#095 A Global Perspective: The Olmsted Scholarship Experience

Discover the transformative power of cultural immersion through military service with submarine officer Sean Fitzmaurice. In this episode, Sean introduces us to the Olmsted Scholarship Program a prestigious opportunity for military officers to study abroad, gain language fluency, and immerse themselves in a new culture while remaining on active duty.

This unique path has shaped distinguished leaders and it continues to prepare the next generation of globally minded military leaders.

What Is the Olmsted Scholarship Program?

The Olmsted Scholarship Program selects just 15–20 officers annually from across all service branches. Scholars receive:

• One year of intensive language training
• Two years studying abroad in master’s-level courses taught entirely in that language
• $10,000 per year in travel grants, encouraging regional exploration and cultural immersion
• Family support, including stipends for spouse language training

The result? Officers return not only with advanced academic and language skills but also with a deep understanding of global perspectives critical for leadership in today’s interconnected world.

Sean Fitzmaurice’s Journey

From Naval Academy Brigade Commander to scholar in Estonia, Sean shares how the Olmsted experience reshaped his leadership style and worldview.

• He and his family took advantage of travel grants, averaging trips every other weekend throughout Europe.
• He learned firsthand how living abroad changes the way military officers think about strategy, engagement, and diplomacy.

Why Olmsted Matters for Military Leaders

Olmsted isn’t just about earning a degree or mastering a language it’s about building leaders who can think globally and act with cultural understanding. The program seeks officers with strong command potential and develops them into leaders ready for complex international challenges.

If you’re curious about unique military career paths or ready to expand your own, this episode is a must-listen. Learn what it takes to apply, what the commitment looks like, and why the Olmsted Scholarship might just be the most life-changing chapter in your service. 

The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.

Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.

He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that specializes in serving the United States Naval Academy community with nationwide consulting and connection.

We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.

Connect with Grant on Linkedin
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone and welcome back to the Academy
Insider Podcast.
You're going to get a greatinsight into another really cool
program that exists in thearmed services and that's the
Olmstead Scholarship Program.
Super awesome opportunity tolearn a new language, get to
travel abroad, study in aforeign country and get that
true cultural immersion that'llhelp you in your time as a
military officer, and so I thinkthis program is incredible.

(00:22):
I'm joined by Sean Fitzmaurice,naval Academy grad, olmsted
scholar himself.
He studied in Estonia and nowhe's the XO of a submarine, and
so we're going to get a ton ofdiscussion from his time as a
midshipman in the brigadecommander, some interesting
insights there into a ton aboutthe Olmsted scholarship program.
So two things.
One, if you're only interestedabout learning about the Olmsted
scholarship program, sweet, noissues.

(00:44):
Skip to.
About the Olmstead ScholarshipProgram, sweet, no issues.
Skip to about the 30-minutemark, because we're going to
have some fun discussions abouthis time as a midshipman leading
up to it.
The last half of the episode isreally where you're going to
get that deep dive info into theOlmstead Scholarship Program.
And then the second thing isagain everything that we talk
about on Academy Insider.
Here, the opinions and viewsexpressed by Sean belong solely
to Sean and do not necessarilyreflect those of the Department

(01:06):
of Defense or its components,and so you know we're just two
dudes here sharing some storiesand sharing some really cool
insight into an incredibleprogram that exists within the
Department of Defense.
So make sure to check it out,let me know what you think and I
hope you have a great day.
Thanks day.

(01:31):
Thanks.
Before we jump in, I do want tohighlight that Academy Insider
is powered by my for-profitbusiness, the Vermeer Group.
We do real estate consultationand connection across the
country for service Academyfamilies.
So if you're thinking aboutbuying or selling a home, I
would love if you reached out tome.
It would support me and supportAcademy Insider and I'd love to
get to talk to you about realestate as well.
So thank you so much.
Let's jump into it.
Hope you enjoy the episode.
All right, hey everyone, andwelcome back to the Academy
Insider Podcast, sean.
Thanks so much for taking thetime to join us.

(01:53):
Today Should be a funconversation.
We're going to run through yourtime at the Academy and kind of
really diving deep into theOlmstead Scholarship, which is a
really cool program that a lotof Naval and Marine Corps
officers get to take advantageof.
I just don't think it's verywell known, so I'm excited to
talk about that.
But before we jump into thetopics of the day, if you don't
mind just giving an introductionto the audience about who you

(02:13):
are, where you grew up, a littlebit about yourself, how you
ended up at the Academy and someabout your life and Naval
career since then.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Hey, grant, I just want tostart.
Thank you very much for havingme on, and I do want to extend a
sincere thank you to what youdo as military spouse as well.

(02:41):
I want to make sure we got thatin there.
You know, was not a forceuniversity but I'm a Naval
Academy grad, so been togethersince 2007, 18 years and really
so.
Currently I'm the XO on the USSWest Virginia, a ballistic
missile submarine, down in KingsBay, georgia, and this tour has
really brought to light howpowerful a capable military

(03:01):
spouse and supportive family cango.
So thank you for all of theforce, multiplication and
empowerment for your wife whileshe's out on deployment, so it's
really appreciated.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
It makes a huge impact to the military Well
thank you First off, I will takethat as a thank you.
So, for anyone who is listening, and my wife is actively on
deployment and it's weird, right, like it's hard and I, you know
I did, I did four submarinedeployments.
I've been out and about and youknow, when I approached this I
think I overestimated how like Ijust I just felt I was like, oh

(03:34):
, I've been on deployment before, I know what it's going to be
like, I'm going to be totallyokay.
You know it is what it is.
Being on this side is reallydifferent and it's really hard,
right, and I was like you know Iwas, I was going, I was like,
oh, the, the, the goodbye, likethat last moment I was like I'll
be okay, cause, honestly, andit's probably isn't that healthy
, but like I've become numb tosome of those goodbyes, like

(03:55):
that actual moment, just causeI've done it so much.
But when I got home thatafternoon, like she flew away in
the morning, but I got homethat afternoon and like sat on
my couch and I was like, oh mygosh, like I'm going to be by
myself for the next seven toeight months, dude, that hit,
right, that hit.
And it's just like it's weird,cause my life stays the same.
I'm in my normal life, whereI'm so used to having her there,

(04:16):
and then it's not there.
So genuinely thank you and ahuge shout out to all the
military spouses and Iappreciate that call out because
, yeah, keeping a strong familyand spouse engagement is crucial
to sailor mental health as well, and kind of like being able to
focus on your job knowing thatback home is taken care of as
well.
So thank you and back to you.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Absolutely, yeah, great.
So I was born in Springfield,illinois.
I grew up in Hingham,massachusetts.
I have.
The key to this story is I havetwo older sisters.
They're four and five and ahalf years older than me.
So with that age gap and havingtwo powerful, competent sisters
, I did whatever they told me todo.
That was kind of the way Iaspired to, how I wanted to grow

(04:58):
and develop.
So when I was in eighth gradeor a freshman in high school, my
oldest sister was at Notre Dameand she went to the Naval
Academy Foreign AffairsConference.
She attended that from SouthBend, came over to Annapolis and
I think she spent six straightmonths after the Naval Academy
Foreign Affairs Conferencetalking about how great of an
institution the Naval Academywas.

