#094 Navy Formula SAE - Building Cars and Character

Did you go watch Brad Pitt in the F1 movie?! Did you know the United States Naval Academy has a Formula team? The Naval Academy Formula SAE Team is a unique capstone project that combines automotive engineering with leadership development.

In this episode, we sit down with Kevin Burnett, a former midshipman turned USNA instructor and officer representative for the Navy Formula SAE team. Kevin shares his journey from the Academy to the Civil Engineer Corps and back again, offering invaluable insights into this exciting program.

What is Formula SAE?

Formula SAE is a collegiate competition where students design, build, and race small-scale formula-style racing cars. While not affiliated with Formula One, it offers a similar thrill and engineering challenge. The Naval Academy's team competes annually against 120 other universities at the Michigan International Speedway.

Why Formula SAE Matters for Midshipmen

Kevin explains how this program offers unparalleled opportunities for engineering students to apply classroom knowledge to real-world problems. Beyond technical skills, it develops:

• Peer leadership abilities
• Project management expertise
• Communication skills
• Resilience in the face of challenges

Key Takeaways from this Episode

• The unique challenges of running a Formula SAE team at a service academy
• How underclassmen can get involved and set themselves up for success
• The importance of humility and proactive learning in leadership development
• Parallels between Formula SAE team dynamics and military leadership

Words of Wisdom for Future Leaders

Kevin leaves us with powerful advice for aspiring service academy students and future military leaders:

"Be humble, be confident, and go. Go on. Almost find adversity. See what your limits are. And guess what? That limit's not going to be permanent. Find the limit, figure out how to fix it, and build and build and build."

Whether you're a gear head, an aspiring naval officer, or simply curious about unique educational experiences, this episode offers a fascinating glimpse into a program that's shaping the next generation of military engineers and leaders.

The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.

Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.

He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community with nationwide consulting and connection.

We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.

Connect with Grant on Linkedin
Academy Insider Website
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If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: [e-mail].

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you're a fan of Formula One, you're going to
love this episode, especially aswe have a little Naval Academy
twist to it.
Welcome back to the AcademyInsider Podcast.
My name is Grant.
I'm looking forward to gettingto bring on Kevin Burnett.
He's an instructor at the NavalAcademy.
He was a midshipman himself andnow he's a big component and a
piece and, like the officerrepresentative of the Navy
Formula SAE team, it's notassociated with like the actual

(00:23):
F1 brand, the Formula One brand,but it's in a similar vein,
similar industry.
It's an automotive engineeringtype team and this is a really
cool thing that a handful ofmidshipmen are going to do every
year as a capstone project, andso if you're interested in this
world of F1 and Formula Racingin general and the Naval Academy
, you're going to get a kick outof this episode.

(00:43):
We share a ton of stories abouthis time in the Civil Engineer
Corps as well, what brought himback to the Academy and his hope
, goal, mission and intent withbeing involved with the Formula
SAE team.
So really looking forward to it.
If you have any questions, asalways, please let me know.
Otherwise, enjoy the episode.
Thank you so much for thelisten.

(01:11):
Before we jump in, I do want tohighlight that Academy Insider
is powered by my for-profitbusiness, the Vermeer Group.
We do real estate consultationand connection across the
country for service academyfamilies.
So if you're thinking aboutbuying or selling a home, I
would love if you reached out tome.
It would support me and supportAcademy Insider, and I'd love
to get to talk to you about realestate as well.
So thank you so much, let'sjump into it.
Hope you enjoy the episode.
All right, everyone, welcomeback to the Academy Insider
podcast.
My God, kevin, thanks so muchfor being here with us today and

(01:32):
taking the time to talk about areally cool topic, because for
anyone out there who's just afan of the formula series or F1,
people seeing this on TV andall over the place this is a
popular topic and I don't thinka lot of people know that the
Naval Academy has a formula team, and so I'm excited for you to
be here.
Before we jump too deep in thetopic, I want to give you the
opportunity to introduceyourself, tell us what brought

(01:54):
you to the Naval Academy and alittle bit about your story
through the Navy.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Awesome.
Well, hey, grant, first off,thanks to you and your team for
just having me on here.
Man, Honored to be a part ofthis and honored to be back here
at the academy in an instructorrole.
Man, long journey, I will say.
It's been filled with a lot ofadversity and I am honestly so
thankful for that.

(02:21):
And, to kind of start at theback, grew up in Newcastle,
delaware, so not too far fromthe Naval Academy.
Honestly, not a military family, no background there.
But 9-11 happened when I was inhigh school.
I was actually in a militaryhistory class when it happened
and I just knew I had to be partof something to support that.
Didn't know what it would looklike, didn't know what it would
be, but I just knew somethingwas talking to me there and I
ended up applying to the NavalAcademy.

(02:43):
Getting in, I figured threethings.
I said all right, I know I wantto lead the military, number
one priority.
I want to be a mechanicalengineer.
I was a gearhead growing up.
Love, love, motorcycles, cars,trucks, great engineering.
And then I'm going to playfootball too and wasn't a
recruit Humbled there.
We'll talk about that.
Yeah, we can talk a lot aboutthat.
So I went there for threereasons, only got two of them

(03:06):
and that's okay.
Yeah, a ton we can talk aboutat my time at the academy.
But to jump ahead a little bit,was supposed to be a
sub-officer, had an unfortunateair embolism during a medical
procedure and it forced me toredesignate and ended up getting
picked up by the Civil EngineerCorps, so cec for short for a
lot of those folks.
A lot of folks see cec or thecivil engineer corps, not not so

(03:29):
commonly known, but cbs.
Most folks at least have heardof them or maybe have heard of
the construction battalions, thecbs.
So I've been been a cec officersince and have spent a fair
amount of time on my career backhere teaching, so that that
brings us kind of today.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, no, it's fantastic.
And through that piece, justagain, I know this isn't an
episode about the CB community,but where did your career path
take you?
Right Again, I know, like youknow, submarine, it's a pretty
structured pathway and everyonebasically knows hey, I'm going
to Charleston, I'm going tonuclear power school, I'm going
to go to prototype, I'm going togo to my ship, Like what's it
look like on the on the CB side,and kind of, what was your

(04:04):
experience in the Navy?

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, yeah.
So honestly, pretty unorthodoxtoo, and this is one of the
highlights of the CEC.
You kind of have two bigpillars, which is the maybe the
operational side.
We'll call that the green sideCBs, deployments, building stuff
, attaching to the Marine Corps,attaching to the army,
attaching to SEAL teams, doingthat whole stuff in the dirt.
But then there's more of thewe'll call it the NAVFAC side of

(04:30):
the house Naval FacilityEngineering Command, and that's
maintaining our installationsaround the world.
So what's cool about a CECofficer is you actually could
get stationed at every singleNavy and Marine Corps
installation, or at least havethe opportunity to do.
You can't hit them all becauseyour career is not going to make
that happen, but if you look ata billet list and we can hit,

(04:51):
we've got all of them, becauseour job is to support the line
officers, right Line communities.
What do they need?
If the surface fleet needs anew pier, we're going to figure
that out.
If the runways are in despairat Pensacola, we'll try to
improve them.
If the Marine Corps needs a newschool at TBS or a new facility
, we'll make that happen.

