We Try To Make Our Worlds Smaller And Accidentally Expose Why We Keep Making Them Bigger

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A ten-year-old watches a Pearl Harbor montage and nails the logic of escalation better than most headlines—and that sparks a bigger conversation about cycles we can’t stop, stress we secretly crave, and the way small choices turn into big messes. We jump from history to heirlooms to the uneasy market for forbidden artifacts, and why some collectors quietly buy propaganda just to burn it. That leads to a different kind of pilgrimage: retracing family wartime routes as a way to turn grief into grit.

From there, culture crashes the party. We decode why the Jon Hamm edits hit so hard, how a single meme can bottle the feeling of being alone in a packed club, and what’s behind the weird generations-on-the-dance-floor divide. Fred again gets a shout for bringing bodies back to dance music, along with an honest look at what it takes to stay up for midnight sets without borrowing from tomorrow. The throughline is attention—how we spend it, how we waste it, and how to reclaim it.

We also dismantle the romance of entrepreneurship. Freedom rarely shows up on a P&L, and content creators earn every anxious refresh. Pricing a $20k table becomes a lesson in hours, overhead, and invisible tools no one wants to pay for. So we set a rule that actually helps: finish three open tasks before you say yes to one new thing. It’s a practical way to beat self-sabotage, dodge “must be nice,” and make your world smaller on purpose. We even pitch a theory: Good Will Hunting as an AI parable—information without experience is brittle—and use it to push back on isolation, AI therapy fantasies, and screens stacked on screens. If you’ve been juggling too much and feeling less, this conversation offers a lighter pack and a clearer path.

If the episode resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs to hear “finish three before one,” and leave a review with your best trick for making life smaller and better.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_05 (00:00):
This is the Terribly Unoblivious Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 (00:03):
Yep.
I said it before and I'll say itagain.
Life moves pretty fast.
You don't stop and look aroundonce in a while.
You could miss it.

SPEAKER_05 (00:20):
Alright, we're doing it live.
Hi guys.
What were you saving for theshow?
Welcome back.

SPEAKER_04 (00:28):
Good to be here.
I love how much you hate thisthing.
This Christmas morning.
Ooh, that would be fun.
What?
Christmas morning podcast.
Uh if I'm here.

SPEAKER_05 (00:39):
Oh, I know you're not here.

SPEAKER_04 (00:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (00:41):
Uh maybe we could do it remotely, but I know we
can't.
There's a good chance I'm gonnabe in Europe.

SPEAKER_04 (00:46):
Is there?

SPEAKER_05 (00:46):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 (00:47):
I thought you weren't going.

SPEAKER_05 (00:49):
I'm not going to London.

SPEAKER_04 (00:50):
Oh.

SPEAKER_05 (00:51):
But I might go to Zerk.

SPEAKER_04 (00:52):
There's more to Europe than London.

SPEAKER_05 (00:56):
It depends on which country you're talking about.
As to if you'll be there or not?
No.
If they actually exist ormatter.
I see.
Also, it I heard a crazy storythe other day.
My co-worker has um his sisteror his cousin married a German

(01:16):
fellow and now maybe a littlepropaganda, uh maybe got
involved in a little bit ofpropaganda spreading that you
know Nazis are okay.
She's like a full-on Nazi now.
He's like, Yeah, I haven'ttalked to her since like high
school.
Are they in Germany?
I don't think so.
I think they're I don't think soeither, because they're not real
keen on it over there.

(01:38):
No, but she he's like, Yeah, shebrought this German guy around
one time and then we just neversaw her again.

SPEAKER_04 (01:42):
They're less keen on it than we are at this point.
I know.
Yeah.
Uh I would dare say.

SPEAKER_05 (01:50):
So I thought that was an interesting thing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:51):
I mean, I think I think maybe we're only second
behind Argentina at this point.
Fighting words.

SPEAKER_05 (01:58):
What about Italy?
Uh no, they they kind of gotfucked up by the whole Axis
analyses thing.

SPEAKER_07 (02:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:08):
This is not where I wanted to go with this.
Okay, but not fascism, but nowthat we're here, we're gonna
have to take a deep dive uh in ain an unlikely turn of events.
Uh me and Corbin were talkingabout this at bedtime the other
night.
Why were you talking about I uhwhat were you talking about?
I'm trying fascism.
No, I'm trying to rememberauthorit authoritative.

(02:32):
He was kind of talking aboutyeah, it probably would have
been about a week ago.
And so I'm sure they weretalking about Pearl Harbor
because it would have beenaround around the date.

SPEAKER_05 (02:40):
Is this the first year that none of the sur none
of the living survivors couldmake it?
I think so.
There's only a couple left.
Yeah, all three are eitherreally sick or immobile, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (02:48):
Um, and so he was he might have been watching a video
or something on it just onYouTube before he went to bed.
And and he's like, is this whatit was like?
And it was a mashup of footageand gameplay and movies and you
know, the Pearl Harbor movies.
I was gonna say it was MattDamon in it.
Not Matt Damon.
Was it Matt Damon?
No, it was Ben Affleck and uh ohyeah.

(03:09):
It was Ben Affleck and uh Oh,what's that?

SPEAKER_05 (03:12):
Josh Hartnett.

SPEAKER_04 (03:13):
Josh Hartnett, yeah.
And he said something along thelines of uh I go, yeah, it was
really bad.
I was like, we we werepurposefully not getting engaged
in the war, the war had beengoing on for a couple years
already.
And America just had kind ofplanned on staying out of it,

(03:35):
and Japan was like, hey, youguys are weak, we're gonna bomb
you and take all this land.
And he goes, Yeah, uh you know,when you basically like when you
hurt somebody you think they'regonna like back off, but all it
does is make them want to hurtyou more.
And I was like, Yes, yes, thisis the endless cycle of war that

(03:56):
now a 10-year-old realizes.
Yeah, and governments fail to.
And yeah.
I was like, there's not a goodsolution for it.
Uh there's a there's a reallybad solution for it.

SPEAKER_05 (04:12):
I think one of the problems though is you you see
this and perceive and I'mwatching The Diplomat season
three right now, but I don'tknow if you've seen that show on
Netflix, but it's fantastic.
But it is, it's there's thesemicro incidences and micro what
appear to be innocent, butthey're like, that's an
aggressive we have to retaliate.

(04:32):
And it's like, why?
They're like, Well, we don'tcare really, but our people that
vote for us care and they'reemotional, and if we're
perceived as weak, they willkick us out.
Yeah, and so it is this um, it'shard because you have to speak
to the emotional masses and notthe intellectual masses, and
well, there's no such thing asintellectual masses.

SPEAKER_04 (04:51):
I mean the invasion of Poland or the assassination
of the Ark Ferdinand, no, uh thewhich was which was botched by
the way.

SPEAKER_05 (04:59):
Oh, yeah, I still yeah, that Dan is that Dan
Carlin?
Yeah, yeah, hardcore history.
Go check that out.

SPEAKER_04 (05:04):
The Gulf of Tonkin incident.
We don't talk about Tonkin here.
Okay.
That's the it's too close stuff.
Stealing a Venezuelan oiltanker.
I mean, it was a good time.
It just but to to your point,like that comes across the
headline, I think this pastweek.
Like US seizes Venezuelan oiltanker.

(05:25):
Like, fucking here we go.
Yeah.
Any one of these could be thekickoff for some fucking dumb
thing.
Yeah.
Just because people want to Iwish Lou was here.

SPEAKER_05 (05:36):
He'd go into a big big diatribe about how the
industrial complex needs war tokeep churning, and it's how you
avoid a depression.
I mean, it's how you'd avoid uhavoid financial recessions.
You just keep the industryrunning.
Okay.
So where did you want to go withthis when you first started and
not I didn't want to.
I just thought it was wild thatyou know a kid's able to figure

(06:00):
that out.

SPEAKER_04 (06:02):
Kids are pretty smart.

SPEAKER_05 (06:03):
The problem is we educate them and then they get
dumb.

SPEAKER_04 (06:05):
Uh and other people aren't.
They're just like, uh, they'renot on our side, we're gonna
kill them all.
Like, well, you're not gonnakill all of them, and then we've
talked about that.
The ones that you don't kill aregonna come back.

SPEAKER_06 (06:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (06:17):
Well, and that's you know, there's countless stories,
you know, the guys have overseasand they're like, Yeah, I just
killed somebody's dad or uncle,and their kids are back in the
house and they see us and theysee the US flag on our uniform,
and like you just createdanother hate-filled monster.

SPEAKER_07 (06:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (06:31):
Uh yeah, at some point it like maybe it starts as
a cultural thing or a religiousthing, or uh you know, these are
my specific beliefs.
But it only takes one bigincident to turn into this is
now just retribution for therest of our lives.