(05:19):
And as an impressionable 14,15-year-old kid.
I was like, hey, that soundspretty awesome.
One of my goals as I was goingthrough high school was to play
college soccer.
Ideally, if I could be at theDivision I level, that'd be
awesome.
Division III I was justinterested in going somewhere
where I could continue playingsoccer.
And so once I kind of put twoand two together, my dad helped
me realize that you know thatmovie Top Gun yeah, you can go

(05:42):
do that if you go to the NavalAcademy the things my sister is
talking about, from all theopportunities and how impressive
the midshipmen were.
And then once I realized thatthat was a place I could play
soccer, it rose to number one,totally top of the charts,
exactly where I wanted to go.
Unfortunately, as a senior inhigh school in Hingham,
Massachusetts, I was notaccepted to the Naval Academy

(06:03):
coming out of high school, sogot that rejection letter in
April of 2006.
And I ended up going to WakeForest University in
Winston-Salem, North Carolina.
So phenomenal school, had anincredible opportunity.
But before I went to WakeForest, in August of 2006, I
reapplied to the Naval Academy.
So the academy doesn't haveyour typical application window

(06:26):
because of all the congressionalnominations and all the
different aspects that you haveto do.
The application window isalways open, and so as soon as I
got the rejection letter, Iknew that was something that I
wanted to do.
So, without allowing myexperience of Wake Forest to
sway my determination, I saidthis is something I want to do.

(06:48):
I finished my application tothe Naval Academy.
I would have told you no way,no chance.
This is too good.
I've got a girlfriend here.

(07:09):
This is fantastic being in thisschool, I ended up finding out
in April of 2007 that I waswaitlisted at the Academy.
When I got that letter, Ididn't even know that you could
be waitlisted at the NavalAcademy.
I thought you were eitheraccepted or not.
And so I got a letter that saidyou're know that you could be
waitlisted at the Naval Academy.
I thought you were eitheraccepted or not, and so I got a
letter that said you're fullyqualified.
We just don't have a spot foryou, and so I ended up waiting

(07:32):
it out.
Send a couple of letters abouthey, I'm really interested, you
know, if a spot opens up.
And then it was three weeksbefore I-Day I think it was June
1st Ended up getting anappointment to naval academy
class of 2011 and since thenwent through the academy
experience.
I'm now a submarine officer andthe xo on the uss west virginia
.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, holy smokes.
And what was the because?
I mean we, we joke like there'sjest about like hey, eight
march time frame, february march, like no way I'm reapplying,
but at that spot you getwaitlisted and you get in.
You've done a year at wake.
Where was was like the drive tolike actually move forward with
that and go to the academyinstead of just staying in a

(08:11):
really good situation that youhad.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
You know, I think it was still the same drive in high
school.
Why I wanted to go to theacademy was because everything I
had heard about it was it's soimpressive, right, it's so
separate from all the otherinstitutions, all the other
colleges and universities youcould go to, and so that was
always intriguing to me.
And then, definitely, with myyear at Wake Forest, as great as

(08:34):
it was, I had friends at BostonCollege, I had friends at NYU,
I had friends at Columbia, I hadfriends at North Carolina,
chapel Hill, right, all of thoseschools like they're fantastic,
you know, absolutely enjoyed myexperience, got a lot out of it
, but I didn't see anydifference, like if I'd stayed
at home and gone to BostonCollege where both my parents

(08:54):
went.
It just seemed general, youknow, and harder to break out
and really get some incredibleexperience out of it.
And so that's really the allure, that selectivity of the Naval
Academy.
That's really in the spring,when I was at Wake Forest,
that's still what stuck with mewas, you know, a as a

(09:14):
competitive person.
That was the place that said Iwasn't good enough to go to.
So let's try to prove thiswrong.
Obviously that competitivemindset, but also just the
academy.
The allure of it is kind ofreally what kept me interested
and kept me going for that moredynamic career to where I'm not
going to go into the generalworkforce, you know you at least

(09:35):
have five years of militaryservice.
The excitement of it and kindof the value that that brings
and that's what kept the academyas the ultimate goal.
And I tell you, when I got thephone call to get off the wait
list from the admissionsdepartment, my dad noticed the
verbiage that I used when I toldhim the phone call I just got.
It wasn't I got into the NavalAcademy.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
The first thing I said after I hung up the phone,
is I'm going to Annapolis?
So the decision had alreadybeen made.
Is I'm going to Annapolis?

Speaker 2 (10:04):
So the decision had already been made.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Yeah, no, interesting .
And you had mentioned that youwere a good soccer player in
high school and you wanted toplay in college.
Obviously, Wake Forest is anACC school.
Like that's really hard.
Did you play soccer at Wake andthen, when you ended up coming
to the academy, did you end uptrying to play there?
What was your situation withathletics?

Speaker 2 (10:23):
I did not.
Yeah, that's interesting.
So, coming out of high school,soccer and lacrosse were kind of
my two main sports and WakeForest and the academy at that
time were actually oppositeswhen it came to athletic prowess
.
Wake Forest, when I was there,was the number one ranked men's
soccer team in the country.
I did not have a chance to tryout for Wake Forest men's soccer

(10:44):
so what I ended up doing wasplaying the club.
Lacrosse was developing.
They wanted to turn it into anACC lacrosse program.
I was intrigued.
I played club lacrosse when Igot to the academy, the lacrosse
team in the mid-2000s top fivein the country at that point.
I had no chance of trying outfor the Navy men's lacrosse team
but I did through high school.
I had worked chance of tryingout for the Navy men's lacrosse
team, but I did through highschool.

(11:05):
I had worked with the NavalAcademy coaching staff so they
were familiar with me.
When I showed up to Plebesummer they welcomed me onto the
team.
I had a locker during Plebesummer to be able to go sports
period and ended up making theroster for my Plebe year.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, so cool.
Well, I mean, what a funexperience.
And you know what other otherlike kind of along those lines,
did you play plebe year?
What other activities did youcontinue at the Naval Academy?
Was that something that you didwant to continue?
What was your story of things,activities you engaged in when
you were in Annapolis?

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Always my focus was just a huge sports fan and just
I could get interested ineverything.
I did play varsity soccerthrough my plebe year.
I got back to camp for thesummer.
End of the summer, just beforemy youngster or sophomore year,

(12:02):
we went through training campand I was actually one of the
last two to get cut at the endof training camp for my
sophomore year.
So it's like the day before ourfirst game end of training camp
for my sophomore year.
So it was like the day beforeour first game.
And that hurts really, comingfrom such a great you know,
having that athletic team andthat program to rely on,
especially as a plebe, and thencoming into kind of that
youngster, a little more freedom, somewhat more laid back
environment, to lose thatvarsity sport was definitely hit

(12:22):
home.
It was a tough challenge, acouple of weeks really to kind
of get over it and realize thatit was my soccer career done.
The great fortune is worked outthat I had a roommate who was a
linebacker on the football teamand the kicker on the Navy
football team was Matt Harmon.
He was a great kicker.
He was graduating with no realheir apparent, you could say on

(12:43):
the place kicking game.
And so, without any footballexperience in my life at all, I
ended up talking to thelinebackers coach through my
roommate who was the assistantspecial teams coach.
They decided to give me a shotand I spent the rest of my
youngster year on the footballteam as like the second or third
string kicker somewhere inthere, and so it was great.

