August 19, 2025 • 44 mins
When 24-year-old Jennifer Kesse failed to show up for work on January 24, 2006, her colleagues knew something was terribly wrong. The finance graduate had just bought her first condo in a gated Orlando community – chosen specifically because Jennifer was exceptionally safety-conscious. What happened between 10 PM the night before and 8 AM that morning has remained one of Florida's most baffling mysteries for nearly two decades.
The clues left behind paint a perplexing picture. A damp towel in the bathroom. Clothes laid out for work. Two cell phones with SIM cards mysteriously removed. And most crucially, her car found abandoned at a nearby apartment complex with security footage capturing a grainy image of someone parking it and walking away. An eyewitness reported seeing her car leaving her condo complex "driving erratically, as if two people were fighting over the steering wheel."
Jennifer's disappearance occurred while her condo complex was under construction, with numerous undocumented workers on site who reportedly "scattered like flies" once police began investigating. She had previously mentioned to her parents that some workers made her uncomfortable with their staring and occasional cat-calling – complaints other women in the complex had also made. Was this relevant to her disappearance, or merely a coincidence?
Hope for resolution has recently emerged with Florida law enforcement announcing they have "several persons of interest" and are testing DNA evidence that may finally provide answers. After twenty years, could modern forensic technology finally reveal what happened to Jennifer Kesse that January morning? Join us as we examine the evidence, explore the theories, and discuss why this case continues to haunt investigators two decades later.
Magic Mind
🌟🌟 Transform Your Life in Just 30 Days! 🌟🌟
Are you ready to experience unparalleled focus, energy, and productivity magic mind has to offer?
Chris, we undeniably love this stuff! After using Magic Mind for 30 days, I can confidently say it’s a
game-changer! Here’s what I achieved:
✨ Enhanced Focus: Say goodbye to distractions and hello to laser-sharp concentration. I tackled
my tasks with ease and efficiency.
⚡ Boosted Energy: No more afternoon slumps! I felt energized and motivated throughout the day,
ready to take on any challenge.
🧠🧠 Improved Cognitive Function: My memory and problem-solving skills reached new heights. I felt
sharper and more creative than ever before.
🌿🌿 Natural Ingredients: Magic Mind’s blend of nootropics, adaptogens, and natural ingredients
worked wonders without any jitters or crashes.
Don’t just take my word for it – try Magic Mind for yourself and unlock your true potential!
Order now and start your 30-day transformation today!
http://magicmind.com/texaswine20
www.texaswineandtruecrime.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Welcome all of you wine and true crime lovers.
I'm Brandi.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And I'm Chris.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And this is Texas Wine and True Crime.
Thank you for being here,friends, for this week's episode
the Disappearance of JenniferKessie.
Hey, chris.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey Brandi.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Nice to be back in the studio it is nice to be back
in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I would agree with that.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I am really glad we're covering this case.
Well, we covered this case in alive show because we showed the
video, the grainy video thatwe're going to talk about, but
we are traveling out of Texasand to Orlando, florida, for
this case, so we are going backto 2006.
(00:57):
So January 23rd 24th is thetimeline we're talking about
when Jennifer Kessie disappeared.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Coming up on the 20-year anniversary.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, 20-year anniversary.
A few things to note here.
She was living in Orlandoworking as a 24-year-old,
freshly out of college financemajor, and was working for a
timeshare company.
Yes, great place to work forthose in Orlando.
Yeah, and making good money too, making great money.
(01:30):
She had just bought her owncondo.
So her parents were so proudshe bought it with her own money
, bought her first condo, andshe bought this at the Mosaic at
Millennia, so that is the nameof the condo complex she was
living at the gated communitywith security which is why she
chose it.
Yes, family has come forward andsaid this is that is like one
(01:52):
of the particular reasons thatshe chose um that location.
But this complex was stillunder construction now, not
construction like roadconstruction outside, where
there's a lot of workers, youknow, laying down cement.
These are condos that are beingbuilt, that are being renovated
(02:15):
and on the inside right.
So we know now that a lot ofthese construction workers who
were a lot of them wereundocumented, a lot of them.
We know that the company, theactual company who employed
these workers, actually did notkeep great records of who they
(02:38):
actually were, and now we knowthat they were living.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
They were probably just working for a contractor.
I would imagine, yes, so thecontractor actually probably
didn't keep, probably justworking for a contractor.
I would imagine yes, so thecontractor actually probably
didn't keep great records.
That's right, I would think.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
But, chris, they were living in this condo complex
and I, even with some of myresearch and some of the things
that I have talked to peoplevery closely in this case, they
think there was actually up tofive to ten workers living in
one condo.
Now was it the only one.
(03:12):
We don't really know.
Did they have names of thesepeople actually living in this
condo?
No, so bad records, lack ofnames.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, typically I was going to say if you run a condo
or I mean, these are actuallypurchased, but if you're living
there you'd have to have abackground check of some sort to
stay there on the premises.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
You know, I don't know this for sure, but I almost
wonder if the contractor andthe owner of the condo happen to
have some sort of relationship.
Owner of the condo happened tohave some sort of relationship.
It just seems like you have thecondo complex not keeping good
records and you have thiscontractor not keeping good
records.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Oh, I imagine that was part of the deal.
You know, probably get a littlebit of break.
Let some of my workers stayhere.
You get a price break on the.
You know the work.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I mean maybe.
So I'm sure the Kessie familyknows the answer to that.
But what we do know is thatnames were not kept.
There were multiple peopleliving in the condo that didn't
have a lease right.
They didn't have a lease there.
There was no paperwork on them.
So that is something weactually know now that we're
talking about this almost 20years later.
(04:22):
So at the time, because therewere other condos being built in
the complex, they weren't allleased out.
So I would say there wasprobably a bare minimum amount
of people living there at thetime that Jennifer was living
there.
We also know now that severalwomen who were living in this
(04:44):
condo complex had the samecomplaints as Jennifer Kessy did
Now.
Jennifer had told her parentsthat these workers kind of made
her feel uncomfortable.
Sometimes there was a littlecat calling, sometimes there was
just a little bit of staringand not saying anything, which
as a woman, is the worst,because you don't know what
they're thinking.
They're just looking at you.
But we now know that otherwomen were making complaints
(05:09):
about this at the time.
This is actually beforeJennifer disappeared, so before
and after.
So we know that this was aproblem.
Whether this has to do with herdisappearance?
We don't know.
I say the video looks likepeople have said a painter suit,
(05:29):
a working suit, some sort ofchef outfit.
I mean it's hard to tell byvideo.
They have come out and saidthat the outfits are you okay.
Yeah, keep going, all right.
Okay, that's how we roll,that's how we roll, all right.
(05:50):
So she's telling her parents alittle bit about this, but again
, well, it's she was very safe,conscious, and so I don't think
her parents worry too much andit's a gated community and
there's a lot of trust there,right, so I think she had a lot
of trust in this place.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
It's not to imply, because they were undocumented
workers, that they'reimmediately responsible.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Oh, my God no.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
It's just the fact that there are people that were
living there that you basicallyhave a difficult time if they're
considered as a suspectreaching out to them.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah.
I mean this absolutely 100%hindered the investigation.
They couldn't find them thenext day, I mean, some of them
didn't come back, right so it, Imean her brother will end up
next day after the police camecorrect so this is just finding.
(06:37):
Yeah, this is after I mean we'rejumping a little too far ahead,
but yeah, so let's kind of talkabout the weekend that goes
into the days that shedisappeared.
Because even now, by the way,the Kessie sued Florida for the
records.
They wanted their owninvestigation.
(06:58):
They hired a PI and decidedthat they were going to
investigate their daughter'scase because they felt like
there was a lot that the policewere not doing, especially in
the beginning.
I mean, you have the parentsthat get the phone call that
their daughter does not show upfor work.
So she gets back in town, chris, that weekend from a tropical
(07:18):
vacation with her boyfriend Herboyfriend's, living about three
hours away from Orlando.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I think they were in St Croix correct.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, they had gone on vacation.
They come back, she goes towork on Monday.
So she shows up, goes to workon Monday, and then we know she
comes home from work becausethere was a phone call that she
has with her boyfriend thatnight.
And then you have her brother,who also spoke to her that night
(07:49):
, because her brother's Logan,his friend, had, um, they
basically they had been atJennifer's condo and the friend
left his phone there.
Okay, so her brother asked her,you know, can you ship it to
him?
And she agreed basically toovernight it to him.
(08:09):
So this is where a lot of thetimeline is either not clear.
When it comes to now.
Again, I don't have the policerecords, but here's what we know
.
