#081 Foreign Area Officers - the Hidden Gem of Military Officer Careers! - The Academy Insider Podcast - Your Guide to The Naval Academy Experience

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider Podcast.
Academy Insider is a 501c3nonprofit organization that
serves midshipmen, futuremidshipmen and their families.
At its core, this podcast isdesigned to bring together a
community of Naval Academygraduates and those affiliated
with the United States NavalAcademy in order to tell stories
and provide a little bit ofinsight into what life at the

(00:22):
Naval Academy is really like.
I hope you enjoy it.
Thank you so much for listeningand reach out if you ever have
any questions.
Hey everyone, and welcome backto the Academy Insider podcast.
If you are a fan of AcademyInsider, this is another one of
these episodes that you're goingto absolutely love, because we
get to highlight all the coolthings that can be the results
of going to the Naval Academy,being an officer in the armed

(00:42):
services and all theopportunities that exist within
the career field.
And so and today I'm joined byCaptain Susanna Brugler, who is
a Naval Academy graduate herself, and she's a what we call a FAO
, a foreign area officer FAOshe's currently stationed in
Columbia, working andinterfacing with the Columbia
Navy, and these are the coolopportunities that exist.
So if you're like FAO I'venever heard of that, I have no

(01:04):
idea what it is, then you'regoing to love this episode
because we're going to highlightwhat a Feo is, what they do,
the training process they gothrough, from language training
to cultural immersion, to thejobs that they can do, what that
means for their career and life, and just all of the above.
It's awesome.
No-transcript them answeredOtherwise.

(01:31):
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Enjoy the listen.
Thank you so much and have agood day.
The Academy Insider Podcast issponsored by the Vermeer Group,
a residential real estatecompany that serves the United
States Naval Academy communityand other select clientele in
both California and Texas.

(01:52):
If I can ever answer a realestate related question for you
or connect you with a trustedAcademy affiliated agent in the
market which you're in, pleasereach out to me directly at
grant at the Vermeer groupcom.
You can also reach out to me onmy LinkedIn page, grant Premier
, and I'd be happy to respond toyou there.
Thank you so much, and nowlet's get back to the episode.
All right, hey, everyone, andwelcome back to the Academy

(02:13):
Insider Podcast.
Susanna, thank you so much fortaking the time to join us today
.
I'm so excited to cover what Ithink is going to be a really
interesting topic that a lot ofpeople likely don't know about,
which is the Foreign AreaOfficer Program.
But before we get there, do youmind giving us a little bit of
background about where you'refrom, how you ended up at the
Naval Academy, a little bitabout your career in the Navy
and now currently where you'reat taking this interview, quite

(02:35):
literally from Bogota, colombia.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yes, well, grant, thank you so much for inviting
me to be on your podcast.
I've been following you forseveral months now and I feel
honored to be here, so thank youagain.
Yes, I am an academy grad.
I graduated in 1998, so I'mprobably an old-timer for you,
although you have had a coupleof old-timers on.

(02:58):
I got interested in the NavalAcademy because my parents are
both educators and they went ona recruiter's visit to the Naval
Academy.
My dad was teaching high school, my mother was a guidance
counselor at the time and I wasin seventh grade.
I was very impressionable andI'm from a small town in Ohio.
It's a small town calledDefiance of Northwest Ohio.

(03:19):
So when they came home fromAnnapolis and they told seventh
grade Susanna Brugler about theNaval Academy, they had
described it to me like it wassummer camp.
So I was intrigued and theytalked about the leadership
potential, the leadershipopportunities, they talked about
serving in the Navy, all ofthese things.

(03:40):
That were brand new concepts tome, because I'm from midtown
America.
I'm from a place America I'mfrom, you know, a place where
there is no Navy.
So, yeah, I found it intriguingand I was very curious.
So it was something that Iactually had been working toward
and, sure enough, by the time Igraduated from high school, I
had a rather unique entry Well,not completely unique, but a

(04:03):
different entry to the NavalAcademy.
I was first a foundationstudent and I know you've had
NAP students.
I'm not sure if you've hadfoundation students.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
We haven't done a foundation student yet, but I'm
excited to dive deep into thatin another episode.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
It's a wonderful program where, if you're maybe
academically qualified but youcould bone up on a couple of
subjects, but not necessarilypegged for for naps for the
Naval Academy of ShreveportSchool in Newport.
They have an alternate venue oran alternate means to get into
the Naval Academy and that isthe foundation program.
A lot of athletes, you know, ifyou're in kind of athletics

(04:40):
like maybe sailing or crew, or Iknow a lot of football players,
tend to go to naps, but anyway.
So that was an opportunity thatwas offered to me and I and I
jumped at it, I took it in aheartbeat and so I went to the
Perky Omen school, which is asmall prep school in Pennsburg,
pennsylvania, and I was apostgraduate student there.
And after I graduated from that, from that year of a

(05:02):
postgraduate year, then I wentto the Naval Academy.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
So that and how was your, your parents
self-described summer camp?
How?

Speaker 2 (05:08):
was it?
Yeah, yeah, I think maybe afterlike one hour of induction day
of I day, I quickly realizedthat the summer, that they
really had a warped sense ofwhat summer camp was, if that
was what summer camp.
They thought it was like no, butit yeah, it was.
You know my years at the navalacademy.

(05:29):
So I, you know this was in thesummer of 1994 and women had not
yet attended the serviceacademies 20 years yet.
So it was, I really feel, likeI had kind of a bridge
generation where we kind of wentfrom.
I mean, I think there were 14%women who were there when I was
there and I understand nowthere's maybe closer to 30%.

(05:51):
So, there really was anenvironment, a brand new
environment for me.
I was not used to being such aminority, so that was a real
adjustment.
It was yeah, I mean it ended upin the end being, you know,
because I persevered like therest of us.
You know, I think a lot ofpeople that you've had on your
podcast say, well, everybodyelse was doing the same thing.

(06:13):
So, you know, I was able tohang in there, and that's really
what it was like for me too.
It was no different you know,you know commissions.
Oh, sorry, sorry, no, I justsaid that, like you know, my
shipmates, my classmates fromthe class of 1998, you know
that's how we got through isthat we had each other?

Speaker 1 (06:31):
No, 100%.
And so you make it through withthe class of 98 and then you
commission into what community?

