January 10, 2025 • 52 mins
Discover the transformative potential of polyvagal counseling with our esteemed guest, Jennyfer Rosado, LPCS, who stands as one of the only therapists in Texas with specialized polyvagal training through 2021. Jennyfer shares her remarkable journey as a trauma counselor, enriched by prestigious trainings like the Rhythm of Regulation and the Polyvagal Congress in Germany. Together, we explore the pivotal role of the nervous system in therapy, promising insights that are both enlightening and comforting.
Gain a deeper understanding of polyvagal theory in therapeutic practice. We unpack the three vagal states—ventral, sympathetic, and dorsal—and their profound connection to the autonomic nervous system. Guided by the pioneering work of Stephen Porges and Deb Dana, our discussion reveals how concepts like neuroception and co-regulation can aid therapists in helping clients transition from states of defense to homeostasis. By mapping emotional states and identifying vital cues, therapists can support resilience and emotional balance.
Navigate the complexities of trauma responses and the adaptive behaviors that arise within our nervous system. We'll examine physiological states such as fawning, hyperarousal, and dorsal states, offering strategies for better regulation and emotional awareness. With practical tools like emotional mapping and identifying "glimmers," listeners can foster a state of ventral regulation, akin to maintaining emotional cruise control through life's challenges. Don't miss the exciting updates and future presentations that promise to expand your therapeutic toolkit.
Get your step by step guide to private practice. Because you are too important to lose to not knowing the rules, going broke, burning out, and giving up. #counselorsdontquit.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Happy Wednesday everyone.
I am Dr Kate Walker.
This is Texas CounselorsCreating Badass Businesses and
Kate Walker Training, giving youa free CE tonight.
So we have a lot of peopleregistered for this and I
believe our presenter for yep,she's here Jennifer Rosado LPCS,
(00:22):
and I met Jennifer on Facebook,so I have not actually met
Jennifer in person, but hercredentials blew me away because
I want to learn more about this.
I don't know anything aboutthis, so when she agreed to do
this, I was super excited.
(00:43):
So just a little bit aboutJennifer.
I hope everybody can hear me.
Everybody thumbs up.
Can you hear me?
All right, good deal, all right.
That's why we play the music.
Well, also because I like themusic.
So Jennifer attended a six-monthrhythm of regulation training
recently.
Fun fact, when she moved toTexas I'm reading this when she
(01:05):
moved to Texas in 2019, she wasthe only therapist in Texas to
have that polyvagal trainingthrough 2021.
She's attended multipletrainings in this and she's
working on her second book,because I was looking at her
website for her counselingpractice, which is called CELA
Trauma Counseling Center, and soI'm going to turn it over to
(01:30):
you, jennifer, and please,please, tell us more about you,
because this topic fascinates me, and you've warned me.
You said you're going to giveus a little soothing tonight,
and you have agreed to even go alittle bit longer than an hour,
and so I welcome that, ofcourse.
Those of you that have to jumpoff at an hour, we totally get
(01:51):
that.
And oh sorry, one more thingHousekeeping.
If you've never attended one ofour CEs, welcome.
I'm so glad you're here, but wedo need you to fill out a form.
You'll see that in the chatsoon, and once you see the
Google form, we'll be sure toremind you to fill out the form.
Also, you got to keep yourcamera on, because it's just
(02:12):
more fun that way, and then weknow you're here.
All right, jennifer, I'm goingto turn it over to you.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
JENNIFER WANGERHAUSER-.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Hi everyone.
Jennifer WANGERHAUSER I see youI don't hear me my speakers
have been acting weird didn'tanybody else hear me?
There you are.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Okay, you are now in my headphones okay, you never
know, technology is a time fun,delight and I made you a co-host
so you can share screen to yourheart's content.
So tell us more about you.
That's probably the hardestthing, the hardest question ever
(02:59):
to answer, because I don't know.
I just enjoy what I do.
So I'm a trauma counselor.
I've been doing this for about10 years.
I come from New Hampshire nowthrough Wichita Falls and yeah,
so that's about it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Wichita Falls has represented in this group.
We have so many people.
That's awesome.
That says something aboutWichita Falls and Midwestern
State University and all thepeeps.
All right, so tell us where youwant to start.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, let me just jump into the PowerPoint,
because I've got everythingbuilt into it, perfect, and then
we can go from there.
So this is the first time Iwill have shared on Zoom.
So please bear with me, noworries.
So please bear with me, noworries.
It doesn't go exactly as Iwould have expected to.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
In theory in your co-host you'll see all the
people who are entering, butjust ignore them.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
I'll get them just ignore, okay, so we're gonna do.
I make this slightly smaller,sorry guys.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
That's okay.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Trying to navigate.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Hey, I'm just happy I hit the record button.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
All right, now I have to give it permission, so
that's super fun.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And if all goes wrong on your end, you can always
email me the PowerPoint and giveme the permission and I can
present it for you.
So don't worry, we've alwaysgot to work around.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Okay, so it's telling me I may have to log on and log
back off, but we shall see,okay, okay, so back to that.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Back here, okay, back here, okay and if you need to
log on and off, that's all right, we'll still be here.
Yep, I see things, things,things are happening, all right.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Okay, and then in theory, if I push present, is it
doing what it's supposed to do?
I see an animation of a nervesystem Perfect but I cannot see
anybody.
Okay, so.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I will.
If I see questions in the chat,I'll call them out to you.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
That'd be fabulous.
That's kind of weird, all right.
Well, this is polyvagalcounseling and it's a lovely
nervous system, vagus, nervevisual here that we have of the
brain as we get ready to dive in.
So a little more about me.
(06:11):
As Kate said, I've trained withDeb Dana through the Rhythm of
Regulation in 2018-2019.
I've done polyvagal embodiedyoga, the safe and sound
protocol.
In June I went to the PolyvagalCongress in Potsdam, germany,
and I've done polyvagal EMDRtraining.
(06:33):
So that's just a small littlesnippet of all the trainings
that I've done, but those arejust kind of more specific to
polyvagal.
Beyond that, just a socialstatement.
I am Caucasian, cisgender,female-bodied, and I currently
live on the unceded lands of theWichita or Kickapoo tribes,
which is now known as WichitaFalls, texas.
(06:54):
So as we go along, please letme know if my words or actions
cause offense and I pledge, ofcourse, to listen and attempt to
repair Any questions so far, Ithink we're good.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I don't see anything in the chat.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Okay, my background, like I said, is an integrative
trauma therapist.
I use the integrative wordbecause I like to bring things
together and you'll see howpolyvagal really blends into
this process.
I typically work with mostlycomplex trauma, developmental
traumas, and that ranges fromfirst responders to kids and
(07:39):
adults, and spend a lot of timewith survivors of sexual
violence.
So that happens to be typicallythe people that I work most
with.
And, of course, my practice isSaylor Trauma Counseling Center
and we specialize here in trauma, but we're able to treat
(08:00):
couples with an LMFT associateand then we can treat families
and individuals and kids as well.
And then a little more about me.
I personally volunteer withBrainSpottingHelp and have been
offering free, brief crisistherapy to the Ukrainian
refugees or those still involvedin the war since that started,
(08:23):
and I have a second book that Iam currently in process where I
am querying agents, and that isquite a process.
So you know, pause here.
Are there any accessibilityaccommodations that need to be
met before we go on?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I think we're good.
I had one question about theGoogle form.
We have not posted it yet, soI'll be sure to let y'all know
when we post the Google form.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Okay, so I've got a nice little visual here.
It's been a long few days withall the election stress and the
things that are going on aroundus.
I'm going to pause togetherwith us for about five minutes.
We could go longer if peoplewould like.
I'll play some music in thebackground and if, for any
(09:18):
reason that it's triggering, Ican wave to indicate if you need
to step off.
I can wave to indicate um whenthat music is over.
You're welcome during that time.
If you do step off, um to dowhatever brings you peace.
In that time, and as the musicbegins, I'm going to invite you
(09:38):
to look around and start toorient yourself to your
surroundings, letting your eyesmaybe wander if something
catches your eye jennifer, we'renot able to hear the music
I haven't started that quite yet.
Okay, I can if people wouldlike.
(09:59):
I was just going to give someinstructions first, but we can
do that.
Um, if something catches youreye when you're orienting around
, you're welcome to stay thereas often as you'd like, letting
your eyes just naturally line onsomething, um, in the horizon
or something neutral, and if youfeel inclined, you can allow
(10:22):
your ears to adjust to the sound, far away and near with the
sound of your breath and can youhear the music.
So next thing, if I did itcorrectly, it correctly.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
If you want to unshare and then reshare.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It'll ask if you want to share with sound.
It'll be a check box.
That's what I was wondering.
Okay, stop sharing.
Is everybody see the correctscreen?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
We see leaves with sunshine, beautiful, okay.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Now, sometimes we just need a quick restart.
Let's see if it'll play.
I hear sound Okay, we justneeded a quick restart, all
(11:38):
right.
So as we start to pause, I'mjust going to have you explore
and invite, if you'd like, yourawareness to your muscles and
what it would feel like torelease the tension, maybe just
(12:08):
even 1%, noticing your breath,that you need more expansion, a
longer exhale, and then, for thenext five minutes or so, just
(12:29):
invite you to close your eyesand let your mind wander.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Thank you so.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Thank you.
Thank you, we start to arriveback in the present.
Consider gently stretching.
Maybe we need to take up somespace with our arms wide open
(15:54):
bit and I'd say let's begin, butwe already have.
This was a bilateral sound, butit is a way to help us start to
anchor in our nervous system.
The agenda today is to identifythe three vagal states.
(16:14):
We'll learn how to map your andyour client's nervous system
and then we're going to learnhow to apply the three key
principles of polyvagal theoryin therapy.
Evt is just the quickabbreviation.
Some background Stephen Porgesis the creator of polyvagal
(16:36):
theory, coming out of theresearch studying infant
mortality, specifically SIDS, inthe 70s, and then through the
years and the applied polyvagaltheory in the early 90s began to
take shape.
So if you've ever read any ofhis older books, it's pretty
technical and scientific.
(16:56):
Deb Dana really begantranslating this into an
accessible language fortherapists and now it's included
in nearly all trauma trainings,including EMDR, somatic
experiencing, sensory motor,brain spotting, internal family
systems and so on.
So applied polyvagal theory isthe science of safety in you,
(17:19):
your clients and relationallywith the world.
You're looking at thatrelationship between the
autonomic nervous system, humanhealth and experience.
The ANS, or the autonomicnervous system, is the
intervening and modulatingvariable.
Modulating is where andintervening is where we get to
come into play.
(17:40):
So the autonomic nervous systemhas its own language.
It's not now, excuse me, it'snot why, what or who, but how we
are.
It's relational, as all organsare connected in a rhythmic
neural signal through the vagusnerve.
Are you giving your nervoussystem permission to recover
(18:01):
into homeostatic function, whichis the idea behind the music
just a moment ago?
So allow ourselves a few momentsto recover from and prepare for
stressors over the next littlebit and just another reflection
are you disrupting this processthrough stress, anxiety, illness
(18:26):
, pathogens?
So it's not so much about theevents but about the state, and
I'll go further into thosestates in a moment.
So there's a dual awareness inapplying polyvagal to counseling
the awareness of our ownnervous system and the capacity
to be present.