(13:04):
At the end of my youngster year, end of sophomore year, they
let me go for roster room.
I was never going to be thestarting kicker.
Just an incredible experience,though, to be part of that
varsity football program, seehow it works, just kind of all
the engine behind what makesNavy football happen.
And so, beyond that junior andsenior year played club soccer.
There was a big changeover thisis like throwing it back to the

(13:27):
glory days now right, a bigchangeover in head soccer
coaches at the end of mysophomore year.
And so, with the new coachlikes to build his own roster,
brought in a bunch of recruitsand kind of wanted to start
fresh.
So we ended up having, I think,nine or 10 former varsity
soccer players play on the clubprogram, which made us

(13:48):
incredibly good to where, injunior and senior year, we went
to the national championshipsout in Phoenix, arizona.
So you know my athletic journeyat the academy.
I couldn't have written it anybetter.
You know sure I wanted to playvarsity soccer.
The whole time Wasn't getting alot of playing time, we weren't
winning a whole lot of games.
Got to experience Navy footballin all of its glory and then

(14:09):
just to win, get a great groupof friends on the Navy club
soccer team.
Athletically everything workedout great, but there were plenty
of highs and lows there as wewent through the athletic
journey.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
You put 11 guys who are good enough to play Division
I soccer on a club team.
You're going to go.
Yeah, you're going to have agood time.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
We were pretty dangerous yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Oh, that's so cool and honestly again, I think it's
really interesting, especiallyin your case where you went to
normal college for a year andyou come back Because of what
you mentioned, like thisprestige, this challenge, this
development that happened there.
How did you feel about yourtime as a midshipman, right, and
do you think that it waseverything that you were hoping

(14:54):
it was going to be, and what wasthe leadership and personal
development you experiencedthere?
And, kind of, how do you feelabout your experience overall as
a midshipman?

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, fantastic question, because it really what
the academy does.
As far as the leadershipdevelopment, I did not realize
kind of the path that I could godown, the path that I was going
down while at the academy.
So, and the year I had at WakeForest University was hugely
beneficial for everything that Iwas able to achieve at the

(15:24):
academy, really because of thelack of structure.
And so at Wake Forest, you know, making friends, you're dropped
into North Carolina out ofMassachusetts knowing nobody.
You know how do you makefriends, how do you kind of
figure these things out as yougo, you know, with no real
roadmap as to how you get to Xdegree.

(15:45):
You know there's plenty ofdifferent pathways to go do that
.
So, having that experienceunder my belt, when you get to
the academy there could be atendency kind of the path of
least resistance is just listen,follow along with kind of what
the academy is offering you,without kind of going out of the
way to build thoserelationships, grow that social

(16:06):
network, to kind of like engagein.
You know a great experience,both academically and socially
at the academy.
Obviously the social scene atthe Naval Academy a little bit
different than at Wake ForestUniversity, but there's aspects
that you know I was able tobring to kind of build that
camaraderie.
I think the real benefit of myyear at Wake Forest was that

(16:28):
relationship building,understanding, that extra
perspective where kind of theway I described it was you could
wait at the academy to kind ofbuild your reputation and your
influence based off of thestripes that are on your sleeve,
and that is like a very by thebook academy.
Path to leadership is, you know, first as a plebe you're a

(16:49):
follower, then as a youngsteryou start to dig into the
leadership courses, and then, asa second class and a first
class, you get some sleeves andsome responsibility and now it's
your time to lead.
Well, kind of what I reallylearned is if you're not doing
those things ahead of time,building those relationships,
broadening your influence kindof in your social sphere, then

(17:10):
you know that will become a hugeshock Once you do have sleeves
on your or, sorry, strikes onyour sleeves.
You just won't be prepared forthat responsibility.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yes, it's super interesting and you kind of
taking that proactive approachlanded you as the brigade
commander right In your firstyear.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat and how you know your
brigade leadership experience,what perspective it provided you
, as well as kind of somelessons learned in development,

(17:40):
because it is a reallyinteresting aspect?
Again, I think peer leadershipis tremendously difficult and
the reality is, even when you'rethe quote unquote brigade
commander and you're the highestranking midshipman, you're
still just a midshipman, right,like other midshipmen are
looking at you and they're likeyeah, dude, we're the yeah,
whatever, right, like you're thesame.
So what was, what was yourexperience as the brigade

(18:01):
commander and how was that likeas an overall experience in in
your life and leadershipdevelopment?

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Absolutely, yeah, incredible opportunity,
absolutely.
One that I still think defineswho I am today, even though I
don't rely on the BrigadeCommander experience that's how
I introduce myself in everyconversation but it totally it
changed my perspectivesignificantly, kind of set me on
this path of leadershipdevelopment as a deliberate act.

(18:29):
That was a big thing.
So we kind of talked a littlebit about kind of that
experience of how you build yourinfluence without relying on
the direct responsibility, theprivileges of the rank that you
have, I think, before.
So I never imagined that Iwould be the brigade commander.
I think most a lot of peoplesay that you know, know, there's

(18:50):
only two per year.
I actually went into the firstinterview with our battalion
officer and they said my companysenior enlisted leader chief
jim cornu, had put me up for itbecause it was second semester
senior year and no one wanted todo a brigade staff job.
You know, me included.
I just wanted to sit back andenjoy second semester senior

(19:12):
year before you head to thepolice, right?

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, we get weekday liberty finally.
I'm trying to have fun.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Not in my plans and so, honestly, the first
interview was with CaptainPhillips, was our battalion
officer and she asked me whatjob are you here to interview
for?
And I said brigade commanderma'am, because I thought there
was no chance that anyone wouldpick me as the brigade commander
.
So I ended up going throughthere's a couple of rounds of
interviews, which is it'sinteresting to talk about, as
you had experience as well fromthe Cleve Summer Regimental

(19:43):
leadership position.
You go through a couple roundsof interviews.
As those interviews keptdeveloping, Obviously I took it
very seriously and you know itbecame, wow, I have a chance to
do this, you know.
So, doing the research, talkingto who, I could understand what
was involved with the role andthen found out that I was
selected for the second semesterbrigade commander spot.

(20:04):
But I think that the realleadership, the learning aspect
that came from that is thelearning aspect that came from,
that is, prior to becoming thebrigade commander.
I had this idea of leadershipthat if you were really good at
whatever that competency was.
So I was the captain of my highschool soccer team and kind of

(20:26):
I had this model that like ifyou were one of the best on the
team, then you should be thecaptain right and you know, if
you follow kind of whatever thatregimented guidelines are and
you excel at it, like then youshould be the leader.
And so I was shocked at thebeginning of my time as a
brigade commander and reallystruggled significantly on just

(20:49):
what you were talking about,that spotlight role where you're
just another midshipman, whichso all your friends in your
company and everybody in yourclass just sees you as another
midshipman.
But then you take one step tothe left and you're speaking at
the anchor in King Hall oryou're in front of the parade
field or you're walking out ofthe brigade commander's room and

(21:11):
you're not just anothermidshipman Then the parade field
, or you're walking out of thebrigade commander's room and
you're not just anothermidshipman, then the spotlight's
on you, a couple too many ums,you know, while speaking in
front of the brigade, ormisspeaking, saying something
incorrect, amplified, and thepressure just was huge.
And so I would say by the endof jan I had kind of realized

