S3E12: Shaping Performance, Culture, and Supply Chain Planning with Former P&G Executive Andrew Byer
September 18, 2025 • 35 mins
For the final episode of Season 3, co-hosts Ted Stank and Tom Goldsby spoke with supply chain consultant and former Procter & Gamble senior director Andrew Byer to explore how people, culture, and technology intersect to shape resilient supply chains.
Byer shares lessons from his long career at Procter & Gamble, where he supported global operations for health, hygiene, and cleaning products. He discusses how licensing, supply chain planning, and culture building are critical levers for performance, and why growing talent from within remains essential. The conversation also touches on how machine learning and automation are shaping new approaches to work.
Plus, Ted and Tom cover the latest headlines: the Supreme Court’s upcoming case on the legality of Trump’s tariffs, the end of the “de minimis” loophole for online orders, changes to EV tax credits, and new data on consumer prices and jobless claims.
The episode was recorded virtually on September 11, 2025.
Related links:
- Supreme Court to hear Trump’s tariff legality case in November
- ‘De minimis’ loophole is ending; here’s what it means for online orders
- EV tax credit ends soon, but it's still as complicated as ever: What to know
- Consumer prices rose at annual rate of 2.9% in August, as weekly jobless claims jump
- Download our latest white papers from UT experts on returns management and reshoring manufacturing.
- Learn about UT’s new master’s degree in global supply chain management
- Save the date for the fall Supply Chain Forum, November 4–6 in Knoxville
- Become a Supply Chain Forum partner
- Subscribe to GSCI’s monthly newsletter
- Read the latest news and insights from GSCI
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro & Outro (00:00):
Welcome to the Tennessee on Supply Chain
Management podcast.
Listen in as co-hosts Ted Stankand Tom Goldsby set sail into
the world of end-to-end supplychain management, diving deep
into today's most relevantbusiness topics.
They'll share insights andpressing industry issues and
tackle the challenges keepingsupply chain professionals up at
night.
If you're enjoying the ride,download and subscribe to
(00:22):
Tennessee on Supply ChainManagement on your favorite
podcast platform now.
Ted Stank (00:28):
Hey everybody, it's Ted Stank here with Tennessee on
Supply Chain Management.
We've got some milestones totalk to you about.
Today.
We're told this is our 51stepisode.
We started back in October 2021, and this is actually the end
of our third season, 2021.
And this is actually the end ofour third season.
I'm not sure how we werecounting seasons, but the first
(00:48):
season, I think, went on foreverbefore somebody told us to shut
up and stop.
This is the end of our thirdseason.
12th episode of our thirdseason.
We're going to do an extraepisode at CSCMP live next month
in Washington DC and then we'llkick off season four live at
our Fall Forum November 4ththrough 6th.
As always, I'm here with mygood friend, tom Goldsby and a
(01:09):
great guest, andrew Byers.
Tom Goldsby (01:11):
Tom, hey, it's great to be, I guess, wrapping
up Season 3.
Really excited that, I think wegot renewed, we got re-upped
for Season 4, so that's reallyexciting too, and really excited
about our guest today, andrewByyer, 39-year veteran of
Procter Gamble, who's goneindependent since retiring.
What was that a little morethan a year ago, andrew, just
(01:33):
about a year and a half ago?
Yeah, fantastic.
Well, we're really pleased thatyou've decided to spend some of
that retirement time with ushere on Rocky Top and plugging
into some different things thatwe do here on Rocky Top and
plugging into some differentthings that we do.
But we certainly want to hearabout some of the interesting
things you did back at P&G andas well as what you're up to now
.
Andrew Byer (01:50):
Absolutely.
You know, I look back.
I had a phenomenal career,hired off campus by P&G.
I had the chance to work acrossthe supply chain.
You know, customer facing jobs,supplier facing jobs, working
with manufacturing, being thesupply chain leader for a
business.
I had the opportunitytransportation, warehousing, but
also to live and work inmultiple regions of the world
(02:12):
and to see supply chains in adifferent way.
And what I'm doing now isreally I want to keep learning
and growing and I want to findways to give back because you
know, over 39 years youaccumulate a lot of knowledge.
Tom Goldsby (02:24):
Yeah for sure, and again with such a great company,
procter Gamble again, year in,year out, recognized as among
the best of the best.
And your final gig at P&G, Ithink, is a particularly
interesting one, and so we'regoing to save that for maybe a
little bit later when we havesome one-on-one time with you.
But, ted, why don't we kind ofcatch up on some news and notes
(02:50):
and what's going on in the worldof supply chain?
Very much front of mind is theTrump tariffs are heading to the
Supreme Court, so there was asuccessful appeal of the
executive order approach totariffs and a lot of people are
watching, waiting to see wherethat one goes.
Ted Stank (03:00):
Yeah, of course they're not going to rule on
that until November, so theyhave time to do their research.
But the immediate effect ofthat is yet more uncertainty,
because I think we had justabout started to wrap our heads
around tariffs and how we weregoing to deal with it, and now
those plans, potentially, are upin the air.
So I'm sure like to getAndrew's take on this too.
I'm sure most companies aresaying, hey, hold the line,
(03:23):
because if the Supreme Courtrules against those tariffs and
all bets are off, then we needto take a totally different
approach than we were thinkingabout if tariffs had gone into
effect.
Andrew Byer (03:33):
You know, ted, I would just tell you, I think
companies are looking for theirsupply chain people to do what
they're good at doing, which isconverting that uncertainty to
scenarios.
What are the valid options?
Can you create a digital twinto play out if it goes this way,
if it goes that way, becauseit's just uncertainty, but what
you're going to do and how youmake decisions will be what
supply chain people can helpwith.
Tom Goldsby (03:54):
Yeah, I'd agree with that.
There's a lot of speculationthat the executive order
approach to tariffs is sustained.
My sense is that Trump is goingto continue to double down on
them, keep what tariffs are inplace and then, frankly, when
the mood strikes him to changeor increase or, dare I say,
remove a tariff, that'llprobably happen.
However, it is becoming clearthat tariffs are not gone, even
(04:19):
if the Supreme Court were tostrike them down.
It's just that they'd have tobe approached maybe in a more
judicious, justified manner.
So it might take a little bitmore time to make the arguments
for installing tariffs and,again, it may be that some of
them don't quite stick too.
Ted Stank (04:35):
I mean, I got to believe that by the end of the
day, when everything comes outin the wash, we're still going
to move to some kind of tariffregime where there's like an
average of 15 percent across theboard on different things.
So I have some kind of mixedfeelings about that.
I mean, I do believe thatthere's been a bit of a slanted
table in trade for some decades,so it'll be interesting to see
(04:56):
how this all works out.
Tom Goldsby (04:58):
Well, something that's not all too unrelated
from tariffs is the de minimisloophole that got removed.
Even the Biden administrationwas talking about yanking that
loophole and it didn't happenduring the course of his term.
But Trump did act upon it.
I think it was threatened and Ithink it got implemented such
that those business to consumerretailers, particularly those in
(05:19):
China, the Shein's, the Taimusof the world, but also, you know
, US-based companies like Amazon, eBay, Etsy, that routinely
ship individual parcels into thecountry From.
My sense is that that businesshas virtually dried up by virtue
of that loophole being closed.
Anything valued under $800 usedto be able to freely come into
(05:40):
the US with very little customscrutiny, and you know the
argumentation there was that itwasn't just fashion goods coming
in, it was also drugs,narcotics and other
paraphernalia and such.
So I think DC Velocity reportedthat inbound US postal
shipments have dropped by 80percent and the likes of DHL
have stopped accepting US boundB2C shipments.
(06:01):
So a lot of interesting stufftaking place in that space.
C shipments so a lot ofinteresting stuff taking place
in that space.
Ted Stank (06:06):
Yeah, you know, a number of different nations'
postal services have suspendedoperations into the US because
they don't know how to deal withthe customs charges on these
products.
So again another interestingthing to shake out.
I mean this is a parcelbusiness but certainly in the
consumer realm big business.
Tom Goldsby (06:24):
Yeah, I've been kind of taking an informal
survey of my students who reallyyou know, this is a parcel
business but certainly in theconsumer realm, big business.
Yeah, I've been kind of takingan informal survey of my
students who really you knowvery much of the target market.
