April 8, 2024 • 62 mins
Embark on a captivating odyssey through the shadows of Plato's Allegory of the Cave with Brad and me, as we peel back the layers of reality, knowledge, and the blissful spark of enlightenment that beckons from beyond our digital screens. With wit as sharp as the flickering flames that cast those ancient shadows, we navigate the murky waters of social-media-induced delusions, all the while juxtaposing the profound wisdom of antiquity with the relentless buzz of modern trends. Prepare to be whisked away from the ephemeral 'fit check' fads and plunged into the depth of philosophical musings that have withstood the test of time.
Ever found yourself questioning the nature of your own reality, or chuckling at the absurdity of trying to enlighten the happily ignorant? Sit back and join us for a hearty laugh and a healthy dose of introspection. We take you on a journey from the allegorical chains of Plato's prisoners to the popcorn-scented musings on the impacts of our favorite films. It's a rollercoaster ride through the stages of enlightenment, complete with side-splitting detours into the trials of troubleshooting Dad's network issues and the skeptical mindscape of modern-day philosophy.
As we wrap up this philosophical feast with a flourish, don't be surprised if you find yourself pondering the Prometheus within, or the Socratic gadfly buzzing around society's complacent ears. We engage in the dance of discourse, inviting you to participate in the eternal conversation about the very essence of our collective existence. So, grab your earbuds, relax, and let the conversation of millennia wash over you, all while promising not to blame us for any friends you might lose to the all-consuming allure of our delightful banter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dave (00:00):
This is the Terribly Unoblivious Podcast.
Brad (00:03):
Yep.
Dave (00:05):
I said it before and I'll say it again Life moves pretty
fast.
Brad (00:10):
You don't stop and look around once in a while, you
could miss it.
Dave (00:22):
Okay, that might be the quickest turnaround time from
not having any podcast gear setup to having podcast gear set up
and recording what it was allhere oh yeah, that's right, we
have a studio.
We're going to have a studio.
Allegedly we bought.
We bought a condo for thestudio.
(00:42):
You bought a condo.
I bought a condo for myself,but it's just a condo.
I bought a condo for myself,but it's just going to happen to
work out to be a studio as well.
I didn't buy shit.
Brad (00:49):
I didn't do any of this, yeah.
Dave (00:50):
And then lawyers in 25 years when Brad and I are having
an ugly divorce.
Remember the statement.
I don't even want it it doesn'teven have basis in the company.
No, that'll be the argument.
Be the argument.
(01:12):
I will say I was forced to workin this environment.
Brad (01:13):
Good, I, I hope you come at me for, um, uh, right now,
laws right now, I am justignorant and I'm I'm just, I'm
comfortable inside my cave I've.
Dave (01:22):
How do you always find a way to segue in today's episode
with my banter in the beginning?
Brad (01:28):
Cause I should have been a newscaster.
Should have been a newscaster,jk, you're good at it.
Dave (01:35):
No, no, why not?
Brad (01:39):
Because I don't have that voice.
I don't have the news voice.
I guess you don't.
You have to today on terriblyunoblivious we are going to talk
about stuff the moon andeverything that goes along with
it how it's fake or is it?
Dave (01:57):
yeah, that would be.
Brad (01:58):
That would be rough.
It's not what we're talkingabout.
We're actually talking aboutcaves, your favorite thing
actually actually talking aboutsome social media stuff.
I just came up with my plantheme for tomorrow what's your
plan theme tomorrow um guyupside down in a cave.
Oh god, please don't do that.
Dave (02:14):
Yeah, okay just walked right into that one, uh.
So going back, uh, two episodesnow we're gonna do a little.
We're going to pull back intoyour philosophy book.
Oh, are we?
Oh, I thought we were.
Did you write a differentepisode?
Brad (02:29):
I'm sorry, you again, I'm terribly unprepared, and Brad
Hold on.
I wrote notes.
Dave (02:34):
And Brad is prepared in episode.
Brad (02:38):
Oh, it is in here, okay, and look at that.
Dave (02:42):
Oh, love it.
It's in a bunch of places andI'm super famous and I and I
don't know much about it, hedidn't even.
Actually, I had a feeling Iknew which one was coming, but I
didn't look it up on purposebecause it's more fun just to
have some unscripted banter.
Brad (02:56):
Everybody knows, not everybody.
Dave (02:58):
Does everyone know?
Brad (02:59):
A lot of people know this story in some sense.
Okay, uh, we're going to becovering the allegory of the
cave by Plato, and this appearsin his book the Republic, where
he lays out everything thatsociety and politics and people
(03:21):
should be like, I guess, in themost ideal form.
So this is okay.
He covers a lot in that book.
This is just a small portion ofit.
Dave (03:30):
So we are get your phone off the table and stop it
buzzing.
Can't stop it, Won't stop,can't stop.
Brad (03:40):
So we're actually going to start with Soren Kierkegaard.
Okay, because he has a nicelittle intro into.
Do you want to tell theaudience who that is?
Dave (03:49):
He's a Danish philosopher.
Okay, a little quick bio.
Do we know dates times, 1800s?
Brad (03:55):
Okay, that's just a hundred year variability.
Existentialist orproto-existentialist, from
Denmark, copenhagen, actually,1813 to 1825.
You might recognize his namefrom famous movies such as
Wayne's World, wayne's World 2?
I can't remember which one itwas.
They reference him.
Dave (04:15):
What was the reference?
I don't know.
They just reference him, okay.
Brad (04:19):
They were speaking.
What was that girl?
He meets, remember that.
And they were speaking likeCantonese Cantonese, that's his
girlfriend Cause then he's likeyeah, good guard.
Oh, that's right yeah.
Oh that's him, okay.
So Kierkegaard once said thereare two ways to be fooled One is
to believe what isn't true, andthe other is to refuse to
(04:40):
believe what is true.
Makes sense, okay.
Dave (04:45):
That goes a little bit back to.
Was that the flame of reason?
Is that what you have there?
When he talks aboutopen-mindedness Coaster, it's my
coaster?
Yeah, it does a little bit ofthat Just because you believe
something completely crazydoesn't make you actually
open-minded.
Brad (05:02):
No, no, I shouldn't Sometimes nor sane or smart or
yeah, but sometimes the oppositeis true.
Okay, so the allegory of thecave we're going to it.
It is really jordan peterson'sgonna love this.
Oh, it's the archetypal hero'sjourney, okay, and it it comes
(05:26):
from some stories previous tothis, so this was written like
300 bc, something like that.
Okay, was plato's time somewherearound there and starting early
with the archetypes.
Yeah, prior to that is, a lotof these archetypes would have
come from greek mythology andthen, prior to that is, a lot of
these archetypes would havecome from Greek mythology and
then, previous to that, therewas other mythologies and if you
(05:50):
guys remember the oh, what wasthe fire God that burned his mom
a lot, you know that one, theJapanese one, yeah, oh, so
there's, there are these kindsof archetypes and they walked
around the pole wrong.
Dave (06:03):
Yeah, they walked around the pole wrong, you're right.
Yeah, I remember, I actuallypay attention.
Brad (06:08):
So the archetype of the hero is usually that the hero
brings light or wisdom orenlightenment to a downtrodden
people.
Okay, downtrodden people, okay.
This story is one of Westernphilosophy's most influential
(06:33):
philosophical concepts becauseit talks about the nature of
reality, it talks aboutknowledge and it gets into
epistemology a little bit.
So the study of knowledge andhow do we know what's true?
And and things like that, um,our perceptions, and what
actually is real enlightenment.
So it kind of goes on to all ofthese things and, uh, we've
(06:57):
talked about this way early on,that Plato kind of sets a
standard for Western philosophy.
Uh, up until who?
Maybe some of thepostmodernists start stepping
away from it a little bit, but alot of the ideas that come
through almost all Westernphilosophers, they got a pretty
(07:17):
deep root in Plato somewhere.
So the idea is that he setsforth, while everyone doesn't
agree with them, they're playingon the same field that Plato
set up.
Essentially they're playing hisgame.
Yeah, okay, yeah, now you can gointo like Eastern philosophy,
and that's a different storybecause they apply both their
kind of own set of rules.
(07:37):
Okay, so it's yeah, it's verywide reaching, I think, shall we
say so, it covers a lot ofbasis in life.
Yeah, it's very wide reaching.
Dave (07:44):
I think, Shall.
We say so we just it covers alot of basis in life.
Yeah, it's going to touch on alot of things.
Brad (07:50):
Yes, Okay, so let's get into it.
Why?
Let's start with a why.
Why should we study thesethings Like, why study any of
this shit Really?
And people that are like I wasintroduced to this in my junior
year, high school maybe, and soPlato's cave is a real
introductory like, while you canget really deep into it and it
(08:12):
touches on a lot of things, it'salso a simple story.
It's an allegory which is astory and you can take some
little piece of it.
You know whether or not you'reunderstanding the whole thing or
the full implication that he isintending, or, um, whatever.
So it's, it's a really goodlike way to dip your toe into
philosophy, and so that's why alot of especially high schoolers
(08:34):
, and definitely like intro tophilosophy and college and
things like that, we'll teachthis kind of thing.
Dave (08:40):
It's it's Ted Lassa a lot of good positivity moments
throughout it.
You know it's.
It's it's ted lasso a lot ofgood positivity moments
throughout it.
You know it's.
Brad (08:46):
It's got an overall arching theme, but there's a lot
of little lessons dabbled yes,yes, and because of this,
because the way he sets it up ina story, like, it's easy to
follow along, it's not supercomplex, that's gonna be a
problem any.
Dave (09:00):
Apparently it is complex, it's gonna be a real problem I
don't think anyone on the radiohas heard a cat sneeze before.
Brad (09:07):
Well, they heard that one, Wow.
So by studying these things andtrying to understand them a
little bit when we come intoproblems such as what Plato is
going to get into.
Here we have a little bit of aroadmap on how we can think
about these things and, even ifwe don't think the way that he
does, it gives us a little bitof a view on how we can start
(09:29):
thinking about them andprocessing through them.
Dave (09:31):
Okay, so you're going to lay out some rules for the
audience to put themselves in,keep themselves in while they're
thinking about these thingswith us.
No, okay, no what.
Brad (09:41):
You just said it.
Dave (09:42):
Okay.
Brad (09:43):
No, I'm going to give you the story, let's do it All,
right.
So I'm going to share a photoof this because it makes it even
easier, but, like anyonereading Plato, there are no
pictures, so we're going to haveto describe it.
So, imagine there are prisonersin a cave Okay.
(10:06):
Subterranean dwelling, okay.
Inside this cave, we're goingto visualize a like a brick wall
, a six foot high brick wall,okay, and these prisoners are
chained to the brick wall insuch a way that they're sitting
down on the ground, their backsare against the wall and their
head or neck are bound in such away that they can only look
(10:26):
straightforward, okay, andstraightforward is the actual
cave wall right Now.
Behind them is a walkway, sobehind the wall that they're
chained to is a walkway thatpeople can walk to and from, and
behind that walkway is a bigfire, right?
So the people that are actuallyusing this walkway do not cast
(10:50):
a shadow because the fire isabove them, okay, but they hold
on poles, figures that do castshadows, so you have a fire
casting the shadow of a figurethat is being carried by real
people onto this cave wall thatthe prisoners see, okay, okay.
(11:10):
So the prisoners are onlyseeing the shadows of figures
that are held by real people.
They do not see real people,they do not see the actual
figures.
All they see are the shadows.
Okay, so that is, that is thesetup.
So we want to talk about that.
Or you want to keep going?
Let's talk about it.
(11:31):
So you can break that, becausethere's going to be different uh
scenes to this story and ineach scene you can kind of talk
about, uh, what the implicationis of.
So you have quote unquoteprisoners yeah, I don't know how
else you describe that, becausethey're bound to a, to a thing,
(11:52):
they're not allowed to leaveand they have no interaction
with the outside world at all.
The only thing they see arethese shadows.
Okay, so today, I think I thinktoday more than ever we can
relate more to the story thanpeople, even a hundred years ago
, okay, and the way that we cando that is through the media,
(12:17):
social media, things that weperceive that we see senses.
Dave (12:22):
So what we're getting at is that you're not able to use
all of your senses in both cases, because well, you are, you are
using your senses but you'rejust not having access to all of
the information, and I thinkthat in and you can make
arguments about.
Brad (12:42):
You know there used to be papers and newspapers and then
there used to be stories andthings like that, but, like what
we've talked about before, themisinformation is not as
abundant as it is today.
Right, so the prisoners,basically, are being fed
misinformation.
Okay, because what they'reseeing is it's not actually
people.
(13:04):
It is real, but they have nobasis of knowledge to compare it
to anything else.
Okay, so they accept it as areality and they name things and
they, you know that that is thelife to them.
Similarly, I think in today'sworld, we can easily slip into
something that we thinkresembles reality because we're
(13:25):
so used to seeing it, but welose some perception on what is
actually happening around that.
Dave (13:33):
So our senses only show us the shadow of the true kind of
essence behind everything.
Yes, essence behind everything.
Yes, the there it's whilethings are happening in the
background.
People can.
Brad (13:49):
People can choose what shadow they're casting, or
others, you know well, in thissense, you can look at the
prisoners being bound also as alack of uh freedom and
specifically freedom of movementto learn.
Dave (14:09):
So in today's day and age we can extrapolate this out to a
little bit of us versus them,kind of that herd mentality, and
then social media only beingable to present certain things
and then having people latchonto that because they don't
kind of what we've talked aboutother episodes, previous
episodes.
(14:30):
People don't want to leave thatherd mentality.