(21:32):
that I was not prepared for thisrole.
Just the amount of activities,the amount of engagement I was
being asked to do from thesuperintendent and commandant
side, and then the interpersonalengagement with company
commanders, with otherclassmates, our class officers,

(21:54):
the brigade commander, classpresident, relationship is very
interesting, dynamic, Luckilyfor me, Mike Orzetti fantastic
guy we got along very well.
We still do to this day, butright, kind of that class
leadership versus brigadeleadership, dynamic, and I
really struggled, made a lot ofbad decisions because I was

(22:14):
still kind of operating underthat oh, the academy will give
me whatever I need in order tobe ready for this role.
They think I'm ready.
Sure, let's go do this type ofmindset and fortunately, the
Naval Academy with theLeadership Development Center
right At the time I think theStockdale Center wasn't really
called the Stockdale Center whenI was there it was just

(22:36):
everybody's loose hall.
But now it's the StockdaleCenter for Ethical Leadership.
Fantastic environment.
And Colonel Art Athens was abrigade commander back in the
1970s, Takes a personalmentorship role with the brigade
commanders, Met with him a fewtimes through the month of
January.
I basically said, ColonelAthens, I am not ready for this,

(22:58):
I don't really know what'sgoing on, Can you help?
And honestly, he gave me twobooks to read and I went, for it
might even have been a longweekend over Martin Luther King
weekend there and I read twobooks that opened my eyes, not
just because of the leadershiplessons of I remember one of
them it was Marcus Buckingham'sfirst break all the rules, and

(23:20):
the second one was now discoveryour strengths, I think is the
second one.
It wasn't the fact that I gotall this great information out
of how to discover yourstrengths and lead from your
strengths.
What blew my mind was thatpeople have struggled with this
before, they've written about itand they've studied it.

(23:41):
It sounds crazy that you couldgo four years at the Naval
Academy, become the brigadecommander and not really truly
understand that deliberateleadership study is a thing that
must be done in order to beready for the next
responsibility.
So that was, I would say, kindof a shock to the system.
Definitely put it into practiceas much as I could as a brigade

(24:03):
commander, and now that haslaunched me on almost everything
I focus on at this point from aprofessional aspect is how do
you learn that interpersonalleadership development, you know
, broadening those horizons sothat you're ready for that next
responsibility when it presentsitself.
Because in a lot of ways, thebrigade commander role even

(24:25):
though you're a midshipman, youstill have that spotlight with
4,000 other midshipmen lookingat you every time you walk out
of your room, which is just thedorm room.
But people are looking to youto be that model midshipman.
I don't know when that nextlevel of responsibility will
come as the XO right now,hopefully eventually a

(24:47):
commanding officer, and as thatbuilds, I never want to be
caught flat-footed, as I was asbrigade commander, make those
mistakes which could kind ofhinder the development, the
achievement that we couldachieve kind of as a group.
So that's really set me off onthis whole course.
And it all roots back to how Iapproached the brigade commander

(25:07):
job at first and then what Igot out of it in the end 100.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
I think those roles are so interesting as a
midshipman and it's weird,they're niche, right.
Like you have two brigadecommanders every year, right, so
you get two reg commandersevery year, like it's.
It's such a small minority ofthe of the midshipman experience
, right, but, but it's.
But.
It is fascinating, right,because at the end of the day,
you are both things at the sametime, which is you are just a

(25:35):
midshipman and guess what?
Your friends, like I'm sure abunch of the soccer team and a
bunch of things they're teasingyou about the fact you're the
brigade commander.
Oh, look at this guy walkingaround with the six stripes.
Oh, look at you.
Hey, attention on deck right,get out of the way yeah right,
like, get out of the way.
Yeah, so you're getting, you'regetting teased.

(25:55):
Right, you're getting made funof honestly by, like a lot of
your peers and in, but at thesame time and so you don't want
to give off this, like this auraof, like you take it too
seriously or you feel this power, right, but at the same time
then you take two steps to theleft, right and like, as a plebs
summer reg commander, right,like, yeah, now you're shaking
the hand of, you know, nateThicke, coming to speak to the

(26:16):
brigade at there, or you're onthe superintendent's yacht and
you're shaking hands with, youknow, a board of visitors member
who's you know speak in frontof Congress every day.
Right, like, you're puttingthese positions where you better
be ready.
Right, like, you better beprepared because you, you do
have a slightly differentexperience and you put in some
situations that that carryweight with them and there is a

(26:37):
spotlight on you and beingprepared for that is is really
interesting, right, and so it's.
I always think, like thoseexperiences are huge for
humility.
Right, to make sure that you'renever coming across anyway.
Also, being silently, like, orlike quietly, confident,
prepared for any moment becauseguess what, like they can tease
you all you want, but the momentyou're up there on the stage,

(27:00):
you know, shaking the hand ofthe foreign dignitary, the guest
or the presenter.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
Like you better be sharp, you better be sharp right
and see if I jump in, because Imean, you just made me think of
it is really the intersectionof those two right.
When your peer, it's reallyaccountability is what it comes
down to.
So we had I'll point to kind ofthe most uncomfortable
leadership challenge I had as abrigade commander.

(27:25):
I still remember it vividly tothis day.
We had SWO, their shipselection night.
We had SWO, their shipselection night.
So after ship selection, bigparty back at the first class
club, which is the basement ofthe O club there at the academy.
So huge night.
A lot of people, a lot of gradscome back from their ships to
welcome you know, if you were onUSS Cole, whoever selects USS
Cole.

(27:46):
You know you get to know themidshipman who's going to come
be your future ensign, all thatstuff.
So it's a great night, awesomecelebration, everybody has a ton
of fun.
But that night, our senior year, somebody stole a painting from
the officer club and so thatobviously didn't go over well.
But now you have talked aboutthe pure accountability aspect

(28:09):
is all right.
So our class is responsible forthis party.
Obviously we were involved inthe revelry of the night.
The administration turns to thebrigade commander to figure out
who stole this painting.
Really, you are heldaccountable for your inability
to keep this party under control.

(28:29):
I was back in my room.
I't a slow right and so thegreat, the great military
challenge of you are personallyheld responsible for what went
wrong last night.
Go talk to your classmates andnow, right, like all the great
friendships, relationships webuilt, now it's like, hey, I

(28:50):
gotta figure out who's introuble here.
Super challenging right to thenstand in front of just your
class and say, hey, you knowthis, we gotta figure this out.
This accountability problem.
Uh, and fortunately, I had theopportunity to go through that
whole experience and in the endit was actually a junior officer

(29:10):
who had come back, a grad, andthe painting was returned.
But just one of those wildexperiences that you never
really prepare yourself for.
How do you, as the onemidshipman who, like we were
saying, two steps to the left,two steps to the right, you're
hanging out talking with theguys and then the next day, it's
all right, we need to crackdown and figure out this
accountability aspect.

