October 31, 2025 • 40 mins
This episode we talk about tariffs climbing, the holiday surge is fast approaching, and every margin feels tighter. In this conversation with James Terry, Head of U.S. Revenue at Indeed Flex, we explore how logistics leaders can stay agile when freight must keep moving and teams are stretched thin. His core message: build a flexible, ratings-driven, AI-enabled labor layer that can expand or contract with demand—without burning out your core staff or sacrificing performance.
James breaks down what’s driving the stress at the end of the supply chain, why traditional staffing models are cracking, and how AI and worker autonomy can create efficiency without adding overhead. The result is a clear, actionable playbook for peak season success built on flexibility, data, and leadership that empowers rather than micromanages.
Key Takeaways
✅ Flexibility Beats Burnout
Build an adaptable workforce model that expands and contracts with demand. Combine a strong full-time core with on-demand, high-rated talent to handle peak surges efficiently.
✅ Ratings-Driven Labor Improves Quality
Use a five-star performance and reliability system to match the best workers to mission-critical shifts, improving fill rates and reducing no-shows.
✅ AI-Enabled Recruiting Adds Speed and Fairness
Deploy AI interview agents and automated scheduling to boost recruiter productivity, reduce bias, and connect with candidates 24/7.
✅ Instant Pay & Virtual Onboarding Increase Retention
Offering same-day pay and seamless digital onboarding attracts better talent and keeps workers engaged through the busy season.
✅ Forecast with Real Data
Leverage historical shift data and past season usage patterns to predict demand accurately and prevent costly overtime or understaffing.
✅ Know When to Fire Bad-Fit Clients
Protect throughput by dropping clients that consistently disrupt schedules or push unrealistic service levels—quality partnerships drive performance.
✅ Empower Teams, Don’t Micromanage
Train and trust your team to run operations smoothly without constant oversight. Freeing leaders from daily chaos creates time for strategy and growth.
✅ Resilience Is the Real Competitive Edge
When costs rise and labor tightens, operational discipline, flexible talent, and tech-enabled decision-making become the difference between surviving and scaling.
✅ As a bonus resource, if you want to brush up on leadership principles to apply during these high-pressure seasons, here’s a link to on: Amazon – The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership
Interested in being a guest on the podcast? Click here to join the conversation!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:01):
Welcome back to That's Delivered Podcast.
I'm your host, Trucking Ray, andtoday we're diving into
something that every truckingand logistics company is feeling
right now the cost pressure.
Tariffs are climbing, holidaysurge is coming, and margins are
tighter than ever.
My guest is James Terry, thehead of U.S.
Revenue at Index Flex.
He knows the struggle firsthand.
With over 15 years of staffingand HR leadership, including
(00:24):
more than a decade at ADP, Jamesis helping companies harness
AI-powered staffing to scalequickly, cut costs, and keep
goods moving when demand spikes.
And here's why it matters intrucking.
For us, drivers can't deliverfreight if warehouses are
understaffed or lows can't move,if ships go unfilled, and
companies can't survive ifovertime and burnout eat up the
(00:46):
bottom line.
And James is going to show ushow to fix that.
All right, James, welcome to theshow.
Glad to have you on.
How are you doing?
Thanks.
I'm great, Ray.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
Thanks for having me.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Awesome.
Awesome.
That's great.
You know, times are hard rightnow.
It looks like you're helping outa lot of companies.
Um take care of that bottomline.
Um, what's uh something thatyou've worked on, some of the
some of the things that you'vehelped out?
I know you've been with ADP anduh Index Flex.
Uh what's one lesson have youlearned over the years or to
help shape how companies canmanage today?
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
Yeah, so uh I would say one lesson I've learned over
the years, especially as itcomes to logistics and freight,
uh trucking, whatnot, is thatuh, well, two things really.
First of all, yesterday's bestis not good enough for today.
Um the second thing is that uhyou have to live in a world and
be appreciative of the factthere's constant change in this
(01:39):
industry and you always need tobe willing to move on a dime.
And uh, you know, sometimes thebest laid plans are great, but
you know, when you get that lastminute load that comes in, or
all of a sudden like the SuezCanal gets blocked, or whatever
it might be, there's a lot ofchanges and you need to be able
to operate with a fair amount ofnimbleness within your business
to be able to ensure that you'redelivering product to your
(02:01):
customers.
It's not just about having likea really strong operational
plan, but it's, you know, I'dsay like ultimately in the
service industry, and that'swhat indeed flex, what we are,
we we provide labor as aservice.
Um, in trucking, you providetransport as a service.
Um, it's not about whether ornot mistakes are going to be
made and things are not gonna gowell.
(02:21):
That's inevitable, right?
That always happens.
You kind of walk into it knowingthat.
It's about how quickly can youimprove, make changes, and uh
solve the problem quickly.
And I think that's one of thethings that really resonates
with me.
And one of the things that I'veI've I've always taken with my
team is it's not about making amistake, it's about how do you
fix that and how do you fix itquickly so that it it does not
create operational burden.
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
Wow.
Uh what makes the space a littleharder or more unique than
others?
Uh, maybe certain companies liketrucking or logistics, uh, what
what do you think is uh mostchallenging?
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
Yeah, so so I'd say that the the biggest challenge
that we have is that, you know,in in trucking or in logistics,
you're kind of at the very, veryend of the supply chain.
But if you think about like youneed to design a good or
service, and then you need to goand manufacture it, and then you
need to ship it, and then youneed to ship it to a warehouse
(03:14):
or distribution center.
And then you kind of need tomake sure it actually gets, you
know, if you're taking theexample of like delivering
something to someone's house,they need to make sure it gets
to that person's house.
And like there are so manyplaces along the way where
something can happen that'sunplanned.
And because of that, what endsup happening in the industry is
there's a huge amount of unknownand and questions.
(03:36):
Like we had a client, you know,as as we all know, it's early
October right now.
I'm sure this went when thisairs, it'll probably be just
entering the height of the peakseason for a lot of people in
our industry.
And we just had a client wholiterally came to us and they
said, Hey, you know what?
Uh, it turns out we thought thatour demand was gonna look like
this.
Turns out that, like overall,when you look at Q4 of the year,
October, November, December,it's gonna be the same.
(03:58):
It's gonna be what we thought itwas, but it's gonna be a lot
smaller in October and we'regonna need to ram it all into
November and December.
Right.
And you need to be willing toget those emails and have those
conversations and thatcommunication, be able to like
really turn on a dime because,you know, at the end of the day,
like when we we as at IndeedFlex, we provide labor as a
service and you know, it'stemporary staffing.
(04:20):
And so people typically like youwant to fill all of your work
with your permanent employees,with your permanent workforce.
And they come to temporary laboras their contingency.
And so you need to be faster andquicker and providing better
quality, more consistent staffthan they can do on their own.
And so it's really important tomake sure that like when they
pull that release valve, thatrelease valve is us.
(04:41):
And so, you know, if if all of asudden we're not able to provide
the staff or we're not able toprovide enough people or the
quality of people they need,then all of a sudden that just
doesn't have a downstream effecton us and our relationship with
them.
But now they're having to pickup the phone and call their
clients and say, hey, we're notable to get this package out the
door.
We're not able to help youmaintain your SLAs or your
delivery commitments with yourcustomers.
(05:03):
And so it just becomes really,really critical.
Like we're kind of the line ofdefense, the last line of
defense for a lot of businesses.
And it's so critical, especiallyright now, coming into this peak
period of the year, that likeeveryone needs to be operating
on full, on, you know, on inoverdrive, really to make sure
that we're able to deliver to alot of these like very, very
last-minute needs that customershave.
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
Wow.
Yeah, deliver those needs.
I mean, that's huge.
Um, you guys are doing a greatservice.
That's nice that you're also uhable to do that.
I mean, and to speak on it andlet other people know that you
provide it.
So how did you get into thisspace?
How did you get into uh whereyou're at today?
Uh you got a little backgroundstory you want to share with the
listeners?
unknown (05:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:38):
So I I started, as you'd mentioned, I started uh my
career at at ADP, and that's apayroll company, um, largest
payroll company in the world,and uh and and really enjoyed
that and and enjoyed kind of,you know, you call that like
human capital management, the HRindustry.
Um and then when I was lookingat at other options, um, one of
(05:58):
the things that really uh thatreally appealed to me about
Indeed Flex was the concept thatthey're trying to flip the
temporary staffing marketcompletely on its head.
So here's what I mean by that,Ray's.
Typically, I don't know if I'msure a lot of the listeners on
this call have had a temp job inthe past, worked in a warehouse,
worked as a server or banquetstaff or concessions, clerical
(06:20):
role, right?
Temporary staffing is all overthe place.
It's a hundreds of billions ofdollar industry in the US.
What typically happens intemporary staffing is a worker
applies for a job, maybe walksinto a brick and mortar branch
in a strip mall or something,and they say, Hey, I need a job.
The person at this temporarystaffing organization goes in
and looks at it and says, Okay,well, you know what?
(06:41):
We have a client that needssomeone in this location or
doing this job or whatever thisshift is.
And you get assigned somewhere.
You don't really have choice.
You don't have control over it.
And we found at Indeed Flex thatactually, if you flip it on its
head and you actually givecontrol and choice to the job
seeker, you end up gettingbetter results.
So actually, like the genesisstory of what happened and how
(07:03):
Indeed Flex was founded was wehad uh one of uh one of our
founders was actually living inthe UK and going to college, and
he found out that like he workedat a staffing firm.
And they would always have himdrive out to these really,
really, really rural locationsto do like, you know, picture
like Downton Abbey, right?
Beautiful like wedding at thisamazing estate.
(07:25):
And, you know, it sounds great.
But they would have him driveout there, it was 20, 30
minutes, and they realized hehad a car.
And so they would say, Hey,Jack, would you mind maybe
picking up some people on theway and taking them out too?
And so all of a sudden he waslike carpooling people out,
picking them up, dropping themoff.
And he referred to one of hisbuddies who was also a bartender
to the same same staffingagency.
Well, his buddy didn't have acar, so his buddy picked up all
(07:45):
the jobs that were local, rightdown the street, doing
bartending or whatever.
