TRENDING: "The Curious Case of Natalia Grace" is Back- Mega Mix Recap: Ep 1 (part 2)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back. We're your hosts. I'm Ashley Love Richards.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
I'm Ali Warhol.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
That new documentary that came out is The Curious Case
of Natalia Grace, and you can find it on Oh.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
In Canada, I have to go through Amazon Prime and
pay for something else anyway here.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
I don't know where I watched it because there are
like eighty streaming platforms now, and then some of them combined, okay,
like HBO combined with Discovery or something. I don't even know.
It's very confusing. So I believe that the Natalia Grace
documentary is on HBO Slash Discovery, and then I also
have the Discovery A yeah, so I'm really confused.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
I also did watch twenty seven parts of it in
three minute clips on TikTok.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I did watch a bunch of clutch would drive me insane.
So you could do it that way, or you could
be a normal person one of those streaming platforms. If
you're in Canada, pay five dollars. If you're here, well,
I guess it depends on if you whatever. Anyways, that's
why we both watched. I watched it. I text Aali
and I was like, holy fucking shit, you need to
watch this documentary because I sure am very much tripping

(01:10):
out about everything, and then you watched it and we
had to do an update because now that my opinion
has changed pretty drastically, I want to be on the
right side of history on things, you know, so I
don't want My last thing that I said about Natalia
Grace is that I think she's probably an evil adult, right.

(01:32):
I think this update was important to do for that reason.
Also because if y'all haven't seen the documentary, woof, there
is so much God I almost feel like we should
have done a binger bust on this, but it was
six months so just kidding. Listen, we're not going to
go over in Natalia's whole story because, like I said,
I've already done that in another episode. I reposted it

(01:53):
before this one, so you didn't have to go digging
around our feed with insane amounts episodes to go find it.
So listen to that first. As we are not going
to explain her whole story. We don't have time, but
let's kind of get into get into it, get into
what we saw in the documentary and why it has

(02:14):
changed our opinions.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
So I thought, first of all that it was really
interesting that the father and the son were part of
the documentary and the mother, Christine was not, and it
kind of became almost a bit of a Christine smear campaign.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Rightly, Yeah, so I think rightly. So, So let's identify
really quick the main players. We've got Natalia Grace, Christine Barnett,
the adoptive quote mom. Yeah, Michael Barnett, the adoptive quote dad.
And then the son who participated in the documentary, the
one who had been super genius. I think he had

(02:48):
done TEDx talks and shit.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
The funny thing with him is that he was told
at a young age he might not even speak right
because he's on the autism spectrum, and he was seemingly
very delayed as a young child. And then, and with
Christine's love that she wrote a book about, he became
a genius and went to university at fourteen.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Oh was it because of her? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:07):
I believe this gave her this sort of white savior complex,
and that's why she wanted to adopt a special needs child,
which is why they adopted in Italia, because she wanted
another project. And I think early on she realized this
was more than she signed.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Up for whoa, I bit off more than I could chew,
by the way. Unfortunately, at least on thriftbooks dot Com,
The Spark, A Mother's Story of Nurturing has a four
point eight by two hundred and seventy five thousand, nine
hundred and thirty reviewers.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
That's probably before the documentary came out.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Probably so this lady's a cunt. Christine Barnett totally. Yeah.
So she wrote this book, The Spark, A Mother's Joy
of Nurturing, Genius and Autism, about her son, Jacob Barnett,
who she turned into a genius via her love. Pretty
amazing stuff, Pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
So they specific wanted a child with special needs. I
believe this said in the documentary. And again I think
she thought this was book two. She's going to fix
this kid, She's going to make her amazing and then
look at what an amazing mother she is. That was
her plan, I believe.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yeah. So, if we're going to play armschair psychiatrist, extreme narcissism, yeah,
like textbook.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
What we knew initially before the documentary, We didn't really
hear about all the horrible abuse in Italia went through
at the Barnett home.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Oh no, no, no, Also, like Ali mentioned, it is
Michael and Jacob participating in the documentary, not Christine at all,
not that I want to even hear Christine's story because
I just know she's a monster. But Michael's scenes were
so fucking planned out, so theatric and performed so theatrical,

(04:50):
like this man was trying to win an oscar. The
very end of the documentary ends with him, Oh, did
you want me to cry during that part? Yeah? Did
you want me to give you the crying version? And
then he laughs and then the documentary ends boiler alert.
But I was just like, whoa do you want me
to give you the crying version? This man is definitely

(05:11):
trying to weave a narrow in which he's completely into.

Speaker 2 (05:15):
It's a Christine smear campaign, That's what it is.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
It is, rightfully so. But it's really funny because in
Michael trying to prove his own innocence, he just proves
his own guilt.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Well why he got arrested as well. We're kind of
skipping a little bit.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
Forward, right, so we'll get to that, okay. As you know,
Christine immediately is like, oh my god, this child is
an adult. She has pubic hair, she has period stains
in her underwear. Allie's raising a finger. Yes, Sally, I.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Got to talk about the pubes.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
I got to talk about the pubes.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
So there is a condition called precocious puberty, and it
can be brought on by extreme sexual abuse in young children.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
Also, there's a lot of people who mention how sexual
Natalia was. Hey kind of skipping around, but she spent
time at an institution, which ooh, that part really gives
me pause, which we'll get to. But her neighbors talk
about how she was trying to hit on a little
boy and maybe that's because it was her fucking peer

(06:20):
and she's not a pedophile. The neighbors said that Natalia
is sexual with the adult men. But it's like, well,
if you've been sexually abused and you've been taught that
that's how you receive attention and love and whatever, I mean,
I can fully admit, like two hands in the air,
Daddy issues right here. Okay, twelve years old started looking

(06:43):
for some sort of attention and validation from men because
Daddy didn't give it to me. Oh tales, old time,
am I right? Oh? Dad issues. So we're going to
take a quick break and when we get back, we'll
talk more about all of this. Okay, we're back, We're back.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
We were totally jumping around. So from the beginning, Christine
was like, she's an adult, she's crazy, she has pubic hair.
Hearing this, you were like, Okay, there's some validity behind this,
because we didn't know that Christine was horribly abusing her.
Christine would make her stand against the wall and she
would scream at her, tell me who you used to
live with, Tell me where you're from, tell me.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Who you are, Who are you? So it does seem
that Christine really believed that Natalia was an adult.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
But to the point where she would make her stand
there for eight hours and she soiled herself.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
Oh yeah, at least ten hours. I feel like they
quoted some numbers in the documentary that were longer. Plus
Natalia has a severe form of Dwarfism. We're standing and
walking and stuff. Aren't that fucking easy or comfortable? So
imagine me as an able bodied person standing up against
a fucking wall, just facing the wall for heavy hours

(07:55):
as somebody yells at me and I ship myself as
they interrogate me about who are you? When I've been
like I have told you a billion times.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
And then the brother admits that Christine the mother made
him go and pee on Natalia's bed.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh yeah, because Natalia had a habit of soiling furniture
and stuff, which they looked at as malicious, her being malicious.
But also, if we're going to look at Natalia as
a traumatized child, I think the Ukrainian adoption agency pulled
some sketchy shit and wrote her birthday a few years
younger than she was, because a child who is four

(08:34):
is more attracted than a seven year old because they've
been through less trauma and you know, they're littler cut whatever.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
But she was not twelve years older.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
She was not twelve or fucking fourteen years older than
they claimed. I believe she was a few years older.
So I think if they got her when she was
what six, I think she was probably about nine.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
But she'd already been to another family before them, right at.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Least one, and she had been in a fucking Ukrainian orphanage.
Who knows what goes down there. I'm not saying anything
against Ukraine. I'm just saying orphanages, foster homes, the fucking
child quote unquote care system does not have a great
reputation for these children being properly cared for and frankly
not a beauties.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Christine was pushing hard for the fact that she was
an adult. She's an adult. She's an adult. Now, there
was bone scans that showed she was a child, but
Christine took her to I think it was their family doctor,
and when they'd had her for four years, the doctor said, well,
she hasn't grown in four years, and generally you stop
growing at eighteen, therefore she's twenty two. That was their logic. Personally,

(09:43):
I stopped growing at about twelve, maybe thirteen, So the
fact that they said eighteen is insane. And also it
might be different for little people, right.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Right, So they had had her for four years, so
she would have been ten, she would have likely been
actually thirteen or four Tina at this time, but they
had her age legally changed to twenty two, which is
fucking mind blowing, dude, Like, who does that?

Speaker 2 (10:11):
How is that law?

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Judge allows that?

Speaker 2 (10:13):
And then because now she's twenty two, and this is
at the point where the Sun had been accepted to
a university in Canada and they were going to move.
So they're like, you're twenty two. You have to move
out on your own really quick.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
I don't know if we made it super clear that
the mom was like, so, Jacob, Natalia is an evil
adult and she peas everywhere. So what you need to
do now? And Natalia wasn't in the bed, but she
goes you need to go stand on top of Natalia's
bed and pee all over it. During the time of
the interview, he was like, well, now I feel really bad,
but at the time I was convinced that she was right,

(10:46):
not who we thought she was and whatever. So the
humiliation and torture that they put Natalia through, and then
they also admit that the whole fucking family beat her.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, shows how Christine beat her. And he's, you know,
his theatrics where he's pummeling the ground.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Oh my god, he's pummeling the ground, and then he
stops and he goes, oh oh.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
But then also the one thing was when the brother
left his microphone on and he didn't realize they were
still recording, and he went upstairs and he what did
he say something about I didn't tell them about when
we threw her down the stairs.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
They didn't actually say threw down the stairs but they said, yeah,
we agreed, like we're not going to talk about the
stairs thing.

Speaker 2 (11:27):
Right or her balling down the stairs.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Or yeah, something like that. So Michael says, I would
come home and I would see Christine beating Natalia, and
then she would make me do it to Natalia too,
and I was afraid of Christine. I could stand up
to this woman today, but back then, Yeah, I'm sorry,
but I couldn't. I couldn't stand after her. She abused me,

(11:50):
she abused Italia, she abused us.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
Oh that was actually really accurate. That was an accurate depiction.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
That actually could have come from the documentary.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Can I submit that acting to some sort of a ward?
That was beautiful? Kind out of so proud of you.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
Kind of got my associates degree in film acting and
voice foremants no bigs before I went to and got
my bachelor's for padacasting. So I try to combine those stuffs. Listen,
I understand that there are relationships where the woman is
the abuser, and that even when it's a man or
a woman getting abused, that they're afraid to stand up

(12:28):
to their partner and they'll kind of go along with
what's going on. I understand that that happens. I don't
know though, that you could fucking tell me to abuse
a little person and that I would got to do it.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
You got, you just gotta.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
She told me to, so I had to.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
So she was horribly abused. They've reaged her, the family's
moving away. They get her in an apartment.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Let's not skip the part which is kind of the
one thing that gives me some pause. She goes and
stays at a psychiatric facility for a good amount of time,
and they move her from the children's wing to the
adult wing because they said that she was acting like
an adult. And remember they said, oh, she was really

(13:10):
sexual with the men, And I was like, okay, well,
if you guys knew anything, you might understand that that
might be from being sexually abused herself. But also in
the hospital, she fucking told the staff she wanted to
hurt the family.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
She corroborated though she's being horribly abused.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
They thought she was evil.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Remember if it was this happy, amazing family and they're
giving her love and support and she's like, I want
them dead. Okay, but let's look at that as she's
being horribly physically mentally abused. Tortured and she's saying I
want them dead.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Yeah. Also, they say that she was storing kitchen knives
under her bed, maybe because she felt the need to
protect her dead. They said that they woke up in
the middle of the night with her standing there with
a kitchen knife and they're like, Natalia, what are you doing?
And she was like, I don't know. And this could
absolutely be the behavior of a child who like literally

(14:03):
can feel that they're not safe. And if Natalia was
saying things like I want to kill the Barnets and
I was trying to put the boys in danger and
I want them dead, I would say that you have
some psychological issues. I do believe that as a product
of Natalia being sexually, mentally, and physically abused throughout her

(14:24):
entire childhood, that she has developed certain habits and certain feelings.
I know, as somebody who is abused as a child,
that hasn't shown up as sadness or whatever. It's showed
up as pure, unadulterated rage on just absolute fucking rage

(14:44):
that people are like, where did that come from? And
I'm like, I don't even know. Until I did a
lot of therapy and I was like, oh, that's a
defense mechanism traumas.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
But also Christine could be saying you want to kill us.
We know you want to kill us as she's beating.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Her and coaching her what to say people, because she
coached her.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
When people are like how old do you and she's like,
I'm twenty two, she would tell people that because that's
what she'd been told.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
So Christina Michael adopted Italia in the spring of twenty ten,
and by July twenty thirteen, they were moving her into
her own apartment in Westfield, Indiana. Okay, this whole situation
is what makes me know she was a child. Ah,
I know what you're gonna say, and I totally agree.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Oh well, there's multiple things. The first thing that got
me is the video footage of her playing on a
little run bike with a like three year old and
so one of the neighbors was like, oh, yeah, she
was super obsessed with my son and she always wanted
to come over and play with him. And when you
watch her on that little bike playing and laughing and saying, hey,
can you push me, that is not a twenty two
year old woman. That is a child playing with another child.

(15:45):
There is no way you can tell me that is
an adult. If she was an adult, why would she
want to play on a little bike with a kid
and laugh and then come over and ask if she
could play with their son. Oh, there's so many more. Okay,
we're going to take a break when we come back.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
Okay, we're back. So that's the first thing. The second
thing is the documentary does a good job keeping you wondering,
because it's saying things that could point toward Natalia being
an adult, and then things being creepy, and then things
that point towards her being a kid. So basically, the
neighbors said that they hated having Natalia live in their
neighborhood because she would constantly just be sitting on their

(16:25):
doorsteps waiting for them to come home. She would wander
into their house and take food, and they were just like,
oh my god, she's evil. And she told her neighbors too,
because that's what she had been a coached, that she
was twenty two and that she got sent to live
by herself because she tried to kill her parents. So
everybody was like, Okay, so this person is terrifying and

(16:48):
they were all scared of her. But then when you
look at the behaviors that she was doing. They're those
of a child who is alone and hungry and lonely.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Probably scared the building manager saying, oh, she would come
into my office to sit and eat candy because I
had a candy dish. You know who does that? Children?

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Well, no, the building manager, Actually I want to give
from the credit because she did say you know who
does that? Kids? She was like, she acted like a
little kid. She would come into my office and sit
there and eat candy. That's what little kids do.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
So then they were talking about how she was acting
inappropriate sexually with some of the children. She was trying
to touch the children, she was trying to undo their belts,
she was rolling around with them. But also there was
an older gentleman who would bring her into his apartment
and they would spend time together. That's when she told
people she used to be a sex worker. Christine said
she had blood and around he our shad period blood.

(17:40):
But then in the recent update they'd said she'd never
had her period before. Do you know what else causes
blood in the underwear of a child?

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Sexual abuse? Yeah, And then the neighbors said that Natalia
was constantly wearing the same clothes that she smelled really bad.
She wasn't showering, so they're like, oh, this chick has
mental problems. No, she's a child with severe physical disabilities
who can't do this shit for herself.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
There is a video Michael took of him going to
her house and he looks in her cupboards and he
sees that she has donuts, and he's like, where did
you get these donuts from? And she was like ah,
and you can see she's scared and she's like, I
found them when I was cleaning up, but they're still good.
And he's like, these are fresh donuts. Where did you
get them from? And finally it came out that one
of the neighbors gave them to her. I'm sorry if
that's an adult. If you think she's an adult and

(18:30):
she's living on her own, why would it matter if
she had something in her coover all?

