Warning: Today's episode will discuss very sensitive topics, including death by suicide.
In this powerful episode of the Academy Insider podcast, we tackle a crucial yet often overlooked topic: mental health and suicide awareness within the Naval Academy community.
Our guest, Tonia Lott, courageously shares her personal journey following the loss of her son, Julian, a Naval Academy graduate and submarine officer, to suicide.
Tonia discusses her mission to "heal out loud" and her book, "My Beautiful Black Son Died by Suicide." Her journey offers valuable lessons for parents, friends, and loved ones of Naval Academy midshipmen and service members.
We highlight the extensive mental health resources available at the Naval Academy, including:
- Battalion chaplains
- Midshipman Development Center
- Emergency services
This episode serves as a crucial reminder to check in on the mental well-being of our loved ones, especially those in high-pressure environments like the Naval Academy.
Tonia hopes that by sharing her story it will bring awareness to the importance of asking direct questions about mental health and understanding that success doesn't preclude struggles
Join us for this important conversation as we work to create a more supportive and aware community for our midshipmen and service members.
The Vermeer Group is a residential real company matching military families with trusted real estate teams across the country. If you have any real estate questions at all, please text Grant at (650) 282-1964 or email grant@thevermeergroup.com
To stay most up to date with Grant, Naval Academy updates, and real estate insights, follow him on LinkedIn
The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.
Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.
He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that matches service academy families with trusted real estate teams all across the country. Text (650) 282-1964 with any real estate questions.
We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.
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If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: email podcast@academyinsider.com or text Grant at (443) 951-3064
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider Podcast.
Academy Insider is a 501c3nonprofit organization that
serves midshipmen, futuremidshipmen and their families.
At its core, this podcast isdesigned to bring together a
community of Naval Academygraduates and those affiliated
with the United States NavalAcademy in order to tell stories
and provide a little bit ofinsight into what life at the
(00:22):
Naval Academy is really like.
I hope you enjoy it.
Thank you so much for listeningand reach out if you ever have
any questions.
Hey everyone, and welcome backto the Academy Insider Podcast.
I want to give a fair warningoff the bat that today's episode
is going to discuss some veryheavy topics, including suicide.
I'm joined by Tonya Lott.
Tonya's son, julian, was aNaval Academy graduate and a
submarine officer.
Julian died by suicide.
In today's episode we're goingto discuss Tonya's son.
(00:43):
Julian was a Naval Academygraduate and a submarine officer
.
Julian died by suicide.
In today's episode, we're goingto discuss Tonya's creation of
a company called Healing OutLoud, as well as the writing of
her book my Beautiful Black SonDied by Suicide.
We are also going to discussthe resources that exist at the
United States Naval Academy formidshipmen who may be struggling
with mental health, with anykind of health or just any
(01:03):
thoughts that they may be having, because, at the end of the day
, we just want to see ourmidshipmen and our service
members healthy and happy,filled with purpose and doing
their job.
I hope you enjoyed the listen.
I know this can be a verysensitive topic, so please feel
free to stop at any time, but Ijust want to highlight that this
is an important topic that weneed to talk about, which is
what Tonea will touch on in thisepisode as well, as well as
(01:25):
highlight the resources that areout there for midshipmen who
may be struggling.
Have a good listen, thank youvery much and have a good day.
The Academy Insider Podcast issponsored by the Vermeer Group,
a residential real estatecompany that serves the United
States Naval Academy communityand other select clientele in
(01:47):
both California and Texas.
If I can ever answer a realestate related question for you
or connect you with a trustedAcademy affiliated agent in the
market which you're in, pleasereach out to me directly at
grant at the Vermeer groupcom.
You can also reach out to me onmy LinkedIn page, graham
Vermeer, and I'd be happy torespond to you there.
Thank you so much, and nowlet's get back to the episode.
(02:07):
Hey everyone, and welcome backto the Academy Insider Podcast,
tania.
Thank you so much for takingthe time out of your day to come
talk to us about this topic and, if you don't mind, just giving
a quick introduction andbackground about yourself and
your relation to the NavalAcademy for our audience.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Well, thank you so much, Grant, for having me.
My name is Tania Lott and I amconnected to the Naval Academy
because my son, julian Brown III, is a graduate of the Naval
Academy in 2019.
And I could not have been moreproud of Julian.
When he graduated, heimmediately went off to
(02:45):
Submarine Nuclear EngineeringSchool in Charleston, south
Carolina, and he graduated inthe top I believe 5% of his
class, which was really.
I was proud of that.
But it was mandatory for thattop percentage to go to Norfolk
Virginia and we live inBaltimore, maryland, so Norfolk
(03:07):
Virginia did not sound veryexciting for him.
So he wasn't necessarilyexcited about being so close to
home.
He wanted to really experiencegoing away, but I thought it was
great because he would becloser to me.
But, yeah, he was quicklypromoted.
He got the title of Officer 3,level 3.
(03:30):
And he actually was asupervisor over a crew of a
recently commissioned sub SSN796.
9796.
So very, very proud of Julianand thought he was achieving
wonderful things and he wasalways just really popular, had
(03:52):
a lot of friends, and I foundout on August 15th 2023, that I
lost him to suicide without everknowing he was depressed.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, it's a very difficult topic and I just
appreciate you again beingwilling to do this, and part of
this is in your overall mission,which you've articulated, to
heal out loud, right, and toshare your story in a
therapeutic way, but also tohelp give back, especially in
this community, where there area lot of really high performing
individuals right, and this isgoing to be a conversation that
(04:31):
you wrote about in your book,but today as well, is our role
as family and support and justscience to look at when someone
is extremely high performing andthey have a lot of friends, and
there's a lot of things thatcan be extremely difficult.
In that, and I do just want toask, before we even jump into
some of the topics of today, is,again, for anyone who hasn't
(04:53):
seen the book, again, I have itright here and I encourage you
to check it out my beautifulblack son died by suicide.
Do you mind?
What sharing that led you toactually write the book right on
On this pathway of healing,what led you to actually write
this book?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So initially I was just so confused Again, not even
knowing he was depressed.
This was extremely shocking.
Not that any parent can ever belike, oh okay, I knew my child
was depressed, it's fine.
But there is another layer.
(05:33):
When you think your child isextremely happy and the joy of
everyone's life to lose them inthis way, it is a shock to your
entire system.
So I started to journal forselfish reasons, trying to
(05:55):
figure out how I missed this andtrying to reconcile was I a bad
mom because I missed this?
So my journaling were justtrying to figure things out.
I went through old textmessages with Julian, just again
(06:16):
trying to figure out how Imissed this, and I received a
message.
One day I woke up and said youneed to write a book.
A message.
One day I woke up and said youneed to write a book Because
there's a lot of stigmasurrounding depression, mental
(06:37):
health and definitely suicide.
And I fell into that stigma.
Or seemingly happy, joking,popular, successful me, thinking
that that means they can'tsuffer from depression is a
stigma.
It's ignorance and notunderstanding that someone that
(07:01):
is achieving things and is goodat certain things and is always
popular and is funny does notmean they are struggling and
just not sharing it with others100%.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
And speaking of that sharing, can you tell us a
little bit about yourrelationship with Julian growing
up?
Was there ever kind of a lackof sharing growing up, was there
ever kind of a lack of sharing,or I think you wrote in that
book that you guys' relationshipwas extremely close and he told
you everything.
Is that correct?
And do you mind explaining justa little bit of your
relationship with Julian as hewas growing up as a child?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah.
So Julian and I were extremelyclose.
