August 9, 2025 • 40 mins
Explore the minds of pro wrestlers as we engage in thought-provoking conversations about their wrestling styles, character development, and the artistry behind their performances.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
All right, this is the MoonlightSun, Mike Skyros, and you are
now listening to the Three Countpodcast I'll Kill Her.
No killer. Yeah, when the sun goes down, IE
Nick Doe. Goodbye.
Now if you're listening to this intro, you know what that means.
(00:23):
This is now entering 2O one. So what does that mean?
I am Clifford Red Dogma, the manthat leads you up our mouth to
wrestling. And you know, like every good
Sharpiez never bought me. It's about who's in your ring.
So who's in your ring? You find this man that grind.
You find this man Smash Baz. You find this man all up and
down the East Coast. West Coast.
He is the Moonlight Sun himself.He is Mike Sky Rose.
(00:47):
What's up, man? What's I'm so hype like having
you back on the show? So we we had talked to stuff and
then like here we are like putting back on the show again,
you know, run this back. I had so much fun at first time
that we had a conversation and then like since then we have
actually worked in the ring. So I was like, Yo, that was
(01:11):
actually, I was, I was so much fun, man.
I was, I've been like wanting toget a one-on-one now.
Now that we've had that, that six, that six, man, I was like,
I one-on-one on one now. And every time I turn around,
your name always gets brought upwhen I talk to other wrestlers
about like who they want to workand your name is always brought
up. So, you know, it's a testament
to you, man. It's really cool.
(01:33):
I always take that as a huge compliment.
There was, I'm not going to spoil it because it was like
semi recent, but there was a match that happened because of a
similar situation. And it's like I always take that
as a compliment and it always makes me work a little bit
harder because like I am, I'm confident in what I bring to the
table and the things that I've been lucky enough to be a part
(01:54):
of in wrestling. But like I will never look at
myself as like a big superstar or anything because like, I
haven't been on TVI haven't, I haven't had a contract.
I haven't done a bunch of international work.
So to someone to look at my whatI've done in wrestling and want
to get in the ring with me, that's awesome.
And I love that. And I never take it lightly.
Yeah, I love the fact that like people are like seeing you,
(02:15):
seeing a talent that you are andand and giving you kind of like
giving the flowers that you. I mean, I'll be fair, like you
rightly deserve because like I I've watched you work and we've
we met at grind and then there'slike watching you move, coming
from place to place. You had your match with Suzuki
and it's like go like that. I don't know if it gets any like
(02:37):
other than I guess getting signed maybe because then you
get to work like all the people you watch on TV, but like work
in Suzuki. Like that's kind of like the the
tip of the cap for what I was thinking.
Yeah. I mean, do you, do you want me
to go into that like? Yeah, we could talk about it
because I mean, that was to me. I was like, oh shit.
(02:59):
I mean, it's one of it's like, no offense to anyone out there
currently wrestling, but like, Idon't know how much higher it
gets for me in terms of like people to wrestle, you know what
I mean? At least like for me personally,
because not only is he someone who has accomplished so much and
he's held in such high regard and for good reason, he's
(03:22):
someone that I personally, I'm not afraid to say I'm a fan of.
He's someone I I have really admired the way he goes about
what he does in the ring, the way he wrestles.
So all those factors put together like it's hard to top.
And that's the thing. That was the bittersweet thing
about it. Like the smallest bit of shade I
(03:45):
can put on it because I've talked about this a few
different times and I've talked about this with people
personally, incredible experience all around.
I can go as in depth as you would like, but the the other
side of it, and I thought about this going into it, coming out
of it and then to this day is how OK, what's next?
(04:07):
I don't want it to be OK. This is the peak and everything
else is downhill because that's just not how I want to approach
things. I want to find the next peak or
the next plateau, you know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I couldn't imagine like
a dude being on a bench press and finally putting up to 25 and
be like, you know what? It's never going to get better
(04:29):
than this. You're always.
Really good analogy, yes, Yeah. Like, I mean, to be fair, like
Suzuki, as far as Suzuki goes, man, that's I would say like
this, it'll be equivalent to andfor like, I don't know, there
was like a cool TikTok video I saw the other day where they
were talking about if you can bench press your body weight,
(04:49):
you're like top 5%. We do 225.
You're in this like amount of percent and then like that's
like four O 5 and it was like you're 1 of like 400 people to
do it or something like that. It was it was pretty crazy in in
the world. And like you're in that echelon,
like you're in that that category.
You almost to me it would be like you're at four O 5 now.
(05:11):
Now how do we get to now? How do we get into the five
hundreds? And it's like, yeah, it's like I
can I can imagine, like you're trying to look on the other side
of it like I well, we're here now.
How do I get to the next step? Yeah, because it's it's it's in
my hands and it's not. And you'll understand this
because you wrestle and a lot ofpeople that wrestle that may see
(05:33):
this. But for everyone out there, I
can, it is up to me to do everything I can to get in the
best shape possible, to have thebest look possible, to wrestle
the best I can put myself out there to do all these different
things, put out videos that are interesting.
Everything that like that is in my control.
But ultimately there are people that could see all that and
(05:56):
there's like, I don't want to book him or I don't want to book
him with people of this caliber.And it's not my decision.
Ultimately, I'm not unless I start a wrestling company and
book myself against all the coolpeople, which is the cliche do
it's out of my hands. So there's a there's an anxiety,
but also AI don't know. It feels a little bit free and
(06:20):
that's the way I'm looking at itthese days to not.
I'm very much trying not to stress about things that aren't
in my control, so I try to handle all the factors that I
can. Yeah, I mean, very much so.
But then like on the other side of things too, it's got to be
cool because like, like I said, like it's that, you know, when
we started this whole conversation, it's like you have
a bunch of people who are legitimately like wanting to
work you because, you know, theyalso appreciate like the work.
(06:43):
So like you kind of have like this cool thing going on where
it's like you want to get to thenext level and you want to
wrestle like that next level up of caliber wrestlers, but you
also have all these like hungry,hungry dogs who are like nipping
at your heels trying to also catch you in the same.
So I think it's kind of cool, but like, you know, and not
everybody out there is like the cream of the crowd.
(07:05):
Let's be fair, right? Also, I'm not that person, but I
am one of those people that I'm like, I'm chasing out Mike
Skyros and I was like, and I getto pick his brain whenever I
want, but I'm also like, you know, I I see the path that he's
blazing. I'm like, I'm going to, I'm
going to tag along with this andtry to find my way around too.
You know, I'll too and I'll lookright at my camera when I say
(07:26):
this too. If you're a person that wants to
get in the ring with me, please make that known to me.
I don't like if that's AADM, if that's, I mean, we've had this
conversation before. Or if you reach out to a
promoter, I would love to make it happen.
You know, if you are, if you aresomeone that can get in the ring
and you're trained to the point to where you can wrestle and you
can have a match, let's go have a match.
(07:48):
I would love to. Yeah, and that's The thing is
like you're so it's cool too, because like you're you're
selfless about it, like you're willing to work anybody you
know, as long as you know, as long as you're like trained and
you can you can hang in the ring.
You know you can also if you go follow directions, I'll be fair.
I'm I was I will, I will put this out there right off the
(08:09):
rib. Like when we first when I was
first told out you and I would be working, I was like, Dang, I
got I was mad nervous and I was there with my friends and I was
like, man, I'm mad nervous. And then just sitting with you
and talking to you within the back.
I was like, Dang, I'm really nervous about all this.
And then you were like, don't be, it'll be fine.
And I thought like, for the timethat we got to interact like we
(08:30):
was, I was like, Yo, I could, I could actually, I feel like I'd
actually do a one-on-one on hereand I would have a fire match
with Mike Skyros because I already know the level you're
at. And I was like, that would only
bring me up another level. I was like, this would be a lot.
I was like, now I, I, I I've so it's funny too, because like,
since I've worked to you too, right?
Like I got to be in a ring with a bunch of other names of people
(08:51):
that I've been wanting to work forever, One of those being
Ruckus and then Isaiah Wolf and being in with those two.
I was like, Oh, I was like, there's a level to this.
And I was like, and I'll get to that level, but I'm on my way,
you know, on that level. And I was like, I, I'm, I'm
happy with how I'm progressing now.
Yeah, I mean, I'm glad you brought up those points.
(09:11):
So I if you hadn't have brought it up, I wouldn't have said it
because I don't want to paint you in a sort of light or I'm
not sure like what conversationsyou would like to be brought up.
