April 5, 2021 • 33 mins
Join us as we discuss Austria's killer nurses: the Death Angels! Part underpaid and overworked gaggle of women in the healthcare industry, part cruel and boastful killers, these ladies knew how to keep their patients quiet and at peace- if by quiet and at peace you mean DEAD! Learn all about their brutal killing methods and just how easy it was to earn a one way ticket to Heaven. Did I mention the rumors about Pavilion 5 yet? I didn't? Well, you'll just have to listen to find out more.
If you prefer looking and listening, you can find our episodes in video form over at YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOfvqpv0LvHGC7ss3USYuEA. Be sure to subscribe/rate/review and why not go ahead and satisfy your curiosity and check out our Patreon page at https://www.patreon.com/terriblepeopledoingterriblethings. We appreciate the continued support!
All music (Creepy Comedy and Monsters in Hotel) is adapted from Rafael Krux original works (https://filmmusic.io/artists/rafael-krux) and is licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 International (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)
If you prefer looking and listening, you can find our episodes in video form over at YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOfvqpv0LvHGC7ss3USYuEA. Be sure to subscribe/rate/review and why not go ahead and satisfy your curiosity and check out our Patreon page at https://www.patreon.com/terriblepeopledoingterriblethings. We appreciate the continued support!
All music (Creepy Comedy and Monsters in Hotel) is adapted from Rafael Krux original works (https://filmmusic.io/artists/rafael-krux) and is licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 International (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
Welcome to terrible people doing terrible things. I'm Amanda, and I'm a licensed
psychologist who enjoy studying the worst ofhumanity. And I'm Laura, a true
crime and horror fan who loves researchingdark and twisted stories. So Amanda today,
I have a story that I foundby searching for some of the stupidest
mistakes killers have ever made. Sokeep that in mind because that will come
(00:37):
into play later. Okay, butbefore we get into all that, I
wanted to talk a little bit aboutangels of mercy in the healthcare world.
Okay, yeah, So anybody whodoesn't know what an angel of mercy is,
it is basically just a healthcare professionalwho chooses to aid their patients in
their desire to end their lives dueto illness or pain. Okay, So
(00:59):
my thoughts on this are I thinkthat, you know, assisted suicide should
be an option for people who areterminally ill, you know, much different
from you know, just killing yourself, But yeah, I think it should
be an option. We let dogsand cats have the option, you know,
to I guess we have that choicefor them though, yeah, but
we know it's an option we haveif they are suffering too much. Yeah,
(01:23):
So what are your feelings on unassistedsuicide? So I tend to agree
with you, which I'm not sureif that comes as a surprise to people
since I'm a psychologist. But Ithink in the case of medical issues like
terminal illness from you know, cancer, late stage AIDS, Parkinson's, maybe
(01:44):
some of these older you know,the what the what do they call it?
Jaron Ah, Why am I tryingto think of? Gerontology is the
study of the kind of yes,geriatrics, thank you so the geriatric population.
Wow, I think of up withword today. It's that kind of
day, Jesus. So I thinkthat for these cases, I would very
(02:07):
much like for us to consider itat least kind of start considering, you
know, is there a way tobring this into the medical world as a
form of treatment or alternative to theseindividuals being in a bed the rest of
their lives for years, suffering andbeing in pain for a long time until
(02:30):
they die, exactly because we havenot done a good job with palliat of
care. And to me, thepain, the opioid situation we're incurrently speaks
of volumes to that. Yeah,yeah, my uncle passed away and he
was he had had a stroke andhe was in pain for a long time.
Yeah, but like he was onmorphine and it just gave him morphine
(02:51):
at home. Well that's all theyknow how to do, right with that
kind of situation. Yeah, Andit's it is unfortunate because, like you
know, there's a big difference betweenand I'm terminally ill and the end result
is I'm going to die in thenext few years and it's going to be
real slow and real painful. Yeah. And there's a difference between that and
someone coming to you seeking help forbeing suicidal, Yes, because that's the
(03:14):
end result is not that you knowthat you're going to die. If you
can get through that, you know, it's just a I wouldn't I don't
know how to describe it, becauseI mean, it is just a mental
thing. Yeah, I mean it'snot because it's it. You can feel
depression physically, and there's a wholeslew of just things that you know depression
(03:36):
can do to your body. Butthe end result, if somebody can help
you, is not that you're goingto die exactly. It's not going to
kill you. Just because you havedepression or anxiety or something. You can
seek help and change that outcome.But if you have you know, late
stage cancer all throughout your body andyou know you are going to die in
a few years, and you Ithink you should be able to choose,
(03:59):
like do I die now, youknow, without all the pain and just
just call it quits now, ordo I want to? And you know
we're not saying that like, oh, if they're terminally ill, we should
just put them down. No,No, it should be that person,
the person's decision. So as longas they're like competent, and people who
are having like depressive thoughts and stufflike that, you know, I don't
(04:21):
I don't think would be considered competentto choose. They're not thinking logically,
they are seeking you know how wealways kind of refer to it a permanent
solution to a temporary situation. Althoughfor a lot of people depression can be
chronic, but it can also bemanaged and overcome in more cases than not,
(04:44):
I would say, with the righttreatment, right, But you know,
we don't have that yet with cancer. No, it's terminal. It's
terminal. Yeah, once it's itspreads, you know, and there's chemo.
But I've known people who go throughchemo and it is a horrible,
horrible experience, and I don't blamesomebody for not wanting to do that.
You have the people who didn't evenknow they had cancer because they're not really
(05:06):
having a lot of symptoms or signs, find out they have cancer and they
want to put them an aggressive chemo, and all of a sudden, these
people are suffering. So I havea hard time with saying something like,
just do chemo, just do radiation. Just I think ultimately, it's your
body, your life. If youare of sound mind to be able to
(05:27):
say, like I I just wantto go now, I think that should
be at least an option that shouldbe looked into. I understand if there
would be processes and yes, evaluationsand interviews, and I totally support that,
but it should be an option thatwe give people. Yeah, well,
we should be able to at leasttalk about it and start considering how
(05:48):
this might be incorporated. The otherpiece to me, which is coming from
a more I don't know if it'smore like scientific logical side, is the
fact that we are right now comingup against the largest population of elderly you
know, seventy plus individuals we've everhad in our population at one time.
(06:11):
And this is happening at the sametime we have a pandemic. Yeah,
so I'm just curious, you know, how much of the burden of what
is happening to the healthcare system isalso directly or indirectly impacted by the fact
that we have a larger population ofpeople that are going to need ongoing treatment.
And we are also people are livinglonger, which is good but also
(06:33):
bad, bad if we're not preparedfor that. Yeah, so not that
again. I'm not saying go killeverybody over seventy good God want anybody killing
my parents or your parents or anyoneelse. But if we had these options
in place for individuals, there arepeople who would want that option. There
(06:54):
are lots of people. Well,and are there countries that already do it?
Like I can't remember. I mean, like like back in the old
days, they used to just putpeople in the like old people in the
woods and let them wander off andlet them die that way, but like
let nature take its course. Idon't, I don't know. I mean,
other countries may not, like likeprosecute and judge their healthcare workers as
(07:15):
much or as harshly, yeah aswe do here, because here it is
considered murder, Yes, regardless ofyour intent, which is why it's so
risky for healthcare workers who do thatkind of thing, because yeah, if
you get found out, you knowyou you will go to jail. Yeah,
because technically, per our laws,it doesn't matter if they asked you
(07:36):
to kill them or not. Yeah, no, it's we don't allow it.