(29:31):
Yeah, like huge challenges.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Never thought never prepared for.
Never prepared for.
It's so funny I have.
I have a very similar story.
I remember it was plebe summerand I'm taking a nap during,
like towards the end of sportsperiod Cause like I'm exhausted
or I'm exhausted so I'm like I'mgoing to get like a 20 minute
power nap.
We're going.
I just remember getting like abang on my door and you know

(29:53):
someone walks in and they'relike, they're like hey, grant,
the the don wants to see youright now.
The common, like the common donwants to see you right now.
And I was like, oh, like youknow, you're like in that
frazzle.
You're like, oh, okay, like letme change and get ready.
I, I like I sprint down to thecommandant's office and he's
like Grant, and I was like, yes,sir, he's like I just saw one
of your plebes picking flowersas they were walking past into

(30:16):
like smoke hall you know thelittle curve walkways underneath
the steps of the bank or you gointo Apparently.
One of the plebes walking backfrom sports period had like
picked one of the flower petalsand he's like how is your
regiment so undisciplined Likeall this stuff?
Like just going on because someplebe decided to pick a flower,
a flower petal on the way backand like, and he's like
screaming at me about this,right, and you're like what,

(30:41):
what am I supposed to do?
Right, like.
And I remember sitting down andhe, like, he wanted like
accountability, he wanted ananswer, like he wanted me to
find this plebe who had likepicked this flower Right.
And and I just remember, likesitting down with Commander
Murnane after that, who was theplebe summer OIC, and I was like
what do I do?
I don't even know Right, andman, it just it is.

(31:03):
It's this, it's these sillysituations, but set such a fun
foundation right For the, forthe furtherment of your career,
professional career.
And that's almost where I wantto take this conversation now,
because you've had a reallygreat naval career and you've
taken a lot, or you've takenadvantage of a lot of really
cool programs through your timein the Navy as an active

(31:25):
submarine officer.
You're doing your sea tours,but you've also managed to take
advantage of cool programs thatexist that a lot of people don't
necessarily know about,including the Olmstead
Scholarship, presidentialLeadership Scholarships, being
on the Council of ForeignRelations and a bunch of other
things.
I just want to turn this overto you to get to talk a little
bit about taking control of yourcareer path, being proactive,

(31:48):
preparing for these situationsto get the most out of your Navy
experience, and then we'll divea little bit more into each of
them at a time, but I just wantto turn it over to you to talk
about your career path, thatyou've taken advantage of.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
Absolutely yeah.
And I'm glad you led with thepreparation aspect because that
is like the greatest messagethat I was delivered as a
midshipman.
That is, taking ownership ofyour own career, setting your
goals for kind of what you wantto achieve.
And so we talked about of yourown career, setting your goals
for kind of what you want toachieve, and so we talked about
that realization.
As the brigade commander of hey, this is something I really
need to study.
I need to broaden myperspective and understand, you

(32:21):
know, all these differentviewpoints so I can incorporate
the leadership best practices sothat we can be successful.
All the teams that I am put incharge of can be successful.
And so I was exposed as amidshipman to the Olmstead
Scholar Program.
I wish I remember who it was,but it was some professor

(32:41):
decided to do a one-hour talkone night about his experience
as an Olmstead Scholar.
And now he was back teaching atthe academy and it was actually
my plea year.
Here's a great varsity sportscapability was I had Navy soccer
sweatsuit.
The talk was for, I think,second class and first class,
but I wasn't in blue and gold, Iwasn't in uniform, I was

(33:04):
wearing my Navy soccer sweatsuit, so I just walked in and
listened.
They never asked me if I was aplebe or anything like that, but
it really launched.
Now I'm familiar with theOlmstedsted scholarship and kind
of put it on my radar, but soput the Olmsted scholarship as
one of my goals.
When I was leaving the academy Ialso had a great mentor, carl
Trost, admiral Carl Trost he wasthe CNO in the 1980s.

(33:24):
Through family connectionsended up getting to know him and
he had been the first Olmstedscholar 1960 was his class and
so he had talked about it.
I was always interested in itand then really set my goal as a
junior officer on a submarinewas to go apply for the Olmsted
scholarship and be as preparedas I could be to be selected,

(33:46):
which I was.
So selected as an Olmstedscholar.
I went and spent two years inTartu, estonia.
Before that I spent a year inWashington DC learning how to
speak Estonian and be able totake classes in Estonian while
in Estonia.
And so yeah, olmsteadScholarship phenomenal
opportunity.
But what they look for is thecareer potential for command.

(34:10):
Influence is really kind ofwhat it boils down to, where I
think you had a differentpodcast episode where we're
talking about the foreign areaofficer program which is it's
very similar in kind of thatcultural expertise and language
expertise.
But the goal of the Olmstedscholarship is to produce
leaders who are educated broadlyand ready to lead at the

(34:32):
highest level.
So if you point to kind of yourmodel Olmstead scholar, carl
Trost, former CNO, he's kind ofyou know, the poster child
because he was the first classGeneral Olmstead.
If I can just jump into a littlehistory of General Olmstead
because there's a fantasticacademy connection here, so

(34:53):
General Olmsted was West Pointclass of 1922.
And so he went to West Point.
His brother, gerald, went tothe Naval Academy, was
originally class of 1921.
But back at that time in WorldWar I they were shrinking down
to three-year programs to four.
They were going back and forth.
So what ended up happening wasGeorge Olmsted at West Point and

(35:15):
Gerald Olmsted at the NavalAcademy became first captain at
West Point and brigade commanderat the Naval Academy at the
same time, which obviously thathas never happened.
We're two brothers, it'sincredible, right.
And so General Olmsted ended upgetting out of the Army,
downsizing after World War.
I called back to active dutyduring World War II, retired

(35:36):
again and then called back toactive duty again in Korea.
You got a lot of the logisticsand kind of what would be your
government liaison roles in theprivate sector.
He made a bunch of money andthen in 1960, he endowed this
Olmstead scholarship, whichstarted as two Naval Academy
grads, two Air Force grads andtwo Army graduates every year.

(35:59):
So those were the six.
Admiral Trost was in that firstclass in 1960, and then rose to
be the Chief of NavalOperations.
So, like I say, that wasGeneral, that was General.
Olmsted's path was for officersto lead well, they need to be
educated broadly, they need tounderstand global perspectives.
Because he saw it in Japan withthe repatriation of the POW he

(36:23):
was specifically in charge of.
That mission was to get clearout all the Japanese prisoner of
war camps and repatriate theAmericans back home.
Japanese prisoner of war campsand repatriate the Americans
back home.
And also again in Korea, wherethose cultural interpretation
missteps really hurt themilitary aspect.
And what he realized was reallyeffective leaders are good at

(36:45):
incorporating viewpoints,listening and understanding with
compassion.
And so he created thescholarship.
It's grown since 1960.
Like I said, used to be academygrads, only six of them per
year.
There's now all services arerepresented.
They select anywhere from 15 to20 scholars per year, so
there's typically three to fiveNavy naval officers.

(37:10):
So that are selected per year,educated throughout the globe in
a foreign language, so youcan't go to England because you
know speaking.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
English.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
So you have to learn a foreign language which is
taught to you by the Navy.
If you don't have any languageskill to begin with, like I was,
and then go abroad to to study,earn, work towards a master's
degree ideally earn a master'sdegree taught in that language.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
But just an incredible opportunity.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I do want to kind of point out Admiral Trost is one.
More recently, admiral JamieFogo was a great another
submariner.
I don't mean to only throw outsubmariners here right, but he
had a great opportunity to meethim a few times.
He's now the president of theboard of directors for the
homestead nation.