But since you mentioned it, I could very much, I very much
noticed that you were nervous. Like he was very apparent when
we spoke and that's OK. I've, I still get in that
position, like depending on who I wrestle, like there are times
(09:33):
I'm, I'm certainly nervous and I'm very confident in my ability
to be like I'm and I wish everyone because I feel like
this should be a given, but I very much try to put people that
I'm in the ring with, including myself in positions to succeed
there. I mean, there's calculated risk
and everything, but I, I've seena little bit of your work like,
(09:56):
and we spoke and I'm like, OK, what do you feel comfortable
doing here, here, here? I and we, we leaned on those
things like I didn't, I didn't try and throw something that
would put us in a position that we could fall flat on our face.
I, I'm very, I'm very much confident in my ability to like
(10:18):
damage control in that way. And it's cool because like
there's, there's people that youknow, I'll be honest, I, I
doubted it and I still doubt it from time to time, like, because
you see, like those end of the year type lists come out and I
don't get sold here. Like, why aren't I on anybody's
list? But I do have the thought of
like, hey, man, maybe I'm just like not making the impression
(10:39):
that I used to be, or maybe I need to get myself out there a
little bit more because I'm not getting those type of tags and
things like that. Maybe I need to maybe there's
something that's passed me by that I need to go look at to,
you know, not to sound like the oldest man ever, but like I've
been wrestling 10 plus years. So maybe there's something I
(11:00):
need to step up to relate to thewrestlers that are coming up to
be more current. But all that to say, I those
people want to wrestle them thatlike put me in a certain light.
I try to look at it because I'm in those shoes too.
What would I want in that scenario?
(11:22):
Like when I'm wrestling I'll useSuzuki, or I wrestled Cardona or
I wrestled the Cologne brothers.OK, what about these scenarios
did I like or not like? What about these scenarios?
Would I would do what I want as the person in the passenger seat
almost, if that makes sense? Yeah, no, I definitely, I, I
(11:43):
understand. And like it's been funny too
because like I've kind of been able to like travel a little bit
and and work, like I said, we'renot around working and stuff
like that. And so like finally, like, I
think it was funny because afterworking with you and then like I
said, after there was like a couple matches I had in May
after working those matches. And then like, I sort of
(12:04):
realized like, all right, this is a thing that I can do.
I can help like I can, I can bring like my character.
And, and there was a lot of things being taught to me like,
and it's those, it's some thingsthat used to get taught in the
ring. It's not something that you go
to, you're going to go to practice.
You can you can practice these things, but like until you're
really into a situation where itcalls for, you're not really
(12:26):
going to know what to do. Like I'll, I'll give a perfect
example, right? So I was in a ring.
I was working Isaiah Wolf and like he was giving me
opportunities to like, you know,take shots, but I was not taking
no shots. I wasn't like really thinking
about those things. I was just kind of like, all
right, man, like I'm just, I'm just here for this, right?
And then I just getting so it was almost like this zero to
(12:49):
hero moment when I started to come back to, you know, come
back around. But after like working a match
with him, I was like, all right,you know what, like these are
things that I should really be focusing on.
So like recently bunch of matches that I'm working as a
babyface, like, all right, all right, well, you your hands are
up, up, there's one and they're like, oh, want to do it again.
(13:11):
All right, there we go. And then as on the heel side of
things, I'm like, all right, where can I give opportunities
to people to also capitalize on these same things that I need to
work on? And so like I was also working
in another match where like I legit with, you know, I hit a
person and I start realizing like, let me just go talk to
this ref real quick while I talk, like give him this
(13:33):
opportunity to like 1 catch his breath with two, like, you know,
I don't know, like, so I startedto think about these
opportunities too. And now I'm like, all right, so
this is starting to work. This is starting to work.
I was like, all right, I could start telling these stories a
little better. It's I don't know, to me, it's,
it's kind of come around to likethis fun side of things where
I'm like, all right, these are the things that everybody was
(13:53):
trying to teach me while I was in the ring, while I was still
trying to learn and understand. And now that I kind of get put
through the fire a little bit, I'm like, I'm starting to get
it. I'm starting to understand what
we're talking about. Here we go.
This is what we want. Because I remember like one time
in, in the ring and I'll listen,bro, I pull the curtain all the
way back. I don't really give a shit.
We were trading black and forth and you were like, you're
hidden. And then you're like, all right,
go ahead and write, even wait before you said all right,
(14:14):
you're like, hit me. Like I had already thrown a
strike back. And they're like, yeah, there
you go. And they're like, we're going
back and forth. And I was thinking about these
things the whole time. And I was so wrapped up in my
mind in the match that I was like forgetting to kind of
breathe in the moment until we were sitting down.
And then I bit your hand. And that's where I was like, all
right, we're back into this. We're we're starting to calm
(14:37):
this back down a little bit. I mean the, the art of wrestling
and it translates to whoever's watching, in my opinion at
least. I'm not the, you know, I, I
don't make the law of wrestling.But in my opinion, the art of
wrestling is found in the thingsthat are improvised or the
(14:58):
things that happen unexpectedly and how you react to them.
That's the art of wrestling, because you can you can go out
there and be like, I'm I'm goingto do you know, I'm going to
kick you in the face. I'm going to do this cool
moonsault and you're going to roll out of the way and you're
going to go for the slam. But I'm going to backflip out of
it. I'm going to hit you with my
move and all the stuff that's cool.
And then, you know, someone could go out there and they
(15:21):
could put like throw one punch at the right time and the people
eat that up way more. It's just that's what wrestling
is. It's not, it's, that's why I is
very difficult for me to catch on to certain aspects of
wrestling because in school, my,my mind always worked towards
things that were absolutes, thatwere like math or science, where
(15:44):
it's like, OK, you know, a + B =C and that's kind of A+B could
equal yellow. Like, it, it, it, it's an art.
It's not a science. And I'm like, there's certain
things that usually work, but itcould be anything, Yeah.
(16:05):
Yeah, there's, there's no doubt.There's like so many different
ways to like paint the color scheme.
Like as long as you understand like how the colors are going to
work together, like you can telllike whatever story you want.
And that's where like really, and I'll be fair, like my like
when I talk to people, we prettymuch go, it's to, to use, we, we
go A to B, like A-Z. Like we color the paints the way
(16:28):
we do it just because like, I'm like, listen, we're going to pay
it by numbers. We're going to play inside the
numbers and we just going to know like here's where we're at
and this is what we're building towards.
And then like we, we, you know, we, we, we call the match and
then we go outside and we and wedo it.
And I always throw in there likethe, the just in case, Emily,
like, yo, man, just in case something happens, this is what
we're going to look at doing. So we'll go Plan B with this and
(16:50):
then like, OK, cool. Not that it has to happen, but
it's definitely been the thoughtprocess of like, listen, if we
go out there and I and I'm and Itake the crowds and chair for me
and they start booming me anyway, we're going to make this
flip real quick and then I'm going to give what the people
want. And it's been kind of funny to
like to think about the aspect of like this could happen, but
(17:10):
it probably won't. But if it does, this is what
we're going to do this How wouldwhat we'll turn everything
around. And it is really much like the,
the A+B equals yellow. Like you have to kind of be
ready for all things, but then also be ready to like just work
on the fly sometimes, like when things are going down.
Yeah. And it's it's something that you
just have to, it's tough becauseit's not something you can
(17:34):
really work on in a training school.
It's something you have to do live in front of an audience.
It's just that's that's the the only way to really work on it.
Yeah, I mean 100% what's been like, what's been like So
(17:55):
because I remember I saw you recently dropped like your
championship from from grind, right?
And then like just the movementskeep going up.
Like how does the moonlight Sun like go for the next goal?
Like what's the next? I guess how do I put it?
Like where do we, Where do you go from here?
Yeah, that's, that's a conversation I have with myself
(18:18):
quite a bit. And it's something that I've
thought about very recently and I don't, I don't, I know what it
has to be, but I don't know how yet.
I have to, I have to find a way to get on bigger independence.
I work a lot of really cool places.
I wrestle a lot of really cool places, but for me to be able to
(18:41):
contribute more, I have to go bigger.
I don't know if that is necessarily always an
independent or if I find a company that a contract company
like say an N.W.A or a TNA or anAW or WWE or maybe that's
overseas work. It's, it's different things for
(19:03):
different people, but there's very much a in terms of what
exactly I'm doing, there's a ceiling that I'm like right at
that. If I can jump up, it'll be
really good. But it's always the question of
how I think. Like to reference what I said
(19:23):
earlier, controlling all the things I can control is, is
really big. I need to my wrestling needs to
be as good as it can be. My technique needs to be
impeccable. My physique and my diet and my
training need to be excellent. My promos in my speaking needs
to be excellent, but I think on top of all that, I need to take
(19:45):
more risks. That's what I've seen work for a
lot of people. There are there are wrestlers
that jump off the page in my opinion, because of a look or
like they're they're a really big in shape wrestler or they're
a wrestler that can do amazing acrobatic things.
