October 13, 2024 • 40 mins
Unlock the secrets behind wrongful convictions as we question whether personal details should ever cloud a quest for justice. Join us on a captivating journey through the Texas Innocence Project's crucial work in re-examining evidence and advocating for those who might be wrongfully incarcerated. Through this episode, we spotlight their collaboration with Longhorn Cellars and the complex case of Scott Peterson as examples of the challenging paths to uncovering truth amidst uncertainty.
Experience the chilling narrative of the 2005 murders of Dennis and Norma Woodruff in Royce City, Texas. We unravel the investigation that cast their son, Brandon, into the spotlight, scrutinizing his secret life and the potential biases it introduced. With a mix of intriguing testimonies, missing weapons, and a blood-stained dagger, we question the fairness of using personal lifestyles as a motive in legal proceedings, especially in small-town settings where prejudices may run deep.
As the Texas Innocence Project takes on Brandon Woodruff’s case, we explore their efforts to challenge the original investigation and the potential for new evidence to reshape his fate. Through discussions on untested hair samples and intriguing interview demeanor, we highlight the importance of thoroughness in the pursuit of justice. This episode promises an eye-opening exploration of how societal attitudes can impact legal outcomes and the ongoing fight for fairness in the courtroom.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandy (00:17):
Welcome all of you on in true crime lovers.
I'm Brandi and I'm Chris, andthis is Texas wine and True
Crime.
Thank you for being here,friends, for this week's episode
, the Texas Innocence Projectcase.
Hi, chris.
Chris (00:31):
Hi Brandy.
Brandy (00:33):
Good to see you.
Chris (00:34):
It's excellent to see you as well.
Brandy (00:36):
We've had some really good wine and food that we want
to tell all of our listenersabout.
Absolutely so let's jump intoit.
Burrow Blanco this month wehave Longhorn Cellars on the
show All month.
All month, their wine all month.
So exciting.
This wine was absolutelydelicious.
It is a blended white ofAlbarino, vermentino and Pic-Pul
(00:58):
Blanc, three of my favorites.
Chris (01:01):
I really enjoyed it as well.
Brandy (01:02):
Oh, it's so good, and it still feels like summer here in
Texas.
Chris (01:07):
I would agree with that, yeah.
Brandy (01:08):
So white wine is tasting super delicious, even though we
are we are jumping into falland we'll have some reds.
But, chris, what did you pairwith this beautiful white blend?
Chris (01:18):
I paired an herb crusted cod with beurre blanc sauce, as
well as a big old fat glazedcarrot and some rice pilaf.
Brandy (01:28):
You should actually just name it beurre blanc sauce
Beurre blanc To match the wine.
I did use a little bit in thesauce as well, okay, but yes, I
think it went really well.
Chris (01:37):
I was kind of looking at this wine and the blend as well
and it seemed like it said itwent good with some cream sauces
and I haven't really made aBurr Blanc ever here at the
house and so I thought it'sthat's a light sauce to go,
especially with cod, cod's kindof a light fish and whatever you
kind of put with it toaccompany it kind of absorbs
those flavors.
Brandy (01:57):
Well, it matched perfectly.
Chris (01:58):
Thank you.
Brandy (01:59):
And thank you Longhorn Cellars for being our wine of
the month.
We are um so excited to becoming down to fredericksburg
chris november.
The second is our live show atlonghorn sellers yes, it's
coming up so exciting.
So please go, grab your tickets,come see us in fredericksburg.
But, um, if you can't come tothe show but you are in
(02:21):
fredericks any other time, youneed to visit our friends over
at Longhorn Cellars.
Chris, air, smack Dab, right inthe middle of the heart of
Fredericksburg.
They have a wine club, atasting room, a calendar of
events.
They've got some cool stuffgoing on over there.
I cannot wait to be there.
Chris (02:39):
And we're on that calendar.
Brandy (02:40):
Yes, we are on that calendar.
Chris (02:42):
Yeah, this was a really good wine though.
Very yes, we are on thatcalendar.
Yeah, this was a really goodwine, though.
Brandy (02:45):
Very easy drinking.
I really liked it a lot.
Yeah, so it's the first of thefour, so hitting a home run out
of the ballpark with these wines.
So thank you, longhorn Cellarsand thank you, chris, for
pairing this amazing dish.
Thank you All right friends.
So we are going to jump intothis case to this case.
(03:10):
And, chris, I wanted to do thiscase because we are, you know,
we're going to be doing someunsolved Texas Innocence Project
case that I'm going to be, orwe are going to be, delivering
at Longhorn Sellers.
So it kind of got me thinkingabout this particular case.
We're not going to do this oneat Longhorn Sellers, but so we
decided to do it right here onour platform.
And that is just looking at allwhat the Texas Innocence Project
(03:31):
case, their active cases, right.
So one thing I want to sayabout innocence projects is they
do wonderful things.
There are thousands andthousands of wrongly
incarcerated people in oursystem, and especially in our
system, that are convicted and,you know, tried convicted of
murder, put in for life.
(03:51):
Sometimes they're given death.
And they do great things andthey look at the evidence and if
there is a you know, I wouldsay a hint or a sniff of either
a bad trial, an unfair jury, anunfair trial or really any piece
of evidence that maybe wasn'tconsidered in the initial
investigation, this is what theydo.
Chris (04:12):
It's all pro bono as well .
Brandy (04:14):
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I think there'sprobably a way that they are
able to keep the funds up rightto be able to do these cases.
Chris (04:22):
Yes, but the incarcerated people are not.
Brandy (04:24):
That's correct, yes, so.
But I also want to say thatjust because an innocence
project picks up a case, itdoesn't necessarily mean they're
not guilty.
Chris (04:35):
Yeah, I think that's a good point to make.
Brandy (04:37):
Yeah, and I think that if there is a reason I mean,
these are professionals who arethey're attorneys and these are
professionals who are theirattorneys and these are our
professionals who are workingfor these organizations so if
they believe that there's areason to look at this evidence
again and save a life or getsomeone out of prison that
doesn't belong there, fantasticwork.
It's what, it's what our systemneeds.
But, for instances, the LosAngeles Innocence Project has
(05:01):
picked up Scott Peterson's case.
Right Now I could say, oh well,you know, here's what I think
about Scott Peterson.
But I bet if I was talking tosomeone I don't know if they
really care about the LAInnocence Project picking him up
they would maybe still considerhim guilty, right or not guilty
, depending on their view of thecase.
Chris (05:19):
Yeah, I would agree with that as well.
Brandy (05:20):
Yeah, so I think people.
So again, I want to make surethat Innocence projects are
highlighted and said out loud,because, man, they do some great
work.
They've exonerated a lot ofpeople in this country, but they
have picked up BrandonWoodruff's case and that's the
one that we're going to betalking about tonight.
So on October 18th 2005,.
(05:43):
Tonight, so on October 18th2005, a family friend of the
Woodruffs is not able to get ahold of them.
So in fact, chris, they triedgetting a hold of them for about
two days, and this is Dennisand Norma Woodruff.
So we they are in Royce City.
Chris (05:58):
Yeah, which is pretty local here.
Brandy (06:00):
Yeah, so they actually, chris.
They just recently moved.
They used to live in Heath,texas, so the reason that they
decided to move is because theyhave two children in college.
So in order to save money, Iguess, they moved downsized into
a smaller house, more availablefunds for the kids.
(06:22):
But these were very selflesspeople and they're dead.
They're actually found in thehouse when nobody can get a hold
of them.
Um, they find dennis and normawho found the crime scene, so
yeah, entered yeah, after thepolice entered um because the
person who could not get a holdof them for two days, they
(06:44):
called authorities and wanted todo a welfare check, I'll say a
wellness check yeah.
So the police arrived.
They find the gruesome scene.
Dennis is shot in the face onceand stabbed nine times, and
norma was shot multiple timesand then her neck had been
slashed.
Chris (07:00):
Now, as the investigation , gruesome, for roy city as well
too, very gruesome and thesepeople were, yeah, and they're
kind of new to town.
Brandy (07:09):
I mean, what enemies do they have just sitting in Royce
City, right, and Royce Cityprobably doesn't see a lot of
this, Maybe.
I mean, this is 2005, so thisis about 20 years ago and you
know, and so was the that.
I mean this was probably bignews.
I personally don't rememberthis case Just from like 20
(07:31):
years ago purposes, but thenonce I started reading about it,
it kind of like was I wasthinking, okay, wait, I have
heard of this Because this, oncethey started investigating the
son, Brandon Woodruff, they findout he's sort of living the
secret double life.
As the investigation islaunched, Chris, in an attempt
(07:52):
to find who did this, fingersstart pointing at the son, so
Brandon, who was living a secretdouble life that hardly anyone
knew about.
So they end up actually findingout that there were very few
people who knew about hislifestyle.
Chris (08:11):
Maybe not even a handful.
Well, by all accounts, he wasliving a normal life, yeah
that's correct.
Brandy (08:17):
Yes, Going to college.
Abilene Christian College.
Chris (08:22):
And he was quite popular.
Brandy (08:26):
Yes, he was very popular .
In fact, in high school he wasvoted like most likely to
succeed.
He had a consistent girlfriendin high school.
Chris (08:37):
Member of the FFA.
Brandy (08:38):
Yeah, member of the FFA.
I mean, he had a lot of friendsand people really liked him and
at the time, this when thishappened, in October 2005,.