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, I became a surface warfare officer and,
interestingly enough, I wasreally interested.
I knew by then that I wasinterested in becoming a public
affairs officer and I was anEnglish major at the Naval
Academy.
I was a Spanish minor and I haddone an internship while I was
a midshipman.
One summer I had done aninternship at the public affairs
officer at the Naval Academyno-transcript internship and I

(07:30):
said yes.
So you know, for the parentsout there, for the midshipmen
candidates out there, the greatthing about the Naval Academy is
that there's so many people wholook after you and are helping
to guide you Like you.
There's so many mentors there.
It's really just an incredibleenvironment to meet new people
and people who are genuinelyinterested in your well-building

(07:51):
and want to see you succeed andwill help you do that.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, 100%.
And so how was your time as aSWO?
Yeah, did you enjoy being a SWObefore that transfer, yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
So I forgot about that.
Well, and being a SWO, I mean,while I really wanted to be a
public affairs officer, but Iwill tell you, being a surface
warfare officer for my entirecareer up until today is the
foundation of who I am as aleader, who I am as a naval
officer.
It was so vital to my successtoday, so I do want to stress

(08:22):
that.
So the surface warfare officercommunity selected me that's how
I describe it because therereally was no other.
I wasn't interested in flying,women couldn't serve on
submarines then.
So it was yeah, it was surfacewarfare officer, and I was of

(08:44):
the mindset, well, if I'm goingto do something, I knew my goal
was to lateral transfer topublic affairs.
But if I thought, if I'm goingto do something, I'm going to,
you know, I'm going to go big orgo home.
So I selected a cruiser out ofYokosuka, japan.
I was on USS Mobile Bay CG-53.
I think she just decommissioneda year ago, but yeah, I.

(09:06):
I think she just decommissioneda year ago, but yeah, I was the
first lieutenant, I was thefourth, the fourth woman to
report to that ship in thespring of 1999.
So it was probably the hardesttwo years of my life.
I'm not gonna you know.
But again, grant, when you'retalking to me, you know I've
reluctantly accepted that I'm adinosaur now in the Navy, even
though I don't feel like it.
I definitely don't feel likeI'm a dinosaur now in the Navy,
even though I don't feel like it?
I definitely don't feel like I'ma dinosaur, but I know that I

(09:27):
am.
I mean, this was back whenwomen were first integrating our
combatant platforms.
I was the fourth, and for anentire year I was one of four
women.
And then after that first yearwe integrated the crew, so the
enlisted personnel, and once wedid that we brought a board I
don't know between 20 and 30.
I don't know the exact number,but it made life on board as one

(09:50):
of the women just much easier,because that microscope wasn't
only on the four officers thathappened to be just selected to
start the integration.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, no, a hundred percent.
And you eventually make yourshift to becoming a PAO and then
and then you get out and enterinto the reserves.
So what was that process ofgetting out of the reserves and
then kind of shifting almostinto again?
What we'll say is, like themain emphasis of this episode,
which is the FAO program, howdid you go from being a
reservist to back active duty,doing what you're doing now as a

(10:24):
foreign area officer?

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, so I served as a public affairs officer.
I laterally transferred aftermy first division officer on my
ship and I had a rathersuccessful public affairs career
and I served for about, I think, 12 and a half years, at the
juncture when I had decided toleave active duty and to go into
the reserves, part of thereason I think I just had.

(10:48):
I was in my early thirties andI definitely had, you know, some
different things that I hadwanted to accomplish in my life.
One of them was to learn aforeign language, and so what I
did when I left active duty wasI followed an Olmstead scholar
to Cádiz, spain, and I lived inSpain for a year as a student.
So I tell people I sort ofdeveloped a homespun Olmstead

(11:11):
program.
I found a way to live in Spain,to take classes at the
university and I started myreserve career and during that
time I was the AfricaPartnership Station Public
Affairs Officer in my reserveopportunities.
So with a year that I lived inCadiz, I spent about two and a
half months traveling in Kenya,tanzania, Mozambique, mauritius,

(11:33):
so that was on the east coastof Spain or, I'm sorry, of
Africa, and that's kind of whatreally began the transition for
me to really start thinking offoreign area officer as an
opportunity, as something that Ireally kind of wanted to pursue
, and unfortunately, at thattime, there was not yet a

(11:54):
reserve foreign area officerprogram.
So I thought, oh great, I justleft the active duty, where they
do have a foreign area officerprogram, and I'm a reservist.
But I knew that the Navy wastrying to develop a reserve for
an area community and so, sureenough, fast forward maybe five
years to 2016, 2017, the Navyhad indeed stood up, or was

(12:18):
starting to stand up, a foreignarea officer reserve community,
and they held two boards overthe course of two years.
I didn't get selected the firstboard, but I did get selected
the second board, so I'm one ofthe first reservists who started
to build what's now a ratherrobust program in the Navy
Reserve foreign area officercommunity, so really proud of

(12:41):
that.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, so cool.
And when we reference theforeign area officer in general
and program, what is it?
Do you mind giving us a highlevel overview?
Again?
We talk about we use theseterms.
Are we talking about a servicewarfare officer?
You're on a ship.
We talk about public affairsofficer.
You're out there controllingmessaging and media and
communication, both internallyand externally.
Right, yeah, what's a foreignarea officer and what do they do

(13:04):
?

Speaker 2 (13:06):
What's a foreign area officer and what do they do?
What's the program?
Well, that's a great questionbecause it's a very I would say,
a rather niche area, but it's avery important area.
So foreign area officers arealso referred to as FAOs.
We're the Navy's globallyembedded strategic operators.
We develop and lead integratedplans and international

(13:26):
operations to deliver strategiceffects.
So, yeah, that sounds like a lotof blah, blah, blah.
What do you really do?
Well, faos live downrange andwe work directly with our
partner nations.
We have three lines of effort.
The first one is the defenseattache service, the second one
is the security cooperationenterprise and the third one is

(13:50):
fleet and major staff.
So I'll go over those three injust a moment.
So, defense attache service weserve as attaches around the
world, and what attaches are are?
They're basically accrediteddiplomats that lead in policy
and strategy and information.
So they work with US countryteams.

(14:11):
They sometimes work, or they dowork, out of US embassies and
they, you know, if you ever are,you know, at an event and you
see somebody who's wearing thisreally large epaulette like
really big, not a flag- yeah,not a flag, but a big one.

Speaker 1 (14:27):
Those are attaches.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
So, yeah, that's a very unique opportunity to
represent the United Statesaround the world and, if you're
anything like me, it's exciting,it's adventurous, it is.
I just I'm so proud of what Ido because I get to represent my
country in foreign countriesand I just think that's the

(14:50):
coolest thing.
So that kind of covers reallythe information in the
communications environment on adeeply personal level.
That's what attaches do inspecifically working with our
partner nations.
Security cooperation isactually what I do right now.
I'm the US Naval Mission Chiefto Bogota, colombia, so I'm in
charge of an office of about 15people.