(37:59):
Again I'm with kurt.
Tid was commander of south compretty recently.
He was a slow commander southcom and then kind of one of the
other ones that you'd see on thewebsite is John Abizade, who is
commander at CENTCOM in theIraqi invasion years, kind of
there in the early 2000s.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, no, it's so cool.
Sorry to cut you off Again, Ijust think this and I want to
like double down on it becauseit just I didn't fully process
it the first time I heard aboutthis, because I have a good
friend, shakir Robinson, who's aMarine Corps officer.
He just finished his Olmsteadscholarship program in Mexico

(38:38):
and I assumed, right, like, yeah, you go get your master's
degree.
I thought like courses would betaught in English.
No, no, no, like, whateveryou're getting your master's
degree in, like you have to passthose classes in the native
language.
Right Like he, he hadn'tlearned Spanish until he started
this journey and now he's liketaking master's level political

(39:01):
science classes andinternational affair classes in
Spanish, dude, like it's, it's,it's so impressive and it's so
cool.
And you know, specifically forhim too which I thought was
really cool for all my Marinesout there he actually took
advantage of what they call thecareer pause program and so he
was able to basically shift fromlike active duty to I think

(39:25):
they put you in like a reservestatus for a year while you
pause your service.
He did a year of travelthroughout South America to like
get a foundation of Spanish,like of learning Spanish.
Then he returned back to theOlmsted Scholar Program,
actually took a year of languagetraining and then just got it
and finished his degree inMexico and now he just returned.

(39:45):
He put on major, he's 04 backin the Marine Corps, like you
know, doing his job right, andintends to have a career in the
Marine Corps and, you know,hopefully battalion command and
above and just do all that.
And again, it's such a coolprogram that exists in so many
different ways and this is a bigplug for him.
Obviously he's just a friend ofmine.

(40:05):
He's actually writing a book itreleases in early June called
my Olmstead Scholar Journey Tips, insights and Stories for
Future Scholars.
So if you're listening to thisconversation, you're like man,
this is so cool.
I would want to learn even moreabout an Olmstead Scholar
journey or et cetera.
Make sure to go check it out,cause it's going to be just like
further dive into that.
But we're also going to take ado our due diligence here to

(40:28):
continue to like talk more aboutit.
And you know, I guess wherewe'll return in this
conversation to you is you knowyou've mentioned that it's grown
and that we have about 15 to 20people a year that gets
selected for this program?
Where can you go, like, what'sthe process of actually applying
and when you apply, do youapply for a specific like
country or region or language,or is that all kind of

(40:49):
determined on the backend?
How does that work?
How many locations areavailable and like, what's the
process that one would gothrough to take advantage of
this program?

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, that's a great question because that's part of
the ambiguity, kind of as youdevelop the Olmstead experience,
as it were.
So you apply through eachservice, so the Navy has its own
selection process and then theynominate about 10 finalists or
so a year which they send to theOlmstead Board of Directors and

(41:19):
they'll review and interviewthose 10 Navy candidates and
then select anywhere from threeto five for the year.
So each service handles it alittle bit differently up until
you get to the board ofdirectors where all the
applications are the same.
So the Navy applications alwaysdo in August.
And there's a few keycomponents to that.
One is the D-Lab, the DefenseLanguage Aptitude Battery, which

(41:40):
is just a test of thisgibberish language that really
tests your aptitude to learn alanguage.
There's some minimums that aremythically out there that you
know you can't be an Olmstedscholar unless you get 105 or
you know those aren't writtendown anywhere.
Honestly, from my experience,everyone who's selected, like

(42:02):
you, are going to learn thelanguage right, like that's
going to happen.
There's probably differentglide slopes of the amount of
work you need to put in in orderto learn that language, but
zero Olmsted scholars havefinished the program, like, oh,
I guess I didn't actually learnArabic or Chinese or Estonian
right, like you're going to getthere.
The D-Lab is really just kindof a threshold, like okay, I

(42:24):
think the board of directorstends to use it as if we're
going to send somebody to learnArabic or Mandarin.
We're going to want to makesure that they're they have a
high aptitude.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
They have a high aptitude for language.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
So that's really you know.
It's not a screening process,by any means.
So, the academy really, or,sorry, from the Navy application
.
It's very fit rep dependent.
So your performance evaluationsthat's where all of the
information is really going tocome from is how your commanding
officer has assessed yourperformance to date.

(42:57):
There is a personal statement.
That's in there, and then youdo submit a list of 10
preferences.
To get to your question,there's a few rules.
Obviously, it must be a foreignlanguage.
There's a few off limitslocation.
We don't send Olmstead scholarsto North Korea you might be
surprised, right?
So there's a few off limitslocations which are available on

(43:18):
the website.
And then, because it's atwo-year program, overseas we
also don't send.
Olmsted scholars to the samecity in back-to-back years.
You're supposed to be there onyour own.
You're supposed to have yourown self-discovery.
You don't want to have asecond-year political science
master's student just showingyou the ropes of kind of how

(43:38):
this all works.
As I walked into this Estonianbureaucracy that really had no
corporate knowledge of like, howdo I actually get this done?
And that's really the crux ofthe Olmsted experience.
So if you take a look at theOlmsted scholars, they just
announced in March is when theyannounced.
So if you want to apply nextyear for the 2026 application

(44:00):
window, take a look at the 2025list of countries and cities
that everybody's going to.
Those are going to be offlimits to your class.
And then you submit a list onyour application of 10 cities.
So you are supposed to rankkind of the city and university
that you want to go to, those 10.
And then it really is a greatconversation.

(44:20):
So I submit in my 10.
It goes up to the Navy board.
It's really one of thoseadministrative boards that
happens, I think, in Millingtonand then they just screen these
applications.
You find out that you're one ofthe 10 finalists and then the
Olmstead Foundation very familyfocused.
I mean, the whole scholarshipis a family oriented personal

(44:41):
development journey and sothey're great about you, have
your interview, they review theapplication, they ask you
amplifying questions about yourapplication and then kind of the
agreement is, if they want tosend you somewhere that's not on
your list which does happenthey may look at your 10 and say
, hey, I think you'd be a greatfit for somewhere else.

(45:03):
They will call you and havethat discussion right.
Hey, you know, tell me whatyour wife, what does your
husband think about this?
Like, are the kids?
You know, are you comfortablewith going to Tartu, estonia?
Are you comfortable with goingto Muscat, oman, like you know?
Because we think we'd reallylike to get a scholar there and
we think that you're the rightopportunity.
So there's a great discussionand we think that you're the

(45:23):
right opportunity.
So there's a great discussion,although they do rely heavily on
that list of 10 preferences.
That's really where they'regoing to base their decisions
off of.
But there are strategiclocations where we want to send
Olmsted scholars.
We want to get that experience.
The current president of theOlmsted Foundation, general
Scott, tells a fantastic story.
He was class of 1978 and hewent to go study in Germany and

(45:46):
John Abizade was a West Pointclassmate of his who went to
study in Amman, jordan, andGeneral Scott, major Scott at
the time, said John like why areyou going to study in Jordan?
There's 170,000 Soviet troopsin Germany.
We're never going to fight awar in the Middle East.
And you know, here we are.

(46:06):
30 years later John is thecommander of CENTCOM leading the
Iraqi invasion.
So you know just the foresightthe board has, kind of trusting
the process.
A lot of the ways is that theOlmstead scholarship is designed
to generate leaders who aremulticultural.
Generate leaders who aremulticultural.

