#080 A Comparison of West Point and Annapolis: The Transformative Path of a Service Academy Education

Ever wondered what life is really like West Point or Annapolis? Join us as Captain Kelvin White, a proud West Point alum and Army Ranger, shares his unique experiences, from football fields to the battlefield. Kelvin opens up about his journey through military training and his upcoming career shift to pursuing an MBA at the University of Notre Dame, offering a rare glimpse into the transformative power of service academy education. 

Prepare to be amazed as we compare the rigorous yet distinct training programs of West Point and the Naval Academy. From weapons qualification and land navigation at Camp Buckner to sailing and seamanship in Annapolis, these institutions forge the leaders of tomorrow through their unique traditions. Personal anecdotes capture the raw shock of the initial training phase and the challenges of balancing academics, athletics, and military obligations.

But it's not all challenges and grit. Discover how the service academy network fosters lifelong connections and mentorship that shape careers and personal growth. Hear about the influential figures who've made an impact on Kelvin's journey, and learn how the network provides invaluable support and opportunities. This episode underscores the enduring bonds and leadership development that come from attending these storied academies, making it a must-listen for anyone curious about military life and leadership.

The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.

Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.

He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community with nationwide consulting and connection.

We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.

Connect with Grant on Linkedin
Academy Insider Website
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If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: [e-mail].

Episode Transcript

Grant Vermeer (00:00):
Welcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider
Podcast.
Academy Insider is a 501c3nonprofit organization that
serves midshipmen, futuremidshipmen and their families.
At its core, this podcast isdesigned to bring together a
community of Naval Academygraduates and those affiliated
with the United States NavalAcademy in order to tell stories
and provide a little bit ofinsight into what life at the

(00:22):
Naval Academy is really like.
I hope you enjoy it.
Thank you so much for listeningand reach out if you ever have
any questions.
Hey everyone, and welcome backto the Academy Insider Podcast.
In today's episode, I'm actuallyjoined by a West Point graduate
.
All right, don't come for me,but it is the Army-Navy game
coming up this Saturday and Iwanted to take the opportunity
to highlight some of thesimilarities and differences
between the midshipmanexperience in Annapolis and the

(00:43):
cadet experience up in WestPoint, new York.
It's a super fun episode.
We talk about some and sharesome funny stories about our
times as midshipmen and cadetsrespectively, but also then talk
about life in the fleet for theNavy, his time as an Army
Ranger after graduation, andthen we end the episode all
about just the power of theService Academy education at
large, right, whether you go toWest Point.
Whether you go to the NavalAcademy, whether you go to Air

(01:05):
Force Academy, coast Guard,merchant Marine, our experiences
are very similar.
There may be some things thatare different, but the
underlying core foundation ofwho we are as a result of our
educations at a service academyis very similar and, as a result
, we have those sharedexperiences.
We have those shared bonds thatlead us to create an incredible
network after graduation andinto life for the remainder of

(01:26):
our time, and so, if you'repotentially interested in a
service academy education, youneed to listen to this episode.
If you know someone who may beconsidering applying to the
Naval Academy, to West Point, toAir Force, whatever it is, send
them this episode.
I think this episode you'regoing to see is going to
highlight some of the incredibleaspects of being a Service
Academy educated individual, andso I hope you enjoy this.

(01:47):
Please, if you ever have anyquestions, let me know.
Otherwise, I hope you love thisepisode.
Thank you so much for stickingaround and being a part of the
Academy Insider audience.
Y'all are the best.
Thank you so much and enjoy thelisten.
The Academy Insider podcast issponsored by the Vermeer Group,

(02:07):
a residential real estatecompany that serves the United
States Naval Academy communityand other select clientele in
both California and Texas.
If I can ever answer a realestate related question for you
or connect you with a trustedAcademy affiliated agent in the
market which you're in, pleasereach out to me directly at
grant at the Vermeer groupcom.
You can also reach out to me onmy LinkedIn page, grant Vermeer

(02:29):
, and I'd be happy to respond toyou there.
Thank you so much, and nowlet's get back to the episode
All right.
Hey everyone, and welcome backto the podcast, my guy, thank
you so much for being here today.
We've had a lot ofconversations over the past
couple months, honestly,actually through the linkedin
world, which I think is prettyfunny.
So for us to get back togetherhere and actually record a
podcast here on army navygetting ready to release it, I

(02:51):
think this is super exciting.
So I'm gonna no mind backgrounda little bit of information
about who you are, where you'refrom, how you ended up at the
military academy at west point,what you did in the army and
kind of know what this nextstage in your life is going to
look like.

Kelvin White (03:07):
Well, grant, thank you again for you know inviting
me onto your platform.
As you know, like extremelyhumble and all the things that
you do are extremely engaging,and I'm just super thankful to
be here.
But my name is Captain KelvinWhite, born and raised in
Harrisburg, pennsylvania, asmall town in Enola, just across
the river, the SusquehannaRiver, in central Pennsylvania.

(03:28):
You know, two brothers grew upplaying sports all through my
life, probably similar to mostpeople, I didn't know what West
Point was until I was a seniorin high school and had the
opportunity to get recruited bythem to play football.
Lo and behold, here I am goingto the West Point Prep School.
The coolest part about it is Iwas the first class at West

(03:50):
Point to go to the prep school.
The other classes before mewere at Fort Monmouth and New
Jersey.
So I had the opportunity to gothere, went to West Point,
played on the football teamthere, a bunch of clubs, a bunch
of things.
Actually, after I graduated,graduated, I branched in the
infantry and I stayed at westpoint to be a graduate assistant
.
I was the tight ends coach andoffensive quality control coach.

(04:11):
So it was a phenomenalopportunity to just, you know,
be a second lieutenant be aroundmy teammates for another six
months.
You know, and I think it'sprobably a good place to say
it's the first time we beat Navyin 14 years, and every class
before me for the last 10 yearshas never beat Navy either.
But you know, when I was acoach, we were able to get it

(04:35):
done in 2016.
And then, following that, wentto Ranger School, airborne
School, and then I was stationedin Germany.
I was able to meet my wife.
I have two beautiful children,tatum and Kelvin we call them
Deuce and now I'm currently inthe 75th Ranger Regiment down
here in Fort Moore, georgia, andI'm actually transitioning out
of the military now.
You can probably see my face,but I am going to pursue my MBA

(04:58):
at the University of Notre DameMendoza College of Business,
where my wife will be the ArmyROTC instructor, the assistant
professor military science there, and we'll be there next fall.
So super, super exciting.
Can't wait to dive into thiswith you, grant.
It's going to be a blast.

Grant Vermeer (05:14):
Yeah, man, 100% Congratulations, right,
Congratulations on a verysuccessful life and career
through your time at West Point.
Right, like you're saying, ifwe just take a high-level look,
you know, zoom out and take alook at these 10 years of your
life, 10, 11 years of your life,right, it's like met your wife,
started a family, got a greateducation, got to play four

(05:35):
years of college football andthen come on and coach and get
back and stay a part of theprogram and then do a lot of
stuff in the Army right, likereal stuff and lead soldiers
right and take care of thoseindividuals who have raised
their right hand and supportedthe constitution of the United
States.
Man, like you've lived a veryfull, adventurous,

(05:57):
purpose-filled life for a goodlike 11 years straight, right,
and that's pretty darn sweet.

Kelvin White (06:03):
Yeah, I mean since I was 18.
So it's like it's all I know.
You know, it's almost half mylife.