(05:11):
So I got to go to NMCB 11, soNaval Mobile Construction,
battalion 11, out of Gulfport,mississippi.
That was my first operationalunit.
We went to the Pacific, did aPACOM deployment nearly a year
long, so got a ton of experiencethere.
Spent a lot of time in Okinawa,came back, went to Quantico and
supported the Marine Corps as aconstruction manager, so

(05:34):
basically new construction andrenovations for them.
Spent about nearly two yearsthere, Volunteered, for an
individual augmentee, so thatwas pretty a hot thing in that
we'll call it 2005 to 2015timeframe.
So did an IA joint Navy army.
We went to Afghanistan Ghazni,afghanistan so did a tour there.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Can you explain what the term IA means for someone
who may not be familiar?

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yep, absolutely so.
Individual augmentee.
Yep, absolutely so, individualaugmentee.

(06:27):
So instead of taking a unit todo a mission, we can take
operators, whoever we need, andsay, all right, let's put this
team together and make it.
Yeah, it's super interesting.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
I apologize, I'm just going to tack on there real
quick, because that was big inthe cryptologic community as
well.
So I was a cryptologic officer.
We did a lot of IAs because itwas one of these things, whereas
you weren't going to send anentire command of 150
cryptologists, but you may needone cryptologist and maybe you
know three cryptologic enlistedsupport individuals to like to
go out there and do a missionfor someone right, or join some

(06:56):
army signals, battalions orwhatever the case is, and so you
get a lot of cool opportunitythere, which is a really unique
niche aspect of the Navy worldBecause, again, usually a
submarine is just going to go ondeployment, a ship is just
going to go on deployment, butsome of these support staffs or
support officers yeah, we do alot of IAs, we do a lot of
individual augmentation acrossthe globe, which is really cool.

(07:17):
So, anyway, appreciate lettingme jump in there and back to you
.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
So yep, finished that tour upand then the CEC said, hey,
you've done a fair amount ofoperational stuff NAVFAC stuff
and you need a staff billet tokind of balance things out.
I said, all right, give me theoptions.
They said, okay, you can be aflag aid, you can work at
Pentagon and kind of push somepaper and prep some briefs, if
you want, or you can be aninstructor.

(07:41):
And I said tell me about myinstructor options briefs if you
want, or you can be aninstructor.
And I said tell me about myinstructor options.
And there were two on the table.
One is our is our basic school.
We call it Seacoast CivilEngineer Corps Officer School,
port Hueneme.
They they were kind of plussedup there and they said we're
struggling to fill the academybillet or billets, and what will
be nice, you'll go there,you'll get your graduate degree
too and you'll teach someengineering and it'll be a nice

(08:03):
stepping stone in your career.
And I said sign me up.
I was a midshipman, I struggledthere, I got a ton of lessons
learned and if anyone can bringsome lessons learned, I'm going
to bring a truckload of them.
And so ended up doing that andit actually didn't work out as
planned and I ended upaffiliating with the reserves
and I've been on and off reserve, kind of a drilling reservist,

(08:24):
and then doing somemobilizations and some
activations in the in themeantime.
So that kind of brings usbrings us now.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
So I've got to see some cool stuff Very interesting
.
And again you mentioned, youknow, you kind of had some some
struggle, adversity, difficultyduring your time as a midshipman
as well.
You know, what I want to askabout is some of that adversity
and difficulty, but alsospecifically right Like this
idea of and it sounds like maybeyou had wanted, especially with

(08:53):
your engineering brain, wantedto be a submariner for a long
time right, like, how was, howwas that adjustment for you of
being like, oh, I want to be asubmariner, I want to be a
submariner, I'm going to be asubmariner, and then having this
medical issue, that kind ofshifted you to the civil
engineer core.
And how did you, how did youdeal with that?
How did you cope with that?
And kind of, how did your timeas a midshipman prepare you for

(09:13):
that?

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Yeah, so I'll.
I'll kind of I'll be straightup.
I I did.
When I came to the academy Ididn't know what I wanted to do.
I really didn't.
And honestly, I had one mentorand he was my weapons instructor
and he was a sub guy.
He was getting out and therewere a lot of folks.
Maybe it's just bad timing, butthere were a lot of folks that
were getting out after theinstructor tour and it could

(09:39):
have been the pre-9-11.
Like, a lot of those folksjoined pre-9-11 and things were
changing and, like you said, IAsand all these deployments, and
so I struggled to find a mentor.
But there was a sub guy whoactually took me under his wing
because it was our careerstarter loan and it sounds
almost embarrassing.
But look, man, I'm humble and Idon't care.
They're like, hey, you're goingto get some money and you can

(10:02):
take this loan if you want.
They're like hey, you're goingto get some money and you can
take this loan if you want.
And he had a.
He set aside like 20 minutes ofclass and was dropping all this
knowledge on Roth, ira this andinterest rate that, and I had
no idea what he's talking about,like my, my folks.
Yeah, I don't know what thatmeans we're blue, we're blue,
look, blue collar Delaware,we're surviving.
And I afterwards I said, hey,lt, sir, I I honestly don't know

(10:26):
what you're talking about.
And he's like no problem, yeah,give me a free period.
You come to my office and wasso cool about teaching me and
educated and there was no dumbquestions and I was like I want
to follow this guy and he's asub guy and I'm going to go do
that.
I'm a Mechie, I'm going to godo that and that's really why I
picked it.
New school was tough and I wentthrough.
No kidding, it's a six-monthpower school.

(10:48):
I went through five months,three weeks, and during the
fourth week I got my erromalism,like the whole thing.
And what was tough about it waswell, one.
I mean I don't know how tosurvive, like to survive an
erromolism, like like that.
I was in a naval hospital incharleston and where it happened

(11:10):
and I wake up and I'm on oxygen.
I'm strapped to a stretcher onmy left side like I'm, like I'm
in a saint, like a uh, like theygot me strapped, like they're
worried I'm gonna go nuts.
I'm soaked.
I'm sweat, like soaked in my kh.
I'm in a room I've never beenin my life and there's a Navy
captain, a doc, there and I gotmy oxygen on.
He's like don't roll over,you're going to die.

(11:31):
You haven't you have an airbubble suspended in your heart
and we got to get you to arecompression chamber in
downtown Charleston and Iwatched down there.
I'm in this chamber for fornearly 12 hours.
My advisor comes in hey,thankfully you're alive.
We're going to roll you backeight weeks.
This is great, you can kind ofrecover and all this.
So I'm in the hospital.
A couple of days I come backand she's, and she gets the

(11:53):
leadership from the power schooland they say, hey,
unfortunately it's too much redtape medically and they're very
honest with you about it, whichI respect that.
But to be told you're not worthcutting through red tape, that
that stuck.
So I won't, I won't lie and sayit felt good.
But I did appreciate thehonesty, like, hey, we can't,

(12:14):
honestly, we can't risk puttingany more money into it because
we don't know what, what, whatyour medical condition could
lead to.
Yeah, it's just the unknown,it's not something we're going
to mess with.
So please redesignate.
So I went from like kind ofbeing crushed to I'm one who
just look as long as you getback up, you're good.
And I kind of got back up andthey're handing me this book.

(12:37):
It looked like a pro novel andit was a little pamphlet
alphabetical order and it wasall the communities you could
pick, like aviation dutymaintenance officer.
Second one like Civil EngineerCorps.
I'm like man.
I remember this from CB's dirtChucks Whitman.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
I'm like, hey, this is the one too.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah.
I was like, put it in.
And they're like no, no, no,you need two weeks, we need five
of them.
I was like, no, no, no, youneed two weeks, we need five of
them.
I was like, no, no, I'll putthis five times.
They're like, no, no, no,seriously, you need five.
Five SWO's got to be on there.
You got to put SWO on theresomewhere.
So I said, okay, five swokersas a mid.

