Navigating the Echo Chambers

Episode Transcript
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Dylan (00:00):
Hello and welcome to another episode of Terribly
Unoblivious.
What started off as aninnocuous celebration of Brad's
one year anniversary withtherapy quickly turned into a
raw, revealing and unscriptedconversation between us about
each other's experiences with it.
We both discussed struggles inour lives, the benefits we
gained from therapy and whymaybe some people don't enjoy

(00:21):
the experience.
We also touch on why it'simportant to hold yourself to a
standard but be able to giveyourself permission to make
mistakes.
All this and more as wenavigate how to be authentic
with not only ourselves butothers.
We hope you enjoy this episodeof Terribly Unoblivious.

Brad (00:38):
Yep.

Dylan (00:39):
I said it before and I'll say it again Life moves pretty
fast.

Brad (00:44):
You don't stop and look around once in a while, you
could miss it.
Happy one anniversary, happyanniversary.

Dylan (01:00):
You want to tell the listeners about our anniversary.
Happy one anniversary, not myanniversary, no it was our
anniversary on Valentine's Day.
No but the other anniversary.

Brad (01:07):
Oh yeah, you don't want to talk about the chocolate cake
thing.
What Tell them about thechocolate cake?
You remember what chocolatecake you know on our anniversary
?
Who Us?
Yeah.

Dylan (01:19):
What anniversary do we have?
It's?

Brad (01:20):
on Valentine's Day?
I don't remember.
Did we have?
Do I not mean anything to you?

Dylan (01:25):
Did we actually have something on Valentine's?
I don't know if you're fuckingwith me or not.

Brad (01:28):
Did you get Britt anything about Valentine's Day?
She was sick.
Oh, you got her sick.

Dylan (01:35):
Jokes on you.
Yeah, I didn't get Shaneanything how was that she didn't
get me anything.

Brad (01:45):
Okay, fair, first fair, I think I don't know.
Oh yeah, she got me a.

Dylan (01:50):
I don't try to play into the whole.
Oh, it's a Hallmark holidaything.
I don't believe in that.
Like it's not that.

Brad (01:57):
I don't either.
If I get her gifts, I tend todo it sporadically, just because
I saw something I liked ohsparkly, oh, we'll get that
we're in a very fortunateposition.

Dylan (02:13):
Double income, no kids, I mean we kind of oh, I thought
you meant we like.

Brad (02:18):
No, not the collective us, we right now.
I was waiting to hear what kindof good position I was in.
We're super fortunate.

Dylan (02:25):
We kind of just have fun whenever we want to have fun, so
we don't really need to make abig out of it, oh cool.

Brad (02:31):
So like you guys go out and like go to dinners and stuff
like that, that's fun, fuck you.

Dylan (02:35):
Actually, I had a chat with my therapist today about
that.

Brad (02:39):
Oh, going to dinner with her.
I think that's against therules.
It depends on your therapist.
I guess that's true, you knowHuh.
Or you can get your therapistat Well, I mean, I'm just
thinking like or is shelistening to the podcast.
Well, like good will hunting,you know.
They went out on a benchoutside, I don't know.

Dylan (02:57):
You looked at a painting and you knew everything about me
.

Brad (02:59):
And you ripped my fucking world apart.
Hey, settle down.
I love that movie.
Yeah, too bad.
Somebody didn't talk to himabout it, though.
Who the therapist?

Dylan (03:10):
No, but he, the Robin Williams.
Oh the actor, the guy thatkilled himself.

Brad (03:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's sad Whoops.
Was that foreshadowing For youor me For him?
Oh?

Dylan (03:23):
That's rough.
Yeah, way to confuse the shitout of our listeners.
We're pretty good at this,though, by the way.
Now I can't imagine peoplestill listening, but it's your
one year anniversary.
One year anniversary of therapy.
Yeah, currently, currently,your current cycle.

Brad (03:41):
I'm how you doing big, big boy, big dog.
I'm going to bring this up alittle bit in this episode just
because it's I just started it,so it's on my mind, but what?

Dylan (03:56):
Let's just start the book Grit, which we will be doing a.

Brad (04:00):
We'll do a multi-part series on.
I just kind of started it, butit's exciting.

Dylan (04:05):
How do you know we're going to want to do a series on
that book, by the way, if youhaven't read it?

Brad (04:09):
Because I've already started it and it's just.
It's another one of those bookswhere it's like, oh fuck, we've
hit a bunch of this stuffalready.

Dylan (04:17):
Like touched.
That that's fine.
It's fun when we hitreoccurring themes in the
outside world.

Brad (04:22):
It's a little validating.

Dylan (04:23):
Yeah, I had a little validation.
This week.
I had a buddy that does notcompliment easily I shouldn't
say at all One of my goodfriends, but he by no means is
somebody that will hand yousomething without you actually
deserving it.
And he kind of surprised mewithout me even fishing for a

(04:44):
compliment.
He said your ears look realnice.

Brad (04:47):
He said my nose was getting better oh.
Yeah.

Dylan (04:49):
Yeah, I was like damn that son in SPF 45.
But he said he enjoyedlistening, which I don't know if
he was being nice or not, justto placate me or.
But it felt good, felt good.
And then he kind of interviewedme a little bit.
I was like, so what's your planwith the podcast?

(05:11):
And I said, more than anything,it's a therapy session for me.
Good, and I was like I don'treally have plans other than the
fact that I hope that peoplethat do listen get something out
of it.
It's definitely not a.

Brad (05:25):
Yeah, our two hour pre-amble to this episode says
otherwise.
As you're going through socialsand websites and oh, look at
this, oh, calendars, we canschedule, oh yeah, and then
Dylan gets on here and is like Idon't really have any plans.

Dylan (05:43):
No.

Brad (05:44):
Are you like the toys?

Dylan (05:46):
Yeah, I'm a toys guy 100% , it's.
Yeah, it is.
I mean, for anyone listening,the last episode Brad and I
recorded together, it would havebeen Musogi and it's already
been released.
I think this is the weekfollowing the Musogi episode,

(06:07):
but I kind of talked about howthis podcast was a little bit my
Musogi because it takes me outof my comfort zone in the sense
that I know a lot of people I dohave.
I have a weird introverted, Ihave an introverted, extroverted
personality.
When I want to be extroverted,I want to be extroverted.
When I want to be introverted,I go in hard and I'll do wild

(06:27):
and crazy things.
A little bit longer ago thancurrent, I should say that's
more past me.
I'll have conversations withpeople, I'll get deep
conversation, but I'm alwaysprotecting myself at some sense.
I don't do well kind of showingeverything.

Brad (06:48):
It sounds more not like you're introverted, extroverted,
but that you're controlled.
Yeah, that you decide whichside, but there is an
introverted side to me which islike I don't need people for the
next few weeks.

Dylan (07:01):
But I'm saying you control which side comes out
when 100% yeah, and I do, andit's a little bit.
It kind of goes against whatwe've talked about to some
extent.
Oh, I know which is braving thewilderness, and I have
conflicting thoughts at alltimes about this.
Am I not braving the wildernessbecause I'm afraid of other

(07:23):
people, or am I just?
I don't have the time to try toresolve conflict right now, so
I just move on.

Brad (07:32):
May not always be about conflict.
I think the authenticity playsa lot into it, and I guess it
does.
You're choosy with who you'reauthentic with.

Dylan (07:41):
Pretty much so, and so this to absolutely spot on.
So this to me is and when wetalk about all, it's one thing
to show up here, hit the recordbutton, put it out there.
I mean, honestly, it's easy.
I shouldn't say it's easy, itis hard.
We just sat here for a whileand we were like, when are we

(08:01):
going to start?
When are we going to start?
Like we had a little bit ofparalysis, but I guess it's.
How do you do something?
That is a little bit of astruggle at the same time, but
then also not.
I could easily hide.
I mean, I could kind of like dothis and we could easily not

(08:22):
push it.
I haven't pushed it, stillguilty of that.
But how do you put yourself outthere a little bit to maybe
grow, be a little bit moreauthentic?
So to me, the rest of all that,what we were doing, was again,
we're pushing it in a way, but Ithink it's more of like for me,

(08:42):
can you be comfortable when itgets uncomfortable, when people
actually start looking?

Brad (08:47):
Can you yeah, yeah, I think you can.

Dylan (08:50):
I think it's.
I mean that's more of a.
I'm not really in a stresssituation right now because the
majority of followers I havefollowers, friends that are
followers and goodness knows whoelse but I think the majority
of our followers are probablyfrom your subset of your circle

(09:10):
of influence.

Brad (09:12):
Yeah, but the nice thing about that is that my people
don't know me.
That's the best part, right?

Dylan (09:16):
Yeah, so you have some authenticity crisis as well.

Brad (09:23):
No, we've talked about that before.
Sometimes you just play thegame of people think what they
think, and that's right yeah.
I am better to surprisesometimes.

Dylan (09:35):
I've had some events in people in my life that have led
me to I don't know how todescribe it.
It's not fixed, but I've alwayswanted to cater and so I just
have a habit with everyone.
I kind of cater to what I senseoff of you.
Yeah, like you need this, soI'll give you this in a moment.

(09:57):
It's a dangerous game.

Brad (09:58):
I am reciprocal in the sense that the type of energy
and vibes and info.

Dylan (10:10):
That's an ADHD trait, like straight up If you know
someone in the room is nothaving a good time, you absorb
all of it.

