April 22, 2024 • 26 mins
There comes a time in every successful entrepreneur's life when they just "know" (hopefully). It might be a key event, your inner voice or a gut feeling but some where along the journey, something happened that clued you in that you were really on to something. This week, Stacee and Ira share their special moment.
Special mentions this week:
Adam Little
Elizabeth Green
Ed Catmull
Amy Wallace
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stacee (00:42):
What's happening Ira?
Ira (00:44):
Hey, it's been a little while how you been Stacee?
Stacee (00:47):
Good, it has been a while We've been off
interviewing other entrepreneurs.
Ira (00:53):
We opened our relationship for a couple of episodes.
Stacee (00:57):
So you had the opportunity to interview Dr.
Adam Little and I had theopportunity to interview Beth
Green and I just have to say Ilistened to your interview with
Adam and I thought, wow, it wasso good.
I didn't actually know his storythat deeply and I know Adam,
(01:19):
but he talked about his journeyof starting a company and then
ultimately having it fail andwind down, and he did it with
such honesty and integrity andgenuineness.
I just found myself becomingmore of an Adam Little fan now,
(01:40):
because you really can see whata good person he is.
Ira (01:44):
Just appreciation for his really mature perspective on
everything that happened alongthe way, and I think it takes an
uncanny degree of acceptanceand coming to terms with the
things that went wrong and tohear him tell the story like he
does it, from both this kind oflike really detached and deeply
(02:08):
analytical mindset, but clearlyvery attached and, you know,
cared a lot about what he wasdoing and disappointed about the
things that you know didn't goas well as he hoped it would.
what do you think's gonnahappen to adam?
I mean, the easy answer is hewill be incredibly successful at
(02:30):
building something awesomesooner than later, and I think
that's right.
Stacee (02:35):
I think he's gonna come in like now.
The most uh powerful lessonsyou learn are the ones when you
fail right yeah, he.
He's going to come in like aHarry Potter.
It's going to be like a wizardof magical sorts that's going to
do something, and I don't wantto put pressure on him if he's
listening, but I just I feellike that's going to happen.
Ira (02:59):
Yeah, there's all sorts of ways to measure success.
Sorts of ways to measuresuccess and I know we've talked
about this before, but so muchof how I've evolved to think
about success is to feel likeyou did things the right way
along your journey.
I was recently talking to anentrepreneur whose business
(03:22):
recently shut down and it justsort of shared my perspective,
like you know, really it was afive-year run like
congratulations on just likedoing everything the right way
and and being grounded in thepassion for what you're doing.
But you know, kind of doing itwith integrity and you know, in
this case, sort of you knowreally sort of focusing on on
(03:42):
the science of what you're doingwas was the right way to do it,
and you know, in this case,sort of you know really sort of
focusing on the science of whatyou're doing was the right way
to do it, and you know the factthat things didn't work out was
not your fault, right.
And yeah, I think to apply thatlike he's been very successful,
even though the thing he wastrying to build ultimately did
fail, and he will continue to besuccessful.
Stacee (04:05):
That's really, yeah, that's really insightful.
And I think too I mean, nowthat I'm over the hump, over 50
years old, and I'm, you know, myparents are in their seventies
now and I talk to them a lot andyou look back and you think,
man, when I was 20, 30, 40, it'sway way better to take a shot
(04:31):
and fail than to wonder whatwould have happened if you had
tried this thing that requiredyou to bet on yourself.
And I feel like a lot of peopleare stuck in that dilemma and
they are in a job that theydon't really love.
They're making possibly a lotof money or they're just making
(04:51):
enough to get by, but they wishthey, their passion is to do
something else, and I am likeI'm going to just say double
down on yourself and do thesomething else.
At least try.
Even if you try it and you fail,give yourself some guardrails,
like, if I lose this much moneyor whatever, I mean, do make
(05:13):
sure first you have a home andfood and for your family.
So you can't, like, just livein a tent?
Well, I suppose you could, butwe don't recommend this.
But there's a lot of thingspeople can downgrade in their
life to take a chance and Ithink you'll feel so much better
when you're on the other sideof 50.
(05:33):
To say I did try this thing.
It didn't work out, but now Iknow that's different than
saying I wish.
I wonder what my life wouldhave been like had I done this.
