May 13, 2024 • 22 mins
In our latest discussion, we unpack the tango of competition and innovation in the business world. Ira and Stacee share their stories of discomfort of encountering their rivals and the subsequent appreciation for the diversity and drive it brings to the market.
Ira's tip of the week: Disciplined Entrepreneurship: 24 Steps to a Successful Startup by Bill Aulet
Stacee's tip of the week: Radical Candor podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ira (00:04):
Hello and welcome.
I am Ira Gordon and, along withStacey Santee, the host of the
Accidental Entrepreneurs Podcast.
We each previously foundedsuccessful companies Along the
way.
We became business owners andeventually sold those businesses
despite us having no realbackground in business or ever
even planning to becomeentrepreneurs.
In other words, we did this alldespite originally having no
(00:25):
idea what we were doing orgetting ourselves into.
In each episode of this podcast, we will share stories and tips
from our journey and we'llanswer a randomly chosen
question about our experience.
Let's jump right into the show.
Stacee (00:41):
Good day Ira.
How are you doing?
What's going on over there?
Ira (00:45):
I'm doing pretty well.
I've been a little bit tied upwith working on some budgets for
a nonprofit that I work with,but also what's made me a little
more exciting is my son hasbeen learning to play guitar for
the last I don't know sixmonths or so, and now he's in a
kind of an introductory band, ifyou will.
(01:07):
So I took him to band practiceyesterday.
He's, I think, he's theyoungest kid in the band.
He's 11 and I think it rangesfrom like 10 to 18 and he's he's
the youngest one but he'slearning to play a couple of
Blink 182 songs which he's alittle bit into.
He's actually like more of likea heavy rocker than Blink 182,
(01:31):
so he doesn't love it, but he's,uh, he's getting into it, which
is fun to see
Stacee (01:36):
our youngest, was in a little five boy ensemble band
and they play the little localsites and so I have some videos.
It's one of our most fun thingsto watch when they're trying to
play Metallica.
Ira (01:55):
That's the tag.
You live vicariously throughthem.
Yeah, I guess I still playguitar a little bit, not that
I'm any good, but back back inthe day, like back when I was an
intern, one of the residentsand I would play together, went
to like a few open mic nightsand did that kind of thing and,
yeah, it's always just kind offun to see somebody else doing
it that you know and you're like, oh yeah, I sort of remember
(02:17):
when I was a wannabe one ofthose and they're way better at
it than I was, and it's a goodgood thing.
I pursued a different thing inmy life.
Stacee (02:25):
What's your best song you and your bandmates played?
Ira (02:30):
What were we the best at?
That's a good question.
So I think the song we werebest at was there's a song by
the Barenaked Ladies called "IfI had a Million Dollars.
Stacee (02:41):
Oh yeah, I know that.
Ira (02:44):
So we used to play that and it was pretty good.
Stacee (02:46):
Which is funny.
Ira (02:47):
We wrote a few songs as well, which was fun.
Stacee (02:49):
Well, now you have a million dollars, so that's good,
All right.
Well, let's hop into ourquestion.
This week it is when did youfirst meet your competitor?
Ira (03:12):
All right.
So, just as a reminder, mybusiness was the sort of first
of its kind online boardpreparation for veterinarians.
But not too long after welaunched our company, a second
company started doing prep forthe for the same exam, and we
(03:33):
met our competitor for the firsttime at the student American
Veterinary Medical Associationmeeting, because we both were
there to talk to students aboutour new products and how we
could help them.
And it was super interestingand super awkward, I guess I
would say, at least from myperspective.
(03:54):
I mean, he's a nice guy, smartguy, but we came to find out
that, oddly enough, he wasworking on building his company
and product the same time thatwe were building ours.
And then, from his perspective,out of nowhere, this product
(04:15):
doing almost exactly what hewanted to build a product to do,
just came on the market a yearbefore he was ready to launch
his business.
And I think he had left a job at, like the CDC he was also a
veterinarian and you know tobasically dive headfirst into
this company.
And yeah, like out of nowhere,like we kind of unintentionally
(04:39):
gave him this big kind of punchin the stomach of like, oh, I
thought I had, you know, thisopportunity with no competition,
just like we did.
And all of a sudden, like therewe were, and so it was, yeah,
sort of awkward to sort ofrealize that we had kind of
gotten maybe in the way of hisplans and dreams.
