July 15, 2024 • 30 mins
As we approach the end of our season, we break down how we landed on the pricing strategy for our products. We also discuss the pros and cons of pricing against a competitor.
We've got a TikTok to share by Luis Fernandes who shares some of his most loved and least favorite tequilas.
Lastly, for our tip of the week, we both decided to share some valuable lessons we learned from our parents.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ira (00:04):
Hello and welcome.
I am Ira Gordon and, along withStacee Santi, the host of the
Accidental Entrepreneurs Podcast.
We each previously foundedsuccessful companies Along the
way.
We became business owners andeventually sold those businesses
despite us having no realbackground in business or ever
even planning to becomeentrepreneurs.
In other words, we did this alldespite originally having no
(00:25):
idea what we were doing orgetting ourselves into.
In each episode of this podcast, we will share stories and tips
from our journey and we'llanswer a randomly chosen
question about our experience.
Let's jump right into the show.
How have you been, Stacee?
Stacee (00:42):
Oh, I'm doing good and you were.
I've been waiting to talk toyou because I know you were
recently at the Angel CapitalAssociation meeting, or
something like this.
Ira (00:53):
Yes, yes, they had their annual meeting and, as one of
the co-founders of a veterinaryangel group, we attended to try
to learn more about how to bestrun groups or best practices for
groups, as well as see whatelse is out there.
Um, and it was a good meeting.
Definitely, was surprised toactually see one veterinary
(01:16):
company that was there pitchingto angels.
That wasn't, and yet that aveterinary oncology company, no
less.
So that was nice
Stacee (01:24):
Which
Ira (01:25):
It was Elias Animal Health, which has a product that is, I
think, about to receive fullapproval for treatment of
osteosarcoma in dogs.
Very exciting stuff and uh, Imean it was great.
You know it is funny that Ikind of got into this idea of
(01:46):
angel investing because I justreally wanted to help
entrepreneurs with, you know,building companies and sort of
being involved in in the earlystages of these businesses in
this space that I know.
But it's always interesting tohear these people that have been
angel investors for a long timetalk about the actual
importance of angel investingfor the economy and for the
(02:11):
world and this notion that thevast majority of innovation
comes from new and startupbusinesses.
And new and startup businesseshave no chance of succeeding
without having an influx ofmoney to help them to build
whatever they need to build, andmost of that money comes from
(02:31):
angel investors.
And there's a perspective thatI'm not sure I totally agree
with, but I love hearing aboutand makes me feel good about
myself, that essentially angelinvestors are a critical and
driving force behind so manyaspects of a growing economy and
even things like the publicmarkets and stocks that are out
(02:55):
there for everybody.
Those things are ultimately theoutcome of the money that angel
investors put in there beforeanybody else was willing or able
to do so.
Stacee (03:04):
That's super cool.
And what was the venue like?
Was it really ritzy?
Ira (03:10):
No, no, it was.
It was very nice, but butnothing, nothing too crazy.
It was in the beautiful city ofColumbus, ohio.
Stacee (03:19):
Oh well, there you go.
Ira (03:22):
Nothing wrong with Columbus .
I spent a full year there as anintern at the Ohio State
University, and so it's nice togo back and it was a very nice
meeting so funny.
Stacee (03:33):
All you people say the Ohio State University.
I have friends that went to vetschool there.
Ira (03:43):
Yeah, it gets, it gets ingrained in you and for a while
and I think I'm still at thisfor a while stage, like you say
it, because you think it soundsfunny and it does sound funny
and then you said it because itsounds funny.
For so long that it justbecomes the way you say it oh my
gosh.
Stacee (04:00):
Okay, so Ira, we're on the tail end of the season.
We have three more episodesleft.
How are you feeling?
Ira (04:07):
I feel like it's been a very interesting season.
We've gotten to cover a lot ofground, talk to some interesting
people no one more interestingthan you, of course, Stacee and
it's been really fun for me.
How about you?
How are you feeling about it?
And it's been, it's been reallyfun for me.
How about you?
How are you ?
Stacee (04:25):
Well, I'm feeling a little bittersweet.
Like I do enjoy talking to youso much I I just find your, how
do I say this, your sense ofhumor and your stories just
always kill me, so I lovehearing what you have to say on
this and that.
But I think we've had a reallygreat season and getting to
(04:50):
know your stories and hear someof mine things I haven't thought
about for a long time.
It's been really fun.
Ira (05:01):
Well, what is our question for today?
Stacee (05:02):
The question for today is how did you decide on pricing
for your product?
Ira (05:21):
I guess I'll go first.
So initial pricing was like wewere sort of in a vacuum.
We developed this online courseto help people prepare for
their board exams and therewasn't really anything similar.
There were books that you couldbuy that were intended to be
(05:43):
for the same type of benefits,and we looked at the pricing of
those things and we thought weshouldn't be an order of
magnitude more or less expensivethan those.
But we thought that was alittle bit of a guide and as we
looked at that, the books wereanywhere from $100 to $200 for a
(06:03):
set of books, depending on howdeep you wanted to go into some
of those things.
And ultimately we decided on asubscription price of $149 for
vet prep somewhat I don't wantto say arbitrarily, but as an
educated guess would be maybe acharitable way to put it.
(06:24):
And then we just kind of had totake the wait and see approach
to see is this going to be aprice that you know veterinary
students who we know have nomoney and are in debt and taking
loans are going to say, yeah,we just don't have a budget for
something in that price range.
Or are they going to look atthat and say, well, you know, I
(06:45):
certainly can afford to not passthis exam and I need to study
and want to try to get the besttools available to do it, and
that seems like a small numberin that context, right?
So that's how we guessed andmaybe we'll talk a little bit
more about where we went fromthere.
But I'd love to hear kind ofhow you decided to price things
when you got started first.
Stacee (07:05):
Yeah, so I I had a weird way too.
I was working initially with acompany in San Francisco.
I was sort of out for allintents and purposes, white
labeling their product.
So they would charge me $20 amonth.
So I just said, all right, 20.
