February 7, 2025 • 45 mins
This week Ash is joined by Alecia Watson from Twisted and Uncorked! Alecia tells Ash about the murder of 15 year old Elyse Pahler at the hands of three teenaged boys who wanted to be more successful with their metal band. Don't tell us that Satanic Panic didn't exist!
Check out Alecia's podcast Twisted and Uncorked here and follow the pod on IG- they actually post stuff!
✨Please consider supporting us on Patreon, for early ad-free content and so much more for as little as $5 a month!
🩷Or make a one time donation on Buy Me a Coffee!✨
👾We have an amazing community of friends and fans on Discord and it's open to everyone
🕸️Visit That's So Fcked Up's Website: https://tsfuthepodcast.com/
📸TSFU on IG: https://www.instagram.com/tsfuthepodcast/
👀Ash on IG: https://www.instagram.com/ashleyloverichards/
📲Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thats-so-fcked-up/id1508752329
🎧Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2zo86q0aYvNSg8prn1k73N?si=590fae149eb24218
-Audio editing by Ryan Truby.
-Research and storytelling by Alecia Watson.
Check out Alecia's podcast Twisted and Uncorked here and follow the pod on IG- they actually post stuff!
✨Please consider supporting us on Patreon, for early ad-free content and so much more for as little as $5 a month!
🩷Or make a one time donation on Buy Me a Coffee!✨
👾We have an amazing community of friends and fans on Discord and it's open to everyone
🕸️Visit That's So Fcked Up's Website: https://tsfuthepodcast.com/
📸TSFU on IG: https://www.instagram.com/tsfuthepodcast/
👀Ash on IG: https://www.instagram.com/ashleyloverichards/
📲Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thats-so-fcked-up/id1508752329
🎧Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2zo86q0aYvNSg8prn1k73N?si=590fae149eb24218
-Audio editing by Ryan Truby.
-Research and storytelling by Alecia Watson.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
And they were known to be the trouble around town.
They were big into Satanism, but not in the cool
way that doesn't actually involve the devil at all, but
in the scary worship.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The devil kind of way.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
They even went as far as to buy authentic cards
on the Internet to show their allegiance to the devil.
And I'm pretty sure they spent around one hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
He loves just getting homage paid to him via.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yes, yes, the money is going directly to him in fact,
you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
That is so fucked up. It's fucked up, so fucked up,
it is just so damn fuck. That's fucked up. Me me, me,
me me, Oh shit, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I'm glad I'm not the only one that does stuff
like that before recording.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Oh yeah, it's like high editors. You know, I'm here.
I hate going in just cold, it feels so weird. Hey,
I don't know, so, Hey we are here. We're here
to podcast. This is That's So fucked up, a podcast
about cults, crimes and other things that make you say, ugh,
(01:18):
that's so fucked up. I'm your host, Ashley Love Richards,
and today I am joined by my very special guest
co host Alisha, would you like to introduce ussel Hi?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, I am Alisha Watson. I am one half of
the Twisted and Uncorked podcast. We do truly twisted topics
every Tuesday, much like my beautiful friend Ash here. We
do cults, conspiracies, true crime, all that crazy stuff, a
lot of hauntings. So if you're interested in her show,
you'll definitely love us.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yes, absolutely, they can find you on the webs, the
social media.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
The everywhere. Twisted and Uncorked.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Or apper sand ampersand.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
And and we took out the appress and because we
thought it looked pretty, but it was making it hard
seo search wise for us.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah. So as much as we love a literary.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Beautiful picture of something, it just wasn't working for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
For sure, sometimes you gotta go function over form. Well,
you guys, I apologize for my scratchy voice. I've been
kind of biting off. I think it's just a little
cold because I feel fine, but I've been sleeping a
ton and have a really stuff he knows, and now
I have this oh or I don't know. Is it sexy?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
It is? It's giving, Like Phoebe Buffet sexy smelly Cat right.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Now, Melly Cat, Melli Cat? What are they?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
This is why I podcast and don't sing myself. But
that was quite good.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
You know, some people are here for the singing. Some
people are not. Somebody left a review I can't with
the singing. It's every episode and it sounds like drunken
care and it's too much. Well, if you don't like it.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And I guess I'm not for you, I'm not for.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
You because I like singing. The best way to spread
Christmas cheer is to sing loud for all to year.
I just watched alf recently.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'm obsessed with that movie, so I one hundred percent
support that.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
What's your favorite Christmas movie? I mean, it is maybe
February by the time this comes out, but you.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Know what, we haven't seen each other since then, so
you know it's fine. My favorite movie is Nightmare Before Christmas.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I love it so so much, and I watch it
every Halloween and every Christmas. But my favorite traditional Christmas
movie would probably be How the Grinchetal Christmas. The Jim
Carrey one.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Oh, that is a good one. You know, he had
to go through six hours of makeup or shit every day.
Yeah crazy yeash, speaking of going through six hours of
makeup every day. I don't think that would be very comfortable.
I don't think it would be great for my mantle.
How Alicia and I were talking right before we press
to record about how probably the best thing that happened
(04:03):
to me last year was getting diagnosed and medicated for ADHD,
because I didn't realize how much of my depression and
anxiety was stemming from that, mostly task paralysis, a lot
of other shit just wandering mind. It's really funny because
I joke that the Listener's crowd sourced my ADHD diagnosis.
(04:25):
It never would have dawned on me until ten of
y'all breached out over time, being like, hey, super lovingly,
you might want to check it out. And then I
went to my doctor and not with some fucking be
well article or whatever, armed with information from the DSM
five and was like, so this is the criteria I
(04:47):
meet nine out of thirteen or whatever. So we were
just talking about how important it is to advocate for
your own mental health, well your own health in general. Also,
I was talking to my friend who went to physicians
assistant school. He was talking about how they're trained to
do thirty minutes per patient. Ten of that is looking
(05:08):
over their chart fingering out what's going on. Ten minutes
is supposed to be actually talking to you, and then
ten minutes of paperwork and whatnot. They are trained not
to ask you what's wrong or whatever, but to go
in there having already been informed by the nurse or
whatever about what's going on, and then they say, okay,
so this is what I think is wrong. They're not
(05:31):
really trained to listen to you. And I was telling
him about how me and my ex ones we were
in Bali, that's where we met. He was a hot
Australian serverer. He was a dick though, but.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Never trust a hot Australian sofe. But they're hot, they're fun,
they're fun for a little bit. There you go.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, it didn't. It didn't work out long term.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Girls got to eat.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
We both got dangy fever.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
It was one of the worst sicknesses I've ever felt.
I truly felt like I was dying. And then he
got it again in Mexico. We then were in the
States when the symptoms hit. We're in California and we
went to a doctor. We said, we've both had dangy before.
We were just in Mexico. There was warning signs to
(06:19):
be careful about it, blah blay blah, and he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa,
We're not going to go chasing zebras before we look
at horses, okay, And we were like, are you fucking
kidding me? My friend who had gone to physicians assistant
school said that they fucking say that shit when they're
training you. They're supposed to go for the most obvious
thing first and not listen to you. And then he
(06:40):
finally did test for dangy because he didn't test positive
for anything else, and oh what the fuck, No way
he had it. I just thought that was crazy that
that was a common saying in the medical field. Don't
go chasing zebras before you look at horses.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, that's alarming, But I think it's important to rule
everything out. But I also I think you got to
have a balance and listen to what your patient is
actually telling you.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, because you're the one who's with yourself all the time.
They're with you for ten fucking minutes.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, I know, speaking of horses, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Speaking of horses. Today, Alicia is telling me a story.
I don't know what it's about. I heard it's culty
and murdery, so naturally I was excited. Spilled beans, What
are you telling me about today?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Today? I am going to be telling you about the
murder of a lease pallor Does that name sound familiar?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It does not.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Okay, So think nineteen ninety five, Think a little bit
of the ending of satanic panic. Think of high school
different clicks. You got the burnouts, you got the this,
you got the that put yourself in the mean girl's mindset?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Okay, like clueless? Maybe?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah. I just want to say my story has
a quick trigger warning for elements of drug use, of rape,
and of animal abuse and just lots of not good things.
So if this isn't something that you feel like you're
(08:18):
able to listen to, I am not hurt at all
by it. Please come and check out any of our
other episodes on our Twisted, Uncorked feed because you'll find
something for you there. I guarantee it. And you know
Ash has a huge backlog too, you're already here, you
know that.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I hate when somebody's like, ooh, I got a fucked
up one for you, and I'm like fuck you, anim
all excited and then it's like really horrific.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I'm like, no, I'm sad for that. To be honest,
I should put more trigger warnings. I just have like
a blanket trigger warning in my intro, so I usually
forget about it. This story is both very interesting and
both very sad at the same time, which is the
wheelhouse of true crime. Really.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
You know, sometimes I like to reatter that we don't
tell the stories in a light or humorous manner because
it's funny. It's because I can't get through it telling
it in a serious manner without wanting to burn the
world down.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
There is a little bit of comic relief with our
bad guys, so to speak, in the story, because they
are just truly ridiculous. But I will also preface this
by saying that this is the story, the real life
story that I inspired the movie Jennifer's Body, So I've
never seen Jennifer's Body. From being totally honest, I can't
(09:34):
bring myself to watch it. It looks a little cringey,
and I'm maybe unpopular opinion. I'm not a huge Megan
Fox fan.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It's totally cringey. I kind of like Megan Fox.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Actually, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
We used to do book club for Patreon, and then
we decided the book a month was too much, so
then we started alternating between a book and a movie.