They're a wrestler that has a unique charisma or personal
(20:08):
magnetism to where like. People can't stop paying
attention to them. But for everyone else, which I
put myself in the category of more like normal people, you
have to take risks and find waysto connect with our audience.
And what that is for me, I'm notsure yet.
(20:28):
I'm trying different things for sure.
I'm taking way more risks now interms of what I give to the
paying fan than I ever have, butit's kind of throwing stuff at
the wall to see what sticks. Yeah, and that I'll tell you
this, man, like I've been noticing like the size
difference, right? Like you talk about getting into
(20:48):
shape and getting like getting into.
I've been seeing like, you know,the work that you're putting in
the gym is paying off because I definitely see like where we're
thickening up, you know, I mean look like some gravy on the
chill Mead or something. But I, I mean, I do understand
too. It's, it's crazy though, because
like, I think for me, I always like, I always like to network
(21:09):
like a lot and then try to lean on that network as much as
possible. Well, not as much as possible.
I probably should, I could do more if I wanted to.
But like, as far as like, I don't know, it's weird for me
because like, I, I think about the things that I'm trying to do
and I pretty much share like allthe times from people, they're
always telling me like, hey, like keep doing the things
you're doing Kale or keep working, you know, keep keep
(21:30):
doing this, keep doing that. And to me, it's funny because
like I've I've heard other wrestlers who told me like when
wrestlers tell you that, like you should take it as an insult.
But I'm like, I don't know if I really am going to just because
like, if I'm going to keep working and keep grinding, like
I'll keep getting better, you know, as, as I go on.
And I guess for you, I don't know, to me, I always think of
(21:53):
you like I'm like, Dang, dude. Like the fact that you're not
like checked out, signed on or being tested and like other
waters kind of blows my mind because you have a look, you
have a character that you've already built, like put a whole
world around, you know, you're always adding new layers to it.
So I guess like, what would it be like?
(22:16):
I guess because I know for me, like 1 of the things I do, I get
nervous about like reaching out to other people and like trying
to like establish the new connections.
What do you think it is for you?That's like holding you back
from like going out there. Yeah.
Well, to reference what you saidabout taking, oh, keep doing
(22:36):
what you're doing. A lot of wrestlers now that came
up in the past, probably 10 or 15 years.
They're not. They're not.
They probably mean that face value because not a lot of them
are conniving enough to really play like that 5D chess with you
like that. It's just in my opinion, you
(23:00):
know, I know, or at least the way I look at it, I talked about
taking risks. That's something I wish I had
done more earlier. I wish I had bothered more
people in terms of asking for bookings or asking you to go
places. And it's I'm not saying it's too
late. These are things I'm playing
catch up on now, but it's I, I played it safe for a while and
(23:25):
you don't, you don't get better playing it safe.
You get, like I said, you get better taking risks and to learn
more and to see like a lot of things I've been missing, I need
that. I need that knowledge.
I need that that conversation and that advice and that
critique from people that have done it successfully for a while
(23:47):
and you don't get around those people staying in the same
spots, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, I do.
I do understand that. I got to do more.
I got to, I got to try differentthings because like, if I'm
being really honest, I could, I can kind of do what I'm doing
now and I could wrestle Indies at like I could be at the top of
(24:09):
the card on a lot of the Indies I'm on and have like a perfectly
good time and really enjoy myself and wrestle a lot of cool
matches for like the next 10 ishyears and just stay there and be
cool and it'll be fine. And I'll and I'll wrap it up and
I'll be like, Hey, man, like that was cool.
I, you know, I didn't make it toWWE.
(24:30):
I didn't make it to AW all thesethings, but I had a really cool
time and I wrestled some cool matches.
Or I could really like take a shot and I could, you know, take
some risks and be in some reallyuncomfortable situations and
maybe it'll pay off. Maybe it won't either.
Not everyone makes it. There are a lot of guys my, my
trainer says this and I think it's a really good point.
(24:50):
There are a lot of guys that play AAA baseball or play
American League hockey or play Canadian League football that
were really good, that were definitely good enough to be in
the NFL and they just never madeit.
And a lot of that's out of theirhands.
So, but what you can do is put every effort forth that you can
so that you know, when you're done wrestling, you know, you,
(25:13):
you don't have any regrets. You don't be like I should have
done this. Yeah, no, I definitely
understand that. It feels like it's for me, like
my character wise, like I've, I don't know, I guess I've never
been like, I've never showed a way of like trying to do
different things with my character.
And clearly my Instagram will tell you all the things that I
tried to throw the wall at. But like, I, I, I mean, I do
(25:34):
understand the world of like evolving and changing and adding
things to it and taking things out that doesn't make sense.
And then like taking like big risks on things.
And it's funny because like, I even talked about it.
Hi, Cindy. I talked about it at Kaiju.
I told her I was like, yo, how crazy would it be if, like, Red
(25:55):
Dog one day just came out as a stripper?
Like, what if he came out this, you know, a tank top with grey
sweatpants and some wrestling shoes.
That's it. Like, that's the look.
She was like, Oh my God, I don'tknow what I would do.
I was like, it could be fun. What?
What's the worst thing to happen?
(26:16):
It's one match. I mean, you know, when you
really look at it, Shawn Michaels was a male stripper and
just it just whittled down untilit was, it was still that, but
it was way more Shawn Michaels than it was like this art that
he had created for himself. Yeah, he would tell people he
(26:36):
was a sexy boy. You.
Know like people always talk about the Undertaker like the
undertaker like in his base formhe is he's a zombie, he's a he's
a mortician and through years and years and years and like all
the small changes and eventuallyhe's a biker and then eventually
he's like this weird, you know, biker zombie wizard like hybrid.
(27:02):
But you know, these things happen slowly over time, but
then you look back and like, oh man, I've come all this way from
what I was originally. So like the moonlight sun was
like a direct RIP off of Axel Rose.
Basically. That was what I patterned
everything off of. And right now it's I'm trying to
(27:23):
get away from this because I don't think that it's the best I
can present and I'm being very candid with you right now.
But it it got away from that andit'd be like right now it's,
it's very me. It's very me with like a few
loose like walls up, but it started out very like
caricature. See, that's the thing I saw
(27:46):
recently. Like I saw a photo of you with
your face paint and I was like, oh, I kind of like this look.
I like this like warrior type mentality face paint.
And I was like, this is this, this works.
I was like, it definitely took me a second to kind of realize
like what I was looking at and Iwas like, this is this is heavy.
(28:07):
This is going to. I was like, he needs to keep
this look and then he needs to go.
He needs to stay for a while. It's funny because like that's
the only the second time I've really done that.
And I did it last November and Iwas like, oh man, like I'm
waiting for if a bunch of people, especially like people
close to me that are going to belike, there are, there are
(28:29):
people thankfully in my life, inmy wrestling space, that if I'm
doing something dumb and be like, Hey, bro, that that looks
really dumb. And I was kind of waiting for
that. But I didn't get that.
A lot of them were like, Hey, keep messing with it and try it
and see what happens. And I'm like, cool.
So now I got to figure out I I'mgoing to keep doing it.
(28:51):
And I just got to figure out more of what it is and where we
go. And maybe maybe that's not my
decision. Maybe the the audience takes me
in a certain direction, but you know that's going to play out
and it's kind of exciting. I like it.
I like it a lot. I thought, like I said, looking
at it, I was like, OK, I see we've got all like the little
(29:11):
patterns that are going in there.
I like the the, I want to call it Native American look because
that's not a fair assessment to say to it.
But I like I said, I love like that indigenous aspect of it.
Like just this cold hearted Viking type look.
Now I'm just like, bro, this is when you figure when you I see
where we're going with it. And I was like, when you figure
(29:32):
out like the face painting, how it's going to look.
I was like, this is going to hitand it's going to hit heavy and
people would be like that fucking guy right there.
You got to have mom all your even though you should have my
shows. Now you got to have this fucking
guy on all your shows. Yeah, well, I mean, for a while
it was like, obviously I don't have long braided hair right
now. And that was that was kind of my
(29:54):
look for it. What like it was my look for
seven years. So I I shaved that off and I was
like just kind of wrestling likethis.
