September 11, 2025 • 44 mins
A young woman's devotion to faith leads her to a Mennonite community in Farmington, New Mexico, where she thrives writing church music and working for a religious publication. Her peaceful life comes to an abrupt end one January evening when she disappears while retrieving materials from her church. What unfolds next reveals the dark intersection of technology, hatred, and random violence.
Sasha Krause was known for her beautiful writing, linguistic talents, and dedication to her faith. Originally from Texas, she had found purpose working at the Lamp and Light publication in the Mennonite community. When her roommates realized she hadn't returned home one night, they found her car still at the church but her purse at home—only her cell phone was missing. The tight-knit religious community immediately mobilized to find her, but their search would end in heartbreak.
The discovery of Sasha's body in an Arizona national park a month later created more questions than answers. Why would anyone target a member of a pacifist religious community? How did she end up hundreds of miles from where she disappeared? With no obvious suspects, investigators made an extraordinary decision to subpoena cell phone data from all networks, searching for any device that had traveled the same path as Sasha's phone.
This digital breadcrumb trail led them to Mark Gooch, an Air Force airman with a disturbing secret—he harbored an inexplicable hatred toward Mennonites despite being raised in the faith himself. Text messages revealed he had been "surveilling" communities before driving seven hours to commit his crime. The randomness of his selection of Sasha as a victim makes this case all the more chilling—she was simply in the wrong place when his hatred found its target.
Through forensic evidence, digital detective work, and the killer's own mistakes, justice was eventually served with a life sentence. Yet nothing can erase the tragedy of a brilliant, kind woman whose life was cut short by senseless hatred. Join us as we examine how modern technology both facilitated a heinous crime and ultimately brought its perpetrator to justice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome all of you wine and true crime lovers.
I'm Brandi and I'm Chris andthis is Texas wine and True
Crime.
Thank you for being here,friends, for tonight's episode,
the Case of Sasha Krauss.
Hey, Chris.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey Brandi.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
All right.
So tonight we are enjoyingTenat by our friends at William
Chris Vineyards.
This is produced and bottledright out of High Texas.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
And this went great with the dish High Texas, high
Texas, I mean like the Texashigh plains.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
H-Y-E.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
That's how you pronounce it, right?
Yes, that's how you pronounceit.
That's probably high, I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I think of high like from Raising Arizona.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Oh, high Might have spelled it the same way.
Might have All right.
What did you pair withtonight's tonight?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
So tonight I always tend to lean towards something
kind of robust and a lot offattier dishes, but also kind of
, you know, heavier dishes, andso, in the spirit of New Mexico,
we had a little pozole, spiritof new mexico.
We may have a little pozole,and so I did have some ribeyes
that we made.
This typically made withchicken if it's green, or pork
if it's reds, but we were makingred.
So I used essentially somereally delicious ribeyes and
some chamayo peppers straighthere from new mexico, but very
(01:42):
hearty dish, a little hominy it.
It was great the weather's juststarting to cool off here and
so I thought it went really wellwith the wine, just, you know,
velvety, lush, rich wine with akind of a velvety, lush, rich
dish.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
It was delicious, was delicious.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It sticks to your ribs, that's for sure.
So I'm slowly but surelylearning some of the recipes of
the region.
And may I say, and I made thatbefore, I just make green a lot,
so I don't typically make red.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, and may I say the garnish on top and your
design.
It was just a beautiful pictureIf you haven't seen pictures of
Chris's pozole, check ours.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
It was nice, it was symmetry at its finest.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
It was Well.
Thank you for making awonderful dinner.
Thank you, william Chris formaking a wonderful tonight, all
right.
Well, chris, this is our firstcase out of New Mexico that
we're going to do.
This is about a 27-year-oldgirl named Sasha Krause who
(02:47):
lived in the Mennonite communityin Farmington, new Mexico.
So she's originally from Texas.
So I actually didn't know thatuntil we started kind of looking
into this case, but I believeshe was born either in Temple or
somewhere near Temple Texasmaybe in Temple Texas and then
she lived in Grandview, texas,for a while, was teaching Sunday
(03:09):
school, living with her family,and then she decided that she
was going to apply for a job atthe Lamp and Light publication,
which is in Farmington, newMexico, which is also on a
Mennonite community compoundthat other Mennonites live.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And I believe there's two of those here in Farmington
that are both associated withone another.
Okay, kind of West Coast, eastCoast kind of thing, when you
look at the proximity of oneanother on the map.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And so I think too, when we initially were talking
about this case in Mennonites,we weren't super familiar with
what that was.
And so I think, initially, whenI think of that, we were, you
know, I think of Amish and it isessentially the same thing.
I think you know, in kind oflooking too, it is kind of a
(03:59):
different.
There's different most of thetime, I think, with Amish
community.
Amish communities that we'remore familiar with you know,
media, movies and whatnot.
You see the horse-drawn buggies, carriages, things like that.
Yes, not any reliance ontypical.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
You know the comforts that people you know Sure yeah,
tvs, things like that, carsyeah, technology is one of the
big things.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
But there also are Mennonite communities,
apparently, that embrace thesetechnologies, that's right.
So that is, I think, more alongthe lines of kind of this
community that was here inFarmington.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Well, and they talked about how they created their
own rules.
Right, she did have a cellphone.
We know that she had a cellphone.
She wrote a lot.
I mean she wrote music for thechurch.
So I think they said she hadstacks of journals in her room
and so many pages of writtenpoems and words and her parents
(04:54):
would say that she studiedlanguages.
It was really something thatcame really easy for her and she
enjoyed it and this was part ofher coming to Farmington.
She wanted to work for apublication company in the
Mennonite community.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I mean, how great is that To be able to translate in
some of those languages?
And, looking at it, they had apublication company which
obviously requires electricitymachines, things to do that's
not typically, and so they were.
I'd say probably that more.
I was about to use the wordadvanced.
It has nothing to do with that,but just a little more use of
technology to navigate societyand I also don't want people to
(05:31):
think that this was like someshut off community.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You can drive through there and you can.
I mean they are welcoming, theywelcome people to the church.
It's not like I think whenpeople hear the word compound
they think of like David Koreshright?
This is not we're talking abouta very loving community of
people who support it.
And not only that they wantedpeople to come and visit.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
And I found it was interesting that people
converted to this.
I would have assumed justthat's.
It is a lifestyle, and so youwould think that most now people
leave the church like anychurch for that matter.
But the notion of someone youknow, either a young adult or an
adult for that matter decidingto kind of join in that being
(06:19):
accepting that I think is kindof cool.
But you know, that was somethingI didn't know.
That that is, like I said, veryopen, accepting not.
I think it's kind of cool, butthat was something I didn't know
that is like I said, very open,accepting, not inclusive.
I mean sorry, not exclusive.
Exclusive, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
All right.
So she was here in hercommunity, she was working for
the church, she was doing Sundayservice and had gone to the
church to get some books andthings she was taking with her
(06:50):
to Colorado the next morning.
So this was a Friday night,going into a Saturday morning,
and she was going there to teach.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I'm assuming, another Mennonite community within
Colorado.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, and people just said she was happy.
I mean, you know they reallycouldn't find.
You know.
This is why, when she firstwent missing, you know they were
struggling with you know whathappened to this young girl.
She's seen and people knowwhere she's going and then she's
gone and so it was.
(07:23):
But, like you said, this is acommunity that is first of all
took this very seriously, veryquickly when she went missing
and in regard also to thatcommunity which we're going to
kind of talk about later, is, Idid not know that there are
certain professions thatMennonites don't believe you
(07:44):
should be involved in.
One they don't join themilitary.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
They are pacifists by nature.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
yes, yes, they don't become police officers.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Once again pacifists by nature.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, so it is.
I learned a lot.
I mean, I learned a lot aboutthis case, I learned a lot about
this community and I'll tellyou what people kind of reached
out when they knew we were goingto do this case people who live
over in that area and how muchthis really did affect people in
Farmington.
And it wasn't that long ago Imean, we're really only talking,
(08:16):
you know, five years ago.
So just just really sad andjust such a senseless murder and
abduction which we're going totalk about.
All right.
So she is here for about Chris,I think she was here about 19,
20 months somewhere around there, a little less than two years
already, working and being apart of the community.
(08:37):
She did live with two otheryoung women in a house on the
property, in a house and, youknow, on the property, and again
, she just was a good person andpeople really didn't have
anything bad to say about her.
They really couldn't thinkabout anybody, of any enemies
who would do this to her.
(08:57):
But, and thankfully, herroommates kind of took action
when they realized she had notcome home.
So the night in question whichis January 18th 2020, chris, she
goes to the Mennonite churchagain to get some books and
pamphlets that she's taking withher to Colorado the next
morning.
