November 7, 2025 • 33 mins
In this actionable episode, CFO and operator Matt Putra, CEO of Eightx, transforms the trucking industry’s toughest financial challenges into a clear, practical playbook you can implement this month. Specializing in fractional CFO services for eCommerce, CPG, and growth-stage companies, Matt draws from his expertise in cash flow optimization, margin improvements, and team alignment to help fleets scale with more cash and less stress. From navigating cash flow gaps caused by slow AR payments to managing urgent fuel and payroll demands, he shares strategies like 12-month forecasting and 16-week cash views to keep your fleet running smoothly. With a focus on real-world solutions, he demystifies contribution margin, guides you through scenario planning for diesel spikes or expansion, and reveals how to prioritize costs and leverage AI to stay ahead. This episode is a must-listen for owner-operators ready to stop guessing and start scaling with confidence.
Key Takeaways 👇
✅ Mastering Cash Flow: Tackle the cash gap from 30–60 day AR delays against urgent fuel and payroll needs using a 12-month forecast paired with a 16-week cash view to keep trucks rolling and stress low.
✅ Contribution Margin Clarity: Matt explains contribution margin in plain English, helping you determine if each load boosts profits or erodes your bottom line.
✅ Scenario Planning for Resilience: Learn to stress-test your finances for diesel price spikes, slower growth, or new lane expansions to make informed decisions about truck purchases or subcontracting.
✅ Smart Expansion Strategies: Discover why new trucks can hurt margins, when subcontracting makes sense, and how to scale from two to ten trucks without risking your bank balance.
✅ Cost Triage Tactics: Prioritize revenue-generating roles, protect KTLO (keep the lights on) expenses, and cut non-essential costs to ensure your fleet survives and thrives.
✅ People and Tech Advantage: Hire drivers who build customer relationships for repeat business, and use AI to summarize calls, flag issues, draft outreach, and chase invoices for faster, smarter decisions.
✅ Take Action Now: Hit play to start growing intentionally, share with a fellow owner-operator, and test your first financial scenario—then let us know what money problem to tackle next.
Interested in being a guest on the podcast? Click here to join the conversation!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
Welcome back to Das Delivered Podcast.
I'm your host, Trucking Ray, andtoday we're talking money, the
kind of money where decisionscan make or break a trucking
company.
Our guest is Matt Petruer, hashelped six figures losses turn
into seven-figure profits andscale businesses past 100
million.
He's worked with e-commerce andCPG brands, and he's also had
(00:27):
lessons where he brings cashflow, growth, and strategy to
hit home for anyone who runstrucks, build fleets, and keep
the lights on.
Trucking is an industry wheretoo many run on gut instinct.
But Matt's here to show us howwe can replace gut calls with
financial clarity so we canscale with confidence.
(00:48):
Thanks so much for having me,Ray.
Good to see you.
Awesome.
And we got a lot to talk about.
We can cover is your journey andyour perspective of what's going
on in the industry.
You worked in environments whereyou've made decisions backed by
data and big money.
What was the aha moment when yourealized uh smaller owner-led
businesses like truckingcompanies needed the same
(01:11):
financial discipline?
SPEAKER_02 (01:13):
Um Yeah.
So I used to be a CFO of aprivate equity group.
And the aha moment for me camewhen a really good friend of
mine asked for help with hissmall business, him and his
wife.
And they was just like three ofthem.
And they asked for some help.
And I built them a financialsame things I would do for any
other company.
I built a financial forecast, Imade some scenarios, did some
(01:37):
reporting, and we just found outthat that intelligence helped
them make better decisions.
And that year, we actually saved$50,000 that they would
otherwise have spent on actuallyon shipping, um, shipping over
the ocean.
And I said, hey, well, why don'tyou try shipping on the sea?
You but pay for it a little bitearlier.
And anyway, they saved a wholebunch of money.
Um, and so that's when Irealized that like any business
(01:59):
can can benefit from like strongfinance.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
Nice.
I it makes perfect sense.
I mean, I think a lot oftrucking companies often start
as family operated operations.
Um, how have you convinced owneroperators or uh businesses from
doing things their way over 20years or more financial
structure?
It's just important to getthings, you know, as getting
freight delivered on time.
(02:25):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (02:26):
Um, you know, I don't know that I'm like
convincing people per se, but Ithink when when I meet someone
who's frustrated with theirresults, or I meet someone who
who kind of wonders if there'smore or wants to grow or wants
to turn their business around, Ithink that kind of person kind
(02:48):
of vibes with what I do.
And and then when I say, well,you know, what what keeps you up
at night?
And they say, Oh man, I justdon't know if I can, if I got
payroll covered for threemonths, I'm like, ah, okay,
there we go.
And they're like, oh, I wish I'dhave no idea how my business is
really doing.
And I say, okay, so so then Igo, well, what if I gave you a
report that told you exactly howyou did the last three months or
(03:10):
one month?
And then what if I tell you thatwe can look over the next six
months and make some plans, andthose plans will hold up even if
something bad happens orsomething good happens, and they
go, Oh, well, that could work.
And I go, Well, yeah, that'swhat we do, right?
So so it tends to be somebodywho's ambitious.
Um, I can't convince somebodywho doesn't really want it, you
know.
unknown (03:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Absolutely.
I mean, uh, when we try toconvince people, sometimes it
comes across too salesy.
So uh just helping people, justbeing there for them is a huge
thing to to be able to be inthat position to do that.
So you're in a position to helppeople financially, I think
that's a really great place tobe.
Um, maybe people can feelvulnerable.
(03:52):
Um, you know, got their stuffout there.
Hey, I don't want to talk aboutit, but this is where I need
help, you know.
So good job.
100%.
Yeah, and so as far as financeand trucking um realities and
trucking cash can often, youknow, be 30 to 60 days after the
load is delivered.
But expenses, fuel repair,payroll, and they're all due
(04:13):
daily or weekly.
What strategies do you recommendto manage that constant
mismatch?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
Well, um, I think that's one of these businesses
where you can't actually growtoo fast, right?
So if you grow too fast, youactually run out of money.
And so the the big thing that Ilike to do in these situations
where there's like delaysbetween expenses and receiving
your money back, the mostimportant one that I'll do is
(04:42):
cash flow planning and scenarioplanning, meaning we'll sort of
make a budget for a year, andlet's say they think maybe we'll
grow 20% this year.
So we'll make a plan, and we'llgo, we're gonna buy this truck
or hire these people or pay thismuch in fuel, and this is when
it's due.
And then what we do is we say,what if we do all the things and
(05:02):
we only grow 10%?
Or what if we do all the thingsand we grow 40%?
Where does the breakage occur?
And and what we're looking foris sort of breakage in margins
or cash flow or just net profit.
And when you kind of uh playwith the scenario like that, it
shows you which one of thosethings will break first.
(05:25):
And then what we do is we've welook where the breakage occurs,
what month or or when could ithappen?
And then we make we kind of diveeven deeper on the planning.
So then we might do instead of amonthly, we might do a weekly
forecast.
And we might say um for the next16 weeks, what do things look
like?
Um, and so that's that's thefoundation of it all.
(05:45):
And then there are strategies,of course.
Um, sometimes you can factoryour your receivables.
So someone will give you themoney up front and then they'll
collect the money from yourcustomer, they'll take 2% or
something like that.
So we don't want to do that ifwe don't have to.
We can.
Um otherwise, we can offer earlypayment discounts to people.
(06:07):
They don't always take them, butsometimes they will.
Um, and then good old-fashionedfollow-up, right?
So you email them five daysbefore the invoice is due, you
email them the day the invoiceis due, five days after, then
you call, then you you know, youdo all these things, then you
show up, you know.
Um, those are things thataccelerate payment timelines,
and you don't have to beheavy-handed.
(06:30):
Um, but and sometimes though,it's just the way that it goes.
