December 1, 2024
In this compelling episode of "Testimonies of Triumph," we explore a transformative journey marked by heartache, radical change, and deepening faith. This narrative illustrates how life's challenges can become catalysts for profound personal and spiritual growth, reshaping not just one life but impacting countless others through unwavering trust in God's plan.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ann Lindholm (00:01):
Afghanistan falls. August 2021, a former colleague reaches out.
We are inundated with request for help. Can you help? Yes.
For for 6 weeks solid, almost 17 hours a day, a 100% volunteering when I really needed a job
and was going through separation.
Bradley Waldrop (00:19):
Oh.
Ann Lindholm (00:22):
I I was volunteering for helping with Afghan rescues.
And by the way, right before that started, I was sitting in my study.
Psalm 27 4 is above the fireplace, and I just kept begging God.
I knew I had to get a job because I was about to be divorced at at some point soon, and I needed
to figure out how am I gonna serve you know, provide for my family.
I said, God, that's what I want right there. It's Psalm 27 4.
(00:45):
If I can do that and provide for my family, please make that that's what I want.
And so I do this volunteer for 6 weeks, and I get a phone call from the from the lead guy.
And he says, so, Al, that's what they call me, you've done a phenomenal job.
How would you like to get paid for what you're doing?
Bradley Waldrop (01:07):
Welcome to testimonies of triumph where real stories of faith come to life.
In each episode, we share powerful testimonies of how God transforms trials into triumphs, bringing
hope and redemption to everyday lives.
Whether you're seeking encouragement, wisdom, or inspiration, you'll hear how God is working
(01:28):
today, turning even the darkest moments into stories of victory.
Now, let's dive into today's episode and witness the incredible power of God's grace in action.
Well, Anne, welcome to testimonies of triumph.
(01:51):
Well, you and I don't know each other.
Jordan is here as well, and we're going to sort of just sit back and listen.
And, I know a little bit about what you're gonna talk about, and I'm fascinated.
So, if you could do me a favor and just give us a little bit of a backstory though before you
sort of dive in deep where God showed up and all these other really cool thing all the other really cool things happen.
(02:15):
Like, you know, where did Anne come from, and and what what was life like early on in life,
and, and kinda what were the circumstances that led up to where you are now and, kind of, the
things that you've seen along the way?
Ann Lindholm (02:29):
You said we have how long?
Bradley Waldrop (02:31):
Yeah. Take whatever time you need.
So for everybody in the audience, just kick back and relax. I know. I know. Just kidding.
Ann Lindholm (02:39):
I don't know. I'm like, wait.
What am I talking about? Yeah.
I was born and raised Roman Catholic. I'm Sicilian.
There's German on my mom's side.
I've always been a free spirited, inquisitive,
(03:02):
truth seeker
Bradley Waldrop (03:03):
k.
Ann Lindholm (03:03):
Defender of the vulnerable and the weak, you might say.
I I guess that to give the the fullest picture and the quickest amount of time, went to Catholic school, all the things. Right?
I had a child out of wedlock at 19.
(03:25):
I didn't I wanna really watch what I say because I don't wanna stay things in it.
Bradley Waldrop (03:32):
I get it.
Ann Lindholm (03:33):
I left the Catholic church.
Bradley Waldrop (03:35):
Fine.
We're not here to bash anybody. I mean Exactly. Right?
This this is God's Exactly.
Ann Lindholm (03:43):
That's why I wanna be.
Bradley Waldrop (03:44):
Yeah. This is God's story.
Just tell just tell God's story.
It'll all work itself out.
Ann Lindholm (03:49):
Yeah. And so I had a child at at a at a at 19.
I was lived a very colorful life for about 5, 6 years, maybe in my, early adult years, and there's
a lot of other things in that.
I did have, and, again, and out of respect for certain individuals, I was pressured.
(04:11):
I'm not gonna name names or anything like that.
I was pressured that if I were to get pregnant again to have an abortion.
I did get pregnant again.
I did have an abortion because that voice spoke louder in my head than the voice of God.
During my younger years, friends of mine, I did enter public school in 4th grade of the week,
(04:35):
and friends of mine gave me bibles and things like that.
And so I would read and then when I would see what was being taught at at Catholic school or
Catholic church, I'm like, I'm not really seeing that.
Like, I'm not sure where the, like, where's the holy water for in the, you know, when you get
to the door and you and all the things and all the aerobics and the sit in the fuse and all the stuff.
(04:55):
Like, where is all this stuff?
And then there were a bunch of other things that I wasn't really seeing, and so I just had a lot of questions.
And so, so then I entered that kind of rebellious phase and, and then had the child, had the abortion.
I was seeing my oldest I'm the youngest of 4.
I was seeing my oldest and his wife and their family and the way they were living, and they
(05:19):
just always seemed very joyful, peaceful, balanced.
Like, they just kinda seem to have their stuff together.
And I was like, what is like, why are y'all so different? What is going on?
They invited me to church with my daughter, who at that time would have been to.
They also gave me my first, like, I call it a real study bible.
(05:41):
Again, I don't mean to be offensive.
For me, it was a real study bible.
It was not a Catholic bible.
It was a real study bible that, you know, whatever. Yeah.
And I devoured that thing.
I tore that thing up, and I still have it.
And it's held together by some bands.
I have many bibles like that.
And so I went as a broken individual, and in September of 1996, the abortion was in June.
(06:08):
September of 1996, I believe is the correct date. I could be off.
During a worship service, I felt the worship leader call out that there was somebody out there
that needed to get up to the front.
I knew immediately it was me, except that my I found my feet, you know, stuck in these blocks
of cement, and I couldn't really go anywhere.
(06:30):
And he called out a second time, and I'm like, I can't move.
I felt tangible things taking place in within my spirit.
I didn't know what this was. Right? I got no idea. The third call.
I'm like up at that altar and in front of, like, 400 strangers, I am just weeping and bawling
and just over and over, you know, god, please forgive me. Please forgive me.
(06:58):
I honestly I I'm not sure that I knew that forgiveness was available for me at that point because,
like, I and and again, I hadn't really ever walked with the Lord.
Bradley Waldrop (07:11):
Sure.
Ann Lindholm (07:11):
Right? Like, I knew God. I I knew God. I knew about God.
And listen, I had dreams as a little girl that God gave me, like, dreams that I've written down and stuff.
And so I know he spoke to me, but I don't know that I was ever actually, like, walking with him.
And what I mean by that is, like, actually following him and submitting to him. Right?
(07:33):
And so I I didn't really know that forgiveness was available for me maybe.
Bradley Waldrop (07:39):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (07:40):
And all I knew is I I I knew that what I had done was wrong.
And I was disgusted and felt so ashamed, and I knew it was nothing that, sorry.
I it still is emotional.
I think you get over stuff.
(08:01):
And so I I knew I couldn't take it back.
I knew that it was something that I had done that that it was done.
Bradley Waldrop (08:09):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (08:11):
And my brother and sister-in-law pretty quickly were up in the front with me, and I'm just crying
out, begging him to forgive me, and she has whispers in my ear and something he already has.
And it was, like, all of a sudden, this huge wind was just lifted.
And and I'm literally bawling and weeping and laughing hysterically all at the same time because
(08:34):
I feel so just so much joy and so much love.
Bradley Waldrop (08:38):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (08:39):
That was the beginning of my walk with the Lord, of my real walk.
This was no longer just an investigative project.
Bradley Waldrop (08:48):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (08:48):
It was now an intimate relationship that started. Mhmm.
And so I would say that is the beginning literally of where I am now.
Bradley Waldrop (09:02):
So look, I I appreciate the tenderness around some of this other stuff.
I can tell you I grew up a Lutheran kid, which is Catholic light.
And I had similar experiences where I would walk into a different denomination and try to understand
why it is I wasn't kneeling or standing or, you know, why didn't we have the hymnal that everybody
(09:24):
else has seems to have.
I I I get it.
This this very intimate relationship that you have is a very special thing, and I I appreciate
you sharing the vulnerability of being there and just being totally broken.
And in that surrender, we get a chance to see God's grace come in, and and you have this this neat relationship.
(09:51):
A lot has happened in your life since then.
What are some highlights that might be interesting for other people to know about you other
than this face to face experience you had?
Ann Lindholm (10:05):
Yeah. So I will say, I at some point, and I a lot of things are kind of blurry as far as, like,
specific dates and things like that. I remember events.
I don't necessarily necessarily remember dates.
I'm I'm doing great to remember my 4 children's birthdays.
Bradley Waldrop (10:22):
I get it.
Ann Lindholm (10:24):
But, I went to school to college, and I I was going for a psychology degree.
My first two courses were sociology and psychology.
Absolutely loved the heck out of those courses, did great.
During the research project, I came across what was called the Ikhwan website, which is the Muslim Brotherhood website.
(10:47):
Internet is extremely new at this point. K.
What I saw I I wasn't looking for it at all.
And what I saw was extremely disturbing.
Bradley Waldrop (11:00):
Mhmm.
Ann Lindholm (11:04):
It was all in Arabic.
I didn't know what exactly it was, except that I knew that it was bad.
And somehow I knew that, like, okay, this is, like, I'm not sure what this is.
I was intrigued by it.
I spent some time there, and I just kinda knew where I had a feeling somehow this was gonna come back.
I this I I needed I was gonna remember that I saw this.
(11:27):
Fast forward a lot and, end up getting married.
I married, the my manager at the personal training gym, and 911 happened.
And then when the second tower fell, like, I my mind was already back at that website, and I
(11:52):
already knew who did it.
Bradley Waldrop (11:54):
Wow.
Ann Lindholm (11:55):
And I immediately started going back and researching and that remember I told you, I've always
had, like, this investigative, like, mindset.
I I'm always I've always been inquisitive, and so I really went just on an investigative journey
of who are these people and all the things.
(12:15):
And again, I may there there will be people out there who will say, I know it's not true because
that was it was the mistake. Yes.
I might get some dates wrong, but the things actually happened.
They may be out of order or whatever.
Bradley Waldrop (12:25):
I get it.
Ann Lindholm (12:27):
We were stationed on the East Coast. Oh, so 911 happens.
The husband can't really stay on the sidelines, all the fenings. He signs up.
He had to go through all these waivers and all the stuff.