And he's like, wait a second,this isn't fair.
The only reason I'm I'm gettingthese jobs that are way out in
the middle of nowhere in Podunkis because I got a car.
And he's like, I should be ableto choose.
And so that's really where thegenesis of Indeed Flex was like,
how can you give people offersand you say, hey, here are the
four, five, six, seven differentopportunities you have.
(08:08):
Maybe it is a temp-to-permassignment, maybe it's ad hoc,
maybe it's close by, maybe it'sfar away, the pay rate might be
higher, the payment pay ratemight be lower.
But let people choose where andhow and when they want to work.
And if you do that, you're gonnaget a workforce that's more
engaged, more happy, moreexcited, that's more consistent.
Because, you know, while whilegetting the highest pay is the
(08:31):
most important, if I can get ajob for 20 bucks an hour, but I
have to work five days a week,but every Wednesday I have to
take ground out of the doctor,potentially I can't pick up that
job.
Maybe I'd rather work somethingthat's a dollar to less an hour,
but I have more flexibility inmy schedule, or maybe it's
closer to where I live so Idon't have to spend as much on
public transportation.
And so by giving people thatcontrol and choice, they pick up
(08:53):
the jobs that they want.
And when, believe it or not,right, when people do work that
they want to do, they actuallystay longer and do a better job
at it.
And so that's really kind of howwe how we uh came about.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
That's awesome.
Yeah, and you know, and givingthat respect back to the um to
the worker is huge.
Um, it it goes a long way.
It's people remember that.
I do remember all of my uh tempjobs.
I've had them too.
So they're a necessary thing,you know.
Um, how can someone get in touchwith you guys if they're a
worker and they want to do more?
SPEAKER_00 (09:23):
Yeah, I mean, you just go to indeedflex.com.
Um, it's I mean, the idea iswe've tried to make it super
easy.
The idea is it is our our goalis it's as easy as pressing a
button to get a job.
And literally you go and youapply for the job, you you see
all the jobs that are open.
Um, you can go through aninterview typically the same
day, really on demand.
You can actually potentiallyapply for the job or apply to to
(09:45):
be onboarded onto Indeed Flexand immediately going into an
interview.
Um, and our goal is hey, youshould be able to download this,
the app right now and hopefullystart work tomorrow.
Um and and you think about that,right?
Like think about how much of agame changer that is for people
to be able to go and start worktomorrow somewhere.
And by the way, Ray, you knowwhat?
(10:06):
And then we also have a systemcalled instant pay, which means
you can get paid that same day.
So you can go, you can besitting there on your couch
right now and not have a job andbe have money in the bank
tomorrow afternoon after yourshift is over.
And you think about how much theworld has evolved in the last
15, 20 years to allow people todo that, right?
Think about 20 years ago, likeyou're pulling out the yellow
(10:26):
pages or right, like theclassified section in the
newspaper and trying to findsomething.
You're talking two, three weeksdown the line before you can get
something.
Now you've reduced friction suchyou can go and find a job
tomorrow.
unknown (10:36):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (10:37):
That is amazing.
Um what does it look like?
Uh is there a brick and mortarbuilding?
This is all virtual.
Uh most of the interviews aredone online.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
Yeah, most of the interviews are done online.
Um, you can do uh your I-9verification is all done
virtually as well.
Um, and and that's really theidea.
Is like, here's the thing isthat the best workers, the best
people are the ones that aregonna get snapped up the
quickest.
And so our goal is like, how canwe make it as easy as possible
for people to get a job?
So we do have a couple of likebrick and mortar locations, but
(11:08):
actually it's like our kind ofour goal is like, why?
Like, why even have them?
Like if you can make it so easy,you don't even need it.
We definitely do job fairs andall that to try to get our name
out there and a lot of likelocal outreach and community
engagement.
But ultimately the goal is like,hey, why not allow someone to be
able to download the app and goget a job tomorrow without
having to, you know, get up offtheir couch?
SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
That's amazing.
Um, I feel the same way aboutreceipts.
I'm like, why do I get the papercopy?
I don't need that.
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
Right, exactly.
Yeah.
I was I was somewhere yesterday.
They're like, Do you want aprinted receipt or do you want
it emailed?
And I'm like, just send it to mein email.
And they're like, okay, cool.
And then they email, but theyalso print it out.
It's like it's such a habit,right?
It's like, and that's I think abig part of the evolution of the
industry.
And you talk about AI and youtalk about like these things
we're discussing with likegetting a job, and like people
are like tiptoeing their wayinto this new way of working.
(11:59):
Um, but they still want to giveyou the paper receipt because
there's there, it feels like itfeels different.
But in reality, like we kind ofall have to get with the program
and be willing to kind of takethat leap of faith.
SPEAKER_01 (12:09):
Yeah, that's a small example to paint the bigger
picture of what's really goingon.
I mean, AI is definitelyshaping, reshaping things for
the workforce, um, especiallyfor things that happen
instantaneously.
Um this generation, too, theywant instant gratification.
So I'm gonna give it to them,right?
So they can go to work and makethose things happen.
Is this in every state or uh howbig is uh your Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
We're we're in just about every state.
Um we are.
And and actually the thing thatyou mentioned around AI, um
we've actually uh most of ourinterviews, a lot of our
interviews are actually donethrough AI.
So we actually have an AI agentthat does the interview.
And uh we started about six orseven months ago.
And do you know what?
Um our recruiter productivityhas skyrocketed.
(12:55):
On average, our recruiters wentfrom doing about 15 to now
they're able to do about 80because we still have recruiters
like look at all the interviewsto validate them.
But you know what the reallyinteresting part is, and this is
I think where like thatevolution you're talking about
is coming in, is that um uh oneof our one of uh an industry
analyst group just ran a surveyand they found that uh 88% of
(13:17):
job seekers actually find an AIinterview as good as, if not
better than, a real recruiterinterview.
So people like it.
And it's because A, there's nobias anymore, right?
Like, you know, like AI is notgonna be biased against you
because of how you look or whatyour background is or whatever.
(13:37):
It's gonna actually look at theanswers that you answered.
Um, and the other really greatpart about it, right, is that
like, think about it.
I'm able to do an AI interviewin the middle of the night.
Like maybe I have a night shiftand maybe I get off at 5 a.m.
and I want to do my interviewthen.
Like AI's always awake, right?
With another interview liveperson.
I got to wait until that personstarts their work and then play
(13:59):
phone tag with them.
And so there's a huge amount ofbenefits in it that that people
are only now starting to takeadvantage of.
SPEAKER_01 (14:06):
Yeah, there's no burnout.
Um a lot of interviews back toback to back to back.
I know it can be really hard ona supervisor or a manager
because they still have to gettheir regular work done and
still fill those positions.
And then someone turns aroundand they say, Wow, I'm gonna
leave.
And they're like, Wow, I justworked really hard to get that
guy or get that position filled,and now they're gone.
(14:29):
So that's huge.
And you guys also do a lot ofthat heavy lifting too.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
So Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And and another, another part ofkind of where we're going and
what we're trying to do is um,you know, like I forget the
exact number, but it'sdefinitely over 70%.
70% of people lie on theirresumes.
And so you think about it, andit's like, okay, well, you know,
the only way I have to actuallyvalidate who someone is outside
(14:55):
of the interview is what theyput on their resume.
Knowing like such a hugeproportion of people are lying
on their resumes, it's like,well, you know, what what can
you really trust?
But you think about it, and it'slike, hey, if you want to go out
to a nice dinner with uh yourboyfriend, girlfriend, husband,
wife, friend, whatever, you goonto Google Maps, you can see
all these reviews, right?
And you can kind of see like,okay, is it 3.5, is it 4.5
(15:17):
stars?
Like, where do I want to go?
And like there's some likeaccuracy to it.
But for a job, what do you have?
You have a resume that peoplelie on.
And so that's a big another bigpart of what we're doing is that
as our workers go out and work,our clients are able to rate
them on a five-star scale.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
Yeah, I was wondering where you're going to
succeed because uh like howpeople take pride in what
they're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
Exactly.
They take pride in what they'redoing.
And then what happened?
The beautiful part about this isthat the people that get rated
really, really well, they getthe five stars.
That's one component.
The other part that goes intoour system is how do they do
they show up late?
Do they cancel their shifts lastminute?
Um, are they a consistentworker?
I how often do they work?
And so all of a sudden, everytime when when a when a when a
(16:06):
business goes on and says, hey,I need help, we actually
prioritize the workers that aregoing to get that work based on
who's the best, right?
So the people that are the mostconsistent that don't know show,
that have good five-starratings, those are the ones that
get prioritized from the offers.
And so you start to play thisout over like a long period of
time and more and more data.
And the idea is could we live ina world where you don't even
(16:30):
need to interview anyoneanymore?
If I've got a bunch of five-starrated workers and I can see
their rating, and by the way, Ican see, hey, they've worked at
this company and this companyand this company down the street
that are all competitors ofmine, and they're rated five
stars.
Do I even need to interviewthem?
Like they've already done aworking interview for one of my
competitors for six months.
I can just hire them onfull-time right off the bat.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
That's pretty cool.
I don't see anything wrong withthat.
I mean, it's uh if anybody Imean, my dad, he works for uh
Ship.
He's retired and he he likes towork there, set his own hours
and everything.
Um and he he starts starting itup and he says, I gotta get a
good rating.
And he kept going at it andgoing at it, and now he's got a
great rating, and he sits backand relaxed and picks and
(17:16):
chooses which one he wants andwhat he wants to do is relaxing
for him, you know.
But he get out of the house andget a little exercise.
So yeah, I was you know, I gotto looking at that, and I'm
like, hey, that's uh that's agood thing for him.
Um I can see it being a goodfit.
And uh I think this will be alsothe same for a lot of young ones
out there that are struggling toget noticed, and you know, they
(17:37):
maybe look get overlooked, butyet, hey, their numbers speak
for themselves, so that'sawesome.
Yeah, and and you know what?
SPEAKER_00 (17:45):
Like the the thing is that the the Gen Z and people
that are you know just enteringthe workforce right now, um,
their expectations.
I'm a m I'm a millennial, Idon't know, I don't know what
you what you are, but like umgetting older every day.