And I'm like, it's fine. Like I, I look like a wrestler,
but like there's nothing that stands out.
And I again, I'd wanted to do the face paint thing in a while.
There are a lot of people that I'm fans of that did it.
And I think I position myself ina way that like it doesn't seem
(30:15):
like a huge left turn. It's something that like it's a
big change, but it makes sense given what I've presented over
the years. So I'm like, OK, this can be my
thing that I can use to stand out.
The tough part about it is I don't wanna, I don't wanna hide
off of someone else's presentation either because
(30:36):
there are people out there. You can use the famous examples
like Sting, Balor, Mooda, all these guys.
But even on the Independence, there are guys like say a Rez or
dark STG that I think, or there there's another person to his
name is escaping me right now. And I apologize.
(30:56):
So if it's if, if I think of it later, I'll say it.
But there are a lot of guys out there that are doing like really
cool takes on it. And I don't want to, I don't
want to step on their toes at all.
They were they were doing longer.
They're doing before me and they're they're doing it so
cool. So I want to try and figure out
what my lane for that is. So that's what I'm working on
right now, yeah. And I, that's what I'm saying, I
(31:19):
was like, once you, once you figure that part out, I was
like, this is going to hit. And I was like, a lot of people
are going to be like, Yo, you got to, you should be watching
him. You should, you should check out
what he's doing right now. And I, I really, really believe
that stuff. I just want to see him like I'm
blowing smoke. But that definitely, like I
said, I see the, I see the thought process and I'm like, I
can't wait till he figures this part out.
This part's going to this going to this, going to fuck with so
(31:41):
many people when you get it. Appreciate that.
Yo, all right, so I'm going to take this over to one of my
favorite parts of this show, right?
Because the first time that we met, we actually our first time,
first interview we did, we did athree count podcast, 10 count
questions. This is going to be called pin
submit DQ. So I'm going to do is I'm going
to feed you 3 entities and you got to pin one, submit one and
(32:04):
DQ one. Yeah, so we're going to talk
about people who face paint. So yeah, you already brought the
names up and I just want to add to it.
So we're going to go with Sting,Finn, Balor, and the Great
Buddha. OK, so I'll ask you this.
I I understand the the DQ part. What in your opinion, what is
the the separation between pin and submit?
(32:26):
I mean one of them just taking the three count and the other
one's tapping out. So that's pretty much.
They're tapping out or I'm tapping.
Out. They're tapping out.
OK, Yeah, you're tapping out. That's that's tough because I
like all three of them a lot. I'm going to say, oh, I'm going
(32:53):
to say pin muda DQ sting. No, sorry, Pin Muda, submit,
Sting, DQ Balor, but by the smallest margin, because I
really like all three. So extremely unlikely event that
word gets out to them. I apologize, fellows.
Thank you. All don't worry, because like I,
I love, like bringing like all these different, like and also
(33:16):
like our next three, right, it'sgoing to be kind of fun.
So they'll be they'll they'll bea familiar path, right.
We're going to go with Scorpion,Sub Zero and Night.
Wolf man, I got to DQ Night wolfnight wolf rules but Scorpion
(33:36):
and Sting are like 2 of my two of my top two of my top three
Mortal Kombat characters so I got to go.
I got to go pin scorpion. Submit sub zero.
Yeah, submitting Sub Zero would be lit.
(34:01):
I just could not imagine seeing Sub Zero tap out and I'll just
be like, let's go say something to your brother.
Yeah. For those who know, you know, so
the last three that I want to pick is still going to be in the
same. Actually, it's not going to be
in the same world. I'm going to take it to to the
superheroes because this movie just came out.
So let's just go ahead and talk about it Thing, Human Torch and
(34:25):
Mr. Fantastic. Yeah, so I just saw this movie
and I'm not going to put any spoilers here because I don't,
I'm not that guy, but I really enjoyed that movie.
I I was a fan of the 2004 movie with Chris Evans, Michael
Chiklis, Jessica Alba and. Ian Yeah.
(34:47):
I thought this one did the IT was very faithful to the
characters and it was it played it a little safe, But I don't
hate that because I won't go toodeep into this because I'll I'll
go on a rant that I don't want to go on.
But it's nice to see a superheromovie that wasn't like just like
(35:09):
non-stop jokes, because once Thor Ragnarok came out,
everything was a comedy and not every superhero needs to be
that. This was just like a pretty
straightforward superhero movie and I I was cool with that.
So thing, Mr. Fantastic Human Torch, Yes.
Yep, Yep. My 3 big human, big human torch
(35:32):
guy. So I got to pin the torch, I got
AI, got a submit thing and then Reed Richards.
You're out of there. Paddle DQ.
I feel bad for John. John Krasinski's interpreter of
(35:56):
him bothered me. For some reason.
That whole scene in Strange bothered me, but I'm not the
only one. Yeah, and we won't have to dive
too much into this. My biggest my biggest problem
was is you're the smartest man, right?
And you legitimately were like, with one word, he can just
(36:17):
eradicate you. Why would you say that?
Why would you tell him? Why would you tell Wanda what
you're about to do? Even on top of that, Black Bolt
has trained his entire life to be disciplined about when he
does or does not speak. He he's not the also, can't you
breathe through your nose like this?
(36:38):
It's not he's not the type to like, freak out.
That's not that's very much the opposite of his personality.
But this could turn into nerd superhero talk real quick, so
I'll leave it there. Yeah, I was.
I was. I was very disappointed.
I was like, I'll read. You're not so smart.
Like I was so hyped for seeing John, just like, come on, man.
(36:59):
What? What are we doing?
Why are we doing this? So I can't wait to see like the
all the Richards together. And then just listen, John,
you're not there. And when you're not there, we're
all going to be like, yeah, shouldn't have said anything.
Yo. So what I need you to do is I
need you to let our listeners and our viewers know where they
(37:21):
go find you. Yeah, so first I will, I'm going
to plug my pro wrestling tee store because a lot of people
ask me to reprint certain designs and those designs that I
get asked about most often are on my pro wrestling tee store.
So you can order them in any size you want.
You can get them in tank top, long sleeve, they have all kinds
(37:42):
of options. They're great because as you
know, printing T-shirts is expensive and I can only do so
many at a time and I just printed 2 new designs.
So go on my pro wrestling tee store.
I got cool designs in there. Buy those before you you come to
the merch table and ask me. But you I advertise all the
shows I'm at. You can find me if you want to
(38:04):
find me on the road. Great place to look.
Pro wrestling, Grind, Immortal, Green Mountain wrestling are
three that I've been frequentingthis year a ton.
So those I'm very thankful. Also one up wrestling, I've
messed around at some 3 legacieswrestling, smash master
wrestling in northeastern PA andsome more places to come.
(38:26):
But if you want to find me on socials you can find me
everywhere at Mike Skyros, MIKESKYROS, Facebook, Instagram,
Twitter, blue sky. I'm not really active on TikTok,
TikTok in terms of posting different stuff, but I'm there.
I like to just watch stuff on there.
And then I do have a Discord page as well that's kind of like
(38:49):
a one stop shop for like upcoming bookings.
I got some behind the scenes stuff.
I got some blogs, I got some some unseen match footage, so
that's available too. Nice.
Yeah, Well, like every great part of a wrestling match
because he just told you everything that where you can
find him and you should because he's great.
(39:09):
But like every great part of a wrestling match, we had to take
this home because this is now entering 201 and I'm your host,
Clifford, a red dog Miller, the man that leads you up that mount
to go wrestling. Also, if you're wondering why my
voice sounds like this, it's because when you go to a ring
and you bump a bunch back-to-back days, Mike will
(39:31):
tell you too. Your vocal cords kind of get
damaged up a little bit and thenyou know.
What's up it is you're from the neighborhood red dog and thank
you for checking out this episode of the three count
pocket whether or not was Chad'sfriends, red dog friends dating
and friends to film stash down into the ring down into 201 or
now returning to the ring. You know, all those good
episodes. You should really be.
Liking, commenting and even sharing this with your friends,
(39:51):
family, whoever it may be. But what you all should be doing
is checking us out on all of ourfrom your platforms at 3 count
pod, whether that's on IG, twitch, you know, you check us
out on threads, whatever may be.And if you go check us out on X,
it is 3 count under score pod. Check us out on YouTube as well
as Facebook on rumble, on Apple Music, on Spotify, all those fun
(40:11):
things, you know, tell your mom about us, your dad about us,
your aunties, your unloaded brothers, sisters, your cousins
and your best friends and your enemies, because we love haters
too. Do all that stuff.