(46:26):
They have that perspective andthen they're going to lead
forces, which is the hugedifference between that FAO
cultural expertise program towhere the scholarship is.
We're going to give you thisambiguous experience.
So you can lead forces in combatbetter.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yeah, super fascinating and along those
lines, with that being the mainfocus and you're saying
sometimes they have a little bitmore finger involved, like
fingers involved in your processand molding it and potentially
directing you one way.
Is that the same with theactual course of study?
Is there a design like you haveto get this degree?
Are you able to kind of chooseyour degree?
Can you kind of present whatdegree you want, or is that like

(47:00):
a specified part of the programthat it's going to be related
to?
You know somethinginternational fair political
science related?

Speaker 2 (47:08):
So it's definitely humanities related.
That is that's what we'reshooting for.
You know, we're not going to doa year of language training and
send a scholar overseas tostudy systems engineering.
You know, just do MATLAB allday.
It's really the engagementperspective, sharing
understanding aspects.

(47:28):
So, to answer your question,the foundation will approve your
curriculum that you're planningon.
So you're sent to.
For me, in my case, I was sentto the city of Tartu in Estonia
and then it was up to me toapply.
Good thing about Estoniathere's only one university in
Tartu.
It is the National Universityof Estonia.
So there wasn't much ambiguityas to where I was going.

(47:51):
There's one, there's like a.
Basically we would in Englishwe would call it Tartu A&M.
There's an agricultural schoolthat's also in Tartu.
It wasn't going to be on myradar for where I was going to
study.
I was going to study.
I don't think the foundationwould have bought off on that
one For your director of thehumanities.

(48:11):
There's a few scholars,depending on the type of MBA
program that's offered.
I know a few of them in Chinahave done kind of a business
development, but obviously in acommunist country that's a
fascinating perspective to take.
So they're not approved.
But really a lot of us focus onthe political science,
international relations,philosophy.
That's really where you'll findmost Olmsted scholars focus

(48:33):
really to kind of generate thatperspective and understanding.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Yeah, that's super interesting.
And again, at the end of theday you're a student and with
being a student there's a lot ofdowntime, right, like there are
breaks, like you have eithersemesters or quarters or
whatever the case is.
What's the general lifestyle?
Is there any incentive tocontinue again with the
discussion that we've beenhaving about the intention about
getting this really broad,ambiguous cultural experience?

(49:01):
Are there any incentives to usethat downtime to take advantage
of certain opportunities or gotravel, see different places?
How does that all fit into theoverall lifestyle of being an
Olmstead scholar?

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Oh yeah.
So the lifestyle this is thepitch for anybody who's even
half considering a scholarshiphere.
So, yes, you're a student which, after coming from a submarine
JO tour, the amount of free timeis mind-blowing, right the
ability to read and travel andenjoy the family time.
That's why it's such afamily-focused experience, you

(49:35):
know, and trying to include that.
And so it really starts fromthe day you're selected.
So my wife is an attorney, soshe couldn't join me in language
school, but that is an option.
The spouse can go to languageschool with the scholar.
You can sit side by side, learnthe language together.
Or, in the case of our family,the foundation also offers a

(49:56):
$5,000 language training bonusto the spouse.
So my wife was able to hire anEstonian tutor which she met
with two days a week or so, twoor three days a week, and we
were able to pay her an hourlywage for Estonian training from
the grant given to us by theOlmsted Foundation.
And then it continues whenyou're overseas, so you're

(50:18):
encouraged to travel the regionextensively.
So, obviously, being in theBaltics and branching out into
the Nordic countries was kind ofreally our focus.
We did make three trips toRussia.
This was back in 2017, where itwasn't totally unheard of, and
so we were able to reallyunderstand kind of the Soviet
occupation and what thatEstonian mindset is developed

(50:42):
from, by getting to know theneighbors.
And in order to develop thatregional cultural expertise, the
foundation gives scholars it'sapproximately $10,000 a year,
which is a grant which must beused for travel.
So I want to say yeah, sweet.
Like I said, this is a big pitchfor the Olmstead Scholarship.

(51:05):
It starts around $8,500 to$9,000, and then you get
additional money based off ofthe number of dependents so that
they can be included in thetravel.
But at the end of every yearyou have to account for that
grant and you write basically asummary of here's where I spent
the foundation's money and whatI've learned from it, and so it

(51:26):
is strictly travel based.
It's $10,000 a year to gotravel your region and kind of
like you were talking aboutliving in Estonia as a student,
not a ton of overhead on time orcosts, really, and so the
ability.
When we were over in Estonia ourdaughter was born about one

(51:46):
year when we were in, so we hada baby in Estonia incredible
cultural experience there.
Many Olmsted scholars do that.
So except for kind of the twoweeks prepartum or sorry, two
months prepartum and two monthspostpartum we averaged a trip
somewhere in Europe every twoweeks.
We averaged a trip somewhere inEurope every two weeks.
So at the time there were 27member states in NATO and I

(52:09):
think 30 in the EU and wevisited 23 or 24 of them.
That's pretty sweet.
It was incredible travelopportunities.
I mean it's just, it's the best.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Yeah, and I mean at this time you're still active
duty, right Again, I think Italk a lot about like these
programs in the military, thatlike you're getting your degree
for free, right, well, it's noteven close for you, you're
getting your degree for free,but it's also not that you're
just getting it for free, butlike that's your job, it's your
job, so you're getting paid.
Is that the same thing withOlmsted?
Like you're still earning youractive duty pay and everything

(52:42):
associated with that.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Absolutely so.
Your active duty lieutenantwhen I was over in Estonia, also
a submarine lieutenant.
So there's a nuclear powerbonus that I was still getting
every June 1st.
You know $45,000 dropped intoyour bank account for being a
submarine officer.
And so you still get all thepay and amenities.
You know the TRICARE, yourhealth care.

(53:06):
My wife had a baby in Estoniawhich socialized health care.
We were thrilled with thequality of care that we got in
Estonia, but the $2,000 birthbill was also covered by TRICARE
.
It was all approved all throughTRICARE.
For the health insurance side,still getting my normal pay.
And then when you're overseas,many officers are familiar with

(53:29):
VAH, your basic allowance forhousing, which is what the Navy
gives you every month in theUnited States.
Overseas it's OHA, overseasHousing Allowance.
Really, the only difference isour lease gets approved through
the Department of the Navy andthen they pay me exactly the
amount of money that our leaseis for, where BAH is a general

(53:51):
lump sum.
You can go lower or higherhowever you want.
We just had to get our leaseapproved and still got OHA.
So, yeah, as a student, with theamount of free time, the
ability to kind of branch out toall these different experiences
.
I joined a fraternity while Iwas a student at the University
of Tartu Right.

(54:13):
Just those opportunities don'texist anywhere else in the Navy,
to where you're completelyisolated, really on your own.
And that's the purpose of thescholarship is to have that
independent, critical thinking,problem solving capability.
So it was.
I went to a check-in in Naplesto get my orders signed and then

(54:34):
I flew 900 miles to theNortheast and I never saw
anybody that was in the Navy foranother two years.