Getting older every day, yeah,man.
Um, the expectations is that Ishould have more flexibility in
(18:07):
the way that I work and when Iwork and how I work and where I
want to work.
And so the idea of like uh, youknow, the old Monday through
Friday, nine to five or whateverit is, is not really the
expectations of the workforceanymore.
And so they want to be able topick and choose their schedule.
And they, they, you know, rightor wrong, they value a different
work-life balance than how a lotof people that are of jet
(18:30):
different generations mightmight think of it.
And and so I think forbusinesses, meeting workers
where they are and saying, hey,you know what, maybe they don't
want this same schedule.
Maybe I need to be able to offerthem a little bit more
flexibility.
At the end of the day, like, ifyou're having a hard time
finding talent, why would younot think about changing things
up a little bit and offering alittle bit more flexibility in
(18:53):
the way that you're approachingyour scheduling?
Uh, because that's how you'reultimately going to be able to
find these other people thateither are not applying for you
or are working for you and thenturning over really quickly
because I realize that theydon't like this type of really
structured approach to theirschedule.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
Yeah, it's huge.
I mean, you always hear thecommercial, uh, you know, they
use this platform, I won't sayany name, but it's like finding
a needle in the haystack.
This is the quickest way to doit.
And I was like, man, that soundsexhausting.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
So yeah, I I'm rooting for it.
I hope it works.
Um, maybe one day you'll see itfor drivers.
Um, we try really hard to begood drivers out there, and
there's a lot of bad actors inthe industry, and and you're
like, man, they just ruined itfor the rest of us.
So it's good when drivers do agreat job uh when they try the
hardest and pay attention.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
Yeah, we don't we don't currently work, uh we
don't supply drivers right now.
Um, and the reason is becauselike if we do something, we want
to do it right.
And there's just a huge amountof compliance that goes into
being able to supply to to youknow, supply to our clients
through with drivers.
Uh so we don't do that, but it'sdefinitely been something that
we've looked at because we thinkthere's, I mean, there's a huge
amount of opportunity in it.
(20:00):
And um, I think that theindustry overall is is pretty
ripe for change because thereare there's logistically so many
challenges in having like theright person in the right place
at the right time with the righttype of truck to be able to to
take their the the the goodswherever they might need to go.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
Yeah, and how does that person respond to change or
learning something new?
Um, it looks like they got thismany jobs that they've been able
to adapt to, so they must theymight be able to get it done.
You know, yeah.
It's awesome.
So when the holiday surge andpeak season, there's a strategy
I'm sure that gets implementedevery December or every time a
holiday comes up, there's a peakin the sales, uh, it turns into
(20:38):
chaos.
So what's the first warning signthat a company's workforce isn't
ready for peak season?
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
Uh first warning sign that a company's workforce
is not ready for peak season ishonestly when we ask them for
their peak season forecast andthey don't know.
Um the second one, I mean,that's the easy answer.
The second one is uh, and thisisn't a bad thing.
This is something we've actuallyhad a lot of success with is we
actually go to a lot of clientsand they'll send us their
(21:05):
forecast or whatever, and we'llactually tell them, hey, we
actually think that our forecastis more accurate because we have
so much data from historicaltrends and usage that we're
actually able to predict a lotof the times better than they
are.
Because a lot of times they'lljust look at like what's what
are their clients telling them.
Um, you know, and and theirclients might not be super
accurate about the way they'relooking at things.
(21:26):
And so where we find a lot ofsuccess is saying, hey, let's
look at what happened last year.
And, you know, as long as therehaven't been any big changes
last year and the year before,we're able to actually um we're
actually able to predict quiteaccurately.
So we have a couple of clientswhere they send us their
forecast and we actually send itback to them and you say,
actually, we think that this isa more accurate number for you.
And and a lot of the times itproves out that our our
forecasts are more accurate.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
Nice.
You know, the more you dosomething, the better you get.
What do you think the industryuh has a problem with when they
rely too much on full-timeworkers and burnout starts to
arise uh instead of uh buildingthat flexibility within their
workforce?
What would you say uh can helpthem?
SPEAKER_00 (22:02):
Uh I I think that the the biggest thing is
understand there does need to bea balance.
Um, you know, you've got yourpermanent and your full-time
workers, and a lot of the timespeople will walk into it and
say, hey, we know we're gonnahave like mandatory overtime in
November and December.
And like on one side of it,yeah, I'm sure the workforce at
certain times really appreciatesbeing able to get overtime, but
(22:24):
that's again not for everyone.
And so you need to really beable to balance, you know, are
we offering or are we mandating?
Because anytime you're gonnamandate something to a
workforce, you're gonna havepeople that are gonna be
unhappy.
You're gonna have a higher riskof turnover.
And and this is the last, thelast time that you can, or the
(22:45):
sorry, the worst time of theyear that you can have turnover.
And so it's really important.
Like if you go and say, well,we're just gonna do mandatory
overtime to be able to deal witha lot of this.
Is that really worthwhile?
Is that really what you want todo?
Because you're gonna have peoplethat are gonna be unhappy.
A lot of companies will alsosay, well, instead of mandatory
overtime, you know, organizersare gonna hire a bunch of extra
people.
Well, that's fine.
(23:05):
But think about the cost in likerecruiting and interviewing and
onboarding and offering thembenefits to know you're gonna
let them go in three months,anyways.
Like that's the whole idea ofwhy you have temporary staffing
is why don't you just say, hey,someone else is gonna be able to
do this and they're gonna beable to do it better.
And by the way, what we do isagain, you think about this like
five-star rating.
These workers work for youduring peak, but then I have a
(23:26):
lot of clients that don't run ona normal peak.
So then when January hits andthat demand goes down, I can
then redeploy those workerselsewhere and have them go work
somewhere else.
So for me, it's worth aninvestment of onboarding someone
because I know that I'm not justgonna have them for three
months.
If we do a good job and we doretain them, we're actually
gonna be able to retain them fora longer period of time.
(23:47):
So, you know, whereas a normalbusiness, I only need them for
three months and then they'regone.
And so that's where I think it'sreally important to like really
be thoughtful about is the juiceworth the squeeze sometimes of
like, you know, doing it all onyour own as opposed to saying,
hey, there's a release valve.
By the way, and here's the otherthing is like, you know, if I'm
gonna increase my headcount by20, 30, 35%, I need to hire
(24:09):
recruiters.
Like, how am I gonna do that?
Like, you know, like you don'thave recruiters growing on
trees, right?
So how are you actually gonna beable to bring people on to then
do the work to bring the peopleon?
And so that's a big part of uhof what we educate clients on,
is like, really, what are youtrying to get out of this?
And what's the best financialand business decision that
you're looking for as you're asyou're kind of doing the the
(24:31):
planning for peak?
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
Yeah, a lot of times you exert yourself, try to save
money with uh a lot of uheffort, but you end up spending
more money because uh you didn'task for help or getting more
stress or taking on more umheadache.
You know, what do you want tohow much of that do we need
these days?
We got enough of that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Yeah.
I mean, at the end of the day,like, you know, if if if you're
a 3PL, like your your secretsauce is like you've got a way
of getting points or goods frompoint A to point B faster and
more efficiently and with betterthroughput than anyone else.
You're not in the staffing game,right?
So like just like just like, youknow, whoever has outsourced
(25:16):
their 3PL to you, you shouldthink about outsourcing some of
your processes to someone who'sjust better at it, right?
Just like we outsource ourtrucking to someone, just like
we outsource our manufacturing,like you should outsource some
of your staffing to people thatare just frankly better at it
and more experienced.
Because you don't want to like,you don't want to be focused on
something like at the end of theday, like look at your mission
(25:37):
statement.
Does it say hire and retain thebest um ad hoc peak talent in
the world?
No, that's probably not what'sin your mission statement.
So focus on what you do best andlet the professionals focus on
what they do best as well.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
So looking at Outlook, you know, it looks like
tariffs aren't going awayanytime soon.
Uh labor shortages are alwaysgoing to be a struggle, seems
like.
So we would love for things toget easier.
Um, but what would you say thatcan help a company not get
crushed by these forces?
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
Man, if I knew that answer, I'd be sitting on a
beach somewhere, wouldn't I?
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
Uh dart, see what tell me.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:15):
There's so there's so much uncertainty right now.
Um so I'll here's what I'll do.
I'll tell you what I like.
I don't have the answer, but I Ido think that we have we have a
lot of customers actually uhthat have had a lot of success
growing actually over the courseof the last couple of years, and
especially even like during thistariff period.
(26:37):
So I'll tell you what I whatbecause I asked them the same
question.
I'm like, how are you guys doingit?
And um their answers are prettysimple.
It's A, uh don't try to reinventthe wheel.
Stick to your cores and yourfundamentals and just do what
you do really, really well.
Because that's how you can startto win business from your
competitors who are starting.
The other thing that I think wasreally interesting is that they
(26:58):
all were willing to do twothings.
Number one, they were willing tofire bad clients.
Right.
So they had people that werepaying them, right?
Their clients.
And if they weren't goodclients, they would go to them
and they would say, Hey, wedon't think that this is a good
fit.
This this business relationshipis a good fit.
(27:18):
So they were willing to walkaway because what they did is
they realized what is a good fitand what type of customer or
client or process or product wasa really good fit for their
business, and they doubled downon that.
So they identified who is ourideal customer.
And let's run really, reallyhard at delivering an amazing
service to our ideal customer,as opposed to trying to fit a
(27:40):
square peg in a round hole.
Because as these tariffs and asthese nations and as these
different kind of economicimpacts happen, you need
everyone to be as efficient aspossible.
And so if you've got a clientthat's like not a great one, but
you just kind of like have keptthem along and think about like
how much more resource you'rehaving to dedicate to that one
(28:01):
client than to the good ones,the ones that like, and it's not
the a good or bad, it's justlike to the clients that fit the
type of business model that youhave.
And so that you would you, as Italk to these customers, say,
yeah, we would spend anoutsourced outsized amount of
time on these clients that justweren't a good fit for our
business.
Now they were bad, but just likefor the type of business we had,
they weren't a good fit for it.