Yeah, it's all very muddled andstuff. And um yeah, one
other piece of this that makes iteven more muddled is, um, where
like, where do we draw theline on someone's intent yes to do this?
So yeah, you can always sayafter the fact, oh well she
(07:57):
asked me a killer, And youcould say, oh, well, I
was doing it because you know,I wanted to ender suffering. And there
are lots of angels of mercy whodo that because they want to end the
suffering. Yeah, there are alsopeople who do it because they get pleasure
from it or feel like a hero, a god whatever. Yeah. So
what happens when your intentions aren't sonoble and also when you don't get to
(08:18):
choose if you would like to beassisted in suicide or not. So today
I'm going to tell you about WaltrudeWagner and the death Angels, which is
her little her little group accult.I would say, could motorcycle gang,
Yeah, motorcycle gang, old ladiesor I imagine old ladies, but I
(08:41):
know that's probably not true. Well, I mean they are now true.
It's like the Golden Girls if theywent bad and started a motorcycle gang.
It's like the Golden Girls of murder. Yeah, yeah, pretty much.
But no. Wagner was born innineteen sixty and she actually started killing at
the age of twenty three, sothat would be when she murdered her first
(09:01):
victim. Okay. I couldn't reallyfind out any information about her or any
of the other Death Angels childhoods orbackgrounds. It's not really well known.
Yeah. Also this occurred in Austria, like it was a big thing.
I found nudes articles and stuff,but not as sensationalized as I would say.
It would be here. It wouldbe here, yeah, absolutely.
And I did talk to my Austrianstepdad, father in law, stepdad,
(09:24):
whoops, father in law, Mybad, my Austrian father in law,
and he does remember this time periodbecause he was in Austria at the time.
Because all over the news nineteen eighties. Yeah, we're talking like eighty
nine, eighty nine to ninety onewhen the whole trial and stuff took place,
(09:48):
so he remembers it. Yeah.So Wagner was described in the news
articles and stuff as being uncaring andsadistic. And she worked as a nurse
on the graveyard shift at Lane's GeneralHospital, Vienna, Austria. Is there
there's some great nurse qualities right there? Yeah, yeah, Well I can't
imagine because I have, like I'vebeen in the hospital in time or two
(10:09):
and there are sometimes nurses who justdo not enjoy their job or just having
a bad day or yeah, youknow whatever don't seem like And I can
only imagine because healthcare workers, dearGod, they go through the gauntlet.
Yeah they do. So they seeeverything there, Like I mean, I
get the mental health side of thingsin terms of potential crisis, but they
get mental health, they get medicaleverything, probably get domestic violence, a
(10:33):
lot light bulbs up, butts,they get everything. Oh yeah, yeah,
you know what I mean, thingsstuck in people's rectums and stuff nurses
see all well, and people havingsex with things they shouldn't have sex with.
Uh huh. Yeah, you know, you ask any nurse, any
nurse has plenty of stories about someweird shit that they have seen throughout their
(10:54):
time. Yeah, but sadistic anduncaring isn't exactly how I would want to
define a nurse that was taking careof me. But that was Wagner's demeanor.
And she was only twenty three atthe time, which is interesting to
me. So I'm very curious whatwent down in her childhood. Yeah,
well, no, nineteen sixty.Yeah, I don't fucking though. Yeah,
(11:16):
I don't know. I don't know. But it's Austria too, so
I don't know. Yeah, Idon't know what. I don't know how
their childhoods were, but yeah,and how women are treated they're compared to
hear, Yeah, stuff like that. So the hospital that she worked at
had about two thousand people on thepayroll, which is fairly large. Yeah,
I think it seems big, likeit. It seems like a lot
(11:37):
of staff. I guess this isback in the eighties, but still,
like depending on I'd be curious whatthe patient of staff ratio was and if
this is the only hospital. Well, these are all like two thousand overall,
not one shift or anything like that. But you know, they had
a lot of yet, God couldyou imagine what was happening at that hospital
(11:58):
if you had to have two thousandpeople, don't even have room to put
the patience anywhere. It's just likefive nurses standing in a room shoulder to
shoulder. I'd be like, coman, there's one patient for twenty nurses.
But still the death ray crazy high. Yeah. Well, Lane's General
Hospital also had a separate pavilion umwhere they kept quote unquote trouble cases,
(12:22):
which is really just terminally ill orelderly terminally ill patience. Okay, people
who were gonna die, yeah,go to Pavilion five. So so it's
it's like the morgue basically, orlike it's a hospice in a morgue.
Yeah, it's a hospice in amorgue. It's like put them over here,
a way for him to die,you know. Yeah. So just
(12:45):
not a pleasant word to begin with, you know, for starters. But
imagine throwing in a nurse in there, who's a fucking bitch or ratchet n
n Yeah. Um. Basically,so as you can imagine, the ward
had plenty of deaths. No strangerto death in Pavilion five. Yeah,
(13:05):
but there is a limit to theratio. I guess I would say of
deaths to to not okay, Andthat got a little high between like nineteen
eighty three and nineteen eighty nine,like a lot high, okay, not
a little high, really high.So it was odd, an odd death
toll. Yeah, something was happening, something, Yeah, something new had
(13:28):
been introduced in nineteen eighty three.Yeah, unless there was a fire over
in that ward, I'm gonna wantto know what the hell was going on,
right, So in nineteen eighty threeis when Wagner got her first taste
for killing. And that's my birthyear. Yeah, nice job. It's
funny because when they stopped murdering ismy birth year nineteen eighty nine. Interesting,
(13:52):
very weird, weird coincidence there andmy like some version of Damien and
I don't realize it, like theoh no, we're reincarnated, you know,
these women are still alive unfortunately.Oh yeah. So she got her
first taste of killing when she killedseventy seven year old patient who asked her
to end her life. Okay,so this is what you would call a
(14:15):
mercy killing. Yeah, and shedid it with a morphine overdose. Pretty
standard I think for working with theelderly. Yeah, a lot of elderly
patients on morphine these days. I'dbe curious to know the side effects of
too much morphine other than death andthe sense of like, is that one
of the most merciful ways you knowyou can't do it? I would assume
(14:35):
it is, But like, Idon't know. Do they choke on their
own vine at some point? Well, don't worry, She's not merciful for
long. Even if a morphine overdoseis more merciful, which I imagine it
would be because it's a opioid.So you'd be in fucking high heaven before
you die. Yeah, and you'dprobably just slip out of consciousness I think,
(14:56):
or you'd have a heart attack,yeah, not feeling what's happening,
even if you are smothering to deathwith your your lungs. Not worrying that.
Yeah, you wouldn't notice. Idon't know. I've never been overdosed
on morphine. Yeah. I willlet you know if it does happen.
Okay, So this is sadly whenWagner realized that she really liked the power
(15:18):
that she was holding over her patientswith life and death, so she liked
it. Of course, she likes, right, So it started off as
a mercy and then she was like, whoa, this is a high And
I guess this is called a godcomplex or fits in with a god complex.
I'm not really sure her entire Yeah, like psychological breakdown here because there's
not a whole lot of information aboutit. Sure, but she liked playing
(15:41):
god basically. Yeah, yeah,she liked wielding that power. Yeah.