SPEAKER_05 (06:51):
Yeah, they that's it.
There is no what is what is thepoint?
There is no point.

SPEAKER_04 (06:55):
It's just it's kind of like that one thing where
it's like it doesn't reallymatter what the war is for when
somebody starts shooting at you.
No.
And that's yeah.
So yeah, that was uh that wasour bedtime story together.

SPEAKER_05 (07:09):
A little different than reading the Mountain
Gazette to a man.
Jesus.
Not really, man.
Some of those are pretty weirdtoo.
Yeah.
I was just I was uh I was justremembering because well, I get
ads for it all the time.
I should probably just buy thegoddamn thing um and support
them.
But I was thinking about the uhthe guy that re that his

(07:30):
grandparents that escaped fromAuschwitz or one of the in
concentration camps, and they reredid the trek.
Yeah, that was I was justthinking about that, how
fascinating that would be.
And that'd be really emotionalthough.
Like that's your lineage.
It'd be pretty wild.
Because it's you're gonna dosomething.
I think I get emotional when Ido something incredibly

(07:53):
physically demanding that's overa long period of time at the
end, like, or I guess any taskin life, like I've worked really
hard to do this and we'veaccomplished it.
So I think but so you're gonnago do something physically
challenging on its own, and nowyou're gonna add that familiar
uh aspect to it.
We could do that, like howemotional that would have to be
at the end.
We could do that with mygrandpa's journey.

SPEAKER_04 (08:15):
That's right.
He he was shot down in Germany,yeah.
And then walked his way back toFrance.
Yeah, I'm in.

SPEAKER_07 (08:23):
Yeah, okay, let's do it.

SPEAKER_04 (08:25):
Um but you're carrying your own microphone.
What if we set it up like uh weskydive out?
How about we do that?
Okay, yeah.
That's that's good.
Okay, that's good.
But then we set it up likeTropic Thunder so it feels more
realistic.
Okay.
We just hire people.
We just hire people to gorilla.
Yeah.
We're gonna need a biggerbudget.

SPEAKER_05 (08:46):
Uh 2026 needs a bigger budget.

SPEAKER_04 (08:49):
We're gonna need some German fighter planes.
Uh the flying Red Bulls.
Hey, maybe that person at yourwork, maybe they can get us in
touch with somebody that hassome uniforms or something.

SPEAKER_05 (08:59):
He's lost touch.
Do you know who actually has aton of do you know who has a ton
of Nazi uh stuff come through?
It's Rock Island Auction Companybecause they got memorabilia.
Oh, but there is there are ummajor uh Jewish uh groups and

(09:21):
rules.
I I don't know if they'renonprofit or what it is, but
there are major um buyers, andthey go and they buy up as much
Nazi propaganda and oldartifacts as they can and they
destroy it.
What was uh and I never eventhought about that, but I'm
like, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 (09:37):
Like you don't want that to I mean Okay, so this was
probably a TV show, and I can'tremember what TV show it was, I
want to say it was like BurnNotice or something else, and
that's what it was.
It was uh this guy that was anart collector and did these kind
of things, and and somebodyfound out that he was collecting

(10:00):
all of these Hitler paintings,and they're like they thought he
was like the next you know, uhbig big thing to come out.
Yeah.
And then he he goes, Let me showyou something, and he walks back
into this back room, like thisgated back room, and opens up
and it's just jars on shelves.

(10:22):
And then he starts talking aboutlike his family and how they
were in camps and then murderedand all stuff.
All of the jars were all of theHitler paintings that he had
acquired so far and burned, theywere just the ashes in the jars,
and he just kept all of them.
That's crazy.

SPEAKER_05 (10:36):
Uh so yeah, there's well, same thing though.
The there was three watercolorsfrom they they had they came
into possession, the the auctioncompany.
They had three Adolf Hitler umwatercolors come through.
I he has a ton of art, and it'sit's not that hard to get your
hands on it, actually.

(10:57):
I've learned through um my buddythat works there.
But yeah, there's a lot of um alot of Hitler art out there, and
it doesn't go for as much as youthink it would, by the way.
Yeah, like maybe five to twelvethousand dollars for some of
these things, which seemedincredibly low to me.
Not that it should be moreexpensive from uh but there are

(11:18):
people out there you would thatwould pay money for stuff like
that.

SPEAKER_04 (11:22):
So I was just looking this thing up because I
found it on our uh secretarydesk the other day.
And uh I I don't even rememberwhere all of this stuff comes
from because I have random likemedals and coins and things like
that, and some of them for wereprobably from my grandpa, some

(11:42):
of them were from I think mymom's grandpa from World War
One.

SPEAKER_05 (11:47):
Please tell me that like there's gonna be like a
celestial event, and you're oneof the coins is gonna wake up
and we're gonna have TombRaider.
We're gonna like Tomb Raider?
Is it gonna be like Tomb Raider?

SPEAKER_04 (11:58):
But I was trying to figure out if they were I I
think they were the US militarymark, like one of them was a
marksman one because it has ait's it looks like this where it
has like the kind of an ironcross looking thing, uh-huh.
But then like the the wreaththing around it, and then the
one I have is carbine and andmachine gun.

SPEAKER_07 (12:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (12:19):
So that's like what you were efficient in or
proficient, proficient, maybeefficient too.

SPEAKER_05 (12:27):
That reminds me of propofol when she gets a
propofol.
She'd do a propofol episode.
Um my milk doctor give me mymilk.

SPEAKER_04 (12:33):
Okay, so this is the okay, so this is what we really
want to talk about today is howmy wife is culturally unaware.
Okay, when it comes to trendingmemes.
Okay.
Yeah.
And that's it.
What about it?
So the the one most recently onTikTok has been the John Hamm
and it's a it's a scene from Ithink it's Friends and

(12:55):
Neighbors, is the show.

SPEAKER_05 (12:56):
Yeah, that's the one where he like is living, like
he's basically a whole keepingup with the Joneses, and then
finally kind of sheds his skinand just starts to learn to live
life.

SPEAKER_04 (13:03):
So I haven't watched it, but it's the meme is is
basically him in a rave or adance, yeah, something whatever,
and there's lights going andthere's some music.
And it's funny because I'vewatched like seven of those
today, by the way.
There was fucking hilariousones.
And the and the song that theyhave overlaid isn't the actual
song that's in the in the TVshow when he's in this club or

(13:26):
whatever.
But the essence of it is uhespecially like millennial or
younger Gen X, when they relateto this club experience of like
you might be packed in thisplace, but this music just hits,
and you're in this, and all of asudden you're just alone and

(13:47):
just kind of flying high.
So it's like this specificfeeling.
And so now the memes are they'llsay something like I saw a dog
one, and the and the dog waslike, When your parents don't
communicate, and so you get twodinners that night, yeah, and
then it cuts to John Hamm in theclub, and it's just this, you
know, this kind of etherealfeeling.

(14:07):
And so I'm I'm sending Shannonsome of these things.
One was like when your wifewalks in the bedroom and locks
the door, and then it cuts herto that.
That's who John Hamm one.
And she goes, I don't know whothis guy is.
She doesn't know who John Hammis.
I go, What do you mean you don'tknow who this guy is?
She's like Mad Men?
Don Draper?
Yeah, she's like, I don't he'sshe goes, I don't haven't
watched any of those shows.

SPEAKER_05 (14:28):
What about bridesmaids?
Like that seems like a such thatbecause he was the fuckboy in
that she doesn't watch movies.

SPEAKER_04 (14:32):
Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 (14:33):
That makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 (14:34):
But still, I'm like, but he's a cultural he's he's a
person actor, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (14:41):
Like he's he's famous.
I mean, he's a household name.

SPEAKER_04 (14:44):
After like Brad Pitt's face, it's gotta be John
Ham's face.

SPEAKER_05 (14:48):
Like so you know that John Ham doesn't wear he
hates underwear, and there's awebsite devoted to John Hamm's
dick where it's just likepeeking out of his pants.
Didn't know that.
Yep.

SPEAKER_04 (14:58):
There's nope.
Yep.
Uh John Hamm sausage.
It's something like got it?
Like it?
Yeah.
Okay.
I could name these websites.
I think.
Yeah.
So she didn't like mine.
She didn't she didn't like thisthing, she didn't understand the
trend.
She's like, I don't get it.
I was like, Well, how what's notto get about it?

(15:19):
It's something that makes youfeel really good, and then it
cuts to this, and this is howyou feel on the inside, you
know.
And so then we went out todinner last night, and her
friend Morgan, like me andMorgan, are on the same
wavelength.
Yeah.
Like all the same culturallittle ticks, and you know, the
the one-liners from movies, andand just like the shit that me
and you, you know, what are youdoing today?