(05:01):
I think, you know, ultimately,like we all learned that there
was room for both businesses tobe successful and do great
things and, I think, in the longterm, pushed us both to, you
know, innovate and continuallyimprove our products and all
those things.
But when you actually, you know, sort of put a face and a
person to those things, yourealize that you know what, like
we're actually just all tryingto do something really good and
(05:25):
we're good people.
Stacee (05:26):
What do you think about having competitors in general?
Because you always wish youdidn't have any competitors,
right?
But if you look at all thegreat things out there there's
Uber and there's Lyft, there'siPhone and there's Android
there's, like, always, acompetitor, even in the most
excellent things.
(05:47):
Is that good, or are youlooking for the sweetest of
spots when there's no competitor?
Ira (05:55):
I think, ultimately, show me a business that has no
competitor and I'll show you abusiness that has almost no
market.
I think if there's a goodopportunity to help people and
to make a difference and peopleare willing to pay for that, I
think there's going to be morethan one individual that
identifies that, as you know, aplace that they want to build a
(06:20):
product or a service and they'regoing to compete.
We sort of took it, as you know, a form of flattery to have,
you know, a competitor doing thesame things we were doing.
And, you know, from ourperspective at least, we
oftentimes felt like, you know,there was, there was sometimes
some adopting of, you know,ideas that we'd come up with, or
(06:41):
you know, models and pricing,like all those things that
somebody was copying, and I'msure from his perspective he'd
say something different.
I guess ultimately say you know,like that, that's reinforcing
that we're doing something goodif somebody else thinks so and
wants to do something verysimilar.
Stacee (06:58):
Yeah, that's a good point.
If you have no competitors, youprobably are in a spot that you
should think twice about.
Well, for me, okay, I'm justgoing to tell you what happened
with my competitor, because Idon't even know if anyone's
really listening to this podcast, so I feel like I can tell you
(07:21):
the truth.
Ira (07:21):
Safe space.
Nobody's listening nyway, It'sa safe space here
Stacee (07:27):
you know I started Vet2Pet.
It's very small and I got windthat there was, right at the
same time as it goes, anotheremerging company doing similar
things called PetDesk, and Ican't remember exactly how I
found them, but I was looking inthe app store and I downloaded
(07:49):
their app and then you can seeall the vets in your area.
You put your zip code in andyou can see all the practices,
whether or not they're usingPetDesk or not.
This was just one of theirparts of their platform.
So I actually saw my practicein there and I saw other clinics
in my area.
(08:10):
But I saw my friend BenHuffnagle in there.
He's my classmate from CSU andhe's an equine practitioner out
there where I live in Bayfield,colorado, and his name came up.
But as a small animal providerlike I could book a dog spay
with him.
Ira (08:29):
So you did.
Stacee (08:31):
He's my friend and I had built him an app for his equine
practice just in my earlystages here.
And so I'm like, all right, I'mgoing to book a dog spay with
Ben and just see where thistakes me.
And I did it.
And then shortly thereafter,within like five minutes, I get
(08:52):
a call from Ben and he's likehey, some company just called me
, called Petd esk or something,and they said you wanted me to
spay your dog and he goes.
Of course he knows that's nottrue.
I'm like, oh no, what'd you say?
What did you say?
And he goes.
(09:12):
"Oh, I told him I don't do that.
And then they asked me if Iwanted an app and I said, oh God
, what'd you say?
He goes.
I told him I didn't need onebecause I already had one with
you and that to pet.
I'm like, oh no, totally.
Ira (09:30):
You did this to yourself.
Stacee (09:34):
I know.
And then, Ira, this is so funnyand I actually think, a really
classy move.
About five minutes after thismy phone rang and it was Taylor
cavanaugh, the ceo Cavanaugh ofand this Petdesk P is I met
Taylor.
He's like "um, yeah, it lookslike you know we had you try to
book a spay through our platformand I realize you're building
(09:59):
apps too.
So I just wanted to reach outand say hi, I was so embarrassed
, I had to really come clean andsay Taylor, I was trolling on
you.
I mean, that's exactly what Iwas doing, trying to see what
your platform was like.
They ended up being a verytough competitor and we are
(10:21):
always neck and neck with themand you know, I don't know if
this is kosher or not, butthey're all guys from California
.
And our team is all girls,pretty much from Colorado, so we
will call them the "bro desk.
That's what we always call them.
Is the bros.
What are the bros up to now?
Ira (10:43):
What do you think they call you girls?
Stacee (10:44):
Yeah, I don't want to know.
