#085 Supporting Service Academy Grads on the Outside: Why Veterans Make Exceptional Teammates in Any Workplace

Are you a midshipman wondering how to prepare for life after the Naval Academy? Or perhaps you're a junior officer contemplating your next steps? In this episode of the Academy Insider podcast, I sit down with Brendan Aronson, Naval Academy graduate, Marine Corps veteran, and now CEO of The Military Veteran.

We explore the unique value that veterans bring to the civilian workforce and discuss strategies for a successful transition from military to civilian life. Brendan shares insights from his journey, from his time at the Academy to his current role in executive search and venture capital.

Key Takeaways:

• The importance of focusing on being an excellent officer while in service
• How to navigate the non-linear nature of civilian careers
• The power of networking and building authentic relationships
• Why an MBA might be a valuable step for some veterans
• The lasting impact of the Naval Academy experience

Advice for Current Midshipmen:

• Build genuine connections with classmates and alumni
• Embrace the unique opportunities the Academy offers
• Develop adaptability and resilience
• Start thinking about long-term career goals early

Whether you're a current midshipman, a transitioning veteran, or simply curious about the Naval Academy experience, this episode offers valuable insights into the journey from military service to civilian success.

"Your reputation in the military and at the academy follows you. Be a good person to your classmates at all times."

Join us for an honest conversation about the challenges and opportunities that await Naval Academy graduates in the civilian world. Learn how to leverage your military experience and academy network to thrive in your post-service career.

The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.

Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.

He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community with nationwide consulting and connection.

We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.

Connect with Grant on Linkedin
Academy Insider Website
Academy Insider Facebook Page

If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: [e-mail].

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider Podcast.
Academy Insider is a 501c3nonprofit organization that
serves midshipmen, futuremidshipmen and their families.
At its core, this podcast isdesigned to bring together a
community of Naval Academygraduates and those affiliated
with the United States NavalAcademy in order to tell stories
and provide a little bit ofinsight into what life at the

(00:22):
Naval Academy is really like.
I hope you enjoy it.
Thank you so much for listeningand reach out if you ever have
any questions.
Hey everyone, and welcome backto the Academy Insider Podcast.
In today's episode, I'm joinedby a Naval Academy graduate, a
United States Marine veteran andnow the CEO of a company called
the Military Veteran BrendanAronson.
He's a good friend of mine,he's an incredible guy and

(00:43):
today's episode is going to besuper fun because we'll be
talking directly to midshipmenand future midshipmen, but also
to the parents, and just talkingin general about what makes
Naval Academy graduates, whatmakes their transition at some
point, knowing that at somepoint in the future they will be
getting out of the military.
So this is an interestingconversation and topic.

(01:11):
We share a ton of stories aboutour time in the service, what
we've learned in the businessworld and how that relates to
currently actively what's goingon in their time in the military
.
So I hope you enjoy this.
If you have any questions, letme know.
Otherwise, have a great day andhave a great listen.
Thank you so much.

(01:31):
The Academy Insider Podcast issponsored by the Vermeer Group,
a residential real estatecompany that serves the United
States Naval Academy communityand other select clientele in
both California and Texas.
If I can ever answer a realestate related question for you
or connect you with a trustedAcademy affiliated agent in the
market which you're in, pleasereach out to me directly at
grant at the premier groupcom.

(01:53):
You can also reach out to me onmy LinkedIn page, grant for me,
or, and I'd be happy to respondto you there.
Thank you so much, and nowlet's get back to the episode.
Everyone and welcome back tothe Academy insider Podcast,
brandon.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to join us today to
provide a little context to thelisteners out there.
If you don't mind, you minddescribing one a little bit of
your background, of where youcame from, how you ended up at

(02:13):
the Naval Academy, what you didin the Marine Corps and
currently what you're doing now.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, happy to do it.
Thanks for doing this.
Thanks for hosting this podcast.
I listened to a few of theepisodes for doing this.
Thanks for hosting this podcast.
I listened to a few of theepisodes.
I listened to the episode withmy classmate and company mate,
phil Jones.
Just wanted to hear you guystalking.
That was a great episode, soappreciate what you do, grant.
Yeah, so I'm Brendan.
I'm originally from Baltimore.
I was a member of the greatclass of 2012, feisty Goat and

(02:40):
15th Company.
I had an awesome experience atthe Naval Academy.
I mean, I guess enjoying it.
Maybe that's like a strong word, but the friendships that you
make there are like for life,and people have your back
through thick and thin.
You cannot pay for that outsideof just having to build those

(03:00):
relationships, and so it was thebest decision I've ever made.
After that, to your point, Iserved in our beloved Corps.
I was an infantry officer inthe Marine Corps for six years,
mostly stationed on the WestCoast.
I did a couple deploymentsoverseas, spent some time in
Asia, spent some time in Iraq,got out and then, since then,
I've done a variety of differentthings in my civilian career.

(03:22):
I went to business school.
I'm a pretty big proponent ofit.
It's not for everybody, neithernecessary nor sufficient to get
to where you're going in life,but it was a good experience for
me.
So I graduated from the WhartonMBA program, spent some time at
Goldman through a series ofinternships in their investment
bank, so I got a little bit offlavor for finance.
And then for the last few yearsI've been an entrepreneur,

(03:43):
launched a couple of companiessome strikes, some gutters, as
they'd say, as the dude wouldsay, and yeah, that's right.
The most recent company thatI've launched is called the
Military Veteran, which has verycatchy branding.
It's like such an obnoxiousname for a company.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
We love it.
It's clear and concise to thepoint.
You know what it's all about.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
I've never been accused of being creative, so
that's okay.
But yeah, our company helpscompanies hire veterans.
We work mostly with high-growthcompanies.
A lot of our clients areprivate equity-backed businesses
looking to hire generalmanagers, CEOs, so we focus on
folks that are a little bitdeeper into their business

(04:25):
careers as opposed to liketransitioning junior officers.
We do some work withtransitioning JOs, so we work
with private equity backed,venture backed, privately held
companies, primarily on avariety of different roles from
sales operations like businesstype roles.
So that's given me sort of aunique viewpoint into civilian
careers after the military.
And then for the last threeyears I've worked as an investor
at a fund called ContextVentures, which does seed and

(04:48):
pre-seed investments intocompanies that are founded by
military veterans.
So those are high growthtechnology companies.
We also host a slew of eventsacross the country.
We've got happy hours.
We've done them in probablylike 15 cities this year all
across the West Coast, EastCoast.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
We did a Texas tour.
I ran into you in Austin therefor a little bit.
That was super fun.
That was a great event.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Dude, yeah, 100%, and I'm missing that Austin heat
right now because I'm back onthe East Coast.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
I hate to tell you, but yesterday and today it's
been like 65.
And so I was playing pickleballwith my mom yesterday morning,
Nice and sunny.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
It's like dude.
It's like literally 30 degreesand like hurricane force winds
outside my house right now.
I can't relate.
I will survive.
My only goal getting out of theMarine Corps was to not be cold
and wet ever again, so thatreally led itself to Southern
California.
But yeah, anyway, yeah.
So, apart from so, we hostthese happy hours across the

(05:46):
country, and then we do theMilitary Veterans Startup
Conference in San Francisco,which draws like 450 or 500
folks every year.
It's a really terrific event.
It's my favorite event of theyear.
Get a bunch of venturecapitalists, startup founders,
operators, folks that areworking in early stage companies
, folks that are interested inearly stage companies.
And then I'm in the process oflaunching a new fund, not under

(06:07):
the context banner, but it's anational security focused fund
of funds, so I can talk a littlebit about that.
We'll be investing in privateequity and venture funds that
are focused on one of theDepartment of Defense's 14
critical technology areas.
These are areas like AI,cybersecurity, advanced
materials, advancedmanufacturing, space, biotech.
So there's a bunch of thesedifferent industries.