Brad (10:18):
But likewise, if there's somebody that is being open and
authentic and down to have agood conversation, yeah, I'm the
same way, all in.

Dylan (10:27):
I don't know you, yep, just met you Exactly.

Brad (10:30):
Yeah.

Dylan (10:30):
I'm the same.
It's actually to your point.
It's almost easier to beauthentic with a stranger than
it is with people closest to you.

Brad (10:37):
That gets us back to therapy, and that's Well.
You brought it up first.
You said you talked aboutsomething yesterday or today, or
whatever.

Dylan (10:48):
Yeah, so went for dinner last week, wednesday night,
ended up having that was a longrabbit hole, by the way, I know
it was a long rabbit hole.
It was awesome, though it'sstill awesome.
This is fun.
Went for dinner and I justremember sitting at the bar and
I've been in this.
I need to grow professionallystage for a while and I've been

(11:12):
fortunate that I've been able totake on some more and more
responsibilities in myprofessional life and trying to
grow certain divisions andindividuals into the roles and
positions they want to get to,and it's taken a lot of time and
I always feel like there'ssomething else to do.
So soon, as you know, I'm donewith one thing, I move on to the

(11:34):
next and I don't necessarilyit's not easy for me to
recognize the accomplishment,and I think that's one I was
kind of raised that way as wellwhich is Be humble and just move
on.
But I think my parents may bealmost made it too dangerous at
times, because I get lost andI'm just like, okay, I come home
and I need to work for anotherthree hours because I want to be

(11:56):
even more ready for tomorrowmorning, and then that's gonna
make us move the needle thatmuch more and there's something
to the grind.
But I get in a habit, or I getin these flows, if you will, or
these cycles of Weekends.
You can have a little bit offun.
But you got to be a little bitreserved because you need to be
ready to go Monday morning andyeah, it's called adulting, yeah
.
But then, like Wednesday, wentout for dinner and it's like, oh

(12:18):
, this is why you work reallyhard, so you can do stuff like
this.
You can have a glass of wine atthe at the bar, eat a really
good burger from an awesomerestaurant and then, like, you
can kind of enjoy yourself andyou don't always have to be
thinking about the next task Iget.
I get lost in these cycles.
It's hard, what no?

Brad (12:35):
I lost that piece from time to time, I think.
All right.
So for anybody that Does socialmedia or tiktok or anything,
there's a trend going aroundwhere two people are walking and
the camera's following them andthey'll say something like

(12:58):
we're podcasters, of course, wespend $2,000 on our mics and
then we're podcasters, yeah, soit's anything.
It's, it's a generalization ofany type of yeah, absolutely
type of people or whatever.
And so now there is this couplethat that's like we're a

(13:21):
blue-collar middle-class family,of course, we spend half of our
income on child care.
And then the guy goes and he'slike I'm Joel, of course, I have
crippling depression and Ican't wait for the asteroid to
hit.
And then the camera goes down.
It's like no, no, no, no, no.
Like this supposed to be funny,yeah we can't touch.
So it's now.
It's like this whole series ofthis and everybody's they're

(13:42):
like this is, this is what we'rehere for and there's like two
normal-looking Midwestern, yeah,a couple, whatever, and so,
yeah, I feel I felt like todayyou get into that.
The schedule is so, so much sothat you don't get that High

(14:04):
anymore, like you don't get that.
This is, this is the reasonthat we do it.
Mm-hmm like and it's not that itnever happens, it's just you
might go for a period whereyou're like, okay, yeah, no, we
don't do anything fun and youget so stressed throughout the
day that by the time you're homewith your family, your, your
family, gets the shit part ofeverybody.

(14:25):
Yeah, like, the kids arefucking tapped out, the spouses
are stressed out from work andand guess what, the kids are
picking up on mom and dad too.
So, or but it's, it's, it's thewhole thing and and you're like
I Don't know.
I was just driving over here.
I was like what the fuck are wedoing?

Dylan (14:44):
Like you get in a hamster wheel.

Brad (14:48):
And it will break as cycles.
Do you know?
But that's, if you don'trecognize you're in that cycle
and that either that cycle orend, or that you are going to do
something proactive to to bustout of that.

Dylan (15:06):
That's it I mean it's dangerous, it's easy to get into
.

Brad (15:10):
It's like we talked about the depression thing, you know,
it's like if you go into adepression and then your your
goal is to like isolate and nottalk and go away and it's like
no, no, no, that's, that's thebad.
You don't want to be there.
Yeah, you gotta.
You gotta do something to getout.

Dylan (15:26):
You've got a you've got a no, you've almost got to force
yourself to do exactly theopposite of what you want to do.

Brad (15:33):
Yeah, so I know there's yeah you.

Dylan (15:38):
I don't know it was fun.
It was fun though it was it, itwas a nice, it was a, it was a
happy accident, like it wasn'treally kind of supposed to
happen.
The reason we went out wasthere was an event I was
required to go to at fiveo'clock Okay and had a had a
cocktail was like you know whatI want to?
I want a burger from frommonarch.
I went over to monarch.

(15:59):
Monarch, by the way, hasprobably wanted the best, if not
the best, burger in the QuadCities.
I've never heard of that.
Yeah Well, I'll take you sometime.

Brad (16:07):
What do they cook?

Dylan (16:08):
butterflies um, no cicadas.
Oh, have more protein.
So I think it was a happyaccident and it's just.
It was nice, it was neededbecause I'm I'm coming on the
backside of a long kind of grind.
Yeah, I'm a couple differentevents, and it's funny, though,

(16:28):
because the intro to thispodcast is Ferris Bieler's day
off and it's you know, yeah,stop and take a look around.
Every once in a while you canmiss it.
You know life moves pretty fast.
It's, and it is that to me, andthat's what you know.
Ferris Bieler's day off is oneof my favorite movies, going
back to when I was Tiny, I mean,I remember having the VHS, but

(16:50):
the Older I get, it still stickswith me in so many levels of
you know, you can enjoy yourself, you need, there's a
responsibility, you can do otherthings, but it was not only
that.

Brad (17:02):
it's Taking some risks, mm-hmm.
Yeah and being being authentic.
I remember that that sceneafter cam goes Camotonic and in
the bottom of the pool and thenthere is Bieler here, my hero.

Dylan (17:18):
And then he has a real, authentic moment there but, I
think the fun part about thatmovie is you think it's all
about Ferris and Then at the endit's all about camera.
Oh, but it's old.

Brad (17:31):
Did you know you were supposed to have a much bigger
role in there?
Yeah, I didn't know that.

Dylan (17:36):
That's funny.
Jennifer Gray is a babe, yeah.

Brad (17:39):
Yeah, I remember dancing with stars a couple years ago.
Well, it's probably more than acouple years ago, wasn't?

Dylan (17:43):
it, but no, at the end, when he's like you know, if I
get caught, I know bad thingsare gonna happen.
I've had a lot of these.
This one was for Cameron.
I know he's he's going off thedeep end and I need to get him
to learn that it's okay to getyour head up and out and look
around.
Yeah, and it's that's.
It's a pretty cool message.

(18:04):
I'm gonna risk a lot of my ownself To make sure that my buddy
well, it was a real awakeningfor camp.

Brad (18:11):
It was.
He's like sorry about the car,he's like yeah, me.

Dylan (18:14):
And the old man.

Brad (18:14):
We're gonna sit down, we're having a chat, and that's
so, but there's a yeah.
So the one year ConsistencyI've been talking, I've been
thinking about Quite a bit and Iremember what was the quote
that you told me about theexercise.
Was it from like?
Was it from Peter Atia orsomebody else?
Which one?

(18:37):
The only thing, was it like the?
The only thing more effectivethan working out every day is
not working out.

Dylan (18:42):
It's Peter, yeah, yeah, how'd the cocoa?
And it's he.
He says.
Research shows that the onlything more detrimental what is
it?
Yeah, it's the no.
No, it's something like moremore powerful or something.
Sorry, yes, the only thing morepowerful than working out Every
day is not working out, becausethe compounding effects are so

(19:04):
much more substantial, like whenyou work out.
And when you first start workingout, you make mate.
Your body is amazing.
You make major gains.
Your bodies it, it's, it'smeant to To do hard things and
again, that's a relative term,but you know you always hear
these stories oh, my god, I lost50 pounds in the first six, you
know, months of working out.

(19:25):
I did this and I did this.
It's because your body wants tohit a certain level of
homeostasis, it wants to dosomething.
And then there are geneticLimitations to certain, to
everyone, in some some regard.
Yeah, but the body's amazing,it wants to do hard things.
But once you get to that point,when you, when you it's easy at
first then it getsexponentially harder to make

(19:47):
exponentially less Progress.
Right?
So for 90% effort, you are onlygonna get half a percent growth
, whereas when you start workingout, you know 50% effort, it's
gonna get you 90, or you know80% there, you know of the way.
So what his whole thing is,though, is it's amazing how it
adapted the body is when itstarts working out.

(20:08):
But if you stop, the day afterday effects of not utilizing it
are so vastly more powerful thanthe utilization of it in the
wrong way, in the wrong way, inthe opposite way, and you, it's
it's that much harder toovercome them.