It was always a friendlycompetition I guess you would
say a friendly sparring of sortsand we get along with them
pretty good.
Ira (10:58):
That's good.
That's good, yeah, I think, uh,yeah, definitely some ups and
downs maybe over the years inour relationship with our
competitors.
I think, you know, there wouldjust always be things that I
don't know like.
Usually, like somebody woulddecide to do something, um, and
the competitor would sort ofcatch wind of it and think like,
oh, like I can't believe, likemy competitor is doing this or
(11:21):
saying this, and get superoffended and, you know,
ultimately come to find out it'slike it was just like some
somebody did, did somethingstupid, like unintentionally,
and then we don't really talkuntil somebody gets mad and
reaches out to say why'd you dothis?
Right?
And yeah, I think that it tooka while and some some maturity
(11:43):
because we were really youngwhen we first started and met
each other to sort of say, youknow what, like you know there's
, there's room for all of us and, yes, like it's a rivalry and
we want to win the competition,if you will.
But, um, you know, ultimatelyit's probably for the best that
we're both out there and neitherone of us is going anyplace.
(12:04):
It's not, you know, may as well, just accept it.
Stacee (12:08):
Oh yeah, and there are certainly times where I just
very much dislike them.
And I was hanging out at somevet meeting thing and Julian
Renard was there, who's afounder of Vetstoria and he's a
buddy of mine, and I was tellinghim oh, brodesk, oh, I'm so
sick of them.
They're always copying ourstuff and they're jerks.
(12:31):
And he's like have "you evermet them, spent time with them?
Because a couple of the guysare here they're not jerks at
all.
And I'm like, oh, julie, and hegoes, come over here and meet
them.
I'm like, no, no way.
He's like, stacy, come on now,you're not being very
professional here, come on, youneed to meet him face to face.
(12:51):
And so I did.
And of course they were supernice and really cool guys.
So disappointing, sodisappointing.
But I know what you mean.
Sometimes you feel like peopleare stealing your ideas, but
probably if you step back alittle, there's like just
(13:11):
obvious ideas there for thepicking.
Ira (13:13):
There's so many ways to go about X, y or Z right.
Stacee (13:17):
Yeah, no one's really stealing your idea, because
you're not the only one that hasthe idea.
I think that's fair all right,well, um, let's move to the part
(13:41):
of the program where we'regoing to share our favorite tip
trick tool quote I, a number ofyears ago, did something that I
really enjoyed.
Ira (13:53):
It was really awesome.
It was a week-long healthcareinnovation boot camp that was
put on by MIT and by HarvardMedical School.
So you can go up there and fora week you put in 20-hour days
working on a healthcare projecton a team and have classes
during the day to talk about thethings that you're working on.
(14:14):
And I thought one of the reallyinteresting and sort of
valuable pieces of that camefrom this book called
Disciplined Entrepreneurship" byBill Aulet, and it kind of
outlines like all of the steps Ithink there's like 24 steps of
building a successful startup.
(14:35):
And yeah, it was reallyvaluable and I find it to be
certainly not the only, but areally helpful framework for
thinking about the variousthings that you need to figure
out and do successfully inbuilding a startup.
Stacee (14:57):
Oh, that's really cool.
It's funny you say that becauseI've been thinking a lot lately
about what are like the keyelements of building a startup
and kind of what order they'rein.
And I don't have 20, how manydid he have 24?
Ira (15:08):
Yes, I believe.
I believe it's 24.
I somewhere I have a poster oflike the 24 steps, but it's
folded up.
It's not like on my wall, soI'd have to find it for you.
Stacee (15:18):
I must not be thinking big enough, because I only have
five.
Ira (15:22):
I think there's like five categories they all fall into,
or something like that oh, I'llhave to go see if my categories
match his category.
Stacee (15:28):
So my first one was you have to have like you don't have
to have all of these, but themore you have, the more
successful you're going to be,is my thinking.
So the first one is you have tohave a product or service that
solves a real pain point.
The second is you have to havereally good technology and
(15:50):
infrastructure of your product.
Number three is you have tohave a really strong idea or
deliverable.
The product itself has to bedressed up nice and functional,
with the UI, ux and all of this.
And then the fourth is brandingthe UI, ux and all of this.
(16:15):
And then the fourth is branding, so you have a strong messaging
, so your customers know exactlywhat problem you're solving, so
they can buy from you.
And then the fifth is marketing, so people know that you exist.