Grant Vermeer (06:07):
So, yeah, no, I love it.
In today's episode again,obviously the highlighted theme
is that Service Academyeducation is an incredible once
in a lifetime opportunity.
But we're going to break downand go a little bit of West
Point versus Annapolis, Likethis is kind of the whole thing.
You know we're coming up on onAmerica's game.
There's all the pomp andcircumstance of these different
things.
But I want to take the time tokind of break down what some of

(06:29):
the similarities are, butespecially some of the
differences between, you know,being a midshipman at the Naval
Academy and being a cadet atWest Point.
And so we're going to start offwith obviously the most iconic
of all things, which is againour versions of the military
boot camp.
And so when you're a freshman atthe Naval Academy, you're known
as a plebe and you go throughplebe summer.

(06:49):
Is that the same terminologythat exists at West Point?
Or kind of what is your?
You know, when you go, are yougoing to plebe summer?
Do y'all have another name forit?
It's like, isn't it Beast?
Like you got the King of Beast,like the commander of it all.
Like how's that break out?

Kelvin White (07:04):
Yeah, so it's the same.
We have reception day or wecall ours our day, and that's
where you get like inculcatedfrom like civilian to like
military I guess for us it'sstudents and that's like the
thing that everybody sees.
You have 90 seconds to saygoodbye to your parents, so it's

(07:27):
like you didn't already justdrive up to West Point and spend
the night with them and likeknew that you're going to leave
the next day.
But we do call it BeastBarracks and it's about six
weeks.
They start in July and thenthey just go until, you know,
the school year starts.
So we have like reorgie weekafter that, but really it's just
trying to like break you in.
So it's a lot of people that areenlisted.
They have like their basictraining and the thing for West

(07:49):
Point is units from across theArmy come and train you.
So they're not technically likedrill sergeants, they're not
technically, you know drillinstructors, but they are
soldiers, instructors but theyare soldiers.
So you have E-5s, E-6s, E-7s,captains across the army,
whatever units there for thatsummer training, you know,

(08:10):
actually teaching you.

Grant Vermeer (08:16):
And are those like specific evolutions?
Because you still have like adetailed staff right, like you
have a cadre of cadets that'skind of doing day to day, but
those people you're talkingabout are kind of coming in for
specific evolutions and trainingevents or that how that's
working yeah.

Kelvin White (08:26):
So I mean just like the day-to-day stuff.
Right, you have, like, yourplatoon sergeant who's a cadet,
you're a platoon leader and then, like you know, as you already
mentioned, the cadre who areactually cadets and like
peer-led.
But when you're on the range,when you're doing like land nav
and all of those things that arelike army-ish, like, a civilian
normally wouldn't do.
It's led by an actual soldier,it's an actual officer.

(08:50):
So I think that part's prettycool and it's definitely
overlooked.

Grant Vermeer (08:54):
Yeah, and so just to put this in comparison right
, we have Kevin mentioned theyhave our day where you say
reception day, is that what youcalled it?
Yeah, for us it's I-Day,induction day, right, but same
idea, right, like that is theday for us.
It's kind of the iconic soundand event when, like you get
your last, we actually get likeafter.
So you start I-Day, like you gothrough processing, you get in

(09:15):
your uniform, you get your room,you start the process like
everything's going, and then,right before we have a massive
oath of office ceremony.
You get like 15 minutes withyour family before you go in,
but you're like in uniform atthat time, like you're fully
plebe ingrained and you get thatlast 15 minutes and then you do
the oath of office and then youmarch back in and then they

(09:37):
slam the Bancroft Hall like maindoors behind and honestly, like
they do a good job with it,because it sounds like a
resounding, like boom, likethrough the campus.
And then it's like, yeah, likeplebe summer's on right, like
plebe summer's on at that point,and you mentioned like going to
the range.
So I think this is where we'regoing to start talking about
some of the like comparisons ofthe two places.
Right like we go, we go shootonce.

(10:00):
Right like we go shoot onceduring plebe summer and qualify,
you know, pistol and rifle, butI'm assuming y'all shoot more
than once.
Like what's that breakdown fory'all of like actually going out
to the range and doing stufflike land navigation?
Because for us, like, we're notland navigating anything, we're
navigating the seas, baby getus, get us out.

Kelvin White (10:23):
Yeah, so I I mean's, as you mentioned, it has
been a little bit of like timesince I was up through like
through my hour day, but like wewould trans or we would get on
buses or we would get on youknow, lmtvs and we would go out
to a place called Camp Buckner,which is where all of our range

(10:43):
complexes are and all thosethings, and we'd stay out there
for a couple of days and that'swhere we would do like really
it's like a week long.
We do like machine guns, youknow, rifles, pistols, you get
to like drop mortar rounds andstuff like that.
And I just remember that beingprobably a week or maybe two
weeks and you got to do all ofthose things and like I mean it

(11:04):
is, it is like really reallycool, cause most of the time,
like I never shot a pistolbefore I got to West Point.
I never shot like a AR-15 or M4or anything like that.
I've shot like a little 22caliber or something.
But that's the first time youget to do stuff like that and
it's like very impactful.
But we go back to Camp Buckner,like I guess it's our yuck year

(11:25):
or sophomore year.
So after a few years over.
Then we go back to Camp Bucknerand it's called cadet field
training and that's just likeanother evolution of Beast
Barracks.
But like now, you're already inthe Corps, you have some
experience, you have some stufflike that.
But yeah, we shoot a lot.

Grant Vermeer (11:42):
Yeah, that's pretty sweet and you say you do
stuff like land navigation.
Are there other from yourmemory like other iconic like
army things that happen duringbeast barracks?
Because again, for us, rightlike quite literally, we have a
sailing curriculum, right likewe actually go out, we get on
sailboats, we like learnnavigation, we learn nautical
stuff, we take seaman,seamanship and navigation

(12:03):
courses, right like those thingsare very like navy specific on
our end as like anindoctrination into the naval
academy I think so, if you'veever been to west point or any
anybody who has ever traveledthere.

Kelvin White (12:17):
When you're coming in through 9w, like from monroe
, and like if you've never been,like you'll understand when you
go there.
But you're driving on like thislong stretch of road, like
feels like you're in the middleof the woods, which you are, but
you look up on the left handside as as you pass camp natural
bridge and camp buckner andyou'll see like a big, like

(12:38):
ranger scroll and you'll seelike a sapper tab now probably,
and it's like this big rock faceand you actually rappel down it
and you climb up it, um, and Ithink those are kind of the two
things I remember, because Idrive by that thing all the time
and I always remember climbingup that rock or rappelling down
that rock.

Grant Vermeer (12:55):
So those are pretty good experience,
definitely, but it is, it ishard, you're right for sure yeah
, no 100, which which is kind ofgoing to lead us to hopefully
maybe down some of thesimilarities here in this
experience.
I'm going to turn it over toyou, which is at any point
during Beast Barracks or likeduring your R day, did you have
the like what did I just getmyself into moment, Like the
moment where you're like yotraining, time out training time

(13:19):
out.
Like I wasn't no hold on.
Like I wasn't expecting this.

Kelvin White (13:24):
Well, I think for me.
I was a prepster and we canlike go back a little bit too,
and just like I know that you'rea direct admit, you know you're
much smarter than me, grant.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
I took the four year path, baby, yeah, four year path
, come on.