For Halloween one year, we chose movie, and we just
ended up choosing Jennifer's body. I can't believe that a
real story is the base.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I want to say loosely based, right, No, Well that's
somebody that's seen the movie. Maybe you can weigh in
a little bit more on any connections that there is
between the actual case and the movie. But it is
on a list for me to watch at some point.
Promise I will do it.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Interesting, Okay, I'm very intrigued.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Elise was born on April twenty fourth, nineteen eighty. She
was incredibly close with her family and was the oldest
of four siblings. And she was not a goodie two
shoes by any means. But she wasn't a trouble maker
kind of rebel teenager. She was just somewhere in the middle.
She was free spirited, she made friends easily. She was
(10:49):
just very kind to honestly everyone, and I admired that
about her for sure, because in a world of people
that are shitty. She was a light and sweet person
and what happened to her is unacceptable and shouldn't have
but we will get into it. So, like I said,
she wasn't really a goody two shoes, but she was
also still a teenager, so she did dabble experiment. You know.
(11:12):
She started smoking weed specifically, and started to do this
before class more and more, and some of her friends,
as she saw regularly, were starting to worry about her.
She eventually got in trouble and suspended from school. So
naturally her parents found out.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
And how old was she?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
She was fifteen at this point. Okay, I mean I
didn't smoke weed until after I was at of high
school because I was a good eye two shoes And
I'm not saying that this is how you should start
your school experience. But I'm also going to say that
I don't think she really did much wrong here. I
think she was just being a teenager.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah. I started smoking weed litty heavily around that age.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I think her parents didn't take it very well. They
I think overreacted. They put her into a substance abuse program,
and they did try to reason with her, talk to
her stating this isn't who you are? What kind of
life are you going to lead? If this is the
path that you're taking. I think that they went the
fear based parenting. I'm going to do the most extreme
(12:14):
thing because I'm scared otherwise, rather than just finding a
level ground with their kid. But I'm not victim blaming
by any means. I'm just saying that this isn't the
approach I would have taken.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, nobody should take the troubled teen industry approach. Just PSA.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Remember yes, yeah, we both covered you know, the conversion
schools and the damages that can come from there. So
these types of programs are just a stepping stone into it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Sometimes yeah, and they're just predatory and so much abuse
goes on and it's fecked up.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Sometimes it hurts more than it helps.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Most of the time, the majority of the time.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
But I think that in this case it caused her
to rebel a little bit more. She's like, this isn't
the way that I want to do this. If you
guys want to talk to me, talk to me. If not,
you know, I'm going to keep having I'm going to
keep living my life. So she was very adamant that
she wasn't suffering, nothing was going on with her. I mean,
this was just something she was experimenting with. And other
(13:09):
than her family, who would move to another town after this,
trying to separate her from the school that she was
already in. And that's hard enough as it is. You're
already in high school trying to figure out who you are,
and then you're going to be uprooted and moved to
another environment.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, I switched schools quite a lot. Did you sucks?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I can't. It sucks. It sucks to a normal tine.
This might be a little bit of an alarm bell
or reason to act out even more, but Alise took
it as a good opportunity. She was like, you know what,
I'm going to make new friends. I'm gonna still be
the good person that I am, the kind person that
I am at all. Be fine. On July twenty second,
(13:51):
nineteen ninety five, Elise was invited to a party slash
hangout to Small.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Airpeas quotes, Yeah, we've all been there. You know.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
A couple of teenage boys are like, hey, you want
to come smoke a little weed? So she was like, sure,
it'll be an opportunity for me. To meet new people
and be in a different environment.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
And honestly, smoking weed is so much better than drinking.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
It's true. Yeah, but again on the advocacy of listening
to your own body. You guys, make up your mind
for yourself.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
These teenagers that she was hanging out with were what
I described at the beginning as the burnouts of the school,
and not people that Elice would normally be hanging out with.
But like I said, she was really nice to everyone,
and she actually did have fun with them, and she
wanted to smoke some weaed.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
If we were comparing this to clueless, it'd be like
the group that Travis was a part of a little
bit all the young dude, but worse. Okay, we'll get there, Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
So when I say burnouts and I love your singing,
I truly mean burnouts. These three teenage boys had a
band together called Hatred, and they were known to be
the trouble around town. They were big into Satanism, but
not in the cool way that doesn't actually involve the
devil at all, but in the scary worship the devil
(15:13):
kind of way. They even went as far as to
buy authentic cards on the internet. To show their allegiance
to the devil, and I'm pretty sure they spent around
one hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
He loves just getting homage paid to him via.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yes, yes, the money is going directly to him. In fact,
you know, yeah, I know your listeners are new to
my voice, but that was all sarcasm.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I have to clarify that a lot actually.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Don't have me. Yeah, exactly, you're like, I swear I
was speaking sarcastic. I was kidding. So they were also
not just into weed, but they were into harder drugs
as well. And I'm sorry if this is triggering at
all for any of your listeners, but they did do
drugs like beth and cocaine as well, so they were
not necessarily on the right path high school.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, that's pretty intense.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Their favorite drug of choice was glue sniffing. Oh, so
this is the scene that we're in. They thought that
they could channel powers from the devil to make their
band Hatred better. Are we following this nonsense? They had
tried sacrificing things to the devil. They started small, with
(16:22):
frogs and small animals, and they would crucify them. It
was horrible. No animal deserves that no person deserves that.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Nobody.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
They started reading more and more about sacrifice and they
learned that sacrificing a virgin to the devil would get
them the ultimate power that they were looking for.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
It's always a virgin.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, So they targeted a Lease specifically because she was
the new kid. She was pretty innocent as far as
their friend group went, and she was so kind, so
in their minds easily manipulated. The three teenage boys that
(17:13):
she was hanging out with were Jacob de Lashmant, Joseph Fierrella,
and Royce Casey. And they were all between the ages
of fourteen and sixteen. And like I said earlier, Elise
was fifteen at this time.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And where was this again taking place?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Ario Grande, California.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Arroyo, arroya royo.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Thank you. I'm Canadian, guys. I never mentioned that don't
don't don't hate me.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
We have nice listeners, and I think if they're not nice,
they generally just stop listening because they fair don't or
they like hate listen. It's weird.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
But you know what, that's good for your numbers and visibility.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
So keeping hile.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, So that's where she moved to. This is where
our story gets a little bit darker. They would lure
Alise out to a remote field where they started smoking
weed together. They were laughing, joking around, talking about her
first few weeks at this new school, and then they
just attacked her. Jacob de Lashmant would strangle her with
(18:14):
his belt that he slipped from his waist secretly, just
while they were all chatting. Royce held her down, and
Joe pulled a hunting knife from a sheath that he
had on him and started stabbing her. They rotated stabbing
her as well because they were thinking that this was
some sort of their ritual. But this is just an innocent,
(18:36):
sweet girl. Royce Casey would later report that Alice cried
out for her mom while she was being attacked. All
it was really really sad. She was like praying and
just asking for her mom.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
What a terrible fucking way to die. How scary.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I mean, you should be allowed to trust to your
fellow classmates and friends and try and make friends, but
that was not the case here. They went one step
further with being absolute trash humans and they also raped her.
So Elise would bleed out and die in this field.
(19:15):
I will say that this is truly tragic. She's almost
this angelic part of the story. And the field that
they brought her to was actually a eucalyptus field. That's
just where they left her. Alisa's parents were obviously wondering
where their daughter went after saying she was going out
to hang out for a few hours. When they discovered
that she wasn't in her room the next morning, they
(19:38):
immediately reported her as missing. She always came home and
if she wasn't coming home, she would at least check
in with them, so this was a red flag.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I always like to point out different states have different rules,
but I think a lot of people are under the
impression they have to wait forty eight hours to report
somebody missing, and I do think that is the case
in some places, but in most places it's not. You
can just do it immediately.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Well, pretty much, especially when you're dealing with adults, the
police will always tell you that you have to wait
forty eight hours. Again, on the topic of advocating for yourself,
advocate for your family, and then say fuck.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
That, I was going to say. On the topic of teenagers,
a lot of times they'll say you have to wait
longer because they'll always go to their runaway.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yes, and that's exactly what investigators did in this case.
They weren't initially very concerned given her recent actions and
trouble that she had had at her other school. They
thought that she had definitely run away. I mean, even
if your child is a runaway, bad shit can still
happen to them. So I feel like that's not necessarily
(20:45):
the approach that investigators should be taking.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Now.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Bad stuff can happen when you run away couple really
does Yeah, treat it like an emergency. That's my PSA
for this, Like it makes me so mad. People did
starf looking for Elise, and in a weird string of events,
people around town started saying that they were seeing her places.