Speaker 1 (54:41):
Yeah, holy smokes, what an experience man.
Yeah, I guess the one questionis always kind of what I would
consider like, quote unquote,maybe the catch, but again I
don't know that it's really acatch.
But again, when you get thisprogram, they're paying you for
your degree, they're giving youtravel grants Again, because
this is the Olmstead Foundationthat's presenting this to you.

(55:02):
Is there an additional servicecommitment that comes with it?
Again, at the end of the day,the intention of this program is
to take this experience andbring it to your command, to
bring this to your service, tothe nation.
So is there an obligatedservice commitment that comes
with it?
Or, again, is theidentification of the right
candidate for this generallylead to people that stick around

(55:25):
and kind of serve, whether thatbe in the military or in
government service?
What's their approach to thatsituation?

Speaker 2 (55:32):
So there's really both sides.
There's absolutely an obligatedservice but that's a great
perspective that you have that.
Also those officers who areselected as Olmsted scholars
they are selected becausethey've shown an aptitude for
command and they're likely tocontinue in their service.
But the Olmsted scholarship istreated just like every other

(55:52):
graduate education, which Ithink the Navy's policy right
now is time and a half, notserved concurrently.
So I did three total years ofone learning a language and then
two years in Estonia.
So I owed, I think, a total ofseven years starting from the
day I left Estonia, and so I'mbeyond that commitment now.

(56:14):
Really it's just for asubmarine officer.
It was a department head tourplus a shore duty and that was
all of the educational time thatI owed.
Where if I had gone to theNaval Postgraduate School and
some of the other, like theFleet Scholars Education Program
, a few of the other graduateeducation, there's no difference
in the actual commitment at theend of that.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Sweet, well, cool.
I think this is the coolestprogram Again.
I think there's so manyincredible opportunities for
service members, for the lifeexperience, for the cultural
experience, for the developmentin your own personal and
leadership philosophies, andjust providing that entire
perspective of everything, andso I think this is just the
coolest program and I'm soappreciative of you taking the

(56:58):
time to come on and talk aboutit.
I just want to give you anopportunity for any kind of like
save rounds about thisexperience, anything that you
wanted to talk about, what did Inot ask you that you wanted to,
you know, discuss in thisperiod what you know, whether
it's about your time at theNaval Academy, your time in the
Olmstead Scholarship or justyour time as a submarine officer
that you'd want to, you know,speak to directly either

(57:19):
midshipmen, future midshipmenand their families.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, just from theOlmstead Scholar perspective
specifically, is the guidance.
You're right, this is not avery well known program.
It's because the foundationitself is a 501c3, and they
can't advertise, right?
So it's up to us as formerscholars to go out meet junior
officers, talk to people likeyou about hey, this is my

(57:43):
experience, you know, to spreadthe word of the program, there's
a lot of in-service things likethe detailers.
When the submarine detailerscome they mention the Olmstead
Scholar Program as a potentialshore duty option but they don't
have the breadth of experiencethat somebody who did the
program has.
So in order to kind of encourageand really to weed out some of

(58:09):
the questions that might exist,if you're interested in Olmstead
Scholarship, you can create ausername and password on
olmsteadfoundationorg.
You become a member as aprospective applicant and you
have access to the reports thatOnset Scholars file at the end
of every year.
So one is called theregistration report.

(58:30):
So you file that with thefoundation.
I think mine is like 25 pages.
It's a lot of information abouthow the application process
works, like how did I end up inTartu, estonia?
What were the challenges aboutall the bureaucracy there?
To ship my car from the UnitedStates to Estonia.
What were the challenges aboutall the bureaucracy there to
ship my car from the UnitedStates to Estonia?
It's all kind of those thingsyou need to figure out.
That exists in the registrationreport and then you get a first

(58:52):
year and a second year reportand you can search them by
recency chronologically you canlook at, like, the class of 2024
, where their reports are.
You can search by I'minterested in Estonia.
Let me take a look at the.
There's only been threescholars ever in Estonia.
We just named our fourth in Mayor sorry, march, right, and so
you can say I'm interested inEstonia.

(59:13):
Let me look at all of theirreports so that information is
out there and just kind of thatcamaraderie community experience
that is, the Olmsted experienceis fantastic.
So if anybody is remotelyinterested in the program, reach
out to an Olmstead scholar, youknow, just to share that
experience.
I had a great opportunity.
As I said, my Olmstead journeyis something that I always

(59:35):
wanted to shoot for While I wasin the application process in
April of 2015, john Ahlstrom,who has just completed his
Olmsted Scholar program.
He was a PXO and he came onboard my submarine for training
and he said what are youthinking about doing for shore
duty?
And I said I really want to bean Olmsted Scholar.

(59:55):
And he said I was an OlmstedScholar two months ago, let's
talk.
And that is really whatsolidified my application, kind
of gave me all those pointers,the inside information about
kind of how to craft thisapplication.
You know what to put in yourfit reps.
That type of aspect justmeeting him, being able to talk
to him and then him introducingme to a few other scholars is

(01:00:15):
really what made it happen.
So the best advice I can giveis, whether it's Olmsted
scholarship or whatever you wantyour career to become, be
aggressive to get out there,gain those experiences.
Because if you sit in therudimentary, step by step like
I'm going to learn just what theNavy tells me to do and I'll

(01:00:35):
learn it just in time to becomea department head, and then I'll
go to department head and thensend me to PXO school and then
I'll learn how to be an XO it'snot going to result in success.
So set those goals about whatit is you want to achieve, you
know, establish those timelinesand then aggressively kind of go
seek them out and make surethat you always have something

(01:00:56):
that you're shooting for.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Oh yeah, I love it.
Also thanks for thanks forshaving your dirty mustache
before the interview the old,the old submariner, the old
submariner stache baby.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
For a recording.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
For crew camaraderie.
Right there, just a couple ofdudes growing some sweet staches
, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:19):
Yeah, my warden is going to.
Let me hear it in the morningwhen I show up with my mustache.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Well, sean, genuinely thank you so much for taking
the time to talk about all thisstuff today.
We really appreciate it.
And for anyone listening again,you know, reach out to me,
we'll be sure to get youinformation about the you know,
the Olmstead Scholarship Programand for anyone who's out there
who's been an Olmstead scholarthat just you know wants to
touch base with me.
So if people reach out and askto, you know, you know, build a,

(01:01:47):
build a list, but obviously,again, you can go to the
Olmstead you know foundation tofind these people as well.
But I would love to stayconnected, to connect people who
may be interested in theprogram and, you know, provide
this mentorship or an ability tohave these conversations, and I
love it.
Thank you, stay safe.
I know you're getting ready toagain.
You're in a sea tour and guesswhat, when you're in a sea tour,

(01:02:07):
you go to sea.
So, you know, thank you foryour time again and be safe, and
we really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:13):
Thank you, grant, really appreciate it and I
appreciate the audience you'rereaching out to.
This whole program is fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
And Academy Insider.
I hope you have a good rest ofyour day, thank you.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of the Academy
Insider Podcast.
I really hope you liked it,enjoyed it and learned something
during this time.
If you did, please feel free tolike and subscribe or leave a
comment about the episode.
We really appreciate to hearyour feedback about everything
and continue to make AcademyInsider an amazing service that

(01:02:49):
guides, serves and supportsmidshipmen, future midshipmen
and their families.
Thank you.