You know the TikTok audiencethat very much is influenced by
influencers as well as perhapsinfluencing peers, and the idea
of that $10 T-shirt now costingyou know $210 by the time you
add a $200 flat fee, which againsome things still need to get
(06:47):
sorted out, but it does seemlike that market could dry up.
On other regulatory fronts, alot of folks are watching the
electric vehicle incentives.
The federal clean vehicle taxcredit is going to run its
course at the end of this month,up to $7,500 on qualified
vehicles going away, and theprevious administration made a
(07:09):
lot of big bets.
Inflation Reduction Act broughtthose incentives into being and
a whole host of the big OEMautomakers making big bets and
building those EV plants and thebattery plants as well, some of
those bets being placed righthere in Tennessee, particularly
over in West Tennessee, withFord's big play in Memphis.
(07:31):
Hey, I know you bought a carrecently but you decided to go
hybrid, not fully EV.
Yeah, and.
Ted Stank (07:37):
I didn't go fully EV.
I traveled too many miles onthe highway to go fully EV.
I'd be interested one day indoing it, but again, so much
uncertainty.
Related to this, tom, is theice raid on the Hyundai plant in
Georgia last week.
That's going to be an EV plantand an associated LG battery
plant alongside it.
There's so much uncertaintybetween trade policy, support of
(08:03):
green technology, immigrationpolicy.
Man, we need those digitaltwins, andrew.
There's so many levers, so manyvariables at play right now
that it's just really hard topredict how any of this works
out.
Andrew Byer (08:18):
It's almost like the systems and the supply chain
, decision making can't keep upwith the legislation, which is
almost the opposite of the wayit's always been Right.
Ted Stank (08:27):
We're always pushing right to get this stuff passed,
and now it just happens onweekly, certainly sometimes a
daily basis, and you know theadministration feels like they
have a two year window to reallyimplement a lot of their
policies before the midtermelections, and so I think there
is a big rush on to get as muchchange as possible in the first
(08:48):
two years.
Certainly in those firsthundred days we're a whirlwind.
Tom Goldsby (08:51):
Yeah, they're going by fast, for sure, and so so
many of these overtures, as youpoint out, affecting the supply
chain.
It's why sometimes I have toremind myself this is a supply
chain podcast, right?
Because we're talking aboutglobal matters and big economics
and geopolitics.
Ted Stank (09:06):
Ultimately, Speaking of that, tom, you know the
numbers are starting to come out.
These are like laggingindicators of what's going on,
but inflation numbers came outtoday showed that inflation was
heating up I think 2.9% orsomething like that.
And then the latest jobs reportfrom last week was that only
22,000 jobs were created inAugust and the Bureau of Labor
(09:38):
Statistics downgraded the yearending in March with a reduction
of I think it was 911,000 jobs.
So some really interestinglagging economic data.
Lagging economic data.
The thing that really surprisedme was that 911,000 jobs year
end March, because that extendedinto the previous
administration as well.
Tom Goldsby (09:52):
Yeah, so things weren't maybe as hot as they
were portrayed to be at thattime.
But hey, I'm excited to bringAndrew into the full
conversation and get a deepersense of his background and hear
about those 39 years at P&G andwhat he's been up to in the
year and a half since.
But I teased that his final gigat P&G was an interesting one.
(10:15):
He retired as Senior DirectorSupply Chain Capability and
Know-How Licensing and we'regoing to want to find out what
exactly that meant.
But we're also keen to pointout that Andrew's not only a
guest on today's podcast, buthe's a frequent listener.
Andrew Byer (10:32):
Is that right?
Absolutely.
I'm never doing yard workwithout a podcast on, and you
guys?
So I associate this with grimeand sweat.
Ted Stank (10:40):
That's good.
That's good for a supply chainpodcast.
That's very fitting Gritty.
That might be our tagline.
Actually Tennessee on supplychain management podcast, grind
and sweat.
Tom Goldsby (10:51):
I like it.
We need that.
Well, hey again, andrew, Ipromise we'll get to that final
gig.
I think our listeners will bereally interested in what you're
up to.
But just kind of looking backat 39 years with the company,
again one of the foremost, mostcapable supply chain companies
on the planet, cpg industry,which is full of change and
(11:14):
challenge, what are just some ofthe big lessons maybe that you
take away?
And when you have a opportunitylike this one to share bits of
wisdom, what do you kind of lookback upon and say, wow, that
was pretty cool.
Andrew Byer (11:26):
Yeah, especially since you have the opportunity
to interact with a lot ofstudents who are trying to wrap
their minds around what thesupply chain industry and a
profession could look like.
As I look back, the thing thatsticks out is we are in the
business of supply and it's likea catchphrase, because
everything you do in the supplychain is in support of what your
business or your customer needs.
It's not about running a supplychain well in isolation.
(11:49):
It's how well the supply chainsupports the business.
You win or lose as a business,right.
So people are going andthinking, oh, I'll be an
engineer, I'll be inmanufacturing, I'll run a
warehouse.
Those things are done tosupport your business, right.
The other thing I wouldprobably say that I always took
away work is a process and, youknow, include tools like
technology, but your resultscome from your people and you
(12:13):
always have to think about howdo I get my people to be able to
perform at their peak?
Ted Stank (12:18):
You know, andrew, I'm glad you brought up the fact
that really supply chains arethere to support the business.
I've heard Tom say it in class,I've said it myself many times
in class, that story about theProcter Gamble, two moments of
aha right the aha moment thatsomething is on the shelf and
then the aha moment when you getthe product home and consume it
.
And the second aha neverhappens if the first aha isn't
(12:40):
done really well.
And I think that really ties inincredibly well to our
perspective at Tennessee onsupply chain management right,
it's all about what you do forthe customer.
Andrew Byer (12:50):
And you know we need to keep evolving, and we
actually added a third moment ofaha or moment of truth, which
is when they search for youonline.
Tom Goldsby (12:58):
Precedes Exactly yeah.
Andrew Byer (13:01):
When we first came up with ahas, there wasn't so
much Right.
Ted Stank (13:05):
I mean, I've experienced that as a consumer.
You know you see somethingthat's flashy and you want to
find it, and you try to get tothe website and it's impossible
to access a product.
Andrew Byer (13:15):
Or if you're not in stock, you don't show.
Tom Goldsby (13:16):
Yeah, Well that's really cool and you know you had
your entire career at ProcterGamble from, an interesting
start that you actually sharedwith Ted and me.
Before we hit the record buttonwe got to call it out.
You did your collegiateschooling in the state of
Tennessee, but it wasn't here onRocky Top.
Andrew Byer (13:36):
That's right.
I actually went to Vanderbilton a full ride for sports
writing, so I was not headed inthe supply chain direction when
I went to college.
You know, internships are awonderful thing.
They can tell you what youmight like and when I interned
as a sports writer I found it.
When you take what your fun andyour passion is and you make it
your job, sometimes it doesn'twork out.
(13:57):
It's interesting.
Yeah, you're going to aballpark and it's a job.
It's not fun.
How did you decide on supplychain?
There was a little serendipitythere.
Ted P&G at the time was therecruiting profile, was leaders.
Today it's all you know,engineers and industrial data
scientists and things like that.
But at the time they looked atleadership profiles.
(14:17):
So I entered the supply chainwith a English lit degree
fitting sports writing, with ahard hitting ancient Greek and
Roman history minor.
But if you look at the historyof P&G, several of our CEOs have
this type of academicbackground.
And what were some?
Tom Goldsby (14:34):
of those gigs that you took on, what was your
starting role?
Andrew Byer (14:38):
So I entered into the supply chain in order
management and transportationwarehousing.
You know, transportationpurchasing for the Northeast.
I had an interestingresponsibility the distribution
of P&G products to the USmilitary.
And what was interesting aboutthat is it wasn't large volume
Think about the commissaries andthe bases it was across all P&G
(15:01):
categories.
And one thing that'sinteresting, you know you could
say, oh, you work 39 years atP&G.
It's just one company.
Every different supply chainhas its own uniquenesses, right,
you know, our duty business haslots of SKUs.
Paper businesses have to run athigh tight capacity because of
the cost of equipment, thingslike that.
Every business is different,has unique variabilities, and I
(15:23):
got to see it early in my careerbecause I was managing our
distribution to military bases.
Ted Stank (15:29):
You know, what really intrigues me, andrew, is your
comment about how you enteredP&G because of recruiting for
leadership and leaders and Iknow one of your big themes has
been people.
