Ep 27: Jesse Grupper - Competing at the Olympics Injured - That's Not Real Climbing

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I think the Olympic blues, which is what I've been calling them, definitely hit pretty hard.

(00:05):
And I feel like I really put everything I had into that one experience.
And having it not go the way I wanted it to, both because of injury and maybe some expectations,
made it just hurt that much more.
I kind of waffled a lot in the rope round.
I came up with a couple of different solutions and just didn't really fully commit to the

(00:28):
move at hand.
I mean, always going to look back on riding a boat with LeBron, I guess.
It's time that climbing is treated like a real sport and this is the trajectory of it.
So let's embrace it.
Welcome to another episode of the That's Not Real Climbing podcast.
I'm your host Jinni and I'm excited to introduce my guest for today, Jesse Grupper.

(00:52):
Jesse used to be a lead specialist, but he recently came back from Paris where he was
representing Team USA in the Olympics boulder and lead combined format.
In this episode, he walks us through his entire Olympics experience from training through
his first ever finger injury to balancing training with his engineering job to meeting
other athletes at the Olympic Village.

(01:14):
We'll also learn about some of his future climbing goals and volunteer work.
I hope you enjoy this episode with Jesse.
Okay, so you are back in Salt Lake, right?
Yeah, I am pretty excited about it.

(01:37):
I feel like I've been on the roads, honestly, since the Olympics, just doing a lot of smaller
trips either to family or outdoors.
And yeah, I'm excited to be sleeping in a bed for more than like five days at a time.
So yeah, should be a good time.
Is Salt Lake like your actual base now?

(01:57):
Pretty much.
Yeah, I'm fairly nomadic, I would say, like for a lot of the year.
But as far as like what I consider home to be right now, I would call it Salt Lake.
Very nice.
So you like actually have like a room and a bed and like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I feel fortunate to be staying with Karakandi as well.

(02:18):
He's a good friend of mine.
And yeah, so it's been a really nice house vibe in Salt Lake.
And yeah, I've been enjoying the scenes.
And I honestly, this past year, I've not really climbed outside or explored the area because
I've mostly been stuck in a gym training.
So I'm really excited to be getting outside this season and getting to actually explore

(02:42):
Salt Lake for what it has besides the gyms.
Yeah, it's fun that you are staying with Kyra, I think.
Just a bunch of climbers together.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I mean, there are a lot of climbers now in Salt Lake.
Like I feel like every year I'm like, wow, this person that I knew in like youth series
is like here too.
And I feel like a lot of people are like moving out here and it's becoming a really big scene,

(03:05):
which you know, I like in some ways, don't like in other ways.
But we can get into that later for sure.
Yeah, seems like the place to be.
How was your break after the Olympics?
Did you do anything memorable?
Yeah, so right after I was fortunate to have a day or two in Paris with like my family.
And then I went to Magicwood with my sister and partner.

(03:26):
And yeah, it was it was a ton of fun to be out there.
I think at the same time, like, it was definitely a different experience than I was expecting.
I think like the Olympic blues, which is what I've been calling them definitely hit pretty
hard.
I think I've just had this one goal for so long, you know, both in life and then also

(03:49):
once I qualified, it was about like nine months away.
And I feel like I really put everything I had into that one experience and having it
not go the way I wanted to, both because of like injury and maybe some expectations made
it just hurt that much more.
So I think coming into Magicwood, even though it was supposed to be like, oh, this is going

(04:09):
to be a fun trip in the forest, I think I definitely still had a lot of that weight
to sort of unpack off my shoulders.
So it wasn't all fun and games, but it was a beautiful place.
And yeah, I wouldn't have traded it for any other experience.
Yeah.
And it will definitely get into the Olympics a little bit later.
How long of a break did you end up taking before you started like climbing indoors again

(04:33):
or like doing training?
So I guess I took about seven days, like a week in Magicwood.
And then I went to kind of like an island and did like kind of like a beach vacation,
which I haven't done in almost my entire life.
It was the first time.
Yeah, like I guess I always like want to have like climbing nearby or if I like go on vacation,

(04:58):
like I'm usually like hiking and being like pretty active.
So it was definitely a different experience, but I definitely enjoyed it and it was a lot
of fun.
So we got like some outdoor time too.
But wait, like even as a kid, you never just like went to the beach just to go to the beach.
We would have like day trips to the beach, but I feel like like a week, week long trip,
like no, not really.

(05:19):
No, I guess I haven't either.
I mean, a week is a pretty long time to spend just at a beach, just beach.
Yeah.
Well, I guess we also like hiked and yeah, I did some other stuff, but it was mainly
there for like water time for sure.
Which is good to do something different.
Maybe take like, maybe take a trip to like a resort or something like that.

(05:39):
Have you ever done that?
No, no.
Yeah, that always has intimidated me.
Intimidated you?
Yeah, I guess like I'm just scared that I'm not going to be able to leave and I'm going
to be like stuck in this resort that I don't like, you know, like I feel like I like having
a little bit of a independence and a vacation.
Okay.
Yeah, I have never done like a resort either, but it doesn't intimidate me.

(06:00):
I just, I really wish I could.
I just haven't been able to.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean that too.
Like, I don't know.
I feel like I don't want to, I'd rather save the money to like spend it on a climbing
trip or something similar.
Yeah, fair.
I really desire like the pampering, but then when I think about it, I'm like, maybe I
do want to have some more fun on this trip.

(06:20):
I don't know yet.
Yeah, yeah.
What I did actually like two days after the games, I was like climbing back in a gym.
I feel like climbing for me is definitely healing in a lot of ways.
So I feel like it's like an important part of processing feelings and understanding myself.
So I feel like it was important for me to like get back in there even if it wasn't

(06:40):
the most fun or rewarding session.
Was that in Paris?
It was, yeah.
Heard great things about the gyms there.
Yeah, it's crazy for sure.
They definitely have like some wild setting.
You're not now not allowed to use like loose chalk though.
So you're supposed to only use like, yeah, like liquid chalk, which is definitely an
interesting change.

(07:01):
And I feel like that's an adjustment.
But apart from that, like it's awesome.
Awesome.
Well, let's get right into, I guess, learning about your climbing journey.
For those who don't know, how did you get into climbing and then eventually competing?
So I started climbing when I was pretty young.
I was dragged to the gym with my sister and mom.

(07:21):
My sister was taking classes at our local gym, New Jersey Rock Gym, and I couldn't
just like sit on a couch.
I had like so much energy.
I was like running around the gym and my mom, as a way of coping with that, put me into
climbing lesson classes.
And yeah, even in climbing classes, you know, I don't know how familiar people are with

(07:44):
that kind of setup.
But a lot of the time, four of you are like sitting down and one person is like climbing.
And I just like couldn't sit still.
I felt like I was either bored or had to like run around.
So I was constantly getting in trouble.
And I think that the key for me was having someone who like was able to put that energy

(08:05):
of like restlessness and wanting to just like constantly move into pushing me and climbing.
So like recognizing that and being able to use it towards something positive, like progressing
in the sport, really helped me find my focus as a young, oblivious, crazy kid.
And yeah, I haven't looked back since then.

