September 21, 2025 • 38 mins
Marriage isn’t ultimately about our happiness—it’s about God’s glory. In this episode, host Kate and her husband Jason unpack God’s purpose for marriage as a reflection of Christ and the church, a way to pass on faith to the next generation, and a witness to the watching world.
With nearly 20 years together, they share candidly about leadership and submission, communication struggles, and the lessons they’ve learned about quick repentance, assuming good intentions, and engaging conflict with grace. They also talk about why prioritizing your spouse creates lasting security for children, and how wives can encourage their husbands in the Word without nagging.
Even if you’re not married, this conversation will encourage you with biblical wisdom for all relationships. You’ll walk away with practical ways to love sacrificially, resolve conflict with humility, and anchor your life in God’s Word so that Christ is glorified in every part of your story.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, this is Kate from Abitablecom and you're
listening to the AbitablePodcast.
I'm just a regular wife and momwho's had my life transformed
by learning to study the Bibleon my own.
If I can, you can.
On this show, I help you knowand love God more by abiding in
Him through His Word yourself.
(00:21):
Surprisingly, the key to a goodmarriage is not the pursuit of
a good marriage, but to pursuethe honor of God.
That is a quote fromChristopher Ashe, and you can
(00:42):
probably guess what our topic istoday for our second episode in
this Ask Us Anything series.
You have sent in a series ofquestions on marriage and we're
going to get into those.
I've got Jason back here, myhusband with us again, to go
through these questions, but wewanted to lay that framework for
you that our belief, ourbiblical belief, is that the
purpose of marriage is thepursuit of honoring God.
(01:05):
Marriage is about companionshipand unity, as well as
partnership and mission.
Marriage is about reflectingChrist and the church.
It's about having godlyoffspring and generational faith
, and really marriage is awitness to the world, and so we
wanted to start out with thatframework of understanding.
This is what we believe thepurpose of marriage to be before
(01:27):
we get into those questions.
Certainly, these things willcome back up, but I get to kick
it off with the first question.
First of all, hello.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Our first question from our listeners is how do you
view?
So like we're getting a littlemore serious right.
Like last week we were liketalking about how we met and
like our favorite or like ourideas for inventions.
This week we're talking likewe're jumping into marriage.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, I was serious last week too.
I thought that was a seriouspodcast.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
That was not a serious.
This is a serious podcast.
I mean we are not going to beable to, in 30 minutes-ish,
cover every single thing aboutbiblical marriage, but we're
going gonna get like a littlemore a little more into it.
We're gonna get there we'regonna get there, okay.
So here's the first questionthat you can answer, and then
I'll see if I have anything toadd.
How do you view leadership andor partnership within your home,
(02:17):
both spiritually andholistically, and has this
always been the case or has itevolved?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Wow, okay, this is a serious podcast, so we are going
to go right into it.
I think we view and I can saywe, because this is a
conversation that you and I havehad and continue to have, and
we are on the same page about it.
So leadership and partnership,both spiritually and
holistically, is that I am thehead of the household and I mean
(02:48):
I think the question is a goodone in terms of partnership,
because it truly is apartnership.
So when I think about, you know, the idea of me being the head
or the lead of the house,there's a few different things
that come to mind.
I think first would beEphesians 5, where it talks
about the relationship betweenhusband and wife and a husband
(03:09):
leading the wife.
But it's as Christ loves thechurch, and so there's a weight
and a heaviness to that and aresponsibility that it's not a
husband who just wields powerand makes all the decisions and
has subjects loyal or disloyalsubjects in the house, but there
is a responsibility to love asChrist loved the church.
(03:32):
So when you view headship thatway, it takes on a different
meaning than I think a lot ofpeople think.
But then also you've got 1Timothy 3, where it talks about
managing your household andthere's a responsibility there
too.
And then 1 Peter 3 talks aboutliving with your wives in an
understanding way.
So going back to the way thatChrist loved the church, again,
(03:54):
there's a leadership and aheadship, but it's in an
understanding way.
And I think that the way that wehandle things is that, if I
need to, I can break a tie, butwe try to make decisions
together and if we are on thesame page, then that's fantastic
.
You know, I think we're goingto get into that.
And one of the questions, too,about you know kind of how we
communicate and how we're inalignment on things and
(04:16):
generally we're going to be onthe same page.
You know, as Christians, aspeople who love Jesus, we're
going to try to follow what theBible says on things.
But there are also verypractical modern day.
You know, should we buy thisthing?
Should we go to this place?
Should we take that trip?
And usually we're on the samepage about those things.
But if it came down to it, thenthat would be something where I
(04:38):
would do what I think is bestfor the family, obviously
valuing your perspective, Liam'sperspective, getting wise
counsel.
You know, not being done in avacuum.
So I take that responsibilityand that weight very seriously.
But I think to the second parthas it always been the case or
has it evolved?
You know, I think I woulddefinitely say it's evolved
(04:59):
because as we've grown it haslooked different.
I think we've always had thesame general perspective on this
is what the Bible says, this iswhat we believe, but because of
who we've been and beingimmature and growing, there have
been times that I have not ledor I haven't led well, which
makes it hard for you to submitin your role, and you know it
(05:23):
may not feel safe.
So why would I submit to that?
Or even if I am submitting, I'ma little bit nervous about what
that means, what that couldlook like.
So I think it's evolved, Ithink it's grown, but I think
it's always been generally thesame.
It's just maybe played outdifferently.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, don't you feel like we could talk for an hour
about this?
I mean, this is such a complextopic not complex in the sense
of what God says about it.
You mentioned Ephesians 5 andjust a couple like here's word
for word, you know, a coupleexcerpts from that passage Ephes
the wife, even as Christ is thehead of the church, and then
you already mentioned thishusbands, love your wives as
(06:07):
Christ loved the church.
And it says this mystery isprofound, and I am saying that
it refers to Christ in thechurch.
And I think, just an aside, youknow, I want to talk about us
and our relationship and add ona little bit to what you said,
but just as an aside, like fromthe world's perspective, this is
offensive.
You know, this is archaic.
And this is also something thathas certainly been abused.
(06:29):
You know this is like I almostsaid something I probably
shouldn't have, but you knowthis idea of the patriarchy in
the sense of it being abused andI would say certainly it has
been Certainly there have beenmen in the history of the church
and of the faith who have takenthis verse and used it as a
hammer for women, and we wouldsay that, biblically, what this
does not mean is to submit to aman who is abusive, to submit to
(06:52):
a man who is violent, who isasking his wife or commanding
his wife and children and familyto do ungodly things.
So that's an important caveat.
I think that we need to say,and I also want to say that the
more you know and love God andunderstand his heart for us, his
heart for marriage, his heartfor husbands and for wives, the
(07:13):
more you understand the beautyof this command, starting with
the law, starting with thecommand, starting with the rule
and trying to disconnect thatfrom who God is and what his
heart is.
You know he desires familiesthat are whole, children that
are seeing an example ofsacrifice, of respect, of
(07:36):
security, of all of the thingsthat can come from a home where
this is walked out, but Iunderstand that to the world and
you know, I don't know who'slistening to this podcast,
probably primarily people who'veheard this verse before, but I
think it's an important caveat.
Now I would add in for me theidea of I was aware of the idea
when we got married, when I was23 years old.
(07:56):
I was aware of this idea ofsubmitting to your husbands as
to the Lord, but I had no ideahow to do that, especially.
You know, just like you'resaying, you didn't know how to
lead.
I think that, again, abiding inChrist transforms your ability
in any capacity to follow any ofhis laws, including the idea of
for me submitting to you.
Just because you were maybe atstep one in leading when we
(08:21):
first got married and didn'tfully know how to walk that out,
didn't excuse me from followingthe command of submitting and I
, as somebody who is incrediblyindependent, incredibly
controlling, this has been areally hard one for me and God
has really had to refine me overtime and, as he has, I know
he's also been refining you.
It's the beauty of what he'sdoing in a relationship with two
(08:43):
people who are trying.
You know, certainly notperfectly.
Over the years We've beenmarried almost 20 years this
coming summer that he is at workin us to make this more
possible.
I would definitely say that I dofeel safer submitting to you
now, not because you doeverything perfectly or because
you have no sin, but because youare submitting to Christ.
You are quicker to repent.
(09:05):
You let me know when you'restruggling with things.
So the safety of that, you know, the safety that I feel in you
is that you are submitting toChrist and I definitely feel,
like you said, our marriage is apartnership and we're able to
talk things through.
But the point here that I wouldlike to close on, I guess, is
that you know my call to submitto you is the call that Christ
has on me as a wife, regardlessof what you are doing.