And then for clients, they needto have capacity in the present
(18:50):
moment before moving tointegrate or release accumulated
stress or trauma from the past.
How can we feel safe to releasesomething from the past when we
can't be present with everydaythings?
It's as much learning to feelsafe when feeling positive
emotions as it is about thecapacity for holding that
(19:11):
negative emotion as well.
I've got on screen a little bitabout the social engagement
system and beginning to seethose states.
There's a lot of arrows that'sokay, we'll go through those and
a little simpler sliding scale,if you will, from Magdalena
Weinstein in 2020.
(19:31):
So a little more science andwhy the vagus nerve hacks have
become so popular, and you cansee in that left video where the
cranial nerves start to go intothe brain.
And then, of course, ourintroduction video, as you can
see how that nerve goes all theway through our body.
(19:55):
I use biology to reduce shameand help our clients gain agency
.
So, if you recall, through themodulating portion of the ANS
we're able to do that.
These videos really show howthe systems start to communicate
everywhere and they do sobidirectionally.
So 80% of the information fromthe vagus nerve goes up into the
(20:20):
brain.
So we've evolved from this tohave a tiered response to threat
which is further identifiedthrough those states.
The vagus communicates tonearly every organ in the body
and the vagus communicatesinteroceptive information, so
that information it's gatheringall the way up into the
(20:41):
prefrontal cortex about thosechanges in arousal.
This occurs often withoutconscious awareness, but we can
bring conscious perception toour experience.
If you're thinking aboutphysical movements, you're not
only using, like your bones andyour muscles, you're using nerve
pathways in the brain andbetween the brain and the rest
(21:04):
of the body to communicate howto move those muscles, how to
move your bones.
The more you stimulate thosepathways by using them, the more
efficiently they work.
The same principle is going toapply when we're working with
the vagus nerve and anyinterventions and the states.
The more we work with them, themore we get comfortable with
(21:25):
them, the easier those pathwaysare to follow.
So a mnemonic to help you as wego along.
One, two, three.
One vagus nerve splits into twomain branches.
We've got the parasympatheticand the sympathetic and then
with the three states betweenthose two parasympathetic and
(21:46):
sympathetic branches.
Those three states are ventral,sympathetic and dorsal.
So the hierarchy of the ANShere.
I've written it as the windowof tolerance.
So technically we've got asympathetic branch and a
(22:10):
parasympathetic branch thatcomes down and they blend to
become this ventral area righthere.
How we get there is throughneuroception and co-regulation.
So those are the threeorganizing principles, as I
mentioned earlier in the agenda,that help create how we apply
(22:31):
and how we understand polyvagaltheory with our clients and
ourselves.
So we'll focus on the hierarchywhen we're mapping and then
understanding neuroception andco-regulation, how that informs
those states that we work with.
So neuroception is the termcoined by Stephen Borges for
(22:53):
threat detection, scanning it'sin the brain and referencing am
I safe?
Am I loved?
What can I learn?
But we can't learn first if wedon't feel safe, which is why we
come back to this being thescience of safety and helping us
return into a homeostatic place.
(23:13):
The goal, if we're counselingand strictly focused on nervous
system.
Work is to build resiliencethrough so slowly supporting the
nervous system to reshapeitself.
This happens by noticing morecues of safety and connection
and releasing tension heldinstead of staying in that state
(23:37):
of defense, all tensed.
Essentially, we're returning tohomeostatic function and not
getting stuck in cures.
This can be mismatched.
So your client may, or you mayeven, neurocept cues of danger
and feel anxious and activatedwhen they're in your office,
(23:59):
even though logically we knowthey're perfectly safe.
They know they're perfectlysafe.
They don't feel it.
It doesn't match.
And vice versa, of course,there can be an inactivation
when there's danger, and that islearned through time.
For neurodivergent brains,common danger cues may be
(24:20):
neutral to someone else.
Unexpected touch, light, sounds, loud sounds, bright lights all
those things may be neuroceptedas danger.
The Trauma Geek is a brilliantFacebook page.
I think her name is Janelle,not really recalling her last
(24:43):
name, but her page is the TraumaGeek, and she has a website and
she does a beautiful job ofjust explaining neurodivergence
and polyvagal theory and mergingthose two.
(25:05):
So on to co-regulation.
We're going to naturally do sowhen we're in groups or through
each other.
It's in conjunction essentiallywith neuroception, so we're
using like mirror neurons in thebrain, the DMN in the brain and
different areas in order tofeel, see and be with people.
We are wired for connection andwe cannot survive without it,
(25:29):
especially during threat.
We really need another nervoussystem essentially to help
influence ourselves to come backinto a place where we feel safe
enough to move forward.
We do so through vocalintonations, head movements,
facial expressions.
All of those can affect thatneuroception of safety.
(25:51):
And interestingly there was astudy done with preemies having
underdeveloped neuromuscularstructure and parents actually
having a hard time recognizingthat the baby was attached to
them.
And I don't know about you allbut those awful still face
experiments.
You recall those videos and howterrible that was to watch.
(26:15):
You know that was co-regulation.
And then the lack of going onas well as neurocepting danger
through those still faces.
Thinking of how your clients andyour energy or state influences
each other is important.
Through COVID it's been a longroad back, especially socially,
(26:41):
because our bodies learn peopleare a threat.
So neuroception, co-regulationare very important and then
later as we move forward we'llsee how those affect our states.
Before we dive in to thosestates, I'm just going to invite
(27:02):
you to look at this as anopportunity to see a little bit
about trauma and we havesomebody walking along here in
the here and now.
Something ordinary happenswhich cues those implicit
memories of then and there andwe have that stress response
happen.
And it's then and now, in thepresent.
(27:24):
We might be drained, we mightbe activated.
So our brain and our bodiesreally work together like a
symphony.
Even though I'm talking mostlyabout the nervous system today,
know that the brain is also partof this, because what's in the
brain is in the body, what's inthe body is in the brain.
It all works together.
(27:45):
We're thinking about a symphonyand in order to understand or
play a symphony we have to breakit up into parts.
When we're watching a concert,we might not pay attention to
all the moving pieces.
You know it's going much fasterthan what we actually
understand it to be, and that'sthe same with our brain and our
body.
So that is how quickly here andnow becomes then and now.
(28:11):
That might happen throughfacial expressions, voice, eye
contact, body cues.
Those are all giving us atoolkit to work with and we can
observe those things also in ourclients From the moment they
arrive.
We can help them start to applystrategies and interventions
(28:33):
just based on.
If they're walking, like thisindividual here, a client
becomes your shared partner on ajourney to improve their health
and that looks like throughattuning to our own senses that
we're taking in.
Is there safety and danger inour own environment?
(28:55):
Welcoming and warnings,connection, disconnection.
If you're looking around youroffice, you know, is that
everything feeling okay?
I know, if my desk is messyit's probably not.
Those things, as we take thecues in, come up through again
(29:19):
that vagus nerve into our brainand now we're trying to make
sense of it.
So that story follows the statethe story being compromised of
course of the summation ofsensory input and the things
that have happened in our past.
Just as the client gives us ourtoolbox, we have our own
(29:43):
attunement and proximity andvoice and tone and cues.
So we're going to invite ourclient to begin with to explore
those things what's safe in ourroom, what's neutral or secure
in the way to the office or atin their workplace.
These are things that help themstart to orient to their own
body needs and give them someagency as well.
(30:07):
One way that I use this often isthat I let people know they can
move things around in my office.
I let them know I'm also goingto move it back, but they're
free to move it here.
Or they might tell me about aspecific candle that is not okay
for them.
Or in one case I had recentlychanged my sound machine noise
(30:28):
and when my client walked in shewas just completely tensed and
activated and I was curious andwhat was going on.
This was so different from howshe normally presented and as we
went through all of these cuesand the sensory pieces, we found
out that the noise machineactually sounded much like a
(30:53):
monitor that she'd had during aperinatal trauma and loss and so
obviously we stopped that.
So asking your clients toexplore those triggers during
intake can be really importantand then also throughout your
sessions, they may have new anddifferent cues that come up as
you're doing your work together.
(31:13):
The big piece is gettingcurious, and even getting
curious about their phones.
How many cues of danger arethey taking in as the millions
of times that we are disruptedin looking at our phones?
Are there things on there or away to put a picture that might
be more soothing so that everytime you look at it you're
(31:36):
taking in a cue of safety?
Those are going to be how westart to offer corrective
experiences to return into thathomeostatic state.
Jennifer you have a question I'msorry.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And you may cover this later.
The question is how would oneapproach a client with
regulation if they are highlydissociative?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
So is that something you'll cover later or you want
to tell?
We can address it here a littlebit.
Okay, so somebody that's highlydissociative?
That's the ultimate form ofself-protection, the ultimate
activation in our nervous system.
So that's all self-protection.
So we're not necessarilylooking for regulation.
What we're looking for isenough neural challenge and
(32:25):
enough safety being built in agentle way to bring them back to
that present moment, to createsafety in the present.
And we do that through thesenses.
And we do that through thesenses, um, it's not something
that I specifically covered, butI can give you a quick example
of a client that we were doingsome pretty intense, um, brain
(32:50):
spotting session, um, andessentially they disassociated
pretty hardcore and I invitedthem to lay down and we had
already gone through all thesecues that we already knew what
would support.
So that's part of doing this inthe very beginning is helping
them know from the verybeginning.
Um, and so you know, we got ourwater bottle and I offered her
(33:13):
water and as she was layingthere, um, we, you know, just
had her gently rock back andforth.
She invited me to sit besideher and I had a weighted blanket
for her and then we used somegum and just kind of, as she
(33:33):
slowly began to eat the gum andkind of had that cinnamon taste
and exploring how that wasshifting in her body, she began
to come back into the presentmoment and then from there we
were able to kind of keepworking on staying present.
So that's how I invite that in,just knowing that it's the
(33:55):
ultimate form of protection.
It doesn't scare me so much asit just says oof, there's a lot
of cues of danger here.
I'm going to help them findsafety in the moment.
And I say safety knowing noteverybody feels safety.
That might be just neutrality,it might be security, but for
terms of this training, safetyjust seemed the easiest to say.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Any more question on that?
Nope, you are good to go okay.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
So cues we neurocept from the outside world, between
people and the outside world,and then internally you, or how
we arrive into those threestates.
So here we go, here's ourstates.
When I say the ultimate form ofprotection, we're talking down
here into hyperarousal.
(34:51):
If you're looking at the vagusnerve, I previously said it was
a hierarchy and it branches intotwo places the sympathetic and
the parasympathetic.
So we're always going to hitthat sympathetic first with too
much energy here in fight orflight and then we'll peak at
(35:12):
overwhelm and freeze and dropdown here into freeze or
hyperarousal or what is termeddorsal in polyvagal.
So I've got two different formshere and I've got a ton of
different graphics for you as wego along.
But we're all.
I'm a visual learner and I liketo see different ways of
(35:34):
communicating that information.
So I put up a bunch hopefullyhelp people take in the
information in ways that wouldfeel okay to them.
This window here of ventral isgoing to be that balance of
energy and I'll jump into thatin a moment.
So if we start with oursympathetic nervous system, that
(35:57):
energy is all well, it's allabout energy.
It's in the brain, associatedwith the limbic system, so the
middle part of our brain andit's more focused on stress or
threats in that red zone thatwe've got up there and too much
energy.