(08:26):
And maybe I still have some of those characteristics as well.
Nice.
And then after like how long after do you start entering in competitions?
Yeah, so I started competing when I was about nine years old.
And I don't know, I didn't know what the heck I was doing.
Like I was just like, oh, like, cool.
Like I get to do more new climbs.
And I think that the friends that I met along the way really inspired me and got me excited

(08:50):
to keep pushing myself.
And then I think there was definitely an age, maybe like around like 12 or 13, where I was
like, oh, this means something to me.
This is really important.
And I think losing some of that obliviousness made me rethink and have a lot more pressure
on myself.
And I had to re-figure out what I wanted out of climbing around that age.

(09:12):
Wow, trying to figure out what you want out of climbing at 12 years old sounds kind of
wild.
Does your sister still climb?
She does.
Yeah, she's actually in Australia now.
So she's not doing as many competitions, but still climbs outside.
And yeah, like for instance, we went on a trip to Magicwood.
So I think it's a really special bond that we have that we're able to push each other

(09:36):
and be able to do what we love together.
Yeah, that's super nice.
Yeah, so you mentioned that at 12, you felt the pressure to, I guess, decide your life
path.
What was the outcome of that?
Did you decide then and there that this is what you were going to do?

(09:57):
Yeah, so my coach had left our team and I really respected and admired her philosophy
and process towards climbing.
So I ended up deciding that I would fully train alone.
And of course, I had friends at the gym who I climbed with, but my coach sent me workouts

(10:18):
starting around 12 years old.
And that's kind of how I feel like I learned to be dedicated and focused in climbing.
She would send me workouts, I would do them, I would tell her how they went.
And that was kind of the process that I built up over time with her.

(10:38):
And I think gaining that kind of independence of understanding that the work that I'm putting
in, it's up to me to get these workouts and find this fitness on the wall, meant that
I really saw that process of hard work leads to better results.
And I think that as a result, I think that I've carried that with me for a really long

(11:00):
time.
I'm not recommending that people stop training at their gym facilities or their youth teams
just because it worked out for me.
But I do think that I found someone who I really enjoyed training with and I would maybe
see her once a month or so or at competitions.

(11:20):
And it just worked really well for me and it helped me find a good balance of pushing
myself in the sport while also finding my love and joy in it as well.
And so then I guess getting into your IFSC competition history, when was your first comp
there?
Did you do the youth circuit?

(11:41):
Yeah, so I did do the youth circuit.
In 2012 was my first youth world championship and it went pretty bad, I would say.
But I think that really opened up my eyes to the level that was out there.
And I think that for me, it's really hard to push yourself when you don't have a good
image of what others are capable of.

(12:04):
So I think coming back from that competition, I was incredibly motivated and I really wanted
one more shot at that level of competition.
I didn't really think that I'd make it as a climber or anything like that, but I just
really loved the process of getting to see this futuristic level and then getting to

(12:24):
work on building myself up to try to compete at that level.
And I think, of course, competition, you are doing some comparison, but really it was about
how far I could go and how far I could push myself that I tried to focus on more than
anything.
You also took a break in 2019.

(12:45):
Was that for work?
Yeah.
So I guess maybe to back up a little bit, I had done my first season of IFC World Cups
in 2019 and I think that I really loved it.
I also think that I had spent four years studying mechanical engineering and I think that I

(13:06):
was curious about that passion being pushed forward, what that would look like.
So I think that I had had this experience in climbing where I was like, I love this,
I think it's really cool, but I also want to understand what the engineering world could
look like.
So I took a, I guess I would call it a break, but really it was pushing my curiosity with

(13:27):
an engineering.
So I think I was still climbing throughout that time, still pushing myself in various
ways getting outside.
But I think for me, getting to see what engineering could provide for others and how it would
make me feel was really important to me.
And so I took about two, two and a half years to work in a mechanical engineering lab and

(13:50):
I'm actually still working in that same lab part time today, but it meant that I could
really see that path through, see what it looked like.
And then two years later down the line, I was like, well, World Cups were pretty sick
and climbing outside is really cool and I wonder if I can, maybe I can give one last
chance to this dream that I've had since I was little and not fully let that up while

(14:16):
I could still choose what I could do and didn't just age with climbing naturally.
Well glad you made that decision.
Yeah, so like quick detour to just talk about your work a little bit.
I think this was something people were really interested in in terms of how you balance
employment and training and climbing and competing.

(14:39):
So I guess in that time after 2019, were you like working full time and still training
or did you just like completely give up your climbing goals at that time?
Yeah, I never gave up climbing.
I think that I just became really regimented and efficient with the timing.

(15:00):
That was something that I feel like throughout college and before in high school, like I
always was sort of like on a schedule and I found that I became more efficient in the
gym when I had less time because I had school or you know, various like clubs and activities
to do.
I like my work life balance was a little crazy for sure.

(15:21):
Like I would work 9 to 5.36 whatever and then go straight to a gym for maybe three, three
and a half hours and then go home, have dinner, go to bed and then sort of repeat.
And I think that I loved it, like I think I felt like I was really living like a fulfilled
life.

(15:41):
I think that it definitely didn't mean that I could be at the top of my game in climbing.
But as I pictured what just climbing would look like, I think that I missed some of that.
Well one, like I think I'm really passionate about the work that I was doing.
I think that it's meaningful to me to work for something beyond just myself, which I

(16:02):
feel like a lot of the time is what I sort of view my climbing as.
But in addition, I think that you know, I can't climb every day or else my fingers would
fall off and all my skin would be gone.
So I think that having rest days and this is especially true honestly when I'm in competition
mode, I have to have more rest and rather than just sit and think about climbing, sitting

(16:26):
and thinking about like engineering challenges or ways that I could help other people is
important to me and helps me feel like if I'm not doing my best in climbing, at least
there's something else that I provide to the world.
So nowadays you said you're working part time and I guess like remote?

(16:47):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, for the same lab.
So then how does your training fit into that now?
Are you still, do you like train every day?
What's your schedule look like there?
Yeah, so training is a little different now, which I guess we can get into in a little
bit because I still have a hurt finger.
So I'm trying not to put the pedal to the metal, but basically like on rest days will

(17:10):
be like work days.
So I'll have more of a focus on catching up on engineering work.
It's a little bit more loose about the schedule that I have.
Having like weekly meetings is a part of it.
Basically, I'll go like two days on one day off, kind of repeating indefinitely and on

(17:31):
the rest days will be like the main work days and maybe I'll answer like emails or do some
small jobs after a climbing session as well.
Okay, good to hear how you balance it.
I do want to, it's been a while since I've interviewed like a lead specialist.
I just wanted to get some new competition climbing lead questions out there if that

(17:53):
works for you.
Yeah, for sure.
Let's do it.
Yeah, so as I guess sort of a lead specialist, how often do you get stressed that you only
get like one shot in lead?
Or do you like train to make no mistakes somehow?
Whoa, that's a really good question.
I think for me, I don't really think about, I think it's okay to make mistakes and it's

(18:18):
okay to like not be at your best.
And I think that that's the only way that you will be at your best if that makes sense.
I think that like from the outside, it definitely looks like, wow, you have like one chance
that's like so intimidating.
And I think it can be and I think that's gotten under my skin plenty of times.
But I think the more time that I focus on just the climbing and not how stressful it

(18:42):
is that, you know, if I fall, that's it.
The better it turns out for me.
And I think like for a qualifiers, it's, you know, you have two routes.
So like I always think like, okay, like the next one can go better if this one is completely
bad.
But yeah, definitely semis and finals can be stressful.

