TSFU Ep. 169- PARRICIDE: The Menendez Brothers part II

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
It was cruel, more cruel to kind to Katy and
the boys, and then in public he would present himself
as this perfect husband and father.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
So that seems kind of common into the lives of
the super wealthy. Yeah, it's like you better fucking make
everything look real good on the outside. Like how they
fucking I think they've bottomized like one of the Kennedy Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
One of the sisters or daughters. Yeah, just because we
were embarrassed. That's it's so sad.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
It's sad, crazy little cuckoo. Just cut her brain out,
please so she doesn't talk anymore. That is so fucked up.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
It's fucked up. I'm so fucked up.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
It is just so damn fun.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
That's fucked up.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Hello everybody, welcome back to That's So Fucked Up, a
podcast about things that make you say, come on, aerono,
that's so fat up. I am your host, Ashley Love Richards,
and I am once again joined by one of our

(01:13):
lovely research assistants, Miss Aaron Collins hi Erin. Welcome back.
Hello as y'all probably hopefully now if you tuned in
last week, we are doing a Menandez Brothers episode, which
turned into a multi part episode well at least two,
I think just too. I think we'll wrap it up today.

(01:35):
But since it's not a story that's been covered in
the media, a.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Lot nobody knows about it, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
But I guess we wanted to give a really comprehensive
look of what the story has been for the past
couple decades versus what it has now kind of turned
into because of new understandings of no spoilies, you know.
So make sure you go back and listen to the
prior episode before you listen to today's. And yeah, just a

(02:08):
quick little recap. Last week we talked about Lyle and Eric,
their childhood, Jose Menendez, Kitty his wife, and they're really
fucked up dynamic, the alleged abuse that the boys went through,
everything up through the murder of Jose and Kitty and

(02:29):
the arrest of Lyle and Eric. Now today Aaron is
going to talk about the trials and where we're at today.
If y'all have not been playing murder Bingo, because I
didn't mention it last time, I don't remember. If I did.
Go to TSFU thepodcast dot com play with us, click

(02:50):
on murder Bingo and they're on the website. You can
also find links to all of our social media links
to all of our episodes Patreon on recommendations that I
have for cult cult entertainment, TV shows and movies. Not gonna,
I guess it's a pretty pretty bomb rex. But yeah,

(03:10):
go to TSFU thepodcast dot com and click play with
us and play murder Bingo because I don't know. I
think we can get it and it's fun. Are you ready?

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Erin? I'm ready?

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Are you ready ready as I'll ever be, lady?

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Okay, So we stopped, I think right when they got arrested,
so we were right up to the trial one. So
that's where we're going to start, just to.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Give a very thorough kind of reminder of where I ended.
On March eighth, nineteen ninety Lyle was arrested outside of
their Beverly Hills home. Eric then turned himself in three
days later when he returned to la from Israel. Both
were held separately without bail at the Los Angeles County Jail.

(03:55):
And that's where Aaron is picking it up. Take it away,
all right?

Speaker 1 (04:01):
So trial one. The trials officially began in July of
nineteen ninety three. This is the time where everything started
to be broadcast on Court TV, So this case was
really pivotal and showing people that were willing and wanted
to watch trials live. So this was a really big deal.
They had separate juries.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
After the twenty four hour news cycle started.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
This is when about the same time where that started.
So I think Pamela Smart was the first case where
it was broadcast and then so we're just now starting
to get into seeing all those trials and everything be
broadcast for everybody to see. So this was a really
big deal. Okay, there were two juries for this case
because each brother was being tried so that each one
had its own jury, which I thought was interesting. I

(04:44):
didn't realize that was a thing. So the brothers stated
that they killed their parents in self defense after a
lifetime of abuse, and prosecutors argued that they were in
it for the inheritance. They specified that their father constantly
projected emotional, psychological, and sexual abuse onto them. Their father
was described as a cruel, perfectionist and a pedophile. Their

(05:08):
mother was described as enabling, selfish, mentally unstable, alcoholic, and
drug addict who encouraged her husband's behavior. The only issue
with this trial that they couldn't decide is if the
tapes from Ozeal, remember Ozeal, could be played in court
or not. So that was a really big thing that
they had to I think it went all the way
up to the Supreme Court. I think you brought that
up last time we talked about that.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
I just remember, remind the listeners who or what Ozel?

