March 22, 2021 • 49 mins
Join us as we wrap up our two-part series on America's favorite clown: Mr. John Wayne Gacy! We continue the story following Gacy's first murder and go full on clown as we discuss how Mr. Gacy came to be known as The Killer Clown. Learn about how he created not only Pogo the Clown, but also the lesser known Patches and used this outwardly friendly and innocent visage to go unnoticed for years as he continued to rape and murder young men in the Chicago region. Did I mention the photo op with President Carter's wife yet? I didn't? Well, you'll just have to listen to find out more.
If you prefer looking and listening, you can find our episodes in video form over at YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOfvqpv0LvHGC7ss3USYuEA. Be sure to subscribe/rate/review and why not go ahead and satisfy your curiosity and check out our Patreon page at https://www.patreon.com/terriblepeopledoingterriblethings. We appreciate the continued support!
All music (Creepy Comedy and Monsters in Hotel) is adapted from Rafael Krux original works (https://filmmusic.io/artists/rafael-krux) and is licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 International (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)
If you prefer looking and listening, you can find our episodes in video form over at YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOfvqpv0LvHGC7ss3USYuEA. Be sure to subscribe/rate/review and why not go ahead and satisfy your curiosity and check out our Patreon page at https://www.patreon.com/terriblepeopledoingterriblethings. We appreciate the continued support!
All music (Creepy Comedy and Monsters in Hotel) is adapted from Rafael Krux original works (https://filmmusic.io/artists/rafael-krux) and is licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 International (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:15):
Welcome to terrible people doing terrible things. I'm Laura, a true crime and
horror fan who enjoys researching dark andtwisted stories. And I'm Amanda, and
I'm a licensed psychologist who enjoys studyingthe worst of humanity. So for those
of you listening audio only, Iwould very strongly encourage you to visit our
YouTube channel and see what the hellwe've got going on with our faces right
(00:40):
now, because it's hard to explain, but I look like a sadistic clown
joker villain. Yeah, you looklike a You look like a hot marrionette
that's about to fucking rob a bank, as we look like currently. If
you put on like a black catsuit, mmmmmm, I could see you
(01:04):
doing like like you're a mime.Yes, Like that's like murdering and robbing
a bank, yes, but likeall catwoman, like all acrobatic and shit,
that's what I see. It's likeI'm kind of turned on and threatened
right now. Oh little, yeah, yeah, little, I look like
um my internal monologue of my highschool career. So it's not what I
(01:26):
looked like in high school, butthis is what I think I looked like
inside. Its sad, sad,angsty little teenager, I would explain my
clown face. Yeah. Well,and you even took the opportunity to put
on a blue wig, which Ilove. I like the wigs. I'm
(01:48):
feeling fucking with it. I mean, I'm gonna be honest though, it's
your teeth and the shit out ofme. So yeah, yeah, So,
and the reason we are dressed thisway is because today, Laura and
you part two of John Wayne Gaycythe Killer Clown, So finally donning our
face makeup as clown makeup, asI think one listener had kind of requested
(02:10):
almost at one point. So yeah, so here you go. You're well,
you're welcome. I hope you're happy. We haunt your nightmares. I
hope you. I hope you havesleep paralysis and this is what you wake
up too. It's hot out.I'm like haunting my own nightmares now right,
I'm probably going to haunt my ownI'll drink about this later. Yeah.
(02:35):
So I'm going to be wrapping upthe story on mister John Wayne Gacy
Junior. And this is part two. And in part one, I discussed
his origin story, the initial arrestsand crimes, and even revealed his first
murder victim, and that was fifteenyear old Timothy McCoy, who was stabbed
to death in nineteen seventy two andlater buried in the now infamous crawl space
(02:57):
of the Gaycy residence. The firstone to showing the crawl space. Yes,
yes, the first murder victim inthe crawl space. So, continuing
where I left off last time,you may be surprised to learn that Gacy
actually got married the same year hecommitted his first murder. Honestly, doesn't
surprise me, considering that he islike a possibly like uh, closeted gay.
(03:23):
Yeah, I mean it's hard,it's hard to define people's sexuality.
So I don't want to say thathe's like a closeted gay because he might
be a closeted bisexual. He's inthe closet and very angry about it.
Yes, yes, he is strugglingwith those sexual feelings. So it doesn't
surprise me that he, like,you know, society couldn't tra Actually,
(03:44):
i'll be obligates you to marry awoman in these times, So it doesn't
surprise me that he married a woman. And then maybe that like triggered his
like I fall you hate this andyeah, yeah, started killing young men.
Yeah. So he married a missCarroll Huff, and she was also
a divorcee because if you remember,he had been married for a while prior
(04:05):
to this, a few years,so miss Huff was a divorcee. And
this was in June nineteen seventy two. In that same month, while dressed
in full on police attire, Gaycylured and then viciously assaulted a twenty four
year old male who was unwilling toperform oral sex on him. So he
had picked up this guy wanted himto give him a blowjob dressed in so
(04:29):
he's he's impersonating a police officer,so he guess, oh yes, so
and this goes on to be likeone of the ways, one of the
many ways he has access to victimsand gains their trust modus operasm. And
this assault did land him in troublewith the police, the real police,
(04:51):
and he was arrested and charged withaggravated battery. But and this I still
can't wrap my brain around. Idon't know what the hell happened. So
his charges were dropped, and thiswas supposedly due to the fact that Gaycey
kind of filed the same charges againstthe victim. How does that work?
So he so I And I guessnow that I'm actually saying it out loud,
(05:14):
it makes a little more sense.So I guess maybe that it became
kind of this he said, hesaid situation where it's like no, no,
no, he assaulted me, Nono, no, he assaulted me,
and the cops are just like,fuck it, we're not dealing with
it. Well, they don't.They don't have your stereotypical heterosexual like yes,
sexual dispute to deal with. SoI'm sure they're not very comfortable,
(05:38):
well versed, or comfortable dealing withyou know, like they don't even they
didn't even deal with like, youknow, male on female sexual assault like
properly, so I doubt that theywould still still don't. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, And so I don't know. When I was first reading in
that, I was like, doesit just cancel the other out? So
(05:59):
like one linus one to zero.But I think it is just literally they
probably didn't have enough evidence to reallyknow who was telling the truth at that
point. Yeah, And I mean, you can't convict one if you like
don't have the evidence you need.I guess, yeah, so nothing came
of that. But back at thegay family home. In nineteen seventy three,
(06:19):
Gaysey ordered his mother to move outof the shared home. So he
gets married to Carol. Huh,he's been sharing at home with his mom
and he's like, get the fuckout. You need to get out of
here. And so Carol and hertwo daughters she has from another relationship end
up moving into the Gaycy home tostart their new, happy little family.
(06:40):
Yeah, that's what I want tobe as a child in that home.
So Gaycy begins working as a contractorthis same year and he ends up forming
the PDM Construction company, so he'sa business owner now sure, okay.
And the same year he has astroke. So did we did he have
(07:02):
a head injury? Yes, sowe have a head injury, as we
often do, and now we alsohave a stroke. Yeah. Well,
and the seizures. You know,he was epileptic, he was having uncontrolled
seizures. He had the brain bleedfrom the swing hitting him, which was
the brain injury. The head injury. He has a lot of problems,
so he does. And I don'tI don't understand how he's alive. Sheer
(07:27):
force of will, Oh God,yeah, it's like, um, who
was it brutos that got electrocuted andhe was fucking fine? Like why um?
Because life is unjust unfair and thepeople who should die don't. Yes,
yes, So he seems to haverecovered from this event with little to
no lasting effects. Of course,I like how they say that, but
(07:50):
this guy is a murderer. Welltrue, but in terms of like,
he's not hurting, he's not havingphysical limitations, right, he doesn't like
limping or having probable like speaking orwhatever. Yeah. So, in addition
to the mounting health issues, itappears his marriage was also suffering surprise,
surprise. It wouldn't be long beforeCarol realized Gacey was a bizarre and maybe
(08:16):
even unhinged individual as she struggled tocope with what she described as as ever
changing moods and his recently revealed sexualpreferences. So these preferences included what she
called an obsession with homosexual pornographic magazines, as well as Gacy's admission to his
wife that he was bisexual in nineteenseventy four. So he admits to her
(08:39):
he's interested in men, but hesays it's bisexuality, and it very well
could be okay, I mean,I get why she's uncomfortable with her,
like, especially at the time,like you know, people were very very
homophobic and stuff, so it's notsomething that's easy to deal with. But
it doesn't really like to me.I guess it's just a time time period
(09:01):
kind of thing because now, iflike your husband was like, I'm bisexual
and I also like men, likea lot of younger people would probably be
like, okay, like, justdon't I mean, and you count on
me, Yeah, regardless of thesex of the person that you cheat on
me with, just don't cheat.Just don't do it, because it could
(09:22):
easily be a woman or a man. And I think exactly and not to
like derail it too much, butI see why that's a little more threatening.
Sure, it's a whole another populationthat your significant other finds attractive and
who might find them attractive. It'sI'm not a man, so I can't
give that can't And it's even morepeople available now that contempts that. They
(09:45):
make strap offs for that. Iknow it's pegging, but no, you
like what you like, you don'tlike which don't like? Yea, you
know a lot of people enjoy ita lot of people don't, but I
can understand why his wife may beemotionally distressed well, and the other piece
about this. So he makes thisannouncement basically at the same time, he
(10:07):
also decides to inform her they areno longer going to be having sex.
Oh well, okay, and hedoes. He apparently does this right after
they finish having sex. He's like, we're not having sex anymore. Okay.
So this poor woman, because like, can you imagine you're like having
sex with a guy and then immediatelyafter you're done, he's like, we're
(10:31):
not having sex anymore. My firstthought is, am I that bad?
No? Exactly exactly. I waslike, what did I do to make
him not want my vagina anymore?I have a terrible vagina. Now he
just likes dick, yeah, exactly, He's just it's not his thing.