He's 19 years old, so he'sgoing to college, but he is the
last one, chris, to see hisparents alive, allegedly right,
allegedly the last person to seethem alive, and that's actually
(09:01):
on October 16th of 2005.
Remember, they're found twodays later.
So the ME will come back andsay they died Sunday night
between 9 and 11 o'clock pm, allright.
So once investigators startlooking into Brandon Woodruff,
from the outside it looks likehe's living as a normal
(09:22):
19-year-old right, going tocollege, has friends, goes and
visits his parents.
His older sister is actuallygoing to college in Arkansas, so
has a very good relationshipwith her.
But they start to uncover a fewthings about Brandon Woodruff
that people didn't know abouthim.
(09:43):
The first thing, chris, is thathe was dating men, not that
that's a big deal at all, butwhen we talk about this in other
cases, when things start to bythe way, he was not forthcoming
about this information to policeand who came forward with that
information?
They start looking.
Well, they realize, once theystart talking to Brandon
(10:04):
Woodruff, that he was the lastone to see them, or at least
they think.
Chris (10:08):
But I mean, obviously the internet is not like it is now.
And so whatever they did withliving this secret life.
None of his friends knew whodid come forward with all this
information about him.
Brandy (10:21):
No, I think some knew.
But I think once they startdigging into his phone, once
they start digging into it's2005.
Chris (10:29):
What kind of phones are people?
Brandy (10:31):
having, or I don't know, maybe he had some sort of email
account, email.
Chris (10:36):
MySpace.
Myspace, I mean, think about it, that's a long time ago.
I mean, we don't have thephones like we have now.
Brandy (10:43):
you probably have a phone that was a you know what
do you call it?
Chris (10:47):
like I had buttons.
Yeah, that's right, it did youknow?
Brandy (10:50):
yeah, um, well, they start, they just, you know, they
end up finding out that brandon, at the time, had a girlfriend.
They start to question her,they just start to uncover these
things.
His story just isn't makingmuch sense, right, and it's
growing suspicion on himdirectly.
And so police just startlooking into Brandon Woodruff a
(11:11):
little bit more, and here's whatthey found.
So no, it doesn't matter, he'sdating men.
No, it doesn't.
But does it matter that hisparents were killed and they
have to look at every singlething in this guy's background?
Yeah, and could his parentshave found out about this?
Could there have been some sortof altercation Like this is
(11:33):
what they're thinking.
They find out a few more thingsabout him.
They actually find out that heis leaving the state to go and
make adult movies, and I thinkthis piece of it.
Chris (11:46):
Do we know where?
No.
Brandy (11:48):
I don't know where I mean.
Chris (11:50):
I'm sure it has where in the police reports Leaving the
state.
Brandy (11:56):
No, I just know that he was traveling to other locations
outside of Texas to do this.
Chris (12:03):
And maybe driving to Dallas too.
I guess that would be the Well.
Brandy (12:05):
Dallas is where he was hanging out in the clubs meeting
other men.
We have a fairly large yeahWell, and you know, I think it's
a big city right and I there'sa, there's some safety in
numbers, you know, and you'renot targeted in smaller areas.
I mean, what was it like forhim in heath, texas?
Chris (12:24):
well in abilene christian college, that's right probably
not a lot of um maybe, maybe notnot a lot of gay clubs,
probably in abilene no, probably, maybe.
Brandy (12:36):
uh, abilene's growing, but but you're right, dallas, I
mean, come on, they're in dallas, right.
So you're gonna come to thecity again, you're gonna meet
more people, just like youcoming to a bigger area, you
know to do so.
So, so he was doing thesethings.
They started uncovering justsome really you know interesting
(12:56):
information about this guy andthey start just questioning him
and they don't believe that hisstory makes much sense.
Upon digging just a little bitdeeper, they're not only finding
that his lifestyle may have hadsomething to do with the fact
that he could have done this tohis parents, but it's also his
(13:20):
story is kind of changing.
So there's a lot ofinconsistencies in the account
of his whereabouts, on where hewas that night.
But they also had the testimonyfrom friends that did not match
his alibi.
So he's giving them an alibi ofwhere he was.
I believe that alibi was withhis girlfriend, so I'll talk
about her in just a minute.
(13:41):
But Jansen Barnett claimed thatshe and her boyfriend, robert
Martinez, they had plans to meetwith Brandon, but they said
Brandon showed up much later,around 1020, which is not the
timeline that he had given toauthorities.
Chris (13:59):
Yeah, to me that's what you investigate.
I still, I still, am puzzled asto what his lifestyle.
Brandy (14:09):
Because I think you have a lie.
I think you have a lie hereabout time.
You hold on, I think it's holdon.
You have a lie about the alibibut I mean it's 2005.
Chris (14:18):
Okay, Lots of people were still lying about being gay.
Brandy (14:24):
I don't think it has anything to do with the secret
life.
He can have any secret life hewants.
I don't think any of thatmatters in an investigation,
unless it has something to dowith motive.
And could the motive had been,so why one?
You're right, Chris, but Ithink they did look at these
things first.
I think it's faster to talk topeople right and to get to know
(14:47):
someone by asking questions.
So I think they caught on realquick that the alibi just didn't
check out.
Chris (14:53):
I think the timeline didn't check out.
I think that's part of thething too, Like he if he has
been living this kind of doublelife and so kind of keeping that
um living, a lie of sorts.
Brandy (15:04):
That's right.
Chris (15:06):
And how.
Because, like, when you readthe stuff during the
investigation, then cover thisand cover that, like going to
get clubs performing adultmovies.
Even so, like that to medoesn't even seem like it's
relevant per se.
Brandy (15:21):
Unless it has to do with motive.
I still lack to see the motivein this thing, but we can press
on, okay so no, I want to stayon this a second, because I
think that it's important,because police are going to be
looking at all of it.
Right, they're going to belooking at the first of all, the
closest people to these.
Chris (15:41):
They're found on their couch that's the assumption that
his parents, if they found outwould be upset, sure saying that
okay.
Every parent would be upset bytheir son or daughter telling
them that that's not always thecase no so not always the case.
Brandy (15:58):
That to me doesn't lead to any motive and most time,
most of the time, if people arenot accepting of your lifestyle
they're not you're not going toturn around and kill them Right,
like that's rare.
So you have to wonder, and Ithink, what police started?
Chris (16:11):
to do and we never know that they're not accepting.
Brandy (16:13):
That's right.
We're not going to ever knowwhat happened in this house,
right?
Brandon Woodruff has finallygiven an interview this past
August of 2020.
And he's been behind bars for13 years and he spent 13,.
He's been behind bars for 13years and he was given life and
he hasn't talked about this atall.
But he has always maintainedhis innocence and he told 2020,
you know, I didn't do this to myparents and so I, you know, I
(16:37):
think that they're looking at,they're looking.
You know.
It's interesting, chris.
You bring up a good point,because if being gay is not a
motive, but then you look at thefact that our Texas Innocence
Project picks this up becausethey believe he was wrongly
(17:00):
convicted because of hislifestyle.
Chris (17:03):
I think that's a big part of it.
I mean, really, it's all of hisinconsistencies, that's right.
Where he was, not the fact thathe was gay.
Brandy (17:11):
That's right.
Chris (17:13):
So I don't know, like I said, when they say they
discover that, is that really adiscovery?
You know what I mean.
Brandy (17:20):
I guess he wasn't forthcoming with the information
about where he was, what he wasprobably doing.
I mean, they probably will theyend up finding out a lot about
this guy and where he was andwhat he says he was actually
doing.
So, chris, I think they justkind of said this guy's not
forthcoming about the questionswe're asking him.
There's inconsistencies in hisalibi and the timing we're now
(17:43):
talking to people and getting anidea.
I think it was just all of itand they moved forward, but they
focused on him.
Chris (17:49):
It's a smaller town.
That's right, and they wantthese kind of cases solved right
, not super gay friendly, and sothat probably was why they
focused on that, because, ofcourse, if you can be gay, you
could kill somebody, right?
Brandy (18:02):
That's right.
Chris (18:06):
I mean, I'm not saying that, I'm just.
You know, I think that's right.
A lot of fuss with me over that, but that's just my opinion.
Brandy (18:09):
Very true, chris.
I want to mention magic mindreal quick, if we can.
I want to talk about their nanoencapsulation technology, which
is why, chris, we take a shotevery morning.
Um, what do you?
What do you call it?
Your, your brain power food?
Chris (18:24):
Reclaim my brain.
Brandy (18:25):
Reclaim your brain, chris.
So a few things about thisbrand Magic Mind Vitamin infused
tastes great, clinically backedingredients, increases efficacy
, easy on the stomach.
It doesn't replace your coffee.
We have it right along with ourcoffee, but there's just so
many benefits to trying MagicMind.
(18:47):
What's your favorite thingabout it, chris?
Chris (18:49):
Well, I think the fact that it works you know it's not.
I of course have tried everyprobably energy and shot or
whatever you know, and that, tome, was the.
What I really liked about itwas kind of the clarity you had
after drinking it yes.
And it works really quick.
I mean I usually will take itin the morning on my way to work
.
I have a very short drive and Imean I'm not being very honest
(19:13):
by the time I get there.
Brandy (19:13):
You know it's kind of rare to get on.
Chris (19:17):
And I don't even have any coffee on my way to work.
That's right, I might have acup when I get there, but it's
it doesn't kind of leave youwith that letdown, I guess.
Brandy (19:26):
Yeah.
Chris (19:28):
What do you call it?
