September 16, 2025 • 20 mins
Sibtain and Insiyah share their journey from casual real estate investors to multifamily specialists, revealing how they've created accessible investment vehicles for both high-net-worth individuals and everyday investors.
• Started investing in real estate 20 years ago with single-family homes and condos, including international properties
• COVID served as a catalyst to transition from background interest to full-time multifamily investing
• Created Pragma Inc for larger investors ($500k+) and ExpandWealth Real Estate Fund for smaller investors
• Brought banking negotiation tactics to real estate, emphasizing detailed contracts and win-win relationships
• Apply educational background to ensure investors understand both benefits and risks
• Consider tenant profiles carefully when purchasing buildings, sometimes declining deals if existing tenants wouldn't fit their model
• Built systems around people (power teams), processes (methodical approaches), and technology (Monday.com, Excel models)
• Maintain a completely paperless operation for mobility and backup security
• Caution against DIY approaches to real estate without proper education
• Recommend either investing time in learning or partnering with experienced professionals
Connect with Sibtain and Insiyah:
www.expandwealthfund.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you need surgery, you're not going to watch a
YouTube video and then try ityourself, right, but people tend
to approach real estate thatway.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to the 5 Questions Podcast, where we
unlock real estate and businessinsights one question at a time.
Welcome to the 5 QuestionsPodcast.
(00:33):
I am your host, mario Lamar.
Our guests on today's show area power couple, co-founders of
Pragma Inc and Expand WealthReal Estate Trust.
With a combined background ineducation, psychology, finance
and leadership, they areredefining what it means to
build generational wealththrough real estate.
Welcome, insia and Sib Panju.
(00:55):
Welcome to the show, guys.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Hey, Mario Glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, we're excited to be here.
Yeah, we're excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Okay, guys, the concept of the podcast is real
simple Five questions, eitherabout business or real estate,
and we get straight to the point.
You ready.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
We're ready?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Okay, first question I have for you guys.
Let's start at the beginning.
How did your journey in realestate begin and what inspired
you to co-found pragma Inc andthen, uh, expand wealth?
Uh, all together and any, uh,maybe.
Uh, both of you can tag team onthis question.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Sounds good, sounds good.
So, um, we started investing inreal estate about 20 years ago.
Um, you know, we were investingmainly in single family homes
and things like that.
Yeah, condos.
Um, you know, we were investingmainly in single family homes
and things like that, condos.
Uh, we even invested, uhinternationally, in dubai.
Um, so we've been investing inreal estate.
We had a couple of rentalproperties as well and, um, what
(01:56):
happened was, uh, that we hadtwo kids, life got busy.
I was working downtown and ncaawas working as well, and sort
of the tipping point was COVID,where we actually had time and
we were sort of gearing up toinvest more in real estate.
At that time, anyway, we sortof knew that real estate is the
way to go with the passiveincome and the appreciation.
(02:18):
And when COVID hit, it was sortof the catalyst where we
started investing more and gotmore into the multifamily space
and we went sort of all in onthat.
And even before COVID, we werealready educating ourselves and
networking on the multifamilyspace, and I'll let Ancia sort
of continue and add to that.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, I mean he did cover a lot of it.
It has been something that'salways been a part of our lives,
but always in the background,and I think Siv, I would have to
say, was a lot more passionateabout real estate, so he was the
driving force behind it.
I got my real estate license Idon't know, maybe like 15 years
ago now, and so you know, wewere in, we're dabbling into
(03:03):
real estate, but from differentangles and I think, yeah, like
you said, covid was was whatbrought it from the background
right into the foreground and itbecame what was leading us now
and then the job sort of fadedout.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's.
That's a great, great story andgreat life journey.
And it starts like that.
I speak to a lot of people andsometimes in a couple, let's say
you're doing it together.
It's always one that leads andthen the other one follows with
the years.
Let me ask you because in myquestion we named two companies,
(03:42):
so Pragma Inc and Expand WealthMaybe just touch on what's the
difference between those?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
two.