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Doctor Ozell? Remember last week we talked about when he
they were ordered to go to therapy because they had
committed those robberies and Ozeal was who they had to
go see. So one of the brothers eyes.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Oh do you remember? And there he's the one that
they ended up telling the truth too exactly.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Yes, he was recording these confessions, which that's shady. First
of all, I know, I realized therapists will record and
write down their notes, but he was doing it for
himself because he wanted to write a book, and he
was also recording it so he could have something over them.
And he didn't He knew all this information and he
didn't tell the cops or anybody, which is kind of

(06:12):
that fine line, you know, almost like they'rest priest. You know,
it's this really shady gray line. So that's why it
went all the way up to the Supreme Court when
eventually it came out.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
And lawyers the whole lawyer's exactly yeah, agreement, exactly right. Also,
those people are generally mandated reporters, and that means if
you say that you have an active plan to hurt
yourself or someone else, that they have to tell somebody.
But I don't think that really works retroactively. Like I

(06:44):
killed somebody ten years ago and buried their body in
the backyard, I think they can't tell on you for that.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
So remember he was taping all these things, and in
the meantime, he had told his mistress, I forget her name,
I would have to go back and look.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, she was scared though, she was scared.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
And mind you, this was an old patient of his
that he started having an affair with. So again, hello
red flag.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Not a super ethical dude.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
No, not at all. Eventually she starts to see him
for how he is, and she's the one who ends
up calling the police and shedding light to this whole thing.
And then that's where it comes into play, where it
goes all the way up to the Supreme Court. So
if they can play these tapes or not, And in
the end, I think they were allowed to play two
or three, maybe one or two. I'm not sure how
many they were allowed to play, but it wasn't all

(07:29):
of them. It was only a couple. So that's a
quick recap on Ozell and what a nice person he
is because he kind of plays a big role, so
it's important to kind of know, you know, what's going
on with him. Going back to sexual abuse allegations, so
this is obviously played a really big part in trial.

(07:51):
One Lyle alleged that his father began abusing him at
age six, but stopped without explanation at age eight. Eric
alleged he was abused from a six all the way
through adulthood. Eric also testified two weeks before the murders
that he told Lyle about the sexual abuse he was experiencing,
which led to multiple confrontations within the family. Both brothers

(08:12):
testified that their father had threatened to kill them if
they did not keep the abuse a secret or this
is what they considered a death threatn and as a result,
that's when they went out and purchased the shotguns, which
they said was for protection and self defense. So the
boys told the court that Jose closed the dense door
once they entered, and they described that was unusual. They
testified that they were afraid from that moment on and

(08:34):
that it is what led them to go outside and
complete their plan of killing their parents. They believed that
Jose would kill them before he let the abuse scandal
be exposed. The prosecution argued that the sexual abuse allegations
were completely fabricraated. No abuse was mentioned until seven months
after the murders, so that was their big contentions. This

(08:55):
was completely made up. It was also mentioned that sexual
abuse was never discussed in the tapes at all.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Wait really, what wait? Hold on what?

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yes, that's what in the tapes that were played. That
was never discussed in the tapes. And that's what doctor
Ozil had said.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
But only a few tapes were allowed to be played.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Correct, right, and that's what doctor Oziel saying. So again no, wa.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Wait, doctor Ozel is saying that yes they did talk
about getting abused, or no they didn't.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
They didn't. They did not, right, They only complained about
their father and stated how suicidal their mother was.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
And I feel like if they tell him about the murder,
they're being pretty honest with him. Dude.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
It's a hard one.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
We have an episode coming up about Mary Bell, And
that's a really tough one for me too, when this
really intense childhood abuse goes on, at least, you know,
verifiably in Mary Bell's case. But it's just hard to
justify the actions in my mind. But I also know