You know we'll talk aboutbraving the wilderness, because
they're fearful to go, wanderthemselves out, and so them
being bound in that wall wouldbe them not braving the
wilderness.
Brad (14:44):
Yes, okay, and we'll, we will get to that as as our
archetypal hero leaves and triesto come back, okay, I think an
interesting point is at least,in the cave, these people were
not.
They didn't choose to chainthemselves to this wall.
That's just what they've alwaysknown.
(15:06):
That's and whatever.
Yeah, there's obviously someproblems with that as to how
they got there and did all thatkind of stuff, but we choose you
as we relate to today and whatwe consume in the media that we
consume and the things that wewatch.
We are doing that a bit toourselves.
So is it chaining ourselves?
(15:27):
So, in a sense, you can say,the people walking behind the
wall holding the figures,they're kind of in charge of
what the prisoners see, right,because they have to hold it up
or not hold it up, or theychoose what to hold up.
Okay, but the prisoners don'treally have any option to not
look like.
That's pretty much their onlyoption besides closing their
(15:48):
eyes, putting blinders on right.
We have lots of options.
We still have people walkingbehind the wall and kind of
picking and choosing the thingsthat they put out and want us to
see.
Okay, but we actually have thefreedom to move, move and look
at that or not.
Look at that or look atsomething else.
um so, or or look at themquestioning, thinking, critical
(16:12):
thinking so in that sense, Ithink there is a large group of
us and I think at some point allof us are guilty of this of of
choosing to purposefully be theprisoner because it's kind of
comfortable, we just it's comfysometimes, you kind of
comfortable, we just it's comfy.
Sometimes you kind of sit thereand somebody puts on the show
for you.
Dave (16:28):
Watch the picture show.
Yeah, so where's my popcorn?
Brad (16:31):
So that's extra butter.
That's the beginning of it.
Dave (16:34):
Speaking of butter, did you ever go to Nova six and just
pump your own, bro, I used tohave like two inches of butter
just in the you know what I haveright now?
Brad (16:42):
What?
Dave (16:44):
what?
Yeah, like, airs, like, likeit's.
I know that, I know thataerosol, I know that it's the I
can't believe, but but that'slike hand pop, that's, that was
the old school one.
Brad (16:52):
The hand pump now it's.
Dave (16:53):
Now it's pressurized and they figured out how to not make
it foam.
Brad (16:57):
It doesn't foam no, that's some clark, griswold shit yeah
okay.
So we make, we make, we pop ourpopcorn.
And then how do you pop yourpopcorn?
On the oven, on the stovetop?
You do, you do If you pop, ordo you have a?
Do you have a a no worldly popCrisco and popcorn kernels and
put it in a pan?
Dave (17:17):
Yeah, do you cover it and you just shake it.
Yeah, okay, I use, I use theDutch oven.
And do you know I use forbutter A real stick of Kerry
golden.
They just melted in a saucepan.
Brad (17:25):
Wow, Look at you go, dude.
For all you butter connoisseursout there.
Dave (17:32):
Life-changing, life-changing.
I suggest it to anyone.
I don't have a microwave inthis house, so so oh, can we
talk about current day trends?
Yeah, let's do it.
Brad (17:44):
It's our episode.
Nobody's going to stop us.
This is definitely into.
The only thing I really wantedto touch on was that the people
walking behind the wallinfluence what the prisoners
think to the extent that theyshow them what they can or
cannot see.
And now I see people and evenkids on any kind of thing.
(18:13):
Tiktok is a big one becausethey watch these people or
influencers, thinking thatthey're famous, and then mimic
them and it just it's hard.
It's hard because they thinkthat's reality.
Yeah, and I think I'm going totake this trend on.
(18:38):
Have you seen the fit checktrend?
People just go through?
What was a really famous onewas when they did.
What's that one sorority thatdoes or not sorority?
But college, Is it like Alabamaor is it like Bama?
Dave (18:53):
Rush Rush is crazy in the South in general, so it's like
Bama Rush or something.
Brad (18:57):
And so these girls are going through and they're doing
like I got this piece and I wearthis from this and this is this
, and then they go through alltheir jewelry and everything.
Yeah, like that's a prettyfamous one.
Okay, so now you have like nineyear olds doing this, like I
got this from Target and I foundthis, you know, in the hamper,
and this is from this place.
(19:17):
Like wow, that's, but I thinkI'm going to start doing it for
myself.
Okay, like out in the workshop,please.
Yeah, I think I think out inthe workshop, please.
Dave (19:28):
Yeah, I think, I think I could really kick something off
here milwaukee.
Brad (19:32):
Um, I got, I I found this in the garbage and I glued it
together.
That looks good it works theevery day is going to be the
same boots.
I've been wearing them for fouryears no holes?
Probably not going to change,probably not.
Yeah, so the idea that thesethings in fashion design just
(19:53):
ideas, uh, like my son watches anatural herd mentality it's.
Dave (19:59):
It's also hard to watch that and not see somebody blow
up for there's originality there, because the original ones that
blow up there's originalitythey're doing something
different.
Yeah, that's the difference.
But it's easy for everyone justto be like, oh they did it this
way, so I'll do it that way.
And it's hard to explain.
Well, they got to where they'reat because they did something
original, so now go do somethingoriginal.
Brad (20:20):
You can still produce content, but go do something
original or they figured out youknow a soundbite second, or how
, how often to switch the cameraangle and things like that.
There's all that, the type oftone of voice that you use and
things like that.
But but really the thing thatstruck me is how, how easily
(20:41):
influenced, uh, I mean reallyeverybody is everybody, it's
easy.
Because there's so much, so muchout there.
So continuing on.
All of a sudden, one prisonergets released, he becomes
unshackled.
Okay, he does the Hulk andbreaks out.
(21:04):
Is it like?
Dave (21:04):
Robin Hood, like Prince of Thieves, where Kevin Cost
costner breaks out, or did hebreak out in the beginning when
he's in?
He was.
Brad (21:14):
He was a prisoner from the oh yeah, uh, he actually cut
that guy's hand off from the, orthe other guy cut that guy's
hand.
Yeah, that was.
That was intense as a young kid.
Good, good movie, though Goodmovie, another one that I've
seen.
Dave (21:32):
Wow, we're a couple episodes in a row now.
Proud of you.
Brad (21:35):
So prisoner is allowed to climb out of his cave.
Dave (21:39):
Okay.
Brad (21:40):
So imagine that you come out of a cave from the darkness
and you get to climb up and nowyou're into the sunlight.
Eyes have got to dilate hard.
Your eyes hurt.
He is temporarily, essentiallyblinded okay right the.
He can't see anything, his eyescan't adjust to anything.
As his vision adjusts, uh, herealizes that what he thought
(22:02):
was his reality was not.
It was merely an illusion put onby a fire and some people, and
because of that he begins tosuffer.
So the initial thought ofeverything that I've known up to
this point has not been true.
(22:23):
His sight kind of regains, okay, and once his eyes adjust, he
starts to be able to pick up, uh, things that are in front of
him, so he can start seeingshapes, and then he can start
seeing the real objects and hecan start seeing reflections and
(22:44):
essentially he can adjust fullyenough that he can look up and
see the sky and the sun and allof these things.
And so now we're getting out ofthe ignorance, which is the
cave mentality, and all of thesethings that are surrounding him
are pieces of knowledge, andthen the sun is the top of it,
(23:06):
okay.
So as we get to it a little bitwe talked before about this how
Plato kind of has thishierarchy of things mm-hmm okay,
so the the world of the forms,that would be the Sun.
So the Sun is the highest, andanytime you're talking about
light, you're talking aboutknowledge or enlightenment.
That's the, the typicalmetaphor.
Has that ever happened to you?
(23:28):
Have you ever been hit withsomething that that you thought
was true, or something that youbelieved for a really long time
and then suddenly found out notthe case?
Dave (23:40):
yeah, yeah and oh, we have to explain it.
I was gonna, I was gonna say,when I realized that you
couldn't fly like in Dragon BallZ, that was a real kick in the
pants.
Really, I'm just god, that wasit.
Yeah, what was yours that youweren't gonna be six foot um, no
(24:01):
, I had, I don't.
Brad (24:04):
I still don't know if I'd fully believe that Honestly,
someday.
I had a real moment in juniorhigh where I was like I'm going
to be big.
I'm going to be big one day.
Not tall, I wasn't going to betall, I was going to be strong.
I was just going to be like,yeah, I'll be like 5'8" and I'll
be like 190.
(24:27):
Yeah, no, no, 172, soaking wet.
Not, it didn't happen.
No, no, it could happen.
Dave (24:34):
I think I'm going to make it happen now, uh, that goes to
the protein shake that youwanted on the way here.
Yeah, I did You're going toneed that little creatine?
I did.
I had this MSG with yourcreatine.
Brad (24:45):
No, okay, no, thanks, that just stir fry swells.
Ooh, I did have some MSG today.
Dave (24:50):
Ooh, there you go.
You already had it Kind of good, it's really good.
Just a little bit, though.
It's not authentic.
It doesn't have MSG.
Brad (24:58):
I've had this happen in a relationship, or what I thought
was a relationship, or what Ithought was going to be a
relationship, maybe, maybe, ohwhere and it turned out not to
be the person.
Uh, no, it just turned out likeyou read everything wrong, you
know, okay, and and I'm notaccustomed to doing that usually
(25:18):
I get a pretty good take onthings, yeah and, and this
wasn't like a one time, you know, like, oh, I got a, I got a
good vibe one time, and so Ithought yeah, you had a lot of
vibes.
There was a lot of instances ofpotential vibes that I clearly
did not.
Was she a friend's owner Nothandle properly?
Okay.
But yeah, then you confrontthat light and you're like, oh
(25:44):
yeah, none of this was real.
So it happens sometimes.
Dave (25:48):
I think that's just the world in general for me.
Every day I'm like, oh yeah,another disappointment.
Brad (25:52):
But in that, but in that sense, you, just like he, has
this initial suffering fromrealizing that none of that was
true.
It's quickly overtaken by thefact that but but now I am
learning what is true and that'sall this cool shit, and that's
better than not.
Dave (26:09):
This is shiny, this shows me, I think.
Brad (26:12):
So it's kind of him immediately doing that about
face, where he's like, yeah,okay, so everything was wrong,
but now I get to find out whatis really true, and so that's
cool, it's exciting.
I think it's exciting you getto learn what is the curve.
Dave (26:32):
We brought up a couple of times where it's-.
Brad (26:34):
Parabolic curve.
Dave (26:35):
Well, there's that too.
But people that don't know alot understand.
They don't know a lot.
And then you learn a little bit, and then you think you know
everything.
And then it is a little bitlike that, though, but it gets
exciting.
I feel like the more you learnand the more you realize it's
out there and you're like I liketo learn and I like new things,
because I need that challengeand sometimes I like new things,
(26:58):
I like shiny things Yep, I liketo chase things that I don't
think I can get.
Brad (27:04):
Yep, oh, hit that hot take button, hot takes takes.
My doctor told me I don't haveadhd.
Ah, that's a whole otherepisode.
Dave (27:14):
Save it.
Yeah, shove that shit back inyour belly for a while, because
when we start talking aboutthose things, I'm like yep, yep,
yep, yep, yep, I don't thinkyou went to a real doctor.
Well, I think big pharma gavethat doctor some money because
they're so behind on theirscripts that they don't have
enough.
We don't need to add anotherone.
Oh, we're behind.
Brad (27:36):
They're subsidizing.
No, yeah, add anymore Right.
Dave (27:41):
We need the meth for other people All right.
Brad (27:44):
So now our prisoner is is about to embark on the hard part
of his hero's journey.
Dave (27:49):
So let's recap.
Okay, let's recap.
Your senses only show a shadowof true essence of things if
you're bound by certainconstraints.
Yes yeah, if there arerestraints placed on your senses
?
Yes, Correct, moving from thedarkness into the light.
(28:10):
It's going to hurt because youreyes need to adjust and that's
going to be.
You know, your eyes are goingto probably be the metaphor for
your brain here, or?
Brad (28:19):
thought.
Dave (28:20):
Yes, thought process, so learning to critically think
along the way.
Understand things for your own.
Brad (28:30):
Have you heard the thing that when your brain learns a
new thing, it's never able toreturn to its previous size?
I don't know if that's true.
Dave (28:35):
I feel like that might be made up.
I just I feel like you maybemake a connection in your
synapses that you haven't madebefore.
But but also that connectionnever closes no it's okay, it's
open, you can bash your headacross.
It could die.
Yeah, there you go.
Not everything's everything'sfinite.
Remember that, it's true.
Okay, so we, we've.
(28:57):
We've gone from the two lessonson on to the next.
Okay, what's our third lesson?
What's our third?
Brad (29:03):
part of the story.
The third part is now thephilosopher's journey, Because
now he has become enlightenedand he feels compelled to go
back down into the cave and tellhis fellow prisoners this is
not real life.
The things that you areperceiving are not actually real
(29:24):
.
There's this whole other thingout there and you have no idea
what it is.
Dave (29:31):
uh, but the problem is this this television show wanna
want an emmy on tv.
What which isn't prison break,prison break, I don't think I
want it.
Brad (29:39):
I don't think he's.
He's not trying to break my.
Oh, okay, sorry, I think that'shis goal, maybe okay, um, but
he only has knowledge.
He doesn't have like a hacksawyet okay okay, so we're talking
low level.
Dave (29:52):
Just enough to know that this isn't the way dissemination
of knowledge, not eliminationof bondage can we go there?
Brad (30:02):
okay, yeah, all right, I gotta actually think now so now
the problem is he's beenadjusted to the light.