Ira (05:47):
I think, especially when thinking about you know
professionals, like people thathave, you know, extensive
credentials in education, werereally important and made me the
happiest, I sort of look backand say those really weren't the
things.
It was different things.
And even now, as I sort of lookahead, I struggle to sort of
(06:23):
answer that question for myself,like what are the things that
you know?
I will look back on, you know,20 years from now and feel the
way I feel now about the thingsI did 10, 20 years ago Right.
Stacee (06:36):
Yeah, so crazy.
And then Beth's interview was.
Ira (06:41):
What a powerhouse man.
I mean.
Stacee (06:44):
She is just, you know, amazingly, you know insightful,
you, you know passionate as well, and um and a pretty wild story
and now I can't drive by anin-and-out burger store with a
burger restaurant withoutthinking of her, because we were
(07:06):
talking about staying in yourlane and how.
There's one restaurant I havein my town and they serve, you
know, pizza, burgers, pasta,like all the stuff, and it's
such a great metaphor for beingan entrepreneur of a startup.
Because you want to solve allthese problems, you get out of
(07:26):
your lane.
Just In-n-O ut an ut burger.
Just do the one thing, really,really, really well.
Or a Chick-fil-A, like, just dothat.
And so I think-.
Ira (07:39):
Everybody really wants and they will line up for hours to
wait for right.
Stacee (07:44):
It is crazy, the lines at the in and out burger and the
lines at the Chick-fil-A everyday, all day.
Ira (07:52):
It's been that way for years.
Stacee (07:53):
It's crazy, and I've eaten there, obviously at both
of them.
To be honest, it's not earthshattering to me.
I don't really feel like, oh myGod, I could never get this
flavor anywhere else on theplanet.
So I think they're a mastergenius at what they've done.
Okay, so let's dig into thequestion of the day, which is
(08:30):
when did you know?
When did you know you were onto something, or when did you
know your company was going totake off?
There are many times that thisquestion could apply in your
journey, so tell us about one ofthem.
Ira (08:46):
It is really hard because I would say, in some, some ways,
I never really felt that wayuntil the very, very end, in
terms of, you know, just becauseyou had a good year doesn't
mean next year is going to be agood year, and always sort of
had nerves about trying tocontinue to grow and, you know,
have a product that people likedand we also started with pretty
(09:12):
modest goals of like.
You know, it would just be coolif a handful of people found
this, used it and benefited fromit.
But I think, you know, the firsttime that I really feel like we
knew was related to this issue,that this would have been back
in like 2006, and at the time,you know, there wasn't like an
(09:35):
amazon where you kept all ofyour servers and the like.
We actually had, you know, builta server and it lived in the
closet where you could take careof it and upgrade it, and our
head of technology had built itfor what we told him to build it
for, which was, you know, like,I don't know, like maybe, if we
do really well, we might havelike a hundred users trying to
access information at a time and, um, within a few months of
(10:00):
launching the product and a fewmonths before board exams were
like everybody was on there andstudying and we had 16, 1700
people that had signed up forour course in that first year,
which was completely unexpected,and so, of course, the server
wasn't very happy about this,right Like it started slowing
down and having problems and westarted to get a bunch of
(10:21):
complaints from people likewhat's going on here and on the
one hand like it was great.
People were trying to use it andwere actually upset that they
couldn't access this tool thatwe had created for them.
But of course, the reality wasthis was terrible.
People were counting on us andthey were paying us to help them
and they were not having a goodexperience during these days.
(10:42):
And I got a really angry callfrom our head of developer and
it's like what's going on here.
I was like why is the serverhaving so much activity?
You had told me to build it forX and we're experiencing Y.
And I think that was when wefirst realized like oh my gosh,
like not only are people signingup, but like everybody's
(11:03):
actually using it so much sothat it's kind of crashing our
server and we need to, on thefly, figure out how to upgrade
our server, improve sort of theway data is being accessed so
that it's not slowing thingsdown as much, and do all this
immediately.
And fortunately, you know wehad a lot of wonderful help to
(11:27):
get this done pretty quickly andeverybody ended up being happy,
ultimately, that you know weweren't slowed down indefinitely
leading up to boards, but youknow we had to send out a big
letter to everybody saying we'rereally sorry.
The last couple of days havebeen, you know, slow, especially
at peak times, but we've madesome upgrades and we expect that
(11:50):
this is going to make thingsbetter and please let us know if
anybody's experiencing anyproblems.