I've always been open as a momwith my kids and talked about
all the things that I thoughtwere important.
Again, we I myself and Julianas well born and raised in
Baltimore City, so as a Blackmom of a Black son, one of my
(07:59):
biggest concerns for him wasalways the street violence and
making sure that he was safe.
So the things that we talkedabout were things that I deemed
important.
We talked about keeping a coolhead and not getting into fights
.
We talked about the importanceof understanding how to be
(08:22):
compliant if you're pulled overby a police officer.
We talked about his creditscore.
We talked about safe sex.
We talked about all the thingsthat I thought were extremely
important, and Julian was prettyopen.
He almost overshared when Italked to him.
(08:43):
So when I thought it was time tohave the sex talk.
He was like oh yeah, I boughtcondoms already, I'm good.
So I was like what, what do youmean?
You're 13 years old, so hedefinitely would talk.
When I opened that door and I doregret that I never even when
(09:09):
he went through traumaticsituations I never said wow,
julian, this seems really heavy.
Have you thought about talkingto a therapist?
I regret asking him have youever thought about hurting
yourself?
Or, you know, have you everbeen so sad that you've thought
about hurting yourself?
Or, you know, have you everbeen so sad that you've thought
about that?
I think these are things, asparents, that we need to be more
(09:35):
open about.
Just like I wasn't afraid totalk about sex, I didn't think
that meant he was going to goout and have sex just because we
talked about it.
I also think that, as parents,we need to ask our young adults
because, again, at the NavalAcademy and at the time that I
lost Julian, he was 20, 25 yearsold, so he wasn't a little kid
(10:00):
anymore, he's a young adult, butI am still his parent and I do
regret never asking him.
How was his mental state?
How was he really feeling andwhat was he really thinking?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
You mentioned kind of not checking in on his
potentially on his mental state.
Were you able to experience orsee anything in a shift during
Plebe's summer or during theNaval Academy, or how was his
overall demeanor while he was amidshipman at the Naval Academy?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
So good question.
I definitely remember Plebe'ssummer, his letters.
He would say, oh, it's hard.
But then he would immediatelysay, but overall is, but overall
it's so easy.
He would mention one thing thatwas hard.
I just looked through all ofour letters, which I was so
(10:53):
grateful that I saved all ofthem.
But he mentioned trying tomemorize everything was so hard
and so stupid, like he felt itwas dumb.
But then he follows up and says, but everything else, I'm
killing it and tell everyoneit's as easy as I thought it
would be.
So he would say something hestruggles with but then kind of
(11:15):
makes a joke about overalleverything and I think that that
was his way of masking that hereally may have been struggling.
I also remember when he camehome because it was towards the
end of plebe summer when he wasable to come home, for it wasn't
even a weekend.
He just came home for a familydinner and then he had to go
(11:36):
back.
His dad took him back.
I didn't ride with them and hisdad shared with me that he
cried on his way back and saidhe really just wanted to stay
home.
He didn't want to go back.
It was really tough.
So he did share that with hisdad.
(11:57):
Looking back on it, julian didnot 100% just openly share with
me when he was really struggling.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
He shared with other people Like I didn't even know.
Julian was stressed.
I did notice that he started tokind of distance himself and he
seemed busier than usual.
And I did ask him.
I said, julian, you know what'sgoing on.
It doesn't seem like you'rereplying to my texts like you
(12:28):
usually do.
And he said, mom, I'm just sobusy.
And I thought that was, youknow, a reasonable answer.
He's working on a submarinewhere he can't necessarily
answer text messages Sometimeshe was working really long days.
So I was just like, oh yeah,he's busy, makes sense, and
didn't question it anymore,where I wish I would have said
(12:53):
are you sure you're just busy orare you going through something
?
Are you struggling?
Is it?
Are you stressed?
I wish I would have peeled backthe onion just a little bit
more and not just assumed that,oh well, he's 25 years old, he's
grown, he doesn't need hismommy checking up on him.
I wish mommy would have done alittle more checking in.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, it's a really tough situation.
It's near impossible to be inthat spot for you and as a
parent, because he is busy,right, he is extremely busy, and
life on a submarine is it'salmost never ending, right, like
it's just, it's constant.
And so I just I think that'sit's extremely difficult because
you don't want to beoverbearing and these are these,
(13:37):
these tough situations.
And then on top of that,there's another factor kind of
mixed into it, which I do wantto talk about because it's
something you mentioned a lot inyour book.
Is this idea of the mask ofsuccess right?
Because, at the end of the day,julian, he was great
academically, he was top of hisclass at the nuclear power
school, he had purchased twohomes at his different duty
(13:58):
stations, like, not only in awork sense but in a life sense,
he had all things seemingly verysuccessful.
And so, from that perspective,how did you again, how do you
start to realize it andretrospectively think back on
this again, this mask of success, and not taking everything at
just the face value of what itlooks like?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah.
So hindsight, for me it stillisn't 2020.
There are still some thingswhere I'm like I just don't
understand that.
However, there were signs rightthe last time we FaceTimed, his
girlfriend had the phone whilehe was driving and Julian did
(14:45):
not look at me.
He never leaned over and said"'Hey Mom".
I heard him speaking, but henever looked at me.
That was a sign.
And I remember feeling Juliandidn't even I didn't even see
his face and I kind of brushedit off like, well, he's driving,
but he wasn't that safe of adriver.
(15:08):
He could have leaned over tosay hello.
That was a sign.
I also remember thinking it wasstrange that he and his
girlfriend were.
I FaceTimed him, which Inormally don't just FaceTime
without texting first, but wewere at my mom's, we were
telling a funny story and Iwanted to FaceTime him to see if
(15:30):
he would pick up and he did.
And I find out he's in Atlantawith his girlfriend going to a
Beyoncé concert.
And I remember thinking, wait aminute, what you didn't tell me
and my husband to come join you.
He knows I love Beyonce and Iwould have gone to Atlanta.
(15:51):
We could have gone to theconcert together.
I remember thinking that's weird.
Not only not just that hedidn't ask me, just that I
didn't know.
Like that wasn't.
Like Julian, we shared likeeverything, especially exciting
things, like guess what, I'mgoing to Atlanta to see Beyonce,
(16:11):
like that's.
So I just remember thinking,wow, he's really growing up,
like he's not even telling mewhen he does stuff.
But that wasn't it.
He was.
This was the week he.
I lost him on August 15th,which was a Tuesday.
(16:34):
This was the Saturday beforethe Tuesday.
He was trying his best to havea good time with his girlfriend,
but he could not face me.
I think he was struggling thatbad where he couldn't face me.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And then the last time he came home, which was in
July July 7th for mygranddaughter's birthday party,
I remember him always when hecame home he would go out with
his friends and for whateverreason he was just so tired he
took a nap and when he woke up Isaid so you're going to go hang
(17:20):
out?
And he said, no, I'm just goingto go back home.
And I was like what?
But I just remember thinking,oh, because he surprised us when
he came home.
It's almost a four-hour drive,maybe he's just tired, maybe he
works so hard.
But those were signs he wasn'tjust tired.
(17:42):
His personality had changed alittle.
He, his personality had changeda little.
The text messages were fewerand far in between.
His connection to me was off.
His connection to his friendsnot wanting to visit his friends
was off.
So there were some signs he hadshared with everyone else but
(18:04):
me that he was so stressed.
He was very stressed.
He just told me he was busy.
He never shared.
He was stressed.
But if all of us as a familywould have sat down to say, hey,
what has Julian shared with you?
It would have come out that heexpressed how stressed he was.