He ends up going because of his age, all these things, and he becomes, a ranger, with 175 and
is in special operations for 9 years.
Works for station on East Coast, Hunter Army Airfield.
(12:49):
I get very heavily, politically involved.
All of this research that's happening, I'm seeing all the things that are happening in our country.
I'm the typical white American, evangelical, Christian, blah blah blah.
Got very sucked into the poll, that whole scene.
(13:09):
I started briefing legislators on political issues.
I am one of the ones who actually read the entire Obamacare legislation, all, like, 13,000 pages, whatever it is.
Bradley Waldrop (13:21):
You have the patience of Job.
Ann Lindholm (13:24):
It's not the patience. It's it it is that inquisitive I I needed to know what was in things. Yes. Yeah.
And so the things that are in there, it's asked me later. Okay. It was a
Bradley Waldrop (13:35):
Be a different episode.
Ann Lindholm (13:37):
Anyway yeah. So through this whole process, I'm breaking legislators. I'm I'm holding conferences.
I'm speaking to crowds of over 5,000 at TV parties and all the things and, like, you know, just
and my research in the Islamic threat became a major focus and key theme of the work that I was doing.
(13:59):
God started introducing me to people, connecting me to people all along the way.
You have to remember, I left college, when I started having kid I I had to be a single mom for
a while, and I just there was no way I could do it.
During this time, started having kids, we're stationed on the East Coast.
I went back to school.
Now I switched over to homeland security, counterterrorism homeland security degree.
(14:24):
And so now all of this research, all these connections, it's like, have you ever you look back,
you're like, oh my gosh.
And you start seeing, like, all the things that are connected and these people, you're like,
okay, I met this person 10 years ago.
I'll make this person 5, dah, dah,
Bradley Waldrop (14:38):
dah. You can't make it up.
Ann Lindholm (14:39):
These nodes.
Bradley Waldrop (14:40):
Yeah. You
Ann Lindholm (14:40):
can't. And so there's all these nodes that are starting to look like paths that are that are
crossing and, and all the things.
And so I literally have basically this war room, if you will, where I have my walls are covered
with prominent people and connections and the lines and and, like, if anybody and and people
(15:01):
did, by the way, would walk in and they're like, what on earth?
And so through all of these connections and people, I started getting involved in some work,
with a focus on the Islamic threat to our country, especially from within our borders and especially
from within our own government.
(15:22):
I had been thrown out of chief the chief of police offices because I was exposing their connection to the Muslim brotherhood.
I've been chased by Muslims in downtown areas, and this has been the states, and all the fattings.
And so, anyway, we get to a point through this whole process, I'm getting sucked into this very
(15:44):
far right whipping evangelical mindset kind of almost cult.
Bradley Waldrop (15:49):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (15:49):
My heart has gone very, very hard towards Muslims in general.
In fact, I thought that it was a splendid idea.
Let's hold an event for Muslims at every major football stadium, and let's bring them and let's,
like, tell them that we're gonna post this event, da da da, and then we'll just block them all up.
(16:10):
Like, that was my solution.
Bradley Waldrop (16:11):
Wow.
Ann Lindholm (16:12):
Not only did I not like Islam, but I also thought that all Muslims were demonic, were Satanists, and were evil.
Bradley Waldrop (16:20):
Sure.
Ann Lindholm (16:22):
We were gonna move, and I was gonna move to Florida and be even more so with my team and all the things.
And then my husband at the time said, well, we're actually gonna go to Texas.
I fought it, prayed, and God made it very clear, this is what you're doing. Okay.
So we moved to Texas.
We get a little small break of branch, in a little wrong neighborhood.
(16:45):
I'm now separated more so from my team.
And for the next 5 years, in September things happen in September.
In September of 2012, I made a decision.
I wanna know your truth, god.
I'm tired of the Bible studies.
I'm tired of man telling me.
(17:06):
I'm tired of all these things because I'm seeing inconsistencies, and I'm really
see in some churches where people are teaching
people, you know, praying out these really long flowery prayers and all these things and, like,
just all these things that don't, like, make sense.
(17:28):
And I'm not seeing that in the bible.
When you healed someone, you literally said be healed and they were healed.
You didn't do this, put on this show and and all the things.
And so I was like, I just wanna know your truth.
And I also wanna know your truth about Muslims and all the things because right now, I literally hate them all.
I knew that it was becoming a problem.
And so I made a commitment that I was gonna start every day in his word, and I wanted to hear his truth.
(17:53):
And whatever that truth was, no matter how uncomfortable, no matter how confronting, whatever,
if you show it to me, then that's what I'll submit to.
And so that began the journey of just me and the lord every single morning.
And it would last forever, still does, by the way, and I've gone through so many Bibles.
(18:18):
You know, it talks about in when Moses is is right receiving the 10 Commandments.
And there's that section where it says, even though they were afraid to go up, and so they said,
well, you just go what?
Because we're afraid because no one stands in the presence of god and lives.
Bradley Waldrop (18:34):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (18:37):
I would suggest that's extremely accurate.
There is never a day that I can sit in the presence of the Lord reading his living word
and not walk away unchanged.
Bradley Waldrop (18:55):
Agree.
Ann Lindholm (18:56):
And every single day, I'm confronted with other aspects of my heart that have not yet been rendered that need to be.
And so so that process began in September of 2012, and then we moved to Missouri in 2016, and
(19:20):
some more things started happening.
Some things within some really deep bible belt church stuff, encountered some things, started
falling for a lot of the prosperity gospel stuff and a lot just a lot more other charismatic
things that that I was, you know, being told and taught and convinced that this is how it is.
(19:42):
I began to challenge some things because I wasn't seeing things in the Bible.
I've been kicked out of a couple of churches for a couple of reasons, mostly because of challenging and asking the questions.
I've been told I have disagree with leadership styles while it's that, you know and also I was
(20:03):
told because of my political views and my views with America.
I had become extremely patriotic.
I was very much America is the greatest thing since sliced bread and all the things, except
that the more I sit in the presence of the lord, the more that I dive into the word, and the
more I sit and receive truth from him, the more I realized I was so confronted when COVID hit.
(20:31):
Man, there's so many things that we could talk about.
In November of 2019, I'm sitting in my study and this was in the evening.
And I there was just this ominous, dark, really terrible feeling.
I'm like, what is going on?
I didn't know what it was at the time.
And all I knew because I felt the Lord telling me, you need to press in deeper and you need to hear my voice.
(20:55):
Listen to me and know my voice.
COVID hits and all these things and the mask mandate.
I could not wait to go out in public and go into the grocery stores because I wanted to go out
there without a mask and I dare you tell me to wear a mask.
Because it's my right to not wear a mask. Like, I couldn't wait. Oh, boy. Did he wow.
(21:22):
So I'm sitting in my study one morning, and this is all really important.
I'm sitting in my study one morning and I get stuck at Romans 15.
Bradley Waldrop (21:29):
K.
Ann Lindholm (21:30):
And I read the whole chapter, but two phrases jumped off those pages.
And for 3 and a half hours, he did not seek to please himself, and he became a servant.
So I'm sitting there whispering and repeating and meditating and contemplating, and just over
and over, he did not seek to please himself.
He did not seek to please this is Jesus.
(21:51):
This is the lord of lords. Okay.
He did not see okay. He became a servant.
The king of kings and the lord the king Mhmm.
Of kings and the lord of lords became a star he he came down from his throne and he became a servant.
Why would he do that?
And so I'm just going through all these questions.
Do I seek to please myself? No.
(22:13):
Am I being a servant to others or and I and it just got really ugly.
Bradley Waldrop (22:17):
Sure.
Ann Lindholm (22:18):
And I wept. I wept.
And and I'm like, but but it's not right. Okay?
You go back in the word, and I want you to come back and tell me show me all the scriptures
where I've told you that you're supposed to fight for your personal rights. I'm like, it's everywhere. Okay. Show me.
Bradley Waldrop (22:35):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (22:35):
Fine. Like, couple of weeks later, I come back, and I'm like
so it's not in there.
Bradley Waldrop (22:43):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (22:43):
There's, like
Bradley Waldrop (22:46):
Oh, no.
This is not
Ann Lindholm (22:52):
home joined.
Bradley Waldrop (22:56):
Okay. You're back.
Ann Lindholm (22:56):
There you are. Yeah. Yeah.
And so he just walked me through so much, and he's like, you don't know what these people are going through.
You don't know why they believe what they believe.
You don't know if maybe they have a 4 year old at home. It's stage 4 leukemia.
Maybe their mother, maybe their parents are dying from you don't know.
Maybe they've been convinced that COVID is you don't know.
Bradley Waldrop (23:20):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (23:22):
And it doesn't matter.
Bradley Waldrop (23:23):
Mhmm.
Ann Lindholm (23:24):
You were to seek to please others first and to serve others.
That's what that's what my son Jesus did, and that's what I expect you to do.
And I'm like, but but but he's like, nope.
And so that was a big turning point for me.
And then octo not October.
January 6th, the instruction at the Capitol, I would have been one of the ones busting glass.
Bradley Waldrop (23:46):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (23:47):
I had friends face Timing me live from the Capitol.
Bradley Waldrop (23:50):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (23:51):
I would have been one of the ones if he had not rescued me.
And he made me realize, yes, America is is a great nation. That's true. It's not the greatest.
And it will fall just like all the other nations will fall, you know.
And so he's just really brought me through so much. I mean, really has.
And in that process back in Texas on that small ranch, he really softened my heart for the,
(24:16):
for the for the Muslim community.
And then also, oh, November 29 2019, I saw a documentary.
I came across a documentary called, sheep among wolves.
I I don't know if you've seen it or not.
Bradley Waldrop (24:28):
I have.
Ann Lindholm (24:29):
Oh my gosh. I was floored. I couldn't sit down.
I just I stood and watched this documentary multiple times.
And I knew deep in my spirit I'm gonna have something to do with that. Afghanistan falls.
August 2021, a former colleague reaches out.
We are inundated with request for help. Can you help? Yes.
(24:54):
For for 6 weeks solid, almost 17 hours a day, a 100% volunteering when I really needed a job
and was going through separation.
Bradley Waldrop (25:02):
Oh.
Ann Lindholm (25:05):
I I was volunteering for helping with Afghan rescues.