(13:26):
We'd go back to that if we want.
And I was like, okay, cec'snumber one and I'm going to put
three things in the middle thatthey can't give me because of my
medical condition.
They're not, I'm not going tobe a seal, I can't be eod, right
, nothing with diving and water.
So I think I lucked out becauseI forced their hand and I did
in a session.
Yeah, I did in a sessions visitto like meet the cec community
and that, I think, put it overthe top.
So I went from quickly beingtold you ain't worth it to just

(13:49):
saying, okay, no problem, youwant to shut the door on me, I'm
going to find a window that'sopen, I'm going to get in this
building and I'm going to workwith whoever wants to work with
me, and it was the CEC at thatpoint.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah, no, it's, it's really cool.
I appreciate you sharing yourstory and something that I'm
interested in about is kind, beyour company officer, or it's
going to be the commandant, orif it's going to be your senior
enlisted leader, or it's goingto be your random EM 300 teacher
who's telling you about RothIRAs in class when you take out
your career starter loan, right.
But like there's so manyincredible people across the

(14:38):
spectrum and so you know, foryou who had kind of had you know
it sounds like again a littlesome adversity at the Naval
Academy went through this majorlife changing and shifting
moment, through your time in theNavy.
How did you want to approachbeing an instructor, giving back
to the midshipmen, impartingyour wisdom and sharing your
stories and making a positiveimpact in the life of midshipmen

(14:59):
?

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yeah, absolutely so.
To tell you the truth, it'sutterly simple in my book I just
want to make the next wavebetter than me.
And that is the epitome ofleadership, like here's
everything I've got lessonslearned.
Run with it and do better thanme.
And while you're doing it, I'mgoing to keep elevating the
standard.
And if I can make you betterthan me and you can make the
next wave better than you and wecan keep doing that, we are

(15:22):
going in the right direction.
And that part of it's prettysimple and I think for me it's
always just being humble, andpeople can follow someone who's.
If you're genuine and you'rehumble enough to admit the
things that you got tripped upon, people listen to you, right,
they can relate to you, andthen they open up.
They'll ask you about thatEM300 problem that they're

(15:44):
struggling with.
They'll talk to you about thesport team they're on and
they're not getting the playingtime they need.
Or they'll talk to you abouttheir family member who's sick
at home or whatever it is.
Because you humbly opened thedoor first and while I was a
midshipman, there were a fewinstructors who did that more,
who didn't, and I felt like thatis not okay.

(16:04):
We need to do better at that.
And human nature, I think, in myopinion, is we focus on the, on
the, the outsides, the top 20%.
They get the, the, all the love.
I don't care if it's academics,sports, we like extremes, so
everyone is doing awesome.
We, we laser, focusing on folkswho struggle we also focus on
too, especially in academics.
Hey, you need my help.

(16:25):
What about the middle six, themiddle 60?
They get, they get glazed overbecause and that was me, I was
in the middle 60, I'll call it,and you know, as a mid,
physically fit, looked good inuniform, didn't really get in
trouble, mecky, my gradesweren't the best, but overall,
like, I think, burnett, that guyburnett, he's got order it.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Order of merit.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Right at 500.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Just like he's cruising, all good.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
But they're like the perception is the dude's good,
but deep down I'm like what am I?

Speaker 1 (16:54):
doing.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
I need some help and I said I'm going to make sure I
go back and help and I'm goingto impact every single student
that's in my class, Every singlestudent.
I walk by in the hall, I'mgoing to greet you, I'm going to
ask how you're doing.
I just I just try to be genuineand I try to be humble because,
if not, I may miss anopportunity to impact them, and

(17:18):
it's just, you won't get thatback, so just just interact, and
that's what made me want to doit, and it honestly has been.
It's not that the stuff's easy,but the intent is easy.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, no, and it's special, again, I love that.
I love that about the NavalAcademy because there's such
involvement, direct involvementfrom the staff and the life of
midshipmen, and it sounds likemaybe it's developed over time
and continue to to, you know,build into that, which is which
is incredible.
Because, again, for me, you know, build into that, which is
which is incredible.
Because, again, for me, you know, my number one mentor, like the
person who kind of made thebiggest impact in my life, was

(17:53):
my officer representative of thebasketball team, right, like at
the time, major Kruisinger,like that was the man who
carried me from from a reallydifficult point to adopting,
embracing, believing in thesystem, the process, everything
that was going on and made meunderstand the beauty in the
Naval Academy experience, right,and so I think it's really cool
because then, you've also founda way now to stay involved with

(18:16):
midshipmen, even outside of thedirect classroom, which is your
involvement with the formulateam, formula SAE, and so I want
to give you this opportunitynow to to talk about what that
is, because, again, for me, as amidshipman, my roommate was on
the formula team, so I knewabout it.
But if, if it weren't for thatand the fact that like he was
talking about, like buildingengines and stuff like I would

(18:38):
have had no idea that existed atthe Naval Academy, and so I
want to give you an opportunityto talk about all the cool stuff
that midshipmen are doing inthe realm of engineering and
automotive.
You know engineeringspecifically and just turn it
over to you there, sure, sure.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
So, so big picture formula.
Sae is a university competitionthat happens every year.
We compete at the Michiganinternational speedway.
There's 120 universities thatare led into the competition,
there's more that want to get in, and it's there's 120
universities that are led intothe competition, there's more
that want to get in.
And it's like no kidding, liketickets sell out in a minute,
like that kind of thing.
You got to be ready to registerand go and what you do it's

(19:15):
typically in our case.
For us we're a little different.
Being a service academy, we candive into some of those details
.
But we've got roughly 20midshipmen who are engineering
majors.
So a lot of mechies, a lot ofmechanical.
But we got aero, we've got theWRC folks, whether it's EE or
robotics, we've got generalengineers.
So we've got this group of acouple different flavors and

(19:35):
disciplines of engineering.
They're split up into sub-teamsCould be the powertrain, the
engine and that kind of stuff.
Could be the suspension and thevehicle dynamics, be the arrow,
the wiring, like all these subteams.
And you say, hey, this is your,this is your capstone, right,
your senior design project, yourcapstone.
But we're going to put it alltogether and we're going to make
a race car and we're going togo compete.
So it's midshipman led.

(19:57):
It's midshipman design,fabricate and and and test, and
sometimes the test doesn'talways happen like we want and
then ultimately drive or competewith this thing against 120
other teams.
The hard part is they got whatthey think is a year, but in
reality you don't have a year.
For example, that the nr 2016was formed around spring.

(20:19):
Just before spring break justidentified, hey, you, 20
midshipmen are going to be onthe team.
Well, before they know it, itit's end of April.
It's over six weeks later andthey're trying to figure out
what they do next and they don'tknow yet.
But they should be designing.
And then you go on summer leave, you go on summer training and
before you know it, you comeback, it's reform.

(20:40):
And then it's September andyou're like, oh.
You're like, oh, man, time togo.
We had time to go Right, so itis.
It is a really challengingproject for service academies,
but for it's a badge of honorfor these, for these kids, it is
like being I'm sure how it isto be a member of the Navy
basketball team or the footballteam or whatever.
It's something that they'regoing to carry with them because

(21:01):
they know they went throughthis tough program and, honestly
, it ain't the car.
It's a way to develop real lifeskills.
Leadership, especially peerleadership.
We know that's the hardest one.
We all can complain.
Up the chain of command.
We can go down, but somehowit's really challenging to go
left or right and try to tellyour friend, your buddy, your

(21:24):
wardroom member of equal rank orexperience, hey, step up or hey
, I need you to do this, and itis stuff in life that people
struggle with.
So it is a way to develop thoseleadership skills and the
communication skills, right tohave the backbone to talk it out
and figure it out, and thenreally just the project

(21:49):
management, because we know inthe fleet you're going to be
people, money, time, a mission,and you got so long to do it.
How do we do it?
And the car is just, in myopinion, a really cool way to
develop those skills.
So that's it in a nutshell.
Most schools we compete against.
They want a job in motorsports,they want it butascar, formula
one, moto gp, moto america, dragracing, whatever our, our

(22:10):
midshipmen.
Not that they can't do thatlater on, right, but guess what
we?

