How to Turn Pain Into Purpose: Jessie Torres on Presence, Forgiveness & the 7-Day Fierce Grace Reset
November 4, 2025 • 26 mins
We challenge the lie that achievement proves worth and show how presence, forgiveness, and gratitude rebuild a meaningful life. Jessie Torres shares raw stories and a practical seven-day reset to turn pain into purpose without bypassing the hard parts.
• Linking self-worth to achievement as a hidden block
• Early warning signs of burnout and disconnection
• Fierce independence versus true presence at home
• Humility and honesty as accelerators of change
• Forgiveness as releasing the hold of the past
• Finding the gift without denying pain
• Gratitude as a nervous system reset
• Mapping first memories of unsafety and armor
• Seven-day fierce grace micro actions for momentum
Connect with Jessie:
https://unshakeablelife.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:04):
Welcome to the Five Questions Podcast.
I am your host, Mario Lamar.
Our guest on today's show is awisdom guide, peak performance
coach who has helped eyeachievers dissolve inner blocks
and create soul freedom so theycan actually live the life
they're building.
She's the founder of FierceGrace Transformation as coached
(00:26):
thousands worldwide and blendsmindset, somatic healing, and no
fluff strategies to turn traumainto power and purpose.
Welcome, Jesse Torres.
Jesse, welcome to the showtoday.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Thank you so much.
Excited to be here.
Thank you for having me, Mario.
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Jesse, the concept of the podcast is real simple.
I ask five questions.
Um in this case, we'll talkabout business, what your
business does, and we getstraight to the point.
You ready?
SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Got it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Okay.
First questions I ask I have foryou is you talk about removing
blocks and limitations so peoplecan live their dreams.
Uh, what's the most commonhidden block you see in
iPerformers?
And maybe how do they spot uhhow can they spot it themselves
(01:20):
today?
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
Absolutely.
Uh, one of the hidden blocks isthat achievement will give them
significance and worthiness.
They don't realize it, right?
They were built, maybe they haduh a life where they had a
father that was very demanding,you know, or a mother that was
only pleased if they broughthome straight A's or if they got
(01:42):
the job done.
And so now they're in a spacewhere they're it's amazing,
they're great achievers, theybuilt a good muscle, but what
they don't realize is thatthey're actually chasing that
I'm enough on the achievement.
So it's never enough because youcan't get the worthiness out of
the achievement.
You get significance, you feelgood, yeah, but it doesn't
(02:03):
fulfill the part of us that isin self-judgment.
So what happens is you stackanother achievement on there,
and then you stack another one,and it's a cat chasing its tail,
and it's the biggest cause ofburnout.
So in high achievers, the answeralways is, I'll just do more.
I'll just get another accolade,I'll just hit another milestone,
and then I'll feel enough.
And they don't realize that it'snot the actual achievement
(02:26):
they're chasing, they're chasingthat self-worth on that
achievement, and it'sexhausting.
It's a cat chasing its tail, itwill never be enough.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
So, what's the what's the the point where you
you get that you can kind of seeit on your on your own uh before
you get too far into theburnout?
How can you pinpoint that youknow that that spot?
I don't know the proper word touse, but before you get too far
in, and then you're like, youknow, you're you're practically
(02:57):
close to burnout.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Well, I'll tell you a story of a past client.
Um, she was a high-levelachiever.
She had hit her$5 million mark,and so she was super excited
about that.
But her husband was about toleave her.
Um, on paper, on Facebook, shewas physically fit, awesome
body, awesome career, hit thatmilestone.
(03:20):
She has two sons and a husband,and it showed the family
pictures and all that stuff.
But her husband was ready toleave her because she was at the
soccer game, but she was on herphone the whole time.
They were disconnected, theyweren't having intimacy, and all
she was concerned about washitting that next milestone, or
she was competing not only withother women, she was competing
(03:44):
with a relative and she wascompeting with her version of
herself last year.
If she hit a specific milestonelast year, she had to go above
and beyond that.
So she was at home takingpictures of the family, but she
was not present.
And so it created separation,and everything about her life
was her work, not her family.
(04:05):
So she was about to lose it all.
And so for her, that was amoment of like, oh God, you
know, like my husband, he's he'sreached threshold.
Now that's one way.
Another way is massiveexhaustion, where you're just
literally you're on an airplaneall the time, you're not
connecting, your kids aregrowing without you.
Um, you're like trying to juggleit all at once.
(04:26):
You're trying to go to the nextmilestone, but you're trying to
be at the soccer game.
And so you can't be present foreither because when you're at
the soccer game, you'rethinking, I should get this
done, that done, right?
Or when you're at work, you'rethinking, man, I should be home
with the kids, or I should behome with my husband.
And so it's unfulfilling and itcauses contraction, um, and
you're living in a high cortisollevel life.
(04:48):
So either it'll show up inexhaustion or it'll show up in
some sort of autoimmune or orsome other coping mechanism.
SPEAKER_01 (04:55):
So, yeah, always take the a little bit of time to
self-analyze yourself umperiodically to make sure that
you're you're not doing too muchor you're you're actually on
track of your success life, notin success, when I say success,
not in in achievements, but inuh you know being happy in your
(05:18):
life.
Yeah, very much.
Second question I have for you.
Uh, we're gonna talk aboutindependence.
Fierce independence cansometimes push love and support
away.
You mentioned a little bit inthat story you just said.
How can uh driven people staypowerful without armoring or
(05:40):
locking their hearts?
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
Again, it's the belief that if I do more and we
convince ourselves that it's forthe family.
I'm doing this for my family.
If I just keep going and I just,you know, I'll buy my
16-year-old her own car, thenthat'll make me a great dad or a
great mom, right?