And by the way, right before that started, I was sitting in my study, Psalm 27 4 is above the
fireplace, and I just kept begging god.
I knew I had to get a job because I was about to be divorced at at some point soon, and I needed
to figure out how am I gonna serve you know, provide for my family.
I said, god, that's what I want right there. It's Psalm 27 4.
(25:27):
If I can do that and provide for my family, please make that that's what I want.
And so I do this volunteer for 6 weeks, and I get a phone call from the from the lead guy.
And he says, so, Al, that's what they call me.
You've done a phenomenal job.
How would you like to get paid for what you're doing?
Bradley Waldrop (25:46):
What?
Ann Lindholm (25:47):
And I'm like, cool.
Bradley Waldrop (25:49):
That sounds
Ann Lindholm (25:50):
great. Sitting here thinking I'm thinking kind of a minor amount. Right?
Which I was gonna take.
And he gets me in touch with the head guy and we talk and he's like, well, what salary do you require?
And I paused and hesitated, which by the way is rule 101 of negotiating.
You never could be the first one to give the number.
And, and so then he throws something out there, and I'm like I don't have my degree, by the
(26:13):
way, because I quit again because I had to raise my kids and homeschool.
Bradley Waldrop (26:16):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (26:16):
Which I did. I'm actually back in school now, and I'm a year away from completing my bachelor's.
And I've now switched to international relations and global security.
And so that was the beginning of that.
And so that started in September of 2021.
And since then, I have been running teams, ground teams and and things in the Middle East, developing
(26:38):
and managing safe houses, rescuing persecuted people, for all kinds of reasons, whether they
worked with US coalition forces, because of their faith, whatever. Maybe they're gay.
Whatever it is, they're being hunted by the Taliban or whatever.
And so operating in multiple countries in the Middle East and throughout Europe, and it's just kind of grown.
(27:00):
And so now, we saw a lot of corruption in the organizations, and so our my team and I, we've
started our own organization, our own nonprofit.
Global agents of change, dot org is our nonprofit, and then our for profit is Key of David Consulting.
And so that brings us to where we are today.
And in this process, through all of these travels in the Middle East and all this time that
(27:20):
I've spent with Muslims, it is the very people that I grew to hate Yeah.
That are the ones that have actually thrust me into a deeper intimacy with the Lord because they would ask me.
And by the way, through discovery bible study, processes, and I can share more about that later.
It's just a very it's an inquisitive of bible.
As you you read the text and you ask certain questions, you never tell anybody what to think,
(27:44):
what to believe, or anything like that, and it led many Muslims to the lord.
In fact, several in our safe house is still very high prominent men who who were in the government
and things like that and are now discipling other community members and family members from the safe house.
And, but they would ask questions.
(28:06):
My partners, my colleagues would ask questions like, yeah.
Well, we believe in Jesus too, but, like, you think he's God, don't you? I'm like, well, yeah.
And they're like, well, why do you believe he's God? Show me.
And I'm like, well, yeah. It's easy.
And they're like, well, show me scriptures. I'm like, okay.
And I come back and I'm like, okay.
So there's not really, like, scriptures that just come straight away and say Jesus is God.
(28:27):
There's, like, maybe 1 or 2 that kind of allude to it.
And so what did that do?
That thrust me into an investigative journey.
Bradley Waldrop (28:35):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (28:35):
And I had to go figure out for myself, why do I believe Jesus is God?
Bradley Waldrop (28:40):
Yeah. And let let let me ask you in the only because you I think you shared with me, through your application.
We're not talking about a few rescues.
We're not talking about a couple dozen. Right?
The the the the rescues there's a there are a lot of lives that you've touched.
(29:03):
How many?
Ann Lindholm (29:05):
Praise god.
Bradley Waldrop (29:06):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (29:07):
I don't even know. I don't even know.
And and it's and it's not, like, it's not me.
It's not anything, but all I did was say yes. Right?
Bradley Waldrop (29:17):
Yeah. Which And it's which is fascinating for me because I get a chance to watch, at least,
the sketch that you've laid out of one act of obedience after another in which you didn't know
what was gonna come next.
And then when you it based on what I hear from you, I don't wanna put words in your mouth.
(29:38):
When you're confronted by something that doesn't make sense, instead of sitting down and asking
somebody else explain it to me, you're saying, no, no, no.
I need to go figure this out by myself.
The Lord and I have to spend some time together to get down to the truth rather than being influenced
by the other people who are around me.
(29:58):
And that takes a takes a level of discipline and tenacity and and love for this relationship
that you do have with the Lord to honor what it is he already wrote down for us. That's fascinating for me. For people who
Ann Lindholm (30:16):
It's kinda scary.
Bradley Waldrop (30:17):
It's really scary. And I you know, it's interesting because because there's this very interesting
friction for those people who have been incredibly obedient.
The the sense of unease and discomfort comes across as as fear, yet yet at the same time incredibly
(30:38):
confident in the power of God and the call on your life. Right?
It's a very strange thing to try to explain to someone Yamaguchi.
Ann Lindholm (30:49):
I don't know that I would say confident. No. Courageous. Well Courageous.
I I don't I don't know what to call it to be honest with you. That's okay.
There there there are so many days that I mean, especially right now.
I mean, look, my team is having to start over from scratch.
My team has worked together for almost 4 years that we were working for other or 2 other organizations.
(31:13):
And again, I'm not gonna go into all of those things. Sure.
Some really great people in there.
The, the in in fact, from the Saw documentary, if you recall, the the Iranian pastor whose head
was covered and his Iranian wife, he's he is probably the most prominent mentor of mine.
He has been one of the most profound key figures in my life these last three and a half years.
(31:37):
He is someone who has always spoken truth to me even when it's uncomfortable to hear.
Bradley Waldrop (31:43):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (31:45):
He has stood by my side to, you know, to kinda be there when I have these raw hard questions
and will speak the truth.
And if I stray, like, I mean, he like, he's, you know, he speaks it and he's like, yeah.
But you you're wrong on this.
Bradley Waldrop (32:02):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (32:03):
I'm like, okay. Show me why or whatever.
But, in in this season, we've gone through some major transition, extreme betrayal.
And when I say betrayal, I mean betrayal of the worst kind. Look.
We're never betrayed by somebody we don't know.
Betrayal comes from someone that you know, that you trust, and that you care for and love. Yeah.
Bradley Waldrop (32:24):
You the the the mere definition of betrayal is that if the somebody doesn't know you, they can't betray you.
Ann Lindholm (32:30):
Yeah. Right.
Bradley Waldrop (32:31):
But the most intimate can.
Ann Lindholm (32:34):
That's right. And so we have experienced extreme betrayal from within the Christian community.
Bradley Waldrop (32:39):
Sure.
Ann Lindholm (32:40):
And so, you know
Bradley Waldrop (32:45):
Come back to me, Anne.
Ann Lindholm (32:49):
I went home joined. This occurred, and so we're having to start from scratch.
I don't have an income since June.
Bradley Waldrop (32:58):
Okay.
Ann Lindholm (32:59):
And I've decided to go back to school.
Bradley Waldrop (33:00):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (33:01):
And I've just started decided to launch a business and a nonprofit.
To say that it's not scary
Bradley Waldrop (33:07):
That part's scary
Ann Lindholm (33:08):
for sure. It is. And to say that no.
Every day, I'm like, god, what are you doing?
Like, I know that this is what and and if you look.
There are people who will tell me, you you just need to go get a job or whatever.
Bradley Waldrop (33:25):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (33:25):
And I'm like, I hear you, and I understand that that's what makes sense.
Bradley Waldrop (33:29):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (33:29):
I've submitted over a 100 resumes.
Bradley Waldrop (33:32):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (33:33):
And I've been turned down from jobs that it does not make sense.
Bradley Waldrop (33:38):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (33:39):
And then I was actually selected for a government position that the process keeps getting pushed back.
Like, it's like every day, I'm like, god, what are you doing?
Bradley Waldrop (33:51):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (33:51):
When things don't make sense, when when they should.
Bradley Waldrop (33:56):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (33:57):
My first question is, what are you doing, god? Yeah.
And so I understand that from the outside looking in, I should just go get a job.
But again, it comes back to the last 4 months, the amount of time that I've spent networking
and connecting with other people who have been very key to everything that's happening right now.
(34:20):
If I had just gotten a job Yeah.
I wouldn't have met these people.
Bradley Waldrop (34:24):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (34:24):
And I know that each of them play a very dynamic role in whatever it is he's doing.
But back to your point, every day, I'm like, this is so uncomfortable.
Like, I don't have the faith for this. I'm really scared.
I don't know what is next.
I don't know, like and there had been some times where I'm like, I'm literally I've never had a panic attack.
I've made fun of people.
(34:45):
That's the dumbest thing I've ever had.
I'm like, oh my gosh. They're so real.
Bradley Waldrop (34:48):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (34:48):
And I'm like, I literally think I'm having a heart attack.
I don't know how I'm gonna pay my bills.
Bradley Waldrop (34:53):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (34:55):
It's it's a scary thing.
Bradley Waldrop (34:57):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (34:58):
But I know that he's doing something. Yeah.
Like, I know that the amount of time that I've spent in the East and and and learning these
languages and learning the cultures, and I don't know what it is. Probably, I don't. And it's very uncomfortable.
Bradley Waldrop (35:12):
Yeah. Yeah. For from a from a guy who I don't know how much of your my story you know, but from
a guy who was told by God to go sell everything that doesn't fit into 2 pods, 1 SUV, go across
the country, And without a friend, without a job, and without a plan, and 2 young kids, I get it.
(35:37):
You have more going on than I did, and and and I think that you also have a a lot clearer indication
of what god wants you to do right now than than I had based on what I'm hearing. That's all. I I I
Ann Lindholm (35:53):
I don't know about that. Okay.
Bradley Waldrop (35:55):
I don't
Ann Lindholm (35:56):
know about that. I just Yeah.
Bradley Waldrop (35:57):
I don't
Ann Lindholm (35:57):
know. And which, by the way, I'm I'm selling my house. Like, I'm Yeah.
I'm in the process of selling there's yeah.
There's, like, all these things.
And all these people are, like, well, why would you do that?
Look, I have a VA loan, and it's in a it's a phenomenal rate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And why would you Yeah.