(06:27):
Our goal is to invest in thesefund managers that are investing
in these industries and thenhelp them think through how
their companies can sell to thegovernment, how they can support
the national security missionas both like a value creation
strategy and then also becauseit's just the right thing to do.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
So yeah, that's a 30,000-foot overview.
Yeah, is the thesis in that oneas well kind of like with your
other one military founders?
I assume, just kind of as aresult of the industry that
you're in, there will be a lotof veterans in the space.
But is there anything specificto that in this new fund?

Speaker 2 (07:00):
No less.
So I mean the fund we are goingto donate a portion of our
carried interest now less so.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
I mean the fund we are going to donate a portion of
our carried interest like thankyou so much for listening to
veterans and reach out if youhave any questions.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
Partner for the fund is is a veteran himself,
terrific american and also justsuper, super smart, so there
will be well.
You know, obviously, witheverything that I do is my
life's mission to supportveterans and but you know, in
terms of like context, as aventure fund does really have a
focus on veteran founders, Ithink like% of the portfolio is
veteran founders.
It's not exclusively, but itreally has shaped up to be

(07:30):
primarily veteran focused.
But for the new fund, no, it'snot specifically focused on
veteran fund managers or veteranfounded companies, but rather
like the best investors acrossthese asset classes who are
industry experts in theirparticular industry.
And then our goal is to createa bigger tent, like to pull more
folks into thinking about thenational security mission.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yep, no, a hundred percent.
That was something that wasreally interesting for me,
because when I did mySkillbridge internship I was
with Scout Scout Ventures inAustin, which has a very similar
kind of dual use focus A lot of, again, a lot of investment in
technologies that supportnational defense through
innovation.
Right, it was a fun transitionand shift between like hey, yeah
, I support national defense via, quite literally, my military

(08:11):
service, and then kind oftransitioning and seeing, even
in your civilian world, there'sstill a ton of ways to
contribute and get back and be apart of our national defense.
This time through eitherinnovation or, like in your case
, especially investing ininnovation as well, to like,
develop these technologies andgive people the opportunity and
then well, access, to work withthe military and the Department
of Defense to equip and give ourpeople, who are actively

(08:36):
serving, all the tools that theyneed to be extremely successful
and safe.
Right, and so Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
I mean to build on that for a second.
I mean, there's some reallyinteresting things I see when I
see veterans get out of theuniform.
The number one thing that Ithink I see a lot of people do
is they're like I want to getaway from defense, like I want
to try something different, Iwant to broaden my aperture,
broaden my horizon.
I think that's great.
Yeah, what?
Interestingly, I think I see alot more people move back to
defense later in their careerand I think that that is for the

(09:05):
same reasons that they went toin the first place, which is
like the mission and the people.
You know, when I think aboutcareers and when I give people
advice on, like how to thinkabout their careers, I encourage
folks to think about like, whatare they uniquely talented at?
What do they like to do?
What are they good at?
What can they get paid for?
Right, that's the nature of thework you should be doing.

(09:29):
But then, in terms of like,where you're going to focus,
what makes you different?
You know?
I mean you can try and competewith folks in a domain that is
not necessarily like your domain, like, for instance, if you
transition out and go into, like, an ai focused company, or like
you try and become like an aiengineer, like there are folks
that have gone and studied thatfor like a decade or two decades
Right, but you have built likebrand equity and equity and an
understanding of defense, and soit does kind of make sense.

(09:51):
It's like you have thisexperience.
As long as you can find a roleor a position that is aligned
with what you want to do andwhat your priorities are in life
, and then what you're good at,what you'd like to do and it's
got to have the right peoplethen you can be super successful
in that specific niche 100%.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
And again, you quite literally invest around the
value of vets in the workplace.
A lot of your businesses arebuilt around that, but you also
do a lot of advocating as wellon LinkedIn and other places
quite literally around thattopic and, like you mentioned,
there are a lot of things to doand you kind of mentioned some
separators there.
But do you have also again,lessons that you learned either
at the Naval Academy or in theMarine Corps that you think

(10:31):
really embody and show againwhat makes veterans great
civilian workers right, whetherthat be in the defense industry
or outside?

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Dude, 100%.
Like I mean first of all, Ibelieve in veterans
wholeheartedly.
I mean first of all, I believein veterans wholeheartedly.
I mean it makes sense, likeit's like, you know, it's how I
spend my time.
But I talk to a lot of veteransand like, yeah, man, I'm
convinced.
I think it's really difficultto see when you're in it, right,
because it's like, especiallyif you're like midshipman or

(10:59):
like a junior officer, it's likeeverybody that you know, so you
may think this.
You might think that some ofthese traits are like really
common, but they're not like umdude tenacity, um like keeping a
cool and level head, just likea basic understanding of
stoicism and how to likecompartmentalize some of your
emotional reactions to things.

(11:19):
Those are things that it takespeople a really long time to
learn and they're sort of justtable stakes in the military.
You know, at the academy westudied some of this stuff in
like loose hall.
I think it was right, like theleadership, I think some law
department I'm right on the nameof the bill.
I'm proud of you, you still okay, I'm drilling it here, let's go
.
Okay, um, but like, you learnabout some of this stuff and

(11:42):
then you have an opportunity toput it in practice and like,
dude, it takes people years andyears to develop that skill set
and we just think of it as tablestakes.
The number one thing I thinkthat people learn in the
military is how to be a greatteammate.
That is not like a commonfeature of being a human being.
Like most people, especially inthe United States, especially
today, like we live in a prettylike individualistic society,

(12:05):
people tend to be a little bitself-centered or self-focused,
and all the veterans I come incontact with, their first
thought is like how can I beuseful to you, how can I be of
service to you, how can I helpyou?
And it is really amazing whatpeople can accomplish when no
one cares who gets the creditfor their actions.
And that's what being greatteammates about, that's what the

(12:28):
military teaches you.
So those are just some of thehigh level ones.
But, dude, I could literallytalk about this for this entire
podcast.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Like, no, I think it's super interesting, right,
because, again, one I love thatyou're talking about like the
teammate aspect of it, becauseit's something I like talk about
a ton.
And it feels weird because,again, like you're saying, when
you're in it you sometimes youdon't fully comprehend or
everything that you're, thatyou're going through in the
experience and everything thatyou are building.
But it gives a lot of times wewe associate, you know, like our
sense of service with, quiteliterally, our military service,

(12:51):
like our service to nationaldefense, versus just like this
virtue of service, right, thislike being a teammate and
especially as a role as a juniorofficer, is like yeah, like no,
my marines or my sailors likethose are my guys and gals, like
I'm gonna do whatever I can tohelp them win in life.
Right, like whatever that meansin your specific role or billet
or whatever the case is, likeyour whole life is built around

(13:14):
being a great teammate and beingof service as a virtue, right,
and so like that's somethingthat carries over regardless of
profession, right, it's justbecome part of who you are,
which is so cool, of profession,right, it's just become part of
who you are, which is so cool,and then, like you're saying,
especially the stoicism.
I think probably the coolestthing, especially about my
military experience that I talka ton about, is I got so good at

