October 28, 2025 • 32 mins
What does “fake Christianity” look like in today’s world — and how can we guard against it in our own lives? In this episode, host Jon Delger, the Executive Pastor of the Peace Family of Churches, sits down with Jed Coppenger, lead pastor of First Baptist Church Cumming, GA, and author of Fake Christianity: 10 Traps of an Inauthentic Faith (and How to Avoid Them). We dive into how cultural comfort, self-reliance, and spiritual apathy can subtly distort genuine faith, and how believers can rediscover the beauty of a faith that is real, humble, and centered on Christ.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:08):
Welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast where we
answer questions about the Christian faith in plain
language. If you or someone you know has
questions, please submit them toPeace Church dot CC slash
questions. I'm John.
I'm here as your host today, andI'm here with a special
conversation with Jed Coppinger.Excited to talk with him.
(00:31):
He is a lead pastor at First Baptist Church in Cumming, GA.
He has a PhD from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary,
he's an author, and most recently he wrote a book, Fake
Christianity, 10 Traps of an Inauthentic Faith.
So excited to talk with Jed today.
I think there's going to be a great chance to talk, especially
here. It is Halloween time, time of
costumes and counterfeits going to get to have a great
(00:54):
conversation about this thing called fake Christianity.
Jed, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me excited to
be here. So excited for the conversation,
Jed, you mind telling us a little bit more about yourself?
Yeah, I'm married to Melanie for18 years.
We've got a high schooler that'sa senior, a junior, and we got
an eighth grader. So we're in the thick of all of
(01:16):
the fun things. I grew up in a Christian home,
did the double life for most of my upbringing.
Unfortunately became a Christianwhen I was 20 when I got to the
bottom of a broken cistern and found out the emptiness of
success. And ever since then, just been
so glad to to be on theme Jesus and where he calls us.
(01:38):
So excited to be here to talk about this topic.
Yeah, Yeah. Well, I think a lot of us can
relate to that story. Some of us are maybe in the
midst of that double life right now.
I appreciate you sharing that. Being vulnerable about that.
I think that's actually something.
So I'm coming from, you know, the area around Grand Rapids,
MI, West Michigan, which is a historically very religious
area. You're down there in Georgia in
(02:00):
the Bible Belt area. That's very religious, I think.
Jed, do you think it's easier tofall into that trap in those
areas like West Michigan, like the Bible Belt?
If so, why is it more easy to fall into that fake Christianity
in an area like that? You know, I think in a lot of
ways it's easier because it's it's more blessed in a lot of
(02:24):
ways. Like it you're not going to fall
into this in 100% Muslim people group that my brother is on the
other side of the world trying to reach right now on the
mission field, 14 unreached people groups that he's he's
really focused on. And so, yeah, in that sense,
you're not growing up cultural Christian.
(02:46):
You're be a cultural Muslim, youknow, probably in that way.
And and so in some ways it's a great blessing to be able to be
in an environment where there's some advantage to acting kind of
like a Christian. MMM But it it doesn't mean that
eternally it's a good thing. You know, I heard one person say
(03:09):
that morality can keep you out of jail.
It can't get you into heaven. And so in some ways those of us
here in Western culture really, but for sure in areas like
Georgia or Tennessee, where I was a year ago in different
places like that, we need to be more alert to the fact that we
(03:31):
may be self deceived, not less than some of these other places.
And self deception is a major emphasis in the Scripture.
I mean, think about passages like in Hebrews where he talks
about to Christians, he says watch out for the deceitfulness
of sin. James talks about how we can be
hearers of the word and not doers deceiving ourselves.
(03:53):
And he's he's talking about thatChristians can be self deceived
and Jesus says final public message, which is what the the
the book is is written primarilyabout on the Tuesday of Easter
week. His final public message, that
word he uses for hypocrite, which is is typically it just
it's from the theater world means masked actor.
(04:15):
So Halloween we're putting on masks.
We're playing a role, you know, for some people are are doing
those kinds of things. It's a mass actor.
But the thing that's so interesting about that is that
New Testament scholar Craig Blomberg points out that that
word can mean someone who's intentionally deceptive, which
is what we typically think of when we think of a hypocrite,
but also someone who's unintentionally inconsistent,
(04:39):
which means we can be self deceived.
We can be intending to do good, but not good.
And I think most of us can look back on our lives and and see
moments where where we thought we were doing the right thing,
but we realized later we we weren't quite as right as we
thought we were. If you're married, you for sure
have had moments like that. And and so that's just that self
(05:01):
deception piece is a really important piece that a lot of
people don't think through when they're thinking through living
out the authentic Christian faith.
It means in a lot of ways we should look at Jesus final
public message like we look at awell visit, like we got.
We know that we go to the doctorfor like when we're sick, right?
(05:21):
Well, you know, you feel it, yougo to the doctor, but we also go
to the doctor when we feel fine,a well visit, an annual checkup.
And the reason that we do that is because we know that there
can be deadly things that work in us that we don't feel.
That's the message of the Bible and why it's so important for
us, especially in a blessed place like we are in in Western
culture, to be especially careful to the idea that we
(05:45):
could be self deceived. Yeah, it's interesting to think
about that, that different context of being in a Muslim
area where there's not an advantage to being a fake
Christian. So true.
You know, it's interesting. I remember as a young, as a
young man, as I was kind of, youknow, because I had the
experience, I grew up in a Christian home, you know, knew
all about Jesus. But then I had a moment kind of
(06:06):
in it was in middle school for me as a young teen where that
faith really actually became real for me.
And so that was a pivot. And I remember actually shortly
after that time thinking to myself, maybe it would be better
to live in a place like a Muslimcountry where it's hard to be a
Christian because then I wouldn't be so tempted to be a
fake Christian and I wouldn't besurrounded by others who are
also tempted to be a fake Christian.
Now over time, especially now becoming a husband and a dad now
(06:31):
I say, you know, actually there are some good things about
living in a Westernized culture that that has some Christian
principles, some Christian background.
There's some definite advantagesto that.
Like you said, there are dangers, right?
There's the danger eternally, but also we have the advantage
that we can share the gospel freely without fear of being
imprisoned about or killed or any of those kind of things.
(06:53):
So, pros and cons. Yeah, that that that's exactly
light. I remember someone talking about
how our past 10 years ish has kind of led to the cultural
Christianity that used to be a positive social good is no
longer a social good. So you think about the example
of a realtor who doesn't really care about the faith but goes to
(07:15):
church because it's good for their business as an example.
There's a lot of great Realtors who are followers, but that
being an example of it's no longer seen as a as a good at
the same level that it used to be.
And they were. And they said, you know what
good, you know it, that's great,let's get rid of that.
So now we have more of the real thing.
But someone else pushed back on that and said, well actually it
(07:36):
it's the way we say good or bad depends on what is replaced
with. Because if you replace cultural
Christianity that's closer but not there to experiencing that
grace at a common grace level with something that's way
further away worse, then it's not good in the sense of an
improvement. And so it's it's like so many
(07:59):
things more complicated than youthink through.