(28:23):
So being willing in certaincircum circumstances to have a
conversation, renegotiate, orwalk away from those ones, and
then just run really hard at theones that, okay, we know that
this type of customer, business,client, service, whatever, we
can really do better than anyoneelse.
And if you run towards them,then all of a sudden you're able
to start to pick up and youstart to realize like, what's my
(28:44):
niche?
Well, like, where can we reallymake a really positive impact to
organizations?
That's where I think people havehad a lot of success, is just
like not just stagnating, butlike really focusing on what
you're good at.
SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
I like that.
I really do.
It's uh you just you just haveto follow through on it.
And I think a lot of customerswill pick up on that, that they
value certain things, and thenit will translate to just good
good care of the customer.
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
I think that's gonna resonate well because then they
will remember it.
You got a great experience, andsomebody, you know, you know
that your money has value whereyou spent it.
So that's all that's all goodeducation for a lot of people
out there.
I think we just need to keepspreading that word.
Uh as long as we follow throughon it, that plan, I think it's
gonna I think that's a good one.
I think he hits bullseye.
Uh so and AI is gonna help themrun faster too.
(29:31):
So it may sound like a big thingto take on.
I also have many smallbusinesses um been able to get
through the AI transition andnot feel overwhelmed.
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
Uh what I think is really important is that you
know, you see all these thingsall over the internet about AI
and how everyone's using AI.
And um I think that the way thatyou can start to think about AI
right now is that it doesn'tneed to be zero to a hundred.
It's like, how can you startusing it to be a little bit more
(30:03):
efficient?
How can you, you know, step onein logistics is like, are you
using AI to map out your routes?
Uh, right?
Like, like there's and that'sjust like the very beginning.
There's all of a sudden allthese different use cases you
can use it for.
And it doesn't need to be thatlike, you know, people talk
about like, oh, there's gonna bea billion-dollar company that
only has one person and theyjust use AI for everything.
(30:23):
Like, yeah, maybe that'llhappen.
It's not happening this year,that's for sure.
And and quite frankly, I thinkthat the big change with AI is
that AI is just it'sfoundationally impact every
single business, right?
Like every single business isgonna be impacted by it, just
like every single business wasimpacted by the internet, and
some more than others.
(30:44):
But like quite frankly, you'realways gonna have to have
products shipped from point A topoint B.
So it's and and it's not thatlike it's not that humans are
gonna completely leave theprocess, but how can you use AI
to make yourself more efficient?
In the hiring game, how can youuse it to help you go through
resumes more quickly from the150 resumes you gotten to, hey,
I AI, tell me what are the top10 that I should really be
(31:07):
looking at.
You know, how can you use AI tobe able to more effectively
allow you to cost out and doyour forecasting or whatever it
might be?
Like it doesn't need to be anall or nothing, but just start
using it.
Because if you don't start usingit, you're just kind of you're
you're eventually gonna get leftbehind.
And so it's not you don't youdon't need to like revolutionize
every business practice that youhave right now, but like it's
(31:29):
about building the musclememory.
Like, I don't know if you ever,if you ever played sports, but
you know, it's it's a greatanalogy.
It's like you didn't, you know,you've heard about like Malcolm
Gladwell 10,000 hour rule.
Like you become a pro when youjust practice, practice,
practice for 10,000 hours orsomething.
That's the idea, is you justneed to start practicing at AI
and then you'll start to realizewhere you can actually use it
for a benefit.
SPEAKER_01 (31:50):
Nice.
I like um as long as the humanfactor isn't eliminated
altogether, I think we're gonnacome out okay.
I think uh not to sound old, butwhen uh I think it was shortly
after 9-11, a lot of jobsstarted uh companies started
downsizing a little bit andpeople would take on extra work.
So let's say you would have aperson in the office that did a
(32:11):
task, and now they had to dothree other tasks, and they got
used to it.
And then it after a while theeconomy went through the housing
crash and the company scaledback a little more, say, hey,
can you do more?
Can you do more?
And they're like, okay, I cantake on more.
Now you feel like you're doingsix different things.
And so I'm thinking maybe AI isgonna be that element that would
(32:32):
kind of bring down thattemperature, bring it down that
person that was doing so much.
They got really good at it.
That's why they're still at thatjob.
But now they can use theartificial intelligence to make
that job more manageable, moresustainable, um, instead of that
burnout thing that we keeprunning into as humans.
So that I think that would begreat if uh we as humans saw
(32:54):
that path uh down the road,because you know, you kind of
think, hey, where would I be inthe next five, ten years?
It could be a really good place.
SPEAKER_00 (33:02):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (33:02):
Gotta keep thinking positive.
And like the the service thatyou guys provide, a lot of
companies out there trying tofigure out what do we do to keep
people happy.
Um, well, stop burning outcustomers, burning out the
employees, excuse me.
It's just provide that relief.
Like you said, be there like youguys can hit that relief and be
that that person for them, youknow, that that company for them
(33:23):
that they can work with to getthat that work done.
So yeah, great job.
Uh that's awesome.
Um, on a personal level, what doyou see?
It all going staffing or evenanything like that within the
next 10 with your experience, 10to maybe five to 10 years from
now?
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (33:41):
Yeah, so the staffing industry is in and of
itself, um, it hasn't been, Iguess to like if to like to use
like a very basic phrase, ithasn't been um Amazon's, it
hasn't been Uberized yet.
Like it is still a very, very,very manual, manual process.
(34:03):
Um, and there are still likelots of brick and mortar
branches and lots of whiteboardsand lots of little ledgers and
lots of mechanical pencils.
And there's nothing uhinherently wrong with that, but
there's a huge amount ofefficiency that we're not taking
advantage of in the staffingindustry.
The redeployment rate, like Iwas telling you, of uh a worker
working for multiple businessesthrough one staffing agency is
(34:28):
really low.
Some in at some staffingcompanies is as low as like
seven or eight percent.
So that means that like lessthan 10% of the time is a worker
working for multiple customers,right?
Now I'm telling you about likethis five star rating and being
able to redeploy and how coolthat is.
Um, and so I think those, likethose are the areas where like
eventually at some point, likethe the industry is gonna wise
(34:50):
up to the fact that, hey, weneed to use technology to be
able to drive better outcomesfor clients and ultimately for
the job seekers.
And I think that's a reallyimportant part is that if you
can treat the job seekers justas well as you treat the
clients, you're ultimately gonnahave a more successful workforce
that's gonna be better retainedand ultimately you're gonna have
(35:10):
a beautiful flywheel, or thenyou're gonna have happier
clients.
And I think that's a reallyimportant part of it is like
raising the value and the leveland the importance of the worker
and what they want and whattheir demands are because as
they're as they're evolving,it's really important.
And then how can you usetechnology to just build more
efficiencies, remove thefriction in people getting work?
I think that's really wherewhere the industry is going.
SPEAKER_01 (35:33):
Well, well, I got you here.
Um, it's your personal angle.
I mean, you got a lot of greatinsight, like um, like how you
guys are doing things overthere.
Um, so I'm really glad to haveyou on the show.
And you've led a lot of, youknow, with leadership lessons,
probably because of laborshortages or overcoming crisis.
There's rapid change that you'veseen to happen.
Um, what's the hardestleadership lesson you've learned
(35:57):
that maybe a trucker can learnfrom that's running their own
business that they can relateto?
SPEAKER_00 (36:03):
I think that there's there's a book um by a guy named
John C.
Maxwell, and it's called The 21Indisputable Laws of Leadership.
The 21 Indisputable Laws ofLeadership.
It's a great book.
Uh it's a bit long, but reallygood insights.
And I'd say the one that I thinkis the most impactful for me is
(36:26):
the law of legacy.
And what he means by that is youshould be able to disappear
tomorrow and have your team pickup and be able to continue to
run things.
I think too often in leadership,people feel like they have to
almost like create their valueand make sure that they're an
(36:49):
indispensable part and everydecision needs to be run by
them.
And I think that that sometimesis done a little bit out of like
the fear of like, well, if Iempower people too much, then
what's my worth?
Like, why even have me around?
But the idea of that is that theidea behind the law of legacy is
(37:09):
that if you're developing yourteam, if you're investing in
your team, if you're lettingyour team and you're empowering
your team so much that they feellike they can make the right
decisions.
And by the way, sometimesthey're gonna make the right
ones and sometimes they're gonnamake the wrong ones.
But it's a journey and it'sabout learning.
If you can empower people likethat, then what that does is
that frees up time for you toactually be a leader and point
the business in the rightdirection and help to understand
(37:32):
and put together what thestrategy is gonna be longer term
as opposed to having to be inthe weeds.
Empower the people that you'vehired to lead people to actually
do that.
And you will build your legacyas someone who is empowering,
who is a transformationalleader.
Um, and that will free up yourtime to be able to truly be able
(37:52):
to do things that are gonnabetter the business, improve the
business, drive the business indirections no one ever thought
it could go.
But you can't do that if you'realways focused on micromanaging
the people that that work foryou.
SPEAKER_01 (38:04):
Nice.
Deliver the relief you need, uh,deliver the relief that your
workers, your staff, your youknow, your team that they need,
um, instead of keeping thatpressure on and making people
feel like you know they cannever let it let up, you know.
So eventually you gotta yougotta let your foot off the
accelerator.
And uh, you know, you gottacoast for a little bit and make
(38:25):
sure everything seems rightbecause then you can have that
that far-sighted vision that youneed for your business to keep
growing.
SPEAKER_00 (38:31):
Exactly.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (38:32):
So it's gonna have to bumper ahead of you.
So great, great advice.
Uh, I like that.
And it's a good read.
Um, I'll put that in the notesfor anybody that's looking for
that book so they can get thatknowledge too.
Thanks, James.
Um, it's definitely been aneye-opener for staffing and for
helping people get their theirwork done out there because it
can be difficult to not burn outor crouch in onto that bottom
(38:57):
line.
You know, people want to keepthat bottom line going,
especially when it comes to thepeak season.
So for truckers who know whatwhat that's like, or for
truckers who are without peoplein the right place or freight
that doesn't move, um, hey,reach out to Indeed Flex.
Uh they can help you guys out.