But keep in mind, energy couldalso be you know what.
(36:17):
We need to stay awake during asession to focus or play or
exercise.
So it doesn't have to be energythat's activated in a negative
association, it can just simplybe energy.
Sympathetic is going to havephysiological similarities.
That might be a iceconstricting, rapid heart rate,
(36:41):
shortness of breath.
Maybe we have some flushinghappen as we go into that state
and as it's coming up, then ourbrain's going to assign it that
meaning.
There's that story we havebased on our own past history.
So it's like when we walk intoa room you can feel the tension
and you're like what is that?
(37:01):
What's going on?
So I might be curious aboutthat, while another person might
be like oh no, that's dangerousand I'm out.
So the polyvagal saying isstory follows state.
So learning about sympatheticstate, you know you start to
look at these words here rage,panic, fear, survival mode.
(37:24):
I don't care, scared andoverwhelmed.
We can't register consequencesright Because we're not having
access to our prefrontal cortex,all that blood flowing to the
limbic system.
We are ready to fight, flightor freeze, and that's often over
time with my complex traumaclients for sure because there's
(37:46):
been danger down here instillness.
So when we enter this area, saywe're doing all right, we're
feeling connected, and then atrigger happens right, we might
move up here into dysregulationand then we might quickly jump
right over here intohyperarousal, depending on what
(38:08):
that story means to us or thelevel of threat that happens.
Dysregulation might look likeirritability or worry, friend
self-criticism.
So if you can think of a slightstressor right now, in this
moment, you might move fromirritable to anger and thinking
(38:28):
about like how did I go fromhere to here?
When did that shift happen?
What sensations do you noticein your own body?
Fight and flight have their ownstories, and so does freeze.
Freeze, when I said earlier,it's starting to.
(38:50):
Is that the tip here?
It's because it's starting topull in parasympathetic energy.
So we'll have an immobility inthe muscles but internally very
active, shaking.
There's an adaptive behaviorthat arises here.
This is the story of the childwho listens to the weight of the
(39:10):
footsteps coming down thehallway to determine if that
person is drunk or unpredictable.
Tonight that child, now anadult, that nervous system is
super alert, use and detectdysregulation in the room, start
(39:32):
adapting and people-pleasing toreduce the potential for danger
, otherwise known as fawning.
I just want to quick invite youto take a big inhale and an
exhale, maybe shake it outbefore we move on into dorsal.
And the reason we're going toshake it out is we want to get
(39:55):
that energy just kind of movingthrough.
We don't want to hold it whereit becomes anxiety, we want to
just move that through.
It's a practice we can teachour clients too.
So dorsal is our rest anddigest system.
Parasympathetic branchImmobilization happens and that
(40:17):
especially happens in thatunsafe side where there's a life
threat and that becomes againsurvival mode as well.
But the ultimate activation ifsay we're not in survival mode
and we just need ourparasympathetic branch to work,
right, we have rest, digest, youhave prayer and meditation
(40:37):
there, you have just a lovelysleep, that happens and then
moving back over into a place ofunsafeness, we start to maybe
feel burnout or you have a hardstop of you know collapsing
because of something thathappened.
(40:57):
You might have this goingthrough the motions is often
talked about or just you knowgoing through it, um, and we
have grief.
That also lies here as well,and when we're sick we
automatically have moreparasympathetic energy coming
(41:18):
into our body.
So if we haven't fully arrivedat burnout, maybe we're hovering
here in this dysregulation zone.
That might look like meh, Ilove that word, I think it was a
beautiful addition to ourverbal stories of emotions, and
(41:44):
here we also have.
If we're moving all the way downinto dorsal or hypoarousal,
what we have is a story ofappeasement.
This happens when there is alife threat, and this happens
when there is a life threat andit becomes again another
ultimate act of survival.
So we're shutting offcompletely in order to survive.
(42:13):
So things that come to mindwould be a Black man pulled over
by a police officer who'scoming in hot and heavy on a
simple traffic stop.
Might be a sex traffickingvictim keeps going back or isn't
able to escape out of thatsituation just yet it's
appeasement that happens.
(42:33):
It often in the past wasreferred to as stockholm
syndrome.
Those are the two big stories ofself-protection in our bodies.
They're actually stacked, butwe have dorsal that's associated
(42:54):
with kind of like ourintestinal area, and then
stacked on top of that would besympathetic, more located in the
lung area and then ultimatelyanother big deep breath, maybe
some movement coming up intowhat is now referred to in this
(43:15):
graphics of our window oftolerance or capacity, ventral
energy, and that is our blend ofthe parasympathetic and
sympathetic, and that state isreferred to as our social
engagement system due to theconnection it makes.
So we're taking in these cuesof joy and softness in the face.
We might have patience andcuriosity and we have full
(43:39):
access to our whole brain andthinking.
This also includes full accessto our emotions.
We're not avoiding them orshutting them down.
We're able to feel.
And that's really what we meanby regulation is that we're able
to feel everything and not shutdown or not go into activation.
(44:01):
We're able to be with thoseemotions.
Activation we're able to bewith those emotions.
We can also edge towards one orthe other and, depending on
into going into thatdysregulation zone, we don't
have to fully activate.
So to recap again, that storyfollows state.
(44:22):
If I go to the grocery store, asanother example, at the end of
the day and I am donehypoarousal right my body's
probably going to be morecollapsed on itself.
I'm not maybe making eyecontact, my voice is going to
lower, I'm exhausted and whybother?
(44:42):
So I'm going to get milk andcereal, because who cares anyway
, moving into hyper arousal andmy sympathetic state.
Oh man, I am fast.
I am annoyed at people drivingbecause they are terrible
drivers.
I'm in the store, people are inmy way.
Let's go, go go.
I'm in the store, People are inmy way.
(45:03):
Let's go, go go Grabbing things, get out.
I got stuff to do and I gethome and I was supposed to make
spaghetti but I forgot, you knowkey ingredients like noodles or
sauce, maybe both, because I'min such a hurry that I just
(45:23):
don't see everything.
And if I arrive in Ventral,I've taken a little bit of time
to sit with myself and movethings through.
I'm going to recognize oof, Imight have had a hard day today.
I'm going to go to the store,I'm going to get everything on
my list and I'm probably goingto pick up a little treat for
myself because it was a hard day.
(45:47):
And that's kind of a way to helpus distinguish in our own
selves what's going on in ourbodies or these different states
and how they arrive or look.
Another shift or another way toexplain it to clients would be a
gas in the brakes, gas beingsympathetic, right, our energy,
bra breaks being full, stop downinto that parasympathetic
(46:10):
branch of dorsal.
You know might be a littleherky-jerky, getting started to
slow down as we're starting toteach our clients how to be
still that there's safety there,get there, it just takes
practice.
Or if they're up in hyperarousal, soul gas man, we're
(46:34):
going, we're going, we'retalking fast and taking that
exhale, giving ourselves amoment, shaking it out.
That is gas and we want tolearn how to operate that car in
a much smoother motion.
And ultimately we want to be onthe highway with cruise control
(46:56):
up in ventral and with thebalanced energy right, because
cruise control slows us down aswe go down hills, speeds us up
as we go up, right, it's takingcare of those things.
It's that balance.
Before I move on and go intofurther explanation, are we good
?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
I don't see any questions and I think we're good
, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
So the capacity of a client often looks this way
right, much smaller window, much, much smaller.
You're going to start to noticethose patterns with your
clients.
So this client and many of ourclients sort of ricochet between
(47:48):
sympathetic and dorsal, goingup and down, up and down, up and
down.
And this is where the truebeauty lies with Polyvagal and
starting to support them to slowdown enough to feel a little
bit of that ventral energy andcapacity before they fully shut
down and then coming back up.
(48:10):
Is the energy safe enough tofeel and then allowing sort of a
rhythm to happen and take placein our bodies.
It's a beautiful foundation oftherapeutic work where we're
going to allow whatever modalityyou're already using or trained
in to be perfectly fine.
Polyvagal is just ourfoundation.
(48:32):
We set it on, or we set what wealready know on top of it, and
we just kind of take in thesecues and learn more about what's
going on to help support whatwe're already doing and just for
fun, if the animation will go,nope, ah.
Most of the time our clientslook like that quick slide
(48:59):
through Of sympathetic anddorsal when accessed by stress,
danger, threat, remember areboth in service of survival.
Behaviors, then, are in serviceof survival.
That might mean behavior ofworkaholics, lying behaviors,
(49:19):
disassociation.
We're just not in connectionwith ourselves.
That's all in connection withourselves.
That's all.
So here we go into mapping Withclients.
You're going to begin exploringrelationships with each state.
This is our original map,created by Deb Dana If you see
down there in 2018, this waswhat she originally used in her
(49:43):
first book.
So the relationship becomesreally important.
And how I start out and I'mgoing to invite you guys to do
the same, if you'd like makingnotes just create three little
spots for yourself, labelingthem ventral, sympathetic and
dorsal.
(50:03):
And, in practice with clients,I give them a choice of markers
or pencils and then choosingwhichever color feels right for
them.
Not to spend too much timelaboring over it, but just
thinking okay, this is whatfeels right for sympathetic,
(50:25):
this is what feels right fordorsal, this is what feels right
for sympathetic, this is whatfeels right for dorsal and this
is what feels right for ventral.
And then that's what they'lluse for each place, and we're
going to invite them to starteither in sympathetic or dorsal.
We want to end in ventralenergy.
We want to end as close toregulation as possible, even if
(50:45):
they've only completed onesection and the full hour is up
End in ventral.
Give them a minute or two tothink about some cues of safety,
regulating resources, somethinglike that glimmers, awes,
moments of awes, those types ofthings to just help them take a
pause and be able to leavesession a little safer, a little
(51:08):
better than what they were.
And this can be verydysregulating for clients to go
through.
It can be very sad for them asthey realize how often that they
spend activated and shut down.
So you'd be invited, of course,to jot a few things down for
each section and we start withthoughts that arise, emotions
(51:31):
and feelings.
How do you know you've arrivedin sympathetic?
How do you know you've arrivedin dorsal?
You might include bodysensations and thinking about
(51:52):
yourself.
Turning to relationships andlooking at sleep if I'm
activated, do I sleep well?
Am I up at 4 am?
(52:12):
If I'm shut down, am I sleepingtoo much?
Maybe I can't sleep at all?
I'm beginning to go througheach of those states there with
the intimacy and thatrelationship.
Change friendships and am Ipushing them away or pulling
(52:36):
them in?
Activity and work, food, ourspending habits, our
relationship with ourself, andhow it changes when I'm in
sympathetic and I'm activated.
You're collapsed and dorsal andshut down.
You might start to get an ideaand a picture that maybe I spend
(53:02):
more time in one state than theother.
My home away from home issympathetic.
I'm an activated person.
Dorsal feels terrible to me.
I do not enjoy being shut down.
Through the years I've learnedhow to be there, but for a long
(53:23):
time slowing down was not.
It was no good.
No, thank you.
So I just kind of you keepyourself going right and then
you fall into burnout and that'sno good.
So then you come back up andfind those ways to essentially
keep yourself activated.
And I know many people thatspend their time and their home
away from home in dorsal andthat might be even like a happy,
(53:48):
melancholic person.
You know that just lower energythat's where they're at.
Too much energy does not feelgood to their system.