I knew from my vet clinic, likewhat a margin might?
(07:27):
The healthy margin might be 20,23%.
So I ended up pricing it at$100 a month and then I said if
you buy the year in advance, awhole year, then I'll give it to
you for $75 a month.
Because then I just wasthinking I could take that money
(07:49):
they prepaid me and use it tofund the business.
And most everybody did it thatway and I guess that's where I
came from is just trying to do aForex times.
Whatever, I was being chargedon the hard costs.
That is very simple math that Iprobably could have easily got
(08:10):
burned on.
But what ended up happening isthat was, you know, I could keep
my expenses down quite a bit,being just the only employee of
the company and I didn't at allcharge for my own time only
employee of the company and Ididn't at all charge for my own
time.
But then when I started growingit and pricing became more
(08:30):
serious.
I had to start looking at howmuch it costs to produce the
product and then balancing thatagainst how much could the
market bear that against howmuch could the market bear
balancing that against thevolume?
So it got to be kind of acomplicated mathematic formula
to try to figure out the rightpricing.
Ira (08:54):
Yeah, I think we similarly made I don't know if it's a
mistake, but just didn't reallyfactor in the value and cost of
all of the time that we put in.
But we paid an outside personaround $10,000 or so to build
our initial app and site, andthe ongoing maintenance costs of
(09:15):
things like a server are prettynegligible in the scheme of
things, and we had a productthat had really minimal sort of
incremental sort of cost rightLike you know sort of cost of
getting the first user.
You've got to build this wholeplatform so that it's a really
good product for that user.
But the cost of supporting usernumber 10 and number 100 and
(09:35):
number 1,000 is really prettylow overall until you get the
one really squeaky wheel thattakes up a lot of your time
squeaky wheel that takes up alot of your time.
And so we had to make someguesses of what is a range of
number of customers that wethink we might have that would
allow us to overcome our startupcosts.
But fortunately we guessedwrong.
(09:58):
We thought maybe 100 or 200people might use this and
ultimately, of course, foundthat almost everybody wanted to
use it.
Stacee (10:06):
What do you think about using your competitor's price to
price your own product?
Because that's what I got into.
As we got more mature andpeople started entering the
scene, you would have peoplecome in trying to grab market
share doing super low pricing,which gives you anxiety.
Ira (10:28):
Yeah, yeah, we did go on to develop a competitor, so this
became something we worried alot about, and I think you can
overthink it.
A ton is really what it comesdown to, and you can give
yourself a lot more anxiety thanyou should.
There's really no right answer.
I think.
If you are going to priceyourself above your competitors,
(10:49):
then you know essentially whatyou're telling the world is that
you think your product providesthem with better value than
your competitor's product andyou're worth it, right.
And if you price yourself belowyour competitors, um, in, the
message you hope they receive isyou can get something just as
good and it's going to cost youless.
But sometimes the messagepeople hear is maybe this is not
(11:13):
as good because it's a cheaperversion, right.
And if you price yourselfexactly the same, I don't know
exactly what that does, but whenwe developed a competitor, that
sort of became the marketdynamic is that they price their
product.
Where we priced our product andyou know when we did decide, you
know we think that we actuallyneed to be charging more for
this than we have been, for avariety of reasons.
(11:35):
You know we always worried.
Well, all of a sudden, you know, are we going to be priced
higher than our competitor andthat's going to change this
dynamic.
But our competitor actuallydecided no, I don't want to be
the low priced alternative, andso typically, when our prices
went up, our competitors' pricesfollowed, and again.
So I just think we overthoughtit a lot and worried about what
(11:56):
are people going to think aboutus doing X, y or Z, when the
reality was I don't thinkanybody was thinking about it
nearly as much as we were.
Stacee (12:04):
Yeah, well, I saw this TikTok yesterday actually, and
it was this guy reviewing thetop five tequilas that are
overrated, overpriced and notworth it, and it was some of the
brands.
Do you drink tequila?
Yeah, uh, you know, everycouple hours, no, occasionally
(12:27):
it was the brands that he saidto avoid, if I can.
I can't remember all of them,but one was, of course, Jose
Cuervo, and then Casamigos,which I've bought, Casamigos,
supposed to be top brand, andthen you've that's by George
Clooney they got all thosecelebrities right yeah, they got
all the celebrities.
Ira (12:49):
And then celebrities are drinking that tequila.
Stacee (12:50):
And then the other one I was surprised was Don Julio.
And what he was saying, and healleges, is that there's a lot
of additives in these tequilasand they got acquired by bigger
companies and left the family bybigger companies and left the
(13:11):
family and now they're in it.
You know, turning profits,making, cutting expenses, this
sort of thing.
But he was saying some of thesetequilas are super expensive
and you think that they're goingto be really great and they're
not.
And my friend recently turnedme on to the Costco tequila
where you're pricing it does saysomething about where you view
(13:50):
yourself as a level of quality.
Therefore, you shouldn't maybepanic and try to beat the
competitor on their pricing.
Ira (13:59):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of psychology around these
things, right, you hear aboutthese studies of wine, right,
since you brought up tequila.
Right, like, I'm not a winedrinker, but I know that there's
bottles of wine that costthousands of dollars and bottles
of wine that cost severaldollars, and if you blind a wine
drinker, they don't do verywell.
(14:21):
If you ask them which one'sbetter, like they generally
don't pick the ones that are themore expensive, right?
But at the same time, thepeople that are, they love wine,
right, they see the value thereand that you just sometimes
have to pick a price you thinkis right for your product and
(14:43):
see what the market says aboutit.
Stacee (14:45):
I'm gonna share this TikTok because for all the
tequila drinkers out therelistening, he does give super
good alternatives to thesebrands that maybe you're unhappy
with or you want to do your ownblinded taste test.
That'd be fun for Friday night.
Let's double blind taste testten tequilas and see what
(15:07):
happens.
Ira (15:08):
Maybe for our last episode we should do a tequila tasting
party.
Stacee (15:12):
Oh, we're doing that.
You nailed it Okay we're doingthat.