He sees the sun.
Now he's got to go back downinto the dark.
Okay, so he goes back down intothe cave and because now his
eyes are not accustomed to thedark and he's not able to see
the shadows like he was when helived in the dark, he stumbles
(30:25):
and he fumbles around and he'snot able to really see clearly
down there.
And so as he starts talking tothose prisoners, they
misinterpret his temporaryvision impairment for stupidity.
So they think look, you went upthere and now you don't even
(30:45):
know what any of this is.
You're just an idiot.
Dave (30:49):
And so they become.
So he's a hard time conveyinghe has a hard time.
Brad (30:53):
Not only does he have a hard time conveying, but they
become, uh, almost violentlycynical, counteractive to what
he's trying to do.
And so, dr fauci, the theharder that he tries to convey
what is really out there, themore they resist.
So, and this is his bigmetaphor for the task at hand,
(31:24):
when philosophers try to, Iguess, enlighten the masses on a
new topic, so you'rechallenging a previously
long-held belief, and that's notgoing to go very well.
Almost ever it's not good.
Dave (31:43):
It's not good.
Don't tell me Barney doesn'texist.
Brad (31:46):
He doesn't.
He doesn't exist.
This podcast is over.
It's a guy, it's Roger, it's inhis suit.
So we come back to the masses,find a sense of comfort in their
ignorance.
So there's a real sense that Idon't want to step out of the
cave.
I don't want to have to go intothis light that apparently has
(32:08):
made you disillusioned andstumbling and talking like a
fool.
Dave (32:12):
I've seen I've seen a guy smoke that before too, and he
didn't turn out that great.
Brad (32:17):
Smoke what I don't know.
Smoke what the ribs.
Oh Hickory, what do you smoke?
Dave (32:23):
Nevermind, I missed it.
Yeah, I know, it's okay.
Brad (32:27):
So would they say I'm comfortable in my ignorance?
Probably not, not most of them.
It would take a reasonablyenlightened person to have that
much self-realization, I think,much like the Roger Craig, james
Bond.
I'm aware that double O's havea short lifespan, did you say
(32:50):
roger did?
Dave (32:50):
you say roger daniel craig .
Brad (32:53):
You said roger craig oh, he's a good football player yeah
, roger moore I was roger moore.
Dave (32:58):
I did, I did, yeah, I did the crossover, yeah so don't,
why do you gotta fuck it up likethat?
I like it.
No, I like it.
It's daniel craig.
It's Daniel Craig, daniel Moore.
It's Casino Royale Roger Craigand Daniel Moore.
No, yeah, he's telling Em thather mistake won't be long-lived,
because he understands we havea short life expectancy.
(33:18):
That's a pretty ballsystatement, like it's okay.
I have that much faith in me,yeah, yeah.
Brad (33:28):
So they can become me.
Yeah, yeah, so they, they canbecome uh angry.
Dave (33:32):
Okay, defiant the masses are getting angry Take, take,
talk ban tick talk, bam ticktalk ban is right there.
Brad (33:40):
Uh, that's just, it's going to be a problem.
Dave (33:42):
Take it in my fucking shadows away.
It's going.
It's gonna be a problem and youcan't tell me why you're taking
my shadows away.
Um, or I can see the shadows.
What do you mean, you?
Or what they can't tell you?
Yeah, it's top secret.
Brad (33:54):
Yeah, exactly, um, just also their way hui, the cell
phone manufacturer.
Dave (34:01):
Yeah, again, though, again , though we have the freedom to?
Brad (34:06):
uh, we have the freedom of movement yep so unless the
monopoly is involved, unlessthat's involved so as, as a more
enlightened species in terms ofconsuming social media, we're
able to look at other things,and we need to.
I, I guess question I meanthat's I've got questions Go.
Dave (34:31):
Why don't people have all the fucking encyclopedias on
their shelves anymore?
You mail order that shit.
Brad (34:37):
You got the whole Britannica series just wait,
Because Wikipedia exists andthey just constantly change.
Dave (34:44):
But that leather-bound book is-.
You imagine that guy shows upto your door and you're like,
okay, k through L got there.
Brad (34:52):
I remember being a kid and reading the ones in my
grandma's basement and I wasthen wondering like, hey, why
isn't this in here?
I would do that at the library60 years old yeah.
Dave (35:04):
I'd be like what?
Why isn't?
Why is this not filled out?
Times are moving a little fastnow.
K through L got updated lastyear.
Would you like your two newbounds?
Yeah, I would.
Traveling door-to-door salesmanwhat a time to be alive.
Brad (35:17):
Can you imagine if they said in those that dinosaurs had
feathers?
Like the new edition was likeoh, new revelation, dinosaurs
have feathers.
I would be like this isblasphemy.
I'm gonna set these books onfire.
I can't just can't deal with it?
Dave (35:33):
and how do you know she's a witch?
Brad (35:36):
uh, if she drowns?
Dave (35:38):
what else floats on water?
A duck, a duck.
Oh, I think that scene initself kind of exemplifies the
masses of.
We've got an ignorant personthat's leading.
You know what is strange abouttoday?
Brad (35:54):
though, is that I feel like we accept new knowledge too
quickly, kind of too quickly,kind of too quickly.
I remember several months agowhen the government was
basically just like, yeah, ufosexist and aliens are out there
and we have some real knowledgeof this, and everyone was like,
(36:22):
okay, like I don't care, can you?
Dave (36:25):
lower my taxes.
Travis Kelsey is dating TaylorSwift.
We got bigger shit to worryabout.
Brad (36:31):
Have you seen the Barbie movie?
Some of these things come outand it just doesn't even
register with people anymorewhat they feel is important has
shifted.
Dave (36:45):
We have notification fatigue.
Brad (36:46):
Yeah, it's it.
Dave (36:47):
I and the perfect example of my work is I.
I get emails, I automatedemails out of our CRM system, so
like our client relationsmanagement system or content
relations management system, andI get notified so much that it
just I.
It takes a lot for me toactually read one of the emails
and I miss important shitsometimes, because 99% of the
(37:09):
time it's bullshit and then 1%of the time it's important.
And then I was and someoneslipped through the cracks.
Brad (37:14):
I feel like that's a you problem.
I feel, like you made up thatterm.
What Notification yeah.
Dave (37:20):
No, it's a very real thing , yeah, real thing.
Yeah, okay, never mind, it'slike I have.
I think we just get inundatedwith so much bs that people are
tired of filtering it.
It's an why would I burdenmyself with filtering more and
more?
And the the easy button here iswhy don't you reduce your
connection, yes, and then makeyour, your notifications more
valuable, but instead it's justlet's all, let's ignore it all.
(37:42):
Yeah.
Brad (37:44):
Makes sense and just tune it out.
Tune it out, I like that.
So while this hero is on hisjourney, he kind of also has to
realize that sometimes peoplearen't ready to leave the cave,
they don't want to come out.
Dave (38:03):
I mean half of Mr Mom.
The movie was the kid wouldn'tgive up his uh, his blankie, his
whoopee, his whoopee.
Sorry, not his blankie, hiswhoopee yeah and he wasn't ready
and then, finally, there was amoment.
I don't remember what thatmoment was it's when he went
into the room and he's like Ithink it's time he was like I'd
like to take this moment tomyself, dad, and he's just like
(38:25):
okay, Lays back on the bed, putshis hands behind his head and
he's just like, ah, what a goodmovie, it's a great one.
Oh, you saw that one too.
Holy shit, the gravity of that.
Hey, bring it on.
Michael Keaton, love it.
All right.
So some people just aren'tready to leave.
Brad (38:48):
Okay, so uh just aren't ready to leave, okay.
So, uh, there have been lots ofexamples of this.
If you want to go pre this,this is uh greek mythology.
So it's prometheus.
You know prometheus?
Do you know the story ofprometheus?
Yes, remember.
What is it?
I don't know come on prometheuswas a titan, uh, so one of the
giant people and he, he sees thegods.
Dave (39:10):
Where does atlas?
So atlas is atlas, has theworld on his back.
He's trapped there.
Yeah, and then prometheus, howmany were there?
Six, seven?
What titans?
Brad (39:21):
because only the gods feared the titans, but they put
them away yes, okay, soprometheus was titan, and so he
could see the gods up here, andthen he could see mankind, the
mortals below, and he can seethat the gods have fire and that
the mortals don't establishes.
As caveman discovers fire andhow to utilize that and keep it,
(39:42):
the fire represents theknowledge, and so he takes this
knowledge that the gods have andgives it to the mortals.
Dave (40:04):
Technology, knowledge, civilization, because they can
build off of this.
Brad (40:08):
Yes, well, just, I mean the idea of enlightenment, so
moving forward, of civilization.
However, sometimes when yougive people knowledge or what
you'd consider the truth orenlightenment, the people
previously holding on to thatdon't tend to take kindly to it.
(40:31):
So prometheus got bound to amountain where an eagle harassed
him on a daily basis.
That was his punishment.
Uh and uh, well, uh, um,socrates.
So plato's teacher, which iswho plato mostly writes about,
(40:54):
uh, was put to death in athensfor basically disrupting the
public policy and questioning,uh, those who were in charge of
whether things were really beingdone the correct way or not and
the ideas that they held.
And so for that he got to drinksome hemlock and died.
So it is a real upsetting ofthe apple cart, and the fruits
(41:20):
of your labor are often notrewarded until much later, often
not rewarded until much later.
So you don't until veryrecently.
Uh, you don't see manyphilosophers that are famous in
their time.
It is typically much later.
It's probably cause they'dcrack habit, it's probably cause
(41:42):
they seem fucking insane at thetime.
Dave (41:44):
Yeah.
Brad (41:44):
So here go the crack habit .
Dave (41:45):
I mean they might be onto something fucking insane at the
time.
Yeah, so Ergo the crack habit.
I mean they might be ontosomething.
Brad (41:49):
I miss the teeth, I would guess more shrooms or something
Mm.
So what about a modern day?
You know another really good.
Give me a modern day example ofthis, like as a story or movie
Of what Of the cave?
Of the allegory of the cave,barbie.
(42:10):
Of what of the cave?
Of the allegory of the cave,barbie movie.
I haven't seen it.
I haven't either, could be, butI haven't seen it.
Dave (42:14):
I don't know, you don't know really go show matrix oh
yeah, okay all right.
Brad (42:19):
So the cave in the matrix is.
I was gonna say, hancock,that's not.
Dave (42:24):
I know it's just not, it, that's not god, I love that
you've seen it, though I knowthat it's so disappointing.
Brad (42:32):
I forgot, jason bateman was in that too.
Yeah, so good, charlie's theirown right.
Dave (42:39):
Yeah, oh, also our spoiler alert will.
Sm Smith slaps him.
Brad (42:44):
Superhero.
Oh, the cave in the Matrix wasthe incubators.
Oh, so everyone was insidetheir own incubators, and the
figures on the sticks thatpeople would be carrying are
just the electrical inputs thatare tapped into their brain
through the plugs.
It's the program they live in,right?
(43:05):
So while everything seems real,because that is what they are
experiencing through theirsenses, they do not have the
ability to move and perceive ina different way.
And there's also a real sensethat most people, when exposed
to what the reality is, theyweren't able to make it so.
(43:30):
Once they were unplugged, theirbrain literally couldn't
compute what was happening andthey just shut down.
Um, on the, on the flip side,you have uh, who was it?
Cyrus?
Was he the?
The bald computer guy where hewants to go back?
He wants to go back into thecave.
Yes, he's like, just fucking,give me that he's eating, give
(43:51):
me that blue pill eating thesteak.
Dave (43:53):
And yeah, I know this is like I know this isn't real, but
my brain's telling me this isjuicy and tender and and he
wants to go back and be rich soyou have this and you you also
have uh.
Brad (44:07):
So Neo in, that is the real, like hero's journey he has
to go through.
He comes out of the shadows andthe darkness.
He's called into this adventure, uh, which is learning about
what the matrix is, and he goesthrough these trials and
tribulations about how he can, Iguess, kind of convert himself
(44:31):
into something greater, and thenhe has to return.
So he has to go back into theMatrix and defeat so that he can
help basically free the peoplethere and learn Kung Fu, and
learn Kung Fu, learn Kung Fu andmaybe how to like I don't know
dodge bullets and fly ahelicopter and other things.
(44:53):
So who's the Morpheus is a bitlike the philosopher in that
sense where he's.
He's trying to figure out who,who's ready to leave and who's
not right, who wants to stay inthe shackles and who he can
break free and get on his side.
He's trying to build the team.
Dave (45:14):
And he's looking for who's the?
Brad (45:15):
oracle in this.
Dave (45:18):
Prometheus.
Brad (45:20):
The sun, I don't know.
Okay, maybe there's some issuesyou want to talk about the
issues.
Dave (45:27):
Yeah, or my issues.
Brad (45:28):
Okay, so Plato's hierarchy .
He's got four levels Pyramid,pyramid scheme Ready.
Buy my product?
Okay, it's the best.
You know what's better than myproduct?
You selling my product on myteam, that's better.
Then we can both use it.
Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't sure ifyou knew how pyramid scheme
worked I know how it works, allright.
Dave (45:51):
So on the bottom yoli yeah , yoli, okay yeah, okay, yeah,
I'm super healthy I drink green,green shakes.
Brad (45:58):
Yeah shit, your brains lose the weight, that's it's not
yoli, that's alley Ollie.
Dave (46:04):
I don't remember what the other one is Ellie.
Brad (46:10):
Allegedly yeah, I don't know.
First level imitations.
So you can think of this aspaintings.
Let's go with representations,yes, okay, like a painting of a
flower Okay, the next level upwould be individuals.