So, interestingly like, if youthink about a workmate or a
spouse or maybe even your kidsthinking oof, we might have a
mismatch in our nervous systems.
They might be activated and Imight be someone who spends more
(54:11):
time more in dorsal and sotheir energy is just like,
absolutely not okay and learninghow to find the balance for
both of you guys is importantand that becomes part of our
therapeutic work too.
So this idea within the map isthat we're going to have markers
(54:32):
on here where you know how orwhat it looks like, those clues
and cues to help us begin toidentify where we're at, what
state am I in.
And as we're in there, therewe're going to ask ourselves if
I'm in sympathetic.
I am, and you fill in thatblank.
(54:56):
And the world is, and you fillin that blank.
I often tell my clients I'm notworried about labeling an
emotion so much, just need toknow where you're at on your
(55:17):
math.
Are you in sympathetic or areyou in dorsal today?
Where are you?
Because we don't have anassociation with that name or
with either name.
So we haven't made it negativeor gross or bad, it just is.
We can invite curiosity intothis place, and if we're
(55:38):
inviting curiosity, that meanswe're starting to pull in
ventral energy.
We can start to do somethingabout it.
Energy, we can start to dosomething about it.
What you'll hear me say iswhere are you and what do you
want to do about it Makes itpretty simple that way, once
(55:58):
those two areas, the sympatheticand dorsal, have started to
shape each other and you canreally get to see what those
look like, you can go on up toventral and do the same things.
How do you know you've arrived?
How do you feel when you'rebalanced, thinking about like
times you're on vacation, youknow a lot of times.
(56:19):
I have to really prompt clientsto help them find what ventral
is like, and it might be simpleas reminding them what did it
look like when you went outsideand saw the stars tonight?
Just a tiny little glimmer,that's all we need.
(56:41):
And over here on the right sidewe have spots, if you wanted,
or you could invite your clientto name what those are.
So I've had kids call differentstates like broccoli, like
cause I hated broccoli, and sothey would come in and talk
about oh, I wasn't broccoliagain today.
It's awful when we share thosewith our loved ones or dear ones
(57:15):
.
You know they can help cue usinto and create that awareness.
And the more we're aware, themore we can start to change
further with these maps.
After they've gotten you, youknow, for a while, you know
they're starting to reallyunderstand themselves and where
they're at.
You know you begin to expandthe maps with triggers and you
can expand the map with theglimmers and the ways that
(57:37):
they're activated or maybethey're exploring the stories
that happen.
I'm going to shift to a secondmap, same thing, but now we've
arrived into our window ofcapacity.
(57:58):
So this piece here.
Dan Siegel first came up withthe window of tolerance, but I
find we can tolerate a lot.
That's not great.
What we want is capacity.
So up here, hypoarousal wouldbe sympathetic state, down here
(58:19):
in survival, dorsal and righthere in the middle, so safe,
social and engaged ventral.
And this map comes from lindatie and she does a lot of great
work with polyvagal and reallyhighlights too much energy, too
little energy.
I think that's helpful forclients to kind of see.
(58:43):
This is where I'm at learningthose stories of protection and
disconnection is another way tomap.
We can go into the story theytell themselves when they're in
rage or fight, shame and shutdown the story can reinforce
(59:07):
that state.
So when we ask about I am andthe world is, we can see how
they view themselves, how theyview the world, and that starts
to make their behaviors make alittle more sense, like, oh,
okay, or you can help them putthose pictures together.
Of course it feels that waybecause people are dangerous or
(59:32):
the world is chaos.
Speaker 1 (59:33):
Why would you want to go?
Speaker 3 (59:34):
out another map.
This was released in 2023, sothey updated the hierarchy
(59:56):
instead of having it be a ladder.
Now we've got circles, we'vegot blended states and I love
that this is highlighted soyou've got your quiet moments
and intimacy.
So there's that immobilizationparasympathetic pathway and
you've got ventral, and thenwe've got this hybrid of play
and dance and sports withimmobilized energy and that
(01:00:18):
parasympathetic ventral pathway.
And then here, of course, whenthe mobilized and immobilized
meet and there has been a threatdetected, you've got that free
state of defense or, over time,if there's a higher level of
threat, you know we move fromfreeze into fawning and then, of
(01:00:43):
course, the appeasement.
One way that I explain this tofirst responders is sometimes
using the states like astoplight, and I might use terms
(01:01:06):
like tunnel vision or auditoryexclusion, and they'd be really
familiar with those happening inthat sympathetic state.
Some therapists give datescolors.
They just automatically assignthem most often blue for dorsal
and red for sympathetic.
Assign them most often blue fordorsal and red for sympathetic.
(01:01:29):
There's some other ideas.
Because I tend to work with somany folks that have had no
choice or their agency takenaway, it's very important for me
to offer and give as muchagency as possible.
So I invite them, I give themall the options or if they're
too overwhelmed like narrow itdown a little bit and I stick
(01:01:52):
with what works best for them.
So one client I might use thecircles for mapping and they may
fill those in for their ownpieces.
For another one, it might bethat previous one with linda
kai's work, or the first withjust that hierarchy.
(01:02:12):
Any questions?
Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
I don't see anything in the chat okay.
Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Well, let's move on to the best effort, which is
glimmers.
So glimmers are the opposite oftriggers, those moments of awe,
because we haven't spent a lotof time in ventral yet and we
have to use intentionality withthem.
You could have your clientstrack them in a journal or
(01:02:54):
usually on their phones, becausethey always have their phones
with them.
You could have them changetheir screen saver to a glimmer
on this lovely little photo.
Here I have some of my ownglimmers.
So down here at the bottomwe've got biscuit, my dog, and
(01:03:18):
in spite of her face, she reallydoes love swimming in the pool.
But those moments of awe, awe,places that bring us peace,
people might bring us peace.
I tend to not use people asmuch for like a regulating
(01:03:42):
resource only because,unfortunately, people pass away
or things can happen to them,and so that can.
What had been regulating in thebeginning may, through your
work, end up not being such agreat thing.
What are your guys' glimmers,as that brings us just a few
(01:04:14):
resources I wrote down.
There's so many out there.
A quick Google or Pinterestsearch.
You'll have many maps of yourown.
Rosenberg does a basic exerciseusing the vagus nerve.
Be happy to take you guysthrough that pandiculation
exercises, which there's aspelling error, um.
(01:04:35):
Beaconhouseorg from the uk hassome really great resources.
And then, of course, in themiddle we've got the polyvagal
institute.
You've got Deb Dana, who's gota ton of books.
She has one coming out, I thinkthis month.
The Polyvagal Institute wasalso mentioning there's a new
(01:04:56):
book coming out or just came outthis fall regarding autism.
I was pretty excited to snagthat book when it comes.
We've got Dr Ariel Schwartz.
She does some fantastic workwith movement and the body.
Linda Tai she's one of myfavorite people.
(01:05:18):
She's just a neat human and shehas like a 12-week offering for
kind of deep diving intoembodied and regulating
resources.
So if you want a class full ofthem, you'll definitely get
those from her and it's a veryaffordable cost.
(01:05:38):
Rebecca Case does EMDR andpolyvagal blending.
And then, of course, the traumageek and then we have a degree,
the hearts aligned.
That was a study.
So if you Google that or lookit up on YouTube, it was really
cool for all of us pet lovers.
They put a heart monitor on thedogs and their humans and then
(01:06:03):
they separated them and thenthey put them together and they
were studying and watching theirhearts and literally their
heart rates, even though theywere a little bit faster for the
dog than the humans theyaligned when they met after a
certain very short amount oftime.
So it was really cool to see.
And since then, I believeneuroscience news has also,
within this last year, releasedsomething similar the body
(01:06:27):
perception inventory.
You can find that through thePolyvagal Institute or if you
use the Safe and Sound Protocolthat assesses the state, so you
can use that as a really cooltool to help your clients.
And then, of course, safe andSound Protocol.
They are getting ready torelease the rest and restore
(01:06:51):
option Right now.
Safe and sound is just meant tobring you up into a state of
ventral, of safety, and sothrough the sounds that are
modulated and filtered soundsthat are modulated and filtered,
what it's doing is essentiallyworking with the ears and the
(01:07:12):
muscles in the ears and toningthem, and the safe and sound
moves you up.
But so many people like myself,you know, have not ever been
comfortable in dorsal, and sothere's this offering that is
releasing, I think at the end ofthis month, and it's still, you
know, again same thing usingsound to help ease our way into
(01:07:36):
dorsal.
Easing is the key word we don'twant to drop.
It doesn't feel great.
So there we are's, our, my twopractices, selah trauma
counseling center and then myown, jay rosado, where I
originally started out, and then, of course, I'm just doing
(01:07:58):
mostly intensives over there, or, um, my books jennifer, this is
wonderful.
Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
So how would you prefer people contact you?
I mean, you're giving us theinformation here, but do you
prefer phone calls?
Leave messages, because I knowpeople are going to seek you out
, especially if you dointensives on this.
I mean, I'm so relaxed justhearing you talk.
Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Well, I'm actually hoping to.
Life got a little chaotic thelast couple months, but I'm
hoping to release a whole seriesof trainings on this and
teaching people to.
There's so much missed when wego to like an EMDR weekend or a
brain spotting weekend orwhatever you're doing, unless
(01:08:44):
it's like the three-year sensorymotor training.
So there's so much missed andthat's my offering and that's
what I've been putting together.
It just had to kind of go tothe side for a minute because
between that and then I'm in abook class and then there's some
things with the practice thatI'm building, and so I'm like,
okay, something has to pause.
Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Yeah Well these are great resources.
Would we, would you be willingto let us have the PowerPoint
when we send out thecertificates?
Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
Absolutely, absolutely, and email's probably
the easiest way.
I will be honest, I hateanswering the phone.
That is a cute disconnection tome.
Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
I was asking because I saw phone numbers.
I'm like no, we shouldn't callher right, let's just email her.
Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
No no, I mean you can , I'll get back eventually.
Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
What email then?
Because I think you hadwebsites, but I didn't see an
email.
What would you like I can typeit into the chat.
Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
Oh, probably the easiest.
I can type it into the chat.
Oh, probably the easiest.
If you want me directly, it'sjust Jennifer J-E-N-N-Y-F-E-R at
salatraumacccom.
Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Okay, is that it?
Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
Awesome, I love, love , love helping people.
So absolutely reach out.
If I don't respond or you knowit's been a couple days, send it
to me again.
It's likely I'm just a littlebit overwhelmed and so I tend to
like put things like I'll getto that, I'll tend to that in a
minute.
Good, that's good.
Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
All right, well, thank you.
Thank you so much again, andyou are also in the Badass group
, and so that's how I found youSuper excited that happened.
So can folks tag you if theyhave questions as well?
Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I can stay on a
few more minutes if people wantmore questions.
I mean, this was like a.
This was very fast, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
I know, but you gave us so many tools and I just I
love, I love the resources youprovided as well.
So thank you again.
And so everybody I see peopleare starting to and totally good
, I know you guys are Take amoment and you know the drill.
Please click the link right now.
I just put it back into thechat and if you click it now,
(01:11:14):
you don't have to fill it outnow, but you can fill it out
once we end the meeting.
Also, recognize that if yourname on your screen, your Zoom
screen, is not the name name youregistered with or there's some
sort of a mismatch,certificates may be delayed.