We know that the last phonecall to her, the last person
that heard from her, it wasaround 10 o'clock, like right
before 10 o'clock, and thenagain at 8 am when she doesn't
(08:30):
show up for work.
So we've got a pretty big gaptimeline here 10 pm to 8 am,
going into the 24th.
So, by the way, can I just giveprops to the company that she
worked for, because when thatgirl did not show up for work,
they thought this is veryunusual.
(08:51):
This is not like her, and theyimmediately call her parents
wondering where she is.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, I was puzzled by that.
I just I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Kind of going I don't want to say it doesn't sound
like going above and beyond, butI'm assuming that she had that
as a point like emergencycontact.
And so that's kind of unusualfor even your coworkers to do
something like that like callyour parents.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Well, I think that people just don't think.
I mean, she's 24, freshly outof college, right, Just not long
and so I think there's just asense of like looking out for
her.
They know she's living herewithout family, right, she's got
her own place and it was justunusual.
But I just want to say this iswhy I, you know, and Chris, I
(09:39):
was even talking to- somebodyher boyfriend, you know tried
reach out too.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
He didn't even really and I'm not trying to slam on
him, but I mean, even he waskind of trying to let it
marinate.
I guess you might say See whathappens, maybe she's at work,
maybe she's not answering justbecause she's busy, versus the
response from the company.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, and I think also it's like do you really
think something's going tohappen to somebody as an adult?
I think there's just this.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
These people did.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Well, there's just this sense of like calm about us
, I think, as adults, and likeour ability to think how safe,
how safety conscious we reallyare.
But are we?
I mean because this girl youknow from, according to her
parents and friends, was likeone of the safest people ever,
right?
I mean, she constantly talkedabout being safe, she would have
(10:30):
conversations with her motherabout this kind of thing, so for
her to somehow be caught offguard and be abducted because
this is what we believe happenedto her, what was the scenario?
You know, that's the puzzlingpiece of this is like we really
just don't know what happenedbetween 10 and eight o'clock.
(10:52):
But here's a few things we doknow.
When the parents get the phonecall the brother, the parents,
they're coming down differentdirections, have their own cars,
but they both show up at theapartment.
You know, within like I wouldsay like mid-afternoon time
frame, the apartment managerlets them in the apartment.
Okay, her brother will actuallyuse the words, I think,
(11:14):
uncooperative, when he wasactually trying to ask the
workers that he did see there ifthey had seen his sister.
So they're really just tryingto get information, but the
apartment manager lets them in.
So here's a few things that wesee in the apartment.
She has a wet towel that's inthe bathroom, there's water in
(11:37):
the shower, she had clothes thathad either been tried on or
laid out on her bed and itlooked like she was getting
ready for work.
So we talk, we go back to thistimeframe of 10 to eight.
Um, her mother has come forwardand said that she did not
shower at night.
(11:57):
She would have always showeredin the morning.
And would there still be like apretty, would there be still a
significant amount of water inthe shower if it would have done
the night before?
So we're going to talk aboutthe cell phones being powered
off, because we do know that isa fact.
They were powered off, and whenI say phones, I mean her phone
(12:20):
and I mean her brother's,friend's phone.
They're both turned off.
Both SIM cards are removed atsome point.
So at first, chris, they saidthis happened at like 1045.
But I think, hopefully maybethe Keseys have a better idea
now that they've looked in thesepolice reports.
I don't know if they do or not,but I do know that they came
(12:41):
out and the family came out andsaid this we don't actually know
that this was taken out at 1045.
We actually don't know whenthey were powered off of the SIM
cards taken out.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
That's weird.
If you're leaving the phonethere, what would be the purpose
of removing the SIM card?
Well, I don't know, Remembershe's bringing this phone to
work Now hold on.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
She's taking this phone to work to overnight it.
She has a UPS store inside.
Go ahead and overnight it.
And her mother said ridiculous,my daughter would not have left
(13:29):
, she would have gone to bed.
She has a UPS store in herbuilding.
She would have done the smartthing, which is wait till she's
at work the next day and thenship it from there.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, that doesn't explain the SIM card removal.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
No, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I could think that somebody would do that as if she
was having some correspondencewith someone.
And you know, with those olderphones, if I remember correctly
when you pulled the SIM card out, that's for all your contacts
or any call history, even yourmessages, because those six
you're probably still doing likealphanumeric messages on your
(14:02):
you know click phone or whateverflip phone.
So yeah, I don't know, maybethat would be the reason why,
because if it was somebody,let's just you know, suspecting
that it would be somebodyexternal, not somebody from the
apartment, because that would bethe only reason I could think
of, Because typically you knowyour SIM card's kind of your
tracker, you know where you'd begoing around and you're not
(14:23):
taking the phone and staying inthe apartment.
Why go that extra step?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Well, the one thing I think is she was going to have
that phone on her, her brother'sfriend's phone.
Because that's To go to workbecause she's shipping it.
So that is why I believe thatdid not happen the night before.
(14:53):
I believe the reason that bothof those phones were found
turned off, sim cards removed,was because she had them both on
her, and to me I don't see thathappening at the night.
I see her going to sleep.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I don't see her leaving the apartment, Having
them on her what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Like she had her brother's, friend's phone to
take to work, to ship overnight.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, I'm just saying even too, with these older
phones.
I mean, and think about theyear.
How many people have phones tohave that knowledge, to know
that this thing has a card in itthat you can remove, to remove
the data from the phone?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
But what's the other reason to remove a SIM card?
Do people remove SIM cards?
Who are going to steal phones?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
No.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
They weren't stolen, they were there.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
The phones.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
They tracked the phone.
That's how they knew it hadbeen turned off.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I thought the SIM they didn't find the phones.
But the SIM card you're sayingI got you.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Do you see what I'm saying?
It was removed.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
You're saying they removed them so they couldn't be
tracked.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Right.
So I'm saying the only Ifyou're a stranger and you find
two phones, okay, where are youlooking for two phones, unless
they're on jennifer?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
well, and also, I think too, then, thinking about
just still, with that wholeturning, disabling the phone, um
suggests that you know, know, Imean, I would think even back
then you'd probably have to haveyou know, that a level of
intelligence to know that that'sgoing to keep them from
(16:33):
tracking that you so I mean, Iwould think the average lay
person who owned a phoneprobably didn't realize that
walking around with a phone Iwould.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I would say I I hope her parents have more
information about the phones andaround what time this might
have happened.
But I think what I wanted tomake sure we clear up is that
police had always said that theywere powered down, SIM card
(17:01):
removed around 1045 PM.
But now we know, based on justinterviews with family, that
they could actually not pinpointa timeline of when, of when,
this actually happened.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So yeah, and I would just have to, for me personally
to, just if the phone's turnedoff, how do you know the SIM
card has been removed?
You know, I think those twokind of go on coordinates.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I don't know.
Maybe it doesn't ping orsomething.
Maybe there's some data thatisn't collected when SIM cards
are removed.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
That's the only thing I can think of, and me
personally.
Didn't know that a phone wouldtransmit any data if it was even
just turned off I mean ouriPhones if it's turned off.
Are you able to track the?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Oh, I think you can right.
I think, you can ping a tower.
See, I don't know, technology'scome so far in these 20 years.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It's lost in the woods and their phone dies.
They can't just track them atthe point where they're?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
at if there's no battery.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
So I don't know.
I guess that's Sorry to stick.
On the SIM card thing, I justthink that's an odd note of how
they determined that, um,because I think that's just a
whole new level of somebodygoing that extra mile to make
sure not found, which would makeme lead to believe it's just
not the average bystander, oryou know that's somebody that
maybe knew her constructionworker.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I guess that's right so that kind of if, if indeed
this person was communicatingwith her and you, did this
person know she had two phoneson her?
I don't know, did she know thathe that that the friend had
left the phone at her apartment?
I mean, maybe you know, I don'tknow, but you're right,
(18:39):
typically somebody who was atotal stranger isn't going to
care about that because they'vehad no correspondence with the
person.
All right.
So when the parents get toOrlando they're looking for
their daughter, they call thepolice.
Police, I would say she's anadult, she'll probably come back
.
(19:00):
They try to tell them this isvery much unlike our daughter.
They were handing out flyers,they were really pressing for
information and police startquestioning people.
Chris, it's always been saidthat law enforcement I wouldn't
say made the excuse, but to somepeople it sounded like an
(19:23):
excuse that because of thelanguage barriers that they were
dealing with with some of theworkers it was hard to interview
very early on.
People always said like reallywe can't have, we don't have
anybody bilingual in the Floridalaw enforcement, you know so.
But so I would say this is kindof an issue and again they
(19:47):
scattered like flies right.