(19:03):
And I've, you know, had my fair share of poor moments in both rounds.
But at the end of the day, like, you know, one round doesn't define who you are as a
climber.
And I think that just continually building experience over time helps you be the best
climber that you can be and build that confidence on that stage.

(19:23):
Okay, interesting.
Yeah, I've, I've always been curious because, I mean, I'm mainly just boulder, but I feel
like if I was on a lead route, like a semis or finals lead route, and it was like my one
shot and then I slipped early, that would be, it'd just be such a bummer.
Like you didn't get to show what you're capable of.

(19:45):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, but I think that's like the cool part about having most World Cups, like, you know,
if you make a mistake in one, like you have another one like the next week or two.
But you know, I think it is something that is really hard about the sport and something
that is unforgiving about it.
But also that's something that I like love about it as well, that it makes it more exciting

(20:06):
to me.
It makes it feel more freeing in some ways too, because I feel like when I'm on the wall,
this is like, yeah, the only thing that matters.
And once I come off the wall, either at the top or lower down, that's it, like the competition's
over and I don't need to think about it, or I can think about it as much as I want to.

(20:31):
So, you know, and I've definitely had both of those experiences where a comp will like
haunt me for a while or I'll just move on and go to the next one and just be like, okay,
that was, you know, not the experience I was hoping for, but remember all these times that
I've done well in competition and let's use that as motivation and confidence into this

(20:52):
next round.
Do you remember like the last time you slipped really early in a round or like made a big
mistake?
I mean, I would say the Olympics is kind of that.
I kind of like waffled a lot in like the rope round.
I came up with a couple of different solutions and just didn't really like fully commit to

(21:13):
the move at hand.
In part, maybe it was a little bit like finger related in retrospect, but really I think
that I just wasn't confident in my sequence on the wall and that cost me.
My like foot did like slip off, but you know, I was definitely in control and just was thinking

(21:34):
about other things rather than the movement fully at hand.
Was it just like about, you said you were thinking about other things.
Was it just about the whole Olympic experience or what was on your mind?
I think, well, for one, like I felt my finger, but I also tried to put like a high toe hook,

(21:54):
which was like one of the intended ways of like doing the sequence.
It didn't feel right for me.
And then trying to switch to a new way of doing it, I kind of got nervous and was like,
oh, is this the right way? And I like really had a lot of like questioning in my mind,
which is exactly like, you know, the reason why they put moves up there like that is to
make you second guess yourself.

(22:15):
And I did just that.
So I guess it's kind of just like about the confidence and just making a decision.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
Yeah, that's a lot of what lead comes down to because, you know, everyone in finals, I
would say, has the ability to, you know, climb 9A or like 9A plus and, you know, do the route

(22:36):
at hand.
But it's about whether you can put it all together in that one moment.
Okay.
And I also learned that in bouldering, semis is the hardest round.
Do you feel like it's similar for lead where the semis route is harder than like a finals
route?
It usually is.
Yeah, I think that in finals, they're looking for more tops and more people to get further

(22:57):
on it.
In semis, they're like, okay, whatever, we can like, you know, beat people down and make
it really hard.
And like that's okay.
I think it makes semis like really exciting.
And it also makes it a little bit more nerve wracking for the athletes as well.
So for the Olympics, you've been preparing your bouldering a lot.

(23:18):
At this point, after all the bouldering training, do you still feel nervous when you approach
like a dynamic boulder or like a slabby boulder?
I definitely feel nervous, but I think it's maybe not the same level of like nerves as
I would feel in lead, mainly because of what you mentioned before, where I know that if
I fall, I can try again.

(23:39):
And I think that especially in this format where falls truthfully like don't really
matter, like they're minus 0.1 and in a 200 point round, it's like, you know, a drop
in the bucket.
So I feel like for me, it's really about just consistently trying a move, learning a move
and you know, figuring it out more so than being nervous that I'm like not doing the

(24:02):
movement at hand.
I definitely get like frustrated and annoyed at myself if I like haven't done certain moves
after like a bouldering round.
But especially in that format, I feel like I'm not frustrated about like falling more
or I'm not frustrated about just having a lack of understanding of a movement from the

(24:23):
first time that I try it, as long as I can just try to do better.
And even, you know, at least in training that can include maybe never doing the move, but
just making progress on it is really important to me.
Yeah, yeah, I guess I didn't mean in terms of like only having one shot or like only
having a few tries.

(24:44):
But I mean, for me, if I there's times when I look at a boulder and I'm like, oh, I don't
think this is something I could ever do.
So I'm just kind of wondering, like, if you ever look at a boulder and still feel that
way, especially when it's like more dynamic or slab, because you don't get that practice

(25:06):
as much in lead routes.
Yeah, I think I think like I definitely feel like I'm not sure how this movement is going
to go.
Let me just try it sometimes and figure it out sort of on the wall.
And I think that's really like, you know, hit me hard sometimes where like, I don't
know how to do it still, even when I'm on the wall, or I am not sure how to commit to

(25:31):
the movement at hand, because I haven't figured out before.
But I think really like visualizing movement from the ground has been really helpful for
me with bouldering.
And it's honestly pushed my lead climbing as well, like, not just picturing, you know,
which hand goes where, but like, where are my hips going to be when I do this movement?
Where where like are my feet going to swing out into?

(25:55):
I think that just like some more subtle things to really think about the position of the
movement rather than just the movement of like, right hand left hand here, has been
kind of a progression in my climbing, I would say, and in my like, you know, route reading
as a whole.
Makes sense.
And so then, I guess going into the Olympics a bit, what was your strategy for the combined

(26:20):
format?
I mean, it looks like you decided to work really hard on boulder.
Did you ever consider just like doubling down on lead only?
Yeah, it's funny, like, in retrospect, like, I feel like bouldering didn't actually like
matter that much.
It really mattered, like, who could just get past like the bottom crux in in lead, as far

(26:42):
as like who would progress to finals.
Of course, it like mattered in the grand scheme.
But like, Tomoa, for instance, like, had one of the highest bouldering scores.
But because he didn't get past the crux on the lead route, he wasn't able to progress
to finals, which I think is like a bummer.
But that's kind of how the combined format goes sometimes.

(27:03):
So I think that like for...
Oh, sorry, was the...
So I mean, yeah, the boulder run in semis was really difficult.
I remember that.
Was the...
Oh, the semis lead route was the one where everyone had that foot slip, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, there were like six or seven people who like, yeah, fell in the same move, for
sure.

(27:23):
So yeah, it was kind of crazy for sure.
Like it was very unexpected, I would say.
And yeah, so I think that in retrospect, like, would practicing like lead have yielded a
different result?
I think probably.
But I also think that like the same could have been reverse where, you know, maybe the
boulder round would have been a little bit softer and it mattered more getting like each

(27:46):
top than like the lead route.
Maybe everyone had like a bottleneck on the lead route and which has happened like in
plenty of other comps.
So I think that coming into it, I just really wanted to feel like the most confident all-around
climber that I could.
And I think that I really did feel that way.
Of course, like I wasn't able to train like the way I wanted to do the finger injury,

(28:08):
but I think that I split my time throughout the year so that I focused on bouldering more
in the beginning and then ended on more ropes, honestly, than bouldering like almost like
60-40 or 70-30 towards like lead.
So that I would feel more confident in the thing that I feel the most like talented in

(28:31):
from the get-go.
I really do feel like I find a lot of joy in like training lead and I feel like it makes
me fall into like a good headspace.
So I think that that was really important like leading up to the Olympics.
Yeah, did you, when you like went back into training lead again, did you feel like boulder
training worsened your lead climbing ability?