Brad (20:24):
It's you have to work so much harder to overcome those
deficits, kind of like thehundred hours, isn't it the
hundred thousand hours, it's athousand hours right, it's
Whoever.
so there's, there's the tenthousand hours, there's the
there's a thousand hour rule, Ithink, which is it's something

(20:45):
like 15 to 20 minutes a day,somewhere in that range that if
you focus on one skill For thatamount of time in a year, you
would be better than like 90 to95 percent of the people in the
world, which sounds astounding.
At first you're like it'sreally really gonna be better

(21:06):
than that.
But then you think about howmany people are in the world and
then how many people don't haveaccess to fucking, probably
whatever it is You're doing,yeah, which just wipes out a
giant chunk.
And then, so if my kid were topractice basketball, you know,
for a thousand hours, like it'sCorbin, really better than than
90 percent of the world, like,yeah, probably there's not a lot

(21:30):
of you know 80, 90 year oldsplaying basketball.
There's everybody below him'snot playing basketball.
Everybody above 30 is notplaying basketball.
So I don't know, but there's athe idea of that consistency.
So so the therapy thing for me,but this has been the first
time I've consistently gone forEver.

(21:53):
I mean, I went in college, butthat was a relatively short span
, so I think I started goingbefore I graduated, so it was
only a couple months, and thenI've done a few other stints.

Dylan (22:02):
How do you think the year-long consistency is helped
compared to the other times it?

Brad (22:07):
it Depending on how often you go.
I mean, you got a, you got akind of cut through the weeds
for a while before you starthitting on some nerves and then,
yeah, I'm only going about oncea month right now, and now I'm
regretting that currently, butyou know you go in yeah, if you

(22:32):
know, if you don't, if you don'tget in, it's it's crazy.

Dylan (22:36):
How so slam.
Yeah, it wanted to get inyou're.
You're talking a year, ifyou're lucky, I mean in some
cases and Then once you're in,you're in and you have, they
have it's.
It's kind of one of thosethings where if you're not, and
if you're not an existing clientor Patient, I should say, but

(22:57):
also if you are and you and youuse it, then it's like, no,
sorry, so you're gonna lose it.

Brad (23:01):
Yeah, and so the the one before this.
I Kind of left thinking likeit's this, is this still good?
Like am I just wasting time?
Like am I wasting my time, am Iwasting her time, you know,
because she's good and Maybe shecould be helping somebody else.

Dylan (23:23):
You know that's but part of it's, part of it is building
trust and it is, and it's a lot.
I mean if you watch shrinking.
Yeah, a lot of it selfactualization.
You need to hear yourself sayit so many times.

Brad (23:36):
No, but the other part is that you can go through.
So that's that's kind of what Iwant to talk about today was
just the, the generals oftherapy, because I've, I've, I
know so many people thatProbably should be in therapy,
people that have gone and arelike it was terrible, my
therapist was terrible, this wasawful.
I don't know why anyone woulddo this thing, or I've had that.

Dylan (23:59):
I've heard that from others as well, and I've always
been curious because I've hadgreat, I have to and I Will.

Brad (24:06):
Well, let's get into that, because I think there's a
couple different Reasons forthat.
Potentially, but like we weretalking about earlier, it's,
it's.
Are you holding anything back?
You know always.
So, um, right, the.

(24:26):
This was it kind of the tailend of a a bit of a home life
thing, and Do you have to fillout a survey every time you go
in there?
How you feeling about this?
You know you feel a surveyevery time.

Dylan (24:41):
Yeah, it's just a quick but you must be on the nothing
what you must be on some kind oflist.
Everybody does.

Brad (24:50):
I think I've never seen anybody else fill it out.

Dylan (24:55):
Maybe she just doesn't, I don't know other people do it.
I think Brad's on look you'reon the, you're on the risk list,
and so it's just a.

Brad (25:03):
I should laugh.
That's not funny.
You know, have you lostinterest in things?
You have trouble sleeping, blah, blah, blah.
How many drinks have you had?
And it's like, althoughrealistically that has gone down
Significantly.
So when I write the number,that's actually the real number.
Oh yeah.

Dylan (25:18):
I never.
You know I didn't get the memoto get fake numbers.
I always gave the doctors realnumbers growing up and they were
always astounded oh what?
Yeah, what I'm?
Can you walk me through thatlike?
I can absolutely walk youthrough that.

Brad (25:29):
Yes, certain weeks would be like I don't want to do the
math On this.

Dylan (25:32):
I never understood lying to your medical provider
Everyone's, everyone's like, oh,I don't want to know.
Yeah, I'm like why yeah,because it obviously makes it
different in your treatment planand they wouldn't ask these
questions if they weren'timportant.
So, yeah, I'm gonna tell thetruth because I don't want.
I Just never understood theline.

Brad (25:51):
Yeah, it's like I was embarrassed and like I'm mid 20s
living my, it makes me think ofthat skin though, when the
doctors like how many drinks wedo you have, he's like I don't
know about 1215.
He's like 1215 beers, that'snot too bad.
He's like oh shit, we'recounting beers too.
And he's like what?
And then he just starts goingthrough like both hands.

(26:19):
Sorry so so I fill that out andthen there's just like it did
you have any homework whichnever have homework really but
they, some therapist, might giveyou something to look at or
work on, or a tactic or whatever, and I don't like that.
I'm like here yeah, keeptalking, and Then there's a

(26:40):
little place for notes and I'llwrite things like Slipped into
the darkness a little bit.

Dylan (26:48):
Whoopsie.

Brad (26:51):
Oops, and Then we'll talk about those things or so is it.

Dylan (26:57):
Take you so, like, when you go in, do you guys have a
little warm-up session?
Do you guys?
Are you guys?
Do you just get in there anduse go right into it?
You're like this I got someshit.

Brad (27:06):
Yeah, it depends on on how I'm feeling or what's been
going on.
So the one before that, whereyou know things, things are
pretty chill and that wasprobably around holiday time and
which is not so chill for a lotof people, yep, and for me we
talked about that.
I'm like I don't.
I don't really.
I don't have anxiety aroundlike holidays really.

Dylan (27:27):
Hmm.

Brad (27:27):
Like there's some shit where it's like, yeah, every
every once in a while there'ssomething small, but it's not
Anything major at all and it'sit's actually almost more calm
for me.
I like, I Like winter.
I like Christmas lights, I likeall their deck.

Dylan (27:43):
I love Christmas decorations.

Brad (27:47):
Fucking, I don't even mind the cold.
And then the kids are off, likeShannon's off, so everybody's
just chill because no one'sunder a ton of stress.

Dylan (27:56):
Mm-hmm.

Brad (27:57):
So I, I don't know, I I enjoy that time.
So that that was the the timewhere I just kind of felt like
at my, should I still be doingthis or not?
Are we just what am I doing?
I'm like coming in here for soI just kind of like go through,
it's not what's been going on.
I'm good, you know, we talkedabout that kind of stuff and
then the last time I went in,we're like let's go straight,

(28:21):
let's go straight to the pit,let's see what's up down here.
Hopefully we can crawl out in 65minute or 55 minutes and and
had a, had a really good sessionand it was one of those.

Dylan (28:36):
So never just aha should have those aha clicky moments.
We're just like it's all comingtogether.

Brad (28:42):
Yeah, all the time, because that's that's.
I think that's what a goodtherapist does, and that's so.
The consistency part is keybecause it's gonna take you a
while, especially depending onwhat you're dealing with.

Dylan (28:57):
Mm-hmm.

Brad (28:57):
It's gonna take you a while to get through all of the
shit.
You know all of the nuances andall, so you can go in there and
start talking about whateverthe problem is.
That's, that's most on yourmind, and they may start working
on that, and it may take youSeveral or dozens of sessions to

(29:18):
get to the next part, which isan underlying factor, and then
they're gonna be like oh, oh,yeah, we didn't.
Yeah, we need to talk aboutthis.
You neglected.
Yeah, tell me that yeah, sothat's what you ever had a
conversation with a friend?
That's what I've alwayswondered about there in a
backdoor yeah, piece of info.

Dylan (29:36):
and you're like, hey, that's pretty fucking important
that would have been crucial inmy decision-making abilities
earlier.
We could have really gonearound this a different way,
yeah.
So I always wonder that abouttherapists is You've got it?
Just, it's like they they seeenough people, they they've been
through enough stuff, they'vegot to just know, like, okay, we

(29:58):
know, we we can kind oftriangulate.
We don't know the exact, butyou're not telling me something,
but we, it has to probably dois something along these lines.
Because of the way you'reacting, the way you're talking
around certain things, yeah,there's a pickup on the patterns
and it's just got to befrustrating, which, again, kudos
to therapists for being able todo that job and also Taking on

(30:20):
other people's stuff.
I mean, I Know from myperspective as a boss at work,
when my guys or girls come to mewith things that are Bothering
them, it's like it becomes myworld too.
It's like I got to help you.
Yeah, I got to make sure you'resolid and I couldn't imagine
just listening to that all daylong.

Brad (30:42):
Yeah, now that you say that I you just talked about
earlier tonight.

Dylan (30:46):
You're like, you feel, you feel hard.

Brad (30:48):
I I sometimes temporarily think about going to school and
just and doing just personalcounseling, like on the private
side of things.
But that part is I think thatyou have too much empathy.

Dylan (31:05):
Yeah, it makes you would suck it all in.

Brad (31:08):
I should it'd be hard because I I do a lot of amateur
counseling with people, whetherit's friends or and, and not in
the best kind, but not in aclinical sense, but more of like
an explanation of Just likewhat have you really thought
about maybe viewing it from thislens or what about?