It's not he's he says he's bisexual. I feel like he's probably gay but
doesn't want to because I feel likea lot of times in the like prior
(10:56):
history, a lot of men wouldlike cope, are copped to being bisexual
but not gay because gay was likeworse somehowpy bisexual? Yeah, like women
at all, I don't know.I don't know the mentality of the toxic
masculinity, but like I get youknow how this would be not so great
(11:16):
for her, and especially with theno sex thing, Like who wants to
be in a marriage where they don'thave sex? Yeah, I mean some
people might want to be Well,if you're happy with your partner and you
still have the sex to drive,you're gonna want sex, I would think.
And then not only that, butshe feels like undesirable, like she's
doing something wrong. You internalize itand then you're like, something wrong with
(11:37):
me. No, No, there'ssomething wrong with him, something wrong with
this guy. And you're gonna findout later it's not you. It's definitely
not you. So understandably, bynineteen seventy five, Carol is filing for
divorce from her second husband of alittle over three years. I would too
good for you, bitch, Getthe fuck out of there, Get the
(11:58):
funk out of there. So aroundthe same time Gacy was announcing his bisexuality
and his celibacy to Carol, hewas creating a couple of new characters,
and that would be Pogo, theclown whom most all die hard true Crown
fans are familiar with, and thenalso Patches the clown, who I was
(12:18):
not familiar with. He had twoclown persons. He had two clowns.
So, okay, are you gonnaget into like when he forms or why?
Yes, okay, so I'm gonnaget into that. And I'm even
gonna try to kind of show youa picture of Patches the clown with a
screen share, because that was like, who the fuck is the Patches seen
(12:39):
one picture of him as a clown. I guess that was his Pogo.
It was Pogo because it's that bluetriangle eyes. I think it was black
and white photo. I guess anyway, I had to really hunt down Patches.
Okay, that's just not out theremuch. So so he created Pogo
the clown and Patches the clown,and he said he created Pogo with the
(13:03):
mindset that this character would represent ahappy, cheerful clown, while Patches was
the more serious of the two.I don't think I have two separate clown
personalities. I know, I feellike if you're going to be a birthday
clown, you should probably only haveone. I feel like once you have
two clown personalities and sign that somethingis wrong it's like this shit, my
(13:24):
happy clown. It's like split.It's like that movie Split. So I'm
going to do a quick screen shareso you can see an image of Patches
the clown. Let me pull thisup. Oh I got scroll down to
it. I'll show you both becauseI bet you've seen Pogo, like you
said, I think so, I'veseen Pogo or Patches. It was one
of them. Okay, so theseare both Pogo. Okay. Yeah,
(13:50):
and the stripe that just very characteristic. Now Patches is just this guy.
It's just a different suit from whatI can tell. It's the same fucking
thing, the same thing, differentsuit though. Look at that clown makeup.
I know. I tried. It'snot even good. It's not even
good clomics. That's what I tried, and it was awful. And it's
completely literally just its lips, themouth like red. I hate it so
(14:18):
much. I know, I know. And somehow his picture of just him
is scarier than him is Pogo theclown. I know, I know,
I don't understand. I don't know. So. Gacy had been inspired to
create Pogo and Patches after learning abouta Jolly Joker clown club from his peers
(14:41):
at the local Moose club in theChicago area, So he joins this clown
club, the Jolly Jokers. Wasthis a big thing at the time.
I don't fucking know, because Ifeel like we've talked about this, the
clowns really aren't a big thing anymore. Yeah, And like, I've never
liked clowns. I've never once goneto a circus, And I'm like,
the clowns are coming. Have childrenever liked clowns? Like, ultimately,
(15:03):
I mean so, I'm sure somekids like clowns. Maybe some, but
like for the most part, they'rescary. Yeah, they're they're unsettling.
They're unsettling, And yeah, Idon't know. I mean, look at
us, we're scary. Look atthis face. Is the face only a
(15:24):
mother clown could love. Do youwant to walk into me at Croaker?
You want me to be sitting onthe end of your bed at mid night
they eating all your food, becauseThat's what I'd be doing. So the
Jolly Jokers performed at charity events,birthday parties, children's hospitals, et cetera.
And most of the time this wasall volunteer based work. They weren't,
you know, getting reimbursed for it. It's never been like a like
(15:46):
a money making, like liable career, like yeah, it's just enough to
cover the booze all of us eightday clowns. Yeah. And Gacy later
reported that he enjoyed his time timeas Pogo and Patches because he could reconnect
with his childhood when he was performing. I don't like them. I don't.
(16:07):
I'm okay with it, but like, I feel like there's an ulterior
motive. What is here? Whatis connecting with your childhood supposed to make
He gets to play around, Hegets to joe, he gets to have
fun and be lighthearted. I guessmy problem with this is that, to
me, you should never disconnect fromyour childhood, you know what I mean,
(16:29):
Like, but he did because hewas severely well. Sure, sure,
and that's where you get into likethe issues. But like, for
the most part, people are supposedto stay connected to what makes them like
laugh, and you should be ableto like play, like like the whole
Like, oh, video games orfor children are not like you should be
able to play as an adult too. It's just we make it not like
(16:51):
there's no great outlet for that.Well, and you're supposed to grow up
and be an adult and behave likean adult well and especially men. Yes,
exactly like you grow up, especiallyin the past more so than now,
even though they're still pressure. Timesare different now, but like you
know, historically, yeah, you'renot allowed to like have fun. Man,
(17:17):
he was, you know, justhad it. And I guess if
you have a bad childhood, you'rejust you're gonna disconnect from it. I
guess instead of reconnecting it. Iguess he's like reliving or retrying. Yeah,
he might be reliving and kind oftrying to really take advantage of those
experiences he didn't have as a kid. I feel like I feel like the
(17:40):
the privilege of someone to relive thechildhood is revoked once they murder something.
Yeah, yeah, you kind oftakes the magic out of it. Well
and murder, I'm like, murderand childhood, reliving your childhood, those
don't Those don't line up for me, does for him line up for me?
But so he would he would kindof, um, what's the word,
(18:03):
switch off between whether he was showingup as Pogo or Patches the clown,
just depending on the occasion, AndI guess how he was, how
he day he was having on theday he was having well see on his
period and then it was Patches,the more serious clown. So this affinity
for clowns is what leads to thenickname the killer clown. So that's where
he got that. Well, Imean the name is a serial killer if
(18:25):
you have a serial like most serialkillers don't dress as they aren't clowns.
They aren't moonlighting as clowns. Sohis was a particularly interesting case because of
the clown dynamic of it, whichdidn't have like a ton to do with
you know, his life or whatever. Well, it has nothing to do
with the murders, no, LikeI guess that he was also a clown
(18:47):
sometimes. But but it's the creepinessof like the clown mixed with oh,
this guy is a serial like howcan you go? I guess it's the
switch of how can you go froma child's birthday party where you perform as
a clown to make chill happy andlaugh? Yeah, kind of a big
jump. My thought too, islike I think this is this allowed him
(19:07):
to establish almost this almost this alibiwhere he hobby yes as a means of
further establishing himself as this playful,innocent, child friendly figure. They won't
kill anybody, and he even makesa statement to detectives during an interrogation,
which is simply clowns can get awaywith murder. I thought about doing a
(19:30):
voice, but whatever, creep anybodyd Unfortunately it doesn't. Oh, I
guess Huean's like, no one's gonnaquestion me. Yeah, no one's gonna
suspect. I mean, hey,that's how that's how female serial killers got
away for a long time. Likewomen can't hurt people. Women know gent
(19:52):
childre soft creatures with soft bones.They could hold a knife, So don't
make this. We're soft and squishy, and it's all. It's just anger.
It's all, that's all anger.I love the jokes people make about
like short women and stuff. Iknow how much anger is just compacted to
our tiny little bodies. It's shortmen. To people talk about how angry
(20:15):
short men aren't like people are soangry. Maybe that's why children scream so
much. They're short. Yeah,they're little. So while his life was
unraveling internally and these violent behaviors wereescalating, Gacy was gaining even more connections
in the community, and in nineteenseventy five he was appointed as Secretary treasurer
for the Norwood Township street Lighting District. And this is basically just a board
(20:41):
of electors or board members elected tohelp raise funds and lobby for street lighting.
And now I have a question foryou, Laura, what is one
of the main purposes sided for bringingadequate street lighting to communities? So,
like, why are they doing thisin the first place? Sucking safety?
Yes, so the answers fucking safety. Is the serial killer who's advocating for
(21:03):
street lights for safer streets? Yes, it's thought to be a deterrent to
crime to have adequate street lighting.So I thought that was pretty ironic.
That's kind of ironic, a littlebit ironic. And obviously the street lights
Shirre didn't deter Gacy didn't do shit. Well, especially if you're in a
fucking police uniform. It's just gonnahelp him out. Nineteen seventy five would
(21:27):
also be the year that Gasey committedanother murder, and in July, eighteen
year old John butt Kedich, thiswas an employee of Gasey's Pedium construction company,
disappeared. In reality, John waslured back to Gacy's home on the
premise of finally receiving some back paythat he was due, and while there,
(21:48):
Gasey strangled John and then buried himunder the concrete floor of the garage.
So I think initially there were plansto bury the body in the crawl
space alongside the other body, butGasey's family got home kind of interrupted that
process shit, and so he insteaddecides just a very John in the garage
because he was already planning to diga hole there. So I don't know
(22:12):
if some of the work had alreadybeen done, and it wouldn't create any
suspicion, I mean, not theworst fate of a victim that I've heard
from Gasey. So yeah, Iguess I would take strangled and buried in
abasement versus some of the other stuffthat comes later. Yeah. Yeah.
So now I'm I'm not going togo into detail on every murder, as
(22:34):
there are several victims and it wouldget to just be kind of gratuitous,
I think in some ways. ButI am going to kind of go over
the years, like an overview ofwhen he was active as a serial killer.
So Gacy appears to have gained someof his victims based on his access
to young men who were working forhim in that company, and then many
(22:56):
others were just from cruising some ofthe local parks and corners while dressed in
police attire. So again, it'sall about gaining trust. He really liked
to dress up. He did.He should have done a clown cop.
I think that would have been themost hilarious, hilarious. Hi, I'm
(23:17):
clo pe. He pulls out thosestupid guns where the flowers come out big
like Harley quinnshit. Yeah. So, over the course of nineteen seventy six,
gasy murdered seven young men whose agesranged from fourteen to eighteen years old.