(28:52):
Was that ever a fear?
I think that it wasn't a fear that it would like worsen it just by doing it, but just
that I would like lose some time training lead by doing it.
Like I really think that like part of like why I got injured maybe was just because of
like the high load that I had on myself, like weightlifting, bouldering training, lead training,

(29:17):
all kind of like confounding into one and then going into like a smaller competition.
I think that, you know, adding a lot of like pressure just like went to like a melting
pot that kind of like maybe exploded a little bit too soon.
So I think that for me like that's definitely something that I'm interested in focusing

(29:39):
on just like the load as a whole and making sure to control that as best I can.
Yeah, I guess we can get into this finger injury.
How early did it happen before the Olympics and like what specifically was the injury?
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Back to the show.
Yeah, so it's a flexor tendon injury.
I basically jumped to kind of like a slot hold and kind of hit it almost four, but then
like slipped to a three finger drag.

(30:48):
So my flexor tendon like it goes all the way down from like the base of my ring finger
to almost my elbow, honestly.
And I felt it at the base of my elbow.
Or I guess like right above the elbow.
And I was like, oh, that feels strange, but I didn't actually think that much of it.

(31:08):
So the next day I like came back to the gym.
It definitely was like way weaker and it felt a little off.
But I was like, okay, like I've had some like slight tweaks in my fingers before.
So I'm sure it's like just that.
Kept climbing on it for the next week or so.
And then I got it like, but then it didn't fully go away.
So I got it assessed by like RPT like Zach DeCristino and I could like barely just like

(31:36):
put weight on it by itself.
So we were like, oh, I guess that's like pretty bad.
And he was, so I decided to take a little bit of like time off.
But with his guidance, that was like quite hard because I had a couple of competitions
coming up, including like the Salt Lake World Cup.
But so I took like 10 days off and then slowly started just doing like light jug traversing.

(32:04):
But honestly, yeah, it didn't really go away for a long time.
I missed like the Salt Lake World Cup, which was like in the middle of May, I think.
And then I was like, okay, well, like, you know, my experience with finger injuries and
what he's telling me, like, it'll be back online at most, like, or at worst case scenario,

(32:25):
it'll be ready to go in like 12 weeks, which would be a bummer because I miss Innsbruck.
But at least I'm able to train leading up to like the Games.
And it did definitely improve, but it never fully went away.
And I think that for me, it was really important to like, like the Olympics kind of was like
a dream.
It was something that I was like, look forward to.

(32:47):
And I didn't want to be like an idiot and like make it significantly worse.
But I also didn't want to not do my best in the competition.
So it was a really challenging balance to find.
You know, as an athlete, we're constantly asking a lot of our bodies.
And I think that this was like the testament of that, of it feels like it's okay sometimes,

(33:09):
but I don't really know how far to push it.
So I really looked for PT guidance.
I've also been working with Carrie Cooper a decent amount, getting several opinions
on it.
And I think that throughout all of my training, it definitely was like acting up.
But kind of our rule is that if it can go away within like 30 seconds after you get

(33:31):
off the wall.
So say I like feel it while I'm climbing, I come down and it's still there.
That's like, okay, but if it doesn't go away as far as like an achiness sensation, then
I'm pushing it too hard.
So I shouldn't like try a climb like that again.

(33:51):
And I think that there were a lot of situations where it's like, oh, this is close because
it's like, you know, 25 seconds or like just about 30 seconds.
And it's like, does that mean I should try it again?
I'm not sure.
So I think that, yeah, so I think that I definitely pushed it as close to the limit as I could
leading up to the games.
And I think that, yeah, I just never fully went away.

(34:15):
And I think that even today, like I'm still fighting it.
Yesterday I had a PT session.
And one of the first things we did was like using a dynamometer, like just testing my
like general grip strength.
So my like right hand is still like 30 pounds weaker than my like left.

(34:35):
So I don't know.
It's like definitely frustrating because it's definitely been here for so long.
But I think it's also just because of that, you know, Olympic pressure that I put on myself.
I haven't been able to give it the time that it needs to heal.
And I'm really hopeful that I still have like the opportunity to do that this fall.
Yeah.

(34:56):
Have you ever had a finger injury that lasted this long?
Yeah, I've never actually had finger injuries, I guess, knock on wood.
So I think that I think that's actually part of it too, is like I don't have the experience
to understand when I'm pushing it too hard because I haven't had anything like this before.
Like even in the beginning, like I said, like I climbed on it just because I didn't really

(35:16):
understand how severe it was at the time.
So I think looking back, that would have, you know, been one of the biggest changes
that I would have had for myself.
Just like understanding.
No, this is like serious.
Like you should take a little bit more time off, give it the chance to heal then so that
you're not dealing with it like many months in the future.
So yeah.
Yeah.

(35:37):
So then leading up to Olympics, what was your training schedule looking like?
I'm assuming it was like you weren't working at that time.
I was still working part time.
I think that, yeah, like I said before, I think that just like having that balance really
helps me mentally and especially actually with an injury.
Like I think that being able to succeed in other things, like it was really nice to have

(36:00):
that like, yeah, extra experience as well or other things to focus on.
Because I think climbing was definitely, you know, getting to me a bit.
Like I think that, you know, rather than pushing myself to like new levels, like I was just
trying to catch up to where I had been before, which mentally was like definitely a challenge

(36:23):
and something that I struggled with a lot.
You know, I think that it's just one of those events that you like want to be in peak shape
and it was just a real struggle to, you know, mentally deal with this idea that I'm not
going to be in peak shape, but I can try to get as close as I can to it.
But what does that mean?
And am I really progressing my session to session and what does this look like?

(36:45):
So I did keep like a journal leading up to the Olympics of like accomplishments and each
day that I would go into the gym, I would try to like look for something positive that
I had done in a session.
Maybe it was like sending a climber circuit that I hadn't done before, or maybe it was
like sending like a boulder that I hadn't done before, or maybe it was just as simple

(37:06):
as like, hey, like last time, like I wasn't able to last through like five circuits and
this time I was.
So that's like a check and like something that I approved on.
So I think, yeah, just like finding the small wins was like super important mentally for
me, like leading up to the Olympics.
And honestly, I think that any climber who maybe is like, you know, maybe in a bit of

(37:27):
a plateau or like feeling like they're not improving, keeping some kind of like journal
like that, I think really helped me like stay positive towards my training.
Well, I guess in what ways do you feel like your finger held you back leading up to the
Olympics and during?
There was definitely some movement that I couldn't do.
So like maybe jumping to like smaller crimps or maybe we'd have like coordination moves

(37:49):
on like bouldering rounds that I was trying.
We had like a campus move in the Chamonix like, the finals that I went to that was just
basically like a campus move on crimps.
And I think that it's hard because always like mentally I'm like, oh, is it just that
mentally I'm not confident in this kind of movement or is it that my finger is really

(38:12):
hurting a lot and I can't do it?
And I feel like finding that balance of understanding and being able to be confident even in something
that isn't working fully right is really hard versus like knowing when to just like take
a step back because this is too hard and this isn't, you know, the proper thing to be doing
to make sure that I'm the most healthy that I can be.