Those are kind of my big fiveI've been thinking about.
Ira (16:29):
Very cool.
Well, this will probably beentirely unhelpful for a podcast
, but I'm sharing the screen ofthe 20, it was right, it's 24
Steps of DisciplinedEntrepreneurship by Bill and,
yeah, sort of covers.
You're pretty close right, likethe blue section here.
I don't know what the blues iscoded to, but there's market
(16:49):
segmentation, beachhead, marketend user profile, total
addressable market and thepersona of that buyer and then
your first 10 customers andanyway it goes all along.
But yeah, I think it is not asmaybe marketing focused as your
steps are.
(17:09):
You know, I think the latersteps here you know more along
the lines of, you know, lookingat the business model and
pricing framework and lifetimevalue and some of those things.
But I think I think you're onthe right track and here's
another framework for you toconsider.
Stacee (17:28):
Awesome.
I'm going to post this in thenotes for the podcast.
Ira (17:34):
Sounds good.
Stacee (17:36):
Okay, sure.
Ira (17:37):
My my poor reading of the map was not helpful to anybody.
Stacee (17:43):
I like that map.
My tip of the week is thispodcast called Radical Candor
and you know, when I wasbuilding Vet2Pet, one of the
things I was really passionateabout since it was my company
was that we were going to have agreat culture and we had to say
(18:05):
what great culture meant to usand for me.
One of my love languages orcore values is like brutal
honesty, just being honest, andI hate it when you work at a
company and people think thingsor say things to other people
about either you or the thingsyou're working on, because they
(18:29):
can't say them to you directly,because they feel maybe they
don't want to hurt your feelingsor whatever.
It's really quite hard to becandid with someone and so early
on, that was what I hired for.
That was one of the big corevalues is we're not going to
talk about each other, we'regoing to talk to each other, and
(18:52):
I found we had to get someskills around this and that
podcast was amazing.
So the whole team what we woulddo is we would listen to an
episode once a week and then wehave a meeting about it and
think about how we couldimplement that lesson of the
week in our real work life.
And it even came to the pointwhere we could say things like
(19:17):
I've got to share some radicalcandor with you.
Like we could reference thepodcast as a lead in to being
candid and it really helped usbe honest and truthful with one
another and you know, when youfeel that way, you feel very
respected, even if people don'tlike what you're doing.
(19:39):
Someone telling you that theydon't like what you're doing
feels a lot better than themtelling somebody else.
So I really love that podcast.
Ira (19:48):
Yeah, no, that's great.
I think I'm sure it comes fromsort of a book of the same title
that's oftentimes referencedand has, I think, great advice
about sort of building the typeof culture you just referenced.
I saw it must've been aLinkedIn post a week or two ago
where I kind of didn't reallylike it but I disagreed with it.
(20:11):
But it said that maybe I don't,I just don't know but it said
that there is also, like, Iguess, this group of people that
use that phrase radical candoras sort of just like an excuse
to be a dick.
Stacee (20:24):
Don't do that.
Ira (20:26):
Which is like the complete opposite of the intent of of the
book and sort of all themessages within the book and the
podcast.
So I thought I just thoughtthat was sort of interesting.
I saw that the other day.
I had a sort of a negativereaction to the comment and and
then you brought it up here.
Stacee (20:43):
Oh, they're listening, I know they are.
Well, and you know, beingcandid with someone is kind of a
superpower and you have to belike Spider-Man there, because
with great power comes greatresponsibility, so you can hurt
people's feelings still.
So you have to learn how to doit, and that's what the podcast
teaches you.
Ira (21:05):
I mean, ultimately, it's about people knowing that you
genuinely care about them.
And I oftentimes think tomyself, like I I usually don't
criticize people I don't like,because I don't view it as my
job to help people that I don'tlike to get better.
Um and so if I am critical ofyou or what you're doing and I'm
(21:32):
sharing that with you like it'sbecause I care about you, that
I, that I want to do that.
Like I, I tend to instinctivelyhave a desire to avoid conflict
, which I know is often nothealthy.
And so when I, when I pursue it, it's it's because I care about
the person and or care aboutthe outcome, but usually it's
because I care about the person.
Stacee (21:51):
Yeah, that's so good.
All right, well, let's spin thewheel and we'll see what we've
got coming up for next time.
What we've got coming up fornext time, oh, this is fitting.
What was the leadership styleat your company?
Ira (22:12):
Interesting, interesting.