In nineteen seventy seven, he continuedhis killing spree, murdering seven more
(23:40):
young men, possibly even eight,as a nineteen year old male was reported
missing, and I'm unclear. Idon't think his remains have ever been uncovered
or discovered, but it was suspectedthis individual was another one of Gaysey's victims
because he fits his type. He'syoung, it's a male, it's in
the Chicago area. Yeah. Inthe between nineteen seventy seven in nineteen seventy
eight, Gasey would murder at leastnine more young men and all of these
(24:06):
bodies, well, a lot ofthe bodies are discovered in his crawl space
later on. Bad place to hideyour bodies, by the way, I
don't put your bodies in the crawlspace, and that shit go stink.
I think he may have done thingsto try to mitigate that, like intigate
the smell of death. But thesmell of death it permeates pretty much everything.
(24:30):
It is something m It is hardto describe. Yeah, very hard,
it is. It is if youcan the worst thing that you have
ever smelled and then multiply that byone hundred um, especially depending on like
how decayed something is, and let'sbe honest, bodies in a crawl space
(24:52):
gonna be very decayed. Yeah,although he was familiar with the embalming process,
oh he was. He was.So I don't know that could I
mean, that's part of the reasonfor embalming, isn't it. Yeah,
to slow down and preserve the bodyin some ways, at least for the
for individuals to have their wake andtheir funeral and stuff. So I don't
(25:14):
want that. I don't know whatI want. I would just want to
be cremated and my organs donated toeither someone who needs it or the farm.
That's right, the body farked aboutthe body farm. Keep forgetting about
the body farm. Somewhere about that. She was not pleased. She was
like, I don't even want tothink about that. It's like too bad.
(25:36):
Just a body of that. Youknow, you're gonna get her a
T shirt? And my daughter died. It was this body farm T shirt,
my lashop, my last farewell tomy mother as I lay in my
deathbed. Get her shirt. Mydaughter's at the body farm. My daughter's
hanging out at the body farm.What did yours do for science? So
(25:59):
in like teen seventy eight, Gacycontinued killing young men in the Chicago region,
and his victim total this year wouldreach at least five more men.
But he also faced charges of kidnappingand deviant sexual assault. Because it's male
on male activity, still sexual assault, but deviant that's all it means.
And this occurred when he dresses apolice officer's surprised and no charges for impersonating
(26:25):
a police officer. I don't knowproblem, I don't fucking So he kidnaps
a twenty six year old male.He uses chloroform to disable his victim,
and he holds the young man captiveovernight, during which time he repeatedly rapes
him, but instead of killing thisyoung man, for some reason, he
lets him go the next morning.You know, that happens a lot with
(26:47):
serial killers up they get lazy,they don't think they're gonna get caught.
Sometimes I think it might be somethingabout that person. Oh okay, yeah,
So sometimes I think because you know, conversations are going to be had,
or at least you know, youhave no idea what took place between
him and that guy. Yeah,you know what I mean besides obviously the
(27:10):
you know, torture and rape,um, but like you don't know what
conversations were had. You don't know, he could have felt, um,
like maybe he related to that guyum or something, so he was like,
you know, he'd feel like thattiny tiny little bit of like,
um, empathy, I guess,yeah, that's what can cause. And
then they're like, okay, youcan go. And that's usually what folks
(27:33):
you will oh yes, exactly welland like like you're saying, empathy coming
into play. I also and it'snot that I necessarily think they want to
get caught, Like I don't knowthat I buy into that, Like there
have been very few. I thinkthere's a few that like wanted legitimately to
be caught. But I think alot of it is just you fall into
a habit when you've been doing somethingfor years. Yeah, you know what
(27:56):
I mean, You fall into habit, You get lazy, you cuts.
Maybe that day he just didn't feellike it. But you know, at
the same time, I wonder,like everyone has limits, everyone has breaking
points, Like did he hit onewith this guy? You know it was
some of the empathy. Was hetired of killing? I don't know.
(28:17):
I don't know, you'll never know, like and a lot of times,
even if you interview these people,they'll never tell you, give you the
run around, or they don't evenknow true, Yeah, they don't understand.
They don't know why him don't necessarilyunderstand why they do it in the
first place. So in May ofthe same year, so nineteen seventy eight,
Gasey and this is right after he'sdone this to this guy. M
(28:38):
Gacy gains clearance from the CIA tomeet First Lady Rosalind Carter, President Jimmy
Carter's wife during the Polish Day Paradein Chicago, and there are pictures of
him with her. Why why Ihave clearance to he's a construction worker and
a clown. Well he was,but he was in a lot of civics
(29:00):
organizations. He was on the boardof that lighting district. I think he
was just rubbing elbows with some veryimportant people, like two different worlds or
how she felt about that later.Oh Jesus, can you imagine. No,
I cannot to have come face toface with the with the not just
which I mean, she's not histype. She would have been fine.
But it's not that. It's thelooking them in the eye. It's the
(29:23):
you know it, and it's theit's the not knowing until later, Yeah,
and like having a good fresh impressionof that person and a good like
thinking and standing in your brain,and then later on finding out that they
literally tortured and killed raped guys.Yes, yeah, which is why I
always say, you never know somebody, not even your own family and or
(29:48):
spouses. I know, like youjust don't don't like that. Well,
you can't read other people's minds.No, I mean you can't, and
you can't know every single thing that'sgoing on, has gone on and will
go on. It's the it's thehuman condition. Kind of it's good and
fun, but so Gaycy. Youknow, he's rubbin elbows. He's in
(30:11):
with these powerful people, but histime is running out. As his most
recent victim, fifteen year old RobertPriest, goes missing in December nineteen seventy
eight after he goes to try toseek work with Gacy's company. Robert's mother
ends up notifying the police about herson's disappearance, and unsurprisingly, the police,
they got some questions for mister Gaycybased on, yeah, this kid
(30:34):
was supposedly come to see you.Did that happen? What the fuck happened?
Also, it's not like you haven'talready been arrested from actual being not
an okay guy, actions against boysand men boys mostly it's the worst part
of it. It's like as notall of its victims, but a lot
of his victims around date, somewere young or so. This questioning occurs
(30:59):
on December twelve, and the policewould then end up having Gaycy under constant
surveillance by December fourteenth. That wasquick. So Gaycey ends up trying to
kind of whine and dine the policeteam that's surveilling him. He even buys
them meals. He chats them upand he lets them know, like if
he's leaving the house, he stops, He's like, hey, I'm going
(31:19):
here, guys. So he's veryamicable, very jovial with them. Okay,
but he is apprehended for drug relatedcharges only like seven days later,
so December twenty first, and thepolice are then able to obtain a search
warrant. Gotta be real careful whenyou're like already like in trouble, because
(31:42):
they can pop you for goddamn anything. Well, yeah, I'm care And
if they want to bring you andyou're doing drunk, like what the fuck
you doing? Look, you havepolice surveillance on you, and you know,
because you're talking to them. Ithink he's gotten overly confident. He
does kind he's like yeah, likeRobin elbows like they're kind of like,
why no, Yeah, guess what. I think he's gonna get caught.
(32:06):
It doesn't matter who, you know, most people aren't comfortable with, you
know, murder true or homosexuality backin the seventies. Oh yeah, so
like you got to target on yourback if they know anything about this.
Yeah. So the next day theyare searching the gay cy property and they
discover human remains in the homes crawlspace, and just six days later,
(32:30):
while police have continued just excavating theproperty, Gaycy ends up confessing to thirty
three murders. He goes on toeven provide police with the detailed drawing of
a map showing the locations of thevictims in the crawl space and in the
garage, and he even leads policeto the bodies of several victims who he
had just dumped in the de PlaneRiver. So he's got like three dumping
(32:52):
grounds. She's getting like, it'slike, ah, I'll bury him in
the crawl space, but if I'mlazy, I'll just know him in the
l them in the river. LikeI don't I don't like this one.
I don't like the way this onelooks. So I can never imagine being
the police officers who have to gointo that crawl space to go It's like,
I have thirty three people into mycrawl space. Here you go and
(33:13):
you're like, yeah, great,which I guess, like they're spread around,
like I don't know how many werein the crawl space. It was.
It was a lot, well alot specifically in the crawl space,
but also if it's kind of crawlspace, like like my parents have at
their house. It spans the entirebottom of the house. Like the whole
week out of the house is acrawl space. It's a lot of space
(33:35):
space, bodies anything, but yeah, yeah, So police now have the
bodies to back up the confession andto help convict Gaycy of multiple counts of
murder. His trial begins February nineteeneighty, so just a little over one
year since he's arrested, and he, of course pleads not guilty by reason
(33:57):
of insanity. I really hate thatfence a lot. Now. I get
it because I could definitely say ifsomebody like murdered my husband right in front
of me, I would probably attemptto murder them. Yeah, just based
on my own anger and feelings.So I understand the basis for temporary insanity
(34:17):
or insanity or whatever, But mostpeople who claim that aren't insane. Yeah,
they're just trying to get off.They're trying to get away with doing
what they did. That is insane. Sure, but they didn't do it
because you know, like I mean, the son of Sam, like that
classifies insane. The dog told himto do it, you know what,
(34:39):
I would, But the more I'velearned about him, the more I think
that's bullshit. Oh really Yeah,Now I don't want to like point blanks
make that full statement, but likecover it later on in another episode.
I'm sure. I think he wasa piece of work and he knew what
he was doing. I mean it'spossible. I mean, and that's the
problem with the insanity. Please,that it's really easy to say God told
(35:00):
me to do it. Yeah,yeah, how can you? Insane doesn't
mean mentally ill? No, like, and I think that that gets forgotten
and lost in translation. It's like, yes, he was mentally ill,
he was not insane. No,because there are people who are mentally ill
who kill people who do not getaway with the insanity, please, because
(35:21):
they weren't insane and they knew exactlyThe insanity thing just means that they didn't
know what they were doing, waswhat they're or like the different they don't
know the difference between this is rightand this is wrong, or you know
whatever. They didn't have control overthis situation. Yeah, just because you're
mentally ill, like I'm I'm mentallyyeah, Like I'm mentally ill, and
(35:43):
I'm not going to get away withkilling somebody because I have depression. I
hope not. I hope that doesn'tbecome a defense. So I'm depressed.