Speaker 1 (22:12):
got you, you got a commitment.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah yeah, you got a commitment, but after that maybe
some doors open up, maybethat's a resume, yeah for you.
So that's.
That's it in a nutshell.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, first question.
I'm sure the question anyonewho's like not super engineering
focused like me potentially howdo you guys determine who gets
to drive the car?
Who's the midshipman that getsto drive that sucker dude?

Speaker 2 (22:37):
That's always number one, number one, okay.
So technically it depends.
I'll say it depends, and here'swhat it could depend on.
It can depend on theinvolvement of that midshipman,
for example, if you are all inon it and you put in the hours
right and you're invested in itand I'm not right and I'm
slacking, I'm not carrying thatboat, guess what?

(22:57):
You got a better chance ofdriving than me, okay.
So that's involvement, piece ofit.
Involvement, piece of it.
Another piece of it is nokidding, this your size, okay,
if, look, I will never be, evenif I would never be, the guy
who's going to drive the.
The acceleration run rightwhere it's basically like a drag
shirt.
I'm 245 pounds, a big boy itain't happening it's not

(23:20):
happening right.
so it's the size.
So if we have, you know, afemale or a male who's smaller
in stature, who can drive, great.
And then the third piece willbe like truly, can you drive
right?
So like, do you have theability, the motor skills,
hand-eye coordination orconfident driving, because it is
, it's very for the listeners,it's very like autocross-based.

(23:42):
So imagine parking lot tightcones, it's not really wide open
.
It's very like autocross based.
So imagine parking lot, tightcones, it's not really wide open
.
It's not high, high speeds,it's incredible acceleration and
braking and G-forces andlateral.
You know lateral G-forces, butone from a safety standpoint.
We don't want college kidsripping around.
You know, laguna Seca or thecircuit of the Americas at 160
miles an hour, like that's notwhat we're after.

(24:02):
So everything's really tightand it's very challenging.
So you got to have some motorskills.
So really, size, involvementand motor skills.
And typically most teams willallow certain mids to do certain
events.
Like you may do part of theendurance event with someone
else and then they'll split it.
Someone else maybe, like I said, a small female lightweight,

(24:24):
she'll do the Excel run and thenmaybe one other guy or gal will
do the skid pad or somethingalong those lines, so they try
to spread that love.
The midshipmen decide, though.
Captain Hamilton, who'scurrently the faculty advisor,
and he's been doing it for over20 years.
He actually started.
He came here when I was a midand he was running at them.
He's like, hey, they decide,let them the mid and he was

(24:46):
running at them.
He's like, hey, they decide.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Let them.
Let them decide.
I won't change that.
I'll let them pick it up.
No, that's fair, and youmentioned this, like again,
teams, there are teams andthere's a competition right At
the end against otheruniversities.
Can you just talk a little bitabout, like what, that that
culminating event is right, thatthey're actually competing in,
give a little bit of backgroundon that, and like, does Navy

(25:08):
over the course of how longwe've done this now?
Like, do we have any rivals?
Like, are there anyinstitutions that are like
constantly like top tier in informula, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
This is good stuff.
Good question.
So again, every May, every Mayin in Michigan, we do the comp.
It is, it is intense, like itis an intense three-day event
and and where it starts with islike getting your car through
what they call get your carthrough.
Tech means it needs to betechnically inspecting.
There is 125 page rule book thatsome teams may miss stuff and

(25:38):
if you miss it it does notmatter.
You are not driving your car onin any of these events if you
can't meet these rules because,let's face it, it's a safety
chair and it's attention todetail, so that that in itself
like there are teams on a lowerlevel that if they just pass
tech, it's like a win to themand they might be a small
community college or smallcollege where they have six

(25:59):
people on their team or theymight be a first year team and
their goal was to hey, we wantto make comp and pass tech right
now.
Navy, we've been doing it longenough.
That's not we got to be betterthan that, but there are teams.
That's respectable.
Then you have the teams thatmake tech, who stuff falls off,
falls off the car in a rut, likeno kidding, like we're at a

(26:20):
mock competition the other dayand I'm gonna knock on the navy
team a little bit.
They weren't ready.
They should have been ready.
They weren't ready, but theother schools were.
So we went and there was one ofthe other teams and my son was
there with me because he loves.
He loves cars and he's a littlegearhead.
And the student comes up, saysto their team, leads like oh hey
, I think we have a problem withall the hardware falling off

(26:40):
our car and I mean there'sthat's's a little problem.
Yeah, we got a small problem butit's one of those like very
basic things.
And hey look, you got to test ahigh rpm engine.
Things are vibrating, they'recoming loose.
Maybe you didn't use the propertorque or you didn't safety
wire something.
And these are real skills.
That I look at it like ifyou're, if you're a jo in the

(27:03):
fleet and you're watching anaviation mechanic, safety wire
or something you're like oh,I've done that race car.
Oh, that's important, because Isurely don't want my aircraft
falling out of the sky, right.
So so you see that level ofteam of just they made it
through tech, now stuff'sfalling apart.
You see teams then on the wholeother end of the spectrum they
look like a no kiddingprofessional.

(27:24):
Nascar Formula One team.
They have matching, you knowshirts and their trailers,
wrapped in the car, looks likeyou know it's perfect carbon
fiber and it has decals that arelaid out.
I mean, it's beautifully,aesthetically pleasing, and you
know the fit and finishes Rightand all those kind of students,
Guess what they're going to work.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, that's good, that's going to be their career.
Right, that's their job.
Yeah, that's their career.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
So historically for Navy, I'll tell you this 120
students, the best we ever didwas in the 2015, 16, 17, 18 era,
so spun around.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
Come on now, baby, come on.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Those are my friends.
Yeah, come on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I knew it too.
Those are my friends.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, yeah, come on now.
Yeah, 40.
So top, you could call that wejust made the top third or we're
the top of the second tier.
Okay, which for a serviceacademy one year is very
respectable.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, so that's actually Because most oh, please
no continue.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
I was just going to say.
Most students on other teams,when they're freshmen, they're
going, let's say they're goingto Clemson, they're going to
Georgia Tech, wherever Purdue,ohio State.
They know I want to work forGeneral Motors one day.
So when they go in and they'refreshmen, hey, I want to be a
mechanical engineer.
And where's your car team at?
And every free right, where ourmids are running out there
doing practice parades andmarching to watch a football

(28:41):
game.
You know what I'm saying.
These guys are out renting andthey're driving cars.
We can't heck our campus alone,virginia tech.
They probably can roll theircar out into an open parking lot
and let it rip on a weeknight.
Oh, actually, our sister, oursister team, college park
maryland, they'll reserve aparking lot at midnight and run
their car for three hours atnight.