We had several leaders and weall had a different style, but I
think we definitely had somethings in common, so that'll be
good to talk about.
Stacee (22:21):
All right, I'll see you guys next time.
Thanks for listening to theshow today.
Hello and welcome.
I am Ira Gordon and, along withStacey Santee, the host of the
Accidental Entrepreneurs Podcast.
We each previously foundedsuccessful companies Along the
way.
We became business owners andeventually sold those businesses
despite us having no realbackground in business or ever
even planning to becomeentrepreneurs.
In other words, we did this alldespite originally having no
(00:25):
idea what we were doing orgetting ourselves into.
In each episode of this podcast, we will share stories and tips
from our journey and we'llanswer a randomly chosen
question about our experience.
Let's jump right into the show.
Stacee (00:41):
Good day Ira.
How are you doing?
What's going on over there?
Ira (00:45):
I'm doing pretty well.
I've been a little bit tied upwith working on some budgets for
a nonprofit that I work with,but also what's made me a little
more exciting is my son hasbeen learning to play guitar for
the last I don't know sixmonths or so, and now he's in a
kind of an introductory band, ifyou will.
(01:07):
So I took him to band practiceyesterday.
He's, I think, he's theyoungest kid in the band.
He's 11 and I think it rangesfrom like 10 to 18 and he's he's
the youngest one but he'slearning to play a couple of
Blink 182 songs which he's alittle bit into.
He's actually like more of likea heavy rocker than Blink 182,
(01:31):
so he doesn't love it, but he's,uh, he's getting into it, which
is fun to see
Stacee (01:36):
our youngest, was in a little five boy ensemble band
and they play the little localsites and so I have some videos.
It's one of our most fun thingsto watch when they're trying to
play Metallica.
Ira (01:55):
That's the tag.
You live vicariously throughthem.
Yeah, I guess I still playguitar a little bit, not that
I'm any good, but back back inthe day, like back when I was an
intern, one of the residentsand I would play together, went
to like a few open mic nightsand did that kind of thing and,
yeah, it's always just kind offun to see somebody else doing
it that you know and you're like, oh yeah, I sort of remember
(02:17):
when I was a wannabe one ofthose and they're way better at
it than I was, and it's a goodgood thing.
I pursued a different thing inmy life.
Stacee (02:25):
What's your best song you and your bandmates played?
Ira (02:30):
What were we the best at?
That's a good question.
So I think the song we werebest at was there's a song by
the Barenaked Ladies called "IfI had a Million Dollars.
Stacee (02:41):
Oh yeah, I know that.
Ira (02:44):
So we used to play that and it was pretty good.
Stacee (02:46):
Which is funny.
Ira (02:47):
We wrote a few songs as well, which was fun.
Stacee (02:49):
Well, now you have a million dollars, so that's good,
All right.
Well, let's hop into ourquestion.
This week it is when did youfirst meet your competitor?
Ira (03:12):
All right.
So, just as a reminder, mybusiness was the sort of first
of its kind online boardpreparation for veterinarians.
But not too long after welaunched our company, a second
company started doing prep forthe for the same exam, and we
(03:33):
met our competitor for the firsttime at the student American
Veterinary Medical Associationmeeting, because we both were
there to talk to students aboutour new products and how we
could help them.
And it was super interestingand super awkward, I guess I
would say, at least from myperspective.
(03:54):
I mean, he's a nice guy, smartguy, but we came to find out
that, oddly enough, he wasworking on building his company
and product the same time thatwe were building ours.
And then, from his perspective,out of nowhere, this product
(04:15):
doing almost exactly what hewanted to build a product to do,
just came on the market a yearbefore he was ready to launch
his business.
And I think he had left a job at, like the CDC he was also a
veterinarian and you know tobasically dive headfirst into
this company.
And yeah, like out of nowhere,like we kind of unintentionally
(04:39):
gave him this big kind of punchin the stomach of like, oh, I
thought I had, you know, thisopportunity with no competition,
just like we did.
And all of a sudden, like therewe were, and so it was, yeah,
sort of awkward to sort ofrealize that we had kind of
gotten maybe in the way of hisplans and dreams.
(05:01):
I think, you know, ultimately,like we all learned that there
was room for both businesses tobe successful and do great
things and, I think, in the longterm, pushed us both to, you
know, innovate and continuallyimprove our products and all
those things.