And so we have this belief likeI gotta keep going.
It's it's um that lone wolffeeling of like nobody gets me.
(06:08):
I'm doing it for the family.
This is for them.
And what they don't realize isthat what the family wants is
their presence, right?
We take it for granted.
It's just like I'm present allday.
I said we have breakfasttogether, and yeah, sometimes
breakfast is kids eatingwhatever cereal and you're on
your phone checking the news oryou're reading the paper or
whatever, and you think, oh, Ispend breakfast with them every
(06:29):
day.
But you're not actually reallythere.
How often do you get on theirlevel?
How often do you ask them whattheir day, what's the best part
of their day, and let themexpress, right?
That presence is everything, andwe take it for granted.
We think that just by physicallybeing present, we're doing
enough and we're not.
And so our our family wantsconnection, our family wants to
know that you care about thefact that you know what, I got
(06:52):
an A on that exam that I studiedfor, you know, and those kind of
things, and they're super, superimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
You know, it it's it's so true because just
yesterday, I've been on the roadfor for a week and a half.
I came back home and I said, uh,go for a walk with my fiance.
And in my head, I said, I'm notgonna, you know, I'm gonna be
present, we're gonna talktogether, go for a walk.
And and what happens?
(07:19):
I picked up a phone call where Ishouldn't have picked it up, I
should have dedicated that time.
And sometimes we have to makeconscious decisions.
And if if there is, uh, I wouldcall it a test or you know, a
phone call that came in, you I'mguilty of that too.
But the right thing would havebeen do not answer and and
(07:41):
really focus on uh the present,like you said, and for for you
know to to to to give qualitytime to the people you love.
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
Well, and I think the misconception is this is an
emergency, you know.
If I don't answer it, somethingwon't get resolved.
And it's like, you know, whatwas it, a 30-minute walk, right?
It could 20 minutes in in notanswering the phone and being
able to answer it when you canbe fully present, because the
bottom line is you weren't fullypresent for the call either,
because you knew you were takingit while your fiance was there,
(08:12):
right?
So part of your presence waswith her, right?
So that's the thing that we haveto get clear on.
We think, no, I can handle both.
You can't.
You're your energy being pulled.
So um, it's so important to lookat it that way and really like
if I'm gonna be with my wife for30 minutes, I'm gonna be with my
wife.
Because if I take that phonecall, now I'm splitting my time
with her and I'm splitting mytime with the call.
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
You're absolutely right.
You know what happened is I shestopped at the light and I
continued walking, and I had toturn around and see where she
was.
So you're absolutely right.
I was, you know, and then andthen I got confused, and then
I'm the phone call.
I was I started, you know, uhmumbling my words, and I'm like,
I I was I got sturdled, right?
(08:55):
Because I'm like, oh crap, sheshe's uh she's back there.
I have to go back.
So you're right.
You're not fully present ineither scenario, so it's not
good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Third question I have for you.
Uh you've coached thousands uharound the world, and over
nearly two decades, whatpatterns separate those who
(09:18):
transforms quickly from thosewho stay stuck uh even with the
same tools that you give them?
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
I think it's it's humility and honesty, right?
Like even on my website, I giveyou three reasons to not work
with me.
One is if you're not willing tolet the past go, two, if you're
stuck in the blame game, right?
And three, if you're not willingto write a new story for your
life, right?
(09:47):
So sometimes we want thetransformation.
We think, okay, I'm gonna dothis thing, but we're not
willing to forgive somebody.
And we don't realize the damagethat unforgiveness does.
We tell ourselves, no, itdoesn't bother me, right?
I coached a gentleman who wasabout 420 pounds.
Okay, he needed one of thosescooters to come to the seminar.
And um, in a room full ofpeople, he's like, I don't need
(10:10):
to forgive.
My mom lives two blocks down thestreet from me.
I drive by her every day.
I really don't care.
I don't care.
It doesn't bother me that she'sthere.
I don't never go see her,whatever.
And I had rapport, so I I said,Jay, with all due respect,
you're wearing yourunforgiveness.
And he started bawling, right?
Because again, that thatfeeling, because who we are is
(10:34):
love innately.
That's who we are.
But we're we're taught to hate,we're born in love, right?
So when we come to that place ofanger or hurt, deep hurt,
because that is the root ofanger, we forget, we lose our
way to come back to love.
And forgiveness is notcondoning, it's not accepting
what happened, it's merelyreleasing the hold that it has
(10:56):
on us.
And we think that forgiveness isletting the other person off the
hook.
It's not anything to do with theother person, it's with our own
well-being.
I tell my mother this all thetime, right?
Because it's hard for her tobelieve that I forgave my
father.
And she wants me to be angrywith him.
Uh, she wants me to be angryabout him with her, right?
(11:18):
She's angry, so she's like, Howcould I not join her in her
anger?
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
I'm like, no, because I've forgiven.
And I said, and you don't do meany service.
There's no nobility in yousuffering and using me as your
vehicle.
Like, it doesn't make me happyto know that you're angry.
It hurts me to know that you'reholding on to that.
And I would love for you toforgive, but don't use me as the
tool to stay angry because itdoesn't serve.
Forgiveness is not condoningwhat happened.
(11:43):
Forgiveness is for you torelease the hold it has on you
and what it's doing to your bodyand to your mindset.
SPEAKER_01 (11:49):
So once you use humility, you used, like you
said, true forgiveness, that'swhere you see the difference or
the quick transformation betweenthose who apply this and those
who who get stuck.
And and and and I I agree withyou.
I I saw some, even in myself, insome situations in the past, uh,
(12:13):
when you do truly move on, uh,things happen very quick in your
life, changes, whatever it is,if it's your in professional
settings or personal settings.