Speaker 1 (18:34):
So, why are you filming this interaction where you definitely
seem like the fucking bad guy. It's like they were
definitely filming stuff to try to be like, oh, look,
to get evidence that she was evil. But in this video,
it's Michael who looks terrible because he's giving her the
third fucking degree about where she got some donuts, and
she looks afraid to tell him. So basically, all these

(18:56):
neighbors hate having Talia around. So she gets evicted and
Christine says, okay, well, then we're gonna move her to Lafayette,
Indiana because it's a white trash town where nobody will
notice her.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
So they moved this small person with physical disabilities to
a second floor apartment in the middle of a really dangerous,
really dangerous part of town, far away from anyone she knows.
And then what do they do to her cell phone?
They take her cell phone and they wipe her contacts.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
So she can't get in contact with her social service
worker or anybody that she's ever met. She's completely alone.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
So then around this point in the documentary, they talk
about finding her birth mother.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Right, and then it's weird because her birth mother says
something that's really odd, and she goes, God had been
dealing with this shiit for like seventeen years already. But
I guess at this point Natalia could have been about that.
I think she's sixteen.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
She's sixteen now.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Okay, okay, and yeah, the mother fully admits, yes, I
had Natalia They told me that I was a young mother,
I would have other kids, and Italia would be too
hard to because.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
She would need multiple surgeries and she couldn't afford the surgeries.
And they said if she was adopted, she'll be able
to have the surgeries. The mother wanted to.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Keep her, but she thought she had a better chance
of having a better life where she could afford proper
medical care, good Old America.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
So they DNA tested. This is one hundred percent her mother.
If Natalia would have been the age they said she
was her corrected age, the mother would have had her
when she was ten years old, but that was not
the case. The mother I think she was nineteen or twenty.
That was the math she was home. My yeah, I
age appropriate. So if Natalia would have been ten years
older than she was or whatever the age they said, yeah,

(20:36):
the mother would have had her when she was ten,
which didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
No. Also, Michael admits that he thinks she was around
twenty or twenty two in twenty nineteen, which means that
she would have been fourteen to sixteen when they moved, which.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Is still a child. So Michael admitted that to a
police officer, which is why he got charged with child abandonment.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
Wait, hold on, he admitted was She admitted that he.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
Believes Natalia was now twenty to twenty two, meaning she
was fourteen to sixteen when they put her in her
own apartment.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Oh, like, he thinks currently she's twenty to twenty two.
Because the cop totally did the like, hey buddy, i'm
your friend. I can tell that your wife has totally
just set you up here. So Michael's like, oh yeah,
and tries to be all cool with him and ends
up admitting that he knows that he dropped off a
physically disabled child to rot in a quote white trash

(21:30):
neighborhood where no one would notice her.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
If you look at the videos and the images of
her when they dropped her off versus her now, she
was a child, she has aged, she looks older, she
looks age appropriate.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Now.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
She was a child, she was an abused child they
dropped off. So then what happened is they signed her
up for this adult school and she would walk through
the neighborhood by herself. She would say, I'm going to school,
but it was like, oh, it breaks my heart.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
This was a child.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
So then that's where she met her new mother, her
new adopted mother.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Who she's still with. She's still with this family. Basically,
this woman, Cynthia Cynthia Mans sees her and is like,
what is there? Why is there a child wandering through
this neighborhood? I would never go through by myself. I
believe she.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Was the one that says she has licensed to cary concealed.
She cares a gun on her when she goes through
that neighborhood as a fully able bodied woman, and then
she sees this tiny little person which she believes to
be a child, walking by herself in this neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Right, So she's like, you're coming to my house. I'm
going to give you a sandwich, and we're going to
figure out what the fuck is going on here. Natalia
still lives with her new adoptive parents, Cynthia and Anchoin
Man's in Crawfordsville, Indiana. There had been kind of like
a big gag order on everybody up until recently. So
the man's family is now actually able to come out

(22:51):
and discuss everything.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
So Michael says, how he found out was that her
social Security checks were no longer being delivered to him.
They were now transferred into this woman Cynthia's name, and
he was so angry. And then he found out Natalia
was sub letting her apartment, which is against the least
they signed, and he was angry about these. He was
angry that she was living with this new family. I'm sorry,

(23:14):
if she's an adult woman, wouldn't you be happy she
met roommates?

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah, why do you care? Maybe because you're hiding a
bunch of shit. Well, I think that kind of brings
us to the end, right.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Well, I saw an interview with her on Doctor Phil
and how old? Doctor Phil said how old are you?
And I think she said, what thirty two? And he said,
but what age do you think you are? And she's like,
I'm seventeen or whatever it was whatever, nineteen, And yeah,
she looks like a teenager early twenties. If you look
at the pictures before she looked like a child. She's

(23:44):
not thirty three years old or whatever. No, And I
think Michael knows this is all true, and that's why
he's doing the documentaries to try to get support and
try to get sympathy. And everything is Christine's fault. And
I didn't do anything, and she to orchard us because
he knows, he knows what they did.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
To that child. Yeah, and I mean I do think
that Christine was more the mastermind and Michael was super
fucking pussy whipped and would do anything she said. To
put it bluntly, so Michael was charged with child abandonment.
He didn't spend any time in prison though for it did.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
He Michael Barnett was actually found not guilty of child neglect,
and Christine's charges of neglect were dismissed because they couldn't
mention her age.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
They couldn't mention her age in the trial.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
They were not allowed to discuss her age.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
They weren't allowed to say these people abandoned a child.
They had to prove that they abandoned a person with
a lot of needs that they had taken responsibility for.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
But Tippekanoo County Prosecutor Pat Harrington dismissed all eight counts
citing insufficient evidence. That's from an article by the Exponent.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
So now, after our discussion and watching the documentary, what
do you think?

Speaker 1 (25:00):
What are your thoughts? A highly recommend the documentary. I
think we broke it down pretty good, but you got
to see these theatrics Michael puts on White a fucking show,
and I think the videos of Natalia throughout time are
definitely worth mentioning. Also the whole thing where she, you know,
tried to like quote electrocue Christine at the farm. The
staff members said that it definitely seemed like it was

(25:24):
the adult woman who was in hysterics and acting strange.
They were like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Also those fences, I know because I live in like
a rural property and photograph on farms all the time.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
It's not like.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
Jurassic Park where you touch them and you get thrown backwards.
It's a little zap. It's like licking a battery globles.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
And Christine's like, she's tried to kill me.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
She tried to kill me into the fence. And then
they also interview a little person couple who wanted to
adopt Natalia but weren't able to, and they were saying,
there is no way Natalia would have any of the
strength to pull Christine anywhere.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Although we did see Natalia pull in subtrash can.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
She did so, so she had some but maybe not
enough to murder an able bodied adult woman via.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
A small electric fund.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
That's fucked up.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
This is my friend Schanta Pitts.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
Hi, Shana, Hey, how's it going. It's really good to
see you again.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
You too. This is our first time being face to
face since we were face to face in person.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
Literally face to face.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, we met at the I got out story jam.
It was super cool. You told your story and I've.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Meant to it all in five minutes. I told my
story beat.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
That you did great, and yeah it was. It was
really awesome. And would you mind sharing with our lovely
audience a little bit about who you are?

Speaker 4 (26:53):
I would love to. Hey everyone, I'm Shante. I grew
up in a cult.

Speaker 3 (26:59):
Yay.

Speaker 4 (26:59):
I get to in the hashtag colties' so it's so fun.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Is that a trending cult or is that a trending hashtag?

Speaker 3 (27:05):
I feel like it should be. If it isn't, so,
oh yeah, let's get it the coldes hashtags. Oh my gosh,
that's such a I'm making T shirts now you are
doing You're making hashtags.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
You're making pop culture history right now.

Speaker 4 (27:19):
Oh my goodness. So yeah, I grew up in a cult.
It was a religious cult. I spent I was born
into it, spent my whole life in it, went through
a few lovely like I don't know, eating disorders and
things like that, some cutting and some really just deep
dark places, and then came again, went through a really
abusive relationship that was like a counselor. Sure we'll call

(27:43):
him that counselor. And then uh, finally, you know, broke free,
got educated. I had like an eighth grade education and
became a teacher. Rocked the hell out of that. Yeah.
I'm not even going to pretend that I'm not good
at it, because I do know that.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
I okay, like this should brag about.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
But I'm like my dad says, is it bragging if
it's just factual?

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, I'm as true. I like that.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 4 (28:08):
I really don't. Oh yeah, it says, don't. I don't
sugarcoat shit. I'm not Willy Wonka.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Yes, super pups in the house.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
I know, I love it. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
So I broke free from my eighth grade education to
a master's degree. Is where I am now in STEM education.
So I do science technology enjoying a math.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
I'm a nerd. One oh one. Uh yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
So I really really really love like helping others, helping
people understand that, like your potential is not boxed in
by other people. Your potential is not boxed in by
your environment. You really can become whatever it is that
you want to be. And I I didn't have any math.
My math level was a sixth grade.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
So like it's like, listen, if it's what you need
to bake, so fractions.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
I just love that you already know that's what it was.
Can you cook?

Speaker 4 (29:00):
Can you clean? And also can you make babies? Then
you're gonna go later take it, make a baby. That's
basically the phrase.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Thing vagina check, I vacuumed, check.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Daily chores.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Now, I guess I gotta put a quarter cup of
flower into this and I better who better know how?
Because it doesn't fucking say and And I think it
was funny too because the would probably make the argument
like you don't even need to know that because it
literally says a quarter cup, right.

Speaker 4 (29:26):
And reading is like optional you should know to read
enough that you understand the Bible, of course, but oh yeah,
like you don't need to be like some literary nerd nerd. Okay,
let's say in this.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Box here, listen, schante, I don't necessarily disagree with the
math thing, okay, Okay, Like I think it should be
optional after division and multiplication, because okay, I just I
like I have a calculator. I think it's like boys
shouldn't have to do it too. It shouldn't be like, oh, well, men,

(29:58):
you better get your math because you have to do
important manly math stuff. Like it's just everybody measurement.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
I know, I'm just.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Saying, but I love I love that journey. I love
that journey.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
I love that you. I knew you were going to
say that. Oh my god, I knew you're gonna say that.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
You've listened to the podcast.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
You know I was here we go, Here we go.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
It's fine, my Shenanigans.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
Not only though that, y'all, did I break out of
a cold and you know, deal with all the didn't
get married, y'all. Didn't have to get married because I
was a problem twenty four to seven.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
And that's because I'm a lesbian, y'all.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
So it really worked out for me, okay, because I,
you know, didn't want to get married to a man.
So if you just act undesirable to these Christian men.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
You are safe.

Speaker 4 (30:44):
That is the that's you're You're welcome, y'all, and see
good night, have a good night.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah bye, that's that's all for me. Did you purposely
do things to try to ward off attention for men?

Speaker 3 (30:55):
Absolutely I did.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
We're talking goth one oh one, because I'm gonna tell
you right now, that's one thing Christian colts.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
Don't like that soth.

Speaker 4 (31:02):
Look, I had those like high socks with like the
big bows on them, like the blow.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
I was definitely worshiping the devil on the side.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Oh I was. Now, I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the devil my soul to keep.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah, it's called rebellion. Listen. Okay, you were pushed there. Well,
obviously you're just killing the game now. And you said
you have like supportive parents, right, which is super awesome.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
All of my siblings got out on my parents. So
I mean, I'm one of the very few I feel
like people I know that have their whole family out
with them.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, that's awesome. Congratulations. Literally math and science and engineering
and whatever the TEA stands for technology.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Yeah, no, I'm a very big.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
My jam and so I think that's really cool. Like yep,
like I really do. Actually, I know I said it
all like that for you, but I do.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
Yeah, I can handle it either way, because I tae
eighth grader's girl, there's really nothing you can say to
me that's gonna hurt my feelings or bother me.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
I don't like to be around kids and said they're mean.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
Dude, they are.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
They're mean to each other're not lying. The people is
the teachers and you know everyone. I'd be like, listen,
you little fuck with like I wouldn't be able to
deal with it, and then I'd get fired.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
So I literally one time did say to one, I
need to get your shit, tack it up and get
on out of here, listen, and they were like, and
I was like, I'm sorry, I just we just have
to get to the point. At this point, I feel
like I've said it in every other way. We just
were ready, and literally she packed up and said, don't worry,
I'm not going to say anything about that.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
And I was like, you can tell whoever you need
to tell me. I don't care.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
So but like thanks whatever, like we're having.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Them, but also yeah, thanks for being cool.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Are we having a moment now because a moment? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (32:53):
I mean she loved me after that, so listen.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Sometimes you just have to swear at kids to get
them to like you.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
And they're like, whoa, she's cool. Yeah I am. Yeah,
it's true.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
Well, today I want to teach you about The Curious
Case of Natalia Grace.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
I cannot wait.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
So, as you know, it's a two season, twelve episode series.
We are not we are not going over the first
season because no, and it's it's pretty old at this point.

Speaker 4 (33:28):
But I have a couple of problems with it, not
with the like, but just the concept of like what
you've learned later after that you're like, yeah, that's what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, although I was you're still like a tiny bit
not sure after the first season, but you're like pretty sure.
But in the second season, it's very it's very clear.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
And you kind of get mad at some of the
things that were said in the previous one, and then
people are talking differently in the next one.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
It's like, who are you? How is this going?

Speaker 1 (33:56):
You know what? I didn't rewatch the first season before
I watched this one, So I know you watched the
first season pretty recently, right too? Get ready yeah for this?
Did you watch episodes one and two or are you
just like the new one ready to rock?

Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, babe, I've watched both seasons.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Full, You're like everything, Okay, I know it.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Now, just kidding. I really sound like a narcissistic jackass.
That is not what I was not. I just know
what I was meaning. I promise I'm not narcissistic.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
You guys, I've heard a lot of narcissistic jackasses and
you're not loud of them.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
Oh thanks, I want to get that in like a
certificate if you don't mind.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Sure, Yeah, okay, put that up for you gold star.
All right, so really quick, Actually, if you are unfamiliar
with what happened in the first season or Natalia Grace's
story in general, I did cover her story in an
episode where I was actually very very unsure because no
documentary had come out yet. So when I first covered

(34:55):
her story, I was like, man, I really don't know.
And then when the documentary came out, I did an
update because like I was like ninety percent sure I
know now, but now I'm one hundred and ten percent sure.
So anyways, there is an episode out that came out
yesterday that is the original episode plus the update if

(35:15):
you want to go listen to that first to get
all caught up to where we are today. So we
start off in Tippy Canoe, But you're from Lafayette.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
Which is it that is Tippy Cane. No, it's actually
it's tip a Canoe and Tippecanoe County is where Lafayette
is located. And I am from this town.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
I didn't even know that. That's funny that you thought, Oh,
maybe she asked me because of that, But I had
no idea.

Speaker 4 (35:43):
I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited because
this is my town. Like I didn't grow up here
at y'all, but I do live. I relocated here, and
I'm like, I'm living in the town at all.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
This in the room where it.

Speaker 4 (35:52):
Happened, kid, I have been on the steps of the
courthouse because I live in the.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Town and you you were at court getting no let.

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Me clarify, Oh, let me clarify. I was like, you know,
touring the town, guys, okay, can see you Okay, beautifully
perfect I am.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
I mean, I don't you look like you could be
getting up to some shenanigans.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
You know, trust and believe, I have zero hesitation. If
I need to, I'll let you know that.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
I love shenanigans.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
I mean, you have to show that you're not one
to be fucked with.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
You have to fuck around and find out. That's one
of my favorite.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
Literally the title of my life, fuck around and find out.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
I walk around and find out, and that's so fucked up.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
You find them, and I always say, I wish the
fuck you would.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Find it out of Barnes and Nobles near you soon.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
I wish the fuck you would.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yeah, put that on a shirt. Okay. So we are
starting in Typicanoo County, Lafayette, Indiana, and Natalia Grace is
going to an adult learning center there and they're pretty
suspect because they're like, this does not just like see
like an adult. So they call the sheriff's office, and

(37:05):
Sheriff Robert Goldsmith says that a lot of law enforcement
officers have a defining moment in their career or a
defining case, and that this was it for him. So
we go back to September twenty fourteen and the adult
learning center that she was going to was called Excel Center,

(37:25):
and they called the sheriff. They said, it's really weird
because her ID says that she's twenty two or twenty five, Like,
I guess they couldn't even really verify. I don't know,
I mean which one which what is two? Was twenty two?
Why did I write twenty two or twenty five?

Speaker 3 (37:41):
Did they change it later?

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Maybe? I don't know.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
I mean, there were so many things that are kind
of like, wait, some people were saying differently because of her,
like something I can't remember what.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Dude, Okay, And here's where, like you know, some basic
subtraction and addition came in that I did later because
I did some math. What I know, I did like
a little little bit because I was like this, I
gotta I gotta get back to the sentence that I
was in the middle of saying, Ashley, come on.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Okay, focus dude.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
They were like, she looks twenty two or twenty five,
twenty two like you said, or her idea says that.
But they said that her mental age seems like she's
maybe eleven. So Sheriff Goldsmith interviews Natalia and asks her
if she thought she was twenty five, and she says no.
So now we talk to Lieutenant Detective Travis Dowell, and

(38:34):
he says that in all his interactions with Natalia, just
observing and just observing her, she always acted like a child,
and if she was putting on a charade. She never
broke character. Bob asked her if she'd been abused, and
she closed up. And keep in mind that for anybody

(38:56):
who is not aware her a optive parents reaged her
legally so that she was and I have this in
my notes later, but like eight or nine years older
than she actually was. It's crazy. So he's asking, you know,
like a child, if she's been abused, and she kind

(39:17):
of clams up. And he didn't want to pry because
he said, usually with a child who's been abused, it's
better to let them open up when they're ready. So
he wasn't sure which kind of abuse she endured, although
as far as I'm aware of, there was no sexual abuse,

(39:37):
thank god, because every other kind was at the fighting table.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
I mean, I think there were some things though, maybe
that happened pret adoptive though. Because of the things that
they were saying that she in the first season, specifically,
like things they were saying that she was saying at
the doctor or whatever, it seemed like she was highly
sexualized of some sort remor It's true, Oh yeah, people,
And I don't think that's not normal for a child

(40:03):
unless something has happened to them.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
They they learn it. Yeah, they've been exposed to something
that they shouldn't have been.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:11):
No one has specifically said that she has been sexually No,
you're correct in that, But I'm just saying, based on
some things.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
That are evident throughout the whole entire thing, it's.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Like, at least at least I don't think she was
abused in that way by the cops. No, that's the
Sophia just said, cops on the a cop with trauma
training for once in one of those stories.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I did know it immediately,
like whoa, Okay, that's awesome. Yeah. And in Indiana nonetheless, Well.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
So he didn't want to pry. And as far as
we know, nothing of that sort did happen with the Barnetts.
But we know that they medically abused her physically.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Emotionally, psychologically.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Check check check check check all the.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Checks, all the checks like torture, abandoned, neglect. I mean,
I've had kind of like put up a wall for this.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
There's way it's too much.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
So much, it's and it's like with the Gypsy story,
it's like how does this keep getting worse?