(18:24):
He was very short-tempered,more than usual, even with his
dogs.
He had lost his temper with oneof his dogs.
That was not Julian.
He was really struggling.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, and how do you navigate the after of this
situation and how do younavigate the after of this
situation?
Again, you mentioned multipletimes that these things and now
and telling these stories andjournaling and writing a book
have been a source of likeprocessing what happened.
How have you processed thisgrief and how do you continue to
(19:03):
heal through this process?
To heal through this process?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
That's a good question, grant, because I'm
still I'm very new in my griefjourney.
It's been it was a year inAugust.
I have come up with the termand actually started a company
called Healing Out Loud, and thereason for that is because I'm
(19:29):
trying so hard to break thestigma surrounding mental health
, depression and suicide and indoing so, it's helping me heal,
because I recognize now that,even with all the information in
(19:50):
the world, I still may not havebeen able to stop this.
Sure, I do believe that havingmore information, having more
understanding, would have beenhelpful and could have stopped
it.
But I try not to do the woulda,coulda, shouldas, because I did
(20:12):
the best that I could with theinformation and the knowledge
that I had.
So I had really tried to.
I'm turning my pain from losingthe most amazing son I could
have ever asked for.
I mean truly, julian was a joy.
(20:32):
Some people, you know, theylove their kids but they don't
really like their kids.
I really like my kids and Ireally enjoyed everything about
Julian good, bad, ugly, whateveryou want to call it.
The only thing I would havechanged is how I lost them,
(20:53):
right.
So I'm healing out loud in hopesof sharing my story because if
I fell into the stigma that oh,of course he's not depressed,
suicide's not even on the tablefor us to discuss because look
at all his accomplishments Iknow that if I fall into that
(21:15):
stigma, other parents and otherpeople fall into that stigma as
well.
And not knowing that you haveto check in on mental health,
even if you don't think yourperson is depressed, it's still
something to check in on mentalhealth.
Even if you don't think yourperson is depressed, it's still
something to check in on.
So my Healing Out Loud journeyis hoping that I can help people
(21:38):
understand how important it isto check on our loved ones'
mental, regardless if we thinkthey're depressed or not.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, and in your learning and discovery of this
process, what does that looklike?
Like what questions should beasking?
Is it as simple as just quiteliterally asking a direct
question like how is your mentalstate?
Or what things you know inretrospect and conversations
you've been having with you?
Know your folks in the cornerwith you kind of going through
(22:10):
this process?
What questions like were youwishing that maybe you would
have asked in those moments?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah.
So I did a panel discussion ata woman's summit on Julian's
birthday it would.
He would have been 27 onOctober 22nd and during that
panel discussion we did a Q&A atthe end and there was a lady in
the audience who said her dadwas a psychiatrist and it was
(22:38):
normal practice growing up inher home for her dad to say well
, you're not thinking abouthurting yourself, are you?
Whenever they discussedproblems that they were having
as kids, she said it was justnormal about hurting yourself,
are you".
Whenever they discussedproblems that they were having
as kids, she said it was justnormal.
And I think that it needs to benormalized to ask the people
that we love if we see ifthey're in a stressful
(23:03):
environment, which the Navy, itcan be very stressful.
I think it's important to sayare you sure that you're just
busy or is there somethingdeeper going on?
Are you really stressed?
If they say yes, I am terriblystressed.
(23:23):
I think it is so important tojust follow up and say you're
not thinking about hurtingyourself, are you?
Or have you thought abouthurting yourself?
Actually the latter have youthought about hurting yourself?
Don't say you're not thinkingabout hurting yourself, are you,
because that kind of impliesthat they shouldn't be thinking
that you just want to just askhave you ever thought about
(23:47):
hurting yourself?
Are you in?
Are you so stressed that you'vethought that you just can't go
on anymore?
Ask the question.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
And most people that are in that much pain can't lie
about it can't lie about it,sure, sure, no.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That makes sense.
And from your perspective again, I think this is I, just, I
just I feel so sorry for you isagain.
You've mentioned a couple oftimes like it was.
It was tough because you putyour pride and identity in in
being, in being a mother andbeing there for him and you wish
you could have changed thesethings and you even asked
yourself the question like did Imiss something?
Is it my fault?
(24:34):
And somehow, how have you goneon your journey of silencing
that inner critic and just kindof loving and taking care of
yourself after and through thisprocess as well?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
care of yourself after and through this process
as well.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, so you really read that book, huh.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Thank you, grant.
I read it.
I read it through and through,through and through, thank you.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
So I learned I've alwaysconsidered myself a pretty
confident person, but I learnedthat most of my confidence was
based off of my kids' success,which is not true confidence and
(25:17):
it's not true happiness to baseyour happiness based off of
your child doing well in life.
Because once this happenedbecause that was my entire
identity I felt like I wanted todie.
How could I go on living whenmy son was this unhappy for the
(25:41):
result to be his death?
So I really had to pull myselfout of a really dark, dark, dark
era in understanding that I amstill a good mom In spite of
this.
Julian was still an amazingperson.
(26:03):
The fact that he lost hisbattle and it ended in suicide
does not define the man that hewas, does not define the mother
that I still am.
I also realized that we onlyfeel about things based off of
(26:23):
the stories we tell ourselves,and there was a point that I was
telling myself well, obviouslyyou were a horrible mom because
you missed this.
Well, I started to realize thatmy brain was doing the worst
case scenario, saying yes, youwere a bad mom because you
(26:45):
missed this.
I started going through textmessages and seeing Julian tell
me mom, thank you so much.
I can always depend on you ifhe asked a question or needed
something.
So I was like this doesn'tsound like a bad mom.
It sounds like I was a prettygood mom.
It sounds like my son knew hecould depend on me but for
(27:10):
whatever reason, he didn't wantthis burden for me.
He felt like he could handle it.
So I started telling my stories, telling myself a different
story.
Rather than going to the worstcase scenario, I started
painting a more positive picture, because I don't know the 100%
(27:35):
truth.
So, rather than going to theworst case scenario, I just
started telling myself the bestcase scenario to give myself the
will to live, to survive thisunimaginable loss.
And then I also felt like itwas my duty to try to make sure
(27:55):
that other parents don't sufferthis same type of loss.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Absolutely, and you've kind of dubbed that as
this idea of healing throughawareness.
And you told stories againabout the concert in Atlanta
with Beyonce and some of theseother factors.
What are these signs?
More or less that again you'vegrown to learn and seen in
retrospect that parents shouldbe looking out for, whether
(28:20):
direct or indirect.
You kind of gave examples ofhow it directly related to
Julian, but how would you kindof more broadly describe some of
these things that they shouldbe paying attention to as as
best they can, as they'refiguring this stuff out?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, definitely pay attention to change behavior.
If you feel like your child isautomatically replies to a text,
if they just start saying, okay, if they, you send them a text
and you notice they don't evenlike it.
Or if they only like it anddon't say anything, and they
(28:58):
usually say something.
Those are changes in behavior,especially these days and times.
You know days and times youknow younger people that texting
is a lifeline.
So if the communication changesthrough that lifeline, that is
a huge sign and you should digdeep to find out why that
(29:19):
changed and don't take I'm busyas an answer.
Ask more questions to determineif it is it really because
they're busy or if it's becausesomething else more, if they
have more burdens that are goingon that they're not sharing at
that moment.
(29:41):
No, absolutely on ourhigh-performing kids because
(30:04):
they don't want us to feel, ifthey have a mental struggle,
that we wouldn't be proud ofthem.