Bradley Waldrop (36:11):
Right. I'm like None of this none of this makes any logical sense to anybody else except for
where I heard very clearly that this is what God wanted me to do.
So I'm going to do it. Okay.
Ann Lindholm (36:21):
And I don't even know that I can confidently say that except that I just have this, like, I don't I'm one person.
Bradley Waldrop (36:30):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (36:30):
I don't need 32 100 square feet. Nope.
I look, the amount of time that I've spent in the Middle East, like, I've just really come I
have had such a transition of perspective. Mhmm.
We are so spoiled and we live in such a bubble.
So many people have these misperceptions and stereotypical viewpoints of so many things happening
(36:50):
in the world and many people have never even left their state. Yep.
And so that's one of the projects that I'm working on is a cultural wellness.
I've actually already developed it.
It's, and it's been launched, finding hanasa.com, and it's a cultural wellness course.
Bradley Waldrop (37:05):
Cool.
Ann Lindholm (37:06):
I'm hoping that employers will use this for their, employees who are maybe struggling to get
along with other, coworkers and stuff.
Bradley Waldrop (37:14):
Sure.
Ann Lindholm (37:15):
For whatever reason, all kinds of differences. Right?
But, in all of in in all of these last 4 years, I've just really come to realize I thought I
knew a lot of stuff.
Bradley Waldrop (37:26):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (37:26):
I thought I knew Islam, which which I look, Islam is still there anyway, I thought I knew Muslims. Oh my gosh.
Do you know there are so many Muslims that look, when I was in where was I? It Turkey or Cyprus.
I think it was in Cyprus.
And, the call to prayer comes out, you know, and, like, we had been there for a couple of weeks,
(37:49):
and not one time had we seen one person stop
Bradley Waldrop (37:52):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (37:53):
And pray during the call to prayer.
Mind you, this is 5 times a day.
And so we're in this old in an old town, in this old Venetian palace, and we're outdoors and
the call to prayer comes.
And then all of a sudden, they break the call to prayer and they just start saying something.
I'm like, oh, that was interesting. What was that?
I'm like, I'm ready to get bombed. What was going on? And, nobody moved.
(38:15):
And so I see this table of guys, there's 5 guys, and so I walk over, and I said, to the the
guy that seemed like the leader, I was, like, can I can I ask you something, like, what did what just happened there?
He's like, oh, somebody died, and they were just paying respects to them and just, you know, kinda talking about it. I'm like, oh, okay.
Can I ask you another question?
Why don't I ever see anyone stopping to pray
Bradley Waldrop (38:38):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (38:38):
During the call to prayer?
And they just started laughing so hard.
And they're like, we didn't give an about Islam.
And I was like, oh. Okay. I'm like, okay.
And and it was and I was like, really?
It's like, what do you mean?
He's like, you wanna have a seat?
And I was like, yeah.
And they're like, let me go get some talking. So he turkey. Oh my gosh. Turkish coffee. So we're sitting.
(38:59):
We have 2 Christian people sitting with nominal Muslims Yeah.
In a Venetian Palace drinking Turkish tea, and we're talking about politics, we're talking about
religion. 1 of them is studying the Torah. 1 of them is 2 of them were studying the Bible. 1
of them is agnostic, and the other one is a pretty devout Muslim, but still doesn't stop to
(39:19):
pray because he doesn't wanna be told what to do and when to pray.
And I'm like, wait a minute. Wow.
Bradley Waldrop (39:26):
Wow. That had to have been quite a surprise of the irony in it. Right?
It just sort of drips.
Ann Lindholm (39:33):
I'm like, everything I've ever been told is just was just blown up right here. Yeah.
Bradley Waldrop (39:37):
That's the velvet dress. Right?
You just you it had the upper has no clothes.
You just you just completely, you know, you you disclosed all of the magic tricks right there. It was all done. Oh, that's crazy.
So let me let me ask you.
I mean, one one thing is for those people who are are watching this or listening, I want them
to be able to figure out how to get a hold of you and be able to help.
(39:59):
So that's that's the first thing I want to do.
And then second is, I would love to hear where you see this in in 5 or so years.
I'm not here to have you, you know, sort of, you know, do any sort of prophecy here at all.
I'm I'm I think that God's probably put something really strong on your heart of something that
(40:23):
he would like for you to be able to do, and I'm just curious what that is.
Ann Lindholm (40:30):
So first thing, there are a number of ways that people can reach out
Bradley Waldrop (40:34):
Yeah. To
Ann Lindholm (40:34):
me and to my team.
It's it's this is not the Anne show.
It's not just about me.
I can't none of this is possible without my team.
My ground team is phenomenal.
But, global agents of change dot org. K. Finding hanasa.com
Bradley Waldrop (40:51):
k.
Ann Lindholm (40:51):
Is the cultural awareness course, and I'll be adding other courses as well.
And then key of David consulting.com is our global security, consulting firm.
Bradley Waldrop (41:01):
K.
Ann Lindholm (41:02):
His his publishing house.com is where you can find some of my books. Not a big deal.
It's maybe some other stuff will be added later.
There is a blog that has a lot of a lot of good, articles and things just kind of from my time sitting with the Lord.
Good. 5 years from now, I literally have no idea. That's
Bradley Waldrop (41:23):
why I was a little afraid to ask this question.
No norm normally normally, I can tell when someone is pretty confident of what's gonna happen.
And for you, I I I I really kind of expected you to say, I don't know, but wherever God's gonna
want me, that's where I'm gonna be.
Ann Lindholm (41:41):
Yeah. Look, my mom my mom passed away in November.
Bradley Waldrop (41:44):
I'm sorry. Here.
Ann Lindholm (41:44):
Thank God for the job that I had. She had dementia, Alzheimer's. Yeah.
And, I was able to go and be with her for the last 4 to 6 weeks and and take care of her.
I was there with her when she died.
My hand was on her chest
Bradley Waldrop (41:58):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (41:58):
When she took her last breath and all the things.
And, in that process, and I used to also be a hospice sitter.
I've in imminent, so I would sit with patients until they actually died because I didn't have
family to sit with them and all the things.
I was there with my father-in-law when he died.
So I've seen a lot of death and, like, all the things.
And but especially with my mom and just seeing how things just kinda went back.
(42:24):
Every the world kept going.
Like and and my oldest brother, he basically died twice.
He went into cardiac arrest twice. Wow.
And as I was driving down to Dallas to go see him and he was still in a coma, like, the world's still moving.
Bradley Waldrop (42:40):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (42:40):
And so there's all these profound moments for me, especially in the since November. And I'm like, okay. The world keeps going.
It literally doesn't care if I'm alive or not.
I don't know when I'll take my last breath.
I have way too much stuff that I don't need.
(43:00):
I've seen the way they live in the Middle East and in Europe, which by the way, one of the other
things I've learned is how much they honor individuals, how much they honor family and community Yeah. And relationship Yeah.
And how much we don't.
Bradley Waldrop (43:14):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (43:14):
I've learned so much from being in the Middle East.
And so I don't know where I will live when my house I literally don't know.
Everybody's asked me my kids have asked me, where are you gonna live when you sell that? I'm not real sure.
Bradley Waldrop (43:27):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (43:27):
I have some friends in Greece.
I have some friends in Italy. I I don't know.
I really don't know where I'm going.
What I know is I'm 49 years old.
I won't be 50 in February.
And I don't want to ever live my life again in such a way that I don't have in mind.
(43:51):
I don't know if I will have my take my next breath or not.
I don't want to work just to survive.
I want to live on purpose with intention, and I want to be a global agent of change who will
go out, engage, equip, and empower others to promote global security, stability, and peace as
(44:13):
far as it depends on us.
That's what I wanna do with the rest of my life. How long is that? I don't know. Where will that be? I don't know.
Bradley Waldrop (44:21):
That's amazing. If you were if you were to give the folks that are watching or listening to
this one bit of advice that you've learned in this entire crucible that you have been in, what would it be?
Ann Lindholm (44:35):
Never trust, always verify. I love it.
Stop believing everything you see in here, because it's probably not even close to the truth,
especially when it comes to about other people.
Bradley Waldrop (44:48):
I that's that's amazing. I really, really appreciate you sharing your story, and I can see God
very clearly working through you it's amazing to watch I'm I'm encouraged by your tenacity and
your obedience I I I can't exactly put myself into your shoes.
(45:11):
I can put myself into similar
Ann Lindholm (45:13):
I'm not always obedient. Okay.
So I just sort of I just wanna make sure that people know, like, I'm not putting myself far from perfect. Yeah.
Bradley Waldrop (45:23):
Well, I I think I think that the people who are watching and listening probably know that it's not perfect.
I mean, that's the hope. Right?
Is that that that because even though we are not
Ann Lindholm (45:33):
It's very messy.
Bradley Waldrop (45:34):
Yeah. Life is messy. And and and our faith is messy too. Right?
There's no there's no perfection
Ann Lindholm (45:40):
in it. And and And that's, oh, that's the other thing. This is so important. Ask him the questions. Ask the freaking questions.
He's not afraid of you and he can handle your questions.
He can handle your doubt.
He can handle your confusion. He really can't.
Quit asking everybody else about him and just go straight to him and ask him.
(46:03):
Why did you kill the firstborn of all those people that were innocent?
What what was what was up with that?
How was that in your character?
Like, that doesn't make any sense to me. Who created sickness?
It wasn't Satan because if he did, then that means you didn't create all things and you said you created all things.
Well, how do I feel about the fact that you created sickness and you love it? Yeah.
Like, ask him the questions.
Bradley Waldrop (46:24):
Yeah. Those are great questions, and and I appreciate you empowering everybody to do that and and sort of pushing.
Because without that sort of inquisitive nature, it's hard for us to have a real honest open relationship with Christ anyway. Right?
And those are the kinds
Ann Lindholm (46:40):
of things suggest that you don't.
If you're not asking those questions Yeah.
You're probably not in a valid intimate relationship.
Bradley Waldrop (46:49):
I couldn't have said it any better.
I think we're done with the interview. Thank you very much.
Thank you for joining us on testimonies of triumph.
We hope today's story inspired and encouraged you to see God's hand at work in your life.