(10:03):
that it's more nuanced than that. Ah, these these cases
of these very young killers, they're hard for me to
wrap my head around.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Because it's not it's not black and white. It's just
it's just not.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Jurors were also told that Lyle and Eric are capable
of lying frequently and in great detail because they were
just trying to avoid death sentences. They staged the nine
to one one call, which was also played for the jury,
with the intention of showing what great actors they were.
I don't know if you've heard this, but it's a
pretty well known call. You can hear them screaming in
the background.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
No, I don't ever listen to nine one one calls. Actually,
it just no shade all to anybody else. It just
it feels very I don't know, it makes me uncomfortable,
especially if it's truly the worst moment of somebody's life.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
They get picked apart so much and yeah, you know,
you don't know how any one person is going to
react in that moment, so.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Great, and there's I mean, there's not a wrong or
right reaction.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, people's reactions when a loved one has been killed
or hurt or whatever gets so scrutinized. Oh they're crying
too much, Oh they seem too cold.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Or they're not crying enough, or I mean it's just
it's it's never it's always just nitpicked so much.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah, So I think that's kind of why I'm just like, right.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
So for that instance, it's the same thing. You can
hear him screaming in the background. So is he screaming
because he did it? Or is he putting on an act?
It's just kind of that which one is it so?

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Or is it a combination of both screaming because you
did it and also trying to fucking hype it up
a little bit just to you know, make sure it's
definitely believable.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
There were a lot of detail that went into the sexual,
you know, stuff that was going on between the father
and Eric testified later that he would put cinnamon in
his father's tea and coffee to make his seamen taste better.
I mean, I mean, that's a very specific detail, do
you know what I mean? It's very that was disputed

(12:04):
because cinnamon is a noticeable flavor. Why was I mean, seriously,
that was disputed.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
I didn't. Yeah, that is a weird detail. So just
essentially basic male male abuse.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, just the worst thing you can think of. And
that's what it is. That's all, and that's all you
need to know. California law made it so the brothers
could be acquitted for manslaughter, but only if they could
prove that they were in danger or leading with self defense.
But the prosecution argued there was no evidence of this,
and they argued that this was contradicted by the brothers

(12:41):
buying the shotguns in advance. The taped conversations between the
brothers and their therapists were used when they stated where
they stated that they had planned the murders beforehand. In
this case, the prosecution argued that the murders were inconsistent
with self defense because Lyle reloaded his shotgun before he
killed Kitty. Remember, he shot her, reloaded again, and then

(13:01):
shot her again.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
It was I mean, generally, guns aren't known as one
of the more personal ways of killing but the way
that they killed her with the guns was very fucking personal.
And if you don't know what we're talking about, make
sure I'll listen to the first episode, you guys.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
They also argued that if it was self defense, they
most likely would have injured their parents and then got
out of the house. They wouldn't have gone to the
extremes that they did, so part of the evidence.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Right, but I mean it's self defense, not in the
moment self defense and like overall life.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Part of some evidence that was presented. Lyle and Eric's cousin,
Diane vander Mullin, testified that during a stay with the
family in the mid seventies, Lyle confided and heard that
his father was sexually abusing him. She claims that she
told Kitty about the incident shortly after it happened, but
Kitty sided with her husband and accused Lyle of lying.

(13:58):
Lyle was then sent up stairs and the incident was
never spoken of again.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Fuck you Kitty, which kind.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Of shows you how Kitty thought of everything. Diane said
she never saw any sexual abuse, but she did notice
a change in jose and Kitty during her stays with them.
There was a difference between her stay in seventy six
and eighty three. Jose was very strict and dominant for
the rest of the family. Kitty would fly into rages
if anyone did anything wrong, and during these rages, she
would flail her arms and get inches away from people's faces.

(14:29):
Diane said these rages would happen weekly, and she stated
in court that Kitty threatened to throw Diane and her
things out on the street and doesn't care that their family.
All of this was for not meeting Kitty's standards, so
again that goes into how Kitty was being portrayed. She
also stated that there was a difference between how Kitty
and Jose would act inside and outside the home. Kitty

(14:50):
would be frustrated at home and overwhelmed with life, unhappy,
frustrated in the home, trying to balance everything. However, when
she's outside in the world, she's this fake persona you know,
perfect wife, mother, happy, all blah blah blah. Jose was
clearly the head of the household, would criticize be little
everyone around him. He was cruel, more cruel to kind
to Kitty and the boys, and then in public he