So it was hard to find some ofthese people even 24 to 48 hours
after she went missing.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And I think a big reason for that is if they were
undocumented and police arecoming, they're not going to
stick around.
They aren't so they aren'tcompletely unrelated to any
disappearance.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
That's right, exactly , but I think it's.
You know.
You now have her telling herparents how uncomfortable she's
feeling.
You know that they are livingin the apartments directly
across from, or the condosdirectly across from, jennifer's
.
The belief is that she had tohave been taken by surprise
(20:24):
because she was such high alertabout her comings and goings
that it would have been almostan element of surprise to her.
So, you know, did she come outof her apartment and then
somebody came up from behind her.
You know, as she's leaving, Iwant to talk to my moms out
there.
I'm sure your days are nonstoplike mine, juggling work, family
(20:47):
and everything in between.
Since adding Magic Mind to mymornings, it's like I've become
Super Mom.
It was a noticeable shift.
It gave me nice, steady energywithout the crash, helps me stay
calm during the chaos andsharpens my focus so I can be
fully present Whether I'm on awork teams call or helping with
(21:08):
homework.
It's become a small butpowerful way to support both my
productivity and my peace ofmind.
Peace of mind, moms.
So, moms, we all know how muchmental clarity and focus are
important Supports better focuswhile multitasking how many of
us do that?
Reduce caffeine dependency Okay, moms.
I know how much coffee we drinkin the morning, but it just
(21:30):
goes right next to my coffee.
Sip it quick, little green shotand I'm calm under pressure.
It's those adaptogens that arehelping me regulate stress,
promoting calm during thosechaotic moments.
More presence and patience.
We could all use a dance'smindfulness so you can be more
present with your kids, spouse,or even during solo time.
(21:53):
So, all right, moms, head overto magicmindcom and use the code
TexasWine20 for 20% off.
That's magicmindcom codeTexasWine20.
Stay curious, stay focused,reclaim your brain with Magic
Mind.
All right, chris.
So here we go into theinvestigation.
Now she has disappeared.
(22:15):
We need to find her.
So they start pulling videofootage.
You know cameras trying to seewhat's working, what isn't
working, and they actually finda video that picks up what.
Now here's what we know the carJennifer's car is found in an
(22:35):
apartment complex about a milemile and a mile and a half away
from her condo.
Okay, so, very close, and Iwant to be I think this is an
important piece of thisinvestigation.
It's very close to where we arepresuming that she was abducted
.
Okay, so, and this is this isgoing to be before eight o'clock
(22:57):
in the morning and I thinkthat's important for us to think
about.
Think about this too.
So the car is then dropped offat Huntington on the green.
Now the car is found because awoman who has been watching the
information Jennifer Kessie'scar is now out in in the public
looking for her vehicle.
Um, they find it and a womancalls and says I pretty sure
(23:21):
that her car has been parkedhere.
That's just another apartment,another apartment complex about
a mile, not a very niceparticular area.
Even though it was only a mile,mile and a half, it's described
just a little bit more rough.
It's an apartment complex.
You can just go right in park acar.
Well, because of this-.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
So there's a rough area that's close to where she
lives.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, there is.
There's also, I do believe, busstations not very far from
where she was also living, whereshe was living.
So Huntington on the Green isthe name of this apartment
complex.
So the call comes in.
Because of that call, theystart pulling camera around
(24:03):
where the car's found and whatdo they find?
The eerie, creepy, lucky videoof the perpetrator driving
Jennifer's car, parking it,staying in the car for about 30
seconds.
So not only that, chris, thisperson pulls back out and then
(24:25):
pulls back in to make it looklike the car should be parked
there.
So they were very like.
They didn't really look likethey were in too much of a hurry
, which I found kind ofinteresting with this.
But they pull out, pull back in, perpetrator, sits in the car
for about 30 seconds and thenthey are seen on video walking
(24:51):
away from the car and out ofsight.
So the unfortunate thing aboutthis video and again, everyone
you can go watch it.
Jennifer Kessie video.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
It's blurry.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Well, it's not only that, it's blurry.
Well, here's a few things aboutthis video.
One I think the height can bevery misinterpreted by looking
at this video.
It's like a Bigfoot video, itis.
And then the second thing isthat every two to three seconds
it caught right, there was likea screen capture, and every time
, every those two, three seconds, there is a bar blocking the
(25:22):
face From the fence yes.
Yes, of this person.
A few things that the familypointed out disproportionate
body type.
So Jennifer Kessie's motheractually thinks this looks like
a teenager or a very youngperson because of the length of
the arms and just the way thebody is a little lanky.
(25:43):
And just the way the body is alittle lanky.
There were some people whobelieved that the hair is in a
bun.
So there was questions of couldthis be a woman who dropped
this car off?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Could she have been carjacked too, if she did leave?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Well, chris, an eyewitness sees Jennifer Kessy's
vehicle cutting in and out asit leaves the condo, as if two
people are fighting over thesteering wheel.
That is an eyewitness.
They didn't see two people inthe car.
(26:28):
But when the eyewitness sayswhat they saw, that was.
It looks like two, two peoplefighting over steering wheel
right going right, going left,going right going left.
And it was.
She used the word, they usedthe word erratic coming out of
the condo.
So I believe, chris, becausethey ended up also do like, from
where her car's found to herparking spot, the trail went
(26:50):
directly back to her parkingspot.
So I believe whatever happenedto her happened in that parking
lot.
You know, the strange thing,chris, is that nobody heard her
scream.
I mean you have a first floorand her car, I mean somebody had
to have taken the car.
(27:11):
Like I can't get past the carIf you attack someone in their
apartment or if you why, are youtaking the car?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
You know what I mean.
That's why I think a lot ofsigns point to that too.
I mean it, just that's not thebest area around.
A lot of carjackings happen inFlorida, you know.
I mean or you know, I knowOrlando's, of course, known for
the wonderful world of Disney,but you know it's like any big
city.
They've got their level ofcrime and the fact, yeah, why
would you take the car In?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
fact, yeah, why would you take the car?
Why would you take the car?
I mean, unless and then, notonly, that you only take it a
mile to a mile and a half awayfrom where I believe this
occurred.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
But they could have taken it and driven it around, I
know, and then dumped it backthere.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I mean just because it was found that close, it
could have been somebody in that.
Well, chris, we know the carwas dropped off at noon, because
, who knows?
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
If this happened and then all of a sudden I mean what
?
How long before news was on the, the story was on the news.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Not long.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
So I mean, I mean, let's just say, somebody Not
long Carjacked the car, stole itsaw that it was on the news,
figured oh this thing's hot,this thing's hot, and then went
and dumped it at night.
Right, dumped it I mean that'swhen the video is and so took it
out.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
No, it's not at night , it's noon, the car is so noon
the video though.
The video, I guess, is just sograiny.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
It's just grainy.
Yeah, no, it's.
But I mean we know the carwould just.
Maybe they had it and were joyriding around and riding around
and realized it was too hot andthat we need to get out of this
thing and dump it.
It's surprising the car wouldbe that clean, though, too.
They really didn't recover muchevidence from it.
(29:01):
We have people removing SIMcards and scrubbing a car, you
know, I mean, that sounds morelike somebody that's done this
before you know.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, and you know what else.
Again, she would have had bothphones on her.
And this is the piece where,again, if it's just sitting in
her apartment, I don't know,maybe you do that, but if you,
if she has them both on her,like that's how you're going to
get the, that's how you're goingto get the brother's friend's
(29:33):
phone, because they're in thecar or on her, and I just don't
believe they would have just gother.
Her apartment was not ransacked.
Robbery, they don't believe,was the motive.
There was a DVD player or likesome sort of CD player found in
her backseat.
They don't there.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
You know, they didn't think this was like somebody
trying to necessarily rob herand it was clean inside, right,
even they um, you know,carjacking situation, who knows,
it just could have gotten outof hand and maybe it got roughed
up and then I know you know umoh, she would have fought back
(30:12):
so I mean ultimately, uh, she,you know, didn't make it through
, but I mean that's I don't know.
You just, usually you findstuff in cars, things you know,
fragments, something left inthere, somebody's jumping the
car.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I don't know if this is a true fact, but I did read
that there was a boot printfound near the pedal of the
driver's side.
There was also Chris, and thisis something else I find very
interesting.
Eventually, once they look atthe car, it looks like on the
(30:50):
hood right that there might havebeen a struggle, like maybe
somebody was thrown on the hoodor maybe slammed or an elbow.
I mean, it looks like there mayhave been some sort of scuffle
on the hood of that car.
Again, though, you don't hear,nobody hears her, like she's not
(31:12):
screaming, like this is thehard part for me.
It's like, was she tased?
Did they approach her and putsomething over her mouth?