And so you have to make sure youdon't grow too fast and make
sure that you have sometimes youhave better margins than others
might if you want to becomfortable in that position.
For those that are comfortablebeing uncomfortable, you can
grow fat or kind of whiteknuckle it.
But you know, those are some ofthe things I would do.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
Yeah, it kind of sounds like driving.
You know, you can do the speedlimit and get there when you're
supposed to, or you could try topush it real hard to get there,
and then you get you know, morerisk involved, and you can
actually may not even make itthere.
So speed is definitely somethinga trucker knows.
So financially, it's probablythe same.
You said about uh you mentionedbraking.
(07:11):
How do you find those brakes umwhere those vulnerabilities are
financially?
SPEAKER_02 (07:17):
Yeah.
Like I say, the first thing thatwe do for anybody when we work
together is we make a budget,essentially, right?
So the next 12 months, what doesit look like?
And we obviously base that offof what have things been looking
like with the last three to sixmonths, how are those looking?
And then we just make a plan.
So we say you've been growingwhatever, 10% per year or 5% a
(07:37):
month, whatever you've beengrowing at.
Let's add those deliveries.
And what is the capacity of thetrucks for deliveries today and
the people?
And then what we do is we set upa financial forecast that the
the next delivery that happensover and above the ones that the
truck has available, it'll addanother truck in the model.
Okay, or we can choose tocontract subcontract.
(08:00):
So we would do one of those twothings.
And when we do that, the modelbegins to be useful because it
will know when you've hit thatstep change in delivery, you
need a new truck or subcontract.
So your margins will drop, orthey'll stay the same, but
you'll have a cash outflow or anew loan or financing or some
purchase, right?
And and the way and the reasonwe do that is because you know
(08:22):
we can never really know what'sgoing to happen, but we can make
assumptions.
So we make all these assumptionsfor the next 12 months, and then
like I say, we just test them.
So you you open it up and yougo, okay, to the owner operator
or the family, you say, Doesthis look how does it look to
you?
And really you go off gut feel,right?
Because you just don't know.
And so then we get it to a pointwhere it looks good.
(08:43):
Then we say, Great, that's ourbest guess, right?
That's what we think is gonnahappen.
Then we do one where I cut somegrowth off.
And we go, based if we cut somegrowth off, do we still look
okay?
Is margins okay?
Have we hired too much?
Uh, you know, is the how's cashflow looking?
(09:04):
And then we might ratchet up gasprices or diesel prices, see
what that how that changes ourforecasts.
And we do that based off ofhistorical diesel prices, where
they are today.
We look at economic economists,economist forecasts.
Um, we can look at that.
And then we go, what if we addmore growth?
Because sometimes more growthcan be harder than the same
(09:25):
level of like stability.
So we go, okay, that grows,great.
Do we buy trucks?
Do we subcontract?
How does diesel prices look?
And we test a bunch of things,and then between those three
scenarios, we have a one wethink is going to happen, we
have a bad one, we have a goodone.
Typically, what you'll see iscash flow will have an issue or
margin will have an issue, andwe find out where the issue is.
(09:47):
So let's say, for example, yougrow too fast and it triggers
the purchase of a new truck, andyou say, ah shit, I don't have a
down payment for that, orwhatever.
So we say, Great, well, now weknow that six months in advance.
So let's go find somesubcontractors that can do some
stuff for us, and we'll make anagreement with them that, you
know, this agreement or thatagreement.
So then we'll subcontract forsix months, then we'll buy a
(10:08):
truck, let's say, as an example.
So that's some of the ways thatwe do this.
We all we just look atscenarios.
What could happen if this, whatcould happen if that?
We just test monthly.
Um, and typically the goal is tofind a problem nine months
before it occurs.
If we do that, we give peopletime to fix it before it even
happens.
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
So it's real reality, real thinking, and real
time.
Um, I like the way you guys dothat.
Uh is it something you werealways good at with numbers, or
you just got a great team?
Uh, what really makes the magicwork for you guys, man?
It sounds like you uh got itdialed in.
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
Yeah, I mean, I came to it later in life.
I was uh I worked inmanufacturing for the first
eight years, like from 19 tolike 27, and then I worked at a
at a machine shop for a while.
And at the machine shop, whathappened was I was the quality
manager there and and I had todo some stuff with like what if
we have this many units and thatmany units, and what happens to
(11:04):
production?
And I got into spreadsheetsthere, ended up being really
good at it, uh, and then I wentinto accounting in finance.
And so after that, I only becamea CFO when I was 32.
Um, so um, but I was awesome atit, basically, right?
Like, and I worked in privateequity and I did deals, and we
we did like half a billion indeals uh with the time that I
(11:24):
was there.
So yeah, I was really good atit, but I didn't find out till
later in life.
And then, like I say, my buddycalled me and we did this for
him, and I did it for his buddyand their buddy, and you know,
my business gets kind of tookoff organically from there.
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
Nice.
Yeah, I mean that's cool whenyou got friends that trust you
and because trust is a factorwhen it comes to people's money
and finances.
Uh you don't want to just throwthose around to anybody.
So 100%.
Man, so if uh if a truckingcompany is is running at
break-even or at a small loss,where should they look first to
(11:57):
identify what's really eatingaway at their profit?
SPEAKER_02 (12:01):
I'll give you what I would do for almost anybody, I
would say, and that is the firstplace you look is something
called contribution margin.
Now I don't know, actually, I'mnot sure if that term is
familiar in trucking, but it's auseful term, so I'll break it
down.
Contribution margin is netrevenue.
So revenue minus discounting orreturns, not do you have
(12:23):
returns, but rebates or promosor whatever.
So net revenue, right?
Then you go less your variablecosts.
This is gonna be fuel uh and anyvariable cost.
Uh let's say it's gonna be likesome uh repairs or maybe tires
or brakes, things like that,like they that are that are the
more you drive, the more costyou have.
(12:44):
So fuel, uh variable cost, andso when you remove the variable
cost of supplying the service,all the variable costs, you end
up with a contribution margin.
So there's probably some hourlydrivers, there might be
subcontracts, there might beowner operators.
Um, and so anyway, as long asit's variable, you reduce your
net revenue by everything that'svariable, like everything.
(13:06):
And when you want to identifyvariable costs, the way that
those work is if you drive moreor you do more deliveries, this
cost also goes up.
Doesn't have to be at the samerate, but if it changes if you
drive more, or if it stops ifyou drive less or slows down if
you drive less, it's variable.
So you do net revenue minus allyour variable costs,
(13:27):
contribution margin.
What that means is from a dollarof revenue, how many cents do
you get to keep to cover yourfixed costs, like your admin or
your office or leases and thingslike that?
You know, those aren't gonnachange if you drive more or
less.
So, how many cents?
So, from a dollar of revenue,how many cents do you have?
The first thing I want to lookat is that.
(13:49):
Is that positive?
If it's not positive, you losemoney every time you make a
delivery, and you lose moremoney the more deliveries you
make.
So obviously we gotta look therefirst.
So, structurally, that's themost important thing I look at.
Is that in line with myindustry?
I actually don't know what it isfor trucking, um, but in CPG or
e-commerce, for example, it'slike 20 cents for every dollar
(14:09):
of revenue should be left over.
Now, from there, we have to lookat our fixed costs, right?
So uh are we covering ourleases, are we covering our
staff?
Are we covering offices?
All those different things.
And if we're not covering those,what you do next is you organize
all your expenses into threebuckets revenue generating,
(14:32):
KTLO, which means keep thelights on, and other.
And revenue generating costs, solet's say salesperson, if
they're doing a good job ormarketing or something like
that, you keep those costsbecause they bring in the money,
right?
Yeah, KTLO is keep the lightson.
So if you don't pay your trucklease, you don't have a truck,
(14:54):
so you can't make the moneyanyway.
So it doesn't generate revenue,or you could put it there too,
but but so you have to keep thethings that keep the lights on.
Utilities.
