May 22, 2024 • 36 mins
For our May episode, co-hosts Ted Stank and Tom Goldsby speak with Martha Buffington, chief procurement officer for SC Johnson, about all aspects of effective business leadership.
They touch on company culture in global organizations, advancing your career and finding success during times of transition, the importance of empowerment over delegation to drive team achievement, balancing double standards for female leaders, and more.
A member of the GSCI Advisory Board, Buffington spent more than two decades with Coca-Cola, rising to the position of chief procurement officer for its Bottling Investments Group before transitioning into senior procurement positions with DSM in the Netherlands. She joined SC Johnson, a Supply Chain Forum member, in 2022.
Listen in as our hosts discuss current consumer sentiment, import numbers and new tariffs, the latest in rail transportation in North America, the Port of Baltimore’s removal of the cargo ship Dali, and much more.
The episode was recorded virtually on May 13, 2024.
Related links:
- US consumer sentiment at six-month low, inflation expectations rise
- Cargo ship Dali that struck Port of Baltimore being removed
- Canada seeks ruling on mandatory shipments during potential rail strike
- US plans to impose major tariffs on EVs, other Chinese green energy imports
- Container import volumes rise in rebound after China's Lunar New Year
- How women manage the gendered forms of leadership
- Become a Supply Chain Forum member
- Subscribe to GSCI’s monthly newsletter
- Read the latest news and insights from GSCI
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Introduction (00:00):
Welcome to the Tennessee on Supply Chain
Management podcast.
Listen in as co-hosts Ted Stankand Tom Goldsby set sail into
the world of end-to-end supplychain management, diving deep
into today's most relevantbusiness topics.
They'll share insights inpressing industry issues and
tackle the challenges keepingsupply chain professionals up at
night.
If you're enjoying the ride,download and subscribe to
(00:22):
Tennessee on Supply ChainManagement on your favorite
podcast platform now.
Ted Stank (00:27):
Hello everyone and welcome to the ninth episode of
the second season of Tennesseeon Supply Chain Management.
I'm here with my good friend,Tom Goldsby, who's just returned
from a trip to Europe.
He doesn't look very jet lagged, but we'll see if that's the
way he feels he might have hadseveral cups of coffee already
this morning.
We're also joined by our goodfriend, Martha Buffington at SC
(00:48):
Johnson, and we're going tobring Martha in later.
We're going to talk about someleadership issues from her
perspective.
Tom, what are you thinkingabout these days?
What's going on?
Tom Goldsby (00:56):
You're absolutely right.
I did just get back a couple ofdays ago from a week in Italy.
It's a marvelous trip, a reallygreat time to be there, a
little bit ahead of the touristcrowd, spent some time in Venice
and did some teaching in Veronaand Vicenza the three Vs of
Northeast Italy and really had agreat time with Yvonne Russo,
(01:17):
our good friend at theUniversity of Verona.
He hosted me and I ate well, Idrank well, I got to engage with
a lot of really bright,brilliant students and faculty
over there in Verona, and hey,live to tell about it.
But it's good to be back home.
Ted Stank (01:32):
Yeah, you know that University of Verona
relationship with University ofTennessee goes back some at
least 15 years, maybe longer,and Yvonne was a doctoral
student who had come over andjoined us for a short period of
time back when I had firstgotten here to University of
Tennessee, so it's maybe morelike 20 years.
Tom Goldsby (01:50):
Yeah, he had a lot of memories and also a lot of
old pictures from the timetogether.
So it was fun to see his visualmemories and to hear him talk
about his life and times.
He speaks very fondly of histime at Rocky Top.
To hear him talk about his lifeand times.
He speaks very fondly of histime at Rocky Top and of course,
we were able to host hisdoctoral student, Benedetta,
here at Rocky Top this spring.
(02:10):
So it is, as you point out, arelationship's been going on for
a long time and we expect it tocontinue into the future.
But hey, let's get back to thegood old US ofA and what's going
on around the neighborhood.
I think we're kind of a littlebit in between some of the
economic indicators that weusually speak of.
I think later this week we'llsee PPI and CPI and some of
(02:31):
those things.
I did see a consumer sentimentindex, but I don't put a lot of
faith in what people say abouttheir sentiments.
I look at what they do.
But I will say that theconsumer sentiment index was
down, I think, to one of thelowest levels and I think it's
in large part because inflationjust continues to kind of loom
(02:52):
and has people a little bitgloomy, but they're still buying
.
Ted Stank (02:56):
You're right.
We are in the middle of a lotof things.
There are some indications.
I mean everything that I'vebeen reading.
I always try to make sureeverybody knows I am not an
economist.
Tom is an undergraduateeconomics major, but I am not.
I've had one course, I thinkexactly in economics, and that
was probably in 1979 orsomething.
Tom Goldsby (03:13):
Did you pass?
Ted Stank (03:14):
that class, ted, I did.
I think I got a pretty goodgrade in it, but notwithstanding
.
But I've been reading a lottrying to make sure that I stay
up on it and everything seems toshow right now that the economy
is cooling off, that we aregoing to have that proverbial
soft landing.
I think that that's whateveryone's hoping for.
Most of the recent data thatcame out in early May jobs
(03:38):
report was lower thanexpectations.
The number of unemployment hasstayed about stable.
Gdp in the first quarter wasrelatively low 1.6% so maybe
that's showing a little bit ofcooling as well.
But, as you said, everybody'swaiting for this new Consumer
Price Index report, which is dueout Today is Monday for those
(03:58):
of you listening May 13th.
The jobs inflation report isdue out this Wednesday and
certainly all the markets arejust hovering waiting for that
news.
Tom Goldsby (04:07):
You know, I was away for a week and the Dow just
soared the entire week I wasaway, which just makes me think
maybe I need to plan anothertrip somewhere.
I didn't get a single note frommy wife saying the market's
tanking, the market's tanking.
I came back and, lo and behold,we're approaching that.
You know 40,000.
(04:27):
So it's a big deal.
But you're right, you knowwe're just kind of waiting pins
and needles a little bit.
You know still a lot ofuncertainty out there.
But you know, something that wedon't reference very often is
the global supply chain pressureindex, and I know there's a lot
of scrutiny of that.
Perhaps it's justified, but theNew York Fed has been putting
(04:47):
this out for a few years andit's been sub-zero for a little
while now and it continues to gothat way, which means that
things are fairly stable on ahistorical basis, based upon
manufacturing and transportationindices that it references not
only domestically but around theworld.
And you know it does seem likemaybe you know, we still haven't
(05:09):
cleared the wreckage of thedolly from Baltimore.
Ted Stank (05:12):
That's supposed to happen today, by the way.
Okay, it got delayed fromyesterday due to weather.
It's supposed to get clearedfrom the deck of the dolly today
and then they expect to refloatthe dolly, if everything goes
well on, I think, tomorrow orthe following day.
It's aground right now and theywant to keep it aground until
they can assess damage.
Tom Goldsby (05:33):
Okay, but something that I did get asked about,
probably about 10 days ago, werethe two Canadian railroads
striking the CN and the CP.
And I'll have to admit I'vebeen away and haven't checked to
see what's going on, but myresponse to the reporter was
that supply chain managers arejust kind of like, yeah, what's
(05:53):
next?
And I think that we've becomebattle tested over these last
four or five years to chaos anduncertainty and hey, we're just
figuring out how to navigate.
Oh, so you're saying that youknow the one transcontinental
railroad that we have is goingto shut down, perhaps?
All right, well, I guess webetter look into trucking a lot
more stuff, or what have you.
Ted Stank (06:14):
May 22nd is the date, tom, although the Canadian
Federal Labor Relations Board islooking into it, so that may
delay things as well.
I'd be very interested as webring our guest in to get her
take on whether that's a ho-humscenario or not.
But yeah, you know, I thinkthat I mean everybody's looking
at the Middle East and thesituation in the Red Sea Suez
(06:37):
Canal seems to be much betteroff from an available water
scenario than we had originallyanticipated.
So hopefully that crunch hasabated somewhat.
There are some signs thetransportation recession is
easing, that freight is comingback and transportation pricing
and available capacity startingto stabilize as well.