And then, you know, last but notleast by our merge on for
youwear.com, O core redsmithuse.com.
All right, this is the MoonlightSun, Mike Skyros, and you are
now listening to the Three Countpodcast I'll Kill Her.
No killer. Yeah, when the sun goes down, IE
Nick Doe. Goodbye.
Now if you're listening to this intro, you know what that means.
(00:23):
This is now entering 2O one. So what does that mean?
I am Clifford Red Dogma, the manthat leads you up our mouth to
wrestling. And you know, like every good
Sharpiez never bought me. It's about who's in your ring.
So who's in your ring? You find this man that grind.
You find this man Smash Baz. You find this man all up and
down the East Coast. West Coast.
He is the Moonlight Sun himself.He is Mike Sky Rose.
(00:47):
What's up, man? What's I'm so hype like having
you back on the show? So we we had talked to stuff and
then like here we are like putting back on the show again,
you know, run this back. I had so much fun at first time
that we had a conversation and then like since then we have
actually worked in the ring. So I was like, Yo, that was
(01:11):
actually, I was, I was so much fun, man.
I was, I've been like wanting toget a one-on-one now.
Now that we've had that, that six, that six, man, I was like,
I one-on-one on one now. And every time I turn around,
your name always gets brought upwhen I talk to other wrestlers
about like who they want to workand your name is always brought
up. So, you know, it's a testament
to you, man. It's really cool.
(01:33):
I always take that as a huge compliment.
There was, I'm not going to spoil it because it was like
semi recent, but there was a match that happened because of a
similar situation. And it's like I always take that
as a compliment and it always makes me work a little bit
harder because like I am, I'm confident in what I bring to the
table and the things that I've been lucky enough to be a part
(01:54):
of in wrestling. But like I will never look at
myself as like a big superstar or anything because like, I
haven't been on TVI haven't, I haven't had a contract.
I haven't done a bunch of international work.
So to someone to look at my whatI've done in wrestling and want
to get in the ring with me, that's awesome.
And I love that. And I never take it lightly.
Yeah, I love the fact that like people are like seeing you,
(02:15):
seeing a talent that you are andand and giving you kind of like
giving the flowers that you. I mean, I'll be fair, like you
rightly deserve because like I I've watched you work and we've
we met at grind and then there'slike watching you move, coming
from place to place. You had your match with Suzuki
and it's like go like that. I don't know if it gets any like
(02:37):
other than I guess getting signed maybe because then you
get to work like all the people you watch on TV, but like work
in Suzuki. Like that's kind of like the the
tip of the cap for what I was thinking.
Yeah. I mean, do you, do you want me
to go into that like? Yeah, we could talk about it
because I mean, that was to me. I was like, oh shit.
(02:59):
I mean, it's one of it's like, no offense to anyone out there
currently wrestling, but like, Idon't know how much higher it
gets for me in terms of like people to wrestle, you know what
I mean? At least like for me personally,
because not only is he someone who has accomplished so much and
he's held in such high regard and for good reason, he's
(03:22):
someone that I personally, I'm not afraid to say I'm a fan of.
He's someone I I have really admired the way he goes about
what he does in the ring, the way he wrestles.
So all those factors put together like it's hard to top.
And that's the thing. That was the bittersweet thing
about it. Like the smallest bit of shade I
(03:45):
can put on it because I've talked about this a few
different times and I've talked about this with people
personally, incredible experience all around.
I can go as in depth as you would like, but the the other
side of it, and I thought about this going into it, coming out
of it and then to this day is how OK, what's next?
(04:07):
I don't want it to be OK. This is the peak and everything
else is downhill because that's just not how I want to approach
things. I want to find the next peak or
the next plateau, you know what I mean?
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I couldn't imagine like
a dude being on a bench press and finally putting up to 25 and
be like, you know what? It's never going to get better
(04:29):
than this. You're always.
Really good analogy, yes, Yeah. Like, I mean, to be fair, like
Suzuki, as far as Suzuki goes, man, that's I would say like
this, it'll be equivalent to andfor like, I don't know, there
was like a cool TikTok video I saw the other day where they
were talking about if you can bench press your body weight,
(04:49):
you're like top 5%. We do 225.
You're in this like amount of percent and then like that's
like four O 5 and it was like you're 1 of like 400 people to
do it or something like that. It was it was pretty crazy in in
the world. And like you're in that echelon,
like you're in that that category.
You almost to me it would be like you're at four O 5 now.
(05:11):
Now how do we get to now? How do we get into the five
hundreds? And it's like, yeah, it's like I
can I can imagine, like you're trying to look on the other side
of it like I well, we're here now.
How do I get to the next step? Yeah, because it's it's it's in
my hands and it's not. And you'll understand this
because you wrestle and a lot ofpeople that wrestle that may see
(05:33):
this. But for everyone out there, I
can, it is up to me to do everything I can to get in the
best shape possible, to have thebest look possible, to wrestle
the best I can put myself out there to do all these different
things, put out videos that are interesting.
Everything that like that is in my control.
But ultimately there are people that could see all that and
(05:56):
there's like, I don't want to book him or I don't want to book
him with people of this caliber.And it's not my decision.
Ultimately, I'm not unless I start a wrestling company and
book myself against all the coolpeople, which is the cliche do
it's out of my hands. So there's a there's an anxiety,
but also AI don't know. It feels a little bit free and
(06:20):
that's the way I'm looking at itthese days to not.
I'm very much trying not to stress about things that aren't
in my control, so I try to handle all the factors that I
can. Yeah, I mean, very much so.
But then like on the other side of things too, it's got to be
cool because like, like I said, like it's that, you know, when
we started this whole conversation, it's like you have
a bunch of people who are legitimately like wanting to
work you because, you know, theyalso appreciate like the work.
(06:43):
So like you kind of have like this cool thing going on where
it's like you want to get to thenext level and you want to
wrestle like that next level up of caliber wrestlers, but you
also have all these like hungry,hungry dogs who are like nipping
at your heels trying to also catch you in the same.
So I think it's kind of cool, but like, you know, and not
everybody out there is like the cream of the crowd.
(07:05):
Let's be fair, right? Also, I'm not that person, but I
am one of those people that I'm like, I'm chasing out Mike
Skyros and I was like, and I getto pick his brain whenever I
want, but I'm also like, you know, I I see the path that he's
blazing. I'm like, I'm going to, I'm
going to tag along with this andtry to find my way around too.
You know, I'll too and I'll lookright at my camera when I say
(07:26):
this too. If you're a person that wants to
get in the ring with me, please make that known to me.
I don't like if that's AADM, if that's, I mean, we've had this
conversation before. Or if you reach out to a
promoter, I would love to make it happen.
You know, if you are, if you aresomeone that can get in the ring
and you're trained to the point to where you can wrestle and you
can have a match, let's go have a match.
(07:48):
I would love to. Yeah, and that's The thing is
like you're so it's cool too, because like you're you're
selfless about it, like you're willing to work anybody you
know, as long as you know, as long as you're like trained and
you can you can hang in the ring.
You know you can also if you go follow directions, I'll be fair.
I'm I was I will, I will put this out there right off the
(08:09):
rib. Like when we first when I was
first told out you and I would be working, I was like, Dang, I
got I was mad nervous and I was there with my friends and I was
like, man, I'm mad nervous. And then just sitting with you
and talking to you within the back.
I was like, Dang, I'm really nervous about all this.
And then you were like, don't be, it'll be fine.
And I thought like, for the timethat we got to interact like we
(08:30):
was, I was like, Yo, I could, I could actually, I feel like I'd
actually do a one-on-one on hereand I would have a fire match
with Mike Skyros because I already know the level you're
at. And I was like, that would only
bring me up another level. I was like, this would be a lot.
I was like, now I, I, I I've so it's funny too, because like,
since I've worked to you too, right?
Like I got to be in a ring with a bunch of other names of people
(08:51):
that I've been wanting to work forever, One of those being
Ruckus and then Isaiah Wolf and being in with those two.
I was like, Oh, I was like, there's a level to this.
And I was like, and I'll get to that level, but I'm on my way,
you know, on that level. And I was like, I, I'm, I'm
happy with how I'm progressing now.
Yeah, I mean, I'm glad you brought up those points.
(09:11):
So I if you hadn't have brought it up, I wouldn't have said it
because I don't want to paint you in a sort of light or I'm
not sure like what conversationsyou would like to be brought up.