We talk a lot about technologytoday, how AI is going to take
over the world and we're notgoing to have people working in
supply chains anymore because AIis going to take their jobs.
(15:52):
Really interested to get yourtake on the importance of people
in the supply chain and therole of the interaction between
people and technology.
Andrew Byer (16:03):
Yeah, I'm a big subscriber and I'll paraphrase
Jensen Huang, the NVIDIA CEO.
But AI is not likely to takepeople's jobs.
It's the people who use AI wellwho are going to take the jobs.
Right, If the best example, Ted, that I could encapsulate my
learning on AI.
First of all, AI is not amonolith.
There are many different typesof AI.
Right, it's not a synonym forchat, GPT, but we had a problem.
(16:28):
We saw machine learning as anopportunity.
No-transcript, whatever Machinelearning can do that in minutes
(17:21):
and do it with high accuracy.
And we liked the crystal boxnature where it would say most
of these items have the sameparameter settings, but there's
one item that has one differentout of all these.
It's the anomaly Is it right oris it wrong?
And the planner would just sayyes, no, and the machine
learning model would learn.
(17:41):
It could then actually populatethings.
But it took a problem wecouldn't solve.
It took work people hated to doand knew they weren't doing
well, and it fixed it.
So it's funny work people hatedto do and knew they weren't
doing well, and it fixed it.
So it's funny the technologywas the same and the work was
very similar, but on one hand,forcing it to the organization.
On the other hand, it beingpulled in by the organization
made all the difference.
Ted Stank (18:01):
Yeah, I've had stories of friends of mine out
in the industry who have triedto gamify it with their teams to
say, you know what are thethings you hate doing most?
And we see how we can make MLhelp us and be more productive.
And initially it's like, oh,you're trying to take our jobs
away, but then all of a sudden,somebody comes up with an idea
that automates something thatthey hated doing and took
(18:21):
forever and didn't do well, andthen people start getting on
board.
Man, I'm totally with you that.
I think AI is going to besomething that's a ground up
effort instead of a top downeffort, that, as people get more
experience with using differentapplications of it, that's
where we're going to see realinnovation.
Tom Goldsby (18:40):
Yeah, I think so.
And, by the way, ted, I applaudYou're becoming something of a
super user of AI within our shopand you're really helping to
bring the likes of myself along.
Ted Stank (18:52):
Yeah, I decided a couple of years ago that I am an
old dog and I needed to learnsome new tricks, and so I
decided two summers ago toreally dive into it and just
figure out how it could justhelp me in my everyday life.
Forget about, you know, I canread about all kinds of supply
chain applications, but just howit could work for me in my life
to help me get through a lot ofthe drudgery.
(19:15):
You know, one of the thingspeople I don't think really
understand is that when you're aprofessor, even when you rise
high like Tom and I are in ourorganization we don't have a lot
of administrative support.
We do everything ourselves.
If we're going to change ourlesson plans, it's us doing the
PowerPoints and creating the,you know, the imagery and
everything, and that'snon-value-added work.
(19:36):
Right, the idea behind thelesson is important, but putting
it together is not.
But we don't have anybody to dothat for us, and tools like
this are so useful when I tellpeople the use case.
Andrew Byer (19:47):
The tools change frequently.
The use cases keep developing.
Ted Stank (19:53):
It's keep watching the space.
Yeah, I mean, I've been doingthis for 35 years, andrew, and a
lot of the conceptual thingsthat we talk about in the supply
chain haven't changed in 35years.
It's the tools that change allthe time.
If you were on with us sevenyears ago, we'd be talking about
blockchain right now.
Tom Goldsby (20:08):
What would we be saying, though?
Ted Stank (20:10):
But anyway it's going to do everything.
World hunger I predict a globalpandemic coming up.
That blockchain is going tosolve.
Tom Goldsby (20:18):
Well, hey, speaking of things like pandemic and the
need to evolve and adapt, yeah,I'd just be really curious,
andrew, the lessons that youlearned.
I don't know what role you werefulfilling, say, exactly five,
five and a half years ago, oreven which business unit you
were supporting at that time,but I'd just be curious about
what were some of the biglessons that P&G took away from
(20:41):
the COVID experience thatperhaps are shedding some light
and proving helpful innavigating the tumult and VUCA
world that we live in today.
Andrew Byer (20:51):
Gosh, there are so many vivid lessons.
You know we talked earlier howit seems like the supply chain
can't go fast enough to keep upwith legislative decisions
happening.
I was really impressed, almostshocked, by the speed that the
supply chain could respond.
In COVID, p&g doesn't typicallymake things that shield your
(21:12):
eyes and hand sanitizers we weremaking masks, hand sanitizers,
face shields like how quickly wecould get our equipment and our
employees because of howimportant it was.
The second thing we learned wehad some great examples where,
just because of laws indifferent countries, we had a
plant in one state in a countryand most of the management lived
(21:36):
in a different state.
Most of the technicians livedin the same state as the plant
and the plant was able to runbasically with no management and
run at decent rates.
People were not allowed tocross state lines in that
country.
Employees volunteered to stayat the plants because, remember,
p&g makes health, hygiene andcleaning products.
If you think about what wasstressed during the pandemic,
(21:57):
health, hygiene and cleaningpretty much tick all the boxes.
Plus, you know, the USmanufacturer on some really
clear overarching goals.
Everyone gets it from top tobottom how important it is.
(22:19):
You can move really fast.
Ted Stank (22:22):
Yeah, you know we're getting some distance between us
and COVID now, but I think oneday soon, people are going to
look back at COVID.
It's probably going to getslowed down because of the
political conversation aroundCOVID and everything, but I
think it is one of supplychain's great moments in history
.
Now we have partners ShawIndustries that shifted from
(22:43):
making standard flooring tomaking stuff for flexible
manufacturing facilities orhealthcare facilities.
Phillips Medical Products werehelping hospitals put together
tent cities with the ability todo monitoring and stuff out in
the parking lot.
It was really an amazing time.
We have Jim Capone from Pfizerthat's talked about the journey
(23:05):
from when the CEO called themall in and said they were going
to make 100 million COVIDvaccines I can't remember how
many in like six months whennothing had ever been attempted
like that before.
What an just an incrediblestory.
Tom Goldsby (23:19):
Yeah, no, it's amazing, and I think you're
right that we need to kind ofreflect and think about how we
can leverage those capabilities.
And that's, I think, a perfectsegue to that last post you held
at Procter Gamble.
Andrew, that I've been teasingrepetitively.
Let's get into that.
As senior director, supplychain, capability and know-how,
(23:40):
licensing and, again, p&g isregarded as among the best of
the best at supply chain, andcorrect me if I'm wrong, but
your gig was to help othercompanies try to emulate the P&G
way Not competitors, mind you,but going outside the CPG
industry and those head-to-headcompetitors.
And I'm curious where you tookthat know-how, knowledge and how
(24:01):
that all worked.
Andrew Byer (24:02):
There were some CPG companies, like in food and
beverage, that weren't competingwith P&G.
But if you're looking toimprove your organization's
results, what we used to say iswe can help accelerate and
de-risk your transformation.
We run a supply chain.
We've already done it.
We're licensing our know-how.
This is not like technology andstuff, but it's how do you get
your employees to be clear onwhat the work is, trained,
(24:24):
skilled and qualified to be ableto do the work and then execute
it.
Like that, stuff can take youforever.
If you've got a blueprint thatworks, you can go so much faster
and you can avoid things thatdon't work because, okay, we
tried this and it didn't work,so this, we have a proven
standard.
So it was a lot of fun assomebody who's fascinated with
(24:45):
supply chains.
What I also liked is I got tolook under the hood in lots of
different industries outside ofCPG.
Tom Goldsby (24:52):
Yeah, and then I'm just curious how far and wide
could you take the principle inpractice?
Andrew Byer (24:57):
Oh my gosh.
Oil and gas, dairy farm andlife sciences, heavy industries,
even service companies.
I remember talking to atelephone company.
These are companies who need toget a better result out of
their organization and arelooking at is it just simply
faster to go with somethingproven versus try and develop it
in-house?
Ted Stank (25:17):
I love that, andrew, because sometimes we'll get
challenged that these conceptsthat we teach in class,
especially the executive classes, like, well, that doesn't apply
in my company or my industrybecause, fill in the blank, and
that is true, probably at theground level, but at a certain
level these concepts areuniversal.