(06:57):
I looked at the purchasingmanagers index for both
manufacturing and services.
They are just slightly under 50, which means that's a slight
contraction.
That means that purchasingmanagers know there's some
(07:25):
additional easing I guessslowing in the logistics
marketplace as well.
So you know I always love thispodcast because I can say
ridiculous things and because wedon't have a live audience, I
guess nobody can really take meon about it.
But I sit here looking at thesefinancial markets.
So I my entire career, havebeen a Main Street business
person, right?
Not a Wall Street businessperson.
(07:47):
And the thing that bothers meabout Wall Street is they just
play with money.
It's all like this giant casinogambling speculation hall where
they look at little things.
It kind of galls me that, whenbusiness is doing well, the
market's tube Because well,what's the Fed going to do to
rates and our ability to makemoney on other people's money?
(08:09):
So that's my rant, you know.
We're sitting here looking at a1.6 percent GDP growth in the
first quarter is good comparedto a four point whatever it was
percent in the fourth quarter of2023.
And it just kind of bugs me.
Tom Goldsby (08:21):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying and, by the way, I
was an econ finance doublemajor as an undergrad, so I feel
marginally qualified.
But you're right, it's thatnotion of the indefinite time
horizon, when things are goingwell but it doesn't seem to be
reflected in the market.
It's like, well, it's alreadybeen baked in, but meanwhile
someone sneezes and suddenlythings go tanking and it's like,
(08:46):
okay, didn't you like bake in?
You know that we might.
It's allergy season from cryingout loud.
You know that we might sneezeevery now and then and it's like
this sudden shock.
And the market does tend toreact to bad news a lot more
than it reacts to positive news.
So that's where I'm reallygetting excited.
Like I said, we're kind of inbetween, but when we start
getting those quarterly reportshere for second quarter, that's
(09:08):
where it's going to be reallytelling to me.
I mean, I sense that businessesby and large are doing quite
well and you know there is againsome stability despite, you
know, chaos out there.
But hey, something I do want totalk a little bit about, and I
don't know if now's the righttime, but a little bit of the
European scene and what Iexperienced, because you know
the awful lot of volatility thatwe experience here.
(09:29):
We talk about it podcasts in,podcasts out, but I'll tell you
what.
You're even closer to the firein Europe and I got a strong
read on that.
Ted Stank (09:38):
Tom, before we do that, let me bring up another
railroad scenario that's beengoing on and that's this kind of
breakaway shareholder group forNorfolk Southern that's been
trying to oust the currentmanagement team over precision
railroading or the degree towhich the management team
implements precision railroading.
There's been a lot ofcontroversy with that company
(10:01):
over recent months and just latelast week the overall
shareholders resisted thatbreakaway group's desire to
replace the management team.
So I think for shippers that'sprobably good news, because
precision railroading tends tonot necessarily help shippers.
At least that's what shippershave been saying about some of
(10:21):
these.
Tom Goldsby (10:22):
Yeah, and I'd been reading a little something about
that.
You know I'll tell you when therails come into the news, you
know it's it's like oh yeah,most everything moves by truck
at some point in itsdistribution and we kind of
assume a rail out there and thenwhen there's again a hiccup of
some kind or some major form ofdisruption, it comes to the
(10:43):
forefront.
I mean, something I'm keen topoint out when I'm teaching
transportation is that if youlook at the metric of ton miles,
the hybrid measure of distanceand volume, we're extremely
dependent on rail in thiscountry, on this continent, much
more so than any other place onthe planet.
It's largely because prettyreliable system, you know,
(11:04):
particularly intermodal.
So that's good to hear thatperhaps there's going to be some
continuity there.
Ted Stank (11:10):
Yeah, all right.
Now to the Europe scene.
Tom Goldsby (11:14):
To the Europe desk.
Ted Stank (11:15):
Yeah, the Europe desk .
Tom Goldsby (11:17):
All right, yeah, so I was just kind of suggesting
that.
You know, while we feel we'vebeen walking on eggshells here
in North America for quite sometime trying to find our footing
again, it was really interestingto spend time in Europe and
have some long conversationsover some really good wine and
risotto in Verona with Yvonneand talk to some business
(11:39):
professionals, and that was whatwas great is, they were
actually launching two newmaster's programs at the
University of Verona, and so Igot to attend the big launch
party for that last week, got tomeet an Italian astronaut.
It was really a great venue,but it gave me a chance to talk
to a lot of industry people.
They were kind enough toconverse with me in English and
to be very open, and they sharedwith me again this notion of
(12:03):
being a little closer to thefire, certainly, as it would
result.
You know, conflict in Europe,russian invasion and the
dependencies interdependenciesthey have right there within the
continent, but then also, youknow, closer to the issues in
the Middle East and some greaterdependencies they have, and so
I came to appreciate a littlebit that, while we've been a
(12:26):
little bit, woe is me herestateside, they're still trying
to figure out how to navigateBrexit.
You know that's been sevenyears now and they still don't
quite know how to deal withtheir suddenly disconnected
partner in the UK.
So while we're a bit again inchaos I keep using that term.
You know, they're really alittle bit closer to it over
(12:48):
there and, yes, they haveconsiderable concerns about our
upcoming election here in the USand what that might mean for
US-European trade relations, notto mention defense PACs and all
that stuff.
Ted Stank (13:00):
Yeah, you know, one of the things we didn't bring up
in our earlier economic updatewas all this talk about tariffs.
Regardless of who wins inNovember, it's very likely that
tariffs are going to go up,certainly with trade with China,
but probably also likely withour European partners.
Tom Goldsby (13:15):
That's right.
And meanwhile didn't you justobserve I'm looking in some of
your notes here imports are wayup from Asia and China, right,
and do you think maybe that'sgetting a little bit ahead of
any prospective tariffs thatcould come?
Ted Stank (13:29):
And I think again, love to get Martha's take on
this, but I think it's largelybecause of the strength of the
dollar right now.
Tom Goldsby (13:36):
Yeah yeah, that's true too.
I found myself having a reallynice multi-course meal and
getting the check and beingpleasantly surprised.
I can't recall the last timethat happened stateside or
beyond.
Ted Stank (13:47):
I can't recall the last time that happened
stateside or beyond Pivoting alittle bit.
One of the things that we'venoticed I certainly have noticed
over my many years in supplychain, as I look out over the
crowd at both our supply chainforum but also, in most
particular, at our leadershipgroup, our executive advisory
board has been the increasinggender diversity among our
(14:09):
senior leaders of our partnerorganizations.
Just looking through the newsagain, volvo Cars just released
that they promoted FrancescaGamboni as their chief supply
chain officer and we're seeingthat increasingly in our partner
groups as we bring MarthaBuffington in.
Martha is chief procurementofficer for SC Johnson, one of
our really really good partners,long-term partners that we do a
(14:32):
lot of different things with,and one of the things I'd love
to get Martha's take on is notonly her perspectives on
leadership in general, but alsoher perspectives on leadership
as a woman rising through theranks and now holding a very
senior leadership position.
Martha, welcome to our podcast.
Great to have you.
Martha Buffington (14:50):
Hey Ted, Hi Tom, Thanks for having me.
Tom Goldsby (14:52):
It's great to have you, martha.
We've known each other a longtime, since we were just kids,
in this field.
You had a long career atCoca-Cola before becoming chief
procurement officer there at SCJohnson.
I think there was a stopelsewhere in between, but again,
really great to have you and wedo look to you as a rising star
(15:13):
in supply chain.
And so if we could take up thatquestion that's Ted posed to
you just a moment ago in termsof kind of how you see you know
from the perspective of yourcareer and here we are, 2024 and
what it means to be a seniorleader in supply chain and a
woman as a senior leader, I'dlove to hear what you have to
(15:34):
say.
Martha Buffington (15:35):
Thanks, yes, early on I learned from you and
your other colleagues at thesupply chain forums is a great
way to learn as you get yourcareer started in supply chain.
I love supply chain.
I tell everybody it's afabulous career.
It's so diverse, there's somany different aspects to it and
now these days, after COVID,right, supply chain just has a
(15:57):
stronger and stronger seat atthe table, as does procurement.