So Pragma is what Siv and Istarted together.
Okay, you know where we can.
It was multifamily focused.
It was our opportunity to builda portfolio for ourselves and
actually bring on investors anddo it for them as well.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Because we saw a lot of.
We just saw the value of thereal estate asset a multifamily
asset compared to other types ofreal estate assets.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Expand wealth.
I don't know if you want totalk about that or you want me
to continue.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
No, no, please continue.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
So what we noticed was Pragma was going really well
, still is going very well, butit caters to people who are
bringing in upwards of half amillion dollars.
So the accessibility of it wassomething that we wanted to work
on, because we had a lot ofother people approaching us with
smaller amounts that theywanted to invest, amounts that
(04:43):
they wanted to invest Right, andso if we're doing, you know, an
asset for Pragma, we're tryingnot to bring in like 20
different investors right, it'llbe one or two large investors
that we created.
Expand wealth to make itaccessible for everyone so that
everyone can benefit from thevalue that multifamily investing
brings.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Okay.
So, mr and Mrs, everybody has achance to invest in real estate
through this product, so at asmaller amount, which is great
because it gives the opportunityto the regular people to start
investing in real estate Exactly, and it's a smaller amount and
people can also invest RRSPs,tfsas, because it's a real
(05:25):
estate trust, it's a mutual fundtrust structure.
So people have a lot moreoptions to invest as well, not
just cash.
Okay, that's great.
Well, let's continue to oursecond question, and this one is
directed to Sib.
With your experience innegotiating multi-million dollar
deals in the banking world, howdo you now approach these
(05:49):
negotiation tactics into thereal estate space?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
I think that's a great question.
You know, I did work on a lotof different projects and a lot
of different deals.
I've negotiated a fewenterprise master agreements for
a top five bank with some verylarge vendors, some deals
upwards of $50 million with aspecific vendor.
So I learned a lot through thatprocess, not only in
(06:18):
negotiating the deals, but alsofrom a vendor management space
how to treat your trades, how towork with the vendors.
So a few things that I learnedis I learned is you have to get
multiple quotes.
So when we would do large deals,we would go through the RFP
process where we would put ourrequirements in place in a lot
of detail.
(06:38):
It would be what do we require?
So what we do with our deals,with our renovations, is we put
our scope of work very clearlyand we talk to a few different
contractorsations.
Is we put our scope of workvery clearly and we and we talk
to a few different uhcontractors, for example, on
that side of it, um, evennegotiating on a price, for
example, you know we use a lotof the facts.
We don't.
We don't use emotions right.
(06:59):
So I learned from, fromnegotiating those deals, that uh
, the the facts have to be veryclear and you have to be
reasonable in your negotiationas well.
It has to be a win-winsituation or else the deal is
not going to work right.
And so we use all those tacticsright now, all those strategies
right now, and I think the lastpiece of it is the contract.
(07:23):
Whenever you're negotiating adeal, you know the contract.
You have to really read it witha fine-tooth comb.
You have to really understandall the clauses, because one
word can make a lot ofdifference At the negotiating
table with some of the largercompanies.
One word solely, for example.
(07:45):
The word solely.
If this is your sole decision,that word, we would spend half a
day negotiating on that.
One word right.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So the smallest the sauce is in the smallest details
.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Exactly, exactly.
So I think I did learn a lot.
And from a just last thing isfrom a vendor management
perspective.
We deal with a lot of vendorsand trades in real estate and
you have to be very clear withthe communication.
You have to treat them with alot of respect, even if things
aren't going your way.
You have to be respectful andyou have to be able to see
(08:20):
things from both sides of ityour side and their side.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, like you said, it's very similar.
In the real estate space.
You don't want to overlook duediligences clauses, because
mistakes in real estate is not acouple hundred bucks, it could
be very costly.
So I could see the relationbetween the banking deals and
(08:45):
now in the real estate that youbrought over.
Okay, well, I have a questionnow for Incia.
Now, as someone whotransitioned from teaching into
investing, how has your passionfor education influenced your
approach to working withinvestors and tenants?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
So that's an interesting question.
