November 24, 2024 • 33 mins
What if the family you grew up with isn't the family you started with? We wrap up our first season by unpacking our personal experiences as adoptees, reflecting on the journey of finding identity and acceptance within adoptive families. As a transracial adoptees, Meg has felt the impact of societal challenges like racism, especially in light of recent global events. Our candid insights offer a fresh perspective on the intricacies of heritage and belonging, while exploring the fears and complexities of raising children in today's world.
There's a hot debate simmering around Safe Haven Baby Boxes and their role in the adoption landscape. Join us as we tackle the ethical dilemmas and psychological implications these boxes present. Are they truly a solution for desperate parents, or do they merely paper over systemic cracks? We examine the disparity in practices across states and the broader societal priorities at play, calling for more robust support systems and legislative reforms to protect vulnerable women and children.
Lastly, we delve into the troubling legislative oversights that impact international adoptees and their citizenship status. With poignant stories and a dash of humor, we highlight the urgent need for change, advocating for the rights of all adoptees. As we look toward the next season, we tease the intriguing topic of adult adoption, promising more thought-provoking conversations. Thank you for joining us this season, and we invite you to continue this journey with us, sharing "The AdopTwins" with those who might find a home in our stories.
https://www.adopteesforjustice.org/adoptee-citizenship-act
Follow us on IG @theadoptwins
visit us on the web at https://adoptwins.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Meg (00:19):
Hi, this is Meg.
Billy (00:21):
And this is Billy.
Meg (00:22):
And we are.
Billy (00:23):
The Adopt Twins.
Meg (00:27):
Meg and this is Billy, and we are the Adopt Twin Welcome to
a podcast from two adoptees whoare navigating life loss,
moving on and growing up.
Billy (00:32):
For our adopted friends we hope to bring you a familiar
point of view and for ourfriends who aren't welcome to
the complicated jungle of how weget on.
Meg (00:46):
Thi is our final episode of our first season.
Billy (00:48):
ey, it's taken time and it's took a lot of introspection
and a lot of tears, but a lotof joy, a lot of laughs, but
we're here we are.
Meg (00:58):
e decided that we will end each season with an episode
about how we feel about adoptionat this time, because, as we
grow, as we learn, as we talk toall of you, as things change in
the world, our feelings willchange, because the world is
fluid.
So I think it's a good idea tocheck in with each other, and
(01:20):
hopefully with you all throughthe comments, about how we feel
about adoption at this time inour lives.
Billy (01:25):
Yeah.
Meg (01:31):
Some adoptees have had really bad experiences with
their adoptive families
Billy (01:35):
Right
Meg (01:36):
nd they don't feel like those are their real parents
because it's been such a badexperience for them.
Another adoptee says that no,she's wrong, they are real
parents.
I can see where they could gettriggered by that.
Billy (01:51):
Yeah, I could see that I mean when I bring up that I'm
adopted, eventually at somepoint in a conversation, people
have a hard time justreferencing my parents as my
parents.
I don't know if you'veexperienced that.
Meg (02:03):
Oh yeah
Billy (02:03):
, hey're just like so you're, you're fake pet or
you're what do you call thepeople you grew up with?
It's like they're my parents.
It was like, well, what aboutthe?
It wa like the other.
I'm like I don't know the otherpeople.
So they're biological family, Iguess, I could say, but I don't
know them.
So my parents are my parents.
That's just flat out straightup for me.
Somebody who's my age, who wasraised from their biological
(02:24):
parents, and how my familyraised me.
Meg (02:26):
I mean, I feel like my adoptive parents didn't raise me
differently.
I don't know, to be honest, Idon't think they did, but I do
consider them my adoptiveparents.
That may be because I'mtransracial.
So once I realized that Iwasn't white, which at some
point in my life, I don't knowwhy I just always considered
(02:48):
myself white.
Obviously, I knew that I wasfrom Korea, which is an Asian
country and everything, but itwas just so ingrained in me, the
whole whiteness, that I justdidn't consider myself anything
but white.
Billy (03:00):
How long was that?
Meg (03:01):
Oh, probably until.
Probably until about 2020.
Billy (03:05):
Gotcha
Meg (03:05):
, eah.
So it really hit me duringCOVID when the racism got really
bad again.
I mean, I've always facedracism, but it got a lot worse
during 2020.
Billy (03:19):
Yeah, and it's still continuing to.
Meg (03:21):
I think a big part of why I started recognizing and
claiming my Asian heritage isbecause I have a child now,
Billy (03:29):
ight
Meg (03:30):
and he is half Korean and it's something that he's going
to face, and so I think that'swhat kind of woke me up to it
when the racism kicked up reallybad in 2020.
Billy (03:41):
Yeah.
Does he know that there'sprobable adversity he's going to
face at this point in his lifeor?
Meg (03:47):
Yeah, I don't hide things from him.
I try not to say it in a scaryway and in a way that's over his
head.
But I was having a really,really difficult time at one
point and I was really upset alot and I was taking it out on
everybody around me, which he'saround me a lot, and I felt
really, really bad.
So I told him.
I said hey, kiddo, I want totell you why I've been so upset.
(04:09):
And I said there are somepeople who are making really bad
choices and hurting Asian women.
So it has me really, reallyscared.
Do you know why?
And he said well, you're Asian.
And I said that's right, I am.
And he said and he said well,you're Asian, and I said that's
right, I am.
And he said and you're a woman?
And I said that's right, I am.
So that's why I've been really,really scared, and so I don't
(04:31):
tell him that they're killingpeople.
Billy (04:33):
He understands that it's something you are affected by
and people are doing bad things,right.
And then the news gaslights you, right, which is even more
infuriating.
Well, you know, it could havebeen a personal thing.
What are you talking about?
No, some people just like toshoot sometimes.
I'm still never going toforgive the blatant, malicious,
(04:58):
feigned ignorance of some of theSupreme Court justices for
having justification of oh,everything will be all right,
just adopt Facebook handed overmessenger records in Nebraska to
the police to prove that ateenager and their mother were
chatting and then going to getan abortion.
Meg (05:17):
So what kind of world are we living in right now?
Billy (05:21):
How are you not screaming at the top of your lungs, being
like, hey, guess what?
This is horrifying.
Meg (05:25):
Yeah, I am so scared for my child to grow up in this world
right now.
Billy (05:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think every parent is terrified of
their child to grow up in everytime period, but it just seems
that there are definitely someaspects of the trajectory we
were going in which is just whatare we doing, guys?
Meg (05:45):
I know what's the reason?
Billy (05:46):
Did the populace really make the rich that angry that
they're just like, oh, got totighten up this leash because we
can't have you running out intothe road, or we know what's
good for you, or yada, yada,yada.
Meg (05:57):
I mean I honestly would, if I was not a mother, work on
trying to move out of thiscountry.
And If I was not a mother, workon trying to move out of this
country, and honestly, if Ididn't have to deal with his
father, I would, even with mychild, try to work on moving out
of this country.
But just trying to do that withhis father would just be such
such a thing.
(06:17):
So, but I always want to dowhat's best for my child and I
honestly feel like best for mychild right now is to not have
them grow up in this country,and that is a terrible thing.
Billy (06:29):
But it doesn't make it any less true.
That's where we are listeners.
At the end of season one, megwould love to flee the country.
That's what we were all lookingforward to as we graduated high
school and pledged allegianceto the flag.
They're like ah, everything'sgoing to be great, smash cut.
I can't leave, but for reasonsthat are totally justifiable, I
(06:51):
need to get out of here with myfamily.
Meg (06:55):
It is the handmaid's tale.
Billy (06:57):
It's the frog that is slowly boiling in water.
They just keep turning up thetemperature, little by little.
Meg (07:12):
The baby boxes.
So, that is something that'sbeen going on in Korea for quite
some time ow.
They've passed a law in Koreathat the mothers have to
register the child on theirfamily registry so that the
children can get information andthey can't be left, like me,
with nothing, which isabsolutely amazing that that got
(07:33):
passed.