And I've seen that happen aswell Because, as you said, I
started my career for over 20years at Coca-Cola, worked all
across the supply chain, workedas chief procurement officer of
a large division.
Then I went to Europe and Iworked at a company called DSM,
(16:17):
where I was also the CPO, andit's a global health and
nutrition company.
So I got the chance to live andwork in Europe throughout COVID
in fact, and now I'm back at SCJohnson being Chief Procurement
Officer here.
So I've really seen how supplychain has changed across the
years, how procurement haschanged in this new post-COVID
(16:40):
era.
It's very different, muchbroader remit for all of us and
stronger seat at the table, andwe're really right in the middle
of everything companies aredealing with both top line and
bottom line.
Exciting time to be in thisfield and thanks for having me
today.
Ted Stank (16:59):
Great to have you with us, martha.
So you've seen a few differentcompanies with probably very
different company cultures.
Certainly Coca-Cola, a large, agiant publicly traded company.
Then you've been with aEuropean company and now you're
with a company with privateownership, which makes that kind
of different, even though it'sextremely large as well.
(17:20):
It's got to be one of thelargest privately held companies
in the US.
How do you navigate thesedifferent cultures, given the
different perspectives oncorporate culture across these
different countries companiesyou've been part of?
Martha Buffington (17:33):
Well, you're right, ted, they were all very
different and I think that'ssomething it's really important
for everyone to learn in theircareer.
How do you navigate thesecultural changes when you switch
companies, because it can bekind of deceiving.
You know, I went from a bighousehold name corporation and I
knew how everything worked atCoca-Cola after 20 years there.
(17:56):
I knew so many people, I knewhow things worked, I knew the
culture.
And when I went to DSM inEurope I was a bit deceived
because in the Netherlands theyspeak English and procurement's
procurement.
I knew what I wanted toaccomplish in the procurement
organization and I just didn'tprobably take as much time as I
(18:19):
should have to sort of rebuildall those relationships, rebuild
up trust with all mystakeholders before trying to
drive a procurementtransformation.
So when I came back to theStates, to SC Johnson, I tried
not to make that mistake again.
You know, cultural differencesare real and they're important
and, like you said, being at aprivately held company, our
(18:42):
point of view is a lot longerterm than public companies and
that means sometimes decisionsget made differently than they
would have in my past roles.
So really learn from myexperience, learn from my
mistakes, you know.
Take the time to understandyour corporate culture, whether
(19:03):
it's you know, internationalculture, like being in the
Netherlands, or it's a differentindustry, or it's private
versus public.
But take the time to learn thatculture and really get your
feet under you before you reallytry to drive a transformation,
so that that transformationreally fits the needs and the
(19:23):
culture of the company.
Ted Stank (19:25):
Have you purposely tried to find mentors to help
you do that?
You know, just say, hey, I cando this or I can do that.
What's normal around here?
Martha Buffington (19:33):
Absolutely so .
Actually, when I came to SCJohnson, some of the real senior
executives really took me undertheir wing and helped me
onboard.
Here I mean, in fact, a funnystory.
My first week I started in themiddle of January, there was a
snowstorm and I couldn't get tothe office and I was supposed to
meet the senior vice presidentof R&D that day.
(19:55):
Well, she went out of her wayto meet me at a restaurant near
my house so that I didn't haveto drive all the way into the
office, and then we spent acouple hours in a snowstorm
really getting to know eachother, and from then on she's
been a great mentor.
So things like that, whenpeople go out of their way, it
really means a lot and thathelps you.
Tom Goldsby (20:18):
Wow, that's awesome .
And, as you point out, it wasJanuary of 2022 when you started
with SCJ.
Again, you were making thereturn from your assignment in
Europe and starting a newcompany in a new location, and
I'm just curious about kind ofunderstanding that culture.
And I'm just curious about kindof understanding that culture.
(20:39):
It sounds as though there weresome significant individuals
there that were very helpful atkind of accelerating that,
despite, you know, we're talkingsnowstorms in the upper Midwest
, which are quite real Ted and Ican attest to that but also,
you know, coming into this neworganization in the throes of
pandemic in January 2022, andwere you reporting to the office
at that time, or was there somehybrid approach or how was that
(21:00):
being managed?
Martha Buffington (21:01):
So SC Johnson believes that we're better
together and we have a approachwhere we're in the office
together four days a week andyou can float your one day of
teleworking a week and actuallyI love it.
I mean to actually be here inthe office.
I can walk out and talk toanybody and everyone in my
(21:23):
organization, I can go to thebuilding next door for meetings
and we're all really there inperson together.
It's great.
Of course, we're a globalcompany, so I have lots of calls
early, you know early and late,and we have virtual folks on
calls all the time.
We work in a hybrid way, justlike everybody else, but in
general, the people who work inmy building are here four days a
(21:45):
week and it's really arefreshing change after being
stuck at home in the Netherlandsfor 18 months.
Ted Stank (21:52):
By the way, for our listeners who are not familiar,
sc Johnson is headquartered inWisconsin, so snowstorms in
January are probably somethingthat's probably part of the
culture that you have to getused to, right, martha?
Martha Buffington (22:04):
Yeah, everybody comes to the office
even if it's snowing.
I'm used to being in Atlanta,where if there's snow, you do
not drive.
Tom Goldsby (22:12):
Well, martha, as you point out, you've come up
through supply chain.
I had a lot of different rolesat Coca-Cola perhaps the world's
biggest brand and again, that'swhere I got to know you and
it's been great to witness yourachievements and progress, not
only with that organization butthe others with which you work.
And what would you considersome of the key qualities to
(22:36):
your success?
What is it that you have kindof pushed yourself to do and
maybe look to others to kind ofhelp you to achieve that success
?
Martha Buffington (22:46):
I think effective leadership is
effective leadership, right, nomatter if you're a man or you're
a woodman or you're a woodman.
But as I was coming up throughthe ranks, really, I was always
watching mentors, watching women, watching men learning what
they did, learning thoseleadership skills.
(23:07):
I was always studyingleadership.
I was always paying attentionto good leadership
characteristics and you know, asI've gotten up to more senior
executive ranks, it's beeninteresting to see the
differences.
They're much more subtle now interms of the difference between
men and women and leadershipstyles and stuff.
But I had a really funnyexperience when I was in the
(23:30):
Netherlands talking to the CEO.
He's now retired, but you knowwe were talking about my career
and leadership and I asked himwhat does good leadership look
like and who should I role modelthere at the company?
And he rattled off all thewomen in leadership and never
mentioned the men, which waskind of interesting.
And when we got talking aboutit he was trying to tell me that
(23:53):
for a woman in leadership, youneed to be balanced, you need to
be assertive yet nurturingright, you need to be confident
but not overly aggressive.
You need to be capable but alsoyou know nice.
So I got thinking about thatand I felt like this is really a
(24:15):
double standard, and I even ranacross the Harvard Business
Review article at the time.
It was called the double bind,and women are expected to have
all these balancedcharacteristics and you know,
people don't ask if well, wasthe man nice?
Was he too assertive or tooaggressive, and is he mentoring
(24:36):
and is he developing people andthings you know?
Yet women are expected to dothat and at first it really
bothered me, but the more Irealized you know what these are
the characteristics of reallygreat leaders, no matter if
they're men or women.
And so I just continue to tryto hone and drive and improve my
leadership skills across thespectrum and to be balanced and
(25:00):
be authentic, because you gettripped up if you try to be
somebody else and someone you'renot.
I think that's the biggesttakeaway as I've evolved in my
career that it's not a man andmale-female thing, it's are you
a great leader or not?
And how are you honing thosecapabilities and are you being
authentic?
Ted Stank (25:20):
Yeah, I know, in 2024 , certainly what you described
as that CEO saying to you iswhat I would want my leadership
to be.
I would hope that the days ofthe Theory X screaming at people
to get work done andthreatening to fire them other
than maybe if you're in aprivate company, I'll say I
doubt Elon Musk is going tolisten to our podcast.
(25:42):
So maybe somebody like ElonMusk, but I would hope that that
kind of a leader is notpromoted to senior leadership
levels.