That's why it's so important forChristians to be pursuing often
in Christianity and not assumingthat just because you live in an
area that you'll take it in any more than you think that if you
walk in your garage and stand there for a little bit,
eventually you'll become a car. That's right.
(08:19):
Like there has to be things thattake place in our lives.
They are decisive, they are miraculous, they are not
ordinary. And that kind of thing doesn't
happen. And it's something we got to be
intentional about. Yeah, definitely.
So Speaking of fake Christianity, honey, we've
talked a lot about it. I think a lot of us probably we
have a an innate sense of what it is.
(08:40):
But to kind of hone in a little bit on a definition, Jed, could
you help us out with what is this thing called fake
Christianity? Yeah, well the the title comes
from that message, the fact thatJesus in Matthew chapter 23 uses
the word hypocrite 7 times. This harsh message out of all
the things you get have talked about in the last public message
on that Tuesday of Easter week, he really give the strong
(09:02):
message. You hypocrites, you hypocrites,
you hypocrites. And I think the reason he does
that is because he he wants us to watch out for the things that
will be most prone to overlook. And he doesn't want us to be OK
with any spiritual cancer cells in our lives.
And so that's all we need to watch out for these subtle fake
(09:24):
faith, that subtle fake Christianity, the subtle
presence of sin that is still there for Christians, right?
Of course, as a non Christian mebefore I was 20 years old, I
struggled with it. I was, I was playing games at
that level. And may and there may be people
that are listening to this, thatthat God uses this to awaken to
(09:47):
the fact that, oh, I'm just playing games with Christian.
I'm not really in this thing, but more likely is the case that
it's a genuine Christian that's just struggling with some
presence of of fake Christianityor sin, right, That that that
the cross pays the penalty of sin breaks the power of sin.
But the presence of sin is ongoing.
(10:08):
And so another way to put it is fake Christianity is still
something that we have to battle.
So what is fake Christianity? It's just something that seems
like Christianity. That's not they could be
something that a lost person struggles with or a real
Christian struggles with. And when you understand that,
you realize something of what JCRile said years ago.
(10:30):
And I love this quote he talked about two marks of a genuine
Christian are new inner peace, which is what we all think of,
but also new inner warfare that there's a good fight that we
have to fight at a heart level, battling the the sins in our own
heart that we used to be OK withthat now because the Spirit of
(10:50):
God is in our lives and in our hearts, we realize man that is
darkness and we need to walk in the light.
Yeah, Amen. I think that's so helpful to
think about it as it's not as simple as saying, you know, if
you're listening to this and you're saying am IA fake
Christian or am IA real Christian.
Now, at at one level you do needto ask that question.
You know, have you, you know, professed Jesus as your Lord and
(11:13):
Savior? Have you come to him with faith
and with repentance from your sins?
Because that's what makes you a Christian.
But also if you have done that, if you are a born again
Christian, you still can struggle with going into this
area of fakeness, of counterfeit, of not real
Christianity, something we all struggle with.
So thinking about that, what aresome of the signs that we might
be drifting into that fake Christianity?
(11:36):
You know, let me just touch on one more thing you mentioned
there makes me think of is, is oftentimes when we talk about
salvation, the Bible is saying to us, it's more simple than you
think and it's more complicated than you think.
You know what I mean? Like the it's more simple than
the sense of you can. Sometimes we think, you know
what I've got to say just the right way.
I had, I've had people like thisin my life as a pastor who's
(11:59):
just, I, I said it this way, nowit counts and that way now it
counts. It's like, no, it's more simple.
You can be the guy, the thief onthe cross next to Jesus and,
and, and he didn't, he didn't have a robust, you know,
understanding of justification by faith alone.
He didn't, you know, he's just saying, I'm, I'm with, I'm with
the guy. I'm with that guy.
As Alistair Baig said, you know,the guy on the cross said I
(12:21):
could come, right? Like it's just a very simple
understanding, childlike faith, right?
That that that's there. It's just you're looking to
Jesus for salvation. It's sometimes more simple, but
at the same time, it's often more complicated than people
realize, which is it's not that you made a simple decision when
you were seven years old and youhaven't done anything since
(12:42):
then. The Bible says no, actually,
it's more complicated that if you genuinely did that years
ago, that you're going to do things like the Bible tells us
to do. Make sure that your election and
calling is sure, right? He says is test yourself right
there. There's a language of, of, of
checking yourself out spiritually.
(13:03):
It's not just, oh, I made a decision when I was 7 years old
and, and now I got that, that insurance down the road.
It's, you know, when it's time, it's time.
He's like, no, no, no, he's, he wants to be in a saving
relationship with you. Now in a saving relationship is
a growing relationship. And so when we think about that
genuine fake Christianity kind of battle, it's it's oftentimes
(13:24):
more more simple and and it's more complicated, you know, so
you think about what are those areas, what he provides, he
provides 10 and I know what we probably have time to talk about
all of them. But like, you know, he starts
with the the we need to be careful that we are hearers of
the word, but not doers of the word, right.
He talks about how the Phariseesand the scribes, he says, do
(13:47):
what they say when they speak from Moses, his seat, but don't
do what they do because they speak but do not act.
And so he starts out, I think, with a really big umbrella over
everything else he's about to say, which just is essentially,
just because you hear the right things, you know the right
things doesn't mean you're in the right place.
(14:08):
You need to hear it and then youneed to live it out.
And it's easy for us to say, youknow what?
I do that. And then we get into a tense
moment and we show with our reaction to our spouse that
we're more of a here than word, than we are a doer of the word.
Or when it comes to our financesand time to be generous like
it's been true of the people of God forever and now we're a hero
(14:32):
of the word or not a doer of theword that where we've received
as Randy Alcorn and says as as we're wealthier as a society
than we've ever been. We're less generous than most
Christians have ever been. We find good reasons for all
kinds of things. We just need to need to be a
little bit more skeptical about our tendency to be a hero of the
word and the doer of the word. My guess is, is if we went
(14:54):
around all your listeners, they could give examples where they
can look back on and say you know what in that moment doesn't
mean I'm not saved. But in that moment I showed I
was more of a hearer than a doerof the word.
Jesus wants us to walk in the fullness of life that he has
bought with us for his blood so that it might be said of us,
which was said Richard Sibs. Heaven was in him before he was
(15:16):
in heaven. And I want that for me.
I want that for for everybody else.
To be part of that means walkingin authentic faith.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's one of those things that I
think, you know, for you and I and for maybe some more mature
believers, it comes so naturallyto us to think in that way.
But I can remember times as a young man, I've talked with
people who are newer to the faith, who have struggled with
this, that they're sitting in church and they're thinking, all
(15:38):
right, I'm a believer now. I shouldn't really feel
convicted anymore. I should be on the side of the
sermon. Just as, you know, it's it's
good. It feels good.
And other people be convicted. But no, that's not actually how
it works. As as Christians, we still have
indwelling sin. We still struggle.