So it's one of the the newthings that we can do is uh get
(39:18):
help with not just AI, but alsowith that relief when it comes
to staffing.
So any words of wisdom you wantto leave before we go?
I I think you've kind of hit alot of the main points.
Um I'm sure people still havestruggles out there, but uh they
can always reach out for more.
SPEAKER_00 (39:32):
Yeah, I would say uh, you know, keep keep keep on
trucking.
SPEAKER_01 (39:37):
Exactly.
That's it.
So for the listeners out therewho want to connect and learn
more about Indeed Flex, where'sthe best place for them to reach
you or point of contact forIndeepflex?
SPEAKER_00 (39:48):
Head to indeedflex.com and you can reach
out to us right there.
SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
Awesome.
Thanks again for joining us,James.
And uh for your audience outthere, remember trucking isn't
always just about movingfreight.
It's about adapting fast,building resilience, and finding
smarter ways to deliver.
I'm trucking Ray, and that's thelift.
Welcome back to That's Delivered Podcast.
I'm your host, Trucking Ray, andtoday we're diving into
something that every truckingand logistics company is feeling
right now the cost pressure.
Tariffs are climbing, holidaysurge is coming, and margins are
tighter than ever.
My guest is James Terry, thehead of U.S.
Revenue at Index Flex.
He knows the struggle firsthand.
With over 15 years of staffingand HR leadership, including
(00:24):
more than a decade at ADP, Jamesis helping companies harness
AI-powered staffing to scalequickly, cut costs, and keep
goods moving when demand spikes.
And here's why it matters intrucking.
For us, drivers can't deliverfreight if warehouses are
understaffed or lows can't move,if ships go unfilled, and
companies can't survive ifovertime and burnout eat up the
(00:46):
bottom line.
And James is going to show ushow to fix that.
All right, James, welcome to theshow.
Glad to have you on.
How are you doing?
Thanks.
I'm great, Ray.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
Thanks for having me.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Awesome.
Awesome.
That's great.
You know, times are hard rightnow.
It looks like you're helping outa lot of companies.
Um take care of that bottomline.
Um, what's uh something thatyou've worked on, some of the
some of the things that you'vehelped out?
I know you've been with ADP anduh Index Flex.
Uh what's one lesson have youlearned over the years or to
help shape how companies canmanage today?
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
Yeah, so uh I would say one lesson I've learned over
the years, especially as itcomes to logistics and freight,
uh trucking, whatnot, is thatuh, well, two things really.
First of all, yesterday's bestis not good enough for today.
Um the second thing is that uhyou have to live in a world and
be appreciative of the factthere's constant change in this
(01:39):
industry and you always need tobe willing to move on a dime.
And uh, you know, sometimes thebest laid plans are great, but
you know, when you get that lastminute load that comes in, or
all of a sudden like the SuezCanal gets blocked, or whatever
it might be, there's a lot ofchanges and you need to be able
to operate with a fair amount ofnimbleness within your business
to be able to ensure that you'redelivering product to your
(02:01):
customers.
It's not just about having likea really strong operational
plan, but it's, you know, I'dsay like ultimately in the
service industry, and that'swhat indeed flex, what we are,
we we provide labor as aservice.
Um, in trucking, you providetransport as a service.
Um, it's not about whether ornot mistakes are going to be
made and things are not gonna gowell.
(02:21):
That's inevitable, right?
That always happens.
You kind of walk into it knowingthat.
It's about how quickly can youimprove, make changes, and uh
solve the problem quickly.
And I think that's one of thethings that really resonates
with me.
And one of the things that I'veI've I've always taken with my
team is it's not about making amistake, it's about how do you
fix that and how do you fix itquickly so that it it does not
create operational burden.
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
Wow.
Uh what makes the space a littleharder or more unique than
others?
Uh, maybe certain companies liketrucking or logistics, uh, what
what do you think is uh mostchallenging?
SPEAKER_00 (02:53):
Yeah, so so I'd say that the the biggest challenge
that we have is that, you know,in in trucking or in logistics,
you're kind of at the very, veryend of the supply chain.
But if you think about like youneed to design a good or
service, and then you need to goand manufacture it, and then you
need to ship it, and then youneed to ship it to a warehouse
(03:14):
or distribution center.
And then you kind of need tomake sure it actually gets, you
know, if you're taking theexample of like delivering
something to someone's house,they need to make sure it gets
to that person's house.
And like there are so manyplaces along the way where
something can happen that'sunplanned.
And because of that, what endsup happening in the industry is
there's a huge amount of unknownand and questions.
(03:36):
Like we had a client, you know,as as we all know, it's early
October right now.
I'm sure this went when thisairs, it'll probably be just
entering the height of the peakseason for a lot of people in
our industry.
And we just had a client wholiterally came to us and they
said, Hey, you know what?
Uh, it turns out we thought thatour demand was gonna look like
this.
Turns out that, like overall,when you look at Q4 of the year,
October, November, December,it's gonna be the same.
(03:58):
It's gonna be what we thought itwas, but it's gonna be a lot
smaller in October and we'regonna need to ram it all into
November and December.
Right.
And you need to be willing toget those emails and have those
conversations and thatcommunication, be able to like
really turn on a dime because,you know, at the end of the day,
like when we we as at IndeedFlex, we provide labor as a
service and you know, it'stemporary staffing.
(04:20):
And so people typically like youwant to fill all of your work
with your permanent employees,with your permanent workforce.
And they come to temporary laboras their contingency.
And so you need to be faster andquicker and providing better
quality, more consistent staffthan they can do on their own.
And so it's really important tomake sure that like when they
pull that release valve, thatrelease valve is us.
(04:41):
And so, you know, if if all of asudden we're not able to provide
the staff or we're not able toprovide enough people or the
quality of people they need,then all of a sudden that just
doesn't have a downstream effecton us and our relationship with
them.
But now they're having to pickup the phone and call their
clients and say, hey, we're notable to get this package out the
door.
We're not able to help youmaintain your SLAs or your
delivery commitments with yourcustomers.
(05:03):
And so it just becomes really,really critical.
Like we're kind of the line ofdefense, the last line of
defense for a lot of businesses.
And it's so critical, especiallyright now, coming into this peak
period of the year, that likeeveryone needs to be operating
on full, on, you know, on inoverdrive, really to make sure
that we're able to deliver to alot of these like very, very
last-minute needs that customershave.
SPEAKER_01 (05:21):
Wow.
Yeah, deliver those needs.
I mean, that's huge.
Um, you guys are doing a greatservice.
That's nice that you're also uhable to do that.
I mean, and to speak on it andlet other people know that you
provide it.
So how did you get into thisspace?
How did you get into uh whereyou're at today?
Uh you got a little backgroundstory you want to share with the
listeners?
unknown (05:38):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:38):
So I I started, as you'd mentioned, I started uh my
career at at ADP, and that's apayroll company, um, largest
payroll company in the world,and uh and and really enjoyed
that and and enjoyed kind of,you know, you call that like
human capital management, the HRindustry.
Um and then when I was lookingat at other options, um, one of
(05:58):
the things that really uh thatreally appealed to me about
Indeed Flex was the concept thatthey're trying to flip the
temporary staffing marketcompletely on its head.
So here's what I mean by that,Ray's.
Typically, I don't know if I'msure a lot of the listeners on
this call have had a temp job inthe past, worked in a warehouse,
worked as a server or banquetstaff or concessions, clerical
(06:20):
role, right?
Temporary staffing is all overthe place.
It's a hundreds of billions ofdollar industry in the US.
What typically happens intemporary staffing is a worker
applies for a job, maybe walksinto a brick and mortar branch
in a strip mall or something,and they say, Hey, I need a job.
The person at this temporarystaffing organization goes in
and looks at it and says, Okay,well, you know what?
(06:41):
We have a client that needssomeone in this location or
doing this job or whatever thisshift is.
And you get assigned somewhere.
You don't really have choice.
You don't have control over it.
And we found at Indeed Flex thatactually, if you flip it on its
head and you actually givecontrol and choice to the job
seeker, you end up gettingbetter results.
So actually, like the genesisstory of what happened and how
(07:03):
Indeed Flex was founded was wehad uh one of uh one of our
founders was actually living inthe UK and going to college, and
he found out that like he workedat a staffing firm.
And they would always have himdrive out to these really,
really, really rural locationsto do like, you know, picture
like Downton Abbey, right?
Beautiful like wedding at thisamazing estate.
(07:25):
And, you know, it sounds great.
But they would have him driveout there, it was 20, 30
minutes, and they realized hehad a car.
And so they would say, Hey,Jack, would you mind maybe
picking up some people on theway and taking them out too?
And so all of a sudden he waslike carpooling people out,
picking them up, dropping themoff.
And he referred to one of hisbuddies who was also a bartender
to the same same staffingagency.
Well, his buddy didn't have acar, so his buddy picked up all
(07:45):
the jobs that were local, rightdown the street, doing
bartending or whatever.
And he's like, wait a second,this isn't fair.
The only reason I'm I'm gettingthese jobs that are way out in
the middle of nowhere in Podunkis because I got a car.
And he's like, I should be ableto choose.
And so that's really where thegenesis of Indeed Flex was like,
how can you give people offersand you say, hey, here are the
four, five, six, seven differentopportunities you have.
(08:08):
Maybe it is a temp-to-permassignment, maybe it's ad hoc,
maybe it's close by, maybe it'sfar away, the pay rate might be
higher, the payment pay ratemight be lower.
But let people choose where andhow and when they want to work.
And if you do that, you're gonnaget a workforce that's more
engaged, more happy, moreexcited, that's more consistent.
Because, you know, while whilegetting the highest pay is the
(08:31):
most important, if I can get ajob for 20 bucks an hour, but I
have to work five days a week,but every Wednesday I have to
take ground out of the doctor,potentially I can't pick up that
job.
Maybe I'd rather work somethingthat's a dollar to less an hour,
but I have more flexibility inmy schedule, or maybe it's
closer to where I live so Idon't have to spend as much on
public transportation.
And so by giving people thatcontrol and choice, they pick up
(08:53):
the jobs that they want.
And when, believe it or not,right, when people do work that
they want to do, they actuallystay longer and do a better job
at it.