But since you mentioned it, I could very much, I very much
noticed that you were nervous. Like he was very apparent when
we spoke and that's OK. I've, I still get in that
position, like depending on who I wrestle, like there are times
(09:33):
I'm, I'm certainly nervous and I'm very confident in my ability
to be like I'm and I wish everyone because I feel like
this should be a given, but I very much try to put people that
I'm in the ring with, including myself in positions to succeed
there. I mean, there's calculated risk
and everything, but I, I've seena little bit of your work like,
(09:56):
and we spoke and I'm like, OK, what do you feel comfortable
doing here, here, here? I and we, we leaned on those
things like I didn't, I didn't try and throw something that
would put us in a position that we could fall flat on our face.
I, I'm very, I'm very much confident in my ability to like
(10:18):
damage control in that way. And it's cool because like
there's, there's people that youknow, I'll be honest, I, I
doubted it and I still doubt it from time to time, like, because
you see, like those end of the year type lists come out and I
don't get sold here. Like, why aren't I on anybody's
list? But I do have the thought of
like, hey, man, maybe I'm just like not making the impression
(10:39):
that I used to be, or maybe I need to get myself out there a
little bit more because I'm not getting those type of tags and
things like that. Maybe I need to maybe there's
something that's passed me by that I need to go look at to,
you know, not to sound like the oldest man ever, but like I've
been wrestling 10 plus years. So maybe there's something I
(11:00):
need to step up to relate to thewrestlers that are coming up to
be more current. But all that to say, I those
people want to wrestle them thatlike put me in a certain light.
I try to look at it because I'm in those shoes too.
What would I want in that scenario?
(11:22):
Like when I'm wrestling I'll useSuzuki, or I wrestled Cardona or
I wrestled the Cologne brothers.OK, what about these scenarios
did I like or not like? What about these scenarios?
Would I would do what I want as the person in the passenger seat
almost, if that makes sense? Yeah, no, I definitely, I, I
(11:43):
understand. And like it's been funny too
because like I've kind of been able to like travel a little bit
and and work, like I said, we'renot around working and stuff
like that. And so like finally, like, I
think it was funny because afterworking with you and then like I
said, after there was like a couple matches I had in May
after working those matches. And then like, I sort of
(12:04):
realized like, all right, this is a thing that I can do.
I can help like I can, I can bring like my character.
And, and there was a lot of things being taught to me like,
and it's those, it's some thingsthat used to get taught in the
ring. It's not something that you go
to, you're going to go to practice.
You can you can practice these things, but like until you're
really into a situation where itcalls for, you're not really
(12:26):
going to know what to do. Like I'll, I'll give a perfect
example, right? So I was in a ring.
I was working Isaiah Wolf and like he was giving me
opportunities to like, you know,take shots, but I was not taking
no shots. I wasn't like really thinking
about those things. I was just kind of like, all
right, man, like I'm just, I'm just here for this, right?
And then I just getting so it was almost like this zero to
(12:49):
hero moment when I started to come back to, you know, come
back around. But after like working a match
with him, I was like, all right,you know what, like these are
things that I should really be focusing on.
So like recently bunch of matches that I'm working as a
babyface, like, all right, all right, well, you your hands are
up, up, there's one and they're like, oh, want to do it again.
(13:11):
All right, there we go. And then as on the heel side of
things, I'm like, all right, where can I give opportunities
to people to also capitalize on these same things that I need to
work on? And so like I was also working
in another match where like I legit with, you know, I hit a
person and I start realizing like, let me just go talk to
this ref real quick while I talk, like give him this
(13:33):
opportunity to like 1 catch his breath with two, like, you know,
I don't know, like, so I startedto think about these
opportunities too. And now I'm like, all right, so
this is starting to work. This is starting to work.
I was like, all right, I could start telling these stories a
little better. It's I don't know, to me, it's,
it's kind of come around to likethis fun side of things where
I'm like, all right, these are the things that everybody was
(13:53):
trying to teach me while I was in the ring, while I was still
trying to learn and understand. And now that I kind of get put
through the fire a little bit, I'm like, I'm starting to get
it. I'm starting to understand what
we're talking about. Here we go.
This is what we want. Because I remember like one time
in, in the ring and I'll listen,bro, I pull the curtain all the
way back. I don't really give a shit.
We were trading black and forth and you were like, you're
hidden. And then you're like, all right,
go ahead and write, even wait before you said all right,
(14:14):
you're like, hit me. Like I had already thrown a
strike back. And they're like, yeah, there
you go. And they're like, we're going
back and forth. And I was thinking about these
things the whole time. And I was so wrapped up in my
mind in the match that I was like forgetting to kind of
breathe in the moment until we were sitting down.
And then I bit your hand. And that's where I was like, all
right, we're back into this. We're we're starting to calm
(14:37):
this back down a little bit. I mean the, the art of wrestling
and it translates to whoever's watching, in my opinion at
least. I'm not the, you know, I, I
don't make the law of wrestling.But in my opinion, the art of
wrestling is found in the thingsthat are improvised or the
(14:58):
things that happen unexpectedly and how you react to them.
That's the art of wrestling, because you can you can go out
there and be like, I'm I'm goingto do you know, I'm going to
kick you in the face. I'm going to do this cool
moonsault and you're going to roll out of the way and you're
going to go for the slam. But I'm going to backflip out of
it. I'm going to hit you with my
move and all the stuff that's cool.
And then, you know, someone could go out there and they
(15:21):
could put like throw one punch at the right time and the people
eat that up way more. It's just that's what wrestling
is. It's not, it's, that's why I is
very difficult for me to catch on to certain aspects of
wrestling because in school, my,my mind always worked towards
things that were absolutes, thatwere like math or science, where
(15:44):
it's like, OK, you know, a + B =C and that's kind of A+B could
equal yellow. Like, it, it, it, it's an art.
It's not a science. And I'm like, there's certain
things that usually work, but itcould be anything, Yeah.
(16:05):
Yeah, there's, there's no doubt.There's like so many different
ways to like paint the color scheme.
Like as long as you understand like how the colors are going to
work together, like you can telllike whatever story you want.
And that's where like really, and I'll be fair, like my like
when I talk to people, we prettymuch go, it's to, to use, we, we
go A to B, like A-Z. Like we color the paints the way
(16:28):
we do it just because like, I'm like, listen, we're going to pay
it by numbers. We're going to play inside the
numbers and we just going to know like here's where we're at
and this is what we're building towards.
And then like we, we, you know, we, we, we call the match and
then we go outside and we and wedo it.
And I always throw in there likethe, the just in case, Emily,
like, yo, man, just in case something happens, this is what
we're going to look at doing. So we'll go Plan B with this and
(16:50):
then like, OK, cool. Not that it has to happen, but
it's definitely been the thoughtprocess of like, listen, if we
go out there and I and I'm and Itake the crowds and chair for me
and they start booming me anyway, we're going to make this
flip real quick and then I'm going to give what the people
want. And it's been kind of funny to
like to think about the aspect of like this could happen, but
(17:10):
it probably won't. But if it does, this is what
we're going to do this How wouldwhat we'll turn everything
around. And it is really much like the,
the A+B equals yellow. Like you have to kind of be
ready for all things, but then also be ready to like just work
on the fly sometimes, like when things are going down.
Yeah. And it's it's something that you
just have to, it's tough becauseit's not something you can
(17:34):
really work on in a training school.
It's something you have to do live in front of an audience.
It's just that's that's the the only way to really work on it.
Yeah, I mean 100% what's been like, what's been like So
(17:55):
because I remember I saw you recently dropped like your
championship from from grind, right?
And then like just the movementskeep going up.
Like how does the moonlight Sun like go for the next goal?
Like what's the next? I guess how do I put it?
Like where do we, Where do you go from here?
Yeah, that's, that's a conversation I have with myself
(18:18):
quite a bit. And it's something that I've
thought about very recently and I don't, I don't, I know what it
has to be, but I don't know how yet.
I have to, I have to find a way to get on bigger independence.
I work a lot of really cool places.
I wrestle a lot of really cool places, but for me to be able to
(18:41):
contribute more, I have to go bigger.
I don't know if that is necessarily always an
independent or if I find a company that a contract company
like say an N.W.A or a TNA or anAW or WWE or maybe that's
overseas work. It's, it's different things for
(19:03):
different people, but there's very much a in terms of what
exactly I'm doing, there's a ceiling that I'm like right at
that. If I can jump up, it'll be
really good. But it's always the question of
how I think. Like to reference what I said
(19:23):
earlier, controlling all the things I can control is, is
really big. I need to my wrestling needs to
be as good as it can be. My technique needs to be
impeccable. My physique and my diet and my
training need to be excellent. My promos in my speaking needs
to be excellent, but I think on top of all that, I need to take
(19:45):
more risks. That's what I've seen work for a
lot of people. There are there are wrestlers
that jump off the page in my opinion, because of a look or
like they're they're a really big in shape wrestler or they're
a wrestler that can do amazing acrobatic things.