Um, I agree with that.
It's you have to truly let go.
And sometimes you saidforgiveness, is it a superficial
(12:34):
forgiveness or is it a deepforgiveness?
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
Well, I think the tipping point to answer that um
is forgiveness, because somepeople say, no, I forgave a long
time ago, da-da-da.
But you can see it in theirbehavior that they are still
contracted when talking aboutthat person or they're still
right.
So I think true forgivenesscomes when you're able to find
the gift in what happened.
Right.
So if I say the abuse I had withmy father, for me to truly
(13:01):
forgive, I have to find thegift.
What's the good in it?
Why did this happen?
Why did this behavior, why wasthat a part of my life?
And maybe it was for me tounderstand shame at very
profound levels because of whathappened to me.
I adopted that I was gross,filthy, and nobody would ever
love me.
That's what I, the meaning Igave what happened to me with my
(13:22):
father.
So I know the visceral effectsof unworthiness.
I know what it feels like to bein shame about who I am, so that
I can help others transmute it.
If I can come out of that tofalling in love with not only
myself, but with humanity, socan you.
So the gift is I maybe mycontract with God was that I was
(13:45):
meant to go through it, not justread about it.
Right?
There's difference, there's adifference between climbing
Mount Everest and reading aboutclimbing Mount Everest, right?
It's two very different things.
So for me, I went through it andI told my mother this.
I'm like, you know, and I toldmy father before he passed, you
know, he said, I wish, you know,two weeks before he died, he had
leukemia and bits of dementia.
(14:07):
And he had a lucid moment when Iwas with him alone.
And he said, You know, I wish Iwish I could have been the
father you deserve.
And I said, Dad, you wereperfect.
You were exactly who I neededyou to be, so I could be who I
am today, and I'm good, youknow.
And so I don't know that I wouldchange anything of my past
because I couldn't be who I am,fully committed and convicted to
(14:28):
helping humanity get out ofsuffering.
Yeah.
So you got to find the gift inorder to truly forgive and let
go.
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
That's guys, for for those who are listening to this
podcast, what you just heard isvery powerful.
Uh, take a moment, uh, put it onpause and reflect on what was
just said.
Uh, once you can understand uhthe meaning of what Jesse just
said, uh you could transform andlet go of the past if you're
(14:58):
dealing with something.
It's very powerful.
SPEAKER_00 (15:02):
And I do want to say one more thing about that,
Mario, because I know there'speople out there that are like,
well, you don't understand.
You don't know what I've beenthrough.
You don't know how horrible itwas.
And you're right.
I don't know what you've beenthrough, but I know what it is
to have sexual abuse.
I know what it is to have abrother murdered, two brothers
murdered, 30 years apart, andstill find forgiveness.
(15:23):
So you're right.
I don't know your personalexperience, but I but I do
believe that God in the universeis for us, not against us.
And if that's true, then thereis something there.
Maybe my brother's contract withGod was that his death was more
impactful, right, to me, to wakeme up to be the person that
serves the many.
I don't know, but I do know thatI had 29 glorious years with
(15:46):
him, and that after that I getto choose what I do with the
loss of him.
I could be angry, I could beupset, and I was for a while, or
I can find the beauty and I canfind the gift, and I can find
what it gave me to lose him andto still stand up and love him
and miss him every single day,but to be able to help and serve
others with grief.
SPEAKER_01 (16:05):
That that is uh very powerful.
Thank you for that, Jesse.
Uh let's uh go to questionnumber four.
Uh, for someone carrying apainful story, we just talked
about a bunch of differentscenarios.
What is the first practical stepto uh alchemize the pain into
purpose?
(16:26):
What you just said.
Let's go deeper into that uhthat that question.
And before um maybe hiring acoach or joining a program, what
do someone needs to do beforethey make a decision to go work
with someone with their theirpro whatever their problem is?
SPEAKER_00 (16:46):
I think that it's important when sometimes the
pain is still so loud, right?
It still feels so heavy and itit feels like there's no way
out.
I'll never let this go.
I I don't want to get out ofbed.
Physically, I'm hurting.
If you find five things to begrateful for.
(17:07):
So sometimes we feel the onlyway out of our pain is to go
directly into what happened.
Sometimes that's too hard.
I can't, I can't see it.
It's still too painful.
So it's we're gonna work onthis, but without the ability to
open our hearts just a littlebit enough to find gratitude for
(17:27):
the fact that we opened oureyes, for the fact that you know
we have maybe a friend thatloves us, for the fact that we
have a comfortable bed, for thefact that you can hear the birds
chirping, right?
You start to open your heart ingratitude.
Gratitude's a healer.
And if you can just start to dothat, journal five things a day,
what you're grateful for, andyou start to open your heart and
(17:48):
soften the edges a little bit,then maybe you can take one
portion of it and now start tolook at it, right?
But sometimes we feel it's tooconfronting to say somebody got
you know gang raped, just likeyou want me to go in there and
forgive.
I hate those people, and Godforbid you ended up pregnant.
You know what I mean?
It's just like it's it's hard tosay, you know what, you just
(18:08):
need to forgive, you know,everything has a purpose.
It doesn't work that way.
So sometimes we have to takethose baby steps to open our
hearts back up because if wedon't look for the gift in our
life, then all we see is thepain.
And so if we can just create anopening that helps to take the
steps.
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
I was just gonna say the the exact example of
learning how to walk again orriding a bike again for the
first time.
Well, yeah, it being grateful,like you said, uh learning how
to be grateful again, becausethat could be erased in a matter
of seconds or minutes with thetraumatic situation that someone
(18:49):
goes through.
Right.