Kelvin White (13:41):
It's an extra lap for some of us out there, but I
think that experience so likethe cadet candidate basic
training which was, you know,the pre-beast my first year out
of high school, that was when Ihad like the oh no, what am I
doing?
Like that was like.
And that one's a little bitshorter too.
That's probably three weekslong, but I mean when I got into
West Point I had already beenhome or away from home for a

(14:03):
year.
I've already been home or awayfrom home for a year.
I've already been likeinculcated into like customs
courtesies and like the militaryaspect of that.
So like when I got to BeastBarracks I was way more
comfortable.
But for me that time, like whenI was a prepster man I'll tell
you what that was probably daytwo of like not sleeping, just

(14:23):
like writing it at nighttime,like I never even wrote letters
before.

Grant Vermeer (14:27):
Yeah, you quickly turned like life's back in the
1700, man.
You said a candlelight writingthe letters back home.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Like what's going on?

Kelvin White (14:35):
It's crazy, oh my God.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah.

Grant Vermeer (14:40):
No, I mean spot on right, like what's funny for
me is like when I showed up in,like I was saying I came in
direct, right, I mean spot onright, like what's funny for me
is like when I showed up in,like how am I saying I came in
direct?
Right, I was direct from highschool admission, so I was
showing up 18 years old and Igot smacked in the face Like the
first time.
I got yelled at right, like Iwas just like in shock, right,
because I'm just, like you know,making my way down we call it
the P-ways, like the hallways inBancroft Hall, and I'm getting

(15:02):
yelled at by a detailer likewhat are you doing?
Hit a bullcat, all this stuff.
And I have no idea what's goingon, because no one teaches you
this stuff, it just happens.
And you've got to learn andfigure it out.
And so I just remember one ofmy roommates was a Napster, so
the Naval Academy has a prepschool as well, and dude, the
prep school people who werepreviously midshipman cadets or

(15:26):
like you're saying, uh, um, youknow, whatever, whatever y'all
call it on the west point sideyeah like the biggest saving
graces during they're in uh,barracks, beast or plebe summer.
Right, like, because they havethat slight experience, they
have that knowledge and it's notthe initial shock, right like
they are like some of the guidesand leaders through that
process for, like the plea class.
Because, man, I'll tell youwhat, like I went to my it was

(15:48):
Amari Ross Amari Ross, my God tothis day, love him and Jared
Hackmeister, and I was like Iwas like fellas, I was like I
need some help.
I was like I don't know what'sgoing on, but like I need some
help.
And yeah, man, it's just, it iscrazy, but you have that little
bit of experience.
And I think everybody at onepoint in time, whether it
happens at the prep school,whether it happens, you know,

(16:08):
actually at West Point or theNaval Academy, has that moment
of like shock, of like oh my, oh, my gosh.
And as much as you prepare, asmuch as you understand what's
going on and know, like themoment it actually happens, and
you have that like like the realfeeling of being there, like
everyone's going to have alittle bit of it, right, like a
slight feeling and a slightwelcome to the experience, for

(16:29):
sure, and so so yeah, that'skind of a rundown and again of I
would say like that, that firstsummer period and the emotion
associated.
Now we're going to transition alittle bit into the like actual
academic life.
What was, what was theexperience for you to transition
and obviously you had the prepyear as well to kind of prepare
for some of the academic stuffbut what was the experience of

(16:51):
turning into the academic worldat West Point and what was the
experience like as a cadet goingto school at West Point?
How does the military trainingadjust or, you know, shift in
its intensity versus theacademic and sports like time
commitments you have?

Kelvin White (17:07):
Yeah, great, and I think I would be, you know,
remiss if I did not say thedisclaimer of.
You know, everybody'sexperience may vary, but for me
I was a football player, so Iwas core squad and we got pulled
out of Beast Barracks I think aweek early before, like the
March back, and this was backwith Coach Ellerson.
So we currently have CoachMunkin.

(17:27):
Now he's been there for 11years.
This was a different head coachand we had to go through
reorder week, we had to gothrough practices, we had to go
through camp and I think whatreally was my saving grace and
you've already mentioned it waslike I went to prep school.
So like the academic year for me, at least the first semester
was all what I took at prepschool, and I don't know if they

(17:48):
do that anymore, but I'mtalking like down to the same
books.
So I had all the books from theyear before, I did all the
study and I did all that stuff.
But we have STAP, which is likeyou just take a class in the
summer, essentially we call itSTAP, and so I did actually did
the chemistry course after prepschool.
So then I walked into class andlike that was my saving grace,

(18:11):
like I think I ended thatsemester with like a, you know
three over three point GPA andlike, as as everything like the,
the years went by, like my GPAjust like started to trend down
a little bit.
But it started high.
That was my grace, dude,because, like, as we got a new
coach and we got all thesedifferent things happening and

(18:32):
you get a little bit moreresponsibility and all these
things happen, like there'sreally you don't have the time
of the day to like make sureeverything else is perfect, so
things start slipping.
Make sure everything else isperfect, so things start
slipping.
And I think that's probably theone thing that we all, all the
service academies do well isthey overload us for sure.
And when you're overloaded, youhave to be able to prioritize

(18:55):
things.
And then you start doingopportunity costs and you're
like, well, I'm just not goingto do that paper and I'm not
going to do this, and it justgives you that decision-making
ability, which is super, supergreat.
I know everybody thinks they'regreat time managers, but it's
really about the prioritization.
But for me that first semesterwas great, dude, just because of
the prep.
The prep here, yeah, but afterthat dude, that headstart that I

(19:19):
had was evaporated.

Grant Vermeer (19:23):
Yeah, people started catching you real quick,
yeah, when you talk about, Ithought I think it's a really
good point that you brought up,which is that there is a, there
is a purposeful overload of likethings that you could hate,
like any normal person couldhandle, right.
And so what were those things?
At West Point, if you remember,like I just did an episode here
on Academy Insider for theNaval Academy, specific talking

(19:45):
about what we call professionalknowledge, which, like every
week there was you know, back inmy time it was every week.
Now the test is every otherweek for the plebes, but it's
like this perp or like anotherbook, right, where we have to
learn professional knowledgeabout the Navy.
It starts with kind of thecustoms and courtesies and
history and tradition of theNaval Academy, makes its way up
through you know, a servicewarfare chapter learning about

(20:07):
you know ships, and then makingits way and learning about
submarines, et cetera, andthat's all.
In addition, to right youractual academic course load in
your sports or whatever the caseis, we have these things called
signature sheets, where youhave to go and meet and learn
the name of every singleupperclassman in your company,
in your unit, and get them tosign like a signature sheet.
You have to create all theseposter boards for everyone who

(20:28):
has like a leadership billet inthe company spaces, like there
are a lot of things that go onthat the plebs are responsible
for.
Do y'all have something similarto that at West Point that you
kind of remember of just theseadditional time obligations that
are put on plebs, that theyhave to get done?