Well, welcome to a ran.I'm going to kill this person that's been
tailgating me for the past ten miles. Yeah, road rage, right,
rage, it's a thing, itis. And just to put it out
there, I don't plan to killanyone that's tailgating me. Oh so good,
(36:07):
Yeah good, I do. No, I'm just kidding. So,
so Gasie pleads not guilty about reasonof insanity, and he even goes on
to recant his confession, and heclaims that this is quote unquote his alter
ego that made a false confession.So he's claiming he's got like this other
split side of himself that which falselyconfess, which is not even like the
(36:30):
actual clinical diagnosis either. It's notan even um dissociative identity disorder, which
is multiple personalities doesn't mean when youthink it means, though it doesn't.
And it has been very much overrepresentedin terms of like immediate, how common
it is and if it even exists, And we are still very split in
(36:52):
our community of whether we think it'sa real diagnosis or not. You're split
over split personalities. Now we arewe're split. We're split, We're split
over split personalities, split split.Well you don't know, I mean you
all you have to go on iswhat this person is telling you or signs,
which I'm sorry, but like basedon movies and stuff that, like
(37:14):
you know, media and stuff,I could probably fake split personality disorder.
Yeah, you know what I mean. Like in a lot of times,
it's just trauma. That's the resultof intense trauma, and that's a lot
of it is just like it's it'sdisassociating, yes, from your trauma,
which is what gives it, likethe dissociative you know, identity disorders.
(37:35):
But like you know, this mecan't handle this right now, so I'm
going to check it out yep.And the other me yep. The same
person, but different sides of yourpersonality. Yes, I guess. Yeah,
And you know, yeah, andI'll have to I may have to
visit that at some point if itbecomes applicable. But yeah, it's an
interesting one. It is. Sothe evidence against Gaycy was solid at this
(37:59):
point point. So this, youknow, no shit, he has people
in his basement. Yeah, yeah, they've got like multiple bodies multiple murder
victims, and the jury only deliberatesfor about two hours before convicting him.
Oh that's short. A few hours, and in March of the same year
he is sentenced. So he receivestwenty one life sentences and twelve death sentences,
(38:23):
which I've never might notice equals thirtythree. I've never understood it.
Well, I've seen that happen alot to where you get one count per
per per victim. Yeah. WhatI don't understand is like why, like
you receive twenty one life doesn't seemexcessive. It does, and a life
(38:44):
sentence should be a life sentence basedon how long you live, not the
average you. I don't know howmuch of it is either how the law
is written and these are the sentenceswe give based on the crimes you've committed,
or trying to prove a point oflike it's justice, probably both a
(39:05):
little mix of both. Making surehe can't fucking get paroled. Well,
that's my problem with life sentences isthat people get life sentences and then they
get a you know, off inten years for good behavior. You're off
on good behavior any years, onehundred percent structured environment where you couldn't just
do whatever the fuck you wanting.And you've had somebody watching you twenty four
(39:27):
seven, and we know it's notremediative. It doesn't remedy things. It
makes a lot of shit worse.Yeah, people just can't fuck up as
easily. But hey, they werepretending like they were good people, so
let's let them out back into thepopulation. Hey, they were well behaved
in a place that punishes you severelywhen you're not. And then you and
then you give them freedom game,and no shit, they fall back into
(39:50):
the same exact patterns as before.You're not helping them. And some people
can't be helped. It's like theycan't get a job now when they can't
get a job now too. Yeah, and what are you supposed to do
when you're you know, been incarceratedor whatever. And you were incarcerated in
the first place because you are froma low income area and trying to fucking
do something to make money to live. Yeah, and then they put you
(40:14):
in prison and then you get out, and then you're barred from getting a
job. Yep. And don't getme wrong, I get it. I've
worked in places that have had thepolicy of not hiring convicts or whatever,
and I get it, like Idon't. I wouldn't want to work side
by side to somebody who's been convictedof murder. Sure, but I'm perfectly
happy working side by side to somebodywho's been in the pot yeah something.
(40:37):
It's like, oh, dic,I don't care. I don't care.
I know if it's a non violentcrime like well, and you're not giving
them the opportunity. You put themin jail for years to rehabilitate, and
then you let them out and youdon't want them to work anywhere. They
can't reintegrate into society in the waythat they need to, so they start
(41:00):
in crimes again to make money orthey or they just suffer, you know.
They either go back to a lifeof crime to make money or make
money and they struggle even more.Some people reoffend just to go back to
prison where they feel comfortable. Yeah. Yeah, that's terrible and it's a
(41:21):
roof over their head food roof.Yep, you know what I mean.
Ridiculous Anyway, so he he getsthe thirty three sentences, one for each
victim. Gaysy goes on to filenumerous appeals to try and avoid execution,
and while sitting on death row.He began his painting career. Have you
heard about this? Is it clowns? Yeah? I feel like mainly clowns.
(41:47):
So he focuses on clown pictures forthe most part, and he ends
up selling many of these paintings whilehe's in prison. And Laura, I'm
going to share my screen again.And this is but this is one of
the more infamous or famous non clownpaintings. Okay, let it looks like
a three year old did it.Actually no, now this was added like
(42:13):
this isn't a thing, but heput that. And then this is his
house that he didn't want painting of. That's pretty good shading, I mean,
pretty good lines. I think there'sthe clown back there. I just
know I don't love that. Hissignature is his weird clown thing. Well,
and this is like the company didthis one because I wish it wouldn't
that. I know. I'm notgonna say, look, I'm a freak.
(42:37):
I would probably buy a painting thatwas painted by John Wayne Gacy just
to well, like have I feellike I feel like a bad person if
you go to murder action dot Com. I'm not going to do that now.
Guess how Guess how much this wassold for. Well, I don't
(42:58):
know if it's sold, the auctionclosed, but guess how much they were
trying to sell it for and valueit at in twenty seventeen. How much?
Thousands of dollars? Thousands, Yes, but that's a broad range.
Um, I'm gonna go under tenthousands. Oh, okay, hundred and
seventy five thousand dollars one seventy fivemore than a house. It's a house,
(43:22):
Okay, I told a house paintingfor a house. Here's my I
know, and not even a reallygood one I know. So here's my
thing is. So I wouldn't wantto buy a John Wayne Gaycy painting from
John Wayne Gazy because I wouldn't wantto contribute money to this dude. I
know, I would like to,like I would. I'm the kind of
(43:45):
person who would buy a painting thatwas painted by John Wayne Gazy if it
was like being sold for charity forsystems of John Wayne Gacy or there.
Yes, that's a great idea,you know what I mean? Can we
do that? I'm sick. I'ma sick fuck, so, like it's
interesting to me, but I wouldn'twant like I wouldn't. I wouldn't buy
(44:06):
something like that if I if itwas profitable for that person, you know
what I mean, because they're aterrible Like I get it, they made
it. Yeah, but like he'sdead, Yeah, so where's that money
go? Well, he goes tothese people, the people around yeah,
right right, So if it wasbeing sold for some kind of benefit victim
(44:29):
benefit, not remedy, but likeyeah, benefit to people who were affected
by this person, or future youknow, future study of this kind of
thing, like something, if itwas for like some psychological study or something,
or like trying to fund some kindof you know study, but like
only after the person. Yeah yeah, not not to them directly, not
(44:52):
benefiting them directly. No, notbenefiting them directly. And it's it's just
interesting to me. First of all, they give pain the first place,
Um, but this is dude's like, I mean, I guess they have
to have things to do. Yeah, and they're on death row. I
think sometimes on death row get alittle bit of special treatment. Well because
(45:14):
they're gonna die. Yeah, Butit's also really annoying because again, death
row, it's frustrating because it canbe years and years and years and years
before somebody actually faces their death sentence, which they're supposed to receive. Um.
But it's also good sometimes that thatdoes take so long, because a
lot of times we have incorrectly garceratedsomebody and have sentenced them to death and
(45:39):
they don't deserve it. Yeah,so that's a very tricky system. Yeah,
I need to do better at gettingshit right. But um, but
yeah, I would buy a Gacy. I would buy a Cacy original if
I was a rich person and itwas going to some kind of fucking I
don't know, but I can't figureI can't. I can't decide. Part
(46:00):
of me really wants to when theother part is like do I want to
cross that line? I'll cross it. I'm under sorry, I'll collect weird
and you can come look at it. I would come visit your serial killer
memorabilia. But yeah, Yeah,it's just it's such a it's like it's
almost like writing the line of um, like commemorating serial killers. Yes,
(46:28):
you know what I mean. It'sit's riding the line of like, oh,
I'd have to figure out what mypurpose and intention was to owning it
first, Yeah, because I don'twant to buy it and then hate myself
for it or feel bad about itor feel dirty or guilty. I feel
like I would love to buy thingslike like if I was rich, I
would buy things like that and maybeit make like a attraction or museum or
(46:50):
something like that that I can thendonate money for to mental health organizations and
yeah, first victims families. OhI wonder if you could, you could
do it for the Wrongful Conviction,Yeah, the Freedom Project, Yeah,
you know, stuff like that.Like I feel like I would because I
know there are a lot of peoplewho are interested in fucked up shit like
(47:13):
I am. You know, Imean, there's nothing wrong. Yeah,
you know what I mean, there'snothing as long as you're not hurting anyone
else. But for me, itwould have to be like beneficial in some
good way to make that, like, um, like for a trade off.
Yeah, like, yes, Iam buying a painting that was done.
Yeah, kind of the balancing thescales, right, Yeah, it's
(47:36):
like fine, you know, yes, a gaycy painting is making money,
but let's make it make money forsomething good yep, you know, or
or rehabilitation places for people who mightbe you know, just yeah. Yeah,
So regardless of his painting skills skials. Regardless of his painting skills,
Gaycy would be put to death bylethal injection at the age of fifty two
(48:00):
years old. And this is onMay tenth, nineteen ninety four, So
he was in there for how long? So fourteen years give or take.