(09:26):
Again, aside from and apartfrom any sort of abusive
behavior, that would requiredifferent kind of discipline and
other people getting involvedyour turn.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
All right.
Question number two how do youwork on communicating with one
another within your marriage?
Related how do you work throughconflict together?
And before we go into ouranswers to this, there's a quote
that I think we wanted to readfrom Paul Washer, and it says
how would you ever learnunconditional love if you were
married to someone who met allthe conditions?
(09:55):
How would you ever learn mercy,patience, long-suffering,
heartfelt compassion if you weremarried to someone who never
failed you, who was neverdifficult with you, who never
sinned against you, who wasnever slow to acknowledge their
sin or ask for forgiveness?
How would you ever learn graceTo pour out your favor on
someone who did not deserve itif you were married to someone
(10:17):
who was always deserving of allgood things?
The main purpose of marriage isthat through your marriage, you
both become conformed to theimage of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, we wanted to lead with this quote because we
think that communication stemsfrom how you see each other, as
well as conflict, which is apart of communication, and how
you see marriage.
If I see you as my be-all,end-all, the one who has to
bring me my happiness and I putall my eggs in the Jason basket
as well as seeing marriage asthe purpose of marriage is my
(10:49):
happiness and my security and my, my, my then communication is
always going to be difficultbecause anytime that you pop
that bubble and you know marthat image, I'm going to be
approaching you from thatstandpoint of bitterness and
resentment and trying to evenbring you to the side of you
(11:12):
know you need to change, youneed to do X, y and Z to fill
those needs in me.
And so I think, starting withthis understanding that the
purpose of marriage is to pursuethe honor of God, for a husband
to love his wife as Christloves the church, for a wife to
submit to her husband, I thinkthat that really isn't a pivotal
starting point how we see eachother, that I see you as a
(11:34):
brother in Christ who is inprocess.
You are a sinner saved by grace, just as I am a sinner saved by
grace and in all of ourcommunication, remembering that
and remembering that you needhim just as much as I need him,
and like the goal is, you know,unity in him.
I think that transforms how wecommunicate.
One of the main things I'velearned, that I didn't do well
when we were first married and Ihope I've grown in is assuming
(11:59):
the best in what you're doing,what you're saying, how you're
saying it, just because youmight not.
I should tell the story of thetime that I cried when I
realized how difficult I wasbeing.
Just because you don'tcommunicate in exactly the right
way, with the right tone andsay the exact right words to me
doesn't mean that I shouldassign a certain or ascribe a
certain motive to you and whatyou are attempting to do and to
(12:20):
say and to be the best that youcan In that particular moment.
There was a moment early on inour marriage where we were
having a fight and you were liketrying to figure out what you
could have said or what youcould have done differently, and
I was like trying to explain toyou and I realized and then I
(12:41):
started to cry how particular Iwas being and how much I was
really forcing you to walk oneggshells, like you had to.
You know, say it just with acertain tone and look at me with
just the certain expression inyour face and tilt your head 45
degrees to the right and, like,gently, put your hand on my hand
.
Like what did I expect?
It was so over the top that Istarted to cry and I said I'm,
(13:03):
I'm really difficult, aren't I?
And I would say in our marriageI've certainly been the more
difficult one.
I think that you are a man ofgreat patience.
My mother calls you Saint Jason.
My mother loves me, but sheknows I can be difficult too,
and she calls you Saint Jasonbecause you're good for me.
You know, you've taught me alot and I said that last week
about steadfastness and patienceand all of those things.
(13:25):
So I would say the main thingin communication is assuming or
ascribing pure motives to theother person when they are
communicating with you andasking questions like when you
said this, when you did this,like what did you intend to
communicate?
As opposed to you did this, yousaid this.
(13:47):
This is what you meant, this iswhat you intended to
communicate.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, I feel like you .
Maybe I wrote my notes a littlebit too big, because it seems
like you're hitting on all thethings that I was thinking of.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I'm not copying, I swear I can't see that far.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I think that's a good one, though, in terms of
assuming you know, I think youhear assume good intent a lot,
which is not always the case.
That's one thing like this PaulWasher quote it talks about
like we're fallen and we'resinful.
So we don't always do thingswith pure motives and good
intent.
But if we're always assumingnegative intent or we're not
(14:21):
assuming good intent or we'renot giving the benefit of the
doubt, then we're just going tobe in constant conflict.
So, like understanding, whenyou said that thing, you said
these words, but I know that'snot what you meant.
But if I react to what?
But you said this specificthing, instead of pausing and
going wait a minute, I know whoKate is.
(14:42):
She didn't just say that thingto be a jerk, she probably meant
something different.
Or when you said different, orwhen your facial expression was
doing this thing, it's like well, do you know what you look like
?
Yeah, but that's not what Imeant to do.
Well, that's what you look like.
So I think there's an element ofthat in terms of knowing who we
are and how we want to interactwith each other.
(15:04):
So if something doesn't line upwith that, like, well, wait a
minute, she said that that's notwho she really is, that's not
what she wants to convey to meor she doesn't want to hurt me
by saying that.
Sometimes that may be true, butmost of the time it's not.
So I think just having thatperspective in mind, like giving
grace, giving benefit of thedoubt, asking questions instead
(15:26):
of assuming One of my favoriteshows is Ted Lasso and he talks
about being curious, notjudgmental, which, from a
Christian, biblical perspective,I think there's different
elements of that, but just likethe idea in general of being
humble and asking questions andtaking a pause before you jump
into something, and giving grace, I think is always going to be
(15:48):
beneficial.
I think the last one that I wasthinking was just engaging and
not withdrawing, likespecifically with conflict.
I think there's times thatstepping back, taking a second,
is healthy, but I think you knowwe've learned over time facing
that thing, talking about it,you know being head on instead
(16:08):
of you know slamming a door andbeing separate, letting
something fester, not dealingwith it and then hoping it just
goes away, but actually talkingabout it, unpacking it in a
healthy way.
So, yeah, I think everythingyou said hits what I was
thinking also.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, and I think when you're abiding in God
through his word, which I'malways going to bring it back to
, each of you has the spirit.
You know you're walking in thespirit more than you're walking
in the flesh, or at least that'sthe attempt that you're trying
to put the flesh to death and towalk in the spirit, and so you
will be more quick to repent.
Like you're right, we arefallen, and so, while I want to
always ascribe to you the bestintent and the best motives,
that may not always be the case,and so walking in the spirit
(16:45):
means that you are more quick torepent because you are
convicted more quickly.
You're walking with him and youhear him.
You know you hear his voice.
So you're more quick to repent,or I'm more quick to repent.
I am prone in our, you know, ofthe two of us, I'm the one to
walk away, you're the one topursue.
So Jesus is changing that, thatI can stay in the room and
continue to talk, becauseoftentimes, for me, my
(17:11):
frustration in the conflictwhich some people might relate
to is just feeling misunderstood, or feeling frustrated that I'm
not communicating myself well,or then getting halfway into it
and realizing you know, I'm thecapital, j jerk, and you know.
Then there's pride.
Like how quick can I confessand say, hey, like I you know
what, like I really handled Istarted.
I started that out the completewrong way or I handled that in
a really bad way.
Will you forgive me?
Can we start over?
Can we go back?
Repentance is such a gift thatGod gives us.
That should be a frequent partof marriage communication.
(17:35):
I think it's been a hugetransforming element of our
relationship because we didn'tknow how to do that at the
beginning.
We had too much pride.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Am I next?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You're up.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
What are some practical and realistic ways
that you can love your childrenwell but also keep your marriage
a priority?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, this one is interesting.
It's funny the things that Iremember from college.
Like you and I took a coursetogether dating and marriage,
courtship and marriage, datingand courtship.
It was something about datingand marriage and relationships,
but one of the things I rememberfrom that was putting your
(18:12):
spouse first before your kids,and it was probably just like a
really you know a couple minutesof one of the classes one time,
not even like a hugecornerstone, but it really stood
out to me and so that'ssomething I I try to do is that
when I come home or when we getup in the morning like if both
(18:32):
you and Liam are up like I'mgoing to come to you first.
You know I'm going to come sayhi to you, I'm going to come
give you a kiss and a hug beforeI go to him.
So I think just that issomething I want to do
intentionally, to make sure thathe understands you know that
you're 1A in our lives.
And also I think that one ofthe bigger things is expressing
(18:53):
that to the kids, like lettingthem know that you know your
spouse is your highest priority.
I think for a lot of people thatmaybe they've never heard that
or thought of that or it'ssupposed to be equal or the kids
are supposed.
You know everything is aboutthe kids, but if your marriage
is not strong, then you're notgoing to be the best parents for
the kids.