(38:34):
A lot of coordination moves too, like I would maybe feel it the first couple of times and
I would be like, oh, should I keep trying it and it's confusing because maybe the second
time I don't feel it, but the first time I felt it and the third time I felt it.
So it's like, yeah, a really interesting space to be in and something that I've learned a
lot about like how mentally to be able to push myself, but also take like restraint

(39:03):
and try to limit myself as well because yeah, like as I said, like as an athlete, like I
feel like my job is to push, is to dig deep, is to find new levels of understanding of
what I can do.
At the same time, I think that we're learning more and more that it's as important for athletes

(39:26):
to take grace towards themselves so that they can live to be the best athlete for a longer
time.
I feel like being an athlete in the sport for, you know, when I'm 80 and still like
showing up to your crag and trying to, you know, set a project there is like really important
to me.
So I don't want to be like a broken body after every like Olympics I've been to and every

(39:49):
World Cup that I've wanted to achieve.
Like I really want it to be a long lasting pursuit for me where I'm constantly able to
find out what I'm capable of given the body that I have.
Yeah, definitely.
So then going forward with the finger injury, I mean, it sounds like you're still dealing
it with it to this day.
But you're also doesn't really seem like you're taking a break.

(40:12):
So is that like something where you should continue climbing on it?
Or do you think giving it a bigger break would be helpful?
Yeah, so this is definitely something that I've asked, you know, the PTs that I've worked
with.
I think that I did take like a week off and I think that it seems like it might help a

(40:34):
little bit.
But my understanding is that like most finger injuries benefit from loading in some way.
So I guess like, you know, like 20 years ago or whatever, if you like hurt a finger, it
was like, okay, like to stop climbing.
And then when it's healed, like come back.
But I think a lot of the more like modern research shows that like loading it does help

(40:57):
it heal faster.
But I think it's about being smart with that loading.
And I'm not saying that like I've always been smart, especially like leading up to the training
for the Olympics.
Like, I think, as I said, I was really trying to find that edge of letting it heal, but
also like get my body to its like highest capability that I could be going into the
competition.

(41:17):
So I think now I'm falling back a little bit where I'm like, okay, it's not time to like
push to try to be like in Olympic shape.
So like, let's try to push it more safely.
So maybe that's like, right now, it looks more like limiting my climbing to about like
80% of where I was at before, but trying to include more like finger strengthening exercises.

(41:44):
So that's been like three finger drive like repeaters for me on a hangboard.
And going into this week, I'll be doing starting to do like weighted hangs actually, which
I'm kind of excited for as well.
Like I would say that I've had strong fingers for a long time, but I don't think that my
fingers I've always wondered like, you know, if I push my fingers a little bit more, what

(42:06):
they could do.
So I think it'll be, you know, as far as like trying to stay optimistic, which I think is
really important for injuries.
I think that trying to look at it as like an opportunity to grow as a climber is important.
And I'm not saying that I've done that, you know, every week.
And I think more weeks than not, I've definitely just been bummed about it.

(42:27):
But I think like, especially starting this new cycle of like strengthening, I'm pretty
excited to, you know, see what that can do for my climbing as a whole.
Okay, well, best of luck to you there.
I hope that your finger gets better soon.
It's been a while.
Yeah, yeah, pretty crazy.
So then back to the Olympics, just the Olympics in general, not even the climbing part.

(42:50):
How was your like Olympic Village experience?
Was there anything surprising there for you?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, always going to look back on like riding a boat with LeBron, I guess.
And I think that that was like pretty crazy.
Like I think I wasn't fully prepared or like understand understood the idea that like,

(43:10):
LeBron was just like treated equally, like, you know, having like Simone or other great
like athletes like just like walking down the street and, you know, staying in the same
places that we were like, I think that that was just mind boggling as like a climber just
because, you know, like, we're definitely like treated really well now, like going into
like World Cups, like, you know, we actually have like hotel rooms and like places to stay

(43:33):
and like accommodation that like is like mostly figured out.
But I feel like there it just felt like I was treated fully like an athlete, like a
professional and my needs were like, yeah, fully met from, you know, food to laundry
to, you know, if we want to get like haircuts or like have like doctor appointments, like

(43:55):
it really felt like almost like socialist society where it's like everyone gets the
same gets equal treatment, but treatment is like very out of the high level.
Like we wear the same clothing, like we're all given like the same clothes.
And of course you have like a little bit of choice, but it all has like similar emblems
and signs on it.
So yeah, it was a it was a really like special experience.

(44:17):
And yeah, one that I'll always like cherish like the memories of for sure.
Anyone, any like other athlete that you met that you kind of like fanboyed over?
For sure.
I mean, I think that well, I'll say two things.
One was that I think it was really interesting to have other athletes that in other sports

(44:38):
like be like, oh, you're a climber.
Like that's so cool.
Or I even had I don't know, I feel weird like saying this, like I don't mean it as like
a brag, but like I had like a volleyball player like recognize me in an elevator.
And I feel like that's just like so strange, like like to have climbing be at that level
where like other athletes are like recognizing the athletes and other in like our sport is

(45:02):
just really a change in scenery, I would say.
As far as like, yeah, being a fanboy, like, I don't know, Brooke and I like talked to
like Jordan Childs like at one point, and I feel like that was like a cool experience.
I think that we had conversations with like the women's basketball team, which is like

(45:23):
super cool.
I met like some of like the rowing team and of course, like a ton of other athletes.
My mom is like a artistic swimmer and I got to like meet some of the artistic swimmers
there.
So I was definitely being a fanboy over that for sure.
Cool.
I had no idea that your mom was an artistic swimmer.

(45:44):
That's so interesting.
Yeah, yeah.
Like she competed or?
She still does actually.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's pretty cool for sure.
That's right.
Get some of my grit from.
Yeah, I guess not an Olympic level or did she ever do like Olympic competitions and that?
No, yeah, she's done world competitions, but are like international events, but she kind

(46:05):
of started I think in her 20s.
So she's been doing it for like a long time.
She also does like shows and stuff like that as well, which is like quite cool.
It's cool.
Yeah, it's cool to know that like a volleyball player knows about climbing, but maybe that's
something we should like try to get more used to because that means I mean, it's like almost

(46:26):
kind of sad that we're just like, oh, well, no one should know about climbing.
Like that would be weird if people knew about that.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I still get surprised when people tell me that they like watched like climbing in
the Olympics, but I don't know, maybe maybe we shouldn't be surprised.
It's time to stop being surprised.

(46:46):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, as like the yeah, older dude in the sport, it's like it's just so crazy to see
it transition and change over time.
And I think that I'm still like biased by my perception of like, I don't know, being
picked on for climbing like as a kid in like high school or or like middle school.
So I feel like that.

(47:07):
Yeah, impression of it from the outside world is still with me a little bit, but you're
totally right.
Like I think that it's time that like climbing is like treated like a real sport and like
this is like the trajectory of it.
So let's embrace it.
Yeah, very exciting.
And so yeah, you talked about afterwards the post Olympic blues.