And so that's really kind of howwe how we uh came about.
SPEAKER_01 (09:04):
That's awesome.
Yeah, and you know, and givingthat respect back to the um to
the worker is huge.
Um, it it goes a long way.
It's people remember that.
I do remember all of my uh tempjobs.
I've had them too.
So they're a necessary thing,you know.
Um, how can someone get in touchwith you guys if they're a
worker and they want to do more?
SPEAKER_00 (09:23):
Yeah, I mean, you just go to indeedflex.com.
Um, it's I mean, the idea iswe've tried to make it super
easy.
The idea is it is our our goalis it's as easy as pressing a
button to get a job.
And literally you go and youapply for the job, you you see
all the jobs that are open.
Um, you can go through aninterview typically the same
day, really on demand.
You can actually potentiallyapply for the job or apply to to
(09:45):
be onboarded onto Indeed Flexand immediately going into an
interview.
Um, and our goal is hey, youshould be able to download this,
the app right now and hopefullystart work tomorrow.
Um and and you think about that,right?
Like think about how much of agame changer that is for people
to be able to go and start worktomorrow somewhere.
And by the way, Ray, you knowwhat?
(10:06):
And then we also have a systemcalled instant pay, which means
you can get paid that same day.
So you can go, you can besitting there on your couch
right now and not have a job andbe have money in the bank
tomorrow afternoon after yourshift is over.
And you think about how much theworld has evolved in the last
15, 20 years to allow people todo that, right?
Think about 20 years ago, likeyou're pulling out the yellow
(10:26):
pages or right, like theclassified section in the
newspaper and trying to findsomething.
You're talking two, three weeksdown the line before you can get
something.
Now you've reduced friction suchyou can go and find a job
tomorrow.
unknown (10:36):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (10:37):
That is amazing.
Um what does it look like?
Uh is there a brick and mortarbuilding?
This is all virtual.
Uh most of the interviews aredone online.
SPEAKER_00 (10:45):
Yeah, most of the interviews are done online.
Um, you can do uh your I-9verification is all done
virtually as well.
Um, and and that's really theidea.
Is like, here's the thing isthat the best workers, the best
people are the ones that aregonna get snapped up the
quickest.
And so our goal is like, how canwe make it as easy as possible
for people to get a job?
So we do have a couple of likebrick and mortar locations, but
(11:08):
actually it's like our kind ofour goal is like, why?
Like, why even have them?
Like if you can make it so easy,you don't even need it.
We definitely do job fairs andall that to try to get our name
out there and a lot of likelocal outreach and community
engagement.
But ultimately the goal is like,hey, why not allow someone to be
able to download the app and goget a job tomorrow without
having to, you know, get up offtheir couch?
SPEAKER_01 (11:29):
That's amazing.
Um, I feel the same way aboutreceipts.
I'm like, why do I get the papercopy?
I don't need that.
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
Right, exactly.
Yeah.
I was I was somewhere yesterday.
They're like, Do you want aprinted receipt or do you want
it emailed?
And I'm like, just send it to mein email.
And they're like, okay, cool.
And then they email, but theyalso print it out.
It's like it's such a habit,right?
It's like, and that's I think abig part of the evolution of the
industry.
And you talk about AI and youtalk about like these things
we're discussing with likegetting a job, and like people
are like tiptoeing their wayinto this new way of working.
(11:59):
Um, but they still want to giveyou the paper receipt because
there's there, it feels like itfeels different.
But in reality, like we kind ofall have to get with the program
and be willing to kind of takethat leap of faith.
SPEAKER_01 (12:09):
Yeah, that's a small example to paint the bigger
picture of what's really goingon.
I mean, AI is definitelyshaping, reshaping things for
the workforce, um, especiallyfor things that happen
instantaneously.
Um this generation, too, theywant instant gratification.
So I'm gonna give it to them,right?
So they can go to work and makethose things happen.
Is this in every state or uh howbig is uh your Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:32):
We're we're in just about every state.
Um we are.
And and actually the thing thatyou mentioned around AI, um
we've actually uh most of ourinterviews, a lot of our
interviews are actually donethrough AI.
So we actually have an AI agentthat does the interview.
And uh we started about six orseven months ago.
And do you know what?
Um our recruiter productivityhas skyrocketed.
(12:55):
On average, our recruiters wentfrom doing about 15 to now
they're able to do about 80because we still have recruiters
like look at all the interviewsto validate them.
But you know what the reallyinteresting part is, and this is
I think where like thatevolution you're talking about
is coming in, is that um uh oneof our one of uh an industry
analyst group just ran a surveyand they found that uh 88% of
(13:17):
job seekers actually find an AIinterview as good as, if not
better than, a real recruiterinterview.
So people like it.
And it's because A, there's nobias anymore, right?
Like, you know, like AI is notgonna be biased against you
because of how you look or whatyour background is or whatever.
(13:37):
It's gonna actually look at theanswers that you answered.
Um, and the other really greatpart about it, right, is that
like, think about it.
I'm able to do an AI interviewin the middle of the night.
Like maybe I have a night shiftand maybe I get off at 5 a.m.
and I want to do my interviewthen.
Like AI's always awake, right?
With another interview liveperson.
I got to wait until that personstarts their work and then play
(13:59):
phone tag with them.
And so there's a huge amount ofbenefits in it that that people
are only now starting to takeadvantage of.
SPEAKER_01 (14:06):
Yeah, there's no burnout.
Um a lot of interviews back toback to back to back.
I know it can be really hard ona supervisor or a manager
because they still have to gettheir regular work done and
still fill those positions.
And then someone turns aroundand they say, Wow, I'm gonna
leave.
And they're like, Wow, I justworked really hard to get that
guy or get that position filled,and now they're gone.
(14:29):
So that's huge.
And you guys also do a lot ofthat heavy lifting too.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
So Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And and another, another part ofkind of where we're going and
what we're trying to do is um,you know, like I forget the
exact number, but it'sdefinitely over 70%.
70% of people lie on theirresumes.
And so you think about it, andit's like, okay, well, you know,
the only way I have to actuallyvalidate who someone is outside
(14:55):
of the interview is what theyput on their resume.
Knowing like such a hugeproportion of people are lying
on their resumes, it's like,well, you know, what what can
you really trust?
But you think about it, and it'slike, hey, if you want to go out
to a nice dinner with uh yourboyfriend, girlfriend, husband,
wife, friend, whatever, you goonto Google Maps, you can see
all these reviews, right?
And you can kind of see like,okay, is it 3.5, is it 4.5
(15:17):
stars?
Like, where do I want to go?
And like there's some likeaccuracy to it.
But for a job, what do you have?
You have a resume that peoplelie on.
And so that's a big another bigpart of what we're doing is that
as our workers go out and work,our clients are able to rate
them on a five-star scale.
SPEAKER_01 (15:37):
Yeah, I was wondering where you're going to
succeed because uh like howpeople take pride in what
they're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (15:44):
Exactly.
They take pride in what they'redoing.
And then what happened?
The beautiful part about this isthat the people that get rated
really, really well, they getthe five stars.
That's one component.
The other part that goes intoour system is how do they do
they show up late?
Do they cancel their shifts lastminute?
Um, are they a consistentworker?
I how often do they work?
And so all of a sudden, everytime when when a when a when a
(16:06):
business goes on and says, hey,I need help, we actually
prioritize the workers that aregoing to get that work based on
who's the best, right?
So the people that are the mostconsistent that don't know show,
that have good five-starratings, those are the ones that
get prioritized from the offers.
And so you start to play thisout over like a long period of
time and more and more data.
And the idea is could we live ina world where you don't even
(16:30):
need to interview anyoneanymore?
If I've got a bunch of five-starrated workers and I can see
their rating, and by the way, Ican see, hey, they've worked at
this company and this companyand this company down the street
that are all competitors ofmine, and they're rated five
stars.
Do I even need to interviewthem?
Like they've already done aworking interview for one of my
competitors for six months.
I can just hire them onfull-time right off the bat.
SPEAKER_01 (16:53):
That's pretty cool.
I don't see anything wrong withthat.
I mean, it's uh if anybody Imean, my dad, he works for uh
Ship.
He's retired and he he likes towork there, set his own hours
and everything.
Um and he he starts starting itup and he says, I gotta get a
good rating.
And he kept going at it andgoing at it, and now he's got a
great rating, and he sits backand relaxed and picks and
(17:16):
chooses which one he wants andwhat he wants to do is relaxing
for him, you know.
But he get out of the house andget a little exercise.
So yeah, I was you know, I gotto looking at that, and I'm
like, hey, that's uh that's agood thing for him.
Um I can see it being a goodfit.
And uh I think this will be alsothe same for a lot of young ones
out there that are struggling toget noticed, and you know, they
(17:37):
maybe look get overlooked, butyet, hey, their numbers speak
for themselves, so that'sawesome.
Yeah, and and you know what?
SPEAKER_00 (17:45):
Like the the thing is that the the Gen Z and people
that are you know just enteringthe workforce right now, um,
their expectations.
I'm a m I'm a millennial, Idon't know, I don't know what
you what you are, but like umgetting older every day.
Getting older every day, yeah,man.
Um, the expectations is that Ishould have more flexibility in
(18:07):
the way that I work and when Iwork and how I work and where I
want to work.
And so the idea of like uh, youknow, the old Monday through
Friday, nine to five or whateverit is, is not really the
expectations of the workforceanymore.
And so they want to be able topick and choose their schedule.
And they, they, you know, rightor wrong, they value a different
work-life balance than how a lotof people that are of jet
(18:30):
different generations mightmight think of it.
And and so I think forbusinesses, meeting workers
where they are and saying, hey,you know what, maybe they don't
want this same schedule.
Maybe I need to be able to offerthem a little bit more
flexibility.
At the end of the day, like, ifyou're having a hard time
finding talent, why would younot think about changing things
up a little bit and offering alittle bit more flexibility in
(18:53):
the way that you're approachingyour scheduling?
Uh, because that's how you'reultimately going to be able to
find these other people thateither are not applying for you
or are working for you and thenturning over really quickly
because I realize that theydon't like this type of really
structured approach to theirschedule.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
Yeah, it's huge.