(15:39):
Survive.
You know, you just say like aword, and you're like, Yeah,
okay, okay, I feel that.
And she goes, I am obsessed withthese John Hammett edits right
now.
And I'm like same, same.
I'm watching them all day.
And Shannon's just like, I don'tget it.
So then we we have dinner andwe're going through some of
these things, and then we pickPhoenix up from a party on the
way home.
And it's I I've got Kato on,which is the song that the

(16:02):
they're playing during that.
Yeah.
And it's just all of us takingturns saying something and then
starting the song over again andplaying it.
So she was really digging it bythe end of it.

SPEAKER_05 (16:13):
So um now she knows.
The my favorite one today waslike when you hit when you hit
peak responsible 30s orsomething, and the it was the
the guy basically recreated thescene from uh Final Destination
in the log drum.
He's right in front of him, andhe just like he closes his eyes
and it's like, just yep, get meout of here.
Yeah, I thought where it waslike he unbuckles his seatbelt

(16:34):
and just leans into it.

SPEAKER_04 (16:36):
Yeah, there's some uh and then I was so now I'm
like going through this in myhead of you know what are some
what are some ones that arefunny or like inappropriate or
gross or there's some reallygood ones.
Um I saw a teacher where theywere doing roll call and they're
like when that one kid isabsent.
Oh yeah, and I was like, Yeah, Iwas waiting for that one.

SPEAKER_05 (16:57):
That's uh that's up there.
Um so on the same on the samerespects of uh the dance floor,
I heard this last night thatthere's this disconnect in clubs
now in like DJ sets or danceclubs where you know they Gen
Xers and millennials.

(17:18):
What's the what is what'sunderneath the Xers now?
What's boomers?
No, who's the youngestgeneration right now?
Oh I I don't know if it's it'slike Y or Z.
I don't know.
But basically, people know whatgeneration you're from by if you
put your hands in the hair inthe air or not.
Yeah, so like old people nowlike dance and put their hands

(17:40):
in the air, and all the youngkids just sit there with their
arms at their side and kind ofjust stare around.

SPEAKER_04 (17:46):
Fucking no hands in the air, no lol motherfuckers.

SPEAKER_05 (17:50):
So it's crazy though.
The um one of these uh I'm a bigdance music guy, you're not so
much, but uh oh she didn't knowwhat EDM was either.
I know, yeah.
So EDM, electronic dance music.
Fred again is just beenabsolutely killing it this past
year.
He's this British DJ, uh startedas a producer, actually produced

(18:10):
a lot of very popular pop songsthat most people would know, but
um does his own stuff in theclubs uh after hours when he's
not classically producing.
Uh but his concerts are so wildbecause he brings so much
energy, he's dancing the likethe entire time too.
And he like um he likes to usedrum pads to like live mix, so

(18:30):
he's like he's just alwayscrushing it, and his concerts
are getting so wild, and it'slike people are actually dancing
at dance shows again, and it'sit's it's so much fun to watch
the energy that's coming out ofhim right now to the point where
I just got my name on the waitlist for four different shows in
London in February.
So I might be going to London inFebruary.
Oh, because he just did thistour called 10 10 10 shows or

(18:52):
something like that, which waslike one show a week in a
different in a differentcountry, in a different city.
I don't know if it was adifferent country, but it was
like all over, and uh he justsaid that it was so popular.
He's like, I'm gonna do 10 more,but he's gonna do like four in
he's gonna do it like aresidency style.
So I'm excited.
New York, London, and maybe oneother.
I don't know.
Yeah, the only problem I havewith that is staying up.

(19:14):
It is hard because I went to IDid we do these during the day?
I went to my first proper likeDJ set in a very like a like a
famous DJ set in a long, longtime.
I went to uh Chris Lake up inMinneapolis about a month ago,
and it's like doors open atnine, he doesn't go on till
midnight.
Fuck.
I've already been out fordinner, I've had a glass of

(19:35):
wine.
Like it is, it's hard.
You're just like, I don't wantto get you gotta take that 4
p.m.
Adderall.
That's see, that I am my bodydoesn't it.
That's not how it works for me.
Mine does a little bit.
Like sometimes I'll take noon.
If I take it supposed to, but Iwink wink, I can't say that on
the air.
I just did, but I can maybe if Idouble dose or well, I have the

(19:59):
experience.
Extended so it oh god that Idon't like it.
No, I don't like the ER.
Uh reminds me of E D.

SPEAKER_04 (20:07):
Hmm.
I'm not sure how.

SPEAKER_05 (20:10):
I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (20:11):
Because it has an E in it?
Yeah.
Okay.
Cool.
Yeah.
My EQ is very low.
Okay.
God.
So but yeah, I I will noticethat sometimes if I take a a
late one, that I just feel likeI want to be busy at 11 p.m.
So that's what I wanted to talkabout today.

SPEAKER_05 (20:30):
Is um I think you and I struggle with this.
Is how do you make your worldsmaller?
And I don't mean that in acultural aspect, I don't mean
that in an intelligence or youknow, way, but you and I have a
tendency to take on a lot, andit it's not a and they're not

(20:53):
always overlapping.
So we we have a broad variety ofresponsibilities and things we
like to do that make our livesliving hells at times, even
though we do the things weenjoy, it's still like fuck, I'm
stressed.
I've got so many things I'mdoing right now.

SPEAKER_04 (21:08):
I I do uh yeah.
Well, I I think I texted youyesterday and it was like, when
do house projects stop?
Yeah.
And my wife literally told me,she goes, they're never gonna
stop.
No, they won't.
And and it's not there's I partof that is like she's gonna want
stuff, and part of it is justlike that's me.

(21:30):
Yeah, I'm just gonna keep butlike this one's done.
I'm gonna I'm I've got time todo something else, even though I
may not have the time.

SPEAKER_05 (21:36):
I know, and that's what I'm saying.
And what I've I know myself nowwhere if I don't like I there
are a couple things in thishouse I can see right now, just
looking around, where I'm like,I would love to take care of
that.
But it doesn't bother me enoughwhere like I lose sleep over it
and I don't like obsess aboutit.
But I know the moment I startit, if I don't finish it, then

(22:00):
I'll start losing sleep andstress.
And it's like I just have tosay, no, it's not my problem,
it's not the most importantthing in my life.
So I think there is weoverestimate our abilities at
times.

SPEAKER_04 (22:12):
Um there was that, but now I'm realizing more
people say and a lot of times ithas to do with you know
woodworking or something.
Somebody'll see a project andthey'll be like, you could do
this.

SPEAKER_07 (22:29):
You could do this.
Yeah.
Like, yeah.
I could, but what why?

SPEAKER_04 (22:37):
Why?
Yeah.
That's that's like a whole newthing.
Yeah.
I mean I mean it goes back tothe uh uh the true detective
rust, you know?
Time life time is a flat circle.
No, it he says uh life's barelylong enough to get good at one
thing.
Be careful what you pick.

(22:57):
So it is that it just goes intothat like what do I want to
spend yeah, what do I want tospend my time on?

SPEAKER_05 (23:03):
And that's and that's the that was that stupid
ass this this book I was showingyou that I got, which is third
eye blind.
Third eye blind.
The life designer, yes.
Um, but it is, I don't thinkenough people spend time
actually thinking about whatthey want to do in this world or
where they want to be, and wejust kind of just get lost in
the day-to-day tasks, and thenwe kind of let life take us

(23:28):
wherever it's going.

SPEAKER_04 (23:30):
Somebody was just talking about this.
I saw a clip the other day of,and I can't remember what they
called it, but it was uh careersomething where they
intentionally it was like careerintentionality or something like
that, where they intentionallyget a job that pays the bills
and has some benefits and is notsomething that they're

(23:52):
passionate about, where theyclock in and clock out and don't
stress about after the fact orthink about it at home.
Yep, they just fucking go do itand do their nine to five or 40
hours or whatever it is, andthen come home and are fucking
energized about what theyactually want to do, you know,
and in the weekends and thingslike that.
And uh yeah, there's somethere's some back and forth you

(24:17):
could have about that because onthe flip side you have people
that start their own businessabout something they're
passionate about.
Yeah, you're like, oh man, itmust be nice to be a small
business owner and you just dowhatever you want to do.
And you're like, Yeah, it'sawesome.
I you know, I spend 70 hours aweek thinking about and doing
things that I get paid 30 hoursa week for.

SPEAKER_05 (24:38):
Yeah.
Well, and or you overwork it, oryou're whatever it is.
But and that's um, I was justlistening to this.
Oh, I haven't sent you thatpodcast yet.
Sorry, I was gonna send you thethe one with um that serial
entrepreneur uh and uh diamonds.
You make cereal?
Yes, yes, he makes serial.