So it's extremely important tounderstand, when we're telling
our kids how proud we are ofthem, that we also are a safe
space to let them know mentallyif it's ever too much All these
(30:30):
things that we're proud of withyour accomplishments at the
Naval Academy or whatever theydecide to do after the Naval
Academy.
Whatever they're doing, we needto let them know If it's too
much.
You need to let me know.
If mentally you can't handlethis, it's okay, we're going to
(30:51):
figure out your next steps, itwill be okay.
I wish I would have shared thatwith Julian that in any branch
of the services, if you'rehaving severe mental issues and
you say you're, you havethoughts of suicide, you're
(31:13):
going to be discharged andthat's okay.
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, no one one 100% .
And again, just in specificrelation to the Naval Academy,
I'll kind of again jump in.
If you're a parent and you knowyou're worried in any little
way, again, there are so manyresources and you're not sure
how you would handle aconversation like encourage as
(31:43):
well your son or daughter topursue some of the resources
that exist on the Naval Academycampus, because they are
extensive.
Every single battalion on theyard inside of Bancroft Hall has
a chaplain assigned to them whohave this grief counseling and
counseling training behind themas well.
There's the MidshipmanDevelopment Center, which is a
(32:04):
full staffed, from actual traumaresponse, psychology, every
kind of aspect of mental health,even down to sports performance
and nutrition it ranges thewhole gamut and they have
emergency services.
There are so many ways at theAcademy for Midshipman to go
(32:26):
seek help, right, and so for youas well and on Academy Insider
we'll continue to talk aboutthese resources, just so you're
aware and utilizing the correctterminology, to potentially
again recommend or encourageyour son or daughter to seek
those If you are noticing someof these signs that are making
you again question ifeverything's okay, right.
(32:49):
And so again, I just want totake this time to let the
audience who's listening knowthat there's so many incredible
resources at the Naval Academyas well to help when things are
starting to trend in thatdirection or just become
extremely difficult, rightBecome extremely difficult.
And so you know you hadmentioned to me that it was like
(33:10):
this last piece of like I wishI would have.
You know, maybe I wish I wouldhave done something different or
I wish I would have done thishow have you forgiven yourself
and kind of what are youcontinuing to do in this idea of
turning lessons into blessingsand how has that journey been
for you?
And continuing, like youmentioned, trying to share the
(33:32):
word and spread this informationso no one else has to
experience this?
What is this last phase of thisjourney been for you in doing
that?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, so for feeling like I missed this.
I think I forgave Julian firstand then myself second.
And forgiving myself was veryhard because, you know, we're
(34:03):
hard on ourselves and that'swhere the journaling came in.
There were other people I hadto forgive as well, because this
blew our families up, like youknow.
It was just a lot of trauma anda lot of people were just so
confused and it caused a lot oftrauma.
So once I forgave myself, itmade it so much easier for me to
(34:29):
forgive other people Because,again, it was hard to forgive
myself.
It easier to recognize thehumanity in others and trying to
navigate what Julian's lossmeant in their lives.
(34:52):
And as much as I would love tosay as his mother, my pain
outweighs everyone else's painand it really does.
But I do know that others lovedhim immensely Siblings, cousins
(35:15):
, aunts, grandparents.
Julian was extremely loved.
So when you're in pain anddealing with trauma, you don't
necessarily you don't always acta hundred percent the way you
(35:36):
would like to act.
I know I do.
I did some things that I'm nottoo happy about.
So, yeah, forgiving myself waseasy or was hard, and then
forgiving others was a littlebit easier and through that
forgiveness I showed it camewith a lot of gratitude.
(35:57):
So gratitude and forgivenesskind of went hand in hand for me
.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Sure, Absolutely Well .
Thank you again for sharing allof these raw emotions and
aspects related to the situation.
If there's someone listening tothis right now and they want to
find you or reach out orpurchase the book, where would
you direct them to go in orderto again hear more about the
(36:26):
story or reach out to you ifthey're needing support as well,
or guidance, or just want totalk?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
So I do want to say I do want to explain the name of
the book.
So you mentioned it earlier myBeautiful Black Son Died by
Suicide.
I named it such an my beautifulBlack son died by suicide.
I named it such an in-your-facetitle because when I first
suffered this loss I ran to abereavement group that dealt
(36:56):
specific to suicide.
I did several groups and I wasalways the only parent that lost
their child of color and itfelt very lonely for whatever
reason, and I didn't have anyonethat I knew that looked like me
(37:17):
that suffered this type of loss.
I realize now that in the Blackcommunity we do suffer loss from
suicide.
We just don't talk about it.
So I wanted the book to benamed a title where another
(37:38):
Black parent would know oh myGod, somebody else suffered this
same type of loss.
But it's not just for the Blackcommunity.
The book can be found right nowonly on Amazon.
And it's not just for someonethat has someone that they think
is depressed, it is also forsomeone that thinks they know
(38:02):
everything about what depressionlooks like.
It's definitely.
I try to be very, very specificon Julian's personality and how
wonderful he was, for selfishreasons, again, trying to
explain how I missed it right.
But I also do go into some verydeep details on the signs that
(38:26):
Julian did display that myselfand others missed, and they are
like textbook direct signs orindirect signs of what severely
depressed individuals display,characteristics that they
display.
(38:46):
So if you're interested inbuying the book, it shows
Julian's picture beautifulpicture because he is beautiful
and I used to always say when Iposted on social media oh my
beautiful black son.
So the name came kind ofnatural for me.
(39:10):
But I do encourage parents thatwant to really dig deep, and
definitely for parents at theNaval Academy, because it is so
stressful and you want to findthat balance of making sure your
kid is okay but not being toomuch of a burden, but
understanding when there aresigns.
(39:31):
So for anyone that isinterested in purchasing the
book, it can be found on Amazonright now.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Fantastic.
Thank you, and is thereanything that you would like to
leave the Academy Insideraudience with on top of what
you've already mentioned?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
One of the main focuses that I have, or main
focus that I have, is makingsure that everyone knows we no
longer say committed suicide.
It's important for me to stressthat because committed you
(40:13):
commit murder.
You don't commit suicide.
My son loved life.
My son loved me.
He would not have intentionallyleft me with this hole in my
heart.
He knew how much I loved him.
Sometimes he would say, mom,you're obsessed with me.
(40:35):
He knew I was obsessed with him.
He would not have purposelydone this to me.
So when you are suffering from amental illness, your mind plays
tricks on you and you can'tthink of anything else other
than ending your pain.
(40:56):
So it's not something youcommit.
We say loss by suicide or diedby suicide, but I definitely
would love for all of youraudience to recognize that and
try to change that terminology.
It does make a big differencefor people that are having those
(41:17):
thoughts to feel a little morelike it's a safe place to not
use that term and it definitelymakes the survivors of suicide
loss feel a little more acceptedthat you don't think our loved
ones did this to us in a selfishway, because it's not about
(41:38):
being selfish.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
Thank you so much for takingthe time to join us today and
share this story and again, justheal out loud and, you know,
just put this in the air forfamilies at the Naval Academy as
well, just to be consideringthis.
So thank you so much for yourcourage, your strength, your
kindness to do this and wereally, really appreciate you
(42:01):
appreciate you no, I appreciateyou, grant for recognizing this
is such an important topic.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
It's not a fun topic, but it is an important topic
and I thank you so much forrecognizing that.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Of course, it's my pleasure.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
And again to the AcademyInsider audience, feel free to
reach out If there's everanything that I can do for you
and help educating about theresources that exist at the
Naval Academy and in the Navyand Marine Corps to help in
these situations as well.
Please, please, please reachout.