(13:35):
not caring about things thatare outside of my control, right
, you just get so good in themilitary Again, for lack of a
better term.
Part of the military is therecan be a lot of frustrating
stuff or like things that aregoing on that you just have no
control over, but you just getsuch a great ability and
experience and repetition atjust being like all right, well,
what is in my control, what canI focus on and what can we do

(13:56):
as a team?
Just like again, just focus onthe mission and just keep going
and do like doing the next thingright, and so I mean all I mean
all those things are.
you know, whether you're aMarine, whether you're Navy,
whether you're armed, whateverit is like.
Those are military experiences,Right, and they just carry
across all veterans.
I think it's so cool.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
A hundred percent.
I mean, you embody a ton ofthese, like I've seen it from us
working together and just beingbuddies Like you embody a ton
of these.
You've obviously taken a lot oflessons learned from the
military into your businesscareer, and I think most folks
do.
I would say.
There's a couple other traitsthat I would call out.
One is the most frustratingphrase in the military, which is
message to Garcia.
I mean, if I had a dollar forevery time someone told me

(14:40):
message to Garcia, or justfigure it the F out, you know, I
wouldn't even have to work.
What's?

Speaker 1 (14:47):
so funny is like for me, that one's hilarious Cause
like when I was in it I was likethis is just lazy leaders, like
they don't want to give me anydirection, they're just like,
just just figure it out.
But like when it comes toentrepreneurship, when it comes
to a successful civilian career,the people who can just take a
problem and find solutions andgo create them provide a ton of
value to the world.
Right, and like that issomething that you just build

(15:08):
and it's.
It's interesting because Iliterally saw linkedin post
today from jamie cummings.
He was a naval academy guy, seal, a big-time executive search
professional in the dallas area,and his whole thing was about
message to garcia and like inhis civilian career, how that
that was the number one lessonthat he was just so grateful for
in his world.
Because there there is likeagain when it comes to handling

(15:28):
ambiguity and handling adversityand this idea of just like
again, just figuring it out,like that that's a skill, like
that's a muscle that you have tolike, build and develop right,
yeah, it's uncomfortable forsure but it's like it is the,
it's the, it's the bedrock ofbeing able to be an
initiative-driven person, right?

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Like can't be initiative-driven if you've got
to ask every single thing abouthow to do anything.
So, yeah, that one's a huge one.
I will say, like you know, Iencourage veterans to like feel
a great deal of confidence aboutthe intangible traits that
they'll bring to the civilianbusiness world.
Yeah, the intangible traitsthat they'll bring to the
civilian business world.
Yeah.
But I will also say, like youknow, when I transitioned out, I
think I had, like a prettyunrealistic expectation of like

(16:10):
where I would land or like howmy skill set could be, like
immediately super valuable andlike there is, of course, an
element of reinvention here andlike there's a lot to learn
about business.
So, like, you would never jointhe military and expect to go
straight into, like, companycommand or battalion command or
something like that.
Like you got to learn squadtactics before you can learn
company tactics.
You got to learn companytactics before battalion tactics

(16:32):
, right?
So it's, like you know, in thebusiness world, like you have
all of these intangible skillsthat are super valuable, but of
course, you got to learn thetrade and the craft too.
So, you know I always encouragefolks to think about.
Like you, it's a bit of a tightline to walk as you're
transitioning, because you wantto have the confidence and your
ability to rapidly learn thesethings and the confidence in

(16:53):
these intangible skill sets, butthe humility and understanding
that you probably don't knowthat much about business.
Like dude, when I got out ofthe Marine Corps I couldn't even
spell revenue.
You know, you know and so, likeyou do have quite a bit to
learn.
So it is like a bit of like ayou know you got to walk this
fine line, sure.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
Definitely a fine line to walk there.
And again, just kind of talkingabout the civilian workforce in
general here, as we're talkingabout this stuff, you talk a lot
about civilian allies and thisis big in your business as well
kind of working with some ofthese portfolio companies and
these private equity-backedcompanies.
We do have a lot of executive,civilian listeners and parents

(17:32):
of midshipmen who are in thecivilian world and in some of
these leadership and executiveroles.
How can they be great allies toveterans in the workplace?
As we talk about this andexplain, like, why veterans can
be great value adders to aworkplace, how can they be great
allies to veterans in theworkplace and what does that
even mean?
It's a good question.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
I mean there's all kinds of ways, like you know.
I mean it can be as simple asjust being grateful on Veterans
Day and celebrating the veteransin your life that you know, or
you can go the extra mile.
I mean, dude, like the numberone thing that you can do is
hire veterans, right, Like Idon't think that you should hire
them because it's the rightthing to do or it feels good or

(18:13):
it's charity.
I think you should hire thembecause it's a good business
decision, like they will makeyou money.
So it happens to be one ofthose things where it's like you
just do the right thing and italso happens to be the right
choice.
But yeah, I mean hiring folksor just generally being
supportive.
I mean I don't know, try andget involved in some veterans
organizations.
There's a ton of veteranservice organizations, lots of
really, really great nonprofitsthat are doing amazing work for

(18:35):
our community.
Just get involved in one andmeet some veterans and try and
be of service to them.
Take some time to mentor them.
American Corporate Partnersdoes like this mentorship
program where they pair atransitioning veteran with.
It could be a civilian, itcould be someone that's already
transitioned.
I think most of theirvolunteers probably are
civilians.
That's a really great way toget involved.
Over 50% of Americans actuallyhave no close relationships with

(18:56):
a veteran, and so a lot oftimes, the perspective that
people come at our communitywith is one of just ignorance,
like they just don't know andthey only see what the media
tells them, which is that weneed a lot of help.
And there's like this homelessveteran problem and there's,
like you know, challenges withPTSD, and so I can't even tell
you, like you know, how manyChristmas parties or holiday

(19:18):
parties I've been to where Itell people what I do and
they're like oh wow, likeveterans like PTSD, like is that
what you're working on, are youokay?
Yeah, there's like so manypeople who are just tremendously
talented folks and they mighthave like challenges just like
any other human being, but likethey are super, super capable in
their business careers, and soany way that you, as a civilian,
can interact with othercivilians who might not have

(19:40):
close relationships withveterans and just help them
understand what we're capable ofand what we can do for them,
you know that'll be making animpact.
That's that's being a good ally.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, 100%.
And to bring this back to nowspecifically, kind of the
midshipman or the junior officerexperience and talking about
again that transition out andbecoming a veteran.
And one thing that I harp on aton is that, like when you

(20:14):
choose the Naval Academy, whenyou choose the service academy,
in general it's not a four yeardecision but it's a 40 plus year
decision of all the differentadvantages and shared
backgrounds that we have, thenetwork that we become a part of
as a result of our sharedexperiences and background.
And so, again, when it comes tomidshipmen and military
officers, you know, I think oneof these things that's really
interesting when we talk aboutthese perspectives.
Obviously you and I kind ofjumped into more of an
entrepreneurial route, but thereare a lot of people who kind of
go into, again, more of anormal corporate environment or
life outside of the military.
But those structures betweenthe military and civilian work

(20:35):
can be very different.
And I feel like, again, a lotof times we get used to a really
linear career and this issomething that you talk about a
lot.
Again, you go from 01 to 02 to03 at the two year mark on the
dot, kind of no matter what youdid like you're going to promote
.
It's not like you do your job,promote right, like you kind of
figure it out, and there's acareer like a direct path, right