They need a strong mom and dadto be a strong husband and wife,
(19:17):
to show them what it looks liketo have a strong marriage and
then to be unified, to be ableto parent in a unified way and
to be unified in terms ofrelationship with Jesus, to be
able to model that.
So I think just showing it youknow every day, and just that
reminder, letting them knowexplicitly this is the case, and
then carrying that out and Ithink I've even seen I don't
(19:40):
know if it's movies or TV orreal life or something, but kids
reminding you know, like hey,dad, you didn't kiss mom yet you
know, or like give mom a hug,like bringing them in on it,
like this is how it is, and thatI think can make the kids feel
even more loved and secure whenthey can see their parents like
that.
So I don't know if that's thegreatest answer to it.
(20:00):
That always just kind of stuckwith me in terms of like just
making sure everyone knows.
Oh, and I was going to say thisquestion keeping your marriage
a priority.
I don't think it was intendedthat way in terms of, like it's
just one of other priorities.
Like I would say, keeping yourmarriage the priority.
When it comes to marriage andkids, the marriage is the
(20:22):
priority and making sureeveryone knows that and you live
that way and then other peoplecan kind of help.
You know the kids can help withthat in terms of engaging.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, I completely agree with you and you said most
of what I was going to say.
I remember that class.
I remember that, standing outto me, my parents would say they
didn't have this teaching andso I was sort of the center of
their world.
I was sort of an idol to them,and a lot of parents, I think,
can resonate with that.
It's very easy to love yourkids.
Kids are hard, but it's easy tolove them and put them at the
center of your life and atcenter of your marriage and put
your identity in them, just asit is easy to put your identity
(20:53):
in your marriage.
But that's where we heard it.
I remember it sticking with meand if you were to ask Liam, you
know what is?
What's my priority, in order ofwhat I love?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
most he would say Jesus, daddy, me, and it's not
something that makes him feelinsecure, it's something that
makes him feel secure, which iswhat you touched on.
I'm gonna go on to the next one.
How do you?
Oh no, it's your turn, I'mgonna go on that.
I would just say last thing onthat.
I think we probably I thinkeverybody probably knows
marriages that have centeredaround the kids and then when
the kids are out of the picture,then the marriage has atrophied
and there's nothing else to it.
So I think that's another onewhere you have to actively work
(21:32):
on this, because I think thedefault would be to just center
around the kids.
It's easier, it makes sense,that's what you see in other
places, so it's just a reallyimportant thing.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
But we also didn't give any practical.
Like you know, you and I getaway.
Sometimes my parents take me in, we get away.
Sometimes, you know, my parentstake me home, we get away.
I would say we have had seasonsthat are better than others,
where we're more consistentlydoing date nights.
It's not something that rightnow we're consistently doing, I
think, probably in terms of myrecovery and how crummy I've
been feeling for a long time,but that kind of stuff is also
really healthy.
To get a babysitter and to golook at each other face to face,
(22:03):
with no kids needing yourattention.
Put your phones away, haveconversation super important,
practically.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, probably a lot more we could say on that.
All right, how do you become inalignment with one another and
know it's from God?
And some of the examples herewere adoption, abidable where to
live, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Well, definitely this is another thing that we've
evolved in.
When we first got married, wejust kind of did things Like if
it felt good.
We did it.
Now that we're older and somuch wiser, now that we are
abiding in the Word, there's aconviction there to involve God
in the process of thosedecisions and I think also just
simply by the sheer fact that weare every day, you know, in the
(22:44):
Word and praying throughdecisions that we make together,
it's like a much more naturalpath that we fall into, whereas
that would have been a littlemore awkward in our early days.
Like let's pray about it.
Like what you know, we didn'tpray about big decisions.
I would even say like, honestly, I didn't pray a lot about
marriage.
I think I kind of did Like Idon't think I knew what it meant
(23:06):
to be in alignment with hiswill, because I wasn't
constantly abiding in his will.
It's like the idea of seekingfirst his kingdom and then all
these other things will be added.
Like when you are abiding inhim, there is a check in the
spirit.
You know, this isn't, thisisn't the right decision for us,
or we need to wait on this, orwe need to take more time to
pray through it or we need totalk more through it, like there
is a willingness to not rushinto things, I think, when
(23:28):
you're abiding, whereas beforewe would just you know it feels
good.
I think it's good, we'll do it.
I mean, I'm not saying wedidn't pray through our adoption
process we definitely did butmore recently, like things like
Abidable, I mean we would go onprayer walks and even now, like
if there's something that I'mstruggling with or something I'm
trying to decide to do, I willask Jason to pray for me and we
will talk through it.
It's a combination of abidingin the word and then maturing.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah, I mean I'm not going to say anything different,
I think I would just echo itstarts and the foundation has to
be time in the word and prayer,because that's where we're
going to know what the heart ofGod is and what he has told us
explicitly in the word.
So those are the first and thefoundational pieces To build off
(24:12):
of that.
It's just, you know, you and Idiscussing things together,
talking out, you know, what arewe hearing, what are we thinking
, what are we seeing in the Word, what's smart, whatever?
We know, whether it'sbiblically, practically life
experience, preferences, allthose things talking that
through, and sometimes that'senough.
You know, like we do, that it'svery clearly written in the
(24:35):
Bible.
This is what we should do.
It's pretty obvious.
This is the way we go.
There's other things where dowe start?
Abidable or not?
I have not found the Bibleverse yet that says thou shalt
start abidable.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Well, we don't read the King James.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I have not found the verse that says you shall start
a bite of wool.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
No offense to the King James.
I know some of you like yourthous and thys.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
But there's things like that where it's like
there's nothing that explicitlysays that.
And there are even smallerthings, you know, like should we
spend money to go see thismovie tonight?
You know, things like that.
Sometimes there's notnecessarily a right or wrong
answer.
You know there's a betteranswer.
This is good for us and maybenot for other people.
So I think, just like, if theBible says something, there you
(25:20):
go, there's your answer.
If it says clearly, if itdoesn't, we discuss.
We have wise counsel, you know,depending on the severity of
the decision and then sometimesit's just a matter of let's take
a step and see.
Yeah, you know like both ofthese things could be good.
We're not hearing anything thattells us one way or the other.
There's no right or wrong here.
(25:40):
Let's take a step and see whatdoors open, which doors close,
which one is more fun.
You know we feel better.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Like, yeah, more in alignment with our passion, our
calling, who we are.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Do we go to Disneyland or Disney World, Do
we go to Europe or on a cruiseLike they're all good, you know?
So I think it just depends.
But yeah, I think we nailedthat one.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And I would add in, just to put a little asterisk
and a highlight by Wise Counsel,when we've had to make big
decisions, including abidable,we sat down with our pastor and
his wife and said here's what'son our heart, here's what we
want to do, like, test us, tryus, ask us questions, challenge
us.
We want to be known in this.
We don't want to be a vacuum orisolated, we want to be under
authority in what we're doing.
And it was great, like ourpastor really did challenge us
(26:24):
and ask some great, good, hardquestions and also said like if
you're gonna you know, presumeto be a teacher, you will be
judged more strictly and if youare gonna be teaching people the
word of god, they will put youin a pastoral role and you are
making a commitment tofaithfully serve them.
And also a challenge to pointthem back to the church.
You know, to not become thechurch for them online, but to
point them back to the value andthe beauty of the local church
(26:46):
and being a member and to serveand to all of that.
Anyway, so it was like reallygood, like there have been many
times in our life where we havea trusted, older, wiser or maybe
not even in age, but like interms of maturity in Christ and
the body of Christ and the wordof God, that we've gone to
people for counsel.
Okay, so this last question wasthe most common question that
we received.
It was worded a littledifferently each time, but this
(27:07):
is the general idea you've.
It was worded a littledifferently each time, but this
is the general idea.
How can I encourage my husbandto get in the word without
sounding like a nagging wife.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
It's a great question , and I don't know if I have an
answer.
The unsatisfying answer, Ithink, is it depends on the
relationship, Like what's goingto work for one relationship may
not for another one.
One answer may also be thatyou're not going to be able to
do it without sounding like anagging wife.
Unfortunately, that doesn'tsound great, but sometimes that
(27:37):
may be what's necessary too, andI think of my for myself.
There are plenty of times whenI'm convicted, or I know I
should be doing something, andthen you come and you can do it,
Like just the question we hadearlier about conflict and
communication.
You could come and say it inthe most loving, humble ask a
question way, but because I knowI'm supposed to be doing it and
(27:58):
I'm feeling that conviction,I'm not going to hear it or I'm
going to be upset that you asked.
So there's nothing that you didwrong or could have done better
.
It's just a matter of my pridedid not want that at that time.