(47:11):
A special thank you to our amazing engineers and production team at Wall Drop Communications
for making this show possible. Until next time.
Keep walking in faith and remember, God's grace is with you every step of the way.
Afghanistan falls. August 2021, a former colleague reaches out.
We are inundated with request for help. Can you help? Yes.
For for 6 weeks solid, almost 17 hours a day, a 100% volunteering when I really needed a job
and was going through separation.
Bradley Waldrop (00:19):
Oh.
Ann Lindholm (00:22):
I I was volunteering for helping with Afghan rescues.
And by the way, right before that started, I was sitting in my study.
Psalm 27 4 is above the fireplace, and I just kept begging God.
I knew I had to get a job because I was about to be divorced at at some point soon, and I needed
to figure out how am I gonna serve you know, provide for my family.
I said, God, that's what I want right there. It's Psalm 27 4.
(00:45):
If I can do that and provide for my family, please make that that's what I want.
And so I do this volunteer for 6 weeks, and I get a phone call from the from the lead guy.
And he says, so, Al, that's what they call me, you've done a phenomenal job.
How would you like to get paid for what you're doing?
Bradley Waldrop (01:07):
Welcome to testimonies of triumph where real stories of faith come to life.
In each episode, we share powerful testimonies of how God transforms trials into triumphs, bringing
hope and redemption to everyday lives.
Whether you're seeking encouragement, wisdom, or inspiration, you'll hear how God is working
(01:28):
today, turning even the darkest moments into stories of victory.
Now, let's dive into today's episode and witness the incredible power of God's grace in action.
Well, Anne, welcome to testimonies of triumph.
(01:51):
Well, you and I don't know each other.
Jordan is here as well, and we're going to sort of just sit back and listen.
And, I know a little bit about what you're gonna talk about, and I'm fascinated.
So, if you could do me a favor and just give us a little bit of a backstory though before you
sort of dive in deep where God showed up and all these other really cool thing all the other really cool things happen.
(02:15):
Like, you know, where did Anne come from, and and what what was life like early on in life,
and, and kinda what were the circumstances that led up to where you are now and, kind of, the
things that you've seen along the way?
Ann Lindholm (02:29):
You said we have how long?
Bradley Waldrop (02:31):
Yeah. Take whatever time you need.
So for everybody in the audience, just kick back and relax. I know. I know. Just kidding.
Ann Lindholm (02:39):
I don't know. I'm like, wait.
What am I talking about? Yeah.
I was born and raised Roman Catholic. I'm Sicilian.
There's German on my mom's side.
I've always been a free spirited, inquisitive,
(03:02):
truth seeker
Bradley Waldrop (03:03):
k.
Ann Lindholm (03:03):
Defender of the vulnerable and the weak, you might say.
I I guess that to give the the fullest picture and the quickest amount of time, went to Catholic school, all the things. Right?
I had a child out of wedlock at 19.
(03:25):
I didn't I wanna really watch what I say because I don't wanna stay things in it.
Bradley Waldrop (03:32):
I get it.
Ann Lindholm (03:33):
I left the Catholic church.
Bradley Waldrop (03:35):
Fine.
We're not here to bash anybody. I mean Exactly. Right?
This this is God's Exactly.
Ann Lindholm (03:43):
That's why I wanna be.
Bradley Waldrop (03:44):
Yeah. This is God's story.
Just tell just tell God's story.
It'll all work itself out.
Ann Lindholm (03:49):
Yeah. And so I had a child at at a at a at 19.
I was lived a very colorful life for about 5, 6 years, maybe in my, early adult years, and there's
a lot of other things in that.
I did have, and, again, and out of respect for certain individuals, I was pressured.
(04:11):
I'm not gonna name names or anything like that.
I was pressured that if I were to get pregnant again to have an abortion.
I did get pregnant again.
I did have an abortion because that voice spoke louder in my head than the voice of God.
During my younger years, friends of mine, I did enter public school in 4th grade of the week,
(04:35):
and friends of mine gave me bibles and things like that.
And so I would read and then when I would see what was being taught at at Catholic school or
Catholic church, I'm like, I'm not really seeing that.
Like, I'm not sure where the, like, where's the holy water for in the, you know, when you get
to the door and you and all the things and all the aerobics and the sit in the fuse and all the stuff.
(04:55):
Like, where is all this stuff?
And then there were a bunch of other things that I wasn't really seeing, and so I just had a lot of questions.
And so, so then I entered that kind of rebellious phase and, and then had the child, had the abortion.
I was seeing my oldest I'm the youngest of 4.
I was seeing my oldest and his wife and their family and the way they were living, and they
(05:19):
just always seemed very joyful, peaceful, balanced.
Like, they just kinda seem to have their stuff together.
And I was like, what is like, why are y'all so different? What is going on?
They invited me to church with my daughter, who at that time would have been to.
They also gave me my first, like, I call it a real study bible.
(05:41):
Again, I don't mean to be offensive.
For me, it was a real study bible.
It was not a Catholic bible.
It was a real study bible that, you know, whatever. Yeah.
And I devoured that thing.
I tore that thing up, and I still have it.
And it's held together by some bands.
I have many bibles like that.
And so I went as a broken individual, and in September of 1996, the abortion was in June.
(06:08):
September of 1996, I believe is the correct date. I could be off.
During a worship service, I felt the worship leader call out that there was somebody out there
that needed to get up to the front.
I knew immediately it was me, except that my I found my feet, you know, stuck in these blocks
of cement, and I couldn't really go anywhere.
(06:30):
And he called out a second time, and I'm like, I can't move.
I felt tangible things taking place in within my spirit.
I didn't know what this was. Right? I got no idea. The third call.
I'm like up at that altar and in front of, like, 400 strangers, I am just weeping and bawling
and just over and over, you know, god, please forgive me. Please forgive me.
(06:58):
I honestly I I'm not sure that I knew that forgiveness was available for me at that point because,
like, I and and again, I hadn't really ever walked with the Lord.
Bradley Waldrop (07:11):
Sure.
Ann Lindholm (07:11):
Right? Like, I knew God. I I knew God. I knew about God.
And listen, I had dreams as a little girl that God gave me, like, dreams that I've written down and stuff.
And so I know he spoke to me, but I don't know that I was ever actually, like, walking with him.
And what I mean by that is, like, actually following him and submitting to him. Right?
(07:33):
And so I I didn't really know that forgiveness was available for me maybe.
Bradley Waldrop (07:39):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (07:40):
And all I knew is I I I knew that what I had done was wrong.
And I was disgusted and felt so ashamed, and I knew it was nothing that, sorry.
I it still is emotional.
I think you get over stuff.
(08:01):
And so I I knew I couldn't take it back.
I knew that it was something that I had done that that it was done.
Bradley Waldrop (08:09):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (08:11):
And my brother and sister-in-law pretty quickly were up in the front with me, and I'm just crying
out, begging him to forgive me, and she has whispers in my ear and something he already has.
And it was, like, all of a sudden, this huge wind was just lifted.
And and I'm literally bawling and weeping and laughing hysterically all at the same time because
(08:34):
I feel so just so much joy and so much love.
Bradley Waldrop (08:38):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (08:39):
That was the beginning of my walk with the Lord, of my real walk.
This was no longer just an investigative project.
Bradley Waldrop (08:48):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (08:48):
It was now an intimate relationship that started. Mhmm.
And so I would say that is the beginning literally of where I am now.
Bradley Waldrop (09:02):
So look, I I appreciate the tenderness around some of this other stuff.
I can tell you I grew up a Lutheran kid, which is Catholic light.
And I had similar experiences where I would walk into a different denomination and try to understand
why it is I wasn't kneeling or standing or, you know, why didn't we have the hymnal that everybody
(09:24):
else has seems to have.
I I I get it.
This this very intimate relationship that you have is a very special thing, and I I appreciate
you sharing the vulnerability of being there and just being totally broken.
And in that surrender, we get a chance to see God's grace come in, and and you have this this neat relationship.
(09:51):
A lot has happened in your life since then.
What are some highlights that might be interesting for other people to know about you other
than this face to face experience you had?
Ann Lindholm (10:05):
Yeah. So I will say, I at some point, and I a lot of things are kind of blurry as far as, like,
specific dates and things like that. I remember events.
I don't necessarily necessarily remember dates.
I'm I'm doing great to remember my 4 children's birthdays.
Bradley Waldrop (10:22):
I get it.
Ann Lindholm (10:24):
But, I went to school to college, and I I was going for a psychology degree.
My first two courses were sociology and psychology.
Absolutely loved the heck out of those courses, did great.
During the research project, I came across what was called the Ikhwan website, which is the Muslim Brotherhood website.
(10:47):
Internet is extremely new at this point. K.
What I saw I I wasn't looking for it at all.
And what I saw was extremely disturbing.
Bradley Waldrop (11:00):
Mhmm.
Ann Lindholm (11:04):
It was all in Arabic.
I didn't know what exactly it was, except that I knew that it was bad.
And somehow I knew that, like, okay, this is, like, I'm not sure what this is.
I was intrigued by it.
I spent some time there, and I just kinda knew where I had a feeling somehow this was gonna come back.
I this I I needed I was gonna remember that I saw this.
(11:27):
Fast forward a lot and, end up getting married.
I married, the my manager at the personal training gym, and 911 happened.
And then when the second tower fell, like, I my mind was already back at that website, and I
(11:52):
already knew who did it.
Bradley Waldrop (11:54):
Wow.
Ann Lindholm (11:55):
And I immediately started going back and researching and that remember I told you, I've always
had, like, this investigative, like, mindset.
I I'm always I've always been inquisitive, and so I really went just on an investigative journey
of who are these people and all the things.
(12:15):
And again, I may there there will be people out there who will say, I know it's not true because
that was it was the mistake. Yes.
I might get some dates wrong, but the things actually happened.
They may be out of order or whatever.
Bradley Waldrop (12:25):
I get it.
Ann Lindholm (12:27):
We were stationed on the East Coast. Oh, so 911 happens.
The husband can't really stay on the sidelines, all the fenings. He signs up.
He had to go through all these waivers and all the stuff.
He ends up going because of his age, all these things, and he becomes, a ranger, with 175 and
is in special operations for 9 years.
Works for station on East Coast, Hunter Army Airfield.
(12:49):
I get very heavily, politically involved.