(15:10):
would present himself as this perfect husband and father, so.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
That seems kind of common in the lives of the
super wealthy. Yeah, it's like you better fucking make everything
look real good on the outside. Like how they fucking
I think they lebottomized one of the Kennedy Yes.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
One of the sisters or daughters. Yeah, just because they
were embarrased. That's it's so sad. It's the sad story.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
Crazy little cuckoo. Just cut her brain out, please so
she doesn't talk anymore. It's terrible wild.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
According to o'ziell's statements, he said they didn't kill their
parents for money, but rather out of hatred and out
of desire to be free from their fathers impossible standards.
The defense consultant Anne Burgess argued that Ozio was manipulative
and controlling. She believed that he directed many of the
conversations statements made by the brothers, and o'zill's ex also

(16:03):
agreed that he wanted to control the brothers by taping
their sessions, which is kind of what we knew. He
was taping it for his own gain. But was he controlling,
you know, was he leading them on in their statements?
That's kind of a question.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
You know, cases where there's therapeutic abuse. It's pretty wild
because those people are supposed to be super trustworthy. And
did you ever listen to the podcast or watch the
mini series? I think it was called The Therapist next
Door about this therapist con man who fucking just totally
fucks over one of his patients entire life. It's crazy.

(16:39):
Look it up when you have some tang.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
I think I did, and that I think they made
a show about it, didn't they? Did he do a
show about it? Yeah? On Apple? I think so, Yes,
we did watch it and then I yes, it was
Oh my god, that was messed up.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, that one's crazy.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
So I mean definitely therapists can be in the role
of power.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
I think Will Barrel was in the show if I
remember right. It was on Apple. It was really good.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
There was also an attempt to allow remember the screenplay
that Eric wrote that was very similar to how it
ended up. Those screenplay he wrote where it was about
a murder. I think he went over that. So there
was an attempt to allow that screenplay in as evidence,
but the judge ruled against it because he said the
play was written too long before the shootings and it
didn't have any relevance so it wasn't allowed in. At

(17:30):
the conclusion of this first trial, both juries, one for
each brother was deadlocked. So months of deliberations, it was
a mistrial and it was immediately announced that the brothers
would get a new trial. So that was trial one. Okay,
Trial two started October nineteen ninety five. The second trial begins. Now,

(17:51):
big differences between the first trial and the second trial
because right at opening statements eight days before, OJ was acquitted.
So think about out where we were at as a
society and everything that was going on, especially in California everything.
So OJ's just acquitted and now Menendez is getting their
second trial. Nobody cared about the Menendaz at the moment.

(18:13):
Oh oh you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Okay, right, because OJ was OJ was the news, right,
I think I think last time I was saying, I
remember fucking watching the White Bronco on team. Ye, yes,
I remember that shit. I don't remember caring about this.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
I mean I didn't even remember them having two trials
because I only remember the first trial. OJ clouded everything.
I didn't know they had a second trial because you
didn't hear anything about it. I knew nothing about this.
Their big difference between the two trials. Is no cameras
allowed in the second trial, So that's another reason you
didn't hear anything about it. That wasn't televised. Their manslaughter

(18:49):
was taken off the table. The sexual abuse claims and
evidence was banned, so they couldn't they could not say
any of that.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
It manslaughter was taken off the table, meaning it was
either going to be not guilty or murder correct known between.

Speaker 1 (19:03):
Okay, So they said the sexual abuse claims was too
remote or cumulative, so couldn't bring it up, couldn't talk
about it. They limited the number of witnesses the defense
could call, so the first trial they had over like
one hundred and one witnesses. They limited it to sixty
four in this trial. So they just cut it way down.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
They damn dude, I never had any idea like how
many witnesses could be in a trial. That's so fucking me.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Remember we had two juries in the first trial, one
for each brother. We have one this trial. Just one
jury and a big one too. Is Lyle did not testify.
He did not testify. Doctor Ozil was also not called.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
So in this trial they're just getting tried as one person.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, the main reason that Lyle is not testifying because
he was alleged that he's asking witnesses to lie on
the witness stand. It was alleged that he had asked
a former girlfriend to take the stand and lie to
fabricate a story about Jose making a pass at her,
who was said that he promised her a bunch of
money if she did this, so that came out. It