(47:27):
I think I've heard about that a little bit.
But how did that manifest for you?
Yeah, I think that, you know, even to this day, like, I still feel like there's like
a piece of me that that has it.
Basically, like, I think that if you're going to focus on one goal for so long, and have
it not go the way you want it to, it's going to be really hard to jump back from that and

(47:48):
re put all this energy that you've like been building over time into something else.
For me, like, I think what especially hit hard was just like that I still had a finger
injury.
I think that I had suppressed that idea in me, even though I'm like, I've been talking
about it.
I think going into the Olympics, I was like, Okay, I don't have a finger injury.
That's not the kind of like climber I am right now.

(48:09):
And I think I really convinced myself of that, so that I had the best opportunity to perform
at the highest level I could mentally, like I didn't want to be thinking about my finger
on the wall.
I ended up having that happen a little bit because I ended up feeling it on one of the
moves.
But I think that to suppress this notion of like who you actually are, which is that like

(48:30):
I'm an injured climber right now.
And then to come out of that and be like, like, wait, like I'm injured, like that doesn't
that's like so different than the reality that I tried to wake up in like a few days
ago.
It was really hard for me to make that switch and not have anything in climbing that I could
like look forward to as much anymore.

(48:51):
Like for instance, like I was like, okay, like, if the Olympics don't go great, like
I'll go like shun it outside for the fall season.
But even now, like it's like, okay, actually, like, now is like rehab time, and I can't
like, you know, go play in forests easily, or at like the level that I wanted to.
And I think that even in magic with like, as I said before, that was like, the challenge

(49:12):
for me was like, okay, I just need to have fun at the level of I'm at and like not hurt
myself while doing that.
Well, I guess in this case, it almost, it doesn't even sound like post Olympic blues
kind of just like injury blues.
Yeah, I mean, I think I think the goal piece of like the Olympics definitely like contributed.
So I think that I think that if it wasn't like a high pressure environment of like the

(49:36):
Olympics, like I wouldn't have, it wouldn't have hit me as hard.
I think that, yeah, it was just something that like, I had been looking forward to having
fun on that stage and fully like believing in myself like, and just coming out of it,
not having like those like simpler expectations in my head of like, performing my best and

(50:00):
being confident, not having those smaller ideas come to fruition was just really challenging
for me to grapple with.
And it's hard to like imagine like, you know, maybe I'll go for LA like in four years, maybe
I won't, but it was definitely like a once in a lifetime competition.
So to have it not be not have myself not be where I want to be, it's just hard to come

(50:27):
out the other side and be fully satisfied.
Yeah, do you have any regrets in terms of your training for the Olympics?
Or is there anything you think you should have changed in hindsight?
Yeah, I think that if I were to do it all again, I think I probably would have spent
a little bit less time in the earlier part of the season focusing on like strength and
conditioning.

(50:49):
I wouldn't have like put it away, but I think that, you know, I was doing it at least like
three times a week and I think I would have probably dropped it more.
I think that I always just like ended my sessions with it.
So I always was like more tired coming into like the next one.
I also think that I would have probably, yeah, focused a little bit more heavily like on

(51:10):
lead leading up to the comp.
But you know, you live and you learn and I don't have any like regrets, I would say.
I just have, you know, new perspectives and new things that I'm going to bring to my
training going forward.
Yeah, and so you mentioned that after the Olympics, it's kind of like weird not really

(51:32):
having such a specific goal anymore.
What is kind of your goal now?
Yeah, I think rehab is like the goal for sure.
I think that I want to feel healthy on the wall.
I want to feel like I'm able to push myself fully.
So I think that just, yeah, gearing down, putting blinders on to everything else that's

(51:55):
happening and just trying to be back to what I know I can be is the key goal for the fall.
Any like outdoor goals?
Definitely, yeah.
And I think that's also hard because I, you know, there are different seasons that I'm
like, oh, it'd be so cool if I could be ready for, you know, climbing in like Yosemite in
the end of October or like climbing in this crag around like Utah by the middle of October.

(52:19):
But I think I'm also trying to keep perspective that it's important to not get my expectations
too high.
I'm kind of looking more like to the winter or spring now for pushing, yeah, the outdoor
goals.
So I haven't really made any specific plans, but definitely excited to go on a sports trip,

(52:42):
for instance, like in the winter, later winter months.
But I think that based on talking to like my PT yesterday, like it sounds like it could
be another like three months before I'm like fully back.
Yeah.
That's kind of rough.
That's a shame.
Yeah.
You also mentioned maybe considering LA 2028, especially if they like split out the disciplines

(53:07):
for LA.
I think I mean, that would be a cool opportunity, right?
I think they've been climbing has been awarded three medals for LA, but they're going to
wait till March to decide like which disciplines to include.
So I think that I've heard things about like, you know, maybe even like a speed relay being
included as opposed to another discipline.

(53:27):
So we'll see, you know, like if they actually break it up in the way that us climbers like
understand.
I have a lot of hope that that will happen because it just like logically makes the most
sense to me.
But I think it will be a question until March as far as like what the organizers decide to
do because like ultimately like the Olympics, unfortunately is more about views and what

(53:51):
they think they're going to get the most excitement out of.
So it definitely doesn't have to align with like what us as climbers like understand it
to be.
But it would definitely be nicer if it was.
Well, that's the first time I've heard anyone say that maybe they're like considering speed
relays instead of breaking out the bouldering and lead.

(54:17):
That's interesting.
I get it, I guess.
Yeah, I mean, I think that to me it would be kind of crazy.
And that's just like one idea that I've heard.
I think they're doing like a simulation event in Spain sometime in the fall.
So yeah, I guess we'll see how that goes.
But yeah, I think it would be crazy if they decided to do anything else besides splitting

(54:39):
up the three disciplines.
Yeah, I mean, I think like as a climber, that does sound kind of crazy.
But thinking about the Olympics, I could see that happening.
Like that does make sense.
It does kind of track.
But okay, that's interesting to know.
If they do split up the disciplines or even if they don't, what would go into your like

(55:04):
thought process or decision process for whether or not you would want to go for it again?
Yeah, honestly, I think it's like mainly about where I'm finding joy in the sport.
I think that for me, I really want to continue finding meaning out of my life.
And I think that, as I mentioned before, climbing sometimes does feel a little self-centered

(55:28):
and self-focused.
But I also, of course, love it and love the challenges it provides.
So I think that I want to understand my relationship with it while coming out of this, having a
healed finger, making sure that I'm both mentally and physically healthy before deciding fully

(55:48):
to go for it.
Because I think I, yeah, if I can avoid it, I would rather not go into another Olympic
cycle having so much pressure on me that maybe led to an injury and maybe led to me continuing
to not deal with an injury.

(56:08):
But I think that's a reality of sports in general, that you're maybe going to have
to fight through what your body is telling you just to perform at your best for your
dreams to come true too.
So I guess that's a long-winded answer.
But I think I'm excited right now.

(56:29):
I think that I find a lot of joy from climbing.
I find it to be one of the most thrilling activities in my life.
And I think that as long as I can keep that up, I think that there's not much of a question
to my mind that I want to keep going for it.
But I do want to take time to reflect on the past four years, honestly, and reflect on
my life as a whole before fully committing to what that next four years looks like.