Kelvin White (20:42):
Yeah, and I think that book that you're referring
to we just said like the book ofknowledge, the book we did that
in the summertime and like Ithink now it's probably like
mainstream, like the bugle noteshas like the same information,
a whole bunch of things you haveto memorize.
but we did most of that stuff inin the summertime.
But, to your point, I you knowfreshmen had to do like duties

(21:04):
and responsibilities, so wecalled minutes.
It's just like one of thethings that will never, never,
ever leave my like my brain.
It lives rent free.
Just like you know, whensomebody tells me what's for
lunch, I immediately jump into,like you know, calling minutes
and um, but we do that.
We do, like you know, take outupperclassmen's trash.
You do, like you pick up their,their laundry, you drop off

(21:24):
their laundry and then when itcomes back, you, you know, you,
you do divvy it out toupperclassmen.
We all were assigned a teamleader, so like a yuck who was
like in, like we are theirdirect report and they like
looked out for us forcounseling's, like physical
stuff, academic stuff, and thenlike throughout the halls, like
you have to walk with your handscut, you have to like rub your

(21:46):
shoulder on the wall and whenyou're outside you can't talk
and all of those things, butlike you could be quizzed on any
information that was in thebook, like the book of knowledge
from from upperclassmen, andusually that's at lunchtime,
like when we're all sittingaround at lunch, you know in the
mess hall and like you're outthere and you're just like
standing there waiting to eatand like an upperclassman just

(22:06):
starts like quizzing you andstuff and that's really like
where that comes in.
But again, I would just say allexperiences may vary.
Because I was on the footballteam, I was actually granted
authorization to miss some ofthat stuff and, based on my
timeline, when I was in schoolat my freshman year, we
practiced in the morning, so Iwasn't at breakfast with the
core, I wasn't doing that stuff,I was just like practice class,

(22:28):
back to practice.
So that was like my experience.

Grant Vermeer (22:32):
but yeah, like plebes are definitely overloaded
, for sure yeah, 100, I, I likeand I'm going to double down on
what you said about everyone'sexperience may vary and I think
that's really specific, likereally, uh, a good point,
especially when it comes to theacademic year, because I think
kind of maybe one of the thingsthat may be consistent is that
at one point in time during yourtime at the Naval Academy or at

(22:55):
West Point, you are going tostruggle.
It's going to be extremely hard.
That is the consistency.
But where you struggle maychange based on your experience,
your personality type.
Whatever the case is right.
Like for a lot of people, thatstruggle may come from the
academic year, right, thetransition to the academic year
may be extremely difficult forthem, right, and like getting

(23:16):
used to the classes and all theworkload, et cetera.
For me that was like a reprieve, like I lucked out, knock on
wood.
Like I was good at school,right, so like getting into the
classroom, classroom, like feltthat that was a more comfortable
environment for me rather thanplebe summer.
Like plebe summer to me like Iwas a homesick 18 year old kid,
right, like never had adversityonce in my life.
Right, I was like yo, what.

(23:37):
Like what is happening?
right and so I hate, like Ihated plebe summer, but then the
academic year for me, like itbecame a little bit more sense,
comfort, whereas I had plenty offriends who plebe summer to
them was like an adventure, likethey let, they were like they
let yeah it's hard, like it'sreally hard, but like I like I'm
having a good time.
And then when they got to theacademic year, they were like yo

(23:57):
, this sucks Right.
And so you know they're likeyou're saying, experiences may
vary drastically on what thingsare the like, the actual
pressure point that cause you tohit that point of struggle
Right.
And so you know, I think thatpiece is, I think that piece is
really interesting.

Kelvin White (24:15):
And then I'll add something to grant to about that
, right?
So like you are the guy who'ssuper smart, you're super
intelligent, you're verycomfortable in the classroom.
Guys like that like for me, forinstance, like when I was at
prep school, like that, like forme is, for instance, like when
I was at prep school, like thatsummer stuff was easy for me.
So all these kids that are likenot eagle scouts in high school
or like that missed home andstuff like I would carry extra

(24:37):
stuff on my back when we weredoing ruck marches, and then
that same person that I spentsix weeks with in the summertime
, you know is the valedictorianof his school, is, like you know
, the super, super smart guy.
So when I'm struggling inchemistry, I go, I talk to him
and you know, and you, you'relike bonded I don't want to call
it trauma bonding, but it'svery, very similar to that

(24:57):
because you just like you'realways there for each other,
right, we're all here for thesame purpose, like trying to be
the best versions of ourselvesand, you know, support and
defend the constitution of theUnited States of America.
And I think that stuff rightthere, like the bonds that you
build and like plead summertraining or, you know, be
spirits for us, like that thingtakes you through the year.

(25:19):
So that guy that I was likegiving my food to cause I wasn't
hungry, you know he's helpingme and I'm work citing him like
hey, you know.
Assistance given to the authorAssistance given to you.

Grant Vermeer (25:30):
Yeah, yeah, give him a little credit.
Put him in the footnotes.
Put him in the footnotes.

Kelvin White (25:34):
Talk about it, dude.

Grant Vermeer (25:35):
Yeah, no, look, you're spot on with that.
And I think, again, when we talkabout what makes Service
Academy so special, is they showyou the importance of being an
elite team player, right, likeyou have to be incredible at
being a part of a team.
There's no more like individual,like individualism from a from
an ego standpoint, Right.
And so I think that piece isreally interesting, like you're

(25:58):
saying, because some people aregoing to have one strength and
other people are going to haveothers, and that means one
person may excel at one portionof their time at the academy and
struggle in others, and viceversa, and y'all are going to
have to build thoserelationships and help each
other out when you have arrivedat the point where you are
struggling, right.
And so I think that piece isreally interesting because,
again, you just got to know yourrole, embrace your role and

(26:20):
then excel in your role, likewhat you are good at is the
school stuff, like you said.
Then be ready to actually helppeople when they're not as good
at what you are, because you'regoing to have a point in time
where, like you, are strugglingin something significantly and
you're going to need the personthat you may have been helping

(26:41):
in one realm is going to be theperson that is going to help you
in the next.

Kelvin White (26:44):
Exactly.

Grant Vermeer (26:44):
And so.
But that comes, like you'resaying, from.
We'll redact just from thebonding just from the bonding of
the experiences, like throughthe summer, right, and so, again
, that piece is reallyinteresting and it's important.
I'm glad you touched on thatright Because, again, it's just,
people may think it's aclassroom experience of like

(27:05):
this teaching, of leadership,but I think, more than anything,
it's these experiences and,quite literally, the humanness
of all of us and the humanconnection and like, quite
literally, the tribalism andreality of like there are things
that I'm good at and there arethings I'm not good at, and I
need to rely on the peoplearound me to help me in the
stuff that I'm not good at and Ineed to have the humility and
like put in the extra effort tohelp the other people with the

(27:28):
stuff that I am good at, right,and so, you know, kind of
finding that balance is isreally important and really cool
.
So I appreciate you bringingthat up.
I do want to transition alittle bit again, as we talk
about some of the cool andunique intricacies of West Point
versus Navy, is summer training, because I think this is one of
the coolest pieces of theservice academies in general.
Are these summer trainingblocks?

(27:49):
For the Naval Academy, we havethree blocks, right, so you have
again three, basicallyone-month periods to do summer
training.
The standard procedure would beto have two military-type
trainings during, you know, twoof those blocks and then get a
leave period where you can gohome or travel or whatever the
case is during that time.
For us, our summer trainingexperiences are you go on a ship

(28:10):
, you go on a submarine, right,like you can.
You have this thing calledpro-trimmed professional
training for midshipmen, whereyou spend a week with each of
the different communities so youcan get a taste of all the
things.
You go with an aviationsquadron, you get underway on a
submarine, you go on a ship, youspend a week with the Marine
Corps, right, and so all thosedifferent aspects that you get a
sense of.
What was that like at WestPoint?

(28:31):
What was your summer traininglike?
What units are you going with,what cool things can you do and
how is that experience for you?