Um maybe you have enough truckswhere you have a mechanic, and
rather than paying a service,you have your own mechanic.
Well, that guy or girl keeps thelights on the trucks moving, so
you can't fire them.
And so figure out what is theKTLO costs and be hard on
(15:18):
yourself with these.
Like literally really assess theowner's salary might not be
KTLO, or the owner's wife, ormom or dad.
Sometimes those might not beKTLO.
You you pay them because you'rea good person, but you have to
be really strict about how youput these in these categories,
and then other.
Other is everything else, it'snot those two things, and you
(15:38):
just start gonna cutting otherright, and it's hard to say and
it's hard to do, and it'sterrible, but start cutting
other costs until you get to apoint where you can grow the
business and make some money.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
Yeah, reminds me of um you know, you're making a a
meal for somebody.
You you gotta really think aboutwho's all coming.
You want the head count, youwant to think about well, uh,
can we do we need all of that?
You know, so you're like you'rem making a recipe or a menu for
people to enjoy or um for abanquet.
And you know, you gotta makesome decisions.
(16:12):
Um, maybe you you want a lot ofdessert, but you can't food,
right?
Totally.
100%.
Yeah, so I mean, especially fortrucking.
Um, people say it's so hard torent a trucking company um for
you got to find a way to washmoney.
It's like, wow, I don't know.
So many variables.
But you the way you break itdown makes it seem seem easy,
(16:35):
easy to digest.
That's nice.
Um, so scaling and growth, a lotof owner operators want to add
trucks, but uh theyunderestimate the financial
impact.
You know, you see the nice shinytrucks out there from from your
experience.
Uh, what hidden costs do peoplemiss when they're scaling from
maybe say if you were to takeone to five trucks or up to ten?
(16:56):
That is really the backbone oftrucking, is those small
companies like that.
So what would you say to them?
SPEAKER_02 (17:03):
Oh man.
Um, again, I go back to a aforecast.
That's that's the foundation ofeverything that we do because
you can just you can ask, youcan, you can sort of uh assess
multiple realities in aspreadsheet, right?
And how does it look and howdoes it feel?
And and so then what you saidabout missing things, I think
(17:24):
the big one there is a realisticview on how fast growth will
happen.
Because I think for mostbusiness owners, the way that
that I see things happening isthey go, I'm gonna add this
cost, truck, person, marketing,whatever.
And we're gonna grow this muchin this time frame and then
(17:44):
we'll be fine.
But I find that the growth takeslonger to happen, typically,
maybe not for some people, butmost of the time the growth
takes longer.
And so they underestimate howlong they have to bear an
unprofitable truck for until itcovers itself.
That's what I see most often.
(18:06):
Um and I think that moresubcontracting probably can make
sense to fill up a subcontracttruck 75% or something, then buy
your new one rather than buyinga new one in advance, maybe.
Um another one I see is you knowand this is across industries
(18:27):
too, is you want the newest,latest thing when an older one
would do.
So getting an older model isprobably cheaper.
Um and so again, I understandthe desire for a nice thing, so
it's hard for me to say anythingabout that, but like you know,
sometimes you get the older one.
Um and I think the other thingis most people underestimate the
(18:48):
variable costs associated.
So, what will fuel really be?
What will the salaries reallybe?
What will maintenance really be?
And again, people havehistoricals and all that, but
fuel is probably the one whereit probably changes a bunch.
And so just make sure that yougo, okay, the truck should grow
like this, it should do this,the people costs is that, the
maintenance costs is this, andthe fuel should be that.
(19:10):
Well, what if fuel is 10% moreor less or whatever?
How does that affect your youryour profit of that particular
truck?
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
Um I think that's what I would do.
Yeah, that's what I would dothere.
Nice.
Um what does a financial healthytrucking company look like or a
company from any industry onpaper?
Should it even um maybe is therea number or percentage that they
should look at um beforeexpanding?
SPEAKER_02 (19:39):
Um you know, I wouldn't say there's any one
number.
Uh I what does a healthy companylook like?
I think a healthy company isprofitable, typically, um, and
has cash in the bank.
So this is a tough one, but ifyou have three months of
expenses in the bank, that'sit's a pretty good place to be.
(20:01):
It feels good.
Okay.
So so I would say that for me isis one.
So you're you're making money,you're growing at a rate that
makes you not want to pull yourhair out, and you have cash in
the bank to cover surprises.
Um, and and from there, there'sa wide range of what people are
okay with.
Like some some person might beokay with just three months in
(20:24):
the bank and a little bit ofmargin, and they're gonna want
to grow fast.
Some people might want moremargin, more cash, and they'll
grow slower.
I think both are okay.
Um, but I think one big one iswhere the owner shouldn't feel
super stressed all the time,right?
Because if the owner isfirefighting or is super
(20:47):
stressed, they are gonna notthey're not gonna think
optimally, and they'll makemistakes because they're kind of
off, you know.
And so I think that again, thecompany should have cash and
have margin, but the ownershould feel good about it too.
And if they don't, they're justbound to make bad decisions just
because they're stressed andthey're not thinking right.
(21:07):
So, so I would think theownership of a business should
be healthy too.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
That's huge.
I'm um to put those two togetherlike that is great because when
you think numbers, you don'tthink that emotion really comes
in the factor, but it does.
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
Um, and you know, many truckers out there are
gonna be struggling, not justwith uh uh getting from A to B,
but um financially, and that canaffect a lot of people's
decisions.
SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
Well, let me give you an example from from myself.
So I have a I have a very goodfriend of mine, and they and he
owns a business and I own abusiness, and and we're we're
different because my wife isactually kind of okay with
taking quite a bit of risk.
So we have some loans and we'vegrown quite fast, and it's been
a little crazy, and we can't doall the trips all the time, and
sometimes it's stressful.
(21:52):
And this other friend of mine,um, his wife is less okay with
risk, meaning they have quite abit of cash saved.
And we we actually don't, um,because I'm putting in the
business, but and they they havekept cash personally, and so
they probably have well, I don'tknow how much, but a bunch of
cash personally, but he'sgrowing less fast.
Um, but we all get along withour wives, and so we're happy,
(22:16):
right?
But I'm happy in a different waybecause my wife was a bit crazy
like me, and he's happy becausehe's he's him and his wife have
made whatever decisions on cash,but he's growing less slowly,
but his relationship is good,and my relationship is good, but
I can grow faster because mywife's crazy.
Do you know what I mean?
So that's even factors in like aprism effect, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
Yeah, I get that.
All right, so and everybody'sdifferent, and like I like how
you bring in the personal effectof it all because um everybody
can't be like the other guy, youcan't compare yourself to the
next person, and um uh youdefinitely want to keep your
wife happy or your partners.
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, so man, so running trucksand finances require long haul,
(23:01):
you know, patience.
Do you see uh any results uhwhen it comes to personality of
the people who start thesecompanies?
You know, maybe you've got torub shoulders with a lot of
people there, and when thosepeople start those companies,
they're in for the long game orum or the short term.
I mean, what what is that likebeing around individuals that
(23:22):
have this goal and they want toreach it?
But it's it's like a long, longdrawn-out plan.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:30):
Um, I got to see when I used to work in
manufacturing, I got to see abunch of trucking companies
because we we did uh scrapmetal, so they would bring us
containers like I don't know, 20a week and things like that.
And so I got to see whichcompanies were ended up doing
well and and not.
And I would say, from myperspective, the companies that
ended up doing well, um they theones that grew the most didn't
(23:53):
always have the newest trucksfor sure.
Uh and these are short haul, soI don't know about the long haul
side necessarily, but so theydidn't always have the newest
trucks.
They had drivers that builtrelationships with us, you know.
And so I think that if you canget people that build
relationships with the peoplethey're picking up stuff from or
delivering stuff to, that made adifference.
(24:15):
Um and so if you extrapolatewhat that means, I'm saying like
they're conservative financiallyand they hire great people.