And his supposed last words were,kiss my ass. That doesn't look look
at that dude's picture. Kiss myass seems like it would be his last
words. It seems like something he'dhave tattooed on himself somewhere. Like he
(48:23):
just seems like a cratchy old curmudgeon. Yeah, yeah, he's he's just
most of his mug shots and prisonshots he's just yeah, got an browny
sneer. No wonder he painted hissmile. He's patches now, He's definitely
patches while he's in prison. Nowhe's patches in hell. Um Like that's
(48:49):
what you get when you go tohell. Dis patches the clown Great great,
I'm gonna be surrounded by clowns whenI'm in Hell for talking about these
kinds of Yeah. So, andthat's it for Gacy. Thank you so
much for joining us. If youwant to leave us a review, or
if you have any feedback. Youcan send us a message on social media,
(49:13):
or go to our website, whichis simply Terrible People doing terrible things
dot WordPress dot com. And remember, terrible people are everywhere, sore clowns,
our clouds, and you might justbe a clown back.
Welcome to terrible people doing terrible things. I'm Laura, a true crime and
horror fan who enjoys researching dark andtwisted stories. And I'm Amanda, and
I'm a licensed psychologist who enjoys studyingthe worst of humanity. So for those
of you listening audio only, Iwould very strongly encourage you to visit our
YouTube channel and see what the hellwe've got going on with our faces right
(00:40):
now, because it's hard to explain, but I look like a sadistic clown
joker villain. Yeah, you looklike a You look like a hot marrionette
that's about to fucking rob a bank, as we look like currently. If
you put on like a black catsuit, mmmmmm, I could see you
(01:04):
doing like like you're a mime.Yes, Like that's like murdering and robbing
a bank, yes, but likeall catwoman, like all acrobatic and shit,
that's what I see. It's likeI'm kind of turned on and threatened
right now. Oh little, yeah, yeah, little, I look like
um my internal monologue of my highschool career. So it's not what I
(01:26):
looked like in high school, butthis is what I think I looked like
inside. Its sad, sad,angsty little teenager, I would explain my
clown face. Yeah. Well,and you even took the opportunity to put
on a blue wig, which Ilove. I like the wigs. I'm
(01:48):
feeling fucking with it. I mean, I'm gonna be honest though, it's
your teeth and the shit out ofme. So yeah, yeah, So,
and the reason we are dressed thisway is because today, Laura and
you part two of John Wayne Gaycythe Killer Clown, So finally donning our
face makeup as clown makeup, asI think one listener had kind of requested
(02:10):
almost at one point. So yeah, so here you go. You're well,
you're welcome. I hope you're happy. We haunt your nightmares. I
hope you. I hope you havesleep paralysis and this is what you wake
up too. It's hot out.I'm like haunting my own nightmares now right,
I'm probably going to haunt my ownI'll drink about this later. Yeah.
(02:35):
So I'm going to be wrapping upthe story on mister John Wayne Gacy
Junior. And this is part two. And in part one, I discussed
his origin story, the initial arrestsand crimes, and even revealed his first
murder victim, and that was fifteenyear old Timothy McCoy, who was stabbed
to death in nineteen seventy two andlater buried in the now infamous crawl space
(02:57):
of the Gaycy residence. The firstone to showing the crawl space. Yes,
yes, the first murder victim inthe crawl space. So, continuing
where I left off last time,you may be surprised to learn that Gacy
actually got married the same year hecommitted his first murder. Honestly, doesn't
surprise me, considering that he islike a possibly like uh, closeted gay.
(03:23):
Yeah, I mean it's hard,it's hard to define people's sexuality.
So I don't want to say thathe's like a closeted gay because he might
be a closeted bisexual. He's inthe closet and very angry about it.
Yes, yes, he is strugglingwith those sexual feelings. So it doesn't
surprise me that he, like,you know, society couldn't tra Actually,
(03:44):
i'll be obligates you to marry awoman in these times, So it doesn't
surprise me that he married a woman. And then maybe that like triggered his
like I fall you hate this andyeah, yeah, started killing young men.
Yeah. So he married a missCarroll Huff, and she was also
a divorcee because if you remember,he had been married for a while prior
(04:05):
to this, a few years,so miss Huff was a divorcee. And
this was in June nineteen seventy two. In that same month, while dressed
in full on police attire, Gaycylured and then viciously assaulted a twenty four
year old male who was unwilling toperform oral sex on him. So he
had picked up this guy wanted himto give him a blowjob dressed in so
(04:29):
he's he's impersonating a police officer,so he guess, oh yes, so
and this goes on to be likeone of the ways, one of the
many ways he has access to victimsand gains their trust modus operasm. And
this assault did land him in troublewith the police, the real police,
(04:51):
and he was arrested and charged withaggravated battery. But and this I still
can't wrap my brain around. Idon't know what the hell happened. So
his charges were dropped, and thiswas supposedly due to the fact that Gaycey
kind of filed the same charges againstthe victim. How does that work?
So he so I And I guessnow that I'm actually saying it out loud,
(05:14):
it makes a little more sense.So I guess maybe that it became
kind of this he said, hesaid situation where it's like no, no,
no, he assaulted me, Nono, no, he assaulted me,
and the cops are just like,fuck it, we're not dealing with
it. Well, they don't.They don't have your stereotypical heterosexual like yes,
sexual dispute to deal with. SoI'm sure they're not very comfortable,
(05:38):
well versed, or comfortable dealing withyou know, like they don't even they
didn't even deal with like, youknow, male on female sexual assault like
properly, so I doubt that theywould still still don't. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, And so I don't know. When I was first reading in
that, I was like, doesit just cancel the other out? So
(05:59):
like one linus one to zero.But I think it is just literally they
probably didn't have enough evidence to reallyknow who was telling the truth at that
point. Yeah, And I mean, you can't convict one if you like
don't have the evidence you need.I guess, yeah, so nothing came
of that. But back at thegay family home. In nineteen seventy three,
(06:19):
Gaysey ordered his mother to move outof the shared home. So he
gets married to Carol. Huh,he's been sharing at home with his mom
and he's like, get the fuckout. You need to get out of
here. And so Carol and hertwo daughters she has from another relationship end
up moving into the Gaycy home tostart their new, happy little family.
(06:40):
Yeah, that's what I want tobe as a child in that home.
So Gaycy begins working as a contractorthis same year and he ends up forming
the PDM Construction company, so he'sa business owner now sure, okay.
And the same year he has astroke. So did we did he have
(07:02):
a head injury? Yes, sowe have a head injury, as we
often do, and now we alsohave a stroke. Yeah. Well,
and the seizures. You know,he was epileptic, he was having uncontrolled
seizures. He had the brain bleedfrom the swing hitting him, which was
the brain injury. The head injury. He has a lot of problems,
so he does. And I don'tI don't understand how he's alive. Sheer
(07:27):
force of will, Oh God,yeah, it's like, um, who
was it brutos that got electrocuted andhe was fucking fine? Like why um?
Because life is unjust unfair and thepeople who should die don't. Yes,
yes, So he seems to haverecovered from this event with little to
no lasting effects. Of course,I like how they say that, but
(07:50):
this guy is a murderer. Welltrue, but in terms of like,
he's not hurting, he's not havingphysical limitations, right, he doesn't like
limping or having probable like speaking orwhatever. Yeah. So, in addition
to the mounting health issues, itappears his marriage was also suffering surprise,
surprise. It wouldn't be long beforeCarol realized Gacey was a bizarre and maybe
(08:16):
even unhinged individual as she struggled tocope with what she described as as ever
changing moods and his recently revealed sexualpreferences. So these preferences included what she
called an obsession with homosexual pornographic magazines, as well as Gacy's admission to his
wife that he was bisexual in nineteenseventy four. So he admits to her
(08:39):
he's interested in men, but hesays it's bisexuality, and it very well
could be okay, I mean,I get why she's uncomfortable with her,
like, especially at the time,like you know, people were very very
homophobic and stuff, so it's notsomething that's easy to deal with. But
it doesn't really like to me.I guess it's just a time time period
(09:01):
kind of thing because now, iflike your husband was like, I'm bisexual
and I also like men, likea lot of younger people would probably be
like, okay, like, justdon't I mean, and you count on
me, Yeah, regardless of thesex of the person that you cheat on
me with, just don't cheat.Just don't do it, because it could
(09:22):
easily be a woman or a man. And I think exactly and not to
like derail it too much, butI see why that's a little more threatening.
Sure, it's a whole another populationthat your significant other finds attractive and
who might find them attractive. It'sI'm not a man, so I can't
give that can't And it's even morepeople available now that contempts that. They
(09:45):
make strap offs for that. Iknow it's pegging, but no, you
like what you like, you don'tlike which don't like? Yea, you
know a lot of people enjoy ita lot of people don't, but I
can understand why his wife may beemotionally distressed well, and the other piece
about this. So he makes thisannouncement basically at the same time, he
(10:07):
also decides to inform her they areno longer going to be having sex.
Oh well, okay, and hedoes. He apparently does this right after
they finish having sex. He's like, we're not having sex anymore. Okay.
So this poor woman, because like, can you imagine you're like having
sex with a guy and then immediatelyafter you're done, he's like, we're
(10:31):
not having sex anymore. My firstthought is, am I that bad?
No? Exactly exactly. I waslike, what did I do to make
him not want my vagina anymore?I have a terrible vagina. Now he
just likes dick, yeah, exactly, He's just it's not his thing.
It's not he's he says he's bisexual. I feel like he's probably gay but
doesn't want to because I feel likea lot of times in the like prior
(10:56):
history, a lot of men wouldlike cope, are copped to being bisexual
but not gay because gay was likeworse somehowpy bisexual? Yeah, like women
at all, I don't know.I don't know the mentality of the toxic
masculinity, but like I get youknow how this would be not so great
(11:16):
for her, and especially with theno sex thing, Like who wants to
be in a marriage where they don'thave sex? Yeah, I mean some
people might want to be Well,if you're happy with your partner and you
still have the sex to drive,you're gonna want sex, I would think.
And then not only that, butshe feels like undesirable, like she's
doing something wrong. You internalize itand then you're like, something wrong with
(11:37):
me. No, No, there'ssomething wrong with him, something wrong with
this guy. And you're gonna findout later it's not you. It's definitely
not you. So understandably, bynineteen seventy five, Carol is filing for
divorce from her second husband of alittle over three years. I would too
good for you, bitch, Getthe fuck out of there, Get the
(11:58):
funk out of there. So aroundthe same time Gacy was announcing his bisexuality
and his celibacy to Carol, hewas creating a couple of new characters,
and that would be Pogo, theclown whom most all die hard true Crown
fans are familiar with, and thenalso Patches the clown, who I was
(12:18):
not familiar with. He had twoclown persons. He had two clowns.