(15:11):
In that office I have threeofficers.
I have one Marine Corps officerwho is my deputy, I have a
Coast Guard liaison officer andI have an O-4 who is the
maritime operations planner 04,who is the Maritime Operations
Planner and what securitycooperation is.
It's different programs anddifferent opportunities that the
US has to work with a partnernation, everything from foreign

(15:34):
military sales to foreignmilitary funding, to
international military educationand training.
So these are all incrediblyimportant programs for our
partner nations in theintegration and development.
So if I'm in Colombia now andsay we have this case study
where we actually need to workcooperatively in the information

(15:55):
environment.
So my office would do anassessment and you know let's
say it was on riverine boats wedo an assessment and we find a
way.
Ok, how are we going tocoordinate with the Colombian
Navy or the Colombian MarineCorps when we're working in the
riverine environment?
So we'll make an assessment,we'll figure out what programs,
what kind of hardware we wouldneed to in order to work

(16:16):
interoperably, and then we wouldgo ahead and find a way to
finance that, whether the hostnation actually buys the
equipment from the United Statesor whether we actually do fund
programs so that our partnershave the capability to work with
us.
So that's just an example ofthe impact that we have to
ensure that these partnersaround the world, that we're

(16:38):
able to work with them closely,that we're able to do strategic
operations and strategic work inthe operational environment.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
So in terms of we were talking about that security
cooperation what does that mean, especially in terms of your
job and interaction with theColombian Navy?
How much of your time are youspending out kind of like in the
field, interacting andcooperating with, you know,
colombian military leadership?
And then specifically in thisrole like, what is the United
States relationship with theColombian Navy and what

(17:06):
initiatives are you guys workingon?

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Yeah, thank you for asking that question.
I think it's a great one andit's.
I work with the Colombian Navyevery single day, nearly every
day that I'm living here inBogota, colombia.
In fact I have an office.
I'm completely embedded withthe Colombian Navy.
My office is in the Fortaleza.
The Fortaleza is basically theColombians version of the
Pentagon.
So when I go to work, every dayI show up at the Fortaleza.

(17:31):
I have an office there.
That's where my staff works andevery day I am certainly
communicating with the ColombianNavy, if not, you know, having
meetings.
So I meet with everybody fromreally the chief of the
Colombian Navy all the way down.
I mean having meetings so Imeet with everybody from really
the chief of the Columbia Navyall the way down.
I mean, for my level, I usuallygo work with fellow 06s.
That's kind of, you know, asthe Naval Mission Chief, I'm

(17:53):
kind of like at the flightofficer 06 level.
That's where I do a lot of mycoordination, kind of at the
decision-making level.
But my the officers in myoffice, you know they will work
with everybody in the ColombianNavy who is tasked with, you
know, taking advantage of ourprograms or coordinating with us
in order foreign land, speakinga language that might not be

(18:28):
your first language Spanishdefinitely isn't my first
language and really interactingon a human level with our
partner nations.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
That's what we do into the language piece now,
because that was going to be myfollow-up is, if you're quite
literally engaging daily withColombian military leadership
like I'm sure a lot of that isdone in Spanish Like what is the
language part of this programand how does the Navy prepare
you to go there Like you're,just like it's not like they're,

(18:59):
you become a fail and they justsend you to Columbia on day one
right Like how is?
what's kind of the process inthe schooling pipeline when it
comes to this program to get youready to be doing what you're
doing?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah.
So in the Navy, andspecifically for the foreign
area officer community, it's notsomething that you can service,
select right out of the NavalAcademy or right after you're
right out of your commissioningsource.
So the foreign area officercommunity is looking for, at a
bare minimum, four to five yearsof service and your best
opportunity if you think you'reinterested in this type of

(19:31):
career field is to have that bewarfare designator service.
So coming from the surfacewarfare community, the submarine
community, the aviationcommunity, of course those
communities will have to agreeto let you go into the foreign
area officer community and withlateral transfers it's kind of a
dance on how you do that and ithas to do with your year group

(19:53):
and how our manning, overallmanning in the Navy is fleshed
out.
But the soonest opportunity isat four or five years, really
the sweet spot because we'relooking with.
We really want people who havea sound foundational
understanding of what the Navyis, what it is we do, what our
platforms are, because at theend of the day we do end up, you

(20:15):
know, especially in securitycooperation, servicing programs
that you know, maybe foracquisition of aircraft I mean.
So it's really important tohave a good and solid
understanding of the communitywarfare community where you came
from.
So a real sweet spot isapproaching the 10-year mark.
But what happens is we have infact we have one out right now.

(20:37):
We have a call for actuallycall for lateral transfer or
call for applications.
You take the D-Lab, the DefenseLanguage, a aptitude battery,
and we're looking for a score of110.
If you're around the 110 markthen you're probably going to be
a good candidate to be able tolearn and pick up a foreign
language and then really lookingfor the right personality or

(21:00):
for people who have kind of thecharacteristics of having the
audacity and the interest ofliving overseas, of working with
our partner nations, ofbuilding those relationships.
And there's a board that we'llmeet.
It's usually chaired by a 06foreign area officer, such as
myself, and then there'll bemaybe an 04 and 05 on the board,

(21:20):
generally chaired by threepeople who are foreign area
officers.
They'll be maybe an 04 and 05on the board, generally chaired
by three people who are foreignarea officers, and they go ahead
and they screen the candidateand they select of.
You know they have a ratingsystem and it just really
depends on.
Every time we have the call forlet all transfer.
It happens twice a year and,yeah, that's how they're
selected.
So the training pipeline so ifyou say you're a classic SWO or

(21:43):
aviator candidate, you getselected to be a foreign area
officer, then generally, like,the typical pipeline of what we
do is the Navy will send you toget your master's degree if you
don't already have it.
And we'd like to have ainternational relations-based
master's degree.
Typically it's at NPS or theNaval Postgraduate School in
Monterey and because the DefenseLanguage Institute is also

(22:08):
located in Monterey, it justmakes it very smooth transition.
You'll be assigned to region,you'll get your master's degree
at NPS and then you'll get yourlanguage training, probably get
Arabic.
You know clearly somebody whois going to be assigned to South
Com, like I am you'll get yourSpanish and then from there,
once you have those things, theinternational relations master's

(22:30):
degree, once you have your yourlanguage aptitude and the score
or the way we test for languageaptitude is by taking the DLPT
or the defense languageproficiency test and at a bare
minimum we are looking forpeople who score a 2.2.
So that's two in listeningcomprehension and a two in
reading comprehension.

(22:51):
But really when you get downrange we want you to kind of get
a little more proficient thanwhat a 2.2 provides.
A 2.2 is pretty good, butreally to get really, you know,
really have an understanding, tostart to get that fluency we're
looking for people to screen atthree, three three, three, yeah
, yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
A couple couple questions before we move to the
next spot.
You mentioned the term D lab,which is like the language
aptitude test.
Yes, what like what?
How do how is like the Nate orlike the military, determining
your aptitude to learn alanguage?
Like what is?
What does the test consist?
Test consist of?
And then kind of with that is,are you putting in preferences

(23:29):
to work a specific region orlearn a specific language?
What is the difference betweenyour performance on your
aptitude to learn a languageversus your preference of a
region you want to go to?