Elise was lawn chair, blue eyed, very pretty, so it's
(21:12):
possible that they were just seeing another blonde haired, blue
eyed person and thinking that it was her. The family
had recently moved here, so who knows. Also, when something
is put into your mind and you're starting to look
for it, you see it more often. So a lot
of false reports of sightings of her were starting to
(21:32):
come in as well, which, as we know in our story,
Elise is already dead, but from an investigator's standpoint, this
is a hindrance and is really hard.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Sometimes the amount of tips they get and this shit
is insane, and they have to follow everyone they're supposed
to exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Her family, including her grandmother who she was very close with,
held press conferences and were begging her to come home
if she had run away, that no matter what she
was going through and to what had happened in the past,
that they were going to work it out and everything
would be okay, which is just heartbreaking. Yeah, Elise, like
I said, was very close with her grandma, and she
(22:09):
had actually been named after her grandmother, which I thought
was very sweet. Elise's body would be discovered in the
eucalyptus field, which was about eight miles away from her home.
She would be discovered in March of nineteen ninety six.
So remember that our story took place in July of
nineteen ninety five was when she was murdered. Holy shit,
(22:32):
nearly a year later of searching of torture for her family,
she would finally be found.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
It seems like they didn't search that well.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I mean, I'm not familiar with eucalyptus fields myself personally,
but I'm wondering if because of like the overgrowth and
because it was remote.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I don't know. I just feel like there's be like
a ten mile radius or something at least dogs. You know.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I wasn't there such it, but.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, either, but I feel.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Like more could have been done in this search.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
MY heart always breaks for families, and we always say
on our show, you don't realize how large the victim
pool is in a situation like this, what her family
must have been feeling, and that eight months is unimaginable.
Her killers, the three teenage boys, apparently returned to her
corpse several times and had sex with it on different
(23:25):
occasions as well. Not only were they raping her while
they murdered her, they would return, So I guess trigger
warning for necrophilia as well.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I can't fathom adults doing this. Like the first episode
we ever did was Ted Bundy, and he's a known necrophile.
But for a fifteen year old boy to even fathom
that in his mind is just it makes me fear
for society.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I actually also I like stories that confirm sayism because
I feel like so many people deny that, like Satanic
ritual abuse is a thing do you know how many
people are torturing and murdering people in the name of
God every day? You don't think people are doing it
in the name of Satan too. Get the fuck out
of care. It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Absolutely, But for one of the teenage boys, the guilt
of what had occurred would prove to be too much,
Royce Casey, who would confess to the crime following his
personal conversion to Christianity. So funny that ashe just said
what she said, so the guilt was too much and
he had to purge himself of his sins, and he
(24:36):
would actually be the one to lead police to her body,
name his accomplices, and the three boys were arrested.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
When such heinous violence is committed by children, it just
blows my mind.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, I know, I'm just oh. The forensic pathologist who
performed an autopsy on Alisa's body confirmed that she was
stabbed twelve times and that she had sexually assaulted. None
of the individual wounds from her stabbing were fatal, though
they never hit any main arteries or organs, which meant
(25:10):
that she slowly bled out to death.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
In movies and shows, they always show that just one
stab kills somebody. Quickly, and that's not how.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
It works, because that they were all underage and not
legally adults at this point. They were tried separately and
not in the public eye, if that makes sense. There
was no cameras, there was no.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Their inanimity was protected.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yes, in this town, up until they were formally charged
with the crimes. So in nineteen ninety seven they all
received their own sentence and it was learned to the
public after this that the intention of killing Elise was
a part of a satanic ritual, although the crime bears
many hallmarks of a similar sexually motivated crime. In their defense,
(25:57):
the defendants said that they needed to commit a se
sacrifice to the devil to give their heavy metal band
Hatred the craziness quote unquote to quote unquote go professional. Joe,
Jacob and Royce would all plead guilty and confess to
her murder. They were sentenced as adults to twenty five
(26:20):
years to life.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Good because at that age you're old enough to know better.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I agree, I mean, I understand that a fifteen year
old could commit a crime, and in that instance he
shouldn't be tried as an adult. But for this particular case,
that is this dark, this premeditated, and this horrific. Yes,
you should be tried as an adult. You committed an
adult crime. You should be charged as an adult. Elisa's
(26:46):
family attempted to sue the American metal band Slayer, claiming
that the band's music contributed to their daughter's death. Seems
like a bit of a stretch, But they were a
inspiration behind these boys starting their band Hatred.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
That's like blaming eminem for you know, it's just yeah,
come on, man, I agree.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
But I also understandable in an instance like this, where
you have no other answers and no other reasoning behind
why somebody's so precious to you would be taken away.
I understand that sometimes people blame the wrong parties when
they feel like they have no, like nothing else to
(27:28):
grasp at.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
They're looking for some rhyme or reason.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, exactly, and I get that. I get that completely.
The band actually did respond to the family and were
very respectful and very understanding of why they tried to
go after them in that way, which is kind of
sweet and also shows you that they are nice, kind
people that are just in the artistry world making music
(27:52):
that they're passionate about. They don't think that some fifteen
year old is going to be like, oh, I must
be like them, and I must sacrifice a girl to
the devil in order to be as great as them.
No one ever thinks that that's an influence that they
could have.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
They just like to scream in a microphone in a way.
I don't understand how a person's throat can handle. Because
I tried it a few times, just for like a
couple seconds, and give it a try and give us
your best metal me. Yeah, do it? Oh god, what.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I oh, that was terrible.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Everyone's gone. Now everyone is gone.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I feel like it's like we're going to see the devil.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah this is Hatred.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah. I couldn't do it. It hurts.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
It hurt my throat for two seconds.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I imagine that Slayer has the best after care tea
honey situation for.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Themselves, got a good routine, probably, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Absolutely. Specifically, the motivation behind Alisa's parents trying to sue
the band Slayer was because one the boys had openly
admitted that Hatred was inspired by their music, and two
they had songs like post Mortem and Dead Skin Mask
(29:10):
that gave the three killers detailed instructions to stock, rape, torture, murder,
and commit acts of necrophilia. But whether or not you
choose to take that literally is up to you. So again,
it is not this band's fault. It is these boy's fault,
and that that's why they chose to do what they
did to their daughter. The lawsuit was filed in nineteen
ninety six, but delayed until two thousand and when everything
(29:34):
was concluded in terms of the boys sentencing. The initial
case was originally thrown out, and the judge stated, quote,
there's not a legal position that would be taken that
would make Slayer responsible for the girl's death. Where do
you draw the line? You might as well start looking
through the library, at every book on the shelf and
make sure that there's nothing in there that could possibly
(29:55):
influence somebody to do something this heinous end quote.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Li's parents were undeterred by the judge's words here, and
they filed a second lawsuit claiming that Slayer quote knowingly
distributed harmful material to miners end quote, which this too
was dismissed. They're not knowingly distributing it to miners. They
are just releasing music they don't know who's listening to it. Yeah,
(30:20):
we completely understand that the pain that they were in
trying to find some sort of meaning or reasoning behind this,
making sense of the senseless.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Jacob de Lashmant, one of the three teenagers himself, stated
in a Washington Post interview, quote, the music is destructive,
but that's not why Alisee was murdered. She was murdered
because Joe was obsessed with her and obsessed with killing her.
End quote. One of the investigators said why why was
this what happened? And Royce Casey said it was to
(30:51):
receive power from the devil to help them play better.
By making this perfect sacrifice to the devil, they would
gain more craziness. Like I said the investigator, I'm sure
I can't even imagine being the one interviewing these boys
and having to take it seriously. They continued that quote,
it would make them play harder, play faster, and making
(31:12):
this perfect sacrifice to the devil it might help them
go quote professional end.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Quote seems like a super good reason.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I don't know, in a plot twiss similar to that
that led to her death, Royce Casey told investigators that
they planned to entice and lure Elise out to a
rural area, which they did. One of the boys pretended
to slip down this ravine which would then take them
(31:42):
down to this eucalyptus field. So she didn't question why
they were luring her so far because he like pretend
fell down this hill and then that that's just where
they ended up. Because I myself would feel nervous if
three boys were luring me into a remote area.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, she thought these were her friends though, you know, Yeah,
that's true.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
And of course after all of the cards were put
on the table, they all played the blame game against
each other. Obviously. Royce Casey, being the one to confess
and initially lead police to her body, tried to take
the least amount of blame in it, like he had
done something good by bringing all of this to light.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
But he was the one who wanted to kill her.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah. Royce Casey also told investigators that Elise was specifically targeted,
like I said, because she was new, not a lot
of people knew much about her or would likely be
looking for her, which jokes on you, sir. She had
a loving family that were looking for her. She also
had blonde hair and blue eyes, and she had admitted
to them that she was a virgin, so she was
(32:46):
the perfect sacrifice to the devil.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Does he apparently like blonde hair and blue eyes or
just the virgin part.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I think it's just the virgin part. I think, but
I'm not an expert, okay. David Paller wrote that he
was unable to work between the year Sorry. David Paller
is Elise's father, said that he was unable to work
between nineteen ninety five and nineteen ninety eight because of
the trauma of losing his daughter in this way, and
(33:13):
he was forced to seek mental health counseling, especially following
the dismissal of the lawsuit against Slayer. They were like,
you are clearly not okay, sir, Yeah, he said quote.