(31:31):
Yeah, you know so, you see, youdo that kind of stuff.
But yeah, I would have a hardtime with somebody coming in,
and I think about that everytime I leave, and then the next
person walks in and it's justlike you just click, you're like
you're in a whole, there's awhole new world.
Mm-hmm, it's different.
You talk about like the, the,what is it called?

(31:54):
Spiderverse metaverse?

Dylan (31:57):
is it Spidey?
Multiverse, multiverse, that'swhat I want.
I'm sorry, not the metaversethat was.

Brad (32:04):
that was that's what it feels like a little bit because
you're like as a as a counselor,you just have to dive into that
Mm-hmm, that world each timeand and being removed.
I mean eventually, like now, Ican go in.
We've been doing this for ayear.
You know, she knows who I am,she knows what my story is, she
kind of remembers all that stuff.
But initially you're like, okay, yeah, tell me.

(32:25):
Yeah, why are you so fucked upright now?
I forgot what's going on.
And then you know you don'twant to keep asking the same
questions that you asked thetime before, because you started
about the rapport.

Dylan (32:38):
It's it, it's they and that's.
I've had that.
You know, I've had four or fivegood sessions in a row over a
long period of time and they'relike and I love my therapist for
this and are you still gettingwhat you need out of me?
Like what a cool thing to asksomeone by the way yeah she
asked me that because in my jobyou know I sell IT and I I Know

(33:05):
what our company provides.
You know we provide a lot ofvalue to for our customers and
what we do.
I believe in the company as awhole, in our and where we're
going.
It's not a money-making.
I mean, we obviously are in itto make money, but we're not
there to nickel and dime.
Our Customers were there toprovide value and have a
mutually beneficial agreement.
Yeah, but still, for you to goin and be like, do you actually

(33:27):
think you still need me?
That's such a crazy statementto make and I think it's so
selfless and cool that therethat's like, hey, if you hit a
stagnation with me because,let's be honest, are like a
hundred ninety dollars a session, $200 a session for a therapist
right now.
That's a lot of money an hour.
That's it's a good rate.
And for you to just, I guessyou know you have the people

(33:48):
behind, but it's a, I don't know.
To me it's always a, it's aconfidence boost.
It's just like, hey, are youstill?
And it's like yeah, I'm good,I'm here, but Maybe, and then
the next session, like of courseyou got jinxed.
It was like I'm like yeah, yeahwe're still getting what we
need out.
And then the next session.
It's like I know we've beengood for the past five, but
we've got some stuff that'scoming up now.

Brad (34:08):
Yeah, and that's that's where I went.
Hey, but it was this, thisculmination of things that we
have been talking about over thepast year, and I was like all
right, so this thing happenedand I just I went into the black
hole, right Like I justimmediately in there and all the
like the visceral feelings areback, it's closing on me.

(34:31):
She's like well, are you ableto like step?
you know, step out of that likeemotional state and kind of see
what's going on.
I'm like, yes, this is how I doit.
I do it through writing becauseit's it allows me to step away
from the situation and kind ofremove myself and put down
thoughts with they're authentic,but they're More devoid or more

(34:54):
void of emotion than if I wastrying to have a conversation, I
think because of the automaticfeedback, and so it allows you
to get some more things outwithout Going astray into
something that somebody doesn'tagree with or whatever, and you
just kind of get your wholethought out.
And so, basically, we endedwith so when this would used to

(35:18):
happen, you know, I would go tothe black hole and then I would
just ignore stuff and would staythere for three weeks and then
eventually my brain would belike you can't do this forever.
You got to come out All right,I guess I'll see the sunshine
for a little bit, and but no SPF.
And then you start over again.
But you don't really.
You didn't really grow at all.

(35:40):
No, you just got out of thehole, which is better than not
getting out of the hole, butit's, it's gonna happen again.
I was like so now, this didn'teven last two days, and Worked
through it, looked, you knowit's it's.
It's hard when you areemotionally conflicted with

(36:03):
somebody else, for whateverreason, and to look at yourself
instead of them, that's hard.
Yeah, and that I did it thattime and and looked at some
things like, okay, so this is,this is not something new.
This is something that recurs,you know, on a on a regular
basis, that's Yearly or by yearor whatever.

(36:25):
What am I missing?
I'm clearly not doing something.
I'm not looking at it the rightway, or I'm not reacting to it,
not addressing it.
Yeah, and, and so it wasn't.
I'm looking for a solution oneway instead of, like, really
looking at the actual problem,and, and not just the problem,
but the problem with how theother person was.

Dylan (36:46):
Addressing the symptom and not the root cause.

Brad (36:48):
Yes, so I'm like, ooh, if I just do this, I'll fix the
symptom, and the symptom isn'tnecessarily a thing they were
caring about the most.
So she's like, well, that'sgood.
I was like, yeah, so that's a,and that was a culmination of
things that you know we'veworked on over the last year.

(37:10):
So, and I told her that I waslike I have I've done more
personal growth in the last yearthan I have in the last 20,
probably.

Dylan (37:21):
Easy, so I've known you.
I mean especially.

Brad (37:24):
God, you were a child, was a child, especially the last
two.
So literally like a physicalchange and then Going back
through that.

Dylan (37:36):
So and this is I've made.
You know I know other peoplemake these analogies.
People go to chiropractors,people go to physical therapist.
People go to you get your roots.
Doctor wants you to go get ablood.
You know, after mid what early?
Third is you go get a bloodtest once a year and for your
vitals, like you have checkups,you have physicals.

(37:56):
Yes, this is you.
Again, there's a level.
Not everyone needs to go asregularly.
You know there's differentintervals for everyone depending
on where you're at in your life.
Why wouldn't you think thatyour mental health wouldn't take
, wouldn't need to check upevery once in a while?
Yeah, and it's.
I have some friends that Iwould, absolutely.

(38:20):
I'm not gonna name names, Idon't wanna go down the rabbit
hole, but I could really startblasting out some yeah, but it's
not people stuff right now Ihave some really good friends
that obviously are dealing withsome intense things, but they,
I'm like, just go talk tosomeone, yeah, because you need,
and that's what it is.
It is unbiased.
It is an unbiased way.

Brad (38:41):
Okay, so let's talk about that, because I think this is a
problem.
Let me finish this.

Dylan (38:46):
Okay, I'll forget, because we all know how my brain
works.
It's not gonna go back.
So I've asked them to go andthey're like no, I think I can
work through it on myself.
And they're like I think I canget through this.
I think I can.
You know, I've got thefortitude.
It's like no amount offortitude when you're in your
own.
We've talked about this echochambers.

(39:07):
This is the epitome of an echochamber when you're dealing with
something, you don't have anoutlet.
And just when you're dealingwith something like this and
it's going to a therapist and toyour point like I have sessions
where I'll go in and it israinbows and butterflies it's
mostly trying to figure out whatwe're gonna talk about, because
life is good and that's okay,but it's just that it is still

(39:32):
an outlet.
At the end of the day it's like, okay, talked about maybe a
couple things, maybe they got afew pieces they need for
something that's gonna comelater down the road.
There's a regularity to it, butalso it doesn't allow maybe the
something in your head that isstarting to become an echo to
bounce around with.
You know, because we know everytime it hits a side of the head

(39:52):
or a wall, it's going to pickup velocity.
So it's like I might have onein there that I don't even
recognize right now because it'sso slow, but eventually, if I
let that build up, that echochamber is gonna become like
it's gonna become pinball.
So we got it out ahead it'spreemptive or it's proactive
versus reactive and we didn'tlet it build up.

(40:13):
I have you were talking aboutthis earlier thinking about
going back to school.
I have a really good friendthat's gonna graduate this May
and he's been doing all hishours.
He's gonna become a familycounselor, his LISW licensed
social worker and it's funnybecause he talks about it.

(40:36):
He goes.
Trying to do therapy onyourself is psychotic.
He goes.
I'm trained in it.
I do this for, like I'mlearning the fundamentals, I
have the background, thepedigree.
He goes me trying to talkmyself off a ledge in some way.
He goes.
It's impossible.
He goes, and I'm a professionalat it.
You can't reason with yourself.

(40:57):
You can reason with others, butit's almost impossible to
reason with yourself.

Brad (41:02):
Yeah, you build tool Like therapy is about creating tools
that you can use because, eventhough your situations are not
going to be exactly the sameevery time, there will be
similar qualities to them andthose tools allow you to
navigate that in a healthier way, a more efficient way.

(41:27):
Sometimes is what I would saybecause I have been.
Obviously I'm prettyself-reflective in some good or
bad sense.

Dylan (41:40):
Yeah, so I'm strapping your guys' self to this wagon.
Yeah and so.

Brad (41:45):
I've been able to Chocolate cake partner Work
through that stuff in the past,but not in an efficient form and
not in a pretty form.

Dylan (41:53):
It's brute force and it's not fun.

Brad (41:55):
It's not okay Grit.
Sometimes it's just a grit oflike all right, well, I'm not
fucking leaving this thing, so Iguess it's not always the
answer either.

Dylan (42:03):
There's a lot of good things that come out of just
brute force, but it's not alwaysthe answer.

Brad (42:08):
Well, if you look at it in terms of like what was it?
There was an example in herewhere they put people on
treadmill for five minutes andlike cranked the incline and
then just saw how long peoplewould go.
And then they knew they werelike, okay, you got five minutes

(42:28):
of this.
And people that were like, yeah, I'm gonna do all the whole
five minutes and were reallylike strict about it, where they
could not just do it because itwas like a mental thing, right,
so like it got uncomfortable,Ready, it got uncomfortable and
they would stick with it.
But the author of this book waslike it would be more
interesting to be like, hey, youcan come back tomorrow and try

(42:49):
again and see if you can beatyour score.
Hey, you can come back againtomorrow, but at some point,
yeah, if it's a bad thing andyou just keep hitting it and
it's a bad thing, yeah, maybegrit's not the way to approach
that thing.