Our next presentation I'm superexcited about if you're a
(01:11:34):
supervisor, we have AmandaEsquivel, who will talk to us
about actual stuff you can useduring supervision techniques
and ideas and drills.
And then I think we have a kindof a coup or not a coup,
nevermind, but in December wehave a really cool thing that's
what I meant to say, a coolthing happening in December.
(01:11:57):
We have Dr Melissa McEffrey.
She is a documentation queen,as far as I know, so she's going
to talk to us aboutdocumentation and I've asked her
to include information about ai, so you won't want to miss that
, jennifer.
Thank you again so much.
I'm dr kate walker and I'mabout to hit the end button.
Uh, and you guys grab the link.
(01:12:19):
Have a wonderful evening, go dogreat things and eat a good
dinner, take care.
Happy Wednesday everyone.
I am Dr Kate Walker.
This is Texas CounselorsCreating Badass Businesses and
Kate Walker Training, giving youa free CE tonight.
So we have a lot of peopleregistered for this and I
believe our presenter for yep,she's here Jennifer Rosado LPCS,
(00:22):
and I met Jennifer on Facebook,so I have not actually met
Jennifer in person, but hercredentials blew me away because
I want to learn more about this.
I don't know anything aboutthis, so when she agreed to do
this, I was super excited.
(00:43):
So just a little bit aboutJennifer.
I hope everybody can hear me.
Everybody thumbs up.
Can you hear me?
All right, good deal, all right.
That's why we play the music.
Well, also because I like themusic.
So Jennifer attended a six-monthrhythm of regulation training
recently.
Fun fact, when she moved toTexas I'm reading this when she
(01:05):
moved to Texas in 2019, she wasthe only therapist in Texas to
have that polyvagal trainingthrough 2021.
She's attended multipletrainings in this and she's
working on her second book,because I was looking at her
website for her counselingpractice, which is called CELA
Trauma Counseling Center, and soI'm going to turn it over to
(01:30):
you, jennifer, and please,please, tell us more about you,
because this topic fascinates me, and you've warned me.
You said you're going to giveus a little soothing tonight,
and you have agreed to even go alittle bit longer than an hour,
and so I welcome that, ofcourse.
Those of you that have to jumpoff at an hour, we totally get
(01:51):
that.
And oh sorry, one more thingHousekeeping.
If you've never attended one ofour CEs, welcome.
I'm so glad you're here, but wedo need you to fill out a form.
You'll see that in the chatsoon, and once you see the
Google form, we'll be sure toremind you to fill out the form.
Also, you got to keep yourcamera on, because it's just
(02:12):
more fun that way, and then weknow you're here.
All right, jennifer, I'm goingto turn it over to you.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
JENNIFER WANGERHAUSER-.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Hi everyone.
Jennifer WANGERHAUSER I see youI don't hear me my speakers
have been acting weird didn'tanybody else hear me?
There you are.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Okay, you are now in my headphones okay, you never
know, technology is a time fun,delight and I made you a co-host
so you can share screen to yourheart's content.
So tell us more about you.
That's probably the hardestthing, the hardest question ever
(02:59):
to answer, because I don't know.
I just enjoy what I do.
So I'm a trauma counselor.
I've been doing this for about10 years.
I come from New Hampshire nowthrough Wichita Falls and yeah,
so that's about it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Wichita Falls has represented in this group.
We have so many people.
That's awesome.
That says something aboutWichita Falls and Midwestern
State University and all thepeeps.
All right, so tell us where youwant to start.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, let me just jump into the PowerPoint,
because I've got everythingbuilt into it, perfect, and then
we can go from there.
So this is the first time Iwill have shared on Zoom.
So please bear with me, noworries.
So please bear with me, noworries.
It doesn't go exactly as Iwould have expected to.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
In theory in your co-host you'll see all the
people who are entering, butjust ignore them.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
I'll get them just ignore, okay, so we're gonna do.
I make this slightly smaller,sorry guys.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
That's okay.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Trying to navigate.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Hey, I'm just happy I hit the record button.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
All right, now I have to give it permission, so
that's super fun.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
And if all goes wrong on your end, you can always
email me the PowerPoint and giveme the permission and I can
present it for you.
So don't worry, we've alwaysgot to work around.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Okay, so it's telling me I may have to log on and log
back off, but we shall see,okay, okay, so back to that.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Back here, okay, back here, okay and if you need to
log on and off, that's all right, we'll still be here.
Yep, I see things, things,things are happening, all right.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Okay, and then in theory, if I push present, is it
doing what it's supposed to do?
I see an animation of a nervesystem Perfect but I cannot see
anybody.
Okay, so.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I will.
If I see questions in the chat,I'll call them out to you.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
That'd be fabulous.
That's kind of weird, all right.
Well, this is polyvagalcounseling and it's a lovely
nervous system, vagus, nervevisual here that we have of the
brain as we get ready to dive in.
So a little more about me.
(06:11):
As Kate said, I've trained withDeb Dana through the Rhythm of
Regulation in 2018-2019.
I've done polyvagal embodiedyoga, the safe and sound
protocol.
In June I went to the PolyvagalCongress in Potsdam, germany,
and I've done polyvagal EMDRtraining.
(06:33):
So that's just a small littlesnippet of all the trainings
that I've done, but those arejust kind of more specific to
polyvagal.
Beyond that, just a socialstatement.
I am Caucasian, cisgender,female-bodied, and I currently
live on the unceded lands of theWichita or Kickapoo tribes,
which is now known as WichitaFalls, texas.
(06:54):
So as we go along, please letme know if my words or actions
cause offense and I pledge, ofcourse, to listen and attempt to
repair Any questions so far, Ithink we're good.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
I don't see anything in the chat.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Okay, my background, like I said, is an integrative
trauma therapist.
I use the integrative wordbecause I like to bring things
together and you'll see howpolyvagal really blends into
this process.
I typically work with mostlycomplex trauma, developmental
traumas, and that ranges fromfirst responders to kids and
(07:39):
adults, and spend a lot of timewith survivors of sexual
violence.
So that happens to be typicallythe people that I work most
with.
And, of course, my practice isSaylor Trauma Counseling Center
and we specialize here in trauma, but we're able to treat
(08:00):
couples with an LMFT associateand then we can treat families
and individuals and kids as well.
And then a little more about me.
I personally volunteer withBrainSpottingHelp and have been
offering free, brief crisistherapy to the Ukrainian
refugees or those still involvedin the war since that started,
(08:23):
and I have a second book that Iam currently in process where I
am querying agents, and that isquite a process.
So you know, pause here.
Are there any accessibilityaccommodations that need to be
met before we go on?
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I think we're good.
I had one question about theGoogle form.
We have not posted it yet, soI'll be sure to let y'all know
when we post the Google form.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Okay, so I've got a nice little visual here.
It's been a long few days withall the election stress and the
things that are going on aroundus.
I'm going to pause togetherwith us for about five minutes.
We could go longer if peoplewould like.
I'll play some music in thebackground and if, for any
(09:18):
reason that it's triggering, Ican wave to indicate if you need
to step off.
I can wave to indicate um whenthat music is over.
You're welcome during that time.
If you do step off, um to dowhatever brings you peace.
In that time, and as the musicbegins, I'm going to invite you
(09:38):
to look around and start toorient yourself to your
surroundings, letting your eyesmaybe wander if something
catches your eye jennifer, we'renot able to hear the music
I haven't started that quite yet.
Okay, I can if people wouldlike.
(09:59):
I was just going to give someinstructions first, but we can
do that.
Um, if something catches youreye when you're orienting around
, you're welcome to stay thereas often as you'd like, letting
your eyes just naturally line onsomething, um, in the horizon
or something neutral, and if youfeel inclined, you can allow
(10:22):
your ears to adjust to the sound, far away and near with the
sound of your breath and can youhear the music.
So next thing, if I did itcorrectly, it correctly.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
If you want to unshare and then reshare.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It'll ask if you want to share with sound.
It'll be a check box.
That's what I was wondering.
Okay, stop sharing.
Is everybody see the correctscreen?
Speaker 1 (11:04):
We see leaves with sunshine, beautiful, okay.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Now, sometimes we just need a quick restart.
Let's see if it'll play.
I hear sound Okay, we justneeded a quick restart, all
(11:38):
right.
So as we start to pause, I'mjust going to have you explore
and invite, if you'd like, yourawareness to your muscles and
what it would feel like torelease the tension, maybe just
(12:08):
even 1%, noticing your breath,that you need more expansion, a
longer exhale, and then, for thenext five minutes or so, just
(12:29):
invite you to close your eyesand let your mind wander.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Thank you so.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Thank you.
Thank you, we start to arriveback in the present.
Consider gently stretching.
Maybe we need to take up somespace with our arms wide open
(15:54):
bit and I'd say let's begin, butwe already have.
This was a bilateral sound, butit is a way to help us start to
anchor in our nervous system.
The agenda today is to identifythe three vagal states.
(16:14):
We'll learn how to map your andyour client's nervous system
and then we're going to learnhow to apply the three key
principles of polyvagal theoryin therapy.
Evt is just the quickabbreviation.
Some background Stephen Porgesis the creator of polyvagal
(16:36):
theory, coming out of theresearch studying infant
mortality, specifically SIDS, inthe 70s, and then through the
years and the applied polyvagaltheory in the early 90s began to
take shape.
So if you've ever read any ofhis older books, it's pretty
technical and scientific.
(16:56):
Deb Dana really begantranslating this into an
accessible language fortherapists and now it's included
in nearly all trauma trainings,including EMDR, somatic
experiencing, sensory motor,brain spotting, internal family
systems and so on.
So applied polyvagal theory isthe science of safety in you,
(17:19):
your clients and relationallywith the world.
You're looking at thatrelationship between the
autonomic nervous system, humanhealth and experience.
The ANS, or the autonomicnervous system, is the
intervening and modulatingvariable.
Modulating is where andintervening is where we get to
come into play.
(17:40):
So the autonomic nervous systemhas its own language.
It's not now, excuse me, it'snot why, what or who, but how we
are.
It's relational, as all organsare connected in a rhythmic
neural signal through the vagusnerve.
Are you giving your nervoussystem permission to recover
(18:01):
into homeostatic function, whichis the idea behind the music
just a moment ago?
So allow ourselves a few momentsto recover from and prepare for
stressors over the next littlebit and just another reflection
are you disrupting this processthrough stress, anxiety, illness
(18:26):
, pathogens?
So it's not so much about theevents but about the state, and
I'll go further into thosestates in a moment.
So there's a dual awareness inapplying polyvagal to counseling
the awareness of our ownnervous system and the capacity
to be present.
And then for clients, they needto have capacity in the present
(18:50):
moment before moving tointegrate or release accumulated
stress or trauma from the past.
How can we feel safe to releasesomething from the past when we
can't be present with everydaythings?
It's as much learning to feelsafe when feeling positive
emotions as it is about thecapacity for holding that
(19:11):
negative emotion as well.
I've got on screen a little bitabout the social engagement
system and beginning to seethose states.
There's a lot of arrows that'sokay, we'll go through those and
a little simpler sliding scale,if you will, from Magdalena
Weinstein in 2020.
(19:31):
So a little more science andwhy the vagus nerve hacks have
become so popular, and you cansee in that left video where the
cranial nerves start to go intothe brain.
And then, of course, ourintroduction video, as you can
see how that nerve goes all theway through our body.
(19:55):
I use biology to reduce shameand help our clients gain agency
.