Yes, we're saved by grace. And we live a life not just of
repenting once, but of daily repentance.
(15:59):
And so, yeah, it's a it's one ofthose things.
So for some people, I think that's a concept they're hearing
for the first time. But but that's exactly, we live
a, a life of daily repentance, not just repentance once.
That is the Christian life. So you are saved by grace, and
God calls you to follow him, Obey him, and you don't do it
perfectly until he returns. That's exactly right.
(16:19):
You know, and, and I think that sometimes I, I remember thinking
this way you yet you do think that way, like where I made a
decision. Now just help me walk along this
perfect path, right? You know that I'm that I'm on, I
know I'm not perfect, but you know, it's kind of and then you
find all these passages in the New Testament where you're like
all spending a lot of time talking about how we need the
power of the spirit to do the things he's telling us to do.
(16:41):
Like you're not going to be perfected by your own words, but
by faith. You know, Galatians 3, the power
of the Spirit. And we're, we're walking through
Ephesians in our church right now and just he's talking about
how basically we need the Spiritof God to work in us.
The same story that raised Jesusfrom the dead, that work at you
and the reason they tells us that it's because you got a long
way to go and you can't get there, but he can get you there.
(17:04):
You know, John says and 1st John, he says you talking to
Christians, you say you don't have any sin.
He says you're a liar if you saythat right.
And so these guys aren't saying that to be discouraging, I don't
think. I think what they're, they're
wanting us to do is to think about becoming a Christian, like
a person who's having a bone that's broken set or reconciled
(17:25):
or united and, and, and has never been able to run or walk.
And then each step that we follow Jesus, we're learning in
the power of the spirit to walk for the very first time.
You know, I think that's why James is so passionate about
being a not just a hearer, the word, a doer of the word, not
having demonic faith that knows the answers, but actually living
(17:47):
this thing out because he got a front row seat to Jesus, living
perfectly moment by moment everyday of the life, you know, that
he had growing up with Jesus as as one of Jesus's half brothers.
Right now, I'm sure there's somedays he wished that Mary would
have said, why can't you Jesus be more like your brother James?
(18:08):
But he never heard that, you know, he never heard that kind
of thing, right? But then I'm sure he got older
and he's like, wow, he was one of the few people that got to
see what it was like to see yearby year, day by day, life lived
to the fullest in Christ. And I think that's why we want
to be about that. It's going to feel strange, but
(18:29):
anybody that's ever gone throughphysical therapy understands a
pain is part of the process to you moving at A at a level that
man, you want to be able to move.
Pain is part of the process. I like that or as as one person
put it at our church, He after, he said after the service
pastor, I always appreciate getting my spiritual spanking on
Sunday mornings. So that's how he said it.
(18:50):
One of my favorite comments. We've ever had after a church
service. So so you and I are both
pastors. So let me let me ask this
question. How can pastors or other church
leaders avoid unintentionally disciple in people into a fake
Christianity? You know, I think the the first
thing that comes to mind is you need to pray.
You know, I think about Charles Spurgeon's writing and training
(19:13):
a bunch of pastors. He, he says, essentially,
listen, if you're engaged in ministry and you aren't praying
for your, for your messages, foryour people, for their hearts,
for all the, all the things before, during, after a message
or whatever. He's like, you don't understand
the, the kind of battle you're in, Like you have totally
(19:33):
underestimated the challenge that you're up to.
If you think you can just say itin the right way and things will
go well. Like, so that's what our prayer
life shows our perspective on ourselves, on our honor, on our
God and on those that we're addressing.
Like we don't have it in US right in our prayer life, show
whether or not we actually believe that at a heart level.
(19:54):
So I would just say, Lord, wouldyou help me?
I mean, everybody comes into a church at different experiences
you're talking about. Who knows what's going on?
You alone can give life to dead hearts, encourage dead places of
our hearts. So that's number one.
Number 2 is that we need to be apeople of the word that are
whatever we are, whatever topic it is.
(20:16):
Let's have a verse like, and I know in some corners that's not,
you know, it's just sounds too like, you know, but listen,
like, what are we here for? I mean, it's the word of God
that gives life to the people ofGod.
Let there be light. It is a powerful word.
(20:37):
He calls Abraham, he raises Lazarus from the dead with a
word he says in Second Corinthians that as we speak,
the Spirit of God will speak through our words and and give a
let there be light in the heartsand minds of people.
Well, we don't just need him to do that at the beginning and
then we'll take it from here. We also need his word to
(21:00):
continue to work in their life. So just never become wiser than
the word of God. Stick to the text.
Do do your best to help them seethe beauty that's there right.
And and it comes to our personalities.
I will, you know, watch your sermons, you know, get try to
get better at your craft, but never think that the victory
belongs to you. I love that that Psalm about,
(21:22):
you know, the the horses prepared for battle, but the
victory belongs to the Lord man.Let's get our horses ready for
battle, right. Let's work on man.
It's painful to watch ourselves preach, but it's the quickest
way to becoming more useful to the king.
But even as we do that, let's remember God's, the victory
belongs to the Lord. That's what we pray, we preach.
(21:45):
And then of course, you come alongside and have a multi,
multi level approach. Don't just put everything into
the preaching experience. You need good group life.
You need pointing people to serving.
Let's make it easy sometimes as Bible people can make it really
hard on people to get connected into the time tested things that
that have shown to help people walk in authentic Christianity,
(22:07):
like serving on a team, getting integrated in a, in a church
where you start, you know, all those kinds of things.
There's a lot of other practicalconsiderations, but I I've said
the thing that most guys miss out on is, is the prayer piece.
Absolutely. That makes so much sense.
Yeah, It's it's so easy to jump right into what can I do?
How can I, how can I speak this?How can I do this and solve it
(22:28):
myself? Yeah, definitely.
One of the other things that I've, I've sort of felt too, as
I thought, I thought about this a lot today, just how do we as
pastors make sure we're not discipling people into a fake,
false Christianity is I think some of it is just trying to be
real in the stories we share. I know that's made a difference.
I've had people share with me that's made a difference that,
(22:50):
you know, if the pastor sort of paints this very shiny, glossy
picture of himself, then how canthe people listening have a
different, deeper view? Realize that all of us do really
actually struggle with sin. And it is a fight daily, weekly
to have victory, to become more like Jesus, you know, so we got
to have as, as not just as pastors.
(23:11):
Even if you're a small group leader, if you're an elder, you
know what, whatever role you're playing, you have to have some
vulnerability with people. You have to be able to share.
Hey, I'm, I'm a Sinner too. I struggle.
And this is what it looks like, helps people see, you know, if
if all your illustrations for people are about a white lie
that you told your wife one time, you know, about how she
(23:31):
looked in a dress or something, then you know, you're not really
helping people see that sin is areal problem that that they deal
with, struggle with, need to fight against every day.
No, I, I, I think you're exactlyright.