By you appreciating the smallthings, then you'll get some
later on appreciate the biggerthe bigger things.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
Yes, and just to note, when my older brother was
murdered 30 years ago, um Iturned my back on God.
You know, I was raised Catholic,I was then Christian at the
time.
Now I consider myself morespiritual than I do religious,
but I honor everybody's journey.
But at that time, I flipped Godoff.
(19:22):
I was like, I don't even know ifyou exist.
What if there's nothing?
What if there's just wormscrawling out of our eyes holes?
We get buried six feet under.
I don't freaking know.
And if you do exist, God, I hateyou for taking my brother.
That was my perspective.
So I get it, right?
Faith is a tough one becauseit's etheric, it's a feeling,
it's a knowing.
And it's in my pain, I couldn'tfeel the presence of God or our
(19:45):
creator or source.
I couldn't feel it because mypain was so profound.
And it was a moment where mybrother showed himself to me,
and all he did was gesture withhis arms, and there was this
white and it was beautiful, andand I it's like it wasn't like I
can see clearly, but it was, Icould tell there was other
essences there.
And all he did was point withhis hands, and he says, Jess,
(20:06):
everything is as it's supposedto be.
And at the time I didn't knowwhat it meant, but it brought me
peace, and I knew he was okay.
So pull on your faith, pull onknowing that God is a gracious
God and that it is all in loveand for you, even when the pain
is so profound.
SPEAKER_01 (20:22):
You know, again, I I connect with a lot of things
that you say because uh thathappened to me too, you know.
A lot of people I feelassociates religion with
spirituality, and this issomething that I'm still working
on, to be uh perfectly honest.
Uh we were I was brought in acertain religion that I
(20:47):
associated, I associated, and Istill sometimes associate God
with that, and I can't move onfrom there, as if, oh well, if
I'm gonna talk to God now, I Ihave to, that means I still
believe in what I was wastalking about yeah, the
doctrine, which I don't want to.
So it's very it's very tough forpeople to to bring God or
(21:12):
spirituality back in their lifewithout attaching it to their
past experience because itdoesn't have to be.
It doesn't have to be, itdoesn't mean like you said, now
you consider yourself morespiritual than than religious.
Uh and that and I guess that'suh something that's getting more
(21:33):
common with people nowadays, butit's it's a transformation, you
have to learn uh how to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:39):
Yeah, and I just kind of see it as God.
If we believe that God is theessence of everything, be pure
and beautiful, the religion putsguidelines on them, or it puts
bumper pads or rules.
And I'm just like, I just I justgo to the connection of what it
is and what falls in line withthat, with which is the essence
(22:03):
of love, the essence of purity,which is the essence of
magnificence, of everythingglorious, right?
And with those lenses, I behavewithin the guidelines that are
written by man, right?
So, and and there's different uhperspectives on that.
Mine is just with one.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
That's great.
Final question for today, Jesse.
Um, if we gave listeners aseven-day uh fierce grace reset,
what would the daily microactions uh to be to create a
real momentum for for let's saythe next week?
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
Absolutely.
Well, again, I would start withgratitude.
Um, and part of it isrecognizing that this life is
precious, right?
We've had some recent tragedieshere, and it's it's kind of
awakening what is the woundingin every person, right?
It's like when we're barkinghatred, when we're barking
things that are really dark,that you're just shocked that
(23:06):
people are saying, I believethat it is a vehicle being used
to wake up the pain that Allahalready lives within, right?
So we can shift and start tosoften our hearts with that
gratitude moment.
Then we're going to startlooking into ways to
forgiveness.
But we first have to understandour own sovereignty.
Where did we lose safety?
(23:28):
That's our first essence of ashake up, right?
A little kid is loved by theirparents in the purity of their
home, goes to kindergarten orpreschool, and another kid takes
his lunchbox.
In that moment, unsafety.
Oh, why would somebody be mean?
Why would somebody take mylunchbox?
Why don't they like me?
They ate my favorite snack,right?
So hypervigilance begins.
(23:50):
Now, next day he goes to school,he's gripping his lunch pail a
little tighter.
He's just like, I'm afraid now.
So unsafety has rocked theworld.
So, where has unsafety began?
And we take those baby steps ofunderstanding that because the
rest of our lives, that unsafetycreates a piece of armor around
our heart.
Now we're protecting, right?
And what happens is throughoutour journey, that those pieces
(24:11):
of armor get so thick that itmoves us away from who we think
we are.
We are still that divinity, weare still that perfection, but
now we have a hypervigilancewrapped around it so much that
we develop an identity aroundour wounding versus an identity
around the purity of who we are.
So we have to get clear on thosethings because what we don't
(24:32):
realize is that our limitationtoday, there's an invisible
thread connected to a part inthe past where unsafety was
created.
And so we have to unravel that,we have to heal that, we have to
give the child what it needs.
And so we take baby steps to dothat.
So you start to pull back yourpower and you start to see
yourself through the lenses ofdivine perfection because that's
(24:54):
what we are.
If you look at an infant, thereis no wrong, it's perfect.
I was holding my uh friend sixdays old, six days, right?
His name is Timothy, and he'sgot these beautiful little
knuckles, and I'm looking at himand adoring in my mind.
I said, divine perfection.
And then I thought, what makesus any different?
Absolutely nothing, only thebelief.
(25:15):
So if we can start to break downthat armor, we can come back to
the purity of our own essence.
And it's the most beautifulthing to watch when people you
see the softening on theircheeks, and you see that they
come back to their ownself-acceptance.
It's it's just glorious.
And from that point, there'snothing you can't do.
SPEAKER_01 (25:33):
It was a true pleasure to talk with you today.
Um, lots of deep conversations.
