September 26, 2025 • 51 mins
The freight industry is changing rapidly, and artificial intelligence isn’t just coming—it’s already here. But what does AI in logistics actually look like beyond the buzzwords? Chris Condon, founder of AirCon AI and Captain Cargo, pulls back the curtain on how these technologies are transforming freight quoting, consolidation, and routing decisions in real time.
Drawing from 26 years in logistics, Condon explains how his platforms use machine learning and large language models to help small and mid-sized freight forwarders compete with industry giants.
Key Takeaways:
✅ Smarter Predictions – AI forecasts airline on-time performance and suggests optimal routing options.
✅ Cost Savings – Consolidates shipments to reduce chargeable weight by up to 50%.
✅ Proven Results – Within 90 days of launching their AI booking agent, AirCon improved win percentage by 40% and increased revenue 2.5x.
✅ Real Solutions – Handles exceptions by providing alternative routes, pricing options, and real-time decision support when disruptions arise.
✅ Human + AI Partnership – Rather than replacing humans, AI takes on routine tasks so logistics professionals can focus on relationships and complex problem-solving.
✅ Buffalo Culture – Condon’s philosophy of protecting the herd and running toward challenges together reinforces the importance of trust in logistics.
The most powerful insight? AI won’t replace people—it makes them better. "People do business with people," Condon reminds us, emphasizing that trust remains central even as technology advances.
Ready to see how AI can transform your freight operations? Visit airconai.com
to learn how you can start competing at scale regardless of your company’s size.
Interested in being a guest on the podcast? Click here to join the conversation!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back to that's Delivered.
I'm your host, trucking Ray,and the show we have today is
going to dive into the storiesand solutions shaping the
trucking industry and freight.
Today we have a trulyremarkable guest that's helping
the trucking industry get intosomething that's not just coming
, it's already here.
It's AI and logistics, andwhile some folks think
artificial intelligence is justfor billion-dollar companies,
(00:25):
today's guest is flipping thatidea on his head.
Chris Condon is the founder ofAirCon AI, captain Cargo two
platforms using automation andpredictive analytics to change
how freight is quoted,consolidated and moved.
He's been in logistics for over26 years and now is helping
smaller companies compete likethe big guys.
We're talking real-timeoptimization, machine learning,
(00:49):
human AI, network and teamworkthat works together tech putting
power back in the hands ofindependent operators.
So let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yo Chris how you doing today.
Thanks for having me.
I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
That's awesome, man.
Yeah, so taking the time out totalk to the people, tell them
about what you do.
So I want to start from thebeginning of your background.
In freight, you've seen theindustry from all sides.
When did it first realize thatAI was just a buzzword?
But it's the real tool thatcould transfer logistics for you
and your company.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, ai is kind of funny right.
So there's lots of differentnetworks out there, there's lots
of different buzzwords andplatforms and marketplace and
all that kind of good stuff andobviously, with the launch of
LLM a couple of years ago, itreally unlocks a lot of your
traditional AI or ML, if youwill, which really excites me,
(01:47):
and I see LLM being a long-termsolution to be able to connect
the different ecospheres thatare out in the world.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Nice and maybe can you explain a little bit about
what that is for a lot oflisteners that don't know what
LLM is.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah, no worries, yeah, I'm sorry.
Llm is, you know, think OpenAI,think of chat, ptt, gronk,
right, where you can ask aquestion to the, you know, to
the platform and say what coloris Chris's hair?
It should get it very confused.
So think of those type ofthings.
So it's a large language model.
(02:23):
So it's basically be able toread emails, digest those emails
.
We take those and we digestthem into our rate optimization
or route optimization tools.
So you think about, like, howdo you consolidate with multiple
forwarders?
That's the rate engine oroptimization or optimization,
(02:46):
and then use ML, which ismachine, machine learning, and
then you can think of thingslike predictive analytics, right
.
So what is my rate going to benext month?
What are?
What's my what if?
What if the dollar or the valueof the dollar goes from
whatever it is today to 10X more?
What does that do in terms ofcapacity with the airlines,
capacity with trucks?
What does that do in terms ofcapacity with the airlines,
(03:06):
capacity with trucks?
Those type of things.
We use it today in our bookingagent for air freight to predict
the on-time performance of aparticular carrier.
So I use this scenario a lot ofMilwaukee to London, right?
Most freight forwarders aregoing to quote that over Chicago
.
Right, they're going to pick itup in Milwaukee, they're going
(03:36):
to truck it to Chicago, and thenthere's a direct flight on a
plethora of airlines Chicago toLondon carrier is picking up and
what is the probability of themmaking it on time to a
particular cut on the airline.
We also use it to give greatprobability information to
forwarders on hey, you quoted itover Chicago, but since the
(03:58):
freight's ready today, you canhit tomorrow's flight out of
Cincinnati.
Oh and, by the way, your costis 50% less costly, so we're
maximizing the profits for thefreight forwarder.
So that's really where we'reusing.
Ai is really to.
It's not it is to automatethings, for sure, but it's
really to maximize your profitsand allow that our customers to
(04:18):
spend more time with theircustomers, to meet their
customers where they're at.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Wow, that's amazing.
I mean, how did you get startedin all this with logistics?
I'm seeing 26 years, is thatright?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
26 years in logistics .
I, you know, I'm a farm boyfrom Wisconsin originally.
My, my mom was an executive atBurlington Northern, so I kind
of had a weird upbringing right.
So I had the corporate lifefrom my parents and then I also
had my, you know, the farm dairyupbringing from my, my aunt and
uncle and my and mygrandparents and I.
And when I, when I got to theage where I wanted to figure out
(04:54):
what I wanted to do, I didn'twant to, you know, use my mom's
name to, you know, I wanted tocreate my own way, for lack of a
better way.
So I fell into Tower GroupInternational had some great
mentors Bill Goodgen and PatWalsh and from there I went to
Expeditors.
Expeditors was I don't know ifyou know what Expeditors is.
(05:14):
It's a great company.
They moved me to El Paso, texas, where I was able to build what
I'm going to call a VMI program.
That was basically number onein the company when I was there
and that allowed me to see a lotof different insights to
different corporations, fromFortune you know, fortune 10
companies to mom and popshippers and buyers on what
(05:38):
their needs are.
And it's interesting to me isthat their needs are not
necessarily that different.
Interesting to me is that theirneeds are not necessarily that
different.
It's just really differentvocabulary and or different
expectations of good and bad interms of service.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Wow, that's nice.
And from there, can you tell usa little bit about the creation
of AirCon, ai and Captain Cargo?
What specific problems were youseeing in quoting and
consolidating process that madeyou say, well, we can automate
this.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, it's been kind of a journey.
So it started with the conceptof after X-Fires.
I went on and did my own thing.
I purchased the freightforwarding company called
TransTrade, ended up rebrandingthat to Tricon, which was then
bought by Visible Supply Chainand the year after that was
bought by Maersk.
Right.
(06:29):
But the idea of AirCon came upduring this particular time
because I could compete oncustoms, I could compete on
trucking, I could compete onocean, but it was very difficult
for me to compete at airfreight.
There's lots of differentreasons for that, but the main
reason is the volume andinfrastructure to consolidate.
If you understand air freight,you understand that putting
(06:51):
dense cargo with voluminouscargo reduces your chargeable
weight.
So it doesn't really matterwhat the airline is charging per
kilo if you can reduce yourchargeable weight, right.
So if you put dense withvoluminous instead of, you know
you can reduce that by 50% or so.
And so that's where the Airconthought began.
It's like how do we help smallto medium-sized freight
(07:12):
forwarders compete at scale,right?
So that's how Aircon wascreated.
We create a platform, aquote-unquote marketplace, so
freight forwarders could go in.
We're building out a network ofwholesalers and or third-party
logistic companies that we'llsupport, to give the
capabilities to our customers toeven quote.
(07:35):
A lot of people think aboutrates as being the biggest issue
, but it's really secondary ifyou don't have the capabilities
to quote it in the first place.
So, building the capabilitiesfirst, which means truckers,
which means warehouses, meansTSA, government regulation, not
to mention, obviously, airlinesthat do the middle mile right so
(07:56):
built that network and then LLMreally took off right, or was
really introduced with OpenAI,and it solved a problem that we
had.
For what we're hearing from ourcustomers, they'll say Chris,
we love your platform, we lovethe idea of getting rates within
seconds, door to airport, doorto door.
I love the idea.
(08:16):
I love the idea ofconsolidating with other freight
forwarders that they don't knowthat this is my product, but we
both win right.
So it's collaborative.
They all loved it.
But I don't want to go fill outanother website or another
platform to get rates.
(08:36):
So we use the LLM or thecreation of Captain Cargo was
really to unlock our freightforwarders onto our platform and
within the first 90 days weimproved our win percentage by
40% and we improved our revenueby 2.5x in the first 90 days and
a light bulb went off.
It's like holy smokes.
(08:57):
This is working for us.
Can you imagine if we couldsell this to the freight
forwarders so their customerscould read it?
We could plug in our network,we could plug in their network,
oh, and we can plug in maybe asecondary network.
So now the freight forwarderhas all the tools available,
(09:17):
from a capacity or capabilitystandpoint, that we can quote
24-7.
Speed to market matters morethan rate hands down.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, I think about that.
Sometimes I said, man, theyreally saw how data is valuable.
But I think after a while timeis going to surpass data because
you can't get it back.
It's going to be the truecurrency of time.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I think you nailed it on the head Time and data are
the two, and I also think it'skind of like you know, knowledge
versus wisdom, right, it's likeyou can have all the data in
the world, but if you don't havethe wisdom on how to use it,
it's just data right, that'sright.
And the timing of that.
You know what's important atthis time, like you know Timing
(10:11):
of that, what's important atthis time.
Like that scenario I talkedabout using the Milwaukee to
London there's summer schedulesout there for flights or maybe
the airport which Chicago has alot of issues in terms of, I'm
going to say, delays or waittimes and whatnot.
So, yeah, you might be quotingit over Chicago, but the trucker
is going to charge you, youknow, two or three hours wait
time, which offsets any otherbenefits that you may have,
possibly Right.
(10:32):
Um, and it's impossible for anyone person to really know what's
all out there.
Like how many trucks are in theU S?
Um, how many million differentcompanies are in the U S?
Right?
There's there's millions ofright and I think the average is
five trucks per per company.
I think is the average Um,ocean's relatively simple right,
there's 20 to 25 differentsteamship lines out there.
(10:53):
Um, there's millions oftruckers out there.
Um, there's about a thousandairlines globally.
Uh, which is also kind ofinteresting too, like how, how
can any one person really knowwhat is the best solution and
the best price in terms of allthe truckers and all the
airlines?
So that's where we come in ishow do we anchor that all
(11:16):
together?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And that's a huge optic that the little guy can
really look into and really helpthem to optimize price and
control their revenue.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
We think so we're pretty excited about it.