Uh and I think if you can dothose two things, you can decide
do you want to be reallyaggressive with growth or not.
But I would say, from myperspective, again, conservative
financially and hire very goodpeople.
Uh you probably can't bestopped, to be honest.
(24:37):
Because like if I like this guywho's bringing me the stuff all
the time and he's just reallynice, like I'm gonna call him
back.
You know what I mean?
Uh and if the other guy's anasshole, well, maybe not, right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:48):
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Um long term, short term, yougotta start thinking bigger, you
know, five year, ten year,fifteen years.
Uh, who would people want to dobusiness with more so?
Uh someone that's you know notrude to them that treats them
right, has good customerservice, I guess it's gonna go a
lot longer instead of thatshort-term transaction.
(25:11):
So that's huge.
Yeah.
So think long term, that's agood thing that will help you
financially.
So if you were to sit down witha trucker today who has two
trucks and dreams of owning thefleet, um, what's a single piece
of financial advice you wouldwant to give them so that when
they walk away, they they'llfeel like they're empowered.
SPEAKER_02 (25:30):
The single thing I gotta come back to is make uh
make a forecast uh and and beconservative on it.
And and if you want to do it foryourself, you just just make a
spreadsheet and you go truckone, truck two, and expenses,
and and just type them all inthere.
And I just want you to seeprofit or revenue minus
(25:50):
expenses, and when you add a newtruck, um add it conservatively
so don't make it grow too fast,but add a new line, add a new
truck, add the expenses for thattruck, and just make sure that
um that it that you know ifyou're gonna lose money on it
for a little bit that you canwithstand that, and if you
can't, subcontract it.
And I think if you do that, uhthat's from my point of view,
(26:13):
again, I'm a finance guy, somuch from my point of view,
that's the first most importantthing to do.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
Nice.
Yeah, the stuff that peopledon't want to look at, they just
want to say, all right, I didgood on that invoice.
Yeah, we made a nice haul onthat one.
Um, so we should be out on ontop, but yeah, actually sit down
and and do some of the boringnumber crunching.
Um totally boring.
SPEAKER_02 (26:35):
It'd be exciting for some people, but for some It is
for me, but honestly, like wemeet people once a month when we
work with them, and I would say10 of 12 meetings are just
boring.
Like just you go over the stuffand you're like, okay, I didn't
learn much.
But two meetings a year, and ifyou do this for yourself, two
reviews a year, you're gonnafind something important to help
(26:57):
you make money or save money.
But 10 of the 12 are gonna beboring, and but just do the work
and it it'll get you there.
SPEAKER_00 (27:05):
Set some time uh in your schedule for doing the
stuff that needs to be done.
That'll keep you going, keepyour dream alive, keep your um,
keep yourself happy tooemotionally, because then you
got that, you're not justthinking about that.
I hope we're okay.
I hope we're okay.
So exactly.
All right, nice.
Um, that's good advice.
Uh, what is one thing you wouldlike to share with people?
(27:26):
Um, you know, I know that yourcompany does really well.
Um, what's one thing that theydon't know that you would like
to share with them?
Possibly they know, hey, if I goto these guys, they're gonna
take care of me.
SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
Um well, again, you know, we love spreadsheets,
right?
I have a team of 25 people, andone half of us are all in
spreadsheets all the time.
And so if you need some support,uh, we're here for you.
And uh, if you don't want tomake your own spreadsheets, my
team will do it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:56):
So wow.
I I can only imagine.
So you gotta do all the graphs,uh, the charts, and all the um
the commands, uh, what do theycall those formulas?
Yeah.
Yeah, some pretty coolspreadsheets there.
SPEAKER_02 (28:10):
Yeah, we have we have we have some great ones.
Uh yeah, we have some clientsthat just recently sold to a
major market player, um, and andpart of that process was
building a fancy uh forecast forthe acquirer.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:23):
Man, so when it comes to um artificial
intelligence, AI, or whatever,um, what what do you see the
future doing for that?
Are you guys uh above the reston that one, or how does it feel
for you on the forecast?
SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
Yeah, so we're we're I would say on the advanced
side, like we have our first AIemployee doing things every day,
all day right now.
And it's uh it's a clientcoordinator.
So uh we all we are as aconsultant, we're on calls all
the time.
And so this employee uh listensto all of our calls and takes
notes on action items and triesto understand like is the client
(28:59):
happy or not happy, but then ifit thinks it's unhappy, it'll
flag our customer support teamto talk to that client.
And so we have our first AIemployee.
Um, I would say people should beall in, especially for truckers.
I think um you could likely doprospecting with AI right now,
so emails or even phone calls.
Now you can do phone calls withAI for you know, hey, do you
(29:20):
need deliveries?
So on.
Um, you could do your yourreception, could probably be
replaced by AI almost fullypretty soon.
Uh, your admin, uh, a lot ofthat stuff, invoicing,
follow-up, uh all a lot of thestuff could be done with AI, and
then you'll save cost, right?
Better margins.
Um, I think it's we're quite aways off from trucks that can do
(29:43):
autonomous deliveries.
So I wouldn't be stressed aboutthat, but I would be thinking
about it and trying to figureout what company is going to do
it and how would you use it, andjust be daydreaming about that.
Um, because again, the firstpeople to figure that out,
again, your margins are gonnaskyrocket, right?
So um again, I think we'requite.
Ways off, but but just bethinking about AI, be playing
with it.
(30:03):
You should have a ChatGPT onyour phone.
And if you drive yourself, youshould be talking to Chat GPT
when you're driving, justtalking to the app.
Um, and um you know, you ask itwhat you could do next, how you
could use AI in trucking.
SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
Like that's that'll get you far far ahead of others.
Yeah, the more comfortable youare with something, uh just like
riding a bike or driving atruck, you know, um two
different things, but you know,probably feel just as
comfortable doing both.
Um I know when I started ridingthe bike, I was pretty young.
I loved I love riding around abike, man.
Yeah, so only fits that I lovedriving.
(30:39):
Um, and then when I got in asemi truck, it was big, it was
huge.
I was like, I don't know if Icould do this.
Now it feels the same just likeriding the bike.
So yeah, you want to always beaware of dangers.
But uh, I was I was kind ofafraid of uh AI.
I wonder where we'll go.
And the more conversations I getto have with people, and um the
(31:03):
more comfortable I feel aboutit.
Um I think you know, going alongthe road of hey, where will this
take me?
Um, where do I see myself?
It does spark the mind toimagine more things uh than
you're you're capable of doing.
So um it's nice to think on on apositive about it.
SPEAKER_02 (31:20):
Yeah, I mean I I I choose to be positive about AI.
There's a lot of things you canbe negative about, but I choose
to be positive.
I choose to believe in potentialpositive outcomes with AI.
Um and you know, you you justcan't know, so why not be
positive?
SPEAKER_00 (31:38):
Yeah, we'll see see where it takes us.
And I'm sure we're um as long aswe're here to experience it, I
think it's gonna be a uh ajourney worth waiting for.
So um, man, I really thank youfor talking about what you guys
do over there.
I mean, um that forecast reallysounds exciting when you when
you look at it and get thenumbers you want.
So if it's if it's a lot of badnews, I bet you is a good way to
(32:00):
get a reality check.
SPEAKER_02 (32:02):
True, right?
Like sometimes you sometimes itis bad news.
Like I had a client where we didtheir forecast, and I was like,
in all three scenarios, you'relosing money forever.
But it allowed them tore-engineer the business model
to fix it.
So gave them power back.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
Gave them power back, exactly.
Yeah.
All right, man.
Wow.
Well, thanks, Matt.
Uh, I think it's been aneye-opener.
I think a lot of truckers outthere, or even company owners.
It may not be a trucker.
Um, you may just be in theindustry, come across a podcast.
You know that that your companyis one that will uh help them
see things when it comes towealth, stability, and their
(32:37):
future.