(29:01):
Well, guess, I mean, you'vebeen on the.
Where are you going to drive alittle race car at?
It's not going to happen.
No, one's going to let you.
It's not going to happen.
So we can't even get seat time.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
I was about to say driving a car at 2 in the
morning too sounds way less funwhen you've got to be up for
formation at 7 am too.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
No, sleeping in until noon.
After that's right, we have aton of constraints.
So for that era of team youknow, around christian's era for
those teams to hit call it 40th, like that's impressive.
And what did it was?
We had underclass involvementthere, informally.
We had fourth class, thirdclass, second class who just
wanted to be a part of it.
They were stuck on the yard.
They're like you know what.
And actually, oh, I get tuesdaynight liberty.
Nah, I'm not gonna go out intown and spend my money doing
stupid stuff.

(29:47):
I want to go work on a race car.
And those students, when theywere firsties, they weren't
starting from ground zero, theyknew what they were getting into
and it resulted in that.
So I told the current batch andwhen I take over next year, I
said if you can touch 40th,you're doing something.
So I'm trying to be realisticwith them and I would love to

(30:07):
see it because that's growth.
We need growth.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
We need development.
That's fantastic and Iappreciate you saying that
because that was going to be mysegue when I almost jumped in.
That was my question, which was, again, it sounds like a lot of
universities, again they dothis for four years At the Naval
Academy.
It's a capstone project.
So there's two, two, two thingshere that I want to kind of ask
about, which is one for anyonewho's you know, listening, who
may not be familiar with, likethe Naval Academy capstone, like

(30:33):
platform and project.
You mind giving a rundown on onthat?
And then the second piece goesback into underclass involvement
.
Knowing that this is reallydesigned for people in their
first year, midshipmen in theirfirst year, how does a
midshipman get involved if theywant to be involved as an
underclassman?

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yep, yep, perfect, okay.
So with Capstone in general andI'll just kind of speak, just
Kevin Burnett, the MECI side,the engineering house, right,
every engineering student has aCapstone project.
They do as a senior.
It could be a small team of two, three, four people that are
doing a, you know, ahumanitarian based project.
They're designing something forthe Navy, they're working on an

(31:14):
airfoil because they're aeromajors they're.
They're creating some you know,electronic control module
because they're double E, orrobotics or computer engineering
.
It's just a lot of what we'llcall small projects.
The car team just happens to beone where you put them all
together, right, where, let'ssay, christian was a powertrain
guy, maybe he was just doingexhaust tuning, like he designed

(31:35):
the whole exhaust system andfigured out how it would flow,
it would meet the soundrequirements of the rules, it
would look good, it would belightweight, it would fit our
engine, it wouldn't fall offright, like that's a capstone
project in itself.
And so, yeah, it's just a callit a small team project,
applying what you learned forfor call it two years in the
engineering classroom and thenfiguring out how do I design,

(31:58):
fabricate and test somethingthat meets some objectives, and
that's, that's a senior capstoneproject, the, the, the second
half sorry.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
All about underclassmen involvement right
and so yeah, like how dounderclassmen get involved, what
can they be doing, et cetera.
Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
So I will say, like there are hurdles for, for for
men, right, and like I said, itcould be the practice parade, it
could be your sport, it couldbe company, a mandatory event.
But I will tell you, teaching ayoungster, third class design
course for Mechies, and they arelearning SolidWorks, which is a

(32:44):
3D computer modeling program.
They're learning the basics ofdesign.
Well, one day we took them downto the shop where they met the
civilian technicians we have inthe shop I mean incredible
talent down there, machinists,folks who deal with composites,
welding, I mean you name it andit's a professional environment.
And we taught them about whatthese folks expect when you

(33:05):
submit a design drawing to them.
And I told them you can comedown here anytime you want.
Let's say you're in RickoverHall.
You've got first, second andfourth period.
What does most midshipmen dofor third period?

Speaker 1 (33:19):
They go second and fourth period.
Okay, what does most midshipmendo for?

Speaker 2 (33:21):
third period.
They go back to taking that.
They take it, they get on theirphone and they're scrolling ig.
Right, they're going to thelibrary acting like they got a
book, like, but you got 50minutes.
Go down to the shop, you seethat machinist down there.
Maybe they're turning somethingon a lathe, maybe the welder
mick is down there and he'swelding something.
Sponge it up.
That's so informal and youdon't have to pay for it and

(33:42):
it's right there.
And guess what thosetechnicians love that.
And then they build arelationship with you.
It's kind of like I tell mystudents and I can get to this
in a second but I say know yourserver's name?
Like, if you go to a restaurant, you come to my table hey, my
name's Grant, I'll be servingyou tonight.
Would you like something todrink?
Rarely does someone say, hey,grant, they rarely repeat the

(34:03):
name first off.
Hey, hey, grant, how are youdoing tonight?
And you're kind of taken back.
You're like, oh, shoot, repeatit by name.
I'm doing good, right, and youcome back, you get your drinks
and, hey, grant, where are youfrom?
And what I'm doing?
I'm just building arelationship, I'm being a real
person with you.
Well, now you're probablystepping up your service?
Sure, because I'm engaged withyou, I'm getting a better
service right and in the end Iget a good meal, you get a good

(34:25):
tip.
It's a win-win.
It's the same in the shop.
These guys down there they wantto build you stuff, these, when
it's your time, capstone timeand you go down there and you
say, hey, andy, I need you tomachine this for me.
Grant, I got you covered.
Buddy, I'll crank that out assoon as I can.
Right, hey, I need this welded.

(34:45):
Hey, I can do that for you.
You build a relationship, sounderclass, nothing formal.
Just poke your head in there.
You know what I treat them likea uniform.
A lot of JOs are there.
Oh, I'm scared of the mess.
The mess is at least in the.
CB world they are in.
You better be humble enough tosay hey, I know I got to make

(35:06):
the call today, but I don't knowwhat the call is.
I'm not afraid to ask you forhelp.
You can beat me up all you want.
I'm going to take that aspositive reinforcement and I'll
make a call and they'll love it.
You know CB chiefs, they'retough, they're tough, they're
tough cats.
But that's the, that's the shopsetting, right, it's, it's blue

(35:27):
collar workers who work withmetal and things like that, and
they want to help Jay.
They want to help midshipmenwho are going to be future CEOs.
So underclass involvementreally is the midshipman.
I love it, just involvementreally is the midshipman.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
I love it, just get down there.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Open the door.
Be proactive, ask somequestions.
Proactive you know, we gotfourth class and third class now
who just popped their heads inwhy the current team NR25, is
bum-rushing to build their car.
What do we got Three weeks left.
They got to be in Michigan inthree weeks.
They're still working on thiscar, never driven it yet, and
midshipmen are coming down thereand they're just poking their
head in and I'm like, hey, getin the chaos.

(35:59):
Get in there, roll your sleevesup.
What do you got to lose?
Man, take your notepad, writesome stuff down, cause a lot of
times, at least for me in themilitary and in life, it was
more valuable to learn what notto do than what to do.
And when you watch someonewho's doing before you, they
will tend to tell you what notto do, like, hey, man, when it's
your turn, don't, don't designit this way.