Speaker 4 (41:18):
Like what is he because to me, like that kind
of abuse is like just disgusting, like revolting to me.
But then also to know that someone was sitting there
watching it happen and not doing anything, that's a problem
for me in always obviously, but like, yeah, these.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
People knew she was a child and they were abusing
her and lying to everybody saying that she was an
adult so that they could fuck off and do it.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
And the thing is, I don't know if you've felt
that way, but throughout whenever you're hearing them say, oh,
we think she's an adult, and you're questioning yourself if
she is or isn't, you start to look and start
to see things that are like, well, maybe she is
an adult, even though I know, damn well that is
not an adult.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
But the more they would say it, the more I'd
be like, well, yeah, I'm like I can imagine everybody
around being like oh, yeah, I mean it's okay. Now.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
I remember the first like half of the season, they're
giving evidence making you super confused, being like maybe she
is an adult and she was acting super creepy and
being weirdly inappropriate with the neighbor kids. And then later
you're like, oh, or it seems like she was probably
a kid and she was playing with the neighbor kids,
because she's a fucking kid. By the way, a lot

(42:26):
of you that I'm sober.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
This is.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
This is like some like sparkling mint mohido mocktail shit
that my boyfriend got for me for New Year's Eves
because I like to have fun, fancy drinks too. So
in case anybody was like, what the fuck, Ashley, are
you just casually relapsing in front of us?

Speaker 3 (42:47):
All right?

Speaker 1 (42:47):
And he's like, that's a no, you guys, but thanks
for your concern if you were feeling it.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
H Yeah, I uh, I am not drinking. I'm not knocking.
I am not not that's where going.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Oh good for you. I mean it's like seven thirty there,
get your fucking you should be having a drink. I
just shouldn't. That's just that's a hashtag Ashley fact. As
our favorite Peggy likes to say.

Speaker 4 (43:13):
We all have our things, girl, we all have our things.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, and we are going to get and we're going
to get to how they legally.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
Raged her, because this is mind blowing.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
In a smidgeon. Yeah, it's that is so fucked up.
It's like the epitome of all of it. Yeah, so
Bob asks, No, Bob believes that Natalia feels safety and
love today, but that justice has not been served, which
it fucked has.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
No absolutely, And what do we have for you, Johnny, Like,
come on.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Obviously, well an Oscar winning performance for one. Let's let's
say that. Bra Ba Wow you guys. I aught to
encourage you to go watch the first Oh my gosh,
Peggy Peggy p if you just entered the room where
it has that is so wild because they literally just
mentioned you. I said, that's a hashtag Ashley fact. I

(44:11):
don't remember what it was now. That's so fucked. I
don't know. I have no idea.

Speaker 4 (44:15):
She was talking about the fact that you were drinking
non alcoholic. This is not alcoholic and you were saying,
that's a no for Ashley, and then you said.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Hashtag and yeah, like that, I'm a person who shouldn't
drink and that's a that's a hashtag Ashley fact.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
That's exactly what you said.

Speaker 1 (44:32):
Yeah, there we go.

Speaker 3 (44:33):
There, I got you, girl.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Thank you, Because I don't know where I am half
the time. I'm scared for old age. I'm not even
fucking around Okay. Uh So we see Michael Barnett, who
is a highly unstable man, and he thinks, I think
methinks he believes that he's putting on a really good show.

Speaker 3 (44:56):
Good show, good show.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
I don't know what the fuck that acts that was.
It was like half left have hello.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
It wasn't an accent that I probably think someone would
ask you to do in a movie.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
For me, heavy content, so I have to like just
make it less so occasionally. So if you guys don't
watch the first season, I would at least go maybe
find a clip on YouTube or something of Michael demonstrating
how Christine would beat Natalia. First of all, you're sitting

(45:30):
there watching somebody beat.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Like That's what I'm talking about, right, That's where I'm like, go.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
That's a different kind of psychotic when you can sit
there and watch a child be tortured and abused and
because he gets on the he gets on the fucking floor,
you guys, and he's like this is this is like
how hard Christine would hit Natalia like, and he's a
grown man on the fucking ground.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
Literally.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
One of the thing he hasn't to this ACTA.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
Said, get one of the camera guys, to turn the
camera down to the floor, like he literally wanted them
to turn the camera And then after he did that,
he was going, oh that hurt.

Speaker 3 (46:09):
I was like, are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Right now? I was like, this is that what we're doing?
Are you trying to gain sympathy for you? Right now
because you had to witness that? Yeah, And the fact
st I understand that in you know, and he claims
that Christine was extremely abusive, and mental and emotional abuse
are real things, and people who are abused are fucking

(46:31):
victims too, and they can't always speak up in these
kinds of situations. So like, I do want to make
that kind of caveat. But also the way that Michael
has tried to completely shirk responsibility actually and has continued
to lie makes me say, okay, whatever, fuck all that,
fuck him, fuck.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Him all the way, all right, the way the way
I yeah, my.

Speaker 4 (46:54):
Thing is with him, It's like, Okay, I am never
going to say that he isn't a victim, because obviously,
like he might be a victim.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
I don't want to assume that, right, Christine.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Does seem like next level fucking mastermind.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
Yeah, And but my thing is he is the epitome
of what I think of when I think of playing
the victim that some people like to use for actual victims.
I'm like, this is what Hello everyone, this is what
it looks like. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
He says something to Natalia about we had the we
both had the same monster.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:27):
That, Oh my, I had to pause the I was like,
I paused it. I was like, I can't, I cannot
go forward.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
I am chewing the microphone. I would have fucking hit
that man.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
When I oh, oh, when I think my mouth just
dropped open. I was like, did he just say the fuck?

Speaker 1 (47:44):
That was a crazy meeting. Okay, we'll get to that.
We will get to that. Okay. So we're in March
of twenty twenty three, where seeing Michael Barnett at his
court deposition. He says that he didn't believe Natalia was
a child because she told everyone she was an adult,
which is a fucking lie. She told everybody she was

(48:05):
an adult because that's what Christine and Michael coached her
to do. So as recently as March of last year,
Michael was still being a dirty, stupid liar. So let's
make that clear.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
I don't think he has stopped being that.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
No, he's He's always been and always will be a game.
It's a game to him, Natalia says. Now we're hearing
from Natalia. In an interview, she says that Christine trained
her to lie and that she's the real monster, but
that Michael's an accomplice because he went along with everything
Christine said and she was terrified of Christine. And as

(48:42):
somebody who had one parent who was abusive and another
one who was just like neglectful and abandoning, I was
actually way more angry at the parent who left me
with the shit parent for a long time. I was like, dude,
you knew what you were leaving me with and you did,

(49:06):
like and so he didn't actually like you know, abuse
me in the same capacity, I guess, but like I
just so it stings me, I guess, like on a
personal level where it's like, dude, you're just as fucking
shitty if you don't do anything, and.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
You could that's the thing about any of that stuff,
Like he could have done something.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah he was not could have reported your fucking wife.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Oh exactly.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
She has a magic vagina and chocolate comes out of
her titties. Like literally he talks about her like she's
like an addiction and she used her sexual prosed but
he rolled him.

Speaker 4 (49:42):
Yeah, And it's like he literally says stuff like, oh, well,
like she tells other people how hot she is, and
it's like he's just believing that.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
That's the level of hot she is.

Speaker 4 (49:51):
And I'm not saying like that she's not pretty or whatever,
but it's like I am I wanted to, Okay, thank you,
I wanted to, but I'm like.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Look, if she it wasn't like I mean, a's bitch,
I wouldn't say that out loud, but she's evil.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
And and like you telling everyone how hot you are,
your husband thinks that this you're just some magical angel.
It's like how no, yeah, no, no, sorry, no just no.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
A no yeah. And so Natalia, I'm just imagining this
fucking child looking over as her mom putting that in
air quotes, is beating her, and her dad is just
watching this fucking happen. It's just that makes me want
to punch his nuts.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Yea so hard. Oh, let's just castrate him all together.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Okay, you said a girl, I'm into it so period.
Christine once told her, I'm going to show you what
it's going to feel like if you do something wrong.
And this was after nine year old Ish eight seven.
Natalia couldn't do a physics problem or paper. They said paper,

(51:00):
and I didn't understood what that pen. I was like,
is it physics like math? What do you?

Speaker 3 (51:04):
Well?

Speaker 4 (51:05):
Yeah, sure it could be it could it could be
a paper like a process.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
So she was trying to make her do physics essentially whatever.
We'll leave it at that for Yeah, that sounds great.
And Natalia's like, yeah, I'm a child without an education,
so I can't do this.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
Like huh.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
And Christine's response was to tell Natalia to stand there
with her eyes open you guys, trigger warning for like
heinous child abuse. Yeah. Then she pepper sprayed Natalia in
the eyes and made Natalia sit there for about ten
minutes before she could go wash it out. And she said, quote,

(51:44):
I'm just really hurt because she was supposed to be
my mom, but she didn't act like a mom to me. Unquote.
I have so many emotional walls up right now. I
went to therapy yesterday. I don't even cry, which is
wild because I cry like every day. But I was
just like, I don't have time for this week, Like
I don't.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
I have too many other like people's trauma to deal
with this week. Okay, so what's happened was Thailand my therapist?
So cool, She just like goes to Thailand when she
feels like it and like therapizes me from there. Anyways. Yeah,
so Beth Carris, a legal expert, says that Christine is

(52:24):
planning on trying to break down Italia and control everything
she said, which she did. So the abuse against Natalia
didn't start immediately like abuse she generally does. It rarely
comes just right out of the gate, very rarely, So
it didn't start immediately. But the Barnets, Christine and Michael

(52:45):
Barnett's let me say that again, so the well, it
never does, right, But the Barnet's attempt to control the
narrative did start from the beginning. They were like, this
is a story that we're going to they and Natalia
believes and I agree that Beth, not Beth, that Christine adopted.

(53:11):
That Christine adopted Natalia for how it would look. She
thought that she would have this child with a severe
She has a rare type of dwarfism that actually makes
it even more physically difficult for her to do things.
And their son was super duper gifted. I think what

(53:33):
he's on the spectrum?

Speaker 3 (53:34):
Yeah, and his IQ is ridiculously high.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
And Christine takes of course, she takes credit for that.
She's like, I trained him into the ideas. Yeah, it's like, no, bitch,
he's a genius mind his own Okay, Like, shut the
fuck up.

Speaker 4 (53:51):
And she took the money, she took it all, everything
about him she's taken from.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Yeah. No, she's the worst. So she thought, oh, this
will look really great. I'll just train her to be
a genius too, and then I'll look like this fucking
super mom who has kids with disabilities that are just
like geniuses.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
That is just so fucking weird.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
I'm so Gross's wrong with.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
You, bitch?

Speaker 1 (54:18):
All right? So now we're going back to an interview
with Michael Barnett from October twenty nineteen, and we're gonna
kind of we're gonna kind of go back in between.
We're going to kind of go back and forth in
between older interviews with Michael to kind of see like
inconsistencies and stuff that he said or lies that he's
continued to say. And then more current ones and interviews

(54:42):
with Natalia. So Michael says that in twenty ten, he
just felt like something wasn't right the adoption. Oh no gee, Michael.
He says the adoption agency wasn't sharing details because it
was a closed adoption. Said he got a phone call
from this secretary that said, I can't tell you where

(55:04):
she's from, but check her luggage closer because they felt
like something was wrong.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
So it really feels like a pirate treasure map situation.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
The secretary is check the luggage. I can't also where
you need a DVD. So Michael also says that in
her luggage he finds a tag for the Checkoons, but
he has never met the Chickos, He's stated for a

(55:38):
very long time. Natalia says, it's really weird. Pardon me,
do you have any gray pupon, Natalia said, it's really
weird that Michael says that, because they definitely did meet
the Chacoones at the adoption. The Checkoons were the first
family that adopted Natalia from the Ukraine. She was so

(55:58):
excited because she only known Ukrainian orphanage and her five
year old self was really excited about the big house
and her pute and her beautiful pink bedroom. Who the
fuck takes a little kid out of a goddamn Ukrainian orphanage?
Is like, oh here, here's like a little dream house
and dream room for you, princess. And then it doesn't

(56:21):
go well. Surprise, Ye, it does go well for a while,
until she says everything changed. She said that one day
she was playing with the little boy and she landed
on his arm wrong, she said. The dad came in
and started yelling at her, and she said, I hate
you because she's a fucking five year old who has

(56:44):
trauma from being in a goddamn orphanage for the first
what four or five years of her life whatever? Who
can fucking imagine? Right?

Speaker 4 (56:54):
And I hate you, I feel like was like her way,
almost like testing to see I did something wrong, and
I'm gonna say this, and now let's see if they
do what everybody else has always done to me, which
is fucking leave or fucking drop me off at the
next place.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Also, what kid hasn't said to their parents I hate
you when they're irritated that they got their fucking Nintendo
taken away or whatever, you know, Like that's true. Kids
just say that that's.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
A reactive response. Very typical reactive response, especially when you're
feeling like attacked.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
Yeah. Yeah, but apparently to Papa Chacone, this was like
the last thing ever. Yeah. So one day Mamma Chacone
comes in and says, I'm not going to be your
mom anymore, but I'll always love you. Children don't understand,
like it's like, Hi, I'm your new mommy. Actually I'm

(57:46):
not your mom anymore. It's like, yeah, what what a
fucking mind fuck is that, dude?

Speaker 3 (57:51):
And also, wait, a great way to show how much
you love her, right yes, walk for the next people.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
So we're gonna call him out, Jerry and Diane Chacone,
go fuck yourselves. They took Natalia to the Little People's
Association of America and a few families were interested in
adopting her, and Natalia said that she just felt like
during that time she just got passed around from family
to family and nothing worked out, and then something was

(58:20):
going to work out, but Christine's a cunt and it didn't.
So the Chracones took her to the adoption agency and
talked to Michael and Christine and the three boys, and
Natalia ran up to Michael to give him a hug
and called him daddy because like, just so sad she

(58:41):
doesn't know who her parents are obviously, like why would
she It's not been made clear whatsoever.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
And she keeps getting her hopes brought up for that,
like of course she's gonna.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Say that, uh, And Christine says, we're going to be
your family now, so she's like, oh, okay. And then
Natalia says, I think I trusted them too fast, and
I'm like, you were a fucking baby, dude.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
It broke my heart.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
I like, of course you trusted them. You what other
option do you have as a child not to trust
the people who are gonna take you and supposed to
take care of you, like like, actually a child's brought
A child's brain can't process that. It's so actually fun
psychology fact. Children then internalize that into thinking that something's

(59:29):
wrong with them, because it's way scarier to think that
something is wrong with their caregiver and like that they
might not be able to or might not want to
take good care of them. So kids will be like, Okay, well,
obviously it's my fault and it's I'm doing something bad.
And then I have a little bit of control because
maybe I can just do better and if I'm good enough,

(59:51):
they'll be nice and love me and stuff. None of
this this comes from experience.

Speaker 3 (59:58):
No, no, oh, no, my god.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
Okay, So now we meet Jackie Starbuck. From the time
they got in Italia, they kept saying, we don't know
how old she is. We think she's an adult. Multiple,
multiple medical professionals said she was a child. Do you
remember who Jackie Starbuck is? I didn't write, like, oh,
I just wrote their fucking name. I feel like that
was like an attorney or something.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
No, that was that the lady that was the Starbuck.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
It sounds like a fake name.

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
I know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:30):
I thought it was the lady that was talking about
her her opinion, Like she's.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
An attorney, she's the prosecutor or the defense. She is
one of those two.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
Those are pretty a lawyer.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
To figure out real quick.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Let's just stick the lawyers.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
She's a lawyer. Uh yeah, Jackie Starbuck a lawyer. Yeah,
we'll keep it thing because they don't have time for
research on the fly. Yeah, says that they didn't know
how old Natalia was because Natalia and the Barnetts were
saying that she was an adult. But but multiple medical

(01:01:08):
professionals that we will hear from were saying that Natalia
was a child. Michael lied about it being a closed
adoption and not meeting the Chacoons. There are and all
of this is just like now coming to light. There
are emails between the Barnetts and the Checkons, like, Michael,
you think she's going to disappear? Are you stupid?

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
I mean he really does seem like he's you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
Know, he's his really brightest ball. Yeah, just yeah, it's
a little dim It's yeah. There's emails between them. There
are contracts that have both of their signatures, and Michael
repeatedly says in interviews and documentaries that they adopted Natalia

(01:01:57):
through Shepherd Care, but he never mentioned this other adoption
agency involved Gateway Woods.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
That has his fucking signature on there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
I'm like, what Jackie Starbuck is. Jackie Starbuck is the
former deputy prosecutor of Tippy Canoe, typic Canoe. Just a
fy I, it's.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
Tip a canoe. That's remember, That's how I remember like Typic.
He did say that's how I remember it, though, it's
like tip a canoe.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
I like the sound of Tippy Canoe better. But okay,
I'll say sorry, no, no, it's okay.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
I mean I didn't you didn't name it, you know, no,
I didn't. They didn't ask me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
So Michael always weirdly leaves out this adoption agency that
not only has his signature on their forms, but this
adoption agency, as opposed to Shepherd Care that apparently is
not so thorough, actually included Natalia's medical records in their report.