Um, so um I'm really appreciateyou guys taking the time to do
this.
And uh thanks so much for havingme, Ray.
This is great.
Uh anything else you wanted toshare with people out there or
let them know before we go?
SPEAKER_03 (32:48):
No, no.
SPEAKER_02 (32:49):
If you if you need to get in touch with us, my
website is 8x.co e-i-g-h-c-x.co.
And if you need some help, findus there.
SPEAKER_00 (32:57):
Awesome.
And I'll put the links in thenotes, and I appreciate that,
man.
So for those who want to learnmore, uh, please reach out to
Matt and his team.
Uh, we really thank you guys forjoining us.
And uh to everyone listening,please remember trucking isn't
always just about runningfreight, it's about building
something that will last andstand the test of time.
So um get those numbers right,and uh we can see you in the
(33:18):
right areas where you need tomake the decisions to make your
business grow.
So I'm trucking Ray, and that'sdelivered.
Welcome back to Das Delivered Podcast.
I'm your host, Trucking Ray, andtoday we're talking money, the
kind of money where decisionscan make or break a trucking
company.
Our guest is Matt Petruer, hashelped six figures losses turn
into seven-figure profits andscale businesses past 100
million.
He's worked with e-commerce andCPG brands, and he's also had
(00:27):
lessons where he brings cashflow, growth, and strategy to
hit home for anyone who runstrucks, build fleets, and keep
the lights on.
Trucking is an industry wheretoo many run on gut instinct.
But Matt's here to show us howwe can replace gut calls with
financial clarity so we canscale with confidence.
(00:48):
Thanks so much for having me,Ray.
Good to see you.
Awesome.
And we got a lot to talk about.
We can cover is your journey andyour perspective of what's going
on in the industry.
You worked in environments whereyou've made decisions backed by
data and big money.
What was the aha moment when yourealized uh smaller owner-led
businesses like truckingcompanies needed the same
(01:11):
financial discipline?
SPEAKER_02 (01:13):
Um Yeah.
So I used to be a CFO of aprivate equity group.
And the aha moment for me camewhen a really good friend of
mine asked for help with hissmall business, him and his
wife.
And they was just like three ofthem.
And they asked for some help.
And I built them a financialsame things I would do for any
other company.
I built a financial forecast, Imade some scenarios, did some
(01:37):
reporting, and we just found outthat that intelligence helped
them make better decisions.
And that year, we actually saved$50,000 that they would
otherwise have spent on actuallyon shipping, um, shipping over
the ocean.
And I said, hey, well, why don'tyou try shipping on the sea?
You but pay for it a little bitearlier.
And anyway, they saved a wholebunch of money.
Um, and so that's when Irealized that like any business
(01:59):
can can benefit from like strongfinance.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
Nice.
I it makes perfect sense.
I mean, I think a lot oftrucking companies often start
as family operated operations.
Um, how have you convinced owneroperators or uh businesses from
doing things their way over 20years or more financial
structure?
It's just important to getthings, you know, as getting
freight delivered on time.
(02:25):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (02:26):
Um, you know, I don't know that I'm like
convincing people per se, but Ithink when when I meet someone
who's frustrated with theirresults, or I meet someone who
who kind of wonders if there'smore or wants to grow or wants
to turn their business around, Ithink that kind of person kind
(02:48):
of vibes with what I do.
And and then when I say, well,you know, what what keeps you up
at night?
And they say, Oh man, I justdon't know if I can, if I got
payroll covered for threemonths, I'm like, ah, okay,
there we go.
And they're like, oh, I wish I'dhave no idea how my business is
really doing.
And I say, okay, so so then Igo, well, what if I gave you a
report that told you exactly howyou did the last three months or
(03:10):
one month?
And then what if I tell you thatwe can look over the next six
months and make some plans, andthose plans will hold up even if
something bad happens orsomething good happens, and they
go, Oh, well, that could work.
And I go, Well, yeah, that'swhat we do, right?
So so it tends to be somebodywho's ambitious.
Um, I can't convince somebodywho doesn't really want it, you
know.
unknown (03:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:31):
Absolutely.
I mean, uh, when we try toconvince people, sometimes it
comes across too salesy.
So uh just helping people, justbeing there for them is a huge
thing to to be able to be inthat position to do that.
So you're in a position to helppeople financially, I think
that's a really great place tobe.
Um, maybe people can feelvulnerable.
(03:52):
Um, you know, got their stuffout there.
Hey, I don't want to talk aboutit, but this is where I need
help, you know.
So good job.
100%.
Yeah, and so as far as financeand trucking um realities and
trucking cash can often, youknow, be 30 to 60 days after the
load is delivered.
But expenses, fuel repair,payroll, and they're all due
(04:13):
daily or weekly.
What strategies do you recommendto manage that constant
mismatch?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:21):
Well, um, I think that's one of these businesses
where you can't actually growtoo fast, right?
So if you grow too fast, youactually run out of money.
And so the the big thing that Ilike to do in these situations
where there's like delaysbetween expenses and receiving
your money back, the mostimportant one that I'll do is
(04:42):
cash flow planning and scenarioplanning, meaning we'll sort of
make a budget for a year, andlet's say they think maybe we'll
grow 20% this year.
So we'll make a plan, and we'llgo, we're gonna buy this truck
or hire these people or pay thismuch in fuel, and this is when
it's due.
And then what we do is we say,what if we do all the things and
(05:02):
we only grow 10%?
Or what if we do all the thingsand we grow 40%?
Where does the breakage occur?
And and what we're looking foris sort of breakage in margins
or cash flow or just net profit.
And when you kind of uh playwith the scenario like that, it
shows you which one of thosethings will break first.
(05:25):
And then what we do is we've welook where the breakage occurs,
what month or or when could ithappen?
And then we make we kind of diveeven deeper on the planning.
So then we might do instead of amonthly, we might do a weekly
forecast.
And we might say um for the next16 weeks, what do things look
like?
Um, and so that's that's thefoundation of it all.
(05:45):
And then there are strategies,of course.
Um, sometimes you can factoryour your receivables.
So someone will give you themoney up front and then they'll
collect the money from yourcustomer, they'll take 2% or
something like that.
So we don't want to do that ifwe don't have to.
We can.
Um otherwise, we can offer earlypayment discounts to people.
(06:07):
They don't always take them, butsometimes they will.
Um, and then good old-fashionedfollow-up, right?
So you email them five daysbefore the invoice is due, you
email them the day the invoiceis due, five days after, then
you call, then you you know, youdo all these things, then you
show up, you know.
Um, those are things thataccelerate payment timelines,
and you don't have to beheavy-handed.
(06:30):
Um, but and sometimes though,it's just the way that it goes.
And so you have to make sure youdon't grow too fast and make
sure that you have sometimes youhave better margins than others
might if you want to becomfortable in that position.
For those that are comfortablebeing uncomfortable, you can
grow fat or kind of whiteknuckle it.
But you know, those are some ofthe things I would do.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
Yeah, it kind of sounds like driving.
You know, you can do the speedlimit and get there when you're
supposed to, or you could try topush it real hard to get there,
and then you get you know, morerisk involved, and you can
actually may not even make itthere.
So speed is definitely somethinga trucker knows.
So financially, it's probablythe same.
You said about uh you mentionedbraking.
(07:11):
How do you find those brakes umwhere those vulnerabilities are
financially?
SPEAKER_02 (07:17):
Yeah.
Like I say, the first thing thatwe do for anybody when we work
together is we make a budget,essentially, right?
So the next 12 months, what doesit look like?
And we obviously base that offof what have things been looking
like with the last three to sixmonths, how are those looking?
And then we just make a plan.
So we say you've been growingwhatever, 10% per year or 5% a
(07:37):
month, whatever you've beengrowing at.
Let's add those deliveries.
And what is the capacity of thetrucks for deliveries today and
the people?