(56:53):
Okay.
It's interesting that your consideration is mainly, I mean, you've said a couple of times
now that you feel like it's kind of a selfish sport or that it's very focused on you.
I feel like for most people, their decision for whether or not they want to continue climbing
or competition climbing is just how hard the training is or how you're performing.

(57:21):
Does that not really affect your decision at all?
I love the training.
I love pushing myself to that level.
I think that it's just so fun for me to be in a space where it's like, oh, I don't know
if I can do this.
And then you try it and maybe you don't do it.
And then it's like, okay, well, I still don't know if I can do this.

(57:42):
And then just continuing that process is truly beautiful for me.
But as far as like, and of course that changes sometimes.
Not every day I'm that stoked to be like 10 circuits deep and yeah, just like my arms
are on fire and I'm like, why am I here?

(58:05):
But I think that at the core, I think that the training for me is super exciting.
But I think that just coming from a family of social workers and other do-gooders in
the world, I do want to make sure that I'm leaving the world a little bit better than
I started.

(58:25):
So I am finding other meaning, whether it be working with Protector Winters or other
nonprofits.
I think that for me, in addition to the work that I do, just using maybe the platform of
the Olympics or just like my time as like a human to try to progress the world to the

(58:49):
state that I'm hoping it'll get to some year down the line is really important to
me too.
Yeah.
Tell me more about like the work that you do for Protector Winters.
Yeah.
So it's relatively new.
Climbing like sort of just joined their roster this past year.
It's of course been something that's a lot more focused on like winter sports, hence

(59:13):
the name, but they're really trying to like branch out.
But basically, they're a climate-focused, climate-activism-focused group.
And basically, the idea is to organize and bring like athletes together who participate
in outdoor sports to understand like how we can make a difference in climate change.

(59:38):
I think that using our platforms and our position as people who have all seen the outdoors changing
in our lifetime, especially in climbing, I feel like as a kid, I could send really hard
in the red in the summer.
Of course, the main season to send hard when I was growing up was October down in the southeast.

(01:00:04):
That season has continually shifted.
And I think that's happened all around us, whether it be in Salt Lake, like the wildfire
smoke or smog, or even we had our leadership summit for POW in Montana, which also had
a bunch of fires.
But basically just recognizing that the climate is changing.

(01:00:26):
And I think that that's true in outdoor climbing.
It's also true for competitions being canceled with flooding or extreme heat, which we saw
in the OQS series, where athletes aren't able to perform their best.
And yeah, I'm worried about the outdoors, but also even in competition, I think that
events are continually being moved indoors rather than keeping them outdoors just because

(01:00:51):
it's so risky what you're going to get for the outdoor climate at the time of the competition.
And that's a real bummer to not be able to fit as many spectators inside and also just
not to be able to have this beautiful mountains, which I always associate with World Cups in
the background.
But anyway, yeah, Protector Winter is right now is mainly focused on getting out the vote

(01:01:16):
and trying to promote candidates who are climate focused and willing to accept that climate
change is real and they want to do something about it.
Okay.
Well, thank you for sharing about that.
Yeah, and in terms of venues going indoors, Salt Lake used to be outdoors and now it's

(01:01:36):
in the training center.
How do athletes feel about that?
Yeah, I did attend as a spectator, but a year or two ago, it was insane with the flooding
in the field.
I think it cost us climbing many thousands of dollars to fix the field after the fact.

(01:01:56):
And I think that just because it's a temporary event and then they move it, but it damaged
the field based on the stadium and all the spectators walking around on wet grass that
then became mud pretty fast.
So anyway, that's a long-winded answer.
But I think for me, it's a real bummer to not be able to have climbing be in a more

(01:02:20):
centered stadium where outsiders or people who have never seen it, they're driving down
the street and they're like, oh, what the heck is that?
And it's like an introduction to what climbing is rather than being in a warehouse where
it's very enclosed.
It's a space that is not as bright and sunny and is not showing the connection of nature

(01:02:44):
to climbing, which I think is a really important aspect of the indoor sport that I feel like
we're continually losing over time.
I'm the last one to say that I'm not a gym rat because I've been in the gym basically
for the past nine months.
But I think that the more that the indoor scene can be connected to the outdoors, I

(01:03:06):
think one on just the ethics of climbing can be maintained more.
But also, yeah, just as far as finding joy in nature, I think that separation is becoming
more and more clear between indoors and outdoors.
And I just hope that competition climbing can maintain a little bit of that outdoor

(01:03:31):
exposure too.
And then really quick, I was just thinking, I mean, because it is protect our winters
and you said that climbing is new to it.
It just reminded me about ice climbing.
Is that something that you're ever interested in trying?
Or have you done it?
I've tried it once.
Yeah, and I hated it.

(01:03:52):
I already have such cold hands and I feel like it was so rough.
I think that if I went with someone who knew a lot more about what they were doing or if
I had a specific objective, I think mixed climbing could be really cool.
But yeah, for me right now, I'm really interested in pushing myself within the realm of what

(01:04:15):
my hands can do.
So I feel like, yeah, maybe that kind of climbing will be in my future.
But for now, yeah, I think just focusing on rock climbing will be my focus for the near
future.
Okay.
I mean, it wouldn't make the finger injury worse.
So maybe it would be good for that.

(01:04:37):
Yeah, maybe now.
Yeah, for sure.
Okay, cool.
So those were all the questions that I had, but we had a few discord questions that I
wanted to go over as well.
So well, the first one was just, why does it seem as though you're literally friends
with every climber in the climbing circuit?
You're too popular.

(01:04:57):
I guess that was more of just a statement.
That's funny.
I feel like I'm not actually friends with everyone, but I feel like, yeah, it's definitely
important or like it's something that differentiates climbing from other sports where I feel like
we're friendly with our competitors.
We like to give beta and information to each other to all have a level playing field.

(01:05:20):
And I think that's a really beautiful part of the sport.
Even in the Olympics, it's like I'm talking to competitors from other countries about
what they think they're going to do in certain sequences.
And yeah, what other sports do you have that?
I feel like there's this really intense competition that I feel like I felt from other sports
that is definitely like seeping into climbing, but I feel like the longer we can maintain

(01:05:43):
that the longer climbing will be special and not something that has just absorbed into
the sporting world as a whole.
Yeah.
Have you noticed that it's gotten more competitive with the Olympics coming into play?
Yeah, I definitely think that the World Cup season leading into the Olympics was one of
the most intense environments that I've felt, especially like Bird, which is like the world

(01:06:05):
championships like last year.
I feel like Ever was just in their zone.
Not many people were making jokes or looking like they were having just fun.
A lot of people in isolation were trying to one up each other or something like that,
which I think is common and can be really enjoyable and playful.

(01:06:26):
But it just felt like way more of an intense environment than when I'm used to in the sport,
for sure.
Yeah, I wonder if it was even worse during the OQS series.
I feel like there was a lot of intense stuff happening around that time.
Yeah, for sure.
I can't really speak to that, but I'm sure it was a pretty intense environment for sure.