Adoptees went and reallyadvocated for that in Korea, so
it's a very, very amazing thing.
But there is a church who hasthis baby box and they offer a
place to put the information,but the mother or whoever leaves
the child doesn't have to leaveinformation and it's kind of
(07:53):
this, this gray area, and it'sstill going on and hasn't been
shut down yet.
But apparently I've read thatbaby boxes are starting to pop
up in the US.
Billy (08:04):
What
Meg (08:05):
, eah, yeah.
Billy (08:07):
Oh, that's going to keep happening.
Oh man, of course that's goingto keep happening.
You take away people's rightsto choose.
Well, it's just going to createa more influx of unwanted oh my
yeah.
Yeah
Meg (08:18):
, ost-roe conservatives promote way to give up newborns.
The havens can be boxes whichallow parents to avoid speaking
to anyone or even being seenwhen surrendering their babies.
Billy (08:28):
So now I'm even more mad.
Are you kidding me?
Meg (08:31):
The safe haven baby box at a firehouse in Carmel, indiana,
looked like a library book drop.
It had been available for threeyears for anyone who wanted to
surrender a baby anonymously.
No one had ever used it, though, until early April when its
alarm went off.
Victor Andres, a firefighter,opened the box and found, to his
disbelief, a newborn boywrapped in towels.
(08:51):
This article was from August 6,2022, and it was in the New
York Times.
The discovery made the local TVnews, which praised the courage
of the mother, calling it atime for celebration.
Later that month, mr Andrespulled another newborn, a girl
from the box.
In May, a third baby appeared.
(09:12):
By summer, three more infantswere left at the baby box
locations throughout the state.
The baby boxes are part of theSafe Haven movement, which has
long been closely tied toanti-abortion activism.
Safe Havens offer desperatemothers a way to surrender their
newborn babies anonymously foradoption, and advocates say
avoid hurting, abandoning oreven killing them.
The havens can be boxes whichallow parents to avoid speaking
(09:33):
to anyone or even being seenwhen surrendering their babies.
More traditionally, the havensare locations such as hospitals
and fire stations, where staffmembers are trained to accept a
face-to-face handoff from aparent in crisis.
All 50 states have safe havenlaws meant to protect
surrendering mothers fromcriminal charges.
The first, known as the BabyMoses Law, was passed in Texas
(09:54):
in 1999 after a number of womenabandoned infants in trash cans
and dumpsters.
But what became as a way toprevent the most extreme cases
of child abuse has become abroader phenomenon, supported
especially among the religiousright.
Billy (10:09):
Let's get them in.
We got numbers dwindling.
How can we get some more peopleinto parish?
Meg (10:13):
The thing is that the top adoption agencies in the US, I
believe, if I remember correctlyfrom another article I read are
tied to religious organizationsand they're not non-profit.
Billy (10:25):
Right, they've got a fee there.
Meg (10:27):
Over the past five years, more than 12 states have passed
laws allowing baby boxes orexpanding safe haven options in
other ways.
Billy (10:34):
I feel like there's a way that if a mother had a chance
to choose earlier regarding thefuture of a potential life,
maybe we wouldn't be needingbaby boxes as much.
I mean, it might be a relic ofa bygone age to give somebody
(10:54):
that choice.
I'm going to have to go toIndiana and get a picture next
to a baby box.
Meg (11:02):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I guess it's better than being
left just on the street behind amarketplace.
Billy (11:08):
Sure, maybe I don't know.
Meg (11:11):
I guess, as long as somebody's making sure to come
and check the box, because atleast at the marketplace maybe
someone would give me food.
Billy (11:23):
What if the buzzer stops working?
What if the buzzer stopsworking.
What if the buzzer stops?
Meg (11:26):
Wbatteries in the buzzer.
Billy (11:28):
h boy, it was a hot one.
Sorry, baby, unfortunately itdidn't make it this time, but
we'll make sure to put thedouble a's back in the buzzer.
Oh my god.
Meg (11:38):
During oral arguments in the case Dobbs v Jackson Women's
Health Organization, justiceAmy Coney Barrett suggested that
safe haven laws offered analternative to abortion by
allowing women to avoid theburdens of parenting.
In the court's decision,justice Samuel Alito Jr cited
safe haven laws as a moderndevelopment.
Billy (12:00):
Modern development.
ou say why are we listening toany of these people?
Meg (12:05):
For many experts in adoption and women's health,
safe havens are hardly.
Oh my no, I don't know thisword.
P-a-n-a-c-e -A.
English is my second language.
Billy (12:18):
Oh, panacea, the solution or remedy for all difficulties
and diseases.
You mean, you know, like snakeoil.
It's named after the Greekgoddess of universal remedy.
Panacea is any supposed remedythat is claimed to cure all
diseases and prolong lifeindefinitely.
Meg (12:40):
Okay, so let's try using it in a sentence.
But for many experts inadoption and women's health,
safe havens are hardly a panacea.
To them, a safe haven surrenderis a sign that a woman fell
through the cracks of existingsystems.
Billy (12:54):
Fund the systems.
Meg (12:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Billy (12:57):
h my god.
Meg (12:58):
They may have concealed their pregnancies and given
birth without prenatal care, orthey may suffer from domestic
violence, drug addiction,homelessness or mental illness.
You cannot just put Band-Aidsover the problems.
You need to go to the rootcauses and fix the root causes.
Billy (13:15):
Can't just put a baby box up everywhere and then blame
the system.
So my question is what happensto the kids after this?
They get put in a baby box.
What happens?
Meg (13:23):
The next paragraph says the adoptions themselves could also
be problematic, with womenpotentially unaware that they
are terminating paternal rightsand children left with little
information about their origins.
Billy (13:36):
That's not going to come back and send somebody to the
psych ward in middle school oranything to the psych ward in
middle school or anything.
Also, that's not going to causea severe amount of resentment.
I mean even like, if you're thebest adoptive parents and
everything was right, you learnof a trauma that hard.
(13:56):
There's no coming back Lke youcan be, like, well, maybe a
little bit of love will fix you.
And then as a child you wouldsay, well, maybe a little bit of
go F yourself is what youdeserve, what the world deserves
.
I want to watch it burn, butI'll probably just inflict the
damage onto myself because I amnot wanted here Apparently.
(14:16):
Okay, so that's cool.
You said you want to leave thiscountry.
Yeah, I'm not quite sure ifthey'll let you when they close
the borders.
Meg (14:29):
Go There's more than 100 baby boxes across the country.
Billy (14:33):
God.
Meg (14:34):
Ms Kelsey is a former medic and firefighter and an adoptee
who says she was abandoned atbirth by her teenage mother, who
had been raped.
She first encountered a babysafe a concept dating back to
medieval Europe on a 2013 tripto a church in Cape Town, south
Africa, where she was on apro-abstinence speaking tour.
(14:55):
She returned home to Indiana tofind a non-profit Safe Haven
Baby Boxes and installed herfirst baby box in 2016.
At Safe Haven Baby Boxes andinstalled her first baby box in
201 To use one of Ms Kelsey'sboxes, a parent pulls open a
metal drawer to reveal atemperature-controlled hospital
bassinet.
Once the baby is inside and thedrawer is closed, it locks
automatically.
The parent cannot reopen it, analarm is triggered and the
(15:17):
facility's staff member canaccess the bassinet.
The box also sends out a 911call.
21 babies have been left in thebox since 2017.
The average amount of time achild is inside the box is less
than two minutes.
Billy (15:35):
Yeah, that's enough.
That's enough to cause allkinds of long-lasting effects
psychologically.
Oh my God.
Meg (15:43):
Oh, she's raised money to put up dozens of billboards
advertising and predicted thatwithin five years her boxes
would be in all 50 states.
In California, unlike inIndiana, safe haven surrenders
must be done face-to-face andparents are given an optional
questionnaire on medical history.
Billy (15:57):
We have the world's smartest scientists, we have
some of the most opulentcultural centers and we're going
to put a kid in a box and closethe box.
And that's a growing movement.
Meg (16:08):
Because these relinquishments are anonymous,
they typically lead to closedadoptions.