And then what we do is we set upa financial forecast that the
the next delivery that happensover and above the ones that the
truck has available, it'll addanother truck in the model.
Okay, or we can choose tocontract subcontract.
(08:00):
So we would do one of those twothings.
And when we do that, the modelbegins to be useful because it
will know when you've hit thatstep change in delivery, you
need a new truck or subcontract.
So your margins will drop, orthey'll stay the same, but
you'll have a cash outflow or anew loan or financing or some
purchase, right?
And and the way and the reasonwe do that is because you know
(08:22):
we can never really know what'sgoing to happen, but we can make
assumptions.
So we make all these assumptionsfor the next 12 months, and then
like I say, we just test them.
So you you open it up and yougo, okay, to the owner operator
or the family, you say, Doesthis look how does it look to
you?
And really you go off gut feel,right?
Because you just don't know.
And so then we get it to a pointwhere it looks good.
(08:43):
Then we say, Great, that's ourbest guess, right?
That's what we think is gonnahappen.
Then we do one where I cut somegrowth off.
And we go, based if we cut somegrowth off, do we still look
okay?
Is margins okay?
Have we hired too much?
Uh, you know, is the how's cashflow looking?
(09:04):
And then we might ratchet up gasprices or diesel prices, see
what that how that changes ourforecasts.
And we do that based off ofhistorical diesel prices, where
they are today.
We look at economic economists,economist forecasts.
Um, we can look at that.
And then we go, what if we addmore growth?
Because sometimes more growthcan be harder than the same
(09:25):
level of like stability.
So we go, okay, that grows,great.
Do we buy trucks?
Do we subcontract?
How does diesel prices look?
And we test a bunch of things,and then between those three
scenarios, we have a one wethink is going to happen, we
have a bad one, we have a goodone.
Typically, what you'll see iscash flow will have an issue or
margin will have an issue, andwe find out where the issue is.
(09:47):
So let's say, for example, yougrow too fast and it triggers
the purchase of a new truck, andyou say, ah shit, I don't have a
down payment for that, orwhatever.
So we say, Great, well, now weknow that six months in advance.
So let's go find somesubcontractors that can do some
stuff for us, and we'll make anagreement with them that, you
know, this agreement or thatagreement.
So then we'll subcontract forsix months, then we'll buy a
(10:08):
truck, let's say, as an example.
So that's some of the ways thatwe do this.
We all we just look atscenarios.
What could happen if this, whatcould happen if that?
We just test monthly.
Um, and typically the goal is tofind a problem nine months
before it occurs.
If we do that, we give peopletime to fix it before it even
happens.
SPEAKER_00 (10:28):
So it's real reality, real thinking, and real
time.
Um, I like the way you guys dothat.
Uh is it something you werealways good at with numbers, or
you just got a great team?
Uh, what really makes the magicwork for you guys, man?
It sounds like you uh got itdialed in.
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
Yeah, I mean, I came to it later in life.
I was uh I worked inmanufacturing for the first
eight years, like from 19 tolike 27, and then I worked at a
at a machine shop for a while.
And at the machine shop, whathappened was I was the quality
manager there and and I had todo some stuff with like what if
we have this many units and thatmany units, and what happens to
(11:04):
production?
And I got into spreadsheetsthere, ended up being really
good at it, uh, and then I wentinto accounting in finance.
And so after that, I only becamea CFO when I was 32.
Um, so um, but I was awesome atit, basically, right?
Like, and I worked in privateequity and I did deals, and we
we did like half a billion indeals uh with the time that I
(11:24):
was there.
So yeah, I was really good atit, but I didn't find out till
later in life.
And then, like I say, my buddycalled me and we did this for
him, and I did it for his buddyand their buddy, and you know,
my business gets kind of tookoff organically from there.
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
Nice.
Yeah, I mean that's cool whenyou got friends that trust you
and because trust is a factorwhen it comes to people's money
and finances.
Uh you don't want to just throwthose around to anybody.
So 100%.
Man, so if uh if a truckingcompany is is running at
break-even or at a small loss,where should they look first to
(11:57):
identify what's really eatingaway at their profit?
SPEAKER_02 (12:01):
I'll give you what I would do for almost anybody, I
would say, and that is the firstplace you look is something
called contribution margin.
Now I don't know, actually, I'mnot sure if that term is
familiar in trucking, but it's auseful term, so I'll break it
down.
Contribution margin is netrevenue.
So revenue minus discounting orreturns, not do you have
(12:23):
returns, but rebates or promosor whatever.
So net revenue, right?
Then you go less your variablecosts.
This is gonna be fuel uh and anyvariable cost.
Uh let's say it's gonna be likesome uh repairs or maybe tires
or brakes, things like that,like they that are that are the
more you drive, the more costyou have.
(12:44):
So fuel, uh variable cost, andso when you remove the variable
cost of supplying the service,all the variable costs, you end
up with a contribution margin.
So there's probably some hourlydrivers, there might be
subcontracts, there might beowner operators.
Um, and so anyway, as long asit's variable, you reduce your
net revenue by everything that'svariable, like everything.
(13:06):
And when you want to identifyvariable costs, the way that
those work is if you drive moreor you do more deliveries, this
cost also goes up.
Doesn't have to be at the samerate, but if it changes if you
drive more, or if it stops ifyou drive less or slows down if
you drive less, it's variable.
So you do net revenue minus allyour variable costs,
(13:27):
contribution margin.
What that means is from a dollarof revenue, how many cents do
you get to keep to cover yourfixed costs, like your admin or
your office or leases and thingslike that?
You know, those aren't gonnachange if you drive more or
less.
So, how many cents?
So, from a dollar of revenue,how many cents do you have?
The first thing I want to lookat is that.
(13:49):
Is that positive?
If it's not positive, you losemoney every time you make a
delivery, and you lose moremoney the more deliveries you
make.
So obviously we gotta look therefirst.
So, structurally, that's themost important thing I look at.
Is that in line with myindustry?
I actually don't know what it isfor trucking, um, but in CPG or
e-commerce, for example, it'slike 20 cents for every dollar
(14:09):
of revenue should be left over.
Now, from there, we have to lookat our fixed costs, right?
So uh are we covering ourleases, are we covering our
staff?
Are we covering offices?
All those different things.
And if we're not covering those,what you do next is you organize
all your expenses into threebuckets revenue generating,
(14:32):
KTLO, which means keep thelights on, and other.
And revenue generating costs, solet's say salesperson, if
they're doing a good job ormarketing or something like
that, you keep those costsbecause they bring in the money,
right?
Yeah, KTLO is keep the lightson.
So if you don't pay your trucklease, you don't have a truck,
(14:54):
so you can't make the moneyanyway.
So it doesn't generate revenue,or you could put it there too,
but but so you have to keep thethings that keep the lights on.
Utilities.
Um maybe you have enough truckswhere you have a mechanic, and
rather than paying a service,you have your own mechanic.
Well, that guy or girl keeps thelights on the trucks moving, so
you can't fire them.
And so figure out what is theKTLO costs and be hard on
(15:18):
yourself with these.
Like literally really assess theowner's salary might not be
KTLO, or the owner's wife, ormom or dad.
Sometimes those might not beKTLO.
You you pay them because you'rea good person, but you have to
be really strict about how youput these in these categories,
and then other.
Other is everything else, it'snot those two things, and you
(15:38):
just start gonna cutting otherright, and it's hard to say and
it's hard to do, and it'sterrible, but start cutting
other costs until you get to apoint where you can grow the
business and make some money.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
Yeah, reminds me of um you know, you're making a a
meal for somebody.
You you gotta really think aboutwho's all coming.
You want the head count, youwant to think about well, uh,
can we do we need all of that?
You know, so you're like you'rem making a recipe or a menu for
people to enjoy or um for abanquet.
And you know, you gotta makesome decisions.
(16:12):
Um, maybe you you want a lot ofdessert, but you can't food,
right?
Totally.
100%.