Okay, roommate realizes she'snot there.
Um, sometime after midnight hershe's not in her room.
(09:19):
Um, they know that she had goneto the church about seven
o'clock to pick up thosepamphlets.
Um, they were starting to.
She was, you know, the.
The one roommate was concerned.
She then tells the otherroommate Now, they're both
concerned, they're calling herphone, they're trying to figure
out where she's at.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Because, I mean, I think too, a big part of that is
, um, you know, not a remotearea, but it is where this
church is located.
They're just not like you don'tjust walk yeah, I was gonna say
you don't just drive to thestore.
And I would say also probablypretty typical in this community
that people probably went outas a group as well too.
(09:57):
I mean, in some respects I meanfor her just to want not be
present, and you know, that'svery abnormal.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
She's not just going to wander off, no, and they had
a curfew this is another thing10 o'clock curfew, which
apparently is a big deal if youbreak curfew in the Mennonite
community, as from just fromwhat I gathered.
I did think the curfew was alittle interesting, but I wasn't
sure that was across the board,because I mean I mean, and if
we're wrong about some of this,please let us know, because
we're learning about thiscommunity as well.
But, chris, I did hear this iswhy the two roommate, the two
(10:28):
young girls, did not go, andwhen I say girls, I don't mean
like 15.
I mean like in their, you know,in their 20s.
They didn't go looking for herbecause they're not supposed to.
They're really not supposed togo out and wander around to.
They're really not supposed togo out and wander around and
maybe that's also probably alittle bit of a safety thing in
taking care of one another ishaving that curfew, I mean.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I don't know, there could be other reasons for that.
I could really.
I mean, I didn't look that hard, but I did look to see about
the curfew thing and I couldn'treally see anything that that
spanned across, you know.
I mean she's 27, clearly anadult.
That's just to cost the boardfor everybody.
You don't have to be in yourroom.
(11:15):
Don't go out.
That's right.
There's bad things at nightyeah.
Which clearly we learned.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Chris, they do find her car at the church.
So, chris, they do find her carat the church, which was very
worrisome because she's not atthe church and her car is there.
There was nothing around thecar to make them think there was
any sort of foul play, but oncethe girls tell her supervisor
(11:43):
from the publishing company,that's who they went to.
He then gathered a bunch ofpeople and they start going look
for her.
I'm sure they probably lookedfor her for a few hours at least
, and then, when they realizedthat she's really nowhere to be
found, her car has now beenfound.
This is raising a lot ofconcern, and so they decide to
(12:08):
call authorities.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, I mean even think in proximity, that's um
there's a river close by thereum but it is very deserty, so I
mean, I could see what you mightthink if somebody was to wander
out, because it's very dark toovery and so you easily getting
lost or something wanderingaround initially, but I guess
they quickly realized thatwasn't the case for a few hours
(12:45):
and then they call authorities.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
So I'm going to maybe guesstimate.
This is probably like 5, 6 am.
Now the San Juan Countyofficials come out.
They start talking and askingquestions.
You know, was she prone to runaway?
Was she prone to be a nefariousactivity?
Is it like her?
Was she involved in anyrelationships?
Right, they just want to knowabout her and and and.
(13:07):
Immediately they realize herpurse is in her house.
So she didn't have to take herpurse, her debit cards, credit
cards, everything was left inher room.
The only thing she had on herwas her cell phone.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, I thought that was an interesting notion as
well.
As far you know, taking thecell phone too, just to walk
from um, I I kind of.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, I know it's a house, yeah she drove, though
her car was found at the churchbut I mean, yeah, I mean I guess
it's just, but you're not going.
It's pretty well, no I wouldn'thave taken her.
I wouldn't I was thinking aboutthat like I wouldn't have taken
my purse.
I wouldn't take have taken mypurse to the church.
If I was pulling something andI lived in the community and I
was going back to my house, Iwould see as a woman.
(13:50):
The whole idea of the purse isthat she didn't, because if
she's missing and she's not onthe property in the community,
they think well, she left, Maybeshe just took off and didn't
want to be in the Mennonitecommunity anymore.
Well, why would she do that andnot take her purse and credit
cards?
How is she going to survive?
So, that's why they thought well, this is strange, her purse and
(14:13):
credit cards and everything ishere, but her vehicle is here.
So did someone come pick her up?
Well, you know it like that waybecause she's not on the
property.
They've searched the property,but then if she was leaving with
someone, why not take her purse?
It just didn't make, it didn'tmake any sense, and so they were
(14:35):
really just really strugglingum to figure out.
You know what could havepossibly um happened to this
girl, chris, eventually, theyhave to tell her parents in
Texas that she is missing.
And you know, again, they werejust puzzled by the fact that
she was missing and there wasreally just no answers of you
(14:58):
know what could have happened toher.
So at this point, you know, soat this point, you know, we now
have 24 hours going by, we nowhave 48 hours going by and they
are really starting to try tofigure out, you know what
possibly could have happened toher.
They've got the car.
They know that.
You know, did anyone see her atthat church?
(15:21):
Now, chris, there was acoworker who did go to the
church that night.
He had gone in, he had claimednot to see her.
He said he had stopped for gasand we know now that this person
had nothing to do with it.
But at the beginning, whenpolice are doing this, they're
(15:42):
investigating the possibility ofsomeone in this community
probably being involved becauseshe didn't leave the property.
And so if you don't leave theproperty and all of your stuff
is found on the property exceptyou, I mean, police are
instantly going to thinksomebody who knew her did this.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
That's kind of to me, because this church and the
publishing company are a couplehundred yards away from one
another oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So you know, said sure luck, she had it, of course
, but I mean, and these are thekinds of cases where it's just
like gosh and nobody seesanything right.
And it's like these.
I, we did jennifer kessie case,you know, on the last episode,
and that was daylight, andnobody sees anything of a girl
(16:36):
getting abducted.
Or you know they saw a car.
But I mean gosh, I mean it'sjust so heartbreaking to think
that she felt so safe, so secure, which she should have.
That's why this community iswhat it is is because there is a
sense of safety, a sense ofguard being down, which, gosh,
(16:58):
what a beautiful way to live.
And then for this to happen,it's an alibi.
But they were very they.
They just they thought hisstory just was a little strange.
(17:20):
How could you have not seen herif you were kind of in the same
building, kind of at the sametime, but he had claimed not to
see her?
Now you always, 27 year old,young, young woman, you know
relationships are happening.
You have other women, youngwomen, in this community.
So there was a question of youknow, did someone, was she
(17:45):
involved with somebody?
Did somebody, was she having arelationship with someone?
I mean, police tend to movethis way when it comes to young,
27-year-old girls missing.
Well, and I think that'sprobably a they think sexual
crime a lot when you're kind ofdealing with this kind of
scenario.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
But I also think too that with this community that
does, you know, like I said,there are midnight communities
that don't really interminglemuch with the town.
They live more rural, theymight go in town for supplies
and that, but you know, she hadher own car.
These people had their own cars.
They did have to go out shop,do things within town.
(18:21):
So I think, yes, that is alikely scenario.
Like was she out?
Because that is some of thereasons that people do leave
that lifestyle is because theywant to live a more, um, you
know, live a life that's not asrestricted, I guess, with some
things.
And so you know that is alikely scenario.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
So they're really trying to figure out what
happened to her, Because at thispoint, it's just an abduction
she is missing.
They are trying to follow theleads, they are interviewing
people.
They are, you know, cell phoneis not found and they are, you
know, trying to figure out whereher phone was paying.
(19:04):
I mean, God, they did so muchcell phone data in this case and
really this is how they got him.
And on February 21st 2020, um,a woman who is camping in a
national park near Flagstaff,Arizona, um, unfortunately finds
the body of Sasha Krause Um,hands are bound with tape in
(19:28):
front.
She's still in her gray dressthat people had seen her in, uh,
when she had gone, um to go getthe pamphlets at the church,
and they actually had toidentify her by fingerprint
analysis.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So you did again mention the cell phone data.
So this time all Farmington hasis that there's like two towers
.
They see it, that's it.
But they do know that, theyknow it's pinged on two towers
that are in the general ofascending, and then that's just
kind of where the trail goescold.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, one in the community and one at the four
corners, the actual where themonument is.
Yeah, which?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
is roughly 60 miles from there.
But that's just kind of it Justkind of vanish, not trace Once
again her car's there.
So yeah, that's why reallythere's just literal, just a
dead end yeah, um, police haveto notify her parents in the
mennonite community.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Um, you know, I can only imagine her parents are in
texas family.
I believe she had six brothersand sisters, um, and then you
have the whole Mennonitecommunity that have been
searching for her, and I knowthat they were just hoping for a
very different outcome andagain that sense of safety.