Okay, let me start with theinvestor side of it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Education is a knowledge-based industry.
So bringing that to investing,I think on both sides for
ourselves foremost is to makesure that we're knowledgeable
about any building that we'reinterested in, right in terms of
choosing the market, um,underwriting the deal, doing all
(09:34):
the due diligence around thedeal, to making making sure that
you know there's uh, thefinancing side of it will work.
You know any changes in marketit'll be able to.
You know work any changes inmarket they'll be able to.
You know work through themarket cycle.
So we want to make sure thatyou know, from our standpoint,
we understand the product reallywell.
The education side on theinvestor, we want to make sure
(09:57):
they understand real estateinvesting.
They understand all the risks,they understand all the benefits
as well.
And then there's sometimespeople who approach us and they
want to learn about it, you know.
So we're happy to share theknowledge too.
So both ways, you know, that'skind of how we approach it on
the investor side, and I thinkwith that too comes some
accountability.
(10:17):
So we take that seriously aswell.
And you know, as an educator,you're in it because you want to
see the other person thrive.
You're not really in it foryourself, right, it's because
you want someone else to benefitand you want to be a
facilitator in that process, andthat's how we see this as well.
We really want our investors tothrive, and so we make sure we
(10:39):
do everything we can so thatthey do right.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
They are your partners, so you want to win
together, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And we try to approach everything has to be
win-win for all parties involved.
Yeah, so, yeah, that's a greatway to put it.
And you know, from the tenantside, we try to be mindful, I
mean.
So I mean going along with thatwin-win mentality.
You know, we do increase valuein the building by increase in
(11:11):
rents, but we try to be carefulon which buildings we're buying
and which tenants can afford theincrease in rent, right.
So I'll give you an examplethere was a building in Ontario
that we were looking atpurchasing.
The building when we did ourwalkthroughthrough, had a lot of
seniors in the building, right.
(11:32):
They looked very comfortableand we didn't feel like our
model would fit that tenantprofile and so we backed down
from the offer.
I'm sure the building didreally well, but we try to be
very careful about whichbuildings we're buying and who's
in there, right.
If they're younger people whoare sort of more transitional,
that might move in a few years.
(11:53):
That's more what we're lookingfor, you know, and I'll give you
one more example In one of thebuildings that we do have we
turned over the whole buildingexcept for one unit, and why?
Because the gentleman in thatunit is not well and um, you
know that doesn't want to moveright now, and we just let.
We just said you know what staythere, be comfortable, don't
(12:14):
worry about it, and that's it.
We just let it be yeah right.
So yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We try to bring that side of it to our tenants it's
and what from both sides partnersides, uh, tenant sides, it's
still, we're dealing with humans.
You know it's not justtransactions.
There is personalities involved, there is emotions involved.
So, from what I can understand,you guys do all that you can to
(12:40):
satisfy all parties, you know,from the business side and from
the tenant side.
So this is great yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
You know absolutely, but we do try to make sure that
everybody is winning.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, well, let's go to our fourth question.
This one is the next twoquestions is geared towards both
of you.
Now you've built a real estatetrust we talked about Expand
Wealth and you manage assetsacross Canada.
What systems or principles havebeen crucial for scaling
(13:23):
successfully and and sustainablythis, these, these projects?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, I'll start and then I'll turn over to Ncia
maybe.
So you know, people there's.
There's three things alwayslike there's people, there's
process and there's technologyright, and the people side of it
is always the hardest to getthe right people in place.
It's taken us a few years toget all the right teams in place
, from the contractor teams tothe property management teams,
(13:51):
to all the different realtorsthat we deal with in order to
acquire the off-market deals,things like that as well.
So it's taken us years to getthe people side of it right and
we've sort of got a solid team.
Now we call them our power team.
So that's been fantastic and wehave them in multiple cities
(14:11):
across Canada.
On the process side, I'm aprocess guy, like I've done some
of the lean Six Sigma trainingas well, and the process side of
it is critical because you wantto be efficient, you want to be
organized, and so whatever wedo, we do it very methodically.