Although you read in theheadlines all the time people
that are in positions,particularly in certain
industries that makes youscratch your head and say people
that are in positions,particularly in certain
industries.
Tom Goldsby (25:57):
That makes you scratch your head and say, how
did they get here?
But I love that notion ofauthenticity and I think
integrity that goes right there,hand in hand, and I think
that's great advice for all ofus is to be our authentic selves
.
And you know, so often I'vefound myself wondering what
should I do in a situation, andthat's as opposed to what do
others expect me to do in thatsituation?
(26:19):
Right, and I usually find out.
If I can answer that firstquestion, I'll be okay.
Right, it's my authentic selfcoming forward.
And how do you work with othersin your organization?
Then, again, as you've become amore senior leader in the
organization, you now have thatopportunity to mentor others and
to bring people into yourorganization, and it's probably
(26:42):
a very sizable procurementorganization that you have there
at SCJ.
Can you talk a little bit abouthow you work with others now
that you find yourself in thatsenior leadership role and how
you empower others?
Martha Buffington (26:54):
Sure, tom, it's definitely something that's
important as a leader is toempower others and help them
develop.
And when I think back to sortof the hardest transitions in my
career, it was that transitionfrom either individual
contributor to manager or frommanager to leader.
And those transition points.
(27:14):
When you're in them, sometimesyou don't know you're in them
and you don't realize why am Ihaving the hardest time making
the jump Right At this point inmy career.
I've been successful all along.
Why can I not make that jump tothe next level and become a
people manager?
Or why can't I make that jumpto more of the C-suite,
(27:35):
executive-ish kind of roles?
So realize first of all, thoseare big transition points and I
try to help coach and mentor myteam through those transition
points.
And once you realize you're inthat transition point and once
you realize that the skills youuse to get you here are not the
skills that will be usefulgetting you there.
(27:56):
You use to get you here are notthe skills that will be useful
getting you there, then you'reopen to some self-reflection and
some development and growth andcoaching.
And so that's when I givepeople articles, I suggest books
, I tell them some of myexperiences and I help coach
them through these transitionpoints.
So I think that as long as yourealize that you're going
(28:20):
through them and you're open togrowing because I do see people
get stuck I see that they're sogood at what they do in their
current role they cannot be opento changing and behaving in new
ways for the next level ofleadership.
Ted Stank (28:36):
You know, martha, this strikes me as SCJ has been
one of the great partnercompanies that over the years
has sent a number of your risingleaders to our executive MBA
program in global supply chain,and the specific aim of that
program is to help people makethat transition from functional
leadership to higher levelbusiness leadership.
(28:57):
And at the end of this one yearprocess we always ask them on
the last day what is one of thebiggest things you've learned?
And almost universally studentswill say first of all it's
financial skills and gettingreally adept at being
comfortable with financials.
But the other thing they say isthey have been drinking from
the fire hose so much over theyear trying to keep their job
(29:18):
going and keep up with thisrigorous MBA program that they
had to learn to delegate andempower their teams more.
And lo and behold, when they goaway for nine days, they're
currently our current year groupis currently in Ho Chi Minh
City in Vietnam for the nextnine days is currently in Ho Chi
Minh City in Vietnam for thenext nine days, and business
(29:40):
goes on right and you expectthem to be able to continue to
meet when the ball comes in theair and it's their teams doing
it, and they all expresspositive surprise that their
teams were able to handle thingswell.
Any comments on that?
Martha Buffington (29:53):
That's a great example, and you're right,
because when you're anindividual contributor, you are
trying to be driven yourselfwith your own accomplishments,
and that mindset is hard tobreak because now you've got to
delegate to people and havesuccess through other people,
(30:15):
and you're doing this for thesuccess of the business, not for
your own personal career growth.
So that's a really importantmindset shift to make, and it's
you're there for the company,you're there to drive results
for the company, and when you'rein a management role, you have
to have broader impact acrossthe business.
(30:38):
And so you've got to empoweryour team.
You've got to have people theright people on your team who
know what the vision is, theobjective, they know their roles
and they're self-motivated toget out and accomplish what they
need to accomplish.
Delegating just feels verytactical or transactional.
(30:59):
So I suggest that people shouldreally think about empowerment
more than delegating.
I mean it's your role, then, toremove barriers for them, to
help develop them, give themexposure, give them coaching and
then let them succeed.
And you know, eventually that'sgoing to give you way more
personal satisfaction than youachieving greatness on a project
(31:23):
you were running yourself inthe past, once you become a
leader of people and you'regiving back to helping people's
careers advance, then it's muchmore fulfilling, even.
Ted Stank (31:36):
I love that delineation between empowerment
and delegation.
That's great.
I'm going to use that goingforward.
Tom Goldsby (31:42):
Hey, I think it'd be a mistake if we didn't give
Martha a chance to opine alittle bit herself on the field
and Ted and I had that openingstanza there.
And, martha, I think you'relistening in on some of the
things that we're seeing.
I'm curious about things thatyou're paying attention to as
the role of a chief procurementofficer for a major consumer
(32:03):
goods company.
What are some of the thingsyou're really paying attention
to and maybe a little bitsensitive to what's going on in
the future?
Martha Buffington (32:11):
Well, you mentioned a lot of them.
One is really the broad themeof risk, whether it's
transportation risk and railstrikes or port strikes or Red
Sea crisis.
Transportation is one kind ofrisk.
Tariffs are another kind ofrisk.
Regulatory risks are another,especially in Europe, putting in
a lot of Green New Deal thingsthat are regulating chemicals
(32:35):
and a lot of sustainabilityrequirements are coming into
play.
You know chemicals and a lot ofsustainability requirements are
coming into play, so risk isvery important to me.
It's something I look at a lotAlso, just the regular economic.
You know supply, demand driversgoing on.
You know we're a home cleaningproducts company generally, and
(32:56):
so we're buying a lot ofchemicals and packaging and all
of those industries have theirown unique dynamics and so
really truly understanding themand getting underneath the real
drivers, the cost drivers, isvery important, and forming
those strong supplierrelationships so that we have
supply continuity is alsoimportant.
(33:18):
That's the blocking and tacklingof procurement.
And then, on top of that is howdo you build capability of your
talent and how do you get thesenew digital tools to make
people more efficient andeffective?
Because you're always going toneed people to do procurement,
of course, but I want themspending their time on the
intellectual and the strategic,the collaborative, the curious
(33:42):
things that they should be doingto drive our business forward,
not the blocking and tackling ofprocurement, not the making
sure they file the contract onthe right data, the right
insights, the right should costmodels, the right market
intelligence to make really gooddecisions for the company.
(34:04):
So digital talent, development,risk and market dynamics, I'd
say, are the big themes that I'mlooking at.
Tom Goldsby (34:14):
That's a good rundown and that just occurs to
me.
Those are the things that weneed to be bringing to our
curriculum in full force, right?
I think we're doing a good jobacross many of those, but it's
always great to hear from thelikes of Martha to underscore
all that.
Ted Stank (34:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Martha, we want to be veryrespectful of your time.
We know you got a lot going onhere.
It is Monday morning inparticular, so you're coming
into all the new things thathave piled up over the weekend,
I'm sure.
Thanks so much for being withus.
We really enjoy our time.
Hopefully see you at the nextadvisory board meeting in
Knoxville in August.
And with that let's wrap upthis episode.
(34:50):
Tom, you got any partingcomments?
Tom Goldsby (34:52):
Again good to be back together, and we've got a
great summer of podcastrecording in store.
We're keen to get other seniorleaders like Martha, as well as
other excellent voices from ourfield, and so just want to tease
that we've got a great summerahead.
We're already starting to bookfor fall, so we've got a good,
(35:13):
robust roster of guests comingup, some perhaps that you've
heard of and others that youhaven't.
So it's going to be really funto unveil those sessions for you
, and we're just getting readyto have graduation here at Rocky
Top, so we're going to besending a whole new batch of UT
alums out in the world, and Ialways implore them to use that
knowledge for good, not evil,and so we're hopeful that
(35:34):
they're going to do just that.
But an exciting time here atRocky Top.