I just it's just because thisgirl was like hunted, because
(20:51):
this girl was like hunted, andit's just so very difficult to
you know, when you find out whatactually happens in this case,
in the extreme.
You know, gosh, aren't weliving this right now?
This extreme mindset and thisextremeness of anger, animosity,
hate.
You know you have to take itout on someone and you know,
(21:15):
from what I've done in myresearch, I think he had some,
probably he had a lot of issuesgrowing up.
He came from a Mennonite family.
I, him and his brothers,basically all took jobs that the
Mennonites didn't believe youshould have.
One I was in technology, theother one was a cop, and then of
(21:36):
course he, mark Gooch, whowe're talking about, was an
airman in the Air Force, and soyeah, nothing.
It's just so random and sad theydon't seem to indicate, I think
even in his interview when heis eventually caught.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
It's just more so, I think, as he states.
Well, even back to what I hadstated earlier about people
converting to this religion, hisfather had converted basically
the family into this and he hadalways felt that they weren't
accepted within the communitybecause they weren't like born
(22:15):
into it.
They were kind of outsiders whocame in, but also too a lot of
it, you know it is.
This is, of course, inWisconsin.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
who knows how strict or rigorous, you know, I mean
it's yeah.
I do want to say that it wasn't.
He wasn't like raised in NewMexico, he was raised in
Wisconsin and it's yeah minute.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, I was like and he had no relation, no
connection to this church.
It's just he had a badexperience along with his
brothers and left it yeah but hedid have um quite this amount
of disdain for the religion hedid to the point where I mean
obviously you see what he endedup doing.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So yeah, and I think I have enough therapist friends
and psychiatrist friends thatthey would probably tell me that
a lot of it anger is probablystemmed from his childhood
hating his parents for umbasically using what his father
used on the sand was like.
If you don't want to go fromdarkness to light, then you're
shunned right.
So you in the dark, you're inthe darkness, you as a person
(23:13):
are in the darkness and you'vegot to come to the light.
Until you do that, you cannotbe baptized as a Mennonite.
So I would say my psychiatristfriends would say that this
probably is but he was not agood kid.
Apparently he had a lot oftrouble.
Police went back to Wisconsinonce they started to get on his
tail, which we'll talk about,that cell phone data and
(23:34):
actually how he was caught, butthey said that he had a lot of
issues even growing up.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Since his dad converted to that we I don't
know what, how old him or hisbrothers were, I mean, if they
were well, he was well.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
When this happened he was 22 years old, so you can
imagine, probably within the 10years before that, let's say
yeah, who knows, he could havebeen a young.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
He could have been a young kid.
He could have been amiddle-aged kid Could have been
a middle schooler.
We don't know that, but I guesswhat I'm saying is imagine, if
you, I mean imagine our kid whohas an iPad in their eyeball at
least a little bit of the day,right?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, access to TV.
You've got all this freedom andyou're doing all these things
and just, and then your fatherdecides we're gonna go live
because his father was a dairyfarmer.
They're already living kind ofa rural, but yeah that you're
gonna restrict all these things.
I mean, if that's obviously theolder kids are is much more of
a.
I could see a lot more pushbackon that, sure, because it
(24:33):
wasn't like there was a.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Or when they're old enough to push back.
I guess also, you know, whenthey come of age and they want
to do something.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Well, that was the other thing, what they had, that
crazy series like Amish GoneWild or something, because
that's kind of the thing, likewhen you become a certain age,
you have the option to go in themore strict.
That option to go um in the morestrict, that is, like you know,
the horse and buggy style, butto go and experience oh what the
city life is, what you know,and then, and then you kind of
(25:00):
have that option, uh, to decideif you want to come back to the
community or go out and try thesecular world quote unquote, so
to speak, and so you know well,chris, one thing she did was
write songs and lyrics.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Um I well, I got really choked up when people
sang her songs that she wrote ather.
They had a service for her andI mean, it's just like you know.
You have a girl who was foundwith a gunshot wound to the back
of the head, a 22 caliber.
She had blunt force trauma.
There were no defensive wounds,according to the medical
(25:38):
examiner found.
Usually they see like bruisingon the arms of the fingers and
again, you had mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
That they're pacifists yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
And so you know, did?
I don't think we'll ever knowthe answer to that question.
I don't.
We don't know.
We know he subdued her right.
We know he kidnapped her fromthe property he had driven from
the Air Force Base in Arizona.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Seven hours away.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Seven hours.
Came to the Mennonite communityin Farmington.
And you know why.
I think he came here, chris,instead of the one closer to
where he was, because he couldhave found a Mennonite community
much closer than seven hours.
I think he felt like the closerhe stayed of where he was, he
was going to get caught.
I think he had to leave thestate to feel like more secure
(26:29):
about what he was actually aboutto do.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, according.
So you and I debate this umcause, according to text
messages, him and his brother,and in testimony to even when he
was an issue by the policeofficer, that he his state, why
would he be up there inFarmington?
And I think we we still neededto get in discussion on how they
even caught this guy too.
We haven't gotten there yet,but you know that he was out
(26:55):
trying to seek some guidancefrom the Mennonite community.
So according to him, he visitedthree churches.
We don't know, but he also.
We found there were texts wedidn't find but the text
messages to his brother abouthow he was essentially
surveilling Mennonites.
And so was he.
Did he stop at a few?
Did this just?
(27:15):
I mean, because there is quitea few communities between upper
Arizona, utah, western NewMexico.
There is a lot of choices,you're right.
And also even there that wasone of the things too the cops
were asking why didn't you justgo down the street?
Why'd you drive here?
It just was it random, Did yousay, like you said, did he get
(27:39):
so far away?
That's certainly not the firstone.
I mean, I just can't imaginethat's the first one you find in
New Mexico.
We'd have to really look andsee.
Oh no, I think he mapped themout, I think he knew exactly
where he was going and lookingwhen he was at Phoenix, correct?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Well, the Air Force Base, yeah, so seven hours away.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
You've got to drive pretty deep into New Mexico, so
you're going to pass a lot ofthem.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So like.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I said said why is this one?
Because he could have actuallyprobably driven the closer ones
in new mexico.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
You know this is a pretty far one because
farmington's up in the farnorthwest corner.
I think, and some of that to meis getting the courage to do
what you're about to do maybe hedid.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I think that is very likely that he did go and try to
see she.
Um, I mean well, why you her?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Well, why are you going over state line, right?
So if you know you're goingback to Arizona, which is where
he lived, then he's going toprobably feel like maybe he's
possibly throwing them off if hedoes this in another state and
goes back to another one.
He wasn't very smart, he made,I mean, it really wasn't that
hard to find.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I'm just saying if you got to Google map and you
said I want to go to another.
I want to go to another stateand find a Mennonite church.
I think you would have gonethrough a lot of them.
So did he go through a lot inNew Mexico?
This just happened to bebecause I mean seriously, like
there was days of doing this.
Did he work up the courage andeventually stop at this church?
I mean, it is not so random inthat he is looking for someone
(29:11):
in the M community to take outhis anger on, but totally random
that it happened to be thischurch this time of night.
How did he know?
Or did he go there?
Because that's the other thingtoo.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Him using the term surveilling in his text messages
, he could have been out thereall day just waiting for
somebody in the right momentjust to see.
Well, they actually know thathe got there.
So her phone and his phone.
Okay.
So let's stop here for a secondbecause I think we need to.
We know her body is found inthe National Park.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Oh yeah, we need to discuss how he was found.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, so her body's found Again.
Autopsy showed Um little to nodefensive wounds, um a gunshot
to the head, blunt force traumato the head.
Her arm, her wrists were tiedin the front of her.
She was fully clothed, her hairwas still done, she was laying.
She looked like she had laid,had been laid by a bush Um and a
(30:05):
woman walking through thenational park during the day um
found her through the nationalpark during the day um found her
.
So what police were reallytrying to figure out is here's
what they had on her phone,chris they actually knew her
path right because they knewwhere now she was found.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So they arizona police did not know that.
They did not know that untilbecause she was not fitting the
profile of any missing reportsright, they put it out to new
mexico that's right, that's whenthey learn, you know, identify
that.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
This based on the dress and everything yeah, and
then they identify her byfingerprints.
So fingerprint analysis isactually how they realized it
was her um.
But they, because of one, theyknew where she was living um,
they knew where she was nowfound.
So how did she get that faraway, with no vehicle?
(31:03):
Who could she have possiblybeen with if nobody in that
community had actually left withher um?
And the only thing?
So I didn't even know that theycould do this.
Did you know that they couldsubpoena all cell phone networks
?
I mean, we're talking thousandsand thousands and thousands and
(31:26):
thousands of phones, right,because what they were trying to
do is figure out the one cellphone maybe not, maybe two, who
knows?