(14:31):
We set up the process first andthen we execute on that right.
So whether it's tenantmanagement, we use software.
On the technology side, we usedifferent software, like
Mondaycom, for example.
We use Excel, obviously for alot of the modeling stuff.
So we have a couple of differentmodels in place.
One is to analyze a deal veryquickly, and then one is if we
(14:57):
want to go place an offer, we'llput it through the bigger model
, which shows you the 10-yearpro forma and all the different
metrics that we want to see.
So we can run a deal in fiveminutes or a little bit longer
than the bigger model.
So the technology side of it iscritical as well, and we use
the tools like HubSpot andthings like that as well, and
(15:18):
then our property managers havetheir property management tools
which we plug into as well,right?
So so definitely, you'reabsolutely right.
There are a lot of processesand people and technology that
that go into creating the wholecompany.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
And this is you know we talked about scaling Without
systems, without processes,you're going to reach a limit
where you're going to eitherstart going downhill or you know
you're not going to be able tocontinue growing.
Because these are key that youneed to implement If you want to
(15:53):
grow a portfolio, you needthose systems, those processes.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Exactly, and I think.
One last thing I'll add, andit's not big news, but I do talk
to a lot of people who don't dothis, but from day one we've
been paperless.
So I talked to some people andthey're like yeah, I'm not sure
if I have that in hard copy orsoft copy.
I'll double check.
But everything we do, even ifit comes in hard copy, we scan
(16:20):
it in and file it in soft copyand then we shred it, or
sometimes, if you have to keepit, you keep it stored away, but
everything is soft copy.
So we're completely mobile andit's all backed up and things
like that as well.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Soft copy, so we're completely mobile and it's all
backed up and things like thatas well.
That's great.
You seem like you havesomething good going on over
there, all right.
Well, this is our fifth andfinal question for you.
Today we talked about, you know, you created Expand Wealth and
you opened it for a bigger poolof people to be able to invest
in real estate, and some ofthose people might be new
(16:56):
investors.
So what are the most commonmyths that you hear about
multifamily investing, and whattruths do you wish more people
would understand?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
so, um, one of the myths I would say is, um, that
people sometimes approach realestate as if like it's for
everyone, but it's stillsomething you need to be well
versed on.
Um, it's one of those fieldswhere I think you don't know
what.
You don't know right and um,you know, I was talking to sip
earlier and I'm saying you know,if you, if you need surgery,
you don't know, right.
And you know, I was talking toSeb earlier and I'm saying you
know, if you, if you needsurgery, you're not going to
watch a YouTube video and thentry it yourself, right?
But people tend to approach realestate that way, and so what we
(17:44):
see oftentimes is people whoare kind of doing it on the side
, without education behind it.
They're making a lot ofmistakes which can be costly.
They're losing their time,they're coming out after a long
investment but they've donethemselves either flat or
negative, right, and you don'twant to see people, you know.
It's just unfortunate thatthere's no need for that, right.
(18:06):
So you know, what we try totell people is either invest the
time that you need to do itreally well or pair up with
someone who can do it for you.
You know, um.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
So one of those myths that that's what I see, right,
that you know it's for everyone,but that means people think it
to be that okay, well, I can doit too, but you can't unless you
you educate yourself reallywell it's true, it it seems like
, when I think about it, a lotof people say, oh well, my aunt
or my uncle or my father did it,you know, bought a couple of
(18:40):
houses and they think that thisis being an investor, which
they're not wrong.
But if you want to do it as areal real estate investor and do
it as a business, there'ssomething different to treat it
as a business than buying acouple of properties and doing
it on the fly, like we say.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Exactly because when the market's going up, yeah,
everyone's winning andeveryone's a genius, but you
know the market's got cycles.
So if you're not able towithstand the dips or know how
to take advantage of that, thenyou put yourself in a very
precarious situation.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Absolutely Well, guys , this was a great conversation.