Yeah, so I mean, especially fortrucking.
Um, people say it's so hard torent a trucking company um for
you got to find a way to washmoney.
It's like, wow, I don't know.
So many variables.
But you the way you break itdown makes it seem seem easy,
(16:35):
easy to digest.
That's nice.
Um, so scaling and growth, a lotof owner operators want to add
trucks, but uh theyunderestimate the financial
impact.
You know, you see the nice shinytrucks out there from from your
experience.
Uh, what hidden costs do peoplemiss when they're scaling from
maybe say if you were to takeone to five trucks or up to ten?
(16:56):
That is really the backbone oftrucking, is those small
companies like that.
So what would you say to them?
SPEAKER_02 (17:03):
Oh man.
Um, again, I go back to a aforecast.
That's that's the foundation ofeverything that we do because
you can just you can ask, youcan, you can sort of uh assess
multiple realities in aspreadsheet, right?
And how does it look and howdoes it feel?
And and so then what you saidabout missing things, I think
(17:24):
the big one there is a realisticview on how fast growth will
happen.
Because I think for mostbusiness owners, the way that
that I see things happening isthey go, I'm gonna add this
cost, truck, person, marketing,whatever.
And we're gonna grow this muchin this time frame and then
(17:44):
we'll be fine.
But I find that the growth takeslonger to happen, typically,
maybe not for some people, butmost of the time the growth
takes longer.
And so they underestimate howlong they have to bear an
unprofitable truck for until itcovers itself.
That's what I see most often.
(18:06):
Um and I think that moresubcontracting probably can make
sense to fill up a subcontracttruck 75% or something, then buy
your new one rather than buyinga new one in advance, maybe.
Um another one I see is you knowand this is across industries
(18:27):
too, is you want the newest,latest thing when an older one
would do.
So getting an older model isprobably cheaper.
Um and so again, I understandthe desire for a nice thing, so
it's hard for me to say anythingabout that, but like you know,
sometimes you get the older one.
Um and I think the other thingis most people underestimate the
(18:48):
variable costs associated.
So, what will fuel really be?
What will the salaries reallybe?
What will maintenance really be?
And again, people havehistoricals and all that, but
fuel is probably the one whereit probably changes a bunch.
And so just make sure that yougo, okay, the truck should grow
like this, it should do this,the people costs is that, the
maintenance costs is this, andthe fuel should be that.
(19:10):
Well, what if fuel is 10% moreor less or whatever?
How does that affect your youryour profit of that particular
truck?
SPEAKER_00 (19:18):
Um I think that's what I would do.
Yeah, that's what I would dothere.
Nice.
Um what does a financial healthytrucking company look like or a
company from any industry onpaper?
Should it even um maybe is therea number or percentage that they
should look at um beforeexpanding?
SPEAKER_02 (19:39):
Um you know, I wouldn't say there's any one
number.
Uh I what does a healthy companylook like?
I think a healthy company isprofitable, typically, um, and
has cash in the bank.
So this is a tough one, but ifyou have three months of
expenses in the bank, that'sit's a pretty good place to be.
(20:01):
It feels good.
Okay.
So so I would say that for me isis one.
So you're you're making money,you're growing at a rate that
makes you not want to pull yourhair out, and you have cash in
the bank to cover surprises.
Um, and and from there, there'sa wide range of what people are
okay with.
Like some some person might beokay with just three months in
(20:24):
the bank and a little bit ofmargin, and they're gonna want
to grow fast.
Some people might want moremargin, more cash, and they'll
grow slower.
I think both are okay.
Um, but I think one big one iswhere the owner shouldn't feel
super stressed all the time,right?
Because if the owner isfirefighting or is super
(20:47):
stressed, they are gonna notthey're not gonna think
optimally, and they'll makemistakes because they're kind of
off, you know.
And so I think that again, thecompany should have cash and
have margin, but the ownershould feel good about it too.
And if they don't, they're justbound to make bad decisions just
because they're stressed andthey're not thinking right.
(21:07):
So, so I would think theownership of a business should
be healthy too.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
That's huge.
I'm um to put those two togetherlike that is great because when
you think numbers, you don'tthink that emotion really comes
in the factor, but it does.
SPEAKER_01 (21:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
Um, and you know, many truckers out there are
gonna be struggling, not justwith uh uh getting from A to B,
but um financially, and that canaffect a lot of people's
decisions.
SPEAKER_02 (21:32):
Well, let me give you an example from from myself.
So I have a I have a very goodfriend of mine, and they and he
owns a business and I own abusiness, and and we're we're
different because my wife isactually kind of okay with
taking quite a bit of risk.
So we have some loans and we'vegrown quite fast, and it's been
a little crazy, and we can't doall the trips all the time, and
sometimes it's stressful.
(21:52):
And this other friend of mine,um, his wife is less okay with
risk, meaning they have quite abit of cash saved.
And we we actually don't, um,because I'm putting in the
business, but and they they havekept cash personally, and so
they probably have well, I don'tknow how much, but a bunch of
cash personally, but he'sgrowing less fast.
Um, but we all get along withour wives, and so we're happy,
(22:16):
right?
But I'm happy in a different waybecause my wife was a bit crazy
like me, and he's happy becausehe's he's him and his wife have
made whatever decisions on cash,but he's growing less slowly,
but his relationship is good,and my relationship is good, but
I can grow faster because mywife's crazy.
Do you know what I mean?
So that's even factors in like aprism effect, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
Yeah, I get that.
All right, so and everybody'sdifferent, and like I like how
you bring in the personal effectof it all because um everybody
can't be like the other guy, youcan't compare yourself to the
next person, and um uh youdefinitely want to keep your
wife happy or your partners.
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah, so man, so running trucksand finances require long haul,
(23:01):
you know, patience.
Do you see uh any results uhwhen it comes to personality of
the people who start thesecompanies?
You know, maybe you've got torub shoulders with a lot of
people there, and when thosepeople start those companies,
they're in for the long game orum or the short term.
I mean, what what is that likebeing around individuals that
(23:22):
have this goal and they want toreach it?
But it's it's like a long, longdrawn-out plan.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:30):
Um, I got to see when I used to work in
manufacturing, I got to see abunch of trucking companies
because we we did uh scrapmetal, so they would bring us
containers like I don't know, 20a week and things like that.
And so I got to see whichcompanies were ended up doing
well and and not.
And I would say, from myperspective, the companies that
ended up doing well, um they theones that grew the most didn't
(23:53):
always have the newest trucksfor sure.
Uh and these are short haul, soI don't know about the long haul
side necessarily, but so theydidn't always have the newest
trucks.
They had drivers that builtrelationships with us, you know.
And so I think that if you canget people that build
relationships with the peoplethey're picking up stuff from or
delivering stuff to, that made adifference.
(24:15):
Um and so if you extrapolatewhat that means, I'm saying like
they're conservative financiallyand they hire great people.
Uh and I think if you can dothose two things, you can decide
do you want to be reallyaggressive with growth or not.
But I would say, from myperspective, again, conservative
financially and hire very goodpeople.
Uh you probably can't bestopped, to be honest.
(24:37):
Because like if I like this guywho's bringing me the stuff all
the time and he's just reallynice, like I'm gonna call him
back.
You know what I mean?
Uh and if the other guy's anasshole, well, maybe not, right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:48):
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Um long term, short term, yougotta start thinking bigger, you
know, five year, ten year,fifteen years.
Uh, who would people want to dobusiness with more so?
Uh someone that's you know notrude to them that treats them
right, has good customerservice, I guess it's gonna go a
lot longer instead of thatshort-term transaction.
(25:11):
So that's huge.
Yeah.
So think long term, that's agood thing that will help you
financially.
So if you were to sit down witha trucker today who has two
trucks and dreams of owning thefleet, um, what's a single piece
of financial advice you wouldwant to give them so that when
they walk away, they they'llfeel like they're empowered.