For many months, we suffered through the nightmare of not
knowing what happened to Elise. When her body was finally
discovered and I learned that she had been barbarically murdered,
(33:34):
I was consumed with grief.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
How could you not be.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Although the defendants received prison sentences ranging from twenty five
years to life, it did little to ease the horror
of what they had done. The pain of losing my
daughter and knowing that she suffered will never leave me
end quote.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And it's two separate things. The fucking not knowing what happened,
where she is, if she's alive, and then finding out
that she's not, And not only did she get killed,
but it happened in a brutal, horrific way.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah. And because he was unable to work, and because
they had lost about five hundred and twenty five thousand
dollars in income over those years, David admitted that they
had to go on welfare as a family, and they
had to downsize from their family home. And keep in mind,
Elise was the oldest of three siblings, so she had
(34:26):
three younger siblings that were still impacted by this as well. Jesus,
the mental anguish of his daughter's murder continues to plague
David Paller. In twenty fourteen, he was involved in a
road rage incident. He said that he was triggered by
post traumatic stress disorder, and according to the police report,
(34:47):
he was cut off in traffic then followed the vehicle
to a nearby parking lot, where he allegedly opened the
driver's side door pulled the driver out by his shirt
and got into a fit spite with him, so he
charged with battery, which was ultimately dismissed, and pled no
contest to misdemeanor. He received probation, a five hundred dollars fine,
(35:09):
and was ordered to take anger management classes.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Honestly, not that that's okay at all, but I can't
imagine the amount of just rage. Yeah, you would feel.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
He's not able to work. He's feeling all of this anger.
You know, the family's anger a metal band. They're trying
to find whatever connections that they can place here, whatever
piece that they can And that's why I said, like
we talk about just the pool of victims in this
one action has such a cascading effect to these people's lives. Honestly,
(35:41):
it's devastating. It should never have happened. I am very
sad that this was how Alas died. Like, it's just
not right. So I'm just he hear aboum you guys out? Yeah, jeez, God,
Royce Casey, Joseph de Lashman, and Joe Fierilla are still
serving their sentences at separate prisons. As far as I know,
(36:02):
I did a quick search before you and I started recording,
and it doesn't appear that any of them have been released.
Royce Casey had his first parole hearing in July two
thousand and six and it was denied.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Wait and when did they get sentenced.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
They were sentenced in nineteen ninety seven, so he.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Got a parole hearing after nine years. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I think that when people get prison sentences for life
or some shit and the only person that they were
a danger to is the person that they killed, do
your time and then if you're not a danger to society,
then do your time and go. But these are depraved humans.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yes, I agree. We talk about this on our show.
To the US prison systems and the Canadian prison systems,
to be honest, are not really designed to do what
they would hope to do in terms of rehabilitation and
actually allowing these people to be released into society afterwards.
It's not clear to me from this one action if
(37:06):
they're undeveloped prefrontal cortex was the reasoning behind their inability
to think this actually through, And if come twenty five
years later they're not actually going to be a danger,
it's really hard to tell. I'm not a psychologist. That's
up for somebody else to determine. But I just think
that you are one hundred percent right. They should serve
(37:29):
their time at the very least for what they did.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I kind of feel like their time should be life,
because if you have the ability to do that, then
there's something very mentally wrong with you, and I believe
you are sick. And I don't think that's a I
don't know, I don't think that's carible.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, I agree, it's terrible. So he was re paroled
in twenty twenty one, and Royce Casey was actually granted
parole in March of twenty twenty one. Case was the
one that found himself in Christianity and confessed and right
and brought police to her body. But that doesn't mean
(38:07):
he's absolved of his involvement in this. However, if he
is able to go out and live his life now
and not be an asshole, I guess that's for the
prison systems to decide. However, Joseph Fierrella and Jacob de
Lashmitt were both denied parole in twenty twenty one, and
as far as I know, they are still serving their sentences.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, it sounds like homeboy got a sweetheart deal because
he was the mastermind, but he also flipped on everybody.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
And I will send you images and sources for this
episode as well, just so you can share that us.
But if you google an image of these three boys,
they just look deeply unhinged, deeply disturbed people.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
That reminds me of the West Memphis Three, but instead
of being not guilty, they are very guilty.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, totally. We did the West Memphis Three for our
one hundredth episode. They were put into the same category
as these three boys and just ripped apart in their
town for something that was there was no evidence against them,
and in this case, there was every bit of evidence
against them. You guys one hundred percent did this. But
(39:20):
it's interesting that the West Memphis Three were prosecuted so
much heavier than these three boys too. So I mean,
I guess that was three counts of murder that they
were being charged with.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
We haven't covered that one because it's just such a
mammoth of a case.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah, it is. It's a big one. I have some
book recommendations if you enjoy reading for that case, because I.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Wish I enjoyed reading. But like my adhds, yeah, I'll
realize I've read ten pages and have no idea what
the fuck I just read? I'm like, god, damn.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah, yeah, time wasted fair enough. But one of I
forget his name off the top of my head right now,
but one of them wrote a book about their whole
experience with this and stuff, and it's really interesting to
hear their side of the story as well. I'm speaking
about the West Memphis story, not Hatred. Yeah, that is
(40:15):
Elice Paller's story. And I'm curious, do you have any
connections or is there any similarities to Jennifer's Body at all?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
I thought that Jennifer's Body was about a hot girl
who was a vampire. So so no, I'm confused.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
What I'm a little confused too, But that's what every
source says.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Sold, hold on, hold on, do a quick Google search. Uh.
Megan Fox knows to the high school who becomes monoically
possessed when a rock band watches an attempt to sacrifice
her to Satan.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Okay, Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Afterwards, she takes revenge on her male classmates by going
on a bloody killing spree and picking them off one
by one. Okay, so yeah, the beginning don't love that
it's a horror comedy. Yeah, that makes me feel lucky. Well,
it's so funny because I do true crime comedy, but
it's not just for entertainment, and it's not made to
(41:13):
be a mockery of the victim who becomes to like
crazy vampire. Yeah, so I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
I mean, take everything that you absorb with a grain
of salt, people, I mean listening to the lyrics that
you know, a metal band puts out there to be
on brand with something and then taking it to heart
as like a message and something that you should be doing. Like,
I just I don't know. I just think that this
case has a lot of messy elements and a lot
(41:40):
of portent elements that hopefully you guys enjoyed hearing about.
I think I was a little all over the place,
but I was a little bit nervous.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
All No, you killed it. I'm just god, you fucking
bummed out my Sunday. Dude.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I'm so sorry I did warn you. Culty and murdery.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I mean, honestly, that's always pretty heavy shit. But I
just I love Culty stuff. So that also reminds me
of did you ever hear of the Fallbrook satanic murders.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
It's on my list, but I haven't actually DipEd into
it at all.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Well, we have done an episode about it. Maybe I'll
re release it because it was me and Cam back
in the day. Again, we got some is it similar? Yeah? Okay,
we got teenagers satanic rituals. It sounds like it's a
lot of teenagers. Yeah, who do this?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
That's why I said undeveloped prefrontal cortex. Just don't decide
murder before you can fully understand the repercussions of that.
Never murder, Just never murder. That's my advice.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
You know the girls who murdered or tried to murder
their friend for slender Man too.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Yeah, and those were younger girls, weren't they like eleven
or twelve?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Oh, it's so scary that people like this exist, and
that sweet people like a Lease can be taken advantage of.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah. Somebody told me recently their best friend, of their
two best friends of like since childhood, randomly one day
just beat the fuck out of him. It's just scary.
People are psycho.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
I choose to keep my friend's circle close to who
I've known for years and years and years and years
and years and years, and podcasters, because I feel like
podcasters are We're all, you know, especially in the true
crime industry. We all kind of think alike and we
all are equally weird.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
And yeah, generally hopefully do this for a good reason,
where we're putting out information that.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, trying to uplift people's stories and hopefully absolve I
don't know, I just there's not a lot that I
feel like I can do with our platform. But at
the very least I can tell people's stories, and that
is my favorite part about it. I hope that wherever
Alase went off to after this, that she's at least
(44:05):
at peace. Now.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
You did a really good job of keeping the story
very victim centric, which often the stories end up being
about the murderers exactly. You know. So the Fall River
Murders were a series of three homicides that took place
in Fall River, Massachusetts in the late eighties. This was
a seventeen year old, This was some a nineteen year old. Wait,
(44:29):
those might be the victim But I watched a documentary
on it too. Again, is it on your main feed?