But when you actually, you know, sort of put a face and a
person to those things, yourealize that you know what, like
we're actually just all tryingto do something really good and
(05:25):
we're good people.
Stacee (05:26):
What do you think about having competitors in general?
Because you always wish youdidn't have any competitors,
right?
But if you look at all thegreat things out there there's
Uber and there's Lyft, there'siPhone and there's Android
there's, like, always, acompetitor, even in the most
excellent things.
(05:47):
Is that good, or are youlooking for the sweetest of
spots when there's no competitor?
Ira (05:55):
I think, ultimately, show me a business that has no
competitor and I'll show you abusiness that has almost no
market.
I think if there's a goodopportunity to help people and
to make a difference and peopleare willing to pay for that, I
think there's going to be morethan one individual that
identifies that, as you know, aplace that they want to build a
(06:20):
product or a service and they'regoing to compete.
We sort of took it, as you know, a form of flattery to have,
you know, a competitor doing thesame things we were doing.
And, you know, from ourperspective at least, we
oftentimes felt like, you know,there was, there was sometimes
some adopting of, you know,ideas that we'd come up with, or
(06:41):
you know, models and pricing,like all those things that
somebody was copying, and I'msure from his perspective he'd
say something different.
I guess ultimately say you know,like that, that's reinforcing
that we're doing something goodif somebody else thinks so and
wants to do something verysimilar.
Stacee (06:58):
Yeah, that's a good point.
If you have no competitors, youprobably are in a spot that you
should think twice about.
Well, for me, okay, I'm justgoing to tell you what happened
with my competitor, because Idon't even know if anyone's
really listening to this podcast, so I feel like I can tell you
(07:21):
the truth.
Ira (07:21):
Safe space.
Nobody's listening nyway, It'sa safe space here
Stacee (07:27):
you know I started Vet2Pet.
It's very small and I got windthat there was, right at the
same time as it goes, anotheremerging company doing similar
things called PetDesk, and Ican't remember exactly how I
found them, but I was looking inthe app store and I downloaded
(07:49):
their app and then you can seeall the vets in your area.
You put your zip code in andyou can see all the practices,
whether or not they're usingPetDesk or not.
This was just one of theirparts of their platform.
So I actually saw my practicein there and I saw other clinics
in my area.
(08:10):
But I saw my friend BenHuffnagle in there.
He's my classmate from CSU andhe's an equine practitioner out
there where I live in Bayfield,colorado, and his name came up.
But as a small animal providerlike I could book a dog spay
with him.
Ira (08:29):
So you did.
Stacee (08:31):
He's my friend and I had built him an app for his equine
practice just in my earlystages here.
And so I'm like, all right, I'mgoing to book a dog spay with
Ben and just see where thistakes me.
And I did it.
And then shortly thereafter,within like five minutes, I get
(08:52):
a call from Ben and he's likehey, some company just called me
, called Petd esk or something,and they said you wanted me to
spay your dog and he goes.
Of course he knows that's nottrue.
I'm like, oh no, what'd you say?
What did you say?
And he goes.
(09:12):
"Oh, I told him I don't do that.
And then they asked me if Iwanted an app and I said, oh God
, what'd you say?
He goes.
I told him I didn't need onebecause I already had one with
you and that to pet.
I'm like, oh no, totally.
Ira (09:30):
You did this to yourself.
Stacee (09:34):
I know.
And then, Ira, this is so funnyand I actually think, a really
classy move.
About five minutes after thismy phone rang and it was Taylor
cavanaugh, the ceo Cavanaugh ofand this Petdesk P is I met
Taylor.
He's like "um, yeah, it lookslike you know we had you try to
book a spay through our platformand I realize you're building
(09:59):
apps too.
So I just wanted to reach outand say hi, I was so embarrassed
, I had to really come clean andsay Taylor, I was trolling on
you.
I mean, that's exactly what Iwas doing, trying to see what
your platform was like.
They ended up being a verytough competitor and we are
(10:21):
always neck and neck with themand you know, I don't know if
this is kosher or not, butthey're all guys from California
.
And our team is all girls,pretty much from Colorado, so we
will call them the "bro desk.
That's what we always call them.
Is the bros.
What are the bros up to now?
Ira (10:43):
What do you think they call you girls?
Stacee (10:44):
Yeah, I don't want to know.
It was always a friendlycompetition I guess you would
say a friendly sparring of sortsand we get along with them
pretty good.
Ira (10:58):
That's good.