SPEAKER_07 (24:56):
Uh S-E.
S-E-R-I-A-L.

SPEAKER_05 (25:02):
That's like a different kind of that's yeah.
I think that was a podcast once.
Um but he talks about the at theend, um the podcast host is
like, so what's the biggestmisconception, or what do you
want people to know about youknow, starting your own
business, being an entrepreneur?
And he goes, I want people toget the idea that freedom and

(25:26):
entrepreneurship go hand inhand.
He goes, You lose your freedom.
And he goes, but you get to pickwhat your life is, yeah.
But the idea that you get tojust go jet off to Italy or jet
off, and he's like, that's notreality because you're a you
know, if you scale it and yougrow it and you do it, sure, but
you're not an entrepreneur atthat point.

(25:47):
You're a business, you know.
He's like you when you when yougo from the small business and
you scale it, he's like, There'sdifferent phases of your life,
but if you're just going to dostartups, you're grinding.
You don't have the big staff,you don't have the big, you
know, equity.
It there are the big finance andtech companies out there that
look sexy, but that's the pointzero zero zero zero one percent.

(26:08):
The the everyday entrepreneur isHR, accounting, yeah, uh
operations, all that shitwrapped up in the one person.
And to your point, we you willwork 80 to 100 hours a week just
not to have to work 40 hours aweek for somebody else.
I mean, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_04 (26:25):
I mean, it's I see it on uh some of the the more
popular like woodworkingchannels.
Or there's a guy whose channel,I think he's actually up in
Canada, and it's it's not evenreally him making stuff, it's
just him setting up new toolsand outfitting his shop and

(26:48):
playing with this tool, and youknow, sometimes showing tool uh
uses and different things likethat.
And sometimes he does joinery,but he always has fucking
monster, yeah, you know, slidingtable saws and all these big
things, and people are like, Oh,it must be nice, you know, it
must be nice.
And everyone's like, How do youafford all this stuff?
He's like, not gonna work allthe time, yeah.

(27:10):
You know, and then now this is aside thing where obviously he's
getting a lot of traffic throughhis videos, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (27:16):
So he's getting people money from that also,
yeah, or people sending himtools and then yeah, and then
some of them are not all ofthem, but some of them are
certainly paid for subsidized orsomething.
And that's the that wholemust-be nice thing drives me
nuts too, because these contentcreators, I give them a lot
credit, yeah, because they doone, you have to put yourself

(27:37):
out there and because the thefucking internet is so mean.
Oh, okay.
You have to just you have to putyourself out there.
Two, it's that's how I don'tlike posting things, they're
constantly like you I've watchedsome of the behind-the-scenes
stuff with some of these people,and they're just like the amount
of anxiety we have for what ournext video is supposed to be
about, because you start runningout of ideas, and it's like, oh,

(27:59):
my my my follow like you know,YouTube has great analytics
because it's you know backed byGoogle, obviously, and there's
great data there for you as acreator if you want to utilize
it, and it's like they only wantvideos about this, yeah.
All the other videos I try to doover here, nobody's watching
those, and so it's like thatwhen you get pigeonholed, then
you've got to try to figure out,or you've got to just say, fuck

(28:21):
it.
I know you guys all want this,but I'm still gonna make what I
want and risk losing viewershipand other things, and it's like
yeah, it's it's uh and it's alsoas someone with uh problem
focusing sometimes, especiallyat a home shop where I got I go
back inside and then where do Iput my headphones at?

SPEAKER_04 (28:41):
Yeah, and where my glasses are at.
I lost my pencil for the 17thtime today, and then somebody's
somebody else, God forbid, ishome and comes out and asks
questions.

SPEAKER_05 (28:48):
That's why I refuse to work here.

SPEAKER_04 (28:50):
I mean, I'll work here after hours, but but then
imagine just trying to do thetask, but then having to set up
and record and do all thedifferent, you know, at you in
and you promise your viewershipI'm a Monday and Friday poster
or I'm a Tuesday poster.

SPEAKER_05 (29:04):
I always release content on these days our
Saturday morning at 8 p.m.

SPEAKER_04 (29:07):
And again, there's things that get better and more
efficient the more you do it.
So they're like, Yeah, you'repumping out a lot of videos now.

SPEAKER_05 (29:16):
But it probably took a lot of hours.
Well, even this and this littleyeah, this little vacuum bag of
our little podcast that fourpeople listen to.
Uh my first three podcastepisodes took fucking half day
to edit.
Yeah, because I was like, Idon't know the tools, I don't
know, whatever.
And now when you leave, I canbang this out in like 15 minutes

(29:38):
and get it up and posted.

SPEAKER_04 (29:40):
But to that, to that point, like the freedom of you
get to be maybe you get to becreative, or like for me, I get
to spend more time with my kidsright now than I do having to
work because I just make thatchoice.
But I saw, or it could be a guythat's uh somebody was doing uh

(30:01):
it was like gold flake and handpainting and striping, and it
was like on a big mirror typething.
Oh, I saw that same video.
Um goddamn, our algorithms arethe same, aren't they?
And so somebody had sent me thatand I was watching that, but or
like some of the the tables thatwatch, and he's like, I'm gonna
sell this for twenty thousanddollars.
And everyone's like, twentythousand dollars for a fucking
table.
And then I'm like, okay, so he'sgot 400 hours in it.

(30:23):
That's fifty dollars an hour.
Yeah.
You know who makes fifty dollarsan hour?

SPEAKER_05 (30:27):
Like a bunch of people that don't have what$50
an hour is like don't have manyskills.
Yeah,$50$50 an hour is justunder$100,000 a year.

SPEAKER_04 (30:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (30:37):
Something like that.
Mid 90s to one, yeah, somewherein there.

SPEAKER_04 (30:40):
And and you're talking about people that are
making very high-end products.

SPEAKER_05 (30:46):
And you think, I mean, a full so a full-time so
you're making$50, but that's twothousand two two thousand eighty
hours is about a full-timeequivalent hour-wise of what a
40-hour employee year will work.
So you think you you kind ofextrapolate that out.
40, you know, 400 hours spent ona table, they've used almost a
quarter of their working, youknow, if they're working a true

(31:08):
40 right now, they might workmore because they are, you know,
artists or entrepreneurs, butyou think about you're like, you
know, a quarter of my year wentinto that.
So yeah, I'd I need to make atleast 20 on this because you
know that's a lot, that's a lotof time.
Yeah.
And that's you're not, you know,and the overhead that goes into
but that's the thing, is you'rejust looking at the time
perspective.

(31:28):
You're not even looking at theexpenses.
No, looking at everything elsethat they have.

SPEAKER_04 (31:32):
Well, can't be that expensive.
It's like, well, he does have aforklift to be able to pick this
thing up.
Do you have a forklift?

SPEAKER_05 (31:38):
I want one.
Like, I always I've been talkingabout I've been talking to my
brother about it and we were atthe shop.
I'm like, when are we getting ascissor lift out here?

SPEAKER_04 (31:45):
There's some of the there's just some of those
things where like, oh, this isthis would be really nice to
have.

SPEAKER_05 (31:52):
But you gotta scale immediately.
Yeah, because you I mean, youthink about traditional
financing, you know, you buy afifty thousand dollar.
I don't know, I don't even knowwhat forklifts cost.
I'm assuming fifty in the fifth.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 (32:05):
Oh, I I mean a I don't know what a new one costs.
But you could get one thatdoesn't work for probably two
grand.

SPEAKER_05 (32:10):
Uh what's uh I'm gonna check.

SPEAKER_04 (32:13):
But then at that point, it's just a fork.
What does a forklift cost?

SPEAKER_05 (32:19):
Um maybe that's the first vehicle we should get as a
podcast is a forklift.
If you're gonna for modern forfor most standard warehouse
models.

SPEAKER_04 (32:34):
Okay.
If you're gonna pick people up,you might need help.
Get a forklift.
Oh.
Make that a t-shirt.
Okay, yeah, write that down.
Yeah, certified forklift pickerupper.
Certified forklift picker upper.
No, but then so you know.
That's a lot, and then you gottalike I couldn't buy a forklift
because I don't have a place topark a fucking forklift.

(32:56):
So then you gotta have a place,and then you have to have the
right terrain.
You trust me.
Yeah, so you can't just drive aforklift wherever you want to.

SPEAKER_05 (33:04):
So you gotta call the concrete guy, make sure you
got the right concrete.
And guess what?
Is it is it thick enough?

SPEAKER_04 (33:08):
Do you have a bump here?
It is because that's not good.
Yeah, you can't do that.
Mm-mm.