We just closed our fundinground in May, so we're off to
the races and we're trying toconnect all these things into
this for lack of a better wordanchor sphere, because we're not
just a marketplace, we're notjust an AI, but the AI is really
(11:51):
what unlocks it, so you as anindividual can be productive in
meeting your customers' needs.
That's really our vision.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, so let's talk about the AI revolution in
freight.
What does it actually look likeon a day-to-day basis?
Wow, an AI agent and an AIco-pilot.
There's lots of co-pilots outthere that really automate, or,
if you think about it more of akind of a I want to call scraper
(12:29):
and OCR, right.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
So it takes a document or a spreadsheet, it
scrapes it and then inputs itinto your ERP or your TMS or
whatever system you want to callthat whatnot or whatever system
you want to call that whatnot.
It will then take that,whatever your engine is, and
produce an output, and then LLMor AI will actually respond to
that.
So I see a trucker, for example, be able to say, hey, I'm
(12:57):
available in New York at thistime tomorrow, and it will then
meet it up with the loads basedon your requirements and or or
the truckers wish list.
If you will say, hey, I gotthese.
I, I predict I'm going to havethese five loads, um to mail
tomorrow.
Which ones do you want?
Or which ones do you want tobid on?
Right, depending if you thinkof a load board or those type of
(13:18):
things.
So I see email being the the usewith the use, with the use of
LLM AI, to be able tocommunicate back and forth.
So people can work on theirphone, right, so they have to
worry about APIs, they don'thave to worry about EDI, you
know, sending a file or going toa web portal right To say, hey,
what I'm thinking like a loadboard, right when hey I'm, you
(13:41):
know, for these independents of,hey, where are we going to be?
I'm going to be in Milwaukeetomorrow.
Um, here's all my requirementsand here's the loads types that
I want and it'll it'll predict.
Okay, here's, here's what youneed to have.
Here's on this one or that one.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
That's amazing.
That's going to save a lot oftime.
It's going to save a lot oftime.
It's going to help a lot ofpeople out there that are just
grinding it to kind of put thosepieces of the puzzle together
themselves.
They can kind of do it rightthere.
So nice, Nice job.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I appreciate that.
I think the real benefit isagain when you're selling.
Obviously, as a trucker, you'reselling it to people that are
looking for those loads.
The real value in my mind isthat person that sources those
loads.
Now they have time to reallyunderstand what the requirements
are.
Right, is it time?
Is it cost?
Is it you know how much fuelthey use?
(14:32):
Right, whatever's important tothat buyer.
They can have more time to dowhat things are important to
them, not matching who needs tobe with what to meet those
requirements, okay.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
And so I'm thinking about the future.
What do you see that kind ofevolving to for a lot of
companies or drivers?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Huh, yeah, From a driver standpoint, I might want
to put a stick in that for asecond, because I don't think
for them it changes from adriver so much, with the
exception of maybe they don'thave the paperwork right, Maybe
they have a tablet or a phonethat takes pictures of PODs.
I always kind of laugh whenpeople say, hey, I need 48 hours
to give you a POD 2025, youneed 48 hours to bill me with
(15:20):
the POD.
Come on, that's just a.
That's a scam, right.
But I do see the industrychanging in terms of how they do
quote unquote brokers, right.
When you think of companiesthat are your traditional
brokers.
How do you maximize that loadfor the carrier?
(15:42):
Right, Partial loads to LTL,and I guess maybe that's where I
see most of it is the LTL sideof it.
Right Is hey, I got these 10shipments out of Chicago that
need to get to Dallas, right,Pick them up at.
You know I'm gonna say yellowbecause we know yellow is no
longer available.
Pick up from yellow's dock andmove it to roadway's dock in
(16:06):
Dallas, right, and it's anindependent carrier or asset
that moves that and the techcontrols that and consolidates
to maximize backhauls and orwhatnot.
So drivers aren't driving.
You know a thousand miles toget a load.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Gotcha.
Yeah, that'll definitely savecosts for the end user where
shipping can be more affordable.
I like that.
So, man, it just kind of easesthe fears People like to
clickbait.
They like to get people nervouswhen they hear AI because
they're thinking that it's goingto replace jobs.
But you've said it's enhancedthe human role.
(16:44):
How do you see humans and AIworking together in freight
without pushing people out?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, I think it's kind of interesting I see people
being an integral part of that.
Touch on again what isimportant to this particular
shipment, what is important tothis particular company.
What is important to thisparticular company?
Right, when people talk aboutculture.
Right, if you're, if you're inthe automotive industry, you
can't fail.
Right, if the cost of not beingon time far outweighs, you know
(17:16):
, putting a team driver on it.
Or or chartering a plane manytimes Right, chartering a plane
many times right.
So those things are more.
It's more important there.
Or medical, right?
Hey, I need to have thismedicine delivered at this time,
right.
So I think the data that wecollect and then matching the
best party with the assets,that's where the magic happens
(17:39):
with AI.
But AI is only good as what thepeople feed it, right?
So if you're thinking about,like, from an air con
perspective, is we have threeoptions, right, we have the
cheapest, we have the fastestand then the most value, right,
the most value, well, what isthat?
Right?
Like, my value and your valueis two different things in terms
(17:59):
of what we think of that right,but each customer has a
different value.
So, like I use an example allthe time of, let's say, dallas
to Joburg, south Africa, and weflew it over London, which 29%
of all freight out of the USgoes over London.
So this isn't a trade secret ofany kind.
(18:21):
But let's say it misses itsconnecting flight out of London
and the next available flight onthat airline that we picked
isn't for three days.
But we can reroute it on to,let's say, british Airways that
has lots of flights out ofLondon to Joburg, but it's going
to cost an extra 10 grand.
Well, as a freight forwarder,that's a hard conversation if I
(18:43):
need to do it at 3 am in themorning to make that next cut.
So one of our AI what does isokay.
Here's all your solutions.
Here's what it'll cost you foryour solutions.
Hey, mr Buyer in Joburg, sorryI missed your flight.
There was a flat tire or engineblew out, whatever the logic is
.
Here's your solution.
(19:03):
Which one do you, buyer, do youwant?
Do you need it there bytomorrow?
I can put it on a BA flight inthe next three hours and get it
to you, or it's rebooked on theVirgin flight, which is three
days from now, and if it's inthe automotive world, it's very
possible that it's worth the$10,000 to get there today or
(19:25):
not, right and leave it as is,and life is good, but we're
giving the information back tothe buyer or the person that
ultimately needs or is buyingthe product, right, what is
their need and expectations forthat shipment?
That also means like hey, if Idon't need it there in the next
(19:46):
three to five days, I need itthere in the next seven to 15
days.
Maybe I'm pricing out on acarrier flight UPS, dhl, fedex,
type right that we know thecargo isn't first priority, so
it may get bumped, but hey, it'sokay because I only need it
there faster than ocean, right,as a buyer.
(20:06):
So price isn't always the issue, it's what's the requirement,
and that is known by talking toyour customers, right, Knowing
what their needs are,understanding their expectations
, and AI helps you with data tobe able to have that
conversation.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That's amazing.
It gives a big picture aboutall the moving parts.
Like you said, you touch on alot of different industries.
You can see a lot of differentthings.
Because you've been around theindustry for so long, you can
see that and understand that,and now you're able to pass it
on to the guy like myself thathas maybe not be able to see all
(20:42):
those moving parts.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
He's busy podcasting, so I'm not, I'm not sure which
which swim lane is better, butuh, I do enjoy talking about it
for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's really great.
Um, yeah, Also, there's somereal time decision-making that
you're talking about.
There's a huge leap forcompanies using this.
So, uh, reaching these markets.
You know how does AI giveoperators, especially smaller
ones, the edge when it comes tothis moving fast, you know, not
(21:15):
losing time and when rates areunpredictable, or you're you
know for, also for your platform, Captain Cargo or Aircon AI.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, I think that's an interesting question because
I think it's multifaceted.
When you think about AI, it'shappening.
I'm talking to the largestfreight forwarders in the world,
talking about from a pitchstandpoint.
Hey, would you guys want thisand lead this?
Um?
Three of the top five, umlargest freight forwarders in
(21:48):
the world told me, chris, you'redoing exactly what needs to be
done.
We're just doing it ourselvesbecause we're on our own
ecosystem our own, we haveenough volume, we have enough
money.
Um, we're going to build itourselves, and so everyone else.
This is where we come in.
Like, how do we help thesmaller, medium-sized freight
forwarder, even a larger one?
(22:08):
When I say larger, it's multi.
You know, $10, $15, $20 billion.
How do we leverage that?
So we maximize capacity withthe airline, because once that
airline flies, that capacity isout of the market.
So how do we do that?
And that's where AirCon comesinto play.
We are connecting these two,but not competing against the
(22:33):
two.
Right, if that makes sense,we're trying to leverage the
freight forwarder as the mainperson or main identity that has
really the control with thebuyer or shipper.
Right, not the airline.
Right, so, not the airline and,to be fair, not the trucker.
Right, because we want tomaximize the capacity, we want
to maximize the rate, we wantthe trucker to make money, we
(22:54):
want the airline to make moneyand we want the freight
forwarder to make money.
But we don't just want to take,we're trying to leverage and
make, hey, what's the bestpossible solution?
And the scenario that I talk alot about is Aircon.
Aircon has our IATA.
We have the ability to bookcargo.
In fact, we book a ton of cargoWell, more than a ton.
We do about 200 to 300 tons amonth currently that we're
(23:17):
booking on airlines today andwe're considered sometimes a
co-loader or a consolidator or awholesaler whatever that term
you want to use there.
Well, there's competitors outthere, right?
There's AMI, there's AWA,there's UAC, there's Shipco,
aircon.
Really, what we're trying to dois leverage those two together,
(23:39):
all of them together.
And hey, who has the best rateas a buyer from Dallas to Sydney
?
Well, that may be Aircon, thatmay be AMI, that may be Shipco,
that may be AWA, don't care,because we want to leverage and
make sure the freight forwarderis making as much money and
exceeding their customers'expectations, right?
So it's a fundamental shift interms of how people think in the
(24:01):
industry versus they're acompetitor, they're a wholesaler
, they're the first mile,they're the trucker.
Right, how do we bring that alltogether?
And that's AeroCon Nice.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
What's one of your biggest missions?
To bridge and gap the gap forsmaller players, for independent
forwarders.
How exactly does your tech helpthem complete the global?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
A couple of different ways.
One is is you don't have to bein a.
You know we can partner andagain, we can move it on our
IATA If the moving the movingother cargo air con has the
ability to do that eitherthrough air con, through a
network, wholesale.
So we're unlocking that for thesmall to medium-sized freight
forwarder who has a relationshipwith the buyer.