Over time, Wagner recruited three otherwomen to assist her in her escapades,
and this is what gave them thename death Angels. Okay, yeah,
so there were four of them alltogether. There was Wagner of course herself
twenty three, Maria Gruber, whowas a nursing school dropout in her twenties,
(16:04):
Irene Leidolf who had a husband butpreferred to be with her girlfriends.
And Stefania Mayor, who was adivorced grandmother who was about twenty years older
than Wagner's. So we got threegirls in their twenties and then a woman
in her mid forties Okay, okay, and those make up the Death's Angels.
(16:26):
So it's not really clear exactly howmany people they killed because they admitted
to a whole bunch to start with, and then it was like a whole
thing from there. But it's anywherebetween forty two and three hundred okay,
over the course of six quite therange, most of those being Wagner.
Ah Okay. From what I read, Wagner's way of killing victims was to
(16:47):
either give them a lethal injection ofmorphine or her other favorite way of killing
people was what they called the watercure, and that was to pinch a
patient's nose, depressed their tongue,and pour water down their throat. A
very slow and painful way to die. But it's not uncommon for the elderly
(17:07):
to die with fluid in their lungs. Ah, so it's not surprising to
anyone, even with an autopsy.Damn. Okay. Yeah, So as
we were saying morphine might be nicer, I would nice ish, I would
choose morphine. I mean, ifyou're gonna kill me, please morphine,
don't waterboard me, which is basicallyyeah, I mean they drowned them,
(17:30):
Yeah, drowning asphyxiation. Yeah,just no, thank you. Yeah.
It's it's painful enough when I accidentallyinhale, spit and breathe in some water
because I forget how to drink properly, and then you cough like uncontrollably,
and it feels like your lungs areon fire. Burns. It's yeah,
awful. Now imagine just a wholejug of it. Yeah yeah, Now,
(17:51):
so you basically just drown and belike, oops, mister Stevens died
in his sleep. So she obviouslyshe taught her to sighs, had to
do this as well, gotcha.So this was just the general of the
Death's Angels was either lethal injection ordrowning. Okay, yeah, so some
were luckier than others. I guessthe environment of Pavilion five is already awful.
(18:14):
I mean, it's a place wherepeople die. You know, everyone
in there, like nobody in there'sgetting better well, And I wonder how
much treatment they're even giving them ingeneral and the point and if they're very
crowded, and yeah, from whatI understand, yeah, pretty crowded.
But nothing was scarier than the nightshift because that's when all the death Angels
(18:36):
worked. They all worked the graveyardshift together in Pavilion five. Nice and
the way that they chose their victimswould be if any patient displayed any sign
of any kind of annoyance to thenurses, and that would just sign their
death warrant, and then the womenwould plan the murder for the next night.
So you piss off the nurse,they kill you the next night.
(18:59):
Okay, Okay, so they've gota little kill list kind of going in
some manner. They have a killlist. Yeah. Also, I just
want you to real quick take astab at some of the annoyances that that
these might have been. I mean, you've worked in a hospital, right,
yeah, yeah, what what's themost annoying you know, like,
what's like just the most worst thinga patient can be. Most annoying would
(19:21):
just be like I mean, Iguess if they were like defecating on themselves
all the time or something and Iwas having to clean that up. But
I'm thinking for them, it waslike this person asked for something, well,
you know, something very simple.Well, some of the annoyances that
would earn you your death would besnoring, um, dirtying their sheets,
(19:45):
so soiling themselves. Yeah yeah,refusing medication, which does happen a lot
with people who have to stuff likethat, oh yeah, or buzzing for
help at inconvenient times, which I'mnot really sure, how you're supposed to
know when you're supposed to buzz orhow I'm guessing you just wouldn't you just
don't You're not you're not supposed toapparently. Yeah, and Wagner would say
(20:07):
when they did, like something wrongin her eyes, this one gets a
ticket to God. So there weget the god thing going in. Yeah.
Yeah, well and like she's referencingit like a fucking train ticket or
trip. It makes me think ofsome reason, Willy Wonka the ticket,
I gotta go the ticket. Idon't want to go ticket. I don't
(20:29):
want to go to take it toJesus or God. And she would either
murder alone or with her friends.Okay, just I guess if they were
around or not, didn't really matterif they were, they doing like rap
paper scissors to see. Like,I have no idea, it wouldn't surprise
me, honestly. Yeah. Soby nineteen eighty seven, when Wagner recruited
her last nurse coon, just that'swhat I think of the moment as is
(20:56):
just like like big mean scary womenwith but early fucking nurse outfits on stereotypical
yeah female pe teacher bit a nurseform somehow exactly. Yeah. So after
she recruited her last person, obviously, death started really picking up, really
really picked up. So the pavilionquickly got the nickname death Pavilion. And
(21:18):
as you can imagine, nobody wantedto go to the death Pavilion. Yeah.
No, you know, from whatmy father in law said, he
remembers reading in the news or somethinglike that about people actually who would get
assigned to that ward to go there, and they would flee from the hospital.
Oh yeah, they would just leave, yeah, because they don't want
to go to the death pavilion.Hell, which makes sense because it's the
death pavilion. I don't want toget to the death Pavilion unless they're talking
(21:41):
about like metal. Ooh, it'slike some kind of metal concert or something.
I would go to that death pavilion, for sure. I'd go to
that death pavilion. But well,yeah, by nineteen eighty eight, there
were rumors flying around of a killerrunning a muck in Pavilion five. So
everybody knew about it, you knowwhat I mean, it's not a secret.
There's obviously a lot of death happening, and they're even like, oh,
(22:04):
there's there's a murderer, and Iguess they thought it was haunted.
I don't know, but uh,well yeah, I'm like, it's Michael
Myers running around just stabbing people,like he stabs all the nurses. Pretty
much pretty much accept it's the nurses. Nurses there, so no surprise to
(22:25):
anybody. The man who was incharge of the hospital, and doctor Xavier
Pessendorfer, was suspended in April nineteeneighty nine for failing to launch an investigation
sooner. So you know, heknew, he knew. He was probably
given those fucking nurses raises for clearingthe place out quicker. He's probably telling
him which ones to kill. He'slike, I don't like that. I
don't like that old man. Yeah, he's part of their little game,
(22:48):
right, And he got suspended.Well, of course he did not fired
suspended. He was a man,I don't want to go to hospital,
this one by this motherfucker if thatwent out like outside of your note first
along in the eighties, like we'renot even talking like nineteen twenties here,
We're talking eighties, eighties, earlynineties. Yeah, no excuse, really,
yeah, just no excuse. Sonow we get to the part of
(23:10):
the story about stupidity. So theseare women, while sadistic and everything,
weren't very intelligent. They loved tohave drinks after work and you know,
after a hard day of killing itall, I guess you know you're earn
a beer. Yeah, they're abunch of woo girls. Yeah, whoa
(23:30):
who we hear That stupid old manthat had the so waste had the gold
asked me for some cherry jello insteadof lamb jello. We only gave.
I gave him a ticket right toGad. I gave him that ticket to
Gad. I love how we givethem the old Southern lady accent because I
have no idea what an Austrian accent. Yeah, I would be like Mangela
(23:53):
again. So it's yeah, that'sjust in German. Um, yeah it's
poor, poorly imitated German. Butyeah right, So guess what they also
did at these at these happy hoursbragged uh huh. Yeah, they would
relieve their most amusing stories and laughover their patient's last expressions or convulsions before
(24:17):
they died Jesus, uh huh andwhich I'm pretty sure any convulsions or expressions
that that was is pretty much yourbody trying not to be murdered. Yeah,
well it's that last like gasping andfear. I mean, they're still
going to have to deal with deficationand urine. I guess maybe just in
a dead body. I guess youshould wrap it up in sheets and not
have to clean it up like Idon't. They probably just cremated at them.