So, okay, are you gonnaget into like when he forms or why?
Yes, okay, so I'm gonnaget into that. And I'm even
gonna try to kind of show youa picture of Patches the clown with a
screen share, because that was like, who the fuck is the Patches seen
(12:39):
one picture of him as a clown. I guess that was his Pogo.
It was Pogo because it's that bluetriangle eyes. I think it was black
and white photo. I guess anyway, I had to really hunt down Patches.
Okay, that's just not out theremuch. So so he created Pogo
the clown and Patches the clown,and he said he created Pogo with the
(13:03):
mindset that this character would represent ahappy, cheerful clown, while Patches was
the more serious of the two.I don't think I have two separate clown
personalities. I know, I feellike if you're going to be a birthday
clown, you should probably only haveone. I feel like once you have
two clown personalities and sign that somethingis wrong it's like this shit, my
(13:24):
happy clown. It's like split.It's like that movie Split. So I'm
going to do a quick screen shareso you can see an image of Patches
the clown. Let me pull thisup. Oh I got scroll down to
it. I'll show you both becauseI bet you've seen Pogo, like you
said, I think so, I'veseen Pogo or Patches. It was one
of them. Okay, so theseare both Pogo. Okay. Yeah,
(13:50):
and the stripe that just very characteristic. Now Patches is just this guy.
It's just a different suit from whatI can tell. It's the same fucking
thing, the same thing, differentsuit though. Look at that clown makeup.
I know. I tried. It'snot even good. It's not even
good clomics. That's what I tried, and it was awful. And it's
completely literally just its lips, themouth like red. I hate it so
(14:18):
much. I know, I know. And somehow his picture of just him
is scarier than him is Pogo theclown. I know, I know,
I don't understand. I don't know. So. Gacy had been inspired to
create Pogo and Patches after learning abouta Jolly Joker clown club from his peers
(14:41):
at the local Moose club in theChicago area, So he joins this clown
club, the Jolly Jokers. Wasthis a big thing at the time.
I don't fucking know, because Ifeel like we've talked about this, the
clowns really aren't a big thing anymore. Yeah, And like, I've never
liked clowns. I've never once goneto a circus, And I'm like,
the clowns are coming. Have childrenever liked clowns? Like, ultimately,
(15:03):
I mean so, I'm sure somekids like clowns. Maybe some, but
like for the most part, they'rescary. Yeah, they're they're unsettling.
They're unsettling, And yeah, Idon't know. I mean, look at
us, we're scary. Look atthis face. Is the face only a
(15:24):
mother clown could love. Do youwant to walk into me at Croaker?
You want me to be sitting onthe end of your bed at mid night
they eating all your food, becauseThat's what I'd be doing. So the
Jolly Jokers performed at charity events,birthday parties, children's hospitals, et cetera.
And most of the time this wasall volunteer based work. They weren't,
you know, getting reimbursed for it. It's never been like a like
(15:46):
a money making, like liable career, like yeah, it's just enough to
cover the booze all of us eightday clowns. Yeah. And Gacy later
reported that he enjoyed his time timeas Pogo and Patches because he could reconnect
with his childhood when he was performing. I don't like them. I don't.
(16:07):
I'm okay with it, but like, I feel like there's an ulterior
motive. What is here? Whatis connecting with your childhood supposed to make
He gets to play around, Hegets to joe, he gets to have
fun and be lighthearted. I guessmy problem with this is that, to
me, you should never disconnect fromyour childhood, you know what I mean,
(16:29):
Like, but he did because hewas severely well. Sure, sure,
and that's where you get into likethe issues. But like, for
the most part, people are supposedto stay connected to what makes them like
laugh, and you should be ableto like play, like like the whole
Like, oh, video games orfor children are not like you should be
able to play as an adult too. It's just we make it not like
(16:51):
there's no great outlet for that.Well, and you're supposed to grow up
and be an adult and behave likean adult well and especially men. Yes,
exactly like you grow up, especiallyin the past more so than now,
even though they're still pressure. Timesare different now, but like you
know, historically, yeah, you'renot allowed to like have fun. Man,
(17:17):
he was, you know, justhad it. And I guess if
you have a bad childhood, you'rejust you're gonna disconnect from it. I
guess instead of reconnecting it. Iguess he's like reliving or retrying. Yeah,
he might be reliving and kind oftrying to really take advantage of those
experiences he didn't have as a kid. I feel like I feel like the
(17:40):
the privilege of someone to relive thechildhood is revoked once they murder something.
Yeah, yeah, you kind oftakes the magic out of it. Well
and murder, I'm like, murderand childhood, reliving your childhood, those
don't Those don't line up for me, does for him line up for me?
But so he would he would kindof, um, what's the word,
(18:03):
switch off between whether he was showingup as Pogo or Patches the clown,
just depending on the occasion, AndI guess how he was, how
he day he was having on theday he was having well see on his
period and then it was Patches,the more serious clown. So this affinity
for clowns is what leads to thenickname the killer clown. So that's where
he got that. Well, Imean the name is a serial killer if
(18:25):
you have a serial like most serialkillers don't dress as they aren't clowns.
They aren't moonlighting as clowns. Sohis was a particularly interesting case because of
the clown dynamic of it, whichdidn't have like a ton to do with
you know, his life or whatever. Well, it has nothing to do
with the murders, no, LikeI guess that he was also a clown
(18:47):
sometimes. But but it's the creepinessof like the clown mixed with oh,
this guy is a serial like howcan you go? I guess it's the
switch of how can you go froma child's birthday party where you perform as
a clown to make chill happy andlaugh? Yeah, kind of a big
jump. My thought too, islike I think this is this allowed him
(19:07):
to establish almost this almost this alibiwhere he hobby yes as a means of
further establishing himself as this playful,innocent, child friendly figure. They won't
kill anybody, and he even makesa statement to detectives during an interrogation,
which is simply clowns can get awaywith murder. I thought about doing a
(19:30):
voice, but whatever, creep anybodyd Unfortunately it doesn't. Oh, I
guess Huean's like, no one's gonnaquestion me. Yeah, no one's gonna
suspect. I mean, hey,that's how that's how female serial killers got
away for a long time. Likewomen can't hurt people. Women know gent
(19:52):
childre soft creatures with soft bones.They could hold a knife, So don't
make this. We're soft and squishy, and it's all. It's just anger.
It's all, that's all anger.I love the jokes people make about
like short women and stuff. Iknow how much anger is just compacted to
our tiny little bodies. It's shortmen. To people talk about how angry
(20:15):
short men aren't like people are soangry. Maybe that's why children scream so
much. They're short. Yeah,they're little. So while his life was
unraveling internally and these violent behaviors wereescalating, Gacy was gaining even more connections
in the community, and in nineteenseventy five he was appointed as Secretary treasurer
for the Norwood Township street Lighting District. And this is basically just a board
(20:41):
of electors or board members elected tohelp raise funds and lobby for street lighting.
And now I have a question foryou, Laura, what is one
of the main purposes sided for bringingadequate street lighting to communities? So,
like, why are they doing thisin the first place? Sucking safety?
Yes, so the answers fucking safety. Is the serial killer who's advocating for
(21:03):
street lights for safer streets? Yes, it's thought to be a deterrent to
crime to have adequate street lighting.So I thought that was pretty ironic.
That's kind of ironic, a littlebit ironic. And obviously the street lights
Shirre didn't deter Gacy didn't do shit. Well, especially if you're in a
fucking police uniform. It's just gonnahelp him out. Nineteen seventy five would
(21:27):
also be the year that Gasey committedanother murder, and in July, eighteen
year old John butt Kedich, thiswas an employee of Gasey's Pedium construction company,
disappeared. In reality, John waslured back to Gacy's home on the
premise of finally receiving some back paythat he was due, and while there,
(21:48):
Gasey strangled John and then buried himunder the concrete floor of the garage.
So I think initially there were plansto bury the body in the crawl
space alongside the other body, butGasey's family got home kind of interrupted that
process shit, and so he insteaddecides just a very John in the garage
because he was already planning to diga hole there. So I don't know
(22:12):
if some of the work had alreadybeen done, and it wouldn't create any
suspicion, I mean, not theworst fate of a victim that I've heard
from Gasey. So yeah, Iguess I would take strangled and buried in
abasement versus some of the other stuffthat comes later. Yeah. Yeah.
So now I'm I'm not going togo into detail on every murder, as
(22:34):
there are several victims and it wouldget to just be kind of gratuitous,
I think in some ways. ButI am going to kind of go over
the years, like an overview ofwhen he was active as a serial killer.
So Gacy appears to have gained someof his victims based on his access
to young men who were working forhim in that company, and then many
(22:56):
others were just from cruising some ofthe local parks and corners while dressed in
police attire. So again, it'sall about gaining trust. He really liked
to dress up. He did.He should have done a clown cop.
I think that would have been themost hilarious, hilarious. Hi, I'm
(23:17):
clo pe. He pulls out thosestupid guns where the flowers come out big
like Harley quinnshit. Yeah. So, over the course of nineteen seventy six,
gasy murdered seven young men whose agesranged from fourteen to eighteen years old.
In nineteen seventy seven, he continuedhis killing spree, murdering seven more
(23:40):
young men, possibly even eight,as a nineteen year old male was reported
missing, and I'm unclear. Idon't think his remains have ever been uncovered
or discovered, but it was suspectedthis individual was another one of Gaysey's victims
because he fits his type. He'syoung, it's a male, it's in
the Chicago area. Yeah. Inthe between nineteen seventy seven in nineteen seventy
eight, Gasey would murder at leastnine more young men and all of these
(24:06):
bodies, well, a lot ofthe bodies are discovered in his crawl space
later on. Bad place to hideyour bodies, by the way, I
don't put your bodies in the crawlspace, and that shit go stink.
I think he may have done thingsto try to mitigate that, like intigate
the smell of death. But thesmell of death it permeates pretty much everything.