Sib and Sia, thank you so muchfor being on the Five Questions
podcast today.
I hope our listeners will takea piece of your knowledge, of
your advice, with them on theirjourney and I'm sure we'll be
talking very soon again.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Thanks, mario it was great seeing you again.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Thanks for having us, mario.
Thanks for tuning into the 5Questions Podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe, like
and hit the notification bellon our YouTube channel so you
never miss an episode.
Stay tuned for more insightsand tips to transform your real
estate and business game.
See you next time.
If you need surgery, you're not going to watch a
YouTube video and then try ityourself, right, but people tend
to approach real estate thatway.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to the 5 Questions Podcast, where we
unlock real estate and businessinsights one question at a time.
Welcome to the 5 QuestionsPodcast.
(00:33):
I am your host, mario Lamar.
Our guests on today's show area power couple, co-founders of
Pragma Inc and Expand WealthReal Estate Trust.
With a combined background ineducation, psychology, finance
and leadership, they areredefining what it means to
build generational wealththrough real estate.
Welcome, insia and Sib Panju.
(00:55):
Welcome to the show, guys.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Hey, Mario Glad to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, we're excited to be here.
Yeah, we're excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Okay, guys, the concept of the podcast is real
simple Five questions, eitherabout business or real estate,
and we get straight to the point.
You ready.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
We're ready?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Okay, first question I have for you guys.
Let's start at the beginning.
How did your journey in realestate begin and what inspired
you to co-found pragma Inc andthen, uh, expand wealth?
Uh, all together and any, uh,maybe.
Uh, both of you can tag team onthis question.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Sounds good, sounds good.
So, um, we started investing inreal estate about 20 years ago.
Um, you know, we were investingmainly in single family homes
and things like that.
Yeah, condos.
Um, you know, we were investingmainly in single family homes
and things like that, condos.
Uh, we even invested, uhinternationally, in dubai.
Um, so we've been investing inreal estate.
We had a couple of rentalproperties as well and, um, what
(01:56):
happened was, uh, that we hadtwo kids, life got busy.
I was working downtown and ncaawas working as well, and sort
of the tipping point was COVID,where we actually had time and
we were sort of gearing up toinvest more in real estate.
At that time, anyway, we sortof knew that real estate is the
way to go with the passiveincome and the appreciation.
(02:18):
And when COVID hit, it was sortof the catalyst where we
started investing more and gotmore into the multifamily space
and we went sort of all in onthat.
And even before COVID, we werealready educating ourselves and
networking on the multifamilyspace, and I'll let Ancia sort
of continue and add to that.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, I mean he did cover a lot of it.
It has been something that'salways been a part of our lives,
but always in the background,and I think Siv, I would have to
say, was a lot more passionateabout real estate, so he was the
driving force behind it.
I got my real estate license Idon't know, maybe like 15 years
ago now, and so you know, wewere in, we're dabbling into
(03:03):
real estate, but from differentangles and I think, yeah, like
you said, covid was was whatbrought it from the background
right into the foreground and itbecame what was leading us now
and then the job sort of fadedout.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
That's.
That's a great, great story andgreat life journey.
And it starts like that.
I speak to a lot of people andsometimes in a couple, let's say
you're doing it together.
It's always one that leads andthen the other one follows with
the years.
Let me ask you because in myquestion we named two companies,
(03:42):
so Pragma Inc and Expand WealthMaybe just touch on what's the
difference between those?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
two.
So Pragma is what Siv and Istarted together.
Okay, you know where we can.
It was multifamily focused.
It was our opportunity to builda portfolio for ourselves and
actually bring on investors anddo it for them as well.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Because we saw a lot of.
We just saw the value of thereal estate asset a multifamily
asset compared to other types ofreal estate assets.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Expand wealth.
I don't know if you want totalk about that or you want me
to continue.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
No, no, please continue.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
So what we noticed was Pragma was going really well
, still is going very well, butit caters to people who are
bringing in upwards of half amillion dollars.