(20:55):
Of things to do.
That's a little bit differentand so you know as you're
talking to midshipmen or juniorofficer.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
What do these individuals need to start to
adjust in their mindset when itcomes to careers outside the
service and careers becomingless linear in the outside world
?
Okay, well, there's twodifferent questions, or two
different points.
I want to hit on to yourquestion.
One is like what can midshipmenor junior officers do to set
themselves up for success?
And the other one is like howto wrap your head around the
fact that your careers outsideof the uniform are not as linear
.
Sure, I want to address thefirst one, which is like if you
are a midshipman or juniorofficer, the single best thing

(21:37):
that you can do is focus onbecoming a terrific officer,
because that is one of the mostimportant things that you're
going to do in your life, likestraight up, like you are going
to be entrusted with 40 youngmen and women who are excited to
serve, who are, like there forthe right reasons, and so I do
encourage people like be all inwhen you are in that position,
because it's just superimportant and those people need

(21:58):
you and our country needs you.
So focus on becoming anexcellent officer.
That's like, first and foremost, when it does come time to
transition out of the uniform.
We can talk about maybe sometactics or how to think about
the next steps in a little bit.
But I want to address thisquestion of like, linear versus
nonlinear careers, and this is areally important thing, I think
, to understand about thebusiness world.
So I'm really glad that youflagged it.
You are correct, in the uniformit is very linear.

(22:19):
You know, I had a major uh inmy first unit, tell me he just
got promoted to major and I waslike, oh, congratulations, sir,
it's like amazing, you know lotsof hard work.
And he was like he kind of likerolled his eyes and was like
you know, he's like, he's likeBrendan, if you show up right

(22:41):
time, right place, right uniform, like 80% of the time you too
can become a major in the MarineCorps.
But like what he meant by thatis like you know what it takes
to get there.
Like you got to run the PFT,you got to have good fitness
reports, you got to do yourcareer level schools, you got to
like you know.
So there's a checklist of likeand you can see okay, well, if I
stay in at the 20 year mark,I'll be a battalion commander at
the 25 year mark.
If I make it that far, thenI'll do x.

(23:01):
You can kind of like see whatit looks like.
Civilian careers, to your point,are non-linear.
It's nobody wears their rank ontheir collar, nobody wears
their awards and decorations ontheir.
You know, dress uniform like.
So you don't necessarily know,like, where someone sits in an
organization.
You know organizations havedifferent structures and

(23:21):
different ways of likeaddressing people in leadership
positions.
So like a director level roleat a 20 person company might be
a lot different than a directorlevel role at a 200,000 person
company or a managing directorrole, like what is the
difference between those?
An executive director, where dothese guys fall in the
hierarchy, even among similarcompanies?

(23:42):
It's like, well, an executivedirector at JP Morgan is
different than a vice presidentor a managing director.
There is no executive directorat Goldman.
So it can be really difficultto even know where someone sits
in an organization.
And then there are experiencesthat you'll have in your
civilian career that can have asort of stepwise effect on your
career, right.

(24:04):
So I saw, I know, a guy got outof the military.
His very first job he took at ahigh growth company.
It was a payments companycalled Affirm.
He was there for four years.
He started out in like a reallyentry level role and made an
impression on someone and theygrabbed him to come work with
one of the C-suite members aslike a chief of staff and that
gave him more visibility.

(24:24):
And then, during the sameperiod of time, like the company
itself just went bananas, likeit was like going hockey stick.
It was like a tremendous periodof growth for this company, and
so he was like right time,right place, right uniform, with
the right set of circumstances,and that just propelled his
career.
And so, like the resume bulletshe was able to capture were,
like you know, I was in chargeof this organization, which grew

(24:46):
from like you know, two peopleto 300 people in like a two-year
period, and our revenue grewfrom like nothing to you know 20
or $30 million in like a supershort period of time.
And so that just propelled himin a way that other people
wouldn't have been able to do.
No matter how well you do, ifyou go to an organization that's
not growing like thatorganization was growing, you're

(25:09):
just not going to have acomparable experience.
So these civilian careers canbe very nonlinear, and what that
means is that?
Well, it means a few things.
First, you know I alwaysencourage people to evaluate
themselves and how they feelabout the work that they're
doing, not from the perspectiveof the outcomes, but rather from
the perspective of the inputs.
Like, were you making the rightdecisions?
Were you giving your besteffort?

(25:30):
Are you learning things?
Are you growing as a humanbeing?
Because those are the thingsthat you can control.
To our conversation aboutstoicism earlier and if you can
do that consistently over a longperiod of time, the effects of
that will compound.
You'll be a better businessperson, you'll be a better
teammate, you will know more andbe more valuable to your team.
You can't necessarily evaluatesomething just on the outcome,

(25:52):
because there's a lot of luck,timing, serendipity, outside,
exogenous factors that play intooutcomes.
That's one kind of quicktakeaway.
And then the other is, like youknow, you should consider
putting yourself into a positionwhere you can have those kind
of asymmetric returns if it'saligned with your own risk
tolerance and profile.
So, like I hear a lot ofveterans that are interested in

(26:14):
entrepreneurship, I actuallythink it's a pretty bad choice
for, like most people, it's adifficult path as I'm sure you
can attest to quite a bit ofsuffering involved.
But, like, if you can make itwork and you like it and you're
good at it, then that obviouslyis going to have the opportunity
for asymmetric upside.
Your downside is sort of capped.
You can only be so broke aslong as you're not taking out

(26:36):
huge loans or something, butthen your upside could be
potentially unlimited If youhave less risk tolerance.
There are other roles that have,you know, similar, bigger
upsides and smaller downsiderisks.
Sales roles I think are super.
They're great first stops forveterans, like, if you can learn
sales, you could do almostanything in business.
All of business is sales,whether it's hiring, fundraising

(26:57):
.
Obviously selling marketing isjust sales with a microphone,
right.
So, like all of these differentthings are, you know, it is
another career path veteranstend to be very good at because
it requires tenacity, discipline, interpersonal skills, ability
to connect with people, it'sproblem solving and so I am a
fan of that.
But again, it's like it doesdepend on your own risk profile.
So anyway, it's a bit of acomplicated topic and we've

(27:19):
taken this.
I have taken this on a coupleof different vignettes here.
But yeah, civilian careers arenonlinear and that I think can
be really difficult to acclimateto.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
Yeah, 100%.
And to spin off on one of thetangents that you did go down,
which was an interesting thing,which is, again, sometimes it
comes to being right place,right time, but sometimes you're
not in the right place at theright time, especially in an
entrepreneurship path, but insome other paths in general in
the work world, is this ideathat you're probably going to
handle some rejection at somepoint or a failure in the

(27:50):
business world, et cetera, andobviously this is something we
talk about.
In the military, a lot is, youknow, handling adversity.
But how did your time at theacademy or in the Marine Corps
really set you up for, for thatexam Exactly?
Which is the ambiguity in theworld which could be.
There are a lot of factors thatare outside of your control and
handling some of the adversitythat comes with entrepreneurship
and just life in the businessworld outside as well, and what

(28:13):
were some of the main thingsfrom your experience that really
set you up for, for thosefactors?