But this was one cell phonethat had the same exact path
from where her phone started inthe community, went to the four
corners monument, which wasabout 60 miles away from
farmington, and then down to thenational park by flagstaff, and
(31:50):
they only found one.
But they did this by cell phone, and that is how they found
22-year-old.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Mark Gooch, when they learned of her path and then
saw this other one.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yes, I mean this is how they found him.
So by this time they are, youknow, I mean, crazy.
They found it this way.
But I mean my gosh, whattechnology can do and the
ability to find him and thisphone.
And so what they start doing isthey basically just start
(32:21):
trying to figure out.
You know, why do they know eachother?
How do they know each other?
Or how did she end up down here?
So that's when they realize,okay, he's from um, you know,
they start realizing that he'sfrom wisconsin and they start
doing research.
They know he's an airman, right, and so it's like they.
(32:44):
Then they're like wait, thisguy, he doesn't really have any
criminal history here.
He is in the military, in theair force.
Um, there is, is that thunder?
That's okay.
And I and so they were like,okay, the cell phone matches up,
but I don't know if it's thisguy.
(33:07):
So they were a little, I think,think, taken back that his
phone is the one that pings withhers throughout this whole time
.
But they finally decide to goand talk to him and once they do
, they bring him in, they askhim some questions what were you
(33:27):
doing?
And by this time they kind ofknow that they have all this
information.
And police typically don't justlike lawyers, they typically
don't ask questions they alreadydon't know the answer to.
So they already knew theanswers to these questions.
They're just wanting to seewhat his answers are.
And immediately investigatorsknow he's lying.
Right, he says that why did yougo to the church?
Well, I went there to look atchurch times.
(33:49):
Well, really that's interesting.
Why would you drive seven hourswhen there's plenty of
Mennonite churches by where youare and if not, within a certain
amount of radius of whereyou're living?
So it really just wasn't addingup.
And then they ask him you know,did you travel to Farmington?
He admits, yes, that he did andthat he was looking at the
(34:12):
church times.
And I mean, again, he wasshowing absolutely no emotion,
he was basically just making nosense.
I mean, they had him.
They had him.
They immediately arrest him,chris.
They find, while they'retalking to him, they are getting
a warrant to search his vehicle.
(34:34):
Right, they find some gloves.
They find a receipt that he hadhis car detailed, I think
within 24 to 48 hours of heronce.
They actually found her, yes,and then you know they find,
find, I think they find somegloves and just other other
(34:57):
stuff.
Okay, but they know this guydid it, they feeling good about
this.
It's a lot of circumstantialevidence right now but it's
pretty powerful circumstantialevidence.
And again, you talked about thetext messages to his brothers.
So I mentioned one was a cop,one was an IT and then he
himself was an airman.
And you know they, you know,gosh, I don't know, it is hard
(35:25):
to kind of say they foundenjoyment hating Mennonites
because they did, they literallydid, they would text each other
their disdain for them and Ijust it's very hard for me to
wrap my head around just notliking something because you
don't, I don't know, I don'teven know.
(35:46):
It's just so unbelievablesometimes when you think about
it, because this guy literallydrove to Farmington, to this
community.
Why do racist people hateanother race?
Sometimes, when you think aboutit, because this guy literally
drove to farmington, I mean, whythis community?
Why?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
do racist people hate another race I know it's never
done anything to them, it's justhatred, it's just hatred
doesn't have to be anythingspecific.
That happened.
Yeah, who knows?
It is pretty, pretty strangeand kind of disgusting, but yeah
, I mean just even theirmessages back and forth and what
is?
Even his brother.
And this guy's a police officer, which is so crazy too, because
(36:16):
, you know, this is the guywho's supposed to be helping
people, and he's a pretty nastyperson too, as we do learn yeah
and oh, I mean it is kind ofwild they're texting, even when
mark gooch went to, when youknow ends up in prison.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
His brother and him are having conversations over
the prison phone line like noone's listening.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Which seemed that to me struck me as so odd.
His brother is a police officer.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Well, he was talking to the TIT brother because he
asked him to erase his phone.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I know the other brother is a police officer.
You would think that he wouldtell the other like if you're
speaking on the phone, becareful what you say and talk
about.
They record your freaking phoneconversations.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
I don't know, unless you're talking to your attorney.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
So I mean it's.
It's almost like having a cellphone.
We all, america's dumbestcriminals.
I guess he thought he was goingso far away and they would
never ever be connected to this,but I mean, once again,
technology technology wins.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I mean, well, and I'll tell you, the biggest piece
of that technology and cellphone was the fact that his
phone was sitting in like in thesame spot for about three to
four hours, which was in thecommunity, for about three to
four hours, which was in thecommunity.
So they know that he wassitting waiting to abduct or
hurt someone and they also knowthat he was actually text
(37:41):
messaging his brothers duringthis time.
Now, whether or not hisbrothers knew he was going to
commit murder, I don't know.
I don't think police reallycould ever say that they were in
on it or knew what he was goingto do.
There wasn't exact messageslike I'm about to do this, but
he was sitting there waiting toabduct someone and that's what
(38:01):
he did.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I would think.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
They believe he got out of his car, tied her wrist
together and put her in thevehicle.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Your brother's a police officer.
You tell him you're surveillinga group of people that you hate
.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I know is his brother a freaking idiot, does he not
know you don't think they're allidiots in my opinion that he's
going to do some either hurtsomebody, maybe not kill
somebody, but it's there to dosome malice and that's just so
crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
His brother's almost kind of egging him on.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
You know, yeah, about the whole thing they're all
disgusting, um, frankly so, um,okay, so even in the, they did
not know each other.
Stranger on stranger crimes arethe hardest to solve.
Um, I am very glad there isjustice in this case, because
(38:49):
this could have turned out verydifferently.
Thankfully there was a lot ofcell phone data and they could
get him.
But they believe he drove thatseven hours Now.
Whether or not he had plannedto do it somewhere else, whether
or not he chickened out andjust kept driving, whether he
had to kind of get himself ampedup, chris, whether he had to
kind of get himself amped up,chris, to get to the point to
(39:13):
abduct someone and then murderthem.
You know, we talk about that andhear that a lot about from our
police officer friends, thatsometimes they chicken out right
, these abductors and murderers.
They might only start with asexual assault and then the next
person, next victim, it goes,but this guy abducts her.
(39:35):
We know she had no defensivewounds.
The worst case scenario in mymind is that this woman just
stood there and prayed out loudand this shit happened to her.
It's it.
It just makes my skin crawl andit makes me cry when I think
about this, because I I justit's just unbelievable that if
(39:57):
she did Chris, if she didn'tfight back, if, if there were no
defensive wounds that were seen, whether she did or not,
whether he had subdued orsomehow I don't think we'll ever
really know all of thosedetails um, I possibly could get
um a foia and police reportfrom farmington and read about
this, but but again your mindjust thinks, my god, this girl
(40:22):
had did not see this coming andyou and she's probably in shock.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
It's an odd group, a group of people to hate,
especially given their fact thatthey don't really I mean, she
gave her life to God.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Well, not even that.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
It's just the fact that they're just as a group.
Pacifism is widely taught, youknow.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
We don't meet violence with violence, and so
it's just of all the people youcould probably have ill will
against.
It is just so odd too.
That's also what kind of makesit.
So it's all sad, but just evenso too.
Like why aren't people thathurt anybody?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Just so unfortunate and so senseless.
We know, chris, he returned tothe body.
We know that he went back tothe national park.
They don't know what he did.
They don't know if he tooksomething off of her.
They don't know if he went tomove her.
They never.
I just couldn't.
I don't see where he ever saidwhy he he went back, but cell
(41:29):
phone data shows that heactually had gone back to the
scene of the crime.
He also gave a friend the gun.
So once he had been arrested,the friend saw this and heard
about it and he immediatelycalled police and said that he
had the weapon.
(41:50):
Well, the simultaneously timeof this is when he's asked his
brother to go and actually getthe weapon.
Police know this and theyactually put a sting on the
guy's house.
The brother shows up to pick upthe weapon and that's when
actually the brother is arrestedand you know he flips on him
(42:11):
and testifies against him at histrial.
So the father gets on the stand.
The father, mark Gooch, alsogets on the stand and again he
testified that you know justwhat it was like for him and his
family in the Mennonitecommunity.
The brother gets on the standand you know, I think one of the
(42:32):
questions he's asked was youknow, did your brother hate
Mennonites?
And he's like, well, I don'tknow how my brother really felt
about Mennonites and you know,we know that's a bunch of
bullshit and really how all ofthe brothers kind of felt about
again targeting you know yourprofiling and targeting in your
messaging and not only that withyour words to your own family.