Dylan (43:07):
The stigma that it's weak to go talk to somebody.
It doesn't bother me, becauseit's like I get.
That's people's self-defensemechanisms, because what we were
talking about earlier is howmany people do we know that are
like I had a terrible experience?
It's like did you have aterrible?
Experience, because youactually had to address things
you've never addressed, and so,yeah, it's going to be really

(43:27):
painful.

Brad (43:29):
But did you have a bad experience because you realized
in the first session that you'rean asshole and you don't wanna
realize that?

Dylan (43:35):
Yeah, I mean there are some things like that and I've
had experience with the peoplewho are like it was really
uncomfortable for me and they'relike did you think it was gonna
feel good the whole?
It's not.
The end goal is to feel better,but it is not the goal of the
session itself to always feelgood.
It's to understand and torecognize, see, build lasso

(44:00):
Season two Season two.

Brad (44:02):
But yeah, that's especially with people, for
people with some issues,especially for people with some
issues that they don't realizeor want to realize.
It's gonna get uncomfortable.

Dylan (44:16):
My other favorite is people are like I can brute
force through this or it's likeI can handle this on my own.
They're the ones that like snapwhen a twig falls on their back
you know what I mean.
Like the slightest littledeviation, what they accept is
okay in the world, those arelike blow-ups this, this, the

(44:38):
whole world's collapsing.
You're like, hey, maybe that'sa problem and like I think I
don't know how you feel afteryour year, but I know after like
I'm on my longest current cycleof therapy that I've ever been
on.

Brad (44:53):
Yeah.

Dylan (44:54):
I started when I was younger, after my sister died,
and then I did that through highschool and then I never kind of
really went back out as we doin high school.

Brad (45:04):
I know exactly, I don't need any medicines.

Dylan (45:06):
I don't think no, I wasn't on medicine, I did I had
a chronic illness, but I don't,I don't really know what.
I think I just yeah, I think Igot busy and it was like yeah,
whatever, you know, I think youkind of yeah, it's one of the
Teenage hormones, Teenagehormones they fix everything.
Yeah, they're the best.

Brad (45:21):
Yeah, you're not sick, you don't feel anything.

Dylan (45:24):
But the amount of stress and I'm not saying you should go
out and test this theory to youknow, actualize it but the
amount of stress that I can takeon any given time and still
have grace is completelydifferent.
It's 10 fold, 30 fold than twoor three years ago, the amount

(45:45):
of stress that I experienced ona day people forget.
Stress isn't just negative.
Stress comes in both positiveand negative forms.
They're big events, bighappenings, and you know, and
physical, emotional.

Brad (45:59):
Emotional mental.

Dylan (46:01):
And it's.
I can handle a lot because Iwork through a lot of the other
things going on in my life.
And again, it's not always thatthere's a resolution to the end
of it.
It's just talking about it andunderstanding that it's okay.

Brad (46:16):
Like we.
How about when this is apopular one?
Joe Rogan talks about why, like, road rage is so prevalent.
That's a thing he goes it's.
His take on it is that you'rein a 6,000 pound machine that's
going 60 miles an hour and atany point like you could die.

(46:36):
You just run into something.
Something runs into you.
It's an unnatural state ofbeing, body's not designed for
it, and I think it's why thecritter here begs.
I think when we carry around somuch, so much of that stress
and baggage from things, that'swhat we're like.
Our body is at 90% stress levelall the time and then you run

(46:58):
into something that is thatseems minor and that's it.
That's the straw that breakscamels back Like why, yeah, you
got a fucking problem If thisthing is setting you off, well,
it's not really that thing.

Dylan (47:19):
It's.

Brad (47:19):
It's a build up to it, you know, but we'll talk about that
.

Dylan (47:25):
Don't want to get into that.
I think, the car analogy isgood in the sense that we also
as a society move.
I think that's a big play rightnow is technology on?
The human anatomy Is how fastlife moves with technology and
the rapid fire of information.

(47:47):
The ability for us to absorbinformation, current events,
data, et cetera is what I mean.
It's not just exponentialgeometric growth compared to
what we used to have, and sohave we adapted as humans to be
able to keep up with that, orare we just no?

(48:08):
no, it's not no, it's not, youknow, and it's, it's and maybe
that was like rhetorical, butit's no.
It's like to your everyone'slike oh, these, these rates,
these rates, these rates aregoing up Like have you ever
thought about that?
We're just overstimulating thebody from.
It's not that, though humanrace is getting weaker.
It says that they're dealingwith more stressors, even though
it's not.

(48:28):
Yeah, it's different, becausewe've talked about it was kind
of with Misogi it was.
We kind of went down the pathof maybe you're not doing enough
hard stuff in your life and youneed to challenge yourself this
way and you have an abundanceof adrenaline or other things
that seek hard things.
And again, hard things aren'tjust physical.

Brad (48:47):
Hard things can be addressing certain things, but
there's also thisoverstimulation of the
population, which is informationoverload and being able to
disconnect Interesting fact,yeah, Last week and a half I
have taken my kids gamingsystems away and it wintertime

(49:08):
is bad, you're not really outand you get lulls and sports and
things like that.
No, so you're just home moreoften, and so then they're on
that more often.
And then the parent part of youand I'll call all parents out,

(49:29):
because I'm fucking one of themis that your kids on a device
and they're playing a game andthey're playing with friends
usually, like both my kidsusually are playing with their
friends.
So you're like, oh, it's social.
Yeah they're talking to theirfriends.
It's a social thing, it's this,but it really depends on what

(49:52):
they're doing and games haveadvanced in such a way.
So, like both my kids playFortnite.
I used to play Fortnite.
I haven't played it now forlike four months Because the
information processing skillsrequired to play Fortnite is
unbelievable.
I too was in that rabbit holewhere the game is.
Why is the game popular?

(50:13):
Is it like the best game I'veever made?
No, but the way it's set up isthat you get a chance and then,
oh, the chance doesn't work out,I get another chance again.
It's like playing a slotmachine, but you never run out
of money.
It's always a chance to win,always a chance to win.
And then now, through thesesoftware, like digital creators,

(50:33):
players make custom games.
So instead of a so the standardgame is 100 person battle
royale.
So 100 people get tossed intothis game Hunger games, hunger
game, style, love it.
And the last one or two or four, depending on which style
you're playing, is the winner.
Okay, right, winner takes all.

(50:54):
But you die.
And then you just repopulateinto a new 100 person game and
then a new 100 person game.
That's how it works.
But a game costs can take 25,20, 25 minutes if you win.
So you go the whole thing.

Dylan (51:11):
What do?

Brad (51:11):
you get, if you win Nothing you don't get anything,
you just get points.
You don't get anything, really.

Dylan (51:17):
You get points, you just win.

Brad (51:19):
Is there like a Fortnite League?
They have some stuff now, butso what these creators have done
?

Dylan (51:27):
What do they make all the ?
What are all the e-games?

Brad (51:30):
make money on.
Oh, they make money on, so youcan buy accessory like skins.
No, I don't mean that?

Dylan (51:35):
I mean like the professional gaming leagues?
I don't understand what you'resaying.
What are the sponsorships?
I don't know what games do theyplay in the professional gaming
leagues?

Brad (51:44):
They play Fortnite.
That's what I'm saying.
They play a bunch of them, sothey that's what I ask.
That's what I ask.

Dylan (51:49):
Do they professional athletes in that game?
Yeah, that's not what you said.
What I don't know, no.
I'm tired of this shit.

Brad (51:56):
They do hold like.
They'll hold like tournamentsevery once in a while, but just
day to day gameplay.
There's not like you're notplaying for.

Dylan (52:03):
That's what I meant.
I didn't mean that You're notplaying for.

Brad (52:06):
Yeah, there's professionals and everything.

Dylan (52:08):
Okay.

Brad (52:09):
So now there's these shorter games where you're just
in a scenario.
You're just in a scenario scenewith two other people, eight
other people, whatever.
You just try to kill each other, and then you die, and then you
respond, and then you die, andthen you respond, and then you
can just do that for I don'tknow eight hours.
And yeah, that sounds fun.

Dylan (52:33):
I don't know.
I think the last time I playeda video game, but with COVID.
But if you before that, fiveyears.

Brad (52:39):
It's this.
It's the exact same thing aswhen we're scrolling through
short style videos, because it'ssomething new every time, every
time, every time, every time,don't.

Dylan (52:50):
Yeah, I don't have to talk very.
I downloaded TikTok for thefirst time because we needed to
grab all the socials for thispodcast and I have not opened it
since I downloaded it, unless Isend you cave videos.
And then I don't open them.
You don't open them.
No, I don't look at caves.

Brad (53:08):
You need to challenge yourself, and I will.

Dylan (53:09):
I will 100%.
Oh, speak of the witch.
Hmm, big boy over here, yeah,went in the cave, sat up 90
degrees for a blood draw today.
What you know, I'm a, I'm alittle baby, I am, I am.
That's cute, but I guess afteryou donate enough blood cells

(53:33):
you're good.
That's cool.
Stem cells, not blood cells.