So now you have the actualflower, the real life flower
(46:31):
Okay, that would be anindividual.
Then you have the concept, sothe concept of beauty in a
flower, or the redness of theflower, okay, okay, the redness
of the flower.
Dave (46:44):
Okay, okay.
Brad (46:45):
And then you have this idea of the forms, which is the
absolute perfection of thebeauty in that flower, and it's
not something that we can attain, right?
So this world is other worldly.
So I don't, I don't want to saycause I can't say for sure,
(47:07):
like when we die we might go tothe world of the forms, where
things are perfect.
So you see, uh, it's at.
Dave (47:14):
Elysium.
Is that Elysium?
Brad (47:16):
I don't know, not sure.
I haven't seen that one.
Fuck you, quit bringing upthose movies.
Dave (47:23):
No, that's, that's the term for.
Brad (47:26):
But it is a movie.
Yeah, so there's.
Dave (47:31):
Yeah, by the Greek religious.
It was the afterlife.
It was like that was theirheaven, elysium.
Okay.
Brad (47:38):
So the world of the forms is like the perfect archetypes,
right?
So?
Dave (47:44):
if the Jordan Petersons.
Brad (47:46):
If Neo is right, so if the jordan peterson's, if neo is uh
, I mean he is an individual inthe movie the concept of neo is
a step above that as the thehero's journey archetype.
And then there would be anotherstep above that, which is the
(48:06):
creme de la creme.
Right, neo's not perfect and wenot perfect enough.
Keanu reeves is perfect, platowould say not perfect enough I
guess we gotta get john wickiganacademy award.
Dave (48:20):
Not perfect enough, okay.
So you know it's neverattainable never enough yeah,
okay, I don't like that.
You don't like that you can'tbecome perfect, or that I don't
like that.
Everything exists outside ofwhat we are capable of I think
you can lose some form andfunction with that, or some form
(48:41):
and order I.
If that's the case, how do you,how do you, motivate people?
Brad (48:48):
um, I'm sure he talks about that.
Okay, because there is a realsense of, of that sense of like
arete, where you're striving tobe the best that you can be.
Um, it's just that in any giventopic, there's going to be
something that is profoundlymore perfect than what you're
(49:08):
doing or what you are, whatyou're seeing.
Does that make sense?
Dave (49:12):
All right, I'm right there with you.
Brad (49:14):
So what is like?
What is one of the realimportant things of the cave it?
It begs the question can wedoubt what we are seeing?
Right?
So can we learn to question ourown understanding about the
(49:37):
nature of our reality?
And if we're able to do that,our perception is probably going
to widen and we're probablygoing to learn a lot more.
If we, if we, don't ever doubtthat what we see or what we
think, or what we hear or knowis incorrect, we have no reason
to look elsewhere.
Questions are good.
(49:58):
So that's a.
That's a big one.
Dave (50:02):
That's.
I think we I have this sayingthat I've stolen from others and
it's, show your work.
Um, and we, we were, we live in, or I work in, a very, uh,
reactionary world.
You know customer service it oryou know third-party it.
We, we wait for people to call,and not necessarily my team,
(50:24):
but elements of our office waitfor people to call for, not
necessarily my team, butelements of our office wait for
people to call for something tobe wrong.
And the client inevitably say mycomputer doesn't work.
And you're like, okay, is itplugged in that and that's?
But then they'll say they'llimmediately do that.
I've already restarted, I'vedone this, I've done this, I've
done this.
Okay, so they've told us fourthings they've done.
Now, how do we confirm they'veactually done it?
(50:47):
Because there's so many timeswhere we've taken them at face
value and we've wasted hours ofresources over something they
said they did but they actuallydo not, because they were
malicious and were lying to us.
They just didn't conceptuallyunderstand what it really meant
to restart the computer or tomake sure the monitors were
plugged in, because there's hdmiand there's a power cord also.
It's, it is okay, walk methrough what you did.
(51:11):
Let's show your work, and it'seven engineer to engineer.
Hey, I am escalating an issueto you right now.
Yeah, okay, show your work,because either you have enough
of a solid foundation for me towork off of and keep continuing
on, or if you have elements ofyour base that are broken, then
I have nothing to stand on.
Brad (51:31):
So sure you work, yeah yeah, did you plug the computer
in?
Yes, I plugged in the powerstrip.
Is the power strip on?
Yeah, there's a power stripplugged in okay, yeah I plugged
in the wall.
Okay, did you make sure thatthat circuit's on?
Does something else work inthat plugin?
Dave (51:50):
Okay, so I have.
It happened yesterday with meand my dad.
I did a bunch of stuff at hishouse for him, um, and he called
me and he's like I don't thinkyour network's working here.
I'm like well, what do you mean?
He's like I can't get the TV toturn on, so the network's bad,
(52:12):
okay.
Well, let me let me look atyour network real fast.
And I pulled up on my phone,cause there's a, there's an app
that does it, for I mean I cansee what is and isn't connected.
And I'm like uh, it shows yoursmart controller.
It's called savant, says it'soffline.
So why don't you go downstairsand look at that?
Computer goes downstairs Yep,no green light.
Okay, why don't you unplug it?
Plug it back in Still no greenlight.
Okay, what's it plugged intopower strip?
(52:33):
Okay, is the power stripplugged in?
Is it showing green?
Yep, okay.
Now pull the cord out of thepower strip and put it into a
different one.
Oh, yeah, it's turning on.
Okay, you've bad power strip,right?
He's like oh well, that's great, it works now.
Brad (52:46):
Yeah.
Dave (52:47):
But guess what?
It wasn't the network, it wasyour power strips broken, which
has nothing to do with thenetwork.
So that's a reminder.
Actually, I need to buy him anew power strip.
Brad (52:57):
So so there there's that idea of, of can you constantly
question.
I mean essentially, that's whatphilosophy is right it is.
Dave (53:07):
It's constantly questioning, but there are.
I've seen this from peoplebefore.
Well, how do?
What is the very foundation ofit all, and what can and can't
we trust?
And if that means nothing, thenmy mind is constantly spiraling
and I have nothing to attach myhopes, dreams and reasons to.
Brad (53:23):
And it's we will get there at some episode.
The fact is even even the few.
Dave (53:31):
What is being?
Brad (53:32):
who, even the few people that have read heidegger and and
want to ask that question.
They don't live their life likethat you can't it.
It's really not efficient, noway to live your life, no right.
So it's, but there are.
So, when you get down to it,are you going to make
(53:55):
assumptions and presuppositions?
Have to, yes, you have to, butwhy?
Because we don't fucking knoweverything it's very low level.
Dave (54:03):
You're making very low level assumptions.
You're not that allow you tobuild a base that is stable,
because those low levelassumptions aren't going to get
ripped away.
Brad (54:13):
But if you make some very high level assumptions, those
have the ability to get rippedaway and shake your world, and
we're talking about assumptions,like I believe, because I
perceive everything that isaround me and that I can leave
and come back and close my eyesand open my eyes and and all of
these things, that this is myreality, yes, that I choose to
(54:37):
believe that I am not in asimulation.
Well, how do you know you'renot in a simulation?
Dave (54:41):
I don't, I don't, I can't, I cannot prove currently that.
Brad (54:43):
I'm not in a simulation Right, but I, I don't, I can't,
I cannot prove currently thatI'm not in a simulation Right,
but I, I choose to believe that.
Okay, because all of theinformation that is given to me
leads me to believe that this isreal.
Dave (54:56):
What, what what's the flip side?
Oh, I believe I'm in asimulation.
What does it change?
It doesn't change anythingbesides the fact that you're
stuck here.
Um yeah, what are are you gonnado about it?
How are you gonna get yourselfout?
Find?
Brad (55:10):
morpheus, yeah, morpheus, I just, I just need to.
I just need to get on dos.
I just need to get on ms dos inthe middle of the night and
play techno music and I'll befine, he will come.
Dave (55:26):
For me.
Morpheus is like a really badaesthetics company hardware
piece.
Yeah, I think, actually.
I think it is actually a laser.
Brad (55:34):
I feel like morpheus is probably a lot of bad things.
Yeah, based off of that movie.
Yeah, so in that sense, uh, thesocrates is very famous line,
uh, which is that there's nomeaning in living in the
darkness, like the prisonersthat are chained to the wall.
There's no meaning to theirlife, whether they live or die,
(55:54):
or nothing changes in the worldoutside of them.
And so his saying is theunexamined life is not worth
living.
Why?
Because you're just watchingthe wall.
That's what you're doing.
You're not actively engaging,so you're not actively poking,
prodding, have effect on, on thethings that are around you.
(56:15):
In order to do that, you needto gain some new perspectives
and question things right, andthat the last kind of piece is,
if you do go on that journey andI think there, I think there
will be some people going onthis journey I know one of our
listeners that text me and saidhey, I'm buying philosophy books
(56:36):
.
What should I get?
I was like fucking everything.
I go.
Where are you?
And she goes books a million.
And I was like buy all thefucking Bibles I had to go past.
There's nothing else there.
Dave (56:45):
I had to go by.
I had to go past.
There's nothing else there.
I had to go by.
I had to go by 11 racks to getto this section.
Brad (56:54):
It's a little dusty.
It's in the back I wasn't Idon't think the light bulbs work
back here but that there's some.
There's some good shit outthere.
There's tons of boring stufftoo, you know it's not all super
exciting, but there areexciting ways to think about it.
Um, but just know that as yougo on that journey and this
isn't just philosophy related,but anything knowledge-based
which is philosophy-based themore you learn and the more you
(57:19):
challenge other people, the morethey're probably not going to
like you.
So going against the status quois not comfortable.
You're brave of going to likeyou.
So going against the status quouh it's.
It's not comfortable.
Dave (57:29):
You're brave of the wilderness, yes.
Brad (57:30):
So, if you find yourself going down that road, go back
and listen to the braving, thewilderness episodes, because
that's where you're going tofind yourself.
Uh, but so so it is.
Can you have the courage tojourney towards enlightenment,
even if it means distancingyourself from the ones that you
love, the people that younormally surround yourself with?
Right, and I guess if theyreally love you, then they're
(57:52):
gonna be accepting of thatjourney, would, hopefully, would
be the thing.
But there's plenty of instances, especially when we're younger
and by younger I mean collegeand past that really where you
surround yourself with peopleand as soon as you start kind of
breaking out of the status quo,of what the normal conditions,
are.
Yeah, yeah, suddenly, suddenlywe don't seem so tight anymore
(58:15):
by yeah, so just know thatthat's, that's a real
possibility, so it's okay, thathappens.
Dave (58:24):
It happens all the time You'll find people.
Unless you're in a really smalltown in the middle of wyoming,
you'll still find people.
And that's not a knock against.
Wyoming happen like wyoming.
Brad (58:33):
It's just a remote place, it's just hard to yeah, we, we
like these homogenous neat, or?
Zones right, neat, orderlyboxes, and so we kind of all
just kind of mold ourselves intothese a little bit.
Sometimes we're faking it andjust so we don't kind of disrupt
that.
But if you really want to startgetting down to things, you're
(58:55):
gonna have to disrupt that.
You're gonna have to stand upto somebody that's like vaccines
are not a real thing.
You're like well okay, I thinkthere's a little bit of science
behind some of that so, yeah,let's, let's talk about
eradicating polio, so lettingthat back in.
So that's good job, guys but,but there are these things where
and, and that's that's a,that's like a reversal.
(59:17):
I I find that some of thearguments that we're in today
are not so much, uh, becausepeople are moving forward too
much, it's because people aregoing backwards too much.
Not so much because people aremoving forward too much, it's
because people are goingbackwards too much, and and
you're having to like, fightthat same fight all over again.
But the same can be true.
And the the ones that I thinkof are is it?
He's on?
He's been on Rogan a ton oftimes.
(59:38):
He's got a thing on Netflix,it's Graham Hancock, and so all
of the ancient civilizationsthings like that.
And a lot of the ways that hethinks about things and actually
how far civilizations have goneback and what kind of
intelligence they had.
They talk about the dark agesfor a reason and what.
Dave (59:57):
I mean like what Europe was post Roman empire was wild
yeah, I mean just prior to priorto that prior to like Egypt,
egypt.
Brad (01:00:08):
You know, like you're talking, 10 000 years ago there
was probably there, he thinks, acivilization at least as
advanced as egypt.
And 30 years ago, I mean stilltoday he's.
He's shunned by a lot of people, but 30 years ago he was like a
leper.
You know, get out of here.
(01:00:29):
You have no business being here.
And the more and more knowledgethat comes out it raises a lot.
I mean maybe not so much answers, but a lot more questions where
it's like, well, yeah, thatdoes kind of make sense.
And also, where are all thesignificant answers for the
questions that he's asking thateverybody seems to previously
have known the answers to?
(01:00:49):
So are you gonna face some,some struggles?
Yeah you are.
Dave (01:00:56):
You're not gonna learn comfortably yeah, learning's not
usually comfortable no so, andif it's fun you're doing it
wrong.
Usually comfortable no so, andif it's fun you're doing it
wrong no no, no, yes, maybesometimes, I don't know learning
can be fun.
Yeah, it is, but it's okay.
I mean you have to understandthat your head's gonna go
(01:01:17):
through.
You're gonna bash your head ina couple times, like if you're
just constantly making progresswithout some interruption, you
might not be doing it right.
Brad (01:01:25):
Well, if, if something is easy, you're typically not
learning, you need stressors.
Yes, if you're doing somethingand it's easy, you kind of
already know how to do it.
Does that make sense?
It does.
You know what I would love what?
I would love someone to ask aquestion about this episode.