I mean, you always hear thecommercial, uh, you know, they
use this platform, I won't sayany name, but it's like finding
a needle in the haystack.
This is the quickest way to doit.
And I was like, man, that soundsexhausting.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (19:20):
So yeah, I I'm rooting for it.
I hope it works.
Um, maybe one day you'll see itfor drivers.
Um, we try really hard to begood drivers out there, and
there's a lot of bad actors inthe industry, and and you're
like, man, they just ruined itfor the rest of us.
So it's good when drivers do agreat job uh when they try the
hardest and pay attention.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
Yeah, we don't we don't currently work, uh we
don't supply drivers right now.
Um, and the reason is becauselike if we do something, we want
to do it right.
And there's just a huge amountof compliance that goes into
being able to supply to to youknow, supply to our clients
through with drivers.
Uh so we don't do that, but it'sdefinitely been something that
we've looked at because we thinkthere's, I mean, there's a huge
amount of opportunity in it.
(20:00):
And um, I think that theindustry overall is is pretty
ripe for change because thereare there's logistically so many
challenges in having like theright person in the right place
at the right time with the righttype of truck to be able to to
take their the the the goodswherever they might need to go.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
Yeah, and how does that person respond to change or
learning something new?
Um, it looks like they got thismany jobs that they've been able
to adapt to, so they must theymight be able to get it done.
You know, yeah.
It's awesome.
So when the holiday surge andpeak season, there's a strategy
I'm sure that gets implementedevery December or every time a
holiday comes up, there's a peakin the sales, uh, it turns into
(20:38):
chaos.
So what's the first warning signthat a company's workforce isn't
ready for peak season?
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (20:45):
Uh first warning sign that a company's workforce
is not ready for peak season ishonestly when we ask them for
their peak season forecast andthey don't know.
Um the second one, I mean,that's the easy answer.
The second one is uh, and thisisn't a bad thing.
This is something we've actuallyhad a lot of success with is we
actually go to a lot of clientsand they'll send us their
(21:05):
forecast or whatever, and we'llactually tell them, hey, we
actually think that our forecastis more accurate because we have
so much data from historicaltrends and usage that we're
actually able to predict a lotof the times better than they
are.
Because a lot of times they'lljust look at like what's what
are their clients telling them.
Um, you know, and and theirclients might not be super
accurate about the way they'relooking at things.
(21:26):
And so where we find a lot ofsuccess is saying, hey, let's
look at what happened last year.
And, you know, as long as therehaven't been any big changes
last year and the year before,we're able to actually um we're
actually able to predict quiteaccurately.
So we have a couple of clientswhere they send us their
forecast and we actually send itback to them and you say,
actually, we think that this isa more accurate number for you.
And and a lot of the times itproves out that our our
forecasts are more accurate.
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
Nice.
You know, the more you dosomething, the better you get.
What do you think the industryuh has a problem with when they
rely too much on full-timeworkers and burnout starts to
arise uh instead of uh buildingthat flexibility within their
workforce?
What would you say uh can helpthem?
SPEAKER_00 (22:02):
Uh I I think that the the biggest thing is
understand there does need to bea balance.
Um, you know, you've got yourpermanent and your full-time
workers, and a lot of the timespeople will walk into it and
say, hey, we know we're gonnahave like mandatory overtime in
November and December.
And like on one side of it,yeah, I'm sure the workforce at
certain times really appreciatesbeing able to get overtime, but
(22:24):
that's again not for everyone.
And so you need to really beable to balance, you know, are
we offering or are we mandating?
Because anytime you're gonnamandate something to a
workforce, you're gonna havepeople that are gonna be
unhappy.
You're gonna have a higher riskof turnover.
And and this is the last, thelast time that you can, or the
(22:45):
sorry, the worst time of theyear that you can have turnover.
And so it's really important.
Like if you go and say, well,we're just gonna do mandatory
overtime to be able to deal witha lot of this.
Is that really worthwhile?
Is that really what you want todo?
Because you're gonna have peoplethat are gonna be unhappy.
A lot of companies will alsosay, well, instead of mandatory
overtime, you know, organizersare gonna hire a bunch of extra
people.
Well, that's fine.
(23:05):
But think about the cost in likerecruiting and interviewing and
onboarding and offering thembenefits to know you're gonna
let them go in three months,anyways.
Like that's the whole idea ofwhy you have temporary staffing
is why don't you just say, hey,someone else is gonna be able to
do this and they're gonna beable to do it better.
And by the way, what we do isagain, you think about this like
five-star rating.
These workers work for youduring peak, but then I have a
(23:26):
lot of clients that don't run ona normal peak.
So then when January hits andthat demand goes down, I can
then redeploy those workerselsewhere and have them go work
somewhere else.
So for me, it's worth aninvestment of onboarding someone
because I know that I'm not justgonna have them for three
months.
If we do a good job and we doretain them, we're actually
gonna be able to retain them fora longer period of time.
(23:47):
So, you know, whereas a normalbusiness, I only need them for
three months and then they'regone.
And so that's where I think it'sreally important to like really
be thoughtful about is the juiceworth the squeeze sometimes of
like, you know, doing it all onyour own as opposed to saying,
hey, there's a release valve.
By the way, and here's the otherthing is like, you know, if I'm
gonna increase my headcount by20, 30, 35%, I need to hire
(24:09):
recruiters.
Like, how am I gonna do that?
Like, you know, like you don'thave recruiters growing on
trees, right?
So how are you actually gonna beable to bring people on to then
do the work to bring the peopleon?
And so that's a big part of uhof what we educate clients on,
is like, really, what are youtrying to get out of this?
And what's the best financialand business decision that
you're looking for as you're asyou're kind of doing the the
(24:31):
planning for peak?
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
Yeah, a lot of times you exert yourself, try to save
money with uh a lot of uheffort, but you end up spending
more money because uh you didn'task for help or getting more
stress or taking on more umheadache.
You know, what do you want tohow much of that do we need
these days?
We got enough of that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Yeah.
I mean, at the end of the day,like, you know, if if if you're
a 3PL, like your your secretsauce is like you've got a way
of getting points or goods frompoint A to point B faster and
more efficiently and with betterthroughput than anyone else.
You're not in the staffing game,right?
So like just like just like, youknow, whoever has outsourced
(25:16):
their 3PL to you, you shouldthink about outsourcing some of
your processes to someone who'sjust better at it, right?
Just like we outsource ourtrucking to someone, just like
we outsource our manufacturing,like you should outsource some
of your staffing to people thatare just frankly better at it
and more experienced.
Because you don't want to like,you don't want to be focused on
something like at the end of theday, like look at your mission
(25:37):
statement.
Does it say hire and retain thebest um ad hoc peak talent in
the world?
No, that's probably not what'sin your mission statement.
So focus on what you do best andlet the professionals focus on
what they do best as well.
SPEAKER_01 (25:49):
So looking at Outlook, you know, it looks like
tariffs aren't going awayanytime soon.
Uh labor shortages are alwaysgoing to be a struggle, seems
like.
So we would love for things toget easier.
Um, but what would you say thatcan help a company not get
crushed by these forces?
SPEAKER_00 (26:06):
Man, if I knew that answer, I'd be sitting on a
beach somewhere, wouldn't I?
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
Uh dart, see what tell me.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:15):
There's so there's so much uncertainty right now.
Um so I'll here's what I'll do.
I'll tell you what I like.
I don't have the answer, but I Ido think that we have we have a
lot of customers actually uhthat have had a lot of success
growing actually over the courseof the last couple of years, and
especially even like during thistariff period.
(26:37):
So I'll tell you what I whatbecause I asked them the same
question.
I'm like, how are you guys doingit?
And um their answers are prettysimple.
It's A, uh don't try to reinventthe wheel.
Stick to your cores and yourfundamentals and just do what
you do really, really well.
Because that's how you can startto win business from your
competitors who are starting.
The other thing that I think wasreally interesting is that they
(26:58):
all were willing to do twothings.
Number one, they were willing tofire bad clients.
Right.
So they had people that werepaying them, right?
Their clients.
And if they weren't goodclients, they would go to them
and they would say, Hey, wedon't think that this is a good
fit.
This this business relationshipis a good fit.
(27:18):
So they were willing to walkaway because what they did is
they realized what is a good fitand what type of customer or
client or process or product wasa really good fit for their
business, and they doubled downon that.
So they identified who is ourideal customer.
And let's run really, reallyhard at delivering an amazing
service to our ideal customer,as opposed to trying to fit a
(27:40):
square peg in a round hole.
Because as these tariffs and asthese nations and as these
different kind of economicimpacts happen, you need
everyone to be as efficient aspossible.
And so if you've got a clientthat's like not a great one, but
you just kind of like have keptthem along and think about like
how much more resource you'rehaving to dedicate to that one
(28:01):
client than to the good ones,the ones that like, and it's not
the a good or bad, it's justlike to the clients that fit the
type of business model that youhave.
And so that you would you, as Italk to these customers, say,
yeah, we would spend anoutsourced outsized amount of
time on these clients that justweren't a good fit for our
business.
Now they were bad, but just likefor the type of business we had,
they weren't a good fit for it.
(28:23):
So being willing in certaincircum circumstances to have a
conversation, renegotiate, orwalk away from those ones, and
then just run really hard at theones that, okay, we know that
this type of customer, business,client, service, whatever, we
can really do better than anyoneelse.
And if you run towards them,then all of a sudden you're able
to start to pick up and youstart to realize like, what's my
(28:44):
niche?
Well, like, where can we reallymake a really positive impact to
organizations?
That's where I think people havehad a lot of success, is just
like not just stagnating, butlike really focusing on what
you're good at.
SPEAKER_01 (28:55):
I like that.
I really do.
It's uh you just you just haveto follow through on it.
And I think a lot of customerswill pick up on that, that they
value certain things, and thenit will translate to just good
good care of the customer.
SPEAKER_00 (29:09):
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (29:09):
I think that's gonna resonate well because then they
will remember it.
You got a great experience, andsomebody, you know, you know
that your money has value whereyou spent it.
So that's all that's all goodeducation for a lot of people
out there.
I think we just need to keepspreading that word.