We appreciate your patienceduring this moment and I think
that was when we really realized, oh, everybody's actually using
this and counting on us andthey're mad at us all at the
same time.
Stacee (12:09):
Yeah, it's so funny.
You're hoping for nice steadyclips of growth and then you
open the floodgates and I wonderif that's a lot.
How many of the telemedicinecompanies felt when COVID hit?
Can you imagine like you're nothaving a ton of traction and
(12:29):
then some inflection point hits,COVID and suddenly you have
hundreds of people signing upthat have no idea what they are
doing.
Ira (12:41):
Well about you.
When did you know?
Stacee (12:45):
Well for me.
I remember this funny story.
So I had this idea that Iwanted to put a loyalty program
in the app.
I just had this thing at mypractice.
I hadn't really not thought alot at all about building it for
anybody else but myself, and soI was in need of an oil change.
(13:10):
You might have heard me tellthis story before.
I was in need of an oil changefor my car and, working at a vet
hospital on the floor andmanaging I was literally working
60 to 70 hours a week, I wouldimagine and so on my one day off
I went to get my oil changed,which sounds okay, not whatever.
(13:31):
But I drove way far away to getmy oil changed because I wanted
to go to the Jiffy Lube,because I had this like stamp
card, and when you got six oilchanges, you got the seventh
free, got the seventh free, andironically there is a place to
(13:54):
change your oil like literallynext door to my practice.
But I didn't go to that, like anormal person would have
dropped their car off beforework and picked it up after, but
not me.
I wasted like two hours of myone day off to drive there, sit
there, do that, and I startedrecognizing this and I thought
what's wrong with me?
Why would I do such a thing tosave you know, $60 and maybe in
(14:17):
about three years?
And I realized that it was astamp card.
I had succumbed to this, youknow, hopeful idea that I was
investing in myself, and so Istarted to put this into my app.
I thought, okay, this couldwork.
I would give clients a stamp,if you will, for every $100 they
(14:43):
spent, and then when they got12 stamps, they get $100 credit
at the account.
And I thought it was a goodidea.
But I did zero A-B testing, Ijust did it and I thought, well,
I'll see what happens.
And right off the bat, I had tosee one of the most difficult
clients at the practice.
(15:05):
I mean, you have some of these,right?
Ira (15:07):
I might have had a few in my time, yeah.
Stacee (15:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and this was a a husband wife duo
that you know.
The wife was super nice and thehusband, who will call Bob, was
difficult, so difficult thatonly I could see him, cause he
raised so much hell and you knowhe was a good pet owner, but he
was a difficult guy.
(15:29):
So, anyways, he brings his dogin one day and he's always
complaining about money.
This guy, the wife doesn't, butthis guy, he's always making
snide comments and jabbing me alittle bit about our fees and
how he owns the wing of thepractice and all this stuff.
So he brings his dog in and Itell him all right, you know,
(15:51):
she's sick enough, we're goingto have to do some tests on her
and I need to do some lab workand some x-rays.
He's like well, how much isthat going to cost?
So I tell him it's going to.
I threw some.
I'm notorious for just throwingnumbers off my head so I said
oh, it's going to be about, youknow, $500.
(16:12):
Yeah, he's like fine, I'll go.
You know, wait in the lobby andwhile you do all your fancy
tests on the dog.
And so I go do it and I put thecharges in and and it's more
than $500.
It comes to like 580 orsomething, and I know Bob's
going to blow a gasket becausehe is always on me about money
(16:38):
and so I feel bad about this.
But I was trying to avoid thesituation, so I sent one of my
technicians out to check themout and deliver the bad news.
Ira (16:48):
Way to go.
Stacee (16:50):
I'm really popular among technicians for this reason and
I was off to my nextappointment and Cynthia, my
technician she comes and knockson the door and she's like "Dr
Santi, can I speak to you forjust a second?
We have a question about Bob'sinvoice.
I'm like, oh, of course you do.
(17:11):
And I step out in the hall andI'm racing for what she's going
to say and then she kind ofblows my mind and she goes Dr
Stacey, bob's invoice is $580.
And he wants to get anotherloyalty stamp and he knows he
has to spend $20 more.
So I was wondering what elsecould he?
(17:33):
He would it be okay for his dogto have some fish oil?
Or he wants to know what elsecould he buy.
And I thought I have hit it.