Kelvin White (28:38):
Yeah, I think the same thing that you guys have,
we have very similar.
So we have blocks of trainingin the summer, every summer, and
then some of them are usuallylike, uh, normalized, so like
every freshman.
So after the end of yourfreshman year you go to cadet
field training or cft, andthat's like two blocks, so

(28:58):
that's like you know, all summeralmost, and then you have the
ability to do like an iad andI'm I can't I don't know what
that means at the time because Iwas never fortunate enough to
do them an IAD and I can't, Idon't know what that means at
the time because I was neverfortunate enough to do them.
But like you have military ones, you have academic ones and
then you also have the abilityfor leave.
So I think West Point just doessuch a phenomenal job of

(29:18):
finding opportunities for guysor cadets to do things all over
the world.
I mean they travelinternationally, they can go do,
like you know, courses atOxford, I'm pretty sure, and
like you know, they can doSandhurst and they, you know, I
had friends who went to Francefor the summer to do like an
exchange and that's not likereally exchange student for the
semester, which they do offer aswell.

(29:39):
It's just like this IAD, whichis, like you know, three to four
weeks long of training andthings like that.
So I mean, those are I can'teven name all the ones, but I
just know that, like, if you can, if you think about doing it,
if you think about doing aninternship, you know you have
that ability at West Point forthose blocks in the summer.
So after your freshman year youdo cadet field training.

(30:00):
After your sophomore year, likegoing into your junior year,
you do what's called CTLT, whichis exactly what you mentioned
already about going andshadowing people.
We go out to army units andthat's every army unit.
You can go aviation rangers,peas, you can do literally
anything that you want specialforces, and you get to like just

(30:21):
shadow officers that do the jobthat you're going to eventually
do.
And then I want to say, thelast summer you have to do like
a leadership, which is, like youknow, beast barracks, like
cadre or something like that.
So it's usually between yourjunior and senior year you break
that up and then you have to dothat.
But again, if we're going tospeak from experiences, for me I

(30:45):
didn't get to do any militarytraining, so I didn't get to do
any military training.
So I didn't get to do the airassault schools, the airborne
schools, the cool like whooschools when I was a cadet,
because I was like playingfootball.
So I mentioned staff alreadythat's where you like take a
class to minimize the loadduring the semester.
So I want to say for everysummer I did at least one or two
steps which you know again,like if you took 21 credit hours

(31:08):
during the semester yoursophomore year, I took 17 or
something like that.
So just like allowed me alittle bit more time to give
back to the football program.
So I didn't really again, Ididn't get to do like the cool
opportunities.
I did do CTLT.
I went to the 82nd AirborneDivision, 2325 White Falcon, and
you know I was able to like seethem they had Kiowas back then

(31:29):
and that was really theexperience that made me branch
infantry, because I was likedoing situational training
exercise with that platoonleader there and it was force on
force.
It was just such a coolopportunity.
No-transcript 100%.

Grant Vermeer (32:02):
It's a really actually interesting thing to
touch on right now, which is theexperience between a varsity
athlete and the experiencebetween someone who does not
play a varsity sport at theacademies can vary your
experience right, and again youmay hear a lot of opinions about
one way or another, what'seasier or better or whatever it
is.
Look, it's just different.

(32:23):
It's just a little bitdifferent right, and so you know
, I had the same experiencewhere I would do one summer
training block and in thatsecond block we always had
summer school and we practicedright, because I was a varsity
basketball player, I playedbasketball all four years and so
, while I had friends who were,like you're saying, going for a
month to estonia to be a part of, like, the un cyber conference,
right, and all these differentthings, like I was in annapolis

(32:46):
taking seamanship and navigationand practicing basketball Right
, and so, like, again, there areall these different things
where there's there's always agive and take.
Much like everything in life,there is always a trade-off.
And when you choose to investyour time into one thing, that
may the trade-off may be a lackof opportunity on the other end.
Right, but at the same time,when it came to the academic
year, yeah, there was.

(33:06):
There was some stuff likemilitary obligations that we
were, you know, we didn't haveto do march on for the parade.
We didn't have to do paradesbecause we were practicing and
we were playing, right.
And so, you know, there aretrade-offs to the experience.
But there again, there's beautyin both experiences and there's
leadership development in bothexperiences.
And there is, like, all thesedifferent aspects Cause, for me,

(33:27):
my main mentors that I had atthe Academy were usually the
officer representatives of thebasketball team, relationships
that I likely would not have hadif it weren't for basketball
Right, and so like, while otherpeople may have found their
mentors and some of their summertrainings or other clubs, like
I just found mine throughbasketball Right, and so you
know, it's it's, it's cool, it'sinteresting, right Like there

(33:49):
are a lot of different pathwaysin a variety of experience that
you can have while a midshipmanor while a cadet, but at the end
of the day, I think what isextremely cool and I'll be, you
know, calvin, I pass it to youhere in just a sec to touch on
this is like what makes theseplaces so special is the density
of wisdom and leadershipexperience that is on campus or

(34:10):
for us on the yard, right Likewhat?
No matter what you're doing,there is somebody there who is
going to look like you relate toyou, someone that you want to
emulate, right Like there'sgoing to be someone that you
relate to, that you kind of vibewith, and you're like that is
someone I want to try and belike, that is someone I want to
learn from, and that's someonethat who's like, who is going to

(34:30):
be my mentor, like a personalmentor, right.
And so I think that piece isreally cool and I had the
investment of a lot of amazingpeople in my life that helped
with my development as a youngman and as a leader, right.
And so what was that experiencefor you at West Point, kind of,
how did you navigate, buildingsome relationships with some of
the staff or some of theofficers or even some of the
senior enlisted.
That kind of helped in yourprogression and development as a

(34:53):
young man going through WestPoint.

Kelvin White (34:55):
Yeah, grant, that's a phenomenal, and I think
life is a contact sport, right?
So as we continue to movethrough life, the more people
you know and the more people youconnect with, usually the
better off you're going to be.
And I think, just like thefirst person I ever met at West
Point when I went there his namewas then was Major Adisa King,
ex football player.
I think he was on the last teamto beat Navy, but he was the

(35:18):
guy who did, like, theadmissions for the football team
and he was like crazy,charismatic, bald head, loud,
obnoxiousious, and he was aninfantryman and without, like
you know, being disrespectful,there's in the army, there's the
infantry and then there'sinfantry support.
So you're, you know what I'msaying.
So, but I wanted to be like adecent king.

(35:40):
He ended up leaving, we got anew coach and then he he
continued to do crazy, crazythings throughout the Army.
Now he is a brigade commanderin Hawaii.
He's in 325.
Any Army listeners out there,colonel Adisa King, he's the man
and I text him, I talk to him,we're very close.
But all of the things that Ihad pent up in me like do I want

(36:02):
to do this?
Do I want to make the Army acareer I want to like.
Am I going to be able to dothis?
Am I capable, blah, blah.
He was the guy that I wouldjust text like my big brother
and I was a cadet.
Then he was a major, like Ibecame like a battalion
commander and stuff like that.
So we had, like a couple yearsremoved, but just like that
human connection that you youmentioned before, like he cares

(36:24):
about the people that comesafter him and he wants to make
sure, like the ranks are like ingood standing and good hands.
So all the times when I waslike hey, I'm just unsure, what
do you think about this?
Like his authentic feedback waslike definitely the thing that
kept me like on a straight andnarrow.
And then, ultimately, like Ijust wanted to like make him
proud because I came to WestPoint not knowing what it was

(36:50):
and then I stayed because of,like the incredible people and
opportunities.
Now, like 10 years later, I'mgetting out of the army now, but
it's still like that's a, it'sa lifetime.
We talked about this in thebeginning and Adisa King was my
guy.
He was the guy who, like hadthe most impact on me when I was
a cadet.
But to echo what what you said,again, the people that you meet
you just never know right, andI'll just do a quick anecdote

(37:11):
here.
My boxing instructor's name wasWill Kobe and he's from central
Pennsylvania, graduated fromTrinity High School, went to
Villanova and he became myboxing instructor at West Point.
After his time there he went tothe 75th Ranger Regiment.
He's one of one.
This guy is like one of the bestofficers I've ever met.
He is now the PMS at Notre Dame.