Speaker 1 (44:35):
I'll have to go back and listen.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
I think it's not. But I'll put it up the
same week that I put this episode up as like
a little sneak peek.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Culty teenage horrible murders.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be a fun week. Look
out for that. Guys.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
You're welcome, guy, but thank you so much for having
me on.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Thank you. Let's tell the people one more time where
they I can find you.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
So I am Alicia Watson. I've twisted and uncorked, and
you can find us at www dot twisted on cork
dot com. You can find where to listen to us
episodes we've covered in the past if any of those
interest you, and you can find us wherever you are
listening to this right now.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
So go give them a follow. Well, Alicia, thank you
again for coming on. And that was like real, it's
sadly fucked and real fucked up. Bye, guys, have a
have a good day.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Bye, listen to.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
A happier episode.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Go have yourself a palate cleanser.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Yeah again, fun week, Okay, bye.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Guys, byep so fucked up.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
It's just
And they were known to be the trouble around town.
They were big into Satanism, but not in the cool
way that doesn't actually involve the devil at all, but
in the scary worship.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The devil kind of way.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
They even went as far as to buy authentic cards
on the Internet to show their allegiance to the devil.
And I'm pretty sure they spent around one hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
He loves just getting homage paid to him via.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yes, yes, the money is going directly to him in fact,
you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
That is so fucked up. It's fucked up, so fucked up,
it is just so damn fuck. That's fucked up. Me me, me,
me me, Oh shit, my goodness.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I'm glad I'm not the only one that does stuff
like that before recording.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Oh yeah, it's like high editors. You know, I'm here.
I hate going in just cold, it feels so weird. Hey,
I don't know, so, Hey we are here. We're here
to podcast. This is That's So fucked up, a podcast
about cults, crimes and other things that make you say, ugh,
(01:18):
that's so fucked up. I'm your host, Ashley Love Richards,
and today I am joined by my very special guest
co host Alisha, would you like to introduce ussel Hi?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, I am Alisha Watson. I am one half of
the Twisted and Uncorked podcast. We do truly twisted topics
every Tuesday, much like my beautiful friend Ash here. We
do cults, conspiracies, true crime, all that crazy stuff, a
lot of hauntings. So if you're interested in her show,
you'll definitely love us.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yes, absolutely, they can find you on the webs, the
social media.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
The everywhere. Twisted and Uncorked.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Or apper sand ampersand.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
And and we took out the appress and because we
thought it looked pretty, but it was making it hard
seo search wise for us.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah. So as much as we love a literary.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Beautiful picture of something, it just wasn't working for sure.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
For sure, sometimes you gotta go function over form. Well,
you guys, I apologize for my scratchy voice. I've been
kind of biting off. I think it's just a little
cold because I feel fine, but I've been sleeping a
ton and have a really stuff he knows, and now
I have this oh or I don't know. Is it sexy?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
It is? It's giving, Like Phoebe Buffet sexy smelly Cat right.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Now, Melly Cat, Melli Cat? What are they?
Speaker 1 (02:46):
This is why I podcast and don't sing myself. But
that was quite good.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
You know, some people are here for the singing. Some
people are not. Somebody left a review I can't with
the singing. It's every episode and it sounds like drunken
care and it's too much. Well, if you don't like it.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
And I guess I'm not for you, I'm not for.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
You because I like singing. The best way to spread
Christmas cheer is to sing loud for all to year.
I just watched alf recently.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'm obsessed with that movie, so I one hundred percent
support that.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
What's your favorite Christmas movie? I mean, it is maybe
February by the time this comes out, but you.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Know what, we haven't seen each other since then, so
you know it's fine. My favorite movie is Nightmare Before Christmas.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I love it so so much, and I watch it
every Halloween and every Christmas. But my favorite traditional Christmas
movie would probably be How the Grinchetal Christmas. The Jim
Carrey one.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Oh, that is a good one. You know, he had
to go through six hours of makeup or shit every day.
Yeah crazy yeash, speaking of going through six hours of
makeup every day. I don't think that would be very comfortable.
I don't think it would be great for my mantle.
How Alicia and I were talking right before we press
to record about how probably the best thing that happened
(04:03):
to me last year was getting diagnosed and medicated for ADHD,
because I didn't realize how much of my depression and
anxiety was stemming from that, mostly task paralysis, a lot
of other shit just wandering mind. It's really funny because
I joke that the Listener's crowd sourced my ADHD diagnosis.
(04:25):
It never would have dawned on me until ten of
y'all breached out over time, being like, hey, super lovingly,
you might want to check it out. And then I
went to my doctor and not with some fucking be
well article or whatever, armed with information from the DSM
five and was like, so this is the criteria I
(04:47):
meet nine out of thirteen or whatever. So we were
just talking about how important it is to advocate for
your own mental health, well your own health in general. Also,
I was talking to my friend who went to physicians
assistant school. He was talking about how they're trained to
do thirty minutes per patient. Ten of that is looking
(05:08):
over their chart fingering out what's going on. Ten minutes
is supposed to be actually talking to you, and then
ten minutes of paperwork and whatnot. They are trained not
to ask you what's wrong or whatever, but to go
in there having already been informed by the nurse or
whatever about what's going on, and then they say, okay,
so this is what I think is wrong. They're not
(05:31):
really trained to listen to you. And I was telling
him about how me and my ex ones we were
in Bali, that's where we met. He was a hot
Australian serverer. He was a dick though, but.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Never trust a hot Australian sofe. But they're hot, they're fun,
they're fun for a little bit. There you go.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, it didn't. It didn't work out long term.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Girls got to eat.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
We both got dangy fever.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
It was one of the worst sicknesses I've ever felt.
I truly felt like I was dying. And then he
got it again in Mexico. We then were in the
States when the symptoms hit. We're in California and we
went to a doctor. We said, we've both had dangy before.
We were just in Mexico. There was warning signs to
(06:19):
be careful about it, blah blay blah, and he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa,
We're not going to go chasing zebras before we look
at horses, okay, And we were like, are you fucking
kidding me? My friend who had gone to physicians assistant
school said that they fucking say that shit when they're
training you. They're supposed to go for the most obvious
thing first and not listen to you. And then he
(06:40):
finally did test for dangy because he didn't test positive
for anything else, and oh what the fuck, No way
he had it. I just thought that was crazy that
that was a common saying in the medical field. Don't
go chasing zebras before you look at horses.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, that's alarming, But I think it's important to rule
everything out. But I also I think you got to
have a balance and listen to what your patient is
actually telling you.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, because you're the one who's with yourself all the time.
They're with you for ten fucking minutes.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Yeah, I know, speaking of horses, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Speaking of horses. Today, Alicia is telling me a story.
I don't know what it's about. I heard it's culty
and murdery, so naturally I was excited. Spilled beans, What
are you telling me about today?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Today? I am going to be telling you about the
murder of a lease pallor Does that name sound familiar?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
It does not.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Okay, So think nineteen ninety five, Think a little bit
of the ending of satanic panic. Think of high school
different clicks. You got the burnouts, you got the this,
you got the that put yourself in the mean girl's mindset?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Okay, like clueless? Maybe?
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah. I just want to say my story has
a quick trigger warning for elements of drug use, of rape,
and of animal abuse and just lots of not good things.
So if this isn't something that you feel like you're
(08:18):
able to listen to, I am not hurt at all
by it. Please come and check out any of our
other episodes on our Twisted, Uncorked feed because you'll find
something for you there. I guarantee it. And you know
Ash has a huge backlog too, you're already here, you
know that.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I hate when somebody's like, ooh, I got a fucked
up one for you, and I'm like fuck you, anim
all excited and then it's like really horrific.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
I'm like, no, I'm sad for that. To be honest,
I should put more trigger warnings. I just have like
a blanket trigger warning in my intro, so I usually
forget about it. This story is both very interesting and
both very sad at the same time, which is the
wheelhouse of true crime. Really.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
You know, sometimes I like to reatter that we don't
tell the stories in a light or humorous manner because
it's funny. It's because I can't get through it telling
it in a serious manner without wanting to burn the
world down.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
There is a little bit of comic relief with our
bad guys, so to speak, in the story, because they
are just truly ridiculous. But I will also preface this
by saying that this is the story, the real life
story that I inspired the movie Jennifer's Body, So I've
never seen Jennifer's Body. From being totally honest, I can't
(09:34):
bring myself to watch it. It looks a little cringey,
and I'm maybe unpopular opinion. I'm not a huge Megan
Fox fan.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
It's totally cringey. I kind of like Megan Fox.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Actually, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
We used to do book club for Patreon, and then
we decided the book a month was too much, so
then we started alternating between a book and a movie.
For Halloween one year, we chose movie, and we just
ended up choosing Jennifer's body. I can't believe that a
real story is the base.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I want to say loosely based, right, No, Well that's
somebody that's seen the movie. Maybe you can weigh in
a little bit more on any connections that there is
between the actual case and the movie. But it is
on a list for me to watch at some point.
Promise I will do it.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Interesting, Okay, I'm very intrigued.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Elise was born on April twenty fourth, nineteen eighty. She
was incredibly close with her family and was the oldest
of four siblings. And she was not a goodie two
shoes by any means. But she wasn't a trouble maker
kind of rebel teenager. She was just somewhere in the middle.