Frankly, they come down topeople.
Andrew Byer (25:38):
Earlier, I told you work as a process.
Results come from people.
This almost felt to me like aformula.
First, we would define thestandard work.
I mean at a granular,actionable level, clear.
It's documented, you know theinputs and the outputs, who does
what in what sequence.
And, most importantly, thestandard is proven to deliver
the results you need.
When you follow it right, thenit's valid.
(25:59):
Then, okay, what are the skillspeople need to do this work?
What is the training to providethose skills?
What's the qualification tomake sure they actually picked
up the skills?
And then the final thing is isthe work process congruent with
any tools?
But once you have that, you goto your organization and you,
like you know what to do, youknow how to do it.
(26:20):
Here is what you're accountablefor.
Go, surprise us with theresults, Because when you
empower them, when you give themthe capabilities, the tools
they need, they will alwayssurprise you with the results
they can deliver.
And you know, hold youroperations, your frontline
people, accountable for results.
Make them equipment owners,make them system owners.
That's really what we werelicensing.
(26:43):
How do you do that in anorganization so it's sustainable
In your experience?
Ted Stank (26:47):
across all these different industries.
What is the single thing thatyou found was the biggest?
I'll call it a weakness, maybecall it a challenge that
companies struggled with thatstopped them from being a P&G.
Andrew Byer (27:00):
I think culture probably is the first thing that
comes to mind.
P&g is grow from within, so wehave a pretty typical and very
defined culture.
I think having management clear, your job is to get results
through the frontline people,not to do the work yourself.
You know you were just talkingabout, hey, high level
professors, but we still do ourown stuff.
I mean, the frontline peoplemake the product.
(27:20):
The frontline people plan theshipments and plan the materials
and the production.
How do you get those peopleaccountable?
And management job is helpingthem deliver the results,
removing the hard obstacles,making sure they have the
training needed, not inspecting,not overmanaging.
Getting that culture right isprobably the biggest difference
I saw.
Ted Stank (27:41):
Yeah, as the old saying right, culture eats
strategy.
I'm not an organizationalbehavioralist but I would be
really interested to know of howmany people that start at P&G
end at P&G in their career, andI think that speaks to culture.
I mean, there's a lot of AndrewByers out there that I've
talked to that have spent theirentire career at P&G.
I mean, we know and love MikeBurnett.
(28:02):
Mike Burnett is a P&G guyExactly.
Andrew Byer (28:06):
I don't have an answer for you on what the
statistic is.
I can just tell you when Iretired with 39 years, it was
not hard to find people withgreater tenure.
Yeah, I can remember atechnician retiring with north
of 50 years.
Ted Stank (28:18):
And that, to me, that just speaks volumes about
culture.
Tom Goldsby (28:21):
Yeah, yeah, and I think also what I hear from P&G
those lifers is that you knowthey're supported.
So many different opportunitiesto grow and challenge
themselves and move frombusiness unit to business unit,
role to role and I think thatreally helps to contribute.
Again goes back to the culture.
But you know one area that,andrew, I know you're very
passionate about and you'veactually been very helpful with
(28:43):
us here at UT as we have doubleddown in the area of supply
chain planning and you haveplugged in, been so generous
with what we're doing in SupplyChain Planning Academy and kind
of revising some of ourcurriculum up and down the board
.
What is it about planning?
It seems like we haven't usedthat word at all in the course
of our discussions so far andfor students that can remember,
(29:05):
I'd like to go back to thatinfamous Allen Iverson interview
, right the locker roominterview, where he was talking
about practice.
We ain't talking about the game, we're talking about practice.
Well, with planning, we're nottalking about source, make,
deliver, we're talking aboutplanning.
And so what is it that's kindof special in your mind about
planning?
And how do the best companieslike the P&G of the world really
(29:28):
create advantage throughadvanced planning techniques?
Andrew Byer (29:32):
Sure you know what's unique or important about
planning.
Remember, before I talked aboutbeing in the business of supply
.
With planning, you aretranslating what your business
needs out of the supply chaininto how will we get it done and
deliver what's expected of usright, the right time, the right
costs, the right quality, rightcash flow.
So it's creating the art of thepossible.
(29:55):
Out of this is the requirement.
How do you make it work?
And then there are times maybeyou can't make it work.
How do you surface the gap?
Surface it early and then workwith your business team to deal
with achieving your businessresults.
Another way and there's a lotof you know you're getting data
and synthesizing it, identifyingclosing gaps and then
(30:15):
ultimately making sure you knowyour leadership's plan whether
you call it S&OP or whatever isbeing delivered, or you're
coming back to them and helpingadjust the plan.
Ted Stank (30:25):
Certainly one of the things we found through our
Advanced Supply ChainCollaborative is I don't know if
we recognized it back in 2019when we created the
collaborative, which is ourapplied research arm the major
theme is that if we can doplanning better, we can do
everything all the operations insupply chain better, and yet
planning was kind of an area ofthe supply chain that had not
(30:46):
received at most companies, thefocus that you should receive.
I think that's changing that'schanging.
Tom Goldsby (30:57):
Another area in which you've been very
passionate in this early days ofyour retirement working with
startups, and looking at yourLinkedIn profile, I didn't
realize, actually, that you wereworking with so many young
organizations.
What's the draw for you to workwith these young enterprises
and what are you bringing to thetable for them?
Andrew Byer (31:10):
So you know, when I retired, being a very good P&G,
I set my goals.
One was to keep learning andgrowing.
The other was to give back andworking with startups.
I find it's a combination ofboth.
It's kind of like why I'veenjoyed like talking at the
Tennessee Supply Chain PlanningAcademy.
I love being connected tobright minds, talking about new
ideas or the potential to changethe landscape, and you know,
(31:33):
I've also found the lessons froma corporate behemoth right.
P&g is a really large company.
They're still applicable tosmall startups where I can count
the number of employees withone hand.
You know I was talking with onecompany and they were like
people are buying our productbut they're struggling to get
results, and it turns outadoption, the congruency of you
(31:55):
know of what is the job to bedone and how is it defined.
And then what I just took youthrough a few minutes ago, the
adoption with a startup andtheir customers is not really
the difference with large,established companies.
It's never about the tech, it'sabout the organization's
ability to adopt and use it todeliver value.
The same thing I would do at alarge company I can do with a
(32:15):
startup.
It's just they move so fast andit's a lot of fun.
Tom Goldsby (32:19):
Well, that's so cool.
It also seems to be a nicefollow-up to the gig that you
closed out your P&G career, kindof taking that capability and
know-how and taking it out intoother enterprises, and I imagine
they are benefiting immenselyfrom the experience.
Well, we're getting kind of thehook here from our producer, so
it's probably about time for usto wrap up.
(32:40):
But, ted, I know we've got someother tidbits that we want to
throw out before folks sign offfrom the podcast today.
Right?
Ted Stank (32:48):
Yeah, I mean I almost cut you off with Andrew's last
answer, tom, so that we couldsay, hey, if you're really
interested in Andrew's answer,tune in to the first episode of
season four.
But we don't want to makeAndrew have to come back to us
again, so we didn't do that.
But our next podcast will be alive podcast from CSCMP Edge in
(33:08):
National Harbor, dc, in earlyOctober, and then the first
episode of season four will takeplace live again at our UTK
Supply Chain Forum November 4ththrough 6th.
I think the actual date of thepodcast will be November 5th.
As always, people have ideas,thoughts, comments.
Ted, you're an idiot.
You should leave the show andlet Tom run it.
(33:30):
Send us an email at gsciutkedu.
Tom Goldsby (33:35):
My mom's not still sending that message, is she?
I told her to stop.
Well, I didn't want to let youknow.
And one other thing I want toplug While we're promoting
things again.
So much going on here at RockyTop, I'm really pleased that we
just released a couple of whitepapers in recent days, one being
the returns management whitepaper that I co-authored with
(33:55):
Hussein Abdul, our absolute rockstar in consumer returns, and
so that white paper is now outon the website and, again, those
are freely available.
Just give us your email addressand you can access not just
that white paper but a wholehost of others in the library
but a lot of really coolreadings out there.
But I want to make the worldaware of that one.
Ted Stank (34:16):
Andrew, thanks again for joining us.
Always great to talk to you.
Andrew Byer (34:20):
I couldn't pass up the opportunity to talk with two
supply chain luminaries.