Makes me think about the story of a guy who grew up in a
pastor's home and he's he's older than me now and I know
(23:52):
both he and his dad and they're heroes of mine like that,
they're awesome. But but the son later in life
ran into some problems and didn't really know how to do
well in those problems. And in a very healthy
conversation, the, the dad essentially arrived at the
conclusion that he showed his son how to do a lot of good
(24:16):
things, but with good intentions.
One of the things he failed to do was to show him how to lose
and how to lose and what had a trip in a way that leans
forward. He, he was, he didn't, he kind
of hid certain things from him, which it's, it's tough to know.
What do you open up to? What do you have with your kids
about ministry? But he, he realized that he,
(24:36):
when he was older and an appropriate time, he didn't let
him into some of the struggles that come and some of the
imperfections and, and exactly what you're talking about.
And so it didn't prepare his sonfor the challenges ahead.
I think, I think that you're exactly right.
We've got to be able to do what the Apostle Paul said where he
says, man, I'm, I'm man, I hate,you know, I, I have to
(24:57):
discipline my body like this body of death, who will deliver
me? He's not saying I've got it all.
You know, there are moments to live his Christ, to die his
game. But there are other moments
where he's like, oh, man, it's just, you know, I or in 2nd
Corinthians 1, he says, I despair for life itself, right?
Like he, he just was so beat down.
But he, he wasn't just beat down.
(25:18):
He let him know that they were beat down, you know, and he, he
lets them know like they were struggling.
Man, that was a tough season. This is a tough season.
But you know, by God's grace, we're sorrowful yet always
rejoicing. So he's able to do that.
He opens up, you know, sometimespeople struggle to open
themselves up in that way. Other times they open themselves
(25:41):
up in a way that's inappropriate.
You know that you have to watch out for, you know, where Paul's
not saying every thought that ran through his head.
You won't believe the kinds of things I struggle with in my
head, right? He's not.
He's not saying that, but he's giving them enough to say, we
all have clay feet, right? We, we hold this treasure in
jars of clay. And so he's saying that enough
(26:02):
to where but he understands, he gets it, but at the same time
that he's striving to imitate Christ, imitate me as I imitate
Christ. And sometimes there's a, a
brokenness culture that almost glorifies the brokenness and,
and, and maybe it overcorrects to the perfection culture, at
(26:24):
least the perception of that. And we need to be able to say,
no, I'm striving for holiness, right?
And that balance is a, is a tough thing, but it's an
important thing. And a big part of it is
authentic, which is an overused word.
I understand. But the reason it's overused is
because it's a reality we're alllooking for in a plastic
Christianity world. Absolutely Amen.
(26:46):
I love that. A couple of fast questions for
you here, Jed, just off just just quick ones.
Number one, we talked a little bit about using the word
specifically in our in our fight, in our striving to have,
you know, a, a true, a faithful,authentic sort of faith.
So Matthew 23 is what the book is built around.
Outside of Matthew 23, what are some quick passages that if
(27:07):
you're struggling with that during the day that you may be
called to mind, whether you havea memorize or whether you pull
them up quickly? What are some verses that people
can just go to quickly to say this is what pulls me back to
having an authentic faith, authentic walk with the Lord?
Well, I, I think that, you know,I think about passages like
first John 19, if you confess your sin, he's faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all
(27:29):
unrighteousness. That out of all of these 10
things, I think that the 10th 1's the most important because
Jesus sees all of their all of their sin and he still says that
he was willing to extend them mercy.
And so that's the big thing is that if you look at this apart
from the last thing, you won't be in that place.
So just knowing there's plenty of blood bought mercy first John
(27:51):
one night. That's a great one for that, I
think. Yeah, that's beautiful.
It's a good one to go to anotherquestion.
What is a question that we should all be asking ourselves
on a daily or weekly basis? What's a what's a way that we
can self reflect and ask ourselves a question to
challenge ourselves? Am I walking faithfully with the
Lord, or am I falling into a fake, false sort of
(28:13):
Christianity? I would say starting by saying
Lord with the prayer Lord, will you show me where where I'm I'm
failing to live up to the authentic Christianity.
Not if show me where and most people it's not going to be some
major okay, we got to get rid ofthe computers and get get TV's
(28:34):
out of our house and all that kind of stuff.
Just show me where, because what, what you'll find is, is
like, okay, just some of the points that Jesus makes that
there are places that I'm, I'm holding people to, to higher
standards and I hold myself likeI or I'm, I'm OK with focusing
on the outside while neglecting the inside, right?
(28:55):
That I, I know what it's like tohonor the Lord with my lips by
having a heart that's far from him that I can be resentful and
I can be bitter. And a lot of these things will
be areas that that no one else maybe outside of you could ever
call you on. But if you just have a category
for it and a suspicious eye that's informed by a healthy
(29:16):
doctrine of ongoing presence of sin for the book of Hebrews
about sin in your own heart, that you'll be able to say, OK,
I can major on the minors and forget the major sometimes.
Or I can condemn others mistakesin a way that blind me to my
own. Or I can play games with the
truth and treat, treat the Biblelike a salad bar or pick and
choose, you know, the, the things that I really care about
(29:37):
don't care about the respectablesins, the Sherry bridges, you
know, puts it. Or I can let my passion for
certain topics throw me off course.
I think that that would be the thing that, you know, you'd want
to watch out for in the midst ofthings like that.
It's just just look at, have some categories and then examine
yourself and see what the Spiritbrings up.
Yeah, I like that. That's so good one.
(29:57):
One that you said already convicted me a lot of do I hold
others to a higher standard thanmyself?
Yeah, that's so easy to do. That cuts last question I have
for you, Jed. One of the things that that we
tend to talk about is the American church.
What is what is the American church need to hear?
What are we struggling with? How would you answer what's
(30:18):
what's 1 message you would want the American church to hear?
Well, I think that if we could get the American church in God's
Word, then everything else untilGod's Word is in the American
church, that the Spirit of God can do once again what the
(30:39):
Spirit of God has done so many times, which is to bring
awakening and revival. Not because we found new
methods, but because we pushed away the distractions and
prioritizes Word. I saw a study that said that if
you're in the Word one time a week, that doesn't make a huge
difference in your life. 2 times, not a big difference. 3
not but 4 when people got to four, I don't know why there's
(31:01):
not a but when 4 It's unbelievable how anxiety, all
these frustrations, a lot of these things that are dominating
people's lives right now just went down significantly.
And joy and all these other great things we all want and we
look for in so many other areas exploded, just went high.
Man, wouldn't it be awesome if we had seven in a row, but four
(31:24):
days in a row? And so I just think getting
people in God's word would be that would if you can be in
God's word, if you can pray yourproblems, pray your plans and
pray with specificity. Specificity leads to visibility.
When you get specific to your prayers, you give the invisible
God an opportunity to become visible in your life in a way
that makes it or you don't even care about the answer to the
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prayer because you have such a sense of His presence.
So I think Bible prayer, gathering with God's people and
watch what God does in your life.
Amen. Amen.
That's right. I love that.
Awesome. Well, brother, it's been so
great getting heavy on the show and have the conversation.