Lui Fernandes (15:18):
Five absolute most overrated tequilas that you
should be avoiding like theplague, no matter what that one
friend of yours keeps tellingyou.
First up, number one is JoseCuervo.
I get it, you're a cheapskate,you don't want to spend money on
tequila.
Well, there are plenty of otherbrands out there that are the
same price as this that areactually doing things the right
(15:39):
way.
Jose Cuervo may be one of theoldest names in the tequila game
, but today all its purposes isto make money.
They are cutting corners left,right and center to make as much
money as possible.
I'll be perfectly honest withyou if I open this bottle and
smell it, I will throw up.
And what's crazy about them isthat they don't even hide the
fact that they don't use 100%agave.
That's nowhere on their bottle,and they are not confirmed
(16:02):
additive free.
To be honest with you, they'reprobably one of the worst
offenders of using additives totry and make as much money as
possible.
Allegedly, I'm not accusingthem of anything, I'm just just
just just my thoughts.
And so you might think oh,that's fine, but it's so cheap.
Well, for the exact same price,you can get one of these two
options.
We have el tequileno misto,which, even though it's not 100
agave, it is confirmed additivefree by tequila matchmaker.
(16:24):
And you have arete, which is aconfirmed additive free 100 blue
ever agave tequila that is madeby an incredible tequila making
family, both of them about thesame price.
Next up, we have casamigos.
Casamigos is a brand that wasoriginally founded by george
clooney and he was one of theoriginal celebrity tequilas
after sammy hagar and cabo bo,but he is basically actually at
(16:47):
fault for all of these othercelebrities getting into the
tequila game because he was ableto sell this brand for $1
billion.
And now I know you probablyhave a bunch of friends who
swear that this brand is amazingand it's so smooth.
I hate to break it to you, butthey are allegedly using a lot
of additives in this as well.
They are cutting corners tomake a bad product to sell you
at a very high price, and Icould maybe understand your
(17:08):
argument if it was still cheap,but a bottle of Casa Amigos
today is going for like 45 to$55, for about the same exact
price as you would pay for alarger bottle of Casa Amigos
Reposado.
You can get a bottle of TequilaOcho Reposado, and Tequila Ocho
is confirmed additive free.
It is made at an incredibledistillery and the master
distiller is a man who has beenin the industry for a very long
(17:29):
time making some absolutelyincredible brands of tequila.
It's very light in color, whichthis looks super artificial
when compared to this Somethingto think about, something to
think about so nice, clean,smooth and I don't mean smooth
(17:52):
in the way that other people usethe term.
It's actually genuinelyincredible.
It tastes like agave, whichthat does not, and it's got a
really great natural caramel andcitrus flavor to it.
Really can't beat it, andespecially for the same price as
this garbage.
You can get a whole bottle ofthis.
The next most overrated brandis Tequila Herradura, and I know
you're probably already gettingdown there on the keyboards
(18:14):
talking about, but my granddaddyand my daddy used to drink
Herradura and it was really good.
And while this has linkages toone of the oldest distilleries
in Mexico, today it's owned byBrown Forman and they most of
these other big companiesstarted pumping it full of
additives to make as much of it,to make as much money as
possible.
I'm unfortunately going to haveto try this one because I
haven't tasted it in quite awhile, at least not on camera.
(18:37):
I'm really not looking forwardto it.
But all right, I'm gonna haveto use my Volans tasting glass.
I'm sorry, I apologize.
I don't like the smell of that.
No, what is that aftertaste man?
(19:00):
I don't, absolutely not.
No, no, no, no, no.
Oh, my god, and I forgot tomention this bottle cost me $40.
$40.
That's not a cheap amount.
That is a lot of money.
For a little bit less than $40,you can get cascajuin as an
alternative.
They do make some otherexpressions, but this entry
(19:22):
level is about $35.
At least, that's what I paidfor it it.
And now let's put something inthis glass that is truly worthy
of it.
Tequila Cascahuena is one of themost well-regarded distilleries
in Mexico and they make someabsolutely incredible stuff.
And this, for their almost likeentry-level or like more
budget-friendly option, is sotasty.
(19:42):
Oh, I didn't even taste it, I'msorry.
Well, as you can tell, thebottle is almost empty Very
bright, vegetal, good amount ofcitrus and just really tasty to
sip on and nice to wash that outof my mouth with.
Yeah, the next brand I want totalk to you about is Don Julio.
(20:04):
It is currently owned by Diageo, which is a giant mega spirits
conglomerate, and you guessed itpumped full of additives,
allegedly, allegedly.
I'm not tasting this one, I'vetasted it enough on camera.
I'm just going to move on tothe suggestion.
If you like the story of DonJulio and you think about how
long and how important thisbrand was for the tequila
industry, I agree with you.
But it is no longer the case.
(20:25):
It is not even owned by thesame family anymore.
It's owned by Diageo, a megagiant spirits corporation that
is really just pumping this fullof additives, allegedly again
to make as much money aspossible and make as many
products as possible so that youwill buy them.
But for the same price as youcan get Don Julio Blanco, you
can buy Lalo, which is a brandthat was actually created by the
original Don Julio's.
Lalo, which is a brand that wasactually created by the
original Don Julio's grandson.
(20:47):
It is confirmed additive free,it is very tasty and it is
roughly the same price as DonJulio.
So if you love the story of DonJulio, don't drink it anymore.
Drink what his actualdescendant is making right now
Very, very good.
And the last brand that I wantto talk to you about is, of
course, clase Azul.
I can hear the outrage fromthis side of the camera.
(21:11):
But Louis Glace Azul is so good, it's so smooth, and I've made
a whole other video about whatyou should be drinking instead.
But I do have a new addition tothat and I'm gonna be perfectly
honest with you.
I think you can even dig upthese quotes from the dude who
literally founded the company,where he literally said that his
tequila was bad so he went toMarketing.
Founded the company where heliterally said that his tequila
(21:31):
was bad, so he went to marketingschool not to learn how to make
a better tequila.