All of this research that's happening, I'm seeing all the things that are happening in our country.
I'm the typical white American, evangelical, Christian, blah blah blah.
Got very sucked into the poll, that whole scene.
(13:09):
I started briefing legislators on political issues.
I am one of the ones who actually read the entire Obamacare legislation, all, like, 13,000 pages, whatever it is.
Bradley Waldrop (13:21):
You have the patience of Job.
Ann Lindholm (13:24):
It's not the patience. It's it it is that inquisitive I I needed to know what was in things. Yes. Yeah.
And so the things that are in there, it's asked me later. Okay. It was a
Bradley Waldrop (13:35):
Be a different episode.
Ann Lindholm (13:37):
Anyway yeah. So through this whole process, I'm breaking legislators. I'm I'm holding conferences.
I'm speaking to crowds of over 5,000 at TV parties and all the things and, like, you know, just
and my research in the Islamic threat became a major focus and key theme of the work that I was doing.
(13:59):
God started introducing me to people, connecting me to people all along the way.
You have to remember, I left college, when I started having kid I I had to be a single mom for
a while, and I just there was no way I could do it.
During this time, started having kids, we're stationed on the East Coast.
I went back to school.
Now I switched over to homeland security, counterterrorism homeland security degree.
(14:24):
And so now all of this research, all these connections, it's like, have you ever you look back,
you're like, oh my gosh.
And you start seeing, like, all the things that are connected and these people, you're like,
okay, I met this person 10 years ago.
I'll make this person 5, dah, dah,
Bradley Waldrop (14:38):
dah. You can't make it up.
Ann Lindholm (14:39):
These nodes.
Bradley Waldrop (14:40):
Yeah. You
Ann Lindholm (14:40):
can't. And so there's all these nodes that are starting to look like paths that are that are
crossing and, and all the things.
And so I literally have basically this war room, if you will, where I have my walls are covered
with prominent people and connections and the lines and and, like, if anybody and and people
(15:01):
did, by the way, would walk in and they're like, what on earth?
And so through all of these connections and people, I started getting involved in some work,
with a focus on the Islamic threat to our country, especially from within our borders and especially
from within our own government.
(15:22):
I had been thrown out of chief the chief of police offices because I was exposing their connection to the Muslim brotherhood.
I've been chased by Muslims in downtown areas, and this has been the states, and all the fattings.
And so, anyway, we get to a point through this whole process, I'm getting sucked into this very
(15:44):
far right whipping evangelical mindset kind of almost cult.
Bradley Waldrop (15:49):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (15:49):
My heart has gone very, very hard towards Muslims in general.
In fact, I thought that it was a splendid idea.
Let's hold an event for Muslims at every major football stadium, and let's bring them and let's,
like, tell them that we're gonna post this event, da da da, and then we'll just block them all up.
(16:10):
Like, that was my solution.
Bradley Waldrop (16:11):
Wow.
Ann Lindholm (16:12):
Not only did I not like Islam, but I also thought that all Muslims were demonic, were Satanists, and were evil.
Bradley Waldrop (16:20):
Sure.
Ann Lindholm (16:22):
We were gonna move, and I was gonna move to Florida and be even more so with my team and all the things.
And then my husband at the time said, well, we're actually gonna go to Texas.
I fought it, prayed, and God made it very clear, this is what you're doing. Okay.
So we moved to Texas.
We get a little small break of branch, in a little wrong neighborhood.
(16:45):
I'm now separated more so from my team.
And for the next 5 years, in September things happen in September.
In September of 2012, I made a decision.
I wanna know your truth, god.
I'm tired of the Bible studies.
I'm tired of man telling me.
(17:06):
I'm tired of all these things because I'm seeing inconsistencies, and I'm really
see in some churches where people are teaching
people, you know, praying out these really long flowery prayers and all these things and, like,
just all these things that don't, like, make sense.
(17:28):
And I'm not seeing that in the bible.
When you healed someone, you literally said be healed and they were healed.
You didn't do this, put on this show and and all the things.
And so I was like, I just wanna know your truth.
And I also wanna know your truth about Muslims and all the things because right now, I literally hate them all.
I knew that it was becoming a problem.
And so I made a commitment that I was gonna start every day in his word, and I wanted to hear his truth.
(17:53):
And whatever that truth was, no matter how uncomfortable, no matter how confronting, whatever,
if you show it to me, then that's what I'll submit to.
And so that began the journey of just me and the lord every single morning.
And it would last forever, still does, by the way, and I've gone through so many Bibles.
(18:18):
You know, it talks about in when Moses is is right receiving the 10 Commandments.
And there's that section where it says, even though they were afraid to go up, and so they said,
well, you just go what?
Because we're afraid because no one stands in the presence of god and lives.
Bradley Waldrop (18:34):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (18:37):
I would suggest that's extremely accurate.
There is never a day that I can sit in the presence of the Lord reading his living word
and not walk away unchanged.
Bradley Waldrop (18:55):
Agree.
Ann Lindholm (18:56):
And every single day, I'm confronted with other aspects of my heart that have not yet been rendered that need to be.
And so so that process began in September of 2012, and then we moved to Missouri in 2016, and
(19:20):
some more things started happening.
Some things within some really deep bible belt church stuff, encountered some things, started
falling for a lot of the prosperity gospel stuff and a lot just a lot more other charismatic
things that that I was, you know, being told and taught and convinced that this is how it is.
(19:42):
I began to challenge some things because I wasn't seeing things in the Bible.
I've been kicked out of a couple of churches for a couple of reasons, mostly because of challenging and asking the questions.
I've been told I have disagree with leadership styles while it's that, you know and also I was
(20:03):
told because of my political views and my views with America.
I had become extremely patriotic.
I was very much America is the greatest thing since sliced bread and all the things, except
that the more I sit in the presence of the lord, the more that I dive into the word, and the
more I sit and receive truth from him, the more I realized I was so confronted when COVID hit.
(20:31):
Man, there's so many things that we could talk about.
In November of 2019, I'm sitting in my study and this was in the evening.
And I there was just this ominous, dark, really terrible feeling.
I'm like, what is going on?
I didn't know what it was at the time.
And all I knew because I felt the Lord telling me, you need to press in deeper and you need to hear my voice.
(20:55):
Listen to me and know my voice.
COVID hits and all these things and the mask mandate.
I could not wait to go out in public and go into the grocery stores because I wanted to go out
there without a mask and I dare you tell me to wear a mask.
Because it's my right to not wear a mask. Like, I couldn't wait. Oh, boy. Did he wow.
(21:22):
So I'm sitting in my study one morning, and this is all really important.
I'm sitting in my study one morning and I get stuck at Romans 15.
Bradley Waldrop (21:29):
K.
Ann Lindholm (21:30):
And I read the whole chapter, but two phrases jumped off those pages.
And for 3 and a half hours, he did not seek to please himself, and he became a servant.
So I'm sitting there whispering and repeating and meditating and contemplating, and just over
and over, he did not seek to please himself.
He did not seek to please this is Jesus.
(21:51):
This is the lord of lords. Okay.
He did not see okay. He became a servant.
The king of kings and the lord the king Mhmm.
Of kings and the lord of lords became a star he he came down from his throne and he became a servant.
Why would he do that?
And so I'm just going through all these questions.
Do I seek to please myself? No.
(22:13):
Am I being a servant to others or and I and it just got really ugly.
Bradley Waldrop (22:17):
Sure.
Ann Lindholm (22:18):
And I wept. I wept.
And and I'm like, but but it's not right. Okay?
You go back in the word, and I want you to come back and tell me show me all the scriptures
where I've told you that you're supposed to fight for your personal rights. I'm like, it's everywhere. Okay. Show me.
Bradley Waldrop (22:35):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (22:35):
Fine. Like, couple of weeks later, I come back, and I'm like
so it's not in there.
Bradley Waldrop (22:43):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (22:43):
There's, like
Bradley Waldrop (22:46):
Oh, no.
This is not
Ann Lindholm (22:52):
home joined.
Bradley Waldrop (22:56):
Okay. You're back.
Ann Lindholm (22:56):
There you are. Yeah. Yeah.
And so he just walked me through so much, and he's like, you don't know what these people are going through.
You don't know why they believe what they believe.
You don't know if maybe they have a 4 year old at home. It's stage 4 leukemia.
Maybe their mother, maybe their parents are dying from you don't know.
Maybe they've been convinced that COVID is you don't know.
Bradley Waldrop (23:20):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (23:22):
And it doesn't matter.
Bradley Waldrop (23:23):
Mhmm.
Ann Lindholm (23:24):
You were to seek to please others first and to serve others.
That's what that's what my son Jesus did, and that's what I expect you to do.
And I'm like, but but but he's like, nope.
And so that was a big turning point for me.
And then octo not October.
January 6th, the instruction at the Capitol, I would have been one of the ones busting glass.
Bradley Waldrop (23:46):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (23:47):
I had friends face Timing me live from the Capitol.
Bradley Waldrop (23:50):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (23:51):
I would have been one of the ones if he had not rescued me.
And he made me realize, yes, America is is a great nation. That's true. It's not the greatest.
And it will fall just like all the other nations will fall, you know.
And so he's just really brought me through so much. I mean, really has.
And in that process back in Texas on that small ranch, he really softened my heart for the,
(24:16):
for the for the Muslim community.
And then also, oh, November 29 2019, I saw a documentary.
I came across a documentary called, sheep among wolves.
I I don't know if you've seen it or not.
Bradley Waldrop (24:28):
I have.
Ann Lindholm (24:29):
Oh my gosh. I was floored. I couldn't sit down.
I just I stood and watched this documentary multiple times.
And I knew deep in my spirit I'm gonna have something to do with that. Afghanistan falls.
August 2021, a former colleague reaches out.
We are inundated with request for help. Can you help? Yes.
(24:54):
For for 6 weeks solid, almost 17 hours a day, a 100% volunteering when I really needed a job
and was going through separation.
Bradley Waldrop (25:02):
Oh.
Ann Lindholm (25:05):
I I was volunteering for helping with Afghan rescues.
And by the way, right before that started, I was sitting in my study, Psalm 27 4 is above the
fireplace, and I just kept begging god.