That's the goal of this rightis to get awareness out as well,
(42:37):
just to have these discussions,like you mentioned, it's not
fun, it is important.
So, thank you so much, I reallyappreciate it.
And to the Academy Insideraudience, I hope you have a good
day.
Thank you so much, I reallyappreciate it.
And to the Academy Insideraudience, I hope you have a good
day.
Thank you so much for listening.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of the Academy
Insider podcast.
I really hope you liked it,enjoyed it and learned something
during this time.
If you did, please feel free tolike and subscribe or leave a
(43:00):
comment about the episode.
We really appreciate to hearyour feedback about everything
and continue to make AcademyInsider an amazing service that
guides, serves and supportsmidshipmen, future midshipmen
and their families.
Thank you.
Welcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider Podcast.
Academy Insider is a 501c3nonprofit organization that
serves midshipmen, futuremidshipmen and their families.
At its core, this podcast isdesigned to bring together a
community of Naval Academygraduates and those affiliated
with the United States NavalAcademy in order to tell stories
and provide a little bit ofinsight into what life at the
(00:22):
Naval Academy is really like.
I hope you enjoy it.
Thank you so much for listeningand reach out if you ever have
any questions.
Hey everyone, and welcome backto the Academy Insider Podcast.
I want to give a fair warningoff the bat that today's episode
is going to discuss some veryheavy topics, including suicide.
I'm joined by Tonya Lott.
Tonya's son, julian, was aNaval Academy graduate and a
submarine officer.
Julian died by suicide.
In today's episode we're goingto discuss Tonya's son.
(00:43):
Julian was a Naval Academygraduate and a submarine officer
.
Julian died by suicide.
In today's episode, we're goingto discuss Tonya's creation of
a company called Healing OutLoud, as well as the writing of
her book my Beautiful Black SonDied by Suicide.
We are also going to discussthe resources that exist at the
United States Naval Academy formidshipmen who may be struggling
with mental health, with anykind of health or just any
(01:03):
thoughts that they may be having, because, at the end of the day
, we just want to see ourmidshipmen and our service
members healthy and happy,filled with purpose and doing
their job.
I hope you enjoyed the listen.
I know this can be a verysensitive topic, so please feel
free to stop at any time, but Ijust want to highlight that this
is an important topic that weneed to talk about, which is
what Tonea will touch on in thisepisode as well, as well as
(01:25):
highlight the resources that areout there for midshipmen who
may be struggling.
Have a good listen, thank youvery much and have a good day.
The Academy Insider Podcast issponsored by the Vermeer Group,
a residential real estatecompany that serves the United
States Naval Academy communityand other select clientele in
(01:47):
both California and Texas.
If I can ever answer a realestate related question for you
or connect you with a trustedAcademy affiliated agent in the
market which you're in, pleasereach out to me directly at
grant at the Vermeer groupcom.
You can also reach out to me onmy LinkedIn page, graham
Vermeer, and I'd be happy torespond to you there.
Thank you so much, and nowlet's get back to the episode.
(02:07):
Hey everyone, and welcome backto the Academy Insider Podcast,
tania.
Thank you so much for takingthe time out of your day to come
talk to us about this topic and, if you don't mind, just giving
a quick introduction andbackground about yourself and
your relation to the NavalAcademy for our audience.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Well, thank you so much, Grant, for having me.
My name is Tania Lott and I amconnected to the Naval Academy
because my son, julian Brown III, is a graduate of the Naval
Academy in 2019.
And I could not have been moreproud of Julian.
When he graduated, heimmediately went off to
(02:45):
Submarine Nuclear EngineeringSchool in Charleston, south
Carolina, and he graduated inthe top I believe 5% of his
class, which was really.
I was proud of that.
But it was mandatory for thattop percentage to go to Norfolk
Virginia and we live inBaltimore, maryland, so Norfolk
(03:07):
Virginia did not sound veryexciting for him.
So he wasn't necessarilyexcited about being so close to
home.
He wanted to really experiencegoing away, but I thought it was
great because he would becloser to me.
But, yeah, he was quicklypromoted.
He got the title of Officer 3,level 3.
(03:30):
And he actually was asupervisor over a crew of a
recently commissioned sub SSN796.
9796.
So very, very proud of Julianand thought he was achieving
wonderful things and he wasalways just really popular, had
(03:52):
a lot of friends, and I foundout on August 15th 2023, that I
lost him to suicide without everknowing he was depressed.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah, it's a very difficult topic and I just
appreciate you again beingwilling to do this, and part of
this is in your overall mission,which you've articulated, to
heal out loud, right, and toshare your story in a
therapeutic way, but also tohelp give back, especially in
this community, where there area lot of really high performing
individuals right, and this isgoing to be a conversation that
(04:31):
you wrote about in your book,but today as well, is our role
as family and support and justscience to look at when someone
is extremely high performing andthey have a lot of friends, and
there's a lot of things thatcan be extremely difficult.
In that, and I do just want toask, before we even jump into
some of the topics of today, is,again, for anyone who hasn't
(04:53):
seen the book, again, I have itright here and I encourage you
to check it out my beautifulblack son died by suicide.
Do you mind?
What sharing that led you toactually write the book right on
On this pathway of healing,what led you to actually write
this book?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So initially I was just so confused Again, not even
knowing he was depressed.
This was extremely shocking.
Not that any parent can ever belike, oh okay, I knew my child
was depressed, it's fine.
But there is another layer.
(05:33):
When you think your child isextremely happy and the joy of
everyone's life to lose them inthis way, it is a shock to your
entire system.
So I started to journal forselfish reasons, trying to
(05:55):
figure out how I missed this andtrying to reconcile was I a bad
mom because I missed this?
So my journaling were justtrying to figure things out.
I went through old textmessages with Julian, just again
(06:16):
trying to figure out how Imissed this, and I received a
message.
One day I woke up and said youneed to write a book.
A message.
One day I woke up and said youneed to write a book Because
there's a lot of stigmasurrounding depression, mental
(06:37):
health and definitely suicide.
And I fell into that stigma.
Or seemingly happy, joking,popular, successful me, thinking
that that means they can'tsuffer from depression is a
stigma.
It's ignorance and notunderstanding that someone that
(07:01):
is achieving things and is goodat certain things and is always
popular and is funny does notmean they are struggling and
just not sharing it with others100%.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
And speaking of that sharing, can you tell us a
little bit about yourrelationship with Julian growing
up?
Was there ever kind of a lackof sharing growing up, was there
ever kind of a lack of sharing,or I think you wrote in that
book that you guys' relationshipwas extremely close and he told
you everything.
Is that correct?
And do you mind explaining justa little bit of your
relationship with Julian as hewas growing up as a child?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah.
So Julian and I were extremelyclose.
I've always been open as a momwith my kids and talked about
all the things that I thoughtwere important.
Again, we I myself and Julianas well born and raised in
Baltimore City, so as a Blackmom of a Black son, one of my
(07:59):
biggest concerns for him wasalways the street violence and
making sure that he was safe.
So the things that we talkedabout were things that I deemed
important.
We talked about keeping a coolhead and not getting into fights
.
We talked about the importanceof understanding how to be
(08:22):
compliant if you're pulled overby a police officer.
We talked about his creditscore.
We talked about safe sex.
We talked about all the thingsthat I thought were extremely
important, and Julian was prettyopen.
He almost overshared when Italked to him.
(08:43):
So when I thought it was time tohave the sex talk.
He was like oh yeah, I boughtcondoms already, I'm good.
So I was like what, what do youmean?