If you're looking for a great book, folks, fake Christianity,
10 traps of an inauthentic faith.
(32:06):
Jed, thanks so much for joining us today.
Great to get to talk with you. Now thanks for having me, I had
a great time. Awesome.
Well, thanks everybody. Have an awesome week.
Welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast where we
answer questions about the Christian faith in plain
language. If you or someone you know has
questions, please submit them toPeace Church dot CC slash
questions. I'm John.
I'm here as your host today, andI'm here with a special
conversation with Jed Coppinger.Excited to talk with him.
(00:31):
He is a lead pastor at First Baptist Church in Cumming, GA.
He has a PhD from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary,
he's an author, and most recently he wrote a book, Fake
Christianity, 10 Traps of an Inauthentic Faith.
So excited to talk with Jed today.
I think there's going to be a great chance to talk, especially
here. It is Halloween time, time of
costumes and counterfeits going to get to have a great
(00:54):
conversation about this thing called fake Christianity.
Jed, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me excited to
be here. So excited for the conversation,
Jed, you mind telling us a little bit more about yourself?
Yeah, I'm married to Melanie for18 years.
We've got a high schooler that'sa senior, a junior, and we got
an eighth grader. So we're in the thick of all of
(01:16):
the fun things. I grew up in a Christian home,
did the double life for most of my upbringing.
Unfortunately became a Christianwhen I was 20 when I got to the
bottom of a broken cistern and found out the emptiness of
success. And ever since then, just been
so glad to to be on theme Jesus and where he calls us.
(01:38):
So excited to be here to talk about this topic.
Yeah, Yeah. Well, I think a lot of us can
relate to that story. Some of us are maybe in the
midst of that double life right now.
I appreciate you sharing that. Being vulnerable about that.
I think that's actually something.
So I'm coming from, you know, the area around Grand Rapids,
MI, West Michigan, which is a historically very religious
area. You're down there in Georgia in
(02:00):
the Bible Belt area. That's very religious, I think.
Jed, do you think it's easier tofall into that trap in those
areas like West Michigan, like the Bible Belt?
If so, why is it more easy to fall into that fake Christianity
in an area like that? You know, I think in a lot of
ways it's easier because it's it's more blessed in a lot of
(02:24):
ways. Like it you're not going to fall
into this in 100% Muslim people group that my brother is on the
other side of the world trying to reach right now on the
mission field, 14 unreached people groups that he's he's
really focused on. And so, yeah, in that sense,
you're not growing up cultural Christian.
(02:46):
You're be a cultural Muslim, youknow, probably in that way.
And and so in some ways it's a great blessing to be able to be
in an environment where there's some advantage to acting kind of
like a Christian. MMM But it it doesn't mean that
eternally it's a good thing. You know, I heard one person say
(03:09):
that morality can keep you out of jail.
It can't get you into heaven. And so in some ways those of us
here in Western culture really, but for sure in areas like
Georgia or Tennessee, where I was a year ago in different
places like that, we need to be more alert to the fact that we
(03:31):
may be self deceived, not less than some of these other places.
And self deception is a major emphasis in the Scripture.
I mean, think about passages like in Hebrews where he talks
about to Christians, he says watch out for the deceitfulness
of sin. James talks about how we can be
hearers of the word and not doers deceiving ourselves.
(03:53):
And he's he's talking about thatChristians can be self deceived
and Jesus says final public message, which is what the the
the book is is written primarilyabout on the Tuesday of Easter
week. His final public message, that
word he uses for hypocrite, which is is typically it just
it's from the theater world means masked actor.
(04:15):
So Halloween we're putting on masks.
We're playing a role, you know, for some people are are doing
those kinds of things. It's a mass actor.
But the thing that's so interesting about that is that
New Testament scholar Craig Blomberg points out that that
word can mean someone who's intentionally deceptive, which
is what we typically think of when we think of a hypocrite,
but also someone who's unintentionally inconsistent,
(04:39):
which means we can be self deceived.
We can be intending to do good, but not good.
And I think most of us can look back on our lives and and see
moments where where we thought we were doing the right thing,
but we realized later we we weren't quite as right as we
thought we were. If you're married, you for sure
have had moments like that. And and so that's just that self
(05:01):
deception piece is a really important piece that a lot of
people don't think through when they're thinking through living
out the authentic Christian faith.
It means in a lot of ways we should look at Jesus final
public message like we look at awell visit, like we got.
We know that we go to the doctorfor like when we're sick, right?
(05:21):
Well, you know, you feel it, yougo to the doctor, but we also go
to the doctor when we feel fine,a well visit, an annual checkup.
And the reason that we do that is because we know that there
can be deadly things that work in us that we don't feel.
That's the message of the Bible and why it's so important for
us, especially in a blessed place like we are in in Western
culture, to be especially careful to the idea that we
(05:45):
could be self deceived. Yeah, it's interesting to think
about that, that different context of being in a Muslim
area where there's not an advantage to being a fake
Christian. So true.
You know, it's interesting. I remember as a young, as a
young man, as I was kind of, youknow, because I had the
experience, I grew up in a Christian home, you know, knew
all about Jesus. But then I had a moment kind of
(06:06):
in it was in middle school for me as a young teen where that
faith really actually became real for me.
And so that was a pivot. And I remember actually shortly
after that time thinking to myself, maybe it would be better
to live in a place like a Muslimcountry where it's hard to be a
Christian because then I wouldn't be so tempted to be a
fake Christian and I wouldn't besurrounded by others who are
also tempted to be a fake Christian.
Now over time, especially now becoming a husband and a dad now
(06:31):
I say, you know, actually there are some good things about
living in a Westernized culture that that has some Christian
principles, some Christian background.
There's some definite advantagesto that.
Like you said, there are dangers, right?
There's the danger eternally, but also we have the advantage
that we can share the gospel freely without fear of being
imprisoned about or killed or any of those kind of things.
(06:53):
So, pros and cons. Yeah, that that that's exactly
light. I remember someone talking about
how our past 10 years ish has kind of led to the cultural
Christianity that used to be a positive social good is no
longer a social good. So you think about the example
of a realtor who doesn't really care about the faith but goes to
(07:15):
church because it's good for their business as an example.
There's a lot of great Realtors who are followers, but that
being an example of it's no longer seen as a as a good at
the same level that it used to be.
And they were. And they said, you know what
good, you know it, that's great,let's get rid of that.
So now we have more of the real thing.
But someone else pushed back on that and said, well actually it
(07:36):
it's the way we say good or bad depends on what is replaced
with. Because if you replace cultural
Christianity that's closer but not there to experiencing that
grace at a common grace level with something that's way
further away worse, then it's not good in the sense of an
improvement. And so it's it's like so many
(07:59):
things more complicated than youthink through.
That's why it's so important forChristians to be pursuing often
in Christianity and not assumingthat just because you live in an
area that you'll take it in any more than you think that if you
walk in your garage and stand there for a little bit,
eventually you'll become a car. That's right.