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I mean a few things like first,when I was coming out of, when
I was at the academy, right, Iwas there from 08 to 2012.
The first half of my time atthe academy, the war in Iraq was
like center of everyone's mind.
I do, I wanted to be a Marine,one of my buddies, the two, so
it's like Iraq, iraq, iraq.
And then the second half of ourtime at the academy it was
Afghanistan, afghanistan,afghanistan.

(28:38):
And then by the time we got tothe fleet, a very small portion
of my class from the academyended up actually going to
Afghanistan.
The rest of us started doinglike the first peacetime
deployments in decades, sure,and so that was that, you know,
caught me flat footed.
It caught me a bit likesurprised.
I did end up doing a deploymentto Iraq, but it was mostly
through just like luck, timingand serendipity, sure, and so

(29:00):
dealing with that kind ofsetback, I think was really
difficult.
Or, like you know, I had thismental model or mental image of
like what my military careerwould look like and I was doing
all the things to prepare myselffor that physically, mentally,
emotionally, spiritually andthen it didn't play out like
that, and so that was, like, Iguess, one experience that just
you know went to sit in the backof my mind and then when I got

(29:22):
out, I expected my civiliancareer to look like they're just
very different than it haslooked.
You know I was.
I figured if I started somethingthat you know, it just I guess
I didn't necessarily fullyunderstand how difficult it
would be and how much time itwould take to build something
that was, like you know, workingreally well and and doing well,
was, like you know, workingreally well and and doing well,

(29:46):
and so being able to rely onthose experiences of like well,
I've gone through situationswhere things haven't played out
exactly how I thought that theywould in the past, and that's
okay, as long as I amcontrolling the things that I
can control and investing inmyself and trying to do the
right things to keep myself inthe fight, that's going to be
super valuable.
Um, yeah, I mean, there's someother things, just like the
day-to-day tenacity that youhave to have to thrive in the

(30:07):
military is, like you know, it'ssignificant.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
So yeah, I, what one question.
Like just in this, in this vein, in this topic, I actually
recently had a you know, afriend from the academy and a
friend through academy insidersubmarine officer, had some
sweet shore tour orders set upand then last minute detailer
hits him up and is like hey,actually just kidding, you're
going to the state of Montana.
And he was like what, what?

(30:33):
And so again like it's one ofthese really interesting things,
but kind of to harp and turnthis even again back to the
discussion, to your point, islike there's going to be, even
even in the military world,there's going to be, a lot of
ambiguity and sometimes you justunlucky, right, I think
sometimes you're just unlucky,but again, like you're saying
and it and it's a weird feelingCause it's it still sucks, like

(30:55):
there's no taking away the factthat it just it sucks, right,
but there is a certain level ofagain response in our industry
where it's like all right, well,what is in my control now and
what do I need to do to againset myself up or open a new door
that likely would have neverhappened as a result of being
here?

(31:18):
And those things happen all thetime in the military.
Like you said again, yourmindset was like hey, iraq, iraq
, iraq, afghanistan, whatever.
And then, like by the time yougot to the fleet, by the time
you got in a position to reallybe at that point of your
operational career, likenational priorities had kind of
shifted a little bit right andso, like that directly affected
your life and your way right.
Like when you're in themilitary.
There's so many factors thatare going to adjust potentially

(31:41):
what you thought your plans were.
And so again like, yeah, it'stough, right, it's tough to try
and navigate, but it's one ofthose things that will just get
you ready for, like we're sayingagain I love the term that
again you use on LinkedIn a lotis this like ambiguity.
Ambiguity in the professionalworld like not set linear career
stuff, like there's a lot ofpieces that are out of your

(32:03):
control and not set nor definedright and so I see it a lot when
people are switching from oneoccupation or one like role to
another.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, like, if you know, when you talk to folks,
talk to some of your buddiesthat are like transitioning into
their new roles or whatever,and you can ask them, like what
was it your plan or was it yourgoal to like get into this
company or this type of role?
And I think it's like prettyseldom that that is the case.
Rather, it happens that likehey, like no, either someone
reached out to me, maybe arecruiter or a buddy of mine

(32:33):
told me I should talk to thisother person who is having a
similar, you know, thoughtprocess, and that may introduce
me to a friend who got me a jobhere.
And it's like I think I feellike this is one of the biggest
parts of growing up is, likewhen I was young, I had like a
plan and a vision for what mylife would look like.
Yeah, and like that is not howthe world works.
Yeah, you cannot predict.

(32:55):
You just can't like how couldyou possibly predict these
things?
Like, when I was born, myparents wouldn't have ever
predicted that I would go to aservice academy or that I'd be
in the Marine.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Corps no one in our family had ever done that.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
And then 9-11 happened and I expressed this
interest in doing this and theywere like, oh, that's different,
we don't know anything aboutthis.
And in business it's the sameway.
It's like you're never going tobe able to plot and plan for a
30 or 40 year career.
But I do think what's helpfulis to maybe have a vision of
like I know I want to get tosome sort of seat or some sort
of thing is really important tome that I want to get to in the

(33:27):
future, but how you get there.
You're going to go back andforth and kind of weave your way
in that direction and so, butyou'd never be able to predict.
You know, I'm going to go workat X or Y or Z company.
Rather, it is like luck, timing, serendipity, the right
conversation at the right time.
So yeah, I think that makes itreally challenging and pretty
stressful for folks as they'recoming out of the military and

(33:49):
thinking about what's next.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
Yeah, and not even to mention like personal situation
.
Right Like along these lines,when I was transitioning out of
the service, I was building myplans around the fact that I was
going to be by myself, rightLike I was going to be a single
person, like going through thisand then, over the past two and
a half to three years, meet thelove of my life, end up marrying
her, and now it's like allthose plans I had that were just

(34:12):
me, that's not how, like you'resaying, that's not how life
works, it's not just me anymore.
And so what I thought my pathwas going to be has shifted.
A lot of this stuff is the samekind of in similar fields or
whatever the case is, but I'vehad to adjust business models.
I've had to account for thefact that, like I'm married back
into the military, right, likewe could change locations.

(34:33):
Now I need to build thingsaround the fact that I may have
to be remote and not around theplaces that I've been trying to
establish business.
Right, like there are so manydifferent factors that go into
this world and there are so manythings that are outside of your
control.
And again, I love that you'retalking about just like luck,
timing, serendipity, whatever itmay be, you know, having the
message Garcia, having to figureit out, the Semper Gumby like

(34:55):
this idea to to move on the flyand adjust to your life
situations or circumstances, butstill directing towards the
path.
Like you said, there's likethere still is an end vision,
there's an end goal that youwant to get to, and knowing that
you may have to adjust path tocontinue moving in that
direction Again, it's one ofthose things that I think makes
veterans back to kind of whatmakes veterans great in the

(35:17):
workplace.
It's like you build that muscleright, you build that skill, a
ton.
And so I want to kind of shifta little bit now is like almost
directly, if you're talkingdirectly to, you know, the
midshipman or a young officer inthis idea of networking, and
one of my big things that I talkabout is like the power of the
service academy network and theand the power of networking.