Martha Buffington (35:37):
Great to talk to you, Paul.
Thanks for having me today.
Tom Goldsby (35:44):
Thank you, Martha.
With that, we'll go ahead andput a wrap on this episode and
just remind folks that you canreach us here at the University
of Tennessee Global Supply ChainInstitute at gsciutkedu.
Until next time.
Introduction (35:53):
Thanks for tuning in to Tennessee on Supply Chain
Management.
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Have any questions, thoughts orfeedback?
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Join us next time as wecontinue pulling back the
(36:16):
curtain on the world of supplychain, educating and
entertaining you along the way.
Until then, listeners.
Welcome to the Tennessee on Supply Chain
Management podcast.
Listen in as co-hosts Ted Stankand Tom Goldsby set sail into
the world of end-to-end supplychain management, diving deep
into today's most relevantbusiness topics.
They'll share insights inpressing industry issues and
tackle the challenges keepingsupply chain professionals up at
night.
If you're enjoying the ride,download and subscribe to
(00:22):
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Ted Stank (00:27):
Hello everyone and welcome to the ninth episode of
the second season of Tennesseeon Supply Chain Management.
I'm here with my good friend,Tom Goldsby, who's just returned
from a trip to Europe.
He doesn't look very jet lagged, but we'll see if that's the
way he feels he might have hadseveral cups of coffee already
this morning.
We're also joined by our goodfriend, Martha Buffington at SC
(00:48):
Johnson, and we're going tobring Martha in later.
We're going to talk about someleadership issues from her
perspective.
Tom, what are you thinkingabout these days?
What's going on?
Tom Goldsby (00:56):
You're absolutely right.
I did just get back a couple ofdays ago from a week in Italy.
It's a marvelous trip, a reallygreat time to be there, a
little bit ahead of the touristcrowd, spent some time in Venice
and did some teaching in Veronaand Vicenza the three Vs of
Northeast Italy and really had agreat time with Yvonne Russo,
(01:17):
our good friend at theUniversity of Verona.
He hosted me and I ate well, Idrank well, I got to engage with
a lot of really bright,brilliant students and faculty
over there in Verona, and hey,live to tell about it.
But it's good to be back home.
Ted Stank (01:32):
Yeah, you know that University of Verona
relationship with University ofTennessee goes back some at
least 15 years, maybe longer,and Yvonne was a doctoral
student who had come over andjoined us for a short period of
time back when I had firstgotten here to University of
Tennessee, so it's maybe morelike 20 years.
Tom Goldsby (01:50):
Yeah, he had a lot of memories and also a lot of
old pictures from the timetogether.
So it was fun to see his visualmemories and to hear him talk
about his life and times.
He speaks very fondly of histime at Rocky Top.
To hear him talk about his lifeand times.
He speaks very fondly of histime at Rocky Top and of course,
we were able to host hisdoctoral student, Benedetta,
here at Rocky Top this spring.
(02:10):
So it is, as you point out, arelationship's been going on for
a long time and we expect it tocontinue into the future.
But hey, let's get back to thegood old US ofA and what's going
on around the neighborhood.
I think we're kind of a littlebit in between some of the
economic indicators that weusually speak of.
I think later this week we'llsee PPI and CPI and some of
(02:31):
those things.
I did see a consumer sentimentindex, but I don't put a lot of
faith in what people say abouttheir sentiments.
I look at what they do.
But I will say that theconsumer sentiment index was
down, I think, to one of thelowest levels and I think it's
in large part because inflationjust continues to kind of loom
(02:52):
and has people a little bitgloomy, but they're still buying
.
Ted Stank (02:56):
You're right.
We are in the middle of a lotof things.
There are some indications.
I mean everything that I'vebeen reading.
I always try to make sureeverybody knows I am not an
economist.
Tom is an undergraduateeconomics major, but I am not.
I've had one course, I thinkexactly in economics, and that
was probably in 1979 orsomething.
Tom Goldsby (03:13):
Did you pass?
Ted Stank (03:14):
that class, ted, I did.
I think I got a pretty goodgrade in it, but notwithstanding
.
But I've been reading a lottrying to make sure that I stay
up on it and everything seems toshow right now that the economy
is cooling off, that we aregoing to have that proverbial
soft landing.
I think that that's whateveryone's hoping for.
Most of the recent data thatcame out in early May jobs
(03:38):
report was lower thanexpectations.
The number of unemployment hasstayed about stable.
Gdp in the first quarter wasrelatively low 1.6% so maybe
that's showing a little bit ofcooling as well.
But, as you said, everybody'swaiting for this new Consumer
Price Index report, which is dueout Today is Monday for those
(03:58):
of you listening May 13th.
The jobs inflation report isdue out this Wednesday and
certainly all the markets arejust hovering waiting for that
news.
Tom Goldsby (04:07):
You know, I was away for a week and the Dow just
soared the entire week I wasaway, which just makes me think
maybe I need to plan anothertrip somewhere.
I didn't get a single note frommy wife saying the market's
tanking, the market's tanking.
I came back and, lo and behold,we're approaching that.
You know 40,000.
(04:27):
So it's a big deal.
But you're right, you knowwe're just kind of waiting pins
and needles a little bit.
You know still a lot ofuncertainty out there.
But you know, something that wedon't reference very often is
the global supply chain pressureindex, and I know there's a lot
of scrutiny of that.
Perhaps it's justified, but theNew York Fed has been putting
(04:47):
this out for a few years andit's been sub-zero for a little
while now and it continues to gothat way, which means that
things are fairly stable on ahistorical basis, based upon
manufacturing and transportationindices that it references not
only domestically but around theworld.
And you know it does seem likemaybe you know, we still haven't
(05:09):
cleared the wreckage of thedolly from Baltimore.
Ted Stank (05:12):
That's supposed to happen today, by the way.
Okay, it got delayed fromyesterday due to weather.
It's supposed to get clearedfrom the deck of the dolly today
and then they expect to refloatthe dolly, if everything goes
well on, I think, tomorrow orthe following day.
It's aground right now and theywant to keep it aground until
they can assess damage.
Tom Goldsby (05:33):
Okay, but something that I did get asked about,
probably about 10 days ago, werethe two Canadian railroads
striking the CN and the CP.
And I'll have to admit I'vebeen away and haven't checked to
see what's going on, but myresponse to the reporter was
that supply chain managers arejust kind of like, yeah, what's
(05:53):
next?
And I think that we've becomebattle tested over these last
four or five years to chaos anduncertainty and hey, we're just
figuring out how to navigate.
Oh, so you're saying that youknow the one transcontinental
railroad that we have is goingto shut down, perhaps?
All right, well, I guess webetter look into trucking a lot
more stuff, or what have you.
Ted Stank (06:14):
May 22nd is the date, tom, although the Canadian
Federal Labor Relations Board islooking into it, so that may
delay things as well.
I'd be very interested as webring our guest in to get her
take on whether that's a ho-humscenario or not.
But yeah, you know, I thinkthat I mean everybody's looking
at the Middle East and thesituation in the Red Sea Suez
(06:37):
Canal seems to be much betteroff from an available water
scenario than we had originallyanticipated.
So hopefully that crunch hasabated somewhat.
There are some signs thetransportation recession is
easing, that freight is comingback and transportation pricing
and available capacity startingto stabilize as well.
(06:57):
I looked at the purchasingmanagers index for both
manufacturing and services.
They are just slightly under 50, which means that's a slight
contraction.
That means that purchasingmanagers know there's some
(07:25):
additional easing I guessslowing in the logistics
marketplace as well.
So you know I always love thispodcast because I can say
ridiculous things and because wedon't have a live audience, I
guess nobody can really take meon about it.
But I sit here looking at thesefinancial markets.
So I my entire career, havebeen a Main Street business
person, right?
Not a Wall Street businessperson.
(07:47):
And the thing that bothers meabout Wall Street is they just
play with money.
It's all like this giant casinogambling speculation hall where
they look at little things.
It kind of galls me that, whenbusiness is doing well, the
market's tube Because well,what's the Fed going to do to
rates and our ability to makemoney on other people's money?
(08:09):
So that's my rant, you know.