(08:19):
Like there has to be things thattake place in our lives.
They are decisive, they are miraculous, they are not
ordinary. And that kind of thing doesn't
happen. And it's something we got to be
intentional about. Yeah, definitely.
So Speaking of fake Christianity, honey, we've
talked a lot about it. I think a lot of us probably we
have a an innate sense of what it is.
(08:40):
But to kind of hone in a little bit on a definition, Jed, could
you help us out with what is this thing called fake
Christianity? Yeah, well the the title comes
from that message, the fact thatJesus in Matthew chapter 23 uses
the word hypocrite 7 times. This harsh message out of all
the things you get have talked about in the last public message
on that Tuesday of Easter week, he really give the strong
(09:02):
message. You hypocrites, you hypocrites,
you hypocrites. And I think the reason he does
that is because he he wants us to watch out for the things that
will be most prone to overlook. And he doesn't want us to be OK
with any spiritual cancer cells in our lives.
And so that's all we need to watch out for these subtle fake
(09:24):
faith, that subtle fake Christianity, the subtle
presence of sin that is still there for Christians, right?
Of course, as a non Christian mebefore I was 20 years old, I
struggled with it. I was, I was playing games at
that level. And may and there may be people
that are listening to this, thatthat God uses this to awaken to
(09:47):
the fact that, oh, I'm just playing games with Christian.
I'm not really in this thing, but more likely is the case that
it's a genuine Christian that's just struggling with some
presence of of fake Christianityor sin, right, That that that
the cross pays the penalty of sin breaks the power of sin.
But the presence of sin is ongoing.
(10:08):
And so another way to put it is fake Christianity is still
something that we have to battle.
So what is fake Christianity? It's just something that seems
like Christianity. That's not they could be
something that a lost person struggles with or a real
Christian struggles with. And when you understand that,
you realize something of what JCRile said years ago.
(10:30):
And I love this quote he talked about two marks of a genuine
Christian are new inner peace, which is what we all think of,
but also new inner warfare that there's a good fight that we
have to fight at a heart level, battling the the sins in our own
heart that we used to be OK withthat now because the Spirit of
(10:50):
God is in our lives and in our hearts, we realize man that is
darkness and we need to walk in the light.
Yeah, Amen. I think that's so helpful to
think about it as it's not as simple as saying, you know, if
you're listening to this and you're saying am IA fake
Christian or am IA real Christian.
Now, at at one level you do needto ask that question.
You know, have you, you know, professed Jesus as your Lord and
(11:13):
Savior? Have you come to him with faith
and with repentance from your sins?
Because that's what makes you a Christian.
But also if you have done that, if you are a born again
Christian, you still can struggle with going into this
area of fakeness, of counterfeit, of not real
Christianity, something we all struggle with.
So thinking about that, what aresome of the signs that we might
be drifting into that fake Christianity?
(11:36):
You know, let me just touch on one more thing you mentioned
there makes me think of is, is oftentimes when we talk about
salvation, the Bible is saying to us, it's more simple than you
think and it's more complicated than you think.
You know what I mean? Like the it's more simple than
the sense of you can. Sometimes we think, you know
what I've got to say just the right way.
I had, I've had people like thisin my life as a pastor who's
(11:59):
just, I, I said it this way, nowit counts and that way now it
counts. It's like, no, it's more simple.
You can be the guy, the thief onthe cross next to Jesus and,
and, and he didn't, he didn't have a robust, you know,
understanding of justification by faith alone.
He didn't, you know, he's just saying, I'm, I'm with, I'm with
the guy. I'm with that guy.
As Alistair Baig said, you know,the guy on the cross said I
(12:21):
could come, right? Like it's just a very simple
understanding, childlike faith, right?
That that that's there. It's just you're looking to
Jesus for salvation. It's sometimes more simple, but
at the same time, it's often more complicated than people
realize, which is it's not that you made a simple decision when
you were seven years old and youhaven't done anything since
(12:42):
then. The Bible says no, actually,
it's more complicated that if you genuinely did that years
ago, that you're going to do things like the Bible tells us
to do. Make sure that your election and
calling is sure, right? He says is test yourself right
there. There's a language of, of, of
checking yourself out spiritually.
(13:03):
It's not just, oh, I made a decision when I was 7 years old
and, and now I got that, that insurance down the road.
It's, you know, when it's time, it's time.
He's like, no, no, no, he's, he wants to be in a saving
relationship with you. Now in a saving relationship is
a growing relationship. And so when we think about that
genuine fake Christianity kind of battle, it's it's oftentimes
(13:24):
more more simple and and it's more complicated, you know, so
you think about what are those areas, what he provides, he
provides 10 and I know what we probably have time to talk about
all of them. But like, you know, he starts
with the the we need to be careful that we are hearers of
the word, but not doers of the word, right.
He talks about how the Phariseesand the scribes, he says, do
(13:47):
what they say when they speak from Moses, his seat, but don't
do what they do because they speak but do not act.
And so he starts out, I think, with a really big umbrella over
everything else he's about to say, which just is essentially,
just because you hear the right things, you know the right
things doesn't mean you're in the right place.
(14:08):
You need to hear it and then youneed to live it out.
And it's easy for us to say, youknow what?
I do that. And then we get into a tense
moment and we show with our reaction to our spouse that
we're more of a here than word, than we are a doer of the word.
Or when it comes to our financesand time to be generous like
it's been true of the people of God forever and now we're a hero
(14:32):
of the word or not a doer of theword that where we've received
as Randy Alcorn and says as as we're wealthier as a society
than we've ever been. We're less generous than most
Christians have ever been. We find good reasons for all
kinds of things. We just need to need to be a
little bit more skeptical about our tendency to be a hero of the
word and the doer of the word. My guess is, is if we went
(14:54):
around all your listeners, they could give examples where they
can look back on and say you know what in that moment doesn't
mean I'm not saved. But in that moment I showed I
was more of a hearer than a doerof the word.
Jesus wants us to walk in the fullness of life that he has
bought with us for his blood so that it might be said of us,
which was said Richard Sibs. Heaven was in him before he was
(15:16):
in heaven. And I want that for me.
I want that for for everybody else.
To be part of that means walkingin authentic faith.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. It's one of those things that I
think, you know, for you and I and for maybe some more mature
believers, it comes so naturallyto us to think in that way.
But I can remember times as a young man, I've talked with
people who are newer to the faith, who have struggled with
this, that they're sitting in church and they're thinking, all
(15:38):
right, I'm a believer now. I shouldn't really feel
convicted anymore. I should be on the side of the
sermon. Just as, you know, it's it's
good. It feels good.
And other people be convicted. But no, that's not actually how
it works. As as Christians, we still have
indwelling sin. We still struggle.
Yes, we're saved by grace. And we live a life not just of
repenting once, but of daily repentance.
(15:59):
And so, yeah, it's a it's one ofthose things.
So for some people, I think that's a concept they're hearing
for the first time. But but that's exactly, we live
a, a life of daily repentance, not just repentance once.