(36:19):
Here's why I can't get theengine in and out very easily.
Or, oh, my goodness, I shouldhave routed the wiring this way,
cause now it's laying on theexhaust and it's going to melt,
like just basic things.
So, yeah, midshipmen, beproactive, get involved, don't
be afraid of it.
Just get it there, cause thatis what that's really.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
It's really interesting, right.
I think again in kind of a sad,humbling reality of the
military is a lot of our lessonslearned.
Are our lessons learned inblood, right?
And like a lot of our SOPs thathave been created in the
service world, in the aviationworld, in the special warfare
world, whatever it is, the SOPsare created based on mistakes
that have happened, right, likethings that have happened, and
there is a certain level againwhen it comes to leadership.
Sometimes you see someone thatyou want to emulate and you want

(37:03):
to do stuff like them, but alot of our course that has been
provided that set the laterallimits for us, are based on
mishaps that have happened orthings that have gone wrong or
things that didn't work right,and so you know being involved
again, if you're activelyinvolved for four years, guess
what?
You're going to see a lot ofstuff over that four years,

(37:23):
versus that four week periodRight To be able to come in and
participate and contribute andabsolutely I mean, and that's
really that's what it's about.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
You hit the nail on the head, man, and honestly,
like I, I, I leadership's at twoway street.
It's reciprocating, right, it's.
So I tell the upper class I'mlike, don't be so self and not
that they're being selfish, it'snot but I was like your time is
very valuable, but don't beafraid of some short-term laps

(37:53):
for long-term growth.
For example, if you've got afourth class who's coming down
here and you're a powertrain guyand he and he or she wants to
help you, take five minutes,explain to them something,
because then they're going togive you three hours back.
But everyone's right, they,they're, they're, I don't get
time.
And then I want to develop andyou're like, okay, but a humble
leader says you know what?
Yeah, I'm going to invest inyou and I'm gonna spend a couple
minutes because you're a forcemultiplier and that's what it's

(38:15):
about.
So one of my, my goals is, hey,upper class, like it's not that
you're delegating everything,you're just investing in the
next wave and I'm telling youyou're going to learn more by
trying to explain to them whatyou need them to do than you
just trying to tackle it on yourown, and that always worked for
me.

(38:35):
It worked well with CBs.
I mean, cbs never worked for me.
I work for them Like whathammer do you need a hammer?
Today, I'll give you a hammer.
You want a big hammer, you wanta little hammer?
Oh, you're going to do concrete.
What do you?
What do you need to accomplishyour goal?
Now, that was for me, or theskipper, or whoever we were
supporting, but I work for them.
It's the same with whatever thecar team is.

(38:56):
Get your underclass involved.
They work like you work forthem in a way, but in reality,
they'll back you up and then youthat's your safety net, man,
and then they're going to dobetter than you and you want it.
And it's just, I think, humannature.
We kind of don't see the forestthrough the trees sometimes,
but you got to be willing togive up your time and invest in
people 100 again.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
I think there's a there's.
There's something reallyspecial, exactly that which is,
when you get into thesepositions of like military
leadership right, you're talkingabout kind of you working for
the Seabees.
Like military officership a lotof the times is quite literally
just being the champion foryour division or for your unit
to get them what they need to dotheir job right, and then to

(39:34):
again be their champion whenthey have something personal
going on in their life to getthem the resources that they
need to advance their career, toadvance their personal life, to
get them the help that theyneed.
You're not telling them what todo, you're fighting on their
behalf.
That's when stuff works.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
That's when stuff works.
No, that's awesome.
It reminds me I remember myfirst deployment.
We were building concrete padsfor the Osprey and I went on the
job site the first time.
You know, I'm a JG, I'm incharge of a group of CBs that I
probably shouldn't even be incharge of, right, it should be a
Lieutenant role.
They didn't have like I'm theguy, right, just you got them

(40:09):
and I go up on the job site andit was like and you wear a white
hard hat, like if you're seniorenlisted or in the wardrobe, so
it's like music kind of stopsright, like, oh, there's a white
hard hat, yeah.
And at first it was very likeyou know what's up, sir, what
are you doing that kind of thing.
And I said, hey, here's thedeal.
We're on deployment.
Who's doing the worst job onthe site right now?

(40:29):
Meaning like the job thatanyone can do with zero skill.
That is either really hard,strenuously, like you're going
to sweat, or it's going to justlike anyone can do it, just a
person.
I was like how about this?
I'll do that, let me earn mystripes.
You know what I'm saying.
And you take that BUCN orwhoever that low man or woman on
the totem pole is let them godo something that will help them

(40:52):
make BU3.
Like, go set up forms or dosomething technical that that
help them pass the exam, or givethem a little bit of leadership
.
Well, here's why that works.
They see me over there, I'msweat, right, I'm sweating, I'm
struggling.
They're going to poke fun atyou.
Oh, look at sir over there, butwhat you're doing is you're
building teamwork and you'relike you said, you're letting
them advance and you're alsochecking on things like there

(41:14):
were plenty of times where theyhad it but they needed me and if
I wasn't there we might've hadan issue.
But they came to me because wehad a mutual respect and I
humbly jumped in there first.
I wasn't micromanaging, I wasgoing to sweat with you and my,
my style is let me do that first, and then, when I really need
you, oh hey, we're behindbecause of weather or material
delays and we got to work.
You know, instead of seven tens, we're going to work seven

(41:36):
twelves, right, and it's ahundred degrees.
They're like no problem, sir,on it.
We got it Because you gave alittle bit first and we've got
to be able to do that, andthat's that humble leadership
and I wouldn't do it any otherway.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
A hundred percent.
This is a shameless self-plughere For anyone who is listening
and interested kind of in thisdynamic.
Right, I encourage you to goback and listen to the episode I
did with Master Chief AnthonyAmato, talking all about, like,
the first relationship with ayoung division officer and their
chief and how a JO shouldinteract with the mess, right.
And so when we use the termmess right I know Kevin had

(42:10):
mentioned the mess being scaredof the mess we're talking about
the community of chiefs at acertain command, right, like,
the mess is the chief's mess andthat's that's what they be,
that's what they become.
And so, again, it's, it's it'spinnacle, it's peak military
leadership is being a, is beinga young, 22 to 25 year old
walking into again, probably a40 to 45 year old, some guy

(42:32):
who's been in in the in the Navyfor about as long as you've
been alive, right, and and andand understanding how to work
that partnership.
Right, because if you don't actlike it's a partnership, if you
act like you're the boss andthey're there for you, it's not
going to go.
Well, it's just not going to go.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah, no, I got it.
I mean with with you proppingthat up, I got to run with it
because I got to give props,like again to CB Chiefs, you
know, the senior enlisted theyare.
We kind of fall like you gotthe Gray Navy, you got the
Marine Corps.
We're in the middle, okay, likewe kind of are in the middle
too the way we operate.
But we have, I think, the bestof both right Marine Corps.

(43:15):
They're very they got it dialed.
But sometimes that's a littletoo much.
We're not as gung-ho sometimes.
A little too, yeah, yeah yeah,yeah, but we're in the dirt and
we're supporting them.
And then you got the Gray Navy,which we're not ship drivers,
we're not on the water in theopen seas and we don't quite
understand that, but we're rightin the middle and somehow I
think CB chiefs they get it.

(43:36):
Somehow I think CB chiefs likethey get it and they are.
I mean, it's nothing againstsenior officers that I've worked
for, but I learned way morefrom the mess and it's because
they really care about you whenyou come in and you're humble
but you're also confident, rightwhen you say hey, I know I got
to make the call, but God gaveme two ears and one mouth and

(43:58):
I'm going to listen twice asmuch as I talk.
But I'm going to start bylistening to my people and they
were incredible and I also giveI want to give like the E5, e6
and the Seabees a ton of credit.
Look, I've never been on a shiplike in that realm, but the
responsibility that we give E5sand E6s and the Seabees is
incredible and they are likeworkhorses and they'll humble
you, like you said.