(35:38):
And you know, I really want todouble down, though.
What I loved about what youtalked earlier, you know, about
preparing for transition, wasactually focusing on your job
and being great at your job.
I think like that piece is soimportant because I think what
people may not see, especiallyas a midshipman, is that in the
military and in the world, rightyou're, we'll call it brand,
but like your reputation iseverything right, and like the

(35:59):
military is a lot smaller thanyou think it is, and the veteran
world and network is a lotsmaller than you think it is.
So if you're aloof, distant, sofocused on the outside world
that you're not taking care ofyour people, like you're already
setting yourself up for failureright At that point.
And there is a massive need.
Again, it's your duty, yourobligation and hopefully your
desire to be of direct serviceto the people who are in your

(36:24):
unit, on your team right To takecare of them and help them
advance and win in life, butthey're all.
Also with that is, there aresupplemental things that you can
be doing, especially around theworld of networking, right, and
so people hear this term and Ithink sometimes people can kind
of get off put by networkingwhere it's like so businessy,
right, like it feels like oh,I'm just trying to get something

(36:45):
.
What would you first of all,how would you like define this
idea of networking and wherewould you encourage young
midshipmen and young juniorofficers to start?
Like what?
What are the tips you have foryoung service members when it
comes to building a network.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
It's a great question You're really just teeing me up
for, like the ones, I know howto rip.
You know, rip out.
It's just like perfect, thankyou.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
That's my thing, yeah , making me feel at home.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
I mean you're 100% correct.
Everything that you said isright.
Like I remember when I went tomy transition classes coming out
of the Marine Corps, they werelike okay, network, network,
network.
And I was like I just was like,okay, I literally don't know
what you're talking about.
Like what, what did?
What do you mean?
Like, and they're like we'lljust like add a bunch of people
on linkedin, right.
I was like, oh, dude, likesuper, like I got that, like

(37:32):
I'll just click, click, click,right, like easy.
And then I wanted to get thislike internship at goldman and
someone was like, hey, youshould talk to a bunch of people
that work there.
And I was like I don't want tolike piss these guys off.
Like I'm just gonna apply, likeI've got like a transcripts and
whatnot, like like that, dude,that is not how the world works.
So you know, I hit a bunch ofthem up.
I started talking to one ofthem and I just like, had you

(37:53):
know, I came prepared with alist of questions and I asked
him one of the dumbest questions.
I was like dude, what?
What do people mean when theysay networking?
I was like what's the point ofthis?
Like, why, why do people dothis?
And he was like, oh yeah, likeI forgot.
Like you know that you'retransitioning on the military,
you don't know any of this stuff.
Like can you just explain thisto you?
He was like, look, he's likewhat you want.

(38:14):
He's like at some point in thenext two months, three months,
me and five or six otherveterans at the firm are gonna
sit in a room with a stack ofresumes and we're gonna go
through and we're gonna say whois gonna get invited to
interview for this job.
He's like what you want is thatwhen your resume comes up and
we're looking at it, you want meto say, hey, I actually talked
to Brendan and he's like apretty good guy.

(38:35):
I think he'd actually like fitin here.
And then what you want ideallyis like three or four other well
, and he's like if you can getthat, then that's like now
you're really cooking withgrease because we're going to
bring you in for an interview.
And that was maybe the firsttime that it kind of clicked in
my head that like, hey, thecivilian world is very different

(38:55):
than the military.
Like in the military,networking is like this dirty
word.
It feels like to your point, itfeels transactional, it feels
like gross and we want to berecognized on the merits of our
achievements and ouraccomplishments.
And the reason that that ispossible in the military is
because everybody goes up on apromotion board, right, like
you're sort of like guaranteedto go on a promotion board, like

(39:17):
your package will be briefed.
You probably, if you stay inthis uniform long enough, you
will know people that are in theroom and you know that's not
supposed to benefit you, but itwill, of course.
Sure, okay, the civilian worldis different because, like
you're not guaranteed to bebriefed on any promotion boards.
No, it's not a thing Likepeople cannot get you a job,
people cannot hire you, peoplecannot promote you if they do

(39:39):
not know that you exist.
Yep, it's like this seems reallyobvious, but that's why people
tell folks to network as to likehow or what networking is.
It's like it shouldn't feeltransactional.
It should be like, try to buildreal relationships with people.
Yeah, and like, yes, of coursethey know when you're reaching
out to them that you can't doanything for them and that you

(40:00):
are probably reaching outbecause you're like looking for
a job, but that doesn't meanthat, like the person on the
other end of the table is doingit for any reason other than to
try and be helpful to you, or totry and be useful to you
because they know what it's liketo transition out.
So it's about building thesereal relationships with people
over time and then making peopleaware of what you're interested
in, what you think that youmight be good at, so that they

(40:21):
can help you.
So networking is about buildingauthentic connections, helping
other people to the maximumextent possible and being open
to receiving their help inreturn.
Most transitioning veterans areterrible at asking for help
because it just feels like weshould be able to message Garcia
, we should be able to figure itout ourselves, and that is not
the case.
You will need people to helpyou.

(40:42):
I guarantee it.
No one ever gets to where theywant to be in life without other
people's help or belief orbuy-in.
It just doesn't happen.
So 100.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
I.
I love your definition againaround relationship building,
building authentic, genuineconnections.
Like this term, networking tome just means building
relationships outside of a placeyou otherwise normally would
have without a little proactiveeffort.
Right, and this is to me.
This is the power of the serviceAcademy network that we're
talking about.
Cause, again, it can feel weirdand like you're saying, yes,

(41:14):
the person on the other sideknows, right, like you're not
going to reach out to themotherwise, but there's a certain
level of like.
We have a shared background, wehave common experiences and,
yes, I'm going to give you 15minutes of my day to talk to you
, right and again, yeah, as theyoung transitioning jail or as
human, human, yeah, they knowyou have nothing to like, add
value to like their professionallife or whatever it is.

(41:35):
Just picking their brain aboutcertain things.
Like, hey, I'm thinking abouttransitioning in two or three
years or whatever the case is,and like what factors should I
be considering?
You're in an industry thatlooks interesting to me.
Can I pick your brain about howyour experience has been Right,
like all these different things, so you can build experiences?

(41:57):
So that way, again, you've hada relationship with this person
and you touch base with themevery once in a while.
So, three years from now, theyknow like back to you're saying
like, oh, no, yeah, like,brendan's just a, he's just a
good guy, right, he's just agood guy and I'm I'm going to
help him where I can, to liketry and do these things right.
It just comes down to theserelationships and if you come
out of the bat, like you'resaying, if you come off the bat,

(42:18):
like first thing you mess withsomeone, you and like it's a
little off-putting, whereas,like, the earlier you start and
again this is my, really my callto action to midshipmen
especially and this is somethingI talk about all the time you
will never have more power in arank than being a midshipman
until you're literally like afour-star admiral, like there's

(42:40):
no in-between.
Like people love midshipmen,dude.
Like you, being a midshipmanmean Like people love midshipmen
dude, like you being amidshipman reaching out to
people, open up a ton, like aton of doors, right.
And so again, your ability tojust pick people's brains, ask
questions, start to developrelationships, be curious, like
literally be inquisitive and becurious.
Again, we're all human beings,even though we've arrived at

(43:01):
this point.
Like people love talking aboutthemselves, but we can pretend
like we don't, but we do, right,and so you know, if you ask
questions about their path inthe military, their path in the
civilian world, any likethoughts or advice or things I
need to be considering, you'recurious about that person and
their life's journey and theirexperience.
Like you're going to start todevelop relationships with
people and people who are goingto have an ability to genuinely

(43:24):
help you as you go on later inlife.
Right, and it's.
It's just like it's one ofthese things and it's the, again
, the beauty of our network,which I believe is that, like,
if you ask for 15 minutes withsomeone who has a degree, like
has that shared background fromthe Naval Academy or from West
Point or from Air Force, likethey're going to say, yes,
you're going to get 15 minutes,right.