So, if you recall, through themodulating portion of the ANS
we're able to do that.
These videos really show howthe systems start to communicate
everywhere and they do sobidirectionally.
So 80% of the information fromthe vagus nerve goes up into the
(20:20):
brain.
So we've evolved from this tohave a tiered response to threat
which is further identifiedthrough those states.
The vagus communicates tonearly every organ in the body
and the vagus communicatesinteroceptive information, so
that information it's gatheringall the way up into the
(20:41):
prefrontal cortex about thosechanges in arousal.
This occurs often withoutconscious awareness, but we can
bring conscious perception toour experience.
If you're thinking aboutphysical movements, you're not
only using, like your bones andyour muscles, you're using nerve
pathways in the brain andbetween the brain and the rest
(21:04):
of the body to communicate howto move those muscles, how to
move your bones.
The more you stimulate thosepathways by using them, the more
efficiently they work.
The same principle is going toapply when we're working with
the vagus nerve and anyinterventions and the states.
The more we work with them, themore we get comfortable with
(21:25):
them, the easier those pathwaysare to follow.
So a mnemonic to help you as wego along.
One, two, three.
One vagus nerve splits into twomain branches.
We've got the parasympatheticand the sympathetic and then
with the three states betweenthose two parasympathetic and
(21:46):
sympathetic branches.
Those three states are ventral,sympathetic and dorsal.
So the hierarchy of the ANShere.
I've written it as the windowof tolerance.
So technically we've got asympathetic branch and a
(22:10):
parasympathetic branch thatcomes down and they blend to
become this ventral area righthere.
How we get there is throughneuroception and co-regulation.
So those are the threeorganizing principles, as I
mentioned earlier in the agenda,that help create how we apply
(22:31):
and how we understand polyvagaltheory with our clients and
ourselves.
So we'll focus on the hierarchywhen we're mapping and then
understanding neuroception andco-regulation, how that informs
those states that we work with.
So neuroception is the termcoined by Stephen Borges for
(22:53):
threat detection, scanning it'sin the brain and referencing am
I safe?
Am I loved?
What can I learn?
But we can't learn first if wedon't feel safe, which is why we
come back to this being thescience of safety and helping us
return into a homeostatic place.
(23:13):
The goal, if we're counselingand strictly focused on nervous
system.
Work is to build resiliencethrough so slowly supporting the
nervous system to reshapeitself.
This happens by noticing morecues of safety and connection
and releasing tension heldinstead of staying in that state
(23:37):
of defense, all tensed.
Essentially, we're returning tohomeostatic function and not
getting stuck in cures.
This can be mismatched.
So your client may, or you mayeven, neurocept cues of danger
and feel anxious and activatedwhen they're in your office,
(23:59):
even though logically we knowthey're perfectly safe.
They know they're perfectlysafe.
They don't feel it.
It doesn't match.
And vice versa, of course,there can be an inactivation
when there's danger, and that islearned through time.
For neurodivergent brains,common danger cues may be
(24:20):
neutral to someone else.
Unexpected touch, light, sounds, loud sounds, bright lights all
those things may be neuroceptedas danger.
The Trauma Geek is a brilliantFacebook page.
I think her name is Janelle,not really recalling her last
(24:43):
name, but her page is the TraumaGeek, and she has a website and
she does a beautiful job ofjust explaining neurodivergence
and polyvagal theory and mergingthose two.
(25:05):
So on to co-regulation.
We're going to naturally do sowhen we're in groups or through
each other.
It's in conjunction essentiallywith neuroception, so we're
using like mirror neurons in thebrain, the DMN in the brain and
different areas in order tofeel, see and be with people.
We are wired for connection andwe cannot survive without it,
(25:29):
especially during threat.
We really need another nervoussystem essentially to help
influence ourselves to come backinto a place where we feel safe
enough to move forward.
We do so through vocalintonations, head movements,
facial expressions.
All of those can affect thatneuroception of safety.
(25:51):
And interestingly there was astudy done with preemies having
underdeveloped neuromuscularstructure and parents actually
having a hard time recognizingthat the baby was attached to
them.
And I don't know about you allbut those awful still face
experiments.
You recall those videos and howterrible that was to watch.
(26:15):
You know that was co-regulation.
And then the lack of going onas well as neurocepting danger
through those still faces.
Thinking of how your clients andyour energy or state influences
each other is important.
Through COVID it's been a longroad back, especially socially,
(26:41):
because our bodies learn peopleare a threat.
So neuroception, co-regulationare very important and then
later as we move forward we'llsee how those affect our states.
Before we dive in to thosestates, I'm just going to invite
(27:02):
you to look at this as anopportunity to see a little bit
about trauma and we havesomebody walking along here in
the here and now.
Something ordinary happenswhich cues those implicit
memories of then and there andwe have that stress response
happen.
And it's then and now, in thepresent.
(27:24):
We might be drained, we mightbe activated.
So our brain and our bodiesreally work together like a
symphony.
Even though I'm talking mostlyabout the nervous system today,
know that the brain is also partof this, because what's in the
brain is in the body, what's inthe body is in the brain.
It all works together.
(27:45):
We're thinking about a symphonyand in order to understand or
play a symphony we have to breakit up into parts.
When we're watching a concert,we might not pay attention to
all the moving pieces.
You know it's going much fasterthan what we actually
understand it to be, and that'sthe same with our brain and our
body.
So that is how quickly here andnow becomes then and now.
(28:11):
That might happen throughfacial expressions, voice, eye
contact, body cues.
Those are all giving us atoolkit to work with and we can
observe those things also in ourclients From the moment they
arrive.
We can help them start to applystrategies and interventions
(28:33):
just based on.
If they're walking, like thisindividual here, a client
becomes your shared partner on ajourney to improve their health
and that looks like throughattuning to our own senses that
we're taking in.
Is there safety and danger inour own environment?
(28:55):
Welcoming and warnings,connection, disconnection.
If you're looking around youroffice, you know, is that
everything feeling okay?
I know, if my desk is messyit's probably not.
Those things, as we take thecues in, come up through again
(29:19):
that vagus nerve into our brainand now we're trying to make
sense of it.
So that story follows the statethe story being compromised of
course of the summation ofsensory input and the things
that have happened in our past.
Just as the client gives us ourtoolbox, we have our own
(29:43):
attunement and proximity andvoice and tone and cues.
So we're going to invite ourclient to begin with to explore
those things what's safe in ourroom, what's neutral or secure
in the way to the office or atin their workplace.
These are things that help themstart to orient to their own
body needs and give them someagency as well.
(30:07):
One way that I use this often isthat I let people know they can
move things around in my office.
I let them know I'm also goingto move it back, but they're
free to move it here.
Or they might tell me about aspecific candle that is not okay
for them.
Or in one case I had recentlychanged my sound machine noise
(30:28):
and when my client walked in shewas just completely tensed and
activated and I was curious andwhat was going on.
This was so different from howshe normally presented and as we
went through all of these cuesand the sensory pieces, we found
out that the noise machineactually sounded much like a
(30:53):
monitor that she'd had during aperinatal trauma and loss and so
obviously we stopped that.
So asking your clients toexplore those triggers during
intake can be really importantand then also throughout your
sessions, they may have new anddifferent cues that come up as
you're doing your work together.
(31:13):
The big piece is gettingcurious, and even getting
curious about their phones.
How many cues of danger arethey taking in as the millions
of times that we are disruptedin looking at our phones?
Are there things on there or away to put a picture that might
be more soothing so that everytime you look at it you're
(31:36):
taking in a cue of safety?
Those are going to be how westart to offer corrective
experiences to return into thathomeostatic state.
Jennifer you have a question I'msorry.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
And you may cover this later.
The question is how would oneapproach a client with
regulation if they are highlydissociative?
Speaker 3 (32:02):
So is that something you'll cover later or you want
to tell?
We can address it here a littlebit.
Okay, so somebody that's highlydissociative?
That's the ultimate form ofself-protection, the ultimate
activation in our nervous system.
So that's all self-protection.
So we're not necessarilylooking for regulation.
What we're looking for isenough neural challenge and
(32:25):
enough safety being built in agentle way to bring them back to
that present moment, to createsafety in the present.
And we do that through thesenses.
And we do that through thesenses, um, it's not something
that I specifically covered, butI can give you a quick example
of a client that we were doingsome pretty intense, um, brain
(32:50):
spotting session, um, andessentially they disassociated
pretty hardcore and I invitedthem to lay down and we had
already gone through all thesecues that we already knew what
would support.
So that's part of doing this inthe very beginning is helping
them know from the verybeginning.
Um, and so you know, we got ourwater bottle and I offered her
(33:13):
water and as she was layingthere, um, we, you know, just
had her gently rock back andforth.
She invited me to sit besideher and I had a weighted blanket
for her and then we used somegum and just kind of, as she
(33:33):
slowly began to eat the gum andkind of had that cinnamon taste
and exploring how that wasshifting in her body, she began
to come back into the presentmoment and then from there we
were able to kind of keepworking on staying present.
So that's how I invite that in,just knowing that it's the
(33:55):
ultimate form of protection.
It doesn't scare me so much asit just says oof, there's a lot
of cues of danger here.
I'm going to help them findsafety in the moment.
And I say safety knowing noteverybody feels safety.
That might be just neutrality,it might be security, but for
terms of this training, safetyjust seemed the easiest to say.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Any more question on that?
Nope, you are good to go okay.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
So cues we neurocept from the outside world, between
people and the outside world,and then internally you, or how
we arrive into those threestates.
So here we go, here's ourstates.
When I say the ultimate form ofprotection, we're talking down
here into hyperarousal.
(34:51):
If you're looking at the vagusnerve, I previously said it was
a hierarchy and it branches intotwo places the sympathetic and
the parasympathetic.
So we're always going to hitthat sympathetic first with too
much energy here in fight orflight and then we'll peak at
(35:12):
overwhelm and freeze and dropdown here into freeze or
hyperarousal or what is termeddorsal in polyvagal.
So I've got two different formshere and I've got a ton of
different graphics for you as wego along.
But we're all.
I'm a visual learner and I liketo see different ways of
(35:34):
communicating that information.
So I put up a bunch hopefullyhelp people take in the
information in ways that wouldfeel okay to them.
This window here of ventral isgoing to be that balance of
energy and I'll jump into thatin a moment.
So if we start with oursympathetic nervous system, that
(35:57):
energy is all well, it's allabout energy.
It's in the brain, associatedwith the limbic system, so the
middle part of our brain andit's more focused on stress or
threats in that red zone thatwe've got up there and too much
energy.
But keep in mind, energy couldalso be you know what.
(36:17):
We need to stay awake during asession to focus or play or
exercise.
So it doesn't have to be energythat's activated in a negative
association, it can just simplybe energy.
Sympathetic is going to havephysiological similarities.
That might be a iceconstricting, rapid heart rate,
(36:41):
shortness of breath.
Maybe we have some flushinghappen as we go into that state
and as it's coming up, then ourbrain's going to assign it that
meaning.
There's that story we havebased on our own past history.
So it's like when we walk intoa room you can feel the tension
and you're like what is that?
(37:01):
What's going on?
So I might be curious aboutthat, while another person might
be like oh no, that's dangerousand I'm out.
So the polyvagal saying isstory follows state.