SPEAKER_02 (25:30):
The single thing I gotta come back to is make uh
make a forecast uh and and beconservative on it.
And and if you want to do it foryourself, you just just make a
spreadsheet and you go truckone, truck two, and expenses,
and and just type them all inthere.
And I just want you to seeprofit or revenue minus
(25:50):
expenses, and when you add a newtruck, um add it conservatively
so don't make it grow too fast,but add a new line, add a new
truck, add the expenses for thattruck, and just make sure that
um that it that you know ifyou're gonna lose money on it
for a little bit that you canwithstand that, and if you
can't, subcontract it.
And I think if you do that, uhthat's from my point of view,
(26:13):
again, I'm a finance guy, somuch from my point of view,
that's the first most importantthing to do.
SPEAKER_00 (26:17):
Nice.
Yeah, the stuff that peopledon't want to look at, they just
want to say, all right, I didgood on that invoice.
Yeah, we made a nice haul onthat one.
Um, so we should be out on ontop, but yeah, actually sit down
and and do some of the boringnumber crunching.
Um totally boring.
SPEAKER_02 (26:35):
It'd be exciting for some people, but for some It is
for me, but honestly, like wemeet people once a month when we
work with them, and I would say10 of 12 meetings are just
boring.
Like just you go over the stuffand you're like, okay, I didn't
learn much.
But two meetings a year, and ifyou do this for yourself, two
reviews a year, you're gonnafind something important to help
(26:57):
you make money or save money.
But 10 of the 12 are gonna beboring, and but just do the work
and it it'll get you there.
SPEAKER_00 (27:05):
Set some time uh in your schedule for doing the
stuff that needs to be done.
That'll keep you going, keepyour dream alive, keep your um,
keep yourself happy tooemotionally, because then you
got that, you're not justthinking about that.
I hope we're okay.
I hope we're okay.
So exactly.
All right, nice.
Um, that's good advice.
Uh, what is one thing you wouldlike to share with people?
(27:26):
Um, you know, I know that yourcompany does really well.
Um, what's one thing that theydon't know that you would like
to share with them?
Possibly they know, hey, if I goto these guys, they're gonna
take care of me.
SPEAKER_02 (27:38):
Um well, again, you know, we love spreadsheets,
right?
I have a team of 25 people, andone half of us are all in
spreadsheets all the time.
And so if you need some support,uh, we're here for you.
And uh, if you don't want tomake your own spreadsheets, my
team will do it.
SPEAKER_00 (27:56):
So wow.
I I can only imagine.
So you gotta do all the graphs,uh, the charts, and all the um
the commands, uh, what do theycall those formulas?
Yeah.
Yeah, some pretty coolspreadsheets there.
SPEAKER_02 (28:10):
Yeah, we have we have we have some great ones.
Uh yeah, we have some clientsthat just recently sold to a
major market player, um, and andpart of that process was
building a fancy uh forecast forthe acquirer.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:23):
Man, so when it comes to um artificial
intelligence, AI, or whatever,um, what what do you see the
future doing for that?
Are you guys uh above the reston that one, or how does it feel
for you on the forecast?
SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
Yeah, so we're we're I would say on the advanced
side, like we have our first AIemployee doing things every day,
all day right now.
And it's uh it's a clientcoordinator.
So uh we all we are as aconsultant, we're on calls all
the time.
And so this employee uh listensto all of our calls and takes
notes on action items and triesto understand like is the client
(28:59):
happy or not happy, but then ifit thinks it's unhappy, it'll
flag our customer support teamto talk to that client.
And so we have our first AIemployee.
Um, I would say people should beall in, especially for truckers.
I think um you could likely doprospecting with AI right now,
so emails or even phone calls.
Now you can do phone calls withAI for you know, hey, do you
(29:20):
need deliveries?
So on.
Um, you could do your yourreception, could probably be
replaced by AI almost fullypretty soon.
Uh, your admin, uh, a lot ofthat stuff, invoicing,
follow-up, uh all a lot of thestuff could be done with AI, and
then you'll save cost, right?
Better margins.
Um, I think it's we're quite aways off from trucks that can do
(29:43):
autonomous deliveries.
So I wouldn't be stressed aboutthat, but I would be thinking
about it and trying to figureout what company is going to do
it and how would you use it, andjust be daydreaming about that.
Um, because again, the firstpeople to figure that out,
again, your margins are gonnaskyrocket, right?
So um again, I think we'requite.
Ways off, but but just bethinking about AI, be playing
with it.
(30:03):
You should have a ChatGPT onyour phone.
And if you drive yourself, youshould be talking to Chat GPT
when you're driving, justtalking to the app.
Um, and um you know, you ask itwhat you could do next, how you
could use AI in trucking.
SPEAKER_00 (30:17):
Like that's that'll get you far far ahead of others.
Yeah, the more comfortable youare with something, uh just like
riding a bike or driving atruck, you know, um two
different things, but you know,probably feel just as
comfortable doing both.
Um I know when I started ridingthe bike, I was pretty young.
I loved I love riding around abike, man.
Yeah, so only fits that I lovedriving.
(30:39):
Um, and then when I got in asemi truck, it was big, it was
huge.
I was like, I don't know if Icould do this.
Now it feels the same just likeriding the bike.
So yeah, you want to always beaware of dangers.
But uh, I was I was kind ofafraid of uh AI.
I wonder where we'll go.
And the more conversations I getto have with people, and um the
(31:03):
more comfortable I feel aboutit.
Um I think you know, going alongthe road of hey, where will this
take me?
Um, where do I see myself?
It does spark the mind toimagine more things uh than
you're you're capable of doing.
So um it's nice to think on on apositive about it.
SPEAKER_02 (31:20):
Yeah, I mean I I I choose to be positive about AI.
There's a lot of things you canbe negative about, but I choose
to be positive.
I choose to believe in potentialpositive outcomes with AI.
Um and you know, you you justcan't know, so why not be
positive?
SPEAKER_00 (31:38):
Yeah, we'll see see where it takes us.
And I'm sure we're um as long aswe're here to experience it, I
think it's gonna be a uh ajourney worth waiting for.
So um, man, I really thank youfor talking about what you guys
do over there.
I mean, um that forecast reallysounds exciting when you when
you look at it and get thenumbers you want.
So if it's if it's a lot of badnews, I bet you is a good way to
(32:00):
get a reality check.
SPEAKER_02 (32:02):
True, right?
Like sometimes you sometimes itis bad news.
Like I had a client where we didtheir forecast, and I was like,
in all three scenarios, you'relosing money forever.
But it allowed them tore-engineer the business model
to fix it.
So gave them power back.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
Gave them power back, exactly.
Yeah.
All right, man.
Wow.
Well, thanks, Matt.
Uh, I think it's been aneye-opener.
I think a lot of truckers outthere, or even company owners.
It may not be a trucker.
Um, you may just be in theindustry, come across a podcast.
You know that that your companyis one that will uh help them
see things when it comes towealth, stability, and their
(32:37):
future.
Um, so um I'm really appreciateyou guys taking the time to do
this.
And uh thanks so much for havingme, Ray.
This is great.
Uh anything else you wanted toshare with people out there or
let them know before we go?
SPEAKER_03 (32:48):
No, no.
SPEAKER_02 (32:49):
If you if you need to get in touch with us, my
website is 8x.co e-i-g-h-c-x.co.
And if you need some help, findus there.
SPEAKER_00 (32:57):
Awesome.
And I'll put the links in thenotes, and I appreciate that,
man.
So for those who want to learnmore, uh, please reach out to
Matt and his team.
Uh, we really thank you guys forjoining us.
And uh to everyone listening,please remember trucking isn't
always just about runningfreight, it's about building
something that will last andstand the test of time.
So um get those numbers right,and uh we can see you in the
(33:18):
right areas where you need tomake the decisions to make your
business grow.
So I'm trucking Ray, and that'sdelivered.
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