So I say that, in terms of,there may not be a great way to
not sound like a quote-unquotenagging wife in the way that you
(28:19):
do it.
What I would say, though, is Ithink the first thing would be
asking the Holy Spirit to bethat person for your husband,
Because the Holy Spirit is goingto be able to do better than
you can anyway.
And so just continuing to be inprayer for your husband, asking
the Holy Spirit, whether it'sthrough you or through somebody
(28:42):
else or whatever, I mean God canuse anything.
It could be a coworker, itcould be a situation that
happens in your family orsomething they hear about, it
could be something in the newsthat, like whatever, all of a
sudden just something clicks.
So I think, if nothing else,even if you don't say anything
(29:04):
to them, if you're praying andasking the Holy Spirit like
that's going to be much moreeffective than anything that you
can do.
Praying and asking the HolySpirit like that's going to be
much more effective thananything that you can do.
But other than I mean justpractically, I think asking
questions is generally a goodtact.
You know, instead of being like, you should read your Bible
more why.
You know, why aren't you doingthis?
And you should be like thisperson and I wish you were like.
(29:24):
That's probably going to soundmore nagging than hey have you
thought about this?
Or you know what does this looklike?
I think even sharing, you know,depending again on the
relationship, I think if youshare what you need as a wife
and not can you read your Biblefor me, but this is what I'm
(29:45):
craving or needing or lookingfor, that may come off even
better than what's going tosound like potentially.
Again, why aren't you doingthis and pointing the finger and
and blaming?
It's going to invite them inpotentially more to see like, oh
, I want to love my wife well,and if you're asking that that
(30:05):
may resonate more than just youshould be doing doing this thing
, and I don't know I mean againthat that could backfire also,
because that could still likeagain, it's the condition of the
heart that the pride is, couldget in the way of that, to be
like you're just saying that toget me to do this thing and or
I'll try to love you a differentway.
You know something like that.
(30:26):
But it's just it's.
It's just a hard questionbecause it just depends and a
lot of it's going to come downto the heart of the husband and
the softness and the tendernessand where they're going to allow
truth to be spoken.
So I think, asking the HolySpirit if there are other men
(30:46):
like if they're in the churchbut they're just not studying
the Bible and they're just goingon Sundays and are there other
men that can come around, thatthe husband and speak in or ask
questions or pursue.
You know, sometimes that'sgoing to come off a little bit
better than the wife, buthopefully, and my prayer would
be that, like we talked about inthe first one, that the
(31:10):
marriage is the place, thatthere is a unity and a
partnership, that over time yousee growth.
And when my wife says somethingto me, it carries weight and it
moves me and I want to grow andI want to hear that and love
her in that way.
And if she's saying it, it mustbe serious you know, and I I
(31:33):
always think about people whoare willing to come and confront
you like that's such a big deal, like that needs to carry
weight for you, because theydidn't need to come do this,
like they could have just beenlike, yeah, they're harming
themselves or there's more forthem, but if I go and approach
them, it may not go well, I'mjust going to keep walking.
(31:53):
I'm not going to say that I havenothing to gain by going and
doing that for them.
So if they've gone out of theirway to say like hey, I wanted
to ask you this, I want to tellyou this, I care about you, like
that should cause you to pauseand go.
Okay, they're taking time outto do this, they have courage to
come do this, they care aboutme enough.
It must be serious, there mustbe some weight to it.
(32:15):
So that would just be.
My prayer is that pride woulddrop and there would be a
humility before God has to comein and tear that out and break
somebody, but sometimes that'swhat's needed too.
So I don't know if that'shelpful or satisfying in any way
.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
It's helpful to hear it from a guy's perspective.
I think I have.
You know, we're already overour time here and I have so many
thoughts that I want to shareon this, because behind this
question I hear pain and longing.
You know, I know that there aremany women who desperately want
to be in a God-centeredmarriage and want a husband who
loves the word of God maybe asmuch as they do, who's in it as
(32:54):
much as they are, who's leadingand doing all these things, and
maybe that's just not the caseand maybe there's not.
You know, whether or not he'sin church or in a church where
there are godly men who are inthe word, who could even come
alongside him and show what thatlooks like, side him and show
what that looks like.
There are churches, maybe,where that's not the culture.
You and I definitely have beenin churches where that's not the
culture, where men would evenknow how to come alongside you
and counsel you, mentor you tobe in the word, because they're
(33:15):
not in the word and nobody evermentored them Like.
Thankfully, we are in a churchwhere that's not the case now
and a church that preaches theword and men know how to come
alongside you in that way, but Ithink I would say it is a good
desire to have your husband bein the word.
It is a desire that God has puton your heart, and if it is a
(33:36):
good desire that is from theLord, then he can do it.
So, one, be encouraged.
Two, like Jason said, pray.
The Holy Spirit can do anything.
Pray more than you nag, praymore than you speak, pray before
you speak and ask the HolySpirit to reveal to you what the
roadblocks are for your husband.
The word of God is his very life.
It is meant to be his dailybread.
If he is not in the word, he isnot getting life nor bread, and
(33:58):
your husband is starving.
And so, instead of coming athim as an attack out of
frustration, there should be aheart of tenderness, compassion,
concern and care that you.
You know what you want for himto be, and the reason you want
him to be in the word is becauseyou want him to know and love
God more.
That's the whole purpose ofreading the word of God.
And if he's not in the word, hedoes not yet understand who God
(34:20):
is and how worthy he is of thattime, because once you start to
understand that we've all seen,like those of us that are
abiding in this way, it's themain thing that you want to do.
It is your favorite part of theday to be in the word, and I
understand for you women thatare asking this question, that
is the desire that you have foryour husband.
I would come at you in love andsay are you in the word every
day?
And what's your motivation?
(34:40):
Not to be holy, not to show off, not to put on a show for your
husband, but to be in the word,steadfast, every day, no matter
what your husband is doing.
And if you are, then what'sgoing to happen is the
transformation, as God works inyou and through you, for your
husband to see somethingdifferent in you.
I would say that that'sprobably what happened with you
and I, like you've been in theword and you've read, but like
(35:02):
in terms of where you are nowand what God put on my heart,
calling me back and studying inthis way, like I think you've
probably seen moretransformation.
I had a lot of transformationthat needed to happen, and so I
think that your testimony andwitness to your husband as the
word of God transforms you to bemore patient, more kind, more
loving, to serve more, to showup more, to listen better.
(35:25):
You know.
Going back to even thecommunication piece, I was
thinking like one of the waysthat could potentially open the
door for you to have thisconversation more with your
husband about being in the wordis how you speak to him on other
occasions.
Are you cutting him down, areyou interrupting him, are you
disrespecting him, are youspeaking poorly about him to
other people in front of him orbehind his back, like those are
the sorts of things also thatreally can damage a conversation
(35:48):
.
Like, hey, can you?
You know, I want to be in theWord with you, so you know who
are you and what are you doing.
And how are you abiding in theWord of God?
Like I had to start with myself, like I'm not going to try to
be.
Like, though I want him to leadand though I want him to take
the baton with that and abidingin the Word, I am only able to
control my own decisions and myown behavior, and so I better at
(36:11):
least be myself seeking God inthat way, abiding in his word
myself.
And it's that idea of a womanwith a gentle and quiet spirit
can have such an I know that'sfor an unbelieving husband, but
that can truly have such animpact on your husband as he
watches you.
So I think that's what I wouldsay.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, I think you hit on a good reminder because I
think my response may have beena little bit less uplifting and
encouraging, but I think toremind everybody that God can do
far more abundantly thananything we can ask or imagine.
And even this morning in ourband of brothers one of the guys
was talking about restoringrelationships in his family, and
(36:51):
so we were looking at Joelwhere it talks about God can
restore the years that thelocusts have eaten and so
carrying those two things thatGod can do more than we can
imagine.
And then, even if it's been along time and you start to get
discouraged like are we wastingtime, you know, are we losing
time?
(37:11):
Will it ever happen?
And God can do it?
And then he can restore thattime, and even more abundantly
than it would have been before.
So I think remembering thosethings and not getting
discouraged and not giving up isI want to make sure that we
include that in my response also.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Wonderful.
Thank you for answering allthose questions.
Okay, and that's it for thisepisode.
If you know someone who wouldbe blessed by what you just
heard, please share the AbitablePodcast with them.
Keep spreading the word so wecan make much of the word.
Drop us a review, tell us whatyou love and what you're
learning.
Check out the link to learnmore about partnering with us by
(37:54):
buying us a coffee one time, byjoining our Women's Abitable
Plus membership community for$10 a month or by becoming a
monthly supporter.
In next week's episode, we willbe talking about abiding
together, which is sort of wherewe just landed this episode.