(20:08):
was also alleged that this there's a Tracy Baker who
received a letter from Lyle outlined in his story to
detail about the family, but she didn't want to do it.
The judge didn't allow this letter to be admissible for
the second trial, but it is material which makes it
impeachable if Lyle takes the stand. So that's why he
didn't take the stand.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
I feel like you just spoke fucking Latin to me,
but it wasn't.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Impeachable lawyer talk.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, fuck dude. That's why they have lawyers, because they
make this shit impossible for regular people to understand. Rude.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Well, he wrote this letter to her and asked her
to lie on the stand. But the letter didn't have
a date, it had no name, and it was a
partial letter, a handwriting expert said it was him, but
they couldn't prove that it was him. But if he
took the stand, he could be impeached if he So
he didn't take the stamp.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
What does impeach mean? I only know what that means
in regards to like a president.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
It's if you're lying on the stand and you're what
is that in contempt of court? And the same thing perjury, perjury.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
There you go, there you go, we're like, you know
the thing.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
There was also a Norma Novelli who published a book,
The Private Diary of Lyle Menendez, and she printed the
transcripts of all her conversations with Lyle during and prior
to the first trial, including detailing out the Tracy Baker story.
So all this there was just a bunch of bad
stuff about Lyle. So he wasn't allowed to take the
stand period, all of that, everything that wasn't allowed In

(21:39):
the second trial. On April nineteen ninety six, they're found
guilty of first degree murder and conspiracy to murder after
sixteen hours of deliberation. Here's something interesting, and I don't
think we've brought her up, which I apologize. So Leslie
Abramson is their lawyer. She's under scrutiny in the penalty
phase for the second trial because it came out that

(21:59):
US psychologist treating Eric admitted on the stand that he
was asked by her to alter his notes, which you can't.
Kind of can't do.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
That, leslie. That's a little sketchly.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
He was asked court allegedly he was asked to remove
anything incriminating from his notes by her. So she takes
the fifth and refuses to answer questions regarding why the
notes are different, but the judge rules she can remain
on the case. So explain that one to me.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Generally, when it comes to the judicial system, I'm pretty
baffled most of the time. Yeah, riddle me this, because
I don't fucking know why they ever do what they do.
The voodoo that you do is so.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
Both brothers they file a mistrial due to the misconduct
and they're denied. But if she's altering the notes, like
that's just shady to me, So they're denied. She gets
to stay on the case. July nineteen ninety six, they're
sentenced to life with the possibility parol. The brothers are
separated at this time and sent to different prisons. It's
the first time they're separated. So Eric goes to Fullsome.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Well, they were separated at first, and they first got arrested,
they were jailed separately, were they okay at first?

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Okay at least?

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
So Eric goes to Fullsome and Lyle goes to Mule
Creek Prison. Another big thing that they say with the
second trial is, especially because of OJ is that the
DA needed this win and that's a big part of
why they were convicted as well.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
So the conspiracy theories, it, I mean, well, in regards
to this case in particular, I don't know, but I
know that absolutely people's fate is determined often by what
by politics.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
So they just had Rodney King and they want to.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Show that they're tough on crime or whatever, you know exactly.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yep. So this was a big case that they really
wanted to show, Hey, we're sending these guys away.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Uh huh, yeah, uh okay.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
That's a lot for that. So moving on to their
prison life, all their appeals were denied. Throughout their prison life,
the Supreme Court denied the review of the case. Everything
was denied. Eric worked with terminally ill patients. He's counsels
those who also suffered abuse. He teaches speech classes. He

(24:21):
has met Tammy Secomen. That sounds right. Started writing Eric
after the first trial and met in nineteen ninety nine
and they married in nineteen ninety nine. She wrote a book,
they said, We'd Never make it. My life with Eric
Menendez Lyle. He's been serving an inmate government while he
was at Mulk Creek. He also works in prison reform.

(24:43):
He also counsels and helps those who suffered abuse. He
married Rebecca Snead in two thousand and three. That's his
second marriage. His first marriage was to Anna Erikson in
nineteen ninety six, but they divorced five years later. I
do think Eric is still married to Tammy Lyle. I
have breaking news, breaking news.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Breaking news, breaking breaking.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
Rebecca for Lyle. She just announced that the two have
been separated for some time. This all this breaking news
keeps coming out, and this came to light.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
And here we are you guys giving it.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, this came to light when it was reported that
Lyle was having a relationship with a younger woman because
he had a hidden burner phone where he could communicate
with her. I mean, this's probably four weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
How are these motherfuckers getting more ass than you know,
non murderers out here in the world. All these sad
people on Tinder, I'm one of them. I mean, I
deleted my tender, but it's sad. It's sad there. You guys.
If you want a girlfriend or a wife or you
know whatever, just get your ass to present.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Woman really like that. So they made this out to
be this huge scandal on the internet, which I thought
was funny. And his wife came out and she's like, listen,
we were actually separated, and it's fine, it's not that
big a deal, so calm down. So I thought that
was funny because she was like, no, it's not that

(26:10):
big a deal. So conjugal or family visits are allowed
as of twenty sixteen, which I thought was interesting. However,
they're not allowed for prisoners convicted of a violent crime.