That is the Christian life. So you are saved by grace, and
God calls you to follow him, Obey him, and you don't do it
perfectly until he returns. That's exactly right.
(16:19):
You know, and, and I think that sometimes I, I remember thinking
this way you yet you do think that way, like where I made a
decision. Now just help me walk along this
perfect path, right? You know that I'm that I'm on, I
know I'm not perfect, but you know, it's kind of and then you
find all these passages in the New Testament where you're like
all spending a lot of time talking about how we need the
power of the spirit to do the things he's telling us to do.
(16:41):
Like you're not going to be perfected by your own words, but
by faith. You know, Galatians 3, the power
of the Spirit. And we're, we're walking through
Ephesians in our church right now and just he's talking about
how basically we need the Spiritof God to work in us.
The same story that raised Jesusfrom the dead, that work at you
and the reason they tells us that it's because you got a long
way to go and you can't get there, but he can get you there.
(17:04):
You know, John says and 1st John, he says you talking to
Christians, you say you don't have any sin.
He says you're a liar if you saythat right.
And so these guys aren't saying that to be discouraging, I don't
think. I think what they're, they're
wanting us to do is to think about becoming a Christian, like
a person who's having a bone that's broken set or reconciled
(17:25):
or united and, and, and has never been able to run or walk.
And then each step that we follow Jesus, we're learning in
the power of the spirit to walk for the very first time.
You know, I think that's why James is so passionate about
being a not just a hearer, the word, a doer of the word, not
having demonic faith that knows the answers, but actually living
(17:47):
this thing out because he got a front row seat to Jesus, living
perfectly moment by moment everyday of the life, you know, that
he had growing up with Jesus as as one of Jesus's half brothers.
Right now, I'm sure there's somedays he wished that Mary would
have said, why can't you Jesus be more like your brother James?
(18:08):
But he never heard that, you know, he never heard that kind
of thing, right? But then I'm sure he got older
and he's like, wow, he was one of the few people that got to
see what it was like to see yearby year, day by day, life lived
to the fullest in Christ. And I think that's why we want
to be about that. It's going to feel strange, but
(18:29):
anybody that's ever gone throughphysical therapy understands a
pain is part of the process to you moving at A at a level that
man, you want to be able to move.
Pain is part of the process. I like that or as as one person
put it at our church, He after, he said after the service
pastor, I always appreciate getting my spiritual spanking on
Sunday mornings. So that's how he said it.
(18:50):
One of my favorite comments. We've ever had after a church
service. So so you and I are both
pastors. So let me let me ask this
question. How can pastors or other church
leaders avoid unintentionally disciple in people into a fake
Christianity? You know, I think the the first
thing that comes to mind is you need to pray.
You know, I think about Charles Spurgeon's writing and training
(19:13):
a bunch of pastors. He, he says, essentially,
listen, if you're engaged in ministry and you aren't praying
for your, for your messages, foryour people, for their hearts,
for all the, all the things before, during, after a message
or whatever. He's like, you don't understand
the, the kind of battle you're in, Like you have totally
(19:33):
underestimated the challenge that you're up to.
If you think you can just say itin the right way and things will
go well. Like, so that's what our prayer
life shows our perspective on ourselves, on our honor, on our
God and on those that we're addressing.
Like we don't have it in US right in our prayer life, show
whether or not we actually believe that at a heart level.
(19:54):
So I would just say, Lord, wouldyou help me?
I mean, everybody comes into a church at different experiences
you're talking about. Who knows what's going on?
You alone can give life to dead hearts, encourage dead places of
our hearts. So that's number one.
Number 2 is that we need to be apeople of the word that are
whatever we are, whatever topic it is.
(20:16):
Let's have a verse like, and I know in some corners that's not,
you know, it's just sounds too like, you know, but listen,
like, what are we here for? I mean, it's the word of God
that gives life to the people ofGod.
Let there be light. It is a powerful word.
(20:37):
He calls Abraham, he raises Lazarus from the dead with a
word he says in Second Corinthians that as we speak,
the Spirit of God will speak through our words and and give a
let there be light in the heartsand minds of people.
Well, we don't just need him to do that at the beginning and
then we'll take it from here. We also need his word to
(21:00):
continue to work in their life. So just never become wiser than
the word of God. Stick to the text.
Do do your best to help them seethe beauty that's there right.
And and it comes to our personalities.
I will, you know, watch your sermons, you know, get try to
get better at your craft, but never think that the victory
belongs to you. I love that that Psalm about,
(21:22):
you know, the the horses prepared for battle, but the
victory belongs to the Lord man.Let's get our horses ready for
battle, right. Let's work on man.
It's painful to watch ourselves preach, but it's the quickest
way to becoming more useful to the king.
But even as we do that, let's remember God's, the victory
belongs to the Lord. That's what we pray, we preach.
(21:45):
And then of course, you come alongside and have a multi,
multi level approach. Don't just put everything into
the preaching experience. You need good group life.
You need pointing people to serving.
Let's make it easy sometimes as Bible people can make it really
hard on people to get connected into the time tested things that
that have shown to help people walk in authentic Christianity,
(22:07):
like serving on a team, getting integrated in a, in a church
where you start, you know, all those kinds of things.
There's a lot of other practicalconsiderations, but I I've said
the thing that most guys miss out on is, is the prayer piece.
Absolutely. That makes so much sense.
Yeah, It's it's so easy to jump right into what can I do?
How can I, how can I speak this?How can I do this and solve it
(22:28):
myself? Yeah, definitely.
One of the other things that I've, I've sort of felt too, as
I thought, I thought about this a lot today, just how do we as
pastors make sure we're not discipling people into a fake,
false Christianity is I think some of it is just trying to be
real in the stories we share. I know that's made a difference.
I've had people share with me that's made a difference that,
(22:50):
you know, if the pastor sort of paints this very shiny, glossy
picture of himself, then how canthe people listening have a
different, deeper view? Realize that all of us do really
actually struggle with sin. And it is a fight daily, weekly
to have victory, to become more like Jesus, you know, so we got
to have as, as not just as pastors.
(23:11):
Even if you're a small group leader, if you're an elder, you
know what, whatever role you're playing, you have to have some
vulnerability with people. You have to be able to share.
Hey, I'm, I'm a Sinner too. I struggle.
And this is what it looks like, helps people see, you know, if
if all your illustrations for people are about a white lie
that you told your wife one time, you know, about how she
(23:31):
looked in a dress or something, then you know, you're not really
helping people see that sin is areal problem that that they deal
with, struggle with, need to fight against every day.
No, I, I, I think you're exactlyright.
Makes me think about the story of a guy who grew up in a
pastor's home and he's he's older than me now and I know
(23:52):
both he and his dad and they're heroes of mine like that,
they're awesome. But but the son later in life
ran into some problems and didn't really know how to do
well in those problems. And in a very healthy
conversation, the, the dad essentially arrived at the
conclusion that he showed his son how to do a lot of good
(24:16):
things, but with good intentions.