SPEAKER_05 (33:14):
No, these things are top heavy.

SPEAKER_04 (33:16):
They're they don't, yeah.
They're heavy everywhere.
I know it's uh yeah.
I used to run my uh my uncle hadan old propane one uh in his
shop out there, and we would hemade some steel extenders to put
on the fork so we could justpick cars up.
So, like all the old cars thatwere sitting around, like all of

(33:36):
them were immobile, so you justsit under there, scoop them up
and pick them up and move themaround.
But he had lips coming out ofthe shop, and the whole parking
lot was like a blacktop graveltype.
So you're always getting stuck,you couldn't move anywhere,
you're like, god damn it.

SPEAKER_05 (33:54):
So it was a little difficult.
But going back to theintentional careers, I think
that's kind of where I wasgetting at is I I've kind of put
this new rule on myself, whichis I have before I'm allowed to
say yes to a new task, that'snot like my off, like that's not
like a daily like office thing,I have to finish three tasks.

(34:18):
So I've got like all thesethings in my head that I want to
get accomplished.
Yeah, and it's like from apersonal standpoint.
I like that.
And then I just noticed that,like, and that's the thing.
I think my my to-do lists weregetting so big, but there's no
prioritization around it.
And your brain, when it justlooks at that or it knows that
there's this big thing that'ssitting out there, you feel like
you're about to go climb Everestand you're thinking about

(34:39):
getting to the top before youeven take that first.
And so it's just overwhelmingbecause it feels, and then you
just start crossing, you'relike, this actually isn't
important, and then you justfeel like a weight.
You know what?

SPEAKER_04 (34:48):
Um part of my mental processing problem is I think
with jobs, uh what the and hasbeen.
You think about the glory at theend?
No, I don't think about the end.
Oh, that's a problem.
Yeah, my brother has thatproblem.
I think about all the funduring.
No, no, not that either.

(35:09):
I think I think in not fullycompleting something, in the
back of your mind, you alwayshave something to do.
And so I I I feel uh somehowfeel that need to always have
something to do.

SPEAKER_05 (35:23):
You don't like going to your default mode network.
Okay.
That just means being okay withyourself.
Uh maybe.
Well, I I I've got plenty ofjournals and data to prove that
you don't like being withyourself.

SPEAKER_04 (35:36):
I mean uh plan all the time.
Uh no.
It is yeah, but that's that's athing.
That's that that's a thing thatmakes sense to me now.
Like as I come upon a completionof something, uh yeah, it just

(35:58):
feels like it it does feel goodto close that, but then on the
other hand, but what there's afalse there's a false sense of
security in having thatsomething to do, which isn't
really a security at all.
No, I know it's not it's an opensynapse, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (36:15):
So you're addicted to stress.
This is fun.

SPEAKER_04 (36:17):
I like this episode.
Uh yeah, it could be.

SPEAKER_05 (36:20):
No, it is.
It's not could be, it is.
There ain't that ain't no guess.
It's like the water boy is like,yes, that ain't no guess.

SPEAKER_04 (36:29):
Is that why my watch always says it has like the body
battery thing on it?
Oh god, it's always run down.
It's always like 20.
Yeah, probably they're like, youneed to sleep more.
And I was like, bitch, I sleptnine hours last night.

SPEAKER_05 (36:38):
It it it it really open is this thing working?
The open synapses, and it'sthat's where I've just I've I've
learned in the past few monthswhere I just have to say no to
shit.
And it's like, yeah, that'd bereally fun, and I think I'd
probably be really good at it,and it would probably be you
know entertaining, but yeah,it's not at the expense of
everything else in my lifethat's important, and I've

(36:59):
really kind of shed a lot ofancillary things that were fun,
but my then that's the problem.
You go to work and you'restressed, and like I love my
job, I love going into my job, Ilove and that's when I kind of
knew shit was going wrong, iswhen I'm like at my office
fucking hating my life, notbecause I didn't enjoy what I
was doing or the people I workedwith, it was just I was the body
battery, my battery was deadbecause I just felt like there

(37:22):
was a thousand things around methat were not being done, and
it's like actually those thingsaren't important, but you
started it and now you feel likeyou're not if you don't finish
it, you're a failure, andthere's all that other that
goes.
So it's like just you don't youknow it's not that important,
you gotta prioritize.
You only you your point, it'smore important to say no to
things than it is to say yesthings, two things, and then in
the same respect, what are thethree things I want to get good

(37:45):
at before I die?
Or what do I want to be becauseyou only have so much.

SPEAKER_04 (37:48):
It's funny because it is like for me, it's a uh
another version ofself-sabotage, which is a fun
little habit that I've had inthe course of my life.
Yeah, well, you're addicted, andyou're addicted to the dopamine
hit, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 (38:02):
I am too.

SPEAKER_04 (38:03):
It's great.
I know.
Um, and I didn't yeah.
It was something I kind ofrealized early on.
Like, why would I why would Ikeep doing this to myself?
Like, why would I put somethingoff and then have to go through
the frustration and stress oftelling somebody like I don't
have this done.
Whether it was school or work orfamily or whatever, and and

(38:28):
knowing full well like I gottado it, it's not that hard, but
and still you push it.
And it's it's that hit of thatpure uh like frustration and
embarrassment and guilt and allthose feelings when that comes
to a head, yeah, that you don'tlike, but that is definitely a

(38:54):
some sort of chemical reactionin your body.

SPEAKER_07 (38:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (38:59):
So I guess if you're addicted to heroin, you know,
the person's like, I don'treally like heroin.
It's not good for you.
It's not, it's not but butthere's this feeling that my
body seems to crave.
And that's what I was like, ohokay.
Well this is no different thantaking drugs.

(39:23):
Yeah, it's less concentrated,but the chemicals and and
hormones that are being releasedduring whatever action that
you're doing, it's still achemical dependency.

SPEAKER_05 (39:34):
Yeah.
I think I the uh that thatentrepreneur on that episode had
a really good kind of litmustest for some like he's he he's
like, I get excited about shitall the time.
And I think that's I'll go backto that in a second.
I think what uh uh one of thethoughts I had earlier was and
you were just saying what you'resaying was that I think one of

(39:55):
our problems is we're bothreally creative people and we
both are decent.
Solve problem solving, solvingproblems.
Yeah, and really good dancers.
Uh fantastic dancers, worldclass.
Yeah.
Um, Jennifer Lopez, next timeyou go on tour, please let me be
a backup dancer because I heardshe has a proclivity for
sleeping with them.
What?
Who would have thought?
Although I don't know if I couldcompare to Ben.

(40:18):
I think I don't know.
He was Batman.
Was he?
Ben Affleck was Batman.

SPEAKER_04 (40:23):
Yeah, but all you gotta do, all you gotta say is.
You know how fucking easy thisis?
That's true.

SPEAKER_03 (40:30):
Do you know how easy this is for me?
Do you have any fucking idea howeasy this is?
This is a fucking joke.

SPEAKER_05 (40:35):
I love this.

SPEAKER_03 (40:35):
And I'm sorry you can't do this.
I really am because I wouldn'thave to do it.
It just never gonna get old.

SPEAKER_05 (40:40):
It's never gonna get old.
So I think sometimes we feellike if we don't put our
creativity into the world thatwe have an issue, we have
issues, actually.
Now that I'm thinking aboutthis, we really have to start
reducing the amount of we why dowe always think it's our problem
and our responsibility?
Oh yeah.
It's always like I can just dothis.
And but then you're like, youcan't scale that way, and you
can't scale life that way.

(41:01):
So I think that's one of thethings I've talked about.
But the the litmus test is hegoes, I'll come up with a
business idea, and he's like,and I won't do anything about it
for two weeks.
And he goes, and at the end ofthe two weeks, uh he goes 90% of
the time I've already forgottenabout it and I don't really
care.
He goes, and then there's thethen there's the 10% or the you

(41:23):
know the one out of a hundredthat I just can't sleep.
I'm I'm constantly thinkingabout it.
And by the end of the two weeks,if I'm still like obsessed with
it, he goes, then I'll then Ijump on it.
Yeah, and I think that's uh andit's not necessarily about
that's that's what business is.
That's what I used to do withgirlfriends.
That's yeah, that's a good one.
Sorry, babe.
I was uh I was uh taking sometime to think about us.

(41:45):
Uh but I think here's the thing,I'm gonna say hi to you, and
then I'm not gonna talk to youfor two weeks.
I think we get and it's one ofthose things where we I was
saying earlier of the lettinglife run you, or you can, you
know, really kind of identifyinghow you can be pushing your life
forward.
Is I think we I get caught up byproblems, and I'm like, I want

(42:06):
to solve that.
And it's like, wait, was it evenmy problem to solve?
No.
Did it actually add much valueto anyone's life?
No, it just you get it was aflashy, shiny object, and I went
full squirrel.
And actually, and now I've justI've wasted my time and it's
like taking the five minutes tobe like, is this actually my
problem?