(37:32):
My wife's going to go work forhim and it's all because I sent
him a text.
I said hey, sir, you still atNotre Dame, yep.
Then all of a sudden, like nowme and him talk all the time.
I'm going to still be able tolike help out the program there
when I'm there, like I'm notgoing to forget all the things I
learned or the experiences I'vehad.
So you know, when I'm a I haveI'll probably have a little bit

(37:55):
more facial hair when I'm a, youknow, a student at Notre Dame.
But it is that impact that youjust never.
You never know that like you'regoing to run into Will Coby
again and he's going to giveyour wife a job at the next

(38:21):
place and just like you can'tyou can never burn a bridge.
You got to always justunderstand that like connection,
connection, connection andlife's a contact sport and
you'll be good.
But you know, thanks forletting me throw that in there,
grant.

Grant Vermeer (38:28):
No, a hundred percent.
Thank you, right.
Thank you for sharing thatCause.
I think highlighting the verypersonal stories and anecdotes
just highlights this aspect ofwhat we're talking about.
Right, and that's that's what Iwant to jump into here now,
because it's not just West Point, it's not just the Naval
Academy when you get out of thefleet and I know this is funny
because we're getting ready forthe Army Navy game and you know,

(38:49):
one day out of the year we'reready, hey, we're ready for war,
right.
We're ready to go at each otherand we're worst enemies.
But that network that you'retalking about, that is a service
academy network, right?
No-transcript on to like likekevin, like you were saying,

(39:27):
like generating theseconnections, building these
relationships.
But what it does do is like Iknow that if I'm reaching out to
someone and they have thisshared background, this common
experience, I will get 15minutes with them.
They will take the time to talkto us, right, and so you know
you have an ability to likebuild these relationships, build

(39:49):
these connections, and there'salways going to be people who
are willing to listen to you andhelp you If you like, if you
have the proactivity to reachout and ask for help which is a
big lesson from your time at theservice academies, right Is
having the humility to to askfor help, and if you show that
you have the humility and thehunger to like want to learn,
grow and develop and like knowthat you don't have all the

(40:10):
answers and you're looking forhelp, like, they're going to be
people there who are going tohelp you.
Service Academy agnostic, right.
And so you know.
I just want to turn it back toyou to see, in your experience
now, how you've seen, obviouslythose ones were from your time
specifically at West Point.
But I just want to give you anopportunity, for you as well, to
kind of talk about andhighlight the Service Academy

(40:31):
network, what it means to youand what you would just offer
about, like the benefits of whatthat even means.

Kelvin White (40:39):
Great, you hit on it perfectly.
People will give you their time.
People will give you, like that, 15 minutes of doing things,
just because we are veryfamiliar with the rigor, the
things that we had to endure andexperience, and that shared
understanding of like thisperson is capable of
withstanding and solvingproblems and doing things the

(41:03):
right way.
Right, because, like a cadetwill not lie, cheat, steal or
tolerate those who do, and likeyou can remove cadet with
anybody, especially like in theservice academies.
We all have honor codes, we allhave all of those things and
like, just the little tinytrinkets of like have all of
those things and like, just thelittle tiny trinkets of like

(41:23):
experiences that we all had.
You mentioned, like, closingthe doors at Bancroft.
Like I'm telling you thatprobably everybody who's been to
Annapolis is probably like thatremembers that feeling right if
I ask anybody, yeah, theshivers like that thing slams.

Grant Vermeer (41:33):
Oh, it's all on.
But if you ask, anybody at WestPoint.

Kelvin White (41:36):
You know, like, how many lights are in Cullum
Hall, like they'll tell you, orhow's the cow, like they'll tell
you, because, like, those arejust like weird isms, that like
West Point does, but like youimmediately build a connection
with somebody.
All those things, I think, justtrying to live up to that, like

(41:59):
the honor code, live up to youknow, choosing the harder right
over the easier, wrong, and allof the things that were
instilled in me as a cadet atWest Point, and just like making
those into, like who I am.
Because, again, it's, we allhave identities, we all have
different things.
I mean that we do, but like Iam from West Point but like,
like I am not a West Pointfootball player anymore you know

(42:19):
what I'm saying Like that usedto be an identity, but I always
have that.
You know, the West Pointidentifier, still right, and
just as long as you just do theright thing and you just like
continuously, like, live up tothose values, it's just like a,
it's a great opportunity.
And like, for me, I, me, I lovegoing back.
I have classmates now that areback at school and I'm the type

(42:42):
of dude that's like, hey, if Ican do anything for you.
Let me know, and for everybodyout there who's listening to
this if somebody says that toyou, you have to cash that check
.

Grant Vermeer (42:52):
Cash that check.

Kelvin White (42:53):
You have to cash that check because I'm telling
you what man.
There's been many times wheresomeone's like let me know if I
can do anything, and like if yousay that to me, I'm going to
send you the text.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
I'm going to follow up.
I'll send you a message onMonday.

Kelvin White (43:05):
Yeah, you'll get an email and the thing is it's
not malicious.
I'm not trying to takeadvantage of anything, but the
fact that people are inpositions to help or people are
in positions to advocate for youor sponsor you, that is the
whole.
This is what we're talkingabout.
This is the service academy,like as a whole.
They've already been there andI mean, and you can go anywhere

(43:26):
If you want to stay in themilitary and service you have,
you know one star, two star,three star generals that are
like from West Point.
Or you know admirals who arefrom Annapolis who are like, oh
yeah, like this guy, like I'llhelp him out, but then you like
transition into the privatesector, like that's what I'm
doing now, right, like I'mtrying to find somebody who's
like oh yeah, like Kelvin is agreat guy.

(43:48):
And then it just bleedseverywhere because the fact that
you finished those four yearsat Annapolis, at West Point, at
the Air Force Academy, likeproves that you are capable,
proves that you have the basicfoundation of just like being a
good person and doing like agood job.

Grant Vermeer (44:06):
So yeah, 100%.
I shamelessly.
I'm a big Ted Lasso fan Ipromise this will make sense in
just a minute, but but, like one, one of the main, one of the
main lessons in like one of theepisodes of the shows they talk
about is like the most selfishthing you can do is not ask for
that help.
Right, and I was like it was aninteresting perspective because

(44:28):
they're like, if you ask forhelp, you are giving someone the
opportunity to be that, thatsource of, of support and help
to you.
Right, and like for me, rightwhen I go out there, and like
you're saying, when I go and Italk to some like midshipmen or
younger grads or whoever it is,or even older grads who come in
and ask for connections oradvice, right, like when I say,
let me know what I can do tohelp, I mean it because I want

(44:50):
you to give me the opportunityto like genuinely make a
positive impact in your life.
Right, and if you don't ask forit, like I'm never going to
have the ability to do it, andyou may be thinking like, oh, I
don't want to, I don't want toask, it's a burden.
Like it's not a burden and Ithink that's the beautiful thing
of this community that we're apart of is that these
institutions have instilled inus, truly, this virtue of

(45:11):
service.
Right, it's not just yourmilitary service, your service
to nation is the only type ofservice.
No, like, we've been ingrainedwith the sense of service to
like, do things for thebetterment of the men and women
around us.
Right, and it's like I want tolive a life where, like, I'm
doing things to make your lifebetter if I have the possibility
to, right, and so you know,again, it's.
It's this really cool aspect,like you're saying, when we come

(45:35):
to the network, it's like thereis a community of people who
have this shared virtue ofservice, who want to do what
they can to get back and makeyour life better and to help you
out, however they can.
Right, you just got to, but yougot to ask for it.
You got to, you got to cashthat check.
You got to like, again, you putin all that work, you made all
those deposits at the bank, withthose four years going through

(45:55):
plebe year, yuck year, for usit's youngster year right, like
all that stuff have built thatconnection where you have the
ability to go and cash thatcheck and you need to be
selfless enough and I know itfeels weird, but you need to be
selfless enough to ask for thathelp and cash that check Right,
and so I think that piece isreally, again, it's just really
interesting.
It's just really interesting.
You mentioned transitioningback this to you as we go

(46:17):
through.
It was like there were a lot ofthings that set the foundation
for who you are today from yourtime at West Point.
What are some of those mainthings that you remember back?