Dave (01:01:44):
Who me?
No, oh, anybody.
There's nobody here to mean youoh, I mean later.
Oh, not right put it in thecomments, guys like.
Subscribe all the fun shit.
Share it with your friends,please.
Brad (01:01:59):
Yeah, that'd be cool, do that sure, sure, you guys have
friends right yeah, hey, youmight not after you listen to
this.
Dave (01:02:07):
You too, you got friends.
Share it all.
Right, um any.
Any last thoughts before wewrap this up, besides the
comments, um, tiny hands no, I'mabout to drink a lot.
Brad (01:02:20):
Get into a hot takes episode, love it all right
thanks guys, see you guys later.
Dave (01:02:24):
Bye, you're still here it's over go home go.
This is the Terribly Unoblivious Podcast.
Brad (00:03):
Yep.
Dave (00:05):
I said it before and I'll say it again Life moves pretty
fast.
Brad (00:10):
You don't stop and look around once in a while, you
could miss it.
Dave (00:22):
Okay, that might be the quickest turnaround time from
not having any podcast gear setup to having podcast gear set up
and recording what it was allhere oh yeah, that's right, we
have a studio.
We're going to have a studio.
Allegedly we bought.
We bought a condo for thestudio.
(00:42):
You bought a condo.
I bought a condo for myself,but it's just a condo.
I bought a condo for myself,but it's just going to happen to
work out to be a studio as well.
I didn't buy shit.
Brad (00:49):
I didn't do any of this, yeah.
Dave (00:50):
And then lawyers in 25 years when Brad and I are having
an ugly divorce.
Remember the statement.
I don't even want it it doesn'teven have basis in the company.
No, that'll be the argument.
Be the argument.
(01:12):
I will say I was forced to workin this environment.
Brad (01:13):
Good, I, I hope you come at me for, um, uh, right now,
laws right now, I am justignorant and I'm I'm just, I'm
comfortable inside my cave I've.
Dave (01:22):
How do you always find a way to segue in today's episode
with my banter in the beginning?
Brad (01:28):
Cause I should have been a newscaster.
Should have been a newscaster,jk, you're good at it.
Dave (01:35):
No, no, why not?
Brad (01:39):
Because I don't have that voice.
I don't have the news voice.
I guess you don't.
You have to today on terriblyunoblivious we are going to talk
about stuff the moon andeverything that goes along with
it how it's fake or is it?
Dave (01:57):
yeah, that would be.
Brad (01:58):
That would be rough.
It's not what we're talkingabout.
We're actually talking aboutcaves, your favorite thing
actually actually talking aboutsome social media stuff.
I just came up with my plantheme for tomorrow what's your
plan theme tomorrow um guyupside down in a cave.
Oh god, please don't do that.
Dave (02:14):
Yeah, okay just walked right into that one, uh.
So going back, uh, two episodesnow we're gonna do a little.
We're going to pull back intoyour philosophy book.
Oh, are we?
Oh, I thought we were.
Did you write a differentepisode?
Brad (02:29):
I'm sorry, you again, I'm terribly unprepared, and Brad
Hold on.
I wrote notes.
Dave (02:34):
And Brad is prepared in episode.
Brad (02:38):
Oh, it is in here, okay, and look at that.
Dave (02:42):
Oh, love it.
It's in a bunch of places andI'm super famous and I and I
don't know much about it, hedidn't even.
Actually, I had a feeling Iknew which one was coming, but I
didn't look it up on purposebecause it's more fun just to
have some unscripted banter.
Brad (02:56):
Everybody knows, not everybody.
Dave (02:58):
Does everyone know?
Brad (02:59):
A lot of people know this story in some sense.
Okay, uh, we're going to becovering the allegory of the
cave by Plato, and this appearsin his book the Republic, where
he lays out everything thatsociety and politics and people
(03:21):
should be like, I guess, in themost ideal form.
So this is okay.
He covers a lot in that book.
This is just a small portion ofit.
Dave (03:30):
So we are get your phone off the table and stop it
buzzing.
Can't stop it, Won't stop,can't stop.
Brad (03:40):
So we're actually going to start with Soren Kierkegaard.
Okay, because he has a nicelittle intro into.
Do you want to tell theaudience who that is?
Dave (03:49):
He's a Danish philosopher.
Okay, a little quick bio.
Do we know dates times, 1800s?
Brad (03:55):
Okay, that's just a hundred year variability.
Existentialist orproto-existentialist, from
Denmark, copenhagen, actually,1813 to 1825.
You might recognize his namefrom famous movies such as
Wayne's World, wayne's World 2?
I can't remember which one itwas.
They reference him.
Dave (04:15):
What was the reference?
I don't know.
They just reference him, okay.
Brad (04:19):
They were speaking.
What was that girl?
He meets, remember that.
And they were speaking likeCantonese Cantonese, that's his
girlfriend Cause then he's likeyeah, good guard.
Oh, that's right yeah.
Oh that's him, okay.
So Kierkegaard once said thereare two ways to be fooled One is
to believe what isn't true, andthe other is to refuse to
(04:40):
believe what is true.
Makes sense, okay.
Dave (04:45):
That goes a little bit back to.
Was that the flame of reason?
Is that what you have there?
When he talks aboutopen-mindedness Coaster, it's my
coaster?
Yeah, it does a little bit ofthat Just because you believe
something completely crazydoesn't make you actually
open-minded.
Brad (05:02):
No, no, I shouldn't Sometimes nor sane or smart or
yeah, but sometimes the oppositeis true.
Okay, so the allegory of thecave we're going to it.
It is really jordan peterson'sgonna love this.
Oh, it's the archetypal hero'sjourney, okay, and it it comes
(05:26):
from some stories previous tothis, so this was written like
300 bc, something like that.
Okay, was plato's time somewherearound there and starting early
with the archetypes.
Yeah, prior to that is, a lotof these archetypes would have
come from greek mythology andthen, prior to that is, a lot of
these archetypes would havecome from Greek mythology and
then, previous to that, therewas other mythologies and if you
(05:50):
guys remember the oh, what wasthe fire God that burned his mom
a lot, you know that one, theJapanese one, yeah, oh, so
there's, there are these kindsof archetypes and they walked
around the pole wrong.
Dave (06:03):
Yeah, they walked around the pole wrong, you're right.
Yeah, I remember, I actuallypay attention.
Brad (06:08):
So the archetype of the hero is usually that the hero
brings light or wisdom orenlightenment to a downtrodden
people.
Okay, downtrodden people, okay.
This story is one of Westernphilosophy's most influential
(06:33):
philosophical concepts becauseit talks about the nature of
reality, it talks aboutknowledge and it gets into
epistemology a little bit.
So the study of knowledge andhow do we know what's true?
And and things like that, um,our perceptions, and what
actually is real enlightenment.
So it kind of goes on to all ofthese things and, uh, we've
(06:57):
talked about this way early on,that Plato kind of sets a
standard for Western philosophy.
Uh, up until who?
Maybe some of thepostmodernists start stepping
away from it a little bit, but alot of the ideas that come
through almost all Westernphilosophers, they got a pretty
(07:17):
deep root in Plato somewhere.
So the idea is that he setsforth, while everyone doesn't
agree with them, they're playingon the same field that Plato
set up.
Essentially they're playing hisgame.
Yeah, okay, yeah, now you can gointo like Eastern philosophy,
and that's a different storybecause they apply both their
kind of own set of rules.
(07:37):
Okay, so it's yeah, it's verywide reaching, I think, shall we
say so, it covers a lot ofbasis in life.
Yeah, it's very wide reaching.
Dave (07:44):
I think, Shall.
We say so we just it covers alot of basis in life.
Yeah, it's going to touch on alot of things.
Brad (07:50):
Yes, Okay, so let's get into it.
Why?
Let's start with a why.
Why should we study thesethings Like, why study any of
this shit Really?
And people that are like I wasintroduced to this in my junior
year, high school maybe, and soPlato's cave is a real
introductory like, while you canget really deep into it and it
(08:12):
touches on a lot of things, it'salso a simple story.
It's an allegory which is astory and you can take some
little piece of it.
You know whether or not you'reunderstanding the whole thing or
the full implication that he isintending, or, um, whatever.
So it's, it's a really goodlike way to dip your toe into
philosophy, and so that's why alot of especially high schoolers
(08:34):
, and definitely like intro tophilosophy and college and
things like that, we'll teachthis kind of thing.
Dave (08:40):
It's it's Ted Lassa a lot of good positivity moments
throughout it.
You know it's.
It's it's ted lasso a lot ofgood positivity moments
throughout it.
You know it's.
Brad (08:46):
It's got an overall arching theme, but there's a lot
of little lessons dabbled yes,yes, and because of this,
because the way he sets it up ina story, like, it's easy to
follow along, it's not supercomplex, that's gonna be a
problem any.
Dave (09:00):
Apparently it is complex, it's gonna be a real problem I
don't think anyone on the radiohas heard a cat sneeze before.
Brad (09:07):
Well, they heard that one, Wow.
So by studying these things andtrying to understand them a
little bit when we come intoproblems such as what Plato is
going to get into.
Here we have a little bit of aroadmap on how we can think
about these things and, even ifwe don't think the way that he
does, it gives us a little bitof a view on how we can start
(09:29):
thinking about them andprocessing through them.
Dave (09:31):
Okay, so you're going to lay out some rules for the
audience to put themselves in,keep themselves in while they're
thinking about these thingswith us.
No, okay, no what.
Brad (09:41):
You just said it.
Dave (09:42):
Okay.
Brad (09:43):
No, I'm going to give you the story, let's do it All,
right.
So I'm going to share a photoof this because it makes it even
easier, but, like anyonereading Plato, there are no
pictures, so we're going to haveto describe it.
So, imagine there are prisonersin a cave Okay.
(10:06):
Subterranean dwelling, okay.
Inside this cave, we're goingto visualize a like a brick wall
, a six foot high brick wall,okay, and these prisoners are
chained to the brick wall insuch a way that they're sitting
down on the ground, their backsare against the wall and their
head or neck are bound in such away that they can only look
(10:26):
straightforward, okay, andstraightforward is the actual
cave wall right Now.
Behind them is a walkway, sobehind the wall that they're
chained to is a walkway thatpeople can walk to and from, and
behind that walkway is a bigfire, right?
So the people that are actuallyusing this walkway do not cast
(10:50):
a shadow because the fire isabove them, okay, but they hold
on poles, figures that do castshadows, so you have a fire
casting the shadow of a figurethat is being carried by real
people onto this cave wall thatthe prisoners see, okay, okay.
(11:10):
So the prisoners are onlyseeing the shadows of figures
that are held by real people.
They do not see real people,they do not see the actual
figures.
All they see are the shadows.
Okay, so that is, that is thesetup.
So we want to talk about that.
Or you want to keep going?
Let's talk about it.
(11:31):
So you can break that, becausethere's going to be different uh
scenes to this story and ineach scene you can kind of talk
about, uh, what the implicationis of.
So you have quote unquoteprisoners yeah, I don't know how
else you describe that, becausethey're bound to a, to a thing,
(11:52):
they're not allowed to leaveand they have no interaction
with the outside world at all.
The only thing they see arethese shadows.
Okay, so today, I think I thinktoday more than ever we can
relate more to the story thanpeople, even a hundred years ago
, okay, and the way that we cando that is through the media,
(12:17):
social media, things that weperceive that we see senses.
Dave (12:22):
So what we're getting at is that you're not able to use
all of your senses in both cases, because well, you are, you are
using your senses but you'rejust not having access to all of
the information, and I thinkthat in and you can make
arguments about.
Brad (12:42):
You know there used to be papers and newspapers and then
there used to be stories andthings like that, but, like what
we've talked about before, themisinformation is not as
abundant as it is today.
Right, so the prisoners,basically, are being fed
misinformation.
Okay, because what they'reseeing is it's not actually
people.
(13:04):
It is real, but they have nobasis of knowledge to compare it
to anything else.
Okay, so they accept it as areality and they name things and
they, you know that that is thelife to them.
Similarly, I think in today'sworld, we can easily slip into
something that we thinkresembles reality because we're
(13:25):
so used to seeing it, but welose some perception on what is
actually happening around that.
Dave (13:33):
So our senses only show us the shadow of the true kind of
essence behind everything.
Yes, essence behind everything.
Yes, the there it's whilethings are happening in the
background.
People can.
Brad (13:49):
People can choose what shadow they're casting, or
others, you know well, in thissense, you can look at the
prisoners being bound also as alack of uh freedom and
specifically freedom of movementto learn.
Dave (14:09):
So in today's day and age we can extrapolate this out to a
little bit of us versus them,kind of that herd mentality, and
then social media only beingable to present certain things
and then having people latchonto that because they don't
kind of what we've talked aboutother episodes, previous
episodes.
(14:30):
People don't want to leave thatherd mentality.
You know we'll talk aboutbraving the wilderness, because
they're fearful to go, wanderthemselves out, and so them
being bound in that wall wouldbe them not braving the
wilderness.
Brad (14:44):
Yes, okay, and we'll, we will get to that as as our
archetypal hero leaves and triesto come back, okay, I think an
interesting point is at least,in the cave, these people were
not.
They didn't choose to chainthemselves to this wall.
That's just what they've alwaysknown.
(15:06):
That's and whatever.
Yeah, there's obviously someproblems with that as to how
they got there and did all thatkind of stuff, but we choose you
as we relate to today and whatwe consume in the media that we
consume and the things that wewatch.
We are doing that a bit toourselves.
So is it chaining ourselves?