So learning about sympatheticstate, you know you start to
look at these words here rage,panic, fear, survival mode.
(37:24):
I don't care, scared andoverwhelmed.
We can't register consequencesright Because we're not having
access to our prefrontal cortex,all that blood flowing to the
limbic system.
We are ready to fight, flightor freeze, and that's often over
time with my complex traumaclients for sure because there's
(37:46):
been danger down here instillness.
So when we enter this area, saywe're doing all right, we're
feeling connected, and then atrigger happens right, we might
move up here into dysregulationand then we might quickly jump
right over here intohyperarousal, depending on what
(38:08):
that story means to us or thelevel of threat that happens.
Dysregulation might look likeirritability or worry, friend
self-criticism.
So if you can think of a slightstressor right now, in this
moment, you might move fromirritable to anger and thinking
(38:28):
about like how did I go fromhere to here?
When did that shift happen?
What sensations do you noticein your own body?
Fight and flight have their ownstories, and so does freeze.
Freeze, when I said earlier,it's starting to.
(38:50):
Is that the tip here?
It's because it's starting topull in parasympathetic energy.
So we'll have an immobility inthe muscles but internally very
active, shaking.
There's an adaptive behaviorthat arises here.
This is the story of the childwho listens to the weight of the
(39:10):
footsteps coming down thehallway to determine if that
person is drunk or unpredictable.
Tonight that child, now anadult, that nervous system is
super alert, use and detectdysregulation in the room, start
(39:32):
adapting and people-pleasing toreduce the potential for danger
, otherwise known as fawning.
I just want to quick invite youto take a big inhale and an
exhale, maybe shake it outbefore we move on into dorsal.
And the reason we're going toshake it out is we want to get
(39:55):
that energy just kind of movingthrough.
We don't want to hold it whereit becomes anxiety, we want to
just move that through.
It's a practice we can teachour clients too.
So dorsal is our rest anddigest system.
Parasympathetic branchImmobilization happens and that
(40:17):
especially happens in thatunsafe side where there's a life
threat and that becomes againsurvival mode as well.
But the ultimate activation ifsay we're not in survival mode
and we just need ourparasympathetic branch to work,
right, we have rest, digest, youhave prayer and meditation
(40:37):
there, you have just a lovelysleep, that happens and then
moving back over into a place ofunsafeness, we start to maybe
feel burnout or you have a hardstop of you know collapsing
because of something thathappened.
(40:57):
You might have this goingthrough the motions is often
talked about or just you knowgoing through it, um, and we
have grief.
That also lies here as well,and when we're sick we
automatically have moreparasympathetic energy coming
(41:18):
into our body.
So if we haven't fully arrivedat burnout, maybe we're hovering
here in this dysregulation zone.
That might look like meh, Ilove that word, I think it was a
beautiful addition to ourverbal stories of emotions, and
(41:44):
here we also have.
If we're moving all the way downinto dorsal or hypoarousal,
what we have is a story ofappeasement.
This happens when there is alife threat, and this happens
when there is a life threat andit becomes again another
ultimate act of survival.
So we're shutting offcompletely in order to survive.
(42:13):
So things that come to mindwould be a Black man pulled over
by a police officer who'scoming in hot and heavy on a
simple traffic stop.
Might be a sex traffickingvictim keeps going back or isn't
able to escape out of thatsituation just yet it's
appeasement that happens.
(42:33):
It often in the past wasreferred to as stockholm
syndrome.
Those are the two big stories ofself-protection in our bodies.
They're actually stacked, butwe have dorsal that's associated
(42:54):
with kind of like ourintestinal area, and then
stacked on top of that would besympathetic, more located in the
lung area and then ultimatelyanother big deep breath, maybe
some movement coming up intowhat is now referred to in this
(43:15):
graphics of our window oftolerance or capacity, ventral
energy, and that is our blend ofthe parasympathetic and
sympathetic, and that state isreferred to as our social
engagement system due to theconnection it makes.
So we're taking in these cuesof joy and softness in the face.
We might have patience andcuriosity and we have full
(43:39):
access to our whole brain andthinking.
This also includes full accessto our emotions.
We're not avoiding them orshutting them down.
We're able to feel.
And that's really what we meanby regulation is that we're able
to feel everything and not shutdown or not go into activation.
(44:01):
We're able to be with thoseemotions.
Activation we're able to bewith those emotions.
We can also edge towards one orthe other and, depending on
into going into thatdysregulation zone, we don't
have to fully activate.
So to recap again, that storyfollows state.
(44:22):
If I go to the grocery store, asanother example, at the end of
the day and I am donehypoarousal right my body's
probably going to be morecollapsed on itself.
I'm not maybe making eyecontact, my voice is going to
lower, I'm exhausted and whybother?
(44:42):
So I'm going to get milk andcereal, because who cares anyway
, moving into hyper arousal andmy sympathetic state.
Oh man, I am fast.
I am annoyed at people drivingbecause they are terrible
drivers.
I'm in the store, people are inmy way.
Let's go, go go.
I'm in the store, People are inmy way.
(45:03):
Let's go, go go Grabbing things, get out.
I got stuff to do and I gethome and I was supposed to make
spaghetti but I forgot, you knowkey ingredients like noodles or
sauce, maybe both, because I'min such a hurry that I just
(45:23):
don't see everything.
And if I arrive in Ventral,I've taken a little bit of time
to sit with myself and movethings through.
I'm going to recognize oof, Imight have had a hard day today.
I'm going to go to the store,I'm going to get everything on
my list and I'm probably goingto pick up a little treat for
myself because it was a hard day.
(45:47):
And that's kind of a way to helpus distinguish in our own
selves what's going on in ourbodies or these different states
and how they arrive or look.
Another shift or another way toexplain it to clients would be a
gas in the brakes, gas beingsympathetic, right, our energy,
bra breaks being full, stop downinto that parasympathetic
(46:10):
branch of dorsal.
You know might be a littleherky-jerky, getting started to
slow down as we're starting toteach our clients how to be
still that there's safety there,get there, it just takes
practice.
Or if they're up in hyperarousal, soul gas man, we're
(46:34):
going, we're going, we'retalking fast and taking that
exhale, giving ourselves amoment, shaking it out.
That is gas and we want tolearn how to operate that car in
a much smoother motion.
And ultimately we want to be onthe highway with cruise control
(46:56):
up in ventral and with thebalanced energy right, because
cruise control slows us down aswe go down hills, speeds us up
as we go up, right, it's takingcare of those things.
It's that balance.
Before I move on and go intofurther explanation, are we good
?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
I don't see any questions and I think we're good
, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
So the capacity of a client often looks this way
right, much smaller window, much, much smaller.
You're going to start to noticethose patterns with your
clients.
So this client and many of ourclients sort of ricochet between
(47:48):
sympathetic and dorsal, goingup and down, up and down, up and
down.
And this is where the truebeauty lies with Polyvagal and
starting to support them to slowdown enough to feel a little
bit of that ventral energy andcapacity before they fully shut
down and then coming back up.
(48:10):
Is the energy safe enough tofeel and then allowing sort of a
rhythm to happen and take placein our bodies.
It's a beautiful foundation oftherapeutic work where we're
going to allow whatever modalityyou're already using or trained
in to be perfectly fine.
Polyvagal is just ourfoundation.
(48:32):
We set it on, or we set what wealready know on top of it, and
we just kind of take in thesecues and learn more about what's
going on to help support whatwe're already doing and just for
fun, if the animation will go,nope, ah.
Most of the time our clientslook like that quick slide
(48:59):
through Of sympathetic anddorsal when accessed by stress,
danger, threat, remember areboth in service of survival.
Behaviors, then, are in serviceof survival.
That might mean behavior ofworkaholics, lying behaviors,
(49:19):
disassociation.
We're just not in connectionwith ourselves.
That's all in connection withourselves.
That's all.
So here we go into mapping Withclients.
You're going to begin exploringrelationships with each state.
This is our original map,created by Deb Dana If you see
down there in 2018, this waswhat she originally used in her
(49:43):
first book.
So the relationship becomesreally important.
And how I start out and I'mgoing to invite you guys to do
the same, if you'd like makingnotes just create three little
spots for yourself, labelingthem ventral, sympathetic and
dorsal.
(50:03):
And, in practice with clients,I give them a choice of markers
or pencils and then choosingwhichever color feels right for
them.
Not to spend too much timelaboring over it, but just
thinking okay, this is whatfeels right for sympathetic,
(50:25):
this is what feels right fordorsal, this is what feels right
for sympathetic, this is whatfeels right for dorsal and this
is what feels right for ventral.
And then that's what they'lluse for each place, and we're
going to invite them to starteither in sympathetic or dorsal.
We want to end in ventralenergy.
We want to end as close toregulation as possible, even if
(50:45):
they've only completed onesection and the full hour is up
End in ventral.
Give them a minute or two tothink about some cues of safety,
regulating resources, somethinglike that glimmers, awes,
moments of awes, those types ofthings to just help them take a
pause and be able to leavesession a little safer, a little
(51:08):
better than what they were.
And this can be verydysregulating for clients to go
through.
It can be very sad for them asthey realize how often that they
spend activated and shut down.
So you'd be invited, of course,to jot a few things down for
each section and we start withthoughts that arise, emotions
(51:31):
and feelings.
How do you know you've arrivedin sympathetic?
How do you know you've arrivedin dorsal?
You might include bodysensations and thinking about
(51:52):
yourself.
Turning to relationships andlooking at sleep if I'm
activated, do I sleep well?
Am I up at 4 am?
(52:12):
If I'm shut down, am I sleepingtoo much?
Maybe I can't sleep at all?
I'm beginning to go througheach of those states there with
the intimacy and thatrelationship.
Change friendships and am Ipushing them away or pulling
(52:36):
them in?
Activity and work, food, ourspending habits, our
relationship with ourself, andhow it changes when I'm in
sympathetic and I'm activated.
You're collapsed and dorsal andshut down.
You might start to get an ideaand a picture that maybe I spend
(53:02):
more time in one state than theother.
My home away from home issympathetic.
I'm an activated person.
Dorsal feels terrible to me.
I do not enjoy being shut down.
Through the years I've learnedhow to be there, but for a long
(53:23):
time slowing down was not.
It was no good.
No, thank you.
So I just kind of you keepyourself going right and then
you fall into burnout and that'sno good.
So then you come back up andfind those ways to essentially
keep yourself activated.
And I know many people thatspend their time and their home
away from home in dorsal andthat might be even like a happy,
(53:48):
melancholic person.
You know that just lower energythat's where they're at.
Too much energy does not feelgood to their system.
So, interestingly like, if youthink about a workmate or a
spouse or maybe even your kidsthinking oof, we might have a
mismatch in our nervous systems.
They might be activated and Imight be someone who spends more
(54:11):
time more in dorsal and sotheir energy is just like,
absolutely not okay and learninghow to find the balance for
both of you guys is importantand that becomes part of our
therapeutic work too.
So this idea within the map isthat we're going to have markers
(54:32):
on here where you know how orwhat it looks like, those clues
and cues to help us begin toidentify where we're at, what
state am I in.
And as we're in there, therewe're going to ask ourselves if
I'm in sympathetic.
I am, and you fill in thatblank.
(54:56):
And the world is, and you fillin that blank.
I often tell my clients I'm notworried about labeling an
emotion so much, just need toknow where you're at on your
(55:17):
math.