That's good, yeah, I think, uh,yeah, definitely some ups and
downs maybe over the years inour relationship with our
competitors.
I think, you know, there wouldjust always be things that I
don't know like.
Usually, like somebody woulddecide to do something, um, and
the competitor would sort ofcatch wind of it and think like,
oh, like I can't believe, likemy competitor is doing this or
(11:21):
saying this, and get superoffended and, you know,
ultimately come to find out it'slike it was just like some
somebody did, did somethingstupid, like unintentionally,
and then we don't really talkuntil somebody gets mad and
reaches out to say why'd you dothis?
Right?
And yeah, I think that it tooka while and some some maturity
(11:43):
because we were really youngwhen we first started and met
each other to sort of say, youknow what, like you know there's
, there's room for all of us and, yes, like it's a rivalry and
we want to win the competition,if you will.
But, um, you know, ultimatelyit's probably for the best that
we're both out there and neitherone of us is going anyplace.
(12:04):
It's not, you know, may as well, just accept it.
Stacee (12:08):
Oh yeah, and there are certainly times where I just
very much dislike them.
And I was hanging out at somevet meeting thing and Julian
Renard was there, who's afounder of Vetstoria and he's a
buddy of mine, and I was tellinghim oh, brodesk, oh, I'm so
sick of them.
They're always copying ourstuff and they're jerks.
(12:31):
And he's like have "you evermet them, spent time with them?
Because a couple of the guysare here they're not jerks at
all.
And I'm like, oh, julie, and hegoes, come over here and meet
them.
I'm like, no, no way.
He's like, stacy, come on now,you're not being very
professional here, come on, youneed to meet him face to face.
(12:51):
And so I did.
And of course they were supernice and really cool guys.
So disappointing, sodisappointing.
But I know what you mean.
Sometimes you feel like peopleare stealing your ideas, but
probably if you step back alittle, there's like just
(13:11):
obvious ideas there for thepicking.
Ira (13:13):
There's so many ways to go about X, y or Z right.
Stacee (13:17):
Yeah, no one's really stealing your idea, because
you're not the only one that hasthe idea.
I think that's fair all right,well, um, let's move to the part
(13:41):
of the program where we'regoing to share our favorite tip
trick tool quote I, a number ofyears ago, did something that I
really enjoyed.
Ira (13:53):
It was really awesome.
It was a week-long healthcareinnovation boot camp that was
put on by MIT and by HarvardMedical School.
So you can go up there and fora week you put in 20-hour days
working on a healthcare projecton a team and have classes
during the day to talk about thethings that you're working on.
(14:14):
And I thought one of the reallyinteresting and sort of
valuable pieces of that camefrom this book called
Disciplined Entrepreneurship" byBill Aulet, and it kind of
outlines like all of the steps Ithink there's like 24 steps of
building a successful startup.
(14:35):
And yeah, it was reallyvaluable and I find it to be
certainly not the only, but areally helpful framework for
thinking about the variousthings that you need to figure
out and do successfully inbuilding a startup.
Stacee (14:57):
Oh, that's really cool.
It's funny you say that becauseI've been thinking a lot lately
about what are like the keyelements of building a startup
and kind of what order they'rein.
And I don't have 20, how manydid he have 24?
Ira (15:08):
Yes, I believe.
I believe it's 24.
I somewhere I have a poster oflike the 24 steps, but it's
folded up.
It's not like on my wall, soI'd have to find it for you.
Stacee (15:18):
I must not be thinking big enough, because I only have
five.
Ira (15:22):
I think there's like five categories they all fall into,
or something like that oh, I'llhave to go see if my categories
match his category.
Stacee (15:28):
So my first one was you have to have like you don't have
to have all of these, but themore you have, the more
successful you're going to be,is my thinking.
So the first one is you have tohave a product or service that
solves a real pain point.
The second is you have to havereally good technology and
(15:50):
infrastructure of your product.
Number three is you have tohave a really strong idea or
deliverable.
The product itself has to bedressed up nice and functional,
with the UI, ux and all of this.
And then the fourth is brandingthe UI, ux and all of this.
(16:15):
And then the fourth is branding, so you have a strong messaging
, so your customers know exactlywhat problem you're solving, so
they can buy from you.
And then the fifth is marketing, so people know that you exist.
Those are kind of my big fiveI've been thinking about.
Ira (16:29):
Very cool.