We're excited to be able to gomore in depth with you on what
it looks like for us, as amarried couple and as a family,
(38:15):
to do Bible study, prayer anddiscipleship together.
You guys have sent in somegreat questions and we can't
wait to answer them next week.
As always, remember you areable to abide in the Bible.
We'll see you next time.
Until then, let's abide.
Hey guys, this is Kate from Abitablecom and you're
listening to the AbitablePodcast.
I'm just a regular wife and momwho's had my life transformed
by learning to study the Bibleon my own.
If I can, you can.
On this show, I help you knowand love God more by abiding in
Him through His Word yourself.
(00:21):
Surprisingly, the key to a goodmarriage is not the pursuit of
a good marriage, but to pursuethe honor of God.
That is a quote fromChristopher Ashe, and you can
(00:42):
probably guess what our topic istoday for our second episode in
this Ask Us Anything series.
You have sent in a series ofquestions on marriage and we're
going to get into those.
I've got Jason back here, myhusband with us again, to go
through these questions, but wewanted to lay that framework for
you that our belief, ourbiblical belief, is that the
purpose of marriage is thepursuit of honoring God.
(01:05):
Marriage is about companionshipand unity, as well as
partnership and mission.
Marriage is about reflectingChrist and the church.
It's about having godlyoffspring and generational faith
, and really marriage is awitness to the world, and so we
wanted to start out with thatframework of understanding.
This is what we believe thepurpose of marriage to be before
(01:27):
we get into those questions.
Certainly, these things willcome back up, but I get to kick
it off with the first question.
First of all, hello.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Our first question from our listeners is how do you
view?
So like we're getting a littlemore serious right.
Like last week we were liketalking about how we met and
like our favorite or like ourideas for inventions.
This week we're talking likewe're jumping into marriage.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, I was serious last week too.
I thought that was a seriouspodcast.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
That was not a serious.
This is a serious podcast.
I mean we are not going to beable to, in 30 minutes-ish,
cover every single thing aboutbiblical marriage, but we're
going gonna get like a littlemore a little more into it.
We're gonna get there we'regonna get there, okay.
So here's the first questionthat you can answer, and then
I'll see if I have anything toadd.
How do you view leadership andor partnership within your home,
(02:17):
both spiritually andholistically, and has this
always been the case or has itevolved?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Wow, okay, this is a serious podcast, so we are going
to go right into it.
I think we view and I can saywe, because this is a
conversation that you and I havehad and continue to have, and
we are on the same page about it.
So leadership and partnership,both spiritually and
holistically, is that I am thehead of the household and I mean
(02:48):
I think the question is a goodone in terms of partnership,
because it truly is apartnership.
So when I think about, you know, the idea of me being the head
or the lead of the house,there's a few different things
that come to mind.
I think first would beEphesians 5, where it talks
about the relationship betweenhusband and wife and a husband
(03:09):
leading the wife.
But it's as Christ loves thechurch, and so there's a weight
and a heaviness to that and aresponsibility that it's not a
husband who just wields powerand makes all the decisions and
has subjects loyal or disloyalsubjects in the house, but there
is a responsibility to love asChrist loved the church.
(03:32):
So when you view headship thatway, it takes on a different
meaning than I think a lot ofpeople think.
But then also you've got 1Timothy 3, where it talks about
managing your household andthere's a responsibility there
too.
And then 1 Peter 3 talks aboutliving with your wives in an
understanding way.
So going back to the way thatChrist loved the church, again,
(03:54):
there's a leadership and aheadship, but it's in an
understanding way.
And I think that the way that wehandle things is that, if I
need to, I can break a tie, butwe try to make decisions
together and if we are on thesame page, then that's fantastic
.
You know, I think we're goingto get into that.
And one of the questions, too,about you know kind of how we
communicate and how we're inalignment on things and
(04:16):
generally we're going to be onthe same page.
You know, as Christians, aspeople who love Jesus, we're
going to try to follow what theBible says on things.
But there are also verypractical modern day.
You know, should we buy thisthing?
Should we go to this place?
Should we take that trip?
And usually we're on the samepage about those things.
But if it came down to it, thenthat would be something where I
(04:38):
would do what I think is bestfor the family, obviously
valuing your perspective, Liam'sperspective, getting wise
counsel.
You know, not being done in avacuum.
So I take that responsibilityand that weight very seriously.
But I think to the second parthas it always been the case or
has it evolved?
You know, I think I woulddefinitely say it's evolved
(04:59):
because as we've grown it haslooked different.
I think we've always had thesame general perspective on this
is what the Bible says, this iswhat we believe, but because of
who we've been and beingimmature and growing, there have
been times that I have not ledor I haven't led well, which
makes it hard for you to submitin your role, and you know it
(05:23):
may not feel safe.
So why would I submit to that?
Or even if I am submitting, I'ma little bit nervous about what
that means, what that couldlook like.
So I think it's evolved, Ithink it's grown, but I think
it's always been generally thesame.
It's just maybe played outdifferently.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, don't you feel like we could talk for an hour
about this?
I mean, this is such a complextopic not complex in the sense
of what God says about it.
You mentioned Ephesians 5 andjust a couple like here's word
for word, you know, a coupleexcerpts from that passage Ephes
the wife, even as Christ is thehead of the church, and then
you already mentioned thishusbands, love your wives as
(06:07):
Christ loved the church.
And it says this mystery isprofound, and I am saying that
it refers to Christ in thechurch.
And I think, just an aside, youknow, I want to talk about us
and our relationship and add ona little bit to what you said,
but just as an aside, like fromthe world's perspective, this is
offensive.
You know, this is archaic.
And this is also something thathas certainly been abused.
(06:29):
You know this is like I almostsaid something I probably
shouldn't have, but you knowthis idea of the patriarchy in
the sense of it being abused andI would say certainly it has
been Certainly there have beenmen in the history of the church
and of the faith who have takenthis verse and used it as a
hammer for women, and we wouldsay that, biblically, what this
does not mean is to submit to aman who is abusive, to submit to
(06:52):
a man who is violent, who isasking his wife or commanding
his wife and children and familyto do ungodly things.
So that's an important caveat.
I think that we need to say,and I also want to say that the
more you know and love God andunderstand his heart for us, his
heart for marriage, his heartfor husbands and for wives, the
(07:13):
more you understand the beautyof this command, starting with
the law, starting with thecommand, starting with the rule
and trying to disconnect thatfrom who God is and what his
heart is.
You know he desires familiesthat are whole, children that
are seeing an example ofsacrifice, of respect, of
(07:36):
security, of all of the thingsthat can come from a home where
this is walked out, but Iunderstand that to the world and
you know, I don't know who'slistening to this podcast,
probably primarily people who'veheard this verse before, but I
think it's an important caveat.
Now I would add in for me theidea of I was aware of the idea
when we got married, when I was23 years old.
(07:56):
I was aware of this idea ofsubmitting to your husbands as
to the Lord, but I had no ideahow to do that, especially.
You know, just like you'resaying, you didn't know how to
lead.
I think that, again, abiding inChrist transforms your ability
in any capacity to follow any ofhis laws, including the idea of
for me submitting to you.
Just because you were maybe atstep one in leading when we
(08:21):
first got married and didn'tfully know how to walk that out,
didn't excuse me from followingthe command of submitting and I
, as somebody who is incrediblyindependent, incredibly
controlling, this has been areally hard one for me and God
has really had to refine me overtime and, as he has, I know
he's also been refining you.
It's the beauty of what he'sdoing in a relationship with two
(08:43):
people who are trying.
You know, certainly notperfectly.
Over the years We've beenmarried almost 20 years this
coming summer that he is at workin us to make this more
possible.
I would definitely say that I dofeel safer submitting to you
now, not because you doeverything perfectly or because
you have no sin, but because youare submitting to Christ.
You are quicker to repent.
(09:05):
You let me know when you'restruggling with things.
So the safety of that, you know, the safety that I feel in you
is that you are submitting toChrist and I definitely feel,
like you said, our marriage is apartnership and we're able to
talk things through.
But the point here that I wouldlike to close on, I guess, is
that you know my call to submitto you is the call that Christ
has on me as a wife, regardlessof what you are doing.
(09:26):
Again, aside from and apartfrom any sort of abusive
behavior, that would requiredifferent kind of discipline and
other people getting involvedyour turn.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
All right.
Question number two how do youwork on communicating with one
another within your marriage?
Related how do you work throughconflict together?
And before we go into ouranswers to this, there's a quote
that I think we wanted to readfrom Paul Washer, and it says
how would you ever learnunconditional love if you were
married to someone who met allthe conditions?