I hope that our listeners uhwill take a nugget of advice, of
knowledge, of uh um even uh pastexperience and and use it on
(25:53):
their journey to betterthemselves.
Uh again, Jesse, thank you somuch for taking the time to be
with us on the Five QuestionsPodcast.
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me, Mario.
SPEAKER_01 (26:05):
Thank you.
We'll talk soon.
Okay.
Welcome to the Five Questions Podcast.
I am your host, Mario Lamar.
Our guest on today's show is awisdom guide, peak performance
coach who has helped eyeachievers dissolve inner blocks
and create soul freedom so theycan actually live the life
they're building.
She's the founder of FierceGrace Transformation as coached
(00:26):
thousands worldwide and blendsmindset, somatic healing, and no
fluff strategies to turn traumainto power and purpose.
Welcome, Jesse Torres.
Jesse, welcome to the showtoday.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Thank you so much.
Excited to be here.
Thank you for having me, Mario.
SPEAKER_01 (00:44):
Jesse, the concept of the podcast is real simple.
I ask five questions.
Um in this case, we'll talkabout business, what your
business does, and we getstraight to the point.
You ready?
SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Got it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Okay.
First questions I ask I have foryou is you talk about removing
blocks and limitations so peoplecan live their dreams.
Uh, what's the most commonhidden block you see in
iPerformers?
And maybe how do they spot uhhow can they spot it themselves
(01:20):
today?
SPEAKER_00 (01:22):
Absolutely.
Uh, one of the hidden blocks isthat achievement will give them
significance and worthiness.
They don't realize it, right?
They were built, maybe they haduh a life where they had a
father that was very demanding,you know, or a mother that was
only pleased if they broughthome straight A's or if they got
(01:42):
the job done.
And so now they're in a spacewhere they're it's amazing,
they're great achievers, theybuilt a good muscle, but what
they don't realize is thatthey're actually chasing that
I'm enough on the achievement.
So it's never enough because youcan't get the worthiness out of
the achievement.
You get significance, you feelgood, yeah, but it doesn't
(02:03):
fulfill the part of us that isin self-judgment.
So what happens is you stackanother achievement on there,
and then you stack another one,and it's a cat chasing its tail,
and it's the biggest cause ofburnout.
So in high achievers, the answeralways is, I'll just do more.
I'll just get another accolade,I'll just hit another milestone,
and then I'll feel enough.
And they don't realize that it'snot the actual achievement
(02:26):
they're chasing, they're chasingthat self-worth on that
achievement, and it'sexhausting.
It's a cat chasing its tail, itwill never be enough.
SPEAKER_01 (02:34):
So, what's the what's the the point where you
you get that you can kind of seeit on your on your own uh before
you get too far into theburnout?
How can you pinpoint that youknow that that spot?
I don't know the proper word touse, but before you get too far
in, and then you're like, youknow, you're you're practically
(02:57):
close to burnout.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Well, I'll tell you a story of a past client.
Um, she was a high-levelachiever.
She had hit her$5 million mark,and so she was super excited
about that.
But her husband was about toleave her.
Um, on paper, on Facebook, shewas physically fit, awesome
body, awesome career, hit thatmilestone.
(03:20):
She has two sons and a husband,and it showed the family
pictures and all that stuff.
But her husband was ready toleave her because she was at the
soccer game, but she was on herphone the whole time.
They were disconnected, theyweren't having intimacy, and all
she was concerned about washitting that next milestone, or
she was competing not only withother women, she was competing
(03:44):
with a relative and she wascompeting with her version of
herself last year.
If she hit a specific milestonelast year, she had to go above
and beyond that.
So she was at home takingpictures of the family, but she
was not present.
And so it created separation,and everything about her life
was her work, not her family.
(04:05):
So she was about to lose it all.
And so for her, that was amoment of like, oh God, you
know, like my husband, he's he'sreached threshold.
Now that's one way.
Another way is massiveexhaustion, where you're just
literally you're on an airplaneall the time, you're not
connecting, your kids aregrowing without you.
Um, you're like trying to juggleit all at once.
(04:26):
You're trying to go to the nextmilestone, but you're trying to
be at the soccer game.
And so you can't be present foreither because when you're at
the soccer game, you'rethinking, I should get this
done, that done, right?
Or when you're at work, you'rethinking, man, I should be home
with the kids, or I should behome with my husband.
And so it's unfulfilling and itcauses contraction, um, and
you're living in a high cortisollevel life.
(04:48):
So either it'll show up inexhaustion or it'll show up in
some sort of autoimmune or orsome other coping mechanism.
SPEAKER_01 (04:55):
So, yeah, always take the a little bit of time to
self-analyze yourself umperiodically to make sure that
you're you're not doing too muchor you're you're actually on
track of your success life, notin success, when I say success,
not in in achievements, but inuh you know being happy in your
(05:18):
life.
Yeah, very much.
Second question I have for you.
Uh, we're gonna talk aboutindependence.
Fierce independence cansometimes push love and support
away.
You mentioned a little bit inthat story you just said.
How can uh driven people staypowerful without armoring or
(05:40):
locking their hearts?
SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
Again, it's the belief that if I do more and we
convince ourselves that it's forthe family.
I'm doing this for my family.
If I just keep going and I just,you know, I'll buy my
16-year-old her own car, thenthat'll make me a great dad or a
great mom, right?
And so we have this belief likeI gotta keep going.
It's it's um that lone wolffeeling of like nobody gets me.
(06:08):
I'm doing it for the family.
This is for them.
And what they don't realize isthat what the family wants is
their presence, right?
We take it for granted.
It's just like I'm present allday.
I said we have breakfasttogether, and yeah, sometimes
breakfast is kids eatingwhatever cereal and you're on
your phone checking the news oryou're reading the paper or
whatever, and you think, oh, Ispend breakfast with them every
(06:29):
day.