She was free spirited, she made friends easily. She was
(10:49):
just very kind to honestly everyone, and I admired that
about her for sure, because in a world of people
that are shitty. She was a light and sweet person
and what happened to her is unacceptable and shouldn't have
but we will get into it. So, like I said,
she wasn't really a goody two shoes, but she was
also still a teenager, so she did dabble experiment. You know.
(11:12):
She started smoking weed specifically, and started to do this
before class more and more, and some of her friends,
as she saw regularly, were starting to worry about her.
She eventually got in trouble and suspended from school. So
naturally her parents found out.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
And how old was she?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
She was fifteen at this point. Okay, I mean I
didn't smoke weed until after I was at of high
school because I was a good eye two shoes And
I'm not saying that this is how you should start
your school experience. But I'm also going to say that
I don't think she really did much wrong here. I
think she was just being a teenager.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah. I started smoking weed litty heavily around that age.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
I think her parents didn't take it very well. They
I think overreacted. They put her into a substance abuse program,
and they did try to reason with her, talk to
her stating this isn't who you are? What kind of
life are you going to lead? If this is the
path that you're taking. I think that they went the
fear based parenting. I'm going to do the most extreme
(12:14):
thing because I'm scared otherwise, rather than just finding a
level ground with their kid. But I'm not victim blaming
by any means. I'm just saying that this isn't the
approach I would have taken.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Well, nobody should take the troubled teen industry approach. Just PSA.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Remember yes, yeah, we both covered you know, the conversion
schools and the damages that can come from there. So
these types of programs are just a stepping stone into it.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Sometimes yeah, and they're just predatory and so much abuse
goes on and it's fecked up.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Sometimes it hurts more than it helps.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Most of the time, the majority of the time.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
But I think that in this case it caused her
to rebel a little bit more. She's like, this isn't
the way that I want to do this. If you
guys want to talk to me, talk to me. If not,
you know, I'm going to keep having I'm going to
keep living my life. So she was very adamant that
she wasn't suffering, nothing was going on with her. I mean,
this was just something she was experimenting with. And other
(13:09):
than her family, who would move to another town after this,
trying to separate her from the school that she was
already in. And that's hard enough as it is. You're
already in high school trying to figure out who you are,
and then you're going to be uprooted and moved to
another environment.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Yeah, I switched schools quite a lot. Did you sucks?
Speaker 1 (13:30):
I can't. It sucks. It sucks to a normal tine.
This might be a little bit of an alarm bell
or reason to act out even more, but Alise took
it as a good opportunity. She was like, you know what,
I'm going to make new friends. I'm gonna still be
the good person that I am, the kind person that
I am at all. Be fine. On July twenty second,
(13:51):
nineteen ninety five, Elise was invited to a party slash
hangout to Small.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Airpeas quotes, Yeah, we've all been there. You know.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
A couple of teenage boys are like, hey, you want
to come smoke a little weed? So she was like, sure,
it'll be an opportunity for me. To meet new people
and be in a different environment.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
And honestly, smoking weed is so much better than drinking.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
It's true. Yeah, but again on the advocacy of listening
to your own body. You guys, make up your mind
for yourself.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
These teenagers that she was hanging out with were what
I described at the beginning as the burnouts of the school,
and not people that Elice would normally be hanging out with.
But like I said, she was really nice to everyone,
and she actually did have fun with them, and she
wanted to smoke some weaed.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
If we were comparing this to clueless, it'd be like
the group that Travis was a part of a little
bit all the young dude, but worse. Okay, we'll get there, Okay.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
So when I say burnouts and I love your singing,
I truly mean burnouts. These three teenage boys had a
band together called Hatred, and they were known to be
the trouble around town. They were big into Satanism, but
not in the cool way that doesn't actually involve the
devil at all, but in the scary worship the devil
(15:13):
kind of way. They even went as far as to
buy authentic cards on the internet. To show their allegiance
to the devil, and I'm pretty sure they spent around
one hundred dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
He loves just getting homage paid to him via.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yes, yes, the money is going directly to him. In fact,
you know, yeah, I know your listeners are new to
my voice, but that was all sarcasm.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I have to clarify that a lot actually.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Don't have me. Yeah, exactly, you're like, I swear I
was speaking sarcastic. I was kidding. So they were also
not just into weed, but they were into harder drugs
as well. And I'm sorry if this is triggering at
all for any of your listeners, but they did do
drugs like beth and cocaine as well, so they were
not necessarily on the right path high school.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, that's pretty intense.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Their favorite drug of choice was glue sniffing. Oh, so
this is the scene that we're in. They thought that
they could channel powers from the devil to make their
band Hatred better. Are we following this nonsense? They had
tried sacrificing things to the devil. They started small, with
(16:22):
frogs and small animals, and they would crucify them. It
was horrible. No animal deserves that no person deserves that.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Nobody.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
They started reading more and more about sacrifice and they
learned that sacrificing a virgin to the devil would get
them the ultimate power that they were looking for.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
It's always a virgin.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, So they targeted a Lease specifically because she was
the new kid. She was pretty innocent as far as
their friend group went, and she was so kind, so
in their minds easily manipulated. The three teenage boys that
(17:13):
she was hanging out with were Jacob de Lashmant, Joseph Fierrella,
and Royce Casey. And they were all between the ages
of fourteen and sixteen. And like I said earlier, Elise
was fifteen at this time.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And where was this again taking place?
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Ario Grande, California.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Arroyo, arroya royo.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Thank you. I'm Canadian, guys. I never mentioned that don't
don't don't hate me.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
We have nice listeners, and I think if they're not nice,
they generally just stop listening because they fair don't or
they like hate listen. It's weird.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
But you know what, that's good for your numbers and visibility.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
So keeping hile.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, So that's where she moved to. This is where
our story gets a little bit darker. They would lure
Alise out to a remote field where they started smoking
weed together. They were laughing, joking around, talking about her
first few weeks at this new school, and then they
just attacked her. Jacob de Lashmant would strangle her with
(18:14):
his belt that he slipped from his waist secretly, just
while they were all chatting. Royce held her down, and
Joe pulled a hunting knife from a sheath that he
had on him and started stabbing her. They rotated stabbing
her as well because they were thinking that this was
some sort of their ritual. But this is just an innocent,
(18:36):
sweet girl. Royce Casey would later report that Alice cried
out for her mom while she was being attacked. All
it was really really sad. She was like praying and
just asking for her mom.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
What a terrible fucking way to die. How scary.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I mean, you should be allowed to trust to your
fellow classmates and friends and try and make friends, but
that was not the case here. They went one step
further with being absolute trash humans and they also raped her.
So Elise would bleed out and die in this field.
(19:15):
I will say that this is truly tragic. She's almost
this angelic part of the story. And the field that
they brought her to was actually a eucalyptus field. That's
just where they left her. Alisa's parents were obviously wondering
where their daughter went after saying she was going out
to hang out for a few hours. When they discovered
that she wasn't in her room the next morning, they
(19:38):
immediately reported her as missing. She always came home and
if she wasn't coming home, she would at least check
in with them, so this was a red flag.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I always like to point out different states have different rules,
but I think a lot of people are under the
impression they have to wait forty eight hours to report
somebody missing, and I do think that is the case
in some places, but in most places it's not. You
can just do it immediately.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Well, pretty much, especially when you're dealing with adults, the
police will always tell you that you have to wait
forty eight hours. Again, on the topic of advocating for yourself,
advocate for your family, and then say fuck.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
That, I was going to say. On the topic of teenagers,
a lot of times they'll say you have to wait
longer because they'll always go to their runaway.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Yes, and that's exactly what investigators did in this case.
They weren't initially very concerned given her recent actions and
trouble that she had had at her other school. They
thought that she had definitely run away. I mean, even
if your child is a runaway, bad shit can still
happen to them. So I feel like that's not necessarily
(20:45):
the approach that investigators should be taking.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Now.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Bad stuff can happen when you run away couple really
does Yeah, treat it like an emergency. That's my PSA
for this, Like it makes me so mad. People did
starf looking for Elise, and in a weird string of events,
people around town started saying that they were seeing her places.
Elise was lawn chair, blue eyed, very pretty, so it's
(21:12):
possible that they were just seeing another blonde haired, blue
eyed person and thinking that it was her. The family
had recently moved here, so who knows. Also, when something
is put into your mind and you're starting to look
for it, you see it more often. So a lot
of false reports of sightings of her were starting to
(21:32):
come in as well, which, as we know in our story,
Elise is already dead, but from an investigator's standpoint, this
is a hindrance and is really hard.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Sometimes the amount of tips they get and this shit
is insane, and they have to follow everyone they're supposed
to exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Her family, including her grandmother who she was very close with,
held press conferences and were begging her to come home
if she had run away, that no matter what she
was going through and to what had happened in the past,
that they were going to work it out and everything
would be okay, which is just heartbreaking. Yeah, Elise, like
I said, was very close with her grandma, and she
(22:09):
had actually been named after her grandmother, which I thought
was very sweet. Elise's body would be discovered in the
eucalyptus field, which was about eight miles away from her home.