Brandy (19:28):
I guess the fade, or whatever that's right, it's not
about the caffeine in it.
Chris (19:33):
It has a very minute amount of caffeine.
Brandy (19:35):
Yeah, and in fact.
But it kicks in right when youneed it to, which is why I love
it.
It gives me clarity.
I take a shot, have it with mycoffee, come in, start my day.
So what you can expect is asharper mind and smooth, calm
energy.
Consistent daily use builds thebenefits of optimizing a mental
performance and supporting abalanced mood and motivation
(19:57):
over time.
Chris, our friends need to grabthis at magicmindcom and you
can use the code Texas20.
All right, Chris.
So Brandon Woodruff is now beinglooked at by police and they've
got a lot of questions for him.
They've got a lot of questionsfor friends.
But here's something else.
(20:17):
So a neighbor named RandallLunds, who lives near the old
Woodruff residence in Heath,residence in Heath he admitted
to seeing Brandon at theproperty in Heath between 10 pm
and 11 pm on the night of themurder.
So what's he doing there?
Well, they end up.
(20:39):
In June of 2008, a family memberfinds a dagger in the barn of
the Woodruff's old house inHeath, Texas.
So Dennis Woodruff's blood,Chris, ends up being on this
weapon.
Brandon Woodruff's formercollege roommate testified that
dagger was the same one Woodruffhad in his dorm room.
(21:02):
Authorities could not concludeif the dagger found was the
murder weapon.
But Chris Woodruff denies thatthe weapon is his, that he has
ever used it on his father.
But this is what you have aneyewitness, and then you have
someone that actually that heactually leaves it there.
(21:23):
So this isn't uncommon.
We see people hide things allthe time rather than getting rid
of them.
So few people testified thatthat is exactly the same kind of
knife he had in his dorm room,and so what do you do with that?
I mean, it has the father'sblood on it.
Chris (21:40):
Well, I think we discussed this before.
I mean, I don't know, I have alot of knives.
Brandy (21:44):
Yes.
Chris (21:45):
Cut myself on a lot of those knives.
I'm sure my blood is probablyon a lot of those knives, so I
don't know.
Was it one that maybe his dadowned and he got it Did?
Brandy (21:54):
he cut himself?
I don't know.
Chris (21:55):
How much blood Was it cleaned?
And they found a scan amount.
That was one thing I reallycouldn't determine, Like was it
blood covered or did they, youknow, was it cleaned and they
saw like very trace amounts, andso I'm not sure I mean, yes,
that is pretty damning, I willsay.
But you know, like I said, Iassume he would.
Brandy (22:14):
I would assume it was cleaned off and then they tested
it for blood and found a lot ofmy knives.
Chris (22:18):
If they came here and I ended up stabbed, they may look.
Brandy (22:20):
I mean most people don't close their knife or leave a
knife bloody right like you,somebody I would know you wipe
it off, but I mean I.
Chris (22:26):
I can honestly say, like the other day, I cut my finger
and I don't think I um washed it.
I just wiped it off on my pantleg or whatever, like a redneck
would do.
So I mean I don't know, youknow, I mean that happens a lot,
and so yeah so I don't know,like said, did the knife belong
to his father in the past?
Who knows was it?
I mean, couldn't find a lot ofthat information that was like
was it blood covered or what?
(22:47):
Did they just analyze it andsolve scandals?
Brandy (22:50):
Michelle Lee.
Chris, the mother of Woodruff'sgirlfriend at the time, also
contacted law enforcement toreport that a gun and bullets
were missing from her home.
Woodruff had been in her homethe weekend before his parents
were found dead.
Had been in her home theweekend before his parents were
found dead.
Investigators compared a bulletfound at the crime scene with a
(23:11):
bullet from the Lee home andsaid they believed they were
consistent.
The Lee's gun was never found,but investigators believe it was
the same caliber as the weaponused in the crime A murder
weapon.
Chris has never been recoveredand again, woodruff denies
stealing this gun.
Chris (23:25):
And when you say believe, though, is that definitive.
Brandy (23:30):
I think they probably it was the same caliber, right?
I think it was similar enoughfor them to.
You know, sometimes it's likewhen you're looking at the
bullet fragments and you compareit, they are, they have to like
shoot it, so I'm sure theytested it.
They have to shoot it, so I'msure they tested it.
Yeah, ballistics probablytested it and shot from a
similar gun and determined thatit was most likely this type of
(23:57):
weapon.
Now Michelle Lee will admitthat she didn't know when the
gun had gone missing.
She just couldn't find the gun.
Somebody clearly had taken it,but she could not tell police
when that may have been taken.
Chris (24:15):
Because she didn't really know and they never found that
gun, they never found it.
So then they didn't shootanything or do any ballistics
testing.
Brandy (24:20):
No, but I mean they found.
But she had ammunition for theweapon and knew what kind of gun
it was.
So they probably got anotherdummy gun right and compared it
and shot him.
Chris (24:29):
No, each gun is pretty unique.
Brandy (24:32):
They have when they find a caliber at a crime scene,
they don't necessarily have themurder weapon.
They get a similar gun and theyshoot it to see what kind of
damage it would do to the bullet.
Is it consistent?
Chris (24:44):
Yeah, but every barrel has rifling in it.
That's what they tell if theyfind a gun they can look at the
spent bullet that's in the bodythat's right compare it to the
rifling.
They don't have this, they'rejust saying it's the same
caliber right and there's a lotof caliber, you know.
I mean like I don't know Ithink they're.
Brandy (25:02):
I think you raise a great point it could be a very
common.
That's right I don't know that.
I think you raise a great point.
It could be a very common.
Chris (25:06):
That's right.
I don't know that.
But we could never really findwhat the caliber was.
But the gun is missing.
Nobody can find it.
That's right so that is onceagain another red flag.
Brandy (25:15):
Yeah, gun's missing Is never found.
She did admit that he knewwhere the gun was, we believe
it's the same caliber.
Chris (25:25):
We believe these things Like I would think, I'd want to,
like, I'm sure.
Brandy (25:28):
Well, it raises questions.
Chris (25:29):
Well, I'm sure that this bullet here was a 9mm.
It was a 9mm that was at thehouse.
It's gone.
That's right, so we can putthose two together.
Brandy (25:39):
Which is what they did, which is why they're not
definitive, which is why I thinkthe Texas Innocence Project has
picked up this case I thinkthere's some questions in it
right, and the organizationTexas Innocence Project.
When they decided to take alook at this case, they
basically said that there wasprejudice against him due to his
sexuality and that played arole in his conviction.
(26:01):
So in April of 2022, severalpeople went before the Texas
Court of Criminal Appeals inAustin and protested free
Brandon Woodruff.
His family has supported him.
His grandmother.
What was his trial?
Chris (26:16):
That is, I'm trying to think of that counting.
Brandy (26:19):
Yeah, I don't think I have it right here where it was,
but people were coming forwardand saying that you know they
wanted him freed.
Chris (26:33):
Like did he have a public defender or he had an attorney?
Brandy (26:36):
Yeah, I'm sure he had an attorney, because that's the
one thing he's on a death.
I mean he was on a life case, Imean he's on a capital murder
case.
That takes money, though.
Chris (26:46):
If you have no money, you don't just get an attorney, you
have to take a public defender.
Because I would think one thingtoo all the evidence that they
entered regarding his sexualityand going to gay bars, yada,
yada, yada.
I don't even know how that'sadmissible, because we're.
It's purely speculation thatyou say.
Well, his parents found out he,they were upset, they had an
(27:07):
argument, they didn't approve,he killed them it's called
circumstantial evidence.
Brandy (27:13):
They have the bodies right.
That's the one piece ofevidence that's always missing
when you're tryingcircumstantial right.
You don't have a body.
Well, they have a body and whatdo they notice?
They notice that these peopleare, like, overly killed.
There's a little bit of passionwhen it comes to stabbing
someone nine times and shootingthem I still that.
Chris (27:32):
I still stand behind, though I don't know what him
being gay and dancing in gaybars and whatever else he was
doing in his gay lifestylenecessitates murder because,
like I said, we have this wellof course you don't think that,
but you don't, you are.
Brandy (27:49):
I mean, but think about that.
What if you are someone likehim who let's say he did this,
okay, because that I, you know,he's.
I all I know is the fact.
And the fact is that he wasfound guilty and he's serving a
life sentence in Tennessee,colony, texas, at Mark W Michael
Union.
Chris (28:06):
So he's there, I just think you look at the evidence,
his questionable stories, cellphone records that show that he
was somewhere in the proximity.
Brandy (28:15):
Whatever email live space, whatever it's using, I
still don't.
Chris (28:18):
I think that was a reason to get 12 people in whatever
little town that they did thisin, to convict him even further
and not like the guy.
But I would think that beinggay is completely inadmissible,
because I don't think that stillpoints to a motive, because I
mean, you're making anassumption that his parents
would disapprove, and that'ssomething you know.
(28:40):
I don't know.
Like I said, it's not like hestole money from him or whatever
.
I mean, I think those are alittle different things.
I just don't know.
But that's just me, whateveryou know.
But that's why this texasinstance project has picked this
up to you.
Perhaps shed some light onthose things, who knows?
Brandy (28:57):
well and I know so.
So bonnie woodruff, uh,grandmother, um, she basically
says she knows that Brandon waswrongfully judged, right and you
know.
And murder, like you said, whywould he do that?
She's like I know he didn't dothat.