This is like if this idea canmake someone like Bob be viewing
the way he spends money in amore positive light, I thought I
(17:53):
think I'm onto something.
I think that's kind of when Iknew this was a not your average
idea.
Ira (18:00):
Yeah, people get so competitive about about those
types of things, right, mywife's a reporter and so she
travels a lot with with a presspool and so they all have, you
know, their airline loyaltyprograms and their hotel loyalty
programs and they're like supercompetitive about it and
they're so proud when they reachlike the ultra tungsten status
(18:22):
or whatever, right, and and ifyou ever travel with those
people outside of work, like youbest be staying with like the
hotel chain that they have thatstatus with, or they are going
to be very, very unhappy.
And it just cracks me up like Idon't really get it.
I mean, I sort of get it, butit seems comical to me that they
(18:43):
go out of their way to maketheir lives more difficult, to
make sure that everything theydo is sort of associated with
this program that I'm sure theyget some cool benefits from.
Don't get me wrong, but youknow, ultimately, um, you know,
they end up spending more moneyand or undergoing more hardship
in order to sort of continue toaccumulate that and like it
doesn't always make sense to mekind of like your extra long
(19:05):
trip to jiffy lube exactly.
Stacee (19:07):
Did you ever see that episode of seinfeld where elaine
has the punch card for a freesub sandwich?
Ira (19:14):
that's been a lot it's so funny.
(21:05):
A book I read a while ago that Ireally liked, that I'd share.
It is written by a guy named EdCatmull I probably
mispronounced his name and hewas the president of Pixar wrote
this book called, CreativityInc.
And it is sort of a bookdescribing their process and
(21:35):
secrets for how they encouragedeverybody at Pixar to utilize
and maximize their creativityand to create hit after hit
after hit in the early days ofPixar.
They had no failures for a longtime.
Um, based on, you know, their,their process for developing
really interesting creativeideas for animated movies and
(21:58):
the ideas that, um, you know,these insights can be used to
kind of build a more creativeculture in any type of
organization, and I really likedit.
Stacee (22:07):
Oh, awesome.
Well, one thing I've been doingon LinkedIn is, when we mention
a book, if you like our post,I'm gonna send a random.
We'll pick a random winner andwe'll send you a copy of the
book.
So let's do that for this onetoo.
Ira (22:23):
Sounds great.
Stacee (22:25):
Okay, my tip of the week is it's just a basic tip going
to be no one to stop.
You know what I mean.
Like like I'm kind of a bulldog.
If you give me a problem, I'mnot going to quit.
Like, if you give me the giveme the Christmas lights that are
all tangled up and make youwant to punch a hole in the wall
(22:47):
, give them to me, because I'mnot going to stop until they're
untangled and they're allworking.
But there is a time for peoplelike me to stop.
And when you're hitting a walland you're pushing, pushing like
, the best thing you can do isjust walk away for a while,
(23:07):
because you need to let yoursubconscious work a little bit
and kind of take the pressureoff yourself.
And then, almost always, you'llbe amazed at what ideas surface
.
It's like your brain wants tohelp you, but you're suppressing
(23:28):
the creativity when you're inthat zone too long.
Does that make sense?
Ira (23:34):
Very much so.
I think that people with anentrepreneurial spirit and drive
, I think, often struggle withthis notion of you really need
to have a you know, never giveup attitude to be a successful
entrepreneur, because there are,you know, big time ups and
(23:55):
downs along the way and to besuccessful you need to be able
to persevere through those downsand at the same time, you also
need to be smart and detachedenough to know when you're
chasing a bad idea and you needto think about something
differently.
And I think the perfect step isan intermediate one, as you
(24:15):
described Take a pause right,give yourself again sort of time
to maybe think about things alittle bit more creatively or
differently, and I think if youkeep arriving at the same result
that this just isn't workingthen that may be sort of the
really the clue that you need toconsider a bigger pivot or that
you're barking up the wrongtree, so to speak.
Stacee (24:39):
Perfect analogy for us.
Well, let's pull up our specialwheel of questions and see what
we've got coming our way fornext week.
What was your most challengingfiring?
(25:04):
Yeah, that's a good one.
I hate firing people, like I'msure everyone does, unless
you're a total jerk, but it isso important to get rid of bad
apples when you can.
Ira (25:17):
So, yeah, yeah, it's going to be a little traumatic for me
to tell this story, but I willlook forward to sharing it with
folks nonetheless.