(01:02:56):
So Michael and Christine they don't really want people to
see that report because it says that Natalia is a
fucking child.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
You know who didn't want to see that report. I
don't know the judge.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
But it's so sad, like Natalia finally getting it's. It's it's.
It has so many commonalities with Gypsy Rose in the
sense that they were both really medically abused, because Natalia
needed a lot of surgeries at really specific times and
ages in her growth because of the type of dwarfism

(01:03:32):
that she had, and Michael and Christine just fucking skipped
getting her those surgeries because they are fucking expensive.

Speaker 4 (01:03:41):
But that they had money too, I mean, I'm just saying,
I mean they did have money.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
They had fucking money, but I mean not money that
they wanted to spend on her to.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Get a child. They are with their money, they are
fucking understatement.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Natalia remembers going to Disney World after the adoption and
seeing the chicknes. She said, look, there's mom, and Christine
looked at her and snaps, I'm your mom now, and.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
Christine's literally Darth Vaders sound.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
Yeah, and Natalia's five and she's like, okay, that lady
was my mom yesterday.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
So sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Yeah. She said that she doesn't remember anything from this
alleged pubic pubic hair incident that Christine says was like
the catalyst to her thinking Natalia is an adult. She's like,
I go to bathe my newly adopted child and she
has a full fucking bush and it's like, no, you liar,
she did not. Natalia says that she did start noticing

(01:04:45):
some hair growing in at seven or eight, but some people,
fucking that's not people's bodies.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Difference, It's not weird. Yeah, yeah, like everybody's hormones work differently.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Yeah, happen different.

Speaker 3 (01:04:57):
We're not talking about a newborn baby like being born
with it. We're talking about a child that is being developed, right, Okay,
you an eight.

Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
Or nine year old might have it. Okay, congrats, that's
a normal fucking thing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
And she says seven or eight and pardon me, and
she says seven or eight. And I don't even think
Natalia definitively knows her age. It seems like from what
I understand, we have like a two to three year
age range.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
That's kind of what I understood it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
That's kind of what I understand as well. So I mean,
seven or eight could be like eight or nine.

Speaker 4 (01:05:29):
You know, it's you heard her when they were asking
her like about her age, and she said, well, and
this was before that she's.

Speaker 3 (01:05:37):
Gotten anything changed.

Speaker 4 (01:05:38):
But she was like, yeah, well I'm you know, legally
i'm whatever, but physically i'm this.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
And I was like, whoa, like when they were talking.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
To her age difference or something. I do have math
done down here, because I also do some math sometimes. Chante,
I'm really proud of you. Thank you. So now we
meet doctor Andrew Woods, who was the endochronologist who saw
Natalia on June third, twenty ten. And in twenty ten,
doctor Woods said that Natalia was between nine and eleven

(01:06:09):
years old, and this was five weeks after she entered
their household so they knew that she was a kid
right away. She wasn't five.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
It's so fucking nobody knows how old she is the timeline.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
I think she was five when she got when she
came to and.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
When she came to the United States. Yeah right, that's
how she like bounced around and yeah the DePaul's, we'll
hear from the next So they did know she was
a child. And again that's why Michael and Christine distanced
themselves from the Gateway Woods report, because it incorporated the
age that doctor Woods had said that Natalia was, like,

(01:06:47):
she's between nine and eleven. So then we meet Nicole
and Vince de Paul and they are both little people,
and they say that Natalia was absolutely lutely undoubtedly a
child when they met her, and they think that the
Barnard's should be in jail, and I agree.

Speaker 4 (01:07:07):
Period, No, yeah, absolutely, forever, preferably.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Like it's so fucking extreme what they did. The Depauls
met Natalia in two thousand and nine at they had
arranged a meeting at a museum. They had their four
year old biological daughter with them, and they said that
Natalia and their daughter got along instantly, like there were
just two peas in a pod. They had two more

(01:07:32):
visits and were really hopeful actually to welcome Natalia into
their family. But after their last visit, they never got
to see Natalia again because things got messy with the attorneys.
As Nicole says, child Protective Services had been called on
the Chacones, and they suspected that the Depauls were the

(01:07:54):
ones who did it, because I think that the Depauls
could tell that Natalia was not being treated well by
the Chickns. You know, they're trying to like pawn her off.
They're doing all sorts of me and stuff. So they
believe that the Checkons blamed the Depauls and took the

(01:08:14):
adoption off the table, which is so fucked, like you're
going to retaliate against this family that wants to take
good care of this child because you can't handle your
ego and like because you're being a piece of shit
like yourselves. Yea, so many people again, like Gypsy failed

(01:08:34):
her along the way. The Depauls thought that the Depauls
thought that the Barnetts seemed sus since they took Natalia
so quick. They were like, who doesn't meet with a
kid a couple times and like get to know them.
They thought that was very strange. And she shows picks

(01:08:55):
of she shows pictures of Natalia at different visits, and
Natalia is in different stages of her teeth growing. So
I has one picture she has a tooth fully missing,
and then in the next it's it's half grown in
or something like that. You can tell that she was
going through losing her fucking baby teeth, which happens in

(01:09:16):
childhood at that time.

Speaker 4 (01:09:18):
Bactly, it was very evident, Like there's no question that
that's a child.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
Yeah, so's so ridiculous. Christine texts Nicole and is like,
did you ever question Natalia's age? And Nicole DePaul is
like no, Like, what the fuck are you talking about?
She's a kid. And Natalia says that she had a

(01:09:42):
tooth come out while she was at the Barnett's, and
Christine accused her of pulling her own tooth out. I mean,
this bitch knows that she's a child, Like it's been
confirmed by doctors.

Speaker 4 (01:09:56):
And it's evident the more you see her talking. It's
it's not even just that you have physical proof that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
You also have like visual proof she's a child.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
And she was so fucking precious, Like, how what how
do you do that to a child who has already
suffered so much? You evil, fucking cunt bat. Natalia's prior
dentist said that Christine brought Natalia in to see if
her teeth could prove her age. It's like, yeah, well

(01:10:27):
you already did that, so in twenty eleven, she said.
In twenty eleven, Natalia had twelve baby teeth remaining, which
the dentist says, she which the dentist said, means that
she was eight to nine years old. So here comes
the math I did.

Speaker 3 (01:10:45):
Here, it comes so proud.

Speaker 1 (01:10:47):
They legally changed her age to twenty two the next year,
in twenty twelve, So in twenty twelve she would have
between So in twenty twelve, she would have actually been
between nine and thirteen years old by doctor's estimates. So
when they aged her up to twenty two from somewhere

(01:11:08):
between nine and thirteen, they aged her up an additional
nine to thirteen years, depending on how old she actually was.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
And now, honestly, I think she probably was like eleven,
like what like.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
She's probably like eleven, probably about eleven, So they probably
aged her up eleven years. Yeah, and then I think
that's not an apartment by yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:11:30):
Here, let's drop you off in this small town and
where in a place that's unsafe and by.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Oh and by the way, Warmonte, how did you feel
about her calling it a white trash town.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
Oh? I mean, look at I'm wearing the word shit
on my shirt.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
Stop it. I love you.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
I'm just saying whether you're white trash or not. Okay,
I'm just kidding, there really is. I mean, Lafia and
West Lafia are two different towns. You have the college
town and the one next to it, and Lafia is
where the trendy and the poor folk live. I can't
believe I just said the word folk.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
Well, I was just thinking, that's like, that's like what
happens in hipster neighborhoods before they get totally gentrified.

Speaker 4 (01:12:10):
Right, That's exactly what I was like. I didn't know
how to say that without saying that that it really is.

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
What it is. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
I mission in San Francisco, and that's exactly what that was. Yeah,
so I actually totally know what you're saying. Yeah, Natalia
is getting her definitive age results with Bishop and Twine
ment with Bishop and twin man's her guardian. Now we're
going to seeing her in a room with her guardian.

(01:12:36):
And they say that she's probably about twenty two at
this time in August of twenty twenty three. So in
twenty eleven, no, so in twenty twelve they were like,
she's twenty two. And then when they did that interview
last year, they were like, okay, we did the like
the paper and the math and everything, and you're twenty

(01:12:58):
two now, so okay, okay, wait yeah no, so they
aged her up eleven years. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
I was to say, yeah, I'm pretty here. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
So Natalia starts crying, saying that it's so big to
learn this because it's been thirteen years of two people
lying and they ruined a child's life. She says, they
painted me as a monster when they were the monsters.
It's just I cannot. I can't cannot.

Speaker 3 (01:13:27):
It's just hurts just to even think about it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
You guys are so welcome. I'm doing this for you guys,
like literally, I'm taking it in chunks, and luckily I've
had some really really awesome researchers helped me out and
help me take some notes so that I don't have
to watch like everything fucking twice to make sure that
I get everything, and so it has. It's been a

(01:13:52):
team effort. I have some really amazing people who helped
me because I couldn't fucking like research, untell and edit
all of this on the fly.

Speaker 4 (01:14:02):
You know, it's a lot to hear it over and
over again and try to separate yourself from the story.

Speaker 3 (01:14:07):
It's yeah, it's too much. That's too much pressing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
You just put up a wall and you just like
clean your house and you like right in your schedule
and you watch so much YouTube. Anyways, Okay, you know
what I don't, Ashley, You're doing good. Just get back.
We're about done with this episode. We are actually so
we find out that she really here's here's them's the breaks. Okay.

(01:14:35):
She came to the country at the age of four
years old. She was adopted for the first time at
the age of seven. She was eight years old when
the age petition to change her age was filed, and
she was put in an apartment in Lafayette alone when
she was nine almost ten. Just and that's the end

(01:15:00):
of episode one, you guys, that's locked up. We are
in April of twenty twenty three, so just last year,
you guys, And this has been six months. And this
has been six months since Michael's acquittal. Yep. Justice, that's
slippery bitch.

Speaker 3 (01:15:21):
It was not served now, it wasn't even.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
Michael was not acquitted.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
And at this point Natalia hasn't spoken to Michael in years.

Speaker 3 (01:15:30):
And right, rightful, Lisa, let's get it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
Also, though there's been all kinds of crazy legal shit
with gag orders and stuff, so all of the gag
orders that have legally permitted them that have legally not
permitted them from talking are up now. She probably also
just didn't want to talk to him because he's I
don't know. I don't want to say he's a crazy
person because I don't like calling people crazy, but he

(01:15:54):
really does act like a crazy person with like his
emmer performances that he puts on. Yeah, it's a whole thing,
the way that he acts for the camera. I'm like,
that's crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:16:06):
I mean I usually am like usually want to be
friends with and want to like hang around guys who
are willing to have emotions. But his emotions made me
want to punch his head through a wall.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
I truly, I don't think they're genuine.

Speaker 3 (01:16:20):
No they're not.

Speaker 4 (01:16:21):
It is just like all of a sudden, he's just
throwing an adult, a grown man, adult fit.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
That's what he does.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Crocodile tears the whole, the whole.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
Sorry, Boodle, I'm sorry. It's like, oh, you're not sorry.
Who are your popsar? Could you just give me a second?

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
No, Michael, you have your second.

Speaker 4 (01:16:39):
Yeah I know, And like you didn't even give her
a second. I don't know of your time. I don't
know to protect.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Her right that they give you a second on a
vulnerable child with disabilities that you adopted. Yeah, no, whatever. Also,
I want to say, what's up to the YouTube people? Heyes.
Phantom Shadow Song says the jurors did not know about
her true age and both hearings from both of the Barnetts. Yeah,

(01:17:05):
so that's actually very true and a very important fact
because because there was so much shenanigans with her age
being changed, when they went to court, it wasn't to
prove that they had abandoned a child, because they weren't
able to bring her agent too it at all. All.

(01:17:26):
They what they were trying to prove was that Michael
and Christine had abandoned someone that they had taken responsibility
for child or adult who had special needs, take that
they needed to be taken care of, like the scheduled surgeries.
Obviously Natalia needs special shoes to walk.

Speaker 3 (01:17:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:17:46):
Putting her in an apartment that had a shit ton
of stare is yeah, with no assistance whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
Right. So apparently, though, how did they get acquitted? I
don't get it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:58):
Actually, I'm going to tell you that it's because legally,
her age legally was the age that like they were
referring to her as, so they couldn't say she was
a child because legally her age was not a child
and because it changed.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
Oh well, you know, if you if you adopt somebody
and then you don't actually know how old they are.
I mean, I guess it would make sense that you
wouldn't want to do X, Y and Z for them. Murner, Yeah, cunts, yeah, okay,
oh yeah. So Michael has reached out to Natalia and
says that he wants to talk, and Natalia agreed to

(01:18:35):
do so because she has a lot of questions and says, quote,
let's see what he has to say. Michael feels compelled
to speak. Michael feels compelled to speak to Natalia because
he quote just wants everybody to be happy and heal
outlive their lives because quote, in the end, a bad
guy wouldn't be here doing this, said.

Speaker 3 (01:18:56):
That gaslight much. I don't, I don't, I don't know,
just immediately irritate.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
A bad guy wouldn't even be here trying to talk
to Natalia. Not apologized to her, but a bad guy
wouldn't even be here in her presence after all that
she's done to me.

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
I have monsters, bro, you are a monster.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
You're the monster. You are the monster in your closet.
It's in the mirror. Hi, there it is boom. Yeah.
So we are now at an in person meeting with Natalia,
and she is going to be meeting up with Michael.
And she's with her her guardian, her man guardian, her

(01:19:42):
male guardian because they I'm sorry, she's with her guardian.
That's a man. His name is Anchwan, Bishop Anchwan. Man's
is a man, and he's her man. What's happening mean either,
like most of the name, So it's real fucking awkward

(01:20:04):
right outside of the door, Like Michael's sitting on a
couch right inside the whole film cruise there, producers, everything
right outside the door. Antwin is prepping Natalia and coaching her,
and they're praying praise, like God, take it, God take
you to it. He's gonna take you through it. I

(01:20:25):
want you to say what's on your heart. I want
you to say everything that you have suffered. It's okay
to be angry, be confident, walk in there and speak
the truth. Make him come to your will. It's very
it's a very intense and impassioned speech.

Speaker 4 (01:20:43):
It is I'm gonna be honest with you, though he
gives me vibes of cold ish. I'm sorry, I know
I want to say it, but that was immediately my
trigger was that moment where I didn't like it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
I was like, wait, why is God here?

Speaker 4 (01:20:59):
But it was also just the way that he like
stepped in as this dad. I mean, it's basically very
parallel to my story. Oh you need a dad, let
me be your dad. But the way that it goes
about it is just slightly uncomfortable to me.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
Yeah, and I feel I think almost kind of like
is goating her the right word. He's like, yeah, going
there and fucking be a bulldog.

Speaker 4 (01:21:22):
But he knew the cameras were right there. Yeah, yeah, oh,
very performative of like look, what kind of fucking dad?
I am like, hello, like I'm amazing, like yeah, and listen,
I'm a fan of them like coming to her aid yes,
like and and helping her like yes, great.

Speaker 3 (01:21:41):
I love it. But then I also feel the whole
white savior vibes or the savior vibes. I said white
savor because I was like, he's black, Michael is all
white people, and there was that vibe.

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
Okay, sorry anyways, but I'm talking about the whole vibes
of it being like this the Savior to come in
and save.

Speaker 3 (01:21:59):
Yeah, could have done.

Speaker 1 (01:22:01):
It's like is it a pr job for God?

Speaker 4 (01:22:04):
I just felt a little And again I don't kind
to speak on.

Speaker 1 (01:22:07):
It, like no, I don't want to talk shit because
I'm super happy that Natalia is like with a family
that is taking care of her and that she feels
loved and safe. I just I don't like when people
are taking religion and like vigorously shoving it down your
fuck it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:25):
He doesn't seem as though she has gotten the help
she needs psychologically, with like getting a therapist.

Speaker 1 (01:22:32):
And a therapist when you have God chante, Well, you're ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
Come on, God is the reason they need a therapist.

Speaker 1 (01:22:39):
I'm sorry, dude, I've read the Bible and he's kind
of a dick. He's like, you're smited, You're smited. And
I'm not putting down anybody who's religious. I'm just saying
that's a fucking fact. I've read the Bible and he
smites everybody all the time.

Speaker 3 (01:22:52):
It's mean, yeah, it's uh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:55):
Yeah, can I get an amen? I got it?

Speaker 3 (01:22:57):
And I say an.

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
So yeah, it's it's it's awkward. Yeah, it's pretty awkward. Uh,
you know Michael and Michael Lawyer.

Speaker 4 (01:23:08):
At all right, He's like listening to all this happen,
Michael talking about Michael, and that's right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
Also, let's not forget this quote. Anchwan yells that devil
is a liar, and where we go, God goes, look,
Michael's evil and he's a liar. But and Joanna is
making a good point. The New Testament apparently shows a
different side of God. And I haven't gotten into the

(01:23:37):
New Testament. I'm still in the Old Testament. He's still
very smighty, So you know.

Speaker 4 (01:23:42):
That's true, though it does the New Testament is very
about love.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
So I will, you know, I will make that caveat that.
That's a it's a thick book. What the fuck? Sixty
six books in one Yeah, my gosh, so yeah, my god,
I can't so so. And also, you know, God goes

(01:24:06):
where I go too, and chante. It sounds like a
no for you, but that's everybody. But my God is
like mother Nature and like yeah woo woo bullshit like that.
So you know, it's like whatever, whatever makes you, whatever
makes you feel good before it's felt like when people
are like devil.