I knew I had to get a job because I was about to be divorced at at some point soon, and I needed
to figure out how am I gonna serve you know, provide for my family.
I said, god, that's what I want right there. It's Psalm 27 4.
(25:27):
If I can do that and provide for my family, please make that that's what I want.
And so I do this volunteer for 6 weeks, and I get a phone call from the from the lead guy.
And he says, so, Al, that's what they call me.
You've done a phenomenal job.
How would you like to get paid for what you're doing?
Bradley Waldrop (25:46):
What?
Ann Lindholm (25:47):
And I'm like, cool.
Bradley Waldrop (25:49):
That sounds
Ann Lindholm (25:50):
great. Sitting here thinking I'm thinking kind of a minor amount. Right?
Which I was gonna take.
And he gets me in touch with the head guy and we talk and he's like, well, what salary do you require?
And I paused and hesitated, which by the way is rule 101 of negotiating.
You never could be the first one to give the number.
And, and so then he throws something out there, and I'm like I don't have my degree, by the
(26:13):
way, because I quit again because I had to raise my kids and homeschool.
Bradley Waldrop (26:16):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (26:16):
Which I did. I'm actually back in school now, and I'm a year away from completing my bachelor's.
And I've now switched to international relations and global security.
And so that was the beginning of that.
And so that started in September of 2021.
And since then, I have been running teams, ground teams and and things in the Middle East, developing
(26:38):
and managing safe houses, rescuing persecuted people, for all kinds of reasons, whether they
worked with US coalition forces, because of their faith, whatever. Maybe they're gay.
Whatever it is, they're being hunted by the Taliban or whatever.
And so operating in multiple countries in the Middle East and throughout Europe, and it's just kind of grown.
(27:00):
And so now, we saw a lot of corruption in the organizations, and so our my team and I, we've
started our own organization, our own nonprofit.
Global agents of change, dot org is our nonprofit, and then our for profit is Key of David Consulting.
And so that brings us to where we are today.
And in this process, through all of these travels in the Middle East and all this time that
(27:20):
I've spent with Muslims, it is the very people that I grew to hate Yeah.
That are the ones that have actually thrust me into a deeper intimacy with the Lord because they would ask me.
And by the way, through discovery bible study, processes, and I can share more about that later.
It's just a very it's an inquisitive of bible.
As you you read the text and you ask certain questions, you never tell anybody what to think,
(27:44):
what to believe, or anything like that, and it led many Muslims to the lord.
In fact, several in our safe house is still very high prominent men who who were in the government
and things like that and are now discipling other community members and family members from the safe house.
And, but they would ask questions.
(28:06):
My partners, my colleagues would ask questions like, yeah.
Well, we believe in Jesus too, but, like, you think he's God, don't you? I'm like, well, yeah.
And they're like, well, why do you believe he's God? Show me.
And I'm like, well, yeah. It's easy.
And they're like, well, show me scriptures. I'm like, okay.
And I come back and I'm like, okay.
So there's not really, like, scriptures that just come straight away and say Jesus is God.
(28:27):
There's, like, maybe 1 or 2 that kind of allude to it.
And so what did that do?
That thrust me into an investigative journey.
Bradley Waldrop (28:35):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (28:35):
And I had to go figure out for myself, why do I believe Jesus is God?
Bradley Waldrop (28:40):
Yeah. And let let let me ask you in the only because you I think you shared with me, through your application.
We're not talking about a few rescues.
We're not talking about a couple dozen. Right?
The the the the rescues there's a there are a lot of lives that you've touched.
(29:03):
How many?
Ann Lindholm (29:05):
Praise god.
Bradley Waldrop (29:06):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (29:07):
I don't even know. I don't even know.
And and it's and it's not, like, it's not me.
It's not anything, but all I did was say yes. Right?
Bradley Waldrop (29:17):
Yeah. Which And it's which is fascinating for me because I get a chance to watch, at least,
the sketch that you've laid out of one act of obedience after another in which you didn't know
what was gonna come next.
And then when you it based on what I hear from you, I don't wanna put words in your mouth.
(29:38):
When you're confronted by something that doesn't make sense, instead of sitting down and asking
somebody else explain it to me, you're saying, no, no, no.
I need to go figure this out by myself.
The Lord and I have to spend some time together to get down to the truth rather than being influenced
by the other people who are around me.
(29:58):
And that takes a takes a level of discipline and tenacity and and love for this relationship
that you do have with the Lord to honor what it is he already wrote down for us. That's fascinating for me. For people who
Ann Lindholm (30:16):
It's kinda scary.
Bradley Waldrop (30:17):
It's really scary. And I you know, it's interesting because because there's this very interesting
friction for those people who have been incredibly obedient.
The the sense of unease and discomfort comes across as as fear, yet yet at the same time incredibly
(30:38):
confident in the power of God and the call on your life. Right?
It's a very strange thing to try to explain to someone Yamaguchi.
Ann Lindholm (30:49):
I don't know that I would say confident. No. Courageous. Well Courageous.
I I don't I don't know what to call it to be honest with you. That's okay.
There there there are so many days that I mean, especially right now.
I mean, look, my team is having to start over from scratch.
My team has worked together for almost 4 years that we were working for other or 2 other organizations.
(31:13):
And again, I'm not gonna go into all of those things. Sure.
Some really great people in there.
The, the in in fact, from the Saw documentary, if you recall, the the Iranian pastor whose head
was covered and his Iranian wife, he's he is probably the most prominent mentor of mine.
He has been one of the most profound key figures in my life these last three and a half years.
(31:37):
He is someone who has always spoken truth to me even when it's uncomfortable to hear.
Bradley Waldrop (31:43):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (31:45):
He has stood by my side to, you know, to kinda be there when I have these raw hard questions
and will speak the truth.
And if I stray, like, I mean, he like, he's, you know, he speaks it and he's like, yeah.
But you you're wrong on this.
Bradley Waldrop (32:02):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (32:03):
I'm like, okay. Show me why or whatever.
But, in in this season, we've gone through some major transition, extreme betrayal.
And when I say betrayal, I mean betrayal of the worst kind. Look.
We're never betrayed by somebody we don't know.
Betrayal comes from someone that you know, that you trust, and that you care for and love. Yeah.
Bradley Waldrop (32:24):
You the the the mere definition of betrayal is that if the somebody doesn't know you, they can't betray you.
Ann Lindholm (32:30):
Yeah. Right.
Bradley Waldrop (32:31):
But the most intimate can.
Ann Lindholm (32:34):
That's right. And so we have experienced extreme betrayal from within the Christian community.
Bradley Waldrop (32:39):
Sure.
Ann Lindholm (32:40):
And so, you know
Bradley Waldrop (32:45):
Come back to me, Anne.
Ann Lindholm (32:49):
I went home joined. This occurred, and so we're having to start from scratch.
I don't have an income since June.
Bradley Waldrop (32:58):
Okay.
Ann Lindholm (32:59):
And I've decided to go back to school.
Bradley Waldrop (33:00):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (33:01):
And I've just started decided to launch a business and a nonprofit.
To say that it's not scary
Bradley Waldrop (33:07):
That part's scary
Ann Lindholm (33:08):
for sure. It is. And to say that no.
Every day, I'm like, god, what are you doing?
Like, I know that this is what and and if you look.
There are people who will tell me, you you just need to go get a job or whatever.
Bradley Waldrop (33:25):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (33:25):
And I'm like, I hear you, and I understand that that's what makes sense.
Bradley Waldrop (33:29):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (33:29):
I've submitted over a 100 resumes.
Bradley Waldrop (33:32):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (33:33):
And I've been turned down from jobs that it does not make sense.
Bradley Waldrop (33:38):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (33:39):
And then I was actually selected for a government position that the process keeps getting pushed back.
Like, it's like every day, I'm like, god, what are you doing?
Bradley Waldrop (33:51):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (33:51):
When things don't make sense, when when they should.
Bradley Waldrop (33:56):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (33:57):
My first question is, what are you doing, god? Yeah.
And so I understand that from the outside looking in, I should just go get a job.
But again, it comes back to the last 4 months, the amount of time that I've spent networking
and connecting with other people who have been very key to everything that's happening right now.
(34:20):
If I had just gotten a job Yeah.
I wouldn't have met these people.
Bradley Waldrop (34:24):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (34:24):
And I know that each of them play a very dynamic role in whatever it is he's doing.
But back to your point, every day, I'm like, this is so uncomfortable.
Like, I don't have the faith for this. I'm really scared.
I don't know what is next.
I don't know, like and there had been some times where I'm like, I'm literally I've never had a panic attack.
I've made fun of people.
(34:45):
That's the dumbest thing I've ever had.
I'm like, oh my gosh. They're so real.
Bradley Waldrop (34:48):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (34:48):
And I'm like, I literally think I'm having a heart attack.
I don't know how I'm gonna pay my bills.
Bradley Waldrop (34:53):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (34:55):
It's it's a scary thing.
Bradley Waldrop (34:57):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (34:58):
But I know that he's doing something. Yeah.
Like, I know that the amount of time that I've spent in the East and and and learning these
languages and learning the cultures, and I don't know what it is. Probably, I don't. And it's very uncomfortable.
Bradley Waldrop (35:12):
Yeah. Yeah. For from a from a guy who I don't know how much of your my story you know, but from
a guy who was told by God to go sell everything that doesn't fit into 2 pods, 1 SUV, go across
the country, And without a friend, without a job, and without a plan, and 2 young kids, I get it.
(35:37):
You have more going on than I did, and and and I think that you also have a a lot clearer indication
of what god wants you to do right now than than I had based on what I'm hearing. That's all. I I I
Ann Lindholm (35:53):
I don't know about that. Okay.
Bradley Waldrop (35:55):
I don't
Ann Lindholm (35:56):
know about that. I just Yeah.
Bradley Waldrop (35:57):
I don't
Ann Lindholm (35:57):
know. And which, by the way, I'm I'm selling my house. Like, I'm Yeah.
I'm in the process of selling there's yeah.
There's, like, all these things.
And all these people are, like, well, why would you do that?
Look, I have a VA loan, and it's in a it's a phenomenal rate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And why would you Yeah.
Bradley Waldrop (36:11):
Right. I'm like None of this none of this makes any logical sense to anybody else except for
where I heard very clearly that this is what God wanted me to do.