So do with that informationwhat you will, and my
recommendation of what youshould be drinking instead of
this garbage is pretty muchstill the same, and that is
learn to drink real tequila,tequila that was made well,
tequila that was made reallywell.
And recommendations I have areobviously, if you can find it,
some Fortaleza, very difficultto find, re, also very difficult
to find, or one of those is alittle bit easier to find, and
one of my favorites is Cascanes.
(21:53):
All of these are cheaper thanthat monstrosity and they are
really well made and incredibleand confirmed additive free.
Cierto Tequila it is made atthe same distillery that makes
Cimarron and Don Fulano.
These are two incredible brands.
This is confirmed out of thefree, and they are really trying
to play in that market ofluxury tequilas.
The only thing I can say aboutit is that it's made in a very
(22:14):
reputable distillery with reallygood juice inside.
The bottle looks really niceand it's still way better than
Classe Azul, and thank God theydidn't put a dumbbell on the top
of it.
And so there you have it.
Stop drinking junk tequila.
You're spending your money onstuff.
There's so many betteralternatives for the same price
and I hope this video gave you acouple of different options.
But if you want more tequilarecommendations, I have a whole
(22:36):
other video that you can checkout right over here.
Stacee (22:37):
Next, All right.
Well, let's hop over and talkabout our favorite tip trick
tool.
What do you have for ourlisteners today?
Ira (23:10):
I want to talk about probably the most special of all
of the mentors that I've had inmy life and probably most
people have had in their lives,and I haven't had a chance to
sort of bring them up yet.
But I want to talk about my momand dad and how they have sort
of shaped my entrepreneurialjourney.
You know, my mom is amazing.
Like she is probably one of thesmartest people I know and she
has this incredibly likeobjective and analytical mind
(23:35):
and you know, whenever she'sconfronted with a piece of
information like, she isunbiased by like all of the
other pieces of information thatshe knows and that she's seen
and she's sort of able to kindof really independently focus on
why did why?
Why is this?
You know what's going on hereand I have learned so much from
(23:56):
that.
I think when people tell methat they think I have insight,
it's almost always because oflike using kind of my mom's lens
, of of looking at things and um, and so she's amazing.
And then my dad is just the themost entrepreneurial person that
I know.
That's not an entrepreneur,right?
(24:17):
Like he just, you know, hewants to solve the world's
problems and it's not true tosay he's not an entrepreneur.
He actually started a nonprofitproject called the California
Vision Project to help provideeye care to the working poor of
California.
Like he's done all of thesethings and he's just truly a
(24:40):
seize the opportunity when otherpeople see problems and is just
the hardest working person thatI think I've probably ever
known as well.
And so they both just hadtremendous sort of
entrepreneurial influences on mein their own ways, even though
(25:01):
you know they didn't do thetypes of things that I have done
with respect to sort ofentrepreneurship.
But but they did better thingsright, like they did really cool
things in their own right.
Stacee (25:06):
You sound like you have amazing parents.
Ira (25:10):
Oh well, I better share then my tip, which is oh man, I
didn't mean to put pressure onyou.
Yeah, you better.
Stacee (25:17):
Okay, so my mom is someone that I really admire
because she got a job when shewas 19 and she went to college
for one year and then she endedup dropping out and going to
work for the railroad and shegot a job as a secretary a
stenographer, if you will.
(25:38):
That can write in shorthand.
It's amazing skill actually.
I don't know why.
Maybe it's still done.
I think we have AI now, but theoriginal AI was stenographers.
Right, she'd listen to her bossin meetings and take shorthand
notes.
Ira (25:52):
They still have those people in courtrooms that do
that stuff right.
Stacee (25:55):
Oh yeah, they do and turn that into a printed
document.
So she ended up climbing theranks at the Santa Fe Railroad
and became the assistant to thesuperintendent there and had so
many people she managed thatwere 99% men, that were 99% men
(26:22):
and my mom was really atrailblazer in having to.
I'm still surprised to hear someof the stories she tells me.
Like I didn't know, she tookbasically a crop duster plane to
go from meeting to meetingacross the different areas of
the railroad to make herbusiness meetings, so they
didn't have to drive, she wouldcharter the planes and I didn't
know.
She did all this stuff.
But she also has been veryinspirational to me when I'm a
(26:47):
woman trying to break through,sometimes in a man's world,
especially when you get up intothe top ranks of businesses,
which has led me to write mybook that I'm working on Stop
Acting Like a Girl and how toOvercome Traditional Girl Rules
Holding you Back, and my mom hada lot to do with that, I think,
just to be around someone thathad the confidence to have a job
(27:09):
like this back in the 70s, 80sit's a big deal.
And so my dad.
I have to credit him for mylove for technology because as
long as I've known my dad, whichhas been a very long time, he's
always tinkering with thingsand he's always trying to push
the limits to see whattechnology can do for him.
(27:31):
And he doesn't even knownecessarily that he's doing it.
But he's 78 now and he has allthese internet of things going
on in his house, like if I pullup to their house and they're
calling me and they're not home,they're like what do you need?
Because they have cameras on methat are giving them
(27:52):
notifications.
He has his refrigerator, hisTraeger, all of his stuff that
he does from his iPhone.
And now his latest obsession ishe just went to the electric
car conference in Phoenix andtest drove all these electric
cars and now he's obsessed withthe BMW i7.
(28:15):
I don't know.
He's telling me all the thingsit can do and he researches
stuff so deeply and then hemakes a decision on which
technology is going to adopt andI think because of that I've
never really subscribed to thetheory that technology is just
for young people, because my dad, he uses more technology than I
(28:37):
do and it's been inspiring towatch, honestly, all right.
Well, now that you know alittle bit more about our
parents, let's spin the wheeland see what our next question
will be have you ever fired acustomer?
(28:59):
Oh yeah, what are you doing?
Your own people are your ownveterinary customers, arseholes.
Ira (29:09):
You know customers always right Stacee.
Stacee (29:14):
Are they?
Ira (29:16):
No, they are not.
That is definitely a datedexpression that probably needs
to be retired.