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Boy, you're asking probing questions here, but I
like them.
So thanks for asking those,Grant.
Yeah, so this is open source.
But when you take the defenselanguage aptitude battery, what
it is is it's kind of made uplanguages where the military is
testing you of how well youcould potentially, how well your

(24:01):
brain functions with thepotential of picking up a
language.
So it's really gibberishlanguages that you'll be exposed
to.
You'll be listening, you mightbe reading something, but yeah,
there's kind of no way to studyfor it because it's really
testing your aptitude or yourpotential to learn a language.

(24:21):
So the D-Lab, while it'simportant, it apparently is a
great measurement or a greattool to kind of realize how well
you will pick up a language.
So if you score a really highscore on the D-Lab, you might be
pegged or you might beearmarked to be assigned to the

(24:42):
Middle East, because Arabic is avery difficult language to pick
up as a second language, ormaybe even Eastern Europe,
russia another strategiclanguage or for China, if you
don't have exposure to Mandarin,that would be something that
you would be looked for.
But I love your questionbecause at the end of the day,
it's the needs of the Navy.

(25:03):
Where does the Navy need moreforeign area officers?
So, without having had a deepdiscussion with our detailer, I
would say the Indo-Pacificregion is a hotbed of where we
really kind of need foreign areaofficers right now.
But you never know, thingschange.
That's why we have FAOs aroundthe world who work in the seams.

(25:26):
Because, especially when youconsider strategic competition,
where are strategic competitors,mainly China and Russia?
Where are they exerting theirinfluence?
It's everywhere.
It's around the world.
That's why we have FAOsstationed around the world.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And that's super interestingbecause when we talk about
regions now again kind of thiswhole process you talk about
South Com, a region where thereare multiple countries that
speak the same language.
Besides Brazil, every countryin South America is a
Spanish-speaking country.
But if we're talking aboutIndo-Pacom or the Indo-Pacific,
there are countries that do notspeak the same language at all.

(26:05):
Probably thousands, yeah, thereare countries that do not speak
the same language at all.
So, like do you get pigeonholedto again just a region?
Like how do you go from regionto language, if that makes sense
, and then like actuallyspecified what language you're
going to be learning and whatcountry you're going to be?

Speaker 2 (26:19):
supporting.
Yeah, again, at the end of theday, and the Foreign Area
Officer community really doestry to detail or assign their
FAOs to the language and regionthat they are trained up on.
But at the end of the day theneeds of the Navy went out.
And that kind of brings me tothe third LOE or line of effort

(26:39):
that I really didn't go intodiscussing, and that is fee and
major staff.
So this is the third role thatFAOs serve.
It's actually a very critical Iwould sometimes argue could
potentially be the most criticalline of effort that we serve in
, because that's how weinfluence our senior leaders,
that's how we influence peoplelike the chief of naval
operations, the VCNO, all thestaff that's at the op-nav level

(27:04):
.
But going into the fleets,where your fleet commanders are
the ones that are really incharge of operations, the
foreign area officers oftentimesare their N5s, so they're the
ones that are specificallycharged with advising them
strategically and it's such anexciting role.
I mean, if you haven't noticed,I really love what I do and I

(27:28):
love what they do.
We're so vital to how the Navyfunctions today, being a global
force, and especially in thestrategic competition
environment, we are the gluethat kind of ties our tactics
and our operations to what ourleaders want us to do

(27:49):
strategically.
That's what Fayots do.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, and it's so cool because it's even more than
language which.
I think is really interestingBecause you're not just like,
you're not a translator, no,You're there to understand the
culture and be an advisor to thestaff, right Like whether that
be with the security cooperationand engagement with, like
actual Columbia Navy, or as anadvisor to the staff, right Like
whether that be with thesecurity cooperation and
engagement with, like actualColumbia Navy or as an advisor
to Southcom right or the Admiral, and so can you talk a little

(28:13):
bit on like the actual culturalimmersion piece of the FAO
program and how again FAO's justjust talking about like all the
cool opportunities and jobs youdo through the FAO training
pipeline and process to to getan understanding of regions on
top of like your languagetraining.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
Sure, sure.
And again, going back to yourlast question, just to kind of
put a bow on it so we really dotry to focus on a specific
region, but we're just about tobreak into this new concept of
where we'll have a major regionand a minor region, so it gives
us the flexibility to specializein more than one region.
And if you look at my career, Imean I have served in the US

(28:58):
Fifth Fleet in Bahrain.
I was the Nassau LiaisonOfficer at the US Embassy there.
So I have experience, you know,in the Middle East, but my
language is Spanish and I'mserving in Colombia now.
So really, I think Colombia isgoing to be my major region.
But to make things even moreinteresting, if you will, as a
reservist and we didn't eventalk about this I'm and my
career, but I did manage to goback onto permanent active duty

(29:29):
and actually next December notthis December, but next December
I will have completed my 20years total of active duty
service, even though I've beencommissioned, for it'll be 27
years by then, but I as areservist, thank you, thank you.
As a reservist, I served as aAfrica regional foreign area
officer.
So, yeah, this concept ofregions, I don't want to get the

(29:51):
conversation too bogged down on.
You know being specialized in aregion, but you're right, we do
have programs where we learnabout our regions.
One of them is through theGeorge Washington Elliott School
.
We have a wonderful opportunitywhere we really get to study
and we get to speak to expertsfrom our regions, professors,

(30:12):
people from think tanks and wetake about five days roughly a
week where we kind of do a deepdive on our region and what the
issues are and how they mightapply to our own country or,
more broadly, to the region thatwe're assigned to.
Another way is something wecall in-region training.
It is part of the trainingpipeline.
It's not guaranteed that you'llbe able to do it, but if

(30:33):
there's room within your careerpath, you might be assigned.
For example, somebody who wouldbe coming to Columbia might get
an assignment in Chile and getto practice their Spanish in
Chile, kind of get you know, getexposed to a different country
in the region, and then theymight ultimately end up, you
know, at the US military groupin Bogota.