So I'm going to do it. Okay.
Ann Lindholm (36:21):
And I don't even know that I can confidently say that except that I just have this, like, I don't I'm one person.
Bradley Waldrop (36:30):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (36:30):
I don't need 32 100 square feet. Nope.
I look, the amount of time that I've spent in the Middle East, like, I've just really come I
have had such a transition of perspective. Mhmm.
We are so spoiled and we live in such a bubble.
So many people have these misperceptions and stereotypical viewpoints of so many things happening
(36:50):
in the world and many people have never even left their state. Yep.
And so that's one of the projects that I'm working on is a cultural wellness.
I've actually already developed it.
It's, and it's been launched, finding hanasa.com, and it's a cultural wellness course.
Bradley Waldrop (37:05):
Cool.
Ann Lindholm (37:06):
I'm hoping that employers will use this for their, employees who are maybe struggling to get
along with other, coworkers and stuff.
Bradley Waldrop (37:14):
Sure.
Ann Lindholm (37:15):
For whatever reason, all kinds of differences. Right?
But, in all of in in all of these last 4 years, I've just really come to realize I thought I
knew a lot of stuff.
Bradley Waldrop (37:26):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (37:26):
I thought I knew Islam, which which I look, Islam is still there anyway, I thought I knew Muslims. Oh my gosh.
Do you know there are so many Muslims that look, when I was in where was I? It Turkey or Cyprus.
I think it was in Cyprus.
And, the call to prayer comes out, you know, and, like, we had been there for a couple of weeks,
(37:49):
and not one time had we seen one person stop
Bradley Waldrop (37:52):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (37:53):
And pray during the call to prayer.
Mind you, this is 5 times a day.
And so we're in this old in an old town, in this old Venetian palace, and we're outdoors and
the call to prayer comes.
And then all of a sudden, they break the call to prayer and they just start saying something.
I'm like, oh, that was interesting. What was that?
I'm like, I'm ready to get bombed. What was going on? And, nobody moved.
(38:15):
And so I see this table of guys, there's 5 guys, and so I walk over, and I said, to the the
guy that seemed like the leader, I was, like, can I can I ask you something, like, what did what just happened there?
He's like, oh, somebody died, and they were just paying respects to them and just, you know, kinda talking about it. I'm like, oh, okay.
Can I ask you another question?
Why don't I ever see anyone stopping to pray
Bradley Waldrop (38:38):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (38:38):
During the call to prayer?
And they just started laughing so hard.
And they're like, we didn't give an about Islam.
And I was like, oh. Okay. I'm like, okay.
And and it was and I was like, really?
It's like, what do you mean?
He's like, you wanna have a seat?
And I was like, yeah.
And they're like, let me go get some talking. So he turkey. Oh my gosh. Turkish coffee. So we're sitting.
(38:59):
We have 2 Christian people sitting with nominal Muslims Yeah.
In a Venetian Palace drinking Turkish tea, and we're talking about politics, we're talking about
religion. 1 of them is studying the Torah. 1 of them is 2 of them were studying the Bible. 1
of them is agnostic, and the other one is a pretty devout Muslim, but still doesn't stop to
(39:19):
pray because he doesn't wanna be told what to do and when to pray.
And I'm like, wait a minute. Wow.
Bradley Waldrop (39:26):
Wow. That had to have been quite a surprise of the irony in it. Right?
It just sort of drips.
Ann Lindholm (39:33):
I'm like, everything I've ever been told is just was just blown up right here. Yeah.
Bradley Waldrop (39:37):
That's the velvet dress. Right?
You just you it had the upper has no clothes.
You just you just completely, you know, you you disclosed all of the magic tricks right there. It was all done. Oh, that's crazy.
So let me let me ask you.
I mean, one one thing is for those people who are are watching this or listening, I want them
to be able to figure out how to get a hold of you and be able to help.
(39:59):
So that's that's the first thing I want to do.
And then second is, I would love to hear where you see this in in 5 or so years.
I'm not here to have you, you know, sort of, you know, do any sort of prophecy here at all.
I'm I'm I think that God's probably put something really strong on your heart of something that
(40:23):
he would like for you to be able to do, and I'm just curious what that is.
Ann Lindholm (40:30):
So first thing, there are a number of ways that people can reach out
Bradley Waldrop (40:34):
Yeah. To
Ann Lindholm (40:34):
me and to my team.
It's it's this is not the Anne show.
It's not just about me.
I can't none of this is possible without my team.
My ground team is phenomenal.
But, global agents of change dot org. K. Finding hanasa.com
Bradley Waldrop (40:51):
k.
Ann Lindholm (40:51):
Is the cultural awareness course, and I'll be adding other courses as well.
And then key of David consulting.com is our global security, consulting firm.
Bradley Waldrop (41:01):
K.
Ann Lindholm (41:02):
His his publishing house.com is where you can find some of my books. Not a big deal.
It's maybe some other stuff will be added later.
There is a blog that has a lot of a lot of good, articles and things just kind of from my time sitting with the Lord.
Good. 5 years from now, I literally have no idea. That's
Bradley Waldrop (41:23):
why I was a little afraid to ask this question.
No norm normally normally, I can tell when someone is pretty confident of what's gonna happen.
And for you, I I I I really kind of expected you to say, I don't know, but wherever God's gonna
want me, that's where I'm gonna be.
Ann Lindholm (41:41):
Yeah. Look, my mom my mom passed away in November.
Bradley Waldrop (41:44):
I'm sorry. Here.
Ann Lindholm (41:44):
Thank God for the job that I had. She had dementia, Alzheimer's. Yeah.
And, I was able to go and be with her for the last 4 to 6 weeks and and take care of her.
I was there with her when she died.
My hand was on her chest
Bradley Waldrop (41:58):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (41:58):
When she took her last breath and all the things.
And, in that process, and I used to also be a hospice sitter.
I've in imminent, so I would sit with patients until they actually died because I didn't have
family to sit with them and all the things.
I was there with my father-in-law when he died.
So I've seen a lot of death and, like, all the things.
And but especially with my mom and just seeing how things just kinda went back.
(42:24):
Every the world kept going.
Like and and my oldest brother, he basically died twice.
He went into cardiac arrest twice. Wow.
And as I was driving down to Dallas to go see him and he was still in a coma, like, the world's still moving.
Bradley Waldrop (42:40):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (42:40):
And so there's all these profound moments for me, especially in the since November. And I'm like, okay. The world keeps going.
It literally doesn't care if I'm alive or not.
I don't know when I'll take my last breath.
I have way too much stuff that I don't need.
(43:00):
I've seen the way they live in the Middle East and in Europe, which by the way, one of the other
things I've learned is how much they honor individuals, how much they honor family and community Yeah. And relationship Yeah.
And how much we don't.
Bradley Waldrop (43:14):
Yep.
Ann Lindholm (43:14):
I've learned so much from being in the Middle East.
And so I don't know where I will live when my house I literally don't know.
Everybody's asked me my kids have asked me, where are you gonna live when you sell that? I'm not real sure.
Bradley Waldrop (43:27):
Yeah.
Ann Lindholm (43:27):
I have some friends in Greece.
I have some friends in Italy. I I don't know.
I really don't know where I'm going.
What I know is I'm 49 years old.
I won't be 50 in February.
And I don't want to ever live my life again in such a way that I don't have in mind.
(43:51):
I don't know if I will have my take my next breath or not.
I don't want to work just to survive.
I want to live on purpose with intention, and I want to be a global agent of change who will
go out, engage, equip, and empower others to promote global security, stability, and peace as
(44:13):
far as it depends on us.
That's what I wanna do with the rest of my life. How long is that? I don't know. Where will that be? I don't know.
Bradley Waldrop (44:21):
That's amazing. If you were if you were to give the folks that are watching or listening to
this one bit of advice that you've learned in this entire crucible that you have been in, what would it be?
Ann Lindholm (44:35):
Never trust, always verify. I love it.
Stop believing everything you see in here, because it's probably not even close to the truth,
especially when it comes to about other people.
Bradley Waldrop (44:48):
I that's that's amazing. I really, really appreciate you sharing your story, and I can see God
very clearly working through you it's amazing to watch I'm I'm encouraged by your tenacity and
your obedience I I I can't exactly put myself into your shoes.
(45:11):
I can put myself into similar
Ann Lindholm (45:13):
I'm not always obedient. Okay.
So I just sort of I just wanna make sure that people know, like, I'm not putting myself far from perfect. Yeah.
Bradley Waldrop (45:23):
Well, I I think I think that the people who are watching and listening probably know that it's not perfect.
I mean, that's the hope. Right?
Is that that that because even though we are not
Ann Lindholm (45:33):
It's very messy.
Bradley Waldrop (45:34):
Yeah. Life is messy. And and and our faith is messy too. Right?
There's no there's no perfection
Ann Lindholm (45:40):
in it. And and And that's, oh, that's the other thing. This is so important. Ask him the questions. Ask the freaking questions.
He's not afraid of you and he can handle your questions.
He can handle your doubt.
He can handle your confusion. He really can't.
Quit asking everybody else about him and just go straight to him and ask him.
(46:03):
Why did you kill the firstborn of all those people that were innocent?
What what was what was up with that?
How was that in your character?
Like, that doesn't make any sense to me. Who created sickness?
It wasn't Satan because if he did, then that means you didn't create all things and you said you created all things.
Well, how do I feel about the fact that you created sickness and you love it? Yeah.
Like, ask him the questions.
Bradley Waldrop (46:24):
Yeah. Those are great questions, and and I appreciate you empowering everybody to do that and and sort of pushing.
Because without that sort of inquisitive nature, it's hard for us to have a real honest open relationship with Christ anyway. Right?
And those are the kinds
Ann Lindholm (46:40):
of things suggest that you don't.
If you're not asking those questions Yeah.
You're probably not in a valid intimate relationship.
Bradley Waldrop (46:49):
I couldn't have said it any better.
I think we're done with the interview. Thank you very much.
Thank you for joining us on testimonies of triumph.
We hope today's story inspired and encouraged you to see God's hand at work in your life.
(47:11):
A special thank you to our amazing engineers and production team at Wall Drop Communications
for making this show possible. Until next time.
Keep walking in faith and remember, God's grace is with you every step of the way.
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