Stacee (29:21):
That's some of the worst advice you could ever give
someone.
All right, well, I see you nexttime, Ira.
Ira (29:28):
Thanks, Stacee, see you soon.
Hello and welcome.
I am Ira Gordon and, along withStacee Santi, the host of the
Accidental Entrepreneurs Podcast.
We each previously foundedsuccessful companies Along the
way.
We became business owners andeventually sold those businesses
despite us having no realbackground in business or ever
even planning to becomeentrepreneurs.
In other words, we did this alldespite originally having no
(00:25):
idea what we were doing orgetting ourselves into.
In each episode of this podcast, we will share stories and tips
from our journey and we'llanswer a randomly chosen
question about our experience.
Let's jump right into the show.
How have you been, Stacee?
Stacee (00:42):
Oh, I'm doing good and you were.
I've been waiting to talk toyou because I know you were
recently at the Angel CapitalAssociation meeting, or
something like this.
Ira (00:53):
Yes, yes, they had their annual meeting and, as one of
the co-founders of a veterinaryangel group, we attended to try
to learn more about how to bestrun groups or best practices for
groups, as well as see whatelse is out there.
Um, and it was a good meeting.
Definitely, was surprised toactually see one veterinary
(01:16):
company that was there pitchingto angels.
That wasn't, and yet that aveterinary oncology company, no
less.
So that was nice
Stacee (01:24):
Which
Ira (01:25):
It was Elias Animal Health, which has a product that is, I
think, about to receive fullapproval for treatment of
osteosarcoma in dogs.
Very exciting stuff and uh, Imean it was great.
You know it is funny that Ikind of got into this idea of
(01:46):
angel investing because I justreally wanted to help
entrepreneurs with, you know,building companies and sort of
being involved in in the earlystages of these businesses in
this space that I know.
But it's always interesting tohear these people that have been
angel investors for a long timetalk about the actual
importance of angel investingfor the economy and for the
(02:11):
world and this notion that thevast majority of innovation
comes from new and startupbusinesses.
And new and startup businesseshave no chance of succeeding
without having an influx ofmoney to help them to build
whatever they need to build, andmost of that money comes from
(02:31):
angel investors.
And there's a perspective thatI'm not sure I totally agree
with, but I love hearing aboutand makes me feel good about
myself, that essentially angelinvestors are a critical and
driving force behind so manyaspects of a growing economy and
even things like the publicmarkets and stocks that are out
(02:55):
there for everybody.
Those things are ultimately theoutcome of the money that angel
investors put in there beforeanybody else was willing or able
to do so.
Stacee (03:04):
That's super cool.
And what was the venue like?
Was it really ritzy?
Ira (03:10):
No, no, it was.
It was very nice, but butnothing, nothing too crazy.
It was in the beautiful city ofColumbus, ohio.
Stacee (03:19):
Oh well, there you go.
Ira (03:22):
Nothing wrong with Columbus .
I spent a full year there as anintern at the Ohio State
University, and so it's nice togo back and it was a very nice
meeting so funny.
Stacee (03:33):
All you people say the Ohio State University.
I have friends that went to vetschool there.
Ira (03:43):
Yeah, it gets, it gets ingrained in you and for a while
and I think I'm still at thisfor a while stage, like you say
it, because you think it soundsfunny and it does sound funny
and then you said it because itsounds funny.
For so long that it justbecomes the way you say it oh my
gosh.
Stacee (04:00):
Okay, so Ira, we're on the tail end of the season.
We have three more episodesleft.
How are you feeling?
Ira (04:07):
I feel like it's been a very interesting season.
We've gotten to cover a lot ofground, talk to some interesting
people no one more interestingthan you, of course, Stacee and
it's been really fun for me.
How about you?
How are you feeling about it?
And it's been, it's been reallyfun for me.
How about you?
How are you ?
Stacee (04:25):
Well, I'm feeling a little bittersweet.
Like I do enjoy talking to youso much I I just find your, how
do I say this, your sense ofhumor and your stories just
always kill me, so I lovehearing what you have to say on
this and that.
But I think we've had a reallygreat season and getting to
(04:50):
know your stories and hear someof mine things I haven't thought
about for a long time.
It's been really fun.
Ira (05:01):
Well, what is our question for today?
Stacee (05:02):
The question for today is how did you decide on pricing
for your product?
Ira (05:21):
I guess I'll go first.
So initial pricing was like wewere sort of in a vacuum.
We developed this online courseto help people prepare for
their board exams and therewasn't really anything similar.
There were books that you couldbuy that were intended to be
(05:43):
for the same type of benefits,and we looked at the pricing of
those things and we thought weshouldn't be an order of
magnitude more or less expensivethan those.
But we thought that was alittle bit of a guide and as we
looked at that, the books wereanywhere from $100 to $200 for a
(06:03):
set of books, depending on howdeep you wanted to go into some
of those things.
And ultimately we decided on asubscription price of $149 for
vet prep somewhat I don't wantto say arbitrarily, but as an
educated guess would be maybe acharitable way to put it.
(06:24):
And then we just kind of had totake the wait and see approach
to see is this going to be aprice that you know veterinary
students who we know have nomoney and are in debt and taking
loans are going to say, yeah,we just don't have a budget for
something in that price range.
Or are they going to look atthat and say, well, you know, I
(06:45):
certainly can afford to not passthis exam and I need to study
and want to try to get the besttools available to do it, and
that seems like a small numberin that context, right?
So that's how we guessed andmaybe we'll talk a little bit
more about where we went fromthere.
But I'd love to hear kind ofhow you decided to price things
when you got started first.
Stacee (07:05):
Yeah, so I I had a weird way too.
I was working initially with acompany in San Francisco.
I was sort of out for allintents and purposes, white
labeling their product.
So they would charge me $20 amonth.
So I just said, all right, 20.
I knew from my vet clinic, likewhat a margin might?
(07:27):
The healthy margin might be 20,23%.
So I ended up pricing it at$100 a month and then I said if
you buy the year in advance, awhole year, then I'll give it to
you for $75 a month.