Speaker 4 (01:24:25):
Yeah, as long as you're not using it to control
someone aggressive.

Speaker 1 (01:24:30):
Yeah, I like would Natalia? It feels it makes the
love and care feel conditional, Like what if Natalia was
like I'm not into this? Yeah, would that be allowed? No?
I probably probably not.

Speaker 3 (01:24:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:45):
I don't hit that with hide.

Speaker 3 (01:24:47):
Have you watched all of it or you have only
watched the first two episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:24:51):
No, I've only watched the first two episodes because I'm
just care taking it in chunks.

Speaker 4 (01:24:55):
I have a hard time not allowing for I shouldn't
have probably watched all of them. I having a hard
time not allowing other episodes to impact how I feel.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
Oh dang, yeah, no, we can't be on different journeys.
What'd you do?

Speaker 3 (01:25:07):
Sorry, listen, I love that journey for me.

Speaker 1 (01:25:11):
Okay, and you know what, whatever journey you love for you,
I'm on board. So yeah, no any love sorry, no, no,
it's I love it. Yeah, I love love and love
love love. I love his love lamp. That was that
well mine was Anchorman, but that was heartbreak kid. And
that's a deep cut and not enough people bring that up.

(01:25:32):
High five? Yes, yes, Ben Stiller, you guys, it's amazing. Okay,
So now we're starting to talk to Terence Kinnard, Michael
Barnett's lawyer, and he states that everyone was excited to
see Michael and read. He states that everyone is excited
to see Michael and Natalia reunite.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
Oh yeah, super, Oh that's what it was.

Speaker 1 (01:25:51):
Yeah, yeah, very nice, very exciting. I'm sure and uh.

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
You think Michael pays him.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
I'm just kidding, right, and to the camera, Yeah, Terrence
is like his his speech was unusual, to say the least,
like he was trying to like say nicely. He's like, yeah,
you know, it's just like there was kind of an
excited vibe which I guess the producers were excited because

(01:26:20):
they're making good television. But yeah, Michael's excited because he's
a narcissistic dick cuckoo pants dick face.

Speaker 3 (01:26:28):
It's the whole I'll give you some Spanish feelings.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
Now, blanca, Oh okay?

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (01:26:35):
Or do I say? Or did I? Did I not
need to mix it up? Or is it blanca basura?

Speaker 4 (01:26:40):
That's a great question that I probably don't fully feel comfortable.

Speaker 3 (01:26:43):
I don't know when you're I think it would be
sentence and order blanco. I'm not positive.

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
And I thought I was pronouncing it good and then
you came in with the real pronunciation, dropping it like
it's hot.

Speaker 3 (01:26:56):
Yeah, sorry, listen. I would biling students.

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
I'm there, very white like I unfortunately never I blame
the education system actually do it for not being good enough.
Because my boyfriend's from Denmark and he knows a bunch
of languages. I don't multiple, I don't know how many,
but and I always feel really stupid for not knowing
another language, and I'm like, you could do it, actually,

(01:27:19):
and then it seems like a lot of work. Yeah,
then I do something else.

Speaker 4 (01:27:23):
You have to I learned phrases and build from phrases,
and that's how I've been able to feel a little
more comfortable with my Spanish.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
But yeah, I'm like, I've blamed the school system. You're like, yeah,
I didn't. I remember I got I was like before
I went and got my master's and now I'm a
stem I think. Okay, but hot stat Okay, twenty five
percent of Americans are illiterate. Isn't that sad?

Speaker 3 (01:27:47):
It really is. It's bad.

Speaker 1 (01:27:48):
It's really sad.

Speaker 4 (01:27:49):
It's because the system has never been altered. Its stayed
the same, and other people have grown as we grow
as humans, but America decided not to do that with
their education.

Speaker 1 (01:27:59):
I was looking at stats, like literally the stats in
other parts of the world, and we are.

Speaker 4 (01:28:06):
Yeah, And I'm just going to state that that. I
want to make it very clear that I am not
blaming teachers for that. Teachers are a part of the ool,
so I know you're not either, but I just want
to double.

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
Yeah, you're just like, oh, educators, the the the government, right,
they're kind of that's who we blow over sears, and
that is exactly the problem. Personally, I'm gonna speak for
me for most things. Yeah, sheep. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:28:35):
So get on off our soapboxes you. Yeah, hey everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
Hi, I'm welcome back. It's officially you're awesome. Here we go.
Natalia enters and sits down across from Michael and says,
why are we here, Michael, And he's like, oh, don't know,
we're uh what And she's like, why did you adopt
me in the first place? And again you can't fucking
come up with an answer because it's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:29:03):
I haven't seen my boys.

Speaker 1 (01:29:05):
He's such a sad little victim. I mean, I think
any baby Violin come out every time he.

Speaker 3 (01:29:11):
For his boys, I mean, finish that sent Oh no,
of course I feel.

Speaker 1 (01:29:16):
Are fucking victims.

Speaker 4 (01:29:17):
Yeah, but like, bro, don't don't be to bringing your
I'm gonna be honest with you. Anytime that you're trying
to address someone who is part of your trauma and
they're sitting down with you and they want to tell
you about their trauma, that's a problem. That's a problem.
First of all, you've caused too much trauma. You're not
allowed to trauma dump on the person you gave trauma.
To go sit down and shut the fuck up.

Speaker 1 (01:29:37):
Please, getting another personal twinge.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
Yep, I'm sorry, I'm so.

Speaker 1 (01:29:43):
So growing up with a narcissist has its commonalities. Yeah,
I grew up with Onan and so did I tell
you for you know? Not really? I mean they had
her for how long before they fucking dumped her on
her own? So, but she's been dealing with him, let's say, right, Yeah,

(01:30:03):
So she again demands why, because I'd want to know
why the fuck you adopted me too, if it wasn't
to take care of me.

Speaker 4 (01:30:11):
Yeah, and you know why he didn't want to say right,
because he knows damn well they were using her.

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):
Yeah, Because the answer isn't we adopted you because we
wanted to love you, want to take care of you, and.

Speaker 3 (01:30:24):
We adopted you to help us look good and we
fucked that up.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
But that's not a good answer. That doesn't sound great
out loud.

Speaker 3 (01:30:30):
I guess I'm not shouldn't sound great out loud.

Speaker 1 (01:30:33):
I'm guessing Terence Kinner advised Michael against giving any answers
we're anywhere close to the truth. So we now are
talking to Brandon Davenport, who's a detective with the Indiana
State Police, and he says, quote, everyone gets involved in this,
he says, quote everyone that gets involved in this case

(01:30:54):
always starts out with, man, this is a really crazy story.
It's like it really is, because I'm convinced that Christine
took the plot of the movie Orphan and like literally
just took that movie and was like, Oh, that thing
that happened in that hit movie from last year, weird,

(01:31:16):
that's happening to me too. Yeah, like it seems like
it's straight out of a movie because she took it
straight out of a fucking movie. It's yeah, it's not
even the original.

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
No question, no questions, stupid bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:31:30):
Also, one day, maybe if you're interested, we can talk
about Barbara Sclara or something. She's like the real Orphan,
like really like I don't know if the movie was
inspired by her, but it's this woman who is thirty,
she was in her thirties. Her dad's a fucking cult leader.
She escapes from her dad and the cult with a

(01:31:51):
couple from the cult. They somehow like I don't know
if they fucking killed their son or what, but they
give Barbara their kids. ID. So, now this is the
already one year old named Barbara whose dad is a
cult leader, is on the run and she's going under
the name of Adam, who's a twelve year old boy,
and then she starts she gets adopted by this woman

(01:32:12):
who's actually the same age as her, but she's still
being Adam, and then they start torturing the biological kids together. Listen,
no more spoilies. Do you want to hear about that?

Speaker 3 (01:32:22):
Sometimes fuck yes and also disturbingly no, but no, but yeah, yeah,
I'm like, it's really uncomfortable, be like, yes, I want
to hear about that. But he's like, whoa right, because
it's so fucked up.

Speaker 1 (01:32:35):
It gets way crazier than what I just fucking told you, Like,
it gets so much more wild, dude, Like what so
so yeah. Detective Brandon Davidport says, this is a really
crazy story because it is. He was first contacted in

(01:32:55):
twenty nineteen by a doctor reporting that a child Italia
obviously came into pardon me, came into his facility, but
the child's documents were strange, the documents and idea that
Natalia had said that she was an adult, but they
were like, m she is clearly not an adult and

(01:33:17):
very much so a child. And he really believes and
if like, if you don't what's wrong with you that
Natalia deserves justice. She was made She was a child
who was made to pretend to be an adult and
then was neglected and abandoned. And if anybody's not really

(01:33:37):
familiar with neglect and abandonment, it's it's a really impactful
type of abuse. It's not being verbally abused or emotionally
or mentally abused, or it's not being hit. It's your
parents at a very young age giving you the message
that you're not worth having your basic needs met. And

(01:34:00):
that like news Slash update you guys fox with you
for a super long.

Speaker 3 (01:34:05):
Time, crazy right, Yeah? Imagine that really is wild?

Speaker 1 (01:34:10):
Yeah, and has developed my dark sense of humor. And
I get so defensive when people are like true crime comedy,
How could you laugh at terrible things? And like because
if I don't laugh, all like go.

Speaker 3 (01:34:23):
Into a very dark place and not come out.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:34:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:34:28):
Because I have trauma, and I'm allowed to be able
to handle my trauma how whatever the fuck it works
for me.

Speaker 1 (01:34:34):
And then Hellelujah, Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:34:36):
Don't tell me how to handle my trauma. I've already
been told how to what to do my whole entire
fucking life, I'm gonna decide.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
Or when you've been neglected and abandoned and you weren't
given parental guidance, when other people tell you what to do,
you're like, oh, I'm sorry, did you want to go
fuck yourself super hard? Because i know how to take
care of myself because I've been doing it since i
was five?

Speaker 3 (01:34:55):
You piece of shit? Right?

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
Sorry officer? No? Actually sorry, No, here's here's my license. No,
I was going five with the speed limit. You're right,
I have issues with authority.

Speaker 3 (01:35:06):
I do too, but mine's very opposite of yours.

Speaker 4 (01:35:09):
I'm like, someone will tell me what to do and
I'll be like this, like what, I'm like, I'm just
looking for who the fuck you're talking to, because I
know for a fact it is not me.

Speaker 3 (01:35:16):
Not me, there's zero chance.

Speaker 1 (01:35:18):
Oh oh me no our motto both of us, you guys,
we've both said fuck around and find out. Or Chante
also likes I wish the fuck you would, but I
kind of don't, because like I feel like people the
fuck do all the time, and I'm like, can you
just cut it out for a second.

Speaker 4 (01:35:38):
I just say that because I'm like, I want you
to give me a reason to knock your ass out.

Speaker 1 (01:35:42):
I know, I know, I feel like the is daily.
It's crazy, it's so true. Can we get in together, please,
this is so much out here in these streets.

Speaker 4 (01:35:54):
Please hit the fuck down somewhere, take some milatonin and
take a nap.

Speaker 1 (01:35:58):
Oh okay, no, oak, I have I went to Target
before this?

Speaker 3 (01:36:03):
So did I did?

Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
You? Really? Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:36:05):
I did. I was literally ran home from Target to
get on here.

Speaker 1 (01:36:09):
Bitch, shut up. That is so sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:36:12):
Stop it anyway, how much you were at Target.

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
Don't actually I tell me. I'm not gonna tell you. Listen,
Let's keep it to yourself. Okay, I'm just gonna tell
you what's set up in the next room for when
we're done with this. I got like one of those
things that you put in your bathtub so it holds shit. Yes,
And I got some Himalayan epsom salt fucking like doctor
teals relaxing a bubble bath. And I got a new

(01:36:38):
candle that smells like Gardenya's motherfucker. It's like the best
smelling candle i've bougie smelt. Oh. And I have like,
I have a bath pillow and it's not like a plastic,
it's not like some plastic bullshit and don't before you
call me bougie. It was like fifteen dollars on Amazon.
Everybody can make it happen. Okay, But like you, I
have one to town and I take a bath like

(01:37:01):
it's like spaw time. I like, I put on my
fucking my I also have like a AsSalt lamp, so
I put I put my salt lamp on, I got
my candles, I put my app on with the rain
noises and the crackling fire because it's it's a hot mix,
let me tell you. And then I stay in there
for like two hours until the water's cold. And I'm

(01:37:22):
a prune.

Speaker 4 (01:37:23):
You straight up know that you're boiling your body in
your own body juices for two hours.

Speaker 1 (01:37:29):
I take a shower after though I'm just playing.

Speaker 3 (01:37:31):
I am this huge fan of baths.

Speaker 1 (01:37:33):
I'm like, you're not a shame in me. But I
know a lot of people make that argument, But yeah,
I shower after. I don't bathe, as it's not your bath.
The bath is not to bathe and it's falling on
a budget. No I know, no I don't, but I'm like,
that's like because I can't afford to go to like spas.
That's crazy, you know, let's not get carried away. I

(01:37:54):
make a spa in my bathroom. Yeah, I teell you
the best I can.

Speaker 4 (01:37:59):
I do want to say to you, though ironically, I
also purchased doctor deals. I'm a Layan, but I like
literally glanced Summer at my table and was like, did
she just say okay, hear me out?

Speaker 3 (01:38:11):
But I got the body scrub that is that brand.

Speaker 1 (01:38:13):
I am literally almost got the body scrub, but I
got scrubbing gloves, and I'm like, you don't need to to.

Speaker 3 (01:38:20):
Stand and I got a scrubbing glove. You exfoliate, you
got no?

Speaker 1 (01:38:25):
I thought I thought you just exfoliate with the glove.
The scrubs too much, Ashley.

Speaker 4 (01:38:30):
No, because I want to get a spray tan on Monday,
so I'm ecliating my skin.

Speaker 1 (01:38:34):
Oh my god, that is so fun.

Speaker 4 (01:38:38):
I really hate myself for saying that out loud, but
I you know, it.

Speaker 3 (01:38:41):
Is what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:38:41):
No, I want to I was actually literally recently thinking
that I want to get a spray tan because when
I have a spray tan and put on Mascarra game changer.

Speaker 3 (01:38:49):
It is good about yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:38:52):
And I'm actually because you could go get a spray tan.
You could go stand in a booth for thirty seconds.

Speaker 4 (01:38:59):
And I'm going to a party with my friend's party
that we're all getting spray tands at.

Speaker 3 (01:39:04):
They have like someone coming to sprays.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
At a swingers party. I wish it were getting.

Speaker 3 (01:39:10):
I wish none of them are lesbians enough to want
to actually get down with me.

Speaker 1 (01:39:15):
Okay, like, no, we're just like spray tons.

Speaker 4 (01:39:18):
I would happily participate in some like painting, body painting
and stuff too.

Speaker 3 (01:39:24):
While we're doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:25):
I got my friend, you like, let's spice this up.
I got my friend, my boyfriend, and I got our
friends that are a couple and our friends. She's super creative,
she's like an amazing artist painter. And we got them
this bucket of paints and ship that were like body

(01:39:47):
paints that are glowing the dark for in the bath.
He was like, I'm sorry, glow in the dark bath paint,
body paint time.

Speaker 3 (01:39:55):
It's like a dream come true.

Speaker 1 (01:39:56):
They were very happy with the gifts.

Speaker 3 (01:39:58):
Oh y'all went yeah, I mean, there's nothing better than.

Speaker 1 (01:40:02):
That, And the audience is like, for sure, you guys,
but what happened next? So so now.

Speaker 4 (01:40:07):
We've never put two ADHD people in the same mock,
so wild, what are we doing here anyway? And it
was so Natalia, tell me more about where we are
with that episode.

Speaker 1 (01:40:18):
So we're now we're back to Jackie Starbuck, former deputy
prosecutor of Tip a Canoe. I'm on it this time,
peel in it last time. I was like, who the
fuck is that? Now? I know?

Speaker 3 (01:40:27):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
So Michael alleged that Christine thought that she had turned
their son Jacob into a genius. Michael alleged that and
she totally did think that because oh, very obvious by
the book she wrote Sparking Joy or something.

Speaker 4 (01:40:44):
And you can change someone's IQ, right, I mean right,
that's something you're not born with or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
Yeah, just like my.

Speaker 3 (01:40:52):
Sexuality, we can also change that. I'm yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:40:56):
What it was, dude. I tried with girls a couple times.
I was like, give it a go, Ashley. I mean,
guys aren't working and you think they're hot, and let
me tell you, it's not something you choose. I was like, fuck,
you're so attractive, but I'm just not feeling this right now,
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:41:13):
And literally the thought of having a guy with any
of that anywhere near me makes me one hundred percent
vomit in my mat.

Speaker 1 (01:41:19):
It's all dangly.

Speaker 3 (01:41:20):
Oh, it's just there's nothing about that to me.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
That bob in your face.

Speaker 3 (01:41:25):
Y'all do stuff you like no thing.

Speaker 1 (01:41:28):
How I felt with the vagina though, I was like, oh,
these guys are they're up in in here, They're all
up in this, and I was overwhelmed. Again we are
what the fuck autism? And Christine saying.