(24:30):
It is something m It is hardto describe. Yeah, very hard,
it is. It is if youcan the worst thing that you have
ever smelled and then multiply that byone hundred um, especially depending on like
how decayed something is, and let'sbe honest, bodies in a crawl space
(24:52):
gonna be very decayed. Yeah,although he was familiar with the embalming process,
oh he was. He was.So I don't know that could I
mean, that's part of the reasonfor embalming, isn't it. Yeah,
to slow down and preserve the bodyin some ways, at least for the
for individuals to have their wake andtheir funeral and stuff. So I don't
(25:14):
want that. I don't know whatI want. I would just want to
be cremated and my organs donated toeither someone who needs it or the farm.
That's right, the body farked aboutthe body farm. Keep forgetting about
the body farm. Somewhere about that. She was not pleased. She was
like, I don't even want tothink about that. It's like too bad.
(25:36):
Just a body of that. Youknow, you're gonna get her a
T shirt? And my daughter died. It was this body farm T shirt,
my lashop, my last farewell tomy mother as I lay in my
deathbed. Get her shirt. Mydaughter's at the body farm. My daughter's
hanging out at the body farm.What did yours do for science? So
(25:59):
in like teen seventy eight, Gacycontinued killing young men in the Chicago region,
and his victim total this year wouldreach at least five more men.
But he also faced charges of kidnappingand deviant sexual assault. Because it's male
on male activity, still sexual assault, but deviant that's all it means.
And this occurred when he dresses apolice officer's surprised and no charges for impersonating
(26:25):
a police officer. I don't knowproblem, I don't fucking So he kidnaps
a twenty six year old male.He uses chloroform to disable his victim,
and he holds the young man captiveovernight, during which time he repeatedly rapes
him, but instead of killing thisyoung man, for some reason, he
lets him go the next morning.You know, that happens a lot with
(26:47):
serial killers up they get lazy,they don't think they're gonna get caught.
Sometimes I think it might be somethingabout that person. Oh okay, yeah,
So sometimes I think because you know, conversations are going to be had,
or at least you know, youhave no idea what took place between
him and that guy. Yeah,you know what I mean besides obviously the
(27:10):
you know, torture and rape,um, but like you don't know what
conversations were had. You don't know, he could have felt, um,
like maybe he related to that guyum or something, so he was like,
you know, he'd feel like thattiny tiny little bit of like,
um, empathy, I guess,yeah, that's what can cause. And
then they're like, okay, youcan go. And that's usually what folks
(27:33):
you will oh yes, exactly welland like like you're saying, empathy coming
into play. I also and it'snot that I necessarily think they want to
get caught, Like I don't knowthat I buy into that, Like there
have been very few. I thinkthere's a few that like wanted legitimately to
be caught. But I think alot of it is just you fall into
a habit when you've been doing somethingfor years. Yeah, you know what
(27:56):
I mean, You fall into habit, You get lazy, you cuts.
Maybe that day he just didn't feellike it. But you know, at
the same time, I wonder,like everyone has limits, everyone has breaking
points, Like did he hit onewith this guy? You know it was
some of the empathy. Was hetired of killing? I don't know.
(28:17):
I don't know, you'll never know, like and a lot of times,
even if you interview these people,they'll never tell you, give you the
run around, or they don't evenknow true, Yeah, they don't understand.
They don't know why him don't necessarilyunderstand why they do it in the
first place. So in May ofthe same year, so nineteen seventy eight,
Gasey and this is right after he'sdone this to this guy. M
(28:38):
Gacy gains clearance from the CIA tomeet First Lady Rosalind Carter, President Jimmy
Carter's wife during the Polish Day Paradein Chicago, and there are pictures of
him with her. Why why Ihave clearance to he's a construction worker and
a clown. Well he was,but he was in a lot of civics
(29:00):
organizations. He was on the boardof that lighting district. I think he
was just rubbing elbows with some veryimportant people, like two different worlds or
how she felt about that later.Oh Jesus, can you imagine. No,
I cannot to have come face toface with the with the not just
which I mean, she's not histype. She would have been fine.
But it's not that. It's thelooking them in the eye. It's the
(29:23):
you know it, and it's theit's the not knowing until later, Yeah,
and like having a good fresh impressionof that person and a good like
thinking and standing in your brain,and then later on finding out that they
literally tortured and killed raped guys.Yes, yeah, which is why I
always say, you never know somebody, not even your own family and or
(29:48):
spouses. I know, like youjust don't don't like that. Well,
you can't read other people's minds.No, I mean you can't, and
you can't know every single thing that'sgoing on, has gone on and will
go on. It's the it's thehuman condition. Kind of it's good and
fun, but so Gaycy. Youknow, he's rubbin elbows. He's in
(30:11):
with these powerful people, but histime is running out. As his most
recent victim, fifteen year old RobertPriest, goes missing in December nineteen seventy
eight after he goes to try toseek work with Gacy's company. Robert's mother
ends up notifying the police about herson's disappearance, and unsurprisingly, the police,
they got some questions for mister Gaycybased on, yeah, this kid
(30:34):
was supposedly come to see you.Did that happen? What the fuck happened?
Also, it's not like you haven'talready been arrested from actual being not
an okay guy, actions against boysand men boys mostly it's the worst part
of it. It's like as notall of its victims, but a lot
of his victims around date, somewere young or so. This questioning occurs
(30:59):
on December twelve, and the policewould then end up having Gaycy under constant
surveillance by December fourteenth. That wasquick. So Gaycey ends up trying to
kind of whine and dine the policeteam that's surveilling him. He even buys
them meals. He chats them upand he lets them know, like if
he's leaving the house, he stops, He's like, hey, I'm going
(31:19):
here, guys. So he's veryamicable, very jovial with them. Okay,
but he is apprehended for drug relatedcharges only like seven days later,
so December twenty first, and thepolice are then able to obtain a search
warrant. Gotta be real careful whenyou're like already like in trouble, because
(31:42):
they can pop you for goddamn anything. Well, yeah, I'm care And
if they want to bring you andyou're doing drunk, like what the fuck
you doing? Look, you havepolice surveillance on you, and you know,
because you're talking to them. Ithink he's gotten overly confident. He
does kind he's like yeah, likeRobin elbows like they're kind of like,
why no, Yeah, guess what. I think he's gonna get caught.
(32:06):
It doesn't matter who, you know, most people aren't comfortable with, you
know, murder true or homosexuality backin the seventies. Oh yeah, so
like you got to target on yourback if they know anything about this.
Yeah. So the next day theyare searching the gay cy property and they
discover human remains in the homes crawlspace, and just six days later,
(32:30):
while police have continued just excavating theproperty, Gaycy ends up confessing to thirty
three murders. He goes on toeven provide police with the detailed drawing of
a map showing the locations of thevictims in the crawl space and in the
garage, and he even leads policeto the bodies of several victims who he
had just dumped in the de PlaneRiver. So he's got like three dumping
(32:52):
grounds. She's getting like, it'slike, ah, I'll bury him in
the crawl space, but if I'mlazy, I'll just know him in the
l them in the river. LikeI don't I don't like this one.
I don't like the way this onelooks. So I can never imagine being
the police officers who have to gointo that crawl space to go It's like,
I have thirty three people into mycrawl space. Here you go and
(33:13):
you're like, yeah, great,which I guess, like they're spread around,
like I don't know how many werein the crawl space. It was.
It was a lot, well alot specifically in the crawl space,
but also if it's kind of crawlspace, like like my parents have at
their house. It spans the entirebottom of the house. Like the whole
week out of the house is acrawl space. It's a lot of space
(33:35):
space, bodies anything, but yeah, yeah, So police now have the
bodies to back up the confession andto help convict Gaycy of multiple counts of
murder. His trial begins February nineteeneighty, so just a little over one
year since he's arrested, and he, of course pleads not guilty by reason
(33:57):
of insanity. I really hate thatfence a lot. Now. I get
it because I could definitely say ifsomebody like murdered my husband right in front
of me, I would probably attemptto murder them. Yeah, just based
on my own anger and feelings.So I understand the basis for temporary insanity
(34:17):
or insanity or whatever, But mostpeople who claim that aren't insane. Yeah,
they're just trying to get off.They're trying to get away with doing
what they did. That is insane. Sure, but they didn't do it
because you know, like I mean, the son of Sam, like that
classifies insane. The dog told himto do it, you know what,
(34:39):
I would, But the more I'velearned about him, the more I think
that's bullshit. Oh really Yeah,Now I don't want to like point blanks
make that full statement, but likecover it later on in another episode.
I'm sure. I think he wasa piece of work and he knew what
he was doing. I mean it'spossible. I mean, and that's the
problem with the insanity. Please,that it's really easy to say God told
(35:00):
me to do it. Yeah,yeah, how can you? Insane doesn't
mean mentally ill? No, like, and I think that that gets forgotten
and lost in translation. It's like, yes, he was mentally ill,
he was not insane. No,because there are people who are mentally ill
who kill people who do not getaway with the insanity, please, because
(35:21):
they weren't insane and they knew exactlyThe insanity thing just means that they didn't
know what they were doing, waswhat they're or like the different they don't
know the difference between this is rightand this is wrong, or you know
whatever. They didn't have control overthis situation. Yeah, just because you're
mentally ill, like I'm I'm mentallyyeah, Like I'm mentally ill, and
(35:43):
I'm not going to get away withkilling somebody because I have depression. I
hope not. I hope that doesn'tbecome a defense. So I'm depressed.
Well, welcome to a ran.I'm going to kill this person that's been
tailgating me for the past ten miles. Yeah, road rage, right,
rage, it's a thing, itis. And just to put it out
there, I don't plan to killanyone that's tailgating me. Oh so good,
(36:07):
Yeah good, I do. No, I'm just kidding. So,
so Gasie pleads not guilty about reasonof insanity, and he even goes on
to recant his confession, and heclaims that this is quote unquote his alter
ego that made a false confession.So he's claiming he's got like this other
split side of himself that which falselyconfess, which is not even like the
(36:30):
actual clinical diagnosis either. It's notan even um dissociative identity disorder, which
is multiple personalities doesn't mean when youthink it means, though it doesn't.