(44:18):
It was funny.
You said about like they'vebeen in the Navy longer than
you've been alive First uniforminspection I ever did.
Right, this is a good J O story,right?
I'm a J G, I'm at new school,so my career got delayed.
I'm not in an operationalcommand, so I'm basically a J G
and I'm a company commander of108 C's, filling for a

(44:38):
lieutenant, filling in for alieutenant billet and, and I
remember senior chief beck'slike, hey, you gotta do uniform
inspections.
You just pick a squad, pick aplatoon, pick a squad, we'll
inspect them.
Roger that.
Well, cbs, and this is pre-typeone, type two, type three
candies this is back in the oldwoodlands.
Well, that's all we wore, andthen you never saw them in their
whites like we're working.

(44:58):
But we got to do a uniforminspection once in a while.
Make sure they still own thatstuff and they look sharp
everybody's you know in weightstandards and that stuff.
So it's summer, whites, rightor white.
So I pick a squad and I go ccm1and I'll leave his name out.
I don't want to embarrass himby cm1.
I I got my little usna starterpack.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
You know what I'm?
I got my little USNA starterpack.
You know what I'm saying?
I got my little, your threeribbons, the national defense
and the pistol rifle.

Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, yeah, no warfare device, just looking,
you know, total newbie.
I'm walking in front of thisguy and it's like I can't even
see his, his, his, excuse me,it's.
You know, it's up on hiscollarbone, underneath his lapel
, and I'm looking at this.
You know 12 c-service ribbons,a bronze star with a d and I'm
like that.
Action ribbon, all of it,combat action ribbon.

(45:45):
You know, I'm like cm1.
How many sure I've been on, andit's just super humble.
God wouldn't tell you if youdidn't ask.
I've just, I've been on 12deployments.
You know two, two battalionsbeen at dev group, done all this
stuff.
You wouldn't know that.
And there you are thinking youknow two, two battalions been at
Deb grew, done all this stuff.
You wouldn't know that.
And there you are thinking youknow what, you, what you know.
You don't know nothing, right?
So they're the kind of peopleyou need to engage with and be
humble enough to say help me,help me develop, because I care

(46:09):
for you, truly care for them.
And they will, they willsupport you.
And and a chief a chief said itbest to me he's like our main
job in the Navy is to develop aJO.
And guess what?
You're like our quarterback.
We want to root for an awesomequarterback.

(46:32):
So when you stand in front of usat quarters, I'm proud of the
way you look and the way yousound and the way you carry
yourself.
I'm proud of the way youconduct yourself in the wardroom
, how you come on jobs, allthese little things that no one
would think about.
It's never the big thing, it'sall the little stuff they're
like.
I'm proud of you as awell-rounded person.
What we've made you, becauseguess what that's bragging
rights when I'm in the mess,because I get to brag to my
fellow chief, senior chief,master, chief, that guess what

(46:52):
JG so-and-so or lieutenantso-and-so is better than your JV
or your lieutenant.
And I was like I never thoughtof it like that and they're like
you're it.
And it was very humbling tohear a guy like you said who's
maybe I'm 23 and he's 43.
And he's saying, hey, I justwant to make the best version of
you.
And again, the mess, the CB messespecially.

(47:14):
I think had that figured outreally, really, really well.
So if anyone's listening tothat, you may be in charge, but
you better, better listen toyour team.
And it's a nice balance there.
And when it's, when it's dialedin, man, it's like a smooth
running, it's like a well-walledmachine right, a nice running
engine.
It works and yeah, I could.
I wish I could do all thatagain and then sure you know

(47:34):
absolutely.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Just to bring this back a little bit, just back to
the formula team, just to end itoff here, I think I think we
kind of answered all kinds ofthe logistic, cool aspects of of
the team and what they docolloquially.
Again, you would mention again,if you're talking to big thing,
academy insider, just gettinglike lingo and terminology,
right, it is the Nate, the Navyformula, society of automotive

(47:55):
engineers, navy formula, sae islike the actual term for the
entity.
You'll just usually referenceit as, like the formula team,
though Correct, correct, um,yeah, correct and so, and so
that's again, if you'rereferencing that, talking to
people, again you'd be, you'd bereferencing the formula team.
Again, no affiliation to F1.
Again, obviously the biggestbrand in the world is F1 and

(48:17):
it's a similar idea, but it'snot associated with the brand.
This is just the formula team.
And for everyone now who'slistening to you, kevin, like in
your opinion, like why shouldmidshipmen pursue this?
Why should they do it?
Because, again, from myperspective, again in hearing
this, and maybe this is actuallyone more question for you, is
that, like, this isn't a team,so you don't get to work on this

(48:38):
during sports period, right,like you're having to do this
during your almost academichours and so, knowing that and
knowing that it's an additionaladditive commitment, why, why
should midshipmen do this?
And what are they learning as aparticipant in this program, as
a part of the formula team?
That's going to set them up forlife.
That's going to set them up, foryou know, their time as a part

(49:01):
of the formula team.
That's going to set them up forlife.
That's going to set them up,for you know, their time as a
division officer or platooncommander in the Navy or Marine
Corps.
And what are.
What's your goal for all anyonewho comes through this, this
team and program?
What are you hoping to imbueand instill in them as they come
through it?
Awesome?

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Awesome.
So I'll just say that I don'tthink there's a better
opportunity on the yard for anengineering student to take what
they learned in the classroomand apply it to actually a real
world problem.
The level of commitment thatthey need to put into it is
above most capstones and, likeyou said, it's because it's a

(49:34):
daunting project that we can'tdo outside.
I mean, you do outside of youracademic capstone period and you
got, you know, late nights orweekends or whatever it is.
But there's no other chance toput it all together like that,
especially because the highlevel of competition that we
compete against and that comesdown to that rule book.
That rule book is so tightbecause of the level of

(49:56):
competition.
You cannot have a collegestudent build a race car and you
might not go through it with afine tooth comb, and that is
very similar to the fleet.
We have very stringentprocedures, right, you said SOPs
earlier.
We have rules and regulationsthat we need to follow and if we
can't even follow that, guesswhat we're not going outside the
wire.
Okay, and so that's likefoundationally kind of what I

(50:18):
talked about earlier.
Nowhere else do I think you getthe the chance to try to see
how good your peer leadership is, and I will tell I don't care
uniform or not.
The world is not good at peerleadership, or just it's
uncomfortable man, it's.
It's uncomfortable, it's very,it's very uncomfortable, it's
very uncomfortable right,whether it's friends or family

(50:40):
or right your neighbor oranother right, Another
Lieutenant commander or whoeverit is.
It's awkward and it's hard.
But I'm telling you what if, ifyou are willing to provide
corrective criticism or feedbackin a positive, professional
manner and you're also willingto listen to it, you have a leg
up on everyone else.
And we hope that the car teamdoes that, because then in the

(51:01):
fleet they can do that Again.
That communication piece, theproject management, the
engineering, all that's greatFor us.
It's that peer leadership andit's hard and, like I said, it's
outside of the uniform, it'soutside of just employment, it's
life.
I mean, many times I've heardso many people.
I'd love to tell my sister this, my brother that my, my
neighbor, this, my, my, myanother teammate, this, and they

(51:23):
don't.
And you're like, just go tellthem I can't.
You care about them, you lovethem, they are so close to you
and you're telling me you don'thave the backbone to try to help
them.
And that's a huge hurdle and Ifeel like the cartoons are nice
and it happens in Bancroft too.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
There's waves right in the chain of command there's
waves to hunt that out.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
So I would say that you know and this is not just
Machitman, this is students Iwant to say this to students who
are thinking about you know, Ilove cars or trucks or
motorcycles, but I want to be inthe military too and I think I
can lead.
Well, maybe a service academylike the Naval Academy is a
place for you.
And guess what?