But then again, that seems morelikely.
And is it two people fightingover a steering wheel?
(31:34):
Or is it a young person thatdoesn't really know how to drive
?
I've thought about that too.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, because I mean almost like a carjacking joyride
situation.
I mean it could.
I don't know, it's tough.
The use of the day.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
All right.
So this is going on unsolvedfor 20 years, chris.
I think 10 or 11 years aftershe disappeared, her parents had
her legally declared deceased.
There were, I would say therewas a person of interest at one
point.
So there was someone by thename of Chino If you go and read
(32:13):
about this case, you'll you'llread about him.
In fact, I think like 48 hoursor something showed up at his
door and like interviewed him,but he was very high on the
person of interest list.
He actually used the words Iwas in Jennifer's, I was helping
Jennifer with something, sothis guy knew most of all the
women that were in this condocomplex.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Okay, he did maintenance work.
He works for the apartment.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Right.
But a housekeeper who hadmaintained some of the condos
went to police and said thatlooks like Chino in the video.
Went to police and said thatlooks like Chino in the video.
So that was the first time thatsomebody had really given the
name.
But then a lot of the womencame out and said like he's
always been nice to us, likehe's never really, and he ended
(32:58):
up.
He ended up being questioned bypolice.
He, you know, he basically told48 hours like I did my part.
I had nothing to do withJennifer.
I liked Jennifer, but he usedthe word passed away.
But I was in her apartment aweek before she passed away.
So that was always somethingthat that just kind of sat and
(33:18):
with his words, you know it didit.
Did he meet?
Did he know she was dead?
Because at that time we didn'tknow she was dead, right, we
weren't thinking she's dead Idon't know exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
It was years later correct.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It was probably.
It was years later, but not.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I think that's just a slip of the tongue, potentially
.
I mean not even a slip of thetongue, Obviously, this much
time has passed and she hasn'tbeen found.
I'm just assuming.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
No, but he this was a little earlier on, so it was
just a little bit strange.
People just thought his wordingwas a little strange at how he
referenced her.
But according to other women hewas a nice person.
But then, according to otherpeople he wasn't so nice and he
was, you know, possibly abusiveto women, and so you know, you
(34:10):
have.
It reminds me a lot of like theAmy Bradley guy who worked on
the cruise ship kind of thing.
You know, he's alwaysmaintained his innocence.
He says he has nothing to dowith it.
But but we do know that policedid collect either some
fingerprints or some DNA.
Police did collect either somefingerprints or some DNA.
They've had some of this,probably from the vehicle.
(34:31):
You know, I don't know how much, but I do know that in May of
this year the Florida Departmentof Law Enforcement basically
says, like this case is not cold, we are, you know, yes, the
Kessies we gave.
By the way, they gave therecords to the Kessies.
Again, they hired a PI.
(34:56):
Pi has been working this.
But law enforcement just cameout a few months ago and said
that they are, they have severalpersons of interest is what
their words are and that theyare now testing DNA and items
that may have contributed towhat happened to Jennifer, and
this is great news, I mean so dothey have?
Are they doing this?
(35:17):
Maybe genetic genealogy?
Maybe it's not enough DNA tofind out exactly who it is, but
maybe it's enough to actuallystart testing it and see if
there's any sort of genealogybehind it.
But I mean, this is great news,you know.
I mean, maybe we're going tohave, you know, some information
about this case.
But I think the hardest part is, you know, are we even dealing
(35:41):
with more than one person?
And I think this all goes backto you know, how long can
someone keep this a secret?
If this was a young person,they're more likely to tell
someone that If this is an olderperson, they may not.
They may be able to take thisto their grave, but typically
(36:01):
younger people have a little bit, you know, they run their
mouths a little bit more.
So was this just someone?
And Chris again think about thetime of this, this, if indeed
this happens, while after sheleaves her apartment, by the way
, her mother has said she boughtbrand new 3-inch alligator
(36:24):
heels and they were not in theapartment, so she believes that
her daughter was dressed andleft for work, and that's why
those shoes were not found.
So I tend to believe the samething.
I don't think she leaves theapartment that night.
I think she stays there.
(36:45):
I think she knows she's takingthe phone the next day to the
UPS which is in her building.
I think she gets up, sheshowers, she gets herself ready
for work, towels are damp, waterstill in the shower and she is
caught off guard.
I don't know if she's caught offguard coming out of her
apartment and then brought toher vehicle.
(37:07):
Do not scream, maybe with aweapon, but I guarantee they
would have had to have a weaponin the way that I see this going
down.
I don't think she would havemade it from her apartment to
the car and not tried to screamor somehow get away if they did
not have a weapon.
Or did they wait till she gotto the car, approach her there,
(37:29):
because, remember, the dog wentto the scent, to the parking
space?
Now did they then abduct her,throw her in the vehicle, which
is why nobody heard her scream?
But then how do you explain?
You know the hood of the car,you know?
Did that happen while thisperson was joyriding?
All we know they could havedone this and abducted her at
(37:51):
seven o'clock in the morning anddropped the car off at noon and
only a mile and a half from herhouse.
So to me Chris this is someonevery familiar with the area they
either have to get the car atthe apartment and walk back to
the condo.
Okay, if we're going to talkabout workers, if any of them
are involved, they've got tostay close because they've got
to go back on foot.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
That just doesn't make would not drive along with
the carjacking.
I know you steal it and thendrive it down the road and
double it off a mile.
That's going to take you all ofa minute.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I know, I don't know, but we know the car got parked
at 12.
So we know the car got parkedat 12.
So we know that they at leastand Chris, I mean we kind of.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
And when was the time ?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
We can kind of guess what was happening between the
hours of probably 8 and 12.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
What was the time stamp on the video?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I don't remember the exact time stamp on the video,
but they know it's noon.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
What day was it?
Speaker 1 (38:42):
It was the 24th, which I think is a Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
How many days, though , after?
I'm trying to.
I don't remember exactly, Ican't remember.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I mean, um, I don't remember exactly, but I know the
tip came in pretty, you know,just a few days, I think, after
she went missing.
Well, that's how they found thevideo, right?
So then the the video, go watchit.
I mean I, it's the luckiest, Idon't know, it's just so lucky
(39:15):
that every time the video, youknow, turned off and then turned
back on, it was blocking theirface, and so, you know, was this
person?
I mean to me, chris?
Again, it's like, okay, ifshe's in the car and they've
taken her, they had to she'snever been found, so she's
somewhere.
And that is probably what washappening, you know, in my, in
(39:41):
my opinion, from the time shewas taken until that car was
dropped off.
She was taken until that carwas dropped off, but they didn't
find any, not that I know, ofany sort of blood or you know
nothing was thrown around in thecar.
So again, it's like, did theytake the time to then clean it?
(40:05):
You know, did they take thetime to clean it and then go
drop it off?
A mile and a mile and a halfaway?
I just can't get over how closeit was to the condo To me.
That is someone that is veryfamiliar with the area, that has
to get back somewhere on footbecause the person walks off.
So were they then being pickedup by someone else?
(40:26):
Or did they live this close andlive in the vicinity and they
had to walk home and that's whythey left it there is, because
they had to get back at a shortdistance?
I mean, I don't know what otherreason you leave the car so
close to the condo.
I mean, that's really just beenlike the bad, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I mean, it could be the.
You know, we see world'sdumbest criminals all the time.
So who knows, Somebody tweakedout, not even realizing.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah, and then well, and then the outfits, right.
So if you look at the video,that's why I think that's where
the you know the maintenanceworkers, you know workers idea
came in, I mean, but Chris, it'son the property of the condo,
right?
So they assume whateverhappened to her happened there,
especially with that eyewitnessseeing that car, I can't get
(41:19):
over that.
So to me they're exiting theparking lot.
Something has now happened inthe parking lot.
Something has now happened inthe parking lot.
But again you have what weassume to be people awake, and
you know, I just don't know howyou don't scream unless you have
a gun or a knife and nobodyhears her and she would have
(41:44):
fought back.
And so was there an element ofsurprise to this?
You know, I just don't know.
And are we even dealing withjust one person?
We only see one person in thevideo, but are more people
involved in this?
And they said multiple personsof interest?
I believe that is what came outin May.
And, gosh, I hope that maybethey have come and tracked down
(42:06):
some of the information they'vebeen looking for all these years
, whether locally, you know, orjust you know just, or from
maintenance workers.
But it's the outfit.
The painter suit is whatsomeone said it looked like in
the video A chef's hat or a net.
Somebody even said, maybe abicycle helmet.
Look like maybe they're wearinga bicycle helmet.
It's just very hard because thevideo is just so grainy.