You're 13 years old, so hedefinitely would talk.
When I opened that door and I doregret that I never even when
(09:09):
he went through traumaticsituations I never said wow,
julian, this seems really heavy.
Have you thought about talkingto a therapist?
I regret asking him have youever thought about hurting
yourself?
Or, you know, have you everbeen so sad that you've thought
about hurting yourself?
Or, you know, have you everbeen so sad that you've thought
about that?
I think these are things, asparents, that we need to be more
(09:35):
open about.
Just like I wasn't afraid totalk about sex, I didn't think
that meant he was going to goout and have sex just because we
talked about it.
I also think that, as parents,we need to ask our young adults
because, again, at the NavalAcademy and at the time that I
lost Julian, he was 20, 25 yearsold, so he wasn't a little kid
(10:00):
anymore, he's a young adult, butI am still his parent and I do
regret never asking him.
How was his mental state?
How was he really feeling andwhat was he really thinking?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
You mentioned kind of not checking in on his
potentially on his mental state.
Were you able to experience orsee anything in a shift during
Plebe's summer or during theNaval Academy, or how was his
overall demeanor while he was amidshipman at the Naval Academy?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
So good question.
I definitely remember Plebe'ssummer, his letters.
He would say, oh, it's hard.
But then he would immediatelysay, but overall is, but overall
it's so easy.
He would mention one thing thatwas hard.
I just looked through all ofour letters, which I was so
(10:53):
grateful that I saved all ofthem.
But he mentioned trying tomemorize everything was so hard
and so stupid, like he felt itwas dumb.
But then he follows up and says, but everything else, I'm
killing it and tell everyoneit's as easy as I thought it
would be.
So he would say something hestruggles with but then kind of
(11:15):
makes a joke about overalleverything and I think that that
was his way of masking that hereally may have been struggling.
I also remember when he camehome because it was towards the
end of plebe summer when he wasable to come home, for it wasn't
even a weekend.
He just came home for a familydinner and then he had to go
(11:36):
back.
His dad took him back.
I didn't ride with them and hisdad shared with me that he
cried on his way back and saidhe really just wanted to stay
home.
He didn't want to go back.
It was really tough.
So he did share that with hisdad.
(11:57):
Looking back on it, julian didnot 100% just openly share with
me when he was really struggling.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
He shared with other people Like I didn't even know.
Julian was stressed.
I did notice that he started tokind of distance himself and he
seemed busier than usual.
And I did ask him.
I said, julian, you know what'sgoing on.
It doesn't seem like you'rereplying to my texts like you
(12:28):
usually do.
And he said, mom, I'm just sobusy.
And I thought that was, youknow, a reasonable answer.
He's working on a submarinewhere he can't necessarily
answer text messages Sometimeshe was working really long days.
So I was just like, oh yeah,he's busy, makes sense, and
didn't question it anymore,where I wish I would have said
(12:53):
are you sure you're just busy orare you going through something
?
Are you struggling?
Is it?
Are you stressed?
I wish I would have peeled backthe onion just a little bit
more and not just assumed that,oh well, he's 25 years old, he's
grown, he doesn't need hismommy checking up on him.
I wish mommy would have done alittle more checking in.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, it's a really tough situation.
It's near impossible to be inthat spot for you and as a
parent, because he is busy,right, he is extremely busy, and
life on a submarine is it'salmost never ending, right, like
it's just, it's constant.
And so I just I think that'sit's extremely difficult because
you don't want to beoverbearing and these are these,
(13:37):
these tough situations.
And then on top of that,there's another factor kind of
mixed into it, which I do wantto talk about because it's
something you mentioned a lot inyour book.
Is this idea of the mask ofsuccess right?
Because, at the end of the day,julian, he was great
academically, he was top of hisclass at the nuclear power
school, he had purchased twohomes at his different duty
(13:58):
stations, like, not only in awork sense but in a life sense,
he had all things seemingly verysuccessful.
And so, from that perspective,how did you again, how do you
start to realize it andretrospectively think back on
this again, this mask of success, and not taking everything at
just the face value of what itlooks like?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah.
So hindsight, for me it stillisn't 2020.
There are still some thingswhere I'm like I just don't
understand that.
However, there were signs rightthe last time we FaceTimed, his
girlfriend had the phone whilehe was driving and Julian did
(14:45):
not look at me.
He never leaned over and said"'Hey Mom".
I heard him speaking, but henever looked at me.
That was a sign.
And I remember feeling Juliandidn't even I didn't even see
his face and I kind of brushedit off like, well, he's driving,
but he wasn't that safe of adriver.
(15:08):
He could have leaned over tosay hello.
That was a sign.
I also remember thinking it wasstrange that he and his
girlfriend were.
I FaceTimed him, which Inormally don't just FaceTime
without texting first, but wewere at my mom's, we were
telling a funny story and Iwanted to FaceTime him to see if
(15:30):
he would pick up and he did.
And I find out he's in Atlantawith his girlfriend going to a
Beyoncé concert.
And I remember thinking, wait aminute, what you didn't tell me
and my husband to come join you.
He knows I love Beyonce and Iwould have gone to Atlanta.
(15:51):
We could have gone to theconcert together.
I remember thinking that's weird.
Not only not just that hedidn't ask me, just that I
didn't know.
Like that wasn't.
Like Julian, we shared likeeverything, especially exciting
things, like guess what, I'mgoing to Atlanta to see Beyonce,
(16:11):
like that's.
So I just remember thinking,wow, he's really growing up,
like he's not even telling mewhen he does stuff.
But that wasn't it.
He was.
This was the week he.
I lost him on August 15th,which was a Tuesday.
(16:34):
This was the Saturday beforethe Tuesday.
He was trying his best to havea good time with his girlfriend,
but he could not face me.
I think he was struggling thatbad where he couldn't face me.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And then the last time he came home, which was in
July July 7th for mygranddaughter's birthday party,
I remember him always when hecame home he would go out with
his friends and for whateverreason he was just so tired he
took a nap and when he woke up Isaid so you're going to go hang
(17:20):
out?
And he said, no, I'm just goingto go back home.
And I was like what?
But I just remember thinking,oh, because he surprised us when
he came home.
It's almost a four-hour drive,maybe he's just tired, maybe he
works so hard.
But those were signs he wasn'tjust tired.
(17:42):
His personality had changed alittle.
He, his personality had changeda little.
The text messages were fewerand far in between.
His connection to me was off.
His connection to his friendsnot wanting to visit his friends
was off.
So there were some signs he hadshared with everyone else but
(18:04):
me that he was so stressed.
He was very stressed.
He just told me he was busy.
He never shared.
He was stressed.
But if all of us as a familywould have sat down to say, hey,
what has Julian shared with you?
It would have come out that heexpressed how stressed he was.
(18:24):
He was very short-tempered,more than usual, even with his
dogs.
He had lost his temper with oneof his dogs.
That was not Julian.
He was really struggling.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, and how do you navigate the after of this
situation and how do younavigate the after of this
situation?
Again, you mentioned multipletimes that these things and now
and telling these stories andjournaling and writing a book
have been a source of likeprocessing what happened.
How have you processed thisgrief and how do you continue to
(19:03):
heal through this process?
To heal through this process?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
That's a good question, grant, because I'm
still I'm very new in my griefjourney.
It's been it was a year inAugust.
I have come up with the termand actually started a company
called Healing Out Loud, and thereason for that is because I'm
(19:29):
trying so hard to break thestigma surrounding mental health
, depression and suicide and indoing so, it's helping me heal,
because I recognize now that,even with all the information in
(19:50):
the world, I still may not havebeen able to stop this.