(09:55):
How would you ever learn mercy,patience, long-suffering,
heartfelt compassion if you weremarried to someone who never
failed you, who was neverdifficult with you, who never
sinned against you, who wasnever slow to acknowledge their
sin or ask for forgiveness?
How would you ever learn graceTo pour out your favor on
someone who did not deserve itif you were married to someone
(10:17):
who was always deserving of allgood things?
The main purpose of marriage isthat through your marriage, you
both become conformed to theimage of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, we wanted to lead with this quote because we
think that communication stemsfrom how you see each other, as
well as conflict, which is apart of communication, and how
you see marriage.
If I see you as my be-all,end-all, the one who has to
bring me my happiness and I putall my eggs in the Jason basket
as well as seeing marriage asthe purpose of marriage is my
(10:49):
happiness and my security and my, my, my then communication is
always going to be difficultbecause anytime that you pop
that bubble and you know marthat image, I'm going to be
approaching you from thatstandpoint of bitterness and
resentment and trying to evenbring you to the side of you
(11:12):
know you need to change, youneed to do X, y and Z to fill
those needs in me.
And so I think, starting withthis understanding that the
purpose of marriage is to pursuethe honor of God, for a husband
to love his wife as Christloves the church, for a wife to
submit to her husband, I thinkthat that really isn't a pivotal
starting point how we see eachother, that I see you as a
(11:34):
brother in Christ who is inprocess.
You are a sinner saved by grace, just as I am a sinner saved by
grace and in all of ourcommunication, remembering that
and remembering that you needhim just as much as I need him,
and like the goal is, you know,unity in him.
I think that transforms how wecommunicate.
One of the main things I'velearned, that I didn't do well
when we were first married and Ihope I've grown in is assuming
(11:59):
the best in what you're doing,what you're saying, how you're
saying it, just because youmight not.
I should tell the story of thetime that I cried when I
realized how difficult I wasbeing.
Just because you don'tcommunicate in exactly the right
way, with the right tone andsay the exact right words to me
doesn't mean that I shouldassign a certain or ascribe a
certain motive to you and whatyou are attempting to do and to
(12:20):
say and to be the best that youcan In that particular moment.
There was a moment early on inour marriage where we were
having a fight and you were liketrying to figure out what you
could have said or what youcould have done differently, and
I was like trying to explain toyou and I realized and then I
(12:41):
started to cry how particular Iwas being and how much I was
really forcing you to walk oneggshells, like you had to.
You know, say it just with acertain tone and look at me with
just the certain expression inyour face and tilt your head 45
degrees to the right and, like,gently, put your hand on my hand
.
Like what did I expect?
It was so over the top that Istarted to cry and I said I'm,
(13:03):
I'm really difficult, aren't I?
And I would say in our marriageI've certainly been the more
difficult one.
I think that you are a man ofgreat patience.
My mother calls you Saint Jason.
My mother loves me, but sheknows I can be difficult too,
and she calls you Saint Jasonbecause you're good for me.
You know, you've taught me alot and I said that last week
about steadfastness and patienceand all of those things.
(13:25):
So I would say the main thingin communication is assuming or
ascribing pure motives to theother person when they are
communicating with you andasking questions like when you
said this, when you did this,like what did you intend to
communicate?
As opposed to you did this, yousaid this.
(13:47):
This is what you meant, this iswhat you intended to
communicate.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Yeah, I feel like you .
Maybe I wrote my notes a littlebit too big, because it seems
like you're hitting on all thethings that I was thinking of.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
I'm not copying, I swear I can't see that far.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I think that's a good one, though, in terms of
assuming you know, I think youhear assume good intent a lot,
which is not always the case.
That's one thing like this PaulWasher quote it talks about
like we're fallen and we'resinful.
So we don't always do thingswith pure motives and good
intent.
But if we're always assumingnegative intent or we're not
(14:21):
assuming good intent or we'renot giving the benefit of the
doubt, then we're just going tobe in constant conflict.
So, like understanding, whenyou said that thing, you said
these words, but I know that'snot what you meant.
But if I react to what?
But you said this specificthing, instead of pausing and
going wait a minute, I know whoKate is.
(14:42):
She didn't just say that thingto be a jerk, she probably meant
something different.
Or when you said different, orwhen your facial expression was
doing this thing, it's like well, do you know what you look like
?
Yeah, but that's not what Imeant to do.
Well, that's what you look like.
So I think there's an element ofthat in terms of knowing who we
are and how we want to interactwith each other.
(15:04):
So if something doesn't line upwith that, like, well, wait a
minute, she said that that's notwho she really is, that's not
what she wants to convey to meor she doesn't want to hurt me
by saying that.
Sometimes that may be true, butmost of the time it's not.
So I think just having thatperspective in mind, like giving
grace, giving benefit of thedoubt, asking questions instead
(15:26):
of assuming One of my favoriteshows is Ted Lasso and he talks
about being curious, notjudgmental, which, from a
Christian, biblical perspective,I think there's different
elements of that, but just likethe idea in general of being
humble and asking questions andtaking a pause before you jump
into something, and giving grace, I think is always going to be
(15:48):
beneficial.
I think the last one that I wasthinking was just engaging and
not withdrawing, likespecifically with conflict.
I think there's times thatstepping back, taking a second,
is healthy, but I think you knowwe've learned over time facing
that thing, talking about it,you know being head on instead
(16:08):
of you know slamming a door andbeing separate, letting
something fester, not dealingwith it and then hoping it just
goes away, but actually talkingabout it, unpacking it in a
healthy way.
So, yeah, I think everythingyou said hits what I was
thinking also.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, and I think when you're abiding in God
through his word, which I'malways going to bring it back to
, each of you has the spirit.
You know you're walking in thespirit more than you're walking
in the flesh, or at least that'sthe attempt that you're trying
to put the flesh to death and towalk in the spirit, and so you
will be more quick to repent.
Like you're right, we arefallen, and so, while I want to
always ascribe to you the bestintent and the best motives,
that may not always be the case,and so walking in the spirit
(16:45):
means that you are more quick torepent because you are
convicted more quickly.
You're walking with him and youhear him.
You know you hear his voice.
So you're more quick to repent,or I'm more quick to repent.
I am prone in our, you know, ofthe two of us, I'm the one to
walk away, you're the one topursue.
So Jesus is changing that, thatI can stay in the room and
continue to talk, becauseoftentimes, for me, my
(17:11):
frustration in the conflictwhich some people might relate
to is just feeling misunderstood, or feeling frustrated that I'm
not communicating myself well,or then getting halfway into it
and realizing you know, I'm thecapital, j jerk, and you know.
Then there's pride.
Like how quick can I confessand say, hey, like I you know
what, like I really handled Istarted.
I started that out the completewrong way or I handled that in
a really bad way.
Will you forgive me?
Can we start over?
Can we go back?
Repentance is such a gift thatGod gives us.
That should be a frequent partof marriage communication.
(17:35):
I think it's been a hugetransforming element of our
relationship because we didn'tknow how to do that at the
beginning.
We had too much pride.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Am I next?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You're up.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
What are some practical and realistic ways
that you can love your childrenwell but also keep your marriage
a priority?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, this one is interesting.
It's funny the things that Iremember from college.
Like you and I took a coursetogether dating and marriage,
courtship and marriage, datingand courtship.
It was something about datingand marriage and relationships,
but one of the things I rememberfrom that was putting your
(18:12):
spouse first before your kids,and it was probably just like a
really you know a couple minutesof one of the classes one time,
not even like a hugecornerstone, but it really stood
out to me and so that'ssomething I I try to do is that
when I come home or when we getup in the morning like if both
(18:32):
you and Liam are up like I'mgoing to come to you first.
You know I'm going to come sayhi to you, I'm going to come
give you a kiss and a hug beforeI go to him.
So I think just that issomething I want to do
intentionally, to make sure thathe understands you know that
you're 1A in our lives.
And also I think that one ofthe bigger things is expressing
(18:53):
that to the kids, like lettingthem know that you know your
spouse is your highest priority.
I think for a lot of people thatmaybe they've never heard that
or thought of that or it'ssupposed to be equal or the kids
are supposed.
You know everything is aboutthe kids, but if your marriage
is not strong, then you're notgoing to be the best parents for
the kids.
They need a strong mom and dadto be a strong husband and wife,
(19:17):
to show them what it looks liketo have a strong marriage and
then to be unified, to be ableto parent in a unified way and
to be unified in terms ofrelationship with Jesus, to be
able to model that.