(42:55):
And again, chris, mypsychiatrist friends, a group of
brothers who are raised inMennonites.
Now all three have jobs thatyou're not supposed to have as a
Mennonite and then you hatethem as well.
Like that is all psychologicalshit that we could probably
bring someone on and talk about,but that's not going to be us.
But there was a lot there tohear in the courtroom.
(43:17):
The judge said this murder ofthis beautiful young lady was
the most senseless crime she hadever been involved in.
She simply didn't deserve thisand, again, a sense of safety in
(43:38):
a community where she felttotally at home.
Mark Gooch was convicted offirst degree murder.
He is serving life in prisonwithout the possibility of
parole.
Until next time.
Friends, stay safe, have funand cheers to next time.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Cheers.
Thank you.
Welcome all of you wine and true crime lovers.
I'm Brandi and I'm Chris andthis is Texas wine and True
Crime.
Thank you for being here,friends, for tonight's episode,
the Case of Sasha Krauss.
Hey, Chris.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey Brandi.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
All right.
So tonight we are enjoyingTenat by our friends at William
Chris Vineyards.
This is produced and bottledright out of High Texas.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
And this went great with the dish High Texas, high
Texas, I mean like the Texashigh plains.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
H-Y-E.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
That's how you pronounce it, right?
Yes, that's how you pronounceit.
That's probably high, I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I think of high like from Raising Arizona.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Oh, high Might have spelled it the same way.
Might have All right.
What did you pair withtonight's tonight?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
So tonight I always tend to lean towards something
kind of robust and a lot offattier dishes, but also kind of
, you know, heavier dishes, andso, in the spirit of New Mexico,
we had a little pozole, spiritof new mexico.
We may have a little pozole,and so I did have some ribeyes
that we made.
This typically made withchicken if it's green, or pork
if it's reds, but we were makingred.
So I used essentially somereally delicious ribeyes and
some chamayo peppers straighthere from new mexico, but very
(01:42):
hearty dish, a little hominy it.
It was great the weather's juststarting to cool off here and
so I thought it went really wellwith the wine, just, you know,
velvety, lush, rich wine with akind of a velvety, lush, rich
dish.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
It was delicious, was delicious.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
It sticks to your ribs, that's for sure.
So I'm slowly but surelylearning some of the recipes of
the region.
And may I say, and I made thatbefore, I just make green a lot,
so I don't typically make red.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, and may I say the garnish on top and your
design.
It was just a beautiful pictureIf you haven't seen pictures of
Chris's pozole, check ours.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
It was nice, it was symmetry at its finest.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
It was Well.
Thank you for making awonderful dinner.
Thank you, william Chris formaking a wonderful tonight, all
right.
Well, chris, this is our firstcase out of New Mexico that
we're going to do.
This is about a 27-year-oldgirl named Sasha Krause who
(02:47):
lived in the Mennonite communityin Farmington, new Mexico.
So she's originally from Texas.
So I actually didn't know thatuntil we started kind of looking
into this case, but I believeshe was born either in Temple or
somewhere near Temple Texasmaybe in Temple Texas and then
she lived in Grandview, texas,for a while, was teaching Sunday
(03:09):
school, living with her family,and then she decided that she
was going to apply for a job atthe Lamp and Light publication,
which is in Farmington, newMexico, which is also on a
Mennonite community compoundthat other Mennonites live.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And I believe there's two of those here in Farmington
that are both associated withone another.
Okay, kind of West Coast, eastCoast kind of thing, when you
look at the proximity of oneanother on the map.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
And so I think too, when we initially were talking
about this case in Mennonites,we weren't super familiar with
what that was.
And so I think, initially, whenI think of that, we were, you
know, I think of Amish and it isessentially the same thing.
I think you know, in kind oflooking too, it is kind of a
(03:59):
different.
There's different most of thetime, I think, with Amish
community.
Amish communities that we'remore familiar with you know,
media, movies and whatnot.
You see the horse-drawn buggies, carriages, things like that.
Yes, not any reliance ontypical.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
You know the comforts that people you know Sure yeah,
tvs, things like that, carsyeah, technology is one of the
big things.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
But there also are Mennonite communities,
apparently, that embrace thesetechnologies, that's right.
So that is, I think, more alongthe lines of kind of this
community that was here inFarmington.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Well, and they talked about how they created their
own rules.
Right, she did have a cellphone.
We know that she had a cellphone.
She wrote a lot.
I mean she wrote music for thechurch.
So I think they said she hadstacks of journals in her room
and so many pages of writtenpoems and words and her parents
(04:54):
would say that she studiedlanguages.
It was really something thatcame really easy for her and she
enjoyed it and this was part ofher coming to Farmington.
She wanted to work for apublication company in the
Mennonite community.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
I mean, how great is that To be able to translate in
some of those languages?
And, looking at it, they had apublication company which
obviously requires electricitymachines, things to do that's
not typically, and so they were.
I'd say probably that more.
I was about to use the wordadvanced.
It has nothing to do with that,but just a little more use of
technology to navigate societyand I also don't want people to
(05:31):
think that this was like someshut off community.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You can drive through there and you can.
I mean they are welcoming, theywelcome people to the church.
It's not like I think whenpeople hear the word compound
they think of like David Koreshright?
This is not we're talking abouta very loving community of
people who support it.
And not only that they wantedpeople to come and visit.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
And I found it was interesting that people
converted to this.
I would have assumed justthat's.
It is a lifestyle, and so youwould think that most now people
leave the church like anychurch for that matter.
But the notion of someone youknow, either a young adult or an
adult for that matter decidingto kind of join in that being
(06:19):
accepting that I think is kindof cool.
But you know, that was somethingI didn't know.
That that is, like I said, veryopen, accepting not.
I think it's kind of cool, butthat was something I didn't know
that is like I said, very open,accepting, not inclusive.
I mean sorry, not exclusive.
Exclusive, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
All right.
So she was here in hercommunity, she was working for
the church, she was doing Sundayservice and had gone to the
church to get some books andthings she was taking with her
(06:50):
to Colorado the next morning.
So this was a Friday night,going into a Saturday morning,
and she was going there to teach.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
I'm assuming, another Mennonite community within
Colorado.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, and people just said she was happy.
I mean, you know they reallycouldn't find.
You know.
This is why, when she firstwent missing, you know they were
struggling with you know whathappened to this young girl.
She's seen and people knowwhere she's going and then she's
gone and so it was.
(07:23):
But, like you said, this is acommunity that is first of all
took this very seriously, veryquickly when she went missing
and in regard also to thatcommunity which we're going to
kind of talk about later, is, Idid not know that there are
certain professions thatMennonites don't believe you
(07:44):
should be involved in.
One they don't join themilitary.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
They are pacifists by nature.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
yes, yes, they don't become police officers.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Once again pacifists by nature.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, so it is.
I learned a lot.
I mean, I learned a lot aboutthis case, I learned a lot about
this community and I'll tellyou what people kind of reached
out when they knew we were goingto do this case people who live
over in that area and how muchthis really did affect people in
Farmington.
And it wasn't that long ago Imean, we're really only talking,
(08:16):
you know, five years ago.
So just just really sad andjust such a senseless murder and
abduction which we're going totalk about.
All right.
So she is here for about Chris,I think she was here about 19,
20 months somewhere around there, a little less than two years
already, working and being apart of the community.
(08:37):
She did live with two otheryoung women in a house on the
property, in a house and, youknow, on the property, and again
, she just was a good person andpeople really didn't have
anything bad to say about her.
They really couldn't thinkabout anybody, of any enemies
who would do this to her.
(08:57):
But, and thankfully, herroommates kind of took action
when they realized she had notcome home.
So the night in question whichis January 18th 2020, chris, she
goes to the Mennonite churchagain to get some books and
pamphlets that she's taking withher to Colorado the next
morning.
Okay, roommate realizes she'snot there.
Um, sometime after midnight hershe's not in her room.
(09:19):
Um, they know that she had goneto the church about seven
o'clock to pick up thosepamphlets.
Um, they were starting to.
She was, you know, the.
The one roommate was concerned.
She then tells the otherroommate Now, they're both
concerned, they're calling herphone, they're trying to figure
out where she's at.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Because, I mean, I think too, a big part of that is
, um, you know, not a remotearea, but it is where this
church is located.
They're just not like you don'tjust walk yeah, I was gonna say
you don't just drive to thestore.
And I would say also probablypretty typical in this community
that people probably went outas a group as well too.
(09:57):
I mean, in some respects I meanfor her just to want not be
present, and you know, that'svery abnormal.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
She's not just going to wander off, no, and they had
a curfew this is another thing10 o'clock curfew, which
apparently is a big deal if youbreak curfew in the Mennonite
community, as from just fromwhat I gathered.