Thank you so much, and so foreverybody out there that's
grinding and sweating.
Ted Stank (34:28):
We're going to sign off.
Tom Goldsby (34:30):
It's quite the picture in my head, but hey,
everyone, have a great start tofall.
Intro & Outro (34:41):
We look forward to connecting with you in season
four.
Stay tuned.
Thanks for tuning in toTennessee on Supply Chain
Management.
If you enjoyed the episode,subscribe today on your favorite
listening platform to get allof our episodes as soon as they
drop, and don't forget to take amoment to leave us a rating.
Have any questions, thoughts orfeedback?
We'd love to hear from ourlisteners.
Email us at gsci at utkedu.
(35:03):
Join us next time as wecontinue pulling back the
curtain on the world of supplychain, educating and
entertaining you along the way.
Until then, listeners.
Welcome to the Tennessee on Supply Chain
Management podcast.
Listen in as co-hosts Ted Stankand Tom Goldsby set sail into
the world of end-to-end supplychain management, diving deep
into today's most relevantbusiness topics.
They'll share insights andpressing industry issues and
tackle the challenges keepingsupply chain professionals up at
night.
If you're enjoying the ride,download and subscribe to
(00:22):
Tennessee on Supply ChainManagement on your favorite
podcast platform now.
Ted Stank (00:28):
Hey everybody, it's Ted Stank here with Tennessee on
Supply Chain Management.
We've got some milestones totalk to you about.
Today.
We're told this is our 51stepisode.
We started back in October 2021, and this is actually the end
of our third season, 2021.
And this is actually the end ofour third season.
I'm not sure how we werecounting seasons, but the first
(00:48):
season, I think, went on foreverbefore somebody told us to shut
up and stop.
This is the end of our thirdseason.
12th episode of our thirdseason.
We're going to do an extraepisode at CSCMP live next month
in Washington DC and then we'llkick off season four live at
our Fall Forum November 4ththrough 6th.
As always, I'm here with mygood friend, tom Goldsby and a
(01:09):
great guest, andrew Byers.
Tom Goldsby (01:11):
Tom, hey, it's great to be, I guess, wrapping
up Season 3.
Really excited that, I think wegot renewed, we got re-upped
for Season 4, so that's reallyexciting too, and really excited
about our guest today, andrewByyer, 39-year veteran of
Procter Gamble, who's goneindependent since retiring.
What was that a little morethan a year ago, andrew, just
(01:33):
about a year and a half ago?
Yeah, fantastic.
Well, we're really pleased thatyou've decided to spend some of
that retirement time with ushere on Rocky Top and plugging
into some different things thatwe do here on Rocky Top and
plugging into some differentthings that we do.
But we certainly want to hearabout some of the interesting
things you did back at P&G andas well as what you're up to now
.
Andrew Byer (01:50):
Absolutely.
You know, I look back.
I had a phenomenal career,hired off campus by P&G.
I had the chance to work acrossthe supply chain.
You know, customer facing jobs,supplier facing jobs, working
with manufacturing, being thesupply chain leader for a
business.
I had the opportunitytransportation, warehousing, but
also to live and work inmultiple regions of the world
(02:12):
and to see supply chains in adifferent way.
And what I'm doing now isreally I want to keep learning
and growing and I want to findways to give back because you
know, over 39 years youaccumulate a lot of knowledge.
Tom Goldsby (02:24):
Yeah for sure, and again with such a great company,
procter Gamble again, year in,year out, recognized as among
the best of the best.
And your final gig at P&G, Ithink, is a particularly
interesting one, and so we'regoing to save that for maybe a
little bit later when we havesome one-on-one time with you.
But, ted, why don't we kind ofcatch up on some news and notes
(02:50):
and what's going on in the worldof supply chain?
Very much front of mind is theTrump tariffs are heading to the
Supreme Court, so there was asuccessful appeal of the
executive order approach totariffs and a lot of people are
watching, waiting to see wherethat one goes.
Ted Stank (03:00):
Yeah, of course they're not going to rule on
that until November, so theyhave time to do their research.
But the immediate effect ofthat is yet more uncertainty,
because I think we had justabout started to wrap our heads
around tariffs and how we weregoing to deal with it, and now
those plans, potentially, are upin the air.
So I'm sure like to getAndrew's take on this too.
I'm sure most companies aresaying, hey, hold the line,
(03:23):
because if the Supreme Courtrules against those tariffs and
all bets are off, then we needto take a totally different
approach than we were thinkingabout if tariffs had gone into
effect.
Andrew Byer (03:33):
You know, ted, I would just tell you, I think
companies are looking for theirsupply chain people to do what
they're good at doing, which isconverting that uncertainty to
scenarios.
What are the valid options?
Can you create a digital twinto play out if it goes this way,
if it goes that way, becauseit's just uncertainty, but what
you're going to do and how youmake decisions will be what
supply chain people can helpwith.
Tom Goldsby (03:54):
Yeah, I'd agree with that.
There's a lot of speculationthat the executive order
approach to tariffs is sustained.
My sense is that Trump is goingto continue to double down on
them, keep what tariffs are inplace and then, frankly, when
the mood strikes him to changeor increase or, dare I say,
remove a tariff, that'llprobably happen.
However, it is becoming clearthat tariffs are not gone, even
(04:19):
if the Supreme Court were tostrike them down.
It's just that they'd have tobe approached maybe in a more
judicious, justified manner.
So it might take a little bitmore time to make the arguments
for installing tariffs and,again, it may be that some of
them don't quite stick too.
Ted Stank (04:35):
I mean, I got to believe that by the end of the
day, when everything comes outin the wash, we're still going
to move to some kind of tariffregime where there's like an
average of 15 percent across theboard on different things.
So I have some kind of mixedfeelings about that.
I mean, I do believe thatthere's been a bit of a slanted
table in trade for some decades,so it'll be interesting to see
(04:56):
how this all works out.
Tom Goldsby (04:58):
Well, something that's not all too unrelated
from tariffs is the de minimisloophole that got removed.
Even the Biden administrationwas talking about yanking that
loophole and it didn't happenduring the course of his term.
But Trump did act upon it.
I think it was threatened and Ithink it got implemented such
that those business to consumerretailers, particularly those in
(05:19):
China, the Shein's, the Taimusof the world, but also, you know
, US-based companies like Amazon, eBay, Etsy, that routinely
ship individual parcels into thecountry From.
My sense is that that businesshas virtually dried up by virtue
of that loophole being closed.
Anything valued under $800 usedto be able to freely come into
(05:40):
the US with very little customscrutiny, and you know the
argumentation there was that itwasn't just fashion goods coming
in, it was also drugs,narcotics and other
paraphernalia and such.
So I think DC Velocity reportedthat inbound US postal
shipments have dropped by 80percent and the likes of DHL
have stopped accepting US boundB2C shipments.
(06:01):
So a lot of interesting stufftaking place in that space.
C shipments so a lot ofinteresting stuff taking place
in that space.
Ted Stank (06:06):
Yeah, you know, a number of different nations'
postal services have suspendedoperations into the US because
they don't know how to deal withthe customs charges on these
products.
So again another interestingthing to shake out.
I mean this is a parcelbusiness but certainly in the
consumer realm big business.
Tom Goldsby (06:24):
Yeah, I've been kind of taking an informal
survey of my students who reallyyou know, this is a parcel
business but certainly in theconsumer realm, big business.
Yeah, I've been kind of takingan informal survey of my
students who really you knowvery much of the target market.
You know the TikTok audiencethat very much is influenced by
influencers as well as perhapsinfluencing peers, and the idea
of that $10 T-shirt now costingyou know $210 by the time you
add a $200 flat fee, which againsome things still need to get
(06:47):
sorted out, but it does seemlike that market could dry up.
On other regulatory fronts, alot of folks are watching the
electric vehicle incentives.
The federal clean vehicle taxcredit is going to run its
course at the end of this month,up to $7,500 on qualified
vehicles going away, and theprevious administration made a
(07:09):
lot of big bets.
Inflation Reduction Act broughtthose incentives into being and
a whole host of the big OEMautomakers making big bets and
building those EV plants and thebattery plants as well, some of
those bets being placed righthere in Tennessee, particularly
over in West Tennessee, withFord's big play in Memphis.
(07:31):
Hey, I know you bought a carrecently but you decided to go
hybrid, not fully EV.
Yeah, and.