Birth parents are unable toselect the parents and adoptees
are left with little to noinformation about their family
of origin or medical history.
Hmm, r Hanlon of the NationalCouncil for Adoption pointed to
research showing that, over thelong term, birth parents feel
(16:30):
more satisfied about giving uptheir children if biological and
adoptive families maintain arelationship.
How do the children feel, Iwonder?
Billy (16:38):
Oh, they don't matter.
I mean, we've already.
We've already figured out thatthey're just.
hey're little ornaments to beput on a baby box tree.
You know what I mean?
Meg (16:46):
Yeah.
Billy (16:47):
Who's going to pick this one out?
It's a baby.
Oh, sorry, I was talking tomyself.
Yeah, there's nobody here topick up these kids.
Okay, cool, o, like what dothey do?
Do they have a Facebook?
Do they have a baby boxFacebook group where it's just
like take a look at this littlepupper doodle.
(17:08):
We call him Charlie, but youcan name him whatever.
Come on down to the firehouse,just pick up a kid.
Do you have an extra 80 gram?
We don't know if it has itsshot.
Here at Religious Company, wevalue life and what we want most
importantly is to give you thechance of having life now, as
you know, there are an equal anumber of people who are looking
(17:32):
to adopt because biologicallythey can't have children, as
there are two unwanted children.
Don't check that source.
So everything is provided for,everything works out and
everybody lives happily everafter.
Excuse me, I have a fewfollow-up questions.
No, thank you.
Just one follow-up question,not today.
Meg (17:55):
How about I send you the list of questions?
Will
Billy (17:57):
you get back to m Actually really busy trying to
find parents for these children.
Meg (18:03):
But I thought you said the parents were ready and willing.
Billy (18:06):
What's that now?
Oh my gosh, it's time to pray.
Goodbye everybody.
Se, these kids will learn toread.
Meg (18:13):
So how many baby boxes do you got there?
Billy (18:15):
h let me do a little Google right there.
ere let's see how many babyboxes are in Chicago.
The first thing is a news storythat just said somebody placed
six babies in a baby box.
Meg (18:28):
Oh dear.
Billy (18:28):
hat seems like too many.
All right, let's see.
In Chicago proper we arelooking.
Sorry, I'm scrolling throughthe 115 in Indiana.
Meg (18:38):
Oh dear.
Billy (18:39):
o no, that's just what the box number is.
Sorry, that's sorry, that wasmisrepresentative.
Meg (18:43):
Oh, the boxes are numbered.
Billy (18:44):
eah, so let's see here.
Meg (18:46):
If you go to one and it's full, they tell you the next
number, so you know where to go.
Billy (18:50):
Right, Exactly If Sharerville, Indiana, box 66 is
full, go down to Huntington.
According to BB, Stop it.
The website's literally SHBB,which just say it as it is Shh
BB, Shh.
Let's get you in that box.
Baby Shh BB, Baby Shh BB.
(19:12):
There is no location inIllinois, let alone Chicago, but
that's just according to thisone place.
I'm going to go sit in a babybox.
I don't care if the police getcalled.
I'm going to go sit in a babybo.
I don't care if the police getcalled.
I'm going to go sit in thatbassine and be like is this okay
?
.
Okay, limb in with a pacifierand a bonnet.
Meg (19:34):
We're just doing research, doing research.
Billy (19:35):
Hey, it's just a prank, bro, it's just a social
experiment.
Meg (19:37):
I was reading one article and some parents were leaving
comments like is there one thatfits a teenager?
Billy (19:42):
Brilliant.
Meg (19:43):
Things like that.
And honestly, I just had tolaugh at that, because parenting
teenagers, I know, is hard,because I was a horrible person
when I was a teenager.
Billy (19:54):
Yeah, I was pretty rough too.
I like the idea, though, thatthe child in question, the
teenager in question, is anadoptee and also read that
comment andn kit'\s exactly.
It's their parents who said it.
I'm never going back in the box.
Don't you shut baby me, becausyou imagine you open up the box.
It's like is the baby cryingtoo much?
Here's a little baby Benadryl.
Crush it up, put it in thebottle.
Meg (20:20):
The Adoption Citizenship Act.
Hopefully that is somethingthat can pass, because every
adoptee to America should haveAmerican citizenship.
Billy (20:28):
Without a doubt, they're not making a choice
Meg (20:31):
ight
Billy (20:31):
, hey're being born, they're being put in a baby box
in some cases, and then findingthemselves, after multiple
traumas, in the hands of a newfamily with uncertain futures
Meg (20:44):
I guess you can say o to have then some of these people
get deported back to their homecountries, to places that they
don't know, where they don'tknow anyone, where they don't
speak the language, and they mayhave families back here with
like husbands or wives withchildren.
It's absolutely appalling.
Billy (21:06):
It's unconscionable for a civilized society.
I don't know if you know this,but America is pretty big land,
wise, and people keep buildingplaces to live higher and higher
.
We've got a lot of ceilingbefore we start like suffocating
because there's no air.
So we have the capabilities ofbeing decent and I just don't
understand where the roadblockis.
(21:27):
How is this not a given?
Parties are tying it to theidea that all quote unquote
illegals are bad?
Meg (21:34):
It is in a bill currently, but at this time a lot of people
are like, oh no, but that allgot fixed in 2000.
And for most people it did.
All new international adopteesthey do become citizens.
All adoptees that were underthe age of 18 when this passed
they became citizens.
But anyone that was over theage of 18 on that date that this
(21:56):
went into effect did notautomatically become citizens.
So there's this gap of peoplethat we need to help.
Senators and representativeshave signed on to co-sign, but
there are many that haven't andunfortunately I check often and
all of them in Connecticut arenot co-signers.
Billy (22:17):
Murphy's not a co-signer?
Meg (22:20):
Rosa DeLauro, who is all about family.
Like it's appalling to me.
Billy (22:27):
So call your representatives everybody.
Meg (22:28):
Yeah, please.
Billy (22:30):
Come on.
Hey, could you do your job andbe people?
BI'm lazy.
No, yeah, okay, wow.
Meg (22:36):
You can't make a scene about kids being in cages, you
can't make a scene aboutuniversal child care, but then
send these people, who had nochoice but to come here, back to
their home country where theyknow nobody, where they can't
speak the language.
Billy (22:51):
So are these people that were adopted into families?
Really?
So?
t's not just people who werejust left in the system or
somehow got back into the system.
Meg (23:00):
All of them would have been adopted into families, which is
how they got over here and thenthey stayed with that family.
Maybe the family decided theydidn't want to continue taking
care of the child and put themin the system here in the States
.
It all depends, but they just,for whatever reason, the
families did not get themcitizenship.
It's really clos
Billy (23:20):
Oh my God, let's get that passed.
That's an easy one.
Meg (23:23):
hould be.
Billy (23:24):
That's the easiest one.
Don't attach it to anything,just do it.
Meg (23:28):
Yeah Well, it's failed many times.
Billy (23:38):
Well, it's just crazy too .
There's like a friend of minewho I don't know if this person
was put into a baby box.
I do know the person is in jailfor reasons that people go to
jail for.
I know that they were abusive.
I never met the person, but thepeople I know adopted them from
seeing them on TV.
Meg (23:57):
Wait, what?
Billy (23:58):
Iaccess things.
But they were just like, hey,you know how some people need a
puppy.
What about taking a kid?
Look at this one here.
This little dander is playing alittle bit of the piano and
don't you just want to bring himinto your home.
And my friend's family said,yeah, let's do it.
And-
Meg (24:12):
hat?
Billy (24:12):
Yeah, this is a thing that happened.
Meg (24:14):
In Connecticut?
Billy (24:15):
in the Northeast.
It was like 30 years ago now, Iguess.
Like I remember hearing thestory that, yeah, the reason
that they were brought into ourfamily is because we saw them on
TV.
Family unit was strong, butthey wanted to help.
This was a call on TV to adoptsome kids.
Look at how talented Dance.