I did think the curfew was alittle interesting, but I wasn't
sure that was across the board,because I mean I mean, and if
we're wrong about some of this,please let us know, because
we're learning about thiscommunity as well.
But, chris, I did hear this iswhy the two roommate, the two
(10:28):
young girls, did not go, andwhen I say girls, I don't mean
like 15.
I mean like in their, you know,in their 20s.
They didn't go looking for herbecause they're not supposed to.
They're really not supposed togo out and wander around to.
They're really not supposed togo out and wander around and
maybe that's also probably alittle bit of a safety thing in
taking care of one another ishaving that curfew, I mean.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I don't know, there could be other reasons for that.
I could really.
I mean, I didn't look that hard, but I did look to see about
the curfew thing and I couldn'treally see anything that that
spanned across, you know.
I mean she's 27, clearly anadult.
That's just to cost the boardfor everybody.
You don't have to be in yourroom.
(11:15):
Don't go out.
That's right.
There's bad things at nightyeah.
Which clearly we learned.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Chris, they do find her car at the church.
So, chris, they do find her carat the church, which was very
worrisome because she's not atthe church and her car is there.
There was nothing around thecar to make them think there was
any sort of foul play, but oncethe girls tell her supervisor
(11:43):
from the publishing company,that's who they went to.
He then gathered a bunch ofpeople and they start going look
for her.
I'm sure they probably lookedfor her for a few hours at least
, and then, when they realizedthat she's really nowhere to be
found, her car has now beenfound.
This is raising a lot ofconcern, and so they decide to
(12:08):
call authorities.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, I mean even think in proximity, that's um
there's a river close by thereum but it is very deserty, so I
mean, I could see what you mightthink if somebody was to wander
out, because it's very dark toovery and so you easily getting
lost or something wanderingaround initially, but I guess
they quickly realized thatwasn't the case for a few hours
(12:45):
and then they call authorities.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
So I'm going to maybe guesstimate.
This is probably like 5, 6 am.
Now the San Juan Countyofficials come out.
They start talking and askingquestions.
You know, was she prone to runaway?
Was she prone to be a nefariousactivity?
Is it like her?
Was she involved in anyrelationships?
Right, they just want to knowabout her and and and.
(13:07):
Immediately they realize herpurse is in her house.
So she didn't have to take herpurse, her debit cards, credit
cards, everything was left inher room.
The only thing she had on herwas her cell phone.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, I thought that was an interesting notion as
well.
As far you know, taking thecell phone too, just to walk
from um, I I kind of.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yeah, I know it's a house, yeah she drove, though
her car was found at the churchbut I mean, yeah, I mean I guess
it's just, but you're not going.
It's pretty well, no I wouldn'thave taken her.
I wouldn't I was thinking aboutthat like I wouldn't have taken
my purse.
I wouldn't take have taken mypurse to the church.
If I was pulling something andI lived in the community and I
was going back to my house, Iwould see as a woman.
(13:50):
The whole idea of the purse isthat she didn't, because if
she's missing and she's not onthe property in the community,
they think well, she left, Maybeshe just took off and didn't
want to be in the Mennonitecommunity anymore.
Well, why would she do that andnot take her purse and credit
cards?
How is she going to survive?
So, that's why they thought well, this is strange, her purse and
(14:13):
credit cards and everything ishere, but her vehicle is here.
So did someone come pick her up?
Well, you know it like that waybecause she's not on the
property.
They've searched the property,but then if she was leaving with
someone, why not take her purse?
It just didn't make, it didn'tmake any sense, and so they were
(14:35):
really just really strugglingum to figure out.
You know what could havepossibly um happened to this
girl, chris, eventually, theyhave to tell her parents in
Texas that she is missing.
And you know, again, they werejust puzzled by the fact that
she was missing and there wasreally just no answers of you
(14:58):
know what could have happened toher.
So at this point, you know, soat this point, you know, we now
have 24 hours going by, we nowhave 48 hours going by and they
are really starting to try tofigure out, you know what
possibly could have happened toher.
They've got the car.
They know that.
You know, did anyone see her atthat church?
(15:21):
Now, chris, there was acoworker who did go to the
church that night.
He had gone in, he had claimednot to see her.
He said he had stopped for gasand we know now that this person
had nothing to do with it.
But at the beginning, whenpolice are doing this, they're
(15:42):
investigating the possibility ofsomeone in this community
probably being involved becauseshe didn't leave the property.
And so if you don't leave theproperty and all of your stuff
is found on the property exceptyou, I mean, police are
instantly going to thinksomebody who knew her did this.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
That's kind of to me, because this church and the
publishing company are a couplehundred yards away from one
another oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
So you know, said sure luck, she had it, of course
, but I mean, and these are thekinds of cases where it's just
like gosh and nobody seesanything right.
And it's like these.
I, we did jennifer kessie case,you know, on the last episode,
and that was daylight, andnobody sees anything of a girl
(16:36):
getting abducted.
Or you know they saw a car.
But I mean gosh, I mean it'sjust so heartbreaking to think
that she felt so safe, so secure, which she should have.
That's why this community iswhat it is is because there is a
sense of safety, a sense ofguard being down, which, gosh,
(16:58):
what a beautiful way to live.
And then for this to happen,it's an alibi.
But they were very they.
They just they thought hisstory just was a little strange.
(17:20):
How could you have not seen herif you were kind of in the same
building, kind of at the sametime, but he had claimed not to
see her?
Now you always, 27 year old,young, young woman, you know
relationships are happening.
You have other women, youngwomen, in this community.
So there was a question of youknow, did someone, was she
(17:45):
involved with somebody?
Did somebody, was she having arelationship with someone?
I mean, police tend to movethis way when it comes to young,
27-year-old girls missing.
Well, and I think that'sprobably a they think sexual
crime a lot when you're kind ofdealing with this kind of
scenario.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
But I also think too that with this community that
does, you know, like I said,there are midnight communities
that don't really interminglemuch with the town.
They live more rural, theymight go in town for supplies
and that, but you know, she hadher own car.
These people had their own cars.
They did have to go out shop,do things within town.
(18:21):
So I think, yes, that is alikely scenario.
Like was she out?
Because that is some of thereasons that people do leave
that lifestyle is because theywant to live a more, um, you
know, live a life that's not asrestricted, I guess, with some
things.
And so you know that is alikely scenario.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
So they're really trying to figure out what
happened to her, Because at thispoint, it's just an abduction
she is missing.
They are trying to follow theleads, they are interviewing
people.
They are, you know, cell phoneis not found and they are, you
know, trying to figure out whereher phone was paying.
(19:04):
I mean, God, they did so muchcell phone data in this case and
really this is how they got him.
And on February 21st 2020, um,a woman who is camping in a
national park near Flagstaff,Arizona, um, unfortunately finds
the body of Sasha Krause Um,hands are bound with tape in
(19:28):
front.
She's still in her gray dressthat people had seen her in, uh,
when she had gone, um to go getthe pamphlets at the church,
and they actually had toidentify her by fingerprint
analysis.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So you did again mention the cell phone data.
So this time all Farmington hasis that there's like two towers
.
They see it, that's it.
But they do know that, theyknow it's pinged on two towers
that are in the general ofascending, and then that's just
kind of where the trail goescold.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Yeah, one in the community and one at the four
corners, the actual where themonument is.
Yeah, which?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
is roughly 60 miles from there.
But that's just kind of it Justkind of vanish, not trace Once
again her car's there.
So yeah, that's why reallythere's just literal, just a
dead end yeah, um, police haveto notify her parents in the
mennonite community.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Um, you know, I can only imagine her parents are in
texas family.
I believe she had six brothersand sisters, um, and then you
have the whole Mennonitecommunity that have been
searching for her, and I knowthat they were just hoping for a
very different outcome andagain that sense of safety.
I just it's just because thisgirl was like hunted, because
(20:51):
this girl was like hunted, andit's just so very difficult to
you know, when you find out whatactually happens in this case,
in the extreme.
You know, gosh, aren't weliving this right now?
This extreme mindset and thisextremeness of anger, animosity,
hate.
You know you have to take itout on someone and you know,
(21:15):
from what I've done in myresearch, I think he had some,
probably he had a lot of issuesgrowing up.
He came from a Mennonite family.
I, him and his brothers,basically all took jobs that the
Mennonites didn't believe youshould have.
One I was in technology, theother one was a cop, and then of
(21:36):
course he, mark Gooch, whowe're talking about, was an
airman in the Air Force, and soyeah, nothing.
It's just so random and sad theydon't seem to indicate, I think
even in his interview when heis eventually caught.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
It's just more so, I think, as he states.