Uh as long as we follow throughon it, that plan, I think it's
gonna I think that's a good one.
I think he hits bullseye.
Uh so and AI is gonna help themrun faster too.
(29:31):
So it may sound like a big thingto take on.
I also have many smallbusinesses um been able to get
through the AI transition andnot feel overwhelmed.
SPEAKER_00 (29:42):
Uh what I think is really important is that you
know, you see all these thingsall over the internet about AI
and how everyone's using AI.
And um I think that the way thatyou can start to think about AI
right now is that it doesn'tneed to be zero to a hundred.
It's like, how can you startusing it to be a little bit more
(30:03):
efficient?
How can you, you know, step onein logistics is like, are you
using AI to map out your routes?
Uh, right?
Like, like there's and that'sjust like the very beginning.
There's all of a sudden allthese different use cases you
can use it for.
And it doesn't need to be thatlike, you know, people talk
about like, oh, there's gonna bea billion-dollar company that
only has one person and theyjust use AI for everything.
(30:23):
Like, yeah, maybe that'llhappen.
It's not happening this year,that's for sure.
And and quite frankly, I thinkthat the big change with AI is
that AI is just it'sfoundationally impact every
single business, right?
Like every single business isgonna be impacted by it, just
like every single business wasimpacted by the internet, and
some more than others.
(30:44):
But like quite frankly, you'realways gonna have to have
products shipped from point A topoint B.
So it's and and it's not thatlike it's not that humans are
gonna completely leave theprocess, but how can you use AI
to make yourself more efficient?
In the hiring game, how can youuse it to help you go through
resumes more quickly from the150 resumes you gotten to, hey,
I AI, tell me what are the top10 that I should really be
(31:07):
looking at.
You know, how can you use AI tobe able to more effectively
allow you to cost out and doyour forecasting or whatever it
might be?
Like it doesn't need to be anall or nothing, but just start
using it.
Because if you don't start usingit, you're just kind of you're
you're eventually gonna get leftbehind.
And so it's not you don't youdon't need to like revolutionize
every business practice that youhave right now, but like it's
(31:29):
about building the musclememory.
Like, I don't know if you ever,if you ever played sports, but
you know, it's it's a greatanalogy.
It's like you didn't, you know,you've heard about like Malcolm
Gladwell 10,000 hour rule.
Like you become a pro when youjust practice, practice,
practice for 10,000 hours orsomething.
That's the idea, is you justneed to start practicing at AI
and then you'll start to realizewhere you can actually use it
for a benefit.
SPEAKER_01 (31:50):
Nice.
I like um as long as the humanfactor isn't eliminated
altogether, I think we're gonnacome out okay.
I think uh not to sound old, butwhen uh I think it was shortly
after 9-11, a lot of jobsstarted uh companies started
downsizing a little bit andpeople would take on extra work.
So let's say you would have aperson in the office that did a
(32:11):
task, and now they had to dothree other tasks, and they got
used to it.
And then it after a while theeconomy went through the housing
crash and the company scaledback a little more, say, hey,
can you do more?
Can you do more?
And they're like, okay, I cantake on more.
Now you feel like you're doingsix different things.
And so I'm thinking maybe AI isgonna be that element that would
(32:32):
kind of bring down thattemperature, bring it down that
person that was doing so much.
They got really good at it.
That's why they're still at thatjob.
But now they can use theartificial intelligence to make
that job more manageable, moresustainable, um, instead of that
burnout thing that we keeprunning into as humans.
So that I think that would begreat if uh we as humans saw
(32:54):
that path uh down the road,because you know, you kind of
think, hey, where would I be inthe next five, ten years?
It could be a really good place.
SPEAKER_00 (33:02):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (33:02):
Gotta keep thinking positive.
And like the the service thatyou guys provide, a lot of
companies out there trying tofigure out what do we do to keep
people happy.
Um, well, stop burning outcustomers, burning out the
employees, excuse me.
It's just provide that relief.
Like you said, be there like youguys can hit that relief and be
that that person for them, youknow, that that company for them
(33:23):
that they can work with to getthat that work done.
So yeah, great job.
Uh that's awesome.
Um, on a personal level, what doyou see?
It all going staffing or evenanything like that within the
next 10 with your experience, 10to maybe five to 10 years from
now?
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (33:41):
Yeah, so the staffing industry is in and of
itself, um, it hasn't been, Iguess to like if to like to use
like a very basic phrase, ithasn't been um Amazon's, it
hasn't been Uberized yet.
Like it is still a very, very,very manual, manual process.
(34:03):
Um, and there are still likelots of brick and mortar
branches and lots of whiteboardsand lots of little ledgers and
lots of mechanical pencils.
And there's nothing uhinherently wrong with that, but
there's a huge amount ofefficiency that we're not taking
advantage of in the staffingindustry.
The redeployment rate, like Iwas telling you, of uh a worker
working for multiple businessesthrough one staffing agency is
(34:28):
really low.
Some in at some staffingcompanies is as low as like
seven or eight percent.
So that means that like lessthan 10% of the time is a worker
working for multiple customers,right?
Now I'm telling you about likethis five star rating and being
able to redeploy and how coolthat is.
Um, and so I think those, likethose are the areas where like
eventually at some point, likethe the industry is gonna wise
(34:50):
up to the fact that, hey, weneed to use technology to be
able to drive better outcomesfor clients and ultimately for
the job seekers.
And I think that's a reallyimportant part is that if you
can treat the job seekers justas well as you treat the
clients, you're ultimately gonnahave a more successful workforce
that's gonna be better retainedand ultimately you're gonna have
(35:10):
a beautiful flywheel, or thenyou're gonna have happier
clients.
And I think that's a reallyimportant part of it is like
raising the value and the leveland the importance of the worker
and what they want and whattheir demands are because as
they're as they're evolving,it's really important.
And then how can you usetechnology to just build more
efficiencies, remove thefriction in people getting work?
I think that's really wherewhere the industry is going.
SPEAKER_01 (35:33):
Well, well, I got you here.
Um, it's your personal angle.
I mean, you got a lot of greatinsight, like um, like how you
guys are doing things overthere.
Um, so I'm really glad to haveyou on the show.
And you've led a lot of, youknow, with leadership lessons,
probably because of laborshortages or overcoming crisis.
There's rapid change that you'veseen to happen.
Um, what's the hardestleadership lesson you've learned
(35:57):
that maybe a trucker can learnfrom that's running their own
business that they can relateto?
SPEAKER_00 (36:03):
I think that there's there's a book um by a guy named
John C.
Maxwell, and it's called The 21Indisputable Laws of Leadership.
The 21 Indisputable Laws ofLeadership.
It's a great book.
Uh it's a bit long, but reallygood insights.
And I'd say the one that I thinkis the most impactful for me is
(36:26):
the law of legacy.
And what he means by that is youshould be able to disappear
tomorrow and have your team pickup and be able to continue to
run things.
I think too often in leadership,people feel like they have to
almost like create their valueand make sure that they're an
(36:49):
indispensable part and everydecision needs to be run by
them.
And I think that that sometimesis done a little bit out of like
the fear of like, well, if Iempower people too much, then
what's my worth?
Like, why even have me around?
But the idea of that is that theidea behind the law of legacy is
(37:09):
that if you're developing yourteam, if you're investing in
your team, if you're lettingyour team and you're empowering
your team so much that they feellike they can make the right
decisions.
And by the way, sometimesthey're gonna make the right
ones and sometimes they're gonnamake the wrong ones.
But it's a journey and it'sabout learning.
If you can empower people likethat, then what that does is
that frees up time for you toactually be a leader and point
the business in the rightdirection and help to understand
(37:32):
and put together what thestrategy is gonna be longer term
as opposed to having to be inthe weeds.
Empower the people that you'vehired to lead people to actually
do that.
And you will build your legacyas someone who is empowering,
who is a transformationalleader.
Um, and that will free up yourtime to be able to truly be able
(37:52):
to do things that are gonnabetter the business, improve the
business, drive the business indirections no one ever thought
it could go.
But you can't do that if you'realways focused on micromanaging
the people that that work foryou.
SPEAKER_01 (38:04):
Nice.
Deliver the relief you need, uh,deliver the relief that your
workers, your staff, your youknow, your team that they need,
um, instead of keeping thatpressure on and making people
feel like you know they cannever let it let up, you know.
So eventually you gotta yougotta let your foot off the
accelerator.
And uh, you know, you gottacoast for a little bit and make
(38:25):
sure everything seems rightbecause then you can have that
that far-sighted vision that youneed for your business to keep
growing.
SPEAKER_00 (38:31):
Exactly.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (38:32):
So it's gonna have to bumper ahead of you.
So great, great advice.
Uh, I like that.
And it's a good read.
Um, I'll put that in the notesfor anybody that's looking for
that book so they can get thatknowledge too.
Thanks, James.
Um, it's definitely been aneye-opener for staffing and for
helping people get their theirwork done out there because it
can be difficult to not burn outor crouch in onto that bottom
(38:57):
line.
You know, people want to keepthat bottom line going,
especially when it comes to thepeak season.
So for truckers who know whatwhat that's like, or for
truckers who are without peoplein the right place or freight
that doesn't move, um, hey,reach out to Indeed Flex.
Uh they can help you guys out.
So it's one of the the newthings that we can do is uh get
(39:18):
help with not just AI, but alsowith that relief when it comes
to staffing.
So any words of wisdom you wantto leave before we go?
I I think you've kind of hit alot of the main points.
Um I'm sure people still havestruggles out there, but uh they
can always reach out for more.
SPEAKER_00 (39:32):
Yeah, I would say uh, you know, keep keep keep on
trucking.
SPEAKER_01 (39:37):
Exactly.
That's it.
So for the listeners out therewho want to connect and learn
more about Indeed Flex, where'sthe best place for them to reach
you or point of contact forIndeepflex?
SPEAKER_00 (39:48):
Head to indeedflex.com and you can reach
out to us right there.
SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
Awesome.
Thanks again for joining us,James.
And uh for your audience outthere, remember trucking isn't
always just about movingfreight.
It's about adapting fast,building resilience, and finding
smarter ways to deliver.
I'm trucking Ray, and that's thelift.
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