(30:54):
So it's yeah, it's, and we'rekind of hitting on another.
Another characteristic of beinga foreign area officer that I
love, which is continuallearning.
We are continual learnersofficer.
That I love, which is continuallearning.
We are continual learners.
We are constantly encouragedand exposed to opportunities and
programs where we reallystretch our minds, where we
really stretch our intellect,but it's all centered around

(31:17):
strategic understanding of whatthe Navy is doing in our global
environments around the world.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Sure, and in terms of all this, again, continual
learning and I got a lot of thatis through this immersion and
being there.
And so when we're talking about, like your actual life impact
for lack of a better term what'skind of?
Again, we talk in the Navy, alot of the seashore rotation,
right, you spend time out to sea, but then you come home as a
FAO.
Are you spending time back homein the United States or are you

(31:45):
quite literally like hoppingfrom Bahrain to Colombia to
Chile and you're in a constant,almost like State Department
type lifestyle where you're justabroad always?

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Like.
What's that situation anddynamic like is that we really
strive to kind of marry up thedifferent opportunities and job
openings that happen with theneeds of our officers who are
serving.
So I'll give you an example Iam in Bogota with my family.
I have two young boys, a10-year-old and a 7-year-old,
and my husband is down here andmy husband he's able to work
remotely the three years thatwe're here in Colombia and we
are actually applying for anassignment that is in Santiago,

(32:32):
chile.
So this is something that weare choosing to do partially,
quite frankly, for our family,to give our boys the exposure of
really getting a solidfoundation of Spanish as their
second language.
And it happens career-wise.
That would be a very goodcareer step for me, aside from

(32:53):
it being something that I'mreally interested in.
But generally we do haveopportunities where, if you
serve a tour downrange and youwant to get yourself to the
United States, you and yourfamily or just yourself, if it's
just yourself we do havebillets that are, for example,
at Fourth Fleet, at Third Fleet,at the Pentagon, with OPNAB.

(33:16):
We have a lot of billets there.
With NIFO, which is NavyInternational Programs Office,
which is in the DC area.
We have STRATCOM, tramscom, youname it.
We've got positions andopenings where we can get you
back to the United States.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
That's so cool and so , along that path, kind of
steering this discussion alittle bit into the career paths
and options for FAOs you usethis term billet right, like
your job role or responsibility.
What's the career progressionfactors when it comes to a FAO?
Are you in the same role as an04 as you would be as an 06?

(33:49):
Like, what are the progressions?
You progress through regions?
Like, what does someone look atwhen you become a FAO?
Are you capping at 06 or arethere flag officers that are
FAOs?
Kind of like what's the careeroutlook as a FAO moving through
this program?

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah.
So generally, if you become aFAO, you're generally going to
transition at the senior 03, 04level and what's interesting
about our career field is youcould serve for example, I'm a
SCO chief is another name forwhat I do as the Naval Mission
Chief.
There are SCO chiefs that are04s, there are SCO chiefs that
are 05s, but Columbia is a hugepartner nation for the United

(34:27):
States.
That's why my job is billetedas an O6 position.
So, but we do have to answeryour question.
We do have stratification as faras a milestone billet,
milestone tours, and so when youare an O4, O5, you need to
screen into an 05 milestonebillet and there is a there's

(34:50):
actually a board that meets anddecides of the 05 FAOs who is
going to screen and make the cutso that they'll be assigned to
a milestone billet, and thoseare more robust.
There's more responsibilitiesin those positions and so once
you graduate into the milestonebillets, hopefully you'll do
well.
Then you have the futurepotential for advancement.

(35:12):
And then we have O6 billets,which are just for O6s to fill.
So our billets are stratifiedby the level of officer that you
are, by your pay grade,basically.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Very cool.
Okay, uh, awesome, it's helpful.
I love it again.
I think this is like super fun,as people are like think, like
not even knowing this may be anopportunity.
That's like, what does thislike mean for me?
How do I progress and advanceand do all those things, which
is so cool.
Yeah, I am just gonna bring itback just a tiny bit because I
got so excited.
We've removed this discussionin so many ways.
Yeah, hypothetically, right Inthe situation I was starting to

(35:48):
ask about the D-Lab because Iwas going to move into,
eventually, the languagetraining.
Okay, for that, how muchlanguage training are you
actually receiving by the Navy?
Right?
Like, when you get this, howmuch language are you actually
learning and what's the pipelineto specifically learn your
language?

Speaker 2 (36:06):
Okay, and again, great questions, grant, that
you're how much language are youactually learning and what's
the pipeline to specificallylearn your language?
Okay, and again, greatquestions, grant, that you're
asking, and this might be anopportunity to open up the
conversation a little more.
Not everybody gets languagetraining.
Now, great example is I am inthe South Com region.
We have a.
Actually there's a lot ofpeople, the South Com region, we

(36:28):
have a.
Actually there's a lot ofpeople.
Actually, of my three officerswho are in my office, all of
them are native language Spanishspeakers.
I'm the only one who is nativelanguage English, so they didn't
need language training.
I mean, they already spokeSpanish I when I crossed over.
And this is a littledistinguisher for the Navy
Reserve career field, before youbecome a FAO you have to reach

(36:52):
that 2-2.
On the DLPT you have to be aforeign language speaker on the
reserve side before you canredesignate to foreign area
officer Now, but on the activeduty side it's completely
different.
We are looking to take thosewarfare designators and to train
them to become foreign areaofficers.
So the primary means that we dothat is by sending them to the

(37:13):
Defense Language Institute whichI mentioned before in Monterey,
so that and hopefully get theofficer up to the minimum bar of
2-2, the trying to get them theaspirational score of getting a
3-3.
And I think the highest you canget is something like a 4.4, if
I'm not mistaken.
But I mean we're talking abouta very, very hard test.

(37:35):
That I mean, if you speak a 4.4, you're pretty much completely
fluent.

Speaker 1 (37:41):
Native yeah.
You're pretty much native, butyeah, in that time in Monterey,
like when we're talking aboutthe time at nps plus dli, is
this a one-year frame?
Is this a two-year time frame?
What's the rough?

Speaker 2 (37:53):
like yeah, commitment generally it's a one-year
program to get your master'sdegree and then after that,
depending.
So spanish, for example, ifit's still the way it's, it's a
six months, as I understand, dliprogram.
Again, I didn't learn spanishat dli, I learned it in spain.
I am, I call it a self-imposedimmersion, that's how I learned
it.
But, yeah, I think spanish issix months, but you can get up

(38:14):
to like, I think up to 18 monthsand again, that's the more.
That's the like mandarin, therussian, the yeah, the farsi,
like you know.
So it depends on I.
I would imagine French mightget a little more than six
months.
Maybe they get French would getnine months, but that's what
dictates, like, the complexityof the language and probably

(38:34):
baseline English.
How hard is it for somebody tolearn and you know this, but the
minimum is six months.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
And what happens, kind of what happens if you
don't reach a two, two right,like what happens if you go
through this process and you andyou can't do it I have known
foreign area officers who, justlike, really struggled with that
language piece and, to be quitefrank, I don't the the
individual I'm thinking of,never made it beyond oh, four,
and you know, sometimes, youknow that's, sometimes that