Speaker 2 (26:21):
So not for them everybody else but not that okay.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
So in twenty eighteen, the brothers were finally reunited, so
that Lyle had.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Been uhaded in if feels so good. It's the first
time I sang in this episode.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
I know it took you a while.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
I know that somebody out there was upset and wondering
where is it? And somebody out there was going, ooh,
maybe she won't this time, or maybe I will.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
That's not possible.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Those people stop listening and just leave a bad review whatever.
Speaking of you guys, leave a good review please.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
So Lyle had been requesting to be closer to his
brother ever since they were separated, and now they're housed together.
There are Group A prisoners, which allows most privileges for
receiving calls and visits from loved ones. Those inmates each
receive a tablet with access to news and emails, no
Internet browser, social media, but they're able to make phones
and calls and texts. So they're just you know, chilling

(27:15):
in jail and they can call and text whoever they want.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Sounds like kind of like my life texting people. Not
really though, just watching TV mode.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Let's go over additional evidence because it's come up. They're
new lawyer, Mark Ggagos. That sounds good.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
Gagos Gurga Ghosts, ghosts. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
There's a documentary. I think it's on Maybe it's on
Peacock about Menudo.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
Or Netflix or Hulu, yeah, or one of them, Disney
or Apple or oh my god, there's too many and it's.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yeah, it is on Peacock. It's Menendez plus Menudo boys betrayed.
Have you seen that?

Speaker 2 (27:58):
Huh uh.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
I'm not going to go into a lot of the
details because that's a whole separate story with the Menudo
and the Menudo Brothers, Menudo band and all that. But
the additional evidence is so Roy Roussella was a former
member of the Menudo and.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
He alleges that was Ricky Martin.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yes, so he alleges that he too was molested by
and raped by Jose.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Was he also in tennis or was.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Remember Jose was in the music industry?

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Oh right, okay, yes, uh huh so, which, as we
know with all the Diddy stuff is pretty fucking sketched.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Right. So Roy claims that he was molested by Jose
and his manager. He was thirteen at the time, and
he was brought to Jose's home by his manager, who
was also an amuser. He was given wine, passed out.
He woke up to a hotel in pain and bleeding.
It's a very intense documentary, but it's it's it's very good,
but there's a lot to the whole Menudo story. May

(28:55):
of twenty twenty three lawyers file and asked the courts
to reconsider the conviction do to this new evidence from
the former member of the boy band, because remember they
couldn't let any of that sexual abuse stuff into the
second trial. Well now they're saying, hey, we have proof.
It's right here. There's also additional evidence now of an
abuse letter from an Andy Kino. Eric wrote a letter

(29:17):
to his cousin Andy about his father and the abuse
eight months before the killings. Andy's mother found the letter
after Andy passed away. So they have this letter.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
How did Andy pass away?

Speaker 1 (29:28):
I think he was sick. I mean, it wasn't anything
like I think he had some sort of illness, Okay,
if I remember correctly. So the letter was only found
you know so many this many years ago and entered
into evidence. So there's another piece of evidence that corroborates
you know, this abuse was going on. They want all
that entered into evidence, and hey, reopen this present day.

(29:50):
Why is this case so popular right now? So the
main thing is TikTok brought new awareness to the case.
They're going and looking at the case with a new
open mind. They're going through the footage, trial videos and
social media influencers are starting to get try to get
the case open out. Have you seen any of the
TikTok videos or anything.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
No, I only go to TikTok to see what's really
weird and disturbing.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
But there was also another documentary I think maybe it
was on Discovery, which isn't my favorite, but no, I know,
but it was pretty good and they went over how
all the TikTok people were coming up with videos on
menandaz and bringing it to light. And also, I think
it's important too, like the changes in the passage of
time with this renewed awareness of the sexual assault in

(30:39):
general and the me Too movement and all that that's
going on, because this is I mean, this is disturbing.
This is what was said during the trial. Boys can't
be raped because they lack the sexual equipment. Was actually
said during the first trial by the prosecution. Can you
imagine if that was said today? Can you imagine?