Stacee (25:27):
Yeah, sounds good.
Okay, I'll see you soon.
Thanks for listening to theshow today.
What's happening Ira?
Ira (00:44):
Hey, it's been a little while how you been Stacee?
Stacee (00:47):
Good, it has been a while We've been off
interviewing other entrepreneurs.
Ira (00:53):
We opened our relationship for a couple of episodes.
Stacee (00:57):
So you had the opportunity to interview Dr.
Adam Little and I had theopportunity to interview Beth
Green and I just have to say Ilistened to your interview with
Adam and I thought, wow, it wasso good.
I didn't actually know his storythat deeply and I know Adam,
(01:19):
but he talked about his journeyof starting a company and then
ultimately having it fail andwind down, and he did it with
such honesty and integrity andgenuineness.
I just found myself becomingmore of an Adam Little fan now,
(01:40):
because you really can see whata good person he is.
Ira (01:44):
Just appreciation for his really mature perspective on
everything that happened alongthe way, and I think it takes an
uncanny degree of acceptanceand coming to terms with the
things that went wrong and tohear him tell the story like he
does it, from both this kind oflike really detached and deeply
(02:08):
analytical mindset, but clearlyvery attached and, you know,
cared a lot about what he wasdoing and disappointed about the
things that you know didn't goas well as he hoped it would.
what do you think's gonnahappen to adam?
I mean, the easy answer is hewill be incredibly successful at
(02:30):
building something awesomesooner than later, and I think
that's right.
Stacee (02:35):
I think he's gonna come in like now.
The most uh powerful lessonsyou learn are the ones when you
fail right yeah, he.
He's going to come in like aHarry Potter.
It's going to be like a wizardof magical sorts that's going to
do something, and I don't wantto put pressure on him if he's
listening, but I just I feellike that's going to happen.
Ira (02:59):
Yeah, there's all sorts of ways to measure success.
Sorts of ways to measuresuccess and I know we've talked
about this before, but so muchof how I've evolved to think
about success is to feel likeyou did things the right way
along your journey.
I was recently talking to anentrepreneur whose business
(03:22):
recently shut down and it justsort of shared my perspective,
like you know, really it was afive-year run like
congratulations on just likedoing everything the right way
and and being grounded in thepassion for what you're doing.
But you know, kind of doing itwith integrity and you know, in
this case, sort of you knowreally sort of focusing on on
(03:42):
the science of what you're doingwas was the right way to do it,
and you know, in this case,sort of you know really sort of
focusing on the science of whatyou're doing was the right way
to do it, and you know the factthat things didn't work out was
not your fault, right.
And yeah, I think to apply thatlike he's been very successful,
even though the thing he wastrying to build ultimately did
fail, and he will continue to besuccessful.
Stacee (04:05):
That's really, yeah, that's really insightful.
And I think too I mean, nowthat I'm over the hump, over 50
years old, and I'm, you know, myparents are in their seventies
now and I talk to them a lot andyou look back and you think,
man, when I was 20, 30, 40, it'sway way better to take a shot
(04:31):
and fail than to wonder whatwould have happened if you had
tried this thing that requiredyou to bet on yourself.
And I feel like a lot of peopleare stuck in that dilemma and
they are in a job that theydon't really love.
They're making possibly a lotof money or they're just making
(04:51):
enough to get by, but they wishthey, their passion is to do
something else, and I am likeI'm going to just say double
down on yourself and do thesomething else.
At least try.
Even if you try it and you fail,give yourself some guardrails,
like, if I lose this much moneyor whatever, I mean, do make
(05:13):
sure first you have a home andfood and for your family.
So you can't, like, just livein a tent?
Well, I suppose you could, butwe don't recommend this.
But there's a lot of thingspeople can downgrade in their
life to take a chance and Ithink you'll feel so much better
when you're on the other sideof 50.
(05:33):
To say I did try this thing.
It didn't work out, but now Iknow that's different than
saying I wish.
I wonder what my life wouldhave been like had I done this.
Ira (05:47):
I think, especially when thinking about you know
professionals, like people thathave, you know, extensive
credentials in education, werereally important and made me the
happiest, I sort of look backand say those really weren't the
things.
It was different things.
And even now, as I sort of lookahead, I struggle to sort of
(06:23):
answer that question for myself,like what are the things that
you know?