So I think just showing it youknow every day, and just that
reminder, letting them knowexplicitly this is the case, and
then carrying that out and Ithink I've even seen I don't
(19:40):
know if it's movies or TV orreal life or something, but kids
reminding you know, like hey,dad, you didn't kiss mom yet you
know, or like give mom a hug,like bringing them in on it,
like this is how it is, and thatI think can make the kids feel
even more loved and secure whenthey can see their parents like
that.
So I don't know if that's thegreatest answer to it.
(20:00):
That always just kind of stuckwith me in terms of like just
making sure everyone knows.
Oh, and I was going to say thisquestion keeping your marriage
a priority.
I don't think it was intendedthat way in terms of, like it's
just one of other priorities.
Like I would say, keeping yourmarriage the priority.
When it comes to marriage andkids, the marriage is the
(20:22):
priority and making sureeveryone knows that and you live
that way and then other peoplecan kind of help.
You know the kids can help withthat in terms of engaging.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, I completely agree with you and you said most
of what I was going to say.
I remember that class.
I remember that, standing outto me, my parents would say they
didn't have this teaching andso I was sort of the center of
their world.
I was sort of an idol to them,and a lot of parents, I think,
can resonate with that.
It's very easy to love yourkids.
Kids are hard, but it's easy tolove them and put them at the
center of your life and atcenter of your marriage and put
your identity in them, just asit is easy to put your identity
(20:53):
in your marriage.
But that's where we heard it.
I remember it sticking with meand if you were to ask Liam, you
know what is?
What's my priority, in order ofwhat I love?
Speaker 2 (21:12):
most he would say Jesus, daddy, me, and it's not
something that makes him feelinsecure, it's something that
makes him feel secure, which iswhat you touched on.
I'm gonna go on to the next one.
How do you?
Oh no, it's your turn, I'mgonna go on that.
I would just say last thing onthat.
I think we probably I thinkeverybody probably knows
marriages that have centeredaround the kids and then when
the kids are out of the picture,then the marriage has atrophied
and there's nothing else to it.
So I think that's another onewhere you have to actively work
(21:32):
on this, because I think thedefault would be to just center
around the kids.
It's easier, it makes sense,that's what you see in other
places, so it's just a reallyimportant thing.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
But we also didn't give any practical.
Like you know, you and I getaway.
Sometimes my parents take me in, we get away.
Sometimes, you know, my parentstake me home, we get away.
I would say we have had seasonsthat are better than others,
where we're more consistentlydoing date nights.
It's not something that rightnow we're consistently doing, I
think, probably in terms of myrecovery and how crummy I've
been feeling for a long time,but that kind of stuff is also
really healthy.
To get a babysitter and to golook at each other face to face,
(22:03):
with no kids needing yourattention.
Put your phones away, haveconversation super important,
practically.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah, probably a lot more we could say on that.
All right, how do you become inalignment with one another and
know it's from God?
And some of the examples herewere adoption, abidable where to
live, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Well, definitely this is another thing that we've
evolved in.
When we first got married, wejust kind of did things Like if
it felt good.
We did it.
Now that we're older and somuch wiser, now that we are
abiding in the Word, there's aconviction there to involve God
in the process of thosedecisions and I think also just
simply by the sheer fact that weare every day, you know, in the
(22:44):
Word and praying throughdecisions that we make together,
it's like a much more naturalpath that we fall into, whereas
that would have been a littlemore awkward in our early days.
Like let's pray about it.
Like what you know, we didn'tpray about big decisions.
I would even say like, honestly, I didn't pray a lot about
marriage.
I think I kind of did Like Idon't think I knew what it meant
(23:06):
to be in alignment with hiswill, because I wasn't
constantly abiding in his will.
It's like the idea of seekingfirst his kingdom and then all
these other things will be added.
Like when you are abiding inhim, there is a check in the
spirit.
You know, this isn't, thisisn't the right decision for us,
or we need to wait on this, orwe need to take more time to
pray through it or we need totalk more through it, like there
is a willingness to not rushinto things, I think, when
(23:28):
you're abiding, whereas beforewe would just you know it feels
good.
I think it's good, we'll do it.
I mean, I'm not saying wedidn't pray through our adoption
process we definitely did butmore recently, like things like
Abidable, I mean we would go onprayer walks and even now, like
if there's something that I'mstruggling with or something I'm
trying to decide to do, I willask Jason to pray for me and we
will talk through it.
It's a combination of abidingin the word and then maturing.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Yeah, I mean I'm not going to say anything different,
I think I would just echo itstarts and the foundation has to
be time in the word and prayer,because that's where we're
going to know what the heart ofGod is and what he has told us
explicitly in the word.
So those are the first and thefoundational pieces To build off
(24:12):
of that.
It's just, you know, you and Idiscussing things together,
talking out, you know, what arewe hearing, what are we thinking
, what are we seeing in the Word, what's smart, whatever?
We know, whether it'sbiblically, practically life
experience, preferences, allthose things talking that
through, and sometimes that'senough.
You know, like we do, that it'svery clearly written in the
(24:35):
Bible.
This is what we should do.
It's pretty obvious.
This is the way we go.
There's other things where dowe start?
Abidable or not?
I have not found the Bibleverse yet that says thou shalt
start abidable.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
Well, we don't read the King James.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I have not found the verse that says you shall start
a bite of wool.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
No offense to the King James.
I know some of you like yourthous and thys.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
But there's things like that where it's like
there's nothing that explicitlysays that.
And there are even smallerthings, you know, like should we
spend money to go see thismovie tonight?
You know, things like that.
Sometimes there's notnecessarily a right or wrong
answer.
You know there's a betteranswer.
This is good for us and maybenot for other people.
So I think, just like, if theBible says something, there you
(25:20):
go, there's your answer.
If it says clearly, if itdoesn't, we discuss.
We have wise counsel, you know,depending on the severity of
the decision and then sometimesit's just a matter of let's take
a step and see.
Yeah, you know like both ofthese things could be good.
We're not hearing anything thattells us one way or the other.
There's no right or wrong here.
(25:40):
Let's take a step and see whatdoors open, which doors close,
which one is more fun.
You know we feel better.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Like, yeah, more in alignment with our passion, our
calling, who we are.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Do we go to Disneyland or Disney World, Do
we go to Europe or on a cruiseLike they're all good, you know?
So I think it just depends.
But yeah, I think we nailedthat one.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And I would add in, just to put a little asterisk
and a highlight by Wise Counsel,when we've had to make big
decisions, including abidable,we sat down with our pastor and
his wife and said here's what'son our heart, here's what we
want to do, like, test us, tryus, ask us questions, challenge
us.
We want to be known in this.
We don't want to be a vacuum orisolated, we want to be under
authority in what we're doing.
And it was great, like ourpastor really did challenge us
(26:24):
and ask some great, good, hardquestions and also said like if
you're gonna you know, presumeto be a teacher, you will be
judged more strictly and if youare gonna be teaching people the
word of god, they will put youin a pastoral role and you are
making a commitment tofaithfully serve them.
And also a challenge to pointthem back to the church.
You know, to not become thechurch for them online, but to
point them back to the value andthe beauty of the local church
(26:46):
and being a member and to serveand to all of that.
Anyway, so it was like reallygood, like there have been many
times in our life where we havea trusted, older, wiser or maybe
not even in age, but like interms of maturity in Christ and
the body of Christ and the wordof God, that we've gone to
people for counsel.
Okay, so this last question wasthe most common question that
we received.
It was worded a littledifferently each time, but this
(27:07):
is the general idea you've.
It was worded a littledifferently each time, but this
is the general idea.
How can I encourage my husbandto get in the word without
sounding like a nagging wife.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
It's a great question , and I don't know if I have an
answer.
The unsatisfying answer, Ithink, is it depends on the
relationship, Like what's goingto work for one relationship may
not for another one.
One answer may also be thatyou're not going to be able to
do it without sounding like anagging wife.
Unfortunately, that doesn'tsound great, but sometimes that
(27:37):
may be what's necessary too, andI think of my for myself.
There are plenty of times whenI'm convicted, or I know I
should be doing something, andthen you come and you can do it,
Like just the question we hadearlier about conflict and
communication.
You could come and say it inthe most loving, humble ask a
question way, but because I knowI'm supposed to be doing it and
(27:58):
I'm feeling that conviction,I'm not going to hear it or I'm
going to be upset that you asked.
So there's nothing that you didwrong or could have done better
.
It's just a matter of my pridedid not want that at that time.
So I say that, in terms of,there may not be a great way to
not sound like a quote-unquotenagging wife in the way that you
(28:19):
do it.
What I would say, though, is Ithink the first thing would be
asking the Holy Spirit to bethat person for your husband,
Because the Holy Spirit is goingto be able to do better than
you can anyway.