But you're not actually reallythere.
How often do you get on theirlevel?
How often do you ask them whattheir day, what's the best part
of their day, and let themexpress, right?
That presence is everything, andwe take it for granted.
We think that just by physicallybeing present, we're doing
enough and we're not.
And so our our family wantsconnection, our family wants to
know that you care about thefact that you know what, I got
(06:52):
an A on that exam that I studiedfor, you know, and those kind of
things, and they're super, superimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (06:58):
You know, it it's it's so true because just
yesterday, I've been on the roadfor for a week and a half.
I came back home and I said, uh,go for a walk with my fiance.
And in my head, I said, I'm notgonna, you know, I'm gonna be
present, we're gonna talktogether, go for a walk.
And and what happens?
(07:19):
I picked up a phone call where Ishouldn't have picked it up, I
should have dedicated that time.
And sometimes we have to makeconscious decisions.
And if if there is, uh, I wouldcall it a test or you know, a
phone call that came in, you I'mguilty of that too.
But the right thing would havebeen do not answer and and
(07:41):
really focus on uh the present,like you said, and for for you
know to to to to give qualitytime to the people you love.
SPEAKER_00 (07:50):
Well, and I think the misconception is this is an
emergency, you know.
If I don't answer it, somethingwon't get resolved.
And it's like, you know, whatwas it, a 30-minute walk, right?
It could 20 minutes in in notanswering the phone and being
able to answer it when you canbe fully present, because the
bottom line is you weren't fullypresent for the call either,
because you knew you were takingit while your fiance was there,
(08:12):
right?
So part of your presence waswith her, right?
So that's the thing that we haveto get clear on.
We think, no, I can handle both.
You can't.
You're your energy being pulled.
So um, it's so important to lookat it that way and really like
if I'm gonna be with my wife for30 minutes, I'm gonna be with my
wife.
Because if I take that phonecall, now I'm splitting my time
with her and I'm splitting mytime with the call.
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
You're absolutely right.
You know what happened is I shestopped at the light and I
continued walking, and I had toturn around and see where she
was.
So you're absolutely right.
I was, you know, and then andthen I got confused, and then
I'm the phone call.
I was I started, you know, uhmumbling my words, and I'm like,
I I was I got sturdled, right?
(08:55):
Because I'm like, oh crap, sheshe's uh she's back there.
I have to go back.
So you're right.
You're not fully present ineither scenario, so it's not
good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Third question I have for you.
Uh you've coached thousands uharound the world, and over
nearly two decades, whatpatterns separate those who
(09:18):
transforms quickly from thosewho stay stuck uh even with the
same tools that you give them?
SPEAKER_00 (09:27):
I think it's it's humility and honesty, right?
Like even on my website, I giveyou three reasons to not work
with me.
One is if you're not willing tolet the past go, two, if you're
stuck in the blame game, right?
And three, if you're not willingto write a new story for your
life, right?
(09:47):
So sometimes we want thetransformation.
We think, okay, I'm gonna dothis thing, but we're not
willing to forgive somebody.
And we don't realize the damagethat unforgiveness does.
We tell ourselves, no, itdoesn't bother me, right?
I coached a gentleman who wasabout 420 pounds.
Okay, he needed one of thosescooters to come to the seminar.
And um, in a room full ofpeople, he's like, I don't need
(10:10):
to forgive.
My mom lives two blocks down thestreet from me.
I drive by her every day.
I really don't care.
I don't care.
It doesn't bother me that she'sthere.
I don't never go see her,whatever.
And I had rapport, so I I said,Jay, with all due respect,
you're wearing yourunforgiveness.
And he started bawling, right?
Because again, that thatfeeling, because who we are is
(10:34):
love innately.
That's who we are.
But we're we're taught to hate,we're born in love, right?
So when we come to that place ofanger or hurt, deep hurt,
because that is the root ofanger, we forget, we lose our
way to come back to love.
And forgiveness is notcondoning, it's not accepting
what happened, it's merelyreleasing the hold that it has
(10:56):
on us.
And we think that forgiveness isletting the other person off the
hook.
It's not anything to do with theother person, it's with our own
well-being.
I tell my mother this all thetime, right?
Because it's hard for her tobelieve that I forgave my
father.
And she wants me to be angrywith him.
Uh, she wants me to be angryabout him with her, right?
(11:18):
She's angry, so she's like, Howcould I not join her in her
anger?
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
I'm like, no, because I've forgiven.
And I said, and you don't do meany service.
There's no nobility in yousuffering and using me as your
vehicle.
Like, it doesn't make me happyto know that you're angry.
It hurts me to know that you'reholding on to that.
And I would love for you toforgive, but don't use me as the
tool to stay angry because itdoesn't serve.
Forgiveness is not condoningwhat happened.
(11:43):
Forgiveness is for you torelease the hold it has on you
and what it's doing to your bodyand to your mindset.
SPEAKER_01 (11:49):
So once you use humility, you used, like you
said, true forgiveness, that'swhere you see the difference or
the quick transformation betweenthose who apply this and those
who who get stuck.
And and and and I I agree withyou.
I I saw some, even in myself, insome situations in the past, uh,
(12:13):
when you do truly move on, uh,things happen very quick in your
life, changes, whatever it is,if it's your in professional
settings or personal settings.
Um, I agree with that.
It's you have to truly let go.
And sometimes you saidforgiveness, is it a superficial
(12:34):
forgiveness or is it a deepforgiveness?
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
Well, I think the tipping point to answer that um
is forgiveness, because somepeople say, no, I forgave a long
time ago, da-da-da.