(43:44):
Like you're going to get 15minutes at some point and you
just need to take advantage ofit.
You just need to take advantageof it and build those
relationships, cause, likethat's what's going to separate
you in the long run my husband'sgoing to separate you.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, a couple of quick things to add.
Yeah, I don't want to likebelabor, you know, beat a dead
horse here, but like people willgive you 15 minutes for sure.
Just just recognize that folksare incredibly busy in the
private sector when they're more, you know, senior ranks in the
military.
So you might have to likefollow up with them a bunch of
times, which might feeluncomfortable, but just go in
with the assumption that likepeople probably do want to be
helpful to you and it's like notthat annoying if you follow up

(44:16):
with people a lot, okay.
Second, to your point aboutlike trying to build these
authentic relationships when Iwas transitioning out of the
Marine Corps, I asked a lot ofpeople for help in my MBA
applications and people justgave me their time and edits to
my essays and whatnot for free,because it was just they felt
like it was the right thing todo.
They wanted to be useful to meIn the interim time.

(44:41):
Like it's been 10 years sincethat time I have turned around
and tried to help as many ofthose people as I can and like a
bunch of those folks we putinto awesome new jobs, you know,
and they didn't do it becausethey wanted, because they
thought, well, maybe seven oreight or nine years from now,
brendan will end up in thisexecutive search position and
he'll help me get a new job.
Like that's not why they did it, right, yeah, so if you don't
have something to offer someoneat the time, just recognize that
you're going to be swimming inparallel swim lanes for the next
30 years hopefully, so you canbe of service to them 100%.

(45:04):
And the last thing I would addis like you are right, like your
reputation in the military andat the academy, like they do
follow you.
I had a guy talk to one of ourrecruiters about a job yesterday
who was one of my classmates,and she hit me up.
She was like, what do you thinkabout this guy?
I was like he is the nicest guyaround.
I've never heard him say a badthing about anyone.
I love him, he's smart, he'shardworking, he's all the things

(45:25):
.
It was just so easy for me tobe like full-throated
endorsement of this human being.
And so the other great piece ofadvice that I think I would
have to offer is like, be goodperson to your classmates, like
at all times, like they're goingthrough stuff Some of them are
better at some things andthey're worse at other things,
but they're all there for theright reasons.
They're all there because andthey have this desire to serve,
so try and be helpful to themand be a buddy yeah, 100%.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
And again, at the end of the day, we're not perfect.
It's not going to be perfectall the time, but, like you're
saying, if you make a consciouseffort to just be a good person
as much as you possibly can be,again, that's what it's coming
down to.
That's what it comes down toand so I appreciate all that
thought factor there.
And one of the things becauseyou mentioned specifically some

(46:11):
of the essays and things foryour entry into Wharton.
I just want to talk a littlebit as well about MBA program,
because I think this issomething that potentially a lot
of midshipmen may be interestedin as they're projecting into
their future, or specifically,junior officers you mentioned
earlier.
It's neither requisite norsufficient, necessarily, but it
can be a great thing.
Can you just talk about why youthink again, an MBA could be a

(46:35):
good path for a certain type ofindividual or personality type
and what you think the realvalue and benefit is?

Speaker 2 (46:42):
I mean the real value and benefit is the network, and
there's three things thatpeople, three reasons people go
to MBA programs.
Okay, the academics like yougot to learn, like this new
language of business.
And you know I would say thatthat when I went into the MBA
program, my thought process wasthat that would be the most
important thing that I wouldlearn.
That was the least importantthing.
It's a lot of academicframeworks for business

(47:04):
decisions which can be reallyhelpful.
I thought it was actuallyreally helpful from the
perspective of just likelearning from your peers.
You know, I had people that Iwas partnered up with on
projects and they're like yeah,I'm a management consultant.
I was like what does that mean?
Like?
They're like, oh, it means this, it's like well, but like what
does that mean?
Like I don't understand.

(47:26):
So then they would explain itas of them.
The second thing that you'repaying for, the reason to go, is
the network, and everybody saysthat, but it's basically like
an another layer to you know, toyour point, like the Academy
network is terrific.
People answer your calls likethey'll hit your career and so
you can reach out to them andyou have this point of shared
connection that you can.
You know it can be very helpfulto you in your business career.

(47:56):
And then the last piece is thecredibility or like brand
association.
So, like Wharton's, a greatbusiness school, people might
assume that I know anythingabout business because I went
there.
You know little, do they know?
I can't even spell, I stillcan't spell revenue.
But, jokes aside, like you know, the association I think can be
really helpful.
It's also good for folks thatare looking to transition into a

(48:17):
specific set of types ofcareers.
Sure, those programs reliablyput people into jobs in finance,
in consulting, in generalmanagement, and so you know that
if you're interested inpursuing that path, that can be
really helpful.
I don't think it's necessarynor sufficient.
I think you know you're goingto learn more by doing things,
and so if the goal is reallyjust the educational piece, like

(48:40):
you're going to like you don'tlike learn how to like lead
Marines in loose hall you getsome frameworks that might be
helpful for thinking throughdifficult situations.
But you're going to learn howto lead Marines from going out
leading some Marines doing agood job sometimes and bad job
sometimes, and then you getbetter at it over time.
And so business same way.
Right, it might teach you someframeworks, but you're going to

(49:00):
learn more through doing.
For me, I went mostly because Ididn't know what I wanted to do.
When I got out, I had no ideaat all and I just figured it was
like a way to kind of punt thatdecision and feel like I was
kind of marching forward towardssome kind of goal.
And I just like looked at a lotof people that I respected,
admired and they had done thisthing as well, and so I was like
, okay, well, if these peopleare all saying that this might

(49:23):
be valuable to me, then maybeI'll just trust them and kind of
swing for it and go.
And I have found it to beuseful.
But man, there's so many, somany talented people doing
amazing things that have theirMBAs, that don't have their MBAs
.
It's certainly not necessary.
It's not sufficient, it's notgoing to be an automatic.
Gets you to where you want togo.
I see people struggle aftertheir MBA programs.
For sure, you got to show up,do the work, add value and be a

(49:47):
good teammate to people in orderto be successful.
So an MBA program is not goingto teach you how to do that.
It might just give you some ofthe things that could be helpful
to you along the way.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Sure, 100%.
And if you're listening to thisepisode as well, again, by the
time that this actuallypublishes and goes live, we'll
have already published anepisode with Rex Willis, and so
this is an interesting piecehere as well.
Is that like, in order to getan MBA, you don't have to leave
the military, like even anin-person, like full-time
program?
Now, the slots are are lower,they're a little bit limited,

(50:18):
but there are programs like FSEPwhere you can go to business
school while still on activeduty, right, and so, like Rex,
was he active duty right and so,like Rex was, he's a SWO right
before he went to departmenthead school.
You know he got the ability togo to HBS right as a Harvard
business school graduate now andgoing back to the fleet right.
So there are opportunitieswhere you don't have to get out
of the service in order to go tobusiness school.