If you don't play the pianogood enough, no one will ever
(24:36):
love you.
Could you imagine a child that'scoming from the system that is
then thrust in front of a cameracrew, maybe a live studio
audience with who knows on amicrophone and being like here's
your shot, bud, don't mess itup.
Meg (24:50):
No
Billy (24:51):
and things did not
Meg (24:52):
turn
Billy (24:53):
t did not end well.
There's so much going backwards.
Well, I guess it's not goingbackwards, it's just going in a
worse direction because thereare still some bastions of hope.
But I mean, if the baby box movement is getting going.
.
.
as we wrap up this season, I'mworried that with all the new
(25:20):
unwanted kids that'll be put inbaby boxes, there's going to be
a rise of cults.
Like just imagine you have,from the moment you're born,
being told you would not be hereif it wasn't for us, in the
most toxic way, if not for us.
And I know that there's somefamilies that probably have
expressed that sentiment totheir child.
(25:42):
I feel, fortunate enough, thatI haven't really met too many
personal friends who are adopted, who families have literally
put that energy out there.
But oh my gosh, you get otherstuff too.
You get the chosen, sort of notfantasy, but you're sort of
ingrained that you've beenchosen to be where you are
Meg (26:02):
Right
Billy (26:02):
nd so you are indebted to that community because
otherwise you would have.
Meg (26:07):
Oh gosh, is that why I moved back here?
Billy (26:09):
To Connecticut, to your hometown.
I think you're just a gluttonfor punishment.
Meg (26:14):
I probably am.
Or I just am so messed up fromall of my trauma and I could
have this house.
So I did, because my trackrecord of working is not very
good, so my source of incomecomes and goes.
Billy (26:29):
That's fair.
I mean stability first right.
Meg (26:32):
Yeah, and I don't have that .
My brain can't take that.
Billy (26:35):
Right, no, obviously, if you can take care of shelter,
yeah, you'll deal with all thecrap that comes with it.
I think that you had theopportunity to get a house and
you have a family, so obviouslyyou're going to take the house.
Meg (26:45):
Yeah, the most basic is survival food, water, shelter.
That's where I am.
Billy (26:50):
I mean come on, You're doing a podcast.
Truly, you're a little bitbeyond the very basics.
We're finishing up season one,all right, so I need food,
shelter, water.
Podcast we're doing Maslow'sPlus.
Meg (27:07):
Psychological needs.
It's air check, Water check,Food check, Shelter check, Sleep
.
Billy (27:17):
You should consider it.
Meg (27:18):
Clothing check Reproduction .
Okay, I've done that.
Billy (27:22):
Yeah, you took care of that.
You got that out of the way.
Meg (27:24):
Okay, so I guess I'm in, maybe I'm in level two Personal
security.
What does that mean?
Billy (27:32):
How about employment?
Meg (27:34):
Employment's the second one Personal security, employment
Resources, resources of what?
Billy (27:39):
If you don't understand the definition of resources, you
probably need to get some moreresources.
Meg (27:44):
Health oh boy.
Billy (27:46):
ow's that going?
Meg (27:48):
And property.
Billy (27:49):
Hey, you got property right.
Meg (27:52):
I do, I do.
Billy (27:53):
You're in number two, look at you.
Meg (27:54):
Oh gosh, number three.
I'm not going to get there ever.
Billy (27:58):
All right, what do we got in number three.
Meg (28:04):
Friendship
Billy (28:04):
, Uh-huh.
Meg (28:05):
ntimacy
Billy (28:05):
, oh no, kay.
Meg (28:05):
Family.
Billy (28:06):
ou got one of those.
Meg (28:07):
I have a child.
Billy (28:09):
Yeah, that's kind of like a family.
Meg (28:11):
And sense of connection hat one is called love and
belonging.
Billy (28:14):
Hey, one out of four.
Meg (28:24):
Oh gosh.
Then there's esteem andself-actualization are the last
two levels up.
Billy (28:26):
Let's
Meg (28:26):
see do you have respect or myself or do other people have
respect for me?
Billy (28:29):
r maybe just respect for your elders.
Maybe that's what it means.
If you have to think about it,the answer is no.
So how about?
How about self-esteem?
Do you listen to the offspringsong, self-esteem?
Do you listen to the Offspringsong, self-estee
Meg (28:41):
and still say yeah, eah.
Billy (28:42):
Yep, all right, okay, cross that off the list.
How about status within yourcommunity?
How's that going?
Meg (28:48):
That's an issue.
Billy (28:50):
All right.
Status and recognition.
I acknowledge you.
You put this podcast togetherwith a plomb and vigor, so I
recognize, and you're also asingle mother that is also
trying to change the world, soyou got recognition on that and
this podcast will help with thata lot.
Meg (29:04):
Thank you
Billy (29:05):
, elcome, oof Strength though.
Meg (29:08):
Strength of what?
Billy (29:10):
I don't know how much can you bench?
Meg (29:16):
I'd have to go to a gym first.
Billy (29:18):
, kay.
All right.
All right, have you heard ofthe term push up?
Meg (29:21):
What.
Billy (29:22):
ave you heard of the term push up?
Meg (29:23):
What.
Billy (29:24):
I mean?
e can just fudge that a littlebit.
Let me just fudge that on theform real quick.
Okay, very good.
Freedom you want to move butyou can't?
Yeah, all right, thenself-actualization.
Who knows what that means?
Anybody?
Like share and subscribe,comments and deception.
hat that means Desire to becomethe most one can be.
Meg (29:46):
I have that desire.
Billy (29:47):
yes, oh well, you have, oh man, I think Maze kind of
copped out at the end.
I think everybody was likegetting progressively more
depressed watching this pyramidbe built and he's like as long
as you have the desire, you're afull person, we'll just give
you that.
Okay, I guess things are allright.
Meg (30:08):
Where do you think you fall on that pyramid?
Which level?
I'm in
Billy (30:12):
, clearl I would say that essentially every single one of
those I feel comfortable withsaying that I have.
You know, with the world goingcrazy, I still feel very
fortunate and thankful on amicro level for my community,
for my marriage, for my family.
And while I don't have anygrand aspirations of changing
(30:32):
the world necessarily, currentlyI feel that which I'm aspiring
to currently I still have thefreedom to do.
It's just that I keep checkingin with the rest of the world
and going, oh man, seriously,that's the direction we're going
in.
All right, I think theenvironment of Chicago I can't
speak highly enough about thecity Like Chicago itself is a
cult, Like there's no other city, I believe, in the entire
(30:54):
country that is in love withitself as much as Chicago love
with itself.
Meg (31:06):
as much as Chicag I think it would be interesting to talk
to some birth parents.
Definitely, some of thesepeople bother me.
Billy (31:10):
Itell.
I
Meg (31:10):
tel Not Brad and Angelina, though
Billy (31:13):
, eah, you guys are doing great Once again.
We can't wait to have you guyson the show.
Yeah, we're booking for nextseason.
I think we can squeeze you in.
Meg (31:19):
Yeah, we can work around our filming schedule because we
are both actors again
Billy (31:24):
Still actors, guys, still actors looking for work.
I'm sorry, I could have just, Ireally could have just said
actors.
It's a little redundant to saylooking for work, right.
Meg (31:37):
We love you.
If you're looking to adopt twoothers.
Billy (31:46):
Yeah, listen, that's for next season.
Adult adoption that's ourlittle teaser for next season.
You guys want to hear about ourviews on adult adoption.
Come on back.
We got them.
Well, we don't have adultadoptees, but we have opinions.
Meg (31:55):
It has been a pleasure to do this season with you.
It has been a pleasure to dothis season with yo
Billy (32:00):
It has been a pleasure to do this season with you as well
.
Meg (32:02):
Very happy we did this, looking forward to coming back
and doing this all over againfor season two.
Billy (32:10):
Same.
Meg (32:10):
nd I hope all of you decide to come back with us and hear a
little more about our storiesand our thoughts and our
opinions.
And we know that the things wesay may not be things that you
necessarily agree with, and it'sokay, because all of us have
had different experiences and wecan all have different ideas,
(32:30):
as long as we all respect eachother.