So we strongly believe thatpeople do business with people
(24:52):
and as long as everything isrelatively the same in terms of
price, people will always choosesomeone they trust, someone
that knows has their back whenthey you know they have a
problem.
My freight's stuck in London.
I need it here, you know, insix hours because my line's down
situation.
Someone that shows empathy interms of I got it, here's all
(25:15):
your solutions.
Oh, by the way, it's going tocost you $10,000 more to have
that honest conversation is sopowerful in this space.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, yeah, because it affects their company, their
brand, the customers that theydeal with.
I mean it's a huge web thatthey're involved in and so that
conversation is going to be feltnot just between the two.
I mean that's a lot of trust,like you said, it's huge in in
the industry, in the truckingindustry, when you know I feel
(25:47):
that as a driver, you know whenI have responsibility, uh, when
I'm out there on the road andaround all these other drivers,
that's my, my duty to to be aguardian of the road, not to
take it lightly.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
So I told you what you're saying absolutely, and
and and I think a lot of thesetexts with.
Again, what kind of separatesaircon from everybody else and
or most most other brady else,is the fact that we are, we live
it, right.
So I'm a freight forward atheart.
I move, you know, lots of airfreight.
Earl wakefield, one of ourco-founders, lived it right.
(26:19):
He was a gateway manager, uh,for many years.
Out of dallas.
Our cto, dennis um has beenwriting ml, or predictive
analytics, for 15 years, right,um, he could predict the next uh
pitch an mlb baseball game in a95 accuracy and this is before
the whole, you know, beating onthe drum standpoint, right, um.
(26:41):
So we live it, we know it, andI'll give you examples.
You know there's airports thatyou know are trying to do this
appointment setter setting thingat the at the ground handlers,
right, well, what they don'tthink of is that these freight
forwarders, for a lot of times,will use two or three drivers or
trucking companies, and so thatone trucking company might have
(27:03):
five or six freight forwardersthat they need to pick up at
American Airlines today.
But the system was designed forone forwarder, one shipment,
one driver, right, but thereality is it's one driver, 10
or 15 different pickups tomaximize that driver's time and
that company's assets, if youwill right, because you don't
(27:26):
want to go to the same place 10times in a day.
You want to go to AmericanAirlines once.
I want to go to BA once.
I want to go to China Airlinesonce.
Right, and so, as someone thatcame from the freight forwarder,
we understand the challengesthat freight forwarders run into
and that's the problem we'resolving trying to solve that
freight forwarders run into, andthat's the problem we're
(27:46):
solving, trying to solve man.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
so you've introduced the concept of gateway as a
service.
That's something new.
Can you explain what that meansas how it might apply to beyond
air freight or into groundlogistics and regional trucking
networks?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah.
So I kind of split into twodifferent things import-export.
So on the export side, gatewayas an air freight is considered
a.
It's a warehouse where weconsolidate or build ULDs.
Right, we got to screen thecargo, we maximize the what we
call the pallet, which you knowtakes basically six standardized
40 by 48 pallets, and we buildit up, we wrap it.
(28:25):
You may see these when you'rein the airline.
They usually have nets on them,those things.
So that's what a gateway does.
But the real benefit is that,again, you're maximizing the
consolidation but you're alsodoing that negotiation with the
vendor or the asset personversus the customer, the buyer,
(28:48):
right.
So the freight forwarder, we,we believe that there's there's
two distinct skill sets.
One is to make sure yourcustomers are happy and one is
making sure your vendors are areare happy, honest and meeting
the expectations you need tomake your customer happy.
And those are two differentskill sets, vocabularies,
(29:08):
mindsets, and so we are takingreally that back office logic of
hey, how do we manage andleverage airlines, whatnot?
So the freight forwarder canmake more money or retain its
customers by meeting theirexpectations but, more
importantly, by being able todeliver on what they say they
(29:32):
can deliver.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Wow, let's take a second.
You know data and using it andtrusting AI, especially with
your platform.
How do you help people see thatyou know that time sensitive or
touching the information with.
They're kind of maybe wearyabout AI systems making
decisions.
How do you help them feel atease with that?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So we have.
So we're just starting with,we're starting with a quoting
agent on the air export and airimport side of things.
So what we've done to help easeis hey, we don't have to
respond to your customer rightaway, right, your customer
doesn't know it's us, theybelieve it's you right, we're
responding as you right.
But to ease your pain or easeyour fear is, we'll set it up
(30:18):
the first 30, 60 days or howeverlong you want to do.
It is we'll just respond toyour ops team or your quote team
right until you feelcomfortable with our responses.
To then go to your customers,we have an admin board that
tells you your win percentages,um, it tells you your, your
lanes.
You're winning at lanes, you'renot at.
Um.
We will, in time, be able togive you market uh analytics.
(30:40):
Um, if you think of the CNSIATA data that you get, it's
really airport to airport.
It doesn't really say door toairport type information Like,
if you look at some of thosedata, it shows Anchorage, alaska
, is the largest airport in theUS for freight and obviously
it's not Obviously it's a placewhere people or airlines land
(31:04):
and or take off for refuelingpurposes right from a
trans-Pacific standpoint.
But we would like to give thatdata on Joburg, wherever they
you know they're looking to move, their manufacturing or their
(31:28):
source for their cargo is, wewill be able to give you the AI
will be able to give you, hey,here's kind of predictive
analytics on capacity rate,on-time performance out of those
regions.
Because, again, it's not like atrucker right where I can say,
hey, your route was Chicago toDallas.
(31:48):
I know you have some, some,some regulatorial things where
you gotta can't rest today oryou need to rest today, so why
don't you pick it up tomorrow?
The airlines are gone, right,it's, you know, they're
scheduled at four o'clock,they're leaving at four
o'clockclock.
That capacity is out of themarket.
Um, I can't ask a driver towait 30 minutes.
I can't ask, you know, theairline to wait for me, and that
(32:12):
create creates, uh, what I callleakage or unnecessary cost,
right, um, where we can maximizethat again.
So maybe it's vendor a orcustomer a or customer b that,
hey, I don't need it on thisnext flight, but if, if you have
space, put it on, great right.
So it's a win for the win forthe airline, it's a win for the
(32:33):
freight forwarder, it's a winfor um, everybody involved,
because we maximize thatcapacity, right, we?
We as much as we possibly could, and that's where it goes,
where we're not competingagainst each other, right.
So it's not American Airlinesagainst British Airlines or
Swift versus Knight which, yes,I know they're the same, but
(32:54):
it's not UPS versus FedEx, it'snot DHL.
It's what's best for the buyer,and I think that's
fundamentally different whatwe're doing, what everybody else
is doing, where they'recreating tools for things that
you already have or what you own.
So, if you look at ourquote-unquote competitors out
there, it's built for theirnetwork, like who is their agent
(33:19):
in London?
Who is their agent in Dallas?
Who is their trucker in Dallas?
Who is their trucker in Dallas?
Who is their trucker in Chicago?
What we're trying to do, or whatwe're building, is hey, great,
you have, you know, you haveYellow in Chicago.
You know Yellow's charging,their on-time performance is
only 72%, where FedEx or UPS is98% on-time, but they charge you
(33:45):
a little bit more.
So here's more data, here'smore information.
Mr Freight Forwarder or MrsFreight Forwarder, what do you
want to do to best beat yourcustomer?
And that's how AI is used Froma data standpoint.
It's used to allow you to makebetter decisions to either
maximize your on-timeperformance, your KPIs for your,
(34:06):
for your customer, or maximizeyour profits.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I don't know why, but I keep, when you're you're
talking, I think, about golf.
You know meeting at tee timeand you know you gotta some.
Some golfers are right-handed,you know they're different
height.
You know, if you buy just astandard golf clubs, you know
your, your pitch and your angle,um, trying to get that ball in
the air, uh, just the right way.
I mean, man, that's, uh, it's alot of things to think about, a
(34:33):
lot of decisions to put in play, and people have been doing it
for years.
And you go out there and you'reyou're trying to hit your, your
ball and there's a team behindyou waiting and they're trying
to get get going.
I mean, man, yeah, that's a lotof moving parts, um, that a lot
of people don't see when they,when you pass a golf course, you
don't see all those movingparts yes, I think that's a
great way to say it.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Like to give you an idea, there's 14 different
companies and or departments orpeople that touch every air
freight shipment, from the quoteto delivery.
14 different organizations,slash companies, slash people,
touch that or have something todo with those shipments.
So you think about thefragmentation that happens from
(35:15):
again, the $5 to $10 milliontrucks that are around the US to
the government regulatorialthings that you have to comply
with, to the airlines.
What is their schedule?
It's complex and they all aretrying to keep everything by
themselves.
So that's why we're trying tocreate this anchor sphere that
brings it all together.
(35:36):
And I love the golf analogy.
That is fantastic.
I love that.
That's probably why I drink somuch beer when I golf is that I
can't hit the damn ball.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Hey, that's another cool part about golfing too.
It's multi-class, that's right.
Yeah, so that's amazing, youknow, and so you get to see a
lot of different things, and Ireally hope that it's a
successful launch and gettingthis out to everybody and so
they can use it as much aspossible.
So I appreciate you coming totalk on this.
You know, one thing also is,when you think about the market
(36:08):
and how volatile it's beenlately, you know real fluid.
How does your platform adapt?
Can AI really keep up with theshifting freight rates capacity
that you have to do, you have tocrunch it.
You know it's some loads thathave to go.
What about that chaos have youseen?
You know, post-2020?
.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, what's kind of interesting is, I think the
chaos is just part of the game,right, particularly from a rate
perspective.
There hasn't been anything thathas surprised me in terms of
rates.
That has surprised me in termsof rates and I think of trucking
right, when the pandemic hit,you know people, maybe I'll say
(36:52):
it a different way we don't havea rate issue.
We either have a capacity issueor a paying issue, right?
Is there's enough resources outthere to drive trucks around
the US if we want to pay for it?
Right?
The pandemic is a perfectexample of that is how many
companies were started duringthe pandemic when the rates were
(37:13):
just off the charts, right?
I mean, I don't even know whatthe average rate per mile was,
but it was expensive, right.
Probably 3 to 4x what it istoday, maybe even 5x, right, in
a lot of cases.
And that's really how do we?
Where the AI comes in is how dowe predict some of these things
in real?
And when I say predict the nextthree days, the next seven days
(37:35):
, and that comes just more dataand sharing of that data, right,
and then what changes that?
Right, what kind of disruptionIs it?
A disruption in the ocean?
The disruption in the economy.
Is it a disruption in theeconomy?
Is it the?
Is it the economy in terms ofthe dollar valuation?
So is it for us?
Obviously, I think a lot of theexport international piece of it
, import, export side of it.
(37:55):
So I think about okay, well,where are they buying it from?
Um, but the trucking side of itis is is always kind of
interesting to me, because if wewant to pay for it, because we
want on-time delivery or whatnot, we can get people to do it
right.