Someone else is letting himbasically take the blame for
(29:20):
this, but they do believe thatwhoever did this to this couple
knew them and knew them well.
There wasn't any sort of forcedentry into the home.
They looked into all of this.
They'd never thought a strangeror someone who would have had
any beef with a family that justmoved into Roy's city would
have had, and so- I don't doubtany of that.
(29:40):
And then they just go back tocommon sense, right?
What do we always say?
What were they doing 24 to 40hours before their death?
Well, they're hanging out withtheir son having pizza, which he
said was a normal night, andthen he leaves.
Could he be telling the truth?
Sure, but you know he's lyingup front and that's a big
problem.
And you know what.
That's a big problem and youknow what.
Don't lie, because this is whathappens.
Chris (30:01):
I just think he could have killed him for another
reason.
Brandy (30:04):
Okay, what would that reason be?
Chris (30:05):
That I don't know.
Okay, interesting, I don't know, because if he was heterosexual
, Okay Then what's his motive?
Brandy (30:15):
But these are secrets, Chris.
I want you to think about this.
These are secrets that peopleclosest to him don't even know
about him.
He can be doing this and Idon't care if he's doing this or
not.
He's a 19-year-old guy.
He can do whatever he wants,but if it has to do with motive,
if it has anything to do withmotive, then they're going to
(30:36):
care about this and look at it.
Chris (30:39):
And if he's lying up front— but if he was
heterosexual okay is there amotive?
What's the motive?
Brandy (30:44):
that's not a secret, though this if he was not, if
they knew he was heterosexualand he was chris, he had a
girlfriend at the time.
I think he dated both Iwouldn't even say.
Chris (30:53):
Apparently some people knew about this.
Brandy (30:56):
It couldn't have been that big of a secret it was a
secret, nobody really in hisfamily to find out that he's
doing gay porn films yeah, whichis a big thing.
Chris dancing.
Who do you just meet and go dothat dancing at a club, right?
Chris (31:10):
dancing at a strip club, whatever somebody.
I mean, you don't just findthat out.
Somebody knew that stuff andsomebody already kind of knew
those things and they, I mean,how did they get the information
you know?
I mean, well, I'm sure they gotit from a few sources.
Brandy (31:21):
Looking into his background, kind of knew those
things and they, I mean, how didthey get the information?
You know what I mean.
Well, I'm sure they got it froma few sources looking into his
background, really finding outhis alibi, finding out, pulling
records, who knows if hetraveled, if they ended up
finding out that this guy wastraveling with you know, pulling
you know, and then you and thenyou realize, well, why is he
traveling to these places?
So I think there was a lot ofevidence behind some of this
(31:44):
stuff and it was kind of policefelt.
It was probably a really bigthing to keep.
There's a lot going on in thisguy's background and he's just
doing studying at AbileneChristian University.
That's who his parents think heis.
Chris (32:02):
Sounds like he was making money.
Brandy (32:04):
Well, I know, but not everyone.
But I just want you to thinkabout that.
There's a reason.
These were secrets to him.
Chris (32:14):
And there's a reason that that his parents didn't know.
I think it was a secret, butgiven it was 2005 and people
were still reluctant to come out, that's the only reason I think
it was a secret.
Brandy (32:21):
And that could have been why he didn't tell police.
Maybe he didn't want and maybehe he's 19.
He probably.
I don't think he has a right totell police.
Chris (32:29):
How do you tell police what your sexuality is?
Why?
How do you tell police I go togay clubs.
I go dance at gay clubs.
Brandy (32:36):
Because they ask questions like what do you do on
your free time?
Where have you been?
What were you doing?
Chris (32:40):
I don't think a police officer has ever asked me who I
sleep with?
No, but that's not the directquestion.
Brandy (32:45):
But they're going to get to that?
Who were you involved with?
Because if they didn't, if theythought it was him but they
thought maybe he brought someoneelse in to do it, then you want
to know those things right.
Who are your friends?
Who are you hanging out with?
He's 19.
So I think it was a.
You know, if he's innocent,then maybe he should have just
(33:08):
been a little bit moreforthcoming.
But Chris the alibi didn'tcheck out, so they've got a
problem with his timeline.
No, no.
Chris (33:15):
I think there's a tremendous amount of evidence to
point that this guy could beguilty.
What I think, though?
Is introducing all this extraextraneous stuff, which to me
has no relevance, can alsosomehow taint a jury.
You could have a you know, agroup of people that are against
this there are still a lot ofpeople that look down on people
(33:37):
who are gay, and so that to meis a tactic used by the
prosecution to paint him in anegative light, in a villain or
a demon to some degree.
I mean, listen, I've grown uphere my whole life.
That's a smaller town.
I imagine a lot of gay peopleget out of Royce City as fast as
they can to go someplace that'sa little more friendly, like
here in Dallas.
We have a very gay friendlycommunity here and I just that's
(33:59):
the one part I disagree withthis whole thing Because I don't
.
I think that to me it's atremendous amount of evidence,
but I think that can affect ajury and their mind, and you
know a lot of things, especiallygiven the time when this was
occurring and also what part ofthe country you're in what part
(34:27):
of the country you're in, whatpart of the state, who knows?
Brandy (34:29):
you know?
Like I said, that's a that canbe very damning.
Yes, uh, well, we know we had a.
We know they had a cell phone,chris, because they did pull
records into that phone.
Um, and the problem with hisalibi is that the window of
opportunity to commit themurders was there.
I mean, they could just neveraccount for the time that the
estimated time of death was forthis couple and and I think
that's their biggest problemwith this case is that he was
supposed to meet people but thenhe was late, but then he wasn't
(34:52):
where he was supposed to be andthen cell phone records say
something completely different.
Chris (34:57):
Like I said, there's a tremendous amount of evidence
which points to him.
Brandy (35:01):
I mean there's a tremendous amount of evidence
which points to him.
I mean, I think it almost.
I think they also said it wouldhave had to been done in like
20 minutes, but I guess that'sprobably still plenty of time to
do that, but I don't know.
I think that that's really thetimeline will only make sense if
you can kind of get out of this20 minute gap.
(35:24):
But they're saying that thatgap is enough to tell them that
this guy could have probablydone this.
Chris (35:31):
I think he could have done it.
I just don't think it's becausehe's gay.
Brandy (35:36):
Okay.
Well, we don't know what thatconversation was with his
parents.
So if he is guilty, why wouldhe do that?
Chris (35:43):
There could have been a number of reasons.
Just like anybody else whokills their parents, I mean
there's who knows what thatreason is.
Brandy (35:52):
Well, chris, it's usually money, sex or power.
Chris (35:56):
I think they're trying to paint the motive and the reason
was because, he was gay.
Maybe his parents found out,they got upset and angry.
He couldn't deal with it.
He had to deal with him likethis to me that they have made
up a motive, you know I meanbecause it could be anything.
Who knows, it could have beenover money.
Well, we don't know that, but Ithink they have a lot of times.
(36:17):
You know the motive we have.
We it's very clear, like Idon't think this is a clear
motive, just the fact that heyou are absolutely 100, correct.
Brandy (36:26):
We have no idea what happened in that house.
You're right, and I think thisis why the texas innocence
project well, chris, and alsothey found a clump of hair in
the woman's hand okay, longblonde hair and they never
tested this hair.
And this is a big piece of whythe texas innocence project has
picked this up.
They want this hair tested.
Chris (36:47):
I mean, this is august of 2024 yeah, because they're
saying that the advantage to himif his parents are dead.
Brandy (36:53):
I mean he's 19 they don't have money, really, do
they?
Chris (36:56):
there's no.
I mean, what is he other?
Brandy (36:58):
than no.
Chris (36:58):
To help pay for their kids in college, they downsize
their house I mean I'm gonna,I'm going to have somebody else
do it and I'm going to gain,like there really was nothing to
gain from this other than, youknow, just being mad and having
them dead.
So I don't know, but those aremy feelings on it.
Brandy (37:16):
Yeah, no, I agree, and I think there are lots of
questions, which is why thatthey have picked up this case.
They want the hair tested.
They, you know, want probablyto look at all of the records.
I'm sure, hopefully, maybe theyprobably have that by now.
Sometimes it's hard to get someof that evidence from the
(37:38):
police when the InnocenceProject picks these up, but
they're gonna.
They just want some of thistested and I and I think one.
Chris (37:45):
I think too the fact that they didn't test the hair.
Brandy (37:47):
Yes, they have it that is um very interesting well, I
know, and not only that, anothercase that I was looking at the
texas innocence project.
Chris (37:56):
There was a that is direct evidence to point who may
have been in that house, not agun that they can't find.
However, the blade that theydid find with blood is a very,
like I said, that points a lotof fingers towards him, but that
to me, like that, tells you whowas in that house and who is
potentially responsible?
Yeah, law enforcement nevertested the hair and they
(38:21):
probably won't be able to findit if there's a real job and um,
yeah, they're.
Brandy (38:25):
They're just um, yeah, that I mean, that's just one
piece of of evidence that theysay um could prove his innocence
, but as of right now, he issitting in prison.
Um, they are trying to um keeplooking for pieces to put
together to show that he'sinnocent, but he has always said
(38:47):
that he didn't kill his parents.
He told 2020, I did not kill myparents at all, which I find
interesting language I don'twant to get into.
But sometimes when you end thatsentence, there are people who
look at body language and thingspeople say and sometimes when
you put something on it intothat sentence, you almost like
circle back so like I didn'tkill them at all, I didn't kill
(39:09):
them a little, I didn't killthem a lot, I didn't kill them
at all.