They're a wrestler that has a unique charisma or personal
(20:08):
magnetism to where like. People can't stop paying
attention to them. But for everyone else, which I
put myself in the category of more like normal people, you
have to take risks and find waysto connect with our audience.
And what that is for me, I'm notsure yet.
(20:28):
I'm trying different things for sure.
I'm taking way more risks now interms of what I give to the
paying fan than I ever have, butit's kind of throwing stuff at
the wall to see what sticks. Yeah, and that I'll tell you
this, man, like I've been noticing like the size
difference, right? Like you talk about getting into
(20:48):
shape and getting like getting into.
I've been seeing like, you know,the work that you're putting in
the gym is paying off because I definitely see like where we're
thickening up, you know, I mean look like some gravy on the
chill Mead or something. But I, I mean, I do understand
too. It's, it's crazy though, because
like, I think for me, I always like, I always like to network
(21:09):
like a lot and then try to lean on that network as much as
possible. Well, not as much as possible.
I probably should, I could do more if I wanted to.
But like, as far as like, I don't know, it's weird for me
because like, I, I think about the things that I'm trying to do
and I pretty much share like allthe times from people, they're
always telling me like, hey, like keep doing the things
you're doing Kale or keep working, you know, keep keep
(21:30):
doing this, keep doing that. And to me, it's funny because
like I've I've heard other wrestlers who told me like when
wrestlers tell you that, like you should take it as an insult.
But I'm like, I don't know if I really am going to just because
like, if I'm going to keep working and keep grinding, like
I'll keep getting better, you know, as, as I go on.
And I guess for you, I don't know, to me, I always think of
(21:53):
you like I'm like, Dang, dude. Like the fact that you're not
like checked out, signed on or being tested and like other
waters kind of blows my mind because you have a look, you
have a character that you've already built, like put a whole
world around, you know, you're always adding new layers to it.
So I guess like, what would it be like?
(22:16):
I guess because I know for me, like 1 of the things I do, I get
nervous about like reaching out to other people and like trying
to like establish the new connections.
What do you think it is for you?That's like holding you back
from like going out there. Yeah.
Well, to reference what you saidabout taking, oh, keep doing
(22:36):
what you're doing. A lot of wrestlers now that came
up in the past, probably 10 or 15 years.
They're not. They're not.
They probably mean that face value because not a lot of them
are conniving enough to really play like that 5D chess with you
like that. It's just in my opinion, you
(23:00):
know, I know, or at least the way I look at it, I talked about
taking risks. That's something I wish I had
done more earlier. I wish I had bothered more
people in terms of asking for bookings or asking you to go
places. And it's I'm not saying it's too
late. These are things I'm playing
catch up on now, but it's I, I played it safe for a while and
(23:25):
you don't, you don't get better playing it safe.
You get, like I said, you get better taking risks and to learn
more and to see like a lot of things I've been missing, I need
that. I need that knowledge.
I need that that conversation and that advice and that
critique from people that have done it successfully for a while
(23:47):
and you don't get around those people staying in the same
spots, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, I do.
I do understand that. I got to do more.
I got to, I got to try differentthings because like, if I'm
being really honest, I could, I can kind of do what I'm doing
now and I could wrestle Indies at like I could be at the top of
(24:09):
the card on a lot of the Indies I'm on and have like a perfectly
good time and really enjoy myself and wrestle a lot of cool
matches for like the next 10 ishyears and just stay there and be
cool and it'll be fine. And I'll and I'll wrap it up and
I'll be like, Hey, man, like that was cool.
I, you know, I didn't make it toWWE.
(24:30):
I didn't make it to AW all thesethings, but I had a really cool
time and I wrestled some cool matches.
Or I could really like take a shot and I could, you know, take
some risks and be in some reallyuncomfortable situations and
maybe it'll pay off. Maybe it won't either.
Not everyone makes it. There are a lot of guys my, my
trainer says this and I think it's a really good point.
(24:50):
There are a lot of guys that play AAA baseball or play
American League hockey or play Canadian League football that
were really good, that were definitely good enough to be in
the NFL and they just never madeit.
And a lot of that's out of theirhands.
So, but what you can do is put every effort forth that you can
so that you know, when you're done wrestling, you know, you,
(25:13):
you don't have any regrets. You don't be like I should have
done this. Yeah, no, I definitely
understand that. It feels like it's for me, like
my character wise, like I've, I don't know, I guess I've never
been like, I've never showed a way of like trying to do
different things with my character.
And clearly my Instagram will tell you all the things that I
tried to throw the wall at. But like, I, I, I mean, I do
(25:34):
understand the world of like evolving and changing and adding
things to it and taking things out that doesn't make sense.
And then like taking like big risks on things.
And it's funny because like, I even talked about it.
Hi, Cindy. I talked about it at Kaiju.
I told her I was like, yo, how crazy would it be if, like, Red
(25:55):
Dog one day just came out as a stripper?
Like, what if he came out this, you know, a tank top with grey
sweatpants and some wrestling shoes.
That's it. Like, that's the look.
She was like, Oh my God, I don'tknow what I would do.
I was like, it could be fun. What?
What's the worst thing to happen?
(26:16):
It's one match. I mean, you know, when you
really look at it, Shawn Michaels was a male stripper and
just it just whittled down untilit was, it was still that, but
it was way more Shawn Michaels than it was like this art that
he had created for himself. Yeah, he would tell people he
(26:36):
was a sexy boy. You.
Know like people always talk about the Undertaker like the
undertaker like in his base formhe is he's a zombie, he's a he's
a mortician and through years and years and years and like all
the small changes and eventuallyhe's a biker and then eventually
he's like this weird, you know, biker zombie wizard like hybrid.
(27:02):
But you know, these things happen slowly over time, but
then you look back and like, oh man, I've come all this way from
what I was originally. So like the moonlight sun was
like a direct RIP off of Axel Rose.
Basically. That was what I patterned
everything off of. And right now it's I'm trying to
(27:23):
get away from this because I don't think that it's the best I
can present and I'm being very candid with you right now.
But it it got away from that andit'd be like right now it's,
it's very me. It's very me with like a few
loose like walls up, but it started out very like
caricature. See, that's the thing I saw
(27:46):
recently. Like I saw a photo of you with
your face paint and I was like, oh, I kind of like this look.
I like this like warrior type mentality face paint.
And I was like, this is this, this works.
I was like, it definitely took me a second to kind of realize
like what I was looking at and Iwas like, this is this is heavy.
(28:07):
This is going to. I was like, he needs to keep
this look and then he needs to go.
He needs to stay for a while. It's funny because like that's
the only the second time I've really done that.
And I did it last November and Iwas like, oh man, like I'm
waiting for if a bunch of people, especially like people
close to me that are going to belike, there are, there are
(28:29):
people thankfully in my life, inmy wrestling space, that if I'm
doing something dumb and be like, Hey, bro, that that looks
really dumb. And I was kind of waiting for
that. But I didn't get that.
A lot of them were like, Hey, keep messing with it and try it
and see what happens. And I'm like, cool.
So now I got to figure out I I'mgoing to keep doing it.
(28:51):
And I just got to figure out more of what it is and where we
go. And maybe maybe that's not my
decision. Maybe the the audience takes me
in a certain direction, but you know that's going to play out
and it's kind of exciting. I like it.
I like it a lot. I thought, like I said, looking
at it, I was like, OK, I see we've got all like the little
(29:11):
patterns that are going in there.
I like the the, I want to call it Native American look because
that's not a fair assessment to say to it.
But I like I said, I love like that indigenous aspect of it.
Like just this cold hearted Viking type look.
Now I'm just like, bro, this is when you figure when you I see
where we're going with it. And I was like, when you figure
(29:32):
out like the face painting, how it's going to look.
I was like, this is going to hitand it's going to hit heavy and
people would be like that fucking guy right there.
You got to have mom all your even though you should have my
shows. Now you got to have this fucking
guy on all your shows. Yeah, well, I mean, for a while
it was like, obviously I don't have long braided hair right
now. And that was that was kind of my
(29:54):
look for it. What like it was my look for
seven years. So I I shaved that off and I was
like just kind of wrestling likethis.
And I'm like, it's fine. Like I, I look like a wrestler,
but like there's nothing that stands out.