(42:31):
But one other person of interestI want to mention before we get
off the call.
Chris, is it actually surfacedthat Jennifer Kessie's manager
at the time actually some woulddescribe it as mildly obsessed
with her that he hadcontinuously tried to ask her
(42:54):
out and I do believe he wasmarried.
So he actually either I can'tremember if he showed up for
work like after 12 or if he justmissed the entire day, but
Chris, he was not there themorning that she disappeared and
(43:15):
a coworker called the policeand told them exactly how they
felt about this guy and thepossibility that he could be
involved.
Now, actually, this wassomething I recently heard about
.
I actually didn't know aboutthis until I just started taking
(43:35):
this rabbit hole dive into thiscase.
But this person I'm sure wasquestioned.
But yeah, I mean, then you havesomeone who knows her, who has
spoken to her, who has contactwith her, um, but then again,
are we, are we assuming thisperson would have just showed up
(43:58):
in her apartment complex anddone this.
Seems a little bit odd, butagain, co-worker thought it was
very strange that they they werenot at work that same morning.
So just very interesting.
All right, friends, until nexttime, stay safe, have fun and
cheers to next time.
Cheers, thank you.
(44:29):
Bye.
Welcome all of you wine and true crime lovers.
I'm Brandi.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
And I'm Chris.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
And this is Texas Wine and True Crime.
Thank you for being here,friends, for this week's episode
the Disappearance of JenniferKessie.
Hey, chris.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Hey Brandi.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Nice to be back in the studio it is nice to be back
in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I would agree with that.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I am really glad we're covering this case.
Well, we covered this case in alive show because we showed the
video, the grainy video thatwe're going to talk about, but
we are traveling out of Texasand to Orlando, florida, for
this case, so we are going backto 2006.
(00:57):
So January 23rd 24th is thetimeline we're talking about
when Jennifer Kessie disappeared.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Coming up on the 20-year anniversary.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, 20-year anniversary.
A few things to note here.
She was living in Orlandoworking as a 24-year-old,
freshly out of college financemajor, and was working for a
timeshare company.
Yes, great place to work forthose in Orlando.
Yeah, and making good money too, making great money.
(01:30):
She had just bought her owncondo.
So her parents were so proudshe bought it with her own money
, bought her first condo, andshe bought this at the Mosaic at
Millennia, so that is the nameof the condo complex she was
living at the gated communitywith security which is why she
chose it.
Yes, family has come forward andsaid this is that is like one
(01:52):
of the particular reasons thatshe chose um that location.
But this complex was stillunder construction now, not
construction like roadconstruction outside, where
there's a lot of workers, youknow, laying down cement.
These are condos that are beingbuilt, that are being renovated
(02:15):
and on the inside right.
So we know now that a lot ofthese construction workers who
were a lot of them wereundocumented, a lot of them.
We know that the company, theactual company who employed
these workers, actually did notkeep great records of who they
(02:38):
actually were, and now we knowthat they were living.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
They were probably just working for a contractor.
I would imagine, yes, so thecontractor actually probably
didn't keep, probably justworking for a contractor.
I would imagine yes, so thecontractor actually probably
didn't keep great records.
That's right, I would think.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
But, chris, they were living in this condo complex
and I, even with some of myresearch and some of the things
that I have talked to peoplevery closely in this case, they
think there was actually up tofive to ten workers living in
one condo.
Now was it the only one.
(03:12):
We don't really know.
Did they have names of thesepeople actually living in this
condo?
No, so bad records, lack ofnames.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, typically I was going to say if you run a condo
or I mean, these are actuallypurchased, but if you're living
there you'd have to have abackground check of some sort to
stay there on the premises.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
You know, I don't know this for sure, but I almost
wonder if the contractor andthe owner of the condo happen to
have some sort of relationship.
Owner of the condo happened tohave some sort of relationship.
It just seems like you have thecondo complex not keeping good
records and you have thiscontractor not keeping good
records.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Oh, I imagine that was part of the deal.
You know, probably get a littlebit of break.
Let some of my workers stayhere.
You get a price break on the.
You know the work.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
I mean maybe.
So I'm sure the Kessie familyknows the answer to that.
But what we do know is thatnames were not kept.
There were multiple peopleliving in the condo that didn't
have a lease right.
They didn't have a lease there.
There was no paperwork on them.
So that is something weactually know now that we're
talking about this almost 20years later.
(04:22):
So at the time, because therewere other condos being built in
the complex, they weren't allleased out.
So I would say there wasprobably a bare minimum amount
of people living there at thetime that Jennifer was living
there.
We also know now that severalwomen who were living in this
(04:44):
condo complex had the samecomplaints as Jennifer Kessy did
Now.
Jennifer had told her parentsthat these workers kind of made
her feel uncomfortable.
Sometimes there was a littlecat calling, sometimes there was
just a little bit of staringand not saying anything, which
as a woman, is the worst,because you don't know what
they're thinking.
They're just looking at you.
But we now know that otherwomen were making complaints
(05:09):
about this at the time.
This is actually beforeJennifer disappeared, so before
and after.
So we know that this was aproblem.
Whether this has to do with herdisappearance?
We don't know.
I say the video looks likepeople have said a painter suit,
(05:29):
a working suit, some sort ofchef outfit.
I mean it's hard to tell byvideo.
They have come out and saidthat the outfits are you okay.
Yeah, keep going, all right.
Okay, that's how we roll,that's how we roll, all right.
(05:50):
So she's telling her parents alittle bit about this, but again
, well, it's she was very safe,conscious, and so I don't think
her parents worry too much andit's a gated community and
there's a lot of trust there,right, so I think she had a lot
of trust in this place.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
It's not to imply, because they were undocumented
workers, that they'reimmediately responsible.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Oh, my God no.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
It's just the fact that there are people that were
living there that you basicallyhave a difficult time if they're
considered as a suspectreaching out to them.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Yeah.
I mean this absolutely 100%hindered the investigation.
They couldn't find them thenext day, I mean, some of them
didn't come back, right so it, Imean her brother will end up
next day after the police camecorrect so this is just finding.
(06:37):
Yeah, this is after I mean we'rejumping a little too far ahead,
but yeah, so let's kind of talkabout the weekend that goes
into the days that shedisappeared.
Because even now, by the way,the Kessie sued Florida for the
records.
They wanted their owninvestigation.
(06:58):
They hired a PI and decidedthat they were going to
investigate their daughter'scase because they felt like
there was a lot that the policewere not doing, especially in
the beginning.
I mean, you have the parentsthat get the phone call that
their daughter does not show upfor work.
So she gets back in town, chris, that weekend from a tropical
(07:18):
vacation with her boyfriend Herboyfriend's, living about three
hours away from Orlando.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I think they were in St Croix correct.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yeah, they had gone on vacation.
They come back, she goes towork on Monday.
So she shows up, goes to workon Monday, and then we know she
comes home from work becausethere was a phone call that she
has with her boyfriend thatnight.
And then you have her brother,who also spoke to her that night
(07:49):
, because her brother's Logan,his friend, had, um, they
basically they had been atJennifer's condo and the friend
left his phone there.
Okay, so her brother asked her,you know, can you ship it to
him?
And she agreed basically toovernight it to him.
(08:09):
So this is where a lot of thetimeline is either not clear.
When it comes to now.
Again, I don't have the policerecords, but here's what we know
.
We know that the last phonecall to her, the last person
that heard from her, it wasaround 10 o'clock, like right
before 10 o'clock, and thenagain at 8 am when she doesn't
(08:30):
show up for work.
So we've got a pretty big gaptimeline here 10 pm to 8 am,
going into the 24th.
So, by the way, can I just giveprops to the company that she
worked for, because when thatgirl did not show up for work,
they thought this is veryunusual.
(08:51):
This is not like her, and theyimmediately call her parents
wondering where she is.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, I was puzzled by that.
I just I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Kind of going I don't want to say it doesn't sound
like going above and beyond, butI'm assuming that she had that
as a point like emergencycontact.
And so that's kind of unusualfor even your coworkers to do
something like that like callyour parents.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Well, I think that people just don't think.
I mean, she's 24, freshly outof college, right, Just not long
and so I think there's just asense of like looking out for
her.
They know she's living herewithout family, right, she's got
her own place and it was justunusual.
But I just want to say this iswhy I, you know, and Chris, I
(09:39):
was even talking to- somebodyher boyfriend, you know tried
reach out too.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
He didn't even really and I'm not trying to slam on
him, but I mean, even he waskind of trying to let it
marinate.
I guess you might say See whathappens, maybe she's at work,
maybe she's not answering justbecause she's busy, versus the
response from the company.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Yeah, and I think also it's like do you really
think something's going tohappen to somebody as an adult?