And so you know, I don't know.
I would be interested to seewhat some, what people thought
about this interview with 2020and just his demeanor.
Chris (39:22):
So you can find it, people can find it.
I'm more interested to seeanother trial.
Brandy (39:25):
Yeah, I mean I think that there is a reasonable doubt
to his conviction.
I mean, again, they didn't havethe weapon, they didn't test
the hair.
I mean there's a lot of thingsthat still are to be discovered
in this case.
So we shall see if the TexasInnocence Project gets anywhere
with the case of BrandonWoodruff.
(39:46):
Thank you,
Welcome all of you on in true crime lovers.
I'm Brandi and I'm Chris, andthis is Texas wine and True
Crime.
Thank you for being here,friends, for this week's episode
, the Texas Innocence Projectcase.
Hi, chris.
Chris (00:31):
Hi Brandy.
Brandy (00:33):
Good to see you.
Chris (00:34):
It's excellent to see you as well.
Brandy (00:36):
We've had some really good wine and food that we want
to tell all of our listenersabout.
Absolutely so let's jump intoit.
Burrow Blanco this month wehave Longhorn Cellars on the
show All month.
All month, their wine all month.
So exciting.
This wine was absolutelydelicious.
It is a blended white ofAlbarino, vermentino and Pic-Pul
(00:58):
Blanc, three of my favorites.
Chris (01:01):
I really enjoyed it as well.
Brandy (01:02):
Oh, it's so good, and it still feels like summer here in
Texas.
Chris (01:07):
I would agree with that, yeah.
Brandy (01:08):
So white wine is tasting super delicious, even though we
are we are jumping into falland we'll have some reds.
But, chris, what did you pairwith this beautiful white blend?
Chris (01:18):
I paired an herb crusted cod with beurre blanc sauce, as
well as a big old fat glazedcarrot and some rice pilaf.
Brandy (01:28):
You should actually just name it beurre blanc sauce
Beurre blanc To match the wine.
I did use a little bit in thesauce as well, okay, but yes, I
think it went really well.
Chris (01:37):
I was kind of looking at this wine and the blend as well
and it seemed like it said itwent good with some cream sauces
and I haven't really made aBurr Blanc ever here at the
house and so I thought it'sthat's a light sauce to go,
especially with cod, cod's kindof a light fish and whatever you
kind of put with it toaccompany it kind of absorbs
those flavors.
Brandy (01:57):
Well, it matched perfectly.
Chris (01:58):
Thank you.
Brandy (01:59):
And thank you Longhorn Cellars for being our wine of
the month.
We are um so excited to becoming down to fredericksburg
chris november.
The second is our live show atlonghorn sellers yes, it's
coming up so exciting.
So please go, grab your tickets,come see us in fredericksburg.
But, um, if you can't come tothe show but you are in
(02:21):
fredericks any other time, youneed to visit our friends over
at Longhorn Cellars.
Chris, air, smack Dab, right inthe middle of the heart of
Fredericksburg.
They have a wine club, atasting room, a calendar of
events.
They've got some cool stuffgoing on over there.
I cannot wait to be there.
Chris (02:39):
And we're on that calendar.
Brandy (02:40):
Yes, we are on that calendar.
Chris (02:42):
Yeah, this was a really good wine though.
Very yes, we are on thatcalendar.
Yeah, this was a really goodwine, though.
Brandy (02:45):
Very easy drinking.
I really liked it a lot.
Yeah, so it's the first of thefour, so hitting a home run out
of the ballpark with these wines.
So thank you, longhorn Cellarsand thank you, chris, for
pairing this amazing dish.
Thank you All right friends.
So we are going to jump intothis case to this case.
(03:10):
And, chris, I wanted to do thiscase because we are, you know,
we're going to be doing someunsolved Texas Innocence Project
case that I'm going to be, orwe are going to be, delivering
at Longhorn Sellers.
So it kind of got me thinkingabout this particular case.
We're not going to do this oneat Longhorn Sellers, but so we
decided to do it right here onour platform.
And that is just looking at allwhat the Texas Innocence Project
(03:31):
case, their active cases, right.
So one thing I want to sayabout innocence projects is they
do wonderful things.
There are thousands andthousands of wrongly
incarcerated people in oursystem, and especially in our
system, that are convicted and,you know, tried convicted of
murder, put in for life.
(03:51):
Sometimes they're given death.
And they do great things andthey look at the evidence and if
there is a you know, I wouldsay a hint or a sniff of either
a bad trial, an unfair jury, anunfair trial or really any piece
of evidence that maybe wasn'tconsidered in the initial
investigation, this is what theydo.
Chris (04:12):
It's all pro bono as well .
Brandy (04:14):
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, I think there'sprobably a way that they are
able to keep the funds up rightto be able to do these cases.
Chris (04:22):
Yes, but the incarcerated people are not.
Brandy (04:24):
That's correct, yes, so.
But I also want to say thatjust because an innocence
project picks up a case, itdoesn't necessarily mean they're
not guilty.
Chris (04:35):
Yeah, I think that's a good point to make.
Brandy (04:37):
Yeah, and I think that if there is a reason I mean,
these are professionals who arethey're attorneys and these are
professionals who are theirattorneys and these are our
professionals who are workingfor these organizations so if
they believe that there's areason to look at this evidence
again and save a life or getsomeone out of prison that
doesn't belong there, fantasticwork.
It's what, it's what our systemneeds.
But, for instances, the LosAngeles Innocence Project has
(05:01):
picked up Scott Peterson's case.
Right Now I could say, oh well,you know, here's what I think
about Scott Peterson.
But I bet if I was talking tosomeone I don't know if they
really care about the LAInnocence Project picking him up
they would maybe still considerhim guilty, right or not guilty
, depending on their view of thecase.
Chris (05:19):
Yeah, I would agree with that as well.
Brandy (05:20):
Yeah, so I think people.
So again, I want to make surethat Innocence projects are
highlighted and said out loud,because, man, they do some great
work.
They've exonerated a lot ofpeople in this country, but they
have picked up BrandonWoodruff's case and that's the
one that we're going to betalking about tonight.
So on October 18th 2005,.
(05:43):
Tonight, so on October 18th2005, a family friend of the
Woodruffs is not able to get ahold of them.
So in fact, chris, they triedgetting a hold of them for about
two days, and this is Dennisand Norma Woodruff.
So we they are in Royce City.
Chris (05:58):
Yeah, which is pretty local here.
Brandy (06:00):
Yeah, so they actually, chris.
They just recently moved.
They used to live in Heath,texas, so the reason that they
decided to move is because theyhave two children in college.
So in order to save money, Iguess, they moved downsized into
a smaller house, more availablefunds for the kids.
(06:22):
But these were very selflesspeople and they're dead.
They're actually found in thehouse when nobody can get a hold
of them.
Um, they find dennis and normawho found the crime scene, so
yeah, entered yeah, after thepolice entered um because the
person who could not get a holdof them for two days, they
(06:44):
called authorities and wanted todo a welfare check, I'll say a
wellness check yeah.
So the police arrived.
They find the gruesome scene.
Dennis is shot in the face onceand stabbed nine times, and
norma was shot multiple timesand then her neck had been
slashed.
Chris (07:00):
Now, as the investigation , gruesome, for roy city as well
too, very gruesome and thesepeople were, yeah, and they're
kind of new to town.
Brandy (07:09):
I mean, what enemies do they have just sitting in Royce
City, right, and Royce Cityprobably doesn't see a lot of
this, Maybe.
I mean, this is 2005, so thisis about 20 years ago and you
know, and so was the that.
I mean this was probably bignews.
I personally don't rememberthis case Just from like 20
(07:31):
years ago purposes, but thenonce I started reading about it,
it kind of like was I wasthinking, okay, wait, I have
heard of this Because this, oncethey started investigating the
son, Brandon Woodruff, they findout he's sort of living the
secret double life.
As the investigation islaunched, Chris, in an attempt
(07:52):
to find who did this, fingersstart pointing at the son, so
Brandon, who was living a secretdouble life that hardly anyone
knew about.
So they end up actually findingout that there were very few
people who knew about hislifestyle.
Chris (08:11):
Maybe not even a handful.
Well, by all accounts, he wasliving a normal life, yeah
that's correct.
Brandy (08:17):
Yes, Going to college.
Abilene Christian College.
Chris (08:22):
And he was quite popular.
Brandy (08:26):
Yes, he was very popular .
In fact, in high school he wasvoted like most likely to
succeed.
He had a consistent girlfriendin high school.
Chris (08:37):
Member of the FFA.
Brandy (08:38):
Yeah, member of the FFA.
I mean, he had a lot of friendsand people really liked him and
at the time, this when thishappened, in October 2005,.
He's 19 years old, so he'sgoing to college, but he is the
last one, chris, to see hisparents alive, allegedly right,
allegedly the last person to seethem alive, and that's actually
(09:01):
on October 16th of 2005.
Remember, they're found twodays later.
So the ME will come back andsay they died Sunday night
between 9 and 11 o'clock pm, allright.
So once investigators startlooking into Brandon Woodruff,
from the outside it looks likehe's living as a normal
(09:22):
19-year-old right, going tocollege, has friends, goes and
visits his parents.
His older sister is actuallygoing to college in Arkansas, so
has a very good relationshipwith her.
But they start to uncover a fewthings about Brandon Woodruff
that people didn't know abouthim.