So the accessibility of it wassomething that we wanted to work
on, because we had a lot ofother people approaching us with
smaller amounts that theywanted to invest, amounts that
(04:43):
they wanted to invest Right, andso if we're doing, you know, an
asset for Pragma, we're tryingnot to bring in like 20
different investors right, it'llbe one or two large investors
that we created.
Expand wealth to make itaccessible for everyone so that
everyone can benefit from thevalue that multifamily investing
brings.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Okay.
So, mr and Mrs, everybody has achance to invest in real estate
through this product, so at asmaller amount, which is great
because it gives the opportunityto the regular people to start
investing in real estate Exactly, and it's a smaller amount and
people can also invest RRSPs,tfsas, because it's a real
(05:25):
estate trust, it's a mutual fundtrust structure.
So people have a lot moreoptions to invest as well, not
just cash.
Okay, that's great.
Well, let's continue to oursecond question, and this one is
directed to Sib.
With your experience innegotiating multi-million dollar
deals in the banking world, howdo you now approach these
(05:49):
negotiation tactics into thereal estate space?
Speaker 3 (05:55):
I think that's a great question.
You know, I did work on a lotof different projects and a lot
of different deals.
I've negotiated a fewenterprise master agreements for
a top five bank with some verylarge vendors, some deals
upwards of $50 million with aspecific vendor.
So I learned a lot through thatprocess, not only in
(06:18):
negotiating the deals, but alsofrom a vendor management space
how to treat your trades, how towork with the vendors.
So a few things that I learnedis I learned is you have to get
multiple quotes.
So when we would do large deals,we would go through the RFP
process where we would put ourrequirements in place in a lot
of detail.
(06:38):
It would be what do we require?
So what we do with our deals,with our renovations, is we put
our scope of work very clearlyand we talk to a few different
contractorsations.
Is we put our scope of workvery clearly and we and we talk
to a few different uhcontractors, for example, on
that side of it, um, evennegotiating on a price, for
example, you know we use a lotof the facts.
We don't.
We don't use emotions right.
(06:59):
So I learned from, fromnegotiating those deals, that uh
, the the facts have to be veryclear and you have to be
reasonable in your negotiationas well.
It has to be a win-winsituation or else the deal is
not going to work right.
And so we use all those tacticsright now, all those strategies
right now, and I think the lastpiece of it is the contract.
(07:23):
Whenever you're negotiating adeal, you know the contract.
You have to really read it witha fine-tooth comb.
You have to really understandall the clauses, because one
word can make a lot ofdifference At the negotiating
table with some of the largercompanies.
One word solely, for example.
(07:45):
The word solely.
If this is your sole decision,that word, we would spend half a
day negotiating on that.
One word right.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
So the smallest the sauce is in the smallest details
.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Exactly, exactly.
So I think I did learn a lot.
And from a just last thing isfrom a vendor management
perspective.
We deal with a lot of vendorsand trades in real estate and
you have to be very clear withthe communication.
You have to treat them with alot of respect, even if things
aren't going your way.
You have to be respectful andyou have to be able to see
(08:20):
things from both sides of ityour side and their side.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, like you said, it's very similar.
In the real estate space.
You don't want to overlook duediligences clauses, because
mistakes in real estate is not acouple hundred bucks, it could
be very costly.
So I could see the relationbetween the banking deals and
(08:45):
now in the real estate that youbrought over.
Okay, well, I have a questionnow for Incia.
Now, as someone whotransitioned from teaching into
investing, how has your passionfor education influenced your
approach to working withinvestors and tenants?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
So that's an interesting question.
Okay, let me start with theinvestor side of it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Education is a knowledge-based industry.
So bringing that to investing,I think on both sides for
ourselves foremost is to makesure that we're knowledgeable
about any building that we'reinterested in, right in terms of
choosing the market, um,underwriting the deal, doing all
(09:34):
the due diligence around thedeal, to making making sure that
you know there's uh, thefinancing side of it will work.
You know any changes in marketit'll be able to.
You know work any changes inmarket they'll be able to.
You know work through themarket cycle.