(52:02):
You do owe us a commitment andyou're going to get more out of
that commitment than most.
But if you love cars andmotorsports, formula SAE is for
you and maybe you get after fiveyears, you get out there for 15
years or 25 years, but maybethat's a career springboard for
you.
So it's just incredibleopportunity.
And yeah, like I said, I wish Icould go back and and and
change some of the midshipmenstuff.
I mean, day one didn't start.
You know, I tried to make afootball team.

(52:26):
That didn't work and all thatstuff.
And it's like you've got anopportunity and just, yeah, try
to do your best with it, andthat's one of those
opportunities, love it.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Just, I'm reminded of a term that you mentioned.
You're talking about like beingin the middle between the
Marine Corps and like the GrayNavy.
And so when you reference theGray Navy just for anyone
listening, again, I hope thisacademy that always just
continues to be like knowledgeabout colloquial, colloquial,
colloquially I can't even saythe word but like terminology,

(52:56):
right, yep, the gray Navy.
So we always joke or not joke.
It's the color of the ship,like the ships are painted haze
gray, and so you hear the termhaze gray and underway, for for
ships, when they're, whenthey're out to sea, haze gray
and underway.
It's the same for surface ships, it's the same for submarines.
There it's that haze gray color.
So, again, when we mentionedthe gray navy, we're talking

(53:18):
about, like, the surface fleet,we're talking about the
submarines, we're talking aboutactual, like naval vessels on
the navy side.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
So I just I just wanted to throw that in like,
like yeah, even like aviation,right, like it's basically it's
kind of slang and honestly, Idon't know how much of the, the
cec or the cb say that.
I mean, I've heard it enoughand I've said it enough myself.
But around the folks and it'sbasically us just saying like,
hey, we support you, the grayNavy Now we also support, you

(53:44):
know, spec war and the MarineCorps and all that, but really
our, our goal is to help you dowhatever you need and that's
like the gray Navy, that's theline communities from, from the
officer standpoint, and we arehere for you.
And so, yeah, we're kind ofwe're the oddball, right, we're
just, we're a unique set and Ithink we take pride in that,
though, because it is, we'rekind of a hybrid.

(54:04):
You hear the dirt?
Maybe that's the dirt.
Oh, the Seabees are the dirtmaybe, right?

Speaker 1 (54:09):
So it kind of goes two ways, 100%.
Well, we'll get ready to wrapthis up, but one last question
for you, and again this issomething I bring up on kind of
every episode.
Again, you mentioned that youfaced some adversity at the time
of the Naval Academy.
You faced some healthcomplications that shifted your
entire Navy experience.
Based on everything that you'veexperienced, everything that
learned, everything that you'vefelt, how do you feel about your

(54:31):
Naval experience?
And why should a young man orwoman who potentially is
watching this, who's in highschool, why should they consider
a service academy education?
Man or woman who potentially iswatching this, who's in high
school?
Why?

Speaker 2 (54:39):
should they consider a service academy education.
This is something bigger thanyourself, right?
And you hear that.
You hear that a lot andadversity is actually okay.
You know it means you're, itmeans you're trying to do
something that's challenging andyou could even do everything
right and unexpected adversitycould hit you.
And actually it's similar tolike when I said a badge of

(54:59):
honor for the formula team,because that's my story is that
things did not go well and Ididn't quit, like if we have the
time, I'll kind of talk aboutlike it's like the man in the
arena right From reef points.
Right, you're trying, andthere's critics and they're like
looking at you like they don'tmean anything, right, because

(55:21):
they're not doing it, they'renot trying to do it.
And if you keep it safe and inyour, in your, you know, in your
bubble and it's protected,you're missing out on life, man,
whether it's uniform or not.
And so I tell any young personlike be humble, be confident and
go, go on.
I don't almost find adversitylike see, see, go on.
Almost find adversity Like seewhat your limits are and guess
what that limit's not going tobe permanent.

(55:43):
Find the limit, figure out howto fix it and build and build
and build and like yeah, I mean,that was me from day one.
Just a quick story.
Day one I got forgotten inalumni hall.
I'm not kidding Going through,I don't know when they dropped
me off.
05 30 06.
I was one of those early wavesget your little bag of reef
points, get your haircut.
Well, I had a tattoo that needto be reviewed.

(56:04):
Nothing, nothing offensivereligious tattoo.
It ended up getting approved,but they didn't.
No one told me right.
I was in alumni hall all day.
I got a box lunch in there andI don't know anything about this
.
I'm just like, just just sittingthere but I'm like I'm telling
myself oh, this is it, this isthe grind they're trying to fake
, trying to psych you out.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Yeah, it's not psyching me out.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Now I'm winning and I'll read I'm no kidding, I'm
reading man in the arena, causeI am the man and the only man in
the.
And this female lieutenant doccomes up and says I'm a shipment
brunette.
I'm sorry, but they're waitingfor you.
We approved your tattoo and weforgot to let you know.
My bad, my bad.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
I'm thinking who's day?
What's the oath of office?
Everyone's waiting.
So they rushed me in.
They rushed me through.
There's a bus waiting for me.
They rushed me to the mid store.
Detailers are freaking out.
Run up the steps, right GoEveryone.
My whole company's formed up onthe on the bulkhead, right In

(57:07):
the P wave, trying to use someNavy terms here.
Throw my bags in my room Right.
When I throw my bags and wemarch down, we do our oath of
office.
So I never even unpacked,didn't know what I was, and I'm
thinking like, oh man, what didI get into?
So adversity might hit you dayone.
Guess what?
Dust off, you know, get back up, dust off.
Try to look at the positiveside of it.
You might not see it at first,but it's there, I promise you.

(57:30):
And you keep going.
And when you get hit again, youkeep going and what you realize
is like if you go in the gymand you lift, what do you get on
your hands?
You get some calluses right.
You're building up a resiliency.
And it's the same withadversity in life.
It is not a negative, it is ifyou let it, you know, cripple
you and hold you back.
But it's actually a benefit ifyou can battle through it.

(57:51):
So for me, that's what I'vetried to do and I would do it
all over again, and I hope thatat least the next wave can do it
better than me.
And if we do that, like I said,we're going in the right
direction.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Oh yeah, love that man.
Well, I appreciate it.
I appreciate you using someNaval Academy terminology

(58:23):
no-transcript your vulnerability, sharing kind of your
experiences and your journey toto make it to this point, and
really grateful for everything.
So I appreciate you, brother,thanks for being a part of the
academy insider podcast andyou're the man, thank you no, no
, grant.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Thank you, man, you and your team.
You're awesome.
Just to be a part of this, I'mmore than honored and I would do
this again in a heartbeat withyou.
So if we got more to talk about, let's set it up again
Thermodynamics.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Stand by for a thermodynamics conversation.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
We'll teach the Academy.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Insider a little, a little thermo yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
We'll talk thermo and I'll talk about some, maybe
some more details, about more ofthat mid shipment timeframe.
I think there's a lot therethat I could unravel.
For some folks that I thinklike you're, it's basically
you're okay, we got you, let'sdo it, and you're not alone.
And if, if they can take itfrom me and at least make them
feel a little bit better, that'sa win.
So let's do it, dude.
Thanks again, brother, Iappreciate it.
I was honored and thanks, guys,Thank you.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of
the Academy Insider podcast.
I really hope you liked it,enjoyed it and learned something
during this time.
If you did, please feel free tolike and subscribe or leave a
comment about the episode.
We really appreciate to hearyour feedback about everything
and continue to make AcademyInsider an amazing service that
guides, serves and supportsmidshipmen, future midshipmen

(59:44):
and their families.
Thank you.