But it's when we don't want topay for it and then we switch as
(38:15):
a consumer base hey, we want itcheaper.
Well, now it becomes more aboutthe rate per mile or rate per
unit and whatnot, and the JITportion.
I'm sorry if I'm rambling here,but I think all these things
tie into the rates right, as wehave concepts of we just want
(38:36):
inventory JIT, right, whichmeans we've got to have more
reliability in our supply chain,which means we're okay paying a
little bit more for theseroutes because we want to make
sure the driver's taken care ofevery single time home, when
their home time's important tothem and excuse me my ignorance,
but whatever else is importantto that driver's life is how do
(39:01):
we get the best fit, the bestdriver with the best route right
?
Because, again, these five orsix things are important to me.
I only want to work three orfour days out of the week.
I want to be home three or fourdays out of the week.
Okay, so that's this route.
Well, maybe one customerdoesn't have all that freight to
keep that driver occupied andor efficient enough, so the
(39:25):
company can make money, drivercan make money and, more
importantly, the buyer ismeeting or exceeding that
expectation, so we can continuethat route right.
And that's where I think AIreally comes into play is okay,
how do we have A to B, a to B,and then how do we have C to D?
That may be three or fourdifferent buyers, but how do we
(39:50):
connect that through tech right,so it's a win-win for everybody
involved.
That's really the when I thinkof AirCon, that's really what I
think about is is how does a winfor everybody that's involved,
how does it benefit or add value, win for everybody that's
involved, how does it benefit oradd value to whatever they're
doing?
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Wow, yeah, I can see that.
No, thank you, that's amazing.
I think, uh, I think that's soimportant.
I mean, on time delivery wasthe main thing back in the days,
but it's not as much anymore.
Like you said, it's up to thatindividual that it's important
to and what their needs are andwhat their desires and what
they're trying to accomplish,and so we can hone in on that
(40:30):
with AI, you know.
So that's amazing.
Great job, guys.
Keeping up man On the flip side.
You know what's one myth youknow flip it for about AI or in
logistics that drives you crazythat some people totally
misunderstand.
Maybe we can clear some of thatup right now.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
That 99% of the people that say their AI is not.
It just pisses me off.
Like, oh, I'm an AI.
It's like dude, you're scraping.
All you're doing is scrapingdata and putting it in.
Yeah, you're automating.
But that's not real In my mindand I'm sure in some world it is
.
But there's so many companiesout there saying they're doing
(41:08):
this or they're doing that, andthen we go look into them.
It's like, really Like, okay,you're a tool, like I mean that
no, I shouldn't say that thatsounded bad.
You're a tool.
You're trying to solve aproblem with a tool.
You're not.
Yeah, so you get.
Why.
I didn't want to say it thatway, but it's, it's really a
tool, and a lot of them is.
(41:30):
Is what I say is a?
It's kind of like the, thestructure, abc, abc type
structure in terms of hey, Ihave a shipment, what do I do?
Right, so it's very textbook,right, okay, go get a quote.
Hey, some MBA person said goget three quotes because that's
the best way to get your, yourrates down, which there's some
(41:51):
truth to that, but more myththan truth.
Best way to get your rate down.
Okay, then you put it into thissystem, then you do this.
Oh, then you got to create acommercial.
Whatever the process is, it'svery good at automating it once
you have the shipment, butnobody does the art of the deal,
if you will, or art of gettingthe business or winning the
(42:13):
business, and nobody is reallydoing the exception part of it,
right, there's some visibilitytools out there that says, hey,
your container's stuck in LA,who cares?
Right, just because I knowwhere it's at, it doesn't give
me any value.
My value is okay, it's stuck inLondon.
Okay, now what?
(42:34):
Right?
What are my options?
Because something went wrongand something always goes wrong
in logistics, especially whenit's hot, especially when you
know I need it here and you knowmy line's down situation.
Stuff always happens, right,because, again, there's 14
different people involved in anair freight shipment, right, so
a lot of things have to go right, and so when one of those
(42:56):
things go wrong, it's a rippleeffect of downstream issues,
right, and that's where wereally want to live.
Right, obviously, we're dealingthe booking side of it, right
Booking with the trucker,booking with the airline,
booking you know, notifying ASNsand all that kind of good stuff
.
But the real magic is on thefront and the back end of those
(43:17):
of the transaction.
How do I win it?
What are my options?
What are my routes?
Hey, buyer, what's important toyou?
And then the third agent thatwe have, which is our exception
agent, is okay, I got visibilityand here's your options to help
fix your problem.
If it is a problem, it may notbe a problem, but if it is a
(43:39):
problem, how do you fix it?
Right, and that's where I thinkmost people or most companies
that say, hey, we have an AI forlogistics or AI for
transportation or whatever termwe want in there, they just
don't get it.
They're doing a piece of it.
They're not getting that thing.
That really kind of pisses meoff, because when we're selling
our services to customers, oh, Ineed to get two or three other
(44:01):
customers out there.
Okay, go ahead, there isn't anyright?
And I've looked at all of them,right?
So, in fact, I want to use, Iuse half of them that you're
talking to, right?
So, because our one agent has25 agents underneath it that are
supporting the courting agent,right?
So that's my biggest.
I don't know the thing thatirritates me the most.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, I hope that that gets clarified.
You know, you think about, youknow the misconceptions that are
out there.
A lot of times it's socialmedia or something else that's
putting it out there just sothat people can click on it, but
that's real time talk rightthere.
I mean that's putting peopleright in the action so that
people can click on it, butthat's real-time talk right
there.
I mean that's putting peopleright in the action so that they
can see that there's a lot morethat goes on behind the scenes
than just when you say I do AIor I have AI, so it makes sense.
(44:47):
I totally get it.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
The challenge with that is all the marketing side
of it and all the you know thinkof.
Like LinkedIn or other socialmedia.
You know how your posts getpromoted is an original thought,
right?
So if you're trying to dosomething that's original, it
doesn't get caught and you knowit doesn't do the you know go
viral if you will which is achallenge in that messaging
standpoint, but I like your golfone.
(45:11):
I'm going to give that to mymarketing team and say hey, what
if we're like?
Think of it like a golf, acountry club or a golf, whatever
right, and see how they run.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Wow, I like that.
Yeah, so you know thinkingabout things, we like to keep it
actionable.
What's one simple first stepthat someone can take?
If they're listening to thispodcast and you know they're
thinking about things, they'retrying to brainstorm something
that they could do this weekthat could start keeping their
freight operation modernizing,even if they're not tech people.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, they go to airconaicom and, of course, we
can do a demo, we can show it,we can have you up and running
relatively quick on the air sideof it.
Soon will be airconai.
We are consolidating ourcaptain cargo and an aircon into
a anchor sphere, if you will.
Um, because part of that, partof part of our marketing is
(46:07):
really to identify or to explainwhat we're actually building,
because it's not just just, likeI said earlier, like everybody
else, um, so, yeah, or you canreach me at sales at airconaicom
.
Would love to chat with you.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Yeah, I mean I feel your pain on that one, because
getting an idea into someone'smind is probably it can be
difficult, sometimes it's easy.
But from a new idea standpoint,it has to give birth into the
mind and has to actually growand otherwise something else can
take it away.
(46:44):
People's attention goeselsewhere.
I mean that's it can be achallenge nowadays because
there's so much informationflooding people, but yet those
ideas are important for us togrow and to learn.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
And identify what's what.
Like, we've interviewed someone.
Uh, you know we're hired.
We hire engineers, obviously,and, um, I had, uh, one of the
engineers who could clearly say,or or see that they were
interviewing and listen to AIand they were telling, you know,
the AI was telling them whatthe uh to say until you got to
technical stuff to say, untilyou got to technical stuff, and
(47:16):
I was like, oh, I don't know howto do this stuff.
There's a lot of weird stuffout there.
Um, people are trying to takeadvantage of it.
A lot of competing priorities,to your point.
Um, but we're here to help.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Wow, the real deal.
I mean I love that you guysreached out, be on the show and
I hope the more people can alsounderstand that, hey, there's a
lot more to logistics out there.
You just got to be able towilling to give it a try, like
you said, just reach out to youguys and get you set up to be a
game player.
You know, and they got greatguys like yourself out there
(47:47):
that are working hard at it.
Man, you're like I said, youknow you're a great individual
doing great things out there.
You know Minnesota andWisconsin, britain and America
yeah, and Wisconsin, americayeah.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Go, Pat go.
But I do love Aaron Jones.
So just for the record, he's anEl Paso kid right.
So a lot of love for Aaron, andso I root for Minnesota too.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Nice, nice.
Yeah, we, we need some loveover here.
Man, minnesota just loves toget you worked up.
And then, all of a sudden, whathappened?
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Right, what happened.
Very true, man.
I appreciate you very much and,yeah, I'm looking forward to
the NFL season starting here ina couple months, right so?
And trying to hang out with thefamily, which I really enjoy.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah, time goes by so fast.
Oh it, it's crazy, especiallywhen you're working so hard.
Uh, keep everything moving.
I mean I can't imagine everyweek, the week, what it's like
for yourself there.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
I mean, what is it like to be you?
Speaker 1 (48:47):
sometimes you know what do you all right it's uh,
the brain doesn't shut off.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
That's kind of the uh front of the challenges.
You're always thinking aboutokay, well, what if?
And and part of the challengeis you're always thinking about,
okay, well, what if?
And part of being a startup isto be able to hone that in and
to okay, here is what trackwe're on, and we're going to
stay on this track until ourcustomers tell us, hey, we're on
the wrong track.
We're going to continue downthis path.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yeah, just real quick .
What's the code of conduct?
You got behind you, I like thatBuffalo culture.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
So I don't know if you know much about buffalo
culture, but yeah, I'd love to.
You can click on that or youcan Google that.
But really it's aboutprotecting the herd.
It's about hey, we're okay withconflict as long as it's what's
best for the company.
We protect each other, we pullthe luck and it's really
(49:44):
everything about buffalo justhow they, which I think is a
beautiful creature how they justlive.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
that's really what we want to live here at AirCon.
Hey, I like that.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, I have to check it out,man, I have to be honest.
Yeah, that was new for me.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
So, yeah, I'll check it out.
We always find a way we headtowards a storm, right, or some
of the, the, the sound bites, ifyou will, that I really enjoy,
right.
It's like, hey, we got aproblem, we're trying to solve a
problem that's massive, we'reheading into the storm together,
right, um and uh, we're it withall about what's best for us,
what's not necessarily best forthe individual great job.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
well, chris, I really appreciate you being on the
show.
Um, we'll break it down foreveryone here.
You know, everyone knows how toreach out to you guys.
So if there's a way that you'reapplying AI that doesn't work
or, like you said, isn't justsmart, it's about learning to be
empowering AI.