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Okay, you guys have just think I mean right, just
like my face, I'm speechless and I've I've talked quite
a bit on the show in the last probably a
year or so about how men and boys are very
often victims of sexual assault and this is something that
is only just starting to be talked about, because that

(31:20):
fucking used to be how people thought. I'm sorry, boys
can't be raped, like that's insane.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
That's the most insane thing. Like, I mean, this is
because the joy Scouts, right, they lack the sexual That's
what they literally said that, And most people thought they
were acting on the stand. Now it's seeing that they
were relieving their trauma. That's how it's seen. If you
go back, there were Saturday Night Live. Everybody was making
fun of them during that time, skits all over on

(31:49):
Saturday Night Live. I mean it was Saturday Night Live
and late night shows had several skits mocking them. Kathy
Griffin would stand on the steps of the courthouse and
make jokes, jokes daily, many inappropriate, and mocking their trauma.
I mean it was a daily every day. After I'll
tell you how she's feeling now, because here's an interesting

(32:11):
little side story. Eric sent Kathy Griffin a painting of herself,
which I thought was kind of funny. And she has
gone on now to talk on Larry King and likes
to show off this painting and talk about how she
feels bad about how she used to.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
Oh, okay, she does have some yeah remarks.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
I mean, with the stuff that was said, it's just
it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
I mean, we have still such a long way to
go with yes, understanding sexual trauma and supporting victims and
survivors in the correct way. But holy fuck, some strides
have been made in comparison to that shit.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Oprah had a show where two hundred men stood together
each to say they were molested, and this was aired
in November of twenty ten, and that was groundbreaking at
the time. That was twenty ten. I mean, we're just
starting to talk about this stuff. Lawyers, you know, they're
following all these sorts of habeas corpus petitions is one

(33:16):
thing that they're trying to move forward with. So this
was filed for new evidence that was not presented at trial.
Those new items that I talked about, the Menudo stuff
and the letter, So there was one that was filed
in May of twenty twenty three for the new evidence.
Original respondent was supposed to be November twenty sixth. Guess

(33:36):
what date it is now. However, it's now been pushed
to December twentieth. Well, that's past.

Speaker 2 (33:42):
It's December thirtieth as of this recording. You guys, because
they're probably like when and where in time are you?
We are currently as of this recording, it is December thirtieth.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Lawyers also point out how evidence of sexual abuse was
not allowed at the second trial because the prosecution claimed
the brothers were making it all up and nothing was
ever proven. So abeas corpus, they also want to try
for resentencing. District Attorney George Gasconn filed a fifty seven
page motion on October twenty fifth to remove the brothers
current scene of life in prison. He was recommending that

(34:16):
it being converted to fifty years of life for murder,
which would make them both immediately eligible for parole. The
hearing was set for November twenty fifth, it was pushed
to late January due to administration changes. The hearing ends
up approved, they go to the parole board where everybody
would speak on their behalf includes victims, family brothers. Twenty
four family members have already come forward supporting their release. However,

(34:40):
they have an uncle, Milton Anderson, and he does not
want them released. He's one that's very much against this.
Once parole is approved, the final decision goes to the governor. However,
again breaking news, breaking, breaking, breaking news because we just
had an election, and we're all very excited about that election, right, So,

(35:00):
so District Attorney George Gascon he was did not he was,
He's gone. He recommended the resentencing for the brothers. He
lost his reelection. So now we have Nathan Hawkmann is
the new district attorney, and he's dating. He needs to
get familiar with the case before making decisions or recommendations.
And he just took office as of the second of December.