I will look back on, you know,20 years from now and feel the
way I feel now about the thingsI did 10, 20 years ago Right.
Stacee (06:36):
Yeah, so crazy.
And then Beth's interview was.
Ira (06:41):
What a powerhouse man.
I mean.
Stacee (06:44):
She is just, you know, amazingly, you know insightful,
you, you know passionate as well, and um and a pretty wild story
and now I can't drive by anin-and-out burger store with a
burger restaurant withoutthinking of her, because we were
(07:06):
talking about staying in yourlane and how.
There's one restaurant I havein my town and they serve, you
know, pizza, burgers, pasta,like all the stuff, and it's
such a great metaphor for beingan entrepreneur of a startup.
Because you want to solve allthese problems, you get out of
(07:26):
your lane.
Just In-n-O ut an ut burger.
Just do the one thing, really,really, really well.
Or a Chick-fil-A, like, just dothat.
And so I think-.
Ira (07:39):
Everybody really wants and they will line up for hours to
wait for right.
Stacee (07:44):
It is crazy, the lines at the in and out burger and the
lines at the Chick-fil-A everyday, all day.
Ira (07:52):
It's been that way for years.
Stacee (07:53):
It's crazy, and I've eaten there, obviously at both
of them.
To be honest, it's not earthshattering to me.
I don't really feel like, oh myGod, I could never get this
flavor anywhere else on theplanet.
So I think they're a mastergenius at what they've done.
Okay, so let's dig into thequestion of the day, which is
(08:30):
when did you know?
When did you know you were onto something, or when did you
know your company was going totake off?
There are many times that thisquestion could apply in your
journey, so tell us about one ofthem.
Ira (08:46):
It is really hard because I would say, in some, some ways,
I never really felt that wayuntil the very, very end, in
terms of, you know, just becauseyou had a good year doesn't
mean next year is going to be agood year, and always sort of
had nerves about trying tocontinue to grow and, you know,
have a product that people likedand we also started with pretty
(09:12):
modest goals of like.
You know, it would just be coolif a handful of people found
this, used it and benefited fromit.
But I think, you know, the firsttime that I really feel like we
knew was related to this issue,that this would have been back
in like 2006, and at the time,you know, there wasn't like an
(09:35):
amazon where you kept all ofyour servers and the like.
We actually had, you know, builta server and it lived in the
closet where you could take careof it and upgrade it, and our
head of technology had built itfor what we told him to build it
for, which was, you know, like,I don't know, like maybe, if we
do really well, we might havelike a hundred users trying to
access information at a time and, um, within a few months of
(10:00):
launching the product and a fewmonths before board exams were
like everybody was on there andstudying and we had 16, 1700
people that had signed up forour course in that first year,
which was completely unexpected,and so, of course, the server
wasn't very happy about this,right Like it started slowing
down and having problems and westarted to get a bunch of
(10:21):
complaints from people likewhat's going on here and on the
one hand like it was great.
People were trying to use it andwere actually upset that they
couldn't access this tool thatwe had created for them.
But of course, the reality wasthis was terrible.
People were counting on us andthey were paying us to help them
and they were not having a goodexperience during these days.
(10:42):
And I got a really angry callfrom our head of developer and
it's like what's going on here.
I was like why is the serverhaving so much activity?
You had told me to build it forX and we're experiencing Y.
And I think that was when wefirst realized like oh my gosh,
like not only are people signingup, but like everybody's
(11:03):
actually using it so much sothat it's kind of crashing our
server and we need to, on thefly, figure out how to upgrade
our server, improve sort of theway data is being accessed so
that it's not slowing thingsdown as much, and do all this
immediately.
And fortunately, you know wehad a lot of wonderful help to
(11:27):
get this done pretty quickly andeverybody ended up being happy,
ultimately, that you know weweren't slowed down indefinitely
leading up to boards, but youknow we had to send out a big
letter to everybody saying we'rereally sorry.
The last couple of days havebeen, you know, slow, especially
at peak times, but we've madesome upgrades and we expect that
(11:50):
this is going to make thingsbetter and please let us know if
anybody's experiencing anyproblems.
We appreciate your patienceduring this moment and I think
that was when we really realized, oh, everybody's actually using
this and counting on us andthey're mad at us all at the
same time.
Stacee (12:09):
Yeah, it's so funny.