(24:41):
I wonder, Yeah, I wonderwhat the situation was with how they
dealt with the bodies once the persondied. I'm not sure if they had
no family, I'm sure they justchucked that shit one hundred percent just burn
them, Yeah, especially coming fromthe death pavilion. Yeah, like whatever.
So problem with going out in publicand bragging and boasting about to your
(25:03):
murders is that people can overhear you. Yes, And one night in February
nineteen eighty nine, someone heard themgiggling over the death of Julia Drepa and
she got the water cure because shewould not take her medicine and called Wagner
a slut. O good for her. Like just something about an old lady
(25:26):
calling a young woman a slut isjust really funny, especially like trying not
to like take your medication or whatever. It's being like fussy and just being
like, no, he's leaving as She probably knows they're evil bitches out
to kill her anyway, of coursethey do. You don't think the people
in the death pavilion know exactly whothe fuck not to piss off? I
beg you, Yeah, they know. Well, this someone happened to be
(25:48):
a doctor, and he went tothe police and anation led to the arrest
of all four women on April seventh. Good got them all locked up.
I know this doctor was like,are you fucking kidding me? I can't
imagine overhearing that conversation from nurse asa doctor. You're a doctor? Yeah,
Like, well, like, couldyou imagine you're sitting at a restaurant
or just a bar and you overhearlike we're sitting at a bar and you
(26:11):
overhear a nurse like did you seethe expecsion on her face as we drowned
her? They should make a whatwould you do a video about this?
Remember where they bring the cameras inand they have the people acting and they
see what the does or doesn't.Probably doesn't do anything. I bet you
wouldn't do Most people wouldn't do anything. I mean, I would at least
(26:33):
be in a corner, like,should I call the police? Do you
hear this? Like something? There'ssomething? Yeah, I would not confront
them because they kill people. Ohno, But luckily this doctor just went
to the police. Yeah exactly.I don't even I don't even know his
name because it just wasn't in Iprobably anonymous. No, I don't want
to be involved here. So theDeath's Angels confess to forty nine murders,
(26:59):
which Wagner, of course boasted thethirty nine of them were hers. Is
she dumb? Yes, they're all. Does she understand what that means if
she like takes ownership for the bestof them? Are you asking me if
she's dumb? As they were boastingin a ball? It's a rhetorical it's
flick. Is she dumb? Yes? Very, very very This is how
(27:19):
I found I just googled stupid.That's the whole I got worried for this
one. Yeah, yeah, soyes, not very intelligent. None of
them were. So. She admittedto murdering anyone who annoyed her, and
she even stated it wasn't always easy. Some resisted, but we were stronger.
(27:40):
We could decide whether these old fogieslived or died, so obviously she
really really is remorseful and really cares. Oh yeah, oh yeah about this.
She's just getting a power trip,right. Well, her little goons
threw the blame on her, ofcourse, as you do always with the
colt leader, of course, yeah, stating that she did most of it.
(28:00):
Irene was said to have been convincedthat Wagner had killed one hundred patients
over the last two years. Yeah, so I don't know if that's true.
You know, it's coming from oneof the other killers. But why
would she lie? Well, yeah, and if you know, if we
knew how many kind of the deathsand you could look at the data and
see like, oh yeah, wouldyou have a three increase? Yeah here
(28:25):
Yeah, So wouldn't surprise me.Wouldn't surprise me because I think this woman
really loved and it was easy,she had easy access, easy, she
enjoyed how it felt. No oneblinked an eye. Yeah, I could
you imagine you're walking around hearing rumorsabout a killer in the ward and you're
the killer. You're like, it'sright, and then you go to the
bar and you're like any people itsmy tie is so good. Do you
(28:48):
remember when my cold that old man, that's great out Now they're valley girls
for some reason. But I don'tknow. I mean, it's that's what
it seems like to me. Yeah. Sadly, as the case went on,
Wagner no longer wanted to discuss herinvolvement as openly with the police.
By nineteen ninety she had backed herkill count down to a max of ten
(29:08):
patients she killed to ease their pain. That's bullshit, no bullshit, now,
total bullshit. Yeah, you alreadyboasted about killing people in the bar.
Yeah, sorry, yeah, youalready. It's too late for you
to be like, oh, wedid it to ease their pain. Obviously,
nobody in Austria cared for these womenwhen they went to trial in March
nineteen ninety one, and this wasa huge shock to Austria, like,
(29:30):
yeah, not many cases like this, especially not so vile, you know
what I mean. And the prosecutionunfortunately couldn't get the evidence they needed to
prove all forty two counts of murderthat they had brought against them. Okay,
but Wagner was convicted of fifteen murders, seventeen attempted murders, and two
counts of aggravated assault. She gotlife in prison. Okay. Irene got
(29:52):
life two with five murders and twofailed attempts at murder. Stephanaga god can't
say her name, got fIF teenyears for manslaughter and seven attempted murders.
Okay, And Maria got the sameconviction as Stiff. I'm just gonna call
her for two attempted murders, gotcha, Okay? So okay, Now you
would probably say, okay, fine, they got a life in prison.
(30:15):
Yeah, well about that. Ireneand Wagner were released in two thousand and
eight, much to the public's decision. They were released for good behavior.
I was about to say, yeah, which, quick aside, how do
you feel about good behavior when itcomes to petty crimes versus you know,
like forty or so murders. Well, it reminds me of Gosh, I
(30:36):
feel like we were just talking aboutsomeone that got released for good behavior and
get released early. That was plentyof people through, Yeah, like some
pretty horrendous crimes, murderers and shit. So I'd like to know what they
mean by good behavior. First,I'll say that I'd like to see the
breakdown of like, okay, thisis how we determined good behavior, this
is how long it's been taking place, X, y Z. But at
(30:57):
face value, I don't think there'senough good behavior for me to let you
out of prison for killing forty elderlypeople with no care or remorse. Yeah,
you know what I mean. Ireally feel like you have to take
in the state of the person whenthey did it versus Oh it's been years
and now I want to get outof prison. So I'm being really good.
Well, and anybody who would begood, anybody can be good,
(31:18):
And let me restate that you canbe good. Well, you can be
good. And I think that youhave to think about the fact that PSI
presism. Prison is presenting a structuredenvironment that is highly controlled, where the
person doesn't have access to hurt otherpeople in the same way. But then
you left them out. A lotof shit goes down in prison. But
I think you're not taking into accountthe fact that like that is very different
(31:41):
than if they're just out and cando what at of gallivanting again and there
won't be the same consequences as ifyou fuck up in prison. So right,
yeah, well, this is whypeople in Austria were pissed yeah,
and the other two were actually releasedearlier and given new identities. I couldn't
find out written anywhere whether Wagner andIrene had been given new identities, but
(32:04):
from what my father in law said, they had. Okay, they all
got new identities when they got out, which makes me like worried because she's
just gonna hop to another country,be a nurse again and start killing people
again. Bam, probably doesn't evenhave to leave the country became a nurse
if they changed their appearance enough.But before you can be too outraged about
them letting these women out of jail. Austria's laws at the time dictated that
(32:24):
a life term usually meant around fifteenyears, which makes you say, was
that enough time for something like this? So they spent an adolescence in prison?