(15:27):
So, in a sense, you can say,the people walking behind the
wall holding the figures,they're kind of in charge of
what the prisoners see, right,because they have to hold it up
or not hold it up, or theychoose what to hold up.
Okay, but the prisoners don'treally have any option to not
look like.
That's pretty much their onlyoption besides closing their
(15:48):
eyes, putting blinders on right.
We have lots of options.
We still have people walkingbehind the wall and kind of
picking and choosing the thingsthat they put out and want us to
see.
Okay, but we actually have thefreedom to move, move and look
at that or not.
Look at that or look atsomething else.
um so, or or look at themquestioning, thinking, critical
(16:12):
thinking so in that sense, Ithink there is a large group of
us and I think at some point allof us are guilty of this of of
choosing to purposefully be theprisoner because it's kind of
comfortable, we just it's comfysometimes, you kind of
comfortable, we just it's comfy.
Sometimes you kind of sit thereand somebody puts on the show
for you.
Dave (16:28):
Watch the picture show.
Yeah, so where's my popcorn?
Brad (16:31):
So that's extra butter.
That's the beginning of it.
Dave (16:34):
Speaking of butter, did you ever go to Nova six and just
pump your own, bro, I used tohave like two inches of butter
just in the you know what I haveright now?
Brad (16:42):
What?
Dave (16:44):
what?
Yeah, like, airs, like, likeit's.
I know that, I know thataerosol, I know that it's the I
can't believe, but but that'slike hand pop, that's, that was
the old school one.
Brad (16:52):
The hand pump now it's.
Dave (16:53):
Now it's pressurized and they figured out how to not make
it foam.
Brad (16:57):
It doesn't foam no, that's some clark, griswold shit yeah
okay.
So we make, we make, we pop ourpopcorn.
And then how do you pop yourpopcorn?
On the oven, on the stovetop?
You do, you do If you pop, ordo you have a?
Do you have a a no worldly popCrisco and popcorn kernels and
put it in a pan?
Dave (17:17):
Yeah, do you cover it and you just shake it.
Yeah, okay, I use, I use theDutch oven.
And do you know I use forbutter A real stick of Kerry
golden.
They just melted in a saucepan.
Brad (17:25):
Wow, Look at you go, dude.
For all you butter connoisseursout there.
Dave (17:32):
Life-changing, life-changing.
I suggest it to anyone.
I don't have a microwave inthis house, so so oh, can we
talk about current day trends?
Yeah, let's do it.
Brad (17:44):
It's our episode.
Nobody's going to stop us.
This is definitely into.
The only thing I really wantedto touch on was that the people
walking behind the wallinfluence what the prisoners
think to the extent that theyshow them what they can or
cannot see.
And now I see people and evenkids on any kind of thing.
(18:13):
Tiktok is a big one becausethey watch these people or
influencers, thinking thatthey're famous, and then mimic
them and it just it's hard.
It's hard because they thinkthat's reality.
Yeah, and I think I'm going totake this trend on.
(18:38):
Have you seen the fit checktrend?
People just go through?
What was a really famous onewas when they did.
What's that one sorority thatdoes or not sorority?
But college, Is it like Alabamaor is it like Bama?
Dave (18:53):
Rush Rush is crazy in the South in general, so it's like
Bama Rush or something.
Brad (18:57):
And so these girls are going through and they're doing
like I got this piece and I wearthis from this and this is this
, and then they go through alltheir jewelry and everything.
Yeah, like that's a prettyfamous one.
Okay, so now you have like nineyear olds doing this, like I
got this from Target and I foundthis, you know, in the hamper,
and this is from this place.
(19:17):
Like wow, that's, but I thinkI'm going to start doing it for
myself.
Okay, like out in the workshop,please.
Yeah, I think I think out inthe workshop, please.
Dave (19:28):
Yeah, I think, I think I could really kick something off
here milwaukee.
Brad (19:32):
Um, I got, I I found this in the garbage and I glued it
together.
That looks good it works theevery day is going to be the
same boots.
I've been wearing them for fouryears no holes?
Probably not going to change,probably not.
Yeah, so the idea that thesethings in fashion design just
(19:53):
ideas, uh, like my son watches anatural herd mentality it's.
Dave (19:59):
It's also hard to watch that and not see somebody blow
up for there's originality there, because the original ones that
blow up there's originalitythey're doing something
different.
Yeah, that's the difference.
But it's easy for everyone justto be like, oh they did it this
way, so I'll do it that way.
And it's hard to explain.
Well, they got to where they'reat because they did something
original, so now go do somethingoriginal.
Brad (20:20):
You can still produce content, but go do something
original or they figured out youknow a soundbite second, or how
, how often to switch the cameraangle and things like that.
There's all that, the type oftone of voice that you use and
things like that.
But but really the thing thatstruck me is how, how easily
(20:41):
influenced, uh, I mean reallyeverybody is everybody, it's
easy.
Because there's so much, so muchout there.
So continuing on.
All of a sudden, one prisonergets released, he becomes
unshackled.
Okay, he does the Hulk andbreaks out.
(21:04):
Is it like?
Dave (21:04):
Robin Hood, like Prince of Thieves, where Kevin Cost
costner breaks out, or did hebreak out in the beginning when
he's in?
He was.
Brad (21:14):
He was a prisoner from the oh yeah, uh, he actually cut
that guy's hand off from the, orthe other guy cut that guy's
hand.
Yeah, that was.
That was intense as a young kid.
Good, good movie, though Goodmovie, another one that I've
seen.
Dave (21:32):
Wow, we're a couple episodes in a row now.
Proud of you.
Brad (21:35):
So prisoner is allowed to climb out of his cave.
Dave (21:39):
Okay.
Brad (21:40):
So imagine that you come out of a cave from the darkness
and you get to climb up and nowyou're into the sunlight.
Eyes have got to dilate hard.
Your eyes hurt.
He is temporarily, essentiallyblinded okay right the.
He can't see anything, his eyescan't adjust to anything.
As his vision adjusts, uh, herealizes that what he thought
(22:02):
was his reality was not.
It was merely an illusion put onby a fire and some people, and
because of that he begins tosuffer.
So the initial thought ofeverything that I've known up to
this point has not been true.
(22:23):
His sight kind of regains, okay, and once his eyes adjust, he
starts to be able to pick up, uh, things that are in front of
him, so he can start seeingshapes, and then he can start
seeing the real objects and hecan start seeing reflections and
(22:44):
essentially he can adjust fullyenough that he can look up and
see the sky and the sun and allof these things.
And so now we're getting out ofthe ignorance, which is the
cave mentality, and all of thesethings that are surrounding him
are pieces of knowledge, andthen the sun is the top of it,
(23:06):
okay.
So as we get to it a little bitwe talked before about this how
Plato kind of has thishierarchy of things mm-hmm okay,
so the the world of the forms,that would be the Sun.
So the Sun is the highest, andanytime you're talking about
light, you're talking aboutknowledge or enlightenment.
That's the, the typicalmetaphor.
Has that ever happened to you?
(23:28):
Have you ever been hit withsomething that that you thought
was true, or something that youbelieved for a really long time
and then suddenly found out notthe case?
Dave (23:40):
yeah, yeah and oh, we have to explain it.
I was gonna, I was gonna say,when I realized that you
couldn't fly like in Dragon BallZ, that was a real kick in the
pants.
Really, I'm just god, that wasit.
Yeah, what was yours that youweren't gonna be six foot um, no
(24:01):
, I had, I don't.
Brad (24:04):
I still don't know if I'd fully believe that Honestly,
someday.
I had a real moment in juniorhigh where I was like I'm going
to be big.
I'm going to be big one day.
Not tall, I wasn't going to betall, I was going to be strong.
I was just going to be like,yeah, I'll be like 5'8" and I'll
be like 190.
(24:27):
Yeah, no, no, 172, soaking wet.
Not, it didn't happen.
No, no, it could happen.
Dave (24:34):
I think I'm going to make it happen now, uh, that goes to
the protein shake that youwanted on the way here.
Yeah, I did You're going toneed that little creatine?
I did.
I had this MSG with yourcreatine.
Brad (24:45):
No, okay, no, thanks, that just stir fry swells.
Ooh, I did have some MSG today.
Dave (24:50):
Ooh, there you go.
You already had it Kind of good, it's really good.
Just a little bit, though.
It's not authentic.
It doesn't have MSG.
Brad (24:58):
I've had this happen in a relationship, or what I thought
was a relationship, or what Ithought was going to be a
relationship, maybe, maybe, ohwhere and it turned out not to
be the person.
Uh, no, it just turned out likeyou read everything wrong, you
know, okay, and and I'm notaccustomed to doing that usually
(25:18):
I get a pretty good take onthings, yeah and, and this
wasn't like a one time, you know, like, oh, I got a, I got a
good vibe one time, and so Ithought yeah, you had a lot of
vibes.
There was a lot of instances ofpotential vibes that I clearly
did not.
Was she a friend's owner Nothandle properly?
Okay.
But yeah, then you confrontthat light and you're like, oh
(25:44):
yeah, none of this was real.
So it happens sometimes.
Dave (25:48):
I think that's just the world in general for me.
Every day I'm like, oh yeah,another disappointment.
Brad (25:52):
But in that, but in that sense, you, just like he, has
this initial suffering fromrealizing that none of that was
true.
It's quickly overtaken by thefact that but but now I am
learning what is true and that'sall this cool shit, and that's
better than not.
Dave (26:09):
This is shiny, this shows me, I think.
Brad (26:12):
So it's kind of him immediately doing that about
face, where he's like, yeah,okay, so everything was wrong,
but now I get to find out whatis really true, and so that's
cool, it's exciting.
I think it's exciting you getto learn what is the curve.
Dave (26:32):
We brought up a couple of times where it's-.
Brad (26:34):
Parabolic curve.
Dave (26:35):
Well, there's that too.
But people that don't know alot understand.
They don't know a lot.
And then you learn a little bit, and then you think you know
everything.
And then it is a little bitlike that, though, but it gets
exciting.
I feel like the more you learnand the more you realize it's
out there and you're like I liketo learn and I like new things,
because I need that challengeand sometimes I like new things,
(26:58):
I like shiny things Yep, I liketo chase things that I don't
think I can get.
Brad (27:04):
Yep, oh, hit that hot take button, hot takes takes.
My doctor told me I don't haveadhd.
Ah, that's a whole otherepisode.
Dave (27:14):
Save it.
Yeah, shove that shit back inyour belly for a while, because
when we start talking aboutthose things, I'm like yep, yep,
yep, yep, yep, I don't thinkyou went to a real doctor.
Well, I think big pharma gavethat doctor some money because
they're so behind on theirscripts that they don't have
enough.
We don't need to add anotherone.
Oh, we're behind.
Brad (27:36):
They're subsidizing.
No, yeah, add anymore Right.
Dave (27:41):
We need the meth for other people All right.
Brad (27:44):
So now our prisoner is is about to embark on the hard part
of his hero's journey.
Dave (27:49):
So let's recap.
Okay, let's recap.
Your senses only show a shadowof true essence of things if
you're bound by certainconstraints.
Yes yeah, if there arerestraints placed on your senses
?
Yes, Correct, moving from thedarkness into the light.
(28:10):
It's going to hurt because youreyes need to adjust and that's
going to be.
You know, your eyes are goingto probably be the metaphor for
your brain here, or?
Brad (28:19):
thought.
Dave (28:20):
Yes, thought process, so learning to critically think
along the way.
Understand things for your own.
Brad (28:30):
Have you heard the thing that when your brain learns a
new thing, it's never able toreturn to its previous size?
I don't know if that's true.
Dave (28:35):
I feel like that might be made up.
I just I feel like you maybemake a connection in your
synapses that you haven't madebefore.
But but also that connectionnever closes no it's okay, it's
open, you can bash your headacross.
It could die.
Yeah, there you go.
Not everything's everything'sfinite.
Remember that, it's true.
Okay, so we, we've.
(28:57):
We've gone from the two lessonson on to the next.
Okay, what's our third lesson?
What's our third?
Brad (29:03):
part of the story.
The third part is now thephilosopher's journey, Because
now he has become enlightenedand he feels compelled to go
back down into the cave and tellhis fellow prisoners this is
not real life.
The things that you areperceiving are not actually real
(29:24):
.
There's this whole other thingout there and you have no idea
what it is.
Dave (29:31):
uh, but the problem is this this television show wanna
want an emmy on tv.
What which isn't prison break,prison break, I don't think I
want it.
Brad (29:39):
I don't think he's.
He's not trying to break my.
Oh, okay, sorry, I think that'shis goal, maybe okay, um, but
he only has knowledge.
He doesn't have like a hacksawyet okay okay, so we're talking
low level.
Dave (29:52):
Just enough to know that this isn't the way dissemination
of knowledge, not eliminationof bondage can we go there?
Brad (30:02):
okay, yeah, all right, I gotta actually think now so now
the problem is he's beenadjusted to the light.
He sees the sun.
Now he's got to go back downinto the dark.
Okay, so he goes back down intothe cave and because now his
eyes are not accustomed to thedark and he's not able to see
the shadows like he was when helived in the dark, he stumbles
(30:25):
and he fumbles around and he'snot able to really see clearly
down there.
And so as he starts talking tothose prisoners, they
misinterpret his temporaryvision impairment for stupidity.
So they think look, you went upthere and now you don't even
(30:45):
know what any of this is.
You're just an idiot.
Dave (30:49):
And so they become.
So he's a hard time conveyinghe has a hard time.
Brad (30:53):
Not only does he have a hard time conveying, but they
become, uh, almost violentlycynical, counteractive to what
he's trying to do.