I think there's just this.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
These people did.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Well, there's just this sense of like calm about us
, I think, as adults, and likeour ability to think how safe,
how safety conscious we reallyare.
But are we?
I mean because this girl youknow from, according to her
parents and friends, was likeone of the safest people ever,
right?
I mean, she constantly talkedabout being safe, she would have
(10:30):
conversations with her motherabout this kind of thing, so for
her to somehow be caught offguard and be abducted because
this is what we believe happenedto her, what was the scenario?
You know, that's the puzzlingpiece of this is like we really
just don't know what happenedbetween 10 and eight o'clock.
(10:52):
But here's a few things we doknow.
When the parents get the phonecall the brother, the parents,
they're coming down differentdirections, have their own cars,
but they both show up at theapartment.
You know, within like I wouldsay like mid-afternoon time
frame, the apartment managerlets them in the apartment.
Okay, her brother will actuallyuse the words, I think,
(11:14):
uncooperative, when he wasactually trying to ask the
workers that he did see there ifthey had seen his sister.
So they're really just tryingto get information, but the
apartment manager lets them in.
So here's a few things that wesee in the apartment.
She has a wet towel that's inthe bathroom, there's water in
(11:37):
the shower, she had clothes thathad either been tried on or
laid out on her bed and itlooked like she was getting
ready for work.
So we talk, we go back to thistimeframe of 10 to eight.
Um, her mother has come forwardand said that she did not
shower at night.
(11:57):
She would have always showeredin the morning.
And would there still be like apretty, would there be still a
significant amount of water inthe shower if it would have done
the night before?
So we're going to talk aboutthe cell phones being powered
off, because we do know that isa fact.
They were powered off, and whenI say phones, I mean her phone
(12:20):
and I mean her brother's,friend's phone.
They're both turned off.
Both SIM cards are removed atsome point.
So at first, chris, they saidthis happened at like 1045.
But I think, hopefully maybethe Keseys have a better idea
now that they've looked in thesepolice reports.
I don't know if they do or not,but I do know that they came
(12:41):
out and the family came out andsaid this we don't actually know
that this was taken out at 1045.
We actually don't know whenthey were powered off of the SIM
cards taken out.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
That's weird.
If you're leaving the phonethere, what would be the purpose
of removing the SIM card?
Well, I don't know, Remembershe's bringing this phone to
work Now hold on.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
She's taking this phone to work to overnight it.
She has a UPS store inside.
Go ahead and overnight it.
And her mother said ridiculous,my daughter would not have left
(13:29):
, she would have gone to bed.
She has a UPS store in herbuilding.
She would have done the smartthing, which is wait till she's
at work the next day and thenship it from there.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, that doesn't explain the SIM card removal.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
No, it doesn't.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
I could think that somebody would do that as if she
was having some correspondencewith someone.
And you know, with those olderphones, if I remember correctly
when you pulled the SIM card out, that's for all your contacts
or any call history, even yourmessages, because those six
you're probably still doing likealphanumeric messages on your
(14:02):
you know click phone or whateverflip phone.
So yeah, I don't know, maybethat would be the reason why,
because if it was somebody,let's just you know, suspecting
that it would be somebodyexternal, not somebody from the
apartment, because that would bethe only reason I could think
of, Because typically you knowyour SIM card's kind of your
tracker, you know where you'd begoing around and you're not
(14:23):
taking the phone and staying inthe apartment.
Why go that extra step?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Well, the one thing I think is she was going to have
that phone on her, her brother'sfriend's phone.
Because that's To go to workbecause she's shipping it.
So that is why I believe thatdid not happen the night before.
(14:53):
I believe the reason that bothof those phones were found
turned off, sim cards removed,was because she had them both on
her, and to me I don't see thathappening at the night.
I see her going to sleep.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I don't see her leaving the apartment, Having
them on her what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Like she had her brother's, friend's phone to
take to work, to ship overnight.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, I'm just saying even too, with these older
phones.
I mean, and think about theyear.
How many people have phones tohave that knowledge, to know
that this thing has a card in itthat you can remove, to remove
the data from the phone?
Speaker 1 (15:27):
But what's the other reason to remove a SIM card?
Do people remove SIM cards?
Who are going to steal phones?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
No.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
They weren't stolen, they were there.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
The phones.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
They tracked the phone.
That's how they knew it hadbeen turned off.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I thought the SIM they didn't find the phones.
But the SIM card you're sayingI got you.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
Do you see what I'm saying?
It was removed.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
You're saying they removed them so they couldn't be
tracked.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Right.
So I'm saying the only Ifyou're a stranger and you find
two phones, okay, where are youlooking for two phones, unless
they're on jennifer?
Speaker 2 (16:12):
well, and also, I think too, then, thinking about
just still, with that wholeturning, disabling the phone, um
suggests that you know, know, Imean, I would think even back
then you'd probably have to haveyou know, that a level of
intelligence to know that that'sgoing to keep them from
(16:33):
tracking that you so I mean, Iwould think the average lay
person who owned a phoneprobably didn't realize that
walking around with a phone Iwould.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
I would say I I hope her parents have more
information about the phones andaround what time this might
have happened.
But I think what I wanted tomake sure we clear up is that
police had always said that theywere powered down, SIM card
(17:01):
removed around 1045 PM.
But now we know, based on justinterviews with family, that
they could actually not pinpointa timeline of when, of when,
this actually happened.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So yeah, and I would just have to, for me personally
to, just if the phone's turnedoff, how do you know the SIM
card has been removed?
You know, I think those twokind of go on coordinates.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I don't know.
Maybe it doesn't ping orsomething.
Maybe there's some data thatisn't collected when SIM cards
are removed.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
That's the only thing I can think of, and me
personally.
Didn't know that a phone wouldtransmit any data if it was even
just turned off I mean ouriPhones if it's turned off.
Are you able to track the?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Oh, I think you can right.
I think, you can ping a tower.
See, I don't know, technology'scome so far in these 20 years.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It's lost in the woods and their phone dies.
They can't just track them atthe point where they're?
Speaker 1 (17:56):
at if there's no battery.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
So I don't know.
I guess that's Sorry to stick.
On the SIM card thing, I justthink that's an odd note of how
they determined that, um,because I think that's just a
whole new level of somebodygoing that extra mile to make
sure not found, which would makeme lead to believe it's just
not the average bystander, oryou know that's somebody that
maybe knew her constructionworker.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
I guess that's right so that kind of if, if indeed
this person was communicatingwith her and you, did this
person know she had two phoneson her?
I don't know, did she know thathe that that the friend had
left the phone at her apartment?
I mean, maybe you know, I don'tknow, but you're right,
(18:39):
typically somebody who was atotal stranger isn't going to
care about that because they'vehad no correspondence with the
person.
All right.
So when the parents get toOrlando they're looking for
their daughter, they call thepolice.
Police, I would say she's anadult, she'll probably come back
.
(19:00):
They try to tell them this isvery much unlike our daughter.
They were handing out flyers,they were really pressing for
information and police startquestioning people.
Chris, it's always been saidthat law enforcement I wouldn't
say made the excuse, but to somepeople it sounded like an
(19:23):
excuse that because of thelanguage barriers that they were
dealing with with some of theworkers it was hard to interview
very early on.
People always said like reallywe can't have, we don't have
anybody bilingual in the Floridalaw enforcement, you know so.
But so I would say this is kindof an issue and again they
(19:47):
scattered like flies right.
So it was hard to find some ofthese people even 24 to 48 hours
after she went missing.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And I think a big reason for that is if they were
undocumented and police arecoming, they're not going to
stick around.
They aren't so they aren'tcompletely unrelated to any
disappearance.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
That's right, exactly , but I think it's.
You know.
You now have her telling herparents how uncomfortable she's
feeling.
You know that they are livingin the apartments directly
across from, or the condosdirectly across from, jennifer's
.
The belief is that she had tohave been taken by surprise
(20:24):
because she was such high alertabout her comings and goings
that it would have been almostan element of surprise to her.
So, you know, did she come outof her apartment and then
somebody came up from behind her.
You know, as she's leaving, Iwant to talk to my moms out
there.
I'm sure your days are nonstoplike mine, juggling work, family
(20:47):
and everything in between.
Since adding Magic Mind to mymornings, it's like I've become
Super Mom.
It was a noticeable shift.
It gave me nice, steady energywithout the crash, helps me stay
calm during the chaos andsharpens my focus so I can be
fully present Whether I'm on awork teams call or helping with
(21:08):
homework.
It's become a small butpowerful way to support both my
productivity and my peace ofmind.
Peace of mind, moms.