(09:43):
The first thing, chris, is thathe was dating men, not that
that's a big deal at all, butwhen we talk about this in other
cases, when things start to bythe way, he was not forthcoming
about this information to policeand who came forward with that
information?
They start looking.
Well, they realize, once theystart talking to Brandon
(10:04):
Woodruff, that he was the lastone to see them, or at least
they think.
Chris (10:08):
But I mean, obviously the internet is not like it is now.
And so whatever they did withliving this secret life.
None of his friends knew whodid come forward with all this
information about him.
Brandy (10:21):
No, I think some knew.
But I think once they startdigging into his phone, once
they start digging into it's2005.
Chris (10:29):
What kind of phones are people?
Brandy (10:31):
having, or I don't know, maybe he had some sort of email
account, email.
Chris (10:36):
MySpace.
Myspace, I mean, think about it, that's a long time ago.
I mean, we don't have thephones like we have now.
Brandy (10:43):
you probably have a phone that was a you know what
do you call it?
Chris (10:47):
like I had buttons.
Yeah, that's right, it did youknow?
Brandy (10:50):
yeah, um, well, they start, they just, you know, they
end up finding out that brandon, at the time, had a girlfriend.
They start to question her,they just start to uncover these
things.
His story just isn't makingmuch sense, right, and it's
growing suspicion on himdirectly.
And so police just startlooking into Brandon Woodruff a
(11:11):
little bit more, and here's whatthey found.
So no, it doesn't matter, he'sdating men.
No, it doesn't.
But does it matter that hisparents were killed and they
have to look at every singlething in this guy's background?
Yeah, and could his parentshave found out about this?
Could there have been some sortof altercation Like this is
(11:33):
what they're thinking.
They find out a few more thingsabout him.
They actually find out that heis leaving the state to go and
make adult movies, and I thinkthis piece of it.
Chris (11:46):
Do we know where?
No.
Brandy (11:48):
I don't know where I mean.
Chris (11:50):
I'm sure it has where in the police reports Leaving the
state.
Brandy (11:56):
No, I just know that he was traveling to other locations
outside of Texas to do this.
Chris (12:03):
And maybe driving to Dallas too.
I guess that would be the Well.
Brandy (12:05):
Dallas is where he was hanging out in the clubs meeting
other men.
We have a fairly large yeahWell, and you know, I think it's
a big city right and I there'sa, there's some safety in
numbers, you know, and you'renot targeted in smaller areas.
I mean, what was it like forhim in heath, texas?
Chris (12:24):
well in abilene christian college, that's right probably
not a lot of um maybe, maybe notnot a lot of gay clubs,
probably in abilene no, probably, maybe.
Brandy (12:36):
uh, abilene's growing, but but you're right, dallas, I
mean, come on, they're in dallas, right.
So you're gonna come to thecity again, you're gonna meet
more people, just like youcoming to a bigger area, you
know to do so.
So, so he was doing thesethings.
They started uncovering justsome really you know interesting
(12:56):
information about this guy andthey start just questioning him
and they don't believe that hisstory makes much sense.
Upon digging just a little bitdeeper, they're not only finding
that his lifestyle may have hadsomething to do with the fact
that he could have done this tohis parents, but it's also his
(13:20):
story is kind of changing.
So there's a lot ofinconsistencies in the account
of his whereabouts, on where hewas that night.
But they also had the testimonyfrom friends that did not match
his alibi.
So he's giving them an alibi ofwhere he was.
I believe that alibi was withhis girlfriend, so I'll talk
about her in just a minute.
(13:41):
But Jansen Barnett claimed thatshe and her boyfriend, robert
Martinez, they had plans to meetwith Brandon, but they said
Brandon showed up much later,around 1020, which is not the
timeline that he had given toauthorities.
Chris (13:59):
Yeah, to me that's what you investigate.
I still, I still, am puzzled asto what his lifestyle.
Brandy (14:09):
Because I think you have a lie.
I think you have a lie hereabout time.
You hold on, I think it's holdon.
You have a lie about the alibibut I mean it's 2005.
Chris (14:18):
Okay, Lots of people were still lying about being gay.
Brandy (14:24):
I don't think it has anything to do with the secret
life.
He can have any secret life hewants.
I don't think any of thatmatters in an investigation,
unless it has something to dowith motive.
And could the motive had been,so why one?
You're right, Chris, but Ithink they did look at these
things first.
I think it's faster to talk topeople right and to get to know
(14:47):
someone by asking questions.
So I think they caught on realquick that the alibi just didn't
check out.
Chris (14:53):
I think the timeline didn't check out.
I think that's part of thething too, Like he if he has
been living this kind of doublelife and so kind of keeping that
um living, a lie of sorts.
Brandy (15:04):
That's right.
Chris (15:06):
And how.
Because, like, when you readthe stuff during the
investigation, then cover thisand cover that, like going to
get clubs performing adultmovies.
Even so, like that to medoesn't even seem like it's
relevant per se.
Brandy (15:21):
Unless it has to do with motive.
I still lack to see the motivein this thing, but we can press
on, okay so no, I want to stayon this a second, because I
think that it's important,because police are going to be
looking at all of it.
Right, they're going to belooking at the first of all, the
closest people to these.
Chris (15:41):
They're found on their couch that's the assumption that
his parents, if they found outwould be upset, sure saying that
okay.
Every parent would be upset bytheir son or daughter telling
them that that's not always thecase no so not always the case.
Brandy (15:58):
That to me doesn't lead to any motive and most time,
most of the time, if people arenot accepting of your lifestyle
they're not you're not going toturn around and kill them Right,
like that's rare.
So you have to wonder, and Ithink, what police started?
Chris (16:11):
to do and we never know that they're not accepting.
Brandy (16:13):
That's right.
We're not going to ever knowwhat happened in this house,
right?
Brandon Woodruff has finallygiven an interview this past
August of 2020.
And he's been behind bars for13 years and he spent 13,.
He's been behind bars for 13years and he was given life and
he hasn't talked about this atall.
But he has always maintainedhis innocence and he told 2020,
you know, I didn't do this to myparents and so I, you know, I
(16:37):
think that they're looking at,they're looking.
You know.
It's interesting, chris.
You bring up a good point,because if being gay is not a
motive, but then you look at thefact that our Texas Innocence
Project picks this up becausethey believe he was wrongly
(17:00):
convicted because of hislifestyle.
Chris (17:03):
I think that's a big part of it.
I mean, really, it's all of hisinconsistencies, that's right.
Where he was, not the fact thathe was gay.
Brandy (17:11):
That's right.
Chris (17:13):
So I don't know, like I said, when they say they
discover that, is that really adiscovery?
You know what I mean.
Brandy (17:20):
I guess he wasn't forthcoming with the information
about where he was, what he wasprobably doing.
I mean, they probably will theyend up finding out a lot about
this guy and where he was andwhat he says he was actually
doing.
So, chris, I think they justkind of said this guy's not
forthcoming about the questionswe're asking him.
There's inconsistencies in hisalibi and the timing we're now
(17:43):
talking to people and getting anidea.
I think it was just all of itand they moved forward, but they
focused on him.
Chris (17:49):
It's a smaller town.
That's right, and they wantthese kind of cases solved right
, not super gay friendly, and sothat probably was why they
focused on that, because, ofcourse, if you can be gay, you
could kill somebody, right?
Brandy (18:02):
That's right.
Chris (18:06):
I mean, I'm not saying that, I'm just.
You know, I think that's right.
A lot of fuss with me over that, but that's just my opinion.
Brandy (18:09):
Very true, chris.
I want to mention magic mindreal quick, if we can.
I want to talk about their nanoencapsulation technology, which
is why, chris, we take a shotevery morning.
Um, what do you?
What do you call it?
Your, your brain power food?
Chris (18:24):
Reclaim my brain.
Brandy (18:25):
Reclaim your brain, chris.
So a few things about thisbrand Magic Mind Vitamin infused
tastes great, clinically backedingredients, increases efficacy
, easy on the stomach.
It doesn't replace your coffee.
We have it right along with ourcoffee, but there's just so
many benefits to trying MagicMind.
(18:47):
What's your favorite thingabout it, chris?
Chris (18:49):
Well, I think the fact that it works you know it's not.
I of course have tried everyprobably energy and shot or
whatever you know, and that, tome, was the.
What I really liked about itwas kind of the clarity you had
after drinking it yes.
And it works really quick.
I mean I usually will take itin the morning on my way to work
.
I have a very short drive and Imean I'm not being very honest
(19:13):
by the time I get there.
Brandy (19:13):
You know it's kind of rare to get on.
Chris (19:17):
And I don't even have any coffee on my way to work.
That's right, I might have acup when I get there, but it's
it doesn't kind of leave youwith that letdown, I guess.
Brandy (19:26):
Yeah.
Chris (19:28):
What do you call it?
Brandy (19:28):
I guess the fade, or whatever that's right, it's not
about the caffeine in it.
Chris (19:33):
It has a very minute amount of caffeine.
Brandy (19:35):
Yeah, and in fact.
But it kicks in right when youneed it to, which is why I love
it.
It gives me clarity.
I take a shot, have it with mycoffee, come in, start my day.
So what you can expect is asharper mind and smooth, calm
energy.
Consistent daily use builds thebenefits of optimizing a mental
performance and supporting abalanced mood and motivation
(19:57):
over time.
Chris, our friends need to grabthis at magicmindcom and you
can use the code Texas20.
All right, Chris.