Ted Stank (07:37):
I didn't go fully EV.
I traveled too many miles onthe highway to go fully EV.
I'd be interested one day indoing it, but again, so much
uncertainty.
Related to this, tom, is theice raid on the Hyundai plant in
Georgia last week.
That's going to be an EV plantand an associated LG battery
plant alongside it.
There's so much uncertaintybetween trade policy, support of
(08:03):
green technology, immigrationpolicy.
Man, we need those digitaltwins, andrew.
There's so many levers, so manyvariables at play right now
that it's just really hard topredict how any of this works
out.
Andrew Byer (08:18):
It's almost like the systems and the supply chain
, decision making can't keep upwith the legislation, which is
almost the opposite of the wayit's always been Right.
Ted Stank (08:27):
We're always pushing right to get this stuff passed,
and now it just happens onweekly, certainly sometimes a
daily basis, and you know theadministration feels like they
have a two year window to reallyimplement a lot of their
policies before the midtermelections, and so I think there
is a big rush on to get as muchchange as possible in the first
(08:48):
two years.
Certainly in those firsthundred days we're a whirlwind.
Tom Goldsby (08:51):
Yeah, they're going by fast, for sure, and so so
many of these overtures, as youpoint out, affecting the supply
chain.
It's why sometimes I have toremind myself this is a supply
chain podcast, right?
Because we're talking aboutglobal matters and big economics
and geopolitics.
Ted Stank (09:06):
Ultimately, Speaking of that, tom, you know the
numbers are starting to come out.
These are like laggingindicators of what's going on,
but inflation numbers came outtoday showed that inflation was
heating up I think 2.9% orsomething like that.
And then the latest jobs reportfrom last week was that only
22,000 jobs were created inAugust and the Bureau of Labor
(09:38):
Statistics downgraded the yearending in March with a reduction
of I think it was 911,000 jobs.
So some really interestinglagging economic data.
Lagging economic data.
The thing that really surprisedme was that 911,000 jobs year
end March, because that extendedinto the previous
administration as well.
Tom Goldsby (09:52):
Yeah, so things weren't maybe as hot as they
were portrayed to be at thattime.
But hey, I'm excited to bringAndrew into the full
conversation and get a deepersense of his background and hear
about those 39 years at P&G andwhat he's been up to in the
year and a half since.
But I teased that his final gigat P&G was an interesting one.
(10:15):
He retired as Senior DirectorSupply Chain Capability and
Know-How Licensing and we'regoing to want to find out what
exactly that meant.
But we're also keen to pointout that Andrew's not only a
guest on today's podcast, buthe's a frequent listener.
Andrew Byer (10:32):
Is that right?
Absolutely.
I'm never doing yard workwithout a podcast on, and you
guys?
So I associate this with grimeand sweat.
Ted Stank (10:40):
That's good.
That's good for a supply chainpodcast.
That's very fitting Gritty.
That might be our tagline.
Actually Tennessee on supplychain management podcast, grind
and sweat.
Tom Goldsby (10:51):
I like it.
We need that.
Well, hey again, andrew, Ipromise we'll get to that final
gig.
I think our listeners will bereally interested in what you're
up to.
But just kind of looking backat 39 years with the company,
again one of the foremost, mostcapable supply chain companies
on the planet, cpg industry,which is full of change and
(11:14):
challenge, what are just some ofthe big lessons maybe that you
take away?
And when you have a opportunitylike this one to share bits of
wisdom, what do you kind of lookback upon and say, wow, that
was pretty cool.
Andrew Byer (11:26):
Yeah, especially since you have the opportunity
to interact with a lot ofstudents who are trying to wrap
their minds around what thesupply chain industry and a
profession could look like.
As I look back, the thing thatsticks out is we are in the
business of supply and it's likea catchphrase, because
everything you do in the supplychain is in support of what your
business or your customer needs.
It's not about running a supplychain well in isolation.
(11:49):
It's how well the supply chainsupports the business.
You win or lose as a business,right.
So people are going andthinking, oh, I'll be an
engineer, I'll be inmanufacturing, I'll run a
warehouse.
Those things are done tosupport your business, right.
The other thing I wouldprobably say that I always took
away work is a process and, youknow, include tools like
technology, but your resultscome from your people and you
(12:13):
always have to think about howdo I get my people to be able to
perform at their peak?
Ted Stank (12:18):
You know, andrew, I'm glad you brought up the fact
that really supply chains arethere to support the business.
I've heard Tom say it in class,I've said it myself many times
in class, that story about theProcter Gamble, two moments of
aha right the aha moment thatsomething is on the shelf and
then the aha moment when you getthe product home and consume it
.
And the second aha neverhappens if the first aha isn't
(12:40):
done really well.
And I think that really ties inincredibly well to our
perspective at Tennessee onsupply chain management right,
it's all about what you do forthe customer.
Andrew Byer (12:50):
And you know we need to keep evolving, and we
actually added a third moment ofaha or moment of truth, which
is when they search for youonline.
Tom Goldsby (12:58):
Precedes Exactly yeah.
Andrew Byer (13:01):
When we first came up with ahas, there wasn't so
much Right.
Ted Stank (13:05):
I mean, I've experienced that as a consumer.
You know you see somethingthat's flashy and you want to
find it, and you try to get tothe website and it's impossible
to access a product.
Andrew Byer (13:15):
Or if you're not in stock, you don't show.
Tom Goldsby (13:16):
Yeah, Well that's really cool and you know you had
your entire career at ProcterGamble from, an interesting
start that you actually sharedwith Ted and me.
Before we hit the record buttonwe got to call it out.
You did your collegiateschooling in the state of
Tennessee, but it wasn't here onRocky Top.
Andrew Byer (13:36):
That's right.
I actually went to Vanderbilton a full ride for sports
writing, so I was not headed inthe supply chain direction when
I went to college.
You know, internships are awonderful thing.
They can tell you what youmight like and when I interned
as a sports writer I found it.
When you take what your fun andyour passion is and you make it
your job, sometimes it doesn'twork out.
(13:57):
It's interesting.
Yeah, you're going to aballpark and it's a job.
It's not fun.
How did you decide on supplychain?
There was a little serendipitythere.
Ted P&G at the time was therecruiting profile, was leaders.
Today it's all you know,engineers and industrial data
scientists and things like that.
But at the time they looked atleadership profiles.
(14:17):
So I entered the supply chainwith a English lit degree
fitting sports writing, with ahard hitting ancient Greek and
Roman history minor.
But if you look at the historyof P&G, several of our CEOs have
this type of academicbackground.
And what were some?
Tom Goldsby (14:34):
of those gigs that you took on, what was your
starting role?
Andrew Byer (14:38):
So I entered into the supply chain in order
management and transportationwarehousing.
You know, transportationpurchasing for the Northeast.
I had an interestingresponsibility the distribution
of P&G products to the USmilitary.
And what was interesting aboutthat is it wasn't large volume
Think about the commissaries andthe bases it was across all P&G
(15:01):
categories.
And one thing that'sinteresting, you know you could
say, oh, you work 39 years atP&G.
It's just one company.
Every different supply chainhas its own uniquenesses, right,
you know, our duty business haslots of SKUs.
Paper businesses have to run athigh tight capacity because of
the cost of equipment, thingslike that.
Every business is different,has unique variabilities, and I
(15:23):
got to see it early in my careerbecause I was managing our
distribution to military bases.
Ted Stank (15:29):
You know, what really intrigues me, andrew, is your
comment about how you enteredP&G because of recruiting for
leadership and leaders and Iknow one of your big themes has
been people.
We talk a lot about technologytoday, how AI is going to take
over the world and we're notgoing to have people working in
supply chains anymore because AIis going to take their jobs.
(15:52):
Really interested to get yourtake on the importance of people
in the supply chain and therole of the interaction between
people and technology.
Andrew Byer (16:03):
Yeah, I'm a big subscriber and I'll paraphrase
Jensen Huang, the NVIDIA CEO.
But AI is not likely to takepeople's jobs.
It's the people who use AI wellwho are going to take the jobs.
Right, If the best example, Ted, that I could encapsulate my
learning on AI.
First of all, AI is not amonolith.
There are many different typesof AI.
Right, it's not a synonym forchat, GPT, but we had a problem.
(16:28):
We saw machine learning as anopportunity.
No-transcript, whatever Machinelearning can do that in minutes
(17:21):
and do it with high accuracy.