It's actually giving optionsthat work.
(50:35):
So you're giving small andmid-sized and even large
companies the tools that theymay need to fight above their
weight class, so that'ssomething that we all can
respect.
So thank you for doing that andfor anyone that's listening out
there, please check out AirconAI, captain Cargo, and
(50:56):
especially if you want to takethe guesswork out of the grunt
work and the delays out of yourquoting and consolidation game.
So a lot of great informationhere, and there's more yet if
you peer into it.
So thank you so much for beingon the show.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
I appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
All right, thank you.
So this is the future offreight, and it's more
accessible than you think.
Until next time.
This is that's Delivered.
Stay sharp, stay safe and keepdriving the industry forward.
Welcome back to that's Delivered.
I'm your host, trucking Ray,and the show we have today is
going to dive into the storiesand solutions shaping the
trucking industry and freight.
Today we have a trulyremarkable guest that's helping
the trucking industry get intosomething that's not just coming
, it's already here.
It's AI and logistics, andwhile some folks think
artificial intelligence is justfor billion-dollar companies,
(00:25):
today's guest is flipping thatidea on his head.
Chris Condon is the founder ofAirCon AI, captain Cargo two
platforms using automation andpredictive analytics to change
how freight is quoted,consolidated and moved.
He's been in logistics for over26 years and now is helping
smaller companies compete likethe big guys.
We're talking real-timeoptimization, machine learning,
(00:49):
human AI, network and teamworkthat works together tech putting
power back in the hands ofindependent operators.
So let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yo Chris how you doing today.
Thanks for having me.
I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
That's awesome, man.
Yeah, so taking the time out totalk to the people, tell them
about what you do.
So I want to start from thebeginning of your background.
In freight, you've seen theindustry from all sides.
When did it first realize thatAI was just a buzzword?
But it's the real tool thatcould transfer logistics for you
and your company.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, ai is kind of funny right.
So there's lots of differentnetworks out there, there's lots
of different buzzwords andplatforms and marketplace and
all that kind of good stuff andobviously, with the launch of
LLM a couple of years ago, itreally unlocks a lot of your
traditional AI or ML, if youwill, which really excites me,
(01:47):
and I see LLM being a long-termsolution to be able to connect
the different ecospheres thatare out in the world.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Nice and maybe can you explain a little bit about
what that is for a lot oflisteners that don't know what
LLM is.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yeah, no worries, yeah, I'm sorry.
Llm is, you know, think OpenAI,think of chat, ptt, gronk,
right, where you can ask aquestion to the, you know, to
the platform and say what coloris Chris's hair?
It should get it very confused.
So think of those type ofthings.
So it's a large language model.
(02:23):
So it's basically be able toread emails, digest those emails
.
We take those and we digestthem into our rate optimization
or route optimization tools.
So you think about, like, howdo you consolidate with multiple
forwarders?
That's the rate engine oroptimization or optimization,
(02:46):
and then use ML, which ismachine, machine learning, and
then you can think of thingslike predictive analytics, right
.
So what is my rate going to benext month?
What are?
What's my what if?
What if the dollar or the valueof the dollar goes from
whatever it is today to 10X more?
What does that do in terms ofcapacity with the airlines,
capacity with trucks?
What does that do in terms ofcapacity with the airlines,
(03:06):
capacity with trucks?
Those type of things.
We use it today in our bookingagent for air freight to predict
the on-time performance of aparticular carrier.
So I use this scenario a lot ofMilwaukee to London, right?
Most freight forwarders aregoing to quote that over Chicago
.
Right, they're going to pick itup in Milwaukee, they're going
(03:36):
to truck it to Chicago, and thenthere's a direct flight on a
plethora of airlines Chicago toLondon carrier is picking up and
what is the probability of themmaking it on time to a
particular cut on the airline.
We also use it to give greatprobability information to
forwarders on hey, you quoted itover Chicago, but since the
(03:58):
freight's ready today, you canhit tomorrow's flight out of
Cincinnati.
Oh and, by the way, your costis 50% less costly, so we're
maximizing the profits for thefreight forwarder.
So that's really where we'reusing.
Ai is really to.
It's not it is to automatethings, for sure, but it's
really to maximize your profitsand allow that our customers to
(04:18):
spend more time with theircustomers, to meet their
customers where they're at.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Wow, that's amazing.
I mean, how did you get startedin all this with logistics?
I'm seeing 26 years, is thatright?
Speaker 2 (04:30):
26 years in logistics .
I, you know, I'm a farm boyfrom Wisconsin originally.
My, my mom was an executive atBurlington Northern, so I kind
of had a weird upbringing right.
So I had the corporate lifefrom my parents and then I also
had my, you know, the farm dairyupbringing from my, my aunt and
uncle and my and mygrandparents and I.
And when I, when I got to theage where I wanted to figure out
(04:54):
what I wanted to do, I didn'twant to, you know, use my mom's
name to, you know, I wanted tocreate my own way, for lack of a
better way.
So I fell into Tower GroupInternational had some great
mentors Bill Goodgen and PatWalsh and from there I went to
Expeditors.
Expeditors was I don't know ifyou know what Expeditors is.
(05:14):
It's a great company.
They moved me to El Paso, texas, where I was able to build what
I'm going to call a VMI program.
That was basically number onein the company when I was there
and that allowed me to see a lotof different insights to
different corporations, fromFortune you know, fortune 10
companies to mom and popshippers and buyers on what
(05:38):
their needs are.
And it's interesting to me isthat their needs are not
necessarily that different.
Interesting to me is that theirneeds are not necessarily that
different.
It's just really differentvocabulary and or different
expectations of good and bad interms of service.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Wow, that's nice.
And from there, can you tell usa little bit about the creation
of AirCon, ai and Captain Cargo?
What specific problems were youseeing in quoting and
consolidating process that madeyou say, well, we can automate
this.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Well, it's been kind of a journey.
So it started with the conceptof after X-Fires.
I went on and did my own thing.
I purchased the freightforwarding company called
TransTrade, ended up rebrandingthat to Tricon, which was then
bought by Visible Supply Chainand the year after that was
bought by Maersk.
Right.
(06:29):
But the idea of AirCon came upduring this particular time
because I could compete oncustoms, I could compete on
trucking, I could compete onocean, but it was very difficult
for me to compete at airfreight.
There's lots of differentreasons for that, but the main
reason is the volume andinfrastructure to consolidate.
If you understand air freight,you understand that putting
(06:51):
dense cargo with voluminouscargo reduces your chargeable
weight.
So it doesn't really matterwhat the airline is charging per
kilo if you can reduce yourchargeable weight, right.
So if you put dense withvoluminous instead of, you know
you can reduce that by 50% or so.
And so that's where the Airconthought began.
It's like how do we help smallto medium-sized freight
(07:12):
forwarders compete at scale,right?
So that's how Aircon wascreated.
We create a platform, aquote-unquote marketplace, so
freight forwarders could go in.
We're building out a network ofwholesalers and or third-party
logistic companies that we'llsupport, to give the
capabilities to our customers toeven quote.
(07:35):
A lot of people think aboutrates as being the biggest issue
, but it's really secondary ifyou don't have the capabilities
to quote it in the first place.
So, building the capabilitiesfirst, which means truckers,
which means warehouses, meansTSA, government regulation, not
to mention, obviously, airlinesthat do the middle mile right so
(07:56):
built that network and then LLMreally took off right, or was
really introduced with OpenAI,and it solved a problem that we
had.
For what we're hearing from ourcustomers, they'll say Chris,
we love your platform, we lovethe idea of getting rates within
seconds, door to airport, doorto door.
I love the idea.
(08:16):
I love the idea ofconsolidating with other freight
forwarders that they don't knowthat this is my product, but we
both win right.
So it's collaborative.
They all loved it.
But I don't want to go fill outanother website or another
platform to get rates.
(08:36):
So we use the LLM or thecreation of Captain Cargo was
really to unlock our freightforwarders onto our platform and
within the first 90 days weimproved our win percentage by
40% and we improved our revenueby 2.5x in the first 90 days and
a light bulb went off.
It's like holy smokes.
(08:57):
This is working for us.
Can you imagine if we couldsell this to the freight
forwarders so their customerscould read it?
We could plug in our network,we could plug in their network,
oh, and we can plug in maybe asecondary network.
So now the freight forwarderhas all the tools available,
(09:17):
from a capacity or capabilitystandpoint, that we can quote
24-7.
Speed to market matters morethan rate hands down.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, I think about that.
Sometimes I said, man, theyreally saw how data is valuable.
But I think after a while timeis going to surpass data because
you can't get it back.
It's going to be the truecurrency of time.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I think you nailed it on the head Time and data are
the two, and I also think it'skind of like you know, knowledge
versus wisdom, right, it's likeyou can have all the data in
the world, but if you don't havethe wisdom on how to use it,
it's just data right, that'sright.
And the timing of that.
You know what's important atthis time, like you know Timing
(10:11):
of that, what's important atthis time.
Like that scenario I talkedabout using the Milwaukee to
London there's summer schedulesout there for flights or maybe
the airport which Chicago has alot of issues in terms of, I'm
going to say, delays or waittimes and whatnot.
So, yeah, you might be quotingit over Chicago, but the trucker
is going to charge you, youknow, two or three hours wait
time, which offsets any otherbenefits that you may have,
possibly Right.
(10:32):
Um, and it's impossible for anyone person to really know what's
all out there.
Like how many trucks are in theU S?
Um, how many million differentcompanies are in the U S?
Right?
There's there's millions ofright and I think the average is
five trucks per per company.
I think is the average Um,ocean's relatively simple right,
there's 20 to 25 differentsteamship lines out there.
(10:53):
Um, there's millions oftruckers out there.
Um, there's about a thousandairlines globally.
Uh, which is also kind ofinteresting too, like how, how
can any one person really knowwhat is the best solution and
the best price in terms of allthe truckers and all the
airlines?
So that's where we come in ishow do we anchor that all
(11:16):
together?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And that's a huge optic that the little guy can
really look into and really helpthem to optimize price and
control their revenue.
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
We think so we're pretty excited about it.
We just closed our fundinground in May, so we're off to
the races and we're trying toconnect all these things into
this for lack of a better wordanchor sphere, because we're not
just a marketplace, we're notjust an AI, but the AI is really
(11:51):
what unlocks it, so you as anindividual can be productive in
meeting your customers' needs.
That's really our vision.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Yeah, so let's talk about the AI revolution in
freight.
What does it actually look likeon a day-to-day basis?
Wow, an AI agent and an AIco-pilot.
There's lots of co-pilots outthere that really automate, or,
if you think about it more of akind of a I want to call scraper
(12:29):
and OCR, right.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
So it takes a document or a spreadsheet, it
scrapes it and then inputs itinto your ERP or your TMS or
whatever system you want to callthat whatnot or whatever system
you want to call that whatnot.