But you can see it in theirbehavior that they are still
contracted when talking aboutthat person or they're still
right.
So I think true forgivenesscomes when you're able to find
the gift in what happened.
Right.
So if I say the abuse I had withmy father, for me to truly
(13:01):
forgive, I have to find thegift.
What's the good in it?
Why did this happen?
Why did this behavior, why wasthat a part of my life?
And maybe it was for me tounderstand shame at very
profound levels because of whathappened to me.
I adopted that I was gross,filthy, and nobody would ever
love me.
That's what I, the meaning Igave what happened to me with my
(13:22):
father.
So I know the visceral effectsof unworthiness.
I know what it feels like to bein shame about who I am, so that
I can help others transmute it.
If I can come out of that tofalling in love with not only
myself, but with humanity, socan you.
So the gift is I maybe mycontract with God was that I was
(13:45):
meant to go through it, not justread about it.
Right?
There's difference, there's adifference between climbing
Mount Everest and reading aboutclimbing Mount Everest, right?
It's two very different things.
So for me, I went through it andI told my mother this.
I'm like, you know, and I toldmy father before he passed, you
know, he said, I wish, you know,two weeks before he died, he had
leukemia and bits of dementia.
(14:07):
And he had a lucid moment when Iwas with him alone.
And he said, You know, I wish Iwish I could have been the
father you deserve.
And I said, Dad, you wereperfect.
You were exactly who I neededyou to be, so I could be who I
am today, and I'm good, youknow.
And so I don't know that I wouldchange anything of my past
because I couldn't be who I am,fully committed and convicted to
(14:28):
helping humanity get out ofsuffering.
Yeah.
So you got to find the gift inorder to truly forgive and let
go.
SPEAKER_01 (14:34):
That's guys, for for those who are listening to this
podcast, what you just heard isvery powerful.
Uh, take a moment, uh, put it onpause and reflect on what was
just said.
Uh, once you can understand uhthe meaning of what Jesse just
said, uh you could transform andlet go of the past if you're
(14:58):
dealing with something.
It's very powerful.
SPEAKER_00 (15:02):
And I do want to say one more thing about that,
Mario, because I know there'speople out there that are like,
well, you don't understand.
You don't know what I've beenthrough.
You don't know how horrible itwas.
And you're right.
I don't know what you've beenthrough, but I know what it is
to have sexual abuse.
I know what it is to have abrother murdered, two brothers
murdered, 30 years apart, andstill find forgiveness.
(15:23):
So you're right.
I don't know your personalexperience, but I but I do
believe that God in the universeis for us, not against us.
And if that's true, then thereis something there.
Maybe my brother's contract withGod was that his death was more
impactful, right, to me, to wakeme up to be the person that
serves the many.
I don't know, but I do know thatI had 29 glorious years with
(15:46):
him, and that after that I getto choose what I do with the
loss of him.
I could be angry, I could beupset, and I was for a while, or
I can find the beauty and I canfind the gift, and I can find
what it gave me to lose him andto still stand up and love him
and miss him every single day,but to be able to help and serve
others with grief.
SPEAKER_01 (16:05):
That that is uh very powerful.
Thank you for that, Jesse.
Uh let's uh go to questionnumber four.
Uh, for someone carrying apainful story, we just talked
about a bunch of differentscenarios.
What is the first practical stepto uh alchemize the pain into
purpose?
(16:26):
What you just said.
Let's go deeper into that uhthat that question.
And before um maybe hiring acoach or joining a program, what
do someone needs to do beforethey make a decision to go work
with someone with their theirpro whatever their problem is?
SPEAKER_00 (16:46):
I think that it's important when sometimes the
pain is still so loud, right?
It still feels so heavy and itit feels like there's no way
out.
I'll never let this go.
I I don't want to get out ofbed.
Physically, I'm hurting.
If you find five things to begrateful for.
(17:07):
So sometimes we feel the onlyway out of our pain is to go
directly into what happened.
Sometimes that's too hard.
I can't, I can't see it.
It's still too painful.
So it's we're gonna work onthis, but without the ability to
open our hearts just a littlebit enough to find gratitude for
(17:27):
the fact that we opened oureyes, for the fact that you know
we have maybe a friend thatloves us, for the fact that we
have a comfortable bed, for thefact that you can hear the birds
chirping, right?
You start to open your heart ingratitude.
Gratitude's a healer.
And if you can just start to dothat, journal five things a day,
what you're grateful for, andyou start to open your heart and
(17:48):
soften the edges a little bit,then maybe you can take one
portion of it and now start tolook at it, right?
But sometimes we feel it's tooconfronting to say somebody got
you know gang raped, just likeyou want me to go in there and
forgive.
I hate those people, and Godforbid you ended up pregnant.
You know what I mean?
It's just like it's it's hard tosay, you know what, you just
(18:08):
need to forgive, you know,everything has a purpose.
It doesn't work that way.
So sometimes we have to takethose baby steps to open our
hearts back up because if wedon't look for the gift in our
life, then all we see is thepain.
And so if we can just create anopening that helps to take the
steps.
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
I was just gonna say the the exact example of
learning how to walk again orriding a bike again for the
first time.
Well, yeah, it being grateful,like you said, uh learning how
to be grateful again, becausethat could be erased in a matter
of seconds or minutes with thetraumatic situation that someone
(18:49):
goes through.
Right.
By you appreciating the smallthings, then you'll get some
later on appreciate the biggerthe bigger things.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
Yes, and just to note, when my older brother was
murdered 30 years ago, um Iturned my back on God.
You know, I was raised Catholic,I was then Christian at the
time.
Now I consider myself morespiritual than I do religious,
but I honor everybody's journey.
But at that time, I flipped Godoff.