And we liked the crystal boxnature where it would say most
of these items have the sameparameter settings, but there's
one item that has one differentout of all these.
It's the anomaly Is it right oris it wrong?
And the planner would just sayyes, no, and the machine
learning model would learn.
(17:41):
It could then actually populatethings.
But it took a problem wecouldn't solve.
It took work people hated to doand knew they weren't doing
well, and it fixed it.
So it's funny work people hatedto do and knew they weren't
doing well, and it fixed it.
So it's funny the technologywas the same and the work was
very similar, but on one hand,forcing it to the organization.
On the other hand, it beingpulled in by the organization
made all the difference.
Ted Stank (18:01):
Yeah, I've had stories of friends of mine out
in the industry who have triedto gamify it with their teams to
say, you know what are thethings you hate doing most?
And we see how we can make MLhelp us and be more productive.
And initially it's like, oh,you're trying to take our jobs
away, but then all of a sudden,somebody comes up with an idea
that automates something thatthey hated doing and took
(18:21):
forever and didn't do well, andthen people start getting on
board.
Man, I'm totally with you that.
I think AI is going to besomething that's a ground up
effort instead of a top downeffort, that, as people get more
experience with using differentapplications of it, that's
where we're going to see realinnovation.
Tom Goldsby (18:40):
Yeah, I think so.
And, by the way, ted, I applaudYou're becoming something of a
super user of AI within our shopand you're really helping to
bring the likes of myself along.
Ted Stank (18:52):
Yeah, I decided a couple of years ago that I am an
old dog and I needed to learnsome new tricks, and so I
decided two summers ago toreally dive into it and just
figure out how it could justhelp me in my everyday life.
Forget about, you know, I canread about all kinds of supply
chain applications, but just howit could work for me in my life
to help me get through a lot ofthe drudgery.
(19:15):
You know, one of the thingspeople I don't think really
understand is that when you're aprofessor, even when you rise
high like Tom and I are in ourorganization we don't have a lot
of administrative support.
We do everything ourselves.
If we're going to change ourlesson plans, it's us doing the
PowerPoints and creating the,you know, the imagery and
everything, and that'snon-value-added work.
(19:36):
Right, the idea behind thelesson is important, but putting
it together is not.
But we don't have anybody to dothat for us, and tools like
this are so useful when I tellpeople the use case.
Andrew Byer (19:47):
The tools change frequently.
The use cases keep developing.
Ted Stank (19:53):
It's keep watching the space.
Yeah, I mean, I've been doingthis for 35 years, andrew, and a
lot of the conceptual thingsthat we talk about in the supply
chain haven't changed in 35years.
It's the tools that change allthe time.
If you were on with us sevenyears ago, we'd be talking about
blockchain right now.
Tom Goldsby (20:08):
What would we be saying, though?
Ted Stank (20:10):
But anyway it's going to do everything.
World hunger I predict a globalpandemic coming up.
That blockchain is going tosolve.
Tom Goldsby (20:18):
Well, hey, speaking of things like pandemic and the
need to evolve and adapt, yeah,I'd just be really curious,
andrew, the lessons that youlearned.
I don't know what role you werefulfilling, say, exactly five,
five and a half years ago, oreven which business unit you
were supporting at that time,but I'd just be curious about
what were some of the biglessons that P&G took away from
(20:41):
the COVID experience thatperhaps are shedding some light
and proving helpful innavigating the tumult and VUCA
world that we live in today.
Andrew Byer (20:51):
Gosh, there are so many vivid lessons.
You know we talked earlier howit seems like the supply chain
can't go fast enough to keep upwith legislative decisions
happening.
I was really impressed, almostshocked, by the speed that the
supply chain could respond.
In COVID, p&g doesn't typicallymake things that shield your
(21:12):
eyes and hand sanitizers we weremaking masks, hand sanitizers,
face shields like how quickly wecould get our equipment and our
employees because of howimportant it was.
The second thing we learned wehad some great examples where,
just because of laws indifferent countries, we had a
plant in one state in a countryand most of the management lived
(21:36):
in a different state.
Most of the technicians livedin the same state as the plant
and the plant was able to runbasically with no management and
run at decent rates.
People were not allowed tocross state lines in that
country.
Employees volunteered to stayat the plants because, remember,
p&g makes health, hygiene andcleaning products.
If you think about what wasstressed during the pandemic,
(21:57):
health, hygiene and cleaningpretty much tick all the boxes.
Plus, you know, the USmanufacturer on some really
clear overarching goals.
Everyone gets it from top tobottom how important it is.
(22:19):
You can move really fast.
Ted Stank (22:22):
Yeah, you know we're getting some distance between us
and COVID now, but I think oneday soon, people are going to
look back at COVID.
It's probably going to getslowed down because of the
political conversation aroundCOVID and everything, but I
think it is one of supplychain's great moments in history
.
Now we have partners ShawIndustries that shifted from
(22:43):
making standard flooring tomaking stuff for flexible
manufacturing facilities orhealthcare facilities.
Phillips Medical Products werehelping hospitals put together
tent cities with the ability todo monitoring and stuff out in
the parking lot.
It was really an amazing time.
We have Jim Capone from Pfizerthat's talked about the journey
(23:05):
from when the CEO called themall in and said they were going
to make 100 million COVIDvaccines I can't remember how
many in like six months whennothing had ever been attempted
like that before.
What an just an incrediblestory.
Tom Goldsby (23:19):
Yeah, no, it's amazing, and I think you're
right that we need to kind ofreflect and think about how we
can leverage those capabilities.
And that's, I think, a perfectsegue to that last post you held
at Procter Gamble.
Andrew, that I've been teasingrepetitively.
Let's get into that.
As senior director, supplychain, capability and know-how,
(23:40):
licensing and, again, p&g isregarded as among the best of
the best at supply chain, andcorrect me if I'm wrong, but
your gig was to help othercompanies try to emulate the P&G
way Not competitors, mind you,but going outside the CPG
industry and those head-to-headcompetitors.
And I'm curious where you tookthat know-how, knowledge and how
(24:01):
that all worked.
Andrew Byer (24:02):
There were some CPG companies, like in food and
beverage, that weren't competingwith P&G.
But if you're looking toimprove your organization's
results, what we used to say iswe can help accelerate and
de-risk your transformation.
We run a supply chain.
We've already done it.
We're licensing our know-how.
This is not like technology andstuff, but it's how do you get
your employees to be clear onwhat the work is, trained,
(24:24):
skilled and qualified to be ableto do the work and then execute
it.
Like that, stuff can take youforever.
If you've got a blueprint thatworks, you can go so much faster
and you can avoid things thatdon't work because, okay, we
tried this and it didn't work,so this, we have a proven
standard.
So it was a lot of fun assomebody who's fascinated with
(24:45):
supply chains.
What I also liked is I got tolook under the hood in lots of
different industries outside ofCPG.
Tom Goldsby (24:52):
Yeah, and then I'm just curious how far and wide
could you take the principle inpractice?
Andrew Byer (24:57):
Oh my gosh.
Oil and gas, dairy farm andlife sciences, heavy industries,
even service companies.
I remember talking to atelephone company.
These are companies who need toget a better result out of
their organization and arelooking at is it just simply
faster to go with somethingproven versus try and develop it
in-house?
Ted Stank (25:17):
I love that, andrew, because sometimes we'll get
challenged that these conceptsthat we teach in class,
especially the executive classes, like, well, that doesn't apply
in my company or my industrybecause, fill in the blank, and
that is true, probably at theground level, but at a certain
level these concepts areuniversal.
Frankly, they come down topeople.
Andrew Byer (25:38):
Earlier, I told you work as a process.
Results come from people.
This almost felt to me like aformula.
First, we would define thestandard work.
I mean at a granular,actionable level, clear.
It's documented, you know theinputs and the outputs, who does
what in what sequence.
And, most importantly, thestandard is proven to deliver
the results you need.
When you follow it right, thenit's valid.
(25:59):
Then, okay, what are the skillspeople need to do this work?
What is the training to providethose skills?
What's the qualification tomake sure they actually picked
up the skills?
And then the final thing is isthe work process congruent with
any tools?
But once you have that, you goto your organization and you,
like you know what to do, youknow how to do it.
(26:20):
Here is what you're accountablefor.