So, moms, we all know how muchmental clarity and focus are
important Supports better focuswhile multitasking how many of
us do that?
Reduce caffeine dependency Okay, moms.
I know how much coffee we drinkin the morning, but it just
(21:30):
goes right next to my coffee.
Sip it quick, little green shotand I'm calm under pressure.
It's those adaptogens that arehelping me regulate stress,
promoting calm during thosechaotic moments.
More presence and patience.
We could all use a dance'smindfulness so you can be more
present with your kids, spouse,or even during solo time.
(21:53):
So, all right, moms, head overto magicmindcom and use the code
TexasWine20 for 20% off.
That's magicmindcom codeTexasWine20.
Stay curious, stay focused,reclaim your brain with Magic
Mind.
All right, chris.
So here we go into theinvestigation.
Now she has disappeared.
(22:15):
We need to find her.
So they start pulling videofootage.
You know cameras trying to seewhat's working, what isn't
working, and they actually finda video that picks up what.
Now here's what we know the carJennifer's car is found in an
(22:35):
apartment complex about a milemile and a mile and a half away
from her condo.
Okay, so, very close, and Iwant to be I think this is an
important piece of thisinvestigation.
It's very close to where we arepresuming that she was abducted
.
Okay, so, and this is this isgoing to be before eight o'clock
(22:57):
in the morning and I thinkthat's important for us to think
about.
Think about this too.
So the car is then dropped offat Huntington on the green.
Now the car is found because awoman who has been watching the
information Jennifer Kessie'scar is now out in in the public
looking for her vehicle.
Um, they find it and a womancalls and says I pretty sure
(23:21):
that her car has been parkedhere.
That's just another apartment,another apartment complex about
a mile, not a very niceparticular area.
Even though it was only a mile,mile and a half, it's described
just a little bit more rough.
It's an apartment complex.
You can just go right in park acar.
Well, because of this-.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
So there's a rough area that's close to where she
lives.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Yeah, there is.
There's also, I do believe, busstations not very far from
where she was also living, whereshe was living.
So Huntington on the Green isthe name of this apartment
complex.
So the call comes in.
Because of that call, theystart pulling camera around
(24:03):
where the car's found and whatdo they find?
The eerie, creepy, lucky videoof the perpetrator driving
Jennifer's car, parking it,staying in the car for about 30
seconds.
So not only that, chris, thisperson pulls back out and then
(24:25):
pulls back in to make it looklike the car should be parked
there.
So they were very like.
They didn't really look likethey were in too much of a hurry
, which I found kind ofinteresting with this.
But they pull out, pull back in, perpetrator, sits in the car
for about 30 seconds and thenthey are seen on video walking
(24:51):
away from the car and out ofsight.
So the unfortunate thing aboutthis video and again, everyone
you can go watch it.
Jennifer Kessie video.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
It's blurry.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Well, it's not only that, it's blurry.
Well, here's a few things aboutthis video.
One I think the height can bevery misinterpreted by looking
at this video.
It's like a Bigfoot video, itis.
And then the second thing isthat every two to three seconds
it caught right, there was likea screen capture, and every time
, every those two, three seconds, there is a bar blocking the
(25:22):
face From the fence yes.
Yes, of this person.
A few things that the familypointed out disproportionate
body type.
So Jennifer Kessie's motheractually thinks this looks like
a teenager or a very youngperson because of the length of
the arms and just the way thebody is a little lanky.
(25:43):
And just the way the body is alittle lanky.
There were some people whobelieved that the hair is in a
bun.
So there was questions of couldthis be a woman who dropped
this car off?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Could she have been carjacked too, if she did leave?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Well, chris, an eyewitness sees Jennifer Kessy's
vehicle cutting in and out asit leaves the condo, as if two
people are fighting over thesteering wheel.
That is an eyewitness.
They didn't see two people inthe car.
(26:28):
But when the eyewitness sayswhat they saw, that was.
It looks like two, two peoplefighting over steering wheel
right going right, going left,going right going left.
And it was.
She used the word, they usedthe word erratic coming out of
the condo.
So I believe, chris, becausethey ended up also do like, from
where her car's found to herparking spot, the trail went
(26:50):
directly back to her parkingspot.
So I believe whatever happenedto her happened in that parking
lot.
You know, the strange thing,chris, is that nobody heard her
scream.
I mean you have a first floorand her car, I mean somebody had
to have taken the car.
(27:11):
Like I can't get past the carIf you attack someone in their
apartment or if you why, are youtaking the car?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
You know what I mean.
That's why I think a lot ofsigns point to that too.
I mean it, just that's not thebest area around.
A lot of carjackings happen inFlorida, you know.
I mean or you know, I knowOrlando's, of course, known for
the wonderful world of Disney,but you know it's like any big
city.
They've got their level ofcrime and the fact, yeah, why
would you take the car In?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
fact, yeah, why would you take the car?
Why would you take the car?
I mean, unless and then, notonly, that you only take it a
mile to a mile and a half awayfrom where I believe this
occurred.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
But they could have taken it and driven it around, I
know, and then dumped it backthere.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
I mean just because it was found that close, it
could have been somebody in that.
Well, chris, we know the carwas dropped off at noon, because
, who knows?
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
If this happened and then all of a sudden I mean what
?
How long before news was on the, the story was on the news.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Not long.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
So I mean, I mean, let's just say, somebody Not
long Carjacked the car, stole itsaw that it was on the news,
figured oh this thing's hot,this thing's hot, and then went
and dumped it at night.
Right, dumped it I mean that'swhen the video is and so took it
out.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
No, it's not at night , it's noon, the car is so noon
the video though.
The video, I guess, is just sograiny.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
It's just grainy.
Yeah, no, it's.
But I mean we know the carwould just.
Maybe they had it and were joyriding around and riding around
and realized it was too hot andthat we need to get out of this
thing and dump it.
It's surprising the car wouldbe that clean, though, too.
They really didn't recover muchevidence from it.
(29:01):
We have people removing SIMcards and scrubbing a car, you
know, I mean, that sounds morelike somebody that's done this
before you know.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, and you know what else.
Again, she would have had bothphones on her.
And this is the piece where,again, if it's just sitting in
her apartment, I don't know,maybe you do that, but if you,
if she has them both on her,like that's how you're going to
get the, that's how you're goingto get the brother's friend's
(29:33):
phone, because they're in thecar or on her, and I just don't
believe they would have just gother.
Her apartment was not ransacked.
Robbery, they don't believe,was the motive.
There was a DVD player or likesome sort of CD player found in
her backseat.
They don't there.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
You know, they didn't think this was like somebody
trying to necessarily rob herand it was clean inside, right,
even they um, you know,carjacking situation, who knows,
it just could have gotten outof hand and maybe it got roughed
up and then I know you know umoh, she would have fought back
(30:12):
so I mean ultimately, uh, she,you know, didn't make it through
, but I mean that's I don't know.
You just, usually you findstuff in cars, things you know,
fragments, something left inthere, somebody's jumping the
car.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I don't know if this is a true fact, but I did read
that there was a boot printfound near the pedal of the
driver's side.
There was also Chris, and thisis something else I find very
interesting.
Eventually, once they look atthe car, it looks like on the
(30:50):
hood right that there might havebeen a struggle, like maybe
somebody was thrown on the hoodor maybe slammed or an elbow.
I mean, it looks like there mayhave been some sort of scuffle
on the hood of that car.
Again, though, you don't hear,nobody hears her, like she's not
(31:12):
screaming, like this is thehard part for me.
It's like, was she tased?
Did they approach her and putsomething over her mouth?
But then again, that seems morelikely.
And is it two people fightingover a steering wheel?
(31:34):
Or is it a young person thatdoesn't really know how to drive
?
I've thought about that too.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, because I mean almost like a carjacking joyride
situation.
I mean it could.
I don't know, it's tough.
The use of the day.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
All right.
So this is going on unsolvedfor 20 years, chris.
I think 10 or 11 years aftershe disappeared, her parents had
her legally declared deceased.
There were, I would say therewas a person of interest at one
point.
So there was someone by thename of Chino If you go and read
(32:13):
about this case, you'll you'llread about him.
In fact, I think like 48 hoursor something showed up at his
door and like interviewed him,but he was very high on the
person of interest list.
He actually used the words Iwas in Jennifer's, I was helping
Jennifer with something, sothis guy knew most of all the
women that were in this condocomplex.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
Okay, he did maintenance work.
He works for the apartment.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Right.
But a housekeeper who hadmaintained some of the condos
went to police and said thatlooks like Chino in the video.
Went to police and said thatlooks like Chino in the video.
So that was the first time thatsomebody had really given the
name.
But then a lot of the womencame out and said like he's
always been nice to us, likehe's never really, and he ended
(32:58):
up.