Speaker 3 (01:41:49):
That the I create a wat I said, you can
change someone's got onto.

Speaker 1 (01:41:56):
Like bath paint. I don't know. We went.

Speaker 3 (01:41:58):
It was a good time anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:42:00):
I had fun. I had fun. But back it was
this Christine didn't train Jacob into being a gene into
a genius, like or turn him into one or whatever.
And you know, like we said, by adopting Natalia, she
was like, I'm gonna look like the best mom ever.
Like I just like she just for some reason, well,

(01:42:23):
she thought that she trained or taught Jacob to be
a genius, so she thought that she could do it
to Natalia too. She's like, here, here, do this physics paper.
Natalia's like I'm nine.

Speaker 3 (01:42:34):
Also like the other two boys like what what what?
What were we just like, yeah, but the other like
you had other two kids where I aren't they geniuses?
If you're so great? I mean, I'm not saying they're not,
but like you.

Speaker 1 (01:42:45):
Don't even ever heard their names? Like these poor kids.

Speaker 4 (01:42:49):
I mean, yes, she's their names been brought up over
and over again. I just don't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
It just shows if they were something that. Oh chante,
we have a fun comment.

Speaker 4 (01:43:00):
Oh I saw it and I want to comment, but
I know if I was allowed to, because I was like,
oh my gosh, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:43:05):
Have you prayed hard enough about your lesbianism?

Speaker 4 (01:43:09):
And honestly, I feel like, yeah, I think maybe going
to a conversion camp could be the answer m because
I couldn't imagine anything better than being locked up with
a bunch of lesbians. I really like, I think about it,
I'm like, that sounds like a fun summer camp where
it is I sign out and I get a scholarship
and how long am I allowed to stay?

Speaker 1 (01:43:29):
And can't we skip the winwashing sessions? Because then I
am in, oh.

Speaker 4 (01:43:35):
Yeah, yeah, I can handle brainwashing because I've done it
enough to know I can block it out now.

Speaker 3 (01:43:39):
I think I got it.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
See, I would like say some shit like that and
be in a cult tomorrow. So I'm gonna I'm gonna
lock it up. I'm gonna lock it up regarding that,
and I'm gonna get back onto this.

Speaker 3 (01:43:51):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:43:52):
Yeah, we're now one more sentence. Here we go. When
that didn't turn out the way that Christine wanted, Natalia
didn't fit into Christine's narrative anymore, Christine's like, h this
is like not great publicity. Natalian needs to go, which
is exactly what they did. So Natalia and her special

(01:44:14):
needs were included in the initial drafts of The Spark,
but all mentions of but all mentions of adopting Natalia
and her Dwarfism and Dwarfism in general were removed from
the final copy. Naturally, she totally adopted Natalia to look,
not to try to and it's fucking up her book sales.

(01:44:37):
She was literally like, thought it would be good for
book sales, and she was.

Speaker 3 (01:44:40):
Like, whoops, I fucked that up. Erased it all. Okay,
now we're good to go. Redacted redacted A fucking bitch.
What hmmm?

Speaker 1 (01:44:48):
She is such a cunterella.

Speaker 4 (01:44:51):
I hope this is like a part of hell that's
just reserved for her.

Speaker 3 (01:44:55):
Just a real if there is such thing, and I
don't believe that, but if there were such things, just
a real dark place, just all alone.

Speaker 1 (01:45:02):
I have to believe that when we die, it's lights out,
because the thought of doing anything more is so exhausting,
Like it's depressing to me. I'm not even kidding and
being like I love life, it's awesome and stuff, but
I don't want to do it again or do more
of it after we wrap this up, you know, let's
give it our let's give it our best shot here

(01:45:23):
and like ashes to ashes, worms to worms and ship.

Speaker 4 (01:45:28):
Just let it go, you know, honestly, like the idea
of just going to sleep.

Speaker 1 (01:45:32):
Yeah, I know, we're together. This is so bad.

Speaker 4 (01:45:36):
Okay, Okay, now we were doing so good.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
That was me though, I did that. I did that. Okay, Okay, listen, listen, listen, Schante.
We're now tracking again to Beth Carris Caross. Yeah, she's
a legal expert, and she says that Christine was writing
The Spark and they adopted Natalia in twenty ten, and

(01:46:03):
Christine officially signed her book deal in twenty eleven and
it was published in twenty thirteen. So it was like, okay,
once we uh, you know, once we've got the official
book deal and we see that this little situation is
not going to work in our favor, we gotta get
her out of here before like that shit is pubbibled.

(01:46:24):
Got to go, She's gotta go. And Christine has made
a fuck ton of money off of Jacob and thought,
let me find another child to profit off of. So
in two thousand and nine, the Barnett's daycare. Yeah, this
woman should have a whole bunch of other people's children
in her care. Oh. When I heard that, I was like,

(01:46:46):
which she also called Jacob's Place, just wow, just exploit
the fuck out of that kid.

Speaker 3 (01:46:52):
You have two other kids, bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:46:54):
Yeah, we don't know them. What other kids? So in
two thousand and nine alone, Jacob's Place made one hundred
forty five thousand, three hundred dollars, which I think is
more than I've ever made in my life collectively, and
additional donations and then a book deal advance for six

(01:47:19):
hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 4 (01:47:22):
There's one hundred thousand dollars. And how much did Jacob
get again?

Speaker 1 (01:47:25):
I think you might have said about like five dollars
a cup of coffee? Yeah, definitely. I think we do
actually have a quote coming.

Speaker 3 (01:47:36):
Oh yeah, come at me.

Speaker 1 (01:47:37):
There was even a fucking movie deal about about essentially
about Jacob and Christine in the work, and Rosamund Pike
was actually going to play Christine. Do you know who
that is?

Speaker 3 (01:47:48):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:47:48):
Who tell me? Wait quiz?

Speaker 3 (01:47:49):
I think so? Wait, hold on, hold on.

Speaker 1 (01:47:51):
Rosamond Pike was okay, told it's a girl from Gone Girl.

Speaker 3 (01:47:55):
She's okay, Who's I was like, I do know that name?
And then you're the.

Speaker 1 (01:47:58):
Girl who me like, oh you do? It's because I didn't.
It's actually because I didn't know, so I was like, oh,
let me go with you. I thought that maybe you
would know. Actually just damn okay, okay, So that's who
Rosemundpike is, you guys. Back to the story. In twenty nineteen,
Christine was soliciting donations for this is the most ridiculous

(01:48:21):
name I've ever heard, the International Campaign to End the seclusion, restraint,
physical and Verbal Abuse of Children with Disabilities. Not only
is it the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, because
it's like sixteen or twenty words in a row. Also,
you are literally taking a child with disabilities, restraining them

(01:48:46):
physically and verbally abusing them and then secluding them. The
International Campaign to End the soecrgusion restraint Physical and Verbal
Abuse of Children with Disabilities. Oh sixteen words, Oh my god,
I nailed it. That is way too long of that's
too many words it is?

Speaker 4 (01:49:05):
And are you saying sixteen words like I counted to
sixteen you know that you nailed it because you did math?
Or you saying I nailed it like it's more than
the last one we were.

Speaker 1 (01:49:15):
No, I nailed it because I looked at it and
I just guessed sixteen.

Speaker 3 (01:49:19):
Oh. Sorry, I don't realize you guessed it.

Speaker 1 (01:49:21):
Okay, Oh I guessed and then I counted and confirmed that.

Speaker 4 (01:49:25):
That's actually highly highly sought after math skill. So I'm impressed,
really like being an ultimation of the word look and
be able to guess and then actually be accurate by
just like scanning.

Speaker 1 (01:49:37):
Yeah, so I do some I do so smart. I
do some math. You guys, Sometimes you're math that they
shall sometimes I'm math it up. It's all good. So
Christine and her psychotic ass thought that she could use
Natalia's disabilities to profit and thought that Natalia could be
the subject of an additional book like, you know, in

(01:49:57):
her planning phases, she was like, well, I could just
talk about just you know, throw a little bit about
Natalia in the first book and then boom, hello, obviously
that's stepping stone to book number two. But unfortunately, I again,
I guess Christine really did think that she taught Jane

(01:50:18):
that she I think Christine really must have thought that
she did teach Jacob to be a genius because she
just like figured that Natalia would be for some reason.

Speaker 4 (01:50:28):
Is it just because of do you think like she
really thinks that because of disabilities, like there's some magical
power she possesses with children who have a disability.

Speaker 3 (01:50:38):
I don't, because it seems to be the focal point
of her prophet.

Speaker 1 (01:50:42):
Like oh yeah, yeah, so like making her money by
being a champion for these poor children.

Speaker 3 (01:50:48):
It's just interesting anyway, not good interesting, by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:50:51):
But not only was Natalia not a genius, just an
average kid wildly, she was also, like I said, needed
a lot of expensive surgeries. So they were just like,
oh my god, she's not making us money. We actually
have to spend money on her. This is fucking insane.
We didn't sign up for this. That's this is not.
I think that's exactly what you signed up for. Actually, weirdly,

(01:51:14):
I think that's that thousand percent what you signed up
for when you signed the contract.

Speaker 4 (01:51:19):
The contract that with the parents that had there before
that you've never seen, right with with the adoption.

Speaker 3 (01:51:25):
Adoption, you've never talked to tell about what. Okay, let's
do better.

Speaker 1 (01:51:31):
At lying folks, seriously, like keep your shit together. Also,
did she think that? Did she think that Natalia was
never going to fucking grow up and be like, Hi,
look at me now versus when I was a child,
Because now you look at her now versus when they
had her in their care, and she was one thousand
percent a fucking kid. It's very obvious. There's no question

(01:51:54):
in your mind as to oh, was she a kid
back then? Not at all, because now she's in a
adult and she looks like an adult, and she looks
nothing like she did as a fucking child.

Speaker 4 (01:52:05):
Which is the way that it goes for children. They
grow up and they.

Speaker 3 (01:52:09):
Look like adults.

Speaker 4 (01:52:11):
It's insane to me that that is, like did they
I just there's no afterthought, it's just immediate thought and action. Yeah,
Like that's what I feel like they did. It was
like here's an idea. We need to get rid of her.
How do we do it right now? To save our
asses right now? And I save I mean save meaning.

Speaker 3 (01:52:27):
Because she can't make Natalia a genius.

Speaker 1 (01:52:29):
Right. Yeah, so we got that quote. Now, Jacob, the
famous Jacob says there was a fraction of the book
money that was supposed to go to me. It's on
the order of two hundred thousand dollars that was supposed
to go to me, and I didn't get a cent
of it. Michael says. Christine left Jacob with about five bucks.
Jacob says, she left me enough money to get a

(01:52:51):
cup of coffee, So that was right. I did get
that right, five bucks.

Speaker 3 (01:52:55):
And she got six hundred thousand from that book deal
or more than that.

Speaker 1 (01:52:59):
She uh, no, that was that's what that was the
book deal advance.

Speaker 3 (01:53:04):
She go, okay, I okay, make so.

Speaker 1 (01:53:08):
Much more money than that. And then when Jacob has
asked Christine, what the fuck, bitch, where's my money? She said, oh,
I used it to pay for your college education in Canada.

Speaker 4 (01:53:19):
Okay, ma'am, I don't know if you've ever heard of Canada,
but like, let's do better again, maybe lie a little
bit with some research.

Speaker 1 (01:53:28):
Also, just like the whole fucking book is about him,
so and you literally the book is about how you've
done everything in your power to make Jacob this genius
that he is, Which would I would think include paying
for his education. Maybe if you're gonna take credit for
creating the genius, wouldn't you, You don't know, maybe foot

(01:53:50):
the bill for college.

Speaker 4 (01:53:52):
And that is also part of the cost of having children.
I'm not saying everyone has to pay for their kids college.

Speaker 1 (01:53:58):
I'm just saying, if you're gonna take credit for how
fucking smart they are, then you should pay for their college.

Speaker 4 (01:54:03):
Okay, And that's on all the facts that we have
in front of us, the glaring lights.

Speaker 1 (01:54:08):
Yeah, you don't pay for your kids college, that's totally
fucking cool, Like not everybody has those financial means. But
then don't take credit for them being smart.

Speaker 3 (01:54:16):
That's rude. Let't just be quiet about it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:19):
Be proud that they did great. Yeah. Yeah, So Natalia
feels that her adoption was not a mission of love,
but a mission of boosting Christine's ego. Yes, Natalia, we agree, absolutely,
she said quote it was a mask, like I'm a
great mom, but Christine was a monster. I didn't know

(01:54:39):
what she was going to do next, and just like knowing,
I grew up in a cult, growing up with fear
as a child, of fear of going to hell, or
fear of pissing off your pastor, or fear of not
being good enough so that you get breakfast in the
morning or whatever. You know, Like it's it's not a
cool way to grow. And then you have to take

(01:55:00):
so many bubble baths when you get older because your
back hurts and shit all the time from tension. Yeah, that,
but but bump bump trauma, so much therapy. It's okay,
we're working through it. Okay. So Natalia, of course, like
most kids, was excited to be in school in first grade.

(01:55:22):
She was like excited to be around other kids and shit.
And her first grade teacher said that Natalia wasn't a prodigy,
as the Barnetts wanted to believe. She wasn't reading chapter
books or doing crazy math problems.

Speaker 3 (01:55:36):
It was an average child.

Speaker 1 (01:55:37):
She was literally just and regularly.

Speaker 3 (01:55:39):
Hey, thank God, like give her a chance to just.

Speaker 1 (01:55:42):
Be No, no, we need to torture her, right because.

Speaker 3 (01:55:47):
The school storage rushes me. It crushes me.

Speaker 1 (01:55:51):
So she's all excited to be in school and shit,
and the school principal said there were concerns about how
Christine treated in Natalia because Christine would be open a
fucking bitch to Natalia.

Speaker 3 (01:56:02):
No shame at all, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:56:04):
No shame. And also not only is this a child,
keep in mind, you guys, this is a child with disabilities,
like one of the most vulnerable people.

Speaker 4 (01:56:13):
I did, yeah, I and the idea of her like
I could feel her excitement when she was talking about that.

Speaker 3 (01:56:21):
Whole like going to school, getting to be with friends
her age, and like learning with them and feeling just
like a part of the crowd, you know what I mean,
Like it sort of felt like another part of what
it feels like to belong.

Speaker 1 (01:56:33):
And what really fucks me up is that Christine takes
Natalia out of the school because they somebody confronted her
about like, hey, the way that you're behaving to your
child is not super chill. And it reminds me of
how in the last episode, the Checones didn't let the

(01:56:54):
Depauls adopt Natalia because they suspected that the Depauls had
called c PS on them, which is Child Protective Services,
you guys. So in the last episode, the Chacons, who
were Natalia's first adoptive family who also sucked. Allegedly, okay, right, allegedly. Listen,
Natalia has spoken her truth and I'm relaying it. Natalia

(01:57:17):
was all set to be adopted by this family named
the Depauls. They were also little people. They understood that
Natalia had a lot of needs. They were excited to
welcome her into their family. They Natalia got along super
well with their adoptive bio sorry, with their biological daughter.
And then when the Chacones suspected the Depauls of calling

(01:57:38):
child Protective Services on them, they were like, fuck you
guys and took Natalia to get adopted by the Barnetts.
So hold on, Phantom shadow Song says she is living
with the Depauls. Now hold On. At the time of
the documentary, she was living with the Mans Cynthia and
Antoine Mans. If she's with the Depauls, now, that's fucking
an incredible update that I'm not aware of.

Speaker 3 (01:58:00):
Yeah, there's a that's why I'm like, there's things.

Speaker 1 (01:58:04):
Oh oh, oh, spoilees. Oh my gosh, okay, eh, what,
oh my god.

Speaker 4 (01:58:10):
That's not a spoily From the documentary oh okay, sorry,
I mean there there is a the documentary ends crazy,
but that's what that's all.

Speaker 3 (01:58:20):
That's probably where she lives now though for real, that's
probably where she lives.

Speaker 1 (01:58:23):
I fucking hope she does, dude.

Speaker 4 (01:58:27):
I mean, are we we're not putting this on the
actual podcast or are you like what we're saying right now?

Speaker 3 (01:58:33):
Okay, I don't want to ruin it for people.

Speaker 1 (01:58:35):
Oh yeah, yeah, no spoils, noileys.

Speaker 3 (01:58:38):
But yeah, but that is not in the documentary what
they're saying.

Speaker 1 (01:58:40):
Whoa, okay, whoa wow, okay, okay, yeah, all right, I
gotta keep going because that's blown blown my mind right now. Okay,
So Natali is all excited to be in school. Christine's like,
fuck that you're gonna come to Barnett Academy. That this
bitch is so fucking full of herself, it's so cuckoo.

(01:59:02):
So on Jacob's translip, I'm gonna say those with heavy
air quotes, because according to fucking who, Jacob passed Japanese,
uh but had no idea to speak, So on these
you know, transcripts, let me just start that again. So
on these transcripts, unofficially, I'm sure Christine said that Jacob

(01:59:26):
spoke fluent Japanese, which is not true. She gave Jacob
an A in home economics for helping her boil water
for spaghetti. He got an A plus in Arabic as
well as Japanese, didn't can't speak it literally kept that
either you're also an A plus in fine arts piano,

(01:59:49):
but never learned any piano, so funny. Christine claimed that
Natalia could pass a GED. Christine claimed that Natalia could
pass a GED. I am seven years old and like everybody,
her teacher her, Everybody's like, yeah, no, it's literally average intelligence.