It will then take that,whatever your engine is, and
produce an output, and then LLMor AI will actually respond to
that.
So I see a trucker, for example, be able to say, hey, I'm
(12:57):
available in New York at thistime tomorrow, and it will then
meet it up with the loads basedon your requirements and or or
the truckers wish list.
If you will say, hey, I gotthese.
I, I predict I'm going to havethese five loads, um to mail
tomorrow.
Which ones do you want?
Or which ones do you want tobid on?
Right, depending if you thinkof a load board or those type of
(13:18):
things.
So I see email being the the usewith the use, with the use of
LLM AI, to be able tocommunicate back and forth.
So people can work on theirphone, right, so they have to
worry about APIs, they don'thave to worry about EDI, you
know, sending a file or going toa web portal right To say, hey,
what I'm thinking like a loadboard, right when hey I'm, you
(13:41):
know, for these independents of,hey, where are we going to be?
I'm going to be in Milwaukeetomorrow.
Um, here's all my requirementsand here's the loads types that
I want and it'll it'll predict.
Okay, here's, here's what youneed to have.
Here's on this one or that one.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
That's amazing.
That's going to save a lot oftime.
It's going to save a lot oftime.
It's going to help a lot ofpeople out there that are just
grinding it to kind of put thosepieces of the puzzle together
themselves.
They can kind of do it rightthere.
So nice, Nice job.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I appreciate that.
I think the real benefit isagain when you're selling.
Obviously, as a trucker, you'reselling it to people that are
looking for those loads.
The real value in my mind isthat person that sources those
loads.
Now they have time to reallyunderstand what the requirements
are.
Right, is it time?
Is it cost?
Is it you know how much fuelthey use?
(14:32):
Right, whatever's important tothat buyer.
They can have more time to dowhat things are important to
them, not matching who needs tobe with what to meet those
requirements, okay.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
And so I'm thinking about the future.
What do you see that kind ofevolving to for a lot of
companies or drivers?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Huh, yeah, From a driver standpoint, I might want
to put a stick in that for asecond, because I don't think
for them it changes from adriver so much, with the
exception of maybe they don'thave the paperwork right, Maybe
they have a tablet or a phonethat takes pictures of PODs.
I always kind of laugh whenpeople say, hey, I need 48 hours
to give you a POD 2025, youneed 48 hours to bill me with
(15:20):
the POD.
Come on, that's just a.
That's a scam, right.
But I do see the industrychanging in terms of how they do
quote unquote brokers, right.
When you think of companiesthat are your traditional
brokers.
How do you maximize that loadfor the carrier?
(15:42):
Right, Partial loads to LTL,and I guess maybe that's where I
see most of it is the LTL sideof it.
Right Is hey, I got these 10shipments out of Chicago that
need to get to Dallas, right,Pick them up at.
You know I'm gonna say yellowbecause we know yellow is no
longer available.
Pick up from yellow's dock andmove it to roadway's dock in
(16:06):
Dallas, right, and it's anindependent carrier or asset
that moves that and the techcontrols that and consolidates
to maximize backhauls and orwhatnot.
So drivers aren't driving.
You know a thousand miles toget a load.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Gotcha.
Yeah, that'll definitely savecosts for the end user where
shipping can be more affordable.
I like that.
So, man, it just kind of easesthe fears People like to
clickbait.
They like to get people nervouswhen they hear AI because
they're thinking that it's goingto replace jobs.
But you've said it's enhancedthe human role.
(16:44):
How do you see humans and AIworking together in freight
without pushing people out?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, I think it's kind of interesting I see people
being an integral part of that.
Touch on again what isimportant to this particular
shipment, what is important tothis particular company.
What is important to thisparticular company?
Right, when people talk aboutculture.
Right, if you're, if you're inthe automotive industry, you
can't fail.
Right, if the cost of not beingon time far outweighs, you know
(17:16):
, putting a team driver on it.
Or or chartering a plane manytimes Right, chartering a plane
many times right.
So those things are more.
It's more important there.
Or medical, right?
Hey, I need to have thismedicine delivered at this time,
right.
So I think the data that wecollect and then matching the
best party with the assets,that's where the magic happens
(17:39):
with AI.
But AI is only good as what thepeople feed it, right?
So if you're thinking about,like, from an air con
perspective, is we have threeoptions, right, we have the
cheapest, we have the fastestand then the most value, right,
the most value, well, what isthat?
Right?
Like, my value and your valueis two different things in terms
(17:59):
of what we think of that right,but each customer has a
different value.
So, like I use an example allthe time of, let's say, dallas
to Joburg, south Africa, and weflew it over London, which 29%
of all freight out of the USgoes over London.
So this isn't a trade secret ofany kind.
(18:21):
But let's say it misses itsconnecting flight out of London
and the next available flight onthat airline that we picked
isn't for three days.
But we can reroute it on to,let's say, british Airways that
has lots of flights out ofLondon to Joburg, but it's going
to cost an extra 10 grand.
Well, as a freight forwarder,that's a hard conversation if I
(18:43):
need to do it at 3 am in themorning to make that next cut.
So one of our AI what does isokay.
Here's all your solutions.
Here's what it'll cost you foryour solutions.
Hey, mr Buyer in Joburg, sorryI missed your flight.
There was a flat tire or engineblew out, whatever the logic is
.
Here's your solution.
(19:03):
Which one do you, buyer, do youwant?
Do you need it there bytomorrow?
I can put it on a BA flight inthe next three hours and get it
to you, or it's rebooked on theVirgin flight, which is three
days from now, and if it's inthe automotive world, it's very
possible that it's worth the$10,000 to get there today or
(19:25):
not, right and leave it as is,and life is good, but we're
giving the information back tothe buyer or the person that
ultimately needs or is buyingthe product, right, what is
their need and expectations forthat shipment?
That also means like hey, if Idon't need it there in the next
(19:46):
three to five days, I need itthere in the next seven to 15
days.
Maybe I'm pricing out on acarrier flight UPS, dhl, fedex,
type right that we know thecargo isn't first priority, so
it may get bumped, but hey, it'sokay because I only need it
there faster than ocean, right,as a buyer.
(20:06):
So price isn't always the issue, it's what's the requirement,
and that is known by talking toyour customers, right, Knowing
what their needs are,understanding their expectations
, and AI helps you with data tobe able to have that
conversation.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That's amazing.
It gives a big picture aboutall the moving parts.
Like you said, you touch on alot of different industries.
You can see a lot of differentthings.
Because you've been around theindustry for so long, you can
see that and understand that,and now you're able to pass it
on to the guy like myself thathas maybe not be able to see all
(20:42):
those moving parts.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
He's busy podcasting, so I'm not, I'm not sure which
which swim lane is better, butuh, I do enjoy talking about it
for sure.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's really great.
Um, yeah, Also, there's somereal time decision-making that
you're talking about.
There's a huge leap forcompanies using this.
So, uh, reaching these markets.
You know how does AI giveoperators, especially smaller
ones, the edge when it comes tothis moving fast, you know, not
(21:15):
losing time and when rates areunpredictable, or you're you
know for, also for your platform, Captain Cargo or Aircon AI.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, I think that's an interesting question because
I think it's multifaceted.
When you think about AI, it'shappening.
I'm talking to the largestfreight forwarders in the world,
talking about from a pitchstandpoint.
Hey, would you guys want thisand lead this?
Um?
Three of the top five, umlargest freight forwarders in
(21:48):
the world told me, chris, you'redoing exactly what needs to be
done.
We're just doing it ourselvesbecause we're on our own
ecosystem our own, we haveenough volume, we have enough
money.
Um, we're going to build itourselves, and so everyone else.
This is where we come in.
Like, how do we help thesmaller, medium-sized freight
forwarder, even a larger one?
(22:08):
When I say larger, it's multi.
You know, $10, $15, $20 billion.
How do we leverage that?
So we maximize capacity withthe airline, because once that
airline flies, that capacity isout of the market.
So how do we do that?
And that's where AirCon comesinto play.
We are connecting these two,but not competing against the
(22:33):
two.
Right, if that makes sense,we're trying to leverage the
freight forwarder as the mainperson or main identity that has
really the control with thebuyer or shipper.
Right, not the airline.
Right, so, not the airline and,to be fair, not the trucker.
Right, because we want tomaximize the capacity, we want
to maximize the rate, we wantthe trucker to make money, we
(22:54):
want the airline to make moneyand we want the freight
forwarder to make money.
But we don't just want to take,we're trying to leverage and
make, hey, what's the bestpossible solution?
And the scenario that I talk alot about is Aircon.
Aircon has our IATA.
We have the ability to bookcargo.
In fact, we book a ton of cargoWell, more than a ton.
We do about 200 to 300 tons amonth currently that we're
(23:17):
booking on airlines today andwe're considered sometimes a
co-loader or a consolidator or awholesaler whatever that term
you want to use there.
Well, there's competitors outthere, right?
There's AMI, there's AWA,there's UAC, there's Shipco,
aircon.
Really, what we're trying to dois leverage those two together,
(23:39):
all of them together.
And hey, who has the best rateas a buyer from Dallas to Sydney
?
Well, that may be Aircon, thatmay be AMI, that may be Shipco,
that may be AWA, don't care,because we want to leverage and
make sure the freight forwarderis making as much money and
exceeding their customers'expectations, right?
So it's a fundamental shift interms of how people think in the
(24:01):
industry versus they're acompetitor, they're a wholesaler
, they're the first mile,they're the trucker.
Right, how do we bring that alltogether?
And that's AeroCon Nice.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
What's one of your biggest missions?
To bridge and gap the gap forsmaller players, for independent
forwarders.
How exactly does your tech helpthem complete the global?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
A couple of different ways.
One is is you don't have to bein a.
You know we can partner andagain, we can move it on our
IATA If the moving the movingother cargo air con has the
ability to do that eitherthrough air con, through a
network, wholesale.
So we're unlocking that for thesmall to medium-sized freight
forwarder who has a relationshipwith the buyer.
So we strongly believe thatpeople do business with people
(24:52):
and as long as everything isrelatively the same in terms of
price, people will always choosesomeone they trust, someone
that knows has their back whenthey you know they have a
problem.
My freight's stuck in London.
I need it here, you know, insix hours because my line's down
situation.
Someone that shows empathy interms of I got it, here's all
(25:15):
your solutions.
Oh, by the way, it's going tocost you $10,000 more to have
that honest conversation is sopowerful in this space.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Yeah, yeah, because it affects their company, their
brand, the customers that theydeal with.
I mean it's a huge web thatthey're involved in and so that
conversation is going to be feltnot just between the two.