Because then I just wasthinking I could take that money
(07:49):
they prepaid me and use it tofund the business.
And most everybody did it thatway and I guess that's where I
came from is just trying to do aForex times.
Whatever, I was being chargedon the hard costs.
That is very simple math that Iprobably could have easily got
(08:10):
burned on.
But what ended up happening isthat was, you know, I could keep
my expenses down quite a bit,being just the only employee of
the company and I didn't at allcharge for my own time only
employee of the company and Ididn't at all charge for my own
time.
But then when I started growingit and pricing became more
(08:30):
serious.
I had to start looking at howmuch it costs to produce the
product and then balancing thatagainst how much could the
market bear that against howmuch could the market bear
balancing that against thevolume?
So it got to be kind of acomplicated mathematic formula
to try to figure out the rightpricing.
Ira (08:54):
Yeah, I think we similarly made I don't know if it's a
mistake, but just didn't reallyfactor in the value and cost of
all of the time that we put in.
But we paid an outside personaround $10,000 or so to build
our initial app and site, andthe ongoing maintenance costs of
(09:15):
things like a server are prettynegligible in the scheme of
things, and we had a productthat had really minimal sort of
incremental sort of cost rightLike you know sort of cost of
getting the first user.
You've got to build this wholeplatform so that it's a really
good product for that user.
But the cost of supporting usernumber 10 and number 100 and
(09:35):
number 1,000 is really prettylow overall until you get the
one really squeaky wheel thattakes up a lot of your time
squeaky wheel that takes up alot of your time.
And so we had to make someguesses of what is a range of
number of customers that wethink we might have that would
allow us to overcome our startupcosts.
But fortunately we guessedwrong.
(09:58):
We thought maybe 100 or 200people might use this and
ultimately, of course, foundthat almost everybody wanted to
use it.
Stacee (10:06):
What do you think about using your competitor's price to
price your own product?
Because that's what I got into.
As we got more mature andpeople started entering the
scene, you would have peoplecome in trying to grab market
share doing super low pricing,which gives you anxiety.
Ira (10:28):
Yeah, yeah, we did go on to develop a competitor, so this
became something we worried alot about, and I think you can
overthink it.
A ton is really what it comesdown to, and you can give
yourself a lot more anxiety thanyou should.
There's really no right answer.
I think.
If you are going to priceyourself above your competitors,
(10:49):
then you know essentially whatyou're telling the world is that
you think your product providesthem with better value than
your competitor's product andyou're worth it, right.
And if you price yourself belowyour competitors, um, in, the
message you hope they receive isyou can get something just as
good and it's going to cost youless.
But sometimes the messagepeople hear is maybe this is not
(11:13):
as good because it's a cheaperversion, right.
And if you price yourselfexactly the same, I don't know
exactly what that does, but whenwe developed a competitor, that
sort of became the marketdynamic is that they price their
product.
Where we priced our product andyou know when we did decide, you
know we think that we actuallyneed to be charging more for
this than we have been, for avariety of reasons.
(11:35):
You know we always worried.
Well, all of a sudden, you know, are we going to be priced
higher than our competitor andthat's going to change this
dynamic.
But our competitor actuallydecided no, I don't want to be
the low priced alternative, andso typically, when our prices
went up, our competitors' pricesfollowed, and again.
So I just think we overthoughtit a lot and worried about what
(11:56):
are people going to think aboutus doing X, y or Z, when the
reality was I don't thinkanybody was thinking about it
nearly as much as we were.
Stacee (12:04):
Yeah, well, I saw this TikTok yesterday actually, and
it was this guy reviewing thetop five tequilas that are
overrated, overpriced and notworth it, and it was some of the
brands.
Do you drink tequila?
Yeah, uh, you know, everycouple hours, no, occasionally
(12:27):
it was the brands that he saidto avoid, if I can.
I can't remember all of them,but one was, of course, Jose
Cuervo, and then Casamigos,which I've bought, Casamigos,
supposed to be top brand, andthen you've that's by George
Clooney they got all thosecelebrities right yeah, they got
all the celebrities.
Ira (12:49):
And then celebrities are drinking that tequila.
Stacee (12:50):
And then the other one I was surprised was Don Julio.
And what he was saying, and healleges, is that there's a lot
of additives in these tequilasand they got acquired by bigger
companies and left the family bybigger companies and left the
(13:11):
family and now they're in it.
You know, turning profits,making, cutting expenses, this
sort of thing.
But he was saying some of thesetequilas are super expensive
and you think that they're goingto be really great and they're
not.
And my friend recently turnedme on to the Costco tequila
where you're pricing it does saysomething about where you view
(13:50):
yourself as a level of quality.
Therefore, you shouldn't maybepanic and try to beat the
competitor on their pricing.
Ira (13:59):
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of psychology around these
things, right, you hear aboutthese studies of wine, right,
since you brought up tequila.
Right, like, I'm not a winedrinker, but I know that there's
bottles of wine that costthousands of dollars and bottles
of wine that cost severaldollars, and if you blind a wine
drinker, they don't do verywell.
(14:21):
If you ask them which one'sbetter, like they generally
don't pick the ones that are themore expensive, right?
But at the same time, thepeople that are, they love wine,
right, they see the value thereand that you just sometimes
have to pick a price you thinkis right for your product and
(14:43):
see what the market says aboutit.
Stacee (14:45):
I'm gonna share this TikTok because for all the
tequila drinkers out therelistening, he does give super
good alternatives to thesebrands that maybe you're unhappy
with or you want to do your ownblinded taste test.
That'd be fun for Friday night.
Let's double blind taste testten tequilas and see what
(15:07):
happens.
Ira (15:08):
Maybe for our last episode we should do a tequila tasting
party.
Stacee (15:12):
Oh, we're doing that.
You nailed it Okay we're doingthat.
Lui Fernandes (15:18):
Five absolute most overrated tequilas that you
should be avoiding like theplague, no matter what that one
friend of yours keeps tellingyou.
First up, number one is JoseCuervo.