Billy (32:32):
Absolutely.
See you later guys.
Meg (32:37):
If you liked this episode of the Adopt Twins, I urge you
to pull over if you're driving,or stop what you're doing and
take one minute to take out yourphone and text someone you know
that you think would also likethe Adop Twins.
Send them a text that says hey,I've been listening to this
podcast and I think you'd likeit.
Let me know what you think andsend them a link to the show.
(32:59):
It Let me know what you thinkand send them a link to the show
.
Word of mouth is the best wayto spread the hilarity of the
adopt twins, so stop gatekeepingus and let someone else know
We'll catch y'all soon.
Hi, this is Meg.
Billy (00:21):
And this is Billy.
Meg (00:22):
And we are.
Billy (00:23):
The Adopt Twins.
Meg (00:27):
Meg and this is Billy, and we are the Adopt Twin Welcome to
a podcast from two adoptees whoare navigating life loss,
moving on and growing up.
Billy (00:32):
For our adopted friends we hope to bring you a familiar
point of view and for ourfriends who aren't welcome to
the complicated jungle of how weget on.
Meg (00:46):
Thi is our final episode of our first season.
Billy (00:48):
ey, it's taken time and it's took a lot of introspection
and a lot of tears, but a lotof joy, a lot of laughs, but
we're here we are.
Meg (00:58):
e decided that we will end each season with an episode
about how we feel about adoptionat this time, because, as we
grow, as we learn, as we talk toall of you, as things change in
the world, our feelings willchange, because the world is
fluid.
So I think it's a good idea tocheck in with each other, and
(01:20):
hopefully with you all throughthe comments, about how we feel
about adoption at this time inour lives.
Billy (01:25):
Yeah.
Meg (01:31):
Some adoptees have had really bad experiences with
their adoptive families
Billy (01:35):
Right
Meg (01:36):
nd they don't feel like those are their real parents
because it's been such a badexperience for them.
Another adoptee says that no,she's wrong, they are real
parents.
I can see where they could gettriggered by that.
Billy (01:51):
Yeah, I could see that I mean when I bring up that I'm
adopted, eventually at somepoint in a conversation, people
have a hard time justreferencing my parents as my
parents.
I don't know if you'veexperienced that.
Meg (02:03):
Oh yeah
Billy (02:03):
, hey're just like so you're, you're fake pet or
you're what do you call thepeople you grew up with?
It's like they're my parents.
It was like, well, what aboutthe?
It wa like the other.
I'm like I don't know the otherpeople.
So they're biological family, Iguess, I could say, but I don't
know them.
So my parents are my parents.
That's just flat out straightup for me.
Somebody who's my age, who wasraised from their biological
(02:24):
parents, and how my familyraised me.
Meg (02:26):
I mean, I feel like my adoptive parents didn't raise me
differently.
I don't know, to be honest, Idon't think they did, but I do
consider them my adoptiveparents.
That may be because I'mtransracial.
So once I realized that Iwasn't white, which at some
point in my life, I don't knowwhy I just always considered
(02:48):
myself white.
Obviously, I knew that I wasfrom Korea, which is an Asian
country and everything, but itwas just so ingrained in me, the
whole whiteness, that I justdidn't consider myself anything
but white.
Billy (03:00):
How long was that?
Meg (03:01):
Oh, probably until.
Probably until about 2020.
Billy (03:05):
Gotcha
Meg (03:05):
, eah.
So it really hit me duringCOVID when the racism got really
bad again.
I mean, I've always facedracism, but it got a lot worse
during 2020.
Billy (03:19):
Yeah, and it's still continuing to.
Meg (03:21):
I think a big part of why I started recognizing and
claiming my Asian heritage isbecause I have a child now,
Billy (03:29):
ight
Meg (03:30):
and he is half Korean and it's something that he's going
to face, and so I think that'swhat kind of woke me up to it
when the racism kicked up reallybad in 2020.
Billy (03:41):
Yeah.
Does he know that there'sprobable adversity he's going to
face at this point in his lifeor?
Meg (03:47):
Yeah, I don't hide things from him.
I try not to say it in a scaryway and in a way that's over his
head.
But I was having a really,really difficult time at one
point and I was really upset alot and I was taking it out on
everybody around me, which he'saround me a lot, and I felt
really, really bad.
So I told him.
I said hey, kiddo, I want totell you why I've been so upset.
(04:09):
And I said there are somepeople who are making really bad
choices and hurting Asian women.
So it has me really, reallyscared.
Do you know why?
And he said well, you're Asian.
And I said that's right, I am.
And he said and he said well,you're Asian, and I said that's
right, I am.
And he said and you're a woman?
And I said that's right, I am.
So that's why I've been really,really scared, and so I don't
(04:31):
tell him that they're killingpeople.
Billy (04:33):
He understands that it's something you are affected by
and people are doing bad things,right.
And then the news gaslights you, right, which is even more
infuriating.
Well, you know, it could havebeen a personal thing.
What are you talking about?
No, some people just like toshoot sometimes.
I'm still never going toforgive the blatant, malicious,
(04:58):
feigned ignorance of some of theSupreme Court justices for
having justification of oh,everything will be all right,
just adopt Facebook handed overmessenger records in Nebraska to
the police to prove that ateenager and their mother were
chatting and then going to getan abortion.
Meg (05:17):
So what kind of world are we living in right now?
Billy (05:21):
How are you not screaming at the top of your lungs, being
like, hey, guess what?
This is horrifying.
Meg (05:25):
Yeah, I am so scared for my child to grow up in this world
right now.
Billy (05:32):
Yeah, I mean, I think every parent is terrified of
their child to grow up in everytime period, but it just seems
that there are definitely someaspects of the trajectory we
were going in which is just whatare we doing, guys?
Meg (05:45):
I know what's the reason?
Billy (05:46):
Did the populace really make the rich that angry that
they're just like, oh, got totighten up this leash because we
can't have you running out intothe road, or we know what's
good for you, or yada, yada,yada.
Meg (05:57):
I mean I honestly would, if I was not a mother, work on
trying to move out of thiscountry.
And If I was not a mother, workon trying to move out of this
country, and honestly, if Ididn't have to deal with his
father, I would, even with mychild, try to work on moving out
of this country.
But just trying to do that withhis father would just be such
such a thing.
(06:17):
So, but I always want to dowhat's best for my child and I
honestly feel like best for mychild right now is to not have
them grow up in this country,and that is a terrible thing.
Billy (06:29):
But it doesn't make it any less true.
That's where we are listeners.
At the end of season one, megwould love to flee the country.
That's what we were all lookingforward to as we graduated high
school and pledged allegianceto the flag.
They're like ah, everything'sgoing to be great, smash cut.
I can't leave, but for reasonsthat are totally justifiable, I
(06:51):
need to get out of here with myfamily.
Meg (06:55):
It is the handmaid's tale.
Billy (06:57):
It's the frog that is slowly boiling in water.
They just keep turning up thetemperature, little by little.
Meg (07:12):
The baby boxes.
So, that is something that'sbeen going on in Korea for quite
some time ow.
They've passed a law in Koreathat the mothers have to
register the child on theirfamily registry so that the
children can get information andthey can't be left, like me,
with nothing, which isabsolutely amazing that that got
(07:33):
passed.
Adoptees went and reallyadvocated for that in Korea, so
it's a very, very amazing thing.
But there is a church who hasthis baby box and they offer a
place to put the information,but the mother or whoever leaves
the child doesn't have to leaveinformation and it's kind of
(07:53):
this, this gray area, and it'sstill going on and hasn't been
shut down yet.
But apparently I've read thatbaby boxes are starting to pop
up in the US.
Billy (08:04):
What
Meg (08:05):
, eah, yeah.
Billy (08:07):
Oh, that's going to keep happening.
Oh man, of course that's goingto keep happening.
You take away people's rightsto choose.
Well, it's just going to createa more influx of unwanted oh my
yeah.