We're sitting here looking at a1.6 percent GDP growth in the
first quarter is good comparedto a four point whatever it was
percent in the fourth quarter of2023.
And it just kind of bugs me.
Tom Goldsby (08:21):
Yeah, I hear what you're saying and, by the way, I
was an econ finance doublemajor as an undergrad, so I feel
marginally qualified.
But you're right, it's thatnotion of the indefinite time
horizon, when things are goingwell but it doesn't seem to be
reflected in the market.
It's like, well, it's alreadybeen baked in, but meanwhile
someone sneezes and suddenlythings go tanking and it's like,
(08:46):
okay, didn't you like bake in?
You know that we might.
It's allergy season from cryingout loud.
You know that we might sneezeevery now and then and it's like
this sudden shock.
And the market does tend toreact to bad news a lot more
than it reacts to positive news.
So that's where I'm reallygetting excited.
Like I said, we're kind of inbetween, but when we start
getting those quarterly reportshere for second quarter, that's
(09:08):
where it's going to be reallytelling to me.
I mean, I sense that businessesby and large are doing quite
well and you know there is againsome stability despite, you
know, chaos out there.
But hey, something I do want totalk a little bit about, and I
don't know if now's the righttime, but a little bit of the
European scene and what Iexperienced, because you know
the awful lot of volatility thatwe experience here.
(09:29):
We talk about it podcasts in,podcasts out, but I'll tell you
what.
You're even closer to the firein Europe and I got a strong
read on that.
Ted Stank (09:38):
Tom, before we do that, let me bring up another
railroad scenario that's beengoing on and that's this kind of
breakaway shareholder group forNorfolk Southern that's been
trying to oust the currentmanagement team over precision
railroading or the degree towhich the management team
implements precision railroading.
There's been a lot ofcontroversy with that company
(10:01):
over recent months and just latelast week the overall
shareholders resisted thatbreakaway group's desire to
replace the management team.
So I think for shippers that'sprobably good news, because
precision railroading tends tonot necessarily help shippers.
At least that's what shippershave been saying about some of
(10:21):
these.
Tom Goldsby (10:22):
Yeah, and I'd been reading a little something about
that.
You know I'll tell you when therails come into the news, you
know it's it's like oh yeah,most everything moves by truck
at some point in itsdistribution and we kind of
assume a rail out there and thenwhen there's again a hiccup of
some kind or some major form ofdisruption, it comes to the
(10:43):
forefront.
I mean, something I'm keen topoint out when I'm teaching
transportation is that if youlook at the metric of ton miles,
the hybrid measure of distanceand volume, we're extremely
dependent on rail in thiscountry, on this continent, much
more so than any other place onthe planet.
It's largely because prettyreliable system, you know,
(11:04):
particularly intermodal.
So that's good to hear thatperhaps there's going to be some
continuity there.
Ted Stank (11:10):
Yeah, all right.
Now to the Europe scene.
Tom Goldsby (11:14):
To the Europe desk.
Ted Stank (11:15):
Yeah, the Europe desk .
Tom Goldsby (11:17):
All right, yeah, so I was just kind of suggesting
that.
You know, while we feel we'vebeen walking on eggshells here
in North America for quite sometime trying to find our footing
again, it was really interestingto spend time in Europe and
have some long conversationsover some really good wine and
risotto in Verona with Yvonneand talk to some business
(11:39):
professionals, and that was whatwas great is, they were
actually launching two newmaster's programs at the
University of Verona, and so Igot to attend the big launch
party for that last week, got tomeet an Italian astronaut.
It was really a great venue,but it gave me a chance to talk
to a lot of industry people.
They were kind enough toconverse with me in English and
to be very open, and they sharedwith me again this notion of
(12:03):
being a little closer to thefire, certainly, as it would
result.
You know, conflict in Europe,russian invasion and the
dependencies interdependenciesthey have right there within the
continent, but then also, youknow, closer to the issues in
the Middle East and some greaterdependencies they have, and so
I came to appreciate a littlebit that, while we've been a
(12:26):
little bit, woe is me herestateside, they're still trying
to figure out how to navigateBrexit.
You know that's been sevenyears now and they still don't
quite know how to deal withtheir suddenly disconnected
partner in the UK.
So while we're a bit again inchaos I keep using that term.
You know, they're really alittle bit closer to it over
(12:48):
there and, yes, they haveconsiderable concerns about our
upcoming election here in the USand what that might mean for
US-European trade relations, notto mention defense PACs and all
that stuff.
Ted Stank (13:00):
Yeah, you know, one of the things we didn't bring up
in our earlier economic updatewas all this talk about tariffs.
Regardless of who wins inNovember, it's very likely that
tariffs are going to go up,certainly with trade with China,
but probably also likely withour European partners.
Tom Goldsby (13:15):
That's right.
And meanwhile didn't you justobserve I'm looking in some of
your notes here imports are wayup from Asia and China, right,
and do you think maybe that'sgetting a little bit ahead of
any prospective tariffs thatcould come?
Ted Stank (13:29):
And I think again, love to get Martha's take on
this, but I think it's largelybecause of the strength of the
dollar right now.
Tom Goldsby (13:36):
Yeah yeah, that's true too.
I found myself having a reallynice multi-course meal and
getting the check and beingpleasantly surprised.
I can't recall the last timethat happened stateside or
beyond.
Ted Stank (13:47):
I can't recall the last time that happened
stateside or beyond Pivoting alittle bit.
One of the things that we'venoticed I certainly have noticed
over my many years in supplychain, as I look out over the
crowd at both our supply chainforum but also, in most
particular, at our leadershipgroup, our executive advisory
board has been the increasinggender diversity among our
(14:09):
senior leaders of our partnerorganizations.
Just looking through the newsagain, volvo Cars just released
that they promoted FrancescaGamboni as their chief supply
chain officer and we're seeingthat increasingly in our partner
groups as we bring MarthaBuffington in.
Martha is chief procurementofficer for SC Johnson, one of
our really really good partners,long-term partners that we do a
(14:32):
lot of different things with,and one of the things I'd love
to get Martha's take on is notonly her perspectives on
leadership in general, but alsoher perspectives on leadership
as a woman rising through theranks and now holding a very
senior leadership position.
Martha, welcome to our podcast.
Great to have you.
Martha Buffington (14:50):
Hey Ted, Hi Tom, Thanks for having me.
Tom Goldsby (14:52):
It's great to have you, martha.
We've known each other a longtime, since we were just kids,
in this field.
You had a long career atCoca-Cola before becoming chief
procurement officer there at SCJohnson.
I think there was a stopelsewhere in between, but again,
really great to have you and wedo look to you as a rising star
(15:13):
in supply chain.
And so if we could take up thatquestion that's Ted posed to
you just a moment ago in termsof kind of how you see you know
from the perspective of yourcareer and here we are, 2024 and
what it means to be a seniorleader in supply chain and a
woman as a senior leader, I'dlove to hear what you have to
(15:34):
say.
Martha Buffington (15:35):
Thanks, yes, early on I learned from you and
your other colleagues at thesupply chain forums is a great
way to learn as you get yourcareer started in supply chain.
I love supply chain.
I tell everybody it's afabulous career.
It's so diverse, there's somany different aspects to it and
now these days, after COVID,right, supply chain just has a
(15:57):
stronger and stronger seat atthe table, as does procurement.
And I've seen that happen aswell Because, as you said, I
started my career for over 20years at Coca-Cola, worked all
across the supply chain, workedas chief procurement officer of
a large division.
Then I went to Europe and Iworked at a company called DSM,
(16:17):
where I was also the CPO, andit's a global health and
nutrition company.
So I got the chance to live andwork in Europe throughout COVID
in fact, and now I'm back at SCJohnson being Chief Procurement
Officer here.
So I've really seen how supplychain has changed across the
years, how procurement haschanged in this new post-COVID
(16:40):
era.
It's very different, muchbroader remit for all of us and
stronger seat at the table, andwe're really right in the middle
of everything companies aredealing with both top line and
bottom line.
Exciting time to be in thisfield and thanks for having me
today.
Ted Stank (16:59):
Great to have you with us, martha.