Kelvin White (46:36):
Are there any main experiences or lessons that you
learned that have set thefoundation and the cornerstones
of who you are today, at like atyour core?
Yeah, and I think you alreadyhit on it a little bit Just, I
was a varsity football player.
I went through a coachingchange and I really think, like
Jeff Monk and everybody likelaughs at me because he's, like
you know, arguably coach of theyear this year, doing a really,
really good job.
He's like one of the onlycoaches that has like a tenure
of 11 years or more at the same,the same place, and I really do

(47:00):
think you know the conversationthat and I'd like laugh when
you said this experiences dovary, right.
So like I was a core squadfootball player, and then
there's also like thevaledictorian who just came
direct, who doesn't have any anathletic bone in their body,
right.
So like we're like completelyon opposite ends of the spectrum
but like because of the, thecamaraderie, and like living

(47:21):
together in the core, like weall receive leadership in
different ways.
So I think that I learned mostof my leadership skills and
abilities and grit andperseverance like inside the
white lines and Mikey stadium,probably like a hundred percent

(47:42):
of them, and I and I and I'mlike comfortable saying that
right, because, like all of thethings that you would learn in a
classroom or you would learn inlike an MS 400 class or MX 400
officership, like we get to dopractical exercises of that, how
are you, how are you going torespond when things are bad?
You know what happens when youget a holding penalty and you
just cost your team 10 yards,what happens when, like, you

(48:04):
miss a blocking assignment.
You know, and the quarterbackgets blindsided.
What happened.
Like all of these things areadversity that I've got to
experience before I got out intothe force and like it is weird
because, like I, we got to playon TV, we got to do all these
things and like everybodythought we like were better than
we were.
I won 11 games in four years.

(48:25):
So, like, obviously it's notthat I just thought I was better
than everybody because we werewinning, and it's not even that.
Like you think that you'rebetter, but you have experience
that is different, that it'sdifferent.
So, like your, your level oftolerance for to do things when
you know bad things happen oryou know shit goes wrong is just

(48:46):
like you, you now have likeexperience.
You felt that and because ofthat I'll never, ever forget
this.
We have mattress at West point.
Coach Moken comes in, we'redoing up downs and we're doing
Blair crawls in like negativefour degree weather, like dudes
get frostbite, all this stuff.
Things have changed now but mypoint is that was the hardest
thing I've ever done in my life.

(49:07):
So no matter what I do I'm 31years old, I've been to ranger
school, I've deployed, I've doneall like none of that stuff
compares.
Like you can ask anybody frommy generation like oh yeah, matt
, drill is the hardest thing todo, but but again, like honestly
, I have that experience on thefootball field but like to loop

(49:29):
this whole thing back together.
Those people that don't havelike the athletic bones in their
body, who are like crazy smart.
I can tell them how to set upan L-shaped ambush on the back
of my hand.
They can teach me quantumphysics and stuff.
You get me so like it's justthat bonding and it's that
ability to like be there for oneanother and really help your

(49:52):
teammates and I think that isjust like the greatest gift.

Grant Vermeer (49:56):
Yeah, Speaking about helping your teammates,
and just like having thesegreatest gifts.
What did the experience ofbeing an army junior officer
mean to you?
Like an actual, an actualofficer in the army?
What did that experience meanto you and how was it?

Kelvin White (50:13):
For me it was great.
I was in Germany, I had like adeployment, operational
deployment to Poland in theSovolki gap there between
Belarus and Klinengrad, and Ithink again I like came in there
big, strong, fast.
I was like very confident inmyself, like I had just, like
you know, past ranger school.

(50:33):
I was ready to like provemyself to everybody and I think
it was just such a humblingexperience, you know, because
like I was on top of the worldand then I blew my ACL out
playing in the Turkey Bowl.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Oh, they're busted, baby.

Grant Vermeer (50:49):
Yeah, survived four years of college football
go busted in a flag footballgame in the Turkey Bowl.

Kelvin White (50:55):
Dude, I'm saying but like again, like all of
these things, like all of thesethings, man, like I don't know
that had I not had theexperience I had at west point
that I would have like came backfrom that that was the hardest
thing I've ever done in my lifeas a junior officer, and I think
you know.
And then I met my wife and Ijust like everything from that
day when I met my wife not evenmarried her.
When I met her, my life hadjust gotten way way better.

(51:18):
So we're here five years laterfrom our wedding and I think all
of those experiences are justlike who we are today, man and
being a junior officer like atthe academies, they prepare you
so hard, like they prepare youYou're going to be a platoon
leader, or you know theequivalent of that in the Naval
Academy, and you're doing thatfor four years.

(51:38):
Not one time in West Point didthey tell me about being a
company commander, which thisplaque here when I was on 126th,
101st Airborne Division.
Not one time at West Point didwe talk about being a company
commander.
It was all about being aplatoon leader Four years for 18
months of my life and I justwas super prepared for the
things I was going to experiencejust because of the you know,

(52:00):
dedication and experiences thatthey gave me at West Point.
So super, super great, humblingexperience for sure.

Grant Vermeer (52:06):
Yeah, without a doubt, I think that's.
In my opinion, this is thecoolest thing about why Service
Academy Also?
Why ROTC also?
Why like OCS, whatever like?
Why being a military juniorofficer?
But I think this, specifically,is one of the coolest things
about the Service Academies Also.
Why ROTC Also?
Why OCS, whatever?
Why being a military juniorofficer?
But I think this, specifically,is one of the coolest things

(52:27):
about the service academies ingeneral Is that if you're
growing up and you know you have, there's an innate sense of
inside you.
You know where you enjoy being apart of a team and you enjoy
helping people.
You have this sense of likeservice inside you.
There is no better opportunitythan going to a service academy
and becoming a military juniorofficer Nowhere else in America

(52:47):
at 22 years old 21, 22 years oldthe moment you graduate, you
become that second lieutenant,you become an ensign in the Navy
.
Are you going to have theability to make a positive
impact in a lot of people'slives.
When you show up to your firstplatoon for me, to my first
division, there are going to belike 10 to 15 young men and
women who are looking at you at22 years old because you have

(53:11):
the rank and you have theauthority to make a positive
impact in their life.
Right, and it's incredible right.
Like where else are you goingto have the ability to connect
with humans, lead humans andhelp them with their life
situations, whatever the casemay be?
Like there are not a lot ofplaces where you can have the

(53:32):
authority to make a real impact.
Like you may be able to be niceto them, but when you show up
and you're a platoon leader orplatoon commander or you're a
division officer, you may beable to be nice to them, but
when you show up and you're aplatoon leader or platoon
commander or you're a divisionofficer, you may have the
ability to advocate on theirbehalf to bring and, like be the
champion of their admin packageto get them to a school that's
going to help advance theircareer or whatever the case is
right, like you have the abilityto make a positive impact in

(53:55):
the lives of incredible youngmen and women who have enlisted
in our armed services.
Right and like that's so cool.
Right, like the privilege toserve in the navy marine corps
team, the army team, whatever itis, be a man or a woman for
others.
And like help people whogenuinely have a desire to be a
part of something bigger thanthemselves, like that's your
role, that's the coolest thing.
Like you are going, you arecommissioning and you are going

(54:17):
into a role, a role that isbuilt around being that direct
level leadership, that directlevel mentor and advocate for
these people and to help themout.
Right and like that's that'sacross the board.
That doesn't matter if you'reWest Point, that doesn't matter.
If you're Navy, that doesn'tmatter.
If you're the Air Force Academy, the Coast Guard, that's going
to be your role in the armedservices.