So we want to make sure thatyou know, from our standpoint,
we understand the product reallywell.
The education side on theinvestor, we want to make sure
(09:57):
they understand real estateinvesting.
They understand all the risks,they understand all the benefits
as well.
And then there's sometimespeople who approach us and they
want to learn about it, you know.
So we're happy to share theknowledge too.
So both ways, you know, that'skind of how we approach it on
the investor side, and I thinkwith that too comes some
accountability.
(10:17):
So we take that seriously aswell.
And you know, as an educator,you're in it because you want to
see the other person thrive.
You're not really in it foryourself, right, it's because
you want someone else to benefitand you want to be a
facilitator in that process, andthat's how we see this as well.
We really want our investors tothrive, and so we make sure we
(10:39):
do everything we can so thatthey do right.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
They are your partners, so you want to win
together, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And we try to approach everything has to be
win-win for all parties involved.
Yeah, so, yeah, that's a greatway to put it.
And you know, from the tenantside, we try to be mindful, I
mean.
So I mean going along with thatwin-win mentality.
You know, we do increase valuein the building by increase in
(11:11):
rents, but we try to be carefulon which buildings we're buying
and which tenants can afford theincrease in rent, right.
So I'll give you an examplethere was a building in Ontario
that we were looking atpurchasing.
The building when we did ourwalkthroughthrough, had a lot of
seniors in the building, right.
(11:32):
They looked very comfortableand we didn't feel like our
model would fit that tenantprofile and so we backed down
from the offer.
I'm sure the building didreally well, but we try to be
very careful about whichbuildings we're buying and who's
in there, right.
If they're younger people whoare sort of more transitional,
that might move in a few years.
(11:53):
That's more what we're lookingfor, you know, and I'll give you
one more example In one of thebuildings that we do have we
turned over the whole buildingexcept for one unit, and why?
Because the gentleman in thatunit is not well and um, you
know that doesn't want to moveright now, and we just let.
We just said you know what staythere, be comfortable, don't
(12:14):
worry about it, and that's it.
We just let it be yeah right.
So yeah, that's.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
We try to bring that side of it to our tenants it's
and what from both sides partnersides, uh, tenant sides, it's
still, we're dealing with humans.
You know it's not justtransactions.
There is personalities involved, there is emotions involved.
So, from what I can understand,you guys do all that you can to
(12:40):
satisfy all parties, you know,from the business side and from
the tenant side.
So this is great yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
You know absolutely, but we do try to make sure that
everybody is winning.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, well, let's go to our fourth question.
This one is the next twoquestions is geared towards both
of you.
Now you've built a real estatetrust we talked about Expand
Wealth and you manage assetsacross Canada.
What systems or principles havebeen crucial for scaling
(13:23):
successfully and and sustainablythis, these, these projects?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, I'll start and then I'll turn over to Ncia
maybe.
So you know, people there's.
There's three things alwayslike there's people, there's
process and there's technologyright, and the people side of it
is always the hardest to getthe right people in place.
It's taken us a few years toget all the right teams in place
, from the contractor teams tothe property management teams,
(13:51):
to all the different realtorsthat we deal with in order to
acquire the off-market deals,things like that as well.
So it's taken us years to getthe people side of it right and
we've sort of got a solid team.
Now we call them our power team.
So that's been fantastic and wehave them in multiple cities
(14:11):
across Canada.
On the process side, I'm aprocess guy, like I've done some
of the lean Six Sigma trainingas well, and the process side of
it is critical because you wantto be efficient, you want to be
organized, and so whatever wedo, we do it very methodically.
(14:31):
We set up the process first andthen we execute on that right.
So whether it's tenantmanagement, we use software.
On the technology side, we usedifferent software, like
Mondaycom, for example.
We use Excel, obviously for alot of the modeling stuff.
So we have a couple of differentmodels in place.
One is to analyze a deal veryquickly, and then one is if we
(14:57):
want to go place an offer, we'llput it through the bigger model
, which shows you the 10-yearpro forma and all the different
metrics that we want to see.