And it has been very much overrepresentedin terms of like immediate, how common
it is and if it even exists, And we are still very split in
(36:52):
our community of whether we think it'sa real diagnosis or not. You're split
over split personalities. Now we arewe're split. We're split, We're split
over split personalities, split split.Well you don't know, I mean you
all you have to go on iswhat this person is telling you or signs,
which I'm sorry, but like basedon movies and stuff that, like
(37:14):
you know, media and stuff,I could probably fake split personality disorder.
Yeah, you know what I mean. Like in a lot of times,
it's just trauma. That's the resultof intense trauma, and that's a lot
of it is just like it's it'sdisassociating, yes, from your trauma,
which is what gives it, likethe dissociative you know, identity disorders.
(37:35):
But like you know, this mecan't handle this right now, so I'm
going to check it out yep.And the other me yep. The same
person, but different sides of yourpersonality. Yes, I guess. Yeah,
And you know, yeah, andI'll have to I may have to
visit that at some point if itbecomes applicable. But yeah, it's an
interesting one. It is. Sothe evidence against Gaycy was solid at this
(37:59):
point point. So this, youknow, no shit, he has people
in his basement. Yeah, yeah, they've got like multiple bodies multiple murder
victims, and the jury only deliberatesfor about two hours before convicting him.
Oh that's short. A few hours, and in March of the same year
he is sentenced. So he receivestwenty one life sentences and twelve death sentences,
(38:23):
which I've never might notice equals thirtythree. I've never understood it.
Well, I've seen that happen alot to where you get one count per
per per victim. Yeah. WhatI don't understand is like why, like
you receive twenty one life doesn't seemexcessive. It does, and a life
(38:44):
sentence should be a life sentence basedon how long you live, not the
average you. I don't know howmuch of it is either how the law
is written and these are the sentenceswe give based on the crimes you've committed,
or trying to prove a point oflike it's justice, probably both a
(39:05):
little mix of both. Making surehe can't fucking get paroled. Well,
that's my problem with life sentences isthat people get life sentences and then they
get a you know, off inten years for good behavior. You're off
on good behavior any years, onehundred percent structured environment where you couldn't just
do whatever the fuck you wanting.And you've had somebody watching you twenty four
(39:27):
seven, and we know it's notremediative. It doesn't remedy things. It
makes a lot of shit worse.Yeah, people just can't fuck up as
easily. But hey, they werepretending like they were good people, so
let's let them out back into thepopulation. Hey, they were well behaved
in a place that punishes you severelywhen you're not. And then you and
then you give them freedom game,and no shit, they fall back into
(39:50):
the same exact patterns as before.You're not helping them. And some people
can't be helped. It's like theycan't get a job now when they can't
get a job now too. Yeah, and what are you supposed to do
when you're you know, been incarceratedor whatever. And you were incarcerated in
the first place because you are froma low income area and trying to fucking
do something to make money to live. Yeah, and then they put you
(40:14):
in prison and then you get out, and then you're barred from getting a
job. Yep. And don't getme wrong, I get it. I've
worked in places that have had thepolicy of not hiring convicts or whatever,
and I get it, like Idon't. I wouldn't want to work side
by side to somebody who's been convictedof murder. Sure, but I'm perfectly
happy working side by side to somebodywho's been in the pot yeah something.
(40:37):
It's like, oh, dic,I don't care. I don't care.
I know if it's a non violentcrime like well, and you're not giving
them the opportunity. You put themin jail for years to rehabilitate, and
then you let them out and youdon't want them to work anywhere. They
can't reintegrate into society in the waythat they need to, so they start
(41:00):
in crimes again to make money orthey or they just suffer, you know.
They either go back to a lifeof crime to make money or make
money and they struggle even more.Some people reoffend just to go back to
prison where they feel comfortable. Yeah. Yeah, that's terrible and it's a
(41:21):
roof over their head food roof.Yep, you know what I mean.
Ridiculous Anyway, so he he getsthe thirty three sentences, one for each
victim. Gaysy goes on to filenumerous appeals to try and avoid execution,
and while sitting on death row.He began his painting career. Have you
heard about this? Is it clowns? Yeah? I feel like mainly clowns.
(41:47):
So he focuses on clown pictures forthe most part, and he ends
up selling many of these paintings whilehe's in prison. And Laura, I'm
going to share my screen again.And this is but this is one of
the more infamous or famous non clownpaintings. Okay, let it looks like
a three year old did it.Actually no, now this was added like
(42:13):
this isn't a thing, but heput that. And then this is his
house that he didn't want painting of. That's pretty good shading, I mean,
pretty good lines. I think there'sthe clown back there. I just
know I don't love that. Hissignature is his weird clown thing. Well,
and this is like the company didthis one because I wish it wouldn't
that. I know. I'm notgonna say, look, I'm a freak.
(42:37):
I would probably buy a painting thatwas painted by John Wayne Gacy just
to well, like have I feellike I feel like a bad person if
you go to murder action dot Com. I'm not going to do that now.
Guess how Guess how much this wassold for. Well, I don't
(42:58):
know if it's sold, the auctionclosed, but guess how much they were
trying to sell it for and valueit at in twenty seventeen. How much?
Thousands of dollars? Thousands, Yes, but that's a broad range.
Um, I'm gonna go under tenthousands. Oh, okay, hundred and
seventy five thousand dollars one seventy fivemore than a house. It's a house,
(43:22):
Okay, I told a house paintingfor a house. Here's my I
know, and not even a reallygood one I know. So here's my
thing is. So I wouldn't wantto buy a John Wayne Gaycy painting from
John Wayne Gazy because I wouldn't wantto contribute money to this dude. I
know, I would like to,like I would. I'm the kind of
(43:45):
person who would buy a painting thatwas painted by John Wayne Gazy if it
was like being sold for charity forsystems of John Wayne Gacy or there.
Yes, that's a great idea,you know what I mean? Can we
do that? I'm sick. I'ma sick fuck, so, like it's
interesting to me, but I wouldn'twant like I wouldn't. I wouldn't buy
(44:06):
something like that if I if itwas profitable for that person, you know
what I mean, because they're aterrible Like I get it, they made
it. Yeah, but like he'sdead, Yeah, so where's that money
go? Well, he goes tothese people, the people around yeah,
right right, So if it wasbeing sold for some kind of benefit victim
(44:29):
benefit, not remedy, but likeyeah, benefit to people who were affected
by this person, or future youknow, future study of this kind of
thing, like something, if itwas for like some psychological study or something,
or like trying to fund some kindof you know study, but like
only after the person. Yeah yeah, not not to them directly, not
(44:52):
benefiting them directly. No, notbenefiting them directly. And it's it's just
interesting to me. First of all, they give pain the first place,
Um, but this is dude's like, I mean, I guess they have
to have things to do. Yeah, and they're on death row. I
think sometimes on death row get alittle bit of special treatment. Well because
(45:14):
they're gonna die. Yeah, Butit's also really annoying because again, death
row, it's frustrating because it canbe years and years and years and years
before somebody actually faces their death sentence, which they're supposed to receive. Um.
But it's also good sometimes that thatdoes take so long, because a
lot of times we have incorrectly garceratedsomebody and have sentenced them to death and
(45:39):
they don't deserve it. Yeah,so that's a very tricky system. Yeah,
I need to do better at gettingshit right. But um, but
yeah, I would buy a Gacy. I would buy a Cacy original if
I was a rich person and itwas going to some kind of fucking I
don't know, but I can't figureI can't. I can't decide. Part
(46:00):
of me really wants to when theother part is like do I want to
cross that line? I'll cross it. I'm under sorry, I'll collect weird
and you can come look at it. I would come visit your serial killer
memorabilia. But yeah, Yeah,it's just it's such a it's like it's
almost like writing the line of um, like commemorating serial killers. Yes,
(46:28):
you know what I mean. It'sit's riding the line of like, oh,
I'd have to figure out what mypurpose and intention was to owning it
first, Yeah, because I don'twant to buy it and then hate myself
for it or feel bad about itor feel dirty or guilty. I feel
like I would love to buy thingslike like if I was rich, I
would buy things like that and maybeit make like a attraction or museum or
(46:50):
something like that that I can thendonate money for to mental health organizations and
yeah, first victims families. OhI wonder if you could, you could
do it for the Wrongful Conviction,Yeah, the Freedom Project, Yeah,
you know, stuff like that.Like I feel like I would because I
know there are a lot of peoplewho are interested in fucked up shit like
(47:13):
I am. You know, Imean, there's nothing wrong. Yeah,
you know what I mean, there'snothing as long as you're not hurting anyone
else. But for me, itwould have to be like beneficial in some
good way to make that, like, um, like for a trade off.
Yeah, like, yes, Iam buying a painting that was done.
Yeah, kind of the balancing thescales, right, Yeah, it's
(47:36):
like fine, you know, yes, a gaycy painting is making money,
but let's make it make money forsomething good yep, you know, or
or rehabilitation places for people who mightbe you know, just yeah. Yeah,
So regardless of his painting skills skials. Regardless of his painting skills,
Gaycy would be put to death bylethal injection at the age of fifty two
(48:00):
years old. And this is onMay tenth, nineteen ninety four, So
he was in there for how long? So fourteen years give or take.
And his supposed last words were,kiss my ass. That doesn't look look
at that dude's picture. Kiss myass seems like it would be his last
words. It seems like something he'dhave tattooed on himself somewhere. Like he
(48:23):
just seems like a cratchy old curmudgeon. Yeah, yeah, he's he's just
most of his mug shots and prisonshots he's just yeah, got an browny
sneer. No wonder he painted hissmile. He's patches now, He's definitely
patches while he's in prison. Nowhe's patches in hell. Um Like that's
(48:49):
what you get when you go tohell. Dis patches the clown Great great,
I'm gonna be surrounded by clowns whenI'm in Hell for talking about these
kinds of Yeah. So, andthat's it for Gacy. Thank you so
much for joining us. If youwant to leave us a review, or
if you have any feedback. Youcan send us a message on social media,
(49:13):
or go to our website, whichis simply Terrible People doing terrible things
dot WordPress dot com. And remember, terrible people are everywhere, sore clowns,
our clouds, and you might justbe a clown back.
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