(54:38):
And that's freaking sweet dude.
That's really cool.
That's really cool.
And so you know, as we talkabout these things, whether it's
Beast Barracks, whether it'sPlebe Summer, whether it's some
of these different things,summer trainings out in the
field, shooting rifles, orwhatever or you're on a ship out
in Yokosuka, japan, right,you're on a ship out in Yokosuka
, japan, right?
Like it all comes down to theseshared common experiences,

(55:01):
these shared values.
It's just like everything thatcomes with being a part of a
service academy, right, and Ithink that's what makes this
game that's coming up next week.
You know all the pomp andcircumstance, all this, like
jets flying over all the TVcoverage, everything, blah, blah
, blah.
It's crazy, it's cool, it's fun, but, like what it comes down
to, what makes it so special islike every person in that

(55:22):
stadium who's getting ready tocommission is going to be put in
a place of trust and authorityto like, make a positive people
or a positive impact in people'slives.
Like, what more do you want?
Like that's, I guess, so cool,right, and so you know I'm gonna
.
Calvin, if you want, we'regoing to start to wrap it up
here.
We're approaching the hour mark, so just start to wrap it up.
But if there's anything elsethat you want to leave with the

(55:43):
audience about your experience,about why a service academy, you
know just general thoughts ofeverything related to this game
and you know your experience inthe Army, man, now's the time,
let it wrap.

Kelvin White (55:55):
Yeah, grant, thanks again, man, I think
you're spot on with the positiveimpact.
One thing if I could just goback and talk to myself when I
was 18 years old, sitting onthat couch in high school, I
didn't know how important it wasto be a West Point graduate.
Grateful enough for me, I wassuper grateful to have people

(56:17):
around me that were like, hey,you don't understand what the
impact of going to West Point isgoing to do for you.
And I can say, after almost 14years difference of like that
conversation that I had, it isthe most profound decision I've
ever made in my life and it justlike sticking it out.
And, you know, going back toall those wow, like I don't want

(56:39):
to be here anymore moments orlike what did I get myself into?
I'm telling you that I gotmyself into the best trouble I
could ever get into.
And that is like sticking itout, growing the experiences
that I've been able to like havethe people I've met, the.
You know, life is a contactsport and like you just have to

(57:00):
see it through.
And for anybody else who's outthere, that's like you know,
considering a service academy.
I can tell you that you knowthere'll be some like internal
bickering and there'll be, youknow, some smack talk going back
and forth, but I promise you,if you choose any of those
service academies, it'll be thebest decision that you ever made
in your life.
And if you have the opportunityto play sports there or just be

(57:21):
a part of like sports teams,I'm telling you that it's it'll
change your life forever, andI'm it's just.
It's such a great experienceand not to get away, to get away
a little bit more, as we'resitting here talking about
service academies and you haveall this NIL nonsense going on
with the NCAA.
Like you're talking aboutservice academies and you have

(57:41):
all this NIL nonsense going onwith the NCAA.
Like, just know that serviceacademies still build men and
women.
We're not here to, you know,get bought out and do all those
things.
Like those guys who raisedtheir hand, those women who
raised their hands to go to oneof these service academies.
They're here for all of us andthey're here to get better and
they're here to serve andthey're here to protect and
defend the Constitution of theUnited States of America.
So yeah, grant, a blast dude Ilove I could talk about this

(58:05):
forever.
I just want to say thank youagain for having me on your
platform.
Academy Insider is phenomenal.
You know how I feel about you.
I'm super grateful for beinghere and I can't wait to see all
the things that you have instore for AI and go Army, be
Navy.

Grant Vermeer (58:20):
I love it.
I appreciate it, man.
Yeah, absolutely.
You said something that I'mabout to extend for just two
seconds because I think it'simportant, so I'm sorry for the
sign off.
I'll let you throw that inthere one more time before we
end.
But, like you're saying about it, it quite literally being the
best decision you ever made inyour life, right, and you know,
like, from a, from a, from alife trajectory standpoint, as a

(58:40):
young, as a, as an 18 year old,right, like, of all these
aspects, the service Academyeducation is so powerful for,
and I think like three mainreasons that we've kind of
summed up in this episode, whichis one, the power of the
midshipman experience, of thepower to the cadet experience.
And like learning, adversity,learning, struggle, learning how
to be a part of a team, likegoing through all these

(59:02):
different aspects.
Right, you have the power ofbeing a junior officer.
Right, and we talk about havingthese responsibilities,
actually commanding something,commanding a unit, holding
standards.
Like being in charge of theperformance, morale, welfare of
all these people and having anability to really make a
positive impact in people'slives.
Right, like there's nothingthat will give you more purpose
than knowing you are responsiblefor the welfare and like

(59:25):
general morale of these youngmen and women who are part of
your unit.
Right, and the power of theservice academy network, dude,
right, like you were saying, thepower of this network again,
when you'd make a choice to goto West Point, to go to the
Naval Academy, to go to AirForce.
You are not making a four-yeardecision, you are making a
40-plus year decision of a lifethat is going to be filled with

(59:46):
purpose, mission, success, allthese different things.
You are foregoing theshort-term comfort and fun of a
normal college experience andyou are choosing the long-term
vision of like, fulfillment andpurpose in your life.
Right, and there's nothingbetter than that.
And that happens whether you'rein West Point, new York,
whether you're in Annapolis,maryland.

(01:00:07):
One thing we didn't get in thisepisode Annapolis, maryland is
so much more dope than WestPoint, new York.
That's a final plug right herefor that, like hey, being in
Annapolis is great West.
Point is cold, dark and gray, noone wants to go there, don't
fall for the trap.
But yeah, man, I just thinkit's special and I just like I
really appreciate everything yousaid and for being here again.

(01:00:29):
So, as you know, but it'salways go, navy, it's always go.
Navy beat Army man.

Kelvin White (01:00:33):
I'm sorry, brother .
I appreciate your time, man.

Grant Vermeer (01:00:35):
Yeah, absolutely All right To everyone listening.
Thank you so much.
If you have any questions, letme know.
If you ever want to getconnected to Kelvin, let me know
as well.
Otherwise, I hope you enjoyedlistening.
I hope you have a great day.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of the Academy
Insider Podcast.
I really hope you liked it,enjoyed it and learned something
during this time.
If you did, please feel free tolike and subscribe or leave a

(01:00:57):
comment about the episode.
We really appreciate to hearyour feedback about everything
and continue to make AcademyInsider an amazing service that
guides, serves and supportsmidshipmen, future midshipmen
and their families.
Thank you.