Sure, I do believe that havingmore information, having more
understanding, would have beenhelpful and could have stopped
it.
But I try not to do the woulda,coulda, shouldas, because I did
(20:12):
the best that I could with theinformation and the knowledge
that I had.
So I had really tried to.
I'm turning my pain from losingthe most amazing son I could
have ever asked for.
I mean truly, julian was a joy.
(20:32):
Some people, you know, theylove their kids but they don't
really like their kids.
I really like my kids and Ireally enjoyed everything about
Julian good, bad, ugly, whateveryou want to call it.
The only thing I would havechanged is how I lost them,
(20:53):
right.
So I'm healing out loud in hopesof sharing my story because if
I fell into the stigma that oh,of course he's not depressed,
suicide's not even on the tablefor us to discuss because look
at all his accomplishments Iknow that if I fall into that
(21:15):
stigma, other parents and otherpeople fall into that stigma as
well.
And not knowing that you haveto check in on mental health,
even if you don't think yourperson is depressed, it's still
something to check in on mentalhealth.
Even if you don't think yourperson is depressed, it's still
something to check in on.
So my Healing Out Loud journeyis hoping that I can help people
(21:38):
understand how important it isto check on our loved ones'
mental, regardless if we thinkthey're depressed or not.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, and in your learning and discovery of this
process, what does that looklike?
Like what questions should beasking?
Is it as simple as just quiteliterally asking a direct
question like how is your mentalstate?
Or what things you know inretrospect and conversations
you've been having with you?
Know your folks in the cornerwith you kind of going through
(22:10):
this process?
What questions like were youwishing that maybe you would
have asked in those moments?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah.
So I did a panel discussion ata woman's summit on Julian's
birthday it would.
He would have been 27 onOctober 22nd and during that
panel discussion we did a Q&A atthe end and there was a lady in
the audience who said her dadwas a psychiatrist and it was
(22:38):
normal practice growing up inher home for her dad to say well
, you're not thinking abouthurting yourself, are you?
Whenever they discussedproblems that they were having
as kids, she said it was justnormal about hurting yourself,
are you".
Whenever they discussedproblems that they were having
as kids, she said it was justnormal.
And I think that it needs to benormalized to ask the people
that we love if we see ifthey're in a stressful
(23:03):
environment, which the Navy, itcan be very stressful.
I think it's important to sayare you sure that you're just
busy or is there somethingdeeper going on?
Are you really stressed?
If they say yes, I am terriblystressed.
(23:23):
I think it is so important tojust follow up and say you're
not thinking about hurtingyourself, are you?
Or have you thought abouthurting yourself?
Actually the latter have youthought about hurting yourself?
Don't say you're not thinkingabout hurting yourself, are you,
because that kind of impliesthat they shouldn't be thinking
that you just want to just askhave you ever thought about
(23:47):
hurting yourself?
Are you in?
Are you so stressed that you'vethought that you just can't go
on anymore?
Ask the question.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
And most people that are in that much pain can't lie
about it can't lie about it,sure, sure, no.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That makes sense.
And from your perspective again, I think this is I, just, I
just I feel so sorry for you isagain.
You've mentioned a couple oftimes like it was.
It was tough because you putyour pride and identity in in
being, in being a mother andbeing there for him and you wish
you could have changed thesethings and you even asked
yourself the question like did Imiss something?
Is it my fault?
(24:34):
And somehow, how have you goneon your journey of silencing
that inner critic and just kindof loving and taking care of
yourself after and through thisprocess as well?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
care of yourself after and through this process
as well.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, so you really read that book, huh.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Thank you, grant.
I read it.
I read it through and through,through and through, thank you.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
So I learned I've alwaysconsidered myself a pretty
confident person, but I learnedthat most of my confidence was
based off of my kids' success,which is not true confidence and
(25:17):
it's not true happiness to baseyour happiness based off of
your child doing well in life.
Because once this happenedbecause that was my entire
identity I felt like I wanted todie.
How could I go on living whenmy son was this unhappy for the
(25:41):
result to be his death?
So I really had to pull myselfout of a really dark, dark, dark
era in understanding that I amstill a good mom In spite of
this.
Julian was still an amazingperson.
(26:03):
The fact that he lost hisbattle and it ended in suicide
does not define the man that hewas, does not define the mother
that I still am.
I also realized that we onlyfeel about things based off of
(26:23):
the stories we tell ourselves,and there was a point that I was
telling myself well, obviouslyyou were a horrible mom because
you missed this.
Well, I started to realize thatmy brain was doing the worst
case scenario, saying yes, youwere a bad mom because you
(26:45):
missed this.
I started going through textmessages and seeing Julian tell
me mom, thank you so much.
I can always depend on you ifhe asked a question or needed
something.
So I was like this doesn'tsound like a bad mom.
It sounds like I was a prettygood mom.
It sounds like my son knew hecould depend on me but for
(27:10):
whatever reason, he didn't wantthis burden for me.
He felt like he could handle it.
So I started telling my stories, telling myself a different
story.
Rather than going to the worstcase scenario, I started
painting a more positive picture, because I don't know the 100%
(27:35):
truth.
So, rather than going to theworst case scenario, I just
started telling myself the bestcase scenario to give myself the
will to live, to survive thisunimaginable loss.
And then I also felt like itwas my duty to try to make sure
(27:55):
that other parents don't sufferthis same type of loss.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Absolutely, and you've kind of dubbed that as
this idea of healing throughawareness.
And you told stories againabout the concert in Atlanta
with Beyonce and some of theseother factors.
What are these signs?
More or less that again you'vegrown to learn and seen in
retrospect that parents shouldbe looking out for, whether
(28:20):
direct or indirect.
You kind of gave examples ofhow it directly related to
Julian, but how would you kindof more broadly describe some of
these things that they shouldbe paying attention to as as
best they can, as they'refiguring this stuff out?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, definitely pay attention to change behavior.
If you feel like your child isautomatically replies to a text,
if they just start saying, okay, if they, you send them a text
and you notice they don't evenlike it.
Or if they only like it anddon't say anything, and they
(28:58):
usually say something.
Those are changes in behavior,especially these days and times.
You know days and times youknow younger people that texting
is a lifeline.
So if the communication changesthrough that lifeline, that is
a huge sign and you should digdeep to find out why that
(29:19):
changed and don't take I'm busyas an answer.
Ask more questions to determineif it is it really because
they're busy or if it's becausesomething else more, if they
have more burdens that are goingon that they're not sharing at
that moment.
(29:41):
No, absolutely on ourhigh-performing kids because
(30:04):
they don't want us to feel, ifthey have a mental struggle,
that we wouldn't be proud ofthem.
So it's extremely important tounderstand, when we're telling
our kids how proud we are ofthem, that we also are a safe
space to let them know mentallyif it's ever too much All these
(30:30):
things that we're proud of withyour accomplishments at the
Naval Academy or whatever theydecide to do after the Naval
Academy.
Whatever they're doing, we needto let them know If it's too
much.
You need to let me know.
If mentally you can't handlethis, it's okay, we're going to
(30:51):
figure out your next steps, itwill be okay.
I wish I would have shared thatwith Julian that in any branch
of the services, if you'rehaving severe mental issues and
you say you're, you havethoughts of suicide, you're
(31:13):
going to be discharged andthat's okay.
It's okay.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, no one one 100% .
And again, just in specificrelation to the Naval Academy,
I'll kind of again jump in.