And so, dr fauci, the theharder that he tries to convey
what is really out there, themore they resist.
So, and this is his bigmetaphor for the task at hand,
(31:24):
when philosophers try to, Iguess, enlighten the masses on a
new topic, so you'rechallenging a previously
long-held belief, and that's notgoing to go very well.
Almost ever it's not good.
Dave (31:43):
It's not good.
Don't tell me Barney doesn'texist.
Brad (31:46):
He doesn't.
He doesn't exist.
This podcast is over.
It's a guy, it's Roger, it's inhis suit.
So we come back to the masses,find a sense of comfort in their
ignorance.
So there's a real sense that Idon't want to step out of the
cave.
I don't want to have to go intothis light that apparently has
(32:08):
made you disillusioned andstumbling and talking like a
fool.
Dave (32:12):
I've seen I've seen a guy smoke that before too, and he
didn't turn out that great.
Brad (32:17):
Smoke what I don't know.
Smoke what the ribs.
Oh Hickory, what do you smoke?
Dave (32:23):
Nevermind, I missed it.
Yeah, I know, it's okay.
Brad (32:27):
So would they say I'm comfortable in my ignorance?
Probably not, not most of them.
It would take a reasonablyenlightened person to have that
much self-realization, I think,much like the Roger Craig, james
Bond.
I'm aware that double O's havea short lifespan, did you say
(32:50):
roger did?
Dave (32:50):
you say roger daniel craig .
Brad (32:53):
You said roger craig oh, he's a good football player yeah
, roger moore I was roger moore.
Dave (32:58):
I did, I did, yeah, I did the crossover, yeah so don't,
why do you gotta fuck it up likethat?
I like it.
No, I like it.
It's daniel craig.
It's Daniel Craig, daniel Moore.
It's Casino Royale Roger Craigand Daniel Moore.
No, yeah, he's telling Em thather mistake won't be long-lived,
because he understands we havea short life expectancy.
(33:18):
That's a pretty ballsystatement, like it's okay.
I have that much faith in me,yeah, yeah.
Brad (33:28):
So they can become me.
Yeah, yeah, so they, they canbecome uh angry.
Dave (33:32):
Okay, defiant the masses are getting angry Take, take,
talk ban tick talk, bam ticktalk ban is right there.
Brad (33:40):
Uh, that's just, it's going to be a problem.
Dave (33:42):
Take it in my fucking shadows away.
It's going.
It's gonna be a problem and youcan't tell me why you're taking
my shadows away.
Um, or I can see the shadows.
What do you mean, you?
Or what they can't tell you?
Yeah, it's top secret.
Brad (33:54):
Yeah, exactly, um, just also their way hui, the cell
phone manufacturer.
Dave (34:01):
Yeah, again, though, again , though we have the freedom to?
Brad (34:06):
uh, we have the freedom of movement yep so unless the
monopoly is involved, unlessthat's involved so as, as a more
enlightened species in terms ofconsuming social media, we're
able to look at other things,and we need to.
I, I guess question I meanthat's I've got questions Go.
Dave (34:31):
Why don't people have all the fucking encyclopedias on
their shelves anymore?
You mail order that shit.
Brad (34:37):
You got the whole Britannica series just wait,
Because Wikipedia exists andthey just constantly change.
Dave (34:44):
But that leather-bound book is-.
You imagine that guy shows upto your door and you're like,
okay, k through L got there.
Brad (34:52):
I remember being a kid and reading the ones in my
grandma's basement and I wasthen wondering like, hey, why
isn't this in here?
I would do that at the library60 years old yeah.
Dave (35:04):
I'd be like what?
Why isn't?
Why is this not filled out?
Times are moving a little fastnow.
K through L got updated lastyear.
Would you like your two newbounds?
Yeah, I would.
Traveling door-to-door salesmanwhat a time to be alive.
Brad (35:17):
Can you imagine if they said in those that dinosaurs had
feathers?
Like the new edition was likeoh, new revelation, dinosaurs
have feathers.
I would be like this isblasphemy.
I'm gonna set these books onfire.
I can't just can't deal with it?
Dave (35:33):
and how do you know she's a witch?
Brad (35:36):
uh, if she drowns?
Dave (35:38):
what else floats on water?
A duck, a duck.
Oh, I think that scene initself kind of exemplifies the
masses of.
We've got an ignorant personthat's leading.
You know what is strange abouttoday?
Brad (35:54):
though, is that I feel like we accept new knowledge too
quickly, kind of too quickly,kind of too quickly.
I remember several months agowhen the government was
basically just like, yeah, ufosexist and aliens are out there
and we have some real knowledgeof this, and everyone was like,
(36:22):
okay, like I don't care, can you?
Dave (36:25):
lower my taxes.
Travis Kelsey is dating TaylorSwift.
We got bigger shit to worryabout.
Brad (36:31):
Have you seen the Barbie movie?
Some of these things come outand it just doesn't even
register with people anymorewhat they feel is important has
shifted.
Dave (36:45):
We have notification fatigue.
Brad (36:46):
Yeah, it's it.
Dave (36:47):
I and the perfect example of my work is I.
I get emails, I automatedemails out of our CRM system, so
like our client relationsmanagement system or content
relations management system, andI get notified so much that it
just I.
It takes a lot for me toactually read one of the emails
and I miss important shitsometimes, because 99% of the
(37:09):
time it's bullshit and then 1%of the time it's important.
And then I was and someoneslipped through the cracks.
Brad (37:14):
I feel like that's a you problem.
I feel, like you made up thatterm.
What Notification yeah.
Dave (37:20):
No, it's a very real thing , yeah, real thing.
Yeah, okay, never mind, it'slike I have.
I think we just get inundatedwith so much bs that people are
tired of filtering it.
It's an why would I burdenmyself with filtering more and
more?
And the the easy button here iswhy don't you reduce your
connection, yes, and then makeyour, your notifications more
valuable, but instead it's justlet's all, let's ignore it all.
(37:42):
Yeah.
Brad (37:44):
Makes sense and just tune it out.
Tune it out, I like that.
So while this hero is on hisjourney, he kind of also has to
realize that sometimes peoplearen't ready to leave the cave,
they don't want to come out.
Dave (38:03):
I mean half of Mr Mom.
The movie was the kid wouldn'tgive up his uh, his blankie, his
whoopee, his whoopee.
Sorry, not his blankie, hiswhoopee yeah and he wasn't ready
and then, finally, there was amoment.
I don't remember what thatmoment was it's when he went
into the room and he's like Ithink it's time he was like I'd
like to take this moment tomyself, dad, and he's just like
(38:25):
okay, Lays back on the bed, putshis hands behind his head and
he's just like, ah, what a goodmovie, it's a great one.
Oh, you saw that one too.
Holy shit, the gravity of that.
Hey, bring it on.
Michael Keaton, love it.
All right.
So some people just aren'tready to leave.
Brad (38:48):
Okay, so uh just aren't ready to leave, okay.
So, uh, there have been lots ofexamples of this.
If you want to go pre this,this is uh greek mythology.
So it's prometheus.
You know prometheus?
Do you know the story ofprometheus?
Yes, remember.
What is it?
I don't know come on prometheuswas a titan, uh, so one of the
giant people and he, he sees thegods.
Dave (39:10):
Where does atlas?
So atlas is atlas, has theworld on his back.
He's trapped there.
Yeah, and then prometheus, howmany were there?
Six, seven?
What titans?
Brad (39:21):
because only the gods feared the titans, but they put
them away yes, okay, soprometheus was titan, and so he
could see the gods up here, andthen he could see mankind, the
mortals below, and he can seethat the gods have fire and that
the mortals don't establishes.
As caveman discovers fire andhow to utilize that and keep it,
(39:42):
the fire represents theknowledge, and so he takes this
knowledge that the gods have andgives it to the mortals.
Dave (40:04):
Technology, knowledge, civilization, because they can
build off of this.
Brad (40:08):
Yes, well, just, I mean the idea of enlightenment, so
moving forward, of civilization.
However, sometimes when yougive people knowledge or what
you'd consider the truth orenlightenment, the people
previously holding on to thatdon't tend to take kindly to it.
(40:31):
So prometheus got bound to amountain where an eagle harassed
him on a daily basis.
That was his punishment.
Uh and uh, well, uh, um,socrates.
So plato's teacher, which iswho plato mostly writes about,
(40:54):
uh, was put to death in athensfor basically disrupting the
public policy and questioning,uh, those who were in charge of
whether things were really beingdone the correct way or not and
the ideas that they held.
And so for that he got to drinksome hemlock and died.
So it is a real upsetting ofthe apple cart, and the fruits
(41:20):
of your labor are often notrewarded until much later, often
not rewarded until much later.
So you don't until veryrecently.
Uh, you don't see manyphilosophers that are famous in
their time.
It is typically much later.
It's probably cause they'dcrack habit, it's probably cause
(41:42):
they seem fucking insane at thetime.
Dave (41:44):
Yeah.
Brad (41:44):
So here go the crack habit .
Dave (41:45):
I mean they might be onto something fucking insane at the
time.
Yeah, so Ergo the crack habit.
I mean they might be ontosomething.
Brad (41:49):
I miss the teeth, I would guess more shrooms or something
Mm.
So what about a modern day?
You know another really good.
Give me a modern day example ofthis, like as a story or movie
Of what Of the cave?
Of the allegory of the cave,barbie.
(42:10):
Of what of the cave?
Of the allegory of the cave,barbie movie.
I haven't seen it.
I haven't either, could be, butI haven't seen it.
Dave (42:14):
I don't know, you don't know really go show matrix oh
yeah, okay all right.
Brad (42:19):
So the cave in the matrix is.
I was gonna say, hancock,that's not.
Dave (42:24):
I know it's just not, it, that's not god, I love that
you've seen it, though I knowthat it's so disappointing.
Brad (42:32):
I forgot, jason bateman was in that too.
Yeah, so good, charlie's theirown right.
Dave (42:39):
Yeah, oh, also our spoiler alert will.
Sm Smith slaps him.
Brad (42:44):
Superhero.
Oh, the cave in the Matrix wasthe incubators.
Oh, so everyone was insidetheir own incubators, and the
figures on the sticks thatpeople would be carrying are
just the electrical inputs thatare tapped into their brain
through the plugs.
It's the program they live in,right?
(43:05):
So while everything seems real,because that is what they are
experiencing through theirsenses, they do not have the
ability to move and perceive ina different way.
And there's also a real sensethat most people, when exposed
to what the reality is, theyweren't able to make it so.
(43:30):
Once they were unplugged, theirbrain literally couldn't
compute what was happening andthey just shut down.
Um, on the, on the flip side,you have uh, who was it?
Cyrus?
Was he the?
The bald computer guy where hewants to go back?
He wants to go back into thecave.
Yes, he's like, just fucking,give me that he's eating, give
(43:51):
me that blue pill eating thesteak.
Dave (43:53):
And yeah, I know this is like I know this isn't real, but
my brain's telling me this isjuicy and tender and and he
wants to go back and be rich soyou have this and you you also
have uh.
Brad (44:07):
So Neo in, that is the real, like hero's journey he has
to go through.
He comes out of the shadows andthe darkness.
He's called into this adventure, uh, which is learning about
what the matrix is, and he goesthrough these trials and
tribulations about how he can, Iguess, kind of convert himself
(44:31):
into something greater, and thenhe has to return.
So he has to go back into theMatrix and defeat so that he can
help basically free the peoplethere and learn Kung Fu, and
learn Kung Fu, learn Kung Fu andmaybe how to like I don't know
dodge bullets and fly ahelicopter and other things.
(44:53):
So who's the Morpheus is a bitlike the philosopher in that
sense where he's.
He's trying to figure out who,who's ready to leave and who's
not right, who wants to stay inthe shackles and who he can
break free and get on his side.
He's trying to build the team.
Dave (45:14):
And he's looking for who's the?
Brad (45:15):
oracle in this.
Dave (45:18):
Prometheus.
Brad (45:20):
The sun, I don't know.
Okay, maybe there's some issuesyou want to talk about the
issues.
Dave (45:27):
Yeah, or my issues.
Brad (45:28):
Okay, so Plato's hierarchy .
He's got four levels Pyramid,pyramid scheme Ready.
Buy my product?
Okay, it's the best.
You know what's better than myproduct?
You selling my product on myteam, that's better.
Then we can both use it.
Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't sure ifyou knew how pyramid scheme
worked I know how it works, allright.
Dave (45:51):
So on the bottom yoli yeah , yoli, okay yeah, okay, yeah,
I'm super healthy I drink green,green shakes.
Brad (45:58):
Yeah shit, your brains lose the weight, that's it's not
yoli, that's alley Ollie.
Dave (46:04):
I don't remember what the other one is Ellie.
Brad (46:10):
Allegedly yeah, I don't know.
First level imitations.
So you can think of this aspaintings.
Let's go with representations,yes, okay, like a painting of a
flower Okay, the next level upwould be individuals.
So now you have the actualflower, the real life flower
(46:31):
Okay, that would be anindividual.
Then you have the concept, sothe concept of beauty in a
flower, or the redness of theflower, okay, okay, the redness
of the flower.
Dave (46:44):
Okay, okay.
Brad (46:45):
And then you have this idea of the forms, which is the
absolute perfection of thebeauty in that flower, and it's
not something that we can attain, right?
So this world is other worldly.
So I don't, I don't want to saycause I can't say for sure,
(47:07):
like when we die we might go tothe world of the forms, where
things are perfect.
So you see, uh, it's at.
Dave (47:14):
Elysium.
Is that Elysium?
Brad (47:16):
I don't know, not sure.
I haven't seen that one.