Yes, like a life term isfifteen years or so, I mean
not like doesn't have to be exact, but so like for the people they
got fifteen years, it's no differentthan the people who got life. Yeah,
(32:46):
makes a whole lot of sense.And people in Austria started like questioning
whether or not you know this wasa life like that was long enough for
a life sentence? Like that's nothow math works. Guys like, yeah,
they're not going to die in fifteenyears. No, no, now,
so they're all out of prison now, could be anywhere, could be
dead, who knows. They allgot different names. But yeah, so
(33:07):
that's it. Okay, thank youso much for joining us. If you
have any feedback, you can leavea review or send us a message on
social media or at our website,which is simply Terrible People Doing terrible things
dot WordPress dot com. And remember, terrible people are everywhere, and you
might just be one of them.A
Welcome to terrible people doing terrible things. I'm Amanda, and I'm a licensed
psychologist who enjoy studying the worst ofhumanity. And I'm Laura, a true
crime and horror fan who loves researchingdark and twisted stories. So Amanda today,
I have a story that I foundby searching for some of the stupidest
mistakes killers have ever made. Sokeep that in mind because that will come
(00:37):
into play later. Okay, butbefore we get into all that, I
wanted to talk a little bit aboutangels of mercy in the healthcare world.
Okay, yeah, So anybody whodoesn't know what an angel of mercy is,
it is basically just a healthcare professionalwho chooses to aid their patients in
their desire to end their lives dueto illness or pain. Okay, So
(00:59):
my thoughts on this are I thinkthat, you know, assisted suicide should
be an option for people who areterminally ill, you know, much different
from you know, just killing yourself, But yeah, I think it should
be an option. We let dogsand cats have the option, you know,
to I guess we have that choicefor them though, yeah, but
we know it's an option we haveif they are suffering too much. Yeah,
(01:23):
So what are your feelings on unassistedsuicide? So I tend to agree
with you, which I'm not sureif that comes as a surprise to people
since I'm a psychologist. But Ithink in the case of medical issues like
terminal illness from you know, cancer, late stage AIDS, Parkinson's, maybe
(01:44):
some of these older you know,the what the what do they call it?
Jaron Ah, Why am I tryingto think of? Gerontology is the
study of the kind of yes,geriatrics, thank you so the geriatric population.
Wow, I think of up withword today. It's that kind of
day, Jesus. So I thinkthat for these cases, I would very
(02:07):
much like for us to consider itat least kind of start considering, you
know, is there a way tobring this into the medical world as a
form of treatment or alternative to theseindividuals being in a bed the rest of
their lives for years, suffering andbeing in pain for a long time until
(02:30):
they die, exactly because we havenot done a good job with palliat of
care. And to me, thepain, the opioid situation we're incurrently speaks
of volumes to that. Yeah,yeah, my uncle passed away and he
was he had had a stroke andhe was in pain for a long time.
Yeah, but like he was onmorphine and it just gave him morphine
(02:51):
at home. Well that's all theyknow how to do, right with that
kind of situation. Yeah, Andit's it is unfortunate because, like you
know, there's a big difference betweenand I'm terminally ill and the end result
is I'm going to die in thenext few years and it's going to be
real slow and real painful. Yeah. And there's a difference between that and
someone coming to you seeking help forbeing suicidal, Yes, because that's the
(03:14):
end result is not that you knowthat you're going to die. If you
can get through that, you know, it's just a I wouldn't I don't
know how to describe it, becauseI mean, it is just a mental
thing. Yeah, I mean it'snot because it's it. You can feel
depression physically, and there's a wholeslew of just things that you know depression
(03:36):
can do to your body. Butthe end result, if somebody can help
you, is not that you're goingto die exactly. It's not going to
kill you. Just because you havedepression or anxiety or something. You can
seek help and change that outcome.But if you have you know, late
stage cancer all throughout your body andyou know you are going to die in
a few years, and you Ithink you should be able to choose,
(03:59):
like do I die now, youknow, without all the pain and just
just call it quits now, ordo I want to? And you know
we're not saying that like, oh, if they're terminally ill, we should
just put them down. No,No, it should be that person,
the person's decision. So as longas they're like competent, and people who
are having like depressive thoughts and stufflike that, you know, I don't
(04:21):
I don't think would be considered competentto choose. They're not thinking logically,
they are seeking you know how wealways kind of refer to it a permanent
solution to a temporary situation. Althoughfor a lot of people depression can be
chronic, but it can also bemanaged and overcome in more cases than not,
(04:44):
I would say, with the righttreatment, right, But you know,
we don't have that yet with cancer. No, it's terminal. It's
terminal. Yeah, once it's itspreads, you know, and there's chemo.
But I've known people who go throughchemo and it is a horrible,
horrible experience, and I don't blamesomebody for not wanting to do that.
You have the people who didn't evenknow they had cancer because they're not really
(05:06):
having a lot of symptoms or signs, find out they have cancer and they
want to put them an aggressive chemo, and all of a sudden, these
people are suffering. So I havea hard time with saying something like,
just do chemo, just do radiation. Just I think ultimately, it's your
body, your life. If youare of sound mind to be able to
(05:27):
say, like I I just wantto go now, I think that should
be at least an option that shouldbe looked into. I understand if there
would be processes and yes, evaluationsand interviews, and I totally support that,
but it should be an option thatwe give people. Yeah, well,
we should be able to at leasttalk about it and start considering how
(05:48):
this might be incorporated. The otherpiece to me, which is coming from
a more I don't know if it'smore like scientific logical side, is the
fact that we are right now comingup against the largest population of elderly you
know, seventy plus individuals we've everhad in our population at one time.
(06:11):
And this is happening at the sametime we have a pandemic. Yeah,
so I'm just curious, you know, how much of the burden of what
is happening to the healthcare system isalso directly or indirectly impacted by the fact
that we have a larger population ofpeople that are going to need ongoing treatment.
And we are also people are livinglonger, which is good but also
(06:33):
bad, bad if we're not preparedfor that. Yeah, so not that
again. I'm not saying go killeverybody over seventy good God want anybody killing
my parents or your parents or anyoneelse. But if we had these options
in place for individuals, there arepeople who would want that option. There
(06:54):
are lots of people. Well,and are there countries that already do it?
Like I can't remember. I mean, like like back in the old
days, they used to just putpeople in the like old people in the
woods and let them wander off andlet them die that way, but like
let nature take its course. Idon't, I don't know. I mean,
other countries may not, like likeprosecute and judge their healthcare workers as
(07:15):
much or as harshly, yeah aswe do here, because here it is
considered murder, Yes, regardless ofyour intent, which is why it's so
risky for healthcare workers who do thatkind of thing, because yeah, if
you get found out, you knowyou you will go to jail. Yeah,
because technically, per our laws,it doesn't matter if they asked you
(07:36):
to kill them or not. Yeah, no, it's we don't allow it.
Yeah, it's all very muddled andstuff. And um yeah, one
other piece of this that makes iteven more muddled is, um, where
like, where do we draw theline on someone's intent yes to do this?
So yeah, you can always sayafter the fact, oh well she
(07:57):
asked me a killer, And youcould say, oh, well, I
was doing it because you know,I wanted to ender suffering. And there
are lots of angels of mercy whodo that because they want to end the
suffering. Yeah, there are alsopeople who do it because they get pleasure
from it or feel like a hero, a god whatever. Yeah. So
what happens when your intentions aren't sonoble and also when you don't get to
(08:18):
choose if you would like to beassisted in suicide or not. So today
I'm going to tell you about WaltrudeWagner and the death Angels, which is
her little her little group accult.I would say, could motorcycle gang,
Yeah, motorcycle gang, old ladiesor I imagine old ladies, but I
(08:41):
know that's probably not true. Well, I mean they are now true.