SPEAKER_04 (42:26):
But you know the best part of that is what when
you don't fix it, you feelguilty about Oh, 100%.
No, dude, not having done thething that you didn't need to do
in the first place.

SPEAKER_05 (42:35):
I spend an ornament amount, and I'm embarrassed
amount of time thinking aboutall the other teams that I don't
run at my company.
Like, I've I've got a coupledifferent teams that report to
me, but like I probably spendmore time thinking about the
other teams that don't report tome about how they could be doing
stuff, and I'm like, why am Idoing this?
This isn't my response.
It's not that like uh I don't itI don't treat it as a not my not

(42:58):
my job description, but it'slike I just want them to do
really well too, and I want tomake sure my team can integrate
with their team so we havecross, you know,
cross-functional performance.
I'm gonna use some reallydouchebag terms here right now,
but but then you're like, butthen I'll get fixated on it, and
it's like, wait, no, no, theyhave a great manager over there,
he's good, he does thingsdifferently than I do, or she
does things differently than Ido, and I need to be okay with

(43:18):
that.

SPEAKER_04 (43:19):
So I I read this quote somewhere recently that
really related to uh thecoaching experience, and it was
something along the lines ofpotential doesn't exist, it's
just a thought of what you woulddo if you were in that person's
situation.

SPEAKER_07 (43:38):
Okay, and I was like, ooh.

SPEAKER_05 (43:42):
I in potential can I think that's something that
really haunted me growing up wasI always heard about how much
potential is I think a lot ofADHD people did diagnose ADHD
people.
Oh, well, like I said, you stilldo, and it's still, I mean, it's
it's done more.
It's funny because people belike, Why do you work so hard?
Why do you why don't you likeyou go on vacation, you're still

(44:04):
checking everything, you'remaking I'm like, well, one, I do
it because of like my company isgreat and allows me a bunch of
freedom, and I and I love it inthe sense that you can do more,
and I have, but I I'm like, Idon't know, I'm probably trying
to prove something to peoplethat thought that I was a piece
of shit growing up because I toyour what you were saying is
like I would wait till 11o'clock the night before

(44:25):
something was due, and you'd seethat look of disappointment in
my parents' eyes, and it's likeI yeah, I guess what I felt
guilty for the past three daysthat I haven't even started it,
and you don't even know thefreaking anxiety I've had.
But you're right, just on thesurface, I was able to keep it
cool and calm and collect, andit looked like I was having fun,
but no, I was a ball of shit.

SPEAKER_04 (44:42):
And I knew now you would get it done, and then you
would get that hit from beinglike, You'll never finish this,
and then you do it.

SPEAKER_05 (44:48):
Yeah, and now I probably sacrifice I probably
sacrifice some sort of level ofhappiness in my life to prove
people that I'm more capablethan but I think the the
potential thing resonatedbecause you see it's But that's
I think potential's a I thinkpotential is a harmful word, and

(45:08):
I don't want to like I don't saythat in a sense of wanting to
protect people's feelings, but Ido think when you say to someone
the potential is there, you it'skind of just calling them a
piece of shit.

SPEAKER_04 (45:21):
Like uh it's viewing something from two different you
know perspectives for sure.
Like if I'm watching myten-year-old play soccer, like
yeah, if you could just do thisand this and this, you'd be
amazing.
But he's he's not gonna beamazing because he's 10 and he

(45:45):
hasn't learned that right now.
You know.
So Yeah, and it is it's wherethey're at, I think was the key
one we're saying, it's wherethat person.
But the the irony of it is Idon't always look at my
situation and do the you know,and do the best that that I
could be doing in my situation.

(46:07):
I'll think about it in like aguilty way, like oh, I should
have done.
But I but I don't think aboutit.
But I don't really think aboutit sometimes in an active way of
yeah, I'll just do this rightnow.
Like that would be the smartthing to do.
Even though I can see it if Iwas watching anybody else.

SPEAKER_07 (46:23):
You know.
So sometimes terribly oblivious.
Yeah.
I think that's uh um I don'tknow, you're terribly aware of
how shitty I am.

SPEAKER_04 (46:41):
So but also in in a sense of maybe coaching or maybe
in a sense for you like workingin a business the that feeling
you get when I think it can cutdown on your level of
frustration knowing that oneyeah, that's not really your job

(47:06):
to literally do what somebodyelse is doing.
Like you're you're probablylooking at it incorrectly at
that point.
You're like, man, if you justdid this, like the upside would
be huge.
But you might not have anycontrol over that.
No, you don't.
And if you do have some controlover that, then you know, what

(47:28):
are you gonna do to to bringabout that?
You know, uh unlock a skill orunlock a an idea or something so
that they can, you know, go tothe next level that works for
me.

SPEAKER_05 (47:39):
And he has no idea what he wants to do when he
grows up, which same, which Itold I've taught I've had many
chats with him on, and I'm justlike, hey man, I'm 34 and I
don't know what I want to dowhen I grow up.
I'm like, I get it.
It's and guess what?
You can be you can say the samething when you're 55, uh 65, 75.
I life's not you're notsolidified anything you're

(48:02):
doing.
So but my thing with him is he'ssmart, and it's but he doesn't
he just doesn't have a lot ofeffort to give.
And I don't know the reason why,and I've had chats with him.
Like you do realize we you're20, you don't have a college
degree, we gave you anopportunity to start this

(48:22):
company, and you can be fiveyears further than your buddies
that are all in college rightnow, because you're building a
career, you're building a skillset that you could go to college
and learn, but you're gonna geta skill set here, you know,
network administration, butyou're gonna learn about
networks, you're gonna learnabout computers, servers, you

(48:43):
know, all of that.
And that's gonna make youinvaluable because that's only
it's we're not.
I mean, the world is gonna beevery day, there's more and more
computers and processing andnetworking needs.
Like your job is going to besafe.
Now, will AI hamper that?
You know, it's just anothertool.
So, but I'm always like, heyman, this doesn't have to be
your future.
But if you just invest a littlebit of effort into what you're

(49:05):
doing, you're leapfroggingyourself, you're making
connections, and guess what?
You might find something youlike to do along the way because
right now you don't knowanything, so you may as well go
down a path because that path isgonna take you somewhere that
might have a path offshoot ofthat.
But this whole ideal of justfloating, it's not taking you
anywhere.
So that's where I get into thepotential of like, you are

(49:26):
smart, you just gotta, you justhave to be okay with not knowing
sometimes, but still investing.
And I think that's a hard thingfor people to wrap their minds
around of like, okay, I am gonnajust invest in this, even if it
isn't my passion, right?
Because this m because uh Idon't the other option is
nothing, and that's just me notdoing anything, not not not

(49:48):
growing.

SPEAKER_04 (49:48):
Here's a bad analogy for that.
Ooh, I like the younger personthat gets lost in the woods.
Is it safer to just sit andremain where you are or to start
sprinting in a random direction?

SPEAKER_07 (50:08):
I mean, that's depends where the helicopter's
at.

SPEAKER_04 (50:11):
I mean, if you come out alive, but did you die?
But did you die?

SPEAKER_05 (50:16):
I don't where is it at?
Uh I gotta get it.
It's been so long.
Yeah, it's been so it's been solong since I've had to use these
pads that I'm like, where arethey?
Where are they?
I can't wait till we have apermanent sound guy that can
just do that for us.

SPEAKER_07 (50:31):
Uh I need to get you your own sound pads.
Can we can we end on the AI?

SPEAKER_05 (50:40):
Okay.

unknown (50:41):
All right.

SPEAKER_04 (50:41):
Let's do it.
I sent this to you, and I Ithink it's a really half-baked,
thought-out idea.
Okay.
That the movie Goodwill Huntingis oh yeah.
A warning for the future of AI.
And please present yourargument.

(51:03):
I can't.
I can't.
The theory just sounds reallycool.
Then what?
I just you know how people comeup, they're like, oh, listen to
this fan theory, and then you'relike, how you just made shit up.
You just made that up about thatentire movie.
And they're like, yeah, butwouldn't it be cool if it was
true?
I was like, no, because it's afucking movie.

(51:24):
It's it's a movie.
It's still fake.
So what how is it a warning?
Uh the talking about will as AI,this super intelligent thing.
Sentinel sentient sentientbeing, thank you.
That has information gleanedspecifically from reading texts.