Brad (53:35):
My needle's coming on Tuesday, I'll jab it somewhere.
You put a needle in yourself.

Dylan (53:40):
I don't have to do that, you could do it.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's a weirdpart is, if I do it to myself,
it's better.
It is better in a weird sense.
I got a random piece of metalin my chest when I was younger.

Brad (53:54):
Oh, I didn't.

Dylan (53:56):
And I took an exacto knife and I cut my chest open
and pulled it out, okay, and Iwas fine with that.

Brad (54:01):
It probably wasn't as extreme as that sounded.

Dylan (54:03):
Okay, I saw the scar, maybe.

Brad (54:07):
So let's talk about the people with bad experiences.

Dylan (54:12):
Uh, yes, Because that's what and I don't.
I guess I don't poke in broadenough because I don't want to
with them.
But my supposition and I wouldhate to generalize is I go to
you felt uncomfortable and youdidn't like that, which is to
what we've talked about.
It's okay to feel uncomfortable.

(54:32):
It probably means there's somegrowth on the other side.

Brad (54:35):
Yes, and people All right.
So I was playing you a video.
This was from a quote, unquotelife coach, which is is this the
Christian life coach?

Dylan (54:47):
Not the same Christian life coach with the pine needles
yeah.

Brad (54:51):
Send me it.
I can play it for everyone.
No, we don't need to play itCome on.

Dylan (54:54):
No, I don't want to use the technology I do not want to
make you guys suffer throughthat right now Okay, we're not
going to do it team but they'reto you like.

Brad (55:03):
So when we talk about anything and you go, well, how
can 7% of all firefighters be,you know, psychotic, whatever
it's like?
We'll look at the generalpopulation of numbers, right, if
, if, 7% of a general populationhas X and you have a job that

(55:25):
is somewhat distributed acrossthat general population, you're
going to have those people inthere.
So, like anything, counselors,therapists, psychologists I mean
, who's a famous psychologistthat we might not agree with
sometimes?
Hmm, I don't know.

(55:46):
I was wondering if Kermit wasgoing to make a where do you
know, it's really fun going tobe coming pretty soon here.
It's really fun.

Dylan (55:55):
Really soon is the transcript analyzer for our
podcast.
It picks up your voice as adifferent person, nice, and so I
put it in as Kermit.
Now yes, Love it.
So I think Apple, I think Applepodcast is the only one that
picks up on the transcriptsright now, so I think Apple

(56:15):
podcast it's should have it.
I don't know.

Brad (56:18):
So as an example right or wrong, because I don't know the
details about this, but JordanPeterson is a psychiatrist.

Dylan (56:25):
We talk about his license anymore.

Brad (56:26):
Well, he's got to go back to school, for is he going to go
?

Dylan (56:31):
I think he doesn't need to go.
I was going to say he's makingway more money than he needs to.
What does he?
But I guess he probably stillwants to practice, Maybe.

Brad (56:40):
Yeah, he might.
How much?
I don't know how much time.
He would even have to do thatat this point.
I know, but I feel like it's aworld tour right now.

Dylan (56:47):
I feel, like you.

Brad (56:48):
But the point being, you know he has some you know
theories and notions and thingslike that, and do you think that
he is totally unbiased anddoesn't bring them to his
clients at all?
No, no, I don't think so.
Are some people really good atthat?
Yeah, probably.

(57:10):
I think that, as you, as youmost likely should be, but
people are not perfect and thosethings are going to, they're
going to creep in and so if youhappen to be talking about
something and going, going away,that they would not go, and
they, they tell you that.
They're not telling you thatit's their way, but it's going

(57:32):
against what you believe orthink should happen, or whatever
.
That's not.
I don't.
I don't even think that goodcounselors typically do that.
They don't prescribe, like,what you should do in certain
situations.

Dylan (57:49):
It's it's, it's frameworks and tools to self
recognize.
What am I experiencing?
Why am I experiencing what am Iexperiencing?
And half the time it's if youjust take a couple of deep
breaths and wait a few minutes,it might pass that.
I mean that.

Brad (58:07):
But also what.
What they ask and say aboutthings is vague for a reason
because they're not giving you a.
They're not supposed to be thelatch on.

Dylan (58:17):
They're going to be able to take it somewhere.

Brad (58:19):
Yeah, they're not going to say like, well, you need to
tell her to shut the fuck up,because it sounds like she's not
being very nice.

Dylan (58:25):
They're not.
You can't say that Well, be fun, why can't?

Brad (58:28):
you say that.
Well, for a lot of reasons.
For one, you don't.
They have to go with what yourstory is.

Dylan (58:34):
Yeah but what was your involvement?
Yeah, exactly, I think that's.
I think that's a massive one ofyou're not, you're not
exempting other people of theirresponsibility in in what they
were complicit in, but askingyourself the very simple

(58:56):
question of what could I havedone better to make this
situation go a little smootheror have released the tension, is
a very powerful question.
Yeah, and 10 times, or 9.9times out of 10, there's
probably something you couldhave.
You could have done and notsaying it would have exonerated,
it would have it would havesolved all of it, or it would

(59:19):
have it would have prevented anyof it.
But there's a good chance youcould have mitigated the risk
associated with thatconversation that actualized.
Yeah, that's been a powerfulone.
For me it's like, okay, whatcould?
Am I just not speaking clearly?
Am I not telling people theexpectations clearly enough?

(59:41):
Am I being too wishy-washy inthe, in the, in the guidelines?
But I found myself going backto that.

Brad (59:49):
But ideally I think it's vague, for for the purpose of
you need to figure it out.

Dylan (59:57):
You can't.
You also can't build someone'sit's, it's to your point.
You're going, they're going offyour story and if they say
something that's wrong, that'sgoing to build you, maybe in a
not in the way that's supposedto be happening.
They can't just, they can'tjust be like you go girl, you go
man, like yeah, and also whoawhoa, whoa, whoa.
We might be pushing some verytoxic behavior right now.

Brad (01:00:19):
And I I feel like maybe some of the stories that I've
heard lean a little bit morethat way.

Dylan (01:00:25):
Where it wouldn't help me weaponize my stuff.

Brad (01:00:28):
It's more like, you know, they told me maybe I should,
maybe I should do this, and it'slike when it's when it's
interpersonal related, you kindof focus on the person.
You're in here, we're focusingon you, what can we do to help
you, to make you better, to helpyou handle things?

(01:00:50):
I can't do anything withso-and-so, he's not in here,
we're not talking, and.
And so they're like can youbelieve that they would say and
sometimes people tell me stuffand I'm like I know I can't,
because I've I've not been inthat situation at all.
I don't know why I did that.
Literally, they don't even giveme sentences, it's mostly just

(01:01:13):
questions.
That's it, questions, yeah.

Dylan (01:01:17):
How'd that make you feel?

Brad (01:01:20):
So that's it's.

Dylan (01:01:22):
It's a little bit of a joke because it's not the real
questions.
It's an overgeneralization ofhere.

Brad (01:01:27):
Here's a specific one from my last one.
I played her.
I was like I want to, I'm goingto, I'm going to give you an
artist, I'm going to write downsome of these songs Prince no,
no, no, no, no.
Rick James no, okay.

Dylan (01:01:40):
How did you finish, sorry ?

Brad (01:01:43):
And I go.
I related to them, they,there's a whole stylistic and
backstory and all that kind ofstuff.
But lyrically this touched onso many different things in
terms of where I'm at right now,like my progression from dark
to light and and everything inbetween.

Dylan (01:02:04):
So I was like so this hit home with me maybe listen to it
, you know, whatever.

Brad (01:02:09):
So I played her one song and it's a high ren by the
artist Ren, and it's a.
It's this back and forthbetween him and his subconscious
and it's this, this dark andlight, good and evil, you know,
sane, insane type thing.

Dylan (01:02:25):
And I'm going to brave the wilderness real fast and
just say I don't like run.
That's fine.
Okay, We'll move on.
Sorry, yeah, he's, he is, and Iwill give him credit.
He's a wildly talented guy andI wish I had a one, one
hundredth of his skill.
I just it doesn't, it doesn't.
It's not that it doesn'tresonate with me, it just.

Brad (01:02:48):
I don't know.
But also I had a slowintroduction to it because I
found it through social stuffand so I'm seeing like reactions
.
We fill out forms of therapists.
It was recommended to me on myintake form.

Dylan (01:03:01):
You and all your friends, yeah.

Brad (01:03:04):
And so, anyways, I get done playing that and she's, you
know, she's like, yeah, thatwas.
She's like that was fuckingterrible.
You got really bad taste ofmusic.
I was like, thank you, that'srefreshing to hear.

Dylan (01:03:15):
I'm glad that your therapist and I are on the same
page, Um she was.

Brad (01:03:20):
So that dichotomy, like the that good and bad, the two
sided, whatever she was, do youfeel like that?
Do you feel it that intensely?
And I said, yeah, like whenyou're talking about suicide and
and you have a side that'sthat's good and a side that's
bad.
I don't know how much more of adichotomy you can get than than

(01:03:41):
that on a daily basis.
No, but, um, anyone that's gonethrough those troubles, yeah,
like yeah like you do, feel likeyou're literally arguing with
yourself trying to figuresomething out.
Um, and so I go.
I feel like less of that now,and that's kind of where the
song ends.
It's like I don't, I don't needthat.

(01:04:03):
You know, I used to think thatdid something for me.

Dylan (01:04:06):
I don't know how to feel, yeah.