It's like the Golden Girls if theywent bad and started a motorcycle gang.
It's like the Golden Girls of murder. Yeah, yeah, pretty much.
But no. Wagner was born innineteen sixty and she actually started killing at
the age of twenty three, sothat would be when she murdered her first
(09:01):
victim. Okay. I couldn't reallyfind out any information about her or any
of the other Death Angels childhoods orbackgrounds. It's not really well known.
Yeah. Also this occurred in Austria, like it was a big thing.
I found nudes articles and stuff,but not as sensationalized as I would say.
It would be here. It wouldbe here, yeah, absolutely.
And I did talk to my Austrianstepdad, father in law, stepdad,
(09:24):
whoops, father in law, Mybad, my Austrian father in law,
and he does remember this time periodbecause he was in Austria at the time.
Because all over the news nineteen eighties. Yeah, we're talking like eighty
nine, eighty nine to ninety onewhen the whole trial and stuff took place,
(09:48):
so he remembers it. Yeah.So Wagner was described in the news
articles and stuff as being uncaring andsadistic. And she worked as a nurse
on the graveyard shift at Lane's GeneralHospital, Vienna, Austria. Is there
there's some great nurse qualities right there? Yeah, yeah, Well I can't
imagine because I have, like I'vebeen in the hospital in time or two
(10:09):
and there are sometimes nurses who justdo not enjoy their job or just having
a bad day or yeah, youknow whatever don't seem like And I can
only imagine because healthcare workers, dearGod, they go through the gauntlet.
Yeah they do. So they seeeverything there, Like I mean, I
get the mental health side of thingsin terms of potential crisis, but they
get mental health, they get medicaleverything, probably get domestic violence, a
(10:33):
lot light bulbs up, butts,they get everything. Oh yeah, yeah,
you know what I mean, thingsstuck in people's rectums and stuff nurses
see all well, and people havingsex with things they shouldn't have sex with.
Uh huh. Yeah, you know, you ask any nurse, any
nurse has plenty of stories about someweird shit that they have seen throughout their
(10:54):
time. Yeah, but sadistic anduncaring isn't exactly how I would want to
define a nurse that was taking careof me. But that was Wagner's demeanor.
And she was only twenty three atthe time, which is interesting to
me. So I'm very curious whatwent down in her childhood. Yeah,
well, no, nineteen sixty.Yeah, I don't fucking though. Yeah,
(11:16):
I don't know. I don't know. But it's Austria too, so
I don't know. Yeah, Idon't know what. I don't know how
their childhoods were, but yeah,and how women are treated they're compared to
hear, Yeah, stuff like that. So the hospital that she worked at
had about two thousand people on thepayroll, which is fairly large. Yeah,
I think it seems big, likeit. It seems like a lot
(11:37):
of staff. I guess this isback in the eighties, but still,
like depending on I'd be curious whatthe patient of staff ratio was and if
this is the only hospital. Well, these are all like two thousand overall,
not one shift or anything like that. But you know, they had
a lot of yet, God couldyou imagine what was happening at that hospital
(11:58):
if you had to have two thousandpeople, don't even have room to put
the patience anywhere. It's just likefive nurses standing in a room shoulder to
shoulder. I'd be like, coman, there's one patient for twenty nurses.
But still the death ray crazy high. Yeah. Well, Lane's General
Hospital also had a separate pavilion umwhere they kept quote unquote trouble cases,
(12:22):
which is really just terminally ill orelderly terminally ill patience. Okay, people
who were gonna die, yeah,go to Pavilion five. So so it's
it's like the morgue basically, orlike it's a hospice in a morgue.
Yeah, it's a hospice in amorgue. It's like put them over here,
a way for him to die,you know. Yeah. So just
(12:45):
not a pleasant word to begin with, you know, for starters. But
imagine throwing in a nurse in there, who's a fucking bitch or ratchet n
n Yeah. Um. Basically,so as you can imagine, the ward
had plenty of deaths. No strangerto death in Pavilion five. Yeah,
(13:05):
but there is a limit to theratio. I guess I would say of
deaths to to not okay, Andthat got a little high between like nineteen
eighty three and nineteen eighty nine,like a lot high, okay, not
a little high, really high.So it was odd, an odd death
toll. Yeah, something was happening, something, Yeah, something new had
(13:28):
been introduced in nineteen eighty three.Yeah, unless there was a fire over
in that ward, I'm gonna wantto know what the hell was going on,
right, So in nineteen eighty threeis when Wagner got her first taste
for killing. And that's my birthyear. Yeah, nice job. It's
funny because when they stopped murdering ismy birth year nineteen eighty nine. Interesting,
(13:52):
very weird, weird coincidence there andmy like some version of Damien and
I don't realize it, like theoh no, we're reincarnated, you know,
these women are still alive unfortunately.Oh yeah. So she got her
first taste of killing when she killedseventy seven year old patient who asked her
to end her life. Okay,so this is what you would call a
(14:15):
mercy killing. Yeah, and shedid it with a morphine overdose. Pretty
standard I think for working with theelderly. Yeah, a lot of elderly
patients on morphine these days. I'dbe curious to know the side effects of
too much morphine other than death andthe sense of like, is that one
of the most merciful ways you knowyou can't do it? I would assume
(14:35):
it is, But like, Idon't know. Do they choke on their
own vine at some point? Well, don't worry, She's not merciful for
long. Even if a morphine overdoseis more merciful, which I imagine it
would be because it's a opioid.So you'd be in fucking high heaven before
you die. Yeah, and you'dprobably just slip out of consciousness I think,
(14:56):
or you'd have a heart attack,yeah, not feeling what's happening,
even if you are smothering to deathwith your your lungs. Not worrying that.
Yeah, you wouldn't notice. Idon't know. I've never been overdosed
on morphine. Yeah. I willlet you know if it does happen.
Okay, So this is sadly whenWagner realized that she really liked the power
(15:18):
that she was holding over her patientswith life and death, so she liked
it. Of course, she likes, right, So it started off as
a mercy and then she was like, whoa, this is a high And
I guess this is called a godcomplex or fits in with a god complex.
I'm not really sure her entire Yeah, like psychological breakdown here because there's
not a whole lot of information aboutit. Sure, but she liked playing
(15:41):
god basically. Yeah, yeah,she liked wielding that power. Yeah.
Over time, Wagner recruited three otherwomen to assist her in her escapades,
and this is what gave them thename death Angels. Okay, yeah,
so there were four of them alltogether. There was Wagner of course herself
twenty three, Maria Gruber, whowas a nursing school dropout in her twenties,
(16:04):
Irene Leidolf who had a husband butpreferred to be with her girlfriends.
And Stefania Mayor, who was adivorced grandmother who was about twenty years older
than Wagner's. So we got threegirls in their twenties and then a woman
in her mid forties Okay, okay, and those make up the Death's Angels.
(16:26):
So it's not really clear exactly howmany people they killed because they admitted
to a whole bunch to start with, and then it was like a whole
thing from there. But it's anywherebetween forty two and three hundred okay,
over the course of six quite therange, most of those being Wagner.