Fuck you, quit bringing upthose movies.
Dave (47:23):
No, that's, that's the term for.
Brad (47:26):
But it is a movie.
Yeah, so there's.
Dave (47:31):
Yeah, by the Greek religious.
It was the afterlife.
It was like that was theirheaven, elysium.
Okay.
Brad (47:38):
So the world of the forms is like the perfect archetypes,
right?
So?
Dave (47:44):
if the Jordan Petersons.
Brad (47:46):
If Neo is right, so if the jordan peterson's, if neo is uh
, I mean he is an individual inthe movie the concept of neo is
a step above that as the thehero's journey archetype.
And then there would be anotherstep above that, which is the
(48:06):
creme de la creme.
Right, neo's not perfect and wenot perfect enough.
Keanu reeves is perfect, platowould say not perfect enough I
guess we gotta get john wickiganacademy award.
Dave (48:20):
Not perfect enough, okay.
So you know it's neverattainable never enough yeah,
okay, I don't like that.
You don't like that you can'tbecome perfect, or that I don't
like that.
Everything exists outside ofwhat we are capable of I think
you can lose some form andfunction with that, or some form
(48:41):
and order I.
If that's the case, how do you,how do you, motivate people?
Brad (48:48):
um, I'm sure he talks about that.
Okay, because there is a realsense of, of that sense of like
arete, where you're striving tobe the best that you can be.
Um, it's just that in any giventopic, there's going to be
something that is profoundlymore perfect than what you're
(49:08):
doing or what you are, whatyou're seeing.
Does that make sense?
Dave (49:12):
All right, I'm right there with you.
Brad (49:14):
So what is like?
What is one of the realimportant things of the cave it?
It begs the question can wedoubt what we are seeing?
Right?
So can we learn to question ourown understanding about the
(49:37):
nature of our reality?
And if we're able to do that,our perception is probably going
to widen and we're probablygoing to learn a lot more.
If we, if we, don't ever doubtthat what we see or what we
think, or what we hear or knowis incorrect, we have no reason
to look elsewhere.
Questions are good.
(49:58):
So that's a.
That's a big one.
Dave (50:02):
That's.
I think we I have this sayingthat I've stolen from others and
it's, show your work.
Um, and we, we were, we live in, or I work in, a very, uh,
reactionary world.
You know customer service it oryou know third-party it.
We, we wait for people to call,and not necessarily my team,
(50:24):
but elements of our office waitfor people to call for, not
necessarily my team, butelements of our office wait for
people to call for something tobe wrong.
And the client inevitably say mycomputer doesn't work.
And you're like, okay, is itplugged in that and that's?
But then they'll say they'llimmediately do that.
I've already restarted, I'vedone this, I've done this, I've
done this.
Okay, so they've told us fourthings they've done.
Now, how do we confirm they'veactually done it?
(50:47):
Because there's so many timeswhere we've taken them at face
value and we've wasted hours ofresources over something they
said they did but they actuallydo not, because they were
malicious and were lying to us.
They just didn't conceptuallyunderstand what it really meant
to restart the computer or tomake sure the monitors were
plugged in, because there's hdmiand there's a power cord also.
It's, it is okay, walk methrough what you did.
(51:11):
Let's show your work, and it'seven engineer to engineer.
Hey, I am escalating an issueto you right now.
Yeah, okay, show your work,because either you have enough
of a solid foundation for me towork off of and keep continuing
on, or if you have elements ofyour base that are broken, then
I have nothing to stand on.
Brad (51:31):
So sure you work, yeah yeah, did you plug the computer
in?
Yes, I plugged in the powerstrip.
Is the power strip on?
Yeah, there's a power stripplugged in okay, yeah I plugged
in the wall.
Okay, did you make sure thatthat circuit's on?
Does something else work inthat plugin?
Dave (51:50):
Okay, so I have.
It happened yesterday with meand my dad.
I did a bunch of stuff at hishouse for him, um, and he called
me and he's like I don't thinkyour network's working here.
I'm like well, what do you mean?
He's like I can't get the TV toturn on, so the network's bad,
(52:12):
okay.
Well, let me let me look atyour network real fast.
And I pulled up on my phone,cause there's a, there's an app
that does it, for I mean I cansee what is and isn't connected.
And I'm like uh, it shows yoursmart controller.
It's called savant, says it'soffline.
So why don't you go downstairsand look at that?
Computer goes downstairs Yep,no green light.
Okay, why don't you unplug it?
Plug it back in Still no greenlight.
Okay, what's it plugged intopower strip?
(52:33):
Okay, is the power stripplugged in?
Is it showing green?
Yep, okay.
Now pull the cord out of thepower strip and put it into a
different one.
Oh, yeah, it's turning on.
Okay, you've bad power strip,right?
He's like oh well, that's great, it works now.
Brad (52:46):
Yeah.
Dave (52:47):
But guess what?
It wasn't the network, it wasyour power strips broken, which
has nothing to do with thenetwork.
So that's a reminder.
Actually, I need to buy him anew power strip.
Brad (52:57):
So so there there's that idea of, of can you constantly
question.
I mean essentially, that's whatphilosophy is right it is.
Dave (53:07):
It's constantly questioning, but there are.
I've seen this from peoplebefore.
Well, how do?
What is the very foundation ofit all, and what can and can't
we trust?
And if that means nothing, thenmy mind is constantly spiraling
and I have nothing to attach myhopes, dreams and reasons to.
Brad (53:23):
And it's we will get there at some episode.
The fact is even even the few.
Dave (53:31):
What is being?
Brad (53:32):
who, even the few people that have read heidegger and and
want to ask that question.
They don't live their life likethat you can't it.
It's really not efficient, noway to live your life, no right.
So it's, but there are.
So, when you get down to it,are you going to make
(53:55):
assumptions and presuppositions?
Have to, yes, you have to, butwhy?
Because we don't fucking knoweverything it's very low level.
Dave (54:03):
You're making very low level assumptions.
You're not that allow you tobuild a base that is stable,
because those low levelassumptions aren't going to get
ripped away.
Brad (54:13):
But if you make some very high level assumptions, those
have the ability to get rippedaway and shake your world, and
we're talking about assumptions,like I believe, because I
perceive everything that isaround me and that I can leave
and come back and close my eyesand open my eyes and and all of
these things, that this is myreality, yes, that I choose to
(54:37):
believe that I am not in asimulation.
Well, how do you know you'renot in a simulation?
Dave (54:41):
I don't, I don't, I can't, I cannot prove currently that.
Brad (54:43):
I'm not in a simulation Right, but I, I don't, I can't,
I cannot prove currently thatI'm not in a simulation Right,
but I, I choose to believe that.
Okay, because all of theinformation that is given to me
leads me to believe that this isreal.
Dave (54:56):
What, what what's the flip side?
Oh, I believe I'm in asimulation.
What does it change?
It doesn't change anythingbesides the fact that you're
stuck here.
Um yeah, what are are you gonnado about it?
How are you gonna get yourselfout?
Find?
Brad (55:10):
morpheus, yeah, morpheus, I just, I just need to.
I just need to get on dos.
I just need to get on ms dos inthe middle of the night and
play techno music and I'll befine, he will come.
Dave (55:26):
For me.
Morpheus is like a really badaesthetics company hardware
piece.
Yeah, I think, actually.
I think it is actually a laser.
Brad (55:34):
I feel like morpheus is probably a lot of bad things.
Yeah, based off of that movie.
Yeah, so in that sense, uh, thesocrates is very famous line,
uh, which is that there's nomeaning in living in the
darkness, like the prisonersthat are chained to the wall.
There's no meaning to theirlife, whether they live or die,
(55:54):
or nothing changes in the worldoutside of them.
And so his saying is theunexamined life is not worth
living.
Why?
Because you're just watchingthe wall.
That's what you're doing.
You're not actively engaging,so you're not actively poking,
prodding, have effect on, on thethings that are around you.
(56:15):
In order to do that, you needto gain some new perspectives
and question things right, andthat the last kind of piece is,
if you do go on that journey andI think there, I think there
will be some people going onthis journey I know one of our
listeners that text me and saidhey, I'm buying philosophy books
(56:36):
.
What should I get?
I was like fucking everything.
I go.
Where are you?
And she goes books a million.
And I was like buy all thefucking Bibles I had to go past.
There's nothing else there.
Dave (56:45):
I had to go by.
I had to go past.
There's nothing else there.
I had to go by.
I had to go by 11 racks to getto this section.
Brad (56:54):
It's a little dusty.
It's in the back I wasn't Idon't think the light bulbs work
back here but that there's some.
There's some good shit outthere.
There's tons of boring stufftoo, you know it's not all super
exciting, but there areexciting ways to think about it.
Um, but just know that as yougo on that journey and this
isn't just philosophy related,but anything knowledge-based
which is philosophy-based themore you learn and the more you
(57:19):
challenge other people, the morethey're probably not going to
like you.
So going against the status quois not comfortable.
You're brave of going to likeyou.
So going against the status quouh it's.
It's not comfortable.
Dave (57:29):
You're brave of the wilderness, yes.
Brad (57:30):
So, if you find yourself going down that road, go back
and listen to the braving, thewilderness episodes, because
that's where you're going tofind yourself.
Uh, but so so it is.
Can you have the courage tojourney towards enlightenment,
even if it means distancingyourself from the ones that you
love, the people that younormally surround yourself with?
Right, and I guess if theyreally love you, then they're
(57:52):
gonna be accepting of thatjourney, would, hopefully, would
be the thing.
But there's plenty of instances, especially when we're younger
and by younger I mean collegeand past that really where you
surround yourself with peopleand as soon as you start kind of
breaking out of the status quo,of what the normal conditions,
are.
Yeah, yeah, suddenly, suddenlywe don't seem so tight anymore
(58:15):
by yeah, so just know thatthat's, that's a real
possibility, so it's okay, thathappens.
Dave (58:24):
It happens all the time You'll find people.
Unless you're in a really smalltown in the middle of wyoming,
you'll still find people.
And that's not a knock against.
Wyoming happen like wyoming.
Brad (58:33):
It's just a remote place, it's just hard to yeah, we, we
like these homogenous neat, or?
Zones right, neat, orderlyboxes, and so we kind of all
just kind of mold ourselves intothese a little bit.
Sometimes we're faking it andjust so we don't kind of disrupt
that.
But if you really want to startgetting down to things, you're
(58:55):
gonna have to disrupt that.
You're gonna have to stand upto somebody that's like vaccines
are not a real thing.
You're like well okay, I thinkthere's a little bit of science
behind some of that so, yeah,let's, let's talk about
eradicating polio, so lettingthat back in.
So that's good job, guys but,but there are these things where
and, and that's that's a,that's like a reversal.
(59:17):
I I find that some of thearguments that we're in today
are not so much, uh, becausepeople are moving forward too
much, it's because people aregoing backwards too much.
Not so much because people aremoving forward too much, it's
because people are goingbackwards too much, and and
you're having to like, fightthat same fight all over again.
But the same can be true.
And the the ones that I thinkof are is it?
He's on?
He's been on Rogan a ton oftimes.
(59:38):
He's got a thing on Netflix,it's Graham Hancock, and so all
of the ancient civilizationsthings like that.
And a lot of the ways that hethinks about things and actually
how far civilizations have goneback and what kind of
intelligence they had.
They talk about the dark agesfor a reason and what.
Dave (59:57):
I mean like what Europe was post Roman empire was wild
yeah, I mean just prior to priorto that prior to like Egypt,
egypt.
Brad (01:00:08):
You know, like you're talking, 10 000 years ago there
was probably there, he thinks, acivilization at least as
advanced as egypt.
And 30 years ago, I mean stilltoday he's.
He's shunned by a lot of people, but 30 years ago he was like a
leper.
You know, get out of here.
(01:00:29):
You have no business being here.
And the more and more knowledgethat comes out it raises a lot.
I mean maybe not so much answers, but a lot more questions where
it's like, well, yeah, thatdoes kind of make sense.
And also, where are all thesignificant answers for the
questions that he's asking thateverybody seems to previously
have known the answers to?
(01:00:49):
So are you gonna face some,some struggles?
Yeah you are.
Dave (01:00:56):
You're not gonna learn comfortably yeah, learning's not
usually comfortable no so, andif it's fun you're doing it
wrong.
Usually comfortable no so, andif it's fun you're doing it
wrong no no, no, yes, maybesometimes, I don't know learning
can be fun.
Yeah, it is, but it's okay.
I mean you have to understandthat your head's gonna go
(01:01:17):
through.
You're gonna bash your head ina couple times, like if you're
just constantly making progresswithout some interruption, you
might not be doing it right.
Brad (01:01:25):
Well, if, if something is easy, you're typically not
learning, you need stressors.
Yes, if you're doing somethingand it's easy, you kind of
already know how to do it.
Does that make sense?
It does.
You know what I would love what?
I would love someone to ask aquestion about this episode.
Dave (01:01:44):
Who me?
No, oh, anybody.
There's nobody here to mean youoh, I mean later.
Oh, not right put it in thecomments, guys like.
Subscribe all the fun shit.
Share it with your friends,please.
Brad (01:01:59):
Yeah, that'd be cool, do that sure, sure, you guys have
friends right yeah, hey, youmight not after you listen to
this.
Dave (01:02:07):
You too, you got friends.
Share it all.
Right, um any.
Any last thoughts before wewrap this up, besides the
comments, um, tiny hands no, I'mabout to drink a lot.
Brad (01:02:20):
Get into a hot takes episode, love it all right
thanks guys, see you guys later.
Dave (01:02:24):
Bye, you're still here it's over go home go.
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