She would be discovered in March of nineteen ninety six.
So remember that our story took place in July of
nineteen ninety five was when she was murdered. Holy shit,
(22:32):
nearly a year later of searching of torture for her family,
she would finally be found.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
It seems like they didn't search that well.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I mean, I'm not familiar with eucalyptus fields myself personally,
but I'm wondering if because of like the overgrowth and
because it was remote.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I don't know. I just feel like there's be like
a ten mile radius or something at least dogs. You know.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
I wasn't there such it, but.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, either, but I feel.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Like more could have been done in this search.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
For sure.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
MY heart always breaks for families, and we always say
on our show, you don't realize how large the victim
pool is in a situation like this, what her family
must have been feeling, and that eight months is unimaginable.
Her killers, the three teenage boys, apparently returned to her
corpse several times and had sex with it on different
(23:25):
occasions as well. Not only were they raping her while
they murdered her, they would return, So I guess trigger
warning for necrophilia as well.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
I can't fathom adults doing this. Like the first episode
we ever did was Ted Bundy, and he's a known necrophile.
But for a fifteen year old boy to even fathom
that in his mind is just it makes me fear
for society.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I actually also I like stories that confirm sayism because
I feel like so many people deny that, like Satanic
ritual abuse is a thing do you know how many
people are torturing and murdering people in the name of
God every day? You don't think people are doing it
in the name of Satan too. Get the fuck out
of care. It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Absolutely, But for one of the teenage boys, the guilt
of what had occurred would prove to be too much,
Royce Casey, who would confess to the crime following his
personal conversion to Christianity. So funny that ashe just said
what she said, so the guilt was too much and
he had to purge himself of his sins, and he
(24:36):
would actually be the one to lead police to her body,
name his accomplices, and the three boys were arrested.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
When such heinous violence is committed by children, it just
blows my mind.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, I know, I'm just oh. The forensic pathologist who
performed an autopsy on Alisa's body confirmed that she was
stabbed twelve times and that she had sexually assaulted. None
of the individual wounds from her stabbing were fatal, though
they never hit any main arteries or organs, which meant
(25:10):
that she slowly bled out to death.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
In movies and shows, they always show that just one
stab kills somebody. Quickly, and that's not how.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
It works, because that they were all underage and not
legally adults at this point. They were tried separately and
not in the public eye, if that makes sense. There
was no cameras, there was no.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Their inanimity was protected.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yes, in this town, up until they were formally charged
with the crimes. So in nineteen ninety seven they all
received their own sentence and it was learned to the
public after this that the intention of killing Elise was
a part of a satanic ritual, although the crime bears
many hallmarks of a similar sexually motivated crime. In their defense,
(25:57):
the defendants said that they needed to commit a se
sacrifice to the devil to give their heavy metal band
Hatred the craziness quote unquote to quote unquote go professional. Joe,
Jacob and Royce would all plead guilty and confess to
her murder. They were sentenced as adults to twenty five
(26:20):
years to life.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Good because at that age you're old enough to know better.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I agree, I mean, I understand that a fifteen year
old could commit a crime, and in that instance he
shouldn't be tried as an adult. But for this particular case,
that is this dark, this premeditated, and this horrific. Yes,
you should be tried as an adult. You committed an
adult crime. You should be charged as an adult. Elisa's
(26:46):
family attempted to sue the American metal band Slayer, claiming
that the band's music contributed to their daughter's death. Seems
like a bit of a stretch, But they were a
inspiration behind these boys starting their band Hatred.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
That's like blaming eminem for you know, it's just yeah,
come on, man, I agree.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
But I also understandable in an instance like this, where
you have no other answers and no other reasoning behind
why somebody's so precious to you would be taken away.
I understand that sometimes people blame the wrong parties when
they feel like they have no, like nothing else to
(27:28):
grasp at.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
They're looking for some rhyme or reason.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, exactly, and I get that. I get that completely.
The band actually did respond to the family and were
very respectful and very understanding of why they tried to
go after them in that way, which is kind of
sweet and also shows you that they are nice, kind
people that are just in the artistry world making music
(27:52):
that they're passionate about. They don't think that some fifteen
year old is going to be like, oh, I must
be like them, and I must sacrifice a girl to
the devil in order to be as great as them.
No one ever thinks that that's an influence that they
could have.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
They just like to scream in a microphone in a way.
I don't understand how a person's throat can handle. Because
I tried it a few times, just for like a
couple seconds, and give it a try and give us
your best metal me. Yeah, do it? Oh god, what.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I oh, that was terrible.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Everyone's gone. Now everyone is gone.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I feel like it's like we're going to see the devil.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah this is Hatred.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah. I couldn't do it. It hurts.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
It hurt my throat for two seconds.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
I imagine that Slayer has the best after care tea
honey situation for.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Themselves, got a good routine, probably, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Absolutely. Specifically, the motivation behind Alisa's parents trying to sue
the band Slayer was because one the boys had openly
admitted that Hatred was inspired by their music, and two
they had songs like post Mortem and Dead Skin Mask
(29:10):
that gave the three killers detailed instructions to stock, rape, torture, murder,
and commit acts of necrophilia. But whether or not you
choose to take that literally is up to you. So again,
it is not this band's fault. It is these boy's fault,
and that that's why they chose to do what they
did to their daughter. The lawsuit was filed in nineteen
ninety six, but delayed until two thousand and when everything
(29:34):
was concluded in terms of the boys sentencing. The initial
case was originally thrown out, and the judge stated, quote,
there's not a legal position that would be taken that
would make Slayer responsible for the girl's death. Where do
you draw the line? You might as well start looking
through the library, at every book on the shelf and
make sure that there's nothing in there that could possibly
(29:55):
influence somebody to do something this heinous end quote.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
Li's parents were undeterred by the judge's words here, and
they filed a second lawsuit claiming that Slayer quote knowingly
distributed harmful material to miners end quote, which this too
was dismissed. They're not knowingly distributing it to miners. They
are just releasing music they don't know who's listening to it. Yeah,
(30:20):
we completely understand that the pain that they were in
trying to find some sort of meaning or reasoning behind this,
making sense of the senseless.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Jacob de Lashmant, one of the three teenagers himself, stated
in a Washington Post interview, quote, the music is destructive,
but that's not why Alisee was murdered. She was murdered
because Joe was obsessed with her and obsessed with killing her.
End quote. One of the investigators said why why was
this what happened? And Royce Casey said it was to
(30:51):
receive power from the devil to help them play better.
By making this perfect sacrifice to the devil, they would
gain more craziness. Like I said the investigator, I'm sure
I can't even imagine being the one interviewing these boys
and having to take it seriously. They continued that quote,
it would make them play harder, play faster, and making
(31:12):
this perfect sacrifice to the devil it might help them
go quote professional end.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Quote seems like a super good reason.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
I don't know, in a plot twiss similar to that
that led to her death, Royce Casey told investigators that
they planned to entice and lure Elise out to a
rural area, which they did. One of the boys pretended
to slip down this ravine which would then take them
(31:42):
down to this eucalyptus field. So she didn't question why
they were luring her so far because he like pretend
fell down this hill and then that that's just where
they ended up. Because I myself would feel nervous if
three boys were luring me into a remote area.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Yeah, she thought these were her friends though, you know, Yeah,
that's true.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
And of course after all of the cards were put
on the table, they all played the blame game against
each other. Obviously. Royce Casey, being the one to confess
and initially lead police to her body, tried to take
the least amount of blame in it, like he had
done something good by bringing all of this to light.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
But he was the one who wanted to kill her.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah. Royce Casey also told investigators that Elise was specifically targeted,
like I said, because she was new, not a lot
of people knew much about her or would likely be
looking for her, which jokes on you, sir. She had
a loving family that were looking for her. She also
had blonde hair and blue eyes, and she had admitted
to them that she was a virgin, so she was
(32:46):
the perfect sacrifice to the devil.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Does he apparently like blonde hair and blue eyes or
just the virgin part.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I think it's just the virgin part. I think, but
I'm not an expert, okay. David Paller wrote that he
was unable to work between the year Sorry. David Paller
is Elise's father, said that he was unable to work
between nineteen ninety five and nineteen ninety eight because of
the trauma of losing his daughter in this way, and
(33:13):
he was forced to seek mental health counseling, especially following
the dismissal of the lawsuit against Slayer. They were like,
you are clearly not okay, sir, Yeah, he said quote.