Ah Okay. From what I read, Wagner's way of killing victims was to
(16:47):
either give them a lethal injection ofmorphine or her other favorite way of killing
people was what they called the watercure, and that was to pinch a
patient's nose, depressed their tongue,and pour water down their throat. A
very slow and painful way to die. But it's not uncommon for the elderly
(17:07):
to die with fluid in their lungs. Ah, so it's not surprising to
anyone, even with an autopsy.Damn. Okay. Yeah, So as
we were saying morphine might be nicer, I would nice ish, I would
choose morphine. I mean, ifyou're gonna kill me, please morphine,
don't waterboard me, which is basicallyyeah, I mean they drowned them,
(17:30):
Yeah, drowning asphyxiation. Yeah,just no, thank you. Yeah.
It's it's painful enough when I accidentallyinhale, spit and breathe in some water
because I forget how to drink properly, and then you cough like uncontrollably,
and it feels like your lungs areon fire. Burns. It's yeah,
awful. Now imagine just a wholejug of it. Yeah yeah, Now,
(17:51):
so you basically just drown and belike, oops, mister Stevens died
in his sleep. So she obviouslyshe taught her to sighs, had to
do this as well, gotcha.So this was just the general of the
Death's Angels was either lethal injection ordrowning. Okay, yeah, so some
were luckier than others. I guessthe environment of Pavilion five is already awful.
(18:14):
I mean, it's a place wherepeople die. You know, everyone
in there, like nobody in there'sgetting better well, And I wonder how
much treatment they're even giving them ingeneral and the point and if they're very
crowded, and yeah, from whatI understand, yeah, pretty crowded.
But nothing was scarier than the nightshift because that's when all the death Angels
(18:36):
worked. They all worked the graveyardshift together in Pavilion five. Nice and
the way that they chose their victimswould be if any patient displayed any sign
of any kind of annoyance to thenurses, and that would just sign their
death warrant, and then the womenwould plan the murder for the next night.
So you piss off the nurse,they kill you the next night.
(18:59):
Okay, Okay, so they've gota little kill list kind of going in
some manner. They have a killlist. Yeah. Also, I just
want you to real quick take astab at some of the annoyances that that
these might have been. I mean, you've worked in a hospital, right,
yeah, yeah, what what's themost annoying you know, like,
what's like just the most worst thinga patient can be. Most annoying would
(19:21):
just be like I mean, Iguess if they were like defecating on themselves
all the time or something and Iwas having to clean that up. But
I'm thinking for them, it waslike this person asked for something, well,
you know, something very simple.Well, some of the annoyances that
would earn you your death would besnoring, um, dirtying their sheets,
(19:45):
so soiling themselves. Yeah yeah,refusing medication, which does happen a lot
with people who have to stuff likethat, oh yeah, or buzzing for
help at inconvenient times, which I'mnot really sure, how you're supposed to
know when you're supposed to buzz orhow I'm guessing you just wouldn't you just
don't You're not you're not supposed toapparently. Yeah, and Wagner would say
(20:07):
when they did, like something wrongin her eyes, this one gets a
ticket to God. So there weget the god thing going in. Yeah.
Yeah, well and like she's referencingit like a fucking train ticket or
trip. It makes me think ofsome reason, Willy Wonka the ticket,
I gotta go the ticket. Idon't want to go ticket. I don't
(20:29):
want to go to take it toJesus or God. And she would either
murder alone or with her friends.Okay, just I guess if they were
around or not, didn't really matterif they were, they doing like rap
paper scissors to see. Like,I have no idea, it wouldn't surprise
me, honestly. Yeah. Soby nineteen eighty seven, when Wagner recruited
her last nurse coon, just that'swhat I think of the moment as is
(20:56):
just like like big mean scary womenwith but early fucking nurse outfits on stereotypical
yeah female pe teacher bit a nurseform somehow exactly. Yeah. So after
she recruited her last person, obviously, death started really picking up, really
really picked up. So the pavilionquickly got the nickname death Pavilion. And
(21:18):
as you can imagine, nobody wantedto go to the death Pavilion. Yeah.
No, you know, from whatmy father in law said, he
remembers reading in the news or somethinglike that about people actually who would get
assigned to that ward to go there, and they would flee from the hospital.
Oh yeah, they would just leave, yeah, because they don't want
to go to the death pavilion.Hell, which makes sense because it's the
death pavilion. I don't want toget to the death Pavilion unless they're talking
(21:41):
about like metal. Ooh, it'slike some kind of metal concert or something.
I would go to that death pavilion, for sure. I'd go to
that death pavilion. But well,yeah, by nineteen eighty eight, there
were rumors flying around of a killerrunning a muck in Pavilion five. So
everybody knew about it, you knowwhat I mean, it's not a secret.
There's obviously a lot of death happening, and they're even like, oh,
(22:04):
there's there's a murderer, and Iguess they thought it was haunted.
I don't know, but uh,well yeah, I'm like, it's Michael
Myers running around just stabbing people,like he stabs all the nurses. Pretty
much pretty much accept it's the nurses. Nurses there, so no surprise to
(22:25):
anybody. The man who was incharge of the hospital, and doctor Xavier
Pessendorfer, was suspended in April nineteeneighty nine for failing to launch an investigation
sooner. So you know, heknew, he knew. He was probably
given those fucking nurses raises for clearingthe place out quicker. He's probably telling
him which ones to kill. He'slike, I don't like that. I
don't like that old man. Yeah, he's part of their little game,
(22:48):
right, And he got suspended.Well, of course he did not fired
suspended. He was a man,I don't want to go to hospital,
this one by this motherfucker if thatwent out like outside of your note first
along in the eighties, like we'renot even talking like nineteen twenties here,
We're talking eighties, eighties, earlynineties. Yeah, no excuse, really,
yeah, just no excuse. Sonow we get to the part of
(23:10):
the story about stupidity. So theseare women, while sadistic and everything,
weren't very intelligent. They loved tohave drinks after work and you know,
after a hard day of killing itall, I guess you know you're earn
a beer. Yeah, they're abunch of woo girls. Yeah, whoa
(23:30):
who we hear That stupid old manthat had the so waste had the gold
asked me for some cherry jello insteadof lamb jello. We only gave.
I gave him a ticket right toGad. I gave him that ticket to
Gad. I love how we givethem the old Southern lady accent because I
have no idea what an Austrian accent. Yeah, I would be like Mangela
(23:53):
again. So it's yeah, that'sjust in German. Um, yeah it's
poor, poorly imitated German. Butyeah right, So guess what they also
did at these at these happy hoursbragged uh huh. Yeah, they would
relieve their most amusing stories and laughover their patient's last expressions or convulsions before
(24:17):
they died Jesus, uh huh andwhich I'm pretty sure any convulsions or expressions
that that was is pretty much yourbody trying not to be murdered. Yeah,
well it's that last like gasping andfear. I mean, they're still
going to have to deal with deficationand urine. I guess maybe just in
a dead body. I guess youshould wrap it up in sheets and not
have to clean it up like Idon't. They probably just cremated at them.
(24:41):
I wonder, Yeah, I wonderwhat the situation was with how they
dealt with the bodies once the persondied. I'm not sure if they had
no family, I'm sure they justchucked that shit one hundred percent just burn
them, Yeah, especially coming fromthe death pavilion. Yeah, like whatever.