Well, this will probably beentirely unhelpful for a podcast
, but I'm sharing the screen ofthe 20, it was right, it's 24
Steps of DisciplinedEntrepreneurship by Bill and,
yeah, sort of covers.
You're pretty close right, likethe blue section here.
I don't know what the blues iscoded to, but there's market
(16:49):
segmentation, beachhead, marketend user profile, total
addressable market and thepersona of that buyer and then
your first 10 customers andanyway it goes all along.
But yeah, I think it is not asmaybe marketing focused as your
steps are.
(17:09):
You know, I think the latersteps here you know more along
the lines of, you know, lookingat the business model and
pricing framework and lifetimevalue and some of those things.
But I think I think you're onthe right track and here's
another framework for you toconsider.
Stacee (17:28):
Awesome.
I'm going to post this in thenotes for the podcast.
Ira (17:34):
Sounds good.
Stacee (17:36):
Okay, sure.
Ira (17:37):
My my poor reading of the map was not helpful to anybody.
Stacee (17:43):
I like that map.
My tip of the week is thispodcast called Radical Candor
and you know, when I wasbuilding Vet2Pet, one of the
things I was really passionateabout since it was my company
was that we were going to have agreat culture and we had to say
(18:05):
what great culture meant to usand for me.
One of my love languages orcore values is like brutal
honesty, just being honest, andI hate it when you work at a
company and people think thingsor say things to other people
about either you or the thingsyou're working on, because they
(18:29):
can't say them to you directly,because they feel maybe they
don't want to hurt your feelingsor whatever.
It's really quite hard to becandid with someone and so early
on, that was what I hired for.
That was one of the big corevalues is we're not going to
talk about each other, we'regoing to talk to each other, and
(18:52):
I found we had to get someskills around this and that
podcast was amazing.
So the whole team what we woulddo is we would listen to an
episode once a week and then wehave a meeting about it and
think about how we couldimplement that lesson of the
week in our real work life.
And it even came to the pointwhere we could say things like
(19:17):
I've got to share some radicalcandor with you.
Like we could reference thepodcast as a lead in to being
candid and it really helped usbe honest and truthful with one
another and you know, when youfeel that way, you feel very
respected, even if people don'tlike what you're doing.
(19:39):
Someone telling you that theydon't like what you're doing
feels a lot better than themtelling somebody else.
So I really love that podcast.
Ira (19:48):
Yeah, no, that's great.
I think I'm sure it comes fromsort of a book of the same title
that's oftentimes referencedand has, I think, great advice
about sort of building the typeof culture you just referenced.
I saw it must've been aLinkedIn post a week or two ago
where I kind of didn't reallylike it but I disagreed with it.
(20:11):
But it said that maybe I don't,I just don't know but it said
that there is also, like, Iguess, this group of people that
use that phrase radical candoras sort of just like an excuse
to be a dick.
Stacee (20:24):
Don't do that.
Ira (20:26):
Which is like the complete opposite of the intent of of the
book and sort of all themessages within the book and the
podcast.
So I thought I just thoughtthat was sort of interesting.
I saw that the other day.
I had a sort of a negativereaction to the comment and and
then you brought it up here.
Stacee (20:43):
Oh, they're listening, I know they are.
Well, and you know, beingcandid with someone is kind of a
superpower and you have to belike Spider-Man there, because
with great power comes greatresponsibility, so you can hurt
people's feelings still.
So you have to learn how to doit, and that's what the podcast
teaches you.
Ira (21:05):
I mean, ultimately, it's about people knowing that you
genuinely care about them.
And I oftentimes think tomyself, like I I usually don't
criticize people I don't like,because I don't view it as my
job to help people that I don'tlike to get better.
Um and so if I am critical ofyou or what you're doing and I'm
(21:32):
sharing that with you like it'sbecause I care about you, that
I, that I want to do that.
Like I, I tend to instinctivelyhave a desire to avoid conflict
, which I know is often nothealthy.
And so when I, when I pursue it, it's it's because I care about
the person and or care aboutthe outcome, but usually it's
because I care about the person.
Stacee (21:51):
Yeah, that's so good.
All right, well, let's spin thewheel and we'll see what we've
got coming up for next time.
What we've got coming up fornext time, oh, this is fitting.
What was the leadership styleat your company?
Ira (22:12):
Interesting, interesting.
We had several leaders and weall had a different style, but I
think we definitely had somethings in common, so that'll be
good to talk about.
Stacee (22:21):
All right, I'll see you guys next time.
Thanks for listening to theshow today.
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