And I again, I'd wanted to do the face paint thing in a while.
There are a lot of people that I'm fans of that did it.
And I think I position myself ina way that like it doesn't seem
(30:15):
like a huge left turn. It's something that like it's a
big change, but it makes sense given what I've presented over
the years. So I'm like, OK, this can be my
thing that I can use to stand out.
The tough part about it is I don't wanna, I don't wanna hide
off of someone else's presentation either because
(30:36):
there are people out there. You can use the famous examples
like Sting, Balor, Mooda, all these guys.
But even on the Independence, there are guys like say a Rez or
dark STG that I think, or there there's another person to his
name is escaping me right now. And I apologize.
(30:56):
So if it's if, if I think of it later, I'll say it.
But there are a lot of guys out there that are doing like really
cool takes on it. And I don't want to, I don't
want to step on their toes at all.
They were they were doing longer.
They're doing before me and they're they're doing it so
cool. So I want to try and figure out
what my lane for that is. So that's what I'm working on
right now, yeah. And I, that's what I'm saying, I
(31:19):
was like, once you, once you figure that part out, I was
like, this is going to hit. And I was like, a lot of people
are going to be like, Yo, you got to, you should be watching
him. You should, you should check out
what he's doing right now. And I, I really, really believe
that stuff. I just want to see him like I'm
blowing smoke. But that definitely, like I
said, I see the, I see the thought process and I'm like, I
can't wait till he figures this part out.
This part's going to this going to this, going to fuck with so
(31:41):
many people when you get it. Appreciate that.
Yo, all right, so I'm going to take this over to one of my
favorite parts of this show, right?
Because the first time that we met, we actually our first time,
first interview we did, we did athree count podcast, 10 count
questions. This is going to be called pin
submit DQ. So I'm going to do is I'm going
to feed you 3 entities and you got to pin one, submit one and
(32:04):
DQ one. Yeah, so we're going to talk
about people who face paint. So yeah, you already brought the
names up and I just want to add to it.
So we're going to go with Sting,Finn, Balor, and the Great
Buddha. OK, so I'll ask you this.
I I understand the the DQ part. What in your opinion, what is
the the separation between pin and submit?
(32:26):
I mean one of them just taking the three count and the other
one's tapping out. So that's pretty much.
They're tapping out or I'm tapping.
Out. They're tapping out.
OK, Yeah, you're tapping out. That's that's tough because I
like all three of them a lot. I'm going to say, oh, I'm going
(32:53):
to say pin muda DQ sting. No, sorry, Pin Muda, submit,
Sting, DQ Balor, but by the smallest margin, because I
really like all three. So extremely unlikely event that
word gets out to them. I apologize, fellows.
Thank you. All don't worry, because like I,
I love, like bringing like all these different, like and also
(33:16):
like our next three, right, it'sgoing to be kind of fun.
So they'll be they'll they'll bea familiar path, right.
We're going to go with Scorpion,Sub Zero and Night.
Wolf man, I got to DQ Night wolfnight wolf rules but Scorpion
(33:36):
and Sting are like 2 of my two of my top two of my top three
Mortal Kombat characters so I got to go.
I got to go pin scorpion. Submit sub zero.
Yeah, submitting Sub Zero would be lit.
(34:01):
I just could not imagine seeing Sub Zero tap out and I'll just
be like, let's go say something to your brother.
Yeah. For those who know, you know, so
the last three that I want to pick is still going to be in the
same. Actually, it's not going to be
in the same world. I'm going to take it to to the
superheroes because this movie just came out.
So let's just go ahead and talk about it Thing, Human Torch and
(34:25):
Mr. Fantastic. Yeah, so I just saw this movie
and I'm not going to put any spoilers here because I don't,
I'm not that guy, but I really enjoyed that movie.
I I was a fan of the 2004 movie with Chris Evans, Michael
Chiklis, Jessica Alba and. Ian Yeah.
(34:47):
I thought this one did the IT was very faithful to the
characters and it was it played it a little safe, But I don't
hate that because I won't go toodeep into this because I'll I'll
go on a rant that I don't want to go on.
But it's nice to see a superheromovie that wasn't like just like
(35:09):
non-stop jokes, because once Thor Ragnarok came out,
everything was a comedy and not every superhero needs to be
that. This was just like a pretty
straightforward superhero movie and I I was cool with that.
So thing, Mr. Fantastic Human Torch, Yes.
Yep, Yep. My 3 big human, big human torch
(35:32):
guy. So I got to pin the torch, I got
AI, got a submit thing and then Reed Richards.
You're out of there. Paddle DQ.
I feel bad for John. John Krasinski's interpreter of
(35:56):
him bothered me. For some reason.
That whole scene in Strange bothered me, but I'm not the
only one. Yeah, and we won't have to dive
too much into this. My biggest my biggest problem
was is you're the smartest man, right?
And you legitimately were like, with one word, he can just
(36:17):
eradicate you. Why would you say that?
Why would you tell him? Why would you tell Wanda what
you're about to do? Even on top of that, Black Bolt
has trained his entire life to be disciplined about when he
does or does not speak. He he's not the also, can't you
breathe through your nose like this?
(36:38):
It's not he's not the type to like, freak out.
That's not that's very much the opposite of his personality.
But this could turn into nerd superhero talk real quick, so
I'll leave it there. Yeah, I was.
I was. I was very disappointed.
I was like, I'll read. You're not so smart.
Like I was so hyped for seeing John, just like, come on, man.
(36:59):
What? What are we doing?
Why are we doing this? So I can't wait to see like the
all the Richards together. And then just listen, John,
you're not there. And when you're not there, we're
all going to be like, yeah, shouldn't have said anything.
Yo. So what I need you to do is I
need you to let our listeners and our viewers know where they
(37:21):
go find you. Yeah, so first I will, I'm going
to plug my pro wrestling tee store because a lot of people
ask me to reprint certain designs and those designs that I
get asked about most often are on my pro wrestling tee store.
So you can order them in any size you want.
You can get them in tank top, long sleeve, they have all kinds
(37:42):
of options. They're great because as you
know, printing T-shirts is expensive and I can only do so
many at a time and I just printed 2 new designs.
So go on my pro wrestling tee store.
I got cool designs in there. Buy those before you you come to
the merch table and ask me. But you I advertise all the
shows I'm at. You can find me if you want to
(38:04):
find me on the road. Great place to look.
Pro wrestling, Grind, Immortal, Green Mountain wrestling are
three that I've been frequentingthis year a ton.
So those I'm very thankful. Also one up wrestling, I've
messed around at some 3 legacieswrestling, smash master
wrestling in northeastern PA andsome more places to come.
(38:26):
But if you want to find me on socials you can find me
everywhere at Mike Skyros, MIKESKYROS, Facebook, Instagram,
Twitter, blue sky. I'm not really active on TikTok,
TikTok in terms of posting different stuff, but I'm there.
I like to just watch stuff on there.
And then I do have a Discord page as well that's kind of like
(38:49):
a one stop shop for like upcoming bookings.
I got some behind the scenes stuff.
I got some blogs, I got some some unseen match footage, so
that's available too. Nice.
Yeah, Well, like every great part of a wrestling match
because he just told you everything that where you can
find him and you should because he's great.
(39:09):
But like every great part of a wrestling match, we had to take
this home because this is now entering 201 and I'm your host,
Clifford, a red dog Miller, the man that leads you up that mount
to go wrestling. Also, if you're wondering why my
voice sounds like this, it's because when you go to a ring
and you bump a bunch back-to-back days, Mike will
(39:31):
tell you too. Your vocal cords kind of get
damaged up a little bit and thenyou know.
What's up it is you're from the neighborhood red dog and thank
you for checking out this episode of the three count
pocket whether or not was Chad'sfriends, red dog friends dating
and friends to film stash down into the ring down into 201 or
now returning to the ring. You know, all those good
episodes. You should really be.
Liking, commenting and even sharing this with your friends,
(39:51):
family, whoever it may be. But what you all should be doing
is checking us out on all of ourfrom your platforms at 3 count
pod, whether that's on IG, twitch, you know, you check us
out on threads, whatever may be.And if you go check us out on X,
it is 3 count under score pod. Check us out on YouTube as well
as Facebook on rumble, on Apple Music, on Spotify, all those fun
(40:11):
things, you know, tell your mom about us, your dad about us,
your aunties, your unloaded brothers, sisters, your cousins
and your best friends and your enemies, because we love haters
too. Do all that stuff.
And then, you know, last but notleast by our merge on for
youwear.com, O core redsmithuse.com.
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Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
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