You're hoping for nice steadyclips of growth and then you
open the floodgates and I wonderif that's a lot.
How many of the telemedicinecompanies felt when COVID hit?
Can you imagine like you're nothaving a ton of traction and
(12:29):
then some inflection point hits,COVID and suddenly you have
hundreds of people signing upthat have no idea what they are
doing.
Ira (12:41):
Well about you.
When did you know?
Stacee (12:45):
Well for me.
I remember this funny story.
So I had this idea that Iwanted to put a loyalty program
in the app.
I just had this thing at mypractice.
I hadn't really not thought alot at all about building it for
anybody else but myself, and soI was in need of an oil change.
(13:10):
You might have heard me tellthis story before.
I was in need of an oil changefor my car and, working at a vet
hospital on the floor andmanaging I was literally working
60 to 70 hours a week, I wouldimagine and so on my one day off
I went to get my oil changed,which sounds okay, not whatever.
(13:31):
But I drove way far away to getmy oil changed because I wanted
to go to the Jiffy Lube,because I had this like stamp
card, and when you got six oilchanges, you got the seventh
free, got the seventh free, andironically there is a place to
(13:54):
change your oil like literallynext door to my practice.
But I didn't go to that, like anormal person would have
dropped their car off beforework and picked it up after, but
not me.
I wasted like two hours of myone day off to drive there, sit
there, do that, and I startedrecognizing this and I thought
what's wrong with me?
Why would I do such a thing tosave you know, $60 and maybe in
(14:17):
about three years?
And I realized that it was astamp card.
I had succumbed to this, youknow, hopeful idea that I was
investing in myself, and so Istarted to put this into my app.
I thought, okay, this couldwork.
I would give clients a stamp,if you will, for every $100 they
(14:43):
spent, and then when they got12 stamps, they get $100 credit
at the account.
And I thought it was a goodidea.
But I did zero A-B testing, Ijust did it and I thought, well,
I'll see what happens.
And right off the bat, I had tosee one of the most difficult
clients at the practice.
(15:05):
I mean, you have some of these,right?
Ira (15:07):
I might have had a few in my time, yeah.
Stacee (15:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and this was a a husband wife duo
that you know.
The wife was super nice and thehusband, who will call Bob, was
difficult, so difficult thatonly I could see him, cause he
raised so much hell and you knowhe was a good pet owner, but he
was a difficult guy.
(15:29):
So, anyways, he brings his dogin one day and he's always
complaining about money.
This guy, the wife doesn't, butthis guy, he's always making
snide comments and jabbing me alittle bit about our fees and
how he owns the wing of thepractice and all this stuff.
So he brings his dog in and Itell him all right, you know,
(15:51):
she's sick enough, we're goingto have to do some tests on her
and I need to do some lab workand some x-rays.
He's like well, how much isthat going to cost?
So I tell him it's going to.
I threw some.
I'm notorious for just throwingnumbers off my head so I said
oh, it's going to be about, youknow, $500.
(16:12):
Yeah, he's like fine, I'll go.
You know, wait in the lobby andwhile you do all your fancy
tests on the dog.
And so I go do it and I put thecharges in and and it's more
than $500.
It comes to like 580 orsomething, and I know Bob's
going to blow a gasket becausehe is always on me about money
(16:38):
and so I feel bad about this.
But I was trying to avoid thesituation, so I sent one of my
technicians out to check themout and deliver the bad news.
Ira (16:48):
Way to go.
Stacee (16:50):
I'm really popular among technicians for this reason and
I was off to my nextappointment and Cynthia, my
technician she comes and knockson the door and she's like "Dr
Santi, can I speak to you forjust a second?
We have a question about Bob'sinvoice.
I'm like, oh, of course you do.
(17:11):
And I step out in the hall andI'm racing for what she's going
to say and then she kind ofblows my mind and she goes Dr
Stacey, bob's invoice is $580.
And he wants to get anotherloyalty stamp and he knows he
has to spend $20 more.
So I was wondering what elsecould he?
(17:33):
He would it be okay for his dogto have some fish oil?
Or he wants to know what elsecould he buy.
And I thought I have hit it.
This is like if this idea canmake someone like Bob be viewing
the way he spends money in amore positive light, I thought I
(17:53):
think I'm onto something.
I think that's kind of when Iknew this was a not your average
idea.