Brad (01:04:08):
And, and I go, I, I.
What is that?

Dylan (01:04:11):
And I want why?
Why did that thing providesomething?
That's, that was the questionshe asked me.
Oh, weird, yeah, okay, soactually for the audience, I
didn't know that ahead of time,so I feel really good about
myself.

Brad (01:04:23):
Good for you, okay, and and I was like, but it's, I go,
I feel like less and less.
And I talked about this, Italked about the podcast, I go.
You know, when I used to writeand think deeply about things, I
was always in a dark spacealways, and I go that I felt
like that provided me all thisammo for all the stuff that I
was trying to get done in mylife.

(01:04:44):
And she goes well, what, whatdoes that thing do for you now?
Like fucking nothing.
Content bitch.
We're monetizing it.
We got Google ads, we got itall.

Dylan (01:04:54):
And it's called dollars.

Brad (01:04:56):
I like I don't all five followers.
I don't.
It doesn't, it doesn't do thatthing.
The thing that I thought itused to do, I do from the good
side of myself, now, you know.
And so, and I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,
I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,I, I.

Dylan (01:05:13):
I I.

Brad (01:05:13):
I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I
, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,I, I I.

Dylan (01:05:20):
I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I , I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,
I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,I, I, I, I, I, I'm I, I, you, I
, I, I, I, you, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I.
It's been 83 years.
I mean, was that June?

Brad (01:05:34):
Oh God, it was July last year.

Dylan (01:05:36):
I forgot we actually recorded back then.
I know we didn't do it for acouple months, we didn't have,
so yeah it's been a while, but Ithink we touched on this In a
couple months we'll be on a yearof actually recording this and
I have a close relationship inthat and I don't think we had
words for it back then.
But we've always been able tocome to each other with the

(01:05:59):
deeper and I wanna say thedarker parts of us.
I've always been comfortableopening up with my dark demons
with you and what have you been?

Brad (01:06:07):
Have you, though?
Have you been?
What do you mean?
Have you opened up?
Don't even Come on, stop.
How many bats are in there?

Dylan (01:06:15):
Oh, unbelievable man, I manage my therapist.

Brad (01:06:21):
My skeletons are like Le Brea Tar Pits.

Dylan (01:06:25):
But the mini is covered in black and even though we had
this friendship and it's onething to be able to pick up the
phone and call someone, textsomeone I mean that takes gall.
Now we're kind of on a schedulewith what we're doing here and
there are times when you comeinto the door and you're just

(01:06:46):
like I'm not feeling it, I'm nothappy.
And then we get into theseconversations and your mood
seems to spike.
So is there something do youthink between, or the difference
between, writing it down versusvocalizing?
I feel like the spoken wordmaybe might be a little bit more
prolific than the written word.
Do you get it?
I'm gonna push a button, don'tget me wrong.

(01:07:07):
Writing, I love reading, I lovewriting.
I think they're importantmediums, but I think, when it
comes to self-health, that maybevocalizing things are a little
bit more important.

Brad (01:07:19):
Yeah, I think if you're starting out and you are really
uncomfortable with stuff, writeit 100%.
Write it down Like get somestuff out of your head yeah.
So do you think?

Dylan (01:07:29):
vocalizing is the second level and you're getting to that
second level by when we forceourselves to do these and I'm
not in the same force, I think,therapy-wise, yeah, vocalizing
is more important, 100%.

Brad (01:07:41):
What about?

Dylan (01:07:42):
the podcast though, because the podcast is a little
bit more freeform and when youwrite in your moody and I'm not
saying that therapy session is afreeform, it's a sometimes it's
directed and they try to diginto one's facet when your baby
mind's going elsewhere.
So do you think there's anybenefit to just talking about

(01:08:03):
things here?

Brad (01:08:04):
Yes, because it's the conversation aspect of it is
totally different If this wasjust me talking into the
microphone.

Dylan (01:08:10):
I would.
I thought about doing a soloepisode, Did you?
And how'd that go?
I was like I would kill myself,yeah.

Brad (01:08:18):
It's because no one's there to ask you questions.
And so, for a really brief,written versus spoken word.
People think the spoken word istruer to the thoughts because
it's coming straight fromwhatever.
I got a real problem with thatbecause the linguistics is just
it's, it's, there's a big,there's a lot going on there,

(01:08:43):
100% Written word and writtenmeaning.
Like an audio book is the samething, like you can't have a
conversation with that person inthe moment that you're
listening to an audio book, sothat's essentially written word.
You're just hearing it insteadof reading it.
Right, but this is for us.

(01:09:06):
This is important because wecan have a conversation in real
time For our listeners.
It sucks for you guys becausewhen we fuck up and we say
things wrong or you havequestions, you're not involved.
But you can be if you email usat info at
terriblyonbeliviouscom.
Hello, hello, hello at terribly, either one.

Dylan (01:09:25):
Yeah, but I think there's something beautiful about that,
though, is the written word ispolished because you can have
drafts, and that's important,yes, but this.
So the thing with speech is,and I go back and forth and I
love.
I love cinema, I love movies, Ilove a good movie, I love, but

(01:09:48):
I and this is like peoplelaughing me I love theater, I
love Broadway, because they areraw.
That is one take.
They don't get to go out andtry to be, they don't try to get
to do the thing and then belike cut, let's roll it back,
and then fuck it we'll do itlive.

(01:10:10):
But you're putting yourself outthere and then learning how to
roll with the miscues.
You know you'll listen tointerviews with other people.
Yeah, there's an art in that andit's oh, we screwed this up,
but we're gonna.
This is our pivot and we canmake it.
You know we're still not gonnabreak, I think.
So both are beautiful in theirown way, but both are conveyed

(01:10:34):
to different emotions.
And you, when you go to aBroadway show, you look at the
set, you're like it's cheesy,it's overdone.
But they do it because that'swhat works for Broadway.
But that and don't get me wrongthere's some beautiful sets on
Broadway.
But if you don't have themillions of dollars to build a
fake city that you do in a movie.
Two completely differentscenarios.

(01:10:55):
Beautiful in their own way,because the set doesn't bother
you over here, because you knowthere's a rawness.
But if a set's shitty in amovie, you're like you guys
really couldn't really like stepup your game.
You guys had like months toprepare for this.
Yeah, so it's just twodifferent, two different mediums
.

Brad (01:11:12):
Yes.

Dylan (01:11:13):
And they evoke different emotions.

Brad (01:11:16):
Okay, so here's an example for that before we go back to
why the talk therapy isimportant.

Dylan (01:11:23):
I saw a video what I was getting at was that Dylan's your
new therapist.

Brad (01:11:27):
A video yesterday where it was just a random band on stage
at like a bar and they wereactually bringing somebody else
up to sing.
Was it a Beatles cover band?
No, I don't think so.
To bring up somebody else?
Please don't send me hate, Iactually do, just send me
anything.
I don't care.
And someone was coming up tosing a song and the lead guy
started playing.
You shook me all night long.

(01:11:47):
Just the guitar riff and thedrums hadn't even kicked in yet
and the whole crowd, bam, startssinging.

Dylan (01:11:56):
And then they go full on.

Brad (01:11:57):
The guy didn't even get to sing a song that came up on the
stage Cause they just ended upplaying the whole ACDC song.
And you have that.
And then you have the ACDCrecord.
So you have that's the polishedproduction song, which is
everything that we know and loveand played a million times.
And then you have this otherthing that is real living,
breathing, happening in themoment and the same thing

(01:12:21):
essentially two very differentemotions and things that they
generate.
So I think you feel one moreintensely than the other,
because this one is it's kind ofdead.
It's like the written wordright, it's polished, but it's

(01:12:43):
dead.
You can't interact with it.
It's just, it is what it isright.
Take it, leave it, think aboutwhatever you want to.
And then this one is okay, I'ma part of this as it's happening
, and when you're talking to atherapist, versus like you're
writing down your feelings, youare now alive in that moment and

(01:13:07):
it's fluid, and sometimes justsaying it's completely different
saying something out loud thanit is right now, Sometimes just
saying the thing out loud, noteven like them talking to you,
it's hard, it's hard and you'relike I'm really mad today
because I saw this pretty girland she called me poopy pants.
And you're like you're upsetabout that and you're like, no,

(01:13:28):
I'm not Cause it sounds stupid,my ego is so bruised right now?
Yeah, and so I remember going inwhen I started going to college
.
I'm like I don't fucking killmyself.
And they're like why?
And I was like I don't know, Idon't know why you ask me these
questions.
This is stupid.
Don't make me I want to bebrooding.
And so then you got to startasking yourself questions, Brad

(01:13:49):
should have been on the cover ofa Hawthorne Heights album.
And the things that are bumpingaround in that echo chamber
suddenly lose velocity andyou're like mmm, that idea
doesn't seem so strong that didnot track.

Dylan (01:14:03):
Well, this is not tracking the way I thought it
was going to.

Brad (01:14:06):
No, no, and so you know it's like.
That's why this, or trying tobe authentic with anybody.
And I'm not saying go pour yourheart out to whoever, but if
somebody asks you a question,definitely go to a dye bar and
just buy everyone around a bush,and we'll just see what happens
.
Shannon showed me a thing theother day.
That was somebody that she usedto work with and he was in a

(01:14:28):
store or a restaurant orsomething and they were like
how's your day going?
And he's like I just I had amoment when he's like it's been
pretty rough and she's like oh,what happened?
And he's like oh you know I workin a school and this and this
and this happened and you knowshe reciprocated and whatever,

(01:14:49):
and he's like you know, I don'tknow what that did, but we just
shared a moment.
Yeah, we shared a moment andthat was better.
So it's that shared humanityagain.
That's another part of therapy,I think.