I mean that's a lot of trust,like you said, it's huge in in
the industry, in the truckingindustry, when you know I feel
(25:47):
that as a driver, you know whenI have responsibility, uh, when
I'm out there on the road andaround all these other drivers,
that's my, my duty to to be aguardian of the road, not to
take it lightly.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
So I told you what you're saying absolutely, and
and and I think a lot of thesetexts with.
Again, what kind of separatesaircon from everybody else and
or most most other brady else,is the fact that we are, we live
it, right.
So I'm a freight forward atheart.
I move, you know, lots of airfreight.
Earl wakefield, one of ourco-founders, lived it right.
(26:19):
He was a gateway manager, uh,for many years.
Out of dallas.
Our cto, dennis um has beenwriting ml, or predictive
analytics, for 15 years, right,um, he could predict the next uh
pitch an mlb baseball game in a95 accuracy and this is before
the whole, you know, beating onthe drum standpoint, right, um.
(26:41):
So we live it, we know it, andI'll give you examples.
You know there's airports thatyou know are trying to do this
appointment setter setting thingat the at the ground handlers,
right, well, what they don'tthink of is that these freight
forwarders, for a lot of times,will use two or three drivers or
trucking companies, and so thatone trucking company might have
(27:03):
five or six freight forwardersthat they need to pick up at
American Airlines today.
But the system was designed forone forwarder, one shipment,
one driver, right, but thereality is it's one driver, 10
or 15 different pickups tomaximize that driver's time and
that company's assets, if youwill right, because you don't
(27:26):
want to go to the same place 10times in a day.
You want to go to AmericanAirlines once.
I want to go to BA once.
I want to go to China Airlinesonce.
Right, and so, as someone thatcame from the freight forwarder,
we understand the challengesthat freight forwarders run into
and that's the problem we'resolving trying to solve that
freight forwarders run into, andthat's the problem we're
(27:46):
solving, trying to solve man.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
so you've introduced the concept of gateway as a
service.
That's something new.
Can you explain what that meansas how it might apply to beyond
air freight or into groundlogistics and regional trucking
networks?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah.
So I kind of split into twodifferent things import-export.
So on the export side, gatewayas an air freight is considered
a.
It's a warehouse where weconsolidate or build ULDs.
Right, we got to screen thecargo, we maximize the what we
call the pallet, which you knowtakes basically six standardized
40 by 48 pallets, and we buildit up, we wrap it.
(28:25):
You may see these when you'rein the airline.
They usually have nets on them,those things.
So that's what a gateway does.
But the real benefit is that,again, you're maximizing the
consolidation but you're alsodoing that negotiation with the
vendor or the asset personversus the customer, the buyer,
(28:48):
right.
So the freight forwarder, we,we believe that there's there's
two distinct skill sets.
One is to make sure yourcustomers are happy and one is
making sure your vendors are areare happy, honest and meeting
the expectations you need tomake your customer happy.
And those are two differentskill sets, vocabularies,
(29:08):
mindsets, and so we are takingreally that back office logic of
hey, how do we manage andleverage airlines, whatnot?
So the freight forwarder canmake more money or retain its
customers by meeting theirexpectations but, more
importantly, by being able todeliver on what they say they
(29:32):
can deliver.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Wow, let's take a second.
You know data and using it andtrusting AI, especially with
your platform.
How do you help people see thatyou know that time sensitive or
touching the information with.
They're kind of maybe wearyabout AI systems making
decisions.
How do you help them feel atease with that?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
So we have.
So we're just starting with,we're starting with a quoting
agent on the air export and airimport side of things.
So what we've done to help easeis hey, we don't have to
respond to your customer rightaway, right, your customer
doesn't know it's us, theybelieve it's you right, we're
responding as you right.
But to ease your pain or easeyour fear is, we'll set it up
(30:18):
the first 30, 60 days or howeverlong you want to do.
It is we'll just respond toyour ops team or your quote team
right until you feelcomfortable with our responses.
To then go to your customers,we have an admin board that
tells you your win percentages,um, it tells you your, your
lanes.
You're winning at lanes, you'renot at.
Um.
We will, in time, be able togive you market uh analytics.
(30:40):
Um, if you think of the CNSIATA data that you get, it's
really airport to airport.
It doesn't really say door toairport type information Like,
if you look at some of thosedata, it shows Anchorage, alaska
, is the largest airport in theUS for freight and obviously
it's not Obviously it's a placewhere people or airlines land
(31:04):
and or take off for refuelingpurposes right from a
trans-Pacific standpoint.
But we would like to give thatdata on Joburg, wherever they
you know they're looking to move, their manufacturing or their
(31:28):
source for their cargo is, wewill be able to give you the AI
will be able to give you, hey,here's kind of predictive
analytics on capacity rate,on-time performance out of those
regions.
Because, again, it's not like atrucker right where I can say,
hey, your route was Chicago toDallas.
(31:48):
I know you have some, some,some regulatorial things where
you gotta can't rest today oryou need to rest today, so why
don't you pick it up tomorrow?
The airlines are gone, right,it's, you know, they're
scheduled at four o'clock,they're leaving at four
o'clockclock.
That capacity is out of themarket.
Um, I can't ask a driver towait 30 minutes.
I can't ask, you know, theairline to wait for me, and that
(32:12):
create creates, uh, what I callleakage or unnecessary cost,
right, um, where we can maximizethat again.
So maybe it's vendor a orcustomer a or customer b that,
hey, I don't need it on thisnext flight, but if, if you have
space, put it on, great right.
So it's a win for the win forthe airline, it's a win for the
(32:33):
freight forwarder, it's a winfor um, everybody involved,
because we maximize thatcapacity, right, we?
We as much as we possibly could, and that's where it goes,
where we're not competingagainst each other, right.
So it's not American Airlinesagainst British Airlines or
Swift versus Knight which, yes,I know they're the same, but
(32:54):
it's not UPS versus FedEx, it'snot DHL.
It's what's best for the buyer,and I think that's
fundamentally different whatwe're doing, what everybody else
is doing, where they'recreating tools for things that
you already have or what you own.
So, if you look at ourquote-unquote competitors out
there, it's built for theirnetwork, like who is their agent
(33:19):
in London?
Who is their agent in Dallas?
Who is their trucker in Dallas?
Who is their trucker in Dallas?
Who is their trucker in Chicago?
What we're trying to do, or whatwe're building, is hey, great,
you have, you know, you haveYellow in Chicago.
You know Yellow's charging,their on-time performance is
only 72%, where FedEx or UPS is98% on-time, but they charge you
(33:45):
a little bit more.
So here's more data, here'smore information.
Mr Freight Forwarder or MrsFreight Forwarder, what do you
want to do to best beat yourcustomer?
And that's how AI is used Froma data standpoint.
It's used to allow you to makebetter decisions to either
maximize your on-timeperformance, your KPIs for your,
(34:06):
for your customer, or maximizeyour profits.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
I don't know why, but I keep, when you're you're
talking, I think, about golf.
You know meeting at tee timeand you know you gotta some.
Some golfers are right-handed,you know they're different
height.
You know, if you buy just astandard golf clubs, you know
your, your pitch and your angle,um, trying to get that ball in
the air, uh, just the right way.
I mean, man, that's, uh, it's alot of things to think about, a
(34:33):
lot of decisions to put in play, and people have been doing it
for years.
And you go out there and you'reyou're trying to hit your, your
ball and there's a team behindyou waiting and they're trying
to get get going.
I mean, man, yeah, that's a lotof moving parts, um, that a lot
of people don't see when they,when you pass a golf course, you
don't see all those movingparts yes, I think that's a
great way to say it.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Like to give you an idea, there's 14 different
companies and or departments orpeople that touch every air
freight shipment, from the quoteto delivery.
14 different organizations,slash companies, slash people,
touch that or have something todo with those shipments.
So you think about thefragmentation that happens from
(35:15):
again, the $5 to $10 milliontrucks that are around the US to
the government regulatorialthings that you have to comply
with, to the airlines.
What is their schedule?
It's complex and they all aretrying to keep everything by
themselves.
So that's why we're trying tocreate this anchor sphere that
brings it all together.
(35:36):
And I love the golf analogy.
That is fantastic.
I love that.
That's probably why I drink somuch beer when I golf is that I
can't hit the damn ball.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Hey, that's another cool part about golfing too.
It's multi-class, that's right.
Yeah, so that's amazing, youknow, and so you get to see a
lot of different things, and Ireally hope that it's a
successful launch and gettingthis out to everybody and so
they can use it as much aspossible.
So I appreciate you coming totalk on this.
You know, one thing also is,when you think about the market
(36:08):
and how volatile it's beenlately, you know real fluid.
How does your platform adapt?
Can AI really keep up with theshifting freight rates capacity
that you have to do, you have tocrunch it.
You know it's some loads thathave to go.
What about that chaos have youseen?
You know, post-2020?
.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, what's kind of interesting is, I think the
chaos is just part of the game,right, particularly from a rate
perspective.
There hasn't been anything thathas surprised me in terms of
rates.
That has surprised me in termsof rates and I think of trucking
right, when the pandemic hit,you know people, maybe I'll say
(36:52):
it a different way we don't havea rate issue.
We either have a capacity issueor a paying issue, right?
Is there's enough resources outthere to drive trucks around
the US if we want to pay for it?
Right?
The pandemic is a perfectexample of that is how many
companies were started duringthe pandemic when the rates were
(37:13):
just off the charts, right?
I mean, I don't even know whatthe average rate per mile was,
but it was expensive, right.
Probably 3 to 4x what it istoday, maybe even 5x, right, in
a lot of cases.
And that's really how do we?
Where the AI comes in is how dowe predict some of these things
in real?
And when I say predict the nextthree days, the next seven days
(37:35):
, and that comes just more dataand sharing of that data, right,
and then what changes that?
Right, what kind of disruptionIs it?
A disruption in the ocean?
The disruption in the economy.
Is it a disruption in theeconomy?
Is it the?
Is it the economy in terms ofthe dollar valuation?
So is it for us?
Obviously, I think a lot of theexport international piece of it
, import, export side of it.
(37:55):
So I think about okay, well,where are they buying it from?
Um, but the trucking side of itis is is always kind of
interesting to me, because if wewant to pay for it, because we
want on-time delivery or whatnot, we can get people to do it
right.
But it's when we don't want topay for it and then we switch as
(38:15):
a consumer base hey, we want itcheaper.
Well, now it becomes more aboutthe rate per mile or rate per
unit and whatnot, and the JITportion.
I'm sorry if I'm rambling here,but I think all these things
tie into the rates right, as wehave concepts of we just want
(38:36):
inventory JIT, right, whichmeans we've got to have more
reliability in our supply chain,which means we're okay paying a
little bit more for theseroutes because we want to make
sure the driver's taken care ofevery single time home, when
their home time's important tothem and excuse me my ignorance,
but whatever else is importantto that driver's life is how do
(39:01):
we get the best fit, the bestdriver with the best route right
?