(01:06:52):
Yeah, even during the Pan Ams when you qualified, I feel like that was also probably a pretty
emotionally volatile moment for you.
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I think that it's the epitome of wanting your competitors to do well, but not letting
that affect how you climb and not letting your goals of winning change who you are as

(01:07:18):
a person as well, which I think that is really hard to lose on that kind of stage.
Yeah, like the other Americans who were there, I wanted nothing but for them to be able to
do their best.
And yeah, it just is so hard to have your dreams come at the expense of others.
Yeah, so that kind of leads into the next question, which is who do you think are the

(01:07:40):
next dominant climbers in the new generation?
Whoa.
It's crazy seeing the level just of the climbers coming into the training center, people moving
out to Salt Lake City.
It's funny to call them the next generation because I feel like they're already here,

(01:08:02):
you know, the Tobias and Serratos of the world, they're seven, eight years younger than me.
And I feel like that is the next generation in many ways.
But as far as Americans, which I'm assuming the question maybe is, I don't know.
It wasn't specified, so you could get into both if you want.
Yeah, I mean, I feel like there already are several, it's funny to call them like teenagers,

(01:08:28):
but it is true, like who have like many names for themselves by like qualifying for like
World Cups this past year or the year before, like Bob Dylan, Hugo Boyer and like Adam Shahar
are like some of the first names that come to mind just because they've like been to
like World Cups and definitely like the level is like really impressive to see.

(01:08:51):
I'm sure I'm like missing some names there, but I think that yeah, the next generation
is coming and it's like super cool for me to like see climbing being pushed to like
new levels for sure.
Yeah, do you feel like you can tell there's a difference between like the way they grew
up with climbing versus maybe how you grew up with climbing?

(01:09:12):
Yeah, I mean, not to talk about them specifically, but I think in general, like more kids of
that age are growing up with like remote high school, for instance, which I feel like is
like so different than like my generation and like just this idea of like remote school
is like much different.
I think that there is a lot more focus and just pursuit of like purely competition climbing

(01:09:36):
and maybe not a balance, which I feel like is what I sort of grew up with.
But I think that some of them also like bring both to the table and I am hopeful that like
there's continual like mentorship in like both spaces.
Yeah, and I also I guess I didn't mention like Annie Sanders, but really cool to see
her like just like yeah, I get a medal at like the World Cup this past season as well.

(01:10:01):
So yeah, they're definitely here and definitely coming.
Yeah, yeah, she's been crushing it.
Okay, and the last question, do you see your professional athletic career and your engineering
career intersecting at some point, such as maybe something like assistive technology
that could be applied to a para climbing application?

(01:10:22):
Or do you always prefer to keep them separate?
Yeah, if anyone has any connections out there, definitely hit me up.
But yeah, I definitely have thought about that for a while.
I think especially with like para being included in LA, like it would be really meaningful
for me to get to do something in that space.
So I have thought about it for a while.
I think that I don't need to have them be separate, but I think definitely having like

(01:10:46):
projects in both spaces, like I wouldn't necessarily just want to build a device for me, you know,
for me to like pursue climbing at like a higher level solely.
But I think that like, the more I get involved in like both areas, like the more I'm interested
in what new technology can progress like my sport, or like sports in general, for sure.

(01:11:07):
So yeah, it's definitely an interesting question.
And I think that like, for me, it's just about advancing like human performance, whether that
be myself or like other people's.
So I'm like interested in those kinds of questions as a whole.
Okay, have you like had any ideas come to mind?
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I think that even some of the devices that I've like worked with in my lab currently,

(01:11:35):
just to back up, I worked with an organization called Peak Potential, which like helped children
with like various physical disabilities learn how to like rock climb.
And I think like those assistive devices, such as like a shoulder device to help people
like lift their arms up over their head could definitely be used in the kind of like assistive

(01:11:55):
climbing space as well.
So I think that that would be really cool to, you know, tie in those kinds of devices
to kids or even adult para climbers as well, just to, you know, I think a lot of that is
like more for rehab.
So like, regaining mobility, so maybe it wouldn't actually be applied to para climbers, or like

(01:12:18):
professional, like para climbers, but like people who are looking to get more like rehab
out of the sport, which that organization was like focused on, it could be a really
useful device.
Because right now, like other volunteers are like sort of like lifting their arms over
their head for them.
So what if we had like a robot do the same task instead?

(01:12:40):
Exciting.
And okay, well, I think that is all the questions I had.
Any like final thoughts you wanted to get out there?
No, I think I guess the only other thing that not to like make it too political, but like
I do think that for me as like climber, like looking into like my future, like I definitely

(01:13:01):
think that like voting is like super important coming up.
And yeah, hoping that everyone out there like registers to vote.
Okay.
I mean, not a fully US podcast, but for the people in the US.
Yeah, go on and vote.
And for everyone else.
Not in the US.
Yeah, just encourage your US friends to vote, I guess.

(01:13:22):
Yeah.
And just enjoy all the political memes, I guess, that come out of the process.
Yeah, for sure.
Geez.
Oh my god, so many.
There's some good stuff out there.
Yeah.
And songs.
And songs.
Yeah.
Oh, like the Charlie XCX Sprat coconut meme.

(01:13:45):
Oh, maybe.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Just from like the last debate, I feel like I'm like, yeah, not that great at singing,
but like I feel like, yeah, there were just ones of like taking different phrases and
Are you talking about the cat one?
Yes, I am.
Okay.
I was like, do I sing it on air right now?
Or like, yeah.
If you want, you can go for it.
I'll put in a clip.

(01:14:07):
Yeah, maybe that would just be better.
And I can voice over it.
They're eating the dogs.
They're eating the dogs.
They're eating the cats.
That's just been in my head for days.
Days.
Oh my gosh.
I'm so behind.
I only saw it like yesterday.
But I'm glad you're very in on the loop with that meme.

(01:14:31):
It'll still come out in like three weeks, so it might be old by then.
Yeah, true.
I'm surrounded by a lot of like teens throughout my day.
And yeah, there's a lot of memes.
Yeah, that's true.
You know, I'm surrounded by like some kids during like climbing training.

(01:14:53):
And there are definitely points.
They were like, there was like a group of them and they were like hangboarding and they
were singing like the skibbity song.
I was like, I'm too old for this now.
Yeah, I feel that way a lot, honestly.
Or just even some of the words like, yeah, well, it's a full education in there.

(01:15:14):
Yeah, I mean, I knew it was a thing, but I didn't know they just went around singing
it.
That's like a little too much for me.
But yeah, I'm sure you're surrounded by a lot more kids than I am on the day to day
or teens.
Maybe, maybe.
It's terrifying.
Okay.
Cool.
Well, I think that's all the questions I had.
Thank you for joining me today.

(01:15:36):
Want to let people know where they can find you?
Oh, sure.
Yeah, mostly like on Instagram, I guess.
And yeah, I think that's kind of it, I would say for now.
Okay.
Yeah, I will leave the link in the description.
So yeah, thank you so much.
It was amazing to talk to you.
Cool.
Yeah, thank you so much as well.
This was a lot of fun.

(01:15:56):
Thank you so much for making it to the end of the podcast.
Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoyed.
Otherwise you are a super fake climber.
If you're listening on a podcasting platform, I'd appreciate if you rated it five stars
and you can continue the discussion on the free competition climbing discord linked in
the description.

(01:16:17):
Thanks again for listening.

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Ep 27: Jesse Grupper - Competing at the Olympics Injured

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 27: Jesse Grupper - Competing at the Olympics Injured