Yeah
Meg (08:18):
, ost-roe conservatives promote way to give up newborns.
The havens can be boxes whichallow parents to avoid speaking
to anyone or even being seenwhen surrendering their babies.
Billy (08:28):
So now I'm even more mad.
Are you kidding me?
Meg (08:31):
The safe haven baby box at a firehouse in Carmel, indiana,
looked like a library book drop.
It had been available for threeyears for anyone who wanted to
surrender a baby anonymously.
No one had ever used it, though, until early April when its
alarm went off.
Victor Andres, a firefighter,opened the box and found, to his
disbelief, a newborn boywrapped in towels.
(08:51):
This article was from August 6,2022, and it was in the New
York Times.
The discovery made the local TVnews, which praised the courage
of the mother, calling it atime for celebration.
Later that month, mr Andrespulled another newborn, a girl
from the box.
In May, a third baby appeared.
(09:12):
By summer, three more infantswere left at the baby box
locations throughout the state.
The baby boxes are part of theSafe Haven movement, which has
long been closely tied toanti-abortion activism.
Safe Havens offer desperatemothers a way to surrender their
newborn babies anonymously foradoption, and advocates say
avoid hurting, abandoning oreven killing them.
The havens can be boxes whichallow parents to avoid speaking
(09:33):
to anyone or even being seenwhen surrendering their babies.
More traditionally, the havensare locations such as hospitals
and fire stations, where staffmembers are trained to accept a
face-to-face handoff from aparent in crisis.
All 50 states have safe havenlaws meant to protect
surrendering mothers fromcriminal charges.
The first, known as the BabyMoses Law, was passed in Texas
(09:54):
in 1999 after a number of womenabandoned infants in trash cans
and dumpsters.
But what became as a way toprevent the most extreme cases
of child abuse has become abroader phenomenon, supported
especially among the religiousright.
Billy (10:09):
Let's get them in.
We got numbers dwindling.
How can we get some more peopleinto parish?
Meg (10:13):
The thing is that the top adoption agencies in the US, I
believe, if I remember correctlyfrom another article I read are
tied to religious organizationsand they're not non-profit.
Billy (10:25):
Right, they've got a fee there.
Meg (10:27):
Over the past five years, more than 12 states have passed
laws allowing baby boxes orexpanding safe haven options in
other ways.
Billy (10:34):
I feel like there's a way that if a mother had a chance
to choose earlier regarding thefuture of a potential life,
maybe we wouldn't be needingbaby boxes as much.
I mean, it might be a relic ofa bygone age to give somebody
(10:54):
that choice.
I'm going to have to go toIndiana and get a picture next
to a baby box.
Meg (11:02):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I guess it's better than being
left just on the street behind amarketplace.
Billy (11:08):
Sure, maybe I don't know.
Meg (11:11):
I guess, as long as somebody's making sure to come
and check the box, because atleast at the marketplace maybe
someone would give me food.
Billy (11:23):
What if the buzzer stops working?
What if the buzzer stopsworking.
What if the buzzer stops?
Meg (11:26):
Wbatteries in the buzzer.
Billy (11:28):
h boy, it was a hot one.
Sorry, baby, unfortunately itdidn't make it this time, but
we'll make sure to put thedouble a's back in the buzzer.
Oh my god.
Meg (11:38):
During oral arguments in the case Dobbs v Jackson Women's
Health Organization, justiceAmy Coney Barrett suggested that
safe haven laws offered analternative to abortion by
allowing women to avoid theburdens of parenting.
In the court's decision,justice Samuel Alito Jr cited
safe haven laws as a moderndevelopment.
Billy (12:00):
Modern development.
ou say why are we listening toany of these people?
Meg (12:05):
For many experts in adoption and women's health,
safe havens are hardly.
Oh my no, I don't know thisword.
P-a-n-a-c-e -A.
English is my second language.
Billy (12:18):
Oh, panacea, the solution or remedy for all difficulties
and diseases.
You mean, you know, like snakeoil.
It's named after the Greekgoddess of universal remedy.
Panacea is any supposed remedythat is claimed to cure all
diseases and prolong lifeindefinitely.
Meg (12:40):
Okay, so let's try using it in a sentence.
But for many experts inadoption and women's health,
safe havens are hardly a panacea.
To them, a safe haven surrenderis a sign that a woman fell
through the cracks of existingsystems.
Billy (12:54):
Fund the systems.
Meg (12:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Billy (12:57):
h my god.
Meg (12:58):
They may have concealed their pregnancies and given
birth without prenatal care, orthey may suffer from domestic
violence, drug addiction,homelessness or mental illness.
You cannot just put Band-Aidsover the problems.
You need to go to the rootcauses and fix the root causes.
Billy (13:15):
Can't just put a baby box up everywhere and then blame
the system.
So my question is what happensto the kids after this?
They get put in a baby box.
What happens?
Meg (13:23):
The next paragraph says the adoptions themselves could also
be problematic, with womenpotentially unaware that they
are terminating paternal rightsand children left with little
information about their origins.
Billy (13:36):
That's not going to come back and send somebody to the
psych ward in middle school oranything to the psych ward in
middle school or anything.
Also, that's not going to causea severe amount of resentment.
I mean even like, if you're thebest adoptive parents and
everything was right, you learnof a trauma that hard.
(13:56):
There's no coming back Lke youcan be, like, well, maybe a
little bit of love will fix you.
And then as a child you wouldsay, well, maybe a little bit of
go F yourself is what youdeserve, what the world deserves
.
I want to watch it burn, butI'll probably just inflict the
damage onto myself because I amnot wanted here Apparently.
(14:16):
Okay, so that's cool.
You said you want to leave thiscountry.
Yeah, I'm not quite sure ifthey'll let you when they close
the borders.
Meg (14:29):
Go There's more than 100 baby boxes across the country.
Billy (14:33):
God.
Meg (14:34):
Ms Kelsey is a former medic and firefighter and an adoptee
who says she was abandoned atbirth by her teenage mother, who
had been raped.
She first encountered a babysafe a concept dating back to
medieval Europe on a 2013 tripto a church in Cape Town, south
Africa, where she was on apro-abstinence speaking tour.
(14:55):
She returned home to Indiana tofind a non-profit Safe Haven
Baby Boxes and installed herfirst baby box in 2016.
At Safe Haven Baby Boxes andinstalled her first baby box in
201 To use one of Ms Kelsey'sboxes, a parent pulls open a
metal drawer to reveal atemperature-controlled hospital
bassinet.
Once the baby is inside and thedrawer is closed, it locks
automatically.
The parent cannot reopen it, analarm is triggered and the
(15:17):
facility's staff member canaccess the bassinet.
The box also sends out a 911call.
21 babies have been left in thebox since 2017.
The average amount of time achild is inside the box is less
than two minutes.
Billy (15:35):
Yeah, that's enough.
That's enough to cause allkinds of long-lasting effects
psychologically.
Oh my God.
Meg (15:43):
Oh, she's raised money to put up dozens of billboards
advertising and predicted thatwithin five years her boxes
would be in all 50 states.
In California, unlike inIndiana, safe haven surrenders
must be done face-to-face andparents are given an optional
questionnaire on medical history.
Billy (15:57):
We have the world's smartest scientists, we have
some of the most opulentcultural centers and we're going
to put a kid in a box and closethe box.
And that's a growing movement.
Meg (16:08):
Because these relinquishments are anonymous,
they typically lead to closedadoptions.
Birth parents are unable toselect the parents and adoptees
are left with little to noinformation about their family
of origin or medical history.
Hmm, r Hanlon of the NationalCouncil for Adoption pointed to
research showing that, over thelong term, birth parents feel
(16:30):
more satisfied about giving uptheir children if biological and
adoptive families maintain arelationship.
How do the children feel, Iwonder?
Billy (16:38):
Oh, they don't matter.
I mean, we've already.
We've already figured out thatthey're just.
hey're little ornaments to beput on a baby box tree.
You know what I mean?
Meg (16:46):
Yeah.
Billy (16:47):
Who's going to pick this one out?
It's a baby.