So you've seen a few differentcompanies with probably very
different company cultures.
Certainly Coca-Cola, a large, agiant publicly traded company.
Then you've been with aEuropean company and now you're
with a company with privateownership, which makes that kind
of different, even though it'sextremely large as well.
(17:20):
It's got to be one of thelargest privately held companies
in the US.
How do you navigate thesedifferent cultures, given the
different perspectives oncorporate culture across these
different countries companiesyou've been part of?
Martha Buffington (17:33):
Well, you're right, ted, they were all very
different and I think that'ssomething it's really important
for everyone to learn in theircareer.
How do you navigate thesecultural changes when you switch
companies, because it can bekind of deceiving.
You know, I went from a bighousehold name corporation and I
knew how everything worked atCoca-Cola after 20 years there.
(17:56):
I knew so many people, I knewhow things worked, I knew the
culture.
And when I went to DSM inEurope I was a bit deceived
because in the Netherlands theyspeak English and procurement's
procurement.
I knew what I wanted toaccomplish in the procurement
organization and I just didn'tprobably take as much time as I
(18:19):
should have to sort of rebuildall those relationships, rebuild
up trust with all mystakeholders before trying to
drive a procurementtransformation.
So when I came back to theStates, to SC Johnson, I tried
not to make that mistake again.
You know, cultural differencesare real and they're important
and, like you said, being at aprivately held company, our
(18:42):
point of view is a lot longerterm than public companies and
that means sometimes decisionsget made differently than they
would have in my past roles.
So really learn from myexperience, learn from my
mistakes, you know.
Take the time to understandyour corporate culture, whether
(19:03):
it's you know, internationalculture, like being in the
Netherlands, or it's a differentindustry, or it's private
versus public.
But take the time to learn thatculture and really get your
feet under you before you reallytry to drive a transformation,
so that that transformationreally fits the needs and the
(19:23):
culture of the company.
Ted Stank (19:25):
Have you purposely tried to find mentors to help
you do that?
You know, just say, hey, I cando this or I can do that.
What's normal around here?
Martha Buffington (19:33):
Absolutely so .
Actually, when I came to SCJohnson, some of the real senior
executives really took me undertheir wing and helped me
onboard.
Here I mean, in fact, a funnystory.
My first week I started in themiddle of January, there was a
snowstorm and I couldn't get tothe office and I was supposed to
meet the senior vice presidentof R&D that day.
(19:55):
Well, she went out of her wayto meet me at a restaurant near
my house so that I didn't haveto drive all the way into the
office, and then we spent acouple hours in a snowstorm
really getting to know eachother, and from then on she's
been a great mentor.
So things like that, whenpeople go out of their way, it
really means a lot and thathelps you.
Tom Goldsby (20:18):
Wow, that's awesome .
And, as you point out, it wasJanuary of 2022 when you started
with SCJ.
Again, you were making thereturn from your assignment in
Europe and starting a newcompany in a new location, and
I'm just curious about kind ofunderstanding that culture.
And I'm just curious about kindof understanding that culture.
(20:39):
It sounds as though there weresome significant individuals
there that were very helpful atkind of accelerating that,
despite, you know, we're talkingsnowstorms in the upper Midwest
, which are quite real Ted and Ican attest to that but also,
you know, coming into this neworganization in the throes of
pandemic in January 2022, andwere you reporting to the office
at that time, or was there somehybrid approach or how was that
(21:00):
being managed?
Martha Buffington (21:01):
So SC Johnson believes that we're better
together and we have a approachwhere we're in the office
together four days a week andyou can float your one day of
teleworking a week and actuallyI love it.
I mean to actually be here inthe office.
I can walk out and talk toanybody and everyone in my
(21:23):
organization, I can go to thebuilding next door for meetings
and we're all really there inperson together.
It's great.
Of course, we're a globalcompany, so I have lots of calls
early, you know early and late,and we have virtual folks on
calls all the time.
We work in a hybrid way, justlike everybody else, but in
general, the people who work inmy building are here four days a
(21:45):
week and it's really arefreshing change after being
stuck at home in the Netherlandsfor 18 months.
Ted Stank (21:52):
By the way, for our listeners who are not familiar,
sc Johnson is headquartered inWisconsin, so snowstorms in
January are probably somethingthat's probably part of the
culture that you have to getused to, right, martha?
Martha Buffington (22:04):
Yeah, everybody comes to the office
even if it's snowing.
I'm used to being in Atlanta,where if there's snow, you do
not drive.
Tom Goldsby (22:12):
Well, martha, as you point out, you've come up
through supply chain.
I had a lot of different rolesat Coca-Cola perhaps the world's
biggest brand and again, that'swhere I got to know you and
it's been great to witness yourachievements and progress, not
only with that organization butthe others with which you work.
And what would you considersome of the key qualities to
(22:36):
your success?
What is it that you have kindof pushed yourself to do and
maybe look to others to kind ofhelp you to achieve that success
?
Martha Buffington (22:46):
I think effective leadership is
effective leadership, right, nomatter if you're a man or you're
a woodman or you're a woodman.
But as I was coming up throughthe ranks, really, I was always
watching mentors, watching women, watching men learning what
they did, learning thoseleadership skills.
(23:07):
I was always studyingleadership.
I was always paying attentionto good leadership
characteristics and you know, asI've gotten up to more senior
executive ranks, it's beeninteresting to see the
differences.
They're much more subtle now interms of the difference between
men and women and leadershipstyles and stuff.
But I had a really funnyexperience when I was in the
(23:30):
Netherlands talking to the CEO.
He's now retired, but you knowwe were talking about my career
and leadership and I asked himwhat does good leadership look
like and who should I role modelthere at the company?
And he rattled off all thewomen in leadership and never
mentioned the men, which waskind of interesting.
And when we got talking aboutit he was trying to tell me that
(23:53):
for a woman in leadership, youneed to be balanced, you need to
be assertive yet nurturingright, you need to be confident
but not overly aggressive.
You need to be capable but alsoyou know nice.
So I got thinking about thatand I felt like this is really a
(24:15):
double standard, and I even ranacross the Harvard Business
Review article at the time.
It was called the double bind,and women are expected to have
all these balancedcharacteristics and you know,
people don't ask if well, wasthe man nice?
Was he too assertive or tooaggressive, and is he mentoring
(24:36):
and is he developing people andthings you know?
Yet women are expected to dothat and at first it really
bothered me, but the more Irealized you know what these are
the characteristics of reallygreat leaders, no matter if
they're men or women.
And so I just continue to tryto hone and drive and improve my
leadership skills across thespectrum and to be balanced and
(25:00):
be authentic, because you gettripped up if you try to be
somebody else and someone you'renot.
I think that's the biggesttakeaway as I've evolved in my
career that it's not a man andmale-female thing, it's are you
a great leader or not?
And how are you honing thosecapabilities and are you being
authentic?
Ted Stank (25:20):
Yeah, I know, in 2024 , certainly what you described
as that CEO saying to you iswhat I would want my leadership
to be.
I would hope that the days ofthe Theory X screaming at people
to get work done andthreatening to fire them other
than maybe if you're in aprivate company, I'll say I
doubt Elon Musk is going tolisten to our podcast.
(25:42):
So maybe somebody like ElonMusk, but I would hope that that
kind of a leader is notpromoted to senior leadership
levels.
Although you read in theheadlines all the time people
that are in positions,particularly in certain
industries that makes youscratch your head and say people
that are in positions,particularly in certain
industries.
Tom Goldsby (25:57):
That makes you scratch your head and say, how
did they get here?
But I love that notion ofauthenticity and I think
integrity that goes right there,hand in hand, and I think
that's great advice for all ofus is to be our authentic selves
.
And you know, so often I'vefound myself wondering what
should I do in a situation, andthat's as opposed to what do
others expect me to do in thatsituation?
(26:19):
Right, and I usually find out.
If I can answer that firstquestion, I'll be okay.
Right, it's my authentic selfcoming forward.
And how do you work with othersin your organization?
Then, again, as you've become amore senior leader in the
organization, you now have thatopportunity to mentor others and
to bring people into yourorganization, and it's probably
(26:42):
a very sizable procurementorganization that you have there
at SCJ.