(02:00:09):
So in the previous episode, we had said that when
Natalia was unable to do a physics assignment and said
I don't know how to do this, Christine Pepper sprayed
her in the fucking eyeballs that she made her keep
open and then wouldn't let her wash her eyes for

(02:00:30):
like ten seconds. So now Natalia is just living in
complete fucking fear when this is the next time I'm
going to get goddamn Pepper sprayed in the eyes because
I don't know how to do physics at.

Speaker 3 (02:00:43):
Ten years old, right, yeah, like shut the.

Speaker 1 (02:00:45):
Fuck up or nine or whatever. Just yeah, you're a baby. Yeah,
I can't do physics. I'm thirty.

Speaker 4 (02:00:52):
Also yeah, I'm like, uh, I mean it depends on
the physics, but like chances of me being able to
do that as a grown ass person, I'd get pepper
spray for it if I were in that situation, Like
what is this for a nine hours month?

Speaker 1 (02:01:04):
I'm in a pepper spray Christine? If I see her, Oh,
trust me, that's nice. You have to do Okay, No,
I know, I know, I'm just I can't say such
any things out loud.

Speaker 3 (02:01:15):
Yeah, no, we got to keep it. Yeah, you know
we already.

Speaker 1 (02:01:18):
Have enough, Oh, Christine. She just so. After six months
with the Barnett's, Natalia needs surgery on her feet because
they would lock in place. And this sounds like Jesus.
Either one is so painful. Either her feet would lock
in place and she's all fucked up, or she gets
her surgery, which she does need and they cut her

(02:01:40):
achilles to loose it and think like I cannot think
of like a worse almost, like I'm so uncomfortable right now,
Like that is such. It's called achilles. I'm yelling. It's
called achilles heel for a reason.

Speaker 4 (02:01:54):
Yeah, and literally a child having to go through that
kind of pain, Like I can't as in a and
I have a high pain tolerance, Like I cannot imagine
how painful.

Speaker 5 (02:02:04):
Her life must have been, right and as a child,
and after this, she was an extreme pain and she
would call out to her, She says, I would call
out to my mom, you know, because she's supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (02:02:16):
My mom and take care of me. And Christine just
wouldn't bring her any pain meds and eventually Michael would
come in and give her medicine. These people deserve so
much special treatment. In hell, Natalia began to believe that
they didn't want to take care of her when quote,

(02:02:38):
they found out how many surgeries I needed and the
fact that would have and the fact that it would
have been a long recovery process with all of them,
which is yeah, I'm sure, like among the fact that
she's not a genius, it's like, oh God, and we
need to fucking take care of her after she needs
all these stupid surgeries.

Speaker 3 (02:02:55):
Oh such a hardship. Yes, you try having it for once.

Speaker 1 (02:03:00):
Kids, that's what yeah, I like. So Natalia felt that
she was keeping Christine stuck at home, like meaning that
Christine couldn't go out and show off Jacob because she
never wanted to.

Speaker 4 (02:03:13):
Or her golden vagina or whatever it is that she
shows off to everybody.

Speaker 1 (02:03:17):
Right, she's got like a golden vagina and her tits
squirt beer.

Speaker 3 (02:03:22):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (02:03:23):
I don't know what's like magic she's got going on,
but listen. But apparently it was enough to just keep Michael.

Speaker 3 (02:03:32):
What's her vagina? His monster?

Speaker 1 (02:03:36):
Yeah, I'm just asking. Yeah. Also, Phantom Shadow swinging song,
you said, sorry, I shouldn't have said anything. It's totally fine.
I'm just saying that we're not going to expand upon
that because it's also sort of also a note to
the editor. Hi, baby, Sorry, this is a long episode.
I love you, I appreciate you. They're like, I fucking

(02:03:59):
hate you, dude. I can't I believe you made both
of these an hour. They're gonna hate me so much. Okay, Okay, okay, Okay,
I gotta go, I have to Okay, Okay, here we go. Basically,
what I'm saying is as is like that was like
a little note to the editors to like not keep
that in there.

Speaker 3 (02:04:14):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (02:04:14):
So Nicole and Vince DePaul one set of prospective adoptive
parents who she may or may not be living with
now have this same type of dwarfism as Natalia. And
they explained that everyone with diastrophic dysplasia needs many expensive surgeries,

(02:04:35):
starting as babies in order to be able to walk,
and the Barnett's only provided now and the Barnetts only
provided Natalia with one of the surgeries that she needed.

Speaker 3 (02:04:46):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (02:04:48):
And because she did not get the surgeries as they
should have got ben gotten scheduled, she now has all
these fucking like her feet are fucked up. She needs
special shoes that cost thirty thousand dollars a pair. And
no they're not designer.

Speaker 3 (02:05:08):
Like, they're just basic shoes.

Speaker 1 (02:05:10):
But yeah, but they're like I mean, Michael, well, yes,
they're not especially made for her because she didn't have
an opportunity to get the treatment that she needed to
fucking be able to walk with normal shoes.

Speaker 3 (02:05:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:05:24):
And the thing is about the shoes, you know, I
mean like basic, like she it's not like they're bejeweled
or anything's cool about them. They're just basic shoes that
she has to pay that kind of money for, specifically
because they didn't give her what she needed. I think
they're not fun shoes, they're literally shoes that help her function.
And that's how much they are ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (02:05:42):
Yeah, because of.

Speaker 1 (02:05:43):
Them, No Jimmy Choo's, no, no read bottoms, no body baton.
I don't know, I don't care. So Michael claims that
the adoption agency never told them about all the surgeries
that Natalia would require, and I find I'm not really
fucking hard to believe because Natalia claims that doctors did it. Sorry,

(02:06:06):
let me say it again, and I find that really
hard to believe. Natalia claims that doctors didn't know whether
to treat her as a child or an adult because
of so much confusion about her age. How fucked is that?
Like they're like, we don't know what you require at
this time because we don't know if you're twelve or
fucking twenty five.

Speaker 4 (02:06:26):
And all because they just wanted to age rep so
they could get her out of her home, their home.

Speaker 1 (02:06:30):
Because they wanted a ten year old to go live
by herself in an apartment.

Speaker 3 (02:06:34):
So that.

Speaker 1 (02:06:36):
Again, I'm I'm making this again. I'm seeing this parallel
between her and Gypsy Rose Blanchard because they were both
just over and over completely fucked over by the medical system,
Like where was what's happening? Where was the doctor and
the dentist who had figured out her original age saying, hey,

(02:06:56):
excuse me, I heard something weird?

Speaker 3 (02:06:58):
What the fuck?

Speaker 1 (02:06:59):
Like right, where were the people standing up for her
like such?

Speaker 3 (02:07:03):
Where were people worship that I just have?

Speaker 4 (02:07:06):
The legal system didn't even try to reach out to
be like, let's see if this is factual based on
actual reports from actual doctors and dentists, like let me
sign at the dotted line.

Speaker 3 (02:07:16):
Yep, now you're twenty two?

Speaker 1 (02:07:18):
Yeah, okay, sorry what yeah? Also legal system failing her.

Speaker 3 (02:07:24):
And that's what I have to say.

Speaker 1 (02:07:26):
Working in favor of the Barnett's Natalia, this is so sad.
Natalia felt like she could never do anything right and
was always being yelled at by Christine. Christine treated the
boys normal, but treated Natalia terrible all the time. Christina
Christine would claim that Natalia stole the boys toys. There

(02:07:47):
was a story that Michael told about stealing the boys
things and throwing them in the street for the boys
to run into traffic to get I think it was
a secondhand story. I think Christina actually probably made it up.
At first, but the story was is that Natalia took
the boy's favorite toys and threw them into traffic to
try to get the boys to run into track.

Speaker 3 (02:08:09):
Run it, yeah, because she run over.

Speaker 1 (02:08:10):
She was like the evil orphan from the movie.

Speaker 4 (02:08:13):
And the whole like farting on him, thing like, oh,
he farted on him, Like everybody does that as a
child to their siblings.

Speaker 3 (02:08:21):
Why is this a discussion?

Speaker 1 (02:08:22):
Wait, I don't remember that.

Speaker 4 (02:08:24):
Oh yeah, there's like a oh yeah, and she farted
on the boys, and it's like she did.

Speaker 3 (02:08:29):
Oh that's horrible. Go okay, so.

Speaker 1 (02:08:31):
Kids do that.

Speaker 3 (02:08:33):
I'm pretty sure don't ever do that.

Speaker 1 (02:08:34):
Like my my ex boyfriend used to like fart so
bad and I would have to leave the room because
I'd be like, dude, I feel like I'm stuck in
like a stinky prison.

Speaker 3 (02:08:45):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (02:08:45):
So everybody firts.

Speaker 3 (02:08:47):
It's like, why are we going to act like that's
some horrible things? This child just act exactly. Oh, she
is the best wind how dah.

Speaker 1 (02:08:59):
Yeah, because Christine's amazing and perfect. Natalia wonders why they
didn't just send her back, but thinks it's because they
were trying to keep a good reputation, and I think
Natalia's right about pretty much everything.

Speaker 3 (02:09:10):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:09:11):
Natalia tearfully says Christine beat her while Michael watched three
different times and never did anything. She also says that
Christine was so ashamed of her that when they would
go out, she would put Natalia in a baby stroller
and cover it up with a blanket.

Speaker 3 (02:09:30):
Whenever they would want to play or whatever. Is that
the quote, go for.

Speaker 1 (02:09:33):
It she said? Quote? She didn't want people to know
that I existed. She flat out hated me. And there's
a neighbor that actually agrees that Christine did seem to
try to hide in Natalia.

Speaker 3 (02:09:45):
She wouldn't let her play.

Speaker 4 (02:09:46):
They'd be at the playground in that and everybody else
is playing and she's in the stroller.

Speaker 1 (02:09:50):
Like does she want to play? It's like no, no, no,
she's sleeping and Natalia is in their way, Like, actually,
I do want to want to play. I'm a kid.
So Christine obviously wants Natalia to tell doctors and authorities
and everybody that she's twenty two so she can justify
Natalia living independently and putting her an apartment when she's

(02:10:11):
a nine year old. Okay, and we're about to wrap
this episode up, you guys. So we go back to
the in person meeting between Natalia and Michael, and Michael
says he's and Michael says he's learned recently that he
and Natalia had the same monster. Shut uple. Oh my god,

(02:10:32):
he says, we were both incredible victims of an other
worldly type of abuse. Nior Italia was absolutely a victim
of other worldly, multiple types of abuse. You, sir, sound
like you were an involuntary cuckold, and go fuck off.

Speaker 4 (02:10:56):
The fact though that he is like, oh yeah, same monster,
And the only phrase I personally remember him saying that
had happened to him is that he needed to sit
down and shut up or she'd take his voids from him.
And it's like, okay, yeah, no one wants to hear
someone say that to you. But like, also, also, that's
nowhere even close in the same radar is what's happening

(02:11:19):
to Natalia?

Speaker 3 (02:11:20):
How about and I don't know, maybe this is me.

Speaker 4 (02:11:22):
You sit down somewhere and shut the fuck up and
listen to what you have done to her by not
opening your damn map.

Speaker 1 (02:11:29):
Oh he doesn't have any interest in like oh no, actually, yeah,
you're acknowledging her. He doesn't want such ridiculous I wants
to talk at her so that she can understand how
he suffered. Michael claims that he was exceptionally controlled and

(02:11:51):
put down by Christine. And again, if he might have
been a fucking terrible human piece of garbage, dumpster fire,
but head, I don't. I hate him, and if he
weren't terrible, then i'd have more compassion because he it
does sound like he was emotionally and verbally abused by Christine.

(02:12:14):
And I want to make it very fucking clear that
I don't take men being abused lightly. I understand it
happens a lot, and it's not talked about very much,
and it's not taken seriously when it is, and I'd
love to start changing that stigma. But Michael is, he's
his own person, and he's a terrible one, so he

(02:12:36):
can like, sorry that you were controlled and put down
by Christine, Like sorry, she hurt your feelings. It's not cool,
she was a bitch, But like you, stop trauma comparing.
First of all, stop like trauma comparing is so stupid.
It's actually made it so that like it's been harder

(02:12:56):
for me to like connect with other survivors because of
like the Trump, I'm not comparing and it's like it's rough, dude,
It's hey, everybody's story is valid. Here is no no
one we're not what's going on here?

Speaker 4 (02:13:07):
Trust me, we're not better because we have different and
right like Trump, I mean, let's not it's wild, but
it's as.

Speaker 3 (02:13:15):
A thing we have to remind ourselves of.

Speaker 4 (02:13:17):
I don't care what you've experienced in your lifetime, people like,
please please understand what you're feeling and what you've been
through is a valid, valid thing, regardless of if you
think it is worse or better, which I don't think
that's a thing. Then that other person, like everybody's trauma
is a real.

Speaker 3 (02:13:32):
Thing and real emotions.

Speaker 4 (02:13:34):
And I'm a huge component of like just because you
maybe have heard my story or their story or his
story doesn't mean you shouldn't tell yours.

Speaker 3 (02:13:41):
That's my soapbox, and thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:13:43):
Thanks for coming to our ted talk. We're almost done.
We've covered so much today, like bubble baths, and I'm sorry,
poor geez, I don't even know, like so much has happened.
That's great. So Natalia asks Michael why he didn't leave Christine,
which also I think is like a very simple question,
or it sounds like a very simple question. But when

(02:14:04):
somebody has been with an abusive partner, why didn't you
just leave? Isn't always come with a super simple answer.

Speaker 3 (02:14:10):
And it isn't leave is not fair to use.

Speaker 1 (02:14:14):
Yeah, so we're going to validate the fact that Christine
is an abusive whoror and she did not treat Michael well,
and she was abusive and he was a victim, although
and let's say and and also Michael's a fucking narcissist
who was a party to Natalia's abuse, and is trying

(02:14:37):
to say me being verbally abused and emotionally abused was
the same as you being verbally and emotionally abused and
as well being physically abused and tortured. Because I would
consider not giving getting her her operations and then not
taking care of her, I would consider that torture and
then leaving her by herself as a nine year old

(02:14:59):
to fend for herself. Like essentially, it's yeah, I literally
I think it goes beyond abius into torture. So Michael
says that he tried to leave her no less than
ten times, and ended up in the hospital regularly over it.

Speaker 4 (02:15:15):
Okay, which should have taken Italia with you to get
her surgery?

Speaker 1 (02:15:19):
But yeah, maybe you should have taken Italia when you like, hey,
carpool right, I'm so sorry. No, I think that's a
really fucking good point. So Natalia says, why did you
marry her? And Michael says that's a hell of a question.
And Italia asks Michael not to cuss, and I was like, wait,
when did he cuss? And then I was like, oh hell,

(02:15:39):
oh cuss. I was like I didn't hear kunt or
fuck like or tits? Bitch? Where where was the oh hell?
So Michael's like, I will do my best, but he
also gets snappy at Natalia because he's a bitch, and
Bishop Anton, Bishop Anchwin interrupts, saying, let's respect God in

(02:16:02):
this place. I know you probably talk like that on
a regular basis, but we try to keep a clean environment.
I get I'm okay, Bishop, yes, okay. Michael's lawyer interrupts
and he's like, yeah, so I'm not gonna tell you
not to be a Christian here, and you're not gonna
tell us to be fucking Christians And like obey by

(02:16:25):
your way of talking. And here, of course, I mean,
one thing you can count on Michael for is to
like really bring the drama.

Speaker 3 (02:16:40):
Oh just a whole bucket, just pouring down.

Speaker 1 (02:16:44):
Girl. He stands up with so much just ripping your
stuff off, drama. He's ripping the microphone off. He says,
probably ten times. I tried, and I'm gonna go back
from the microphone because I'm not gonna yell I tried,
I tried, I tried. I tried, I tried, I tried,

(02:17:05):
I tried.

Speaker 3 (02:17:08):
Spot on was that it was good? That was good?

Speaker 1 (02:17:12):
I'm that is not I was not. I wasn't overreacting,
you guys.

Speaker 3 (02:17:18):
It really isn't. It was a whole thing.

Speaker 1 (02:17:21):
It was Thank you, Joanna, she said, A plus performances
not so much awesome, then thank you. Michael's like frantically
walking around the room and Antoine's trying to talk to him,
and Michael's just like no, no, no, no no, and
is He's it's a you know, it's it was. We're

(02:17:42):
done with the I tried. Now we're on to know.
He storms out, Antoine storms with him, but Antoine's hot
on his heels. It's now they're in street.

Speaker 3 (02:17:53):
It's all right.

Speaker 1 (02:17:55):
The neighbors probably were like, what in the fresh hell
w E vacuumting the lawn?

Speaker 3 (02:18:02):
What?

Speaker 1 (02:18:02):
Nothing?

Speaker 3 (02:18:02):
Huh, who's here?

Speaker 1 (02:18:06):
So they're in the streets, they're taking it to the streets,
and Michael yells, if there was a god, he would
not do to me so about him, it's crazy, not
like not. He wouldn't do that to Natalia. If there
was a god, he would not do to me what happened.
He would let me die.

Speaker 4 (02:18:28):
As he gets into his little mazamiadis, Oh, I.