I get it, you're a cheapskate,you don't want to spend money on
tequila.
Well, there are plenty of otherbrands out there that are the
same price as this that areactually doing things the right
(15:39):
way.
Jose Cuervo may be one of theoldest names in the tequila game
, but today all its purposes isto make money.
They are cutting corners left,right and center to make as much
money as possible.
I'll be perfectly honest withyou if I open this bottle and
smell it, I will throw up.
And what's crazy about them isthat they don't even hide the
fact that they don't use 100%agave.
That's nowhere on their bottle,and they are not confirmed
(16:02):
additive free.
To be honest with you, they'reprobably one of the worst
offenders of using additives totry and make as much money as
possible.
Allegedly, I'm not accusingthem of anything, I'm just just
just just my thoughts.
And so you might think oh,that's fine, but it's so cheap.
Well, for the exact same price,you can get one of these two
options.
We have el tequileno misto,which, even though it's not 100
agave, it is confirmed additivefree by tequila matchmaker.
(16:24):
And you have arete, which is aconfirmed additive free 100 blue
ever agave tequila that is madeby an incredible tequila making
family, both of them about thesame price.
Next up, we have casamigos.
Casamigos is a brand that wasoriginally founded by george
clooney and he was one of theoriginal celebrity tequilas
after sammy hagar and cabo bo,but he is basically actually at
(16:47):
fault for all of these othercelebrities getting into the
tequila game because he was ableto sell this brand for $1
billion.
And now I know you probablyhave a bunch of friends who
swear that this brand is amazingand it's so smooth.
I hate to break it to you, butthey are allegedly using a lot
of additives in this as well.
They are cutting corners tomake a bad product to sell you
at a very high price, and Icould maybe understand your
(17:08):
argument if it was still cheap,but a bottle of Casa Amigos
today is going for like 45 to$55, for about the same exact
price as you would pay for alarger bottle of Casa Amigos
Reposado.
You can get a bottle of TequilaOcho Reposado, and Tequila Ocho
is confirmed additive free.
It is made at an incredibledistillery and the master
distiller is a man who has beenin the industry for a very long
(17:29):
time making some absolutelyincredible brands of tequila.
It's very light in color, whichthis looks super artificial
when compared to this Somethingto think about, something to
think about so nice, clean,smooth and I don't mean smooth
(17:52):
in the way that other people usethe term.
It's actually genuinelyincredible.
It tastes like agave, whichthat does not, and it's got a
really great natural caramel andcitrus flavor to it.
Really can't beat it, andespecially for the same price as
this garbage.
You can get a whole bottle ofthis.
The next most overrated brandis Tequila Herradura, and I know
you're probably already gettingdown there on the keyboards
(18:14):
talking about, but my granddaddyand my daddy used to drink
Herradura and it was really good.
And while this has linkages toone of the oldest distilleries
in Mexico, today it's owned byBrown Forman and they most of
these other big companiesstarted pumping it full of
additives to make as much of it,to make as much money as
possible.
I'm unfortunately going to haveto try this one because I
haven't tasted it in quite awhile, at least not on camera.
(18:37):
I'm really not looking forwardto it.
But all right, I'm gonna haveto use my Volans tasting glass.
I'm sorry, I apologize.
I don't like the smell of that.
No, what is that aftertaste man?
(19:00):
I don't, absolutely not.
No, no, no, no, no.
Oh, my god, and I forgot tomention this bottle cost me $40.
$40.
That's not a cheap amount.
That is a lot of money.
For a little bit less than $40,you can get cascajuin as an
alternative.
They do make some otherexpressions, but this entry
(19:22):
level is about $35.
At least, that's what I paidfor it it.
And now let's put something inthis glass that is truly worthy
of it.
Tequila Cascahuena is one of themost well-regarded distilleries
in Mexico and they make someabsolutely incredible stuff.
And this, for their almost likeentry-level or like more
budget-friendly option, is sotasty.
(19:42):
Oh, I didn't even taste it, I'msorry.
Well, as you can tell, thebottle is almost empty Very
bright, vegetal, good amount ofcitrus and just really tasty to
sip on and nice to wash that outof my mouth with.
Yeah, the next brand I want totalk to you about is Don Julio.
(20:04):
It is currently owned by Diageo, which is a giant mega spirits
conglomerate, and you guessed itpumped full of additives,
allegedly, allegedly.
I'm not tasting this one, I'vetasted it enough on camera.
I'm just going to move on tothe suggestion.
If you like the story of DonJulio and you think about how
long and how important thisbrand was for the tequila
industry, I agree with you.
But it is no longer the case.
(20:25):
It is not even owned by thesame family anymore.
It's owned by Diageo, a megagiant spirits corporation that
is really just pumping this fullof additives, allegedly again
to make as much money aspossible and make as many
products as possible so that youwill buy them.
But for the same price as youcan get Don Julio Blanco, you
can buy Lalo, which is a brandthat was actually created by the
original Don Julio's.
Lalo, which is a brand that wasactually created by the
original Don Julio's grandson.
(20:47):
It is confirmed additive free,it is very tasty and it is
roughly the same price as DonJulio.
So if you love the story of DonJulio, don't drink it anymore.
Drink what his actualdescendant is making right now
Very, very good.
And the last brand that I wantto talk to you about is, of
course, clase Azul.
I can hear the outrage fromthis side of the camera.
(21:11):
But Louis Glace Azul is so good, it's so smooth, and I've made
a whole other video about whatyou should be drinking instead.
But I do have a new addition tothat and I'm gonna be perfectly
honest with you.
I think you can even dig upthese quotes from the dude who
literally founded the company,where he literally said that his
tequila was bad so he went toMarketing.
Founded the company where heliterally said that his tequila
(21:31):
was bad, so he went to marketingschool not to learn how to make
a better tequila.
So do with that informationwhat you will, and my
recommendation of what youshould be drinking instead of
this garbage is pretty muchstill the same, and that is
learn to drink real tequila,tequila that was made well,
tequila that was made reallywell.