He ended up being questioned bypolice.
He, you know, he basically told48 hours like I did my part.
I had nothing to do withJennifer.
I liked Jennifer, but he usedthe word passed away.
But I was in her apartment aweek before she passed away.
So that was always somethingthat that just kind of sat and
(33:18):
with his words, you know it didit.
Did he meet?
Did he know she was dead?
Because at that time we didn'tknow she was dead, right, we
weren't thinking she's dead Idon't know exactly.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
It was years later correct.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
It was probably.
It was years later, but not.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I think that's just a slip of the tongue, potentially
.
I mean not even a slip of thetongue, Obviously, this much
time has passed and she hasn'tbeen found.
I'm just assuming.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
No, but he this was a little earlier on, so it was
just a little bit strange.
People just thought his wordingwas a little strange at how he
referenced her.
But according to other women hewas a nice person.
But then, according to otherpeople he wasn't so nice and he
was, you know, possibly abusiveto women, and so you know, you
(34:10):
have.
It reminds me a lot of like theAmy Bradley guy who worked on
the cruise ship kind of thing.
You know, he's alwaysmaintained his innocence.
He says he has nothing to dowith it.
But but we do know that policedid collect either some
fingerprints or some DNA.
Police did collect either somefingerprints or some DNA.
They've had some of this,probably from the vehicle.
(34:31):
You know, I don't know how much, but I do know that in May of
this year the Florida Departmentof Law Enforcement basically
says, like this case is not cold, we are, you know, yes, the
Kessies we gave.
By the way, they gave therecords to the Kessies.
Again, they hired a PI.
(34:56):
Pi has been working this.
But law enforcement just cameout a few months ago and said
that they are, they have severalpersons of interest is what
their words are and that theyare now testing DNA and items
that may have contributed towhat happened to Jennifer, and
this is great news, I mean so dothey have?
Are they doing this?
(35:17):
Maybe genetic genealogy?
Maybe it's not enough DNA tofind out exactly who it is, but
maybe it's enough to actuallystart testing it and see if
there's any sort of genealogybehind it.
But I mean, this is great news,you know.
I mean, maybe we're going tohave, you know, some information
about this case.
But I think the hardest part is, you know, are we even dealing
(35:41):
with more than one person?
And I think this all goes backto you know, how long can
someone keep this a secret?
If this was a young person,they're more likely to tell
someone that If this is an olderperson, they may not.
They may be able to take thisto their grave, but typically
(36:01):
younger people have a little bit, you know, they run their
mouths a little bit more.
So was this just someone?
And Chris again think about thetime of this, this, if indeed
this happens, while after sheleaves her apartment, by the way
, her mother has said she boughtbrand new 3-inch alligator
(36:24):
heels and they were not in theapartment, so she believes that
her daughter was dressed andleft for work, and that's why
those shoes were not found.
So I tend to believe the samething.
I don't think she leaves theapartment that night.
I think she stays there.
(36:45):
I think she knows she's takingthe phone the next day to the
UPS which is in her building.
I think she gets up, sheshowers, she gets herself ready
for work, towels are damp, waterstill in the shower and she is
caught off guard.
I don't know if she's caught offguard coming out of her
apartment and then brought toher vehicle.
(37:07):
Do not scream, maybe with aweapon, but I guarantee they
would have had to have a weaponin the way that I see this going
down.
I don't think she would havemade it from her apartment to
the car and not tried to screamor somehow get away if they did
not have a weapon.
Or did they wait till she gotto the car, approach her there,
(37:29):
because, remember, the dog wentto the scent, to the parking
space?
Now did they then abduct her,throw her in the vehicle, which
is why nobody heard her scream?
But then how do you explain?
You know the hood of the car,you know?
Did that happen while thisperson was joyriding?
All we know they could havedone this and abducted her at
(37:51):
seven o'clock in the morning anddropped the car off at noon and
only a mile and a half from herhouse.
So to me Chris this is someonevery familiar with the area they
either have to get the car atthe apartment and walk back to
the condo.
Okay, if we're going to talkabout workers, if any of them
are involved, they've got tostay close because they've got
to go back on foot.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
That just doesn't make would not drive along with
the carjacking.
I know you steal it and thendrive it down the road and
double it off a mile.
That's going to take you all ofa minute.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I know, I don't know, but we know the car got parked
at 12.
So we know the car got parkedat 12.
So we know that they at leastand Chris, I mean we kind of.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
And when was the time ?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
We can kind of guess what was happening between the
hours of probably 8 and 12.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
What was the time stamp on the video?
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I don't remember the exact time stamp on the video,
but they know it's noon.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
What day was it?
Speaker 1 (38:42):
It was the 24th, which I think is a Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
How many days, though , after?
I'm trying to.
I don't remember exactly, Ican't remember.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
I mean, um, I don't remember exactly, but I know the
tip came in pretty, you know,just a few days, I think, after
she went missing.
Well, that's how they found thevideo, right?
So then the the video, go watchit.
I mean I, it's the luckiest, Idon't know, it's just so lucky
(39:15):
that every time the video, youknow, turned off and then turned
back on, it was blocking theirface, and so, you know, was this
person?
I mean to me, chris?
Again, it's like, okay, ifshe's in the car and they've
taken her, they had to she'snever been found, so she's
somewhere.
And that is probably what washappening, you know, in my, in
(39:41):
my opinion, from the time shewas taken until that car was
dropped off.
She was taken until that carwas dropped off, but they didn't
find any, not that I know, ofany sort of blood or you know
nothing was thrown around in thecar.
So again, it's like, did theytake the time to then clean it?
(40:05):
You know, did they take thetime to clean it and then go
drop it off?
A mile and a mile and a halfaway?
I just can't get over how closeit was to the condo To me.
That is someone that is veryfamiliar with the area, that has
to get back somewhere on footbecause the person walks off.
So were they then being pickedup by someone else?
(40:26):
Or did they live this close andlive in the vicinity and they
had to walk home and that's whythey left it there is, because
they had to get back at a shortdistance?
I mean, I don't know what otherreason you leave the car so
close to the condo.
I mean, that's really just beenlike the bad, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
I mean, it could be the.
You know, we see world'sdumbest criminals all the time.
So who knows, Somebody tweakedout, not even realizing.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah, and then well, and then the outfits, right.
So if you look at the video,that's why I think that's where
the you know the maintenanceworkers, you know workers idea
came in, I mean, but Chris, it'son the property of the condo,
right?
So they assume whateverhappened to her happened there,
especially with that eyewitnessseeing that car, I can't get
(41:19):
over that.
So to me they're exiting theparking lot.
Something has now happened inthe parking lot.
Something has now happened inthe parking lot.
But again you have what weassume to be people awake, and
you know, I just don't know howyou don't scream unless you have
a gun or a knife and nobodyhears her and she would have
(41:44):
fought back.
And so was there an element ofsurprise to this?
You know, I just don't know.
And are we even dealing withjust one person?
We only see one person in thevideo, but are more people
involved in this?
And they said multiple personsof interest?
I believe that is what came outin May.
And, gosh, I hope that maybethey have come and tracked down
(42:06):
some of the information they'vebeen looking for all these years
, whether locally, you know, orjust you know just, or from
maintenance workers.
But it's the outfit.
The painter suit is whatsomeone said it looked like in
the video A chef's hat or a net.
Somebody even said, maybe abicycle helmet.
Look like maybe they're wearinga bicycle helmet.
It's just very hard because thevideo is just so grainy.
(42:31):
But one other person of interestI want to mention before we get
off the call.
Chris, is it actually surfacedthat Jennifer Kessie's manager
at the time actually some woulddescribe it as mildly obsessed
with her that he hadcontinuously tried to ask her
(42:54):
out and I do believe he wasmarried.
So he actually either I can'tremember if he showed up for
work like after 12 or if he justmissed the entire day, but
Chris, he was not there themorning that she disappeared and
(43:15):
a coworker called the policeand told them exactly how they
felt about this guy and thepossibility that he could be
involved.
Now, actually, this wassomething I recently heard about
.
I actually didn't know aboutthis until I just started taking
(43:35):
this rabbit hole dive into thiscase.
But this person I'm sure wasquestioned.
But yeah, I mean, then you havesomeone who knows her, who has
spoken to her, who has contactwith her, um, but then again,
are we, are we assuming thisperson would have just showed up
(43:58):
in her apartment complex anddone this.
Seems a little bit odd, butagain, co-worker thought it was
very strange that they they werenot at work that same morning.
So just very interesting.
All right, friends, until nexttime, stay safe, have fun and
cheers to next time.
Cheers, thank you.
(44:29):
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.