(39:03):
happens.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
But there's opportunity, the, the community
we're really.
We have what's called thelanguage and gosh, it's called
the LREC, the language regionand education and culture.
Yeah, and we have a wholecomponent designed to assist.
Fayots with their language andwith their cultural development.
And in fact, I am one where Ihave, after a year living in

(39:29):
Bogota and I told you I am not anative language speaker, not a
native Spanish speaker I didhave my tutu when I arrived here
After a year.
I scored a three, two plus.
So you see a progression.
I live here now so I speak alot more Spanish than I did when
I was back in the United States, but I am taking tutoring to

(39:51):
improve specifically my speaking, my Spanish language speaking.
So a lot of the resources thatare available to you as a FAO,
they are individual,motivational based, but I really
and knowing that I, I very wellmight stay down range I really
want to improve my Spanish.
I'm invested and, funnilyenough, you know that is one of

(40:15):
the indicators that will kind ofalmost virtually guarantee that
you'll improve in your languageskills is your personal
motivation.
So, yeah, I, I, if you know, ifyou see it, if you seek it,
they will come.
Or if you build it, if you seekit, they will come.
Or no if you build it, they willcome.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
If you build it, they'll come 100%.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
If you think it and if you aspire.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
You're going to manifest it.
Yeah, 100%, the resources arethere to make it happen.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
That's awesome.
What's funny is I wish I kindof knew about this when I was in
the Navy.
That would have been pretty funand cool.
Like again, what's what's funnyis I literally took 45 days of
leave in transit when I wasleaving my first command to my
shore tour and I went down toColumbia and I spent literally
45 days in Medellin like takingSpanish lessons from like 8am to
noon and then like just goingout and talking to people and

(41:01):
making friends and just tryingto like improve my Spanish.
Cause I always had this likedeep interest in like wanting to
learn another language and kindof immerse myself and get
another cultural understandingand I was like, dang, I could
have the Navy could have paid meto do that.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Yeah, and that's I mean, grant.
That's exactly why I'm so happythat you're having me on today,
because I want to get the wordout that this is a career field.
We have, I think, now around450 officers on active duty.
If you can think and I am notsurprised with your career
background that you might beinterested in doing this.

(41:36):
We need to get the word outthat it is such a vitally
important and we need to recruittop talent into this career
field because what we do is soimportant in that relationship
building and the working withthe partner nations and the
working with our senior leaderson the Navy and senior staff and
, you know, helping them withtheir strategic problems,

(41:57):
especially in the light ofstrategic competition and how
we're going to kind of navigatethe you know, the waters ahead.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Sure, yeah, it 100%.
I couldn't agree more and Ithink it's so cool and I love
that we're doing this.
And now to tackle a couple ofthe for lack of a better term
some of the logistic questions,right, as people are like
planning this and thinking ifthis is for them and again like
what if I do it?
And I love it, but like I havea family and they don't like
being overseas all the time,like what is the service

(42:27):
obligation that comes with beinga FAO?
Right, I assume most people whochoose this path are like I'm
excited about this and I want tomake a career of it, but what
happens if life situationschanges?
Like, at what point are they?
Like how much of the serviceobligation is is mandated I'll
put it that way for goingthrough this program?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Oh my gosh, that's a great question.
So we do kind of adhere to theeducation and training.
So for graduate education youhave a year of graduate school.
I think it's like two for one.
So one year would make atwo-year obligation.
On the back end, of course,with the language training, you
add that onto it.
So, yeah, if it's justsomething that doesn't work out

(43:07):
for you, you would work withyour detailer and you would work
with the community manager andyou would probably just signal
to them hey, I'm not sure thatthis is something that I first
see me and my family, or justmyself, just me, doing in the
long term.
Are there any off ramps?
And fortunately now there is anoff ramp and that is to go into

(43:27):
the reserve foreign areaofficer community.
But, grant, your questionactually reminded me of
something that I wanted to makesure that I brought up during
our conversation, and that isthe SWOTCT, which stands for
Tailored Career Transition.
It is a relatively new program.
We've had it for about a year,a year and a half now, and it is
, I think, a fabulousopportunity for our surface

(43:49):
warfare officers who screen fordepartment head to kind of tee
up a career if they thinkthey're interested in being a
foreign area officer when theycan select to become a
department head.
Get that department head bonus.
Get that leadership experienceof serving as a department head
head bonus.
Get that leadership experienceof serving as a department head.
What happens is in thetransition between their first

(44:10):
and second department head tour,what we do if they're selected
for this program is we trainthem to become a foreign area
officer.
So during that break is when wesend them to NPS to get the
graduate degree, if they don'talready have it.
We send them to DLI to gettheir language training so that
they will have it.
We get them that exposure tothe community.
And so after they serve theirsecond department head tour,

(44:33):
once they're done with that,then they lateral transfer into
the foreign area officercommunity.
So I just wanna I have got acouple of notes here I just
wanna describe like how youwould apply for this TCT program
.
So first of all you must bescreened for department head.
You must be TSSCI eligible.
You must have a minimum scoreon that D-Lab that we talked

(44:54):
about, the Defense LanguageAptitude Battery of 110.
110 is the marker of what we'relooking for to select you as
competitive or having thecapability to learn that foreign
language.
And then the final thing thatyou must do is pass an interview
that's shared by an 06 foreignarea officer.

(45:14):
So after you complete theseries of those steps, then
basically the surface warfarecommunity has agreed that they
will allow you to stay on board.
Complete your department headtours.
Get that excellent leadershipexposure, that opportunity.
Community has has agreed thatthey will allow you to stay on
board.
Complete your department headtours, get that excellent
leadership exposure, thatopportunity.
Because and I don't know if Imentioned this um earlier, but I

(45:34):
I did tell you I work with um,the columbian navy, every single
day.
Every single day here I workwith the columbian navy.
But the people who I reallyconnect with are it should not
be a surprise are the surfacewarfare officers, because when I
go in and I wear my surfacewarfare officer pin, they know

(45:57):
where I came from, they knowthat I've served aboard ships,
they know that I've stood thewatches.
So those are the people who arenaturally my people.
Now, of course, I work withaviators too and I work with
submariners too, but it's reallythose swos that I really have a
close bond with and it's not,it's not by happenstance, it's
because we served in the samecapacity.

(46:17):
So, yeah, it's, it's again the,the foundation of having that
warfare experience.
Um, now we and a disclaimerhere we do have some intel
officers that let all transferinto FAO and they're excellent,
they're wonderful and we do havepeople-.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
No shade to us information warfare types.
Yeah, you'd be okay.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
We do, we do.
However, yeah, it's knowing theNavy, having the experience of
serving in, you know to acertain extent, the more that
you have that more, especiallythose leadership jobs like
department head.
They're just screaming like youknow what you're talking about.
Like, like, like you've earnedyour salt, right?