Go, surprise us with theresults, Because when you
empower them, when you give themthe capabilities, the tools
they need, they will alwayssurprise you with the results
they can deliver.
And you know, hold youroperations, your frontline
people, accountable for results.
Make them equipment owners,make them system owners.
That's really what we werelicensing.
(26:43):
How do you do that in anorganization so it's sustainable
In your experience?
Ted Stank (26:47):
across all these different industries.
What is the single thing thatyou found was the biggest?
I'll call it a weakness, maybecall it a challenge that
companies struggled with thatstopped them from being a P&G.
Andrew Byer (27:00):
I think culture probably is the first thing that
comes to mind.
P&g is grow from within, so wehave a pretty typical and very
defined culture.
I think having management clear, your job is to get results
through the frontline people,not to do the work yourself.
You know you were just talkingabout, hey, high level
professors, but we still do ourown stuff.
I mean, the frontline peoplemake the product.
(27:20):
The frontline people plan theshipments and plan the materials
and the production.
How do you get those peopleaccountable?
And management job is helpingthem deliver the results,
removing the hard obstacles,making sure they have the
training needed, not inspecting,not overmanaging.
Getting that culture right isprobably the biggest difference
I saw.
Ted Stank (27:41):
Yeah, as the old saying right, culture eats
strategy.
I'm not an organizationalbehavioralist but I would be
really interested to know of howmany people that start at P&G
end at P&G in their career, andI think that speaks to culture.
I mean, there's a lot of AndrewByers out there that I've
talked to that have spent theirentire career at P&G.
I mean, we know and love MikeBurnett.
(28:02):
Mike Burnett is a P&G guyExactly.
Andrew Byer (28:06):
I don't have an answer for you on what the
statistic is.
I can just tell you when Iretired with 39 years, it was
not hard to find people withgreater tenure.
Yeah, I can remember atechnician retiring with north
of 50 years.
Ted Stank (28:18):
And that, to me, that just speaks volumes about
culture.
Tom Goldsby (28:21):
Yeah, yeah, and I think also what I hear from P&G
those lifers is that you knowthey're supported.
So many different opportunitiesto grow and challenge
themselves and move frombusiness unit to business unit,
role to role and I think thatreally helps to contribute.
Again goes back to the culture.
But you know one area that,andrew, I know you're very
passionate about and you'veactually been very helpful with
(28:43):
us here at UT as we have doubleddown in the area of supply
chain planning and you haveplugged in, been so generous
with what we're doing in SupplyChain Planning Academy and kind
of revising some of ourcurriculum up and down the board
.
What is it about planning?
It seems like we haven't usedthat word at all in the course
of our discussions so far andfor students that can remember,
(29:05):
I'd like to go back to thatinfamous Allen Iverson interview
, right the locker roominterview, where he was talking
about practice.
We ain't talking about the game, we're talking about practice.
Well, with planning, we're nottalking about source, make,
deliver, we're talking aboutplanning.
And so what is it that's kindof special in your mind about
planning?
And how do the best companieslike the P&G of the world really
(29:28):
create advantage throughadvanced planning techniques?
Andrew Byer (29:32):
Sure you know what's unique or important about
planning.
Remember, before I talked aboutbeing in the business of supply
.
With planning, you aretranslating what your business
needs out of the supply chaininto how will we get it done and
deliver what's expected of usright, the right time, the right
costs, the right quality, rightcash flow.
So it's creating the art of thepossible.
(29:55):
Out of this is the requirement.
How do you make it work?
And then there are times maybeyou can't make it work.
How do you surface the gap?
Surface it early and then workwith your business team to deal
with achieving your businessresults.
Another way and there's a lotof you know you're getting data
and synthesizing it, identifyingclosing gaps and then
(30:15):
ultimately making sure you knowyour leadership's plan whether
you call it S&OP or whatever isbeing delivered, or you're
coming back to them and helpingadjust the plan.
Ted Stank (30:25):
Certainly one of the things we found through our
Advanced Supply ChainCollaborative is I don't know if
we recognized it back in 2019when we created the
collaborative, which is ourapplied research arm the major
theme is that if we can doplanning better, we can do
everything all the operations insupply chain better, and yet
planning was kind of an area ofthe supply chain that had not
(30:46):
received at most companies, thefocus that you should receive.
I think that's changing that'schanging.
Tom Goldsby (30:57):
Another area in which you've been very
passionate in this early days ofyour retirement working with
startups, and looking at yourLinkedIn profile, I didn't
realize, actually, that you wereworking with so many young
organizations.
What's the draw for you to workwith these young enterprises
and what are you bringing to thetable for them?
Andrew Byer (31:10):
So you know, when I retired, being a very good P&G,
I set my goals.
One was to keep learning andgrowing.
The other was to give back andworking with startups.
I find it's a combination ofboth.
It's kind of like why I'veenjoyed like talking at the
Tennessee Supply Chain PlanningAcademy.
I love being connected tobright minds, talking about new
ideas or the potential to changethe landscape, and you know,
(31:33):
I've also found the lessons froma corporate behemoth right.
P&g is a really large company.
They're still applicable tosmall startups where I can count
the number of employees withone hand.
You know I was talking with onecompany and they were like
people are buying our productbut they're struggling to get
results, and it turns outadoption, the congruency of you
(31:55):
know of what is the job to bedone and how is it defined.
And then what I just took youthrough a few minutes ago, the
adoption with a startup andtheir customers is not really
the difference with large,established companies.
It's never about the tech, it'sabout the organization's
ability to adopt and use it todeliver value.
The same thing I would do at alarge company I can do with a
(32:15):
startup.
It's just they move so fast andit's a lot of fun.
Tom Goldsby (32:19):
Well, that's so cool.
It also seems to be a nicefollow-up to the gig that you
closed out your P&G career, kindof taking that capability and
know-how and taking it out intoother enterprises, and I imagine
they are benefiting immenselyfrom the experience.
Well, we're getting kind of thehook here from our producer, so
it's probably about time for usto wrap up.
(32:40):
But, ted, I know we've got someother tidbits that we want to
throw out before folks sign offfrom the podcast today.
Right?
Ted Stank (32:48):
Yeah, I mean I almost cut you off with Andrew's last
answer, tom, so that we couldsay, hey, if you're really
interested in Andrew's answer,tune in to the first episode of
season four.
But we don't want to makeAndrew have to come back to us
again, so we didn't do that.
But our next podcast will be alive podcast from CSCMP Edge in
(33:08):
National Harbor, dc, in earlyOctober, and then the first
episode of season four will takeplace live again at our UTK
Supply Chain Forum November 4ththrough 6th.
I think the actual date of thepodcast will be November 5th.
As always, people have ideas,thoughts, comments.
Ted, you're an idiot.
You should leave the show andlet Tom run it.
(33:30):
Send us an email at gsciutkedu.
Tom Goldsby (33:35):
My mom's not still sending that message, is she?
I told her to stop.
Well, I didn't want to let youknow.
And one other thing I want toplug While we're promoting
things again.
So much going on here at RockyTop, I'm really pleased that we
just released a couple of whitepapers in recent days, one being
the returns management whitepaper that I co-authored with
(33:55):
Hussein Abdul, our absolute rockstar in consumer returns, and
so that white paper is now outon the website and, again, those
are freely available.
Just give us your email addressand you can access not just
that white paper but a wholehost of others in the library
but a lot of really coolreadings out there.
But I want to make the worldaware of that one.
Ted Stank (34:16):
Andrew, thanks again for joining us.
Always great to talk to you.
Andrew Byer (34:20):
I couldn't pass up the opportunity to talk with two
supply chain luminaries.
Thank you so much, and so foreverybody out there that's
grinding and sweating.
Ted Stank (34:28):
We're going to sign off.
Tom Goldsby (34:30):
It's quite the picture in my head, but hey,
everyone, have a great start tofall.
Intro & Outro (34:41):
We look forward to connecting with you in season
four.
Stay tuned.
Thanks for tuning in toTennessee on Supply Chain
Management.
If you enjoyed the episode,subscribe today on your favorite
listening platform to get allof our episodes as soon as they
drop, and don't forget to take amoment to leave us a rating.
Have any questions, thoughts orfeedback?
We'd love to hear from ourlisteners.
Email us at gsci at utkedu.
(35:03):
Join us next time as wecontinue pulling back the
curtain on the world of supplychain, educating and
entertaining you along the way.
Until then, listeners.
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