Because, again, these five orsix things are important to me.
I only want to work three orfour days out of the week.
I want to be home three or fourdays out of the week.
Okay, so that's this route.
Well, maybe one customerdoesn't have all that freight to
keep that driver occupied andor efficient enough, so the
(39:25):
company can make money, drivercan make money and, more
importantly, the buyer ismeeting or exceeding that
expectation, so we can continuethat route right.
And that's where I think AIreally comes into play is okay,
how do we have A to B, a to B,and then how do we have C to D?
That may be three or fourdifferent buyers, but how do we
(39:50):
connect that through tech right,so it's a win-win for everybody
involved.
That's really the when I thinkof AirCon, that's really what I
think about is is how does a winfor everybody that's involved,
how does it benefit or add value, win for everybody that's
involved, how does it benefit oradd value to whatever they're
doing?
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Wow, yeah, I can see that.
No, thank you, that's amazing.
I think, uh, I think that's soimportant.
I mean, on time delivery wasthe main thing back in the days,
but it's not as much anymore.
Like you said, it's up to thatindividual that it's important
to and what their needs are andwhat their desires and what
they're trying to accomplish,and so we can hone in on that
(40:30):
with AI, you know.
So that's amazing.
Great job, guys.
Keeping up man On the flip side.
You know what's one myth youknow flip it for about AI or in
logistics that drives you crazythat some people totally
misunderstand.
Maybe we can clear some of thatup right now.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
That 99% of the people that say their AI is not.
It just pisses me off.
Like, oh, I'm an AI.
It's like dude, you're scraping.
All you're doing is scrapingdata and putting it in.
Yeah, you're automating.
But that's not real In my mindand I'm sure in some world it is
.
But there's so many companiesout there saying they're doing
(41:08):
this or they're doing that, andthen we go look into them.
It's like, really Like, okay,you're a tool, like I mean that
no, I shouldn't say that thatsounded bad.
You're a tool.
You're trying to solve aproblem with a tool.
You're not.
Yeah, so you get.
Why.
I didn't want to say it thatway, but it's, it's really a
tool, and a lot of them is.
(41:30):
Is what I say is a?
It's kind of like the, thestructure, abc, abc type
structure in terms of hey, Ihave a shipment, what do I do?
Right, so it's very textbook,right, okay, go get a quote.
Hey, some MBA person said goget three quotes because that's
the best way to get your, yourrates down, which there's some
(41:51):
truth to that, but more myththan truth.
Best way to get your rate down.
Okay, then you put it into thissystem, then you do this.
Oh, then you got to create acommercial.
Whatever the process is, it'svery good at automating it once
you have the shipment, butnobody does the art of the deal,
if you will, or art of gettingthe business or winning the
(42:13):
business, and nobody is reallydoing the exception part of it,
right, there's some visibilitytools out there that says, hey,
your container's stuck in LA,who cares?
Right, just because I knowwhere it's at, it doesn't give
me any value.
My value is okay, it's stuck inLondon.
Okay, now what?
(42:34):
Right?
What are my options?
Because something went wrongand something always goes wrong
in logistics, especially whenit's hot, especially when you
know I need it here and you knowmy line's down situation.
Stuff always happens, right,because, again, there's 14
different people involved in anair freight shipment, right, so
a lot of things have to go right, and so when one of those
(42:56):
things go wrong, it's a rippleeffect of downstream issues,
right, and that's where wereally want to live.
Right, obviously, we're dealingthe booking side of it, right
Booking with the trucker,booking with the airline,
booking you know, notifying ASNsand all that kind of good stuff
.
But the real magic is on thefront and the back end of those
(43:17):
of the transaction.
How do I win it?
What are my options?
What are my routes?
Hey, buyer, what's important toyou?
And then the third agent thatwe have, which is our exception
agent, is okay, I got visibilityand here's your options to help
fix your problem.
If it is a problem, it may notbe a problem, but if it is a
(43:39):
problem, how do you fix it?
Right, and that's where I thinkmost people or most companies
that say, hey, we have an AI forlogistics or AI for
transportation or whatever termwe want in there, they just
don't get it.
They're doing a piece of it.
They're not getting that thing.
That really kind of pisses meoff, because when we're selling
our services to customers, oh, Ineed to get two or three other
(44:01):
customers out there.
Okay, go ahead, there isn't anyright?
And I've looked at all of them,right?
So, in fact, I want to use, Iuse half of them that you're
talking to, right?
So, because our one agent has25 agents underneath it that are
supporting the courting agent,right?
So that's my biggest.
I don't know the thing thatirritates me the most.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, I hope that that gets clarified.
You know, you think about, youknow the misconceptions that are
out there.
A lot of times it's socialmedia or something else that's
putting it out there just sothat people can click on it, but
that's real time talk rightthere.
I mean that's putting peopleright in the action so that
people can click on it, butthat's real-time talk right
there.
I mean that's putting peopleright in the action so that they
can see that there's a lot morethat goes on behind the scenes
than just when you say I do AIor I have AI, so it makes sense.
(44:47):
I totally get it.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
The challenge with that is all the marketing side
of it and all the you know thinkof.
Like LinkedIn or other socialmedia.
You know how your posts getpromoted is an original thought,
right?
So if you're trying to dosomething that's original, it
doesn't get caught and you knowit doesn't do the you know go
viral if you will which is achallenge in that messaging
standpoint, but I like your golfone.
(45:11):
I'm going to give that to mymarketing team and say hey, what
if we're like?
Think of it like a golf, acountry club or a golf, whatever
right, and see how they run.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Wow, I like that.
Yeah, so you know thinkingabout things, we like to keep it
actionable.
What's one simple first stepthat someone can take?
If they're listening to thispodcast and you know they're
thinking about things, they'retrying to brainstorm something
that they could do this weekthat could start keeping their
freight operation modernizing,even if they're not tech people.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Yeah, they go to airconaicom and, of course, we
can do a demo, we can show it,we can have you up and running
relatively quick on the air sideof it.
Soon will be airconai.
We are consolidating ourcaptain cargo and an aircon into
a anchor sphere, if you will.
Um, because part of that, partof part of our marketing is
(46:07):
really to identify or to explainwhat we're actually building,
because it's not just just, likeI said earlier, like everybody
else, um, so, yeah, or you canreach me at sales at airconaicom
.
Would love to chat with you.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Yeah, I mean I feel your pain on that one, because
getting an idea into someone'smind is probably it can be
difficult, sometimes it's easy.
But from a new idea standpoint,it has to give birth into the
mind and has to actually growand otherwise something else can
take it away.
(46:44):
People's attention goeselsewhere.
I mean that's it can be achallenge nowadays because
there's so much informationflooding people, but yet those
ideas are important for us togrow and to learn.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
And identify what's what.
Like, we've interviewed someone.
Uh, you know we're hired.
We hire engineers, obviously,and, um, I had, uh, one of the
engineers who could clearly say,or or see that they were
interviewing and listen to AIand they were telling, you know,
the AI was telling them whatthe uh to say until you got to
technical stuff to say, untilyou got to technical stuff, and
(47:16):
I was like, oh, I don't know howto do this stuff.
There's a lot of weird stuffout there.
Um, people are trying to takeadvantage of it.
A lot of competing priorities,to your point.
Um, but we're here to help.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Wow, the real deal.
I mean I love that you guysreached out, be on the show and
I hope the more people can alsounderstand that, hey, there's a
lot more to logistics out there.
You just got to be able towilling to give it a try, like
you said, just reach out to youguys and get you set up to be a
game player.
You know, and they got greatguys like yourself out there
(47:47):
that are working hard at it.
Man, you're like I said, youknow you're a great individual
doing great things out there.
You know Minnesota andWisconsin, britain and America
yeah, and Wisconsin, americayeah.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Go, Pat go.
But I do love Aaron Jones.
So just for the record, he's anEl Paso kid right.
So a lot of love for Aaron, andso I root for Minnesota too.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
Nice, nice.
Yeah, we, we need some loveover here.
Man, minnesota just loves toget you worked up.
And then, all of a sudden, whathappened?
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Right, what happened.
Very true, man.
I appreciate you very much and,yeah, I'm looking forward to
the NFL season starting here ina couple months, right so?
And trying to hang out with thefamily, which I really enjoy.
Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah, time goes by so fast.
Oh it, it's crazy, especiallywhen you're working so hard.
Uh, keep everything moving.
I mean I can't imagine everyweek, the week, what it's like
for yourself there.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
I mean, what is it like to be you?
Speaker 1 (48:47):
sometimes you know what do you all right it's uh,
the brain doesn't shut off.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
That's kind of the uh front of the challenges.
You're always thinking aboutokay, well, what if?
And and part of the challengeis you're always thinking about,
okay, well, what if?
And part of being a startup isto be able to hone that in and
to okay, here is what trackwe're on, and we're going to
stay on this track until ourcustomers tell us, hey, we're on
the wrong track.
We're going to continue downthis path.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Yeah, just real quick .
What's the code of conduct?
You got behind you, I like thatBuffalo culture.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
So I don't know if you know much about buffalo
culture, but yeah, I'd love to.
You can click on that or youcan Google that.
But really it's aboutprotecting the herd.
It's about hey, we're okay withconflict as long as it's what's
best for the company.
We protect each other, we pullthe luck and it's really
(49:44):
everything about buffalo justhow they, which I think is a
beautiful creature how they justlive.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
that's really what we want to live here at AirCon.
Hey, I like that.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Yeah, I have to check it out,man, I have to be honest.
Yeah, that was new for me.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
So, yeah, I'll check it out.
We always find a way we headtowards a storm, right, or some
of the, the, the sound bites, ifyou will, that I really enjoy,
right.
It's like, hey, we got aproblem, we're trying to solve a
problem that's massive, we'reheading into the storm together,
right, um and uh, we're it withall about what's best for us,
what's not necessarily best forthe individual great job.
Speaker 1 (50:14):
well, chris, I really appreciate you being on the
show.
Um, we'll break it down foreveryone here.
You know, everyone knows how toreach out to you guys.
So if there's a way that you'reapplying AI that doesn't work
or, like you said, isn't justsmart, it's about learning to be
empowering AI.
It's actually giving optionsthat work.
(50:35):
So you're giving small andmid-sized and even large
companies the tools that theymay need to fight above their
weight class, so that'ssomething that we all can
respect.
So thank you for doing that andfor anyone that's listening out
there, please check out AirconAI, captain Cargo, and
(50:56):
especially if you want to takethe guesswork out of the grunt
work and the delays out of yourquoting and consolidation game.
So a lot of great informationhere, and there's more yet if
you peer into it.
So thank you so much for beingon the show.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
I appreciate it.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
All right, thank you.
So this is the future offreight, and it's more
accessible than you think.
Until next time.
This is that's Delivered.
Stay sharp, stay safe and keepdriving the industry forward.
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