(35:23):
So he's been really critical of the previous administration, stating
that everything they're doing was all for publicity. He has
also said that the previous Gascon was too soft on crime.
He's already gone in and started rescinding some of the
directives that were already in place. So everybody's kind of
on edge if this is even going to happen anymore.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Oh dude, that would be so intense kind of waiting
on basically political shit to decide your fate.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
And he also just removed the two deputies who were
part of the post conviction for the Menendez charges. He
just removed them from office. He just said, guys are gone.
I just read as of three days ago. Their new
lawyer the Menandez new lawyer is putting in a is
allegedly putting in a petition to the LA Court to
transfer the case to the California Attorney General's office because

(36:13):
he doesn't want this guy looking at it, because I
don't think he thinks it's going to go anywhere.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
So looks like we might have to do an update.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, every day I get a new update and I'm like,
I haven't recorded yet. I keep adding. And the final
thing they can do is clemency. Is a request to
the governor for clemency. So as of October twenty eighth,
the brothers filed with Governor Newsom. November seventh was the
first date he could address the application, which of course
is now passed because the governor is now deferring to

(36:44):
the new DA. Just to end it, both brothers don't
deny killing their parents, and they say they regret it
every day. Lyle stated, this tragedy will always be the
most astounding and regrettable thing that has ever happened in
my life. He said, you can't escape the memories, and
I long ago stopped trying. Eric stated, I wanted to
go back in time. I wanted to take everything back

(37:05):
that Lyle and I did. That's all I got. What
do you think, dude, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
I don't what do you think. I think it's Aaron
and I both have the same exact position. We both
have our our hand up to our forehead and the
same exact position. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
Hold on, let me think about this. When did they go.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Into prison ninety six? Here's what I think. I think
if they were tried now, it would be almost like
a Ded Blanchard and you know what, that type thank you?
And she got ten years, right, I know she, but
you know.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
Yeah, but like fuck, dude in her mind, I know
for sure gonna kill right.

Speaker 1 (37:52):
But he was sexually abusing him to that extent. I don't.
I just I think they would be out by now.
If they were tried now, I don't think a would
go at all like it went then, and maybe they
would only get ten years.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
So I think that they were absolutely guilty of heinous murder.
But I think at this point, having served what twenty
eight years, I'd say they've done their time. And usually
when they re examine or parole. The question is are
they a danger to society. I don't think Lyle and

(38:26):
Eric were a danger to anybody, but there are parents
and they're out of the picture now. I don't know.
I don't know if I can say what they went
through justified their actions. But I think at this point
they've done the time for their crime, and if anything,
you know, it's good that a big case like that
is just shedding some light on sexual abuse against boys

(38:49):
and men. What do you think? What do you think?

Speaker 1 (38:51):
I think at this point they should just be so
ug good too. I know I am, because it's not
easy and they did plan it and they did law.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
But also I've been pretty hardcore gypsy Rose Stan forever.
That was some killer be killed because she also was premeditated, and.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
I kind of see it almost this. I mean, yeah,
he had all the money, he was not going to
let them leave. He was controlling. I mean, it's just
a different method of control from what she did. It's
easy to say, yeah, you can leave, you could just leave.
It's easy for us to say that we weren't in it. Well.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
To be fair, though, it would have been a lot
easier for the Menendez brothers to leave them for Gypsy
to leave.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yes, absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Gypsy had like no proof of even being a fucking human, right, Yeah,
I don't know, you guys, I think once again, the
conclusion is that shit is not black and white. It's
pretty gray. It's nuanced. Sometimes I just don't know what
to say, you know, that's all folks like, yie, well thanks, Aaron.

(40:05):
You know, guys, let us know what you think. Let
us know what you think. We love to hear your thoughts.
It's obviously a pretty nuanced story. It's it's a pretty
big right now. And the well, I don't is it
still big in the night.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
I keep getting updates like I just got that update
the other day about him refiling, So yeah, it's still
because everybody's waiting to see what's going to happen, if
they're going to get let out.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Leslie Van Houghton's fate also, for quite some time rested
in Gavin Newsom's hands. I don't think I like that, dude.
I'm not sure. I don't know, but yeah, let us
know what you guys think, and tune in next week
for something else weird and wild. I don't even fucking know.
And Aaron, that was real as fun guys, I totally

(40:54):
forgot to play murder bingo.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Oh yeah we did again.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
I feel like I got it. No bum boom boom
boom boom boom, that's what got it. Job so fucked up,
can't you see?

Speaker 1 (41:09):
It was just really perfect. That's what them

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TSFU Ep. 169- PARRICIDE: The Menendez Brothers part II

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