Speaker 1 (47:02):
So yeah, Classic Swell response.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
I know you can't get it out of me.
You can't get it out of me.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
Oh, I love it, but no , actually just a quick, a super
quick interjection too.
When you talk about workingwith the Columbia Navy, just to
provide again an example of whatyou do in your current job.
Like, what are the initiativesthat the United States is
working with the Columbia Navyon?
Like, is it counter narcotics,counterterrorism, Like, what
kind of what is working with theColombian Navy on?
Is it counter-narcotics?

Speaker 2 (47:29):
counter-terrorism.
What is the mission of what theUnited States is doing in
Colombia right now?
Yeah, Well, those are twomissions that are front and
center in Colombia.
It's kind of like when in Rome,that's what you're going to be
concerned about, but we're also.
So there was a program inColombia specifically called
Plan Colombia.
It was an interagency program.
It lasted from, roughly, Ithink, 2001 to 2011 and beyond,
if you will, and that wasspecifically counter-narcotics

(47:51):
focused.
But we've evolved beyond PlanColumbia.
But I would think it would bedisingenuous to say that, oh,
I'm in the naval mission, Idon't care about
counter-narcotics.
I mean, that's just not true,because you know what the
Colombians care about counternarcotics.
The Colombian Navy cares aboutcounter narcotics.
So of course, that's going tobe something that is front and

(48:13):
center on um, our collaborationtogether.
However, from the U S Navy side, from the U S military side, uh
, strategic competition is superimportant to us.
So what we do is like you kindof get that Venn diagram and you
see, okay, these are theColombian Navy's, you know
important things.
These are very front and centerconsiderations that they're

(48:36):
tackling, issues they'retackling every day.
And then we get the US Navy andwhat we're concerned about and
you look at where we arepositioned globally, you know
geostrategically, you know maybethere's a certain
characteristic about Colombiait's maybe near you know that
really is where the magichappens, that's where our

(49:10):
collaboration really serves thepurpose of why we're here, and
so that's again.
We work in the scenes, we tryto find where those
commonalities are and we focuson what we can do about it.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
It's so darn cool and I guess,kind of like the last piece is
if someone were like trying tobrainstorm this out and they're
trying to figure this out oflike what this decision means in
my life, not just four yearsfrom now, but 20 years from now.
What are some of the common ornormal exit plans for most FAOs,

(49:43):
like do they go work for theState Department?
Do they go work in politics?
Like has there been like kindof a pipeline, like people see,
like, oh, I know, like being aFAO is going to give me the
experience I need to, you know,take an ambassador role to,
hopefully in the future, right?
Like, what are some of thesecommon trends you see with
people, like once they retirefrom the Navy, kind of what the

(50:03):
next phase is for them afterthis program?

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think you know you hit twoobvious ones there.
So State Department isdefinitely something that
foreign area officers you knowthey, you know they might decide
that they're really, reallyinto the interagency.

Speaker 1 (50:20):
In fact they want to be, you know on the other side
of the letter agency,integration and having fun.

Speaker 2 (50:26):
Yeah, that's cool and that's fine, you know.
Another one is, you know,continued public service, and I
think that's I would like to seemore of us, you know, elect to
serve in public service, whetherit's an elected position or not
.
Another thing that foreign areaofficers do once they get out
of, if they retire, they get outof.

(50:48):
If they retire, they get out ofthe service is they might work
for an industry and they mightwork for, you know, one of the
big contractors, or they mightactually work for you know, a
shipbuilding company orsomething, and and they have
absolutely very highly soughtafter specific skill sets that
they can transfer into industry.
So it's really the sky's thelimit.

(51:08):
There are so many things thatyou can do with the skills that
you need to be a foreign areaofficer.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
So cool.
Well, thank you, and just tokind of like phase this to the
last kind of portion of ourdiscussion which I really want
to almost tailor directly to alot of the midshipmen
specifically, right, ifsomeone's listening out there
and there's like a midshipman'slike to a lot of the midshipmen
specifically right, if someone'slistening out there and there's
like a midshipman's like holycrud, like I had no idea one,
this is even an option or like apossibility for me in the
future, or something of the sort.
Right In that discussion to amidshipman who may be interested

(51:37):
in a FAO program, what wouldyou tell them to consider and
like, what advice would you givethem to maximize their chance
of taking advantage of anopportunity like this and what
is in their control, you know,as a midshipman and going into
their young junior officercareer to put themselves in a
spot to be like oh yeah, like no, I know I would love to put
myself in a spot to, you know,become a FAO at some point.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
That's a great question and I want to say I
actually was at the NavalAcademy back in September.
We have a biannual cornerstoneevent where 05s and 06s fares
and above.
And you're reminding me, youasked me earlier about our flag
officers and I did want tomention and give a shout out to
our community.
We are very proud.

(52:21):
We just had our third one starnamed.
It was selected in a board lastweek.
It's Captain Ray Owen, so he'sthe rear admiral select.
We're very proud.
It's the first time ever thatthe foreign area officer
community for the Navy has hadthree one-star flag officers.
So if you're interested inreaching flag, you can do it as
a foreign area officer.

(52:41):
So I want to put that out there.
The second thing I wanted to dowhen I started to talk about
being at the Naval Academy, Iwas just there.
The Secretary of the Navy had asymposium there in September
and I actually got to have lunchwith the squad from 15th
Company and it was super fun wasa midshipman and I think it is

(53:09):
absolutely for the better.
I think it's the better for theNaval Academy, the better for a
midshipman, the better for ournaval officers, and so I would
advise and so I've met a fewmidshipmen who are super
interested in potentiallybecoming a FAO down the road.
So my advice to them is knowingthat we need people who have

(53:29):
that operational experience,that fleet experience, before
they lateral transfer in.
So you don't, you don'tcommission and become a FAO.
You have to, you know, you haveto.
I advise them to, to followtheir heart and do what which
you know.
If that's going submarines,then go submarines.
If that's being an aviation andan aviation you're going to

(53:51):
have a longer career trainingpath and then, mid-career, you
become a FAO.
We have, in fact we have aspecific FAO billets that are
for aviators because we haveaircraft not in every country,
but Columbia has aircraft herewe have C-12s and in order for
our senior defense official andfor our attaches to get around

(54:14):
the country in the more remoteareas.
Then we have FAOs who dual hatas also pilots for those
aircraft and they fly them.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Wait it's for real.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Yes, oh, that's sweet .
We have FAO ballots just foraviators.
So, please, please, if you wantto fly, go fly.
Keep in the back of your headoh, but I might be a say-o too
Keep that in mind but go be apilot first.
Go be a surface warfare officer, go be a Navy SEAL.