(19:22):
I was like, I don't even know ifyou exist.
What if there's nothing?
What if there's just wormscrawling out of our eyes holes?
We get buried six feet under.
I don't freaking know.
And if you do exist, God, I hateyou for taking my brother.
That was my perspective.
So I get it, right?
Faith is a tough one becauseit's etheric, it's a feeling,
it's a knowing.
And it's in my pain, I couldn'tfeel the presence of God or our
(19:45):
creator or source.
I couldn't feel it because mypain was so profound.
And it was a moment where mybrother showed himself to me,
and all he did was gesture withhis arms, and there was this
white and it was beautiful, andand I it's like it wasn't like I
can see clearly, but it was, Icould tell there was other
essences there.
And all he did was point withhis hands, and he says, Jess,
(20:06):
everything is as it's supposedto be.
And at the time I didn't knowwhat it meant, but it brought me
peace, and I knew he was okay.
So pull on your faith, pull onknowing that God is a gracious
God and that it is all in loveand for you, even when the pain
is so profound.
SPEAKER_01 (20:22):
You know, again, I I connect with a lot of things
that you say because uh thathappened to me too, you know.
A lot of people I feelassociates religion with
spirituality, and this issomething that I'm still working
on, to be uh perfectly honest.
Uh we were I was brought in acertain religion that I
(20:47):
associated, I associated, and Istill sometimes associate God
with that, and I can't move onfrom there, as if, oh well, if
I'm gonna talk to God now, I Ihave to, that means I still
believe in what I was wastalking about yeah, the
doctrine, which I don't want to.
So it's very it's very tough forpeople to to bring God or
(21:12):
spirituality back in their lifewithout attaching it to their
past experience because itdoesn't have to be.
It doesn't have to be, itdoesn't mean like you said, now
you consider yourself morespiritual than than religious.
Uh and that and I guess that'suh something that's getting more
(21:33):
common with people nowadays, butit's it's a transformation, you
have to learn uh how to do it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:39):
Yeah, and I just kind of see it as God.
If we believe that God is theessence of everything, be pure
and beautiful, the religion putsguidelines on them, or it puts
bumper pads or rules.
And I'm just like, I just I justgo to the connection of what it
is and what falls in line withthat, with which is the essence
(22:03):
of love, the essence of purity,which is the essence of
magnificence, of everythingglorious, right?
And with those lenses, I behavewithin the guidelines that are
written by man, right?
So, and and there's different uhperspectives on that.
Mine is just with one.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
That's great.
Final question for today, Jesse.
Um, if we gave listeners aseven-day uh fierce grace reset,
what would the daily microactions uh to be to create a
real momentum for for let's saythe next week?
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
Absolutely.
Well, again, I would start withgratitude.
Um, and part of it isrecognizing that this life is
precious, right?
We've had some recent tragedieshere, and it's it's kind of
awakening what is the woundingin every person, right?
It's like when we're barkinghatred, when we're barking
things that are really dark,that you're just shocked that
(23:06):
people are saying, I believethat it is a vehicle being used
to wake up the pain that Allahalready lives within, right?
So we can shift and start tosoften our hearts with that
gratitude moment.
Then we're going to startlooking into ways to
forgiveness.
But we first have to understandour own sovereignty.
Where did we lose safety?
(23:28):
That's our first essence of ashake up, right?
A little kid is loved by theirparents in the purity of their
home, goes to kindergarten orpreschool, and another kid takes
his lunchbox.
In that moment, unsafety.
Oh, why would somebody be mean?
Why would somebody take mylunchbox?
Why don't they like me?
They ate my favorite snack,right?
So hypervigilance begins.
(23:50):
Now, next day he goes to school,he's gripping his lunch pail a
little tighter.
He's just like, I'm afraid now.
So unsafety has rocked theworld.
So, where has unsafety began?
And we take those baby steps ofunderstanding that because the
rest of our lives, that unsafetycreates a piece of armor around
our heart.
Now we're protecting, right?
And what happens is throughoutour journey, that those pieces
(24:11):
of armor get so thick that itmoves us away from who we think
we are.
We are still that divinity, weare still that perfection, but
now we have a hypervigilancewrapped around it so much that
we develop an identity aroundour wounding versus an identity
around the purity of who we are.
So we have to get clear on thosethings because what we don't
(24:32):
realize is that our limitationtoday, there's an invisible
thread connected to a part inthe past where unsafety was
created.
And so we have to unravel that,we have to heal that, we have to
give the child what it needs.
And so we take baby steps to dothat.
So you start to pull back yourpower and you start to see
yourself through the lenses ofdivine perfection because that's
(24:54):
what we are.
If you look at an infant, thereis no wrong, it's perfect.
I was holding my uh friend sixdays old, six days, right?
His name is Timothy, and he'sgot these beautiful little
knuckles, and I'm looking at himand adoring in my mind.
I said, divine perfection.
And then I thought, what makesus any different?
Absolutely nothing, only thebelief.
(25:15):
So if we can start to break downthat armor, we can come back to
the purity of our own essence.
And it's the most beautifulthing to watch when people you
see the softening on theircheeks, and you see that they
come back to their ownself-acceptance.
It's it's just glorious.
And from that point, there'snothing you can't do.
SPEAKER_01 (25:33):
It was a true pleasure to talk with you today.
Um, lots of deep conversations.
I hope that our listeners uhwill take a nugget of advice, of
knowledge, of uh um even uh pastexperience and and use it on
(25:53):
their journey to betterthemselves.
Uh again, Jesse, thank you somuch for taking the time to be
with us on the Five QuestionsPodcast.
SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me, Mario.
SPEAKER_01 (26:05):
Thank you.
We'll talk soon.
Okay.
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