Speaker 1 (02:18:32):
Really wasn't a convertible, or am I just making that up?

Speaker 3 (02:18:35):
But no, it was.

Speaker 4 (02:18:35):
It was like a white convertible, his little hat on
with his curls behind him.

Speaker 1 (02:18:40):
It is the epitome of what gives such small dick energy.

Speaker 3 (02:18:47):
It's just douchey everything about him, Like unless you're.

Speaker 1 (02:18:50):
A chick or like a non binary person with like
a hot pink Barbie convertible, it's lame. Okay, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (02:19:00):
I always say you can't have all of these things
and be the way you are and where your hair
the way you are and be the shittiest person, Like
you got to pick one thing you have a great
personality and like our cool person I'll allow you to
drive a dick car, but like you can't have it all.

Speaker 1 (02:19:17):
You can't do?

Speaker 3 (02:19:19):
Is this not a buffet?

Speaker 1 (02:19:20):
I can't have no. Yeah, Michael is trying to He's
trying to do too much, is what I would say.
So Michael's like, get away from me, get away from me.
There's a lot of femininity I'm going to say in
his act.

Speaker 4 (02:19:36):
It is giving vibes of Yeah, it's that what people
say is feminine.

Speaker 3 (02:19:43):
Yeah, that like epitome of femininity. That is what it was.

Speaker 1 (02:19:46):
Yeah, that's it was like exactly what it was it was.

Speaker 3 (02:19:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:19:50):
I feel like Michael might have a lot of soul
searching and growing to do.

Speaker 4 (02:19:54):
And I think that it was there was a trigger
that happened there, that there was an an evidence trigger
that happened with him.

Speaker 3 (02:20:01):
I'm not saying it was like a trauma trigger.

Speaker 4 (02:20:03):
There was a trigger of like, oh my gosh, I
have to admit like where I've gone wrong or that
I'm bad or whatever, and he doesn't want to acknowledge
that side.

Speaker 1 (02:20:12):
Like oh, then you have a bunch of guilt and
shame to feel. I know, once you stop it being
only the victim and you realize you're the perpetrator too.

Speaker 3 (02:20:21):
Yeah, yep, yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:20:22):
Don't deal with your problems, don't efface it, head on,
run and jump into your dick car and drive off
with your curls flying in the wind.

Speaker 1 (02:20:31):
And of course Antoine's like, God loves you. And then
he says, we're not going to put up with no
spirits up in this house.

Speaker 3 (02:20:40):
And we weren't even at their house though they.

Speaker 1 (02:20:43):
Yet like no, it probably at an airbnb or something.
And of course, once again, Natalia is the fucking collateral
damage left in the house, confused, like what the fuck?
She's upset, she's crying, like, but it's it's yeah, and
that's the end. So we somehow I thought I was
like really nailing the time on that one, and it

(02:21:06):
took longer than the last one.

Speaker 3 (02:21:07):
I thought so too, but the comment just made his
top notch.

Speaker 1 (02:21:11):
It's you know what it was. I had fun though,
it was so good.

Speaker 4 (02:21:15):
I had so much fun, and I'm like, she's not
letting me back.

Speaker 1 (02:21:18):
Hold On says his look is giving that hello fellow kids, meme.
Oh but god, Michael is so serving Steve.

Speaker 3 (02:21:30):
If I haven't had a trophy. I would just give
it to.

Speaker 1 (02:21:34):
You, Cindy. You get the chat trophy is if you guys,
if you don't know what we're talking about, literally just
type in hello fellow kids and or maybe hello fellow kids. Steve.

Speaker 3 (02:21:47):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:21:48):
I don't know, but yeah, he's definitely giving that all
the way.

Speaker 3 (02:21:53):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (02:21:57):
Peggy said, yeah, he wants his kids back, but I's
a two seater. That's a great fucking point. Where's your
Miniva and Michael, It's oh, oh.

Speaker 3 (02:22:07):
Yeah, get ready so you can have them.

Speaker 1 (02:22:10):
Well, you guys, we have to go. I mean, we
got to like wrap this episode up, mostly literally because
my editor is gonna hate me.

Speaker 3 (02:22:18):
They're gonna say Chante is not welcome.

Speaker 1 (02:22:20):
No, it's okay, it's mostly me and I do.

Speaker 3 (02:22:22):
This and I but it's been a good time.

Speaker 1 (02:22:26):
It's been so much fun. I don't even know where
we are anymore. I know we're done with the episode.

Speaker 3 (02:22:31):
So I did it.

Speaker 1 (02:22:32):
Hey we did it, Yes, hell.

Speaker 3 (02:22:33):
Yeah did it.

Speaker 1 (02:22:34):
And the door guys for being here. We had like
twelve people, which Chante means you're pretty popular, because oh yeah,
that's a that's a pretty I mean, what I say
for us, so bring all that on Sunday. Yes, yes,
you guys want more of this like ash and chante,
because whether you want it or not, it's coming.

Speaker 3 (02:22:55):
It's coming.

Speaker 4 (02:22:56):
But also again I told you I taught eighth grade.
Say whatever you want about me, like, it's not gonna
hurt my feelings.

Speaker 1 (02:23:02):
Only say nice things about me, you guys, because I'm
incredibly thin skin I'm not and I shouldn't admit that
on the internet because trolls are mean.

Speaker 4 (02:23:11):
Well, luckily you're my friend, because I go to bat
me too.

Speaker 1 (02:23:15):
I actually like have almost a toxic trait of going
to bat of like I will it's coming. I will
try to wreck people like I will use what I
know about psychology to try to like ruin trolls. It's
it's free fucked. I'm like, this is toxic, Ashley, this
is this is really toxic behavior because I'm like, how
they make How can I use what I know to

(02:23:37):
make them feel as small as humanly possible? Since that's
everybody's worst nightmare. I can't believe I'm admitting this. I
should cut that cut that you guys. Oh God, we're
live turn out. I just don't believe people are mean
to my friends.

Speaker 4 (02:23:53):
Okay, I think that is a very very positive trait
in my opinion, because I want friends that got my
bat and then.

Speaker 3 (02:24:01):
Hurt somebody for back.

Speaker 1 (02:24:02):
You're back.

Speaker 4 (02:24:03):
Controls are an injustice, and so we're ready to fight
for injustice. Like, you don't call someone out unless it's
something that we're gonna be trouble.

Speaker 1 (02:24:11):
If we get together in person, we're just gonna fucking
walk around, fuck around.

Speaker 3 (02:24:16):
Fund out, come on, do it.

Speaker 1 (02:24:18):
I want you to starting fights and ship, like.

Speaker 3 (02:24:21):
Give me a reason. That's what are you looking at?

Speaker 1 (02:24:24):
I'm dmxaying like barking at people in the street. What's happening, Ashley,
I'm in I don't know. This has been so fun
you guys, thank you so much for coming.

Speaker 3 (02:24:37):
Yes and hank you Jesus trust me, I always does.

Speaker 1 (02:24:41):
It's been. It's been. It's been a marathon. We've been
they've been with us, some of some of youse guys.
Wows you use guys. I've been with us for like
three hours now. I love you guys. That's so fucking cool.
And now you don't have to watch it because watching
it's really depressing.

Speaker 3 (02:25:00):
It hurts a lot, and hearing.

Speaker 1 (02:25:02):
The synopsis from us is way less depressing, although I
do want to say, like, I think it's so important
for these women to be heard telling their own stories.
So I don't want to say, like, so don't watch
it because I already told you. But my main thing
is take care of your mental health. There it is
like I was gonna go support my friend Peggy's stream today,

(02:25:23):
Shout out Peggy. Her channel is Chaos in Curiosity in Chaos,
and she did a live this morning with our friend
Marilyn from Coffee, Cults and Crafts, and they were talking
about the documentary Let Us Pray about the Independent Fundamentalist
Baptist Cult. I was like, I would love to support

(02:25:45):
you guys, and I can't watch. I can't, Like I
have I have to talk about. I talked about Gypsy yesterday.
I'm talking about inn Italia later. And I'm sorry you guys.
I just can't come and listen to you talk about
fucking the independent fundamental As Baptists right now. I can't.
It's a lot because that one a lot of them,
A lot of it's going on in there.

Speaker 3 (02:26:06):
It's a good documentary, but it is.

Speaker 1 (02:26:08):
It's a lot. So it's the content lately has been heavy.
Like therefore a lot of the content that I've been
covering too, But just like the documentaries have been hitting,
they've been hard. I really hope they. I love documentaries. Actually,
I have been looking at the stream service streaming services though,
and it looks like February is going to cool down

(02:26:29):
as far as stuff that I'm like, I have to
cover that because as soon as Natalia and Gipsy and
hell Camp, which I actually covered but is out on
the YouTube but not the podcast. Did we sign off
of the podcast?

Speaker 5 (02:26:44):
No?

Speaker 1 (02:26:44):
No, no, they're gonna hate me, so fucking hold on. Okay,
let me just wonders that thought. Where where was I
was I saying?

Speaker 3 (02:26:51):
Hell Camp?

Speaker 1 (02:26:51):
Hell Camp? Hell Camp is about the troubled teen industry,
in particular wilderness therapy camps, which were pretty much started
by or mostly inspired by this guy, Steve Cartizano. And
the troubled teen industry is like immensely, immensely sad and
fucked as well.

Speaker 3 (02:27:10):
It's rough.

Speaker 1 (02:27:10):
So between like these three documentaries that have come out
that have been like I need to cover this, it's
so important. I'm also like, okay, let's talk about something less. Yeah,
after this is all wrapped up, like child abuse oriented.

Speaker 4 (02:27:26):
You need to after this is all wrapped up, you
need to like, yeah, get I'm going on.

Speaker 1 (02:27:30):
A vacation the eighteenth through the twenty ninth, and I'm
not recording. Good, don't worry, guys. Lots of content still
coming out, but.

Speaker 4 (02:27:37):
Like, yeah, maybe do a like a just a chill
episode for yourself.

Speaker 1 (02:27:43):
Too, some of that too, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:27:45):
Just a fun way after that?

Speaker 1 (02:27:47):
Oh yeah, oh fun okay in your podcast. Yeah on
the podcast. By the way, doctor Phil does send kids
to the troubled teen industry camps. You're right, it's fucked
fuck doctor Phil. We're actually going to do an episode
on Doctor Phil. I'm excited about.

Speaker 3 (02:28:00):
I can't wait for that.

Speaker 1 (02:28:01):
Yeah, it's gonna be good. Okay, guys, So podcast, let's
sign off. Yeah, okay, all right, everybody please go follow
the podcast at tsfthpodcast dot com. You can find all
of our social media and all the places you can
subscribe to us and Patreon and Bingo and all that

(02:28:22):
cool stuff, and you can subscribe to seante at.

Speaker 3 (02:28:27):
Oh you're letting me do it. Okay, I thought you
were going to finish that.

Speaker 1 (02:28:31):
Because it's very there's like all kinds of underscores and shit,
I know there's underscores. You better give the real you
better give the address.

Speaker 3 (02:28:38):
I think I can't. Yeah, the whole thing. I always
mess it up, So let me say it right a free,
I'm free strings.

Speaker 4 (02:28:47):
I'm all of this has underscores between each I know
it's so wornye. So now because you can't do anything
else now underscore, I'm underscore free underscore no underscore strings,
underscore on underscore me.

Speaker 1 (02:28:58):
That is who you gotta now, I'm free you no
sings crazy, I'm underscore. You know what the strings are?
Is you having fucking thirty goddamn characters or words plus
whatever you know?

Speaker 3 (02:29:10):
No, no, get it out, because you're doing great with
this whole roasting. That going well for you.

Speaker 1 (02:29:14):
That's the string. It's all those words that you have
in your title. Those are strings. Okay, I think I'm
too tired here efficiently roast yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:29:23):
Okay, also pits if you want to follow my personal account.

Speaker 1 (02:29:27):
Okay, I did just get I did just get it up.

Speaker 3 (02:29:29):
Though they always do it around me.

Speaker 1 (02:29:32):
Put a bump and that's our time full? Yes, thank you,
it really is though? Is that is our time? So?

Speaker 3 (02:29:38):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (02:29:39):
Yeah? Rate subscribe, listen if you're this for the podcast,
subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave
a rating of five stars if you love it, and
come on, you know you do, and then take like
thirty seconds to leave a review because it only takes
like thirty seconds and it's super actually super duper helpful.

(02:29:59):
So do all that and remember to catch us here tomorrow. No, well,
I'll be here, Chante won't. It'll be me and fallon
for episodes three and four, and then Chante's coming back
in hot for episodes.

Speaker 3 (02:30:12):
And I cannot wait.

Speaker 1 (02:30:13):
It's gonna be good. I can't wait either, because I
actually don't know what the fuck happens at the end
because it's killing me. It's oh my god, you know more,
and it's it's crazy. So it's not a cult. It's
just a podcast. But really it's so many documentaries and
it's a lot. And everybody take care of your mental health, okay.

Speaker 3 (02:30:34):
Like please for real, because it matters.

Speaker 1 (02:30:37):
Mental health matters. Hashtag by Finn Episode done awesome. Yes,
good you guys, thank you for being here in the chat. Yes,
that was it was a fun.

Speaker 4 (02:30:50):
Even if we don't well, I'm saying for me, even
if I'm not acknowledging comments on the side, they are
very very fun for me. Yeah, it's it's really so
thank you for the yeah page everybody.

Speaker 3 (02:31:01):
I did read every single one.

Speaker 1 (02:31:02):
And don't forget to like as Peggy p said, and
ye shout out to Peggy pee actually because she wrote
the notes on this episode. I did watch the episode,
but Peggy Peggy helped me with the heavy lifting and
did all the pausing and rewinding and all that good
stuff you do when you're writing down what's happening, like

(02:31:23):
frame by frame, because I don't summarize the documentaries because
the whole point is that if you listen to the episode,
you should be able to not have to watch the
documentary if you don't want to, because you've heard literally
everything that happens in it. Like, it's not a summary,
it's a play by play, which is why it takes
so long. But anyways, what am I talking about. I

(02:31:44):
don't know. I'm tired. Don't like you guys like subscribe.

Speaker 4 (02:31:49):
It's always so fun, right, I Mean, it's fun, but
it's also heavy. But it's fun and it's it's it
takes a lot of weight off of you.

Speaker 1 (02:31:57):
I couldn't aformagine telling all of this like straight and
being like all right, we'll have a good night, and
then just going and like I don't know, crying into
my pillow.

Speaker 4 (02:32:07):
Me personally, I've never done anything straight, so I couldn't.
I wouldn't know, you guys.

Speaker 1 (02:32:11):
If you missed, if you missed it earlier. I'm a lesbian, yeah,
and I'm not. And we we made it very clear
that it's not a choice because it's.

Speaker 3 (02:32:22):
A personality defect.

Speaker 1 (02:32:24):
Like, yeah, she tried to pray it away and I
tried to pray it towards me. I was like, come on,
just like it like vaginas. And then turns out everybody's
a nightmare though, so I just was like, you know,
she'd rather be near dick, so past just stay there
and be like past you.

Speaker 3 (02:32:46):
Lesbians united, Oh yes.

Speaker 1 (02:32:49):
There always you know she does the one eye, putting
it near your face. This has like gone more off
the rails than any other episode.

Speaker 3 (02:32:59):
So like our chemistry.

Speaker 4 (02:33:01):
It makes me very happy, you guys, because I when
I see that, I do love it. I run a
lot of webinars for work. I have to speak in
front of people a lot for work about work. Stuff
and it's just fun to have a little.

Speaker 1 (02:33:12):
Let it loose. Yeah, I'm like, Alicia's also a lesbian.

Speaker 4 (02:33:16):
Yay Alicia lesbians uno?

Speaker 1 (02:33:20):
I mean oh, and Alicia said she loves the chemistry
and Joanna agreed. So Chante, you got to come back.
I mean, you're already coming back on today, but we
should do more because I do a thousand episodes. I
love it and you should come be with me.

Speaker 3 (02:33:35):
It's fun.

Speaker 4 (02:33:35):
I've been speaking all day today. Since it's just a
part of my life.

Speaker 1 (02:33:39):
I generally kind of stopped talking actually unless it's to
my boyfriend, like unless I'm actively talking to people on
the podcast. Like, I don't interact with other humans that much.

Speaker 3 (02:33:51):
That's my job. I don't. I really want to do that.

Speaker 4 (02:33:54):
For I was at a perdue even today, like at
the Purdue University, and I was speaking in front of
room fulls of people, and it's just like, that's what
I do.

Speaker 1 (02:34:02):
What I do, and then you have to talk to
them after too.

Speaker 4 (02:34:05):
Yeah, because they all want it, they all want to
talk about it.

Speaker 1 (02:34:08):
I like talking to my friends on the internet about
very specific weird things. Luckily I found a way to
fucking do that. It's crazy so this is okay, very fun,
I real fun, and we're going to go. Thank you
guys for being here. Girls just are more fun, like
Sophia said, And but hey, I know we got some

(02:34:29):
of our boys on here. What's up Brendan? And I
know Alex was here and it was fun. All of
our non binary friends too, what's up? You know? Hey,
be gay, do crime, do whatever you want and we'll
see you next time. Just be fucking nice to people, Okay,
you guys, just seriously, like that's it. Be nice, love you,
don't be a dick. Bye bye

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