So problem with going out in publicand bragging and boasting about to your
(25:03):
murders is that people can overhear you. Yes, And one night in February
nineteen eighty nine, someone heard themgiggling over the death of Julia Drepa and
she got the water cure because shewould not take her medicine and called Wagner
a slut. O good for her. Like just something about an old lady
(25:26):
calling a young woman a slut isjust really funny, especially like trying not
to like take your medication or whatever. It's being like fussy and just being
like, no, he's leaving as She probably knows they're evil bitches out
to kill her anyway, of coursethey do. You don't think the people
in the death pavilion know exactly whothe fuck not to piss off? I
beg you, Yeah, they know. Well, this someone happened to be
(25:48):
a doctor, and he went tothe police and anation led to the arrest
of all four women on April seventh. Good got them all locked up.
I know this doctor was like,are you fucking kidding me? I can't
imagine overhearing that conversation from nurse asa doctor. You're a doctor? Yeah,
Like, well, like, couldyou imagine you're sitting at a restaurant
or just a bar and you overhearlike we're sitting at a bar and you
(26:11):
overhear a nurse like did you seethe expecsion on her face as we drowned
her? They should make a whatwould you do a video about this?
Remember where they bring the cameras inand they have the people acting and they
see what the does or doesn't.Probably doesn't do anything. I bet you
wouldn't do Most people wouldn't do anything. I mean, I would at least
(26:33):
be in a corner, like,should I call the police? Do you
hear this? Like something? There'ssomething? Yeah, I would not confront
them because they kill people. Ohno, But luckily this doctor just went
to the police. Yeah exactly.I don't even I don't even know his
name because it just wasn't in Iprobably anonymous. No, I don't want
to be involved here. So theDeath's Angels confess to forty nine murders,
(26:59):
which Wagner, of course boasted thethirty nine of them were hers. Is
she dumb? Yes, they're all. Does she understand what that means if
she like takes ownership for the bestof them? Are you asking me if
she's dumb? As they were boastingin a ball? It's a rhetorical it's
flick. Is she dumb? Yes? Very, very very This is how
(27:19):
I found I just googled stupid.That's the whole I got worried for this
one. Yeah, yeah, soyes, not very intelligent. None of
them were. So. She admittedto murdering anyone who annoyed her, and
she even stated it wasn't always easy. Some resisted, but we were stronger.
(27:40):
We could decide whether these old fogieslived or died, so obviously she
really really is remorseful and really cares. Oh yeah, oh yeah about this.
She's just getting a power trip,right. Well, her little goons
threw the blame on her, ofcourse, as you do always with the
colt leader, of course, yeah, stating that she did most of it.
(28:00):
Irene was said to have been convincedthat Wagner had killed one hundred patients
over the last two years. Yeah, so I don't know if that's true.
You know, it's coming from oneof the other killers. But why
would she lie? Well, yeah, and if you know, if we
knew how many kind of the deathsand you could look at the data and
see like, oh yeah, wouldyou have a three increase? Yeah here
(28:25):
Yeah, So wouldn't surprise me.Wouldn't surprise me because I think this woman
really loved and it was easy,she had easy access, easy, she
enjoyed how it felt. No oneblinked an eye. Yeah, I could
you imagine you're walking around hearing rumorsabout a killer in the ward and you're
the killer. You're like, it'sright, and then you go to the
bar and you're like any people itsmy tie is so good. Do you
(28:48):
remember when my cold that old man, that's great out Now they're valley girls
for some reason. But I don'tknow. I mean, it's that's what
it seems like to me. Yeah. Sadly, as the case went on,
Wagner no longer wanted to discuss herinvolvement as openly with the police.
By nineteen ninety she had backed herkill count down to a max of ten
(29:08):
patients she killed to ease their pain. That's bullshit, no bullshit, now,
total bullshit. Yeah, you alreadyboasted about killing people in the bar.
Yeah, sorry, yeah, youalready. It's too late for you
to be like, oh, wedid it to ease their pain. Obviously,
nobody in Austria cared for these womenwhen they went to trial in March
nineteen ninety one, and this wasa huge shock to Austria, like,
(29:30):
yeah, not many cases like this, especially not so vile, you know
what I mean. And the prosecutionunfortunately couldn't get the evidence they needed to
prove all forty two counts of murderthat they had brought against them. Okay,
but Wagner was convicted of fifteen murders, seventeen attempted murders, and two
counts of aggravated assault. She gotlife in prison. Okay. Irene got
(29:52):
life two with five murders and twofailed attempts at murder. Stephanaga god can't
say her name, got fIF teenyears for manslaughter and seven attempted murders.
Okay, And Maria got the sameconviction as Stiff. I'm just gonna call
her for two attempted murders, gotcha, Okay? So okay, Now you
would probably say, okay, fine, they got a life in prison.
(30:15):
Yeah, well about that. Ireneand Wagner were released in two thousand and
eight, much to the public's decision. They were released for good behavior.
I was about to say, yeah, which, quick aside, how do
you feel about good behavior when itcomes to petty crimes versus you know,
like forty or so murders. Well, it reminds me of Gosh, I
(30:36):
feel like we were just talking aboutsomeone that got released for good behavior and
get released early. That was plentyof people through, Yeah, like some
pretty horrendous crimes, murderers and shit. So I'd like to know what they
mean by good behavior. First,I'll say that I'd like to see the
breakdown of like, okay, thisis how we determined good behavior, this
is how long it's been taking place, X, y Z. But at
(30:57):
face value, I don't think there'senough good behavior for me to let you
out of prison for killing forty elderlypeople with no care or remorse. Yeah,
you know what I mean. Ireally feel like you have to take
in the state of the person whenthey did it versus Oh it's been years
and now I want to get outof prison. So I'm being really good.
Well, and anybody who would begood, anybody can be good,
(31:18):
And let me restate that you canbe good. Well, you can be
good. And I think that youhave to think about the fact that PSI
presism. Prison is presenting a structuredenvironment that is highly controlled, where the
person doesn't have access to hurt otherpeople in the same way. But then
you left them out. A lotof shit goes down in prison. But
I think you're not taking into accountthe fact that like that is very different
(31:41):
than if they're just out and cando what at of gallivanting again and there
won't be the same consequences as ifyou fuck up in prison. So right,
yeah, well, this is whypeople in Austria were pissed yeah,
and the other two were actually releasedearlier and given new identities. I couldn't
find out written anywhere whether Wagner andIrene had been given new identities, but
(32:04):
from what my father in law said, they had. Okay, they all
got new identities when they got out, which makes me like worried because she's
just gonna hop to another country,be a nurse again and start killing people
again. Bam, probably doesn't evenhave to leave the country became a nurse
if they changed their appearance enough.But before you can be too outraged about
them letting these women out of jail. Austria's laws at the time dictated that
(32:24):
a life term usually meant around fifteenyears, which makes you say, was
that enough time for something like this? So they spent an adolescence in prison?
Yes, like a life term isfifteen years or so, I mean
not like doesn't have to be exact, but so like for the people they
got fifteen years, it's no differentthan the people who got life. Yeah,
(32:46):
makes a whole lot of sense.And people in Austria started like questioning
whether or not you know this wasa life like that was long enough for
a life sentence? Like that's nothow math works. Guys like, yeah,
they're not going to die in fifteenyears. No, no, now,
so they're all out of prison now, could be anywhere, could be
dead, who knows. They allgot different names. But yeah, so
(33:07):
that's it. Okay, thank youso much for joining us. If you
have any feedback, you can leavea review or send us a message on
social media or at our website,which is simply Terrible People Doing terrible things
dot WordPress dot com. And remember, terrible people are everywhere, and you
might just be one of them.A
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.