Dylan (01:15:05):
It opens you up, for grace with others.
And I mean, no, that's whatthis is, that shared humanity.
Yeah well, I know you're gonnagrace with yourself.

Brad (01:15:14):
Oh my.

Dylan (01:15:14):
God, yeah, that's a big one.
So giving yourself yeah, that'sall of there, that's like five
back.

Brad (01:15:22):
guys Like giving yourself room to fuck up and then come
back.

Dylan (01:15:26):
Not weaponizing it, but also understanding that you're
human.

Brad (01:15:30):
Yeah, we're not perfect.

Dylan (01:15:30):
We're not perfect, you know, but that goes along with
understanding that you had goodand I don't know.
This is the problem, and Ishouldn't say this is a problem.
You're 100% right what you'resaying, but then you have to
caveat it because there arepeople that you know are gonna
weaponize it and be like well, Iwas just being my best person,
You're like what?
No you obviously weren't.

(01:15:51):
Yeah, that's that We've talkedabout that, and so writing,
writing first.
We talked about.
What book was that?
Or it's like you could takefour paragraphs of this book and
you could be like I'd neverhave to listen.
Oh, it was Brennan.
Oh sorry, I don't need anyoneto tell me what I need to be and
you're like, well, you're kindof a shitty human, and that's
not really what this is talkingabout.

Brad (01:16:12):
And you can't just take the one part right.
It's not just like the Bible,where we can pick out the things
that we like.
Oh, we're gonna go there now.

Dylan (01:16:19):
Hey, you would start.
I was trying to steer away fromit.
This whole hour and 18 minutesI'm sorry, we're here, let's go,
let's run.

Brad (01:16:26):
No, we're not, let's run it back Moses.
No, I don't wanna do it, butnow you got me out of there.
I'm all frazzled.

Dylan (01:16:35):
What you wanna talk about two by two.

Brad (01:16:38):
Don't look at the screen the authentic nature of just
sharing your stories with peopleand the trying to do better.
So having to write bios forthis podcast like what the fuck
are we talking about here?
It's like trying toincrementally get better at

(01:16:58):
doing life.

Dylan (01:16:59):
People overestimate what they can do in a day and
underestimate what they can doin a year, and that goes back to
what little bit of it.
You know.
Call it what you want impostersyndrome, not being able to
enjoy the moment, all of thisit's so hard to think about it
sometimes because we are instantgratification people.
Yes, and if you just holdyourself to it doesn't need to

(01:17:25):
be 100% standard, but you holdyourself to some 80% rule every
day, you're going to make that1%, 2% better and guess what?
It gets easier every day thatyou hold yourself to again, not
100%, 80%, and it gets a littlebit easier.
And then you can increment fromthat 80 and you can increment

(01:17:47):
from that.
You can increment from that.
And then, all of a sudden,where you're at next year is it
completely different.
It's, to your point, like oneyear of talking to somebody and
not even was it what we call100%.
No because you weren't goingprobably as regularly as you
needed to, because you had agood phase and you kind of did
the whole.
I'm good, I'm going to go offmy meds thing.

Brad (01:18:10):
Yeah, I mean you start figuring stuff out and then you
don't go as much and then maybesomething happens and you go
back.
It's good to trip sometimesthough it's good to understand,
be like okay, you're alwaysgoing to trip and yeah, that's
good, though that feeling isgood, because if you don't, At
some point she asked me likewhat do you want to get out of
this?
What would be the end goal?

Dylan (01:18:32):
What do you want to get?

Brad (01:18:32):
out of this.
I was like the end goal wouldbe like when I go down the dark,
slippery slope, like let's notever do that again, Like that
would be great.

Dylan (01:18:41):
But for you.
But you've got to realize atthis point in your life you're
always going to want to sleep.
It's you're probably nevergoing to not be there.
No, it's going to happen, it'sgoing to recognize it earlier
and address it earlier, wayearlier.
And that's where people confuseand I've talked about this.
What you know, one of the bestbooks I read is ADHD 2.0, and it

(01:19:05):
really kind of explains thecondition and the best way they
describe it is it's diabetes ofthe brain.
You have a condition whereyou're going to.
You can medicate, you can docertain protocols to make it
better, but every morning youwake up you have to manage it,
yeah, and if you don't manage itappropriately throughout the

(01:19:26):
day, it's going to get off trackand you're going to have so and
I've had that realization withyou know, going back to that
dinner last Wednesday.
I'm, I know I'm going to fallin the cycles again where I'm
going to go three months ofbeing like I can't do anything
but work and it's learning howto recognize it and, to your

(01:19:47):
point, forcing yourself to dothe complete opposite of what
you think you need to be doingbecause it's actually better for
you.
It's, it's.
You get warning.
You get the warning bellsearlier.

Brad (01:19:59):
Yeah, Part of it is is giving you the tools.
The other part is just givingyou the, the realization of
what's happening sooner, Causeif you don't well, we talked
about the logic and alsopermission.

Dylan (01:20:12):
It's almost giving yourself permission at some
point too, because so many timesI've recognized it and you're
like, but no, I just got to go alittle bit further and I can
get through on the other sideand it's like well giving, being
learning to have permission tobe able to take a break and did
that for 20 years Workout great.

Brad (01:20:26):
Yeah.
You're balding now I'll do it.
Thanks, can't wait till we'reon camera.
Thanks, stress.
Oh, I'll have a wig by then.
Yeah, what kind of two-page yougot to go with.
Oh, tom Cruise, top gun.

Dylan (01:20:38):
Mm yeah, you're going to have your tooth in the center of
your mouth too.
Mm what?

Brad (01:20:43):
You haven't seen us.

Dylan (01:20:44):
No, we get to use Google for the first time today.
That's it, tom.

Brad (01:20:48):
Cruise Images.
So, yeah, I mean to the core.

Dylan (01:20:57):
He's got a tooth in the middle of his face.

Brad (01:20:58):
No he doesn't.
Wait, oh no he's fixed it.
No.

Dylan (01:21:03):
Oh, he must be paying.

Brad (01:21:05):
No, you lied.
Oh no, that's Photoshopped.
Oh, they're just right there.

Dylan (01:21:11):
Right there.

Brad (01:21:13):
Oh well, they're all this.
It's off center, it's got atooth in the middle.

Dylan (01:21:19):
That's where you're going to go at them, for I love Tom
Cruise, I love top guns, one ofmy favorite movies.
It's one of my favorite movies,so much so that I probably
watched it at least twice a week, for most of my life.

Brad (01:21:30):
I think he might be an alien.

Dylan (01:21:32):
He's a Scientologist, although I heard you stepping
away.

Brad (01:21:35):
To take over a planet.

Dylan (01:21:37):
Uh-uh.
Apparently, he wants arelationship with his daughter,
and you realize that and youcan't do that through
Scientology Weird, I think hefigured out that he's amassed
enough money in life that hedoesn't really need that posse
to help him anymore.

Brad (01:21:51):
Anywho, don't look at the time.
Thank you, Tom Cruise teeth.

Dylan (01:21:55):
How do you feel about the ?

Brad (01:21:55):
episode, ending on the year long consistency and
working towards small goals andthen realizing at the end of
that year that something thatused to take me a lot of pain in
several weeks to get through isnow down to days, and the

(01:22:18):
recognition of the problem isalmost instant, instead of weeks
to never.
So does that mean I haveeverything figured out?
Oh, fuck.

Dylan (01:22:30):
No, not even close, but it allows you to take on the
next challenge.

Brad (01:22:34):
Yeah, it's growth.
It's growth and that's comingup into the next series here.
That's something that we'regoing to hit on a lot.
Angela Duckworth, great.
I don't know I might not agreewith all of it.

Dylan (01:22:49):
And hopefully by the time this episode that rolls live.

Brad (01:22:52):
you'll be in Mexico, I'll be in Vegas.

Dylan (01:22:55):
Whatever.
Actually, I'll be in townVancouver Monday morning, and
then I'll be in Las Vegas Mondayevening, and then I will be in
Cabo.

Brad (01:23:06):
Are you really going to Mexico?

Dylan (01:23:07):
I'll be in Cabo on Wednesday.
We're doing a quick Vegas tripbefore the trip.
For what?

Brad (01:23:14):
We got to go to Vegas real quick for.

Dylan (01:23:17):
I asked myself the same question.
But I'm a yes man, I just gowith the flow, whatever my
friend, whatever my OFs, myother friends, want to do, I say
, yes, you have OFs.
We're not going to talk aboutit on this podcast, not, yet I
don't have any OFs.
Well, when they heard about Ihad this podcast, they were like
who's that fucking brat guy?
It's amazing what OFs will do.

(01:23:38):
I'm the BF OF.
They're going to listen to itand they're not going to be very
happy.
So hey.

Brad (01:23:45):
Well, like the Rolling Stones said, paint of black.
No, you can't always get whatyou want.
No, they said both of it, oh,ok, and like the Beatles said,
fucking, I don't know.

Dylan (01:23:55):
Listen to a cover band, Thanks guys.
You're still here.

Brad (01:24:02):
It's over.

Dylan (01:24:06):
Go home.

Brad (01:24:11):
Go.

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