So Brandon Woodruff is now beinglooked at by police and they've
got a lot of questions for him.
They've got a lot of questionsfor friends.
But here's something else.
(20:17):
So a neighbor named RandallLunds, who lives near the old
Woodruff residence in Heath,residence in Heath he admitted
to seeing Brandon at theproperty in Heath between 10 pm
and 11 pm on the night of themurder.
So what's he doing there?
Well, they end up.
(20:39):
In June of 2008, a family memberfinds a dagger in the barn of
the Woodruff's old house inHeath, Texas.
So Dennis Woodruff's blood,Chris, ends up being on this
weapon.
Brandon Woodruff's formercollege roommate testified that
dagger was the same one Woodruffhad in his dorm room.
(21:02):
Authorities could not concludeif the dagger found was the
murder weapon.
But Chris Woodruff denies thatthe weapon is his, that he has
ever used it on his father.
But this is what you have aneyewitness, and then you have
someone that actually that heactually leaves it there.
(21:23):
So this isn't uncommon.
We see people hide things allthe time rather than getting rid
of them.
So few people testified thatthat is exactly the same kind of
knife he had in his dorm room,and so what do you do with that?
I mean, it has the father'sblood on it.
Chris (21:40):
Well, I think we discussed this before.
I mean, I don't know, I have alot of knives.
Brandy (21:44):
Yes.
Chris (21:45):
Cut myself on a lot of those knives.
I'm sure my blood is probablyon a lot of those knives, so I
don't know.
Was it one that maybe his dadowned and he got it Did?
Brandy (21:54):
he cut himself?
I don't know.
Chris (21:55):
How much blood Was it cleaned?
And they found a scan amount.
That was one thing I reallycouldn't determine, Like was it
blood covered or did they, youknow, was it cleaned and they
saw like very trace amounts, andso I'm not sure I mean, yes,
that is pretty damning, I willsay.
But you know, like I said, Iassume he would.
Brandy (22:14):
I would assume it was cleaned off and then they tested
it for blood and found a lot ofmy knives.
Chris (22:18):
If they came here and I ended up stabbed, they may look.
Brandy (22:20):
I mean most people don't close their knife or leave a
knife bloody right like you,somebody I would know you wipe
it off, but I mean I.
Chris (22:26):
I can honestly say, like the other day, I cut my finger
and I don't think I um washed it.
I just wiped it off on my pantleg or whatever, like a redneck
would do.
So I mean I don't know, youknow, I mean that happens a lot,
and so yeah so I don't know,like said, did the knife belong
to his father in the past?
Who knows was it?
I mean, couldn't find a lot ofthat information that was like
was it blood covered or what?
(22:47):
Did they just analyze it andsolve scandals?
Brandy (22:50):
Michelle Lee.
Chris, the mother of Woodruff'sgirlfriend at the time, also
contacted law enforcement toreport that a gun and bullets
were missing from her home.
Woodruff had been in her homethe weekend before his parents
were found dead.
Had been in her home theweekend before his parents were
found dead.
Investigators compared a bulletfound at the crime scene with a
(23:11):
bullet from the Lee home andsaid they believed they were
consistent.
The Lee's gun was never found,but investigators believe it was
the same caliber as the weaponused in the crime A murder
weapon.
Chris has never been recoveredand again, woodruff denies
stealing this gun.
Chris (23:25):
And when you say believe, though, is that definitive.
Brandy (23:30):
I think they probably it was the same caliber, right?
I think it was similar enoughfor them to.
You know, sometimes it's likewhen you're looking at the
bullet fragments and you compareit, they are, they have to like
shoot it, so I'm sure theytested it.
They have to shoot it, so I'msure they tested it.
Yeah, ballistics probablytested it and shot from a
similar gun and determined thatit was most likely this type of
(23:57):
weapon.
Now Michelle Lee will admitthat she didn't know when the
gun had gone missing.
She just couldn't find the gun.
Somebody clearly had taken it,but she could not tell police
when that may have been taken.
Chris (24:15):
Because she didn't really know and they never found that
gun, they never found it.
So then they didn't shootanything or do any ballistics
testing.
Brandy (24:20):
No, but I mean they found.
But she had ammunition for theweapon and knew what kind of gun
it was.
So they probably got anotherdummy gun right and compared it
and shot him.
Chris (24:29):
No, each gun is pretty unique.
Brandy (24:32):
They have when they find a caliber at a crime scene,
they don't necessarily have themurder weapon.
They get a similar gun and theyshoot it to see what kind of
damage it would do to the bullet.
Is it consistent?
Chris (24:44):
Yeah, but every barrel has rifling in it.
That's what they tell if theyfind a gun they can look at the
spent bullet that's in the bodythat's right compare it to the
rifling.
They don't have this, they'rejust saying it's the same
caliber right and there's a lotof caliber, you know.
I mean like I don't know Ithink they're.
Brandy (25:02):
I think you raise a great point it could be a very
common.
That's right I don't know that.
I think you raise a great point.
It could be a very common.
Chris (25:06):
That's right.
I don't know that.
But we could never really findwhat the caliber was.
But the gun is missing.
Nobody can find it.
That's right so that is onceagain another red flag.
Brandy (25:15):
Yeah, gun's missing Is never found.
She did admit that he knewwhere the gun was, we believe
it's the same caliber.
Chris (25:25):
We believe these things Like I would think, I'd want to,
like, I'm sure.
Brandy (25:28):
Well, it raises questions.
Chris (25:29):
Well, I'm sure that this bullet here was a 9mm.
It was a 9mm that was at thehouse.
It's gone.
That's right, so we can putthose two together.
Brandy (25:39):
Which is what they did, which is why they're not
definitive, which is why I thinkthe Texas Innocence Project has
picked up this case I thinkthere's some questions in it
right, and the organizationTexas Innocence Project.
When they decided to take alook at this case, they
basically said that there wasprejudice against him due to his
sexuality and that played arole in his conviction.
(26:01):
So in April of 2022, severalpeople went before the Texas
Court of Criminal Appeals inAustin and protested free
Brandon Woodruff.
His family has supported him.
His grandmother.
What was his trial?
Chris (26:16):
That is, I'm trying to think of that counting.
Brandy (26:19):
Yeah, I don't think I have it right here where it was,
but people were coming forwardand saying that you know they
wanted him freed.
Chris (26:33):
Like did he have a public defender or he had an attorney?
Brandy (26:36):
Yeah, I'm sure he had an attorney, because that's the
one thing he's on a death.
I mean he was on a life case, Imean he's on a capital murder
case.
That takes money, though.
Chris (26:46):
If you have no money, you don't just get an attorney, you
have to take a public defender.
Because I would think one thingtoo all the evidence that they
entered regarding his sexualityand going to gay bars, yada,
yada, yada.
I don't even know how that'sadmissible, because we're.
It's purely speculation thatyou say.
Well, his parents found out he,they were upset, they had an
(27:07):
argument, they didn't approve,he killed them it's called
circumstantial evidence.
Brandy (27:13):
They have the bodies right.
That's the one piece ofevidence that's always missing
when you're tryingcircumstantial right.
You don't have a body.
Well, they have a body and whatdo they notice?
They notice that these peopleare, like, overly killed.
There's a little bit of passionwhen it comes to stabbing
someone nine times and shootingthem I still that.
Chris (27:32):
I still stand behind, though I don't know what him
being gay and dancing in gaybars and whatever else he was
doing in his gay lifestylenecessitates murder because,
like I said, we have this wellof course you don't think that,
but you don't, you are.
Brandy (27:49):
I mean, but think about that.
What if you are someone likehim who let's say he did this,
okay, because that I, you know,he's.
I all I know is the fact.
And the fact is that he wasfound guilty and he's serving a
life sentence in Tennessee,colony, texas, at Mark W Michael
Union.
Chris (28:06):
So he's there, I just think you look at the evidence,
his questionable stories, cellphone records that show that he
was somewhere in the proximity.
Brandy (28:15):
Whatever email live space, whatever it's using, I
still don't.
Chris (28:18):
I think that was a reason to get 12 people in whatever
little town that they did thisin, to convict him even further
and not like the guy.
But I would think that beinggay is completely inadmissible,
because I don't think that stillpoints to a motive, because I
mean, you're making anassumption that his parents
would disapprove, and that'ssomething you know.
(28:40):
I don't know.
Like I said, it's not like hestole money from him or whatever
.
I mean, I think those are alittle different things.
I just don't know.
But that's just me, whateveryou know.
But that's why this texasinstance project has picked this
up to you.
Perhaps shed some light onthose things, who knows?
Brandy (28:57):
well and I know so.
So bonnie woodruff, uh,grandmother, um, she basically
says she knows that Brandon waswrongfully judged, right and you
know.
And murder, like you said, whywould he do that?
She's like I know he didn't dothat.
Someone else is letting himbasically take the blame for
(29:20):
this, but they do believe thatwhoever did this to this couple
knew them and knew them well.
There wasn't any sort of forcedentry into the home.
They looked into all of this.
They'd never thought a strangeror someone who would have had
any beef with a family that justmoved into Roy's city would
have had, and so- I don't doubtany of that.
(29:40):
And then they just go back tocommon sense, right?
What do we always say?
What were they doing 24 to 40hours before their death?
Well, they're hanging out withtheir son having pizza, which he
said was a normal night, andthen he leaves.
Could he be telling the truth?
Sure, but you know he's lyingup front and that's a big
problem.
And you know what.
That's a big problem and youknow what.