One of the things he failed to do was to show him how to lose
and how to lose and what had a trip in a way that leans
forward. He, he was, he didn't, he kind
of hid certain things from him, which it's, it's tough to know.
What do you open up to? What do you have with your kids
about ministry? But he, he realized that he,
(24:36):
when he was older and an appropriate time, he didn't let
him into some of the struggles that come and some of the
imperfections and, and exactly what you're talking about.
And so it didn't prepare his sonfor the challenges ahead.
I think, I think that you're exactly right.
We've got to be able to do what the Apostle Paul said where he
says, man, I'm, I'm man, I hate,you know, I, I have to
(24:57):
discipline my body like this body of death, who will deliver
me? He's not saying I've got it all.
You know, there are moments to live his Christ, to die his
game. But there are other moments
where he's like, oh, man, it's just, you know, I or in 2nd
Corinthians 1, he says, I despair for life itself, right?
Like he, he just was so beat down.
But he, he wasn't just beat down.
(25:18):
He let him know that they were beat down, you know, and he, he
lets them know like they were struggling.
Man, that was a tough season. This is a tough season.
But you know, by God's grace, we're sorrowful yet always
rejoicing. So he's able to do that.
He opens up, you know, sometimespeople struggle to open
themselves up in that way. Other times they open themselves
(25:41):
up in a way that's inappropriate.
You know that you have to watch out for, you know, where Paul's
not saying every thought that ran through his head.
You won't believe the kinds of things I struggle with in my
head, right? He's not.
He's not saying that, but he's giving them enough to say, we
all have clay feet, right? We, we hold this treasure in
jars of clay. And so he's saying that enough
(26:02):
to where but he understands, he gets it, but at the same time
that he's striving to imitate Christ, imitate me as I imitate
Christ. And sometimes there's a, a
brokenness culture that almost glorifies the brokenness and,
and, and maybe it overcorrects to the perfection culture, at
(26:24):
least the perception of that. And we need to be able to say,
no, I'm striving for holiness, right?
And that balance is a, is a tough thing, but it's an
important thing. And a big part of it is
authentic, which is an overused word.
I understand. But the reason it's overused is
because it's a reality we're alllooking for in a plastic
Christianity world. Absolutely Amen.
(26:46):
I love that. A couple of fast questions for
you here, Jed, just off just just quick ones.
Number one, we talked a little bit about using the word
specifically in our in our fight, in our striving to have,
you know, a, a true, a faithful,authentic sort of faith.
So Matthew 23 is what the book is built around.
Outside of Matthew 23, what are some quick passages that if
(27:07):
you're struggling with that during the day that you may be
called to mind, whether you havea memorize or whether you pull
them up quickly? What are some verses that people
can just go to quickly to say this is what pulls me back to
having an authentic faith, authentic walk with the Lord?
Well, I, I think that, you know,I think about passages like
first John 19, if you confess your sin, he's faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all
(27:29):
unrighteousness. That out of all of these 10
things, I think that the 10th 1's the most important because
Jesus sees all of their all of their sin and he still says that
he was willing to extend them mercy.
And so that's the big thing is that if you look at this apart
from the last thing, you won't be in that place.
So just knowing there's plenty of blood bought mercy first John
(27:51):
one night. That's a great one for that, I
think. Yeah, that's beautiful.
It's a good one to go to anotherquestion.
What is a question that we should all be asking ourselves
on a daily or weekly basis? What's a what's a way that we
can self reflect and ask ourselves a question to
challenge ourselves? Am I walking faithfully with the
Lord, or am I falling into a fake, false sort of
(28:13):
Christianity? I would say starting by saying
Lord with the prayer Lord, will you show me where where I'm I'm
failing to live up to the authentic Christianity.
Not if show me where and most people it's not going to be some
major okay, we got to get rid ofthe computers and get get TV's
(28:34):
out of our house and all that kind of stuff.
Just show me where, because what, what you'll find is, is
like, okay, just some of the points that Jesus makes that
there are places that I'm, I'm holding people to, to higher
standards and I hold myself likeI or I'm, I'm OK with focusing
on the outside while neglecting the inside, right?
(28:55):
That I, I know what it's like tohonor the Lord with my lips by
having a heart that's far from him that I can be resentful and
I can be bitter. And a lot of these things will
be areas that that no one else maybe outside of you could ever
call you on. But if you just have a category
for it and a suspicious eye that's informed by a healthy
(29:16):
doctrine of ongoing presence of sin for the book of Hebrews
about sin in your own heart, that you'll be able to say, OK,
I can major on the minors and forget the major sometimes.
Or I can condemn others mistakesin a way that blind me to my
own. Or I can play games with the
truth and treat, treat the Biblelike a salad bar or pick and
choose, you know, the, the things that I really care about
(29:37):
don't care about the respectablesins, the Sherry bridges, you
know, puts it. Or I can let my passion for
certain topics throw me off course.
I think that that would be the thing that, you know, you'd want
to watch out for in the midst ofthings like that.
It's just just look at, have some categories and then examine
yourself and see what the Spiritbrings up.
Yeah, I like that. That's so good one.
(29:57):
One that you said already convicted me a lot of do I hold
others to a higher standard thanmyself?
Yeah, that's so easy to do. That cuts last question I have
for you, Jed. One of the things that that we
tend to talk about is the American church.
What is what is the American church need to hear?
What are we struggling with? How would you answer what's
(30:18):
what's 1 message you would want the American church to hear?
Well, I think that if we could get the American church in God's
Word, then everything else untilGod's Word is in the American
church, that the Spirit of God can do once again what the
(30:39):
Spirit of God has done so many times, which is to bring
awakening and revival. Not because we found new
methods, but because we pushed away the distractions and
prioritizes Word. I saw a study that said that if
you're in the Word one time a week, that doesn't make a huge
difference in your life. 2 times, not a big difference. 3
not but 4 when people got to four, I don't know why there's
(31:01):
not a but when 4 It's unbelievable how anxiety, all
these frustrations, a lot of these things that are dominating
people's lives right now just went down significantly.
And joy and all these other great things we all want and we
look for in so many other areas exploded, just went high.
Man, wouldn't it be awesome if we had seven in a row, but four
(31:24):
days in a row? And so I just think getting
people in God's word would be that would if you can be in
God's word, if you can pray yourproblems, pray your plans and
pray with specificity. Specificity leads to visibility.
When you get specific to your prayers, you give the invisible
God an opportunity to become visible in your life in a way
that makes it or you don't even care about the answer to the
(31:46):
prayer because you have such a sense of His presence.
So I think Bible prayer, gathering with God's people and
watch what God does in your life.
Amen. Amen.
That's right. I love that.
Awesome. Well, brother, it's been so
great getting heavy on the show and have the conversation.
If you're looking for a great book, folks, fake Christianity,
10 traps of an inauthentic faith.
(32:06):
Jed, thanks so much for joining us today.
Great to get to talk with you. Now thanks for having me, I had
a great time. Awesome.
Well, thanks everybody. Have an awesome week.
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