And so just continuing to be inprayer for your husband, asking
the Holy Spirit, whether it'sthrough you or through somebody
(28:42):
else or whatever, I mean God canuse anything.
It could be a coworker, itcould be a situation that
happens in your family orsomething they hear about, it
could be something in the newsthat, like whatever, all of a
sudden just something clicks.
So I think, if nothing else,even if you don't say anything
(29:04):
to them, if you're praying andasking the Holy Spirit like
that's going to be much moreeffective than anything that you
can do.
Praying and asking the HolySpirit like that's going to be
much more effective thananything that you can do.
But other than I mean justpractically, I think asking
questions is generally a goodtact.
You know, instead of being like, you should read your Bible
more why.
You know, why aren't you doingthis?
And you should be like thisperson and I wish you were like.
(29:24):
That's probably going to soundmore nagging than hey have you
thought about this?
Or you know what does this looklike?
I think even sharing, you know,depending again on the
relationship, I think if youshare what you need as a wife
and not can you read your Biblefor me, but this is what I'm
(29:45):
craving or needing or lookingfor, that may come off even
better than what's going tosound like potentially.
Again, why aren't you doingthis and pointing the finger and
and blaming?
It's going to invite them inpotentially more to see like, oh
, I want to love my wife well,and if you're asking that that
(30:05):
may resonate more than just youshould be doing doing this thing
, and I don't know I mean againthat that could backfire also,
because that could still likeagain, it's the condition of the
heart that the pride is, couldget in the way of that, to be
like you're just saying that toget me to do this thing and or
I'll try to love you a differentway.
You know something like that.
(30:26):
But it's just it's.
It's just a hard questionbecause it just depends and a
lot of it's going to come downto the heart of the husband and
the softness and the tendernessand where they're going to allow
truth to be spoken.
So I think, asking the HolySpirit if there are other men
(30:46):
like if they're in the churchbut they're just not studying
the Bible and they're just goingon Sundays and are there other
men that can come around, thatthe husband and speak in or ask
questions or pursue.
You know, sometimes that'sgoing to come off a little bit
better than the wife, buthopefully, and my prayer would
be that, like we talked about inthe first one, that the
(31:10):
marriage is the place, thatthere is a unity and a
partnership, that over time yousee growth.
And when my wife says somethingto me, it carries weight and it
moves me and I want to grow andI want to hear that and love
her in that way.
And if she's saying it, it mustbe serious you know, and I I
(31:33):
always think about people whoare willing to come and confront
you like that's such a big deal, like that needs to carry
weight for you, because theydidn't need to come do this,
like they could have just beenlike, yeah, they're harming
themselves or there's more forthem, but if I go and approach
them, it may not go well, I'mjust going to keep walking.
(31:53):
I'm not going to say that I havenothing to gain by going and
doing that for them.
So if they've gone out of theirway to say like hey, I wanted
to ask you this, I want to tellyou this, I care about you, like
that should cause you to pauseand go.
Okay, they're taking time outto do this, they have courage to
come do this, they care aboutme enough.
It must be serious, there mustbe some weight to it.
(32:15):
So that would just be.
My prayer is that pride woulddrop and there would be a
humility before God has to comein and tear that out and break
somebody, but sometimes that'swhat's needed too.
So I don't know if that'shelpful or satisfying in any way
.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
It's helpful to hear it from a guy's perspective.
I think I have.
You know, we're already overour time here and I have so many
thoughts that I want to shareon this, because behind this
question I hear pain and longing.
You know, I know that there aremany women who desperately want
to be in a God-centeredmarriage and want a husband who
loves the word of God maybe asmuch as they do, who's in it as
(32:54):
much as they are, who's leadingand doing all these things, and
maybe that's just not the caseand maybe there's not.
You know, whether or not he'sin church or in a church where
there are godly men who are inthe word, who could even come
alongside him and show what thatlooks like, side him and show
what that looks like.
There are churches, maybe,where that's not the culture.
You and I definitely have beenin churches where that's not the
culture, where men would evenknow how to come alongside you
and counsel you, mentor you tobe in the word, because they're
(33:15):
not in the word and nobody evermentored them Like.
Thankfully, we are in a churchwhere that's not the case now
and a church that preaches theword and men know how to come
alongside you in that way, but Ithink I would say it is a good
desire to have your husband bein the word.
It is a desire that God has puton your heart, and if it is a
(33:36):
good desire that is from theLord, then he can do it.
So, one, be encouraged.
Two, like Jason said, pray.
The Holy Spirit can do anything.
Pray more than you nag, praymore than you speak, pray before
you speak and ask the HolySpirit to reveal to you what the
roadblocks are for your husband.
The word of God is his very life.
It is meant to be his dailybread.
If he is not in the word, he isnot getting life nor bread, and
(33:58):
your husband is starving.
And so, instead of coming athim as an attack out of
frustration, there should be aheart of tenderness, compassion,
concern and care that you.
You know what you want for himto be, and the reason you want
him to be in the word is becauseyou want him to know and love
God more.
That's the whole purpose ofreading the word of God.
And if he's not in the word, hedoes not yet understand who God
(34:20):
is and how worthy he is of thattime, because once you start to
understand that we've all seen,like those of us that are
abiding in this way, it's themain thing that you want to do.
It is your favorite part of theday to be in the word, and I
understand for you women thatare asking this question, that
is the desire that you have foryour husband.
I would come at you in love andsay are you in the word every
day?
And what's your motivation?
(34:40):
Not to be holy, not to show off, not to put on a show for your
husband, but to be in the word,steadfast, every day, no matter
what your husband is doing.
And if you are, then what'sgoing to happen is the
transformation, as God works inyou and through you, for your
husband to see somethingdifferent in you.
I would say that that'sprobably what happened with you
and I, like you've been in theword and you've read, but like
(35:02):
in terms of where you are nowand what God put on my heart,
calling me back and studying inthis way, like I think you've
probably seen moretransformation.
I had a lot of transformationthat needed to happen, and so I
think that your testimony andwitness to your husband as the
word of God transforms you to bemore patient, more kind, more
loving, to serve more, to showup more, to listen better.
(35:25):
You know.
Going back to even thecommunication piece, I was
thinking like one of the waysthat could potentially open the
door for you to have thisconversation more with your
husband about being in the wordis how you speak to him on other
occasions.
Are you cutting him down, areyou interrupting him, are you
disrespecting him, are youspeaking poorly about him to
other people in front of him orbehind his back, like those are
the sorts of things also thatreally can damage a conversation
(35:48):
.
Like, hey, can you?
You know, I want to be in theWord with you, so you know who
are you and what are you doing.
And how are you abiding in theWord of God?
Like I had to start with myself, like I'm not going to try to
be.
Like, though I want him to leadand though I want him to take
the baton with that and abidingin the Word, I am only able to
control my own decisions and myown behavior, and so I better at
(36:11):
least be myself seeking God inthat way, abiding in his word
myself.
And it's that idea of a womanwith a gentle and quiet spirit
can have such an I know that'sfor an unbelieving husband, but
that can truly have such animpact on your husband as he
watches you.
So I think that's what I wouldsay.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, I think you hit on a good reminder because I
think my response may have beena little bit less uplifting and
encouraging, but I think toremind everybody that God can do
far more abundantly thananything we can ask or imagine.
And even this morning in ourband of brothers one of the guys
was talking about restoringrelationships in his family, and
(36:51):
so we were looking at Joelwhere it talks about God can
restore the years that thelocusts have eaten and so
carrying those two things thatGod can do more than we can
imagine.
And then, even if it's been along time and you start to get
discouraged like are we wastingtime, you know, are we losing
time?
(37:11):
Will it ever happen?
And God can do it?
And then he can restore thattime, and even more abundantly
than it would have been before.
So I think remembering thosethings and not getting
discouraged and not giving up isI want to make sure that we
include that in my response also.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Wonderful.
Thank you for answering allthose questions.
Okay, and that's it for thisepisode.
If you know someone who wouldbe blessed by what you just
heard, please share the AbitablePodcast with them.
Keep spreading the word so wecan make much of the word.
Drop us a review, tell us whatyou love and what you're
learning.
Check out the link to learnmore about partnering with us by
(37:54):
buying us a coffee one time, byjoining our Women's Abitable
Plus membership community for$10 a month or by becoming a
monthly supporter.
In next week's episode, we willbe talking about abiding
together, which is sort of wherewe just landed this episode.
We're excited to be able to gomore in depth with you on what
it looks like for us, as amarried couple and as a family,
(38:15):
to do Bible study, prayer anddiscipleship together.
You guys have sent in somegreat questions and we can't
wait to answer them next week.
As always, remember you areable to abide in the Bible.
We'll see you next time.
Until then, let's abide.
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