(54:45):
Do that and realize that ifyou're approaching, you know
around your, your 10 year markand you think you know what this
, this has been great, which is,quite frankly, what I did as a,
as a public affairs officer.
I did it for a little over 10years and I thought it's been
great.
But I'm kind of interested indoing something else.
Think about the foreign areaofficer career, because it's,

(55:07):
you're, it's amazing, I, I, it'sjust, it's, it's an incredible
career opportunity.
And, yeah, I, I just, I love it, I love it.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Grant it's, it's so cool, and so just to just to
emphasize, because I know theremay be some people who listen to
you talk about this SWO to FAOspecific program yeah, is there
any data to show or support,kind of you.
You know what people may bedrawing a conclusion like, oh,
since there's a tailored programfor this, like I have the best
chance, if I go slow, like yourkind of advice here is really

(55:36):
just do what you want to do inyour warfare community and there
will be opportunity.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Yeah, that is my advice and we don't have the
data yet, but I'm sure thatwe're eagerly waiting to collect
it.
I again, just from you know,understanding the program and
the opportunity it provides,especially from the leadership
side and working as a departmenthead on a ship, I just see, I
see immense potential for thosepost-department head foreign

(56:02):
area officers of rising up tothose flag ranks.
I just I see the potential andI won't be surprised at all If
it's one of the first bash thatwe have.
Who's one of our future flagofficers?
It wouldn't, it wouldn'tsurprise me in the least.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
So cool.
Last piece kind of your story,specifically, is going from a
reservist back to a foreign areaofficer, and so I'll give you
an opportunity to address, like,if there are any reservists
like listening in to thisprogram for whatever reason
they're like, oh my gosh, like Ididn't consider this, what
would your advice be?
Or what factors would you tella reservist to consider whether
that be becoming like areservist fail or the like

(56:38):
switch back to active duty tobecome a fail?

Speaker 2 (56:41):
What do you have?

Speaker 1 (56:42):
there.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
I appreciate the question.
The backstory for me is thatafter I left active duty after
12 and a half years which is alittle bit unusual, but some
people do it After about 18months, I realized that I missed
active duty and I wanted to goback.
But what I didn't know is thatthere really isn't a path to go

(57:03):
back onto active duty.
So how did I do it?
A path to go back onto activeduty.
So how did I do it?
Well, this was a journey for methat lasted almost 10 years in
order to get back on active duty.
And this is something that, nowthat I'm an 06 and I I'm on,
the technical term is called anindefinite recall, which I think
is a misnomer because it makesit sound like I'm still a

(57:25):
reservist, but I'm not.
I'm back on full-on active duty.
There's a few select people whohave been able to.
Basically, to put it in layman'sterms, it was determined that
we had so much skill for theNavy that the Navy needed that
they created an opportunity forus to go back onto active duty.
But it is not a normal pipeline.

(57:47):
It's not like a program outthere, like the TMT, where you
know, yes, this is somethingfeasible for you.
So my call out to the Navy, mycall out to our leadership, to
the VCNO, to our personnel, tothe chief of personnel, I firmly
believe and this is SusannaBrugler speaking, so let's get
that out there but I think, tobest service our Navy and to

(58:12):
best service especially our GenZers, even our millennials, I
think we need to create a morefluid opportunity to on-ramp
back into active duty after youhave chosen to leave and, Grant,
thank you for allowing me togive a plug for that because
it's really something that I amreally dedicated to trying to

(58:38):
make a change because I reallythink it's the right thing for
our Navy and capturing thetalents that the Navy has
already invested in.
So, so, again, that's that'sSusanna, Susanna Brugler's
little idea.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Yeah, I love it.
Well, perfect.
This has been so darn fun of aconversation.
I appreciate you taking thetime to do this.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
I didn't get to drink my water, but I wanted to show
here that I have this alongside.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
The Little Naval Academy mug.
I love it, which is actuallykind of the switch back to the
final piece, which is somethingI ask everyone who comes on the
podcast as well, which is whyshould young men and women?
Again, because we do have alittle bit of an audience of
individuals who are in highschool, who are just interested
in the academy, trying to learnmore about it.
What's your recruiting pitch?
Why should young men and womenconsider a service academy

(59:29):
education?
Why are these things great,great question.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
If you were like me, as a high school student or as a
teenager, and you're dreamingwhat it is that you want to do
with your life.
I wanted to do somethingextraordinary with my life.
I knew that when I was young Iwas driven to doing something
out of the ordinary, but what Ihave found serving in the Navy
has made my life beyondextraordinary.

(59:56):
So you can't dream big enoughof the opportunities that would
be presented to you if you go toa service academy and if you
have any of if you have anydoubts, just give me a call and
let's have like a 10 minuteconversation and I'm pretty sure
you'll change your mind in theend.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
I love it.
I love it Well, genuinely foranyone listening.
If you shoot me a message hereon Academy Insider, I'll get you
connected to Susanna.
We can have those conversationsagain.
I think what's beautiful it'ssomething I talk about a lot is
this power of the ServiceAcademy network and it's so much
more than just business dealsor whatever.
It's kindness.
It's open doors to haveconversations with people who

(01:00:32):
have been so positively impactedby this experience that we want
to get back and share that withthe next wave of individuals
who have that curiosity orinterest in pursuing in these
same paths.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Thank you for doing this, karan, because this is you
, this is what you built.
I love this network and justthank you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
No, of course it's my pleasure.
Y pues gracias por estar aquícon nosotros y compartir tu
historia and everything of theFAO program.
This is so darn cool.
Is there anything you have leftor want to leave with the
Academy Insider audience beforewe wrap?

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
up.
No, I think we've covered it,but it's been a sure pleasure
Con gusto.
I think you have to come backand visit us in Bogota next time
, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
I'm coming, you better watch out.
That's an invitation I willtake up.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
I have an idea to be to Bogota and I would love to do
it, so stand by.
Okay, Bye for that.
Watch out I'm coming, but Iappreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Into the Academy Insideraudience.
Reach out with any questions.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
Thank you so much.
Okay, Ciao.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of the Academy
Insider podcast.
I really hope you liked it,enjoyed it and learned something

(01:01:43):
during this time.
If you did, please feel free tolike and subscribe or leave a
comment about the episode.
We really appreciate to hearyour feedback about everything
and continue to make AcademyInsider an amazing service that
guides, serves and supportsmidshipmen, future midshipmen
and their families.
Thank you.

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#081 Foreign Area Officers - the Hidden Gem of Military Officer Careers!

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#081 Foreign Area Officers - the Hidden Gem of Military Officer Careers!