If you're a parent and you knowyou're worried in any little
way, again, there are so manyresources and you're not sure
how you would handle aconversation like encourage as
(31:43):
well your son or daughter topursue some of the resources
that exist on the Naval Academycampus, because they are
extensive.
Every single battalion on theyard inside of Bancroft Hall has
a chaplain assigned to them whohave this grief counseling and
counseling training behind themas well.
There's the MidshipmanDevelopment Center, which is a
(32:04):
full staffed, from actual traumaresponse, psychology, every
kind of aspect of mental health,even down to sports performance
and nutrition it ranges thewhole gamut and they have
emergency services.
There are so many ways at theAcademy for Midshipman to go
(32:26):
seek help, right, and so for youas well and on Academy Insider
we'll continue to talk aboutthese resources, just so you're
aware and utilizing the correctterminology, to potentially
again recommend or encourageyour son or daughter to seek
those If you are noticing someof these signs that are making
you again question ifeverything's okay, right.
(32:49):
And so again, I just want totake this time to let the
audience who's listening knowthat there's so many incredible
resources at the Naval Academyas well to help when things are
starting to trend in thatdirection or just become
extremely difficult, rightBecome extremely difficult.
And so you know you hadmentioned to me that it was like
(33:10):
this last piece of like I wishI would have.
You know, maybe I wish I wouldhave done something different or
I wish I would have done thishow have you forgiven yourself
and kind of what are youcontinuing to do in this idea of
turning lessons into blessingsand how has that journey been
for you?
And continuing, like youmentioned, trying to share the
(33:32):
word and spread this informationso no one else has to
experience this?
What is this last phase of thisjourney been for you in doing
that?
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, so for feeling like I missed this.
I think I forgave Julian firstand then myself second.
And forgiving myself was veryhard because, you know, we're
(34:03):
hard on ourselves and that'swhere the journaling came in.
There were other people I hadto forgive as well, because this
blew our families up, like youknow.
It was just a lot of trauma anda lot of people were just so
confused and it caused a lot oftrauma.
So once I forgave myself, itmade it so much easier for me to
(34:29):
forgive other people Because,again, it was hard to forgive
myself.
It easier to recognize thehumanity in others and trying to
navigate what Julian's lossmeant in their lives.
(34:52):
And as much as I would love tosay as his mother, my pain
outweighs everyone else's painand it really does.
But I do know that others lovedhim immensely Siblings, cousins
(35:15):
, aunts, grandparents.
Julian was extremely loved.
So when you're in pain anddealing with trauma, you don't
necessarily you don't always acta hundred percent the way you
(35:36):
would like to act.
I know I do.
I did some things that I'm nottoo happy about.
So, yeah, forgiving myself waseasy or was hard, and then
forgiving others was a littlebit easier and through that
forgiveness I showed it camewith a lot of gratitude.
(35:57):
So gratitude and forgivenesskind of went hand in hand for me
.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Sure, Absolutely Well .
Thank you again for sharing allof these raw emotions and
aspects related to the situation.
If there's someone listening tothis right now and they want to
find you or reach out orpurchase the book, where would
you direct them to go in orderto again hear more about the
(36:26):
story or reach out to you ifthey're needing support as well,
or guidance, or just want totalk?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
So I do want to say I do want to explain the name of
the book.
So you mentioned it earlier myBeautiful Black Son Died by
Suicide.
I named it such an my beautifulBlack son died by suicide.
I named it such an in-your-facetitle because when I first
suffered this loss I ran to abereavement group that dealt
(36:56):
specific to suicide.
I did several groups and I wasalways the only parent that lost
their child of color and itfelt very lonely for whatever
reason, and I didn't have anyonethat I knew that looked like me
(37:17):
that suffered this type of loss.
I realize now that in the Blackcommunity we do suffer loss from
suicide.
We just don't talk about it.
So I wanted the book to benamed a title where another
(37:38):
Black parent would know oh myGod, somebody else suffered this
same type of loss.
But it's not just for the Blackcommunity.
The book can be found right nowonly on Amazon.
And it's not just for someonethat has someone that they think
is depressed, it is also forsomeone that thinks they know
(38:02):
everything about what depressionlooks like.
It's definitely.
I try to be very, very specificon Julian's personality and how
wonderful he was, for selfishreasons, again, trying to
explain how I missed it right.
But I also do go into some verydeep details on the signs that
(38:26):
Julian did display that myselfand others missed, and they are
like textbook direct signs orindirect signs of what severely
depressed individuals display,characteristics that they
display.
(38:46):
So if you're interested inbuying the book, it shows
Julian's picture beautifulpicture because he is beautiful
and I used to always say when Iposted on social media oh my
beautiful black son.
So the name came kind ofnatural for me.
(39:10):
But I do encourage parents thatwant to really dig deep, and
definitely for parents at theNaval Academy, because it is so
stressful and you want to findthat balance of making sure your
kid is okay but not being toomuch of a burden, but
understanding when there aresigns.
(39:31):
So for anyone that isinterested in purchasing the
book, it can be found on Amazonright now.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Fantastic.
Thank you, and is thereanything that you would like to
leave the Academy Insideraudience with on top of what
you've already mentioned?
Speaker 2 (39:51):
One of the main focuses that I have, or main
focus that I have, is makingsure that everyone knows we no
longer say committed suicide.
It's important for me to stressthat because committed you
(40:13):
commit murder.
You don't commit suicide.
My son loved life.
My son loved me.
He would not have intentionallyleft me with this hole in my
heart.
He knew how much I loved him.
Sometimes he would say, mom,you're obsessed with me.
(40:35):
He knew I was obsessed with him.
He would not have purposelydone this to me.
So when you are suffering from amental illness, your mind plays
tricks on you and you can'tthink of anything else other
than ending your pain.
(40:56):
So it's not something youcommit.
We say loss by suicide or diedby suicide, but I definitely
would love for all of youraudience to recognize that and
try to change that terminology.
It does make a big differencefor people that are having those
(41:17):
thoughts to feel a little morelike it's a safe place to not
use that term and it definitelymakes the survivors of suicide
loss feel a little more acceptedthat you don't think our loved
ones did this to us in a selfishway, because it's not about
(41:38):
being selfish.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, absolutely Well .
Thank you so much for takingthe time to join us today and
share this story and again, justheal out loud and, you know,
just put this in the air forfamilies at the Naval Academy as
well, just to be consideringthis.
So thank you so much for yourcourage, your strength, your
kindness to do this and wereally, really appreciate you
(42:01):
appreciate you no, I appreciateyou, grant for recognizing this
is such an important topic.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
It's not a fun topic, but it is an important topic
and I thank you so much forrecognizing that.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
Of course, it's my pleasure.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
And again to the AcademyInsider audience, feel free to
reach out If there's everanything that I can do for you
and help educating about theresources that exist at the
Naval Academy and in the Navyand Marine Corps to help in
these situations as well.
Please, please, please reachout.
That's the goal of this rightis to get awareness out as well,
(42:37):
just to have these discussions,like you mentioned, it's not
fun, it is important.
So, thank you so much, I reallyappreciate it.
And to the Academy Insideraudience, I hope you have a good
day.
Thank you so much, I reallyappreciate it.
And to the Academy Insideraudience, I hope you have a good
day.
Thank you so much for listening.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of the Academy
Insider podcast.
I really hope you liked it,enjoyed it and learned something
during this time.
If you did, please feel free tolike and subscribe or leave a
(43:00):
comment about the episode.
We really appreciate to hearyour feedback about everything
and continue to make AcademyInsider an amazing service that
guides, serves and supportsmidshipmen, future midshipmen
and their families.
Thank you.
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