(50:39):
Again, they're competitive.
They're highly like soughtafter billets and slots, but
again, those opportunities exist.
So that's something that you'reinterested in as well.
I highly encourage you to golisten to that episode with Rex
Willis.
Talk about his experiencethrough FSEP as well.
But, brendan, I appreciate thatkind of again, that breakdown
of like where the real value isand again, that it truly is just

(51:00):
a small piece.
But the onus is still on you totake advantage of everything
that comes with it and theopportunities, the doors that
open, like you need to go and dothose things.
But to start winding this downa little bit in retrospect now
again, obviously you've arrivedat a place of you run a very
successful business.

(51:20):
Now I know you have a lot ofgoals and things that you want
to continue doing, but you'vearrived at a pretty good spot.
Is there anything you wouldhave done differently, either at
the Naval Academy or in theMarine Corps?
Knowing what you know now andknowing that you were going to
transition at some point in timein the military, like, do you
wish you would have changedanything that you had done
during your military career?

Speaker 2 (51:41):
That's a very good question, I guess I well.
Okay, there's a really obviousone, which Grant and I were kind
of, you know, chatting beforewe hit record here, and we're
both suffering from injuries.
So, stretch, do some yoga.
God bless If I could go backand tell myself hey, do yoga

(52:02):
three times a week.
I promise you, this will make ahuge difference.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
I wish I had done that for the last decade
Seriously like.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
You're not serious.
I'm so serious about this Likeand it just sounds so stupid
because everybody told me it andI was like, yeah, whatever like
, and I just never did it.
But yeah, I wish I had done it.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
You know, in terms of like other things, I don't know
.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
when I first got to the academy, I think I had like
kind of a chip on my shoulderbecause I was I think I was the
last dude admitted to my classat the academy, off the wait
list, and so I just assumed thateverybody was like better than
me.
In like a lot of ways, turnsout, I was right they were, but
I think that that put me in likea bit of a weird spot from like
a mental perspective of likefeeling more competitive than I
probably should have.
And so, you know, if I couldchange one thing, I think I

(52:41):
would just maybe be like alittle bit of a kinder version
of myself, both kinder to myselfand just like kinder in general
earlier in my career.
I think I like learned it overtime, but yeah, that's maybe
something that I would have done.
Different is like stretch,stretch, stretch, stretch and
then be kind be just a niceperson.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Like be a nice person nothing and it pays you.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
It's just so.
It's just.
It's good for you, it's goodfor other people, just do it oh,
100 percent.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
I like to me.
It hurts my soul to know too,like you're saying are probably
a couple of relationships likeover my time, that I could have
behaved extreme like in a muchbetter way, right, in a much
better way.
And like it hurts now becauseI'm like damn, like you know,
but as a kid there's a lot offactor.
I mean, really, when you're atthe academy, you're 18, 19, 20
years old, right, like, yeah,you're still not probably making

(53:24):
the best decisions, right, andyou know, if so, here's a bunch
of old guys just like tellingyou as well, right, like, again,
genuinely, just like being agood person and being kind as
much as you can.
Like, there, there's nothingthat's going to be, that's going
to be better than that.
Right, there's nothing gonna bebetter than that.
And, yeah, I uh, yeah, maybeonce you turn 27,.
Stop crossfitting might be my,my advice as well, cause was,

(53:45):
like, again, up to this day,like I still think I'm athletic,
like part of my brain stillcan't comprehend the fact that
I'm not like athletic and I needto warm up and I need to
stretch and I need to take mymobility and joint health
seriously.
I was just trying to do some ofthose silly crossfit pull-ups
and and dislocated my shoulderpretty good and I was like I was
officially.
At that point I knew I was likeall all right, yeah, no, it's

(54:08):
time to shift my fitness routineto general mobility and life
health there.
So that's a good piece.
Last question for you.
Here Again, there are a lot ofpeople as well.
A small subsection of ouraudience are people who are just
interested in the Naval Academyand considering potentially
applying at some point.
For those people and anyone outthere, what would be your

(54:34):
recruiting pitch for why youngmen and women should?

Speaker 2 (54:36):
consider a service Academy education.
I mean, this is so easy.
It's the best decision I'veever made.
Like you cannot pay for theexperience that we had, the
learning and development as ahuman being that we were able to
, like you can only do itthrough by going through it.
And then the best part is youdon't even have to pay for it,

(54:56):
Like it's a fully funded collegeeducation.
So I mean, yeah, and then thenumber one reason is that you're
going to put yourself in aposition where you'll be
surrounded by like-minded peoplewho want you to win, who are
hardworking, they're competitive, they're loyal as could
possibly be, and they will haveyour back for life.
For life, Like, no matter whatkind I've been through the

(55:19):
ringer since I got out.
Like my first business wassuper tough.
Like I have had relationshipsfall apart, I've lost family
members.
Like you know, this is likelife, that's showbiz, you know.
And without question, the firstperson I always go to was my
you know my roommate from theacademy, my best friend from the
academy, my buddies from mycompany, my friends who I went
through TBS and IOC with in theMarine Corps, who were academy

(55:40):
guys.
Like it is the best crew ofpeople.
So, yeah, don't think, Just do,If you can get in.
It's a life changing experience.
It will be difficult.
You will have times that youmaybe are not having as much fun
.
You will not have as much typeone fun as your friends that go
to civilian colleges.
You will have way more lifeexperiences, way more type two

(56:03):
fun.
You will learn way more andyou'll be have an opportunity to
be part of the greatest team onthe planet, which is the Navy
Marine Corps team.
So go wear the Jersey man.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Yeah, I love it, I love every bit of it.
And if people have reallyresonated with this, especially
for any kind of again midshipmanparents or you know, called in
the civilian allies that want tolearn more about the military
veteran or where they couldpotentially work with you or
learn about that, where wouldyou direct them to and what
would be your call to actionhere at the end of this episode?

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Yeah, you can feel free to reach out to me on
LinkedIn.
I'm very active.
I will say my inbox.
I'm not as good about gettingback to folks, but if you reach
out to me I will get back to you.
It might just take a little bitof time.
So you can reach out to me onLinkedIn.
We also have our own podcast.
It's the Milvet Podcast.
If you like this kind ofcontent, we you can.
Yeah, so I mean, finding me onLinkedIn is probably your best

(56:53):
channel to reach me yeah.
And just reach out.
Yeah, I'm happy to be ofservice, like in any way that I
can.
If there's a way that we canwork together in a business
context, I would love to do so.
Or if I could just, or one ofyour kids or whatever, or if
you're in the shipment, jo, justreach out and say, hi, I love
hearing from folks, without adoubt.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Well, brendan, thank you so much for your time today.
I really appreciate it.
Any last words you want toleave with the Academy Insider
audience?

Speaker 2 (57:17):
No, thanks for what you're doing, grant.
I think it's super cool man.
It's awesome to watch you grindand build something really
special of yours, and I'mgrateful for what you do for our
community.
To like hold us together.
Other than that, army Navygames coming up go.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Navy beat army.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
I appreciate it.
Well, everyone listening.
Thank you so much.
If you want to get in touchwith Brendan, you can also reach
out to me and I'll put you intouch with them.
Thank you so much.
Y'all are the best and I hopeyou have a good day.
Thanks.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of the Academy
Insider Podcast.
I really hope you liked it,enjoyed it and learned something
during this time.
If you did, please feel free tolike and subscribe or leave a

(57:53):
comment about the episode.
We really appreciate to hearyour feedback about everything
and continue to make AcademyInsider an amazing service that
guides, serves and supportsmidshipmen, future midshipmen
and their families.
Thank you.