Goldsby (28:45):
Oh, that was hot we're not going to do that, I'm
not going to put my hand on thatstove Right and you all learn,
and that's what we found is thatproject-based companies tend to
be pretty good at itManufacturers, wholesalers,
distributors, a lot of them, no,just didn't register, and
that's where, again, do you findthat when you're seeking out
those clients, is it morecomfortable to kind of stick
(29:06):
within a vertical, maybe try togrow your footprint within an
industry, a segment of themarket, or do you find a lot of
growth and opportunity outsidethat segment?
I mean, what's most appealing,and maybe it depends upon the
capital position which you findyourself.
Elijah Ray (29:22):
Yeah, again, great question.
I think the verticals that weserve we try to be focused on
those.
However, when we see cultureand an opportunity to bring
value outside of the verticalsthat we serve and we see that
mutual trust as we are engaging,we like those and we will
(29:43):
pursue.
We're very careful about who weconnect with, who we engage
with.
But where we see similarcultures and if that company and
what they do fall outside ofthe verticals that we are really
good in, we will engage andwe've seen that happen and we
have great success with that.
(30:04):
When it happens, key is culture.
Ted Stank (30:07):
Yeah.
So another way of reallyaccelerating that trust is
finding those culture matches.
Elijah Ray (30:12):
Yeah exactly and really they sound warm and fuzzy
, but the culture piece is real.
It really is.
Ted Stank (30:19):
I had a doctoral student when I first got here to
Tennessee who was really ontothe topic of culture.
He was a pretty senior guy,he'd been in the industry for a
long time.
I come from an operationsbackground and I realize now I
was being naive and notrecognizing it because I think
I'd always understood theculture, part of it and, and you
know, even on an interpersonalbasis.
But I used to poo poo him about.
(30:41):
You know, let's move on tosomething more meaty.
This culture stuff is just, youknow, and the older I get, the
more I.
I mean it's the old PeterDrucker saying, right Then,
culture eats strategy.
Um boy, I just have become asuch a bigger believer.
And again, I guess, again wehave a third season that's been
picked up so we can beself-serving again.
(31:01):
But as I look around, like atour executive advisory board
meeting and at the team thatwe've built here at at Tennessee
, we have a very distinctculture and companies that are
attracted to us share thatculture, right.
So, like when you walked inlast night at dinner, I hugged
you and I hugged a lot of peoplecoming in because you guys are
good friends of mine.
You know, and it's not just atransactional thing, that's just
(31:23):
the power of culture, man.
Elijah Ray (31:25):
That's why I'm sitting in this room right now,
that's why I take the time outof my schedule to be come learn,
come contribute, becausethere's a culture here that is
very, very powerful.
Ted Stank (31:41):
I'm always humbled by the fact that really powerful,
busy people like you take thetime to come to Knoxville,
Tennessee, which is not an easyplace to get to.
Elijah Ray (31:44):
And there will be more of us coming later this
year as well, because of theculture that you guys have here
For our forum.
That's right.
Yeah, the forum, that's right.
We're so looking forward tothat.
Tom Goldsby (31:53):
Well, hey, ted, we've covered a lot of ground
with Elijah and we've got to getback.
We've got a whole afternoonsession that we need to run
through with our orbit.
Elijah, thank you so much forparticipating in the podcast,
but also, more importantly, forwatching into our program and
being so receptive andencouraging to what we do.
Ted Stank (32:12):
Thanks for the invitation.
I love our theme.
You know that the theme herehas been it's all about people,
people.
It's all about relationships.
It's all about how you dealwith people in these
relationships.
Tom Goldsby (32:21):
Hey, speaking of people and relationships, are
you ready to receive a new batchof Vol students that are
arriving on campus next week?
Ted Stank (32:27):
Absolutely, thomas and I are getting ready to teach
.
You have a class of 700.
I think I have a class of 700.
A lot of new Vol supply chainfolks.
Tom Goldsby (32:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
The new season is upon us, notjust podcast season number three
, but also a new academic seasonhere, and we're expecting big
things in the classroom as wellas on those sports shows.
Ted Stank (32:48):
A lot of you know this is early in the season.
They always say, like inbaseball, hope springs eternally
.
I think we're ranked, I think,15th in football preseason, but
I think we're going to win itall.
Right now, of course, we haveto.
Tom Goldsby (33:01):
Well, hey again, elijah.
Thank you so much, ted.
Let's bring this one to a close.
Folks know by now.
I hope that they can reach usanytime at gsciutkedu and we
look forward to seeing you inthat third season.
Introduction (33:16):
Thanks for tuning in to Tennessee on Supply Chain
Management.
If you enjoyed the episode,subscribe today on your favorite
listening platform to get allof our episodes as soon as they
drop, and don't forget to take amoment to leave us a rating.
Have any questions, thoughts orfeedback?
We'd love to hear from ourlisteners.
Email us at gsci at utkedu.
Join us next time as wecontinue pulling back the
(33:40):
curtain on the world of supplychain, educating and
entertaining you along the way.
Until then, listeners.
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