Don't lie, because this is whathappens.
Chris (30:01):
I just think he could have killed him for another
reason.
Brandy (30:04):
Okay, what would that reason be?
Chris (30:05):
That I don't know.
Okay, interesting, I don't know, because if he was heterosexual
, Okay Then what's his motive?
Brandy (30:15):
But these are secrets, Chris.
I want you to think about this.
These are secrets that peopleclosest to him don't even know
about him.
He can be doing this and Idon't care if he's doing this or
not.
He's a 19-year-old guy.
He can do whatever he wants,but if it has to do with motive,
if it has anything to do withmotive, then they're going to
(30:36):
care about this and look at it.
Chris (30:39):
And if he's lying up front— but if he was
heterosexual okay is there amotive?
What's the motive?
Brandy (30:44):
that's not a secret, though this if he was not, if
they knew he was heterosexualand he was chris, he had a
girlfriend at the time.
I think he dated both Iwouldn't even say.
Chris (30:53):
Apparently some people knew about this.
Brandy (30:56):
It couldn't have been that big of a secret it was a
secret, nobody really in hisfamily to find out that he's
doing gay porn films yeah, whichis a big thing.
Chris dancing.
Who do you just meet and go dothat dancing at a club, right?
Chris (31:10):
dancing at a strip club, whatever somebody.
I mean, you don't just findthat out.
Somebody knew that stuff andsomebody already kind of knew
those things and they, I mean,how did they get the information
you know?
I mean, well, I'm sure they gotit from a few sources.
Brandy (31:21):
Looking into his background, kind of knew those
things and they, I mean, how didthey get the information?
You know what I mean.
Well, I'm sure they got it froma few sources looking into his
background, really finding outhis alibi, finding out, pulling
records, who knows if hetraveled, if they ended up
finding out that this guy wastraveling with you know, pulling
you know, and then you and thenyou realize, well, why is he
traveling to these places?
So I think there was a lot ofevidence behind some of this
(31:44):
stuff and it was kind of policefelt.
It was probably a really bigthing to keep.
There's a lot going on in thisguy's background and he's just
doing studying at AbileneChristian University.
That's who his parents think heis.
Chris (32:02):
Sounds like he was making money.
Brandy (32:04):
Well, I know, but not everyone.
But I just want you to thinkabout that.
There's a reason.
These were secrets to him.
Chris (32:14):
And there's a reason that that his parents didn't know.
I think it was a secret, butgiven it was 2005 and people
were still reluctant to come out, that's the only reason I think
it was a secret.
Brandy (32:21):
And that could have been why he didn't tell police.
Maybe he didn't want and maybehe he's 19.
He probably.
I don't think he has a right totell police.
Chris (32:29):
How do you tell police what your sexuality is?
Why?
How do you tell police I go togay clubs.
I go dance at gay clubs.
Brandy (32:36):
Because they ask questions like what do you do on
your free time?
Where have you been?
What were you doing?
Chris (32:40):
I don't think a police officer has ever asked me who I
sleep with?
No, but that's not the directquestion.
Brandy (32:45):
But they're going to get to that?
Who were you involved with?
Because if they didn't, if theythought it was him but they
thought maybe he brought someoneelse in to do it, then you want
to know those things right.
Who are your friends?
Who are you hanging out with?
He's 19.
So I think it was a.
You know, if he's innocent,then maybe he should have just
(33:08):
been a little bit moreforthcoming.
But Chris the alibi didn'tcheck out, so they've got a
problem with his timeline.
No, no.
Chris (33:15):
I think there's a tremendous amount of evidence to
point that this guy could beguilty.
What I think, though?
Is introducing all this extraextraneous stuff, which to me
has no relevance, can alsosomehow taint a jury.
You could have a you know, agroup of people that are against
this there are still a lot ofpeople that look down on people
(33:37):
who are gay, and so that to meis a tactic used by the
prosecution to paint him in anegative light, in a villain or
a demon to some degree.
I mean, listen, I've grown uphere my whole life.
That's a smaller town.
I imagine a lot of gay peopleget out of Royce City as fast as
they can to go someplace that'sa little more friendly, like
here in Dallas.
We have a very gay friendlycommunity here and I just that's
(33:59):
the one part I disagree withthis whole thing Because I don't
.
I think that to me it's atremendous amount of evidence,
but I think that can affect ajury and their mind, and you
know a lot of things, especiallygiven the time when this was
occurring and also what part ofthe country you're in what part
(34:27):
of the country you're in, whatpart of the state, who knows?
Brandy (34:29):
you know?
Like I said, that's a that canbe very damning.
Yes, uh, well, we know we had a.
We know they had a cell phone,chris, because they did pull
records into that phone.
Um, and the problem with hisalibi is that the window of
opportunity to commit themurders was there.
I mean, they could just neveraccount for the time that the
estimated time of death was forthis couple and and I think
that's their biggest problemwith this case is that he was
supposed to meet people but thenhe was late, but then he wasn't
(34:52):
where he was supposed to be andthen cell phone records say
something completely different.
Chris (34:57):
Like I said, there's a tremendous amount of evidence
which points to him.
Brandy (35:01):
I mean there's a tremendous amount of evidence
which points to him.
I mean, I think it almost.
I think they also said it wouldhave had to been done in like
20 minutes, but I guess that'sprobably still plenty of time to
do that, but I don't know.
I think that that's really thetimeline will only make sense if
you can kind of get out of this20 minute gap.
(35:24):
But they're saying that thatgap is enough to tell them that
this guy could have probablydone this.
Chris (35:31):
I think he could have done it.
I just don't think it's becausehe's gay.
Brandy (35:36):
Okay.
Well, we don't know what thatconversation was with his
parents.
So if he is guilty, why wouldhe do that?
Chris (35:43):
There could have been a number of reasons.
Just like anybody else whokills their parents, I mean
there's who knows what thatreason is.
Brandy (35:52):
Well, chris, it's usually money, sex or power.
Chris (35:56):
I think they're trying to paint the motive and the reason
was because, he was gay.
Maybe his parents found out,they got upset and angry.
He couldn't deal with it.
He had to deal with him likethis to me that they have made
up a motive, you know I meanbecause it could be anything.
Who knows, it could have beenover money.
Well, we don't know that, but Ithink they have a lot of times.
(36:17):
You know the motive we have.
We it's very clear, like Idon't think this is a clear
motive, just the fact that heyou are absolutely 100, correct.
Brandy (36:26):
We have no idea what happened in that house.
You're right, and I think thisis why the texas innocence
project well, chris, and alsothey found a clump of hair in
the woman's hand okay, longblonde hair and they never
tested this hair.
And this is a big piece of whythe texas innocence project has
picked this up.
They want this hair tested.
Chris (36:47):
I mean, this is august of 2024 yeah, because they're
saying that the advantage to himif his parents are dead.
Brandy (36:53):
I mean he's 19 they don't have money, really, do
they?
Chris (36:56):
there's no.
I mean, what is he other?
Brandy (36:58):
than no.
Chris (36:58):
To help pay for their kids in college, they downsize
their house I mean I'm gonna,I'm going to have somebody else
do it and I'm going to gain,like there really was nothing to
gain from this other than, youknow, just being mad and having
them dead.
So I don't know, but those aremy feelings on it.
Brandy (37:16):
Yeah, no, I agree, and I think there are lots of
questions, which is why thatthey have picked up this case.
They want the hair tested.
They, you know, want probablyto look at all of the records.
I'm sure, hopefully, maybe theyprobably have that by now.
Sometimes it's hard to get someof that evidence from the
(37:38):
police when the InnocenceProject picks these up, but
they're gonna.
They just want some of thistested and I and I think one.
Chris (37:45):
I think too the fact that they didn't test the hair.
Brandy (37:47):
Yes, they have it that is um very interesting well, I
know, and not only that, anothercase that I was looking at the
texas innocence project.
Chris (37:56):
There was a that is direct evidence to point who may
have been in that house, not agun that they can't find.
However, the blade that theydid find with blood is a very,
like I said, that points a lotof fingers towards him, but that
to me, like that, tells you whowas in that house and who is
potentially responsible?
Yeah, law enforcement nevertested the hair and they
(38:21):
probably won't be able to findit if there's a real job and um,
yeah, they're.
Brandy (38:25):
They're just um, yeah, that I mean, that's just one
piece of of evidence that theysay um could prove his innocence
, but as of right now, he issitting in prison.
Um, they are trying to um keeplooking for pieces to put
together to show that he'sinnocent, but he has always said
(38:47):
that he didn't kill his parents.
He told 2020, I did not kill myparents at all, which I find
interesting language I don'twant to get into.
But sometimes when you end thatsentence, there are people who
look at body language and thingspeople say and sometimes when
you put something on it intothat sentence, you almost like
circle back so like I didn'tkill them at all, I didn't kill
(39:09):
them a little, I didn't killthem a lot, I didn't kill them
at all.
And so you know, I don't know.
I would be interested to seewhat some, what people thought
about this interview with 2020and just his demeanor.
Chris (39:22):
So you can find it, people can find it.
I'm more interested to seeanother trial.
Brandy (39:25):
Yeah, I mean I think that there is a reasonable doubt
to his conviction.
I mean, again, they didn't havethe weapon, they didn't test
the hair.
I mean there's a lot of thingsthat still are to be discovered
in this case.
So we shall see if the TexasInnocence Project gets anywhere
with the case of BrandonWoodruff.
(39:46):
Thank you,
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