And recommendations I have areobviously, if you can find it,
some Fortaleza, very difficultto find, re, also very difficult
to find, or one of those is alittle bit easier to find, and
one of my favorites is Cascanes.
(21:53):
All of these are cheaper thanthat monstrosity and they are
really well made and incredibleand confirmed additive free.
Cierto Tequila it is made atthe same distillery that makes
Cimarron and Don Fulano.
These are two incredible brands.
This is confirmed out of thefree, and they are really trying
to play in that market ofluxury tequilas.
The only thing I can say aboutit is that it's made in a very
(22:14):
reputable distillery with reallygood juice inside.
The bottle looks really niceand it's still way better than
Classe Azul, and thank God theydidn't put a dumbbell on the top
of it.
And so there you have it.
Stop drinking junk tequila.
You're spending your money onstuff.
There's so many betteralternatives for the same price
and I hope this video gave you acouple of different options.
But if you want more tequilarecommendations, I have a whole
(22:36):
other video that you can checkout right over here.
Stacee (22:37):
Next, All right.
Well, let's hop over and talkabout our favorite tip trick
tool.
What do you have for ourlisteners today?
Ira (23:10):
I want to talk about probably the most special of all
of the mentors that I've had inmy life and probably most
people have had in their lives,and I haven't had a chance to
sort of bring them up yet.
But I want to talk about my momand dad and how they have sort
of shaped my entrepreneurialjourney.
You know, my mom is amazing.
Like she is probably one of thesmartest people I know and she
has this incredibly likeobjective and analytical mind
(23:35):
and you know, whenever she'sconfronted with a piece of
information like, she isunbiased by like all of the
other pieces of information thatshe knows and that she's seen
and she's sort of able to kindof really independently focus on
why did why?
Why is this?
You know what's going on hereand I have learned so much from
(23:56):
that.
I think when people tell methat they think I have insight,
it's almost always because oflike using kind of my mom's lens
, of of looking at things and um, and so she's amazing.
And then my dad is just the themost entrepreneurial person that
I know.
That's not an entrepreneur,right?
(24:17):
Like he just, you know, hewants to solve the world's
problems and it's not true tosay he's not an entrepreneur.
He actually started a nonprofitproject called the California
Vision Project to help provideeye care to the working poor of
California.
Like he's done all of thesethings and he's just truly a
(24:40):
seize the opportunity when otherpeople see problems and is just
the hardest working person thatI think I've probably ever
known as well.
And so they both just hadtremendous sort of
entrepreneurial influences on mein their own ways, even though
(25:01):
you know they didn't do thetypes of things that I have done
with respect to sort ofentrepreneurship.
But but they did better thingsright, like they did really cool
things in their own right.
Stacee (25:06):
You sound like you have amazing parents.
Ira (25:10):
Oh well, I better share then my tip, which is oh man, I
didn't mean to put pressure onyou.
Yeah, you better.
Stacee (25:17):
Okay, so my mom is someone that I really admire
because she got a job when shewas 19 and she went to college
for one year and then she endedup dropping out and going to
work for the railroad and shegot a job as a secretary a
stenographer, if you will.
(25:38):
That can write in shorthand.
It's amazing skill actually.
I don't know why.
Maybe it's still done.
I think we have AI now, but theoriginal AI was stenographers.
Right, she'd listen to her bossin meetings and take shorthand
notes.
Ira (25:52):
They still have those people in courtrooms that do
that stuff right.
Stacee (25:55):
Oh yeah, they do and turn that into a printed
document.
So she ended up climbing theranks at the Santa Fe Railroad
and became the assistant to thesuperintendent there and had so
many people she managed thatwere 99% men, that were 99% men
(26:22):
and my mom was really atrailblazer in having to.
I'm still surprised to hear someof the stories she tells me.
Like I didn't know, she tookbasically a crop duster plane to
go from meeting to meetingacross the different areas of
the railroad to make herbusiness meetings, so they
didn't have to drive, she wouldcharter the planes and I didn't
know.
She did all this stuff.
But she also has been veryinspirational to me when I'm a
(26:47):
woman trying to break through,sometimes in a man's world,
especially when you get up intothe top ranks of businesses,
which has led me to write mybook that I'm working on Stop
Acting Like a Girl and how toOvercome Traditional Girl Rules
Holding you Back, and my mom hada lot to do with that, I think,
just to be around someone thathad the confidence to have a job
(27:09):
like this back in the 70s, 80sit's a big deal.
And so my dad.
I have to credit him for mylove for technology because as
long as I've known my dad, whichhas been a very long time, he's
always tinkering with thingsand he's always trying to push
the limits to see whattechnology can do for him.
(27:31):
And he doesn't even knownecessarily that he's doing it.
But he's 78 now and he has allthese internet of things going
on in his house, like if I pullup to their house and they're
calling me and they're not home,they're like what do you need?
Because they have cameras on methat are giving them
(27:52):
notifications.
He has his refrigerator, hisTraeger, all of his stuff that
he does from his iPhone.
And now his latest obsession ishe just went to the electric
car conference in Phoenix andtest drove all these electric
cars and now he's obsessed withthe BMW i7.
(28:15):
I don't know.
He's telling me all the thingsit can do and he researches
stuff so deeply and then hemakes a decision on which
technology is going to adopt andI think because of that I've
never really subscribed to thetheory that technology is just
for young people, because my dad, he uses more technology than I
(28:37):
do and it's been inspiring towatch, honestly, all right.
Well, now that you know alittle bit more about our
parents, let's spin the wheeland see what our next question
will be have you ever fired acustomer?
(28:59):
Oh yeah, what are you doing?
Your own people are your ownveterinary customers, arseholes.
Ira (29:09):
You know customers always right Stacee.
Stacee (29:14):
Are they?
Ira (29:16):
No, they are not.
That is definitely a datedexpression that probably needs
to be retired.
Stacee (29:21):
That's some of the worst advice you could ever give
someone.
All right, well, I see you nexttime, Ira.
Ira (29:28):
Thanks, Stacee, see you soon.
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Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides.  Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer  Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
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Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.