Oh, sorry, I was talking tomyself.
Yeah, there's nobody here topick up these kids.
Okay, cool, o, like what dothey do?
Do they have a Facebook?
Do they have a baby boxFacebook group where it's just
like take a look at this littlepupper doodle.
(17:08):
We call him Charlie, but youcan name him whatever.
Come on down to the firehouse,just pick up a kid.
Do you have an extra 80 gram?
We don't know if it has itsshot.
Here at Religious Company, wevalue life and what we want most
importantly is to give you thechance of having life now, as
you know, there are an equal anumber of people who are looking
(17:32):
to adopt because biologicallythey can't have children, as
there are two unwanted children.
Don't check that source.
So everything is provided for,everything works out and
everybody lives happily everafter.
Excuse me, I have a fewfollow-up questions.
No, thank you.
Just one follow-up question,not today.
Meg (17:55):
How about I send you the list of questions?
Will
Billy (17:57):
you get back to m Actually really busy trying to
find parents for these children.
Meg (18:03):
But I thought you said the parents were ready and willing.
Billy (18:06):
What's that now?
Oh my gosh, it's time to pray.
Goodbye everybody.
Se, these kids will learn toread.
Meg (18:13):
So how many baby boxes do you got there?
Billy (18:15):
h let me do a little Google right there.
ere let's see how many babyboxes are in Chicago.
The first thing is a news storythat just said somebody placed
six babies in a baby box.
Meg (18:28):
Oh dear.
Billy (18:28):
hat seems like too many.
All right, let's see.
In Chicago proper we arelooking.
Sorry, I'm scrolling throughthe 115 in Indiana.
Meg (18:38):
Oh dear.
Billy (18:39):
o no, that's just what the box number is.
Sorry, that's sorry, that wasmisrepresentative.
Meg (18:43):
Oh, the boxes are numbered.
Billy (18:44):
eah, so let's see here.
Meg (18:46):
If you go to one and it's full, they tell you the next
number, so you know where to go.
Billy (18:50):
Right, Exactly If Sharerville, Indiana, box 66 is
full, go down to Huntington.
According to BB, Stop it.
The website's literally SHBB,which just say it as it is Shh
BB, Shh.
Let's get you in that box.
Baby Shh BB, Baby Shh BB.
(19:12):
There is no location inIllinois, let alone Chicago, but
that's just according to thisone place.
I'm going to go sit in a babybox.
I don't care if the police getcalled.
I'm going to go sit in a babybo.
I don't care if the police getcalled.
I'm going to go sit in thatbassine and be like is this okay
?
.
Okay, limb in with a pacifierand a bonnet.
Meg (19:34):
We're just doing research, doing research.
Billy (19:35):
Hey, it's just a prank, bro, it's just a social
experiment.
Meg (19:37):
I was reading one article and some parents were leaving
comments like is there one thatfits a teenager?
Billy (19:42):
Brilliant.
Meg (19:43):
Things like that.
And honestly, I just had tolaugh at that, because parenting
teenagers, I know, is hard,because I was a horrible person
when I was a teenager.
Billy (19:54):
Yeah, I was pretty rough too.
I like the idea, though, thatthe child in question, the
teenager in question, is anadoptee and also read that
comment andn kit'\s exactly.
It's their parents who said it.
I'm never going back in the box.
Don't you shut baby me, becausyou imagine you open up the box.
It's like is the baby cryingtoo much?
Here's a little baby Benadryl.
Crush it up, put it in thebottle.
Meg (20:20):
The Adoption Citizenship Act.
Hopefully that is somethingthat can pass, because every
adoptee to America should haveAmerican citizenship.
Billy (20:28):
Without a doubt, they're not making a choice
Meg (20:31):
ight
Billy (20:31):
, hey're being born, they're being put in a baby box
in some cases, and then findingthemselves, after multiple
traumas, in the hands of a newfamily with uncertain futures
Meg (20:44):
I guess you can say o to have then some of these people
get deported back to their homecountries, to places that they
don't know, where they don'tknow anyone, where they don't
speak the language, and they mayhave families back here with
like husbands or wives withchildren.
It's absolutely appalling.
Billy (21:06):
It's unconscionable for a civilized society.
I don't know if you know this,but America is pretty big land,
wise, and people keep buildingplaces to live higher and higher
.
We've got a lot of ceilingbefore we start like suffocating
because there's no air.
So we have the capabilities ofbeing decent and I just don't
understand where the roadblockis.
(21:27):
How is this not a given?
Parties are tying it to theidea that all quote unquote
illegals are bad?
Meg (21:34):
It is in a bill currently, but at this time a lot of people
are like, oh no, but that allgot fixed in 2000.
And for most people it did.
All new international adopteesthey do become citizens.
All adoptees that were underthe age of 18 when this passed
they became citizens.
But anyone that was over theage of 18 on that date that this
(21:56):
went into effect did notautomatically become citizens.
So there's this gap of peoplethat we need to help.
Senators and representativeshave signed on to co-sign, but
there are many that haven't andunfortunately I check often and
all of them in Connecticut arenot co-signers.
Billy (22:17):
Murphy's not a co-signer?
Meg (22:20):
Rosa DeLauro, who is all about family.
Like it's appalling to me.
Billy (22:27):
So call your representatives everybody.
Meg (22:28):
Yeah, please.
Billy (22:30):
Come on.
Hey, could you do your job andbe people?
BI'm lazy.
No, yeah, okay, wow.
Meg (22:36):
You can't make a scene about kids being in cages, you
can't make a scene aboutuniversal child care, but then
send these people, who had nochoice but to come here, back to
their home country where theyknow nobody, where they can't
speak the language.
Billy (22:51):
So are these people that were adopted into families?
Really?
So?
t's not just people who werejust left in the system or
somehow got back into the system.
Meg (23:00):
All of them would have been adopted into families, which is
how they got over here and thenthey stayed with that family.
Maybe the family decided theydidn't want to continue taking
care of the child and put themin the system here in the States
.
It all depends, but they just,for whatever reason, the
families did not get themcitizenship.
It's really clos
Billy (23:20):
Oh my God, let's get that passed.
That's an easy one.
Meg (23:23):
hould be.
Billy (23:24):
That's the easiest one.
Don't attach it to anything,just do it.
Meg (23:28):
Yeah Well, it's failed many times.
Billy (23:38):
Well, it's just crazy too .
There's like a friend of minewho I don't know if this person
was put into a baby box.
I do know the person is in jailfor reasons that people go to
jail for.
I know that they were abusive.
I never met the person, but thepeople I know adopted them from
seeing them on TV.
Meg (23:57):
Wait, what?
Billy (23:58):
Iaccess things.
But they were just like, hey,you know how some people need a
puppy.
What about taking a kid?
Look at this one here.
This little dander is playing alittle bit of the piano and
don't you just want to bring himinto your home.
And my friend's family said,yeah, let's do it.
And-
Meg (24:12):
hat?
Billy (24:12):
Yeah, this is a thing that happened.
Meg (24:14):
In Connecticut?
Billy (24:15):
in the Northeast.
It was like 30 years ago now, Iguess.
Like I remember hearing thestory that, yeah, the reason
that they were brought into ourfamily is because we saw them on
TV.
Family unit was strong, butthey wanted to help.
This was a call on TV to adoptsome kids.
Look at how talented Dance.
If you don't play the pianogood enough, no one will ever
(24:36):
love you.
Could you imagine a child that'scoming from the system that is
then thrust in front of a cameracrew, maybe a live studio
audience with who knows on amicrophone and being like here's
your shot, bud, don't mess itup.
Meg (24:50):
No
Billy (24:51):
and things did not
Meg (24:52):
turn
Billy (24:53):
t did not end well.
There's so much going backwards.
Well, I guess it's not goingbackwards, it's just going in a
worse direction because thereare still some bastions of hope.
But I mean, if the baby box movement is getting going.
.
.
as we wrap up this season, I'mworried that with all the new
(25:20):
unwanted kids that'll be put inbaby boxes, there's going to be
a rise of cults.