(51:50):
Yes.
And not necessarily experiences.
Okay.
Uh, even the math, the like whenhe's saying that our favorite.

SPEAKER_03 (52:00):
Do you know how easy this is for me?
Do you have any fucking idea howeasy this is?
This is a fucking joke.
Yeah, it's like I'm sorry youcan't do it.
It's like he doesn't even know Iwouldn't have to fucking sit
here and watch you fumble aroundand fuck it up.

SPEAKER_05 (52:11):
He doesn't understand the con he doesn't
understand the importance.

SPEAKER_04 (52:14):
But it's almost like gravity, but it's almost like he
didn't even learn it.
It's just like he knows it.

SPEAKER_05 (52:18):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (52:19):
You know?
And so then the the the famousbench scene when he's you know
talking about uh ask you aboutlove and ask about art and and
all this kind of stuff.
And quote me a sonic.
Yeah, and he and he goes throughthat whole thing, and and so
it's this sense of you have alot of information, but not a

(52:41):
lot of experience.
That's well, that's and and whatand what is what is the ending
of the movie?
The ending of the movie is himgetting out of this for sure
thing where he can use all ofthis information and going and
chasing an experience.
Which is with a girl.

SPEAKER_05 (52:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (52:59):
So uh I think that the movie definitely is about a
a search for connection.
And if AI does nothing else, itit can lead and a lot of times
does lead to disconnection.
How does AI lead todisconnection?

(53:20):
I mean, it's doing it right nowwith with certain youth.
Like people Yeah, but that'sjust I mean, that's that's
techno.
I mean, I wouldn't necessarilyput that on AI.
I think the algorithms aregetting better at targeting.
No, no, no, no.
I'm talking about like specificpersonal interactions with AI
chat.
Oh, that's dangerous.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (53:37):
People should be very like the whole people going
to therapy on Chat GPT, that'sreally fucking dangerous.

SPEAKER_04 (53:43):
And I guess I didn't I I don't really do the AI side.
It's funny because I was talkingabout some with somebody It's a
tool.
Like what people understand is atool.
And it's there's Dur duringsoccer and and I I had brought
this up and I was like, well, ifAI becomes like a very sentient
being and and goes off on itsown and and really has the

(54:08):
ability to reinvent itselfcontinuously, uh, which is what
people don't always understand.
Yeah.
That's AGI, which is artificialgeneral intelligence.
We're not there.
We're not there, but the thewarning signs are Yeah, I don't
know.
Maybe not.

(54:28):
But but I but I also I I thinkthere's there's a uh a pessimism
from especially our generationwhen we're growing up.
And it's like you're watchingthe Jetsons cartoon, and in the
80s you're expecting by the year2020 to have flying cars.
For I I can't tell you why thereasoning would be, but that was

(54:52):
it was like, oh yeah, we'll havelike hovering cars when when no
one could really just explain toyou the physics of do you know
how loud that would be to havethat?
Like it doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_05 (55:05):
Well, that was like there was an episode where Joe
Rogan had like Elon Musk on, andhe's like, and Joe's spitting
some fucking theory about well,we'll just is don't we ever
think there'll be some kind oflike magnetism that'll keep
things hovering?
And Elon's just like, you know,that's not that's not how
magnets work.
Like you just the interferenceand everything, and then he was

(55:26):
like, What and then same thing,Elon's like, no, that's called
air pollution.
We'll have fucking fan like bighelicopter fans everywhere.
That's no, that's not a solutioneither.
And so that was when I thinkthat's when he was talking about
the boring company.
He goes, So right now we can goeast and west.
Yeah, he goes, you know, we wewe talk about being able to
drive, and he's like, We havecongestion issues.

(55:47):
He's like, So the only way to gois north and south, and he's
like, South is way easier thannorth, right?
And that's when he startedbuilding the tunnels, yeah.
And it's like, well, we havecongestion, so we're gonna have
to layer this so that we canreduce that.
And then yeah, it's like, no, wewe can't go up because that's
just gonna create a lot offucking chaos.

SPEAKER_04 (56:04):
You gotta make tunnels, yeah, which is where
kids go missing.
Um, I heard that somewhere.

SPEAKER_05 (56:11):
I don't I don't know where it's coming from.

SPEAKER_04 (56:13):
I don't know a lot about tunnels, but uh the Vegas
has Vegas is gonna have a moles,Vietnam, beaver, coal mines,
beavers build dams, canaries.
That's they don't do tunnels atall.
Okay, okay, they're birds, yes.
And you said coal mines uhabducted children.

SPEAKER_05 (56:34):
Okay, all in tunnels.

SPEAKER_04 (56:36):
I don't know anything good about tunnels.

SPEAKER_05 (56:38):
That's true.
Have you heard this?
So I I don't know if you sawthis, but Scott Galloway, and I
was just thinking about thehuman connection, and this one
was on the other day.
This is a Bill Maher.

SPEAKER_00 (56:52):
Because safetyism has uh, you know, this is one of
the things I have with certainpeople who make everything about
safety.
Safety is this is bubble soberor people that basically like
the sober movement to get tothat place where you are talking
to other people and socializing.
It's not to excess, but yes,it's social drinking a little

(57:13):
bit, maybe sometimes a littletoo much when you're adolescent,
is probably better than sittingin that basement.

SPEAKER_05 (57:20):
So that's Bill, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (57:22):
But here, this is Scott Galloway who's the second
worst thing to happen to youngpeople is remote work.
Uh one in three relationshipsbegin at work.
This is where you find friends,mentors, and mates, and
especially young men need theguardrails of a workplace.
But in my view, the worst thingthat's happened to young people
is the anti-alcohol movement.
I've had Huberman on, who I'm abig fan of an anti-on.
And my point is that the risksto your 25-year-old liver are

(57:44):
risk are are dwarfed by the riskof social isolation.
In some, think of all theamazing relationships you've had
in your life and be honest.
Did alcohol play a role?
In some, get out, drink more,and make a series of bad
decisions in my payoff.

SPEAKER_04 (58:01):
It's it's there's some truth to that, which is And
also, if anyone doesn't knowScott Galloway, that's not
that's not like an anarchist uhpoint of view or something, you
know.
No, Scott, because that could bereally taken out of context, I
think.

SPEAKER_05 (58:16):
But Scott Galloway is a uh professor at NYU.
He was a finance guy, and thennow he's but yeah, there's
there's a sense of risk, reward.
He talks about that too.
I think it might have been thatone.
He's like, he's like, go out,get drunk, make your own.
He's like, stop watching porn.
Stop.
He's like, stop watching as muchporn.

(58:36):
He goes, make your own bad porn.

SPEAKER_04 (58:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 (58:38):
He's like, just get drunk and make some bad
decisions.
Yeah.
And it's true.

SPEAKER_04 (58:41):
Like, I think But there's there to that point.
I was just reading an articlewhere kids are reliant on AI and
they're not, they don't know howto like approach people and ask
people for whatever, or how tomake friends.

SPEAKER_05 (58:57):
A young 20 year old 20.
This is a different one, butshe's a young girl that works
for us now.
She's uh got her marketingdegree, she's working in our
marketing department, and shecalled a professional vendor the
other day, and they asked her aquestion.
She wasn't, and it was likeright in the first three seconds
of the phone call.
She fucking hung up because shepanicked, because she just

(59:17):
doesn't uh swell at a bug.
And it's clean and that's sowild to me because I grew up
making like I remember dialingyour friend's house hoping that
they'd answer and then they'd betheir mom.
They'd be like, um, can can JakeSusan?
Can Jake Yeah, exactly?
Can can Jake come to the phoneright now?
Uh Dylan, were you out late lastnight with them?

(59:39):
No, that no, that was not me.

SPEAKER_04 (59:40):
Or if they had like an older sister.
Oh yeah.
Like so hey Jennifer, is it'sScott there?
She's like, Yeah, you want totalk to him?
Like, not really.
I just kind of called to talk toyou.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 (59:52):
Shut up, creep.

SPEAKER_05 (59:55):
Yeah.
No, it's um God forbid thedating.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:00):
Answers.
Okay, no.
Dude, calling your what do youwhat are you doing calling my
house?
I was like, what are you doinggetting up off the couch, Joe?

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:08):
Go sit down.
Call your girlfriend and havetheir parents answer.
God, that was awesome.
I missed those days.
Now, now nobody answersanything.
Nobody even answers a door.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:17):
No.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:18):
I don't.
I you mean look at that Jerseymic sitting on my counter right
now.
No contact delivery.
Not because I'm afraid of germs.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:25):
Hey, look at I know you're driving a UPS truck, but
I can't be sure.
I can't be sure.
Not gonna open the door.

SPEAKER_07 (01:00:31):
Damn.