For many months, we suffered through the nightmare of not
knowing what happened to Elise. When her body was finally
discovered and I learned that she had been barbarically murdered,
(33:34):
I was consumed with grief.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
How could you not be.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Although the defendants received prison sentences ranging from twenty five
years to life, it did little to ease the horror
of what they had done. The pain of losing my
daughter and knowing that she suffered will never leave me
end quote.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And it's two separate things. The fucking not knowing what happened,
where she is, if she's alive, and then finding out
that she's not, And not only did she get killed,
but it happened in a brutal, horrific way.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah. And because he was unable to work, and because
they had lost about five hundred and twenty five thousand
dollars in income over those years, David admitted that they
had to go on welfare as a family, and they
had to downsize from their family home. And keep in mind,
Elise was the oldest of three siblings, so she had
(34:26):
three younger siblings that were still impacted by this as well. Jesus,
the mental anguish of his daughter's murder continues to plague
David Paller. In twenty fourteen, he was involved in a
road rage incident. He said that he was triggered by
post traumatic stress disorder, and according to the police report,
(34:47):
he was cut off in traffic then followed the vehicle
to a nearby parking lot, where he allegedly opened the
driver's side door pulled the driver out by his shirt
and got into a fit spite with him, so he
charged with battery, which was ultimately dismissed, and pled no
contest to misdemeanor. He received probation, a five hundred dollars fine,
(35:09):
and was ordered to take anger management classes.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Honestly, not that that's okay at all, but I can't
imagine the amount of just rage. Yeah, you would feel.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
He's not able to work. He's feeling all of this anger.
You know, the family's anger a metal band. They're trying
to find whatever connections that they can place here, whatever
piece that they can And that's why I said, like
we talk about just the pool of victims in this
one action has such a cascading effect to these people's lives. Honestly,
(35:41):
it's devastating. It should never have happened. I am very
sad that this was how Alas died. Like, it's just
not right. So I'm just he hear aboum you guys out? Yeah, jeez, God,
Royce Casey, Joseph de Lashman, and Joe Fierilla are still
serving their sentences at separate prisons. As far as I know,
(36:02):
I did a quick search before you and I started recording,
and it doesn't appear that any of them have been released.
Royce Casey had his first parole hearing in July two
thousand and six and it was denied.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Wait and when did they get sentenced.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
They were sentenced in nineteen ninety seven, so he.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Got a parole hearing after nine years. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (36:25):
I think that when people get prison sentences for life
or some shit and the only person that they were
a danger to is the person that they killed, do
your time and then if you're not a danger to society,
then do your time and go. But these are depraved humans.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Yes, I agree. We talk about this on our show.
To the US prison systems and the Canadian prison systems,
to be honest, are not really designed to do what
they would hope to do in terms of rehabilitation and
actually allowing these people to be released into society afterwards.
It's not clear to me from this one action if
(37:06):
they're undeveloped prefrontal cortex was the reasoning behind their inability
to think this actually through, And if come twenty five
years later they're not actually going to be a danger,
it's really hard to tell. I'm not a psychologist. That's
up for somebody else to determine. But I just think
that you are one hundred percent right. They should serve
(37:29):
their time at the very least for what they did.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I kind of feel like their time should be life,
because if you have the ability to do that, then
there's something very mentally wrong with you, and I believe
you are sick. And I don't think that's a I
don't know, I don't think that's carible.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, I agree, it's terrible. So he was re paroled
in twenty twenty one, and Royce Casey was actually granted
parole in March of twenty twenty one. Case was the
one that found himself in Christianity and confessed and right
and brought police to her body. But that doesn't mean
(38:07):
he's absolved of his involvement in this. However, if he
is able to go out and live his life now
and not be an asshole, I guess that's for the
prison systems to decide. However, Joseph Fierrella and Jacob de
Lashmitt were both denied parole in twenty twenty one, and
as far as I know, they are still serving their sentences.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, it sounds like homeboy got a sweetheart deal because
he was the mastermind, but he also flipped on everybody.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
And I will send you images and sources for this
episode as well, just so you can share that us.
But if you google an image of these three boys,
they just look deeply unhinged, deeply disturbed people.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
That reminds me of the West Memphis Three, but instead
of being not guilty, they are very guilty.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Yeah, totally. We did the West Memphis Three for our
one hundredth episode. They were put into the same category
as these three boys and just ripped apart in their
town for something that was there was no evidence against them,
and in this case, there was every bit of evidence
against them. You guys one hundred percent did this. But
(39:20):
it's interesting that the West Memphis Three were prosecuted so
much heavier than these three boys too. So I mean,
I guess that was three counts of murder that they
were being charged with.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
We haven't covered that one because it's just such a
mammoth of a case.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah, it is. It's a big one. I have some
book recommendations if you enjoy reading for that case, because I.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Wish I enjoyed reading. But like my adhds, yeah, I'll
realize I've read ten pages and have no idea what
the fuck I just read? I'm like, god, damn.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Yeah, yeah, time wasted fair enough. But one of I
forget his name off the top of my head right now,
but one of them wrote a book about their whole
experience with this and stuff, and it's really interesting to
hear their side of the story as well. I'm speaking
about the West Memphis story, not Hatred. Yeah, that is
(40:15):
Elice Paller's story. And I'm curious, do you have any
connections or is there any similarities to Jennifer's Body at all?
Speaker 2 (40:23):
I thought that Jennifer's Body was about a hot girl
who was a vampire. So so no, I'm confused.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
What I'm a little confused too, But that's what every
source says.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Sold, hold on, hold on, do a quick Google search. Uh.
Megan Fox knows to the high school who becomes monoically
possessed when a rock band watches an attempt to sacrifice
her to Satan.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Okay, Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
Afterwards, she takes revenge on her male classmates by going
on a bloody killing spree and picking them off one
by one. Okay, so yeah, the beginning don't love that
it's a horror comedy. Yeah, that makes me feel lucky. Well,
it's so funny because I do true crime comedy, but
it's not just for entertainment, and it's not made to
(41:13):
be a mockery of the victim who becomes to like
crazy vampire. Yeah, so I don't like that.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
I mean, take everything that you absorb with a grain
of salt, people, I mean listening to the lyrics that
you know, a metal band puts out there to be
on brand with something and then taking it to heart
as like a message and something that you should be doing. Like,
I just I don't know. I just think that this
case has a lot of messy elements and a lot
(41:40):
of portent elements that hopefully you guys enjoyed hearing about.
I think I was a little all over the place,
but I was a little bit nervous.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
All No, you killed it. I'm just god, you fucking
bummed out my Sunday. Dude.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
I'm so sorry I did warn you. Culty and murdery.
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I mean, honestly, that's always pretty heavy shit. But I
just I love Culty stuff. So that also reminds me
of did you ever hear of the Fallbrook satanic murders.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
It's on my list, but I haven't actually DipEd into
it at all.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
Well, we have done an episode about it. Maybe I'll
re release it because it was me and Cam back
in the day. Again, we got some is it similar? Yeah? Okay,
we got teenagers satanic rituals. It sounds like it's a
lot of teenagers. Yeah, who do this?
Speaker 1 (42:37):
That's why I said undeveloped prefrontal cortex. Just don't decide
murder before you can fully understand the repercussions of that.
Never murder, Just never murder. That's my advice.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
You know the girls who murdered or tried to murder
their friend for slender Man too.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Yeah, and those were younger girls, weren't they like eleven
or twelve?
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Oh, it's so scary that people like this exist, and
that sweet people like a Lease can be taken advantage of.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah. Somebody told me recently their best friend, of their
two best friends of like since childhood, randomly one day
just beat the fuck out of him. It's just scary.
People are psycho.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
I choose to keep my friend's circle close to who
I've known for years and years and years and years
and years and years, and podcasters, because I feel like
podcasters are We're all, you know, especially in the true
crime industry. We all kind of think alike and we
all are equally weird.
Speaker 2 (43:37):
And yeah, generally hopefully do this for a good reason,
where we're putting out information that.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Yeah, trying to uplift people's stories and hopefully absolve I
don't know, I just there's not a lot that I
feel like I can do with our platform. But at
the very least I can tell people's stories, and that
is my favorite part about it. I hope that wherever
Alase went off to after this, that she's at least
(44:05):
at peace. Now.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
You did a really good job of keeping the story
very victim centric, which often the stories end up being
about the murderers exactly. You know. So the Fall River
Murders were a series of three homicides that took place
in Fall River, Massachusetts in the late eighties. This was
a seventeen year old, This was some a nineteen year old. Wait,
(44:29):
those might be the victim But I watched a documentary
on it too. Again, is it on your main feed?
Speaker 1 (44:35):
I'll have to go back and listen.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
I think it's not. But I'll put it up the
same week that I put this episode up as like
a little sneak peek.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Culty teenage horrible murders.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
Yeah, yeah, it's going to be a fun week. Look
out for that. Guys.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
You're welcome, guy, but thank you so much for having
me on.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Thank you. Let's tell the people one more time where
they I can find you.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
So I am Alicia Watson. I've twisted and uncorked, and
you can find us at www dot twisted on cork
dot com. You can find where to listen to us
episodes we've covered in the past if any of those
interest you, and you can find us wherever you are
listening to this right now.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
So go give them a follow. Well, Alicia, thank you
again for coming on. And that was like real, it's
sadly fucked and real fucked up. Bye, guys, have a
have a good day.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Bye, listen to.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
A happier episode.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Go have yourself a palate cleanser.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Yeah again, fun week, Okay, bye.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Guys, byep so fucked up.
Speaker 2 (45:50):
It's just
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