Well, even back to what I hadstated earlier about people
converting to this religion, hisfather had converted basically
the family into this and he hadalways felt that they weren't
accepted within the communitybecause they weren't like born
(22:15):
into it.
They were kind of outsiders whocame in, but also too a lot of
it, you know it is.
This is, of course, inWisconsin.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
who knows how strict or rigorous, you know, I mean
it's yeah.
I do want to say that it wasn't.
He wasn't like raised in NewMexico, he was raised in
Wisconsin and it's yeah minute.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, I was like and he had no relation, no
connection to this church.
It's just he had a badexperience along with his
brothers and left it yeah but hedid have um quite this amount
of disdain for the religion hedid to the point where I mean
obviously you see what he endedup doing.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So yeah, and I think I have enough therapist friends
and psychiatrist friends thatthey would probably tell me that
a lot of it anger is probablystemmed from his childhood
hating his parents for umbasically using what his father
used on the sand was like.
If you don't want to go fromdarkness to light, then you're
shunned right.
So you in the dark, you're inthe darkness, you as a person
(23:13):
are in the darkness and you'vegot to come to the light.
Until you do that, you cannotbe baptized as a Mennonite.
So I would say my psychiatristfriends would say that this
probably is but he was not agood kid.
Apparently he had a lot oftrouble.
Police went back to Wisconsinonce they started to get on his
tail, which we'll talk about,that cell phone data and
(23:34):
actually how he was caught, butthey said that he had a lot of
issues even growing up.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Since his dad converted to that we I don't
know what, how old him or hisbrothers were, I mean, if they
were well, he was well.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
When this happened he was 22 years old, so you can
imagine, probably within the 10years before that, let's say
yeah, who knows, he could havebeen a young.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
He could have been a young kid.
He could have been amiddle-aged kid Could have been
a middle schooler.
We don't know that, but I guesswhat I'm saying is imagine, if
you, I mean imagine our kid whohas an iPad in their eyeball at
least a little bit of the day,right?
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Yeah, access to TV.
You've got all this freedom andyou're doing all these things
and just, and then your fatherdecides we're gonna go live
because his father was a dairyfarmer.
They're already living kind ofa rural, but yeah that you're
gonna restrict all these things.
I mean, if that's obviously theolder kids are is much more of
a.
I could see a lot more pushbackon that, sure, because it
(24:33):
wasn't like there was a.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Or when they're old enough to push back.
I guess also, you know, whenthey come of age and they want
to do something.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Well, that was the other thing, what they had, that
crazy series like Amish GoneWild or something, because
that's kind of the thing, likewhen you become a certain age,
you have the option to go in themore strict.
That option to go um in the morestrict, that is, like you know,
the horse and buggy style, butto go and experience oh what the
city life is, what you know,and then, and then you kind of
(25:00):
have that option, uh, to decideif you want to come back to the
community or go out and try thesecular world quote unquote, so
to speak, and so you know well,chris, one thing she did was
write songs and lyrics.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Um I well, I got really choked up when people
sang her songs that she wrote ather.
They had a service for her andI mean, it's just like you know.
You have a girl who was foundwith a gunshot wound to the back
of the head, a 22 caliber.
She had blunt force trauma.
There were no defensive wounds,according to the medical
(25:38):
examiner found.
Usually they see like bruisingon the arms of the fingers and
again, you had mentioned that.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
That they're pacifists yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
And so you know, did?
I don't think we'll ever knowthe answer to that question.
I don't.
We don't know.
We know he subdued her right.
We know he kidnapped her fromthe property he had driven from
the Air Force Base in Arizona.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Seven hours away.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Seven hours.
Came to the Mennonite communityin Farmington.
And you know why.
I think he came here, chris,instead of the one closer to
where he was, because he couldhave found a Mennonite community
much closer than seven hours.
I think he felt like the closerhe stayed of where he was, he
was going to get caught.
I think he had to leave thestate to feel like more secure
(26:29):
about what he was actually aboutto do.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Well, according.
So you and I debate this umcause, according to text
messages, him and his brother,and in testimony to even when he
was an issue by the policeofficer, that he his state, why
would he be up there inFarmington?
And I think we we still neededto get in discussion on how they
even caught this guy too.
We haven't gotten there yet,but you know that he was out
(26:55):
trying to seek some guidancefrom the Mennonite community.
So according to him, he visitedthree churches.
We don't know, but he also.
We found there were texts wedidn't find but the text
messages to his brother abouthow he was essentially
surveilling Mennonites.
And so was he.
Did he stop at a few?
Did this just?
(27:15):
I mean, because there is quitea few communities between upper
Arizona, utah, western NewMexico.
There is a lot of choices,you're right.
And also even there that wasone of the things too the cops
were asking why didn't you justgo down the street?
Why'd you drive here?
It just was it random, Did yousay, like you said, did he get
(27:39):
so far away?
That's certainly not the firstone.
I mean, I just can't imaginethat's the first one you find in
New Mexico.
We'd have to really look andsee.
Oh no, I think he mapped themout, I think he knew exactly
where he was going and lookingwhen he was at Phoenix, correct?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Well, the Air Force Base, yeah, so seven hours away.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
You've got to drive pretty deep into New Mexico, so
you're going to pass a lot ofthem.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
So like.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
I said said why is this one?
Because he could have actuallyprobably driven the closer ones
in new mexico.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
You know this is a pretty far one because
farmington's up in the farnorthwest corner.
I think, and some of that to meis getting the courage to do
what you're about to do maybe hedid.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
I think that is very likely that he did go and try to
see she.
Um, I mean well, why you her?
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Well, why are you going over state line, right?
So if you know you're goingback to Arizona, which is where
he lived, then he's going toprobably feel like maybe he's
possibly throwing them off if hedoes this in another state and
goes back to another one.
He wasn't very smart, he made,I mean, it really wasn't that
hard to find.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
I'm just saying if you got to Google map and you
said I want to go to another.
I want to go to another stateand find a Mennonite church.
I think you would have gonethrough a lot of them.
So did he go through a lot inNew Mexico?
This just happened to bebecause I mean seriously, like
there was days of doing this.
Did he work up the courage andeventually stop at this church?
I mean, it is not so random inthat he is looking for someone
(29:11):
in the M community to take outhis anger on, but totally random
that it happened to be thischurch this time of night.
How did he know?
Or did he go there?
Because that's the other thingtoo.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Him using the term surveilling in his text messages
, he could have been out thereall day just waiting for
somebody in the right momentjust to see.
Well, they actually know thathe got there.
So her phone and his phone.
Okay.
So let's stop here for a secondbecause I think we need to.
We know her body is found inthe National Park.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Oh yeah, we need to discuss how he was found.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, so her body's found Again.
Autopsy showed Um little to nodefensive wounds, um a gunshot
to the head, blunt force traumato the head.
Her arm, her wrists were tiedin the front of her.
She was fully clothed, her hairwas still done, she was laying.
She looked like she had laid,had been laid by a bush Um and a
(30:05):
woman walking through thenational park during the day um
found her through the nationalpark during the day um found her
.
So what police were reallytrying to figure out is here's
what they had on her phone,chris they actually knew her
path right because they knewwhere now she was found.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So they arizona police did not know that.
They did not know that untilbecause she was not fitting the
profile of any missing reportsright, they put it out to new
mexico that's right, that's whenthey learn, you know, identify
that.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
This based on the dress and everything yeah, and
then they identify her byfingerprints.
So fingerprint analysis isactually how they realized it
was her um.
But they, because of one, theyknew where she was living um,
they knew where she was nowfound.
So how did she get that faraway, with no vehicle?
(31:03):
Who could she have possiblybeen with if nobody in that
community had actually left withher um?
And the only thing?
So I didn't even know that theycould do this.
Did you know that they couldsubpoena all cell phone networks
?
I mean, we're talking thousandsand thousands and thousands and
(31:26):
thousands of phones, right,because what they were trying to
do is figure out the one cellphone maybe not, maybe two, who
knows?
But this was one cell phonethat had the same exact path
from where her phone started inthe community, went to the four
corners monument, which wasabout 60 miles away from
farmington, and then down to thenational park by flagstaff, and
(31:50):
they only found one.
But they did this by cell phone, and that is how they found
22-year-old.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Mark Gooch, when they learned of her path and then
saw this other one.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yes, I mean this is how they found him.
So by this time they are, youknow, I mean, crazy.
They found it this way.
But I mean my gosh, whattechnology can do and the
ability to find him and thisphone.
And so what they start doing isthey basically just start
(32:21):
trying to figure out.
You know, why do they know eachother?
How do they know each other?
Or how did she end up down here?
So that's when they realize,okay, he's from um, you know,
they start realizing that he'sfrom wisconsin and they start
doing research.