Like just imagine you have,from the moment you're born,
being told you would not be hereif it wasn't for us, in the
most toxic way, if not for us.
And I know that there's somefamilies that probably have
expressed that sentiment totheir child.
(25:42):
I feel, fortunate enough, thatI haven't really met too many
personal friends who are adopted, who families have literally
put that energy out there.
But oh my gosh, you get otherstuff too.
You get the chosen, sort of notfantasy, but you're sort of
ingrained that you've beenchosen to be where you are
Meg (26:02):
Right
Billy (26:02):
nd so you are indebted to that community because
otherwise you would have.
Meg (26:07):
Oh gosh, is that why I moved back here?
Billy (26:09):
To Connecticut, to your hometown.
I think you're just a gluttonfor punishment.
Meg (26:14):
I probably am.
Or I just am so messed up fromall of my trauma and I could
have this house.
So I did, because my trackrecord of working is not very
good, so my source of incomecomes and goes.
Billy (26:29):
That's fair.
I mean stability first right.
Meg (26:32):
Yeah, and I don't have that .
My brain can't take that.
Billy (26:35):
Right, no, obviously, if you can take care of shelter,
yeah, you'll deal with all thecrap that comes with it.
I think that you had theopportunity to get a house and
you have a family, so obviouslyyou're going to take the house.
Meg (26:45):
Yeah, the most basic is survival food, water, shelter.
That's where I am.
Billy (26:50):
I mean come on, You're doing a podcast.
Truly, you're a little bitbeyond the very basics.
We're finishing up season one,all right, so I need food,
shelter, water.
Podcast we're doing Maslow'sPlus.
Meg (27:07):
Psychological needs.
It's air check, Water check,Food check, Shelter check, Sleep
.
Billy (27:17):
You should consider it.
Meg (27:18):
Clothing check Reproduction .
Okay, I've done that.
Billy (27:22):
Yeah, you took care of that.
You got that out of the way.
Meg (27:24):
Okay, so I guess I'm in, maybe I'm in level two Personal
security.
What does that mean?
Billy (27:32):
How about employment?
Meg (27:34):
Employment's the second one Personal security, employment
Resources, resources of what?
Billy (27:39):
If you don't understand the definition of resources, you
probably need to get some moreresources.
Meg (27:44):
Health oh boy.
Billy (27:46):
ow's that going?
Meg (27:48):
And property.
Billy (27:49):
Hey, you got property right.
Meg (27:52):
I do, I do.
Billy (27:53):
You're in number two, look at you.
Meg (27:54):
Oh gosh, number three.
I'm not going to get there ever.
Billy (27:58):
All right, what do we got in number three.
Meg (28:04):
Friendship
Billy (28:04):
, Uh-huh.
Meg (28:05):
ntimacy
Billy (28:05):
, oh no, kay.
Meg (28:05):
Family.
Billy (28:06):
ou got one of those.
Meg (28:07):
I have a child.
Billy (28:09):
Yeah, that's kind of like a family.
Meg (28:11):
And sense of connection hat one is called love and
belonging.
Billy (28:14):
Hey, one out of four.
Meg (28:24):
Oh gosh.
Then there's esteem andself-actualization are the last
two levels up.
Billy (28:26):
Let's
Meg (28:26):
see do you have respect or myself or do other people have
respect for me?
Billy (28:29):
r maybe just respect for your elders.
Maybe that's what it means.
If you have to think about it,the answer is no.
So how about?
How about self-esteem?
Do you listen to the offspringsong, self-esteem?
Do you listen to the Offspringsong, self-estee
Meg (28:41):
and still say yeah, eah.
Billy (28:42):
Yep, all right, okay, cross that off the list.
How about status within yourcommunity?
How's that going?
Meg (28:48):
That's an issue.
Billy (28:50):
All right.
Status and recognition.
I acknowledge you.
You put this podcast togetherwith a plomb and vigor, so I
recognize, and you're also asingle mother that is also
trying to change the world, soyou got recognition on that and
this podcast will help with thata lot.
Meg (29:04):
Thank you
Billy (29:05):
, elcome, oof Strength though.
Meg (29:08):
Strength of what?
Billy (29:10):
I don't know how much can you bench?
Meg (29:16):
I'd have to go to a gym first.
Billy (29:18):
, kay.
All right.
All right, have you heard ofthe term push up?
Meg (29:21):
What.
Billy (29:22):
ave you heard of the term push up?
Meg (29:23):
What.
Billy (29:24):
I mean?
e can just fudge that a littlebit.
Let me just fudge that on theform real quick.
Okay, very good.
Freedom you want to move butyou can't?
Yeah, all right, thenself-actualization.
Who knows what that means?
Anybody?
Like share and subscribe,comments and deception.
hat that means Desire to becomethe most one can be.
Meg (29:46):
I have that desire.
Billy (29:47):
yes, oh well, you have, oh man, I think Maze kind of
copped out at the end.
I think everybody was likegetting progressively more
depressed watching this pyramidbe built and he's like as long
as you have the desire, you're afull person, we'll just give
you that.
Okay, I guess things are allright.
Meg (30:08):
Where do you think you fall on that pyramid?
Which level?
I'm in
Billy (30:12):
, clearl I would say that essentially every single one of
those I feel comfortable withsaying that I have.
You know, with the world goingcrazy, I still feel very
fortunate and thankful on amicro level for my community,
for my marriage, for my family.
And while I don't have anygrand aspirations of changing
(30:32):
the world necessarily, currentlyI feel that which I'm aspiring
to currently I still have thefreedom to do.
It's just that I keep checkingin with the rest of the world
and going, oh man, seriously,that's the direction we're going
in.
All right, I think theenvironment of Chicago I can't
speak highly enough about thecity Like Chicago itself is a
cult, Like there's no other city, I believe, in the entire
(30:54):
country that is in love withitself as much as Chicago love
with itself.
Meg (31:06):
as much as Chicag I think it would be interesting to talk
to some birth parents.
Definitely, some of thesepeople bother me.
Billy (31:10):
Itell.
I
Meg (31:10):
tel Not Brad and Angelina, though
Billy (31:13):
, eah, you guys are doing great Once again.
We can't wait to have you guyson the show.
Yeah, we're booking for nextseason.
I think we can squeeze you in.
Meg (31:19):
Yeah, we can work around our filming schedule because we
are both actors again
Billy (31:24):
Still actors, guys, still actors looking for work.
I'm sorry, I could have just, Ireally could have just said
actors.
It's a little redundant to saylooking for work, right.
Meg (31:37):
We love you.
If you're looking to adopt twoothers.
Billy (31:46):
Yeah, listen, that's for next season.
Adult adoption that's ourlittle teaser for next season.
You guys want to hear about ourviews on adult adoption.
Come on back.
We got them.
Well, we don't have adultadoptees, but we have opinions.
Meg (31:55):
It has been a pleasure to do this season with you.
It has been a pleasure to dothis season with yo
Billy (32:00):
It has been a pleasure to do this season with you as well
.
Meg (32:02):
Very happy we did this, looking forward to coming back
and doing this all over againfor season two.
Billy (32:10):
Same.
Meg (32:10):
nd I hope all of you decide to come back with us and hear a
little more about our storiesand our thoughts and our
opinions.
And we know that the things wesay may not be things that you
necessarily agree with, and it'sokay, because all of us have
had different experiences and wecan all have different ideas,
(32:30):
as long as we all respect eachother.
Billy (32:32):
Absolutely.
See you later guys.
Meg (32:37):
If you liked this episode of the Adopt Twins, I urge you
to pull over if you're driving,or stop what you're doing and
take one minute to take out yourphone and text someone you know
that you think would also likethe Adop Twins.
Send them a text that says hey,I've been listening to this
podcast and I think you'd likeit.
Let me know what you think andsend them a link to the show.
(32:59):
It Let me know what you thinkand send them a link to the show
.
Word of mouth is the best wayto spread the hilarity of the
adopt twins, so stop gatekeepingus and let someone else know
We'll catch y'all soon.
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