SPEAKER_05 (01:00:32):
It's not gonna happen.
It is.
Um the big one in our the bigone in our office, because we're
in tech, so obviously we have alot of nerds, and I put myself
in that category.
But the amount of people theamount of people that watch
people game, they're watchingpeople video, like they're

(01:00:55):
watching the streamers, and it'syeah, it's good.
It's just mind-boggling.
That's fun.
Okay.
But I'm like, what do you dowhen you go home?
They're like, oh, we watch this.
I'm like, so you you're youryour life is watching other
people live their life.
That's and again, it's it's Idon't I don't think anyone in
our office is unhealthy wherelike that's all they do, but

(01:01:17):
that's always just been reallyintriguing to me.
Um, that I'm watching somebodyelse live.
Yeah, but don't we do that alot?
I don't know.
I watch I watch people buildingairplanes, so I guess that's the
same thing.
Yeah, it's it seems very I'mtrying to learn though, is that
like I'm like, how'd you do thatpart?

SPEAKER_04 (01:01:33):
They don't have to go make that.
They do to an extent too.
Like I notice it with Phoenixdoes it, Corbin does it, and
it's whatever game they're intoat the time.
It's like, oh, could I do this?
Is this a different tactic?
Is this a different way I canmove on this thing?
Is this a and it's uh I don'tlike it because of the attention

(01:01:53):
because a lot of times they'replaying the game while they're
watching somebody play the game.
Jesus.
And so they're not I don't feellike they're really tuned into
either specifically, and that'sthe well, that's what they've
been talking about.
And then the TV's on in thebackground, too.
That's how there's musicplaying.

SPEAKER_05 (01:02:07):
There's uh they're basically saying like you can
it's not called ADHD.
Oh god, I gotta get that bookout again.
It's one of my books upstairs,but it feels like brain fry.
No, but basically like peopleare developing ADHD not from you
know not basically being bornwith it or having whatever, you
know, the origin of it.

(01:02:28):
You're just but you're fightingit, you're creating it in your
body by just doing this wholeconstant stimulation.
And that like that happened tome yesterday.
If and I I'll catch myself doingit where I had the TV on and
then I'm like scrolling reels,which I don't ever like the past
two weeks, I've scrolled morereels than I think I have in my
entire life.
So I've got to be.

(01:02:50):
But then it's like I got that,and then I'm like, oh, I need to
go.
I need and then I startshopping, and I've got the T and
I'm like, wait, what justhappened in the movie?
And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa.
You just you laid on the couchto relax before you were going
out.
Like, yeah, so I made myselfturn my phone off and just like
watch the goddamn movie.
Yeah, like just focus and justchill.
Like you're just you're notactually relaxing right now

(01:03:13):
because you're just frying yourbrain to your point with just
this constant stimulation.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:17):
Yeah, I like laying down, putting on the heating pad
that I don't have anymorebecause I had to give it to
Corbin.
Why?
Because I walked in his roomyesterday and his Is he jerking
off with it?
Remote no, Jesus Christ.
The remote was that's one reasonto get rid of it.
The remote was in the cup ofcoffee next to his bed.

(01:03:37):
Cause like he just his bed ishis bed is elevated, so it's
like slightly higher than thedresser.
And I walk in there and theremote just fell and it landed
fully in the and fully submergedin the cup of coffee.
And he's just sitting therewatching TV.
Kid's my favorite.
That kid is my favorite.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:54):
What the fuck is this?

SPEAKER_07 (01:03:56):
What's going on?

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:57):
I was like, Well, you don't have a heating pad
anymore.
That's what's going on.
I love that kid so much.
I mean, if he can't drop it,he'll dunk it in something.
Yeah, you know.
He's hard on shit, isn't he?
We stopped at uh coffee shop inOrient and yesterday after uh a
basketball game, and so he's gotuh like Italian soda or

(01:04:17):
something.
And I'm walking down the hallwayand I hear a drink fall, and I
turn around and he's holding hisdrink, and it looks like it's
pouring out of the bottom of thecup, so it obviously broke.
So there Italian soda all overthe floor, and then he proceeds
to sit it on the counter that isfull of shit.
Oh my god, and it's stillleaking everywhere.
And I'm like, why?

(01:04:38):
What why would you put it there?

SPEAKER_07 (01:04:41):
So that's yeah, it's my life.
He just drops everything all thetime.
I love it, including yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:51):
So I gave up my heating pad and gave it to him.
Jesus made sure it was on theother side.
Did my mom something can'thappen.

SPEAKER_05 (01:04:58):
I I'm I'm still hard on shit.
Like, I just I already know.
Like whenever I buy something,like I the sunglasses I have are
expensive.
And I remember buying them andjust being like, You're a
fucking idiot, because you knowyou're gonna destroy these.
Luckily, I haven't yet, knock onwood.
But my mom used to make me putmy hands in my pockets before
we'd go in the store because Iwas just a wrecking ball.

SPEAKER_04 (01:05:21):
Oh, it it doesn't even matter if the hands are in
your pocket because then thesethey're like leaning and
bouncing on things, and like,what's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_05 (01:05:34):
I was always afraid of the key in the head, and my
dad would fucking take a key andjust jab you.
Oh, yeah.
He had beamer keys, so they'relike square, they weren't like
sharp and jagged.
You're like, you hit me in theear.
Dude, he would just like take,take like it, just like a
sixteenth of an inch of that,and he would just put his finger
and he would just knock you inthe head, and you'd be like,
fuck.
Yeah.

(01:05:54):
That explains a lot.
Oh, I know.
I know.
Yeah.
So anyway, human connection,keeping your world smaller.
Will is AI.
Drink more caffeine.
Drink more caffeine, alcohol.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:09):
Don't drink drink more alcohol, drink less
caffeine.
Some caffeine.
No.
Some alcohol.
A lot of caffeine?
No caffeine after two o'clock.
Okay.

SPEAKER_06 (01:06:20):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:21):
Okay.
I oh sleep's important, man.
I'll end on this.
Uh I was talking to one of myfriends, and shh, it was after
our last snow we had here.
And she goes, You weren'toutside shoveling, were you?
And I was like, Well, that wasthat was snow blowing.
I was like, why?
Was that you and theflamethrower?
She goes, You shouldn't shovel.
I go, What do you mean youshouldn't shovel?
She goes, People over 45shouldn't shovel.

SPEAKER_05 (01:06:42):
Oh, this yeah, the study suggests that you're gonna
have a heart attack.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:44):
And I go, what?
And she goes, Yeah, that you'revery likely to have a heart
attack.
And I was like, Yeah, but notfrom shoveling.
I'm not gonna have a heartattack from shoveling.

unknown (01:06:54):
No.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:55):
I'm gonna have a heart attack from this
conversation.
Yeah, like I I take prescriptionmethamphetamine and I drink 800
milligrams of caffeine a day.
I'm not, I'm not gonna have aheart attack from shoveling.
That's not it.
No.
Also, people have heart attackfrom shoveling because they
don't do shit else 10 months outof the year.

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:12):
Please tell me how shoveling is different from my
job as a carpenter.
You know, you're like, I'm a I'ma fucking I'm a carpenter.
Like I don't know, I fuckingbuild shit for a living.
I'm always up and down movingaround.
Tell me how this is different.
It because you're cold?
Yeah, I think that's part of it.

SPEAKER_07 (01:07:27):
Is it?

SPEAKER_05 (01:07:27):
Yeah, I'm not cold, I got good team.
I think it's the extremeconditions that's not.
I don't know.
It's not extreme.
Do you know how much I love coldair?
It was really cold last night.
And it's it's do you know how abitch.
What I love about cold air iswhen you're a little ripped and
you're like, oh, I'm a littledrunk right now.
And then you walk out and youget a blast and you're like, I'm
back, baby.
Yeah, it's sober.

(01:07:48):
And then you walk back insideand you're like, no, no, I'm
not.
I'm not.
This feels like hell in here.
It does.
It is amazing how it is just alittle bit of a superpower for
you for a couple.

SPEAKER_04 (01:07:58):
It was even better when the bars you could smoke
and you'd go outside and you'rejust like, it was like you were
in some minty bubblegumcommercial, and you're like, and
then you walk back inside andit's just seventh circle of hell
with nicotine in the air.
Yeah, yeah, just dripping offthe ceiling.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:17):
Yeah, just yellow tar everywhere.
Well, on that note, don't don'tbuy yellow tar.

SPEAKER_04 (01:08:25):
Don't smoke it either.
No, that's black tar.
Yeah, don't do black tar.

SPEAKER_05 (01:08:31):
Don't do black tar here.
Yellow tar's okay.
All right, kids, you heard ithere first.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:36):
You still here It's over.