They know he's an airman, right, and so it's like they.
(32:44):
Then they're like wait, thisguy, he doesn't really have any
criminal history here.
He is in the military, in theair force.
Um, there is, is that thunder?
That's okay.
And I and so they were like,okay, the cell phone matches up,
but I don't know if it's thisguy.
(33:07):
So they were a little, I think,think, taken back that his
phone is the one that pings withhers throughout this whole time
.
But they finally decide to goand talk to him and once they do
, they bring him in, they askhim some questions what were you
(33:27):
doing?
And by this time they kind ofknow that they have all this
information.
And police typically don't justlike lawyers, they typically
don't ask questions they alreadydon't know the answer to.
So they already knew theanswers to these questions.
They're just wanting to seewhat his answers are.
And immediately investigatorsknow he's lying.
Right, he says that why did yougo to the church?
Well, I went there to look atchurch times.
(33:49):
Well, really that's interesting.
Why would you drive seven hourswhen there's plenty of
Mennonite churches by where youare and if not, within a certain
amount of radius of whereyou're living?
So it really just wasn't addingup.
And then they ask him you know,did you travel to Farmington?
He admits, yes, that he did andthat he was looking at the
(34:12):
church times.
And I mean, again, he wasshowing absolutely no emotion,
he was basically just making nosense.
I mean, they had him.
They had him.
They immediately arrest him,chris.
They find, while they'retalking to him, they are getting
a warrant to search his vehicle.
(34:34):
Right, they find some gloves.
They find a receipt that he hadhis car detailed, I think
within 24 to 48 hours of heronce.
They actually found her, yes,and then you know they find,
find, I think they find somegloves and just other other
(34:57):
stuff.
Okay, but they know this guydid it, they feeling good about
this.
It's a lot of circumstantialevidence right now but it's
pretty powerful circumstantialevidence.
And again, you talked about thetext messages to his brothers.
So I mentioned one was a cop,one was an IT and then he
himself was an airman.
And you know they, you know,gosh, I don't know, it is hard
(35:25):
to kind of say they foundenjoyment hating Mennonites
because they did, they literallydid, they would text each other
their disdain for them and Ijust it's very hard for me to
wrap my head around just notliking something because you
don't, I don't know, I don'teven know.
(35:46):
It's just so unbelievablesometimes when you think about
it, because this guy literallydrove to Farmington, to this
community.
Why do racist people hateanother race?
Sometimes, when you think aboutit, because this guy literally
drove to farmington, I mean, whythis community?
Why?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
do racist people hate another race I know it's never
done anything to them, it's justhatred, it's just hatred
doesn't have to be anythingspecific.
That happened.
Yeah, who knows?
It is pretty, pretty strangeand kind of disgusting, but yeah
, I mean just even theirmessages back and forth and what
is?
Even his brother.
And this guy's a police officer, which is so crazy too, because
(36:16):
, you know, this is the guywho's supposed to be helping
people, and he's a pretty nastyperson too, as we do learn yeah
and oh, I mean it is kind ofwild they're texting, even when
mark gooch went to, when youknow ends up in prison.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
His brother and him are having conversations over
the prison phone line like noone's listening.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Which seemed that to me struck me as so odd.
His brother is a police officer.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Well, he was talking to the TIT brother because he
asked him to erase his phone.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
I know the other brother is a police officer.
You would think that he wouldtell the other like if you're
speaking on the phone, becareful what you say and talk
about.
They record your freaking phoneconversations.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
I don't know, unless you're talking to your attorney.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
So I mean it's.
It's almost like having a cellphone.
We all, america's dumbestcriminals.
I guess he thought he was goingso far away and they would
never ever be connected to this,but I mean, once again,
technology technology wins.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I mean, well, and I'll tell you, the biggest piece
of that technology and cellphone was the fact that his
phone was sitting in like in thesame spot for about three to
four hours, which was in thecommunity, for about three to
four hours, which was in thecommunity.
So they know that he wassitting waiting to abduct or
hurt someone and they also knowthat he was actually text
(37:41):
messaging his brothers duringthis time.
Now, whether or not hisbrothers knew he was going to
commit murder, I don't know.
I don't think police reallycould ever say that they were in
on it or knew what he was goingto do.
There wasn't exact messageslike I'm about to do this, but
he was sitting there waiting toabduct someone and that's what
(38:01):
he did.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
I would think.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
They believe he got out of his car, tied her wrist
together and put her in thevehicle.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Your brother's a police officer.
You tell him you're surveillinga group of people that you hate
.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
I know is his brother a freaking idiot, does he not
know you don't think they're allidiots in my opinion that he's
going to do some either hurtsomebody, maybe not kill
somebody, but it's there to dosome malice and that's just so
crazy.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
His brother's almost kind of egging him on.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
You know, yeah, about the whole thing they're all
disgusting, um, frankly so, um,okay, so even in the, they did
not know each other.
Stranger on stranger crimes arethe hardest to solve.
Um, I am very glad there isjustice in this case, because
(38:49):
this could have turned out verydifferently.
Thankfully there was a lot ofcell phone data and they could
get him.
But they believe he drove thatseven hours Now.
Whether or not he had plannedto do it somewhere else, whether
or not he chickened out andjust kept driving, whether he
had to kind of get himself ampedup, chris, whether he had to
kind of get himself amped up,chris, to get to the point to
(39:13):
abduct someone and then murderthem.
You know, we talk about that andhear that a lot about from our
police officer friends, thatsometimes they chicken out right
, these abductors and murderers.
They might only start with asexual assault and then the next
person, next victim, it goes,but this guy abducts her.
(39:35):
We know she had no defensivewounds.
The worst case scenario in mymind is that this woman just
stood there and prayed out loudand this shit happened to her.
It's it.
It just makes my skin crawl andit makes me cry when I think
about this, because I I justit's just unbelievable that if
(39:57):
she did Chris, if she didn'tfight back, if, if there were no
defensive wounds that were seen, whether she did or not,
whether he had subdued orsomehow I don't think we'll ever
really know all of thosedetails um, I possibly could get
um a foia and police reportfrom farmington and read about
this, but but again your mindjust thinks, my god, this girl
(40:22):
had did not see this coming andyou and she's probably in shock.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
It's an odd group, a group of people to hate,
especially given their fact thatthey don't really I mean, she
gave her life to God.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Well, not even that.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
It's just the fact that they're just as a group.
Pacifism is widely taught, youknow.
Speaker 1 (40:46):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
We don't meet violence with violence, and so
it's just of all the people youcould probably have ill will
against.
It is just so odd too.
That's also what kind of makesit.
So it's all sad, but just evenso too.
Like why aren't people thathurt anybody?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Just so unfortunate and so senseless.
We know, chris, he returned tothe body.
We know that he went back tothe national park.
They don't know what he did.
They don't know if he tooksomething off of her.
They don't know if he went tomove her.
They never.
I just couldn't.
I don't see where he ever saidwhy he he went back, but cell
(41:29):
phone data shows that heactually had gone back to the
scene of the crime.
He also gave a friend the gun.
So once he had been arrested,the friend saw this and heard
about it and he immediatelycalled police and said that he
had the weapon.
(41:50):
Well, the simultaneously timeof this is when he's asked his
brother to go and actually getthe weapon.
Police know this and theyactually put a sting on the
guy's house.
The brother shows up to pick upthe weapon and that's when
actually the brother is arrestedand you know he flips on him
(42:11):
and testifies against him at histrial.
So the father gets on the stand.
The father, mark Gooch, alsogets on the stand and again he
testified that you know justwhat it was like for him and his
family in the Mennonitecommunity.
The brother gets on the standand you know, I think one of the
(42:32):
questions he's asked was youknow, did your brother hate
Mennonites?
And he's like, well, I don'tknow how my brother really felt
about Mennonites and you know,we know that's a bunch of
bullshit and really how all ofthe brothers kind of felt about
again targeting you know yourprofiling and targeting in your
messaging and not only that withyour words to your own family.
(42:55):
And again, chris, mypsychiatrist friends, a group of
brothers who are raised inMennonites.
Now all three have jobs thatyou're not supposed to have as a
Mennonite and then you hatethem as well.
Like that is all psychologicalshit that we could probably
bring someone on and talk about,but that's not going to be us.
But there was a lot there tohear in the courtroom.
(43:17):
The judge said this murder ofthis beautiful young lady was
the most senseless crime she hadever been involved in.
She simply didn't deserve thisand, again, a sense of safety in
(43:38):
a community where she felttotally at home.
Mark Gooch was convicted offirst degree murder.
He is serving life in prisonwithout the possibility of
parole.
Until next time.
Friends, stay safe, have funand cheers to next time.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Cheers.
Thank you.
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