Are you in sympathetic or areyou in dorsal today?
Where are you?
Because we don't have anassociation with that name or
with either name.
So we haven't made it negativeor gross or bad, it just is.
We can invite curiosity intothis place, and if we're
(55:38):
inviting curiosity, that meanswe're starting to pull in
ventral energy.
We can start to do somethingabout it.
Energy, we can start to dosomething about it.
What you'll hear me say iswhere are you and what do you
want to do about it Makes itpretty simple that way, once
(55:58):
those two areas, the sympatheticand dorsal, have started to
shape each other and you canreally get to see what those
look like, you can go on up toventral and do the same things.
How do you know you've arrived?
How do you feel when you'rebalanced, thinking about like
times you're on vacation, youknow a lot of times.
(56:19):
I have to really prompt clientsto help them find what ventral
is like, and it might be simpleas reminding them what did it
look like when you went outsideand saw the stars tonight?
Just a tiny little glimmer,that's all we need.
(56:41):
And over here on the right sidewe have spots, if you wanted,
or you could invite your clientto name what those are.
So I've had kids call differentstates like broccoli, like
cause I hated broccoli, and sothey would come in and talk
about oh, I wasn't broccoliagain today.
It's awful when we share thosewith our loved ones or dear ones
(57:15):
.
You know they can help cue usinto and create that awareness.
And the more we're aware, themore we can start to change
further with these maps.
After they've gotten you, youknow, for a while, you know
they're starting to reallyunderstand themselves and where
they're at.
You know you begin to expandthe maps with triggers and you
can expand the map with theglimmers and the ways that
(57:37):
they're activated or maybethey're exploring the stories
that happen.
I'm going to shift to a secondmap, same thing, but now we've
arrived into our window ofcapacity.
(57:58):
So this piece here.
Dan Siegel first came up withthe window of tolerance, but I
find we can tolerate a lot.
That's not great.
What we want is capacity.
So up here, hypoarousal wouldbe sympathetic state, down here
(58:19):
in survival, dorsal and righthere in the middle, so safe,
social and engaged ventral.
And this map comes from lindatie and she does a lot of great
work with polyvagal and reallyhighlights too much energy, too
little energy.
I think that's helpful forclients to kind of see.
(58:43):
This is where I'm at learningthose stories of protection and
disconnection is another way tomap.
We can go into the story theytell themselves when they're in
rage or fight, shame and shutdown the story can reinforce
(59:07):
that state.
So when we ask about I am andthe world is, we can see how
they view themselves, how theyview the world, and that starts
to make their behaviors make alittle more sense, like, oh,
okay, or you can help them putthose pictures together.
Of course it feels that waybecause people are dangerous or
(59:32):
the world is chaos.
Speaker 1 (59:33):
Why would you want to go?
Speaker 3 (59:34):
out another map.
This was released in 2023, sothey updated the hierarchy
(59:56):
instead of having it be a ladder.
Now we've got circles, we'vegot blended states and I love
that this is highlighted soyou've got your quiet moments
and intimacy.
So there's that immobilizationparasympathetic pathway and
you've got ventral, and thenwe've got this hybrid of play
and dance and sports withimmobilized energy and that
(01:00:18):
parasympathetic ventral pathway.
And then here, of course, whenthe mobilized and immobilized
meet and there has been a threatdetected, you've got that free
state of defense or, over time,if there's a higher level of
threat, you know we move fromfreeze into fawning and then, of
(01:00:43):
course, the appeasement.
One way that I explain this tofirst responders is sometimes
using the states like astoplight, and I might use terms
(01:01:06):
like tunnel vision or auditoryexclusion, and they'd be really
familiar with those happening inthat sympathetic state.
Some therapists give datescolors.
They just automatically assignthem most often blue for dorsal
and red for sympathetic.
Assign them most often blue fordorsal and red for sympathetic.
(01:01:29):
There's some other ideas.
Because I tend to work with somany folks that have had no
choice or their agency takenaway, it's very important for me
to offer and give as muchagency as possible.
So I invite them, I give themall the options or if they're
too overwhelmed like narrow itdown a little bit and I stick
(01:01:52):
with what works best for them.
So one client I might use thecircles for mapping and they may
fill those in for their ownpieces.
For another one, it might bethat previous one with linda
kai's work, or the first withjust that hierarchy.
(01:02:12):
Any questions?
Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
I don't see anything in the chat okay.
Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Well, let's move on to the best effort, which is
glimmers.
So glimmers are the opposite oftriggers, those moments of awe,
because we haven't spent a lotof time in ventral yet and we
have to use intentionality withthem.
You could have your clientstrack them in a journal or
(01:02:54):
usually on their phones, becausethey always have their phones
with them.
You could have them changetheir screen saver to a glimmer
on this lovely little photo.
Here I have some of my ownglimmers.
So down here at the bottomwe've got biscuit, my dog, and
(01:03:18):
in spite of her face, she reallydoes love swimming in the pool.
But those moments of awe, awe,places that bring us peace,
people might bring us peace.
I tend to not use people asmuch for like a regulating
(01:03:42):
resource only because,unfortunately, people pass away
or things can happen to them,and so that can.
What had been regulating in thebeginning may, through your
work, end up not being such agreat thing.
What are your guys' glimmers,as that brings us just a few
(01:04:14):
resources I wrote down.
There's so many out there.
A quick Google or Pinterestsearch.
You'll have many maps of yourown.
Rosenberg does a basic exerciseusing the vagus nerve.
Be happy to take you guysthrough that pandiculation
exercises, which there's aspelling error, um.
(01:04:35):
Beaconhouseorg from the uk hassome really great resources.
And then, of course, in themiddle we've got the polyvagal
institute.
You've got Deb Dana, who's gota ton of books.
She has one coming out, I thinkthis month.
The Polyvagal Institute wasalso mentioning there's a new
(01:04:56):
book coming out or just came outthis fall regarding autism.
I was pretty excited to snagthat book when it comes.
We've got Dr Ariel Schwartz.
She does some fantastic workwith movement and the body.
Linda Tai she's one of myfavorite people.
(01:05:18):
She's just a neat human and shehas like a 12-week offering for
kind of deep diving intoembodied and regulating
resources.
So if you want a class full ofthem, you'll definitely get
those from her and it's a veryaffordable cost.
(01:05:38):
Rebecca Case does EMDR andpolyvagal blending.
And then, of course, the traumageek and then we have a degree,
the hearts aligned.
That was a study.
So if you Google that or lookit up on YouTube, it was really
cool for all of us pet lovers.
They put a heart monitor on thedogs and their humans and then
(01:06:03):
they separated them and thenthey put them together and they
were studying and watching theirhearts and literally their
heart rates, even though theywere a little bit faster for the
dog than the humans theyaligned when they met after a
certain very short amount oftime.
So it was really cool to see.
And since then, I believeneuroscience news has also,
within this last year, releasedsomething similar the body
(01:06:27):
perception inventory.
You can find that through thePolyvagal Institute or if you
use the Safe and Sound Protocolthat assesses the state, so you
can use that as a really cooltool to help your clients.
And then, of course, safe andSound Protocol.
They are getting ready torelease the rest and restore
(01:06:51):
option Right now.
Safe and sound is just meant tobring you up into a state of
ventral, of safety, and sothrough the sounds that are
modulated and filtered soundsthat are modulated and filtered,
what it's doing is essentiallyworking with the ears and the
(01:07:12):
muscles in the ears and toningthem, and the safe and sound
moves you up.
But so many people like myself,you know, have not ever been
comfortable in dorsal, and sothere's this offering that is
releasing, I think at the end ofthis month, and it's still, you
know, again same thing usingsound to help ease our way into
(01:07:36):
dorsal.
Easing is the key word we don'twant to drop.
It doesn't feel great.
So there we are's, our, my twopractices, selah trauma
counseling center and then myown, jay rosado, where I
originally started out, and then, of course, I'm just doing
(01:07:58):
mostly intensives over there, or, um, my books jennifer, this is
wonderful.
Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
So how would you prefer people contact you?
I mean, you're giving us theinformation here, but do you
prefer phone calls?
Leave messages, because I knowpeople are going to seek you out
, especially if you dointensives on this.
I mean, I'm so relaxed justhearing you talk.
Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Well, I'm actually hoping to.
Life got a little chaotic thelast couple months, but I'm
hoping to release a whole seriesof trainings on this and
teaching people to.
There's so much missed when wego to like an EMDR weekend or a
brain spotting weekend orwhatever you're doing, unless
(01:08:44):
it's like the three-year sensorymotor training.
So there's so much missed andthat's my offering and that's
what I've been putting together.
It just had to kind of go tothe side for a minute because
between that and then I'm in abook class and then there's some
things with the practice thatI'm building, and so I'm like,
okay, something has to pause.
Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Yeah Well these are great resources.
Would we, would you be willingto let us have the PowerPoint
when we send out thecertificates?
Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
Absolutely, absolutely, and email's probably
the easiest way.
I will be honest, I hateanswering the phone.
That is a cute disconnection tome.
Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
I was asking because I saw phone numbers.
I'm like no, we shouldn't callher right, let's just email her.
Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
No no, I mean you can , I'll get back eventually.
Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
What email then?
Because I think you hadwebsites, but I didn't see an
email.
What would you like I can typeit into the chat.
Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
Oh, probably the easiest.
I can type it into the chat.
Oh, probably the easiest.
If you want me directly, it'sjust Jennifer J-E-N-N-Y-F-E-R at
salatraumacccom.
Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Okay, is that it?
Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
Awesome, I love, love , love helping people.
So absolutely reach out.
If I don't respond or you knowit's been a couple days, send it
to me again.
It's likely I'm just a littlebit overwhelmed and so I tend to
like put things like I'll getto that, I'll tend to that in a
minute.
Good, that's good.
Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
All right, well, thank you.
Thank you so much again, andyou are also in the Badass group
, and so that's how I found youSuper excited that happened.
So can folks tag you if theyhave questions as well?
Speaker 3 (01:10:40):
Absolutely, absolutely, and I can stay on a
few more minutes if people wantmore questions.
I mean, this was like a.
This was very fast, I know.
Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
I know, but you gave us so many tools and I just I
love, I love the resources youprovided as well.
So thank you again.
And so everybody I see peopleare starting to and totally good
, I know you guys are Take amoment and you know the drill.
Please click the link right now.
I just put it back into thechat and if you click it now,
(01:11:14):
you don't have to fill it outnow, but you can fill it out
once we end the meeting.
Also, recognize that if yourname on your screen, your Zoom
screen, is not the name name youregistered with or there's some
sort of a mismatch,certificates may be delayed.
Our next presentation I'm superexcited about if you're a
(01:11:34):
supervisor, we have AmandaEsquivel, who will talk to us
about actual stuff you can useduring supervision techniques
and ideas and drills.
And then I think we have a kindof a coup or not a coup,
nevermind, but in December wehave a really cool thing that's
what I meant to say, a coolthing happening in December.
(01:11:57):
We have Dr Melissa McEffrey.
She is a documentation queen,as far as I know, so she's going
to talk to us aboutdocumentation and I've asked her
to include information about ai, so you won't want to miss that
, jennifer.
Thank you again so much.
I'm dr kate walker and I'mabout to hit the end button.
Uh, and you guys grab the link.
(01:12:19):
Have a wonderful evening, go dogreat things and eat a good
dinner, take care.
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