Ira (18:00):
Yeah, people get so competitive about about those
types of things, right, mywife's a reporter and so she
travels a lot with with a presspool and so they all have, you
know, their airline loyaltyprograms and their hotel loyalty
programs and they're like supercompetitive about it and
they're so proud when they reachlike the ultra tungsten status
(18:22):
or whatever, right, and and ifyou ever travel with those
people outside of work, like youbest be staying with like the
hotel chain that they have thatstatus with, or they are going
to be very, very unhappy.
And it just cracks me up like Idon't really get it.
I mean, I sort of get it, butit seems comical to me that they
(18:43):
go out of their way to maketheir lives more difficult, to
make sure that everything theydo is sort of associated with
this program that I'm sure theyget some cool benefits from.
Don't get me wrong, but youknow, ultimately, um, you know,
they end up spending more moneyand or undergoing more hardship
in order to sort of continue toaccumulate that and like it
doesn't always make sense to mekind of like your extra long
(19:05):
trip to jiffy lube exactly.
Stacee (19:07):
Did you ever see that episode of seinfeld where elaine
has the punch card for a freesub sandwich?
Ira (19:14):
that's been a lot it's so funny.
(21:05):
A book I read a while ago that Ireally liked, that I'd share.
It is written by a guy named EdCatmull I probably
mispronounced his name and hewas the president of Pixar wrote
this book called, CreativityInc.
And it is sort of a bookdescribing their process and
(21:35):
secrets for how they encouragedeverybody at Pixar to utilize
and maximize their creativityand to create hit after hit
after hit in the early days ofPixar.
They had no failures for a longtime.
Um, based on, you know, their,their process for developing
really interesting creativeideas for animated movies and
(21:58):
the ideas that, um, you know,these insights can be used to
kind of build a more creativeculture in any type of
organization, and I really likedit.
Stacee (22:07):
Oh, awesome.
Well, one thing I've been doingon LinkedIn is, when we mention
a book, if you like our post,I'm gonna send a random.
We'll pick a random winner andwe'll send you a copy of the
book.
So let's do that for this onetoo.
Ira (22:23):
Sounds great.
Stacee (22:25):
Okay, my tip of the week is it's just a basic tip going
to be no one to stop.
You know what I mean.
Like like I'm kind of a bulldog.
If you give me a problem, I'mnot going to quit.
Like, if you give me the giveme the Christmas lights that are
all tangled up and make youwant to punch a hole in the wall
(22:47):
, give them to me, because I'mnot going to stop until they're
untangled and they're allworking.
But there is a time for peoplelike me to stop.
And when you're hitting a walland you're pushing, pushing like
, the best thing you can do isjust walk away for a while,
(23:07):
because you need to let yoursubconscious work a little bit
and kind of take the pressureoff yourself.
And then, almost always, you'llbe amazed at what ideas surface
.
It's like your brain wants tohelp you, but you're suppressing
(23:28):
the creativity when you're inthat zone too long.
Does that make sense?
Ira (23:34):
Very much so.
I think that people with anentrepreneurial spirit and drive
, I think, often struggle withthis notion of you really need
to have a you know, never giveup attitude to be a successful
entrepreneur, because there are,you know, big time ups and
(23:55):
downs along the way and to besuccessful you need to be able
to persevere through those downsand at the same time, you also
need to be smart and detachedenough to know when you're
chasing a bad idea and you needto think about something
differently.
And I think the perfect step isan intermediate one, as you
(24:15):
described Take a pause right,give yourself again sort of time
to maybe think about things alittle bit more creatively or
differently, and I think if youkeep arriving at the same result
that this just isn't workingthen that may be sort of the
really the clue that you need toconsider a bigger pivot or that
you're barking up the wrongtree, so to speak.
Stacee (24:39):
Perfect analogy for us.
Well, let's pull up our specialwheel of questions and see what
we've got coming our way fornext week.
What was your most challengingfiring?
(25:04):
Yeah, that's a good one.
I hate firing people, like I'msure everyone does, unless
you're a total jerk, but it isso important to get rid of bad
apples when you can.
Ira (25:17):
So, yeah, yeah, it's going to be a little traumatic for me
to tell this story, but I willlook forward to sharing it with
folks nonetheless.
Stacee (25:27):
Yeah, sounds good.
Okay, I'll see you soon.
Thanks for listening to theshow today.
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