Can you talk a little bit abouthow you work with others now
that you find yourself in thatsenior leadership role and how
you empower others?
Martha Buffington (26:54):
Sure, tom, it's definitely something that's
important as a leader is toempower others and help them
develop.
And when I think back to sortof the hardest transitions in my
career, it was that transitionfrom either individual
contributor to manager or frommanager to leader.
And those transition points.
(27:14):
When you're in them, sometimesyou don't know you're in them
and you don't realize why am Ihaving the hardest time making
the jump Right At this point inmy career.
I've been successful all along.
Why can I not make that jump tothe next level and become a
people manager?
Or why can't I make that jumpto more of the C-suite,
(27:35):
executive-ish kind of roles?
So realize first of all, thoseare big transition points and I
try to help coach and mentor myteam through those transition
points.
And once you realize you're inthat transition point and once
you realize that the skills youuse to get you here are not the
skills that will be usefulgetting you there.
(27:56):
You use to get you here are notthe skills that will be useful
getting you there, then you'reopen to some self-reflection and
some development and growth andcoaching.
And so that's when I givepeople articles, I suggest books
, I tell them some of myexperiences and I help coach
them through these transitionpoints.
So I think that as long as yourealize that you're going
(28:20):
through them and you're open togrowing because I do see people
get stuck I see that they're sogood at what they do in their
current role they cannot be opento changing and behaving in new
ways for the next level ofleadership.
Ted Stank (28:36):
You know, martha, this strikes me as SCJ has been
one of the great partnercompanies that over the years
has sent a number of your risingleaders to our executive MBA
program in global supply chain,and the specific aim of that
program is to help people makethat transition from functional
leadership to higher levelbusiness leadership.
(28:57):
And at the end of this one yearprocess we always ask them on
the last day what is one of thebiggest things you've learned?
And almost universally studentswill say first of all it's
financial skills and gettingreally adept at being
comfortable with financials.
But the other thing they say isthey have been drinking from
the fire hose so much over theyear trying to keep their job
(29:18):
going and keep up with thisrigorous MBA program that they
had to learn to delegate andempower their teams more.
And lo and behold, when they goaway for nine days, they're
currently our current year groupis currently in Ho Chi Minh
City in Vietnam for the nextnine days is currently in Ho Chi
Minh City in Vietnam for thenext nine days, and business
(29:40):
goes on right and you expectthem to be able to continue to
meet when the ball comes in theair and it's their teams doing
it, and they all expresspositive surprise that their
teams were able to handle thingswell.
Any comments on that?
Martha Buffington (29:53):
That's a great example, and you're right,
because when you're anindividual contributor, you are
trying to be driven yourselfwith your own accomplishments,
and that mindset is hard tobreak because now you've got to
delegate to people and havesuccess through other people,
(30:15):
and you're doing this for thesuccess of the business, not for
your own personal career growth.
So that's a really importantmindset shift to make, and it's
you're there for the company,you're there to drive results
for the company, and when you'rein a management role, you have
to have broader impact acrossthe business.
(30:38):
And so you've got to empoweryour team.
You've got to have people theright people on your team who
know what the vision is, theobjective, they know their roles
and they're self-motivated toget out and accomplish what they
need to accomplish.
Delegating just feels verytactical or transactional.
(30:59):
So I suggest that people shouldreally think about empowerment
more than delegating.
I mean it's your role, then, toremove barriers for them, to
help develop them, give themexposure, give them coaching and
then let them succeed.
And you know, eventually that'sgoing to give you way more
personal satisfaction than youachieving greatness on a project
(31:23):
you were running yourself inthe past, once you become a
leader of people and you'regiving back to helping people's
careers advance, then it's muchmore fulfilling, even.
Ted Stank (31:36):
I love that delineation between empowerment
and delegation.
That's great.
I'm going to use that goingforward.
Tom Goldsby (31:42):
Hey, I think it'd be a mistake if we didn't give
Martha a chance to opine alittle bit herself on the field
and Ted and I had that openingstanza there.
And, martha, I think you'relistening in on some of the
things that we're seeing.
I'm curious about things thatyou're paying attention to as
the role of a chief procurementofficer for a major consumer
(32:03):
goods company.
What are some of the thingsyou're really paying attention
to and maybe a little bitsensitive to what's going on in
the future?
Martha Buffington (32:11):
Well, you mentioned a lot of them.
One is really the broad themeof risk, whether it's
transportation risk and railstrikes or port strikes or Red
Sea crisis.
Transportation is one kind ofrisk.
Tariffs are another kind ofrisk.
Regulatory risks are another,especially in Europe, putting in
a lot of Green New Deal thingsthat are regulating chemicals
(32:35):
and a lot of sustainabilityrequirements are coming into
play.
You know chemicals and a lot ofsustainability requirements are
coming into play, so risk isvery important to me.
It's something I look at a lotAlso, just the regular economic.
You know supply, demand driversgoing on.
You know we're a home cleaningproducts company generally, and
(32:56):
so we're buying a lot ofchemicals and packaging and all
of those industries have theirown unique dynamics and so
really truly understanding themand getting underneath the real
drivers, the cost drivers, isvery important, and forming
those strong supplierrelationships so that we have
supply continuity is alsoimportant.
(33:18):
That's the blocking and tacklingof procurement.
And then, on top of that is howdo you build capability of your
talent and how do you get thesenew digital tools to make
people more efficient andeffective?
Because you're always going toneed people to do procurement,
of course, but I want themspending their time on the
intellectual and the strategic,the collaborative, the curious
(33:42):
things that they should be doingto drive our business forward,
not the blocking and tackling ofprocurement, not the making
sure they file the contract onthe right data, the right
insights, the right should costmodels, the right market
intelligence to make really gooddecisions for the company.
(34:04):
So digital talent, development,risk and market dynamics, I'd
say, are the big themes that I'mlooking at.
Tom Goldsby (34:14):
That's a good rundown and that just occurs to
me.
Those are the things that weneed to be bringing to our
curriculum in full force, right?
I think we're doing a good jobacross many of those, but it's
always great to hear from thelikes of Martha to underscore
all that.
Ted Stank (34:27):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Martha, we want to be veryrespectful of your time.
We know you got a lot going onhere.
It is Monday morning inparticular, so you're coming
into all the new things thathave piled up over the weekend,
I'm sure.
Thanks so much for being withus.
We really enjoy our time.
Hopefully see you at the nextadvisory board meeting in
Knoxville in August.
And with that let's wrap upthis episode.
(34:50):
Tom, you got any partingcomments?
Tom Goldsby (34:52):
Again good to be back together, and we've got a
great summer of podcastrecording in store.
We're keen to get other seniorleaders like Martha, as well as
other excellent voices from ourfield, and so just want to tease
that we've got a great summerahead.
We're already starting to bookfor fall, so we've got a good,
(35:13):
robust roster of guests comingup, some perhaps that you've
heard of and others that youhaven't.
So it's going to be really funto unveil those sessions for you
, and we're just getting readyto have graduation here at Rocky
Top, so we're going to besending a whole new batch of UT
alums out in the world, and Ialways implore them to use that
knowledge for good, not evil,and so we're hopeful that
(35:34):
they're going to do just that.
But an exciting time here atRocky Top.
Martha Buffington (35:37):
Great to talk to you, Paul.
Thanks for having me today.
Tom Goldsby (35:44):
Thank you, Martha.
With that, we'll go ahead andput a wrap on this episode and
just remind folks that you canreach us here at the University
of Tennessee Global Supply ChainInstitute at gsciutkedu.
Until next time.
Introduction (35:53):
Thanks for tuning in to Tennessee on Supply Chain
Management.
If you enjoyed the episode,subscribe today on your favorite
listening platform to get allof our episodes as soon as they
drop, and don't forget to take amoment to leave us a rating.
Have any questions, thoughts orfeedback?
We'd love to hear from ourlisteners.
Email us at gsci at utkedu.
Join us next time as wecontinue pulling back the
(36:16):
curtain on the world of supplychain, educating and
entertaining you along the way.
Until then, listeners.
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