So we can run a deal in fiveminutes or a little bit longer
than the bigger model.
So the technology side of it iscritical as well, and we use
the tools like HubSpot andthings like that as well, and
(15:18):
then our property managers havetheir property management tools
which we plug into as well,right?
So so definitely, you'reabsolutely right.
There are a lot of processesand people and technology that
that go into creating the wholecompany.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
And this is you know we talked about scaling Without
systems, without processes,you're going to reach a limit
where you're going to eitherstart going downhill or you know
you're not going to be able tocontinue growing.
Because these are key that youneed to implement If you want to
(15:53):
grow a portfolio, you needthose systems, those processes.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Exactly, and I think.
One last thing I'll add, andit's not big news, but I do talk
to a lot of people who don't dothis, but from day one we've
been paperless.
So I talked to some people andthey're like yeah, I'm not sure
if I have that in hard copy orsoft copy.
I'll double check.
But everything we do, even ifit comes in hard copy, we scan
(16:20):
it in and file it in soft copyand then we shred it, or
sometimes, if you have to keepit, you keep it stored away, but
everything is soft copy.
So we're completely mobile andit's all backed up and things
like that as well.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Soft copy, so we're completely mobile and it's all
backed up and things like thatas well.
That's great.
You seem like you havesomething good going on over
there, all right.
Well, this is our fifth andfinal question for you.
Today we talked about, you know, you created Expand Wealth and
you opened it for a bigger poolof people to be able to invest
in real estate, and some ofthose people might be new
(16:56):
investors.
So what are the most commonmyths that you hear about
multifamily investing, and whattruths do you wish more people
would understand?
Speaker 1 (17:22):
so, um, one of the myths I would say is, um, that
people sometimes approach realestate as if like it's for
everyone, but it's stillsomething you need to be well
versed on.
Um, it's one of those fieldswhere I think you don't know
what.
You don't know right and um,you know, I was talking to sip
earlier and I'm saying you know,if you, if you need surgery,
you don't know, right.
And you know, I was talking toSeb earlier and I'm saying you
know, if you, if you needsurgery, you're not going to
watch a YouTube video and thentry it yourself, right?
But people tend to approach realestate that way, and so what we
(17:44):
see oftentimes is people whoare kind of doing it on the side
, without education behind it.
They're making a lot ofmistakes which can be costly.
They're losing their time,they're coming out after a long
investment but they've donethemselves either flat or
negative, right, and you don'twant to see people, you know.
It's just unfortunate thatthere's no need for that, right.
(18:06):
So you know, what we try totell people is either invest the
time that you need to do itreally well or pair up with
someone who can do it for you.
You know, um.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
So one of those myths that that's what I see, right,
that you know it's for everyone,but that means people think it
to be that okay, well, I can doit too, but you can't unless you
you educate yourself reallywell it's true, it it seems like
, when I think about it, a lotof people say, oh well, my aunt
or my uncle or my father did it,you know, bought a couple of
(18:40):
houses and they think that thisis being an investor, which
they're not wrong.
But if you want to do it as areal real estate investor and do
it as a business, there'ssomething different to treat it
as a business than buying acouple of properties and doing
it on the fly, like we say.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Exactly because when the market's going up, yeah,
everyone's winning andeveryone's a genius, but you
know the market's got cycles.
So if you're not able towithstand the dips or know how
to take advantage of that, thenyou put yourself in a very
precarious situation.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Absolutely Well, guys , this was a great conversation.
Sib and Sia, thank you so muchfor being on the Five Questions
podcast today.
I hope our listeners will takea piece of your knowledge, of
your advice, with them on theirjourney and I'm sure we'll be
talking very soon again.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Thanks, mario it was great seeing you again.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Thanks for having us, mario.
Thanks for tuning into the 5Questions Podcast.
If you enjoyed today's episode,don't forget to subscribe, like
and hit the notification bellon our YouTube channel so you
never miss an episode